Uphill Both Ways

Eric: So Jeremiah, he must have been three or four. we're at the lake and he looks at Emily's like, Mom, I gotta pee. And she's like, Just just pee in the water, you know? And so so he's like, Are you sure? He's like, Yeah, just just pee in the water. So he drops his trousers and just starts peeing And then there are people over there on the like next to like the only other family that was there.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Why not? Mm. And you were like
Eric: saw the whole thing happen and they just lost it. She's like, No, not like that. And for whatever reason, the line is, you know, you gotta be under the water or apparently over the water is inappropriate. Yeah, definitely. I mean, if you're an adult, I guess if you're a kid, it doesn't matter. It does matter. It totally
Elaine: That's really funny. Just go in the water. Yeah. You gotta be under the water. Yeah, you can't. It does matter. It matters. Let's be honest. Speaking of doing things as a kid.
Eric: Yeah. Good segue. Today is our our our I g we're gonna walk down memory lane, maybe. we're gonna be exploring stories, childhood stories, myths, traditions, moments that became part of our personal lore.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. This was this was like felt more illuminating than I was expecting.
Eric: Sound good? Really? Okay, cool.
Elaine: As I was thinking about some of these things. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm ready. Let's do it.
Eric: Well, should we get into it? Let's do it. All right, so I have here our first topic, subject in regard to our childhood lore, Forgotten Kingdoms. where did you spend most of your time as a kid when no adults were around?
Elaine: Yep. I need to know what the field is. The field.
Eric: I feel like Field. So the field. So I grew up in Springfield, Mass, which is a city. but we were lucky enough to live to have like a a patch of woods and a somewhat of a grassy area, which we called the field.
Elaine: I can't even picture that in Springfield.
Eric: Right. Yeah. And so what it was is so we live right on Roosevelt Avenue. and and across that street, Roosevelt Ave is a pretty busy road. it's like State Street or Boston Road, you know. and across that road was Blunt Park. And sometime way back when the field and woodsy area behind us was part of Blunt Park, but
Elaine: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: the the the lore, the myth or whatever, the story goes that that side of the park got burnt down somehow. Like, I don't know when. I d I don't know how you burned down a park, but like somehow there was a fire involved. And so they it just became overgrown an overgrown lot. And it was probably two or three acres. And
Elaine: Maybe by a robot. Yeah. Okay.
Eric: It it definitely felt much bigger than that. I remember driving by it as an adult. I was like, wow, that's a lot smaller than I than I remember. But but we called it the field because the first part, you know, literally just step over our fence and you're there. and the it grew really tall, like weedy grass. and it was like amber colored, you know, for most of the most of the summer and into the fall. And
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: And we called it the field. And then there were other sections of it too. It was, it was, it was kind of cool because it was like it had like every biome, you know, like there was the field, the grasslands, then it had like the woodsy, softwoods, foresty area, and then it had like this little hill with that was totally overgrown with sumac. so it looked very jungly, you know, the the just the style leaves and everything. and then in the way back.
Elaine: cool, yeah. Forest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: it kind of cleared up to be more mature trees, like and not many, maybe four or five. and then there was like a junkyard that was behind another person's house, and we would get into trouble because we would go and steal stuff from the the junkyard. it belonged to the it was just an old lady who lived there and she just threw her junk back there. and then there was like this big bush.
Elaine: Yeah. It was just someone's house. Yeah.
Eric: That was that like it was enormous. Like we tunneled through it. And so we created these like it was elaborate, you know. There's like yeah, kind of. And it we like burrowed a tunnel like in a circle and then it had a couple of offshoots and then it had like a a front door and a back door, you know? And so we would hang out in there a lot and it was just like a really like
Elaine: Rabbit Warren. Yeah.
Eric: we we were like so lucky to have that behind our house. And occasionally we you know, we'd find you know, a a sleeping bag back there like like somebody was, you know. yeah. And then there was I think in Blunt not not yeah. And then yeah. But and then there was a dead body found in Blunt Park across the street in the woods kind of over on the other side.
Elaine: Yeah. Camping out. That sounds more like Springfield. Bummer.
Eric: So we were always afraid we were gonna we're gonna find a dead body, you know.
Elaine: A dead body. I'm so glad this is your Forgotten Kingdom.
Eric: No, it it's it's it's quite like it it it holds a special place in my heart. It w it it felt like
Elaine: Yeah. 'Cause you could like go be independent back there, like yeah.
Eric: Yeah, you know, it it's funny. It's like I barely remember things like, you know, what I got for Christmas when I was ten, you know. But I can still draw you a map of this field. Like every trail, every fort, every tree I climbed, you know. We we built we built forts thirty feet in the air. you know, you'd you'd find it was pretty high. It was it was probably higher than like I would I would like purposefully go as high as I could so I could sway in the
Elaine: That's so cool. Yeah. Whoa. It was probably ten feet, but yeah. Scary. my gosh.
Eric: Swinging the priest. but then we me Graham got real ambitious and we dug a four foot hole and put stuff over it. So we made like this underground fort. No, it was it's we would go there and hide. and so, you know, over the course of, you know, probably ten years, we had forts everywhere and a whole trail system. We collected all the the old bottles and we'd stack up.
Elaine: A trap? Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah.
Eric: You know, there were old hurdles from the park, like like track hurdles. And and I propped up I have a photo of it somewhere. My mom's got it in one of her photo albums. I I propped up two five gallon buckets on the uprights of the hurdle, 'cause the the the hurdle itself was gone, but the the metal part was still intact. And so I propped those up and
Elaine: Yeah. Track. Yeah. Yeah. Bar was gone. Yeah.
Eric: had one by my feet and I just played them like drums like all day. And so we were very like resourceful, very like imaginative and like it was just like, you know, it was just a place where, you know, we had room to like grow and and you know, and it like belonged to us, like entirely to me and my siblings and our friends. but we really kind of ruled it because our house was like right on the right on the property line.
Elaine: Wow. Yeah. Explore and yeah. Yeah. You guys were the abutters. Yeah.
Eric: And we were kind of like we were kind of like the gatekeepers to it all. So if we invited you in, it was like it was like our our land, you know. But yeah, it was like no adults, no schedule, no audience, you know, it was just us and our imagination and you know, very formative. And I feel I feel happy for my kids that they have something similar because they run out what they call the hill. I had a field, they have a hill. And so it's the woods between the golf course and our house. And they're they they have all kinds of forts over there too. And there's
Elaine: Yep. Yeah. At the like end of your road.
Eric: no, it's it's behind well, end of the short dead end road. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, yeah. yeah, so yeah. I you know, every kid deserves a a space like that, you know.
Elaine: Yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah. The corner road, yeah. Well, that's so I moved a lot. as a kid. I moved, you know, twelve times before college. So when I was thinking about like where did I spend most of my time, at first I was like, I guess like my bedroom because that was the consistent safe place. But then I really felt like my grandparents' houses because we my grandpar my
Eric: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elaine: Dad's parents lived on Cape Cod, that's where my dad grew up. And my mom's parents lived in on the South Shore of Massachusetts in a town called Hingham. And wherever we were, we were in Ohio or Atlanta or, you know, wherever, we would return back to those places a lot. Like not just for the holidays, but I also like when my parents would travel. Sometimes if we were living like in Connecticut, where if they would drop me at my grandparents' house for like
Eric: Yeah.
Elaine: Both my parents had to travel for like a week. And so that was the most consistent place, both of those places. And my mom's mom, my grandma, who I was most close with, had they had a double lot, like carved up in the 50s, and the front part was like house and like front door yard, and then the back was like lawn, like deck. lawn and then they had like we'll just call it like an eighth of an acre of like a tall pine stand. And right it was like right in the neighbor's backyard, but it felt like, you know, that sense that things were bigger than they were. So we would be like in my cousins and I would be like in the woods. It was like yeah, it was like 15 pines. Not big.
Eric: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uhhuh. Like a little grove or like yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Elaine: but I I often sought out places outside, like at my grand my my Nana and Bubba's house on Cape Cod. They also had a double lot, but it was like side by side. So there was like their house lot and then there was a field next door. And my grandfather would give us my cousin and I, the keys to the like John Deere lawn tractor. And he just had like mowed these little paths and he would just like have us drive it not on mow, just like
Eric: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Elaine: roll rolling around. it was super fun. And but it was like places outside and it was places where you I felt like I could exercise my own independence where I was like like I'm making my own choices. Whereas like inside felt like parent my parents' domain where it was like their rules, their way of doing it. But when you were outside you were like I'm making my own choices. so yeah.
Eric: Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. I would yeah. I was thinking about that because like I remember like thinking about, you know, these topics today. the things my dad would say, I would be totally baffled. But like looking back now, it's like, he's being so reasonable. So like
Elaine: Hm. Yeah yeah. Like what?
Eric: So like we you know, once we got older, like eleven, ten, eleven, twelve, me and Graham really start exploring the neighborhoods. Like we would go blocks away from from home, w without even asking. We just kind of wander off on our bikes together.
Elaine: Yeah. I can't Eric, I cannot imagine this in Springfield. Like I like my only r the way I knew Springfield sketch I played soccer a lot at Springfield College and on right on King Street and like I would there would just be like straight up gun shots.
Eric: Springfield is sketched. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was the worst. That was the worst. Yeah. No, King Street was like known for being the bad part of town. like my mom would even avoid King Street when she would go to pick up my dad from work, you know, as she would go she would go around. Yeah. No, but we we would we would just go off and we came to this little like little gully.
Elaine: Yeah. So I like can't imagine you guys just like Y I get it. Yeah.
Eric: And we found a frame to a a motorcycle, like a like a dirt bike. We're like, you know, and we were super into we are super into fixing up our bikes. Like Graham like totally rebuilt this Huffy and he painted it blue and he ended up buying these stickers, these mongoose stickers, so it would look like a mongoose bike. And he had everybody convinced.
Elaine: Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll go see bike.
Eric: But we were like obsessed with like like rearranging bike parts, you know. So like it was just a fun way to like trick your bike out, you know. but it was all it was all with with our bikes, you know, like our friends' bikes and we just mix and match. but we found this dirt bike frame and and we hauled it home. Like it was heavy. I I don't even remember. We might have like brought a wagon down.
Elaine: That's cool. Yeah. On your bikes.
Eric: or something. We're like, stay here, I'll be right back. And you know, half an hour later, you come get you come get a a a wagon or I don't know, I don't know how we did it, but we lugged it back to our house and we already have we already have like like the whole neighborhood is in our front yard. Like I'm talking I I'm not even exaggerating. We're there were probably 10 kids. Ten 10 mostly boys just
Elaine: You're like s like dragging a radio flyer. Yeah. A gold get yeah. That's so funny. my
Eric: Tearing their bikes apart and putting them back together. And then we come along showing up with this giant motorcycle frame. And everybody's like, We're gonna build a motorcycle, you know, and we're like pumped. And I am like convinced I'm gonna have a motorcycle in a matter of days. Yeah. And then my dad comes home and he's like, What is that? I'm like, it's a motorcycle. We're you know.
Elaine: Swapping, so yeah. And you're like Ha ha Yeah. You're like, I've made it.
Eric: We're gonna we're gonna we're building a minibike. He's like, No, you're not. He's he's like, he's like, you can do bikes, but you're not gonna do that. And I'm thinking, how could you like what? That doesn't make any sense. It's like we found a motorcycle frame, dad. Like and so he made us he made us haul it in back into the field, throw it back in the field somewhere, because he didn't want junk in his yard, which is totally reasonable.
Elaine: Yeah. You're like B we struck gold. Fair. Very
Eric: And no,
Elaine: fair.
Eric: we're not gonna make our motorcycle. That's very different from a bicycle. so we just do stuff like that and and we were kind of like the destination house, because we had like the basketball hoop that could roll up a alongside the the road. And so we would have basketball games and then we we were big into like street hockey. There's like this used hockey equipment store that was across from the original friendlies.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. In Wilburham. Yeah.
Eric: Fun fact. Friendlies. Yeah. Yep. or one of the originals. It wasn't quite Wilbram. We were still in, you know, we were it was probably a mile or two away. Yeah. but we'd go there, we'd buy super cheap, crappy used hockey equipment to play street hockey. And and we'd have the whole neighborhood over. We'd be on rollerblades. and then
Elaine: yeah. Well it's right near there. Yeah.
Eric: And yeah, so that was kind of like the norm for us. We had
Elaine: I didn't I did not grow up like that. Like you had like builds and friends 'cause you had siblings and like you were the destination. I was just like always the new kid.
Eric: It was very Yeah.
Elaine: I we lived in a new place.
Eric: You're like the smalls to Sandlot.
Elaine: Yes. Yeah. It was just kind of like it the best times I had communally as a kid was summer camp because it was something that repeated year after year. I knew those kids. I got to be myself. Like, but it wasn't at home. It wasn't I my poor parents, like they sent me off to the summer camp thinking it would be good for me. And it was, but I would come home and I would be bereft.
Eric: Right, yeah. Right. Yep.
Elaine: I was like, you know, I would come home and be like, I miss my friends. Like, you don't get it. And they were like, like I wouldn't come out of my room for like two days. Yes. So yeah, it just it's interesting to hear. Like I was always I would go over to those people's houses, but we we weren't that house.
Eric: Yeah. Yeah. What are the cons of being the only child? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. The kids never came in the house. except for maybe the the close, you know, the close ones that played with us every day. it was always an outside thing. and we had a we had a really good friend who we just played with every day, all day, especially during the summer.
Elaine: Yeah. But you were just like the meeting place. Yeah.
Eric: but we were homeschooled, so we were always waiting for him to come home from school. His name was Jason, and he was like a real Jason's basement. He was a real real computer nerd. and so he had this finished basement that was kind of like for their house, it like was a collection of everything. His dad was Greek, I think. his last name was Jordanitis. So his dad was Greek.
Elaine: Jason's basement. sweet.
Eric: And he told us that his dad was a merchant. And we're like, what does that mean? But he had like this he had this corner in the basement that was his office. It's all like open floor, open floor plan, you know, but he kind of sectioned this corner off. And you saw that he had like these like like jewelry balances and like jewels out on
Elaine: Or like in what way? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eric: the table, you know, and he had like this professional like inspect like the little spectacle thing and all of these other things. He had a well, well then they had the shed out back and it was full of just random tchotchkis. And we're like, what the heck is a merchant? And he would he would come home at weird times of day. Sometimes he was home, sometimes he wasn't. He he drove a Cadillac
Elaine: Yeah, like yeah, yeah, yeah. Like was he running a pawn shop? Interesting. A merchant.
Eric: which was a nice car for our neighborhood. So I don't know if he was into like something sketchy, like it seemed like mafia vibes is is kind of what me and Graham kind of chalked it up to. He was always nice to us. and then his mom was who was a a white woman, a Jehovah's Witness, Jehovah's Witness. So a very odd couple. but we would spend every day, we would spend every day in the basement.
Elaine: Yeah. Funny. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Maybe they were each other's beards.
Eric: just playing computer games. And when I say playing computer computer games, so all kinds. So we play like the the original Doom or Duke Nukem. So like like the original first person shooters. we played a game a lot of LucasArt computer games. This was when Star Wars
Elaine: What com what computer games? Yeah. Yeah. yeah, sure. Yeah.
Eric: their their studio was getting into video games. So we played a lot like Dark Forces and Day of the Tentacle and Indiana Jones and those kinds of games.
Elaine: My gosh, I was out here playing like math blasters and like Mavis Beacons typing tutorial. Yeah. We were playing educational games. There was Yeah. Did you did you ever play? Mac had my god, I can't believe I'm blanking on this name. I would go over to my friend Lizzie's house, and her brother was super into
Eric: Yeah, that that's what we played at our house. We played all the violent, dirty games at Jason's house. Yeah. That's what we were doing at our house. And we had a Mac, so Mac didn't have good games.
Elaine: Some sort of built like world-building game that was on a Mac. my gosh, I was just gonna say Mist. I didn't get the game. I would always log in and play it. And I was like, what is the point? Like, what do I do? I didn't and for a while I thought Mist was Zelda. So I was telling people I was playing Zelda and I was just wandering around in Mist, and people were like,
Eric: We play Mist. Did you ever play Mist? Yeah. What do I do? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Elaine: You're not playing Zelda. And was like, Yeah, I am. Hmm. Actually, yeah, I'm pretty sure I know what Zelda is.
Eric: Actually I know what Zelda is. We would play we would play Zelda on Nintendo. He had a Nintendo down there too, but one day he got
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. That's how people knew I wasn't playing Zelda because I was like, I d I'm playing it on my gateway.
Eric: Right. Yeah. Yeah. We came over one day, we're like, Hey, you want to play Zelda? He's like, my Nintendo's broken. We're What? What happened? He's like, I got mad and I chucked it across the room. And so we never he he broke his Nintendo. Yeah. Yeah. But he would fix computers and he was like making money at th age 13, like fixing people's computers for them. And which is impressive at that point.
Elaine: No. Bummer. If I were his parents, I'd be like, you don't get another Nintendo. so He was a whiz kid.
Eric: At that time because
Elaine: It yes and no. It was like it was happening so fast that if you had like the tiniest bit of in, you were able to like make a huge impact.
Eric: Well, how did a thirteen year old get an in to fixing a PC?
Elaine: There were a lot of kids that were just like because they were so no, but they were so much more like analog style. It's like you connect red to red and like you know, there were like breadboards that just like I don't know, kids just new. I don't know. Anyway, so the theme I guess I'm picking up on is that for the places that mattered to us as kids, it it just does seem like places where you could just kind of like be yourself.
Eric: There wasn't there wasn't YouTube to tell you how to do stuff. Yeah. No, yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. He was cool.
Elaine: And be like flex into that independence. Yeah.
Eric: Independence, I think, is is yeah. Independence and like letting your imagination do whatever the heck it wants, you know. yeah, for sure.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. what's the thing? Like what's the thing that when you think of like like Linus and Is Blanky?
Eric: Right. I probably had a couple of but I think the most I still have it actually. it was a pocket knife. And I don't know where it came from. I just found it in the closet one day. I think my dad found it, like maybe at a park or something. But it was a buck knife. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Found found the murder weapon. Yeah.
Elaine: Cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah, we know where that dead body came from.
Eric: No, it was just sitting in the closet and I was like, what's this? And you know, it's in the it was in this nice little leather case and I was like, it's just a classic buck knife. it's one of the it's one of the originals. Like they still make it. It's like, you know, if you think buck knife, this is what it is. No, that's a different buck knife. But this is a folding one, it's like got two like brass ends, and like a like a rosewood center.
Elaine: Scream knife? okay, okay, okay. yeah. Cool. that's nice.
Eric: but it was big, it was it was like four inches, a four-inch blade or so. but a folding knife had a really stiff lock that I had a hard time working, so it was hard for me to close sometimes. but I asked him if I could have it and he said sure. which was astounding to me because it's like knives are bad, you know, like but you know I don't know. I mean, I still
Elaine: Yes. Yeah. We're like, then
Eric: Like I don't collect knives, but like I'm kind of obsessed with them. Like they're cool. And there's just something, you know, there's just I don't know. It may sound weird, but it feels like it feels masculine. It feels this one in particular felt kind of like like Americana, you know, like
Elaine: You like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: But I don't know, for a kid it it felt like for one, it was it felt good that my dad trusted me, you know. I felt like, I'm big now, you know, like I I'm responsible enough to to have this knife. but also it felt like I was Indiana Jones, you know. He had the whip, I have the knife. Right. No. We yes, everybody wants the fedora, everybody wants the whip.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. which everyone wants to be. Yeah. Everyone famously import. Right. That's right. Yeah.
Eric: Yeah. Thank goodness I didn't I didn't become a Fedora person. Yeah. no I wouldn't. But but yeah, it just you know, it's it was like it it was like I, you know, it felt like it it it meant that I could fix something, you know, I I could cut a rope, I could carve a stick, I could build a fort, I you know, it like opened up possibilities for me. I could I could defend myself if I needed to.
Elaine: Go lean into that. Yeah, that would have we wouldn't be friends. We just wouldn't be. Kill a kill a man. Right. I could carve up a buck in Springfield.
Eric: Yeah, so it was like it was like a symbol of growing up, I guess, and it but also it kind of satisfied the that little adventurer urge in me, you know. so that was mine. I did end up jabbing it into a tree out in the field, and then I tried to pull it out and broke the tip. Yeah.
Elaine: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Sword and stone. no
Eric: I broke the tip. I broke about three eighths off the off the top. I was devastated. I was so I cried. I came, I came back to the house. My dad wasn't home, but when he when he came in, I was like, Dad, I broke the knife. And I thought he was gonna be so disappointed in me. But he was like, well, that's okay. I mean, you know, he's like, Well, you know, he asked how I did it. He's like, Well, don't do that anymore. I was like, okay, you know.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. Don't do that.
Eric: And later on, because I had kept it, it always had this broken flat top. an old Vermonter, his name was Tad, he he showed me how to fix it. And so, yeah, he was he was part of the church. He died, he he died, he was like on hospice for a while. So a lot of the young men of the a lot of the men, but young men included, would go in and spend the night with him, take shifts.
Elaine: So it's just a little shorter now?
Eric: because he's he was like on his way out. and on one of those nights, it was really cool because he was just like this old Vermonter guy. so you'd hear his his lore and all the things. He was like part Indian, so he had all these stories about the reservation and but he he he said we'll bring it next time you come and he just showed me how to file it down and we got a nice point on it again. And then and then he showed me how to to put an edge back on it. And it's
Elaine: Yeah.
Eric: It's now a it's it's not. It's it's like a short blade now on a on a large handle, so it looks a little awkward, but but it still exists and it's still functioning, so yeah. How about you? Did you have any
Elaine: Yeah. That's nice. That's very nice. I feel like such a baby saying this, but like I was a kid who so I had two blankies. I had a blankie named Baby Burp because it cut burp like a belch because my mom, I guess, at some point gave me this like cloth diaper.
Eric: Mm-hmm. Baby Burb. Burp.
Elaine: that they must have been using as like and they had like yeah exactly it was a burping blanket that they were using for that but I think like I like grabbed onto it and she was like all right that's her blanket now and I I think at some point I must have been like this is my blanky and she was like you know that's a that's a baby's burping blanket and I was like baby burp so I I had it it was tied into knots it was shredded and then my mom gave me this like silk
Eric: Was like a burping blanket or like a okay. Right, yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.
Elaine: bag for baby birth so it would like stay like have integrity so and then I would take it out and I would like my god I mean I I still had it when I got married in 2018 you know like I it yeah totally I didn't still sleep with it but it was like always in my door drawer and then another blankie I had was a blankie called puffer blankie and my aunt
Eric: How long did you have it? Yeah, yeah, okay. You're one of those. Mm-hmm. Right.
Elaine: my mom's sister, I guess, like made this kind of like quilted w batting filled blankie that had like little teddy bears holding balloons like floating on one side and then just light blue pinstripes on the other. My parents brought me home in that blanket. And so Puffer Blanky was bigger. but I had those two blankies, yeah, puffer blanket and baby burp. I had them
Eric: Mm-hmm.
Elaine: I brought them I brought them to camp, I brought them to boarding school. Like I brought them No.
Eric: Do ever get picked on for having like what did you have did you have like an unhealthy attachment to them or were they just like something you Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elaine: No, they were just like a nighttime comfort thing. I used to suck my thumb. I sucked my thumb till I was like in I was like nine or ten.
Eric: Yeah, you and Evelyn both. My mom my mom's way of getting us to quit sucking our thumb was if we would quit for a week, she'd give us well, she gave me five dollars. And with that I was able to buy w I was able to buy this toy that I wanted. It was like this little Playmobile guy on a motorcycle. I was seven, I think. I continued to suck my thumb secretly after that, but not for very much longer.
Elaine: Yeah, we were big thumbsuckers. That wouldn't have done it for me. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: So it was like it did help me kind of wean off. Evelyn took the money and kept sucking her thumb for years.
Elaine: Hell yeah. I j yeah, and I like had like a sore on my yeah, like on my phone from my Yep. It was yeah, yeah. So I didn't get made fun of because I think I had like the wherewithal to not like bring it to like sleepovers, you know, but but yeah, they were a big im I was trying to think of something really cool, like my roller blades or something, but it was like it was my blankies for sure.
Eric: Yeah, she did too. She'd have this little callus. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, when it comes Do you still have it?
Elaine: I think I have it in I think it's still in my house in Vermont in my like storage. Like I think it's like in that little silk bag tucked away somewhere. I like I would never I don't know what I would do with it, but it feels like like throwing away Woody from Toy Story. Yeah, you're just like, I can't just like discard you. Like yeah.
Eric: Where okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Almost history now, you know? Like yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Elaine: What what's the thing? it doesn't have to be your family, but maybe your family. Like what did everyone know? What was the story everyone knows about about Eric?
Eric: I don't know that I had one of those really. I was just a regular kid.
Elaine: Well, was there something that you did once that everyone's like, my god
Eric: Not that I can remember.
Elaine: Because I was always the new kid. there was always a lot of like build up before I would go to a new school. And so I'm really we we moved from Connecticut to Toledo, Ohio. And I was like a stranger in a strange land. I did not know what these Midwestern nice people were doing. Like we had been largely in New England up until then. And
Eric: Yeah. yeah.
Elaine: So I got dropped into third grade at Fort Meg's Elementary School. And they had bunnies in the classroom. And this school did not, we didn't line up by names. We all were assigned numbers. So I was number 14 because that was my name, like my alphabetical.
Eric: Okay, yeah, yeah.
Elaine: Position in in the whatever. And so throughout the year you had turns taking care of the bunnies. And so you you'd have to take them home or whatever. So I w it like whatever the thing was, we like my mom was like, We're not bringing this bunny home, but she's like, I will bring you to school, you know, like two or three times throughout the weekend, and you'll take care of the bunny.
Eric: Right. no. Okay. Yep.
Elaine: I mean they must I I don't know how like I don't know why the building wasn't locked. Like, I don't know, whatever. So we're doing this. I on the last bunny care visit, I must have not been as careful as I thought. My mom didn't even come into the room. I knocked the class cactus over into the bunny cage.
Eric: no.
Elaine: And it killed the bunny. And this must have been like it was a big cactus and it was a little bunny. And
Eric: Big cactus.
Elaine: I didn't know. I don't I don't know because because so Monday morning we come in and my teacher had to be like, bouquet class. So they're like, you know, this bunny died and like we're so sad and and some of the kids were like, well, thank
Eric: Yes, by like a thousand needles or like the weight of it. That's horrifying. So you're the girl who who killed the rat? no.
Elaine: Who was taking who's taking care of the bunny? And someone went over the chore chart and was like, it was Elaine. And I was like, and the whole class in my mind, I felt like they were all like totally they were like, Elaine. Like, so then I went home and I told my mom this story, and I was like, it was awful. And they all were like, and she was like, I'm sorry that happened. So, like, but now my entire family does that, like.
Eric: That's a failure on the teacher's part. little Elaine. So sad.
Elaine: when something stupid happens. So like, Elaine. it was like really it was like it was really upsetting for a while. so yeah, that one sticks with me.
Eric: Susan Susan what's an adventure you had as a kid?
Elaine: Mm. When we moved to central Massachusetts, we had like some acreage. Like we had like a little we had an or apple orchard that we didn't really like use, but it was an orchard. so I I was a young queer that like was like I I gotta like fourteen, thirteen, fourteen, I I snuck out of my house through the orchard and walked two miles alone.
Eric: How old? Okay. Uh-huh.
Elaine: at like eleven at night to go meet yeah, to go meet this girl so we could smooch in another orchard. There were apple orchards everywhere. I know. And it was like I Yeah, it w I was in Bolton. Yeah, Bolton Mastow, a lot l yeah, but you know, famously Johnny Appleseed is from Lemonster, which like apparently everyone else claims to.
Eric: Whoa. Lots of portraits. There are a lot of orchards. Apple picking was a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then it turns into cranberries at some point, but yeah. Anyway.
Elaine: It does. so I I didn't care so much that I was like going to make out with this girl. I cared that I was like walking on a road at night and there was no we live pretty like rurally there was nobody on the road no cars passed me I remember I didn't realize it but it was probably like a full moon so I was like it's like light out here it I I left at my house it was probably like 10 30. so like 10 30 and I got home at like two and
Eric: Okay. Yeah.
Elaine: And yeah, and I was like the thrill of like, you know, the like Oceans Eleven style is like the door was unlocked, even though my parents locked the door, like I snuck down and all stuff. It was like I that was a super dangerous. And B, I just felt like I don't know, when you're young, you're looking, you don't want to feel so like penned in. And that was a very like
Eric: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right.
Elaine: That was quite an adventure. Yeah.
Eric: I was a rule follower. I never snuck out. I I was I was scared to make a mistake because of our church. But like yeah. My my brother was was more of the the rule breaker. which looking back is I could kinda admire him for. but yes, sneaking out sneaking out never even occurred to me.
Elaine: Bad. He was just like, F it. Yeah. It was the only time I did it. I like it was twice and it was all in one summer. And I just had this like, ugh really wild. What about you? What what's an adventure?
Eric: Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. I had a really good friend. her name was Bridget. She was like a great she's like a a really great person, great friend. and it was like we clicked, like I'd known her for most of my life. but it wasn't until we were like ten or eleven to where I just went over randomly with my mom to her house. and we just realized
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: We really liked each other, like platonically. Yeah. And and that was that was it. Like we were buds. And so they had they lived I think they lived in Indian Orchard,
Elaine: You're like, we vibe. Mm.
Eric: they had lots of woods behind their house. And so we would just have all kinds of adventures out there. Like during the spring, the woods would flood, you know, so like the forest floor was like like like a a foot or two of water. So we'd break the canoe out and literally just row through the woods, you know. It felt like a Louisi Louisiana bayou, you know, like like tree trunks.
Elaine: Yeah. Mm. Wow.
Eric: underwater and you're just floating through and it was beautiful. It'd be all misty and still kind of snowy because everything's still melting. but we had like this spot, these two birch trees next to this creek. We called the Orange Creek because it'd grow like this weird orange grossness at the bottom of it. And if you stepped in it you'd get stuck. That's how like mucky it was. and so we'd always we'd always go out into the woods and we'd end up leaning against our
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: you know, our our trees. but we got in our head one day. they were kind of an outdoorsy family. So they had like this bin full of wellies, like the boots, the rubber boots. So we we grabbed a pair of wellies and they're all both too big. They're like men's wellies. So, you know, like our feet fill half of right? And so we're like kind of clowning through the woods. We get to the creek and we we follow the creek all the way down further than we've ever gone before.
Elaine: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: And it leads us to this this big stormpipe, like the opening, just this concrete drain, essentially. And that's what it was. It was it was all the runoff, you know. Exactly, exactly. Except it was probably 500 yards or more, and and it took a bend. And so we got it in our heads, let's go in it. And so and we heard that.
Elaine: Yeah. Yep. Like a culvert. Yeah. Hmm. Scary.
Eric: We heard that her brother had gone in it before. and so we're like, well, eleven, maybe ten or eleven. her brother had gone her brother was kind of like iconic, like like we idolized him because he he was the real adventurer. Like he would do all kinds of cool stuff. and so we're like, okay, well, he did it. Well, why don't we try? We're like, okay.
Elaine: How old were you? Yeah.
Eric: And it's it's sketch, like this, you know, like the
Elaine: Yeah
Eric: inside the inside ten feet are all like spray painted graffiti, you know. I'm seeing swastikas on one side and gang symbols on the other, and and so we we were kind of hesitant because it was like, ugh, you know. but we decided that we'd send Duke, her dog, or her brother's dog, who followed us everywhere. He was this black lab and he was just this rugged dog.
Elaine: Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. He was like your protector.
Eric: Yeah. So we sent him in first, you know, to to like lead the way. And and we started walking through and then it it started to take the bend. And then it was lights out after that. It was like pitch black. Like literally couldn't see my hand in front of my face. That's how black it was. So we decided to hold hands. And I remember thinking like, hold hands, that's something, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend does. But again, it was like
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah, dark, dark, dark, dark. Ugh. Ugh. Yeah. Like boyfriend girlfriend do.
Eric: We were just buds. So it felt it felt like totally appropriate and like like not romantic. I remember being a little bit surprised by that. And I'm not sure I haven't I haven't seen her in decades. I I I kinda wonder like, did you ever have a crush on me? Because I know I never did on you and it was just it felt like really normal. Anyway, we held hands and we were holding so tight because it was like so scary. We're just like
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so scary. Yeah.
Eric: Inching forward. We can still hear Duke ahead of us kind of splashing in the little bit of water that's on the bottom. Then it starts to get like rubble, like like some build up, and it got so full that it it filled like half the culvert up. And this culvert must have been five feet in diameter. so we could stand up in it, but once the rubble started filled, we had to climb up over this like blockage. I
Elaine: yeah. scary.
Eric: And so there are also small points of light that would show up every now and again, which were the the drains on the streets. And so we could actually hear kids playing. And so every now and again we'd get this tiny bit of light. but it felt like an eternity before, you know, you know, eventually we saw like this pinprick of of light, you know, that eventually grew bigger and bigger until we reached the end and and and we made it. And we stepped out.
Elaine: Yeah. my gosh, that's funny. Yeah. Well.
Eric: Only to discover that this tunnel emptied out the side of a cliff. And it wasn't like you know, it was probably eight feet down to the to the stream. but it was it was there's no way to like we couldn't have jumped down. We would have hurt ourselves. Yeah, there's no safe way down. So after all that, we had to go back. So like
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah, you'd have to like slide down. Yeah. You have to go back? My gosh.
Eric: We feel like we come out of the other side, we like feel like we conquer this darkness, right? And we're like proving our courage, you know, and then we're like, shit. Now we had to go back through. And somehow that just felt like part of the adventure too, you know? Like like I look back and, you know
Elaine: Yeah. Gotta go back in. Yeah.
Eric: It's like I that's what I miss is like the adventure, right? Like this version of life where like every Saturday, you know, w held like this possibility of something you've never seen before. And it was just outside your house. And, you know, the creek became our map, you know, the tunnel became our like our quest and we like conquered this thing. And and that's the kind of stuff that like I get nostalgic over.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: So that was that was my my adventure.
Elaine: Still fun. Wow, I love it. how are we doing on time? Should we frivia?
Eric: Frivia. The friendship trivia game.
Elaine: Mm-hmm.
Eric: Brought to you by Grim So this Frivia goes over things we believed as children. I think common themes that maybe a lot of people our age might have believed when they were kids. I'm curious if you believed any of these. did you believe that gum stays in your stomach for seven years? Did you ever hear that one? Yeah.
Elaine: Adventure. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yep. I did.
Eric: I'm still not quite sure if that's true or not. That's how firmly I believed it. okay. It goes through. Okay. I've never seen gum in my poop. But maybe I'm not looking hard enough. quicksand is a major life threat. Yeah.
Elaine: I just I just swallowed gum the other day and I saw it in the toilet. Like it just your stomach can digest a penny, you know. Yeah. Well, you gotta look harder. Yeah. Bigger deal than you think it is. Yeah. You just it was like always on the Power Rangers. Like it was it just was like Yeah. Yes, for sure. Yep.
Eric: Yeah. Princess Bride. Yeah. yeah, it was very something you'd be very concerned of when when you went to the beach, where there was sand. how about the car dome light? If that's on while driving, it's illegal. Yeah. Turn the light off or you get pulled over.
Elaine: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, never turn it on. If you turn it on, your dad's gonna die. It's gonna he's gonna crash the car, he's gonna die. And I still as an adult, like, if someone turns on the car light, I'm like and then I'm like, it's not that bad. Like it's not really not that bad.
Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As a dad now, I I I've learned that it is annoying. it can cause a a an annoying glare. but but realizing that that's what my dad was reacting to, it wasn't because it was illegal. It was because the kids were being obnoxious. Similarly similarly, this is a common one too, is
Elaine: Yeah. Sure. But it's like it's not that big of a deal. Right.
Eric: you need to be quiet so you don't scare the fish.
Elaine: I never fished so I never heard that, but I I believe it. That's probably just that person just being like, Shut up. Yeah. You're talking too much. Yeah.
Eric: Yeah. I think that's a that's a common one. Can you shut the hell up? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and then lastly, sitting too close to the T V can ruin your eyes.
Elaine: Yeah, we I I heard that from my aunt a lot because we would be like in fr like in front of the TV watching Batman. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I I I I they were just like
Eric: Yeah. Well with those tube TVs, I feel like it was worse than than sitting real close to a And they're always they're always like furniture, so they're on the floor, like the old TVs. So you could like literally sit right up to it. Yeah.
Elaine: Right. Yeah, you had to get Yeah. Get right Yeah. We heard it, it wasn't like enforced 'cause we like we're gonna be on the couch, you know, like so Yeah.
Eric: Right. Yeah. Are there any others?
Elaine: Q-tips, my mom was like, don't use them, don't use them, don't use them, don't use them. But I'm just here to say that like year in and year out, my primary care provider is like you have really clean ears and I Q-tip all the time. I q-tip sometimes, Eric. Twice a day. I love Q-tipping. It feels good. Yeah, I'm like
Eric: IQ tip it every day. I mean Yeah. It's like a drug. There's that mad T V sketch. Have you seen that?
Elaine: Yes. I love it. I love Q and I don't go too far. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it feels so good. And my ears are clean. And it's just part of my grooming routine. So everyone was like, Don't put chips in too far. And was like, I didn't. Okay. I know they're like, it's for cleaning keyboards.
Eric: Johnny, I caught Johnny using q-tips. No! Like it's a drug or something. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Even Q tip says don't put in your ears. It's like, why are we making these things?
Elaine: Why are we making these? It's like c clean grout with them and keyboard cleaning. It's for your ear. It's just don't jab it into it's up it, you know, it's not it's like duh. So not that yeah. So I love that. I love that. Yeah. Any irrational fears for you?
Eric: If not for ears. Yeah, no. Mm mm. It's for your ear. Right. Yeah. Use some common sense. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. I'm a I'm a Q tip user as well. Yeah. irrational fears. we're done.
Elaine: Or any ridiculous thing. Sorry, you believed as a kid. Sorry, I jumped to fierce.
Eric: I mean scaring the fish is one. I mean angels and demons. I was terrified. I was gonna see a demon. Just Christian kid things. There are some kids who are terrified of being raptured. And I have friends I have friends who have stories where like they come home and nobody's there. They're like, Mom, Dad and they thought they were raptured and they were left behind. Yeah. No, that's a very real thing.
Elaine: right. Right. Right. And that wasn't your fault, you know? Yeah. my god. Well, they're like, Did it happen? That's awful. Did you ever o my this is such an aside, but there was this dude making a crap ton of money out of Utah for selling pet rapture insurance?
Eric: Pet rapture insurance and selling land in heaven. So when you get to he the heaven you'll have property. Yeah. Yeah. Dead serious. People are buying into this.
Elaine: Like you have pre you have the prima lot. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like people are like, Well, if I go ra if I get raptured, like who's gonna take care of my dog? And this guy's like, I'm a sinner. I got you. Ain't no thing. I'm definitely staying here. Yeah.
Eric: Yeah. Yep. I will. It's like the Sin Eater, you know, the Cine Eater of you know, seventeen hundreds or whenever that was. Yep. Take one for the team while making bank.
Elaine: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Mm. Yeah, it's the American way.
Eric: Okay. All right. So final question. If you could spend one ordinary afternoon in your childhood again, which one would you choose?
Elaine: That's good.
Eric: Just an ordinary Tuesday.
Elaine: I feel like the thing about childhood is like your relationship to time is so different. And it just feels like it's just like stretched out. So you know, so like I I guess I would just like read. I would be I I just felt like I had so much time to just get lost in a book. And then I like to go out to like when we lived in central Mass, I would go out to this
Eric: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Elaine: rock behind our little barn behind the orchard and just like talk out loud I guess to myself and then yeah like come back and like make a snack and like just just kind of like putz around.
Eric: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I would do that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I agree. I like my like my storm drain story. I think I'd like to live another like maybe not adventure, but like experience that sense of mystery again, like like discovering something so ordinary but seems so special to me. Yeah. But also like there would be days to where I would just spend
Elaine: You're like Yeah.
Eric: you know, hours out in the field just playing by myself. You know, I got really good at making bow and arrows out of out of the sumac trees 'cause they're real flexible and easy to cut down. And I'd decorate with feathers and, you know, I'd I'd I'd make a quiver of arrows and I even had like this little stuffed Snoopy that I put on a string and I would drag around like he was my hunting dog. so I was very like
Elaine: Yeah. wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cute.
Eric: Living living like in an imaginary world, you know, was like kind of the magic of that all. I would love to like
Elaine: Yeah. If it feels like like Stand by Me and Now and Then, like those movies where it's just like you get this like summer and it like everything feels possible and it just like yeah. You know.
Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, you know. And also like I spent a lot of time drawing. Like I could I would sit down at the table for hours and my mom would be there. And so she would be sewing or making something. She would she had a little craft business to where she'd make these custom shirts for families. go to th go to different festivals throughout the year. and
Elaine: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. Mm.
Eric: I would just sit down and draw right next to her and she would have on her like she'd have on her worship music. And it was just this this like a whole vibe of just like the safest place I could be. And you know, that felt that feels magical too. Yeah.
Elaine: Mm. Uh-huh. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. You know, time marches on. I know. should we splash down?
Eric: Nostalgia, man. Think it's time to splash down.
Elaine: I just wanna hear about what had American Summer.
Eric: So I watched Wet Hot American Summer with Emily. she laughed harder than I did. but we loved it. We thought it was great. you you you said like people who have gone to summer camp are really the ones who get it. And I think her summer camps, though ultra Christian, were close enough to the same kind of themes. the one in particular for me that really hit.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Similar. Yeah.
Eric: was when they go into town. And they they just they just they go they they they go crazy. Yeah. And they they like shoot up and they all pass out. And then and then it's like, it's time to go back and they go back and they're like, how was town? It's like, you know, for an hour it's just really great to get away, you know and like what you fit all that and Yeah. But it's like yeah, you go into town and you're you know
Elaine: And they do everything. They go nuts. For like an hour. Yep. Yep. And they're like Yeah. Yeah, it's it's great to go into town even just for an hour.
Eric: y you you just take advantage of everything you possibly can 'cause it's the wilderness when you go back. Yeah. Yeah. You're taking naps, you're you're eating and drinking and yeah.
Elaine: Go nuts. Yep. Yep. Yeah, there's nothing doing. That's awesome. Yep. Yeah, I'm really glad that that resonated with you. Yeah, it's a great it's so weird I'm glad you liked it. Well, I went deep into chit. So funny. I yes, I can't stop. I was just like eating it like cheeses.
Eric: so we enjoyed it. It was it was great. excellent. He's funny, right? Are you caught up? Yeah. That's what I said. I felt so stupid trying to explain the skits because it's like you're explaining the joke, right? But like he's hilarious. He's taken the internet by storm.
Elaine: So funny. his girlfriend, the vice grip what's her name? The like WWE wrestler. Just really funny. And yes, like some of the classics, like the the the is there a black person here? That it's there's an
Eric: Is she a WWE wrestler or yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like just when you think you figured him out, he does something new. Just like, wait, what shit? Yeah. No. So good.
Elaine: Really, really, really funny. Yeah. Really funny. And they like, he's a great character actor and the guy behind the camera does a really good job. Like they do great editing. Like it's it's really, really, really, really funny. it's the the truth or dare one where he's like, dare, and they pan back to him and he's just naked. And they were like, Whoa. He's like, I dared myself. Yeah.
Eric: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Agree. Whoa.
Elaine: They were like, What are you doing? He's like, I dared myself. I dared myself to do it.
Eric: Yeah, and then all of the recurring gags, you know, like just crunch into the numbers and do it lady, of course, and do it lady.
Elaine: Yeah. Yeah. It's really Do it lady. And she's like she's like, it's kinda catchy. Do it, lady. And he's Yeah, do it, lady. Do it, lady. So funny. Really, really good rec. I'm glad I'm like yeah, being brought into the the chit fold. Yeah.
Eric: To it, lady. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Success. Good, I'm glad. Yeah. okay. I think that's all I got. yeah, we should. We'll do it next week instead of waiting two weeks.
Elaine: Okay, cool. that was fun. Sh should we do it again? Yay. Okay. Yeah. Bye. Yay. Happy fourth. The two hundred and fiftieth. You know? Cool.
Eric: goodbye. Bye. Happy fourth. I know. Crazy.