Nirmala Sitharaman Interview: FM Talks On Demands Of Southern States, Increasing ED Raids and More

WEBVTT
1
00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:07.719
Welcome to another episode of Express Conversations, a podcast where eminent voices from the
2
00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:12.880
world of politics, governance, sports, business and arts talk to us about
3
00:00:12.919 --> 00:00:17.519
their life, work and issues that
really matter. In this episode, we'll
4
00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:24.039
hear from Mlasi Thurament Union Minister of
Finance and Corporate Affairs Minister Sethuraman will be
5
00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:28.559
taking questions from Anankoinka and be within
up a year of the Indian Express.
6
00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:33.280
They will be talking on India's big
growth push and on other matters of national
7
00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:41.840
and global interests. This is a
place that we're going to have a patient
8
00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:47.880
conversation, something that most politicians in
Delhi are fine, quite unique. So
9
00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:51.439
we're going to spend time. We're
going to listen to Nuancewers and we're going
10
00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:55.320
to sort of allow the FM to
to already speak her mind and her heart.
11
00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:03.200
Lim Alagi, It's been an incredible
joke, an absolute incredible journey.
12
00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:08.159
Six budgets in a row, everybody
in the whole world looking at India now,
13
00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:14.799
rural consumption finally picking up. You're
seeing you know, foreign capital flows
14
00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:18.519
happening. You're seeing you know,
you have seven percent three years in a
15
00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:23.239
row. It's everything is lining up. So beautifully. Is there anything that's
16
00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:26.560
keeping you up at night? Thank
you, Thank you for holding this in
17
00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:34.359
Bangaluru. And I would want this
happening in bang Luru, not just with
18
00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:40.239
me, with Benny and very many
others. More often you question what keeps
19
00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:45.040
me from sleeping in the night.
I don't want to sound too shot.
20
00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:51.599
May not be domestic issues, may
not be issues related to India's supply chain
21
00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:57.959
within India, inflation within India,
factors which may disrupt within India input costs.
22
00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:04.040
No, there may be issues domestically. But what worries me is how
23
00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:09.919
things would change externally. Is it
the wall not one too, is it
24
00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:15.080
uncertainty red sea or is it just
going to end? Or is it going
25
00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:21.759
to fester? Those are the things. The crude oil price today tomorrow,
26
00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:29.240
natural grass price today tomorrow, fertilize
surprise today tomorrow. Those are the worries.
27
00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:34.879
But you have navigated Russia and Ukraine, I would say, particularly brilliantly.
28
00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:37.840
I mean across. I mean,
obviously you know all countries will posture
29
00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:39.639
and all that. But if you
talk off record of the people who know,
30
00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:44.879
I mean, they say the way
we have played this is actually quite
31
00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:47.159
outstanding. Because you manage the US
relationship, and we've been able to kind
32
00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:51.599
of, you know, sort of
benefit in a sense, not benefit to
33
00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:53.680
the wrong word, but you've been
able to deal and trade with Russia in
34
00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:59.319
a way that's kind of been good
for our economy. I think the underlying
35
00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:07.400
point there is without compromising on national
interest and without in any way hurting the
36
00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:16.520
Indian economy, if sound arguments have
been placed with each of them, whether
37
00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:22.919
it's the Western Bloc nations, those
expressions of block no longer hold good after
38
00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:25.960
Cold War. But still I'm saying
whether it is developing countries, the Global
39
00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:32.759
South, or the developing or developed
countries, or specifically whether it is US,
40
00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:38.000
whether it's Russia, whether it's Japan. I think the personal kind of
41
00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:45.759
relationship one may say in diplomacy there's
no personal relationships, but yet chemistry works.
42
00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:52.000
Right. If leadership has such chemistry
with their counterparts, you're able to
43
00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:57.800
reason out in favor of your country. And that's where I think truly our
44
00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:03.039
Prime minister has strength. Wesley built
up relationship with each of the leaders that
45
00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:08.240
at any point he's able to seek
time, take the phone, talk to
46
00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:13.479
them, explain why he wants a
certain thing done. In our country's interest
47
00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:18.879
and certainly not to hurt anybody else's
interest. When that argument gets put effectively,
48
00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:27.839
and that argument comes from an elected
leader with mass support for him and
49
00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:34.519
who's building a stable economy with predictable
policies, it shows results, and that
50
00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:40.879
I would think is the reason why
we were able to comfortably comfortably outside.
51
00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:45.560
But you know the number of times
the phones had to be worked. But
52
00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:48.879
it is that energy which PM has
put into this whole thing. Otherwise it
53
00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:54.079
wouldn't have been possible. Somewhere China
faltering also has helped us, right,
54
00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:57.519
I mean, I wouldn't want to
put it that way. See if you've
55
00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:01.399
built India strength over a certain number
of years, decades and so on,
56
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:09.360
despite the ten years of you know, lost decade, as I would want
57
00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:12.879
to call it, despite the ten
years. And why am I saying that
58
00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:19.040
it's not for political prejudice. Every
indicator showed Indian economy was syntactors. You
59
00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:26.519
could not talk about the balance sheet
related issues. They were twin balance sheet
60
00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:30.399
problems. Your economy was fragile,
not just fragile, it was from the
61
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:38.519
bottom the fifth and your banks had
nothing to speak about. Industry truly was
62
00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.639
shifting its balance sheet. Today,
somebody asked me somewhere, you know,
63
00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.639
what are you not concerned about big
families? The Chana is going out,
64
00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:51.240
I said, I differentiate between ECH
and I families going out from H and
65
00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:56.519
I business is going out. H
and I businesses were going out in twenty
66
00:05:56.600 --> 00:06:01.480
thirteen fourteen. So when economy in
factors, and when that was the situation,
67
00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:10.000
you do realize that there's so much
to do and you get into that.
68
00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:14.120
And that's how you built the economy
in the last ten years. So
69
00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:18.720
today reaching a stage where you can
aspire for more. So the pointed question
70
00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:25.040
that you asked me, which made
me stray this far was China calturing.
71
00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:30.360
So when in the ten years you
had made sure the twin balance sheet problem
72
00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:40.160
has become twin balance sheet advantage Russobank's
words. Companies now have leveraged the benefits
73
00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:45.120
that were given in terms of taxation, and they have made sure that all
74
00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:48.839
their bad loans and everything else have
been negotiated out. They are in a
75
00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:54.439
position to expand they are in a
position to look for joint venture partnerships.
76
00:06:54.959 --> 00:07:00.240
Economy is already fit and proper to
run. When countries therefore give that circumstances
77
00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:08.279
in India and say circumstances in it
besides India, Indonesia or Vietnam. And
78
00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:13.279
when for different reasons, when countries
want to get out of let's say China,
79
00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:18.040
they have just not a Vietnam and
Indonesia. They have a big market
80
00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:27.040
as a captive audience, big market
holding India. So it is not just
81
00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:32.879
attracting people for come and do business
here, but we've created the environment for
82
00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:39.759
it. So people have seen that
while Vietnam and Indonesia also exists because of
83
00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:44.079
the efficiency, the market structure,
ease of doing business and everything else,
84
00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:48.680
India comes with an added advantage of
a large market, an efficient middle class
85
00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:54.920
which has money to do necessary real
time purchases. So they come in,
86
00:07:56.079 --> 00:08:00.720
ma'am. You know, you know, in the first ten years, particularly
87
00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:05.879
after the COVID, you navigated it
pretty bad and last three years has been
88
00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:11.639
terrific, no seven percent plus growth
and government also did the heavy lifting in
89
00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:15.399
terms of capex, really pushed up
their kapex, and you still maintained a
90
00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:20.240
fiscal deficit. Given what you did
with this mandate, What is next set
91
00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:24.319
of agenda reforms that you have in
mind? If it is like say,
92
00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:28.079
some people say three hundred becomes four
under in the next term. So what
93
00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:33.480
is it that you have in mind
to push it further? Well, I
94
00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:39.559
think you can rest assured about the
way in which Prime Minister Mody handles the
95
00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:43.159
economy. As a chief minister in
Gujrat and as a Prime minister now for
96
00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:50.120
ten full years, you have consistently
seen that he takes an approach of government
97
00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:58.080
as a whole system thinks system,
meaning government as an organization thinks together.
98
00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.200
It doesn't work in silos. So
if you brought in a policy, it
99
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:07.080
actually gets grounded because all concerned are
working towards the same goal. There are
100
00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:13.879
no pulling and pushing or you know, people moving in different directions. With
101
00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:22.720
that kind of a work culture,
the one emphasis is on system reforms.
102
00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:30.039
Whether you throw out unnecessary laws,
whether you remove those rules which are bothering
103
00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.480
you, which are becoming an instrument
in the hand of rent seekers. Everything
104
00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:39.399
that is done is done looking at
the opportunities. Remember that even during COVID
105
00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:45.840
lockdown, when we were announcing five
mini budgets within one year, the emphasis
106
00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:48.759
was still on reforms. Even as
we announced a package, we were undertaking
107
00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:54.919
two or three major system reforms,
so the next generation reforms will certainly be
108
00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.720
on track. I'm just to take
it forward, like you know yesterday also
109
00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:03.279
in a event you did talk about
So I just I don't want to take
110
00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:07.840
one question take you said three hundred
four honders. I want to come back.
111
00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:11.960
What is it that you know?
Richie Sharmadda with us recent a year
112
00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:16.919
ago and he said, this lection's
gonna be Moodie versus Moody. What can
113
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.759
you do or what is it that
you will do with four hundred that you
114
00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:22.960
couldn't do with three hundred? I
mean, is there something that's going to
115
00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:28.000
change? In fact, thank you
for taking me on that route. I
116
00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.720
was going to address these questions on
that. Did you need a four I'm
117
00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.200
not sorry. I'm not for a
moment indicating that I don't need my three
118
00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:39.720
seventy. I don't need four hundred
KIA not at all. But haven't we
119
00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:48.440
shown that even with Looksaba majority but
no numbers in Raja Saba, we've still
120
00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:52.120
cleared quite a few bills which we
easily clear and looks Aba, but we
121
00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:56.759
recent out in the Raja Saba and
managed to pass it. Otherwise, do
122
00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:05.000
you think a bill like are Article
three seventy removal would have happened when you
123
00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:09.159
put across reason. Of course it's
a bit of a tussle, but you
124
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:13.080
can still convince people. People see
your point. But of course if you
125
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:18.720
have better numbers, it's all the
better. The speed with which more and
126
00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:24.279
more major activities can be undertaken will
happen if the numbers are better. And
127
00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:30.879
I would strongly take this opportunity to
say it is only because of the continuity,
128
00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:37.559
the stability in policy, the predictability
and the taxation, and the inclination
129
00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:46.639
towards greater reform, greater transparency and
absolutely no whisper of corruption that has made
130
00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:52.399
India attractive. You think at this
stage having very clearly identified that India should
131
00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.960
become developed, not because anybody wants
it, wants to weigh that label on
132
00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:03.440
one's shoulder. India deserves better,
Our next generations deserve better. We missed
133
00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.600
the bus several times before. We
can't and it is because of that.
134
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:13.919
Good numbers, good strength in the
houses both Roke Saman and Raja Sabah will
135
00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:18.559
help India and they cannot be a
temptation now to experiment with Can it be
136
00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:22.960
a coalition government. Can it be
a lesser number government, Can it be
137
00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.399
this guy? No, it is
such a critical time for India. They
138
00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:31.759
cannot be playing around with the numbers. We need the strength in the house.
139
00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:37.600
And particularly when you've talked about the
second generation reforms and you know next
140
00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:43.120
generation, next generation many second man
is gone. Yeah, the next generation
141
00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.960
reforms, and you did talk about
land and labor as as well, and
142
00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:52.840
kind of we also realize that land
and pushing through land reforms as well as
143
00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:56.519
labor reforms are critical. In the
first ten years, like you know,
144
00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:01.679
there have been issues with land and
labor particularly farm laws also got installed and
145
00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:07.039
realized that these are critical. So
in terms of just the negotiations or discussions
146
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:13.919
or kind of consensus building, is
that an innovation possible? First of all,
147
00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:18.639
I would appeal to the media to
look at India which is now moving
148
00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:24.360
so fast and many that which can
earlier in the earlier perception, many which
149
00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.559
were taught us, oh this has
to be done by Government of India and
150
00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:31.840
now happening at the states. So
I would want media also to look at
151
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:41.159
the responsibility of both the center and
states to get into this traction to move
152
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:46.600
far fast and move forward, so
everything is not in the court of the
153
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.639
union government. Throw it at them
and say a pro farm laws that you
154
00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:56.279
can pass, you withdrew it,
now do it now. That approach of
155
00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:05.440
the media is a bit jaded.
Media also should think innovatively because what is
156
00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:11.279
otherwise possible through various state governments can
be done at that level. There are
157
00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.360
issues which are very peculiar to some
states. I don't want to pick up
158
00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.000
on an example. There are any
number of them, but the moment I
159
00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:24.159
pick it up reading between the line, you may want to ask me,
160
00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:28.679
oh, does that mean No,
I don't want to mean anything, because
161
00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:35.399
reading between line is not my type
of talk. But it is for y'all
162
00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.639
to understand. Many things are happening
in the states, and many states are
163
00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:43.559
doing it in such speed it's going
to set the track for many others to
164
00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:48.799
follow. So it need not always
be the center who does it. Worts
165
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.840
can push through that. Absolutely,
the consensus can come through the states.
166
00:14:52.919 --> 00:15:01.159
Yeah, I'm getting into a minefield, but I'm getting into it deliberately,
167
00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:09.200
knowingly, and i want to talk
about this only because only because I want
168
00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:16.720
the media also to talk somewhat on
these lines as well. Utra passes UCC
169
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.279
thousand questions over how can this happen? How live in relationship? This that
170
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:28.679
a UCC has been in Goa since
I think forty years? Will any one
171
00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:33.720
media house quote it and say let's
have a discussion now, No, it's
172
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.399
only looking at it because youse Utra
unders a bg B command. Ask them
173
00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:43.559
these questions please. I want the
public of India to have a greater,
174
00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:50.559
meaningful informed debate on issues rather than
color it right from the beginning, Virtus
175
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:54.000
exist in all colors. You've said
a mindfield. I take it to a
176
00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.240
slightly different mind field, but it's
still something because when Bangalore we should sort
177
00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.919
of it keeps coming up. Interstate
came up right now, Center state,
178
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:06.799
specifically Karnataka. That is one of
the issues that comes up that you know,
179
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:10.720
states are upset with the Center for
not sharing as much tax as they
180
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:15.559
used to. States are upset with
the Center for especially South states. And
181
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.159
it's a political sort of you know, rhetoric that somehow seems to catch that
182
00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:26.279
you know that the Center is unfair
or unfavorable to the South States. How
183
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:29.679
do you sort of have you thought
this through? And yes I have,
184
00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:37.399
and I feel sad for the people
in those states. It's one thing to
185
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:44.240
have concerns voiced, which many of
them are genuine. I come from here,
186
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:51.759
meaning belong to Karnataka representing Karnataka,
born in Tamil Nadho, married and
187
00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:56.320
Pradesh. Started my political career in
one Ndhra Pradesh which included Tanangana. But
188
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:04.519
today I may represent uh article.
There are positives and points of achievement for
189
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:14.359
all states in the South well done. There are issues which because of the
190
00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:18.319
weightage that the Finance Commission gives for
each one of these factors. Have you
191
00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:23.079
achieved education these these days? Have
you got forest cover? What kind of
192
00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:32.119
a population stabilization has happened? So
each one has a certain weightage. Now
193
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:37.039
when Southern states sit with the Finance
Commission, the elected governments during those periods,
194
00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:41.400
when they sit with the Finance Commission, they'll have to highlight and speak
195
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.480
about it and speak about it surely
for the Finance Commission to see what kind
196
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:51.319
of a weightage will then help or
if the weightages are going to be such
197
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:56.680
that it may not help in certain
particular indicator across the board. I'm not
198
00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.720
saying performing non performing states. There
are states which perform and one indicator better
199
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:07.000
than the others in some other some
other states perform. So if each of
200
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.519
the Southern states for their own uniqueness, for their own strengths, if they
201
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:18.119
put the arguments well and convincingly with
data in their hand, more to promote
202
00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:23.359
their own strengths and highlight the challenges
that they face, the Finance Commission is
203
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:27.480
going to come up with a formulation. Now in this and I repeat in
204
00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:33.960
this, central government has no role
to play except for obeying the Finance Commission.
205
00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:38.079
Finance Commission tells me, you give
this much per month, this much,
206
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:42.200
I have to do it. There's
no way in which any finance minister,
207
00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:45.279
leave alone me, any finance minister
can tweak it in favor of one
208
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:49.160
or the other. Even the wickedest
finance minister can't do it because it's all
209
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:55.799
there. But so then if Southern
states and I don't want to club them
210
00:18:55.799 --> 00:19:00.440
as Southern states, each one has
its own strength. And it's also now
211
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:10.039
getting into those very very dangerous threshold
off Southern states together, we'll have.
212
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:15.720
You had a responsible member of parliament, brother of the Deputy Chief Minister of
213
00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:21.920
Karnataka say we'll have a separate Southern
states. It cannot go to that extent.
214
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.920
I'm sorry, I can't be with
that. I'm coming from the Southern
215
00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:30.519
state. I cannot for a moment
stand next to anybody who says we in
216
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:37.119
the Southern States then demand it cannot
be that. So that is what I'm
217
00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:41.359
worried about. And the it's not
the central government. You can always tell
218
00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:45.480
me give a favorable terms of reference. No, I can't give favorable or
219
00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:51.359
against any state what is provided by
constitutions. This time particularly, I've kept
220
00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.200
it to the minimum so that the
Finance Commission takes a call. States,
221
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:57.960
please sit with the Finance Commission,
work it out. But do you accept
222
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.880
that there is a vance which has
some there's some founding, yes, but
223
00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:07.319
I want you to segregate each state
when you when you ask me that question
224
00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:12.920
and I say yes, tomorrow's headline
will be Finance Minister agrees with the Southern
225
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.920
states, that all Southern states together
have a No. Please, there's a
226
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.960
structural issue, right, that there's
a bund of the population drops, that
227
00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:30.799
the replacement population drops. And wait
a minute, with education, you actually
228
00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:33.480
you actually this is centivising them to
educate in the sense right in the structure,
229
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.920
because yes, but at the same
time, look at the mobility of
230
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:45.400
labor, the contribution of not so
performing states, labor coming here and working
231
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:51.319
here are we then got to say, please remain why where you are I'm
232
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:56.839
getting cheap labor? There are There
are very conflicting ways in which you can
233
00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:04.079
interpret this data and then then say, migrant labors don't please come to my
234
00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:08.119
state. Then the cost of production
for your work is going to go up
235
00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:15.839
also. So let's calibrate this debate. Let's not really club all the southern
236
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:19.640
states together, or let's not put
it black and white. More money to
237
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.759
us. I've been saying this repeatedly. I'll repeat one line of it.
238
00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:32.000
Bengaluru should now then say I'm not
provoking you. Bengaluru should now say,
239
00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:36.839
hey, we are the ones contributing
to Karnataka. Don't give money to Chuduka,
240
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.400
don't give money to Kala Karnataka.
We are the ones for every rupet
241
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.559
that we're giving you as tax,
give it back to us. Is that
242
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:52.559
going to work? Is that going
to help? Let's have a recent debate.
243
00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.119
That's a very fallacious. Absolutely,
you know it doesn't make sense.
244
00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:02.039
One thing which common many states say
is about the cessys which have grown say,
245
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:04.640
you know, five times in absolute
terms over the last ten years and
246
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.519
also as a percentage of cross tax
revenues up from five percent to ten percent,
247
00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:14.519
so that if it becomes part of
the total resources which government can share,
248
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.160
that is not in the hands of
the Finance Commission. Can the government
249
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:22.000
address that or is there a case
to look at it? Would you then
250
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:27.519
change the constitution? Please? Constitution
permits me to LEVI says, constitution permits
251
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:33.079
me to leve surcharge for everything else
Constitution. But on this now, Constitution
252
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:38.279
get that surcharge and says also into
the divisible pool. Please let's go talk
253
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:42.039
about it in the parliament and change
the constitution. Central government has every right
254
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:49.119
to have levies such as surcharge and
says, one second, when I subsidize
255
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:56.119
train travel when people from Bihar come
to Karnataka, When people from karnatakav go
256
00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:03.240
to Kashi but they're not they take
ordinary train and go, Yeah, subsidize
257
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:10.920
and they common people want to travel
who subsisiens subsidize it? Karnataka to the
258
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:17.400
border of Maharastra. Karnataka subsidizes Maharastra
to the border of Madhya Pradesh. Marastras
259
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:21.480
is that it. No, that's
not how it works. Central government puts
260
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:23.720
the money for the railways, puts
the money for the highways, put the
261
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:30.640
money for the roads, put the
money for the ports, builds this beautiful
262
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:40.079
terminal and that wonderful statue of Campigodagy. All center government money. Where do
263
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:42.920
I get that money? From?
What you one person given off to states
264
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:47.680
from the divisible pool. With the
rest, I should do all this also
265
00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:53.599
give the centrally sponsored schemes central sector
s schemes. I need money, And
266
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.240
just go back to the fourteenth Finance
Commission, Why we're a DG's commissioner.
267
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:03.920
Why state gave the forty one percent, meaning from thirty eight thirty two to
268
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:08.160
forty one forty two. It was
first after j and Kate became forty one.
269
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:12.559
It said, you may cut down
on the central sector schemes, bring
270
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:17.599
the CSS down. You don't have
to spend the money on it. Prime
271
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:21.920
Minister Moody did not reduce the central
sector schemes. Money still goes in that
272
00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:26.079
route. Also, so those who
are talking about a look at what Finance
273
00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:29.920
Commission said, you should also say
I'm asking you for more, but you
274
00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:33.599
may cut down the central sector schemes
pass said buy Finance Commission. Did any
275
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:37.759
one stage say that to me?
No? No, no, no,
276
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:42.039
How can this work? This change
gives a bit from Central issues to Bangalore
277
00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:45.440
issue because the first so you know, just to start with it. I
278
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:52.119
mean from your sort of vantage point
in North block Deli business people, Bombay
279
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:59.480
business people, how is Bangalore business
community different from from these two cities,
280
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:08.279
the two decent? They're quiet really
taking a clause. I mean, it's
281
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:12.119
all right if Delhi listens to us, it's fine, but we can't be
282
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:18.480
bothered going to Delhi. But because
we're all very tech savvy, we'll go
283
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:22.759
go tweeting, Hey, Central Garment, you're not doing this. You don't
284
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:32.279
take care of Bengaloo. We are
next California once. Second time you don't
285
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:38.039
get a response. We are taxpayers, honest taxpayers. We give so much.
286
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:42.240
Why are you not listening to us? Can't do this? Tag Prime
287
00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:52.160
Minister right, very powerful guys.
So Delhi businesses think they're very close to
288
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:56.519
Delhi. They can come from Noida, they can come from Gourgo, they
289
00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.799
come, meet and go. But
Bengaluru doesn't budge from beautiful Bengaluru. Cool
290
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:04.920
Bengaluru climate twice, it's brilliant.
Who wants to come to Delhi? Cold
291
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:11.599
winters, polluted Deli, hot summer, sweaty summers, not coming to Deli?
292
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.839
But my god, I have the
power of the social media thrash the
293
00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:25.039
government decent guys, but very powerful
guys. But in Bangalore, one thing
294
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:29.680
that you know, obviously said tech
and all of that. Do you feel
295
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:33.359
like they are up sort of up
to the task of artificial intelligence? I
296
00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:37.440
mean, how much are you sort
of relying on They're brilliant and the way
297
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:45.000
in which Bengaluru and its immediate surroundings
have given space for all kinds of startups
298
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.160
to work. They may be focusing
on agricultural innovation on you know, fintech,
299
00:26:49.799 --> 00:27:02.920
or innovation on medical treatments, innovation
on by biomic innovation, also on
300
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:07.799
the various kinds of technology which can
be used in AI, the tools that
301
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:15.680
you get out of AI, innovation
on drome's aerospace. Bangaluru has done brilliantly
302
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:21.559
on startups. There's no way you
can bring another one to compete with Bangaloo.
303
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:27.799
All right, Hyderabad Noida have seen
the virtues of getting the startups they're
304
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:33.480
also doing well and from to your
list, yes, but still it's going
305
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.319
to take a bit of a while
for them to catch up with Bengalo.
306
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.720
So if it, but Bangalura has
to be careful now, you know,
307
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:48.279
it's like a race. You've reached
the top, that is one struggle,
308
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.599
but to stay at the top is
another struggle, and any small thing,
309
00:27:53.160 --> 00:28:02.279
sentimental or other things can disturb that
piece. We need to be extra cautious.
310
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:06.160
Since you said this, like you
know this PATM. You know some
311
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:11.319
issues with PATM or with you know, say by Jews. I'm sure that
312
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:15.680
in a in a large ecosystem that
may not really matter, but you think,
313
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:18.319
what is in your mind? How
do you look at this issue?
314
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:25.000
And do you think that probably compliants
or corporate turnings those are issues which can
315
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:29.000
which need much more attention. I'll
just add to he said PATM, and
316
00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:32.759
buy Jews. Actually, the top
four, the poster children of the startup
317
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.440
ecosystem are right now in some bit
of a spot. Ola is in a
318
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.039
particular spot because of you know,
and all for different reasons. Dream eleven
319
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:45.440
is a different spot for different reasons
as well. They all Decker cons and
320
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:48.400
you know they're all the people that
are all startups kind of a spy and
321
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:51.119
look up to. So I'm just
adding these two more names. It's not
322
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:53.839
just two companies. But have you
have you thought about this trend that you
323
00:28:53.880 --> 00:29:00.839
know some I thought about it.
Incidentally, also have some represent coming to
324
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:07.359
me only a couple of days ago. I've had an interaction with startups,
325
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:12.759
particularly the fintech ones to understand with
what anxiety they wrote that letter to me.
326
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:19.759
It was a fantastic conversation. They
were very pointed, they voiced each
327
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:26.200
of their concerns, but let me
at the upfront say the concerns were not
328
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:33.440
emanating from patm's issues. It was
more on regular support that they may need
329
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:44.559
from the regulators clarifications which are periodically
required because their core business is not governance
330
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:49.640
and compliance related issues. Their fellows
going about innovating in their respective areas,
331
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:56.519
but for keeping the compliance business going, they need to have a team which
332
00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:00.000
is looking after it, and that
team needs the support. Wise it stresses
333
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:04.519
out those billows who are doing the
innovation. So it really cannot be otherwise.
334
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:11.480
And that meeting, I was very
glad they've voiced their concerns and they
335
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:15.200
may indirectly come out of what is
happening to the top four, as you
336
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:22.359
say, But the regulators were all
were with me and they have really understood
337
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.240
and they've connected with them. They
at least I did tell the RBI that
338
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:30.680
once in a month on a dedicated
day, they should do a virtual conference
339
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:36.279
with the startup spintech so that they
can answer questions and after that put that
340
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.240
as a FAQ so that others who
did not attend it can benefit from it.
341
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:44.359
You sounding very empathetic towards their problems, then absolutely, I'm very empathetic
342
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:52.440
because one or two or three or
four startups problems cannot be seen as entire
343
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:57.279
startup world's problems. Many of them
are doing all right. They may want
344
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:02.680
to have greater levels of comfort from
the regulators, which is fine, and
345
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:07.039
we'll provide that. I don't want
the sector to have any kind of apprehension
346
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:11.759
that maybe that's going to be my
fate as a grow Gosh in this country,
347
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:15.000
we can't do business. No,
No, the government is very much
348
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:21.000
with these startups. We want to
be sure that you will be given all
349
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:26.039
assistance because you intend to carry on
with the innovation. The compliances will have
350
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.559
to be simplified and will have to
be made use of friendly. One thing
351
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.559
that meansularly in the gaming industry and
comes up in other places one fear foreign
352
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:40.200
investors also say this retrospective tags.
Now this sounds like a very congress here
353
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:44.960
kind of thing. You know,
the word retrospective tax Is that something that's
354
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.000
reached you yet? Is No.
No, it's been from the day when
355
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.759
we had the first meeting in the
JST Council about it the second day.
356
00:31:53.079 --> 00:32:00.599
Strictly speaking, it is not retrospective
or it is very clearly. The notices
357
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:08.720
have gone very clearly on what is
extent for that period. So there's no
358
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:14.359
obligation. I mean, like leave
me. Prime Minister is very clear we
359
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:19.480
don't want to have any retrospective taxation, and particularly in the gaming and other
360
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:23.920
casinos and other things. How many
times the GSD Council, to be fair
361
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:29.960
to the Council here, how many
times they've had discussions and to be fair
362
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:36.359
to the Chief Minister of Megahalaea Conrad
Summer, chair of the group of ministers
363
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:43.039
who handled this matter twice he went
back to start from scratch to discuss this
364
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:47.079
and then only what work was accepted
was brought in. So it's not for
365
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:52.319
want of work or want of understanding. It's gone through the rigor of so
366
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:59.039
many finance ministers sitting and talking about
it to the group of ministers and then
367
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:05.920
in the entire count the wisdom of
the Council cannot be that easily site tracked
368
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:08.920
and said, have you done something
retrospective? Do you think the finance ministers
369
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:14.799
from the States would accept anything that
I do saying we wanted retrospective because we
370
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:20.200
want the money. No, so
is there so is there a I don't
371
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.960
think it's a fear only to a
particular sector. I think like we top
372
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.640
of our investors this word retrospective,
which still hurts them because it happened a
373
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.000
long time ago with the number was
so big. So is there anything that
374
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:32.720
you I mean? I would want
them to please recall as to who removed
375
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:37.359
the retrospect, who brought in the
retrospective and who removed it? Why do
376
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:43.640
you have that fear now? But
the people people who broad in the retrospective
377
00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:49.359
have been thrown out by the people
people of India and the people who protested
378
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.799
retrospective even being in the opposition after
coming to power. The first thing they
379
00:33:52.839 --> 00:34:00.640
did was to remove the retrospective and
through the parliamentary process. So why have
380
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:06.160
that lingering in your mind even now
you don't trust me? I was the
381
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.559
first one, I meaning our goverment
was the first one to remove it.
382
00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:14.719
And consistently we've been speaking against us
when we were in the opposition as well.
383
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:21.360
So retrospective and us don't go together
at all. If some other party
384
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:24.400
was sitting in power today, you
may ask them the question, not us.
385
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:29.920
I think it's a front. I'm
an issue which you know which we
386
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:34.000
hear a lot, or you know
which is reported. Of course, on
387
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:38.719
jobs, you know the government also
provided almost a million jobs in a year,
388
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:44.159
but still for say one thousand jobs, you know, lacks of people
389
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:47.920
apply. So but you a PLFS. Government data itself shows that unemployment has
390
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:53.440
come down, which is quite remarkable. But even unemployment numbers which have come
391
00:34:53.480 --> 00:35:00.440
down seem to suggest that casual labor
and self employed numbers are getting better,
392
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:06.679
which are not really in terms of
wages and they are not very remuntrated or
393
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:12.039
in real terms they have actually declined. So do you what the jobs issue?
394
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.480
How do you tackle it? Because
you want us to promote pay the
395
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:22.559
job, No I'm saying, in
terms of your interpretation that self employed people
396
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:27.480
and those who are doing their own
numbers are going up, but in terms
397
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:30.360
of real income is not really as
much. It's coming down. So are
398
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:36.960
you telling because that's the status go, we should now do promotion of job
399
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.679
rather than entrepreneurial encouragement. No,
I'm saying that you know jobs requires a
400
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:45.960
much higher run rate in terms of
growth. That is no. No,
401
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:53.920
No, tell me developed countries how
many of them are dependent on jobs for
402
00:35:54.079 --> 00:36:01.719
their having reached there. It is
a typical understanding in only developing countries.
403
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:08.159
I'm not faulting it. We have
to pass through stages in development unless formal
404
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:19.159
jobs are growing and growing in proportion
with the population growth, because our youth
405
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.880
population is something which we talk about
as a dividend and we don't want that
406
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:29.239
to become a drag on the economy
if it is not serviced. It is
407
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:34.360
a formulation that you're telling me that
you have to just promote more and more
408
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:43.519
employed for salary jobs rather than promote
employed for job. Salary jobs will happen,
409
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:47.960
but I will also want India to
have sufficient support given for those who
410
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:52.639
want enterprise to grow, who want
to employ others who want to do their
411
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:58.159
businesses. Otherwise, what is this
world of startup? Then when it is
412
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:02.960
the world of startup, you feel
ah hallo, whereas other self employed is
413
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:07.440
not good enough. No, I
think people should have the freedom to choose
414
00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:12.360
what they want and what they want
to do. It is the government's business
415
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.000
to support them, give them credit, give them ease of doing business,
416
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:22.280
give them regulatory framework which is simple, and give them mobility so that they
417
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:28.079
can do their own And if the
numbers there are growing, it's not happy
418
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:31.760
news. But somebody's gone to measure
that their real income has gone down and
419
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:37.320
therefore it's bad news. I'm with
you. We need real income also to
420
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:45.679
grow, but it cannot be only
dependent on pay the jobs for employment.
421
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:50.480
It has to be every combination of
so many things. Absolutely, I completely
422
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:52.519
agree. In terms of you know, I was saying that you know that
423
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.880
our democraphy is also such that there
is a bulge, like you know,
424
00:37:54.920 --> 00:38:00.280
there's fifteen to thirty is a large
number, and you know the job jobs
425
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:05.440
are mostly required in that youth segment, and that requires a lot of private
426
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:08.280
investment, etcetera. Which was something
which I wanted to ask you also about
427
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:13.480
that. You know, private investment
is something which I think the government has
428
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:17.159
done the heavy lifting post COVID as
well. He's still expecting the private sector
429
00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:21.159
to kind of jump in and start. You see that we are on the
430
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:24.199
trucs of that, we are kind
of almost at that stage. Do you
431
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:30.320
have that sense from people you're speaking? Yes, yes, Particularly when I
432
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:34.480
attend sessions like those which I did
yesterday in Vicki, or when I'm sitting
433
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:38.760
with CIA members, I can see
that today they are coming out again there.
434
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:43.880
I don't know if it is also
because only time can say. I
435
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:46.639
don't think I can point a finger
at anybody or myself and say we're looking
436
00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:51.199
at one end of the world but
not the other. There is a lot
437
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:59.440
of investment moving and happening in news
sectors, whether it's renewable. Look at
438
00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.880
the kind of investment which has gone
for green ammonia. Look at a kind
439
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:12.039
of money which is going for research
in battery and storage for power. Look
440
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.559
at the way in which people are
looking at semiconductors. Do you think semiconductors
441
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:20.000
in India is still just a matter
of talk. I don't want to say
442
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.679
it till the agreement assigned there will
be something happening. Even in the Northeast.
443
00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:30.400
For semiconductor manufacturing, it's a huge
ladder. You're manufacturing the first step
444
00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:32.480
of it or the second step of
it. All of them are semiconductors.
445
00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:37.360
You may not be at the top
ladder, the top rung of the ladder,
446
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:42.000
but you're still doing things. Money
is getting invested there. Look at
447
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:46.559
the investment in Rajasthan and Gujarat for
instance on green hydrogen NADO and in Gujarat,
448
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:52.039
particularly in the Cutsch area for solar. These are not small investments,
449
00:39:52.119 --> 00:40:00.280
they're huge and therefore I would think
when we are looking at private investments which
450
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.280
are happening, we should look at
the sunrise sector also take them on the
451
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:08.599
count. Look at the number of
integrated steer plants which are expanding in capacity.
452
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:13.760
Look at the advertisements which are coming
from Morisa. You think that's without
453
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:21.199
money investment. We should do a
bit more rigorous understanding work to understand what
454
00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:27.559
actually is happening. By the time
observers or you know, economy experts come
455
00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:31.800
up with the data, we have
indications everywhere that things are happening. You
456
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:36.639
know. One last question we get
to some audience questions. One of the
457
00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:39.440
fears that people the business community talks
about. Is this phrase iceed? Have
458
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:45.159
you heard this phrase ice before?
Iced? I think it's in compact CBI
459
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:47.920
ed. You know, the thought
is i've you know, have you been
460
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:51.199
iced? Is this kind of this
new phrase? Or I have been?
461
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:53.559
Why is it treated as a badge
of honor? No, I'm no,
462
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:57.800
No, it's a fear. It's
a fear. I guess that's coming iced.
463
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:00.719
Oh, it's cool to hear it. So I thought it's a badge
464
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:06.679
of honor. There is this fear
being communicated to you. Do you feel
465
00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:12.400
like there is? Because yeah,
fear gets communicated by sections which hear it
466
00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:20.360
from somebody else who hear it from
somebody else, and from political parties because
467
00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:28.079
there is a element of wanting to
be sounding vicarious. Why only opposition leaders?
468
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:30.760
You're no bjps it. You're all
not corrupt. Yes, we're not
469
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:38.360
corrupt. I'm not saying it jocularly. Tell me otherwise the media would have
470
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:45.920
would have left us ten years free
without any corruption. Gossip front page,
471
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:54.440
particularly Indian Express front page. Corruption
in this department would have been the headlines,
472
00:41:55.039 --> 00:42:00.280
as there been even a bottom line
somewhere suspicion. No, oh,
473
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:06.840
Prime Minister Moody's garment is absolutely clean
and I'm happy about it, proud about
474
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:12.039
it. But equally, if it
is only going ice, is happening only
475
00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:19.039
in opposition led the leaders' places,
tell me one place from where they've come
476
00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:24.159
empty handed. They're just not having
enough hands to count the walls, tacked
477
00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:30.320
cat locker full of gold and silver, and some lockers which I yet to
478
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:37.880
be opened. Manpar not sufficient counting
machines getting heated up. We are getting
479
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.800
counting machines sent from other parts to
say, rush, rush, there's money
480
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:47.280
to be counted. You don't want
this to be caught. Agencies should not
481
00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:52.079
work. Oh hey, please don't
go another congressman. No, no,
482
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:57.360
they'll accuse me of only targeting congress
So don't please go there. Do you
483
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:01.360
want me to say that to my
agencies. No, they will go after
484
00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:12.320
every fellow who's got black money be
iced. Yeah, you answered a politiciane
485
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:15.239
perpective, But my question more from
a business community perspective. The political piece
486
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:19.280
I'm not even getting into, but
the business community piece. Do you feel
487
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:22.079
that there is something that people I
mean, you know you said people are
488
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:24.719
getting houses in Dubai in London and
one of the reasons, no, I
489
00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:29.519
don't mind if they're doing it with
white money. Let them get it anywhere
490
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:37.599
South Pole Moon. We've gone there
also should suck the sun. Please buy
491
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:43.840
it, buy it with tax paid
money. But if you go with other
492
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.440
kind of money, I will of
course be after you because another thing.
493
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:53.679
If we don't, and I'm not
doing it for fear of but if we
494
00:43:53.760 --> 00:44:00.199
don't, India will be named as
or put in the gray list of a
495
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:06.159
FATF. FATF. Once you're in
the gray list, your investments are not
496
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:08.599
going to happen. Nobody is going
to come with money into your country.
497
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:15.039
Yeah, So is it better that
I don't catch all these people and say
498
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:17.119
no, no, I don't want
to earn the band name. Let FATF
499
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:22.000
put me in the greatest Am I
doing it only for a FATF? No?
500
00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:25.840
The first file that Prime Minister Moodie
and the cabinet did in twenty fourteen
501
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.280
was to appoint an siet was to
go after black money. We will do
502
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:37.000
it. India has to be cleaner, do with UPI payments. I have
503
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:40.000
no problem. But in this era, with digital connections being what it is,
504
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:49.159
you still want stacks of gold,
dealing in cash, unaccounted cash,
505
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:52.880
and business houses. You want me
to give an exception, No, No,
506
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:55.760
I'm just wey way. You know
that Panama papers and all the were
507
00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:59.599
the word to bring it out.
Yes, and I believe that twenty thousand
508
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:01.760
crows been recovered. We've got a
lot of information. We've got a lot
509
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:07.400
of flag for publishing these pages.
But that helped also the way in which
510
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:15.000
the sharing of information is happening from
these tax havens. From twenty eighteen and
511
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:17.480
from that the question was asked,
you're getting so much information, put it
512
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:22.679
all out. No. Our understanding
is all this information will come, but
513
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:27.679
on who you want to go to
the court, and after going to the
514
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:30.480
court is when the information will come. Because again there was this section which
515
00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:37.239
was waiting for salacious gosship. So
much came from Switzerland. Put all the
516
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:39.920
list out. We can have daily
something you know in television debated Was it
517
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:44.480
A, was it B? Was
it C. No, everything goes by
518
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:49.199
a certain standard operating procedure. When
I go to the court saying this man
519
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:52.239
has taken away this much cash without
paying the tax, the court will choose
520
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:57.440
to say it out. So is
the Panama papers. Yeah, it's getting
521
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:00.039
better. I must say some question
the audience. Can we get the first
522
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:07.000
question doctor Salujah Mike here, please
please keep the question a short go to
523
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:09.400
mister Alba that I can get a
show up hands on the questions that are
524
00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:13.480
in the audience. I can't promise
you get to all because no I have,
525
00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:16.519
ma'am. I'm just here to congratulate
you. The way i ID is
526
00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:22.760
working on the penetration of insurance.
It's in the last two years, especially
527
00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:27.360
last year, it has been absolutely
revolutionary. The only thing my suggestion would
528
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:31.920
be, ma'am, the best way
forward together is irishman with the private insurance
529
00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:38.360
companies that will actually completely take forward
the Prime Minister's vision. Man, ma'am,
530
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:42.079
thank you for being here with us, and thank you for all what
531
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.199
you're doing for us. You know
all the gray areas are slowly going away
532
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:50.039
in your tenure. My one question
was that a lot of corporate especially in
533
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:54.239
Manglo, are spending money with the
government on infrastructures like buying metro stations to
534
00:46:54.360 --> 00:47:00.679
help participation of income from the private
sector to the government, which helps them
535
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:05.639
to improve the infrastructure. Would it
be possible to re look at that,
536
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:09.840
you know, not to charge GSD
when you're contributing to the government infrastructure and
537
00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:15.199
have it discussed in their council.
They actually we are so as a company
538
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:19.280
is Embassy Group. We've recently bought
a metro station from the which to help
539
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.480
the government build a whole metro line
in a certain area which is called Outer
540
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.800
Ring Road, and there are seven
stations that is sold to private people.
541
00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:30.119
So we actually contribute one hundred crows
to buy the station. But it's a
542
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:36.079
little painful to pay eighteen percent one
hundred crows when you're contributing to the infrastructure
543
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:39.239
of the public. You know how
how many requests the data? But are
544
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:45.000
you a Section eight company? No, we're not, okay, But it
545
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:50.039
was just that on that particular road
the metro wanted there was some issue that
546
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:52.559
they needed money from the private sector
to be raised, so they didn't have
547
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.719
enough contribution from the government. I
understand, but it's a matter which the
548
00:47:55.719 --> 00:47:59.440
council will have to take a call
on it. I assure you take it
549
00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:01.719
up. Take it up in the
concept emergine every day how many requests you
550
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:08.519
get for GSD exemptions from different sectors
count? But can I share something like
551
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:13.639
I hesitate to say it, but
I have to say it. There was
552
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:16.639
this goverment servant, so he said
of himself, he said, I've worked
553
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:21.119
for the government. I said yes, and I have a witness, Sir,
554
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:24.599
I'm not making a fabricated story.
He said, I'm a government servant.
555
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:30.559
But why do I have to pay
GSD when I go to the hotels?
556
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:35.679
I said sorry, and he said, yes, I'm serving the government,
557
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:39.599
so when I go there? Why
should I pay service tax when I
558
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:45.159
go to the hostel hotels? Then
I asked, is it that you're paying
559
00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:49.599
this only after the GST came in? Didn't you have to pay tax when
560
00:48:49.599 --> 00:48:54.159
you went to the hotels even before? And by the time I could get
561
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:58.880
the answer, I was off the
bus and climbing the ramp to get into
562
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:05.679
the aircraft. So I get such
questions as well. So I don't know
563
00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:10.039
many at times if people are asking
me just to provoke me. I work
564
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:15.760
for the government, show, so
should I pay service tax when I go
565
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:22.199
and have a family gathering and you
know, join in a restaurant? So
566
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.079
I don't know. Is it a
genuine question or is it a question to
567
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:30.239
mock at me? Or is it
a question wanting a genuine answer. So
568
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:35.360
yes, there are types and types
and types of questions on GST. I'm
569
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:42.199
from Scanner Technologies. We have seen
significant reduction in corruption. Having shaired FIKI
570
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:45.559
National Committee for Medtech. I think
it's chalk and cheese. That's the difference.
571
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:53.360
We have seen what we have when
we talk to the government. If
572
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:58.239
it is within the ministry, things
get sorted out. If it has to
573
00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:02.079
do with two to three ministries,
takes very well a long time and one
574
00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:07.159
specific example I can give is when
all the ministries have agreed on the P
575
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.639
and DT Act for the medtech it
has taken eight years and things have not
576
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:16.840
been fixed. The second is on
the regulatory There are multiple regulatory bodies and
577
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:22.960
which is good for tax collection and
other compliance matters, but the tribunals that
578
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:27.400
give justice for these take very long
time. I think some of the tribunals
579
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:32.519
don't even start in six years.
The legal system is also taking a long
580
00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:37.320
time. So if the regulatories are
empowered and the tribunals and the legal system
581
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:40.920
does not catch up, it's going
to be a huge impact. Like what
582
00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:47.719
mister Gonka said on the industry bodies
being victims of these ice. The third
583
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:53.199
thing is on PLI. PLI link
to R and T will bring Arthmann Eerberg,
584
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:59.519
but PLI link to just production has
got a detrimental effect. Since the
585
00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:05.360
question is along the PLI leave the
PLI. You've got one lack crore given
586
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:09.119
as seed money for R and D
in private sector. In this budget,
587
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:15.559
we are forming a SPV and their
SPBE and we are giving them fifty year
588
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:20.960
interest free money one lack crow which
they can in turn give it to private
589
00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:25.199
R and D at whatever costs they
choose. So when we are giving it
590
00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:30.480
interest pay for fifty year, they
naturally will probably be giving you the minimum
591
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:35.400
charge that they can to promote R
and D. So we have come up
592
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:37.199
not just the same PLI wrote.
We've come up with something else new.
593
00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:44.119
We're running short of time, a
quick, rapid fire, short answers.
594
00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:46.360
This is going to be a short
real on Instagram, so we're trying to
595
00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:51.159
catch the younger audience. Doesn't necessarily
hear your budget, the full budget at
596
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:58.639
least, and you know, just
have fun with it. Jobs, monopolies,
597
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:05.760
privatization, rural consumption, private investment. Which of these domestic issues are
598
00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:13.440
you most concerned about private investments,
Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Palestine or
599
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:16.920
China Taiwan. Which of these three
global issues are you most concernable all three,
600
00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:27.119
Pradab Mukherjee to Dambram Manmohan Singh,
Yashwan Sina. The one opposition FM's
601
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:32.320
budget that you have studied closely.
I've read all of them closely. Your
602
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:37.760
one line of advice to the startup
entrepreneur in Bangalore today who wants to be
603
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:43.400
a unicorn one. They're doing doing
fine and they will reach the level of
604
00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:49.039
unicorn. They don't need my advice. The one lesson you've learned from China's
605
00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:59.760
faltering economy in the last ten years
be India, be Indian finance or defense
606
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:07.320
from which ministry is engaging with Beijing
more challenging well after COVID. I've not
607
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:10.280
had any opportunity to engage with China, so I can't compare. Okay,
608
00:53:12.760 --> 00:53:17.039
Nebla Jim, you're sort of yet
to be born. Grandchild comes up to
609
00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:22.079
you with her first oh he's or
her first paycheck and ask you for your
610
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:27.159
advice what they should do with that
paycheck? What would you say? Save
611
00:53:27.199 --> 00:53:30.079
it? S per NILTI thank you
so much. For your time, Thank
612
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:34.960
you being so candid for giving us
so many headlines. Always wonderful to have
613
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:37.599
you. And thank you to Banglore
for being here for our first really special
614
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:44.440
to meet. You were listening to
nim Malasi Tharaman on Express Conversations. If
615
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:46.760
you like the show, then do
subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast.
616
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:51.079
You can also recommend the show to
someone who you think will like it
617
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.719
and share it with a friend or
someone in your family. It's the best
618
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:58.280
with people to get to know about
us. You can also tweet us at
619
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:06.480
Express podcast and right to us at
podcasts at inelexrest dot com.