WEBVTT
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It's okay.
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I can be a person where my feet are.
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That's good.
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That was good.
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Have I had other people of your profession, I guess, on the podcast in the past.
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So I think that would be the number one, I guess, lane of industry that we've uh interviewed before.
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Um but never anyone in your specific field.
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So that'd be pretty interesting.
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But um wherever you're watching from, wherever you're listening from, thanks for coming.
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Uh another episode in the books, another day above ground is a blessing.
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And you know how we do this thing every single time.
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We are gonna get into the warm-up segment of the podcast.
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As you know, we like to heat the joints up, like to get the body going, get you in a good mode.
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So if you're cleaning the house, turn us up to ignite levels of volumes.
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If you're riding in the car, do the same thing.
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Um today is Is it the official today's uh officially fall, right?
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I think.
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Yeah, either today or in the next few days.
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Right.
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So summertime's over.
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We've already determined that by you know the the date of things, but you know, the weather's starting to cool down a little bit.
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And anytime it cools down, I like to get into my hoodie season, you know, era and bag.
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Um and I think that I think you're a I don't know exactly how old you are, but I assume you can appreciate a little bit of 90s hip hop.
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1000%.
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All right, great.
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There we go.
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So anytime it starts to get cold, I go right back into that mode in that bag.
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So as always, turn the levels up to ignite volumes, couple air horns on the way in.
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Kick it off with D verse warm-up.
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Hello, let's get it going.
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Oh no, my volume isn't right here.
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Wait a minute.
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There we go, y'all.
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Different time, different place, different era.
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Not so long ago, it doesn't feel like so long ago for some of us.
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I consider myself a millennial still.
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I call myself the Millennial Music Wire.
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So, you know, I like to lean back at that era, that time.
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Come along with us, y'all take a vibe.
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Uh get yourself ready for a great conversation.
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It's been a while since I bounced a little combo off of someone else.
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So I'm really looking forward to that today.
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But you know, just vibe with people now.
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I put two waters out there for you.
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And I was interested to see which one you were gonna go for.
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Because you know some people like tap, not tap room temperature water, some people like cold water.
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So And then you got your Eagles water bottle too.
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We're gonna accept you today just because we have to, you know, but anybody that knows me on this podcast, they know that I'm a very, very competitive with my New York sports teams.
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And anything that is Philadelphia, New York in the last couple years has been like a hot button.
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Topic okay.
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We can we can leave that off the table for that.
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We can put it on the table too.
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We do play y'all in the next month or so, so I mean I'm looking forward to that.
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Listen, I let the players do their job.
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I just might do the fan job.
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That's fair.
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That's fair.
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And it's week two, so like we can't really talk about that much yet.
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Right.
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Y'all doing good right now though.
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Yeah, up currently while we're recording.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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Hopefully it stays that way.
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Listen, y'all, wherever you at and wherever you're listening from, we got listeners and want viewers from like all over the place in this podcast.
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You know, a little bit of overseas, a little bit of Asia, Europe, South America.
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So, you know, this one might go a little further than you may.
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Well, I don't know.
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As someone who's done it, which we'll dive into a little bit more before, like what is your I guess how big did your reach get?
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I like to consider myself a super small time creator, the king of the small time creators.
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You know, uh how how successful, I guess, was yours when you were doing it?
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I mean, I don't actually I couldn't even tell you the numbers right now, but like definitely stateside.
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And I think there were like a like a couple of people in Europe, maybe.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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I still wonder how people, you know, in those spaces find podcasts.
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So I would love to hold some of my my listeners' viewers at that point.
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But I think some of it is the power of social media, right?
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Like if you right, you share and somebody's connected here and then they get it and they share, it's yeah.
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Alright, y'all, let's keep this thing going.
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Hopefully, you know where we're kind of leaning into today so we keep this thing super 90s.
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One of my favorite art rap groups of all time.
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Ooh, messed up.
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My DJing skills ain't exactly on point today.
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Couple air horns.
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If you're not up just yet, wake up the energy.
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Stay with us as we warm this thing up.
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You know, the pain in my knee just started to kind of dissipate a little bit as I get a little closer to game time.
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So stay with us.
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Little outcast in the building.
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Oh natural black game.
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No second.
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Well, it's the MI Cricket.
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Ain't no one better.
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And when I'm on the microphone, you best away your sweater, cause I'm cooler than a polar bear's toenails.
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Oh, then you go again.
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Corners like I was a curve.
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I struck a nerve, and now you about to say that something flagged slur.
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If I heard that's not what you want, but what you pay rent.
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Then I heard it's not what you make.
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But how much you think you got me fit that elbows?
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Amongst other things, but I'm not worried.
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Cause when we step up in the party like I'm out to stir it.
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So what is your fucking side box and your stack of nickels, it tickles.
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You about to be like Mr.
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Fickle.
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If you remember this one, if you know this one singing word for word, if everybody let me make it stay okay.
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Those of us 40 and up, those of us 50 and up, maybe mid 30s.
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I forget exactly what a millennial thing cuts off at, but we don't we like to leave it to those people.
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If you're too young, go act your parents about it.
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If not, I will be just the future of the world depends on.
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If or if not the child race, gon' have that nigga syndrome.
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I will it know to beat the arts regardless of its skin tone.
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I will feel that it's the tune and it just might get picked on.
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I will give a fuck about what other play and get gone.
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The alienators cut them different, keep your hands to the sky.
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Like sound of blackness when I practice, when I preach it, don't lie.
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I'll be the maker and the maker of the beast of my pop.
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Now break a breaker to the phone, can I get some reply?
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So given all the places you like lived in your lifetime, someone who's somewhat traveled, like I guess musically in your younger days, what were your favorites?
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Like what was your thing?
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I mean, so here's the thing with me is I appreciate music for what it is, but I'm like, if you asked me to name artists and songs, I wouldn't be able to do it.
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That's fair.
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But I would say, I mean, I always go back to like 90s typical.
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Uh-huh.
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Always frustrated and now.
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I know some of the people we are frequented around now might not, you know, appreciate our perspectives on it, but they really don't make it like they used to.
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Keep it going with a job.
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We're gonna get to this thing in a moment.
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Well, slow walk the dog, it ain't game time just yet.
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So I'm ready for war.
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Let's get it going, y'all.
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We got one more for y'all as we keep this thing rolling towards our intro.
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One of my favorite artists of all time.
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And if you didn't know, this is not.
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Thank you for the you know, you feel warmed up with the rest of the listeners with us.
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I excel, death, bell.
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Don't make us contact that I attract my tell.
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Oh my check is like a depth that it's like a trap by XL.
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Like a damn like a comment on the L and I'm a check and hit the upper like a comment face.
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So he's dressed like my friend and extended.
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80s, 90s, 2000s.
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Come along with us, table it's a little longer.
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We'll be there in a moment.
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Speaking of secure, do you see the kills like catching a flag right now?
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All over the internet.
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Not to make it political or anything like that, but he was seen getting a honorary, I think, FBI.
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Like, you know, like a honorary doctor, honorary this thing.
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He was like an honorary F BBI agent, and he was teamed with Cat Spattel, the director of the FBI recently.
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Okay.
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One because Jack likes to like it's not the first time he's been like honorary law enforcement, so it's like, why do you want to keep like playing a cop?
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But it's also a person who's played multiple things in his life, like, outside of being an athlete.
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I don't remember if you know the uh did movies of Shazam, that amazing piece of content.
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And then they got the other one where it's like a superhero, but I forget the name of it.
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But Zach has always been like uh, I guess uh bigger than just the the game kind of person, but yeah, he hit up the internet with that one recently, so I'm gonna have to look that up.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Very interesting conversation that's game.
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I don't know how into the social media thing you are, but people are pretty angry at Zach right now.
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I can understand that.
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I can understand it.
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Is that like something that they do, like honorary FBI, or is that like they're doing?
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You know, I think it's maybe something that they're doing.
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Uh-huh.
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Them being, you know, to whom it may apply.
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Uh-huh.
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Yeah, making choices.
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Well, once again, wherever you are, wherever you're listening from, thanks for coming to check us out as we warm this thing up.
00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:09.600
Body feels good now.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:12.320
We've settled into the the the competition ahead of us.
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Not that this is a competition or anything.
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I got you, I got you.
00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:19.200
Uh, so as we intro this thing, as always, one more time, we are back for another audio occasion.
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It is the podcast for self-starters and those willing to make the most out of any situation.
00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:24.720
The EFS podcast is back.
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Uh, and as we kick off, we got a little bit of lead-in audio for you today.
00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:31.600
Hopefully, I lost it again.
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:36.159
This always happens to me when I do this, but I'm a little bit quicker at getting it back now.
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Um today's audio is gonna come from a person who is on the collegiate level.
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You know, we'll talk about our guests here in a moment, a little more specifically, but says some very powerful things in the media, and it kind of changed some of my perspective on some of the NIL comments I made, which I still feel like, and I'm not willing to completely die on that just yet, but this young man, uh, someone who's a little bit closer to our region, too.
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I don't know if you saw this one from um Penn State um a player, but here it goes.
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It's a big opportunity, you know.
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My parents still struggling.
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You know, I'm broke, you know.
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So while everybody else still trying to buy their next pendant or buy their next car, I'm really just trying to fill in all the holes that I have back at home.
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Understanding the platform that I'm having, and just seeing all of that stuff and like understanding how far I came, I really try to take advantage and um take full advantage in the opportunity that I can, like I said, with the platform.
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Because I come from none.
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When I go home, I'm not even a football player, I'm still a son.
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So everything that I gotta do beforehand and afterhand, I gotta do it based off my parents.
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That football stuff is out the door.
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So, you know, for the opportunity that I gotten with the NIO era and the great coaching staff and all that, I'm thankful for that.
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:57.679
And that is that coming from Ciale to uh Pocky.
00:12:57.759 --> 00:12:59.519
Sorry if I butchered your name on that one.
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:06.320
Uh, but college football athlete for Penn State sharing his perspective about the you know opportunity he is presented with.
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Uh so as always, as we get this thing going, get my intro music up, let my theme music run.
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We got one, two, three, four, an abundance of air horns on the way in.
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Get yourself ready for some interesting conversation today.
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Very happy to be back in the the spot with someone else.
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:32.080
Um, but as always, if you made it to the audio slash visual occasion, please do not forget to like, comment, share, and subscribe.
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:33.519
It is the EFS Podcast.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.600
We are back for episode number 88 with your boy, the man, the myth, the legend, Mr.
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1%, 2 times, Mr.
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D.
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Burke.
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Um, and very happy to be in the house with our guest today.
00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:51.759
Uh, we'll go official introductors in a moment, but you know, a big round of applause for coming to hang out with me for a little bit and enjoy some very interesting conversation.
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We got Dr.
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Dr.
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CJ, would you call it?
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Dr.
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You know, officially Dr.
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Christine J, who will get into a little bit more about how we met each other uh momentarily, but as we fade out to Steam music, how are you doing?
00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:05.120
How are you feeling?
00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:06.559
You know, just welcome.
00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:07.360
Welcome.
00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:10.879
I'm just I've told you this before we started recording, but this setup is legit.
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.480
I thank you.
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:18.320
I, you know, put a lot of hard work into us, and I do appreciate when people can kind of appreciate that, you know, upon entry.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:23.120
So yeah, yeah, it's been a very long, long process again to this point.
00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:26.240
So, you know, once again, I appreciate you coming to kick it and hang out with us.
00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:27.279
Yeah, well, thanks for having me.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:28.080
Yeah, 100%.
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:33.440
Uh so as we start this thing off, uh, we will get into you.
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:39.200
Um and I want you to kind of go over your background, your you know, your path in life to where you're currently at.
00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.759
Uh first off, your current, you know, role and your current position.
00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:43.120
Uh so what do you do?
00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.639
And uh we'll dive more into why that's important to us here on the podcast in a moment.
00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:51.039
Yeah, so um I'm a clinical sports psychologist, so I'm over at the University of Delaware.
00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.039
I've been there for about seven years.
00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.639
Um, how I got here?
00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:57.519
Yeah, sure.
00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.480
You know, like tell us what, you know, got you into that role.
00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:04.080
Uh how long have you been in the you know professional psychology?
00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:09.679
Um and uh what kind of you know, what what did where did that spark for you at what point in life?
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:10.720
Sure, sure.
00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:13.679
So I have been an athlete my entire life.
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Started with dance.
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Um when we moved to New York, I love telling this story because my mom my mom had all the feels about it.
00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:24.159
I apparently was a really, really good dancer.
00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:29.600
And so when we moved to New York, my mom had made a promise to my dance teachers to keep me in the studio.
00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:35.120
And so we moved to um we moved to Virginia and my brother wanted to take karate.
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And he was like, really cool.
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I want to do it too.
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And my mom looked at me and she's like, But I promised your teachers.
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.159
Six-year-old me was like, I don't care.
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.080
I wanna take karate like this.
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:44.960
Sounds really cool.
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:45.200
Right.
00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:51.200
So trained in martial arts, tested for my black belt in the fifth grade, was the first female to get my black belt from that studio.
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.919
And then um shifted gears and soccer became my main focus.
00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:56.320
Okay.
00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:01.440
Um so played soccer year-round, and then in the summers I would dive at the pool.
00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:16.159
I wasn't I didn't like swimming, you know, the traditional swimming, but I fell in love with the board and taught myself by watching the practices and I would like listen to how the coach was telling them how to do these dives, and I just started doing it, and then they were like, Why are you not competing?
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:20.000
And so long story short, competed for about four or five years.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.159
Um did really well.
00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:27.120
Um, and then went to college, played uh division three soccer.
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.159
Um, yeah, soccer was my main thing, black belt and karate.
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:35.279
So I like to say I'm a psychological ninja because I have a black belt karate and a PhD in psychology.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:43.759
Um I didn't really uh know like what psychology was, but that's what I went to school to study.
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:54.639
So majored in psychology, minored in studio art, and the summer before my junior year of college, I discovered the field of sports psychology just randomly on the internet.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:58.879
I don't know what I was doing, uh, but that set my path.
00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.360
I took two years off after undergrad.
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:07.599
Um, mostly I'm just gonna be real, mostly I partied and had a good time because I was very studious in college.
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.440
Yes, yes.
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:16.160
I didn't really start partying until my junior year of college, so I had like two years to make up on.
00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:23.680
So um then I went and did uh my master's in kinesiology with a sports and exercise psychology concentration.
00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:24.079
Okay.
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:36.079
And when I was there doing the performance work, when I was meeting with athletes, I found myself more drawn towards the life elements that were contributing to whatever was showing up in their sport.
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:47.599
And so I made the decision to apply to counseling psychology programs and got accepted to the University of Memphis, and that's where I went, spent five years there.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.720
And yeah, I spent seven years in grad school because it was a pretty freaking long time.
00:17:52.960 --> 00:18:12.960
And then got um just a general college counseling, like a clinician job out of my degree, got licensed, all of that, and then I had this moment where I had to like check myself and say, Hey, you got into this field to do sports, and you're just you're kinda dabbling and like, yeah, you're getting a paycheck, but you're miserable.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.839
I did not enjoy where I was working.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:26.160
And so I am a big affirmation person, and the first affirmation that year it was like I think I put them on my wrote all these down in January, I think.
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.160
And the first one was I'm the head sports psychologist at a division one university.
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.440
Nine months later, I got the job at Delaware.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.240
And moved there four months before the pandemic.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:40.720
Okay, and have been building it ever since.
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:48.400
So from the point of learning about the field to when I got my job as a sports psychologist was 15 years.
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:49.680
Okay, nice.
00:18:49.839 --> 00:19:00.960
Cause I was gonna say, off of everything that you were just speaking about, like when did because I'm a college athlete or was at one point in my life, and you know, uh these people who follow this podcast definitely know that.
00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:02.880
Um we talked about it enough on here.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:09.200
Uh, but I feel like those that industry wasn't very like prevalent back when I was in college.
00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:09.599
Right.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:16.559
Like it was just like practice, do your homework, and whatever else happens in between, we'll make sure we check on you if necessary.
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:31.839
So when did it become more like of a focus for schools to offer like mental health services and just generally have that kind of support for athletes, you know, which we'll dive more into what UD is doing in a second, but like when did that kind of start or when did that shift uh happen?
00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:42.480
Yeah, so when I was in my master's program, my advisor or the one who was training me on that side of the things, um, said that we were third generation in the field.
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:43.039
Okay.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.680
So the field is still very, very young.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.880
So the um in the American Psychological Association, we have different divisions.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:54.960
So Division 47 is the Society for Sport Exercise and Performance Psychology.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:01.359
That's the I sit on the board, I'm actually the president-elect right now of that society.
00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.559
But we just celebrated our 40th anniversary.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:08.640
So the field is like basically as old as I am.
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:25.680
Um and so yeah, I and I always say if I if sports psychology had been a thing and I had access to someone doing what I do, I don't know if I would be in the field because I might have had a different athletic path, right?
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.799
And who knows where that no regrets, right?
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:42.880
Like I loved my life, I loved college and all of that, but I do sometimes wonder there were some some places where I could have competed at a higher level, but my mind was holding me back, and so yeah.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:50.000
So that's what like the majority of the people our age that I talked to, they're like, Man, if I only had you, and I'm like, I know, if I only had me too.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:50.960
No, for sure.
00:20:51.119 --> 00:21:00.400
You know, I look back at some of my times in college and I I think about like I you probably needed some support or some help then when you were going through what you were going through mentally at that time.
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:05.359
So uh I'm a big, you know, proponent and advocate of mental health and athletes.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:13.359
So for me, when we first connected, which was just by happenstance when I was doing an event, uh somewhere you were are you still a member there?
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:13.920
I am.
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:14.559
All right, great.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:21.519
We can shout them out because my girlfriend is the one with the the head of operations for her ownership group uh at restore hyperwellness.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.599
So they that was where we first met.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:30.640
And then, you know, when we when I asked you what you did and you immediately told me what it was, it was like, okay, I have to talk to you at some point.
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:40.079
Just because, you know, my own journey with sports as an athlete and just again the mental health struggles that all athletes can kind of go through is something that interests me.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:54.559
Um so it even more so interests me that in your current role with the University of Delaware, you are doing so well that UD is ranked the number two uh in the nation for I guess the exact category, I want to say it correctly, with number two in the nation for what?
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.759
For mental health support services to the athletes, I think this organization it's like.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:11.359
I because I looked into it last year when it first came out, and I think it's some sort of organization that student athletes are members of, and then they survey their membership.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:19.920
And our student, so it's the piece that's really cool is it's our students that are sharing that we have really great resources.
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:21.759
I have no idea what the questions are.
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:27.039
Um, but yeah, the fact that they see it and two years in a row, we've been in the top 10.
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:28.640
Okay, nice, nice.
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:34.079
Yeah, so that means you guys are doing a really, really good job of keeping your athletes in a good space mentally, you know.
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:41.039
Um, so talk about what that looks like for you on a, I guess, a day-to-day basis or weekly basis, whatever.
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.359
Like how many athletes are you in front of?
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:49.680
Uh, and what kind of issues or maybe not issues, what kind of things, what kind of conversations are you having with them?
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.720
Uh, what kind of services are set up for them in that lane?
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:54.079
Yeah, absolutely.
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:59.440
So when I started at Delaware, it was just me for 600 student athletes.
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:00.240
Yikes.
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:01.440
Oh, yeah.
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:03.920
And then that thing called the pandemic happens.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:05.039
As well, right.
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:05.519
Yeah.
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:09.440
I mean, it just like that is that is not the way to do it.
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.160
Like one person for 600 is a really poor ratio.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:17.200
Um, but now there are three of us um full-time for our student athletes.
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:19.359
I'm more in an administrative role at this point.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:26.640
So I have two staff members, full-time staff members, licensed mental health providers who also have a specialization in sports psychology.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.400
Because we do the mental health, we do the performance and the blend.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:31.920
Um yeah.
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:38.000
So a typical week, um, I tell my team, you know, 20 to 25 clinical hours.
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:45.039
And that can be that one-to-one in the office with the student athletes, but then it's also being out in the environment.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:53.759
So it might be attending practices, having consultations with coaches, but also being in front of the teams delivering mental performance programming.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:58.559
And so one day you could have, say, six clients coming in one-on-one.
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:06.960
And then the next day it could be a coach consultation, a couple of staff meetings, and going out to practice, and then a game in the evening.
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:12.880
And when we're at games, it just really depends on the coaching staff and our level of involvement with the teams.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:14.960
For some of them, we're on the sidelines.
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:16.880
For some of them, we're in the locker room.
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.079
Um, some of them the coaches are consulting us at halftime.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:24.720
It just really depends on one, the coach's philosophy and two, what they need.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:26.720
And three, how integrated are we?
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:31.839
So the coaches are the ones that are trying to like integrate you, like you just said, into what they're doing.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:43.200
Like, and are they the ones that make the decision about who gets to see the athlete when, or is it a place where the athlete has an open line of communication to you guys and then can say, hey, like I'm really like bugging out this week.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:45.680
I got finals, I got, you know, this and that on my plate.
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:47.200
Like, how exactly does that work?
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:49.440
Yeah, so we don't do any mandated care.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.240
Um that's yeah, we just don't do it.
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.079
So the student athletes have to reach out and ask for appointments.
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:56.480
Okay.
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.519
Um, they can also, like when we're in the space, we're working.
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:06.880
You know, one of the joys is we get to watch sports as part of our job, but we also are there um to support them.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.799
And so I just tell them, hey, we're always working.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.880
So if you need something in the middle of practice, like come over and we can have a conversation.
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:19.440
Um, so yeah, they come in, but our coaches also can submit information to us and let us know, hey, this is what we're seeing.
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:22.880
Um, we have a form that all of the support staff can fill out.
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:32.960
And so if a coach sends us something about an athlete or um the academics are seeing something and then the athletic trainer is seeing something, then we're gonna reach out, right?
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:34.480
And be like, hey, what's going on?
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:36.000
Do you need something?
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:47.279
Um yeah, so it really is driven by the athlete because you know, you have to be wanting to engage in change and be willing to do the work, um, or it's not gonna not gonna work right.
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.359
Right as anything in that field.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:56.319
Do you feel a lot of athletes are like reluctant to kind of seek out those services, or like what is your, you know, feeling?
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:02.559
Because my thought is that mental health is the awareness of it is like at an all-time high from where it used to be, you know.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:13.680
So now I feel like, and even more so for what I'm understanding about this generation of athletes, is they are usually more um open about the fact that they're dealing with something uh than we might have been in my generation.
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:16.240
But I know that you know, where there's one, there's still the other.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:26.160
So I guess how often do you feel like there's pushback from athletes about the mental health services or versus the ones that are like all in, like, hey, like I do need help with this, so you know, please step in, you know.
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:26.880
Sure, sure.
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:31.920
I mean, there are some that when you're walking through the facilities, they're like, Hey, Doc Jay Hugh, I'll see you at two.
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:33.200
And I'm like, Okay, cool, cool.
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:33.519
Thanks.
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:43.839
You know, like there was one day I was walking through our um Whitney Athletics Center, and I'm going up the stairs and I pass one athlete, and they're like, Hey, that thing we talked about, and I'm like, Yeah, yeah, okay, cool.
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:45.039
You know, we're like out in public.
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.559
And then somebody's like yelling at me from across the way, J Hugh, I need to schedule with you.
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:49.759
And I'm like, you know how to find me.
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:51.039
And then someone's like, I'll see you at two.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:52.559
It's just like, okay.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.839
But I I will say, you know, women are more likely to seek help than men.
00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:58.319
Always.
00:26:58.559 --> 00:26:59.359
We know that, right?
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:01.759
And it doesn't change based off of identities.
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:07.599
Um, and so we do like the majority of our individual clients are female.
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:12.240
Um, the men that come through tend to come through on a performance.
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:14.799
Um, like they'll say performance is the thing.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:21.200
And then when they get in the room and the trust is there, then it's hey, here's all of the life pieces.
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:30.960
Um yeah, I mean, uh, really it's uh like the differentiation is from a gender standpoint for the most part.
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:32.480
Um, I understand.
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:44.000
And I've been one on here that many, many times have spoken about, you know, men's health men's mental health and awareness around that and the fact that guys are, you know, a lot more reluctant to seek that out, you know.
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:51.519
And as someone who's been in therapy, I'm not currently, but you know, at a certain point in my life, uh I was for a decent amount of time.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:51.759
Yeah.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:53.839
Um, and I I support it.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:28:00.559
So I do know that the the male and definitely the male athletes could have a little more pushback, but I was just curious to see, you know, what that's like.
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:01.039
Yeah.
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:03.839
And I think I wouldn't necessarily say that they have pushback.
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:06.720
I think it's still like it's just taboo.
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:19.039
And there are some sports that like mental performance, even the mental performance side for some is taboo, but there are some sports like tennis, golf, like mental performance has been a staple for them.
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:25.039
And so they are, I would say, less reluctant to come through the door and then it opens up.
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:32.160
But I would say a a um differentiating factor is the support staff and particularly the head coach.
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:54.319
If the head coach is open and welcomes us in and engages in the dialogue, is in the room when we're doing the sessions and they're asking questions and they're reinforcing what we do outside of the time that they're with us, then that's when I start to see more of the athletes who like traditionally wouldn't come through, then they start to show up.
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:54.880
Nice.
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:55.279
Yeah.
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:55.759
Nice.
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:57.680
Same on the women's side, right?
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:02.640
Because there are some there are some female coaches out there that I'm like, do you have feelings?
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:04.319
And they think they don't.
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.079
You see it in their team.
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:07.279
Fair enough.
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:07.519
Yeah.
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:08.480
Fair enough.
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:20.000
Um, so along the lines of, you know, still what we're talking about in the college athletics, um, uh, wanted to kind of move the conversation forward just because, you know, my generation versus where we're at now uh is different.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:27.519
And, you know, coming off of the leading audio that we had with the young gentleman who's, you know, uh he's an eighth-year uh football player.
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:27.920
Yeah.
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:30.400
So, you know, one of those people who stretched it out.
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:31.759
Yeah, not anymore.
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.799
Not anymore with the age-based eligibility that just came out.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:30:04.480
So I did, I was, I would say I'm a fan of that rule coming out because my perspective has always been like that, and again, these people know that when you don't cap your eligibility in college, it kind of slows things up for the next generation behind you, which is the young athletes coming from middle school to high school to then college, like the pathways look a little bit different now just because they're giving athletes so many years in college that you know, kind of uh like it's a trickle-down effect, and I think has kind of soured the game in certain ways.
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:04.880
Sure.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:14.000
Uh, but do you see any kind of a, you know, I guess trickle-down effect into like the mental health side of it with a new uh NIL?
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:23.119
Well, now we're kind of fixing things, but where things have been at with the NIL era um and players uh feeling so easy to jump around from school to school.
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:23.359
Yeah.
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:33.519
Like how has that kind of played into what you do, or have you seen any kind of again trickle-down effect into that part of it um with you know where things were at and kind of maybe rectifying a little bit now?
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:43.839
Yeah, well, I think there's two things at play right now is one of it is the students in college and coming to college now are COVID era kids.
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:44.319
Right.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:49.279
And so from a developmental standpoint, there's an impact there.
00:30:49.680 --> 00:31:06.400
And then you bring the NIL pieces in, and you've got people who developmentally and socially delayed, like don't know how to send emails and don't know how to like follow up appropriately that you would expect um when you're in like that business setting.
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.240
And I mean, college sport is a business now, I guess it always has been.
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:25.839
Um, so you've got those pieces, and then you're asking them to make humongous decisions in a landscape that is still very much unknown with parents who didn't have to go through that landscape, even if they were an athlete themselves.
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.200
And so people are getting really, really bad advice.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.839
They're making decisions and being influenced by other people.
00:31:34.160 --> 00:32:00.160
Um, and then yeah, I think when you when you jump around, you don't build resilience because if you're like, fuck you, coach, like you didn't play me or and you think you're a superstar when really like maybe you did deserve to be on the bench, or you weren't putting in the effort and you weren't developing yourself, but you've got people from your past and your stat line from high school hyping you up when it's like, no, sweetheart, you're at a different level now.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:09.680
And so I don't think that we're building resilience and grit and the like stick to itiveness when we can just say, I'm gonna go get a bag somewhere else.
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:19.440
And then these people are giving them deals off of, you know, previous stat lines and they don't know if they're a cancer in the locker room or you know what their work ethic is like.
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:23.440
And um, that's not for everyone, but that's what I tend to see.
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:29.759
Like now the coaches are wising up to it and when they're like, you're trying to come here as your third and fourth school.
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:34.880
Like, we have some coaches not even touching it anymore because they've done it and it has not turned out well.
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:35.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:40.000
And interesting that coaches are kind of hipping themselves to it now.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:53.359
Um, but have you, I guess off of what you just said, have you ever had that kind of conversation with any athlete who may be thinking, like, hey, I want to get out of here and you've made them realize that, you know, be where your feet are, like you said a little bit earlier.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.160
Um, has that ever happened in your career?
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:01.680
Um, yeah, I mean, we talk to athletes all the time about is this the right place for me?
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:04.720
And then we break down all the different pieces, right?
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.279
Like, what were you expecting when you came into this?
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.000
And were your expectations met or unmet?
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:11.119
And in what regard?
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.720
And for some people, it's hey, I actually need to move down a level.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:22.720
Because part of what's happened like with Delaware is we went from F um FCS to FBS in the last year.
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:30.240
And so all almost we're in Conference USA now, and so not all of our um sports are sponsored by Conference USA.
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:43.200
So we have a chunk of them in C USA and then others in various, but like for our RevGen sports, they're in a whole different they're playing against different, they were recruited to play in this one league, and then now they're playing against big people.
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:50.880
Like I remember some of our basketball players telling me, like, I was so glad I was never gonna have to see that woman again because she was like a brick wall and there wasn't anything I could do.
00:33:51.039 --> 00:34:00.799
And it's just like that that adjustment to the level of play, and then what does that do again on your expectations of what you thought you were coming in for and what you're actually getting?
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:06.960
Um I think, yeah, I mean, we do have conversations about like, is the grass greener on the other side?
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:11.599
And then it for me, it always comes back to what are your values and what are your goals?
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:18.400
And if you left your college experience and didn't have access to X, Y, or Z, like how would that feel?
00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:27.280
And just really try to ground them in what truly matters to them because the shiny stuff is really enticing, but but it's it can also be like a drug.
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:28.559
Yeah, for sure.
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:29.360
For sure.
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:50.159
It gave me some things to think about, some interesting perspective that I didn't really realize with athletes, especially with the whole COVID era thing that often did not factor in how that changed kids and people who were developing themselves around that time and then throw them into college, with then, you know, now millions and millions of dollars getting thrown around and put in their faces.
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:56.639
So yeah, it is a tricky time, and definitely good that at least here at your school, you have people to support you like that.
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:58.880
And the other ones that, you know, don't do participate.
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:03.119
And I don't know how many schools have services like that now, but uh, it seems like there are more and more.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:05.199
Um, and again, something I support 100%.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:10.960
Yeah, I think you had asked me earlier, and I didn't get to this point, is um like when did all of this start to shift?
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:17.760
And I think it was around 2016, I think, was the first mental health best practices was put out from the NCAA.
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:24.800
Okay, and then they recently updated it maybe in 2024, sometime within the last three-ish years.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:37.679
Um, and so in that it what's difficult is the the document is nice and it provides guidance, but it's also very broad because they're writing it for their D1s down to their D3s, right?
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:47.440
Their biggest schools to their smallest schools, and so you can't dictate to everyone that you have somebody on campus because you can't tell them what to do with their budget, right?
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:49.280
And some schools experience isn't the same.
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.599
Yeah, and some Texas is a lot different than a thousand percent.
00:35:53.760 --> 00:36:06.079
Um, but what it does say is that there has to be a clear path to care on the mental health side, and so that could be hey, you all have access to a provider at this practice in town or whatever.
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:10.480
The tricky piece is they say access to mental health services.
00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:17.599
That doesn't necessarily mean that those mental health providers all have the training and expertise like I have, right?
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:22.880
That understanding of the sport experience and the college athlete experience.
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:33.039
The classic thing that you hear from athletes is I went to the counseling center and you get any clinician that doesn't know the difference between a basketball and a football.
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:38.000
And the student athlete is sharing with them, hey, here's my schedule, this is what's going on, this is what I have going on tomorrow.
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:44.320
We're traveling here, we're doing this, we're doing that, my coach said this, and the clinicians can't handle what's coming at them.
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:47.760
And they say, Well, can you just not go to practice today?
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:51.519
And the students like, are okay, bye, right?
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.199
And so the trust is completely broken.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:55.360
Right.
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:09.119
It's like, did you not just hear what I said to you about how I'm concerned about performing and I'm a starter and I'm this and that, you know, like and so that cultural competency in this world is so important, and that's not what the guidelines say.
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:10.079
Right, right.
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:15.360
So yeah, great because it kind of pivots to the next part of the conversation that I wanted to have.
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:30.000
And I know we talked about college athletics, which some of it kind of you know lean like leans into this part, but I guess for you in your experience, there is like mental health services for the normal everyday individual versus uh the athlete.
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:45.679
So where like what differs between one and the other uh and how you would either treat or you know, like work around that with the with someone you're coming to see, you know, because I I'm assuming, I guess I don't mean to assume, you might have worked with both populations at some point.
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:46.159
Yep.
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:48.000
Uh so how is it different?
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:49.440
How does it differ between the two?
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:56.480
I'm laughing inside because one of my um colleagues says that sports psychologists are a different breed.
00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:57.599
She's like, y'all are weird.
00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:59.360
And I'm like, y'all are weird.
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:13.679
And I just think, I mean, you know the experience of being an athlete and the drive and the dedication and the just zeroing into your craft and the like we will plow through a wall for the thing that matters to us.
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:21.840
And that's not the majority of your like clinical providers, you know.
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:26.719
Um, I once had a friend say to me, like, what are you like as a therapist?
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:27.920
And I'm like, what do you mean?
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.519
Because I am intense, right?
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:41.119
And um, and so I think there's also that idea of uh like more quiet and reserved and like really soft, and that has its place and it works for some people.
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:46.239
Um, so I would say one thing I think is different is our our orientation just to the world.
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:58.800
Um, but from a from a theoretical standpoint, the clinician like goes with what makes the most sense with them from a theoretical standpoint, right?
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:02.400
So how do I explain this in like sports terms?
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:08.960
Um you know, like okay, basketball, right?
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:15.760
You're gonna have a system for your offense, and everything is gonna run through that system.
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:22.880
And you might have a player that comes in who's never been in that system before, and they're gonna have to friggin' figure it out.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:28.800
And some people aren't ever gonna fit, and so then they may like leave the team or get traded or whatever.
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:35.039
So if you think about from a from a clinical standpoint, we all have our system that we run through.
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.679
You can run any client through your theory.
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:44.159
You know, there's the how we understand them, and then there's the what we do in the room.
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:51.840
And so I pull from many different theories in the room, but my guiding framework is is what it is.
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:56.159
Um, and so that's how I understand the athlete, which is then gonna inform what I do in the room.
00:39:56.400 --> 00:40:03.119
That's the same for somebody who works with a general clinical population, um, just a sorry, a non-athlete population.
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:09.360
So I think from the work that I do, it's super dynamic.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.519
And I think not if there are any psychologists listening, I don't mean psychodynamic.
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.000
I mean like dynamic in the sense of like we're moving, right?
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:17.280
And we're going quick.
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:28.880
And um what's different, what I'd noticed from going from working with a general student population to an athlete population is they're they're thirsty and they want change.
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:40.320
And if they're making the step to come through the door, they are willing to do what you ask them to do because they also are used to running through drills, learning a skill, getting a critique, making an adjustment, and getting better.
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:44.639
So the same thing tends to show up in the therapy space, which is really freaking cool.
00:40:44.880 --> 00:41:10.559
I'm glad you said that because I I had this preconceived kind of notion about what I thought it was like with athletes in that sense, and it kind of is what you echo because athletes are so used to being like drilled and coached that if they had that trust level with someone in, you know, the mental health space, I feel like they would be more receptive to whatever you're telling them, you know, as far as guidance or just you know, practical practices to go about their day-to-day lives and stuff like that.
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:22.880
I think that it it can connect with them, um, which is why I I kind of tie that to what I said earlier about, you know, some being reluctant, because I think that with the way athletes are wired, which is very different than you know, the everyday person.
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:23.199
Sure.
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:32.559
You know, not to shade anyone, but it's just a different experience when you have to do things for your survival, you know, on the team or your own personal goals and stuff like that.
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:44.400
So I I think that me now in everyday life, still looking at most things around me as an athlete, I I I often like have to pull myself out of that to be like, hey, like so-and-so isn't thinking like that.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:56.960
So, you know, and then sometimes it comes to my competitive side of things with like the slightest thing can I can take it, like the Michael Jordan moment to where I took, you know, I took that, I took offense to that, and it drove me to, you know, want to compete in that way.
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:04.639
So I often have to pull myself back and you know come off the reins as a competitor sometimes, just because I know, like you said, it's the it's not the same experience.
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:13.840
And the things that I feel super, super passionate about, goal-wise or just like what I want to achieve, uh, may not be what someone else, you know, looks at in that way.
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:37.519
Um, and kind of goes along with one of the other things that I saw that you have, you know, done in your life or something that you were definitely into and promoting uh when on your podcast, which I did listen to a couple episodes about that, uh, but I want you to kind of touch on the high performance coaching side of you know what you do and how that kind of uh works in, I guess, what you're doing now.
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:44.000
Um, but also I guess do you offer those services to other people outside of just the athletes at your University of Delaware, correct?
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:44.800
Like the hot problem.
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:46.000
Yeah, I mean, that's the goal.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:47.119
That's the goal, right?
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:48.320
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
00:42:48.639 --> 00:43:06.800
That's something that um, yeah, I'm definitely looking into to offering because one of the things that um is really important to me is that for women particularly, that we don't hold ourselves back just because we see somebody else doing something, right?
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:13.039
And like I see too many people, too many women who have a dream and they're like, but I can't, right?
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.039
They're holding themselves back in some way.
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:24.800
And I feel like I can really connect with those women and help them make adjustments in their life with what I teach athletes, right?
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.360
Because life is a performance domain.
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:35.840
And so it really is just understanding where am I performing and shifting the lingo from the field to the kitchen, right?
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:48.400
From the what's going on with your teammates to what's going on with your kids, and really helping people get really clear on this is what I want to do with my life, and then helping them overcome the barriers that are keeping them from starting.
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.360
Life what life is a performance domain.
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:58.559
That's uh yeah, I like that, you know, as someone who again kind of looks at everything as a competition, but yeah.
00:43:58.800 --> 00:43:59.280
Yep, yep.
00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.599
Yeah.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:08.239
Um so with that you said there was one quote that you had, uh touching on the you know what you just said about coaching women in that way.
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:13.280
It was uh quiet women are always well, I forget the exact quote that you had.
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:22.880
The one on your most second most recent episode, it was quiet women are are always something about them achieving high-level things in their life.
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:24.480
I forget exactly what the quote was.
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:25.519
Gosh, I don't know.
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:29.360
I feel like there are quotables all the time, and it just comes off the top of my head.
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:30.239
Okay, yeah.
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:37.519
You said something that was uh about how quiet women don't achieve much in their life, or and something about being a disruptor, basically.
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:43.920
Uh, and how that basically is something that propels you towards whatever your goal or your, you know, your level of success is.
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:48.000
And it kind of connected with me because I consider myself that kind of person, a disruptor.
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:48.960
Disruptor, yeah.
00:44:49.039 --> 00:45:08.960
Yeah, and I do think that people who are high performers have to kind of be like that, i.e., you know, the Kobe Bryant two we have up there on the wall, like he was a person who just literally, whatever goal he had in mind was just I'm willing to do whatever it is to achieve it, whether it be yelling at my front office and saying I want to be traded to then make them make a better decision to give bring me better players so I can have a chance to compete.
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:14.320
So I just believe uh being a disruptor is like part of my purpose.
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:18.400
Yeah, uh, so it was Wait, was it Quiet Women Rarely Make History?
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:19.280
Yes, is that what it was?
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:23.039
Yes, yes, it's Quiet Women Rarely Make History, yeah, is what you is what it was.
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:24.960
And I was like, that is not a me quote.
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:26.400
That is like on bumper stickers.
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:27.440
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:28.960
So wherever it was from, I heard it.
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:31.280
I was like, yeah, that you know, that that's a good one.
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:34.400
And definitely if you're coaching women in that way, then yeah, 100%.
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:49.760
Um uh so with that, I wanted to keep the conversation around, I guess, sports and mental health and uh athletics, you know, and how it plays into the everyday life of like people who used to be in athletics, which were kind of you know echoed without what I'm saying.
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:53.760
Have you dealt with any athletes in transition?
00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:00.800
You know, from like I'm an athlete now to maybe I'm gonna be a senior and I'm not gonna continue to play sports anymore.
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:03.440
What are the next stages or steps in my life look like?
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:06.880
Uh have you had any people that you've serviced in that way?
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:08.079
Oh yeah, yeah.
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:12.159
And then the people who've had either a season or a career-ending injury, right?
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:17.760
Like what is like one minute you're playing and literally the next you're not, uh you're facing a major surgery.
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:21.119
I mean, think about the number of people who've who've torn their ACL, right?
00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:24.320
I mean, that ends your season for at least a year, right?
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:38.400
And um yeah, I think it's really it's so complicated because we're all uh let me not say complicated, um complex and it has to do like each person's journey is gonna be different.
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:47.199
And I think the thing with athletes is these are the moments when they just want me to tell them what to do, like give me the playbook, tell me the play, I'm gonna run it.
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:50.239
And sometimes I'm like, now the play is your feeling.
00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:52.400
And they're like, Doc, what are you talking about?
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:53.199
Like, what's that?
00:46:53.440 --> 00:47:01.599
And sometimes it's really sitting in it and getting quiet and going internally to find out like what's there that I haven't been attending to, right?
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:14.400
Because an injury or a break from sport or just the the natural progression graduating out is that opportunity to get really quiet and get back inside and say, Hey, what's there that maybe I haven't been attending to?
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:21.119
Where's where's a part of me that maybe like I put to the side because I've given so much focus to sport?
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:31.360
Maybe there's an artistic side in there and really trying to honor the athlete and whatever the transition is and like grieve that.
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.440
And because it really is, I mean, it it is the loss of a relationship.
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:36.960
And I talk to the athletes about that.
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:43.280
Like, you've been in a relationship with this sport for nearly your entire life, and so that relationship is shifting.
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:44.960
Doesn't mean that it has to end.
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:46.800
Like, do you want it still in your life?
00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:48.239
Could you coach?
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:54.800
Could you, you know, how could you stay in relationship with the sport differently than playing it?
00:47:54.880 --> 00:48:00.559
And sometimes they look at me like I have six heads, and then three weeks later they'll come back and they'll be like, That thing you said, that relationship.
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.800
Yeah, here's what I'm thinking now.
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:04.079
Yeah, for sure.
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:09.599
As someone who's been there, you know, personally, it's you know, one of the most trying times you can go through as an athlete.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.559
You know, absolutely my career ended by choice, I would say.
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:17.760
You know, I was you know lucky enough to walk out on my own terms, but it doesn't make it any easier, right?
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:24.480
You know, and the the way you just said it is like you've been in a relationship with this, you know, so it is kind of like grieving something when you're done.
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:31.679
Like I never even looked at it in that lens, and this is now 2019 was when I left as 2026, almost 2027.
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:48.559
So I've had a lot of time to process a lot of the things I went through as an athlete, just through my own, you know, I like to be a person who I try to pride myself on being self-aware, you know, um through therapy, like I mentioned a little bit before, but I'm also a big advocate advocate for meditation.
00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:50.400
Um, so it's one of my practices.
00:48:50.480 --> 00:49:00.480
Uh, and it goes along with uh, you know, something that you put out there um to your listeners, the the three practices, the spiritual, physical, and uh what was the third one to start your day?
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.199
Uh it was spiritual, physical, and mental.
00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:13.360
So for me, the meditation kind of is like the mental and the spiritual part, uh, just because I believe it offers me a space to kind of sit with my feelings and really process what's important to me.
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:13.840
Absolutely.
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:19.679
Um, and it definitely helped me through my transition from athletics to being an everyday person.
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:32.960
Because when I came home, and people like, you know, they know this on this podcast, when I came home, uh, I felt like I was getting into a new life uh with less experience than everybody else who was my age, you know.
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:47.519
And getting into the training space and the fitness space, uh, when I did initially come home and want to get into where I was working last as like a side gig, a side job, I was looking around and like everyone was 10 years younger than me, but knew like three to four times more than me.
00:49:47.679 --> 00:50:08.559
And that put me in a very like odd space because it it made me question like, did I waste a lot of time doing what I was doing before to then walk away from it mid-30s and then now have to figure out the rest of my life in front of me uh while still again grieving the fact that I'm stepping away from something that was such a big part of my core and still is to this day.
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:12.239
So, you know, just a very interesting time in my life.
00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:21.840
Uh, and I do believe that a lot of athletes can go through those times and not have the right support or right mentality, you know, because I either believe you have the right mentality to get through it, or you need support to get through it.
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:22.239
Absolutely.
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:28.800
Um, and then you see situations where like substance abuse is a thing, or you know, athletes who've been in all kinds of crazy situations.
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:43.519
Uh I'm not sure if you saw recently um Kyle Singler from Duke when he was he was uh I came up, he was after my era, but was seen online, you know, making comments about his relationship with Coach K and stuff not looking very well put together.
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:46.719
So it's caused a lot of people to worry about where his mental health is at.
00:50:46.880 --> 00:51:01.360
And you know, situations like that always like hit me like at home, hit me like really, really close to home just because like I feel I did pretty well in my transition, and then to see the other side of it is a little, you know, it's a it's a little sad for some guys, you know.
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:02.079
Absolutely.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:11.440
So I think the one thing that sport doesn't always do a great job at is showing the translatable skills, right?
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:17.199
Because you're so focused in on your sport, the skills that are needed for your sport, the scouting.
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:26.639
But then if you pan back, you look at how did you navigate that system, especially if you're playing a team sport and you've got new teammates every year, right?
00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:28.239
Like you know how to be a part of a team.
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:30.800
You probably stepped into leadership roles.
00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:48.159
And so where, yeah, from the fitness sense in the business standpoint, you might be 10 years behind or you know, they're younger, but you have all of this experience of being in a system and pushing yourself to the limit and succeeding at a high level when you do that facing adversity.
00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:52.400
That, like, you know, if this person misses a sale, they might crumble.
00:51:52.880 --> 00:52:11.599
And so I think we miss teaching athletes how, yeah, like you're not on a basketball court, but look at all of this and what made you who you are, and how the people that you're in the business world with or in the fitness world with, they might not have that and how it puts you to an advantage.
00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:12.639
Yeah, for sure.
00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:16.400
And I pretty much said this at one point or another through my career.
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:22.960
And I said it a not so nice way, but I said like people are soft when they get when we get into the normal work world.
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:28.800
It's like they complain about the littlest things, they are willing to quit over the smallest things or the smallest.
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:33.760
And I understand everyone's feelings are valid, but what the for perspective also matters, you know.
00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:44.239
So for me, having to run until I literally couldn't run anymore, and then I'm collapsing on the ground changes my like my lens when it looks at something like all right, now you gotta get up at 4 a.m.
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:45.920
for like three, four days in a row.
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:47.360
You know, how do you handle that?
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:51.360
Uh, this is more so the fitness space, just because we do have to wake up that early.
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:52.639
Yeah.
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:53.280
Right, right, right.
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:55.679
For the early morning crowd and no that that crew.
00:52:55.760 --> 00:53:00.960
But you know, just even other things like that, where like when your boss is yelling at you or super critical or stuff like that.
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:18.800
So how we deal with that in sport and how it prepares you to get over those kind of things in life is something that is like you take that to the bank because you're not gonna really get those experiences anywhere else, uh, but going through like the rigors and the years and years of just being and put in those kind of environments and those situations.
00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:25.440
So um, I've said this before and I say it again, like it does make you better than, you know, not better than I would say.
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:30.880
It does make you more prepared for the adversity and things like that in everyday life than certain people who don't go through those things.
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:37.360
So definitely something to highlight and definitely something to lean into as an athlete who is transitioning into just whatever, you know.
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:41.760
But I think finding the thing that you want to do is the hardest thing for athletes at that point.
00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:42.000
Sure.
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:47.440
Um, and definitely having people to support you on the mental health side can be a very, very big help.
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:53.599
And, you know, I I I appreciate people like you to kind of share that messaging because, you know, it it's tough, you know.
00:53:53.679 --> 00:54:00.880
And I know that athletes get looked at oftentimes like we just can, like you said, run through a wall, literally, and uh, you know, you got this, you'll be all right.
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:07.599
But you know, the stuff that goes on in our heads is often where people don't really put themselves in those shoes because they haven't been through it.
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:08.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:12.559
And the one thing is is we all have mental health 247, 365.
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:19.679
It's just a matter of where are we falling on the continuum from healthy to like unhealthy at any given point in our life, right?
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:23.599
So there are some people who are like, Oh, I don't have mental health, and I'm like, Well, you're breathing, you do.
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:26.000
Like you have a brain, yes, you have mental health.
00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:31.679
You just may be on that more healthy side, you're able to cope with the adversities that come, you know, come at you.
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:35.840
And so when I say that into a room of coaches, and I'm like, all of you have mental health.
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:37.199
And they look at me like I have six heads.
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.679
I'm like, trust me, you do.
00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:42.079
Solid, solid.
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:50.559
Um, so outside of your career currently, um, you are uh working on a book still, or you know, what is the process?
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:51.920
Like, how is that going?
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:53.840
Yeah, um, like tell me about it.
00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:56.719
Oh my gosh, writing a book is a whole thing.
00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:57.760
It's a whole thing.
00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:01.039
Yeah, I think I started writing it maybe three years ago.
00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:02.559
Okay, yeah.
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:08.880
And um, well, right now one of my colleagues is has offered to edit it for me.
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:14.159
And so I like did a little bit of a sprint because then his wife had a baby.
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:20.880
And so I was like, I'm gonna get this to you, and then you read it, edit it, you know, whatever, and get it to me when you can.
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:25.360
So um, yeah, I mean, it really I have always wanted to write a book.
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:29.599
And I have a friend who writes and had a publishing house at one point.
00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:35.199
I'm not sure if she's still doing it, but um, she was like, You have a book in you, and I'm like, I don't know what I want to write about.
00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:39.920
And so um we did some accountability calls just to like sit and write together.
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:58.480
And yeah, it was like three or so odd years ago, I was on a podcast interview with one of my other friends, and she like I have this theory that I teach, and she was asking me questions about it, and it got me thinking about it in ways that I hadn't before, and I was like, the book.
00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:05.039
And I thought, like, okay, this book would be a pamphlet because I could literally tell you what it's all about in like three sentences.
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:06.639
I'm like, how am I gonna write a whole book?
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:08.559
And now there's a whole book about it.
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:27.679
And so um, yeah, it's like gone through iterations and I sat down to write it basically like I was giving the um giving the talk to uh a team and I just wrote it just like I would say the things to them just to get it on paper and then would play around with it and it's like, oh, I can share a story here and I could share a story here.
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:35.119
Oh, I don't have time in a one-hour workshop to like delve into this piece, so let me unfold that into like two chapters in the book.
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:49.920
And um, you know, I went through um the last two years have been a little bit stressful, and so it was I didn't have as much emotional and cognitive space to to like go to work and then come home and edit a book.
00:56:50.000 --> 00:57:06.639
I just didn't have any brain cells left at the end of the day, and so it took a a a lot of time, but um yeah, now it's in my buddy's hands and I'm gonna see what he has to say, and um, then we'll shake it around, put some final edits on it, and hopefully it'll get out in the world in the next like six to eight months.
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:07.360
Nice.
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:13.360
Yeah, definitely we'll be checking for that when it when it comes out, and you know, best of luck on the rest of the way with that process.
00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:13.920
Thanks.
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:14.639
It is wild.
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:20.639
It is I I have a few author friends, so they've kind of told me, you know, a little bit about what it's like to write a book.
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:28.000
Uh they've also challenged me to get into writing at some point because I was also told in not the same exact words, but that I have a book in me.
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:28.400
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:33.199
Um, and I've thought about it, but again, there's just the process seems kind of daunting.
00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:42.559
And uh now I've I've been challenged by one of my author friends to to start writing some stuff down as far as what the vision for it could be.
00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:45.599
Uh so yeah, I might be actually reaching out for some help with that.
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:46.159
Seriously.
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:47.920
As someone who's been through the process.
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:59.280
Yeah, I mean, and honestly, some of what I have found is was helpful was just talking into the mic and getting the thoughts out and then put it in, let Chat GBT transcribe it for you, right?
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:00.239
Or or whatever, right?
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:07.599
Like uh because it's it's your there's something different that when we're we process differently, when it comes out of our mouth, when it comes out of our fingers.
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:25.840
And so um, yeah, you just gotta find like what's most comfortable for you to get your words out authentically and then be committed to a shitty first draft and have some people in your corner who can read it and like make it be a book.
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:31.280
I was told that exact same thing, like be prepared for the first draft of it to be terrible because that's just what it's gonna be.
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:32.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:33.840
So we'll see.
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:34.400
We'll see.
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:44.400
I have been pushed to do so, um, but I also then run a business, so now it's like trying to figure out where I can squeeze in time to then add that to my schedule.
00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:49.280
So yeah, but I I do feel like it could be something that I would want to do at some point in my life.
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:54.880
But absolutely, you know, God willing, I'm here for a long time and can fulfill that vision at some point later on.
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:55.599
But there you go.
00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:56.400
Yeah, for sure.
00:58:56.639 --> 00:58:57.039
Love it.
00:58:57.199 --> 00:58:58.559
Um, so podcasting.
00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:05.840
Um now that we are already on my podcast, uh looking ahead, looking back, excuse me, when I was looking into you before ahead of time.
00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:07.440
I didn't realize you had a podcast.
00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:11.119
Um, and then did a little bit of wormhole and just listened to a few of the episodes.
00:59:11.360 --> 00:59:13.360
Your first episode and then the last few that you did.
00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:18.000
I feel like you know what they say, you should read the first and the last page of the book kind of kind of thing.
00:59:18.079 --> 00:59:21.440
So yeah, so you got the first brand and then the second brand.
00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:22.079
Right, right.
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:24.480
So, you know, tell me about that for yourself.
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:31.840
Um and uh one, I guess, how you started that, because you have way more episodes than I have at this point in my life.
00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:43.519
Uh so it's always encouraging to see, and you were podcasting since 2021, uh, back when many people weren't, or and the industry kind of started to take off a little bit, but now you know everyone has a mic and a a podcast.
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:45.679
So I feel like a lot more watered down.
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:48.719
Uh, but when you started, like what was that for you?
00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:52.079
And you know, I guess how did it fulfill you as a person?
00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:53.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:53.360 --> 01:00:04.480
So I I think I've always had this knowing of like I want to reach more people, and I just didn't know what that meant or in what ways.
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:12.800
And I think in some ways, maybe even just how women are socialized, it was it felt kind of weird to say, like, I just want to reach people.
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:13.679
And I'm like, with what?
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.719
I don't, I don't know, but it's just always been that thing inside.
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:26.239
And so um I have been an avid like consumer of podcasts for I don't gosh, since like 2015.
01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:28.639
And I've always just been like, this is so cool.
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:38.480
And I love just listening to people sit down and like talk about TV shows or have really in-depth conversations, or someone's out there teaching you something.
01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:56.719
And so um there was a woman in this like the social media sphere that I was kind of living in at the time, and she had launched a podcast and then had like a course where she would get you through idea to launch in, I think we did it in like two months, three months, or something like that.
01:00:56.960 --> 01:01:04.559
And so it was nice because I was in this cohort of other women and we had were able to bounce ideas off and then like do guest trading and all of that.
01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:06.320
And so it started off.
01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:14.159
Um, it was initially called Beyond the Couch, um, mental health conversations without the psycho babble, because I don't like to psycho babble whatsoever.
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:18.079
Um and so it started out in that realm.
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:23.119
And then um there was something about the title.
01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:26.800
I just felt too constricted around like the mental health pieces.
01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:35.679
And I'm funny in that I don't always want my career to and like my training to be what I do in all facets of my life.
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:38.320
Like it is a part of me, it will always be a part of me.
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:40.239
It's an identity, it's how I move through the world.
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:41.920
But like, I don't know.
01:01:42.079 --> 01:01:43.760
I just didn't want it to be like that anymore.
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:46.960
And so then I rebranded it to beyond your limits.
01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:47.360
Yes.
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:58.559
Um, and so that for me felt like I could do a little bit more of that coaching, a little bit more of that teaching, kind of um push the envelope a little bit, challenge people a little bit more.
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:09.280
Um, and then what I realized when it kind of started to fizzle off is at the point that I started my podcast, I was married, um, but I was miserable.
01:02:09.440 --> 01:02:15.360
I was absolutely miserable in my relationship, and I had lost my voice.
01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:29.760
And the podcast was the place where I ran the show and I could talk about what I wanted to talk about, and there was no the feedback that was coming in about the show was all positive and was all supportive of me.
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:37.840
And so through that process, I ended up getting divorced and um my ex-wife moved out and all of that great stuff.
01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:52.159
And I was in such a better place, and then I realized like I I don't need the same, like I had my voice back, and I I didn't need the podcast in the same way, right?
01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:53.679
Like it and two things can be true.
01:02:53.840 --> 01:03:03.679
I was still on mission, but then I also wasn't grasping content ideas as quickly as I was before.
01:03:04.159 --> 01:03:06.960
Um and so I was like, I don't want to force it.
01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:18.719
And there would be weeks where I'm like, I'm supposed to drop a podcast tomorrow, and so I'd just get on the mic on a Monday night and just say some stuff into a mic, and I I wasn't fully there.
01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:24.719
And um, and so I wanted it to be authentic, and I was like, I'm just gonna pause.
01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:27.440
And I didn't like announce a pause, I just like stopped.
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:32.960
I think I stopped when I was like, hey, we're gonna do this like three episode thing, and I did one of them and then I stopped.
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:36.000
And I'm like, okay, whatever.
01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:38.320
Um, and everyone keeps asking me, like, are you gonna come back?
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:39.440
You're gonna come back, you're gonna come back.
01:03:39.519 --> 01:03:41.679
And I'm like, Yeah, you know, like I want to.
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:51.760
And then life took another turn, and again, that energy and the um just the time and energy that it takes, it wasn't there.
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:54.559
I just had nothing left in the tank at the end of the day.
01:03:55.039 --> 01:04:00.639
And what I had left, I was putting into other parts of my life that were, you know, unfolding.
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:07.280
Um, but now I have been like really like thinking about this and journaling about it.
01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:11.760
And the phrase that keeps coming back to me is built for the long haul.
01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:33.920
And so I think that is what I'm gonna rebrand and come back with is built for the long haul because I think it holds together what I was wanting to do with Beyond Your Limits and like the heart of um Beyond the Couch because it is the mental health, but it is the high performance.
01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:41.599
And really looking at like I told you before, it took me 15 years from when I learned about the field to get into the field.
01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:46.159
I trained in martial arts for what took five years to get a black belt.
01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:56.559
And I feel like we're in a time that, you know, if you and I were like, hey, we're hungry, we could literally put in an order and the food would be here by the time we're done recording.
01:04:56.719 --> 01:05:04.800
Or I just ordered some stuff off of Amazon because I'm gonna reorganize a room because my mom's moving in and like, you know, and it's gonna be here tomorrow.
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:13.760
And we just don't have to wait and simmer and wrestle and grow in the same ways that we did in the 90s, you know?
01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:25.199
And so I really want to share that story and bring people on who can talk about like, hey, yeah, you see this success that I'm having now, but what was the 10 years before it?
01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:29.519
And what's what's behind the curtain that you don't get to see?
01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:36.559
And what like what is it that really made us and those pieces of what's really beautiful about people's stories?
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:41.840
Well, I I want to encourage you and and maybe even challenge you to get that going.
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:50.800
Cause you know, uh my thing when I started to dive into your episodes, again, the last two episodes I listened to, when I finished the last one, I was like, hey, like, where was the next one?
01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:51.920
Where's the next?
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:57.280
Yeah, because you were presenting these skills and these pieces, and I'm like, this is like valuable shit, you know.
01:05:57.440 --> 01:05:59.760
And then uh it just wasn't I'm like, I wouldn't.
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:03.280
It's like the cliffhanger that you never get to see the next episode.
01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:20.719
But yeah, and I understand that completely about having the will to do it because it is like, even though, and if you record by yourself, then even more so, like you would think that it's not an exchange of energy, but it literally is you giving your energy to however many people are gonna consume it.
01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:28.719
You know, so you have to be in the right mind space and you have to be in the right, like I guess, spiritual space to kind of do it, or else it's not gonna come out right.
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:33.519
And the the feeling forced thing is part of you know the the battle that you have internally.
01:06:33.599 --> 01:06:45.039
And I've taken many breaks, not as long as where you you have, but you know, I've had last before I kind of started off again, it was like months, so I want to say maybe four or five months before I got back to it.
01:06:45.119 --> 01:07:02.559
And I was like, listen, like something's not sitting right with feeling like I need to record right now because one, I was in a point of like really trying to figure out where and when I was gonna be able to start my business uh after leaving my last career, quitting my job and going into full-time entrepreneurialism was a whole like task in itself.
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:10.559
So having to take on that challenge put me in a space where like I can't force myself to record every week just because I don't feel like I have it, you know.
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:21.199
And what you decide to give people, how you structure your episodes, like the the messaging that you want to put out, it has to come from a place to where it's fulfilling you to do it, or else it just feels like a job.
01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:33.599
And you know, uh, and I know there are people that do podcasts to get paid and hopefully would love to monetize at some point myself, but I don't want creating content to feel like a job because then it's not coming from as true a sense of creativity.
01:07:33.679 --> 01:07:34.639
It's like I have to do this.
01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:38.079
So yeah, and it you can feel it on the other side of the mic, right?
01:07:38.239 --> 01:07:41.280
When it's being forced, and that just doesn't feel good too.
01:07:41.440 --> 01:07:41.679
For sure.
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:51.039
I'm only so good at hiding, and I've had episodes sometimes where I tell people, listen, listen, I'm here for a good time, not a long time, because I got about 35 minutes of content and then I'm out because I can't.
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:58.719
I got this going on in my life, so it's something that I have to just be very, you know, conscious and self-aware of with when you record and stuff.
01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:04.239
And I feel like I've been in a good groove and a good space recently, and you know, want to definitely keep the train going as far as that goes.
01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:05.920
What's been helping you?
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:17.760
Um, I would say getting my business open was a big, big help because I kind of had to promote leading into the business opening, and it's something I talk about often on the podcast.
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:27.359
Yeah, uh, so that was helpful in me feeling like I needed to record again, but also wanted to because it was something that was exciting in my life that was like it's a big, like this is a big moment for me.
01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:27.680
Absolutely.
01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:31.039
Uh, I wanted to share it with you know the people that support and listen to the podcast.
01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:41.840
Uh but since then I do feel like, again, being an athlete and goal-driven, it's like I'm challenging myself to make sure that I'm not falling off and staying consistent with it.
01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:42.159
Sure.
01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:50.000
Uh, just because I know in the industry of podcasting, like with lack of consistency, that's where like the ebbs and flows really, really go up and down.
01:08:50.079 --> 01:09:00.960
So I've had points where I've been, I've done it for like two weeks, and then you know, I'll take like three weeks off and then you know, come back for a month straight, and you know, kind of like, all right, well, now I need another two weeks off.
01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:19.840
But finding things to keep myself like going in this way, whether it be social media and current events kind of things, or you know, just delivering messages off of what I'm going through in my own journeys as a you know athlete who to then trainer to then entrepreneur.
01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:27.359
Like, you know, I I give my listeners every part of my life just because one of my monikers, like, I'm a living example of the things to do and not to do.
01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:38.239
So if I can bump my head a million times for you to not bump your head as many times as I did, I want to share those experiences with people because I think my purpose is in, you know, definitely in what I offer now as a trainer.
01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:44.479
You know, my purpose is in helping people to grow in fitness and young athletes to grow to the next level of their athletic careers.
01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:53.199
But, you know, in my experience, I've always felt that, you know, it is it's a shame that you go through things and then don't put it out there.
01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:58.880
Uh like one of my favorite quotes in life is for in vain you have acquired wisdom if you do not impart it to others.
01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:12.880
So for me, like it is like if you're going through a bunch of stuff in your life that could either help someone get through their journey, motivate someone to get into their journey, or just you know, anything in between that, like you're kind of selling yourself short by not putting it out there, you know.
01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:17.920
And I know that comes with a lot of self-doubt and you know, what if it's gonna connect with people, what if it's not.
01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:25.600
So at this point, I'm pretty much just to the space, like within my own like confidence level, with it's like, hey, bro, just put it out, you know, yeah and see what happens.
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:27.359
And I do get good feedback from it.
01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:48.479
And, you know, the people that are watching and listening, they've said, like you said before, positive things about, you know, what I'm giving them, or again, just the ability to execute what I'm doing on the level that I am as consistently as I am, is something that I kind of take to the bank because it's kind of motivating because I know that it's hard to do what I'm doing, and I never lean away from like doing the hard things just because they're hard.
01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:49.359
You know, yeah, yeah.
01:10:49.520 --> 01:10:51.760
I mean, and look at this place, you're an all-in guy.
01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:53.760
Yeah, and I appreciate that.
01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:54.319
Yeah.
01:10:54.560 --> 01:11:05.439
I think you know, uh I appreciate you sharing because it's it's resonating with me a lot and it's like giving me like I'm excited and energized each time I think about relaunching my podcast.
01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:11.680
And I think part of what I have I have learned that the way that I think is very different.
01:11:12.319 --> 01:11:20.960
And so the things to me that are like, yeah, doesn't everybody know this are in fact the pieces that I need to share.
01:11:21.119 --> 01:11:29.760
And so I think some of what I've struggled with is like I learned a lot getting a black belt in karate in in elementary school.
01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:38.079
And so I was so young that the I wasn't necessarily having aha moments, it was just how my life was running.
01:11:38.239 --> 01:11:46.159
But now I look back and I realize oh, that piece has showed up consistently over time and has been the building blocks.
01:11:46.239 --> 01:11:58.399
And so I'm like, that's and I think that's where the built for the long haul comes from, is because so much of why I've been able to do what I do now was uh learned in that karate studio.
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:01.119
And that's the stuff I need to be sharing.
01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:03.520
And I think there's like 10 years of content right there, you know.
01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:04.239
Sure.
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:06.079
Share it, definitely, you know, yeah.
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:15.920
And like you said, the stuff that you like you don't realize what people actually need, you know, from you unless you, you know, unless someone puts it out there, and then you'll connect with the people that you can.
01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:24.079
And I always tell myself, not for everybody, but the ones that you can really connect with are the ones that are gonna be with you for the long haul, pun intended.
01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:36.800
Yeah, and I heard somebody say, like, the point of a podcast or the point of putting whatever you're gonna put out in the world is to like hard repel people and hard like bring them in because you don't want those people in your orbit.
01:12:36.880 --> 01:12:40.399
And so that's why it's like stand for something, stand on something.
01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:53.119
And you know, like I use the F-word a lot, it's in the title of my book, and so like people will stop listening to me because I say the F word too many times, and I'm like, okay, you're not my people, and I need to be okay with that.
01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:59.920
100%, you know, and I'm I said it last week um on a post that I made like circle got smaller, but goals got bigger.
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:01.359
So I love love.
01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:10.319
In that kind of way, it is a thing to invite the people that can appreciate your space into that space, and then the ones that aren't, like, listen, like fuck off.
01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:12.159
Like, literally, like this isn't for you.
01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:20.079
Yeah, so that's okay because there's something out there that might be for you, or maybe you're not a podcast person, or just maybe you like to consume different things in your life, and that's okay.
01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:31.439
But you know, the ones that are here for the things that I offer and the things that I put out there are the ones that really, really like they, they, they keep me going in a way that like makes me feel even more energized to continue the process.
01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:36.079
So yeah, you know, I think that has been super, super helpful to me to go back to your original question.
01:13:36.159 --> 01:13:41.920
It's just finding that groove, you know, and getting in that like kind of flow state to where every week you know what's gonna happen.
01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:43.279
I set my time to record.
01:13:43.359 --> 01:13:46.720
Like, even today, we're recording outside of my normal uh recording space.
01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:51.760
But when we get to my normal day this week, I'm gonna record something just because I want to stay in that mode.
01:13:52.000 --> 01:14:02.479
And then for me, it's a lot of it is just like getting reps too, because as an athlete, I'm used to shooting the ball until I can make a certain percentage, or you know, working on this skill until I can feel like I mastered it.
01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:09.039
So right now it's in a point where I know how to make all this come together and do it as well as I can right now.
01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:10.399
But how can I make it better?
01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:20.800
And the only way to make it better is to go through the little steps where you're just fucking up over and over again, or just you know, finding yourself within that space to feel confident in what you deliver uh to the highest level.
01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:32.159
So, you know, I don't even feel like I'm there yet, but I do feel like every time I get behind the mic, like you said, it gives me more opportunity to figure that out and you know, find what that is for me, you know, internally.
01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:36.800
So yeah, this makes me think of here's what you get to do when you have a PhD is you get to quote yourself.
01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:38.960
So what nice all right?
01:14:39.279 --> 01:14:40.640
I do this all the time with my athletes.
01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:42.640
I'll put a quote up on the board and then I'm like Dr.
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:43.199
Jehu.
01:14:43.760 --> 01:14:44.479
It's so funny.
01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:50.479
But the thing I say is it's the small, unsexy actions done consistently over time that gets you to the big sexy outcome, right?
01:14:50.560 --> 01:14:54.319
And so it's yeah, like you said, it's just putting those reps in and gotta get the reps in.
01:14:54.479 --> 01:15:04.560
Yeah, and not discounting, like I mean, you were telling me you spent a couple of months learning all the ins and outs of this so that you could do it well, right?
01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:14.720
Like all of those little reps and those pieces that the people on the other side don't see like specifically, but they get to experience it through the quality of what you put out.
01:15:14.800 --> 01:15:20.239
And so, and again, that's I think those are the pieces that hold people back is they don't see the behind the scenes.
01:15:20.319 --> 01:15:20.479
Right.
01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:26.000
And so when we can give it to them, that's such a gift because then it helps them see what's possible for them.
01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:28.000
Powerful, powerful for sure.
01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:28.640
Oh my gosh.
01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:33.119
Now I feel like I have to make like a public commitment to like get my podcast back out by the end of the year.
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:47.119
I wanna I want to challenge you, and in any kind of way that I can be helpful of that, then you know, I I'm willing to be a support system because you know, I'm not saying I'm the biggest guru, I'm not Joe Rogan or any people who are you know doing it to the highest level.
01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:48.479
This is legit.
01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:53.359
Yeah, but I I like I said earlier, I like to call myself the king of being a small time creator.
01:15:53.520 --> 01:16:00.800
So you know, I do it in this space and the ones that really have purpose and really have vision and messages that they want to put out there.
01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:09.279
I challenge those people to do it just because again, you're gonna connect with the people that really, really are supposed to be in that space with you, you know, or along that journey with you.
01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:17.680
So, you know, challenging you, but I'm also down to be helpful in any way I can, you know, if there's anything that you need with having way more episodes than I have in my belt.
01:16:17.840 --> 01:16:20.159
But, you know, maybe it can be an accountability thing for the city.
01:16:20.319 --> 01:16:20.640
I love it.
01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:22.159
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
01:16:22.239 --> 01:16:22.960
Because that's the thing.
01:16:23.039 --> 01:16:29.920
So my mom is moving up here, but her house isn't gonna be ready until like early, like the first of the year.
01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:30.399
Okay.
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:33.199
But her house in Virginia literally okay.
01:16:33.439 --> 01:16:35.920
This woman was like so afraid that her house wasn't gonna sell.
01:16:36.159 --> 01:16:40.800
She had two days of showings and like offers over asked.
01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:41.359
Okay.
01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:48.159
And so now she's gonna be living with me for like two and a half months in my room that's like my podcasting studio.
01:16:48.399 --> 01:16:53.520
And so in my head, I'm like, okay, I might just like sit on the floor of my closet because I don't do the video side of it.
01:16:53.680 --> 01:17:01.760
And I'm like, where can I just get good audio and just say F it let's rock and just put it start getting the reps in again?
01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:11.840
I mean, hey, if you wanna come and just get your audio in here, listen, I'm gonna make that learning curve a little bit you know, smoother for you to get back into it.
01:17:12.079 --> 01:17:12.399
Thank you.
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:13.199
I appreciate it.
01:17:13.359 --> 01:17:15.680
But that said, we definitely appreciate you coming.
01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:19.279
So hopefully, watchers, listeners have gotten a positive experience.
01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:20.960
And uh thank you to Dr.
01:17:21.119 --> 01:17:24.159
CJ, Christian J Who for coming and sticking with us today.
01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:31.119
Uh so as always, as we leave you, uh we'll tell you to stay safe mentally, physically, and spiritually in all things in between.
01:17:31.199 --> 01:17:34.560
Uh, until the next go round, but episode number eighty eight with me.
01:17:34.640 --> 01:17:35.279
And uh, Dr.
01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:36.319
CJ is out.
01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:38.000
We'll talk to you in the next go round.
01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:38.960
Peace.
00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:30.399
It's okay.
00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:32.320
I can be a person where my feet are.
00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:33.039
That's good.
00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:33.520
That was good.
00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:38.880
Have I had other people of your profession, I guess, on the podcast in the past.
00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:45.600
So I think that would be the number one, I guess, lane of industry that we've uh interviewed before.
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:48.240
Um but never anyone in your specific field.
00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:50.320
So that'd be pretty interesting.
00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.920
But um wherever you're watching from, wherever you're listening from, thanks for coming.
00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.880
Uh another episode in the books, another day above ground is a blessing.
00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:58.960
And you know how we do this thing every single time.
00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.640
We are gonna get into the warm-up segment of the podcast.
00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:06.719
As you know, we like to heat the joints up, like to get the body going, get you in a good mode.
00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:09.599
So if you're cleaning the house, turn us up to ignite levels of volumes.
00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:12.079
If you're riding in the car, do the same thing.
00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:17.120
Um today is Is it the official today's uh officially fall, right?
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:17.599
I think.
00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:20.560
Yeah, either today or in the next few days.
00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:21.040
Right.
00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:22.560
So summertime's over.
00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:27.920
We've already determined that by you know the the date of things, but you know, the weather's starting to cool down a little bit.
00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:33.120
And anytime it cools down, I like to get into my hoodie season, you know, era and bag.
00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:39.200
Um and I think that I think you're a I don't know exactly how old you are, but I assume you can appreciate a little bit of 90s hip hop.
00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:40.239
1000%.
00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:41.200
All right, great.
00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:42.400
There we go.
00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:45.920
So anytime it starts to get cold, I go right back into that mode in that bag.
00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:49.840
So as always, turn the levels up to ignite volumes, couple air horns on the way in.
00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:52.000
Kick it off with D verse warm-up.
00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:53.680
Hello, let's get it going.
00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:56.400
Oh no, my volume isn't right here.
00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:57.760
Wait a minute.
00:01:57.920 --> 00:01:59.120
There we go, y'all.
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:04.079
Different time, different place, different era.
00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:08.479
Not so long ago, it doesn't feel like so long ago for some of us.
00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:10.719
I consider myself a millennial still.
00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:15.520
I call myself the Millennial Music Wire.
00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:18.159
So, you know, I like to lean back at that era, that time.
00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:26.879
Come along with us, y'all take a vibe.
00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.759
Uh get yourself ready for a great conversation.
00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:32.560
It's been a while since I bounced a little combo off of someone else.
00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:34.479
So I'm really looking forward to that today.
00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:36.479
But you know, just vibe with people now.
00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:43.520
I put two waters out there for you.
00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.159
And I was interested to see which one you were gonna go for.
00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:52.719
Because you know some people like tap, not tap room temperature water, some people like cold water.
00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:55.919
So And then you got your Eagles water bottle too.
00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:04.719
We're gonna accept you today just because we have to, you know, but anybody that knows me on this podcast, they know that I'm a very, very competitive with my New York sports teams.
00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:10.639
And anything that is Philadelphia, New York in the last couple years has been like a hot button.
00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:11.680
Topic okay.
00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:14.960
We can we can leave that off the table for that.
00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:16.479
We can put it on the table too.
00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:20.080
We do play y'all in the next month or so, so I mean I'm looking forward to that.
00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:22.560
Listen, I let the players do their job.
00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:25.039
I just might do the fan job.
00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:25.840
That's fair.
00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:26.400
That's fair.
00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:30.479
And it's week two, so like we can't really talk about that much yet.
00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:30.719
Right.
00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:32.000
Y'all doing good right now though.
00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:33.759
Yeah, up currently while we're recording.
00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:34.479
I love it.
00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:34.960
I love it.
00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:36.240
Hopefully it stays that way.
00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:45.280
Listen, y'all, wherever you at and wherever you're listening from, we got listeners and want viewers from like all over the place in this podcast.
00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:49.919
You know, a little bit of overseas, a little bit of Asia, Europe, South America.
00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:53.360
So, you know, this one might go a little further than you may.
00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:55.759
Well, I don't know.
00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:03.599
As someone who's done it, which we'll dive into a little bit more before, like what is your I guess how big did your reach get?
00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:08.080
I like to consider myself a super small time creator, the king of the small time creators.
00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:12.719
You know, uh how how successful, I guess, was yours when you were doing it?
00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:18.240
I mean, I don't actually I couldn't even tell you the numbers right now, but like definitely stateside.
00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:21.600
And I think there were like a like a couple of people in Europe, maybe.
00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:22.160
Okay.
00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:22.720
Yeah.
00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:26.399
I still wonder how people, you know, in those spaces find podcasts.
00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:31.199
So I would love to hold some of my my listeners' viewers at that point.
00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:33.920
But I think some of it is the power of social media, right?
00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:39.519
Like if you right, you share and somebody's connected here and then they get it and they share, it's yeah.
00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:44.959
Alright, y'all, let's keep this thing going.
00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:49.199
Hopefully, you know where we're kind of leaning into today so we keep this thing super 90s.
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.839
One of my favorite art rap groups of all time.
00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.360
Ooh, messed up.
00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:58.639
My DJing skills ain't exactly on point today.
00:04:58.959 --> 00:04:59.920
Couple air horns.
00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.399
If you're not up just yet, wake up the energy.
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:04.480
Stay with us as we warm this thing up.
00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:09.600
You know, the pain in my knee just started to kind of dissipate a little bit as I get a little closer to game time.
00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:10.480
So stay with us.
00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:12.240
Little outcast in the building.
00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.040
Oh natural black game.
00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:18.639
No second.
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:21.600
Well, it's the MI Cricket.
00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:22.959
Ain't no one better.
00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:27.439
And when I'm on the microphone, you best away your sweater, cause I'm cooler than a polar bear's toenails.
00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:28.879
Oh, then you go again.
00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:31.839
Corners like I was a curve.
00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:34.959
I struck a nerve, and now you about to say that something flagged slur.
00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.360
If I heard that's not what you want, but what you pay rent.
00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:38.720
Then I heard it's not what you make.
00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:40.959
But how much you think you got me fit that elbows?
00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:42.639
Amongst other things, but I'm not worried.
00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.120
Cause when we step up in the party like I'm out to stir it.
00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:48.319
So what is your fucking side box and your stack of nickels, it tickles.
00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:49.680
You about to be like Mr.
00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:50.079
Fickle.
00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:09.199
If you remember this one, if you know this one singing word for word, if everybody let me make it stay okay.
00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:13.120
Those of us 40 and up, those of us 50 and up, maybe mid 30s.
00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:18.240
I forget exactly what a millennial thing cuts off at, but we don't we like to leave it to those people.
00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:20.480
If you're too young, go act your parents about it.
00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:28.800
If not, I will be just the future of the world depends on.
00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:31.360
If or if not the child race, gon' have that nigga syndrome.
00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:33.920
I will it know to beat the arts regardless of its skin tone.
00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:36.240
I will feel that it's the tune and it just might get picked on.
00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:38.720
I will give a fuck about what other play and get gone.
00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:41.199
The alienators cut them different, keep your hands to the sky.
00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:43.680
Like sound of blackness when I practice, when I preach it, don't lie.
00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:46.079
I'll be the maker and the maker of the beast of my pop.
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:48.639
Now break a breaker to the phone, can I get some reply?
00:06:51.680 --> 00:07:01.439
So given all the places you like lived in your lifetime, someone who's somewhat traveled, like I guess musically in your younger days, what were your favorites?
00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:02.480
Like what was your thing?
00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:12.639
I mean, so here's the thing with me is I appreciate music for what it is, but I'm like, if you asked me to name artists and songs, I wouldn't be able to do it.
00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:14.720
That's fair.
00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.439
But I would say, I mean, I always go back to like 90s typical.
00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:20.160
Uh-huh.
00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:21.600
Always frustrated and now.
00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:31.439
I know some of the people we are frequented around now might not, you know, appreciate our perspectives on it, but they really don't make it like they used to.
00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:36.079
Keep it going with a job.
00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:37.120
We're gonna get to this thing in a moment.
00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:40.160
Well, slow walk the dog, it ain't game time just yet.
00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:48.959
So I'm ready for war.
00:07:58.639 --> 00:07:59.439
Let's get it going, y'all.
00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:03.680
We got one more for y'all as we keep this thing rolling towards our intro.
00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:05.839
One of my favorite artists of all time.
00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:10.639
And if you didn't know, this is not.
00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:17.680
Thank you for the you know, you feel warmed up with the rest of the listeners with us.
00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:29.519
I excel, death, bell.
00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:32.240
Don't make us contact that I attract my tell.
00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.440
Oh my check is like a depth that it's like a trap by XL.
00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:44.480
Like a damn like a comment on the L and I'm a check and hit the upper like a comment face.
00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.639
So he's dressed like my friend and extended.
00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:06.159
80s, 90s, 2000s.
00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.039
Come along with us, table it's a little longer.
00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:10.000
We'll be there in a moment.
00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.919
Speaking of secure, do you see the kills like catching a flag right now?
00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:40.879
All over the internet.
00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:47.519
Not to make it political or anything like that, but he was seen getting a honorary, I think, FBI.
00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:50.960
Like, you know, like a honorary doctor, honorary this thing.
00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:57.200
He was like an honorary F BBI agent, and he was teamed with Cat Spattel, the director of the FBI recently.
00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:57.600
Okay.
00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:10.559
One because Jack likes to like it's not the first time he's been like honorary law enforcement, so it's like, why do you want to keep like playing a cop?
00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:15.279
But it's also a person who's played multiple things in his life, like, outside of being an athlete.
00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:24.000
I don't remember if you know the uh did movies of Shazam, that amazing piece of content.
00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:27.919
And then they got the other one where it's like a superhero, but I forget the name of it.
00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:39.039
But Zach has always been like uh, I guess uh bigger than just the the game kind of person, but yeah, he hit up the internet with that one recently, so I'm gonna have to look that up.
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:39.840
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:41.759
Very interesting conversation that's game.
00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:45.919
I don't know how into the social media thing you are, but people are pretty angry at Zach right now.
00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:47.279
I can understand that.
00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:48.480
I can understand it.
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:54.240
Is that like something that they do, like honorary FBI, or is that like they're doing?
00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:56.879
You know, I think it's maybe something that they're doing.
00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:57.279
Uh-huh.
00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:59.919
Them being, you know, to whom it may apply.
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:00.480
Uh-huh.
00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.559
Yeah, making choices.
00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:08.080
Well, once again, wherever you are, wherever you're listening from, thanks for coming to check us out as we warm this thing up.
00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:09.600
Body feels good now.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:12.320
We've settled into the the the competition ahead of us.
00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:13.919
Not that this is a competition or anything.
00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:14.799
I got you, I got you.
00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:19.200
Uh, so as we intro this thing, as always, one more time, we are back for another audio occasion.
00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:22.879
It is the podcast for self-starters and those willing to make the most out of any situation.
00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:24.720
The EFS podcast is back.
00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:29.360
Uh, and as we kick off, we got a little bit of lead-in audio for you today.
00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:31.600
Hopefully, I lost it again.
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:36.159
This always happens to me when I do this, but I'm a little bit quicker at getting it back now.
00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:42.480
Um today's audio is gonna come from a person who is on the collegiate level.
00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:59.519
You know, we'll talk about our guests here in a moment, a little more specifically, but says some very powerful things in the media, and it kind of changed some of my perspective on some of the NIL comments I made, which I still feel like, and I'm not willing to completely die on that just yet, but this young man, uh, someone who's a little bit closer to our region, too.
00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:03.759
I don't know if you saw this one from um Penn State um a player, but here it goes.
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:08.720
It's a big opportunity, you know.
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:10.080
My parents still struggling.
00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:11.759
You know, I'm broke, you know.
00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:19.840
So while everybody else still trying to buy their next pendant or buy their next car, I'm really just trying to fill in all the holes that I have back at home.
00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:33.679
Understanding the platform that I'm having, and just seeing all of that stuff and like understanding how far I came, I really try to take advantage and um take full advantage in the opportunity that I can, like I said, with the platform.
00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:35.200
Because I come from none.
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.559
When I go home, I'm not even a football player, I'm still a son.
00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:43.919
So everything that I gotta do beforehand and afterhand, I gotta do it based off my parents.
00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:45.919
That football stuff is out the door.
00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:52.480
So, you know, for the opportunity that I gotten with the NIO era and the great coaching staff and all that, I'm thankful for that.
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:57.679
And that is that coming from Ciale to uh Pocky.
00:12:57.759 --> 00:12:59.519
Sorry if I butchered your name on that one.
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:06.320
Uh, but college football athlete for Penn State sharing his perspective about the you know opportunity he is presented with.
00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:12.639
Uh so as always, as we get this thing going, get my intro music up, let my theme music run.
00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:17.279
We got one, two, three, four, an abundance of air horns on the way in.
00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:22.879
Get yourself ready for some interesting conversation today.
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:26.000
Very happy to be back in the the spot with someone else.
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:32.080
Um, but as always, if you made it to the audio slash visual occasion, please do not forget to like, comment, share, and subscribe.
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:33.519
It is the EFS Podcast.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.600
We are back for episode number 88 with your boy, the man, the myth, the legend, Mr.
00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.960
1%, 2 times, Mr.
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:39.200
D.
00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:39.600
Burke.
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:42.480
Um, and very happy to be in the house with our guest today.
00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:51.759
Uh, we'll go official introductors in a moment, but you know, a big round of applause for coming to hang out with me for a little bit and enjoy some very interesting conversation.
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:52.799
We got Dr.
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:53.600
Dr.
00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:54.960
CJ, would you call it?
00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:55.600
Dr.
00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:57.120
You know, officially Dr.
00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:04.159
Christine J, who will get into a little bit more about how we met each other uh momentarily, but as we fade out to Steam music, how are you doing?
00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:05.120
How are you feeling?
00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:06.559
You know, just welcome.
00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:07.360
Welcome.
00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:10.879
I'm just I've told you this before we started recording, but this setup is legit.
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.480
I thank you.
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:18.320
I, you know, put a lot of hard work into us, and I do appreciate when people can kind of appreciate that, you know, upon entry.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:23.120
So yeah, yeah, it's been a very long, long process again to this point.
00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:26.240
So, you know, once again, I appreciate you coming to kick it and hang out with us.
00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:27.279
Yeah, well, thanks for having me.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:28.080
Yeah, 100%.
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:33.440
Uh so as we start this thing off, uh, we will get into you.
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:39.200
Um and I want you to kind of go over your background, your you know, your path in life to where you're currently at.
00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.759
Uh first off, your current, you know, role and your current position.
00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:43.120
Uh so what do you do?
00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.639
And uh we'll dive more into why that's important to us here on the podcast in a moment.
00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:51.039
Yeah, so um I'm a clinical sports psychologist, so I'm over at the University of Delaware.
00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.039
I've been there for about seven years.
00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.639
Um, how I got here?
00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:57.519
Yeah, sure.
00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.480
You know, like tell us what, you know, got you into that role.
00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:04.080
Uh how long have you been in the you know professional psychology?
00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:09.679
Um and uh what kind of you know, what what did where did that spark for you at what point in life?
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:10.720
Sure, sure.
00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:13.679
So I have been an athlete my entire life.
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:15.200
Started with dance.
00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:21.519
Um when we moved to New York, I love telling this story because my mom my mom had all the feels about it.
00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:24.159
I apparently was a really, really good dancer.
00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:29.600
And so when we moved to New York, my mom had made a promise to my dance teachers to keep me in the studio.
00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:35.120
And so we moved to um we moved to Virginia and my brother wanted to take karate.
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:36.720
And he was like, really cool.
00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:37.440
I want to do it too.
00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:39.840
And my mom looked at me and she's like, But I promised your teachers.
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.159
Six-year-old me was like, I don't care.
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.080
I wanna take karate like this.
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:44.960
Sounds really cool.
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:45.200
Right.
00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:51.200
So trained in martial arts, tested for my black belt in the fifth grade, was the first female to get my black belt from that studio.
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.919
And then um shifted gears and soccer became my main focus.
00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:56.320
Okay.
00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:01.440
Um so played soccer year-round, and then in the summers I would dive at the pool.
00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:16.159
I wasn't I didn't like swimming, you know, the traditional swimming, but I fell in love with the board and taught myself by watching the practices and I would like listen to how the coach was telling them how to do these dives, and I just started doing it, and then they were like, Why are you not competing?
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:20.000
And so long story short, competed for about four or five years.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.159
Um did really well.
00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:27.120
Um, and then went to college, played uh division three soccer.
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.159
Um, yeah, soccer was my main thing, black belt and karate.
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:35.279
So I like to say I'm a psychological ninja because I have a black belt karate and a PhD in psychology.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:43.759
Um I didn't really uh know like what psychology was, but that's what I went to school to study.
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:54.639
So majored in psychology, minored in studio art, and the summer before my junior year of college, I discovered the field of sports psychology just randomly on the internet.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:58.879
I don't know what I was doing, uh, but that set my path.
00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.360
I took two years off after undergrad.
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:07.599
Um, mostly I'm just gonna be real, mostly I partied and had a good time because I was very studious in college.
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.440
Yes, yes.
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:16.160
I didn't really start partying until my junior year of college, so I had like two years to make up on.
00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:23.680
So um then I went and did uh my master's in kinesiology with a sports and exercise psychology concentration.
00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:24.079
Okay.
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:36.079
And when I was there doing the performance work, when I was meeting with athletes, I found myself more drawn towards the life elements that were contributing to whatever was showing up in their sport.
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:47.599
And so I made the decision to apply to counseling psychology programs and got accepted to the University of Memphis, and that's where I went, spent five years there.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.720
And yeah, I spent seven years in grad school because it was a pretty freaking long time.
00:17:52.960 --> 00:18:12.960
And then got um just a general college counseling, like a clinician job out of my degree, got licensed, all of that, and then I had this moment where I had to like check myself and say, Hey, you got into this field to do sports, and you're just you're kinda dabbling and like, yeah, you're getting a paycheck, but you're miserable.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.839
I did not enjoy where I was working.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:26.160
And so I am a big affirmation person, and the first affirmation that year it was like I think I put them on my wrote all these down in January, I think.
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.160
And the first one was I'm the head sports psychologist at a division one university.
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.440
Nine months later, I got the job at Delaware.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.240
And moved there four months before the pandemic.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:40.720
Okay, and have been building it ever since.
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:48.400
So from the point of learning about the field to when I got my job as a sports psychologist was 15 years.
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:49.680
Okay, nice.
00:18:49.839 --> 00:19:00.960
Cause I was gonna say, off of everything that you were just speaking about, like when did because I'm a college athlete or was at one point in my life, and you know, uh these people who follow this podcast definitely know that.
00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:02.880
Um we talked about it enough on here.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:09.200
Uh, but I feel like those that industry wasn't very like prevalent back when I was in college.
00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:09.599
Right.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:16.559
Like it was just like practice, do your homework, and whatever else happens in between, we'll make sure we check on you if necessary.
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:31.839
So when did it become more like of a focus for schools to offer like mental health services and just generally have that kind of support for athletes, you know, which we'll dive more into what UD is doing in a second, but like when did that kind of start or when did that shift uh happen?
00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:42.480
Yeah, so when I was in my master's program, my advisor or the one who was training me on that side of the things, um, said that we were third generation in the field.
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:43.039
Okay.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.680
So the field is still very, very young.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.880
So the um in the American Psychological Association, we have different divisions.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:54.960
So Division 47 is the Society for Sport Exercise and Performance Psychology.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:01.359
That's the I sit on the board, I'm actually the president-elect right now of that society.
00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.559
But we just celebrated our 40th anniversary.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:08.640
So the field is like basically as old as I am.
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:25.680
Um and so yeah, I and I always say if I if sports psychology had been a thing and I had access to someone doing what I do, I don't know if I would be in the field because I might have had a different athletic path, right?
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.799
And who knows where that no regrets, right?
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:42.880
Like I loved my life, I loved college and all of that, but I do sometimes wonder there were some some places where I could have competed at a higher level, but my mind was holding me back, and so yeah.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:50.000
So that's what like the majority of the people our age that I talked to, they're like, Man, if I only had you, and I'm like, I know, if I only had me too.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:50.960
No, for sure.
00:20:51.119 --> 00:21:00.400
You know, I look back at some of my times in college and I I think about like I you probably needed some support or some help then when you were going through what you were going through mentally at that time.
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:05.359
So uh I'm a big, you know, proponent and advocate of mental health and athletes.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:13.359
So for me, when we first connected, which was just by happenstance when I was doing an event, uh somewhere you were are you still a member there?
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:13.920
I am.
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:14.559
All right, great.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:21.519
We can shout them out because my girlfriend is the one with the the head of operations for her ownership group uh at restore hyperwellness.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.599
So they that was where we first met.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:30.640
And then, you know, when we when I asked you what you did and you immediately told me what it was, it was like, okay, I have to talk to you at some point.
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:40.079
Just because, you know, my own journey with sports as an athlete and just again the mental health struggles that all athletes can kind of go through is something that interests me.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:54.559
Um so it even more so interests me that in your current role with the University of Delaware, you are doing so well that UD is ranked the number two uh in the nation for I guess the exact category, I want to say it correctly, with number two in the nation for what?
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.759
For mental health support services to the athletes, I think this organization it's like.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:11.359
I because I looked into it last year when it first came out, and I think it's some sort of organization that student athletes are members of, and then they survey their membership.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:19.920
And our student, so it's the piece that's really cool is it's our students that are sharing that we have really great resources.
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:21.759
I have no idea what the questions are.
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:27.039
Um, but yeah, the fact that they see it and two years in a row, we've been in the top 10.
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:28.640
Okay, nice, nice.
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:34.079
Yeah, so that means you guys are doing a really, really good job of keeping your athletes in a good space mentally, you know.
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:41.039
Um, so talk about what that looks like for you on a, I guess, a day-to-day basis or weekly basis, whatever.
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.359
Like how many athletes are you in front of?
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:49.680
Uh, and what kind of issues or maybe not issues, what kind of things, what kind of conversations are you having with them?
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.720
Uh, what kind of services are set up for them in that lane?
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:54.079
Yeah, absolutely.
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:59.440
So when I started at Delaware, it was just me for 600 student athletes.
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:00.240
Yikes.
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:01.440
Oh, yeah.
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:03.920
And then that thing called the pandemic happens.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:05.039
As well, right.
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:05.519
Yeah.
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:09.440
I mean, it just like that is that is not the way to do it.
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.160
Like one person for 600 is a really poor ratio.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:17.200
Um, but now there are three of us um full-time for our student athletes.
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:19.359
I'm more in an administrative role at this point.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:26.640
So I have two staff members, full-time staff members, licensed mental health providers who also have a specialization in sports psychology.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.400
Because we do the mental health, we do the performance and the blend.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:31.920
Um yeah.
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:38.000
So a typical week, um, I tell my team, you know, 20 to 25 clinical hours.
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:45.039
And that can be that one-to-one in the office with the student athletes, but then it's also being out in the environment.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:53.759
So it might be attending practices, having consultations with coaches, but also being in front of the teams delivering mental performance programming.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:58.559
And so one day you could have, say, six clients coming in one-on-one.
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:06.960
And then the next day it could be a coach consultation, a couple of staff meetings, and going out to practice, and then a game in the evening.
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:12.880
And when we're at games, it just really depends on the coaching staff and our level of involvement with the teams.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:14.960
For some of them, we're on the sidelines.
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:16.880
For some of them, we're in the locker room.
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:20.079
Um, some of them the coaches are consulting us at halftime.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:24.720
It just really depends on one, the coach's philosophy and two, what they need.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:26.720
And three, how integrated are we?
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:31.839
So the coaches are the ones that are trying to like integrate you, like you just said, into what they're doing.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:43.200
Like, and are they the ones that make the decision about who gets to see the athlete when, or is it a place where the athlete has an open line of communication to you guys and then can say, hey, like I'm really like bugging out this week.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:45.680
I got finals, I got, you know, this and that on my plate.
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:47.200
Like, how exactly does that work?
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:49.440
Yeah, so we don't do any mandated care.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.240
Um that's yeah, we just don't do it.
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.079
So the student athletes have to reach out and ask for appointments.
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:56.480
Okay.
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.519
Um, they can also, like when we're in the space, we're working.
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:06.880
You know, one of the joys is we get to watch sports as part of our job, but we also are there um to support them.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.799
And so I just tell them, hey, we're always working.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.880
So if you need something in the middle of practice, like come over and we can have a conversation.
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:19.440
Um, so yeah, they come in, but our coaches also can submit information to us and let us know, hey, this is what we're seeing.
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:22.880
Um, we have a form that all of the support staff can fill out.
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:32.960
And so if a coach sends us something about an athlete or um the academics are seeing something and then the athletic trainer is seeing something, then we're gonna reach out, right?
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:34.480
And be like, hey, what's going on?
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:36.000
Do you need something?
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:47.279
Um yeah, so it really is driven by the athlete because you know, you have to be wanting to engage in change and be willing to do the work, um, or it's not gonna not gonna work right.
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.359
Right as anything in that field.
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:56.319
Do you feel a lot of athletes are like reluctant to kind of seek out those services, or like what is your, you know, feeling?
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:02.559
Because my thought is that mental health is the awareness of it is like at an all-time high from where it used to be, you know.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:13.680
So now I feel like, and even more so for what I'm understanding about this generation of athletes, is they are usually more um open about the fact that they're dealing with something uh than we might have been in my generation.
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:16.240
But I know that you know, where there's one, there's still the other.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:26.160
So I guess how often do you feel like there's pushback from athletes about the mental health services or versus the ones that are like all in, like, hey, like I do need help with this, so you know, please step in, you know.
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:26.880
Sure, sure.
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:31.920
I mean, there are some that when you're walking through the facilities, they're like, Hey, Doc Jay Hugh, I'll see you at two.
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:33.200
And I'm like, Okay, cool, cool.
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:33.519
Thanks.
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:43.839
You know, like there was one day I was walking through our um Whitney Athletics Center, and I'm going up the stairs and I pass one athlete, and they're like, Hey, that thing we talked about, and I'm like, Yeah, yeah, okay, cool.
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:45.039
You know, we're like out in public.
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.559
And then somebody's like yelling at me from across the way, J Hugh, I need to schedule with you.
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:49.759
And I'm like, you know how to find me.
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:51.039
And then someone's like, I'll see you at two.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:52.559
It's just like, okay.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.839
But I I will say, you know, women are more likely to seek help than men.
00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:58.319
Always.
00:26:58.559 --> 00:26:59.359
We know that, right?
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:01.759
And it doesn't change based off of identities.
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:07.599
Um, and so we do like the majority of our individual clients are female.
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:12.240
Um, the men that come through tend to come through on a performance.
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:14.799
Um, like they'll say performance is the thing.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:21.200
And then when they get in the room and the trust is there, then it's hey, here's all of the life pieces.
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:30.960
Um yeah, I mean, uh, really it's uh like the differentiation is from a gender standpoint for the most part.
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:32.480
Um, I understand.
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:44.000
And I've been one on here that many, many times have spoken about, you know, men's health men's mental health and awareness around that and the fact that guys are, you know, a lot more reluctant to seek that out, you know.
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:51.519
And as someone who's been in therapy, I'm not currently, but you know, at a certain point in my life, uh I was for a decent amount of time.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:51.759
Yeah.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:53.839
Um, and I I support it.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:28:00.559
So I do know that the the male and definitely the male athletes could have a little more pushback, but I was just curious to see, you know, what that's like.
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:01.039
Yeah.
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:03.839
And I think I wouldn't necessarily say that they have pushback.
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:06.720
I think it's still like it's just taboo.
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:19.039
And there are some sports that like mental performance, even the mental performance side for some is taboo, but there are some sports like tennis, golf, like mental performance has been a staple for them.
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:25.039
And so they are, I would say, less reluctant to come through the door and then it opens up.
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:32.160
But I would say a a um differentiating factor is the support staff and particularly the head coach.
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:54.319
If the head coach is open and welcomes us in and engages in the dialogue, is in the room when we're doing the sessions and they're asking questions and they're reinforcing what we do outside of the time that they're with us, then that's when I start to see more of the athletes who like traditionally wouldn't come through, then they start to show up.
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:54.880
Nice.
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:55.279
Yeah.
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:55.759
Nice.
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:57.680
Same on the women's side, right?
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:02.640
Because there are some there are some female coaches out there that I'm like, do you have feelings?
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:04.319
And they think they don't.
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.079
You see it in their team.
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:07.279
Fair enough.
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:07.519
Yeah.
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:08.480
Fair enough.
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:20.000
Um, so along the lines of, you know, still what we're talking about in the college athletics, um, uh, wanted to kind of move the conversation forward just because, you know, my generation versus where we're at now uh is different.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:27.519
And, you know, coming off of the leading audio that we had with the young gentleman who's, you know, uh he's an eighth-year uh football player.
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:27.920
Yeah.
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:30.400
So, you know, one of those people who stretched it out.
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:31.759
Yeah, not anymore.
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.799
Not anymore with the age-based eligibility that just came out.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:30:04.480
So I did, I was, I would say I'm a fan of that rule coming out because my perspective has always been like that, and again, these people know that when you don't cap your eligibility in college, it kind of slows things up for the next generation behind you, which is the young athletes coming from middle school to high school to then college, like the pathways look a little bit different now just because they're giving athletes so many years in college that you know, kind of uh like it's a trickle-down effect, and I think has kind of soured the game in certain ways.
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:04.880
Sure.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:14.000
Uh, but do you see any kind of a, you know, I guess trickle-down effect into like the mental health side of it with a new uh NIL?
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:23.119
Well, now we're kind of fixing things, but where things have been at with the NIL era um and players uh feeling so easy to jump around from school to school.
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:23.359
Yeah.
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:33.519
Like how has that kind of played into what you do, or have you seen any kind of again trickle-down effect into that part of it um with you know where things were at and kind of maybe rectifying a little bit now?
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:43.839
Yeah, well, I think there's two things at play right now is one of it is the students in college and coming to college now are COVID era kids.
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:44.319
Right.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:49.279
And so from a developmental standpoint, there's an impact there.
00:30:49.680 --> 00:31:06.400
And then you bring the NIL pieces in, and you've got people who developmentally and socially delayed, like don't know how to send emails and don't know how to like follow up appropriately that you would expect um when you're in like that business setting.
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.240
And I mean, college sport is a business now, I guess it always has been.
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:25.839
Um, so you've got those pieces, and then you're asking them to make humongous decisions in a landscape that is still very much unknown with parents who didn't have to go through that landscape, even if they were an athlete themselves.
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.200
And so people are getting really, really bad advice.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.839
They're making decisions and being influenced by other people.
00:31:34.160 --> 00:32:00.160
Um, and then yeah, I think when you when you jump around, you don't build resilience because if you're like, fuck you, coach, like you didn't play me or and you think you're a superstar when really like maybe you did deserve to be on the bench, or you weren't putting in the effort and you weren't developing yourself, but you've got people from your past and your stat line from high school hyping you up when it's like, no, sweetheart, you're at a different level now.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:09.680
And so I don't think that we're building resilience and grit and the like stick to itiveness when we can just say, I'm gonna go get a bag somewhere else.
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:19.440
And then these people are giving them deals off of, you know, previous stat lines and they don't know if they're a cancer in the locker room or you know what their work ethic is like.
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:23.440
And um, that's not for everyone, but that's what I tend to see.
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:29.759
Like now the coaches are wising up to it and when they're like, you're trying to come here as your third and fourth school.
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:34.880
Like, we have some coaches not even touching it anymore because they've done it and it has not turned out well.
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:35.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:40.000
And interesting that coaches are kind of hipping themselves to it now.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:53.359
Um, but have you, I guess off of what you just said, have you ever had that kind of conversation with any athlete who may be thinking, like, hey, I want to get out of here and you've made them realize that, you know, be where your feet are, like you said a little bit earlier.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.160
Um, has that ever happened in your career?
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:01.680
Um, yeah, I mean, we talk to athletes all the time about is this the right place for me?
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:04.720
And then we break down all the different pieces, right?
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.279
Like, what were you expecting when you came into this?
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.000
And were your expectations met or unmet?
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:11.119
And in what regard?
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.720
And for some people, it's hey, I actually need to move down a level.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:22.720
Because part of what's happened like with Delaware is we went from F um FCS to FBS in the last year.
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:30.240
And so all almost we're in Conference USA now, and so not all of our um sports are sponsored by Conference USA.
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:43.200
So we have a chunk of them in C USA and then others in various, but like for our RevGen sports, they're in a whole different they're playing against different, they were recruited to play in this one league, and then now they're playing against big people.
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:50.880
Like I remember some of our basketball players telling me, like, I was so glad I was never gonna have to see that woman again because she was like a brick wall and there wasn't anything I could do.
00:33:51.039 --> 00:34:00.799
And it's just like that that adjustment to the level of play, and then what does that do again on your expectations of what you thought you were coming in for and what you're actually getting?
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:06.960
Um I think, yeah, I mean, we do have conversations about like, is the grass greener on the other side?
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:11.599
And then it for me, it always comes back to what are your values and what are your goals?
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:18.400
And if you left your college experience and didn't have access to X, Y, or Z, like how would that feel?
00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:27.280
And just really try to ground them in what truly matters to them because the shiny stuff is really enticing, but but it's it can also be like a drug.
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:28.559
Yeah, for sure.
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:29.360
For sure.
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:50.159
It gave me some things to think about, some interesting perspective that I didn't really realize with athletes, especially with the whole COVID era thing that often did not factor in how that changed kids and people who were developing themselves around that time and then throw them into college, with then, you know, now millions and millions of dollars getting thrown around and put in their faces.
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:56.639
So yeah, it is a tricky time, and definitely good that at least here at your school, you have people to support you like that.
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:58.880
And the other ones that, you know, don't do participate.
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:03.119
And I don't know how many schools have services like that now, but uh, it seems like there are more and more.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:05.199
Um, and again, something I support 100%.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:10.960
Yeah, I think you had asked me earlier, and I didn't get to this point, is um like when did all of this start to shift?
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:17.760
And I think it was around 2016, I think, was the first mental health best practices was put out from the NCAA.
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:24.800
Okay, and then they recently updated it maybe in 2024, sometime within the last three-ish years.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:37.679
Um, and so in that it what's difficult is the the document is nice and it provides guidance, but it's also very broad because they're writing it for their D1s down to their D3s, right?
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:47.440
Their biggest schools to their smallest schools, and so you can't dictate to everyone that you have somebody on campus because you can't tell them what to do with their budget, right?
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:49.280
And some schools experience isn't the same.
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.599
Yeah, and some Texas is a lot different than a thousand percent.
00:35:53.760 --> 00:36:06.079
Um, but what it does say is that there has to be a clear path to care on the mental health side, and so that could be hey, you all have access to a provider at this practice in town or whatever.
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:10.480
The tricky piece is they say access to mental health services.
00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:17.599
That doesn't necessarily mean that those mental health providers all have the training and expertise like I have, right?
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:22.880
That understanding of the sport experience and the college athlete experience.
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:33.039
The classic thing that you hear from athletes is I went to the counseling center and you get any clinician that doesn't know the difference between a basketball and a football.
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:38.000
And the student athlete is sharing with them, hey, here's my schedule, this is what's going on, this is what I have going on tomorrow.
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:44.320
We're traveling here, we're doing this, we're doing that, my coach said this, and the clinicians can't handle what's coming at them.
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:47.760
And they say, Well, can you just not go to practice today?
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:51.519
And the students like, are okay, bye, right?
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.199
And so the trust is completely broken.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:55.360
Right.
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:09.119
It's like, did you not just hear what I said to you about how I'm concerned about performing and I'm a starter and I'm this and that, you know, like and so that cultural competency in this world is so important, and that's not what the guidelines say.
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:10.079
Right, right.
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:15.360
So yeah, great because it kind of pivots to the next part of the conversation that I wanted to have.
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:30.000
And I know we talked about college athletics, which some of it kind of you know lean like leans into this part, but I guess for you in your experience, there is like mental health services for the normal everyday individual versus uh the athlete.
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:45.679
So where like what differs between one and the other uh and how you would either treat or you know, like work around that with the with someone you're coming to see, you know, because I I'm assuming, I guess I don't mean to assume, you might have worked with both populations at some point.
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:46.159
Yep.
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:48.000
Uh so how is it different?
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:49.440
How does it differ between the two?
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:56.480
I'm laughing inside because one of my um colleagues says that sports psychologists are a different breed.
00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:57.599
She's like, y'all are weird.
00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:59.360
And I'm like, y'all are weird.
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:13.679
And I just think, I mean, you know the experience of being an athlete and the drive and the dedication and the just zeroing into your craft and the like we will plow through a wall for the thing that matters to us.
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:21.840
And that's not the majority of your like clinical providers, you know.
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:26.719
Um, I once had a friend say to me, like, what are you like as a therapist?
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:27.920
And I'm like, what do you mean?
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.519
Because I am intense, right?
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:41.119
And um, and so I think there's also that idea of uh like more quiet and reserved and like really soft, and that has its place and it works for some people.
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:46.239
Um, so I would say one thing I think is different is our our orientation just to the world.
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:58.800
Um, but from a from a theoretical standpoint, the clinician like goes with what makes the most sense with them from a theoretical standpoint, right?
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:02.400
So how do I explain this in like sports terms?
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:08.960
Um you know, like okay, basketball, right?
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:15.760
You're gonna have a system for your offense, and everything is gonna run through that system.
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:22.880
And you might have a player that comes in who's never been in that system before, and they're gonna have to friggin' figure it out.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:28.800
And some people aren't ever gonna fit, and so then they may like leave the team or get traded or whatever.
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:35.039
So if you think about from a from a clinical standpoint, we all have our system that we run through.
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.679
You can run any client through your theory.
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:44.159
You know, there's the how we understand them, and then there's the what we do in the room.
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:51.840
And so I pull from many different theories in the room, but my guiding framework is is what it is.
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:56.159
Um, and so that's how I understand the athlete, which is then gonna inform what I do in the room.
00:39:56.400 --> 00:40:03.119
That's the same for somebody who works with a general clinical population, um, just a sorry, a non-athlete population.
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:09.360
So I think from the work that I do, it's super dynamic.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.519
And I think not if there are any psychologists listening, I don't mean psychodynamic.
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.000
I mean like dynamic in the sense of like we're moving, right?
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:17.280
And we're going quick.
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:28.880
And um what's different, what I'd noticed from going from working with a general student population to an athlete population is they're they're thirsty and they want change.
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:40.320
And if they're making the step to come through the door, they are willing to do what you ask them to do because they also are used to running through drills, learning a skill, getting a critique, making an adjustment, and getting better.
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:44.639
So the same thing tends to show up in the therapy space, which is really freaking cool.
00:40:44.880 --> 00:41:10.559
I'm glad you said that because I I had this preconceived kind of notion about what I thought it was like with athletes in that sense, and it kind of is what you echo because athletes are so used to being like drilled and coached that if they had that trust level with someone in, you know, the mental health space, I feel like they would be more receptive to whatever you're telling them, you know, as far as guidance or just you know, practical practices to go about their day-to-day lives and stuff like that.
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:22.880
I think that it it can connect with them, um, which is why I I kind of tie that to what I said earlier about, you know, some being reluctant, because I think that with the way athletes are wired, which is very different than you know, the everyday person.
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:23.199
Sure.
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:32.559
You know, not to shade anyone, but it's just a different experience when you have to do things for your survival, you know, on the team or your own personal goals and stuff like that.
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:44.400
So I I think that me now in everyday life, still looking at most things around me as an athlete, I I I often like have to pull myself out of that to be like, hey, like so-and-so isn't thinking like that.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:56.960
So, you know, and then sometimes it comes to my competitive side of things with like the slightest thing can I can take it, like the Michael Jordan moment to where I took, you know, I took that, I took offense to that, and it drove me to, you know, want to compete in that way.
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:04.639
So I often have to pull myself back and you know come off the reins as a competitor sometimes, just because I know, like you said, it's the it's not the same experience.
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:13.840
And the things that I feel super, super passionate about, goal-wise or just like what I want to achieve, uh, may not be what someone else, you know, looks at in that way.
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:37.519
Um, and kind of goes along with one of the other things that I saw that you have, you know, done in your life or something that you were definitely into and promoting uh when on your podcast, which I did listen to a couple episodes about that, uh, but I want you to kind of touch on the high performance coaching side of you know what you do and how that kind of uh works in, I guess, what you're doing now.
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:44.000
Um, but also I guess do you offer those services to other people outside of just the athletes at your University of Delaware, correct?
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:44.800
Like the hot problem.
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:46.000
Yeah, I mean, that's the goal.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:47.119
That's the goal, right?
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:48.320
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
00:42:48.639 --> 00:43:06.800
That's something that um, yeah, I'm definitely looking into to offering because one of the things that um is really important to me is that for women particularly, that we don't hold ourselves back just because we see somebody else doing something, right?
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:13.039
And like I see too many people, too many women who have a dream and they're like, but I can't, right?
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.039
They're holding themselves back in some way.
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:24.800
And I feel like I can really connect with those women and help them make adjustments in their life with what I teach athletes, right?
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.360
Because life is a performance domain.
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:35.840
And so it really is just understanding where am I performing and shifting the lingo from the field to the kitchen, right?
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:48.400
From the what's going on with your teammates to what's going on with your kids, and really helping people get really clear on this is what I want to do with my life, and then helping them overcome the barriers that are keeping them from starting.
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.360
Life what life is a performance domain.
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:58.559
That's uh yeah, I like that, you know, as someone who again kind of looks at everything as a competition, but yeah.
00:43:58.800 --> 00:43:59.280
Yep, yep.
00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.599
Yeah.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:08.239
Um so with that you said there was one quote that you had, uh touching on the you know what you just said about coaching women in that way.
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:13.280
It was uh quiet women are always well, I forget the exact quote that you had.
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:22.880
The one on your most second most recent episode, it was quiet women are are always something about them achieving high-level things in their life.
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:24.480
I forget exactly what the quote was.
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:25.519
Gosh, I don't know.
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:29.360
I feel like there are quotables all the time, and it just comes off the top of my head.
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:30.239
Okay, yeah.
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:37.519
You said something that was uh about how quiet women don't achieve much in their life, or and something about being a disruptor, basically.
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:43.920
Uh, and how that basically is something that propels you towards whatever your goal or your, you know, your level of success is.
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:48.000
And it kind of connected with me because I consider myself that kind of person, a disruptor.
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:48.960
Disruptor, yeah.
00:44:49.039 --> 00:45:08.960
Yeah, and I do think that people who are high performers have to kind of be like that, i.e., you know, the Kobe Bryant two we have up there on the wall, like he was a person who just literally, whatever goal he had in mind was just I'm willing to do whatever it is to achieve it, whether it be yelling at my front office and saying I want to be traded to then make them make a better decision to give bring me better players so I can have a chance to compete.
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:14.320
So I just believe uh being a disruptor is like part of my purpose.
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:18.400
Yeah, uh, so it was Wait, was it Quiet Women Rarely Make History?
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:19.280
Yes, is that what it was?
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:23.039
Yes, yes, it's Quiet Women Rarely Make History, yeah, is what you is what it was.
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:24.960
And I was like, that is not a me quote.
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:26.400
That is like on bumper stickers.
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:27.440
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:28.960
So wherever it was from, I heard it.
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:31.280
I was like, yeah, that you know, that that's a good one.
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:34.400
And definitely if you're coaching women in that way, then yeah, 100%.
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:49.760
Um uh so with that, I wanted to keep the conversation around, I guess, sports and mental health and uh athletics, you know, and how it plays into the everyday life of like people who used to be in athletics, which were kind of you know echoed without what I'm saying.
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:53.760
Have you dealt with any athletes in transition?
00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:00.800
You know, from like I'm an athlete now to maybe I'm gonna be a senior and I'm not gonna continue to play sports anymore.
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:03.440
What are the next stages or steps in my life look like?
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:06.880
Uh have you had any people that you've serviced in that way?
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:08.079
Oh yeah, yeah.
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:12.159
And then the people who've had either a season or a career-ending injury, right?
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:17.760
Like what is like one minute you're playing and literally the next you're not, uh you're facing a major surgery.
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:21.119
I mean, think about the number of people who've who've torn their ACL, right?
00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:24.320
I mean, that ends your season for at least a year, right?
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:38.400
And um yeah, I think it's really it's so complicated because we're all uh let me not say complicated, um complex and it has to do like each person's journey is gonna be different.
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:47.199
And I think the thing with athletes is these are the moments when they just want me to tell them what to do, like give me the playbook, tell me the play, I'm gonna run it.
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:50.239
And sometimes I'm like, now the play is your feeling.
00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:52.400
And they're like, Doc, what are you talking about?
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:53.199
Like, what's that?
00:46:53.440 --> 00:47:01.599
And sometimes it's really sitting in it and getting quiet and going internally to find out like what's there that I haven't been attending to, right?
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:14.400
Because an injury or a break from sport or just the the natural progression graduating out is that opportunity to get really quiet and get back inside and say, Hey, what's there that maybe I haven't been attending to?
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:21.119
Where's where's a part of me that maybe like I put to the side because I've given so much focus to sport?
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:31.360
Maybe there's an artistic side in there and really trying to honor the athlete and whatever the transition is and like grieve that.
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.440
And because it really is, I mean, it it is the loss of a relationship.
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:36.960
And I talk to the athletes about that.
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:43.280
Like, you've been in a relationship with this sport for nearly your entire life, and so that relationship is shifting.
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:44.960
Doesn't mean that it has to end.
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:46.800
Like, do you want it still in your life?
00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:48.239
Could you coach?
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:54.800
Could you, you know, how could you stay in relationship with the sport differently than playing it?
00:47:54.880 --> 00:48:00.559
And sometimes they look at me like I have six heads, and then three weeks later they'll come back and they'll be like, That thing you said, that relationship.
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.800
Yeah, here's what I'm thinking now.
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:04.079
Yeah, for sure.
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:09.599
As someone who's been there, you know, personally, it's you know, one of the most trying times you can go through as an athlete.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.559
You know, absolutely my career ended by choice, I would say.
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:17.760
You know, I was you know lucky enough to walk out on my own terms, but it doesn't make it any easier, right?
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:24.480
You know, and the the way you just said it is like you've been in a relationship with this, you know, so it is kind of like grieving something when you're done.
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:31.679
Like I never even looked at it in that lens, and this is now 2019 was when I left as 2026, almost 2027.
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:48.559
So I've had a lot of time to process a lot of the things I went through as an athlete, just through my own, you know, I like to be a person who I try to pride myself on being self-aware, you know, um through therapy, like I mentioned a little bit before, but I'm also a big advocate advocate for meditation.
00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:50.400
Um, so it's one of my practices.
00:48:50.480 --> 00:49:00.480
Uh, and it goes along with uh, you know, something that you put out there um to your listeners, the the three practices, the spiritual, physical, and uh what was the third one to start your day?
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.199
Uh it was spiritual, physical, and mental.
00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:13.360
So for me, the meditation kind of is like the mental and the spiritual part, uh, just because I believe it offers me a space to kind of sit with my feelings and really process what's important to me.
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:13.840
Absolutely.
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:19.679
Um, and it definitely helped me through my transition from athletics to being an everyday person.
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:32.960
Because when I came home, and people like, you know, they know this on this podcast, when I came home, uh, I felt like I was getting into a new life uh with less experience than everybody else who was my age, you know.
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:47.519
And getting into the training space and the fitness space, uh, when I did initially come home and want to get into where I was working last as like a side gig, a side job, I was looking around and like everyone was 10 years younger than me, but knew like three to four times more than me.
00:49:47.679 --> 00:50:08.559
And that put me in a very like odd space because it it made me question like, did I waste a lot of time doing what I was doing before to then walk away from it mid-30s and then now have to figure out the rest of my life in front of me uh while still again grieving the fact that I'm stepping away from something that was such a big part of my core and still is to this day.
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:12.239
So, you know, just a very interesting time in my life.
00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:21.840
Uh, and I do believe that a lot of athletes can go through those times and not have the right support or right mentality, you know, because I either believe you have the right mentality to get through it, or you need support to get through it.
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:22.239
Absolutely.
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:28.800
Um, and then you see situations where like substance abuse is a thing, or you know, athletes who've been in all kinds of crazy situations.
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:43.519
Uh I'm not sure if you saw recently um Kyle Singler from Duke when he was he was uh I came up, he was after my era, but was seen online, you know, making comments about his relationship with Coach K and stuff not looking very well put together.
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:46.719
So it's caused a lot of people to worry about where his mental health is at.
00:50:46.880 --> 00:51:01.360
And you know, situations like that always like hit me like at home, hit me like really, really close to home just because like I feel I did pretty well in my transition, and then to see the other side of it is a little, you know, it's a it's a little sad for some guys, you know.
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:02.079
Absolutely.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:11.440
So I think the one thing that sport doesn't always do a great job at is showing the translatable skills, right?
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:17.199
Because you're so focused in on your sport, the skills that are needed for your sport, the scouting.
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:26.639
But then if you pan back, you look at how did you navigate that system, especially if you're playing a team sport and you've got new teammates every year, right?
00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:28.239
Like you know how to be a part of a team.
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:30.800
You probably stepped into leadership roles.
00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:48.159
And so where, yeah, from the fitness sense in the business standpoint, you might be 10 years behind or you know, they're younger, but you have all of this experience of being in a system and pushing yourself to the limit and succeeding at a high level when you do that facing adversity.
00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:52.400
That, like, you know, if this person misses a sale, they might crumble.
00:51:52.880 --> 00:52:11.599
And so I think we miss teaching athletes how, yeah, like you're not on a basketball court, but look at all of this and what made you who you are, and how the people that you're in the business world with or in the fitness world with, they might not have that and how it puts you to an advantage.
00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:12.639
Yeah, for sure.
00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:16.400
And I pretty much said this at one point or another through my career.
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:22.960
And I said it a not so nice way, but I said like people are soft when they get when we get into the normal work world.
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:28.800
It's like they complain about the littlest things, they are willing to quit over the smallest things or the smallest.
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:33.760
And I understand everyone's feelings are valid, but what the for perspective also matters, you know.
00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:44.239
So for me, having to run until I literally couldn't run anymore, and then I'm collapsing on the ground changes my like my lens when it looks at something like all right, now you gotta get up at 4 a.m.
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:45.920
for like three, four days in a row.
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:47.360
You know, how do you handle that?
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:51.360
Uh, this is more so the fitness space, just because we do have to wake up that early.
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:52.639
Yeah.
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:53.280
Right, right, right.
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:55.679
For the early morning crowd and no that that crew.
00:52:55.760 --> 00:53:00.960
But you know, just even other things like that, where like when your boss is yelling at you or super critical or stuff like that.
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:18.800
So how we deal with that in sport and how it prepares you to get over those kind of things in life is something that is like you take that to the bank because you're not gonna really get those experiences anywhere else, uh, but going through like the rigors and the years and years of just being and put in those kind of environments and those situations.
00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:25.440
So um, I've said this before and I say it again, like it does make you better than, you know, not better than I would say.
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:30.880
It does make you more prepared for the adversity and things like that in everyday life than certain people who don't go through those things.
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:37.360
So definitely something to highlight and definitely something to lean into as an athlete who is transitioning into just whatever, you know.
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:41.760
But I think finding the thing that you want to do is the hardest thing for athletes at that point.
00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:42.000
Sure.
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:47.440
Um, and definitely having people to support you on the mental health side can be a very, very big help.
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:53.599
And, you know, I I I appreciate people like you to kind of share that messaging because, you know, it it's tough, you know.
00:53:53.679 --> 00:54:00.880
And I know that athletes get looked at oftentimes like we just can, like you said, run through a wall, literally, and uh, you know, you got this, you'll be all right.
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:07.599
But you know, the stuff that goes on in our heads is often where people don't really put themselves in those shoes because they haven't been through it.
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:08.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:12.559
And the one thing is is we all have mental health 247, 365.
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:19.679
It's just a matter of where are we falling on the continuum from healthy to like unhealthy at any given point in our life, right?
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:23.599
So there are some people who are like, Oh, I don't have mental health, and I'm like, Well, you're breathing, you do.
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:26.000
Like you have a brain, yes, you have mental health.
00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:31.679
You just may be on that more healthy side, you're able to cope with the adversities that come, you know, come at you.
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:35.840
And so when I say that into a room of coaches, and I'm like, all of you have mental health.
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:37.199
And they look at me like I have six heads.
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.679
I'm like, trust me, you do.
00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:42.079
Solid, solid.
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:50.559
Um, so outside of your career currently, um, you are uh working on a book still, or you know, what is the process?
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:51.920
Like, how is that going?
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:53.840
Yeah, um, like tell me about it.
00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:56.719
Oh my gosh, writing a book is a whole thing.
00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:57.760
It's a whole thing.
00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:01.039
Yeah, I think I started writing it maybe three years ago.
00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:02.559
Okay, yeah.
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:08.880
And um, well, right now one of my colleagues is has offered to edit it for me.
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:14.159
And so I like did a little bit of a sprint because then his wife had a baby.
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:20.880
And so I was like, I'm gonna get this to you, and then you read it, edit it, you know, whatever, and get it to me when you can.
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:25.360
So um, yeah, I mean, it really I have always wanted to write a book.
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:29.599
And I have a friend who writes and had a publishing house at one point.
00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:35.199
I'm not sure if she's still doing it, but um, she was like, You have a book in you, and I'm like, I don't know what I want to write about.
00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:39.920
And so um we did some accountability calls just to like sit and write together.
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:58.480
And yeah, it was like three or so odd years ago, I was on a podcast interview with one of my other friends, and she like I have this theory that I teach, and she was asking me questions about it, and it got me thinking about it in ways that I hadn't before, and I was like, the book.
00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:05.039
And I thought, like, okay, this book would be a pamphlet because I could literally tell you what it's all about in like three sentences.
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:06.639
I'm like, how am I gonna write a whole book?
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:08.559
And now there's a whole book about it.
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:27.679
And so um, yeah, it's like gone through iterations and I sat down to write it basically like I was giving the um giving the talk to uh a team and I just wrote it just like I would say the things to them just to get it on paper and then would play around with it and it's like, oh, I can share a story here and I could share a story here.
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:35.119
Oh, I don't have time in a one-hour workshop to like delve into this piece, so let me unfold that into like two chapters in the book.
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:49.920
And um, you know, I went through um the last two years have been a little bit stressful, and so it was I didn't have as much emotional and cognitive space to to like go to work and then come home and edit a book.
00:56:50.000 --> 00:57:06.639
I just didn't have any brain cells left at the end of the day, and so it took a a a lot of time, but um yeah, now it's in my buddy's hands and I'm gonna see what he has to say, and um, then we'll shake it around, put some final edits on it, and hopefully it'll get out in the world in the next like six to eight months.
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:07.360
Nice.
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:13.360
Yeah, definitely we'll be checking for that when it when it comes out, and you know, best of luck on the rest of the way with that process.
00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:13.920
Thanks.
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:14.639
It is wild.
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:20.639
It is I I have a few author friends, so they've kind of told me, you know, a little bit about what it's like to write a book.
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:28.000
Uh they've also challenged me to get into writing at some point because I was also told in not the same exact words, but that I have a book in me.
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:28.400
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:33.199
Um, and I've thought about it, but again, there's just the process seems kind of daunting.
00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:42.559
And uh now I've I've been challenged by one of my author friends to to start writing some stuff down as far as what the vision for it could be.
00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:45.599
Uh so yeah, I might be actually reaching out for some help with that.
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:46.159
Seriously.
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:47.920
As someone who's been through the process.
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:59.280
Yeah, I mean, and honestly, some of what I have found is was helpful was just talking into the mic and getting the thoughts out and then put it in, let Chat GBT transcribe it for you, right?
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:00.239
Or or whatever, right?
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:07.599
Like uh because it's it's your there's something different that when we're we process differently, when it comes out of our mouth, when it comes out of our fingers.
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:25.840
And so um, yeah, you just gotta find like what's most comfortable for you to get your words out authentically and then be committed to a shitty first draft and have some people in your corner who can read it and like make it be a book.
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:31.280
I was told that exact same thing, like be prepared for the first draft of it to be terrible because that's just what it's gonna be.
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:32.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:33.840
So we'll see.
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:34.400
We'll see.
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:44.400
I have been pushed to do so, um, but I also then run a business, so now it's like trying to figure out where I can squeeze in time to then add that to my schedule.
00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:49.280
So yeah, but I I do feel like it could be something that I would want to do at some point in my life.
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:54.880
But absolutely, you know, God willing, I'm here for a long time and can fulfill that vision at some point later on.
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:55.599
But there you go.
00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:56.400
Yeah, for sure.
00:58:56.639 --> 00:58:57.039
Love it.
00:58:57.199 --> 00:58:58.559
Um, so podcasting.
00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:05.840
Um now that we are already on my podcast, uh looking ahead, looking back, excuse me, when I was looking into you before ahead of time.
00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:07.440
I didn't realize you had a podcast.
00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:11.119
Um, and then did a little bit of wormhole and just listened to a few of the episodes.
00:59:11.360 --> 00:59:13.360
Your first episode and then the last few that you did.
00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:18.000
I feel like you know what they say, you should read the first and the last page of the book kind of kind of thing.
00:59:18.079 --> 00:59:21.440
So yeah, so you got the first brand and then the second brand.
00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:22.079
Right, right.
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:24.480
So, you know, tell me about that for yourself.
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:31.840
Um and uh one, I guess, how you started that, because you have way more episodes than I have at this point in my life.
00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:43.519
Uh so it's always encouraging to see, and you were podcasting since 2021, uh, back when many people weren't, or and the industry kind of started to take off a little bit, but now you know everyone has a mic and a a podcast.
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:45.679
So I feel like a lot more watered down.
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:48.719
Uh, but when you started, like what was that for you?
00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:52.079
And you know, I guess how did it fulfill you as a person?
00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:53.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:53.360 --> 01:00:04.480
So I I think I've always had this knowing of like I want to reach more people, and I just didn't know what that meant or in what ways.
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:12.800
And I think in some ways, maybe even just how women are socialized, it was it felt kind of weird to say, like, I just want to reach people.
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:13.679
And I'm like, with what?
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.719
I don't, I don't know, but it's just always been that thing inside.
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:26.239
And so um I have been an avid like consumer of podcasts for I don't gosh, since like 2015.
01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:28.639
And I've always just been like, this is so cool.
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:38.480
And I love just listening to people sit down and like talk about TV shows or have really in-depth conversations, or someone's out there teaching you something.
01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:56.719
And so um there was a woman in this like the social media sphere that I was kind of living in at the time, and she had launched a podcast and then had like a course where she would get you through idea to launch in, I think we did it in like two months, three months, or something like that.
01:00:56.960 --> 01:01:04.559
And so it was nice because I was in this cohort of other women and we had were able to bounce ideas off and then like do guest trading and all of that.
01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:06.320
And so it started off.
01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:14.159
Um, it was initially called Beyond the Couch, um, mental health conversations without the psycho babble, because I don't like to psycho babble whatsoever.
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:18.079
Um and so it started out in that realm.
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:23.119
And then um there was something about the title.
01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:26.800
I just felt too constricted around like the mental health pieces.
01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:35.679
And I'm funny in that I don't always want my career to and like my training to be what I do in all facets of my life.
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:38.320
Like it is a part of me, it will always be a part of me.
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:40.239
It's an identity, it's how I move through the world.
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:41.920
But like, I don't know.
01:01:42.079 --> 01:01:43.760
I just didn't want it to be like that anymore.
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:46.960
And so then I rebranded it to beyond your limits.
01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:47.360
Yes.
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:58.559
Um, and so that for me felt like I could do a little bit more of that coaching, a little bit more of that teaching, kind of um push the envelope a little bit, challenge people a little bit more.
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:09.280
Um, and then what I realized when it kind of started to fizzle off is at the point that I started my podcast, I was married, um, but I was miserable.
01:02:09.440 --> 01:02:15.360
I was absolutely miserable in my relationship, and I had lost my voice.
01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:29.760
And the podcast was the place where I ran the show and I could talk about what I wanted to talk about, and there was no the feedback that was coming in about the show was all positive and was all supportive of me.
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:37.840
And so through that process, I ended up getting divorced and um my ex-wife moved out and all of that great stuff.
01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:52.159
And I was in such a better place, and then I realized like I I don't need the same, like I had my voice back, and I I didn't need the podcast in the same way, right?
01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:53.679
Like it and two things can be true.
01:02:53.840 --> 01:03:03.679
I was still on mission, but then I also wasn't grasping content ideas as quickly as I was before.
01:03:04.159 --> 01:03:06.960
Um and so I was like, I don't want to force it.
01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:18.719
And there would be weeks where I'm like, I'm supposed to drop a podcast tomorrow, and so I'd just get on the mic on a Monday night and just say some stuff into a mic, and I I wasn't fully there.
01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:24.719
And um, and so I wanted it to be authentic, and I was like, I'm just gonna pause.
01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:27.440
And I didn't like announce a pause, I just like stopped.
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:32.960
I think I stopped when I was like, hey, we're gonna do this like three episode thing, and I did one of them and then I stopped.
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:36.000
And I'm like, okay, whatever.
01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:38.320
Um, and everyone keeps asking me, like, are you gonna come back?
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:39.440
You're gonna come back, you're gonna come back.
01:03:39.519 --> 01:03:41.679
And I'm like, Yeah, you know, like I want to.
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:51.760
And then life took another turn, and again, that energy and the um just the time and energy that it takes, it wasn't there.
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:54.559
I just had nothing left in the tank at the end of the day.
01:03:55.039 --> 01:04:00.639
And what I had left, I was putting into other parts of my life that were, you know, unfolding.
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:07.280
Um, but now I have been like really like thinking about this and journaling about it.
01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:11.760
And the phrase that keeps coming back to me is built for the long haul.
01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:33.920
And so I think that is what I'm gonna rebrand and come back with is built for the long haul because I think it holds together what I was wanting to do with Beyond Your Limits and like the heart of um Beyond the Couch because it is the mental health, but it is the high performance.
01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:41.599
And really looking at like I told you before, it took me 15 years from when I learned about the field to get into the field.
01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:46.159
I trained in martial arts for what took five years to get a black belt.
01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:56.559
And I feel like we're in a time that, you know, if you and I were like, hey, we're hungry, we could literally put in an order and the food would be here by the time we're done recording.
01:04:56.719 --> 01:05:04.800
Or I just ordered some stuff off of Amazon because I'm gonna reorganize a room because my mom's moving in and like, you know, and it's gonna be here tomorrow.
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:13.760
And we just don't have to wait and simmer and wrestle and grow in the same ways that we did in the 90s, you know?
01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:25.199
And so I really want to share that story and bring people on who can talk about like, hey, yeah, you see this success that I'm having now, but what was the 10 years before it?
01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:29.519
And what's what's behind the curtain that you don't get to see?
01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:36.559
And what like what is it that really made us and those pieces of what's really beautiful about people's stories?
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:41.840
Well, I I want to encourage you and and maybe even challenge you to get that going.
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:50.800
Cause you know, uh my thing when I started to dive into your episodes, again, the last two episodes I listened to, when I finished the last one, I was like, hey, like, where was the next one?
01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:51.920
Where's the next?
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:57.280
Yeah, because you were presenting these skills and these pieces, and I'm like, this is like valuable shit, you know.
01:05:57.440 --> 01:05:59.760
And then uh it just wasn't I'm like, I wouldn't.
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:03.280
It's like the cliffhanger that you never get to see the next episode.
01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:20.719
But yeah, and I understand that completely about having the will to do it because it is like, even though, and if you record by yourself, then even more so, like you would think that it's not an exchange of energy, but it literally is you giving your energy to however many people are gonna consume it.
01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:28.719
You know, so you have to be in the right mind space and you have to be in the right, like I guess, spiritual space to kind of do it, or else it's not gonna come out right.
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:33.519
And the the feeling forced thing is part of you know the the battle that you have internally.
01:06:33.599 --> 01:06:45.039
And I've taken many breaks, not as long as where you you have, but you know, I've had last before I kind of started off again, it was like months, so I want to say maybe four or five months before I got back to it.
01:06:45.119 --> 01:07:02.559
And I was like, listen, like something's not sitting right with feeling like I need to record right now because one, I was in a point of like really trying to figure out where and when I was gonna be able to start my business uh after leaving my last career, quitting my job and going into full-time entrepreneurialism was a whole like task in itself.
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:10.559
So having to take on that challenge put me in a space where like I can't force myself to record every week just because I don't feel like I have it, you know.
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:21.199
And what you decide to give people, how you structure your episodes, like the the messaging that you want to put out, it has to come from a place to where it's fulfilling you to do it, or else it just feels like a job.
01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:33.599
And you know, uh, and I know there are people that do podcasts to get paid and hopefully would love to monetize at some point myself, but I don't want creating content to feel like a job because then it's not coming from as true a sense of creativity.
01:07:33.679 --> 01:07:34.639
It's like I have to do this.
01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:38.079
So yeah, and it you can feel it on the other side of the mic, right?
01:07:38.239 --> 01:07:41.280
When it's being forced, and that just doesn't feel good too.
01:07:41.440 --> 01:07:41.679
For sure.
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:51.039
I'm only so good at hiding, and I've had episodes sometimes where I tell people, listen, listen, I'm here for a good time, not a long time, because I got about 35 minutes of content and then I'm out because I can't.
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:58.719
I got this going on in my life, so it's something that I have to just be very, you know, conscious and self-aware of with when you record and stuff.
01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:04.239
And I feel like I've been in a good groove and a good space recently, and you know, want to definitely keep the train going as far as that goes.
01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:05.920
What's been helping you?
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:17.760
Um, I would say getting my business open was a big, big help because I kind of had to promote leading into the business opening, and it's something I talk about often on the podcast.
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:27.359
Yeah, uh, so that was helpful in me feeling like I needed to record again, but also wanted to because it was something that was exciting in my life that was like it's a big, like this is a big moment for me.
01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:27.680
Absolutely.
01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:31.039
Uh, I wanted to share it with you know the people that support and listen to the podcast.
01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:41.840
Uh but since then I do feel like, again, being an athlete and goal-driven, it's like I'm challenging myself to make sure that I'm not falling off and staying consistent with it.
01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:42.159
Sure.
01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:50.000
Uh, just because I know in the industry of podcasting, like with lack of consistency, that's where like the ebbs and flows really, really go up and down.
01:08:50.079 --> 01:09:00.960
So I've had points where I've been, I've done it for like two weeks, and then you know, I'll take like three weeks off and then you know, come back for a month straight, and you know, kind of like, all right, well, now I need another two weeks off.
01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:19.840
But finding things to keep myself like going in this way, whether it be social media and current events kind of things, or you know, just delivering messages off of what I'm going through in my own journeys as a you know athlete who to then trainer to then entrepreneur.
01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:27.359
Like, you know, I I give my listeners every part of my life just because one of my monikers, like, I'm a living example of the things to do and not to do.
01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:38.239
So if I can bump my head a million times for you to not bump your head as many times as I did, I want to share those experiences with people because I think my purpose is in, you know, definitely in what I offer now as a trainer.
01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:44.479
You know, my purpose is in helping people to grow in fitness and young athletes to grow to the next level of their athletic careers.
01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:53.199
But, you know, in my experience, I've always felt that, you know, it is it's a shame that you go through things and then don't put it out there.
01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:58.880
Uh like one of my favorite quotes in life is for in vain you have acquired wisdom if you do not impart it to others.
01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:12.880
So for me, like it is like if you're going through a bunch of stuff in your life that could either help someone get through their journey, motivate someone to get into their journey, or just you know, anything in between that, like you're kind of selling yourself short by not putting it out there, you know.
01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:17.920
And I know that comes with a lot of self-doubt and you know, what if it's gonna connect with people, what if it's not.
01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:25.600
So at this point, I'm pretty much just to the space, like within my own like confidence level, with it's like, hey, bro, just put it out, you know, yeah and see what happens.
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:27.359
And I do get good feedback from it.
01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:48.479
And, you know, the people that are watching and listening, they've said, like you said before, positive things about, you know, what I'm giving them, or again, just the ability to execute what I'm doing on the level that I am as consistently as I am, is something that I kind of take to the bank because it's kind of motivating because I know that it's hard to do what I'm doing, and I never lean away from like doing the hard things just because they're hard.
01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:49.359
You know, yeah, yeah.
01:10:49.520 --> 01:10:51.760
I mean, and look at this place, you're an all-in guy.
01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:53.760
Yeah, and I appreciate that.
01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:54.319
Yeah.
01:10:54.560 --> 01:11:05.439
I think you know, uh I appreciate you sharing because it's it's resonating with me a lot and it's like giving me like I'm excited and energized each time I think about relaunching my podcast.
01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:11.680
And I think part of what I have I have learned that the way that I think is very different.
01:11:12.319 --> 01:11:20.960
And so the things to me that are like, yeah, doesn't everybody know this are in fact the pieces that I need to share.
01:11:21.119 --> 01:11:29.760
And so I think some of what I've struggled with is like I learned a lot getting a black belt in karate in in elementary school.
01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:38.079
And so I was so young that the I wasn't necessarily having aha moments, it was just how my life was running.
01:11:38.239 --> 01:11:46.159
But now I look back and I realize oh, that piece has showed up consistently over time and has been the building blocks.
01:11:46.239 --> 01:11:58.399
And so I'm like, that's and I think that's where the built for the long haul comes from, is because so much of why I've been able to do what I do now was uh learned in that karate studio.
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:01.119
And that's the stuff I need to be sharing.
01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:03.520
And I think there's like 10 years of content right there, you know.
01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:04.239
Sure.
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:06.079
Share it, definitely, you know, yeah.
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:15.920
And like you said, the stuff that you like you don't realize what people actually need, you know, from you unless you, you know, unless someone puts it out there, and then you'll connect with the people that you can.
01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:24.079
And I always tell myself, not for everybody, but the ones that you can really connect with are the ones that are gonna be with you for the long haul, pun intended.
01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:36.800
Yeah, and I heard somebody say, like, the point of a podcast or the point of putting whatever you're gonna put out in the world is to like hard repel people and hard like bring them in because you don't want those people in your orbit.
01:12:36.880 --> 01:12:40.399
And so that's why it's like stand for something, stand on something.
01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:53.119
And you know, like I use the F-word a lot, it's in the title of my book, and so like people will stop listening to me because I say the F word too many times, and I'm like, okay, you're not my people, and I need to be okay with that.
01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:59.920
100%, you know, and I'm I said it last week um on a post that I made like circle got smaller, but goals got bigger.
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:01.359
So I love love.
01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:10.319
In that kind of way, it is a thing to invite the people that can appreciate your space into that space, and then the ones that aren't, like, listen, like fuck off.
01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:12.159
Like, literally, like this isn't for you.
01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:20.079
Yeah, so that's okay because there's something out there that might be for you, or maybe you're not a podcast person, or just maybe you like to consume different things in your life, and that's okay.
01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:31.439
But you know, the ones that are here for the things that I offer and the things that I put out there are the ones that really, really like they, they, they keep me going in a way that like makes me feel even more energized to continue the process.
01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:36.079
So yeah, you know, I think that has been super, super helpful to me to go back to your original question.
01:13:36.159 --> 01:13:41.920
It's just finding that groove, you know, and getting in that like kind of flow state to where every week you know what's gonna happen.
01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:43.279
I set my time to record.
01:13:43.359 --> 01:13:46.720
Like, even today, we're recording outside of my normal uh recording space.
01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:51.760
But when we get to my normal day this week, I'm gonna record something just because I want to stay in that mode.
01:13:52.000 --> 01:14:02.479
And then for me, it's a lot of it is just like getting reps too, because as an athlete, I'm used to shooting the ball until I can make a certain percentage, or you know, working on this skill until I can feel like I mastered it.
01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:09.039
So right now it's in a point where I know how to make all this come together and do it as well as I can right now.
01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:10.399
But how can I make it better?
01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:20.800
And the only way to make it better is to go through the little steps where you're just fucking up over and over again, or just you know, finding yourself within that space to feel confident in what you deliver uh to the highest level.
01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:32.159
So, you know, I don't even feel like I'm there yet, but I do feel like every time I get behind the mic, like you said, it gives me more opportunity to figure that out and you know, find what that is for me, you know, internally.
01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:36.800
So yeah, this makes me think of here's what you get to do when you have a PhD is you get to quote yourself.
01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:38.960
So what nice all right?
01:14:39.279 --> 01:14:40.640
I do this all the time with my athletes.
01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:42.640
I'll put a quote up on the board and then I'm like Dr.
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:43.199
Jehu.
01:14:43.760 --> 01:14:44.479
It's so funny.
01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:50.479
But the thing I say is it's the small, unsexy actions done consistently over time that gets you to the big sexy outcome, right?
01:14:50.560 --> 01:14:54.319
And so it's yeah, like you said, it's just putting those reps in and gotta get the reps in.
01:14:54.479 --> 01:15:04.560
Yeah, and not discounting, like I mean, you were telling me you spent a couple of months learning all the ins and outs of this so that you could do it well, right?
01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:14.720
Like all of those little reps and those pieces that the people on the other side don't see like specifically, but they get to experience it through the quality of what you put out.
01:15:14.800 --> 01:15:20.239
And so, and again, that's I think those are the pieces that hold people back is they don't see the behind the scenes.
01:15:20.319 --> 01:15:20.479
Right.
01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:26.000
And so when we can give it to them, that's such a gift because then it helps them see what's possible for them.
01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:28.000
Powerful, powerful for sure.
01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:28.640
Oh my gosh.
01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:33.119
Now I feel like I have to make like a public commitment to like get my podcast back out by the end of the year.
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:47.119
I wanna I want to challenge you, and in any kind of way that I can be helpful of that, then you know, I I'm willing to be a support system because you know, I'm not saying I'm the biggest guru, I'm not Joe Rogan or any people who are you know doing it to the highest level.
01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:48.479
This is legit.
01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:53.359
Yeah, but I I like I said earlier, I like to call myself the king of being a small time creator.
01:15:53.520 --> 01:16:00.800
So you know, I do it in this space and the ones that really have purpose and really have vision and messages that they want to put out there.
01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:09.279
I challenge those people to do it just because again, you're gonna connect with the people that really, really are supposed to be in that space with you, you know, or along that journey with you.
01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:17.680
So, you know, challenging you, but I'm also down to be helpful in any way I can, you know, if there's anything that you need with having way more episodes than I have in my belt.
01:16:17.840 --> 01:16:20.159
But, you know, maybe it can be an accountability thing for the city.
01:16:20.319 --> 01:16:20.640
I love it.
01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:22.159
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
01:16:22.239 --> 01:16:22.960
Because that's the thing.
01:16:23.039 --> 01:16:29.920
So my mom is moving up here, but her house isn't gonna be ready until like early, like the first of the year.
01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:30.399
Okay.
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:33.199
But her house in Virginia literally okay.
01:16:33.439 --> 01:16:35.920
This woman was like so afraid that her house wasn't gonna sell.
01:16:36.159 --> 01:16:40.800
She had two days of showings and like offers over asked.
01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:41.359
Okay.
01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:48.159
And so now she's gonna be living with me for like two and a half months in my room that's like my podcasting studio.
01:16:48.399 --> 01:16:53.520
And so in my head, I'm like, okay, I might just like sit on the floor of my closet because I don't do the video side of it.
01:16:53.680 --> 01:17:01.760
And I'm like, where can I just get good audio and just say F it let's rock and just put it start getting the reps in again?
01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:11.840
I mean, hey, if you wanna come and just get your audio in here, listen, I'm gonna make that learning curve a little bit you know, smoother for you to get back into it.
01:17:12.079 --> 01:17:12.399
Thank you.
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:13.199
I appreciate it.
01:17:13.359 --> 01:17:15.680
But that said, we definitely appreciate you coming.
01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:19.279
So hopefully, watchers, listeners have gotten a positive experience.
01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:20.960
And uh thank you to Dr.
01:17:21.119 --> 01:17:24.159
CJ, Christian J Who for coming and sticking with us today.
01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:31.119
Uh so as always, as we leave you, uh we'll tell you to stay safe mentally, physically, and spiritually in all things in between.
01:17:31.199 --> 01:17:34.560
Uh, until the next go round, but episode number eighty eight with me.
01:17:34.640 --> 01:17:35.279
And uh, Dr.
01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:36.319
CJ is out.
01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:38.000
We'll talk to you in the next go round.
01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:38.960
Peace.
