WEBVTT
1
00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:10.039
After last week's story featuring Dominic's return
to Prague and the reclaiming of the family
2
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:14.640
castle, it seemed appropriate to have
a discussion about the pros and cons of
3
00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:20.160
communism, especially with Red Eddie on
the panel. I just wanted to bring
4
00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:24.480
it back to Perth, like you
two guys are both from Perth. Now.
5
00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:31.039
Dominic's father was a bus driver who
was a Czech count and he had
6
00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:36.000
to reinvent himself as a bus driver
when Communism came in. No, he
7
00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:41.159
did as a bus driver and then
he actually became a school teacher and finally
8
00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:46.200
principal, so he was only a
bus driver while he was studying. That's
9
00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:52.240
Australia for you, Dominique, that's
the career path bus driver school. But
10
00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.000
Eddie, my father didn't have to
reinvente himself at all. He was a
11
00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.679
bricklayer in Yugoslavia. He was a
bricklayer when he was in Perth as well.
12
00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:03.400
Thing we've got no royal connections or
anything like that. There was a
13
00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:07.439
king of Yugoslavia, but that was
a long long time ago, so there's
14
00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:15.959
no royal connection for us. The
history of communism isn't that straightforward. But
15
00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:19.640
for my sake as well as your's. He's a thirty second Internet based summary.
16
00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.920
The word seems to come from an
eighteen forty eight pamphlet, the Communist
17
00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:27.599
Manifesto, written by the well known
car Marks and lesser known Frederick Engels.
18
00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:33.879
Communism is a political ideology and type
of government in which the state owns the
19
00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:37.840
major resources, including property, factory, schools, farms, and transportation.
20
00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:42.799
In communism, everyone shares the benefits
of labor equally and eliminates the class system
21
00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:49.640
through the redistribution of wealth. These
ideas have been around for a while and
22
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:56.200
were part of revolutionary Europe. The
Russians adopted the Manifesto after their revolution in
23
00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:04.000
nineteen seventeen, and from there on
it gets a bit weird. National Czechoslovakia
24
00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:07.240
became a communist satellite state of Russia
in a coupdutar after World War II in
25
00:02:07.360 --> 00:02:12.759
nineteen forty eight. Eight days after
the Berlin War fell in nineteen eighty nine,
26
00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:16.560
there was a Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia, which eventually split into the Czech
27
00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:23.080
Republic and the Slovak Republic in nineteen
ninety two. So there you have it.
28
00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:52.159
It's a long time since the Velvet
Revolution. Let's go back to Dominique,
29
00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:55.599
who did experience the Velvet Revolution in
Prague and what was it like at
30
00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:00.520
that point. Well, I didn't
experience the Velvet Revolution. I came a
31
00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:06.280
little bit after, so I was
about a few months later. I arrived
32
00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:16.159
in Czechoslovakia in March of nineteen ninety
and that was quite an experience. The
33
00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:21.680
first thing that hit me was the
confusion on the border. The guards didn't
34
00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:23.960
know whether to let me in or
not, and in the end they just
35
00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:31.719
sort of looked at each other very
confusedly, going Australian and what do we
36
00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:36.199
do with that? And then they
just gave up and gave me a stamp
37
00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:43.680
and let me in. It was
a time of great optimism. People really
38
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:52.360
were joyful with the possibilities. At
the same time, nothing really worked.
39
00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:55.840
If you wanted to get anything done, you had to sort of find a
40
00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:00.000
way to get around it. And
I would say, if you want to
41
00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:04.319
really look at what's one of the
main differences between Prague then and Prague now,
42
00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:11.199
it really is that that focus and
development of trying to make things a
43
00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:15.360
little bit easier, trying to help
people. You know, it's easier to
44
00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:19.680
run a business now, for example, there's a lot more schools, there's
45
00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:26.560
private schools, there's a lot more
opportunity you can. You know. At
46
00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:30.600
the moment, for example, they're
just introducing a digital nomad visa. So
47
00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:34.800
there are all sorts of things happening
in Prague where it's become a very modern
48
00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:43.879
city. When I arrived, it
hadn't been discovered yet, so you know,
49
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:48.560
really walking around in Prague it was
empty, weren't really many tourists at
50
00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:54.079
all, And now we're dealing with
something like one hundred million a year,
51
00:04:55.639 --> 00:05:00.199
and the streets of Prague at packed, and it's and the tourists bring very
52
00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:04.480
much of a party atmosphere. A
lot of the English coming over for their
53
00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:14.160
stagnites. They're very unpopular with that. I can imagine it's on steroids again.
54
00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:21.000
Yeah, let's get onto communism,
because how much nostalgia is there now
55
00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:28.920
for communism after all this that's happened, and there are some negatives with whatever
56
00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.759
the hell you've got there now?
Capitalism, I spose, yeah, I
57
00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:38.519
mean, I would say definitely it's
a pretty capitalistic society, if I could
58
00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:44.079
put it like that. I think
Europe generally has a very sort of socialist
59
00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:53.680
sort of underpinning too, you know, basically healthcare, employment security. I'm
60
00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:57.279
working in a global company, so
I very much see the differences, say
61
00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:01.560
between the job security in the US
and the job security in Europe. There's
62
00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:11.639
sort of nostalgia for what was it
is there communism, the Communist Party,
63
00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:17.839
they're not They've really lost support over
the last few years. There was a
64
00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:21.040
time where they were actually getting into
the parliament, they were getting the ten
65
00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:26.519
percent of the votes, but that's
gone down in recent times because of the
66
00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:32.199
situation with Ukraine. There's a lot
of Russian propaganda coming in and this is
67
00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.360
happening maybe more in Slovakia or more
effectively in Slovakia than it is in the
68
00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:45.040
Czech Republic, but really pushing that
nationalistic line, pushing that what was once
69
00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:49.439
called pan Slavism, as the idea
that you know, we're more connected with
70
00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:58.439
Russia and we are sick of the
capitalist West and especially the sort of the
71
00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:04.040
liberal approach. This I've been hearing
this from politicians in Slovakia, you know,
72
00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:12.480
the very against the LGBTQ. So
they really utilize that and it's really
73
00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:16.120
been a lot of it's being financed
by Russia. How close are you to
74
00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:23.199
the war Dominique physically, probably like
the distance between Adelaide and Sydney would be
75
00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:33.399
physical distance. It's not something we
really feel there. You know, at
76
00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:38.439
the beginning of the war there was
you could really feel the impact because a
77
00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:44.560
lot of people brought in Ukrainians into
their houses. Can I just set a
78
00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:48.160
point about the idea of nostalgia in
communism because I found that well through my
79
00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:54.120
experience there was nostalgia for Communism based
on which side of the fence you were
80
00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.439
on. If you were high end
member of the Communist Party, where you'd
81
00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:01.160
always bemoan the loss of the of
communism because all of your privileges were gone
82
00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:05.120
and thrown out the window. But
if you were anti Communists, well it
83
00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:09.519
was a good day for you.
So I think generally there's well in my
84
00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:13.040
experience now, based on what was
going on in Yugoslavia and the breakup of
85
00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.800
Yugoslavia, there was not much sympathy
or empathy for Communism, but there's still
86
00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:22.199
going to be relics of people that
are that still are attached to the ideas
87
00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:28.399
of communism based on what they had
within Yugoslavia. It's probably similar in Czechoslovakia.
88
00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:33.120
As well. The people that had
great privileges within the Communist Party within
89
00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:39.440
Czechoslovakia are probably very sympathetic and nostalgic
about communism. I would actually say it
90
00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:46.279
slightly differently because a lot of the
people who had the advantages, they went
91
00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:52.960
on and took positions where they had
a lot of advantages in the new regime,
92
00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:58.879
so they're not so nostalgic in that
way. The people who are more
93
00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:09.799
nostalgic more of the people in the
villagers who really appreciated the simplicity of life
94
00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:16.320
within communism. They don't have a
desire for great luxuries. They really you
95
00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:24.000
know, basically in communism you could
holiday in ex Yugoslavia, so as long
96
00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:28.000
as you had that holiday, that's
all you wanted, or you didn't even
97
00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.559
want to go outside of the country, and then life was simple. Everyone
98
00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:37.440
pretty much had a low income,
but with that income, you know,
99
00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.200
if you spent carefully, you had
a good life. Well, I guess
100
00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:46.799
the other thing is that a lot
of those former politicians that were existing under
101
00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.440
the communist system, whether it was
in Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union,
102
00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:56.919
wherever it was, they ended up
reinventing themselves anywhere and coming back into Parliament
103
00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:01.679
under a different name or a different
position or different situations. So I guess
104
00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:07.919
those people probably just reinvented themselves and
had those same privileges that they had before.
105
00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:13.960
But the thing that I noticed when
I was in Slovakia the day after
106
00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:18.919
it became after it separated from Czechoslovakia, and the other thing that I noticed
107
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:24.399
over there was that because communism was
deemed to be so bad, generally,
108
00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:26.600
they deemed that doing the opposite must
be good. So that's why I ended
109
00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:31.360
up getting high end capitalism or unbridle
capitalism, game shows and all these sort
110
00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.320
of things. It was almost like, we don't want to be reminded of
111
00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.360
that, but doing the opposite must
be good if that was so bad.
112
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.600
And I think that has developed into
other issues as well. The unbridal capitalism
113
00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:50.039
in Czech Czech here, or in
Slovakia or in Russia. Croatia had similar
114
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.799
issues as well. So it's almost
like we're doing the opposite of what we
115
00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.600
used to do now because that was
so bad, but it's not necessarily so
116
00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:03.720
good now. What you're talking about
is definitely the nineties. That was that
117
00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:07.600
period of really unbridled capitalism, and
you know, there were a lot of
118
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:16.000
forces coming up against each other trying
to basically create the new power centers which
119
00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:20.879
are running the country right. Russia
is a very different situation because they have
120
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:31.879
so many natural new sources. Karl
Marx's version of communism Marxism was also called
121
00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:39.919
scientific socialism. Everyday non scientific socialism
is theoretically less violent and more utopian.
122
00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:43.240
And back in Australia, rather unexpectedly, the first socialist party to be elected
123
00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:48.360
to government was in eighteen ninety nine, when the Australian Labor Party briefly won
124
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:56.519
government in Queensland. They didn't last
long, all right. So we've talked
125
00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:01.600
around pride now and a bit about
communist but I did put it to dominicque
126
00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:07.879
earlier, like communism good or bad? Are we able to quickly summarize the
127
00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:13.639
whole thing. Eddie is a political
commentator in Australia and he's definitely from the
128
00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:20.120
left, so he knows about this, but in an Australian context perhaps really
129
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.879
so, what do you say?
Well, again, bringing it back to
130
00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.679
my father, My father did live
under communism in Yugoslavia, and I can
131
00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.120
remember studying economics at high school and
I had a conversation with my father and
132
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.960
said, oh, communism, I
think that could be a good thing.
133
00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:37.759
And he said to me, well, it's a great thing on paper,
134
00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:41.720
but it just doesn't work in practice. And that's the big problem. And
135
00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.279
there's a lot of there's a lot
of problems with communism. If it was
136
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:48.360
such a fantastic system, well it
would have survived up until this day.
137
00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:54.240
Now I know that it still exists
in China. Communism in China is probably
138
00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:58.519
the best best example of communism,
but everywhere else it just didn't work in
139
00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:03.559
Eastern Europe. And sure, humanity's
got the history of being able to do
140
00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:05.519
all of these human experiments and try
and work them out. But generally,
141
00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:11.000
the perception that I received, and
the feeling that I got from speaking to
142
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:15.639
relatives and family members was that it
was the largest concentration camp in human history,
143
00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:18.639
and they were happy to see the
end of it. Yeah. I
144
00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:24.000
think it's funny because my dad basically
gave me the same feedback on communism as
145
00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:31.799
Eddie. It's good on paper,
but no way. And you know,
146
00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:43.080
I sort of I also looked at
communism at high school and beauty and I
147
00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:46.679
must have been what it looks like
on paper is good. It was funny.
148
00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:50.639
My wife was doing a course fairly
recently and she had to read the
149
00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:56.879
Communist Manifesto and she said, sounds
good. I still hate Marxism though.
150
00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:07.080
For one, Communism in Soviet Russia
was a pretty mixed up sort of place
151
00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:11.159
to have communism. It doesn't fit
in with Marxist theory very well. So
152
00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.559
you know, you could say,
well, maybe it wasn't real communism.
153
00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:24.200
Communism to me is just maybe it's
just too extreme. When I look at
154
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:31.200
a lot of the socialist countries within
Europe, there's a pretty good lifestyle and
155
00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:39.759
you know, they're maintaining things in
a really comfortable good way. People are
156
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.440
happy, people are pretty satisfied.
Yeah, I better give my summary.
157
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:48.600
So, having recently read a history
of Moscow, it goes way back to
158
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.240
Attila Vera Hunt and all that before
that. It just seems like a continual
159
00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.840
same thing, like a new person
comes in and Stalin and all that were
160
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:03.159
just the same and had a slightly
different name. But wow, they've had
161
00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:07.399
a difficult time in Moscow. The
government, you know, as the Russians
162
00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:11.000
had a saying themselves. You know, the government were lying to us,
163
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:16.440
and we pretended to believe the lies. You know, that was just a
164
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:24.159
given. But what's happening now is
more it's coming back. You know,
165
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.480
there was a lot of good journalists
in Russia and there was a lot of
166
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:33.039
open press in Russia that has been
destroyed over the past years. And this
167
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:39.080
is really Putchin has transformed really in
the last twenty years into a completely new
168
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.360
narrative in Russia. When I said
completely new, but going back to that
169
00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:50.639
old school sort of thing, he
very much. You know, he's reinvented
170
00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:56.279
Stalin. Stalin is now a national
hero. That'd be a hard sell anyway.
171
00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:03.320
I mean, just to wind up
a check royalty nobility and even that's
172
00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:11.120
a bit embarrassed. Yeah, that's
check nobility. What was the last thing
173
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.480
you did? Like, what have
you done? Rightly? You know,
174
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:22.480
in the last twenty years, things
have changed a lot. My father passed
175
00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:30.120
away, so there's really all there's
been a huge transformation with his generation because
176
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:36.200
his generation they're all past it,
they're dying out and they're the ones who
177
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:41.519
really remember it and know at least
what was going on. And for me,
178
00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:47.399
you know, I've still brought up
in Australia, so I think you
179
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:52.120
know, with Eddie, I mean, whether you're born with your father being
180
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:59.000
a brickie labor or you're born with
your father being an ex aristocrat, you
181
00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:03.840
still grow up in Australi. It
was a certain perspective on life, a
182
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:10.519
certain way of seeing things, which
you know connects us and it's absolutely you
183
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:14.240
know, you can you can talk
through that, which I think is one
184
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:21.759
of the great things about Australia for
me. You know, there are from
185
00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:25.759
time to time, you know,
we're invited to a concert or I guess
186
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:32.119
the last one some friends of ours
open renovated their church. I think that
187
00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:37.880
that was the last one. And
we're there and the Czech cardinal is there,
188
00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:41.119
and really because of my position,
I get introduced to the cardinal.
189
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:49.799
I'm sitting at the front, you
know, all of these things and it's
190
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:56.599
it's and it's really nice. I
really enjoyed actually the beautiful church. It's
191
00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:03.039
from the sixteenth century by one of
the top Czech architects at the time who
192
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:08.319
was Italian named Santini. And they
they've they've got it. They're living in
193
00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.279
the country, but they've got this
enormous church in the backyard. Eddie,
194
00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:18.519
I think in a weird way.
It's music and Perth that are probably going
195
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.160
to tie you guys together, because
you both seem to get into punk rock
196
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.599
and the kind of Perth scene at
the time. What's the piece of music
197
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.960
we could play to to represent that
time? You think, Eddie, let's
198
00:18:30.960 --> 00:19:03.000
read, Bob Let's h m hm, Hi, let's go. Even though
199
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:11.519
you've got such different backgrounds from similar
areas, you were brought together by that.
200
00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:22.039
The sounds of punk rock in Australia's
already overheated western city thing Earth is
201
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.839
sort of a good example of what
happens in global warming. You just get
202
00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:32.400
really hot and then get hotter.
But if you want to go for Perth,
203
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.279
I might go for the scientist.
We had love. So let's go
204
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.640
back to Perth and hear the nostalgic
sounds of the scientists, good old sort
205
00:19:41.640 --> 00:20:26.759
of punk let's Oh yes, well
not by walking into let me say,
206
00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:33.200
I can't amage you how to believe, but I know about shoe. Were
207
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:45.079
out of the house. We had
no house, We had no
1
00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:10.039
After last week's story featuring Dominic's return
to Prague and the reclaiming of the family
2
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:14.640
castle, it seemed appropriate to have
a discussion about the pros and cons of
3
00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:20.160
communism, especially with Red Eddie on
the panel. I just wanted to bring
4
00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:24.480
it back to Perth, like you
two guys are both from Perth. Now.
5
00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:31.039
Dominic's father was a bus driver who
was a Czech count and he had
6
00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:36.000
to reinvent himself as a bus driver
when Communism came in. No, he
7
00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:41.159
did as a bus driver and then
he actually became a school teacher and finally
8
00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:46.200
principal, so he was only a
bus driver while he was studying. That's
9
00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:52.240
Australia for you, Dominique, that's
the career path bus driver school. But
10
00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.000
Eddie, my father didn't have to
reinvente himself at all. He was a
11
00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.679
bricklayer in Yugoslavia. He was a
bricklayer when he was in Perth as well.
12
00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:03.400
Thing we've got no royal connections or
anything like that. There was a
13
00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:07.439
king of Yugoslavia, but that was
a long long time ago, so there's
14
00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:15.959
no royal connection for us. The
history of communism isn't that straightforward. But
15
00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:19.640
for my sake as well as your's. He's a thirty second Internet based summary.
16
00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.920
The word seems to come from an
eighteen forty eight pamphlet, the Communist
17
00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:27.599
Manifesto, written by the well known
car Marks and lesser known Frederick Engels.
18
00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:33.879
Communism is a political ideology and type
of government in which the state owns the
19
00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:37.840
major resources, including property, factory, schools, farms, and transportation.
20
00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:42.799
In communism, everyone shares the benefits
of labor equally and eliminates the class system
21
00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:49.640
through the redistribution of wealth. These
ideas have been around for a while and
22
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:56.200
were part of revolutionary Europe. The
Russians adopted the Manifesto after their revolution in
23
00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:04.000
nineteen seventeen, and from there on
it gets a bit weird. National Czechoslovakia
24
00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:07.240
became a communist satellite state of Russia
in a coupdutar after World War II in
25
00:02:07.360 --> 00:02:12.759
nineteen forty eight. Eight days after
the Berlin War fell in nineteen eighty nine,
26
00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:16.560
there was a Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia, which eventually split into the Czech
27
00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:23.080
Republic and the Slovak Republic in nineteen
ninety two. So there you have it.
28
00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:52.159
It's a long time since the Velvet
Revolution. Let's go back to Dominique,
29
00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:55.599
who did experience the Velvet Revolution in
Prague and what was it like at
30
00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:00.520
that point. Well, I didn't
experience the Velvet Revolution. I came a
31
00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:06.280
little bit after, so I was
about a few months later. I arrived
32
00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:16.159
in Czechoslovakia in March of nineteen ninety
and that was quite an experience. The
33
00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:21.680
first thing that hit me was the
confusion on the border. The guards didn't
34
00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:23.960
know whether to let me in or
not, and in the end they just
35
00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:31.719
sort of looked at each other very
confusedly, going Australian and what do we
36
00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:36.199
do with that? And then they
just gave up and gave me a stamp
37
00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:43.680
and let me in. It was
a time of great optimism. People really
38
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:52.360
were joyful with the possibilities. At
the same time, nothing really worked.
39
00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:55.840
If you wanted to get anything done, you had to sort of find a
40
00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:00.000
way to get around it. And
I would say, if you want to
41
00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:04.319
really look at what's one of the
main differences between Prague then and Prague now,
42
00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:11.199
it really is that that focus and
development of trying to make things a
43
00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:15.360
little bit easier, trying to help
people. You know, it's easier to
44
00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:19.680
run a business now, for example, there's a lot more schools, there's
45
00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:26.560
private schools, there's a lot more
opportunity you can. You know. At
46
00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:30.600
the moment, for example, they're
just introducing a digital nomad visa. So
47
00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:34.800
there are all sorts of things happening
in Prague where it's become a very modern
48
00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:43.879
city. When I arrived, it
hadn't been discovered yet, so you know,
49
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:48.560
really walking around in Prague it was
empty, weren't really many tourists at
50
00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:54.079
all, And now we're dealing with
something like one hundred million a year,
51
00:04:55.639 --> 00:05:00.199
and the streets of Prague at packed, and it's and the tourists bring very
52
00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:04.480
much of a party atmosphere. A
lot of the English coming over for their
53
00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:14.160
stagnites. They're very unpopular with that. I can imagine it's on steroids again.
54
00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:21.000
Yeah, let's get onto communism,
because how much nostalgia is there now
55
00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:28.920
for communism after all this that's happened, and there are some negatives with whatever
56
00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.759
the hell you've got there now?
Capitalism, I spose, yeah, I
57
00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:38.519
mean, I would say definitely it's
a pretty capitalistic society, if I could
58
00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:44.079
put it like that. I think
Europe generally has a very sort of socialist
59
00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:53.680
sort of underpinning too, you know, basically healthcare, employment security. I'm
60
00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:57.279
working in a global company, so
I very much see the differences, say
61
00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:01.560
between the job security in the US
and the job security in Europe. There's
62
00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:11.639
sort of nostalgia for what was it
is there communism, the Communist Party,
63
00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:17.839
they're not They've really lost support over
the last few years. There was a
64
00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:21.040
time where they were actually getting into
the parliament, they were getting the ten
65
00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:26.519
percent of the votes, but that's
gone down in recent times because of the
66
00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:32.199
situation with Ukraine. There's a lot
of Russian propaganda coming in and this is
67
00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.360
happening maybe more in Slovakia or more
effectively in Slovakia than it is in the
68
00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:45.040
Czech Republic, but really pushing that
nationalistic line, pushing that what was once
69
00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:49.439
called pan Slavism, as the idea
that you know, we're more connected with
70
00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:58.439
Russia and we are sick of the
capitalist West and especially the sort of the
71
00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:04.040
liberal approach. This I've been hearing
this from politicians in Slovakia, you know,
72
00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:12.480
the very against the LGBTQ. So
they really utilize that and it's really
73
00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:16.120
been a lot of it's being financed
by Russia. How close are you to
74
00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:23.199
the war Dominique physically, probably like
the distance between Adelaide and Sydney would be
75
00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:33.399
physical distance. It's not something we
really feel there. You know, at
76
00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:38.439
the beginning of the war there was
you could really feel the impact because a
77
00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:44.560
lot of people brought in Ukrainians into
their houses. Can I just set a
78
00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:48.160
point about the idea of nostalgia in
communism because I found that well through my
79
00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:54.120
experience there was nostalgia for Communism based
on which side of the fence you were
80
00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.439
on. If you were high end
member of the Communist Party, where you'd
81
00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:01.160
always bemoan the loss of the of
communism because all of your privileges were gone
82
00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:05.120
and thrown out the window. But
if you were anti Communists, well it
83
00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:09.519
was a good day for you.
So I think generally there's well in my
84
00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:13.040
experience now, based on what was
going on in Yugoslavia and the breakup of
85
00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.800
Yugoslavia, there was not much sympathy
or empathy for Communism, but there's still
86
00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:22.199
going to be relics of people that
are that still are attached to the ideas
87
00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:28.399
of communism based on what they had
within Yugoslavia. It's probably similar in Czechoslovakia.
88
00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:33.120
As well. The people that had
great privileges within the Communist Party within
89
00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:39.440
Czechoslovakia are probably very sympathetic and nostalgic
about communism. I would actually say it
90
00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:46.279
slightly differently because a lot of the
people who had the advantages, they went
91
00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:52.960
on and took positions where they had
a lot of advantages in the new regime,
92
00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:58.879
so they're not so nostalgic in that
way. The people who are more
93
00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:09.799
nostalgic more of the people in the
villagers who really appreciated the simplicity of life
94
00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:16.320
within communism. They don't have a
desire for great luxuries. They really you
95
00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:24.000
know, basically in communism you could
holiday in ex Yugoslavia, so as long
96
00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:28.000
as you had that holiday, that's
all you wanted, or you didn't even
97
00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.559
want to go outside of the country, and then life was simple. Everyone
98
00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:37.440
pretty much had a low income,
but with that income, you know,
99
00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.200
if you spent carefully, you had
a good life. Well, I guess
100
00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:46.799
the other thing is that a lot
of those former politicians that were existing under
101
00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.440
the communist system, whether it was
in Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union,
102
00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:56.919
wherever it was, they ended up
reinventing themselves anywhere and coming back into Parliament
103
00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:01.679
under a different name or a different
position or different situations. So I guess
104
00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:07.919
those people probably just reinvented themselves and
had those same privileges that they had before.
105
00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:13.960
But the thing that I noticed when
I was in Slovakia the day after
106
00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:18.919
it became after it separated from Czechoslovakia, and the other thing that I noticed
107
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:24.399
over there was that because communism was
deemed to be so bad, generally,
108
00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:26.600
they deemed that doing the opposite must
be good. So that's why I ended
109
00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:31.360
up getting high end capitalism or unbridle
capitalism, game shows and all these sort
110
00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.320
of things. It was almost like, we don't want to be reminded of
111
00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.360
that, but doing the opposite must
be good if that was so bad.
112
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.600
And I think that has developed into
other issues as well. The unbridal capitalism
113
00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:50.039
in Czech Czech here, or in
Slovakia or in Russia. Croatia had similar
114
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.799
issues as well. So it's almost
like we're doing the opposite of what we
115
00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.600
used to do now because that was
so bad, but it's not necessarily so
116
00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:03.720
good now. What you're talking about
is definitely the nineties. That was that
117
00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:07.600
period of really unbridled capitalism, and
you know, there were a lot of
118
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:16.000
forces coming up against each other trying
to basically create the new power centers which
119
00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:20.879
are running the country right. Russia
is a very different situation because they have
120
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:31.879
so many natural new sources. Karl
Marx's version of communism Marxism was also called
121
00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:39.919
scientific socialism. Everyday non scientific socialism
is theoretically less violent and more utopian.
122
00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:43.240
And back in Australia, rather unexpectedly, the first socialist party to be elected
123
00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:48.360
to government was in eighteen ninety nine, when the Australian Labor Party briefly won
124
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:56.519
government in Queensland. They didn't last
long, all right. So we've talked
125
00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:01.600
around pride now and a bit about
communist but I did put it to dominicque
126
00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:07.879
earlier, like communism good or bad? Are we able to quickly summarize the
127
00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:13.639
whole thing. Eddie is a political
commentator in Australia and he's definitely from the
128
00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:20.120
left, so he knows about this, but in an Australian context perhaps really
129
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.879
so, what do you say?
Well, again, bringing it back to
130
00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.679
my father, My father did live
under communism in Yugoslavia, and I can
131
00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.120
remember studying economics at high school and
I had a conversation with my father and
132
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.960
said, oh, communism, I
think that could be a good thing.
133
00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:37.759
And he said to me, well, it's a great thing on paper,
134
00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:41.720
but it just doesn't work in practice. And that's the big problem. And
135
00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.279
there's a lot of there's a lot
of problems with communism. If it was
136
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:48.360
such a fantastic system, well it
would have survived up until this day.
137
00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:54.240
Now I know that it still exists
in China. Communism in China is probably
138
00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:58.519
the best best example of communism,
but everywhere else it just didn't work in
139
00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:03.559
Eastern Europe. And sure, humanity's
got the history of being able to do
140
00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:05.519
all of these human experiments and try
and work them out. But generally,
141
00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:11.000
the perception that I received, and
the feeling that I got from speaking to
142
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:15.639
relatives and family members was that it
was the largest concentration camp in human history,
143
00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:18.639
and they were happy to see the
end of it. Yeah. I
144
00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:24.000
think it's funny because my dad basically
gave me the same feedback on communism as
145
00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:31.799
Eddie. It's good on paper,
but no way. And you know,
146
00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:43.080
I sort of I also looked at
communism at high school and beauty and I
147
00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:46.679
must have been what it looks like
on paper is good. It was funny.
148
00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:50.639
My wife was doing a course fairly
recently and she had to read the
149
00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:56.879
Communist Manifesto and she said, sounds
good. I still hate Marxism though.
150
00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:07.080
For one, Communism in Soviet Russia
was a pretty mixed up sort of place
151
00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:11.159
to have communism. It doesn't fit
in with Marxist theory very well. So
152
00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.559
you know, you could say,
well, maybe it wasn't real communism.
153
00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:24.200
Communism to me is just maybe it's
just too extreme. When I look at
154
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:31.200
a lot of the socialist countries within
Europe, there's a pretty good lifestyle and
155
00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:39.759
you know, they're maintaining things in
a really comfortable good way. People are
156
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.440
happy, people are pretty satisfied.
Yeah, I better give my summary.
157
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:48.600
So, having recently read a history
of Moscow, it goes way back to
158
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.240
Attila Vera Hunt and all that before
that. It just seems like a continual
159
00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.840
same thing, like a new person
comes in and Stalin and all that were
160
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:03.159
just the same and had a slightly
different name. But wow, they've had
161
00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:07.399
a difficult time in Moscow. The
government, you know, as the Russians
162
00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:11.000
had a saying themselves. You know, the government were lying to us,
163
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:16.440
and we pretended to believe the lies. You know, that was just a
164
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:24.159
given. But what's happening now is
more it's coming back. You know,
165
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.480
there was a lot of good journalists
in Russia and there was a lot of
166
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:33.039
open press in Russia that has been
destroyed over the past years. And this
167
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:39.080
is really Putchin has transformed really in
the last twenty years into a completely new
168
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.360
narrative in Russia. When I said
completely new, but going back to that
169
00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:50.639
old school sort of thing, he
very much. You know, he's reinvented
170
00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:56.279
Stalin. Stalin is now a national
hero. That'd be a hard sell anyway.
171
00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:03.320
I mean, just to wind up
a check royalty nobility and even that's
172
00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:11.120
a bit embarrassed. Yeah, that's
check nobility. What was the last thing
173
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.480
you did? Like, what have
you done? Rightly? You know,
174
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:22.480
in the last twenty years, things
have changed a lot. My father passed
175
00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:30.120
away, so there's really all there's
been a huge transformation with his generation because
176
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:36.200
his generation they're all past it,
they're dying out and they're the ones who
177
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:41.519
really remember it and know at least
what was going on. And for me,
178
00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:47.399
you know, I've still brought up
in Australia, so I think you
179
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:52.120
know, with Eddie, I mean, whether you're born with your father being
180
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:59.000
a brickie labor or you're born with
your father being an ex aristocrat, you
181
00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:03.840
still grow up in Australi. It
was a certain perspective on life, a
182
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:10.519
certain way of seeing things, which
you know connects us and it's absolutely you
183
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:14.240
know, you can you can talk
through that, which I think is one
184
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:21.759
of the great things about Australia for
me. You know, there are from
185
00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:25.759
time to time, you know,
we're invited to a concert or I guess
186
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:32.119
the last one some friends of ours
open renovated their church. I think that
187
00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:37.880
that was the last one. And
we're there and the Czech cardinal is there,
188
00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:41.119
and really because of my position,
I get introduced to the cardinal.
189
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:49.799
I'm sitting at the front, you
know, all of these things and it's
190
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:56.599
it's and it's really nice. I
really enjoyed actually the beautiful church. It's
191
00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:03.039
from the sixteenth century by one of
the top Czech architects at the time who
192
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:08.319
was Italian named Santini. And they
they've they've got it. They're living in
193
00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.279
the country, but they've got this
enormous church in the backyard. Eddie,
194
00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:18.519
I think in a weird way.
It's music and Perth that are probably going
195
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.160
to tie you guys together, because
you both seem to get into punk rock
196
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.599
and the kind of Perth scene at
the time. What's the piece of music
197
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.960
we could play to to represent that
time? You think, Eddie, let's
198
00:18:30.960 --> 00:19:03.000
read, Bob Let's h m hm, Hi, let's go. Even though
199
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:11.519
you've got such different backgrounds from similar
areas, you were brought together by that.
200
00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:22.039
The sounds of punk rock in Australia's
already overheated western city thing Earth is
201
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.839
sort of a good example of what
happens in global warming. You just get
202
00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:32.400
really hot and then get hotter.
But if you want to go for Perth,
203
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.279
I might go for the scientist.
We had love. So let's go
204
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.640
back to Perth and hear the nostalgic
sounds of the scientists, good old sort
205
00:19:41.640 --> 00:20:26.759
of punk let's Oh yes, well
not by walking into let me say,
206
00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:33.200
I can't amage you how to believe, but I know about shoe. Were
207
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:45.079
out of the house. We had
no house, We had no
