00:03 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
We believe that every American community must jealously guard the freedom to publish and to circulate in order to preserve its own freedom to read. We believe that publishers and librarians have a profound responsibility to give validity to that freedom to read by making it possible for the readers to choose freely from a variety of offerings. The freedom to read is guaranteed by the Constitution. Those with faith in free people will stand firm on these constitutional guarantees of essential rights and will exercise the responsibilities that accompany these rights. Sounds like something that you would hear today. Right, this was actually published by the American Library Association on June 25th 1953. But today we're facing unprecedented challenges to the freedom to read across the country, in public and school libraries, everywhere. And in the middle of that fray comes a beautiful new picture book by Beth Ferry.
01:02
And so today, on the Adventures in Learning podcast, we're going to be talking about Roar for Reading as well as many other topics. So, beth, welcome to the show. Thanks, diane. Thanks for having me. So you just heard me read from the 1953 ALA statement. Roar for Reading just popped into the middle of all this. Where did it come from?
01:23 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Right, and you know it's funny, I have never read that statement and it really makes you wonder, in 1953, what was happening, you know, because for them to write that, or if they were just being like proactive, like, you know, prescient, how do you say that word?
01:36 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
I think it was. I think it was the McCarthy era would be my guess. It's sort of post-World War II. We were booming and we were entering the Cold War. That would be my guess as to where this is coming from.
01:48 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
But yes, yeah, it is, it's.
01:50 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
I don't know.
01:51 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
It. Just it really does Like cause you're like we live in America, like you feel this way, like America, you know, land of the free, and books are, whatever a big, huge part of everyone's life. You know, even if they don't like to read, they're reading. So Roar for Reading was really inspired by, like, this little guy. Like I got I was sent a sketch of a lion, of the little lion and his dad, and they had books and the idea was to write like kind of a love letter to libraries. And how lions are you know for me. When I saw that I'm like, oh, of course lions, because like that's how we think of when we think of a lion, you know, outside the New York Public Library, they kind of feel like they're protecting it, even though, you know, do they need protecting? Because you kind of, but yeah, maybe they do.
02:41
So I wasn't really planning on writing a book about book banning, but as I was writing it, I just I think it must be in my subconscious. I know it's happening, I'm reading about it in the times, but I'm not really worrying about it in where I live because it's not happening really anywhere close to me. But then you know, when you really just think about like, wait a minute, like who is anyone to tell anyone that they can't read a book? And believe me, I'm all for parents, you know, of course you know. But but it really I mean to to take it out of the library.
03:16
And when you think about libraries, you know Free books, it's just, I mean, I'm pretty it, I was like it's just not okay and I believe that everyone has a say for what their own children read. But that's not what's happening and it's a scary thing to think that you know there's so much bad out there. You know, when you think about social media, you think about gun control, all the things, and don't you want to be like maybe that's where our focus should be, not on banning books, I don't know. So I haven't really shared this with a class, I haven't had the opportunity yet to read it to kids in a class or have a discussion, but I'm excited to, because I'm really interested to see what kids think about the whole, you know, idea of banning books.
04:25 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Well, and I know that from a library point of view, there are so many people I've talked to. You know authors, scientists, people who are teachers, people who are athletes. You know wide range of people who. They got their start and their love for books at their public library. You know, maybe money wasn't plentiful growing up, but there was this haven, this safe place where you could find something. And you know, one of the things we talk about is not everything in the library is for everybody. But you know, just because I don't happen to like books about basketball doesn't mean that all the books about basketball should come out of the library.
05:08 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
I think right and I think that is the best part right Is that you know, you, you, first of all, you can't know everything. You can't, it's not possible. Like, and when you walk into the library and there's so many books, and you think like, wow, like what a testament to our culture that there are so many people writing so many books. And you know, I always say, like, why do I write the books that I write? I don't know, like, something inspires me, something piques my interest.
05:35
And that happens to all these other different people. You know their experience, you know sparks an idea. And it just is, it's like, not only do you get a peek into the world and you know the windows and mirrors, you know, analogy is so beautiful because, like, I mean, I think of half the like, especially when you're a kid, and you're like, wow, oh, like, oh, that's, that's like. Oh, I didn't even know that could be or happen. And I just think that the books that they're trying to ban, you know, might not be the book that I need, but you know, it's pretty much a book somebody needs.
06:11 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Exactly, and it wouldn't have been written if there wasn't a need, because it spoke to that author and there is somebody out there who needs to receive it.
06:20 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
You know, when they say, like reading reminds you that you're not alone in the world, and I think that that's the most true statement, because I think when you're a child or even a teenager, you really sometimes think you're the only person going through something, because most of the time it's not something great, so you're not sharing it freely with your friends, you're not admitting to it, and so where are you going to get that affirmation that you need? You know, if you can't speak about it, you can get it from the book, and that's why I don't know, just it does. I feel like what we're doing is the wrong thing, or what the people and I do. I'm so proud when I hear about these librarians, like the librarians that are truly. Their lives are being ruined, which is another yes, standing up for books, because you know somebody has to.
07:09 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Absolutely, and let's talk a little bit about Roar for Reading, because you and Andrew have done an amazing job in taking this giant issue and bringing it down where it's not only understandable for younger readers, but you're offering a blueprint so that it's not just this is terrible, but you can roar. There's literally something you can do, right. So I'm wondering if you can share a little bit about the book itself and maybe about what it means to roar.
07:37 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Yeah, so I think you know it's set in a library and so the main character, julius, is the son of the librarian and she gets a letter. And it's a character Julius is the son of the librarian and she gets a letter, and it's a small town idea. You know where the letter comes in the mail and it's a list of books that the mayor's asking her to take off the shelf. And so you know, she's, of course, you know, upset and she takes Julius with her to go to the and to the meet the mayor, and the mayor is this like little frog, and I love this little frog so much because, I agree, I just don't know how Andrew came up with like, oh, let's have a frog with like a mustache as the mayor, but it feels right, it feels like somebody small-minded, like maybe a frog would be, and she tries to explain her point of view and he explains. You know he doesn't explain, but he, you know, basically says you have to do it and since the library, you know, so she takes the books off the shelf.
08:29
And I think so much of life is, you know, you don't really know till it happens to you, which is sad but true. And so Julius like starts to worry are they going to take away my favorite books? Like who gets to say? And so he gets upset and he roars. And the whole history of the libraries is that lions did protect the libraries but then they didn't need to anymore because we live in a free country so they forgot they could roar. So once he roars his mother's like his mother can see, like I can't just do it, I have to fight it. And so they fight and they rally and they call other book lovers and they march and they protest.
09:11
And you know it's funny because like there is a little acronym at the end of the book that is like you know what you can do. It's like with the roar. You know it's recognized that there's been a book ban, organized together, act and respect. I think the respect part is my most favorite one because you know you don't have to like the book, it still can exist. You know, like even if 500 people, 1,000 people don't like the book, that doesn't mean it can't exist. So it just kind of tells kids that they, you know, can speak to their adults and they can say like this isn't okay. And hopefully this is a picture book, so it's for the youngest readers, but hopefully, you know, they'll at least understand that they do have, you know, a say.
09:57 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
And I was thinking it might be affirming for the parent or the librarian or the teacher reading the book to the child as well. Just a reminder that you have agency and that you can help do something.
10:09 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Right Especially and I think there are especially think thing about most. Not every kid loves to read, but when you're young and you're reading picture books and you're reading early chapter books, most of them are you know they're happier books, you know they're happy endings and good things. So I think that children feel strongly about their books and you know, probably unless it's happening in their town, they don't even know that this can happen, and so I think it's also good to understand the broader picture of the world and that it's not.
10:41 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
you know there are things happening out there that can affect them and they might not even know about it. Well, and one of the things that I know is I've been thinking about freedom to read and I've been working with librarians A big issue is not the actual challenge itself, but the chilling effect that happens when fear creeps in and you start thinking I'm not going to get that book because somebody might challenge it. So then it's like compounded, because now there's never a chance for that book to find its audience or that person who might need it.
11:10 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
That's a really good point. Yeah, you're right, I mean, and I think, when you see what's the one, I just read an article yesterday in the Times about this specific librarian who was receiving, you know, death threats over her standing up for not having not pulling books off the shelves, and you really do you think. How does anybody think that that's the answer? Exactly?
11:34 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
And it's a very small group of people and I think that's the other piece to comfort and assure kids about is that truly the bulk of the challenges in the country are coming from a very small group of people who do not speak for the rest of the country, right and yet you know I do.
11:51 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
This is the other problem, though. Right, they're getting a lot of attention and I think sometimes, when you know we do focus on the negative in the media and things, then it seems like it is a bigger problem. You know that it is lots of people. When you really start reading, you're like, oh, it's like 10 parents you know went to the school board 10, you know everybody else isn't, isn't there, because you know what they're home and you know it's. It's easy to get busy in your life and not realize, oh, I got to do something.
12:20 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
I have to be aware of what's happening and so hopefully, roar for Reading will inspire folks to be aware of what's happening and to keep an eye on it, because you want your children to have the opportunity to find the book that connects to them, that they need.
12:35 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Exactly, I totally agree.
12:37 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Yeah.
12:37 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Or that, even if just makes them become a reader, they might not even need a book to like you know, with anything they're struggling with, but they just need a book to love so that they read more books.
12:47 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Exactly, and that's what we want ultimately is a nation of readers. I know we would be much better off right, exactly. So Roar for Reading was not the only book you had come out recently. It's the one we're celebrating its birthday and it's sort of the month that we're aware of banned books, and I'll drop a lot of resources in the show notes for folks if you want to learn more about what you can do. But let's talk about a beautiful little book of yours that came out this summer that maybe didn't get quite the book birthday she deserved, since everybody was on summer vacation, it's true. So you had a book come out called Prunella, and I thought that was just such a gorgeous book for being your own self, for not being afraid to be different and for building relationships. So talk a little bit about Prunella, sure.
13:37 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Thanks, yeah, so Prunella came to me because I got a seed catalog in the mail you know one of those garden catalogs and on the back there was a plant called Prunella, which and you know, it's funny now because now that I know more I think Prunella was a character on the Arthur series, but I didn't remember that. But I saw that it's a purple flower and I think it's like, you know, an herb that was used in medicines and I thought what a good name, what a good name. And I have a plant in my backyard that doesn't smell nice and attracts all the flies and I thought, you know, it's so interesting, like the plant is so strange looking and it's purple and long, and it made me think like, oh, I wonder if Prunella would like a weird plant like that. And so what? I love so much about writing picture books that I'm writing fiction. But I do so much research when, no matter what, I mean the war for reading I did a lot of research into book banning and what's happening and how the numbers are climbing. But for Prunella I learned all about, you know, poisonous plants and carnivorous plants and how plants protect themselves, which you don't really think about, like you when you think about a rose and the thorns, you're just thinking inconvenient, you're not thinking, oh, it's protecting itself.
14:57
So she basically just is born with a purple thumb and her parents have green thumbs and they're kind of like, hmm, what does this mean? And you know, they discover that she likes all these strange things. So they help her plant her strange garden, which doesn't endear her to any of the you know schoolyard friends or the neighborhood friends. And so she kind of just, you know, feels alone and she goes to school and she's alone. And then one day someone else asks her a question about their Venus flytrap and she's like, oh, could someone else? And it's kind of the same thing, like, you kind of think you're alone, you think you're alone until all of a sudden you realize oh, there are other people just like me. And so she discovers this whole tribe of people that like bugs and that like other plants, and she comes out of her shell and she, you know, finds her. You know her. What do they call it? You find your crew, you find your team.
15:50
Yeah, and so it's kind of you know, of course it ends happy and she's happy and she doesn't have to sacrifice what she loves, which I think is the most important part.
15:58 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
And that's one of, I think, the best lessons we can give our kids is that it's okay to be an individual and to love the things that you love, whether they seem strange to somebody else or not.
16:14 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Which, and I think too, you know, when you grow up I mean maybe not so much now with social media and there's so much, you know, interconnectivity, but when you, you know, you grow up eating the food that you eat, you know and you just think, oh, this is the food that people eat you kind of extrapolate out without any knowledge that the world is not just like your house, and so and I think that's what another thing books do it lets you know at a younger age that there's lots of different homes and houses and foods and experiences and traditions that you, because you really do when you're little, you just think you're everyone's doing what you're doing, and it's not true.
16:48 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Well, and that's another power of books, because you just mentioned social media and, honestly, the algorithm is a bubble chamber. It's like an echo chamber. It's literally giving you people like you or things like you, and so it's reinforcing that bias, and so when you've got a book and you've got exposure to things that might be different you're actually maybe getting that first step into looking for the beauty and difference Right and you don't have to do it.
17:20 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
You don't have to, you know, not celebrate Christmas or not eat pizza, you know, but I don't know. I just it's think I love the idea that it's a big world, you know, because I think sometimes you live in a small world when you're small and it's such a big world and it's nice to know that you know early on if possible.
17:34 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
So, as you were doing your research for Prunella, did you find a favorite creepy plant or insect?
17:41 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
You know it's funny, I bought myself a Venus flytrap. Can you keep it alive? I've been keeping it alive, but now you know, I I take it outside. I take it inside Like I will see flies like around it, but never going in it. And I'm thinking like so now, sometimes when there's a fly in the house, I try to like wound it. I'm trying to wound a tiny fly so I can feed it to my Venus flytrap. But I'm truly enjoying the whole experience of like the Venus flytrap. But I did learn I had one as a kid, but you know you have to do certain things that I wasn't doing. So now I know more and I am. I've kept it alive now for like four months, so I'm so excited. That's impressive.
18:23 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
And you're not feeding it with your own blood. We don't have to worry about little shop of horrors.
18:30 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
I know, I know Again even that the imagination of that is so awesome, like people's imaginations, I don't know. I'm blown away all the time by people's imaginations absolutely so.
18:40 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
You've got Prunella out, you've got Roar for reading out. What other magic can we expect from Beth Ferry in the next year or so?
18:48 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
so yeah, in October I have a book coming out called A Moving Story, which I can go get Should.
18:53 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
I go get it, go get it. I'll pause it right now.
18:58 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
So it's called A Moving Story and I wrote it with my stick and stone, illustrator Tom Lichtenheld, and it's illustrated by Tom Booth. And look at that little panda bear. Oh my gosh.
19:08 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Oh my gosh, Look at those eyes.
19:11 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
So cute. So it's a story about moving and Tom Lichtenheld had moved a few years ago and he told me this story about the moving truck driving away and he's watching it drive away with all his stuff and suddenly it stops and the mover gets out of the truck and he moves something out of the street, Then it gets back in the car and leaves. So Tom goes out to see what he moves and he can see it was a little worm and he was like, did that guy just stop to not run over a worm? And right, it just seemed so like who would do that. But the whole you know the idea of this big burly man like caring about a worm.
19:51
So he was telling me the story. He's like, oh, I think there's a book idea here, and so we wrote it together, which was super fun. And then, yeah, so it's just about taking care of it. No one's too nothing's too small to treat right, you know, to treat nicely. And so it's just a book about taking care of the things that you have, and even the things that aren't yours. So it's, it's sweet, it's fun.
20:13 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
That feels like that might be a theme in your writing lately.
20:17 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Taking care of things, no matter that, whether they're big or small, yeah, I think I think themes are so interesting because when you're, you know, sitting down with your story and you're writing it, you're not really thinking about, you're not? You're, you know, you're thinking about the other books you've written. You're kind of, you know, worried about that one. So I do. It's interesting when you kind of look at the books that I've written, I'm kind of like, oh, I really like pets and I really like friendships and I really like the things that I write a lot about without meaning to really not specifically.
20:49 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Well, and that would make me think that those are part of what moves you as a human being, because we write about the things that we're passionate about. So I would guess, if I would say something about Beth Ferry, that you are somebody who's very engaged in your world and that you really care about making a difference.
21:09 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Yeah, that's super nice and yeah, I think I hope you know, I think that you know you do you write for children because you want. I really my biggest goal is that they read one of my books and then want to read another book, not even mine, just want to read because you know, you hear so many times that kids aren't readers and I think, oh God, they're missing out, like, they're missing out, like you just don't want them to miss out Because you know you do age out of certain things and you don't want them to like you do you want to be like, don't read this now, like and then read it again and you'll get a whole different experience when you're older and you know. So I hope that my books make kids want to read other books.
21:49 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Well, and you're right about. You want them to engage when they're older. I think I was telling you earlier I'm teaching this first year seminar at Shenandoah this semester and we're talking about bringing picture books to life. So these are 18 year olds, 19 year olds and for many of them, you know, it's been a long time since they've held a picture book in their hands, and for some of them, I'm realizing they may never have held truly held a picture book in their hands, and so are they loving it. I put out books like we're talking about windows, mirrors and sliding glass doors, and every class there's like an array of books from the shelves behind me that they're reading and examining, and so I was watching class on Tuesday and just smiling because they're sitting there reading aloud to each other and talking about the books. And, oh my gosh, that looks like me and my, my TA, Riley, looks at me and goes this has to be the most wholesome class on campus.
22:45 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
I thought oh my God, I know it's like. It's like getting to be a kid. It's like it's like getting to be a kid, it's like going to class and getting to be a kid again. And yet also discovering that some of the themes are big, exactly that.
22:58 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
It's so much deeper, even than you first realized when you were exposed to the book in preschool or kindergarten or first grade. And I hope if we give any people anything to think about today, it's go to your library, pick out a picture book you've never seen before and just sit on the floor and read it.
23:15 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Because I think, I do think, I think sometimes, like when I go to the bookstore with Tom Lichtenheld, we'll sometimes read the same book and we always he is looking at the pictures first because he's an illustrator and I am so looking at the pictures first because he's an illustrator and I am so looking at the pictures second. So it's like cause, you know, I always, I always read you have to read them more than once, in my opinion and so when I'm reading it, I'm really reading it for the story first, because that's how I start, and then I look at the pictures. I mean, you're kind of doing it together but focusing on that, and I find it really interesting because you know, most of the time obviously they go together, but you know it is. It is like it's you're getting two treats in one.
23:57 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
You're really getting a story like that's told through the words, and then you're getting the story that's told through the pictures, which is so fun, and I often encourage kids to try to read something three times, you know, read it once for the words, once for the pictures and then once to see how they work together, because sometimes the pictures extend and enhance in ways that the author may not have intended, and so it's fun to see how that works together to create a full story.
24:24 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
It's so true because I do love. I love the books where the words, the pictures are telling the opposite of the words. Yes, and that to me, you know, when I'm writing I'm always like I know that it's going to be illustrated, but still I feel like I have to tell a story that can be read, you know, like standalone, be like a full story alone, and but one of my goals is to write, is to write a story where the pictures tell a totally different story, because those books are brilliant and I enjoy reading and they're so much fun.
24:54 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
So much fun. Well, beth, thank you so much for joining us on the Adventures in Learning podcast. Happy book birthday to you for reading and Pradella, and we can't wait to see moving the movie story.
25:07 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Thank you.
We believe that every American community must jealously guard the freedom to publish and to circulate in order to preserve its own freedom to read. We believe that publishers and librarians have a profound responsibility to give validity to that freedom to read by making it possible for the readers to choose freely from a variety of offerings. The freedom to read is guaranteed by the Constitution. Those with faith in free people will stand firm on these constitutional guarantees of essential rights and will exercise the responsibilities that accompany these rights. Sounds like something that you would hear today. Right, this was actually published by the American Library Association on June 25th 1953. But today we're facing unprecedented challenges to the freedom to read across the country, in public and school libraries, everywhere. And in the middle of that fray comes a beautiful new picture book by Beth Ferry.
01:02
And so today, on the Adventures in Learning podcast, we're going to be talking about Roar for Reading as well as many other topics. So, beth, welcome to the show. Thanks, diane. Thanks for having me. So you just heard me read from the 1953 ALA statement. Roar for Reading just popped into the middle of all this. Where did it come from?
01:23 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Right, and you know it's funny, I have never read that statement and it really makes you wonder, in 1953, what was happening, you know, because for them to write that, or if they were just being like proactive, like, you know, prescient, how do you say that word?
01:36 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
I think it was. I think it was the McCarthy era would be my guess. It's sort of post-World War II. We were booming and we were entering the Cold War. That would be my guess as to where this is coming from.
01:48 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
But yes, yeah, it is, it's.
01:50 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
I don't know.
01:51 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
It. Just it really does Like cause you're like we live in America, like you feel this way, like America, you know, land of the free, and books are, whatever a big, huge part of everyone's life. You know, even if they don't like to read, they're reading. So Roar for Reading was really inspired by, like, this little guy. Like I got I was sent a sketch of a lion, of the little lion and his dad, and they had books and the idea was to write like kind of a love letter to libraries. And how lions are you know for me. When I saw that I'm like, oh, of course lions, because like that's how we think of when we think of a lion, you know, outside the New York Public Library, they kind of feel like they're protecting it, even though, you know, do they need protecting? Because you kind of, but yeah, maybe they do.
02:41
So I wasn't really planning on writing a book about book banning, but as I was writing it, I just I think it must be in my subconscious. I know it's happening, I'm reading about it in the times, but I'm not really worrying about it in where I live because it's not happening really anywhere close to me. But then you know, when you really just think about like, wait a minute, like who is anyone to tell anyone that they can't read a book? And believe me, I'm all for parents, you know, of course you know. But but it really I mean to to take it out of the library.
03:16
And when you think about libraries, you know Free books, it's just, I mean, I'm pretty it, I was like it's just not okay and I believe that everyone has a say for what their own children read. But that's not what's happening and it's a scary thing to think that you know there's so much bad out there. You know, when you think about social media, you think about gun control, all the things, and don't you want to be like maybe that's where our focus should be, not on banning books, I don't know. So I haven't really shared this with a class, I haven't had the opportunity yet to read it to kids in a class or have a discussion, but I'm excited to, because I'm really interested to see what kids think about the whole, you know, idea of banning books.
04:25 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Well, and I know that from a library point of view, there are so many people I've talked to. You know authors, scientists, people who are teachers, people who are athletes. You know wide range of people who. They got their start and their love for books at their public library. You know, maybe money wasn't plentiful growing up, but there was this haven, this safe place where you could find something. And you know, one of the things we talk about is not everything in the library is for everybody. But you know, just because I don't happen to like books about basketball doesn't mean that all the books about basketball should come out of the library.
05:08 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
I think right and I think that is the best part right Is that you know, you, you, first of all, you can't know everything. You can't, it's not possible. Like, and when you walk into the library and there's so many books, and you think like, wow, like what a testament to our culture that there are so many people writing so many books. And you know, I always say, like, why do I write the books that I write? I don't know, like, something inspires me, something piques my interest.
05:35
And that happens to all these other different people. You know their experience, you know sparks an idea. And it just is, it's like, not only do you get a peek into the world and you know the windows and mirrors, you know, analogy is so beautiful because, like, I mean, I think of half the like, especially when you're a kid, and you're like, wow, oh, like, oh, that's, that's like. Oh, I didn't even know that could be or happen. And I just think that the books that they're trying to ban, you know, might not be the book that I need, but you know, it's pretty much a book somebody needs.
06:11 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Exactly, and it wouldn't have been written if there wasn't a need, because it spoke to that author and there is somebody out there who needs to receive it.
06:20 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
You know, when they say, like reading reminds you that you're not alone in the world, and I think that that's the most true statement, because I think when you're a child or even a teenager, you really sometimes think you're the only person going through something, because most of the time it's not something great, so you're not sharing it freely with your friends, you're not admitting to it, and so where are you going to get that affirmation that you need? You know, if you can't speak about it, you can get it from the book, and that's why I don't know, just it does. I feel like what we're doing is the wrong thing, or what the people and I do. I'm so proud when I hear about these librarians, like the librarians that are truly. Their lives are being ruined, which is another yes, standing up for books, because you know somebody has to.
07:09 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Absolutely, and let's talk a little bit about Roar for Reading, because you and Andrew have done an amazing job in taking this giant issue and bringing it down where it's not only understandable for younger readers, but you're offering a blueprint so that it's not just this is terrible, but you can roar. There's literally something you can do, right. So I'm wondering if you can share a little bit about the book itself and maybe about what it means to roar.
07:37 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Yeah, so I think you know it's set in a library and so the main character, julius, is the son of the librarian and she gets a letter. And it's a character Julius is the son of the librarian and she gets a letter, and it's a small town idea. You know where the letter comes in the mail and it's a list of books that the mayor's asking her to take off the shelf. And so you know, she's, of course, you know, upset and she takes Julius with her to go to the and to the meet the mayor, and the mayor is this like little frog, and I love this little frog so much because, I agree, I just don't know how Andrew came up with like, oh, let's have a frog with like a mustache as the mayor, but it feels right, it feels like somebody small-minded, like maybe a frog would be, and she tries to explain her point of view and he explains. You know he doesn't explain, but he, you know, basically says you have to do it and since the library, you know, so she takes the books off the shelf.
08:29
And I think so much of life is, you know, you don't really know till it happens to you, which is sad but true. And so Julius like starts to worry are they going to take away my favorite books? Like who gets to say? And so he gets upset and he roars. And the whole history of the libraries is that lions did protect the libraries but then they didn't need to anymore because we live in a free country so they forgot they could roar. So once he roars his mother's like his mother can see, like I can't just do it, I have to fight it. And so they fight and they rally and they call other book lovers and they march and they protest.
09:11
And you know it's funny because like there is a little acronym at the end of the book that is like you know what you can do. It's like with the roar. You know it's recognized that there's been a book ban, organized together, act and respect. I think the respect part is my most favorite one because you know you don't have to like the book, it still can exist. You know, like even if 500 people, 1,000 people don't like the book, that doesn't mean it can't exist. So it just kind of tells kids that they, you know, can speak to their adults and they can say like this isn't okay. And hopefully this is a picture book, so it's for the youngest readers, but hopefully, you know, they'll at least understand that they do have, you know, a say.
09:57 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
And I was thinking it might be affirming for the parent or the librarian or the teacher reading the book to the child as well. Just a reminder that you have agency and that you can help do something.
10:09 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Right Especially and I think there are especially think thing about most. Not every kid loves to read, but when you're young and you're reading picture books and you're reading early chapter books, most of them are you know they're happier books, you know they're happy endings and good things. So I think that children feel strongly about their books and you know, probably unless it's happening in their town, they don't even know that this can happen, and so I think it's also good to understand the broader picture of the world and that it's not.
10:41 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
you know there are things happening out there that can affect them and they might not even know about it. Well, and one of the things that I know is I've been thinking about freedom to read and I've been working with librarians A big issue is not the actual challenge itself, but the chilling effect that happens when fear creeps in and you start thinking I'm not going to get that book because somebody might challenge it. So then it's like compounded, because now there's never a chance for that book to find its audience or that person who might need it.
11:10 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
That's a really good point. Yeah, you're right, I mean, and I think, when you see what's the one, I just read an article yesterday in the Times about this specific librarian who was receiving, you know, death threats over her standing up for not having not pulling books off the shelves, and you really do you think. How does anybody think that that's the answer? Exactly?
11:34 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
And it's a very small group of people and I think that's the other piece to comfort and assure kids about is that truly the bulk of the challenges in the country are coming from a very small group of people who do not speak for the rest of the country, right and yet you know I do.
11:51 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
This is the other problem, though. Right, they're getting a lot of attention and I think sometimes, when you know we do focus on the negative in the media and things, then it seems like it is a bigger problem. You know that it is lots of people. When you really start reading, you're like, oh, it's like 10 parents you know went to the school board 10, you know everybody else isn't, isn't there, because you know what they're home and you know it's. It's easy to get busy in your life and not realize, oh, I got to do something.
12:20 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
I have to be aware of what's happening and so hopefully, roar for Reading will inspire folks to be aware of what's happening and to keep an eye on it, because you want your children to have the opportunity to find the book that connects to them, that they need.
12:35 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Exactly, I totally agree.
12:37 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Yeah.
12:37 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Or that, even if just makes them become a reader, they might not even need a book to like you know, with anything they're struggling with, but they just need a book to love so that they read more books.
12:47 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Exactly, and that's what we want ultimately is a nation of readers. I know we would be much better off right, exactly. So Roar for Reading was not the only book you had come out recently. It's the one we're celebrating its birthday and it's sort of the month that we're aware of banned books, and I'll drop a lot of resources in the show notes for folks if you want to learn more about what you can do. But let's talk about a beautiful little book of yours that came out this summer that maybe didn't get quite the book birthday she deserved, since everybody was on summer vacation, it's true. So you had a book come out called Prunella, and I thought that was just such a gorgeous book for being your own self, for not being afraid to be different and for building relationships. So talk a little bit about Prunella, sure.
13:37 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Thanks, yeah, so Prunella came to me because I got a seed catalog in the mail you know one of those garden catalogs and on the back there was a plant called Prunella, which and you know, it's funny now because now that I know more I think Prunella was a character on the Arthur series, but I didn't remember that. But I saw that it's a purple flower and I think it's like, you know, an herb that was used in medicines and I thought what a good name, what a good name. And I have a plant in my backyard that doesn't smell nice and attracts all the flies and I thought, you know, it's so interesting, like the plant is so strange looking and it's purple and long, and it made me think like, oh, I wonder if Prunella would like a weird plant like that. And so what? I love so much about writing picture books that I'm writing fiction. But I do so much research when, no matter what, I mean the war for reading I did a lot of research into book banning and what's happening and how the numbers are climbing. But for Prunella I learned all about, you know, poisonous plants and carnivorous plants and how plants protect themselves, which you don't really think about, like you when you think about a rose and the thorns, you're just thinking inconvenient, you're not thinking, oh, it's protecting itself.
14:57
So she basically just is born with a purple thumb and her parents have green thumbs and they're kind of like, hmm, what does this mean? And you know, they discover that she likes all these strange things. So they help her plant her strange garden, which doesn't endear her to any of the you know schoolyard friends or the neighborhood friends. And so she kind of just, you know, feels alone and she goes to school and she's alone. And then one day someone else asks her a question about their Venus flytrap and she's like, oh, could someone else? And it's kind of the same thing, like, you kind of think you're alone, you think you're alone until all of a sudden you realize oh, there are other people just like me. And so she discovers this whole tribe of people that like bugs and that like other plants, and she comes out of her shell and she, you know, finds her. You know her. What do they call it? You find your crew, you find your team.
15:50
Yeah, and so it's kind of you know, of course it ends happy and she's happy and she doesn't have to sacrifice what she loves, which I think is the most important part.
15:58 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
And that's one of, I think, the best lessons we can give our kids is that it's okay to be an individual and to love the things that you love, whether they seem strange to somebody else or not.
16:14 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Which, and I think too, you know, when you grow up I mean maybe not so much now with social media and there's so much, you know, interconnectivity, but when you, you know, you grow up eating the food that you eat, you know and you just think, oh, this is the food that people eat you kind of extrapolate out without any knowledge that the world is not just like your house, and so and I think that's what another thing books do it lets you know at a younger age that there's lots of different homes and houses and foods and experiences and traditions that you, because you really do when you're little, you just think you're everyone's doing what you're doing, and it's not true.
16:48 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Well, and that's another power of books, because you just mentioned social media and, honestly, the algorithm is a bubble chamber. It's like an echo chamber. It's literally giving you people like you or things like you, and so it's reinforcing that bias, and so when you've got a book and you've got exposure to things that might be different you're actually maybe getting that first step into looking for the beauty and difference Right and you don't have to do it.
17:20 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
You don't have to, you know, not celebrate Christmas or not eat pizza, you know, but I don't know. I just it's think I love the idea that it's a big world, you know, because I think sometimes you live in a small world when you're small and it's such a big world and it's nice to know that you know early on if possible.
17:34 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
So, as you were doing your research for Prunella, did you find a favorite creepy plant or insect?
17:41 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
You know it's funny, I bought myself a Venus flytrap. Can you keep it alive? I've been keeping it alive, but now you know, I I take it outside. I take it inside Like I will see flies like around it, but never going in it. And I'm thinking like so now, sometimes when there's a fly in the house, I try to like wound it. I'm trying to wound a tiny fly so I can feed it to my Venus flytrap. But I'm truly enjoying the whole experience of like the Venus flytrap. But I did learn I had one as a kid, but you know you have to do certain things that I wasn't doing. So now I know more and I am. I've kept it alive now for like four months, so I'm so excited. That's impressive.
18:23 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
And you're not feeding it with your own blood. We don't have to worry about little shop of horrors.
18:30 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
I know, I know Again even that the imagination of that is so awesome, like people's imaginations, I don't know. I'm blown away all the time by people's imaginations absolutely so.
18:40 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
You've got Prunella out, you've got Roar for reading out. What other magic can we expect from Beth Ferry in the next year or so?
18:48 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
so yeah, in October I have a book coming out called A Moving Story, which I can go get Should.
18:53 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
I go get it, go get it. I'll pause it right now.
18:58 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
So it's called A Moving Story and I wrote it with my stick and stone, illustrator Tom Lichtenheld, and it's illustrated by Tom Booth. And look at that little panda bear. Oh my gosh.
19:08 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Oh my gosh, Look at those eyes.
19:11 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
So cute. So it's a story about moving and Tom Lichtenheld had moved a few years ago and he told me this story about the moving truck driving away and he's watching it drive away with all his stuff and suddenly it stops and the mover gets out of the truck and he moves something out of the street, Then it gets back in the car and leaves. So Tom goes out to see what he moves and he can see it was a little worm and he was like, did that guy just stop to not run over a worm? And right, it just seemed so like who would do that. But the whole you know the idea of this big burly man like caring about a worm.
19:51
So he was telling me the story. He's like, oh, I think there's a book idea here, and so we wrote it together, which was super fun. And then, yeah, so it's just about taking care of it. No one's too nothing's too small to treat right, you know, to treat nicely. And so it's just a book about taking care of the things that you have, and even the things that aren't yours. So it's, it's sweet, it's fun.
20:13 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
That feels like that might be a theme in your writing lately.
20:17 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Taking care of things, no matter that, whether they're big or small, yeah, I think I think themes are so interesting because when you're, you know, sitting down with your story and you're writing it, you're not really thinking about, you're not? You're, you know, you're thinking about the other books you've written. You're kind of, you know, worried about that one. So I do. It's interesting when you kind of look at the books that I've written, I'm kind of like, oh, I really like pets and I really like friendships and I really like the things that I write a lot about without meaning to really not specifically.
20:49 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Well, and that would make me think that those are part of what moves you as a human being, because we write about the things that we're passionate about. So I would guess, if I would say something about Beth Ferry, that you are somebody who's very engaged in your world and that you really care about making a difference.
21:09 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Yeah, that's super nice and yeah, I think I hope you know, I think that you know you do you write for children because you want. I really my biggest goal is that they read one of my books and then want to read another book, not even mine, just want to read because you know, you hear so many times that kids aren't readers and I think, oh God, they're missing out, like, they're missing out, like you just don't want them to miss out Because you know you do age out of certain things and you don't want them to like you do you want to be like, don't read this now, like and then read it again and you'll get a whole different experience when you're older and you know. So I hope that my books make kids want to read other books.
21:49 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
Well, and you're right about. You want them to engage when they're older. I think I was telling you earlier I'm teaching this first year seminar at Shenandoah this semester and we're talking about bringing picture books to life. So these are 18 year olds, 19 year olds and for many of them, you know, it's been a long time since they've held a picture book in their hands, and for some of them, I'm realizing they may never have held truly held a picture book in their hands, and so are they loving it. I put out books like we're talking about windows, mirrors and sliding glass doors, and every class there's like an array of books from the shelves behind me that they're reading and examining, and so I was watching class on Tuesday and just smiling because they're sitting there reading aloud to each other and talking about the books. And, oh my gosh, that looks like me and my, my TA, Riley, looks at me and goes this has to be the most wholesome class on campus.
22:45 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
I thought oh my God, I know it's like. It's like getting to be a kid. It's like it's like getting to be a kid, it's like going to class and getting to be a kid again. And yet also discovering that some of the themes are big, exactly that.
22:58 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
It's so much deeper, even than you first realized when you were exposed to the book in preschool or kindergarten or first grade. And I hope if we give any people anything to think about today, it's go to your library, pick out a picture book you've never seen before and just sit on the floor and read it.
23:15 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Because I think, I do think, I think sometimes, like when I go to the bookstore with Tom Lichtenheld, we'll sometimes read the same book and we always he is looking at the pictures first because he's an illustrator and I am so looking at the pictures first because he's an illustrator and I am so looking at the pictures second. So it's like cause, you know, I always, I always read you have to read them more than once, in my opinion and so when I'm reading it, I'm really reading it for the story first, because that's how I start, and then I look at the pictures. I mean, you're kind of doing it together but focusing on that, and I find it really interesting because you know, most of the time obviously they go together, but you know it is. It is like it's you're getting two treats in one.
23:57 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
You're really getting a story like that's told through the words, and then you're getting the story that's told through the pictures, which is so fun, and I often encourage kids to try to read something three times, you know, read it once for the words, once for the pictures and then once to see how they work together, because sometimes the pictures extend and enhance in ways that the author may not have intended, and so it's fun to see how that works together to create a full story.
24:24 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
It's so true because I do love. I love the books where the words, the pictures are telling the opposite of the words. Yes, and that to me, you know, when I'm writing I'm always like I know that it's going to be illustrated, but still I feel like I have to tell a story that can be read, you know, like standalone, be like a full story alone, and but one of my goals is to write, is to write a story where the pictures tell a totally different story, because those books are brilliant and I enjoy reading and they're so much fun.
24:54 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnooor (Host)
So much fun. Well, beth, thank you so much for joining us on the Adventures in Learning podcast. Happy book birthday to you for reading and Pradella, and we can't wait to see moving the movie story.
25:07 - Beth Ferry (Guest)
Thank you.
