Episode 018 - Talking Transcontinental Race No12. With Co-Host Millie Gibbons, Esther Lloyd & Conor McKenzie.

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Hello, and welcome to episode eighteen of dot COM's You'reudio,
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home of ultra distance cycling coverage in partnership with dot Watcher.
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I'm your host, Samuel Thompson, and on today's round table,
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we're going to talk through the major themes emerging from
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the twelfth edition of the trans Content to Race. But
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first we all stick to talking about what's been going
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on and what's going on at the moment in the
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ultra distant scene. And to do so, I'm joined by
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dot Watchers Milli Gibbons, Hila Millie. Hi.
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Love.
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Since you've last been on, you've been busy on the
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racing front. You've taken part in both Cronje at the
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end of May and Trans Pyrenees the Transiberica version in June,
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and you haven't just taken part, but you finished the
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first female in both of them. So how how did
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you enjoy these rides? Yeah?
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They were good.
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I like climbing, so obviously the Transprenees was very fun,
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just climb after climb after climb. Well, yet to see
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the Tormalae in its glory. I know two other races.
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I've been up there in the middle of the night
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and then this race, it was so cloudy.
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It was probably the worst view.
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I've had to see you three of three times at
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the tormal Ay and yet to see any.
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Of the views instantly. I've had the exactly the same experience,
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And the first two times I did it. First time
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is at night, the second time it was clear at
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the bottom and cloudy at the top, but then third
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time I had a clear day. So you're just going
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to have to find another race where you take that in.
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Then yeah, I will just go on a holiday just
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to see it.
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But I feel like it's now almost so special that
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I've not seen it, but I kind of want to
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keep it that way.
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Yeah, maybe underwhelming when you actually see it, then yeah, exactly.
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And you seem to have done every race there is
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in the Pyrenees. I know it's on your doorstep as
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well as a particular area that you really enjoy riding in.
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Then yeah, I.
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Love the Pyrenees, So for me, it's just that magical untouched.
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The Alps is cool, but the Pyrenees is just super
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super nice.
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M Yeah. I find they're very different mountain ranges. And
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you've done both versions of the Transparentees. Now, how how
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did he find they've compared. Obviously, Lost On one goes
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across and back again and Transparentese trans Iberica version is
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just one way, and.
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The Transparker one is a fixed route, whereas three. Yeah,
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very different experiences, different races. I think there were a
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lot more riders in the one this year. I think
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you had three hundred on the start line. Certain meant
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that you were around and being a fixed route race spent,
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there were riders the whole way, whereas I think on
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the Lost one there's less riders and it's a free route,
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so you'd see less people. So that would be the
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biggest difference I noticed.
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And it seems quite relentless that route. You just it's
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just cal off and col off and cold all the
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way across.
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Well me, that's one.
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Yeah, in some ways it's easy. Just got the next
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objective is just to get up the next next path
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and there's not much transition. Well, well done again, great,
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great riding, and yeah, hopefully at some point in future
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see that see that Tomalane or its story. Yeah, well
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we've got a few races to go over which aren't
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the trans Continental Race, which had taking place over the
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past month. First to mention is the Pan Celtic Race,
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which was back after taking a break on the twelfth
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of July this year. There's there was three distances ranging
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from one thousand kilometers to two thousand and two kilometers
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and big starting field of two d and fifty five
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across all the distances. The route, the way, the way
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that the route was formed really shaped the outcome of
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this because there was a ferry from Whale was going
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across to Ireland. The riders then did a loop of
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various distances around Ireland and then took the ferry back.
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I think it was about a ndre kilometers back from
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the ferry to the finished in the north of Wales,
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and it was quite a decisive moment. Our ferries again
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seemed to be It seemed to be a recurring theme
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in the races this summer, so this return ferry was
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the size of moment in the outcome of the long
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route where the first two riders, David Scott and Chris Dickmans,
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both took the same ferry coming back from Ireland to Wales,
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so a bit of a one hundred k sprint finished
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there and it was only on the last clime that
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David got away from Chris finishing seventeen minutes ahead. So
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as finishes going up to distance races, that was a
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really tight one.
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I think it was similar to the third place as well.
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I think there was a good few of them on
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the same ferry and they had it again a sprint finish,
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so for the whole podium it was sprinting dealing with
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the ferry situation.
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So yeah, excitedly.
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I think they weren't that frequent going across. I think
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Chris had arrived at the at Dublin quite a bit
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ahead of David, so yeah, it really really shapes the
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outcome of these races when the ferries of that infrequent
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and first first woman was Leo Wilcox in ninth so
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it was interesting to see how she pivoted from her
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world record around the world attempt to come back fairly
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soon after to take on this one.
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Yeah, for sure, I think.
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She obviously she ended her around the world record due
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to higher temperatures and just general ability to be able.
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To compete it.
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So I guess I think she was in Europe and
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wanting to do erase and there was talk of whether
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or not she would do the TCR, and I think
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the route planning, I think is one of those things TCR.
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You think, oh, yeah, that would be good, like she's
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been enough and everything, it's probably keen to do it,
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and then the reality of you need a lot of
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time planning in a couple of weeks just to turn
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around a route and be prepared for TC, I think
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maybe is a bit too much of a fee, even
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for the likes of Lale. So I think that's why
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she chose to do the Pan Celtic on a story
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that looked like the whole of Ireland was her fan club.
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But every every day there was people with signs and
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supporters for everyone, so I hope they were out there
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for the other writers as well, and not just for Lale.
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Yeah, it's it wasn't that much of a turnaround in between.
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There must have been it must be less than a
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month between her finishing that around the World attempt and
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doing this one, So I can understand how something like
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the Transcontinental Race people are spending their whole year preparing
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their routes and planning for that. So yeah, it seemed
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more a more feasible thing to do in that sort
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of time. Skilled Then the next event was Michigami, which
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I was. I was intrigued about this one because there's
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not many road based ultra distance events in the US.
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The main ones that we talk about, and there's another
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one going at the moment the Colorado. The trail Rows
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are off road, and when you talk about bike pecking
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in the US, I think people's natural reaction is off road,
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mountain bike especially, but it's we've we did talk in
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the episode before last about the trans Am Bike RACEE
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and how that has developed.
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Well.
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It was one of the one of the headline events
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in this sport, but has has lost that bit over
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over previous years. So with their not being as many
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events of that nature, was interesting to see this one,
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which Michigan Army is a one tho one hundred mile
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or eighteen hundred kilometer circumnavigation of Lake Michigan, starting and
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finishing in Chicago. Is also also mini Mini Gami version
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which is seven hundred and seventy five kilometers and it's
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been around four I think it's its third fourth year.
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This year it's grown, it's grown in size since the organizer,
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Zoom put a cap on of one hundred riders this
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year and they filled that up. So yes, it's an
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interesting one in that respect. The first finisher was Dylan
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Pierce in three days, seven hours, followed by US in
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Denton five hours later, and first female finisher was Katie
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Schmitzer in eight days and eleven hours. And Katie's ride
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in particular was affected by basically some of the wildfires
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going on in Canada at the time were blowing smoke
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down into this region and causing issues with air quality.
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So the organizer had recommending that riders take this, take
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this into account, take breaks when necessary. So Katie's ride
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was affected by that, and it's something we're seeing quite
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a lot of races over this summer. Well, it's it's
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a worldwide issue, the amount of wildfires going on. I
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saw one from my window the other day as well.
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So yeah, Millie, you mentioned there's a couple of events
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that have been affected by this as well.
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Yeah, there were fires before the Pan Celtic in Wales,
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and there's been fires in Colorado that was talked whether
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that was even going to go ahead.
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So it's definitely.
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A slight worry for the world and Ultu racing in
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the future. I think there's recently been a substack about
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the effects of all these crises going.
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On and how that might affect.
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I mean, we talked a lot about the conditions in
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terms of heat going on, especially this year, how it's
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affected events, and this is another another consequences of that.
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It seems one more event is the Capitals, which started
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on the nineteenth of July. And I'm interested to get
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your take on the route, Millie, because it's it's in
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your back garden in Catalonia in terms of what it
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it's what you know about it in terms of that
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the roots, the surface, is what that sort of terrain
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is like, because I've seen there's a bit of everything,
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even some hiker bike in there as well.
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Yeah, I think the hiker bike section is pretty small.
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I think it's generally a really nice gravel taking in
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the best of Castolonia and going to the Capitals. I
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know that there's a section that is hot even in
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a normal summer, so given we've had over forty degrees
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in Jerona, I'm imagining that would have been crazy, crazy
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hot around YadA. But yeah, the section that goes in
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the Pyrenees, again, super nice gravel, climbs and the sense,
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so very nice route, I would say, And yeah, Chris
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Melmon one that got back to Barcelona first.
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Yes, so eight hundred and fifty k fourteen thousand meters
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of climbing. As you mentioned Chris who was on the
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podcast recently, thirty nine hours and one minutes and it
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was only ten minutes later to fellow American Dexter Copas
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in second, and there is a very big gap to
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third place ten hours back there. So Rod and Chris. Nice.
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Nice result. Now, our dots to watch are primarily races
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that are ongoing, so we'll come back in the next
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episode of On the Dot, which we do to have
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out next week to recap the final results of these
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and look ahead to some of the races that are
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coming up later in a month, such as Silk Road,
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Mountain Race and bad Lands notably, but just touch on
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some of these that are ongoing at the moment. The
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Colorado tra Race is one that one that stands out
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is the second of the US Triple Crown events, and
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this one's generally considered the most technical of the three.
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It's well this year. It's five hundred and eight miles
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with more than three inchind miles of that being single track,
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a lot at high altitude of over three thousand meters
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going up to four thousand meters as well, and each
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year the route flips from either starting in Denver and
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going to Durango, as it does this year, and in
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alternate years it goes the other way and coming back
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to wildfire issues. This is one of the reasons for
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the route being slightly modified this year. Well, it's been
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more slightly modified because it's been so much that the
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race organizers considered that the times this year are going
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to go towards new FKTs, that it's not going to
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be compared with previous best times. It's ongoing. At the moment,
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the leader looks like this, just have one hundred miles
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to go. Someone that you know, well, Millie, it's Alex
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McCormack's out in front. Have you got any inside info
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of how his face is going or what his what
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his outlook, what's going into this one?
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Top much?
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I don't think as much service and I feel like
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I always think no news is good news.
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I think he's just having a good time every time
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he's spoken to him.
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He did go out early to acclimatize to the altitude
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and see what the trailers are like. But I think
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he likes technical terrain. So no wonder he's out in
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the in the lead.
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I guess, m hmmm, because he was a what before
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getting into the ultra distance stuff he was he did
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have a mountain bike background.
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He was a UK champion of one disciplines.
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Yeah, twelve the twelve hour mountain bike.
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Okay, okay, I guess.
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In the mountain bike mountains bike character.
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Yeah, I suppose looking.
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At the track and now, well, I think he's close
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to such has been ahead of the record time. So
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although he's got a big lead, he'll be excited. He's
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sort of now going against the record, so he's still racing.
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Well, I was just looking at the tracker. There was
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it seemed like around twenty miles, because of course in
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the US they have they do just play distances in miles.
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But I suppose on that sort of terrain like that
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sort of distance can mean quite a few hours. We're
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not talking about an hour to cover fifteen twenty miles.
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Yeah, I think there's I don't know, a good few
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hour a hiker bike as well, So yeah, exactly if
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it is that a section, he could be hours ahead.
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And that's Xavier Cheriboga in second nicknamed the Farmer who
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he was fIF at Tour Divide in the end, and
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I'd always recommend having a look at Connor's route preview
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and rider preview that's on the on the substack as
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well and gives them give some good detail to what's
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what that root's like and some of the riders to
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watch them. The other events that are ongoing, which we
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will come back to to give more full reviews in
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on the next week are the Via Race, Chapter three,
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Mother North and Utrecht Ultra Excel, which they are they
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haven't finished yet. We've got some of the winners, but
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we'll give a full recap next time. The twelfth edition
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of the Transcontinental Race saw novel change in direction, races
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heading from north to south for the first time, from
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Trondheim in Norway to Kalamata and Greece via checkpoints in Norway, Slovakia,
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Bosnia and Herzegovina and Albania. At this point, I'd like
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to acknowledge that the race is not either why we
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record this with a couple of days remaining for the
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racers to reach Kalamata before the GC deadline. We do, however,
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have the first finishers for each of the categories including
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the overall pairs, the green leader board and new for
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TCRE number twelve, the flinter category overall winner in dominant
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fashion and backing up his victory two years ago at
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TCI number ten, was Robin Gemperley. He made his decisive move,
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reaching the ferry crossing of the Baltic Sea more than
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eight hours ahead of the next races, a margin he
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broadly held until the end. His finishing time was ten days,
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eight hours and fifty five minutes. Nicholas Chatelet came in second,
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just over seven hours behind Robin, heading the green lead
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board in the process. Third place was Dross Slundroth in
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ten days, twenty hours and forty five minutes. The first
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ever flinter Gathgree winner and finishing nineteenth overall was Sarah
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Boslet in a time of twelve days, eleven hours and
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one minute. The story behind Sarah's win is quite a
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poignant one which will no doubt come on to Camille.
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Albissa kept her on her toes throughout, with the two
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separated by mere kilometers for much of the stretch across
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Central Europe. Camille ultimately finished fourth, four and a half
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hours behind Sarah. Larissa Anderson was the third flinter finisher
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in a time of twelve days, nineteen hours, ane fifteen minutes.
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The pairs champs in a time of fourteen days, three
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hours and forty seven minutes were Marguerite Mulhouse and Remy Meijan.
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But those are just the headline results and they speak
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little to how the race unfolded. So to give detail
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to the dots and talk through the key themes, we
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have a couple of individuals who have been glued to
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the action over the past couple of weeks, joining Million
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I today. Firstly, I'm pleased to welcome the Nether half
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of the dot Watch comment U team for this year's TCR.
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It's Esther Lloyd. Not only talented behind the keyboard, bringing
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us informative pun film commentary, Esther is a trans Continent
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to Race veteran, having completed last year's edition and has
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also finished Lost Dots Transpyreentees Race in twenty twenty four. Esther,
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on your dot watch profile, it states that you enjoy
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events that serve baked beans and the solid bus stop
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so produced. I presume your fan of aord.
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Axes there what gave it away?
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Yes, I am well, thanks again for joining us esther,
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look forward to getting some more of your insights. And
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also it is Connor McKenzie, the editor of dot Watcher's substack.
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This year he's added depth to dot watcher coverage of
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big events, including TCR with detailed previews and analysis via
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the daily briefings and bringing us the stories behind the dots.
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So thanks for joining us, Connor. I presume you've come
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to Armed Winds with some insightful stats to share of us. Yeah,
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there's some of that for sure. It's good to be
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back again. So the way this is going to work
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is we're each going to take it in terms to
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present a topic, a theme or highlight from this year's
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race and explain why it's caught our eye. Rest of
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us can then jump in with our own hot takes
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and let's see where this conversation takes us. So first
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to introduce their highlight Milli Europe.
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My topic is inspired by Yanna's choice to change from
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riding in the solio category to the pairs category and
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lost at align them to continue to be in the race,
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but as out of GC. One side point on that
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is that was then two pairs racing out of GC.
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So are we going to see a rise in the
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competition of out of GC competition, which is quite a
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rogue thing to consider, but obviously it often happens the
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other way around that you go from being in the
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pairs category to being solo if your pair for whatever
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reason can't finish and someone finishes. So, yeah, what are
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our thoughts on changing categories and how should race organizers?
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But yeah, I deal with them. Really, what do we think?
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I think, like you said, it's a bit of a
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unique one because we've seen what you see quite a
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lot when people start off in pairs and one of
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the pair has to drop out for whatever reason. It's
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a bit more straightforward. They're that decision of they they
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are classed as outside the general classification because they've benefited
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from being the pair from the start and drafting that offers.
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But equally, there's a reason why we don't see pairs
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winning these races outright, because it's often the disadvantage of
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being in a pair outweighs being solo. I think ultimately,
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if you're starting in one category, I think you should
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finish in that category. Because it's so many it's so
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difficult to weigh up what the pros and cons are
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each of them.
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Yeah, I think ultimately it's a bit of a shame
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because it would be nice for them to stay in
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the race. And as you kind of mentioned some about
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the bopping the other way as well, if someone if
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you're racing hard and then you kind of want to
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do the single one, it's a shame just because one
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of part of the pair drops out that that means
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you can't continue your race. But it does make practical
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sense because if you're a pair racing looking around the
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other pairs around you, keeping them in check, and then
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just one random pair peers up the road that you
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weren't expecting, that kind of throws your whole strategy out
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the window. It happened earlier, not on in this race,
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that probably wouldn't have been an issue, But you've got
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to draw the line somewhere, so that's what they've got
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to do here.
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I think one interesting thing was that, like what you
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were saying, Millie, that there was already an outside of
384
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GC category put in place for Andrew was Andrew and
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this is John, thank you, complete mind blank, Poor John.
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I've messaged it and heaps in the past as well.
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Hopefully he doesn't hurt that personally, but because that was
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already in place, it was actually quite a seamless transition
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as well, and it meant that at least of the
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dot watchers, I think it was still very engaging and
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just kept it on track. I think without that it
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would have been a little bit more nuanced and potentially
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maybe a little bit more what are you doing kind
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of vibes.
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But I think it's important also to recognize that they
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are recognized as finishers. It's not as if they are
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having to leave the race and they just get totally ignored,
398
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because I think there had been under misunderstanding in the past.
399
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:05.359
I can think of specific occasions where someone has been
400
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:08.160
told they're outside the GC but interpreted that as they
401
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:10.599
are not part of the race anymore, which is certainly
402
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.079
not the case. And I think are quite keen to
403
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recognize people who get from the start to the finish.
404
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:19.400
It's just then are you part of the general classification
405
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:20.200
picture or not.
406
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:23.359
I think there's a nice softer angle to all of
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this as well, which is that I'm really glad that
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00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:27.200
they continued, and I know it was a bit touch
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and go at one point because Christian had some new
410
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:36.240
issues and it was very possible that despite all of
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00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:38.759
the changes, in all the hussle, that it might just
412
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.160
get cut short early anyway, and you obviously got on
413
00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:44.200
top of that. But I think it's a nice story
414
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that you know, two very serious races decided that actually,
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00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.680
this one time, that the thing that kind of brings
416
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:54.279
I guess everyone mostly to alter in the first place,
417
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is just the love of adventure and they want to
418
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:58.759
share that together. I think that's just, I don't know,
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a very cute out of the story.
420
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I think it also goes to highlight that different experience
421
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:06.960
which they which they must have got from it. And
422
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.799
it must have been interesting that that transition of going
423
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from that mindset of aiming to aim to race, aiming
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to do it solo, but then making that decision to
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change along the way. And it was hardly as if
426
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:29.000
they were taking it easy along the way as well
427
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:32.319
they would have been if they started as a pair,
428
00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:34.920
they would have been a first pair by quite a distance.
429
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:40.160
So yes, it was sort of this, they weren't. They
430
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:42.680
were still they're still putting a lot of a lot
431
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of distance each day, but still putting a lot of
432
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.759
a lot of time on the bike. But it wasn't
433
00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:49.400
what they'd originally set out to do.
434
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:52.319
I do wonder if they're going to enter another race
435
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:54.759
as a pair in the future, and I kind of
436
00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:56.519
hope that they do, because I think it'd be really
437
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:01.079
interesting to see what happens. Or maybe they didn't enjoy it.
438
00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:04.279
Yeah, pairs racing wasn't already a bit hard.
439
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:07.160
Imagine just suddenly deciding that that's what you're going to
440
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.359
do with like no prior thought or planning.
441
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:11.039
So bad nte?
442
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:17.240
Well, I've always thought there's a space in this, in
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this cultra distance world for a race which is pairs only,
444
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:24.519
because often the pairs are an after thought, and I
445
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:27.759
think I'm guilty of it myself, even with the results
446
00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:31.960
that we read out in in dot coms, that sometimes
447
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:36.519
I failed to mention the pairs. So how about just
448
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:38.720
having having a pairs race out there? And I think
449
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:40.200
there's a lot, a lot that can be done with
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00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:43.079
st You're like the puns around this, something we could
451
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:45.279
have like the imagery of pairs riding.
452
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.960
Bikes as in the Fruit Pairs.
453
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:59.119
Yeah, pairs pairs to pairs race. Everyone's laughing, by the way, Well,
454
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:05.599
on the series, it's the pairs category it does sometimes
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go into the radar. And I was also interested to
456
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:10.880
note on this edition of TCR that first three pairs
457
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well mixed pairs as well, and there wasn't there hasn't
458
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:20.039
been this discrimination between may or flinter pairs or mixed pairs.
459
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I guess that comes from there's not that many riders
460
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right otherwise were having so many categories. But I guess,
461
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:29.680
like you said, if there wasn't only pairs race, we
462
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could then have all of those categories like mixed pair,
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flint pet, male pair.
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So our next topic, Connor, you're going to introduce.
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00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:44.000
Us, Yeah, I guess I want to talk about Robin's
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pacing and how obviously he's died very strong. He started
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00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:51.319
stronger than anyone else, and I think that's where you
468
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.400
put most of the time really into the field, and
469
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later on it was more about kind of holding that
470
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gap rather than it was tried to build it or
471
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.680
anything else. I kind of think this flies a bit
472
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in the face of maybe some of the like conventional
473
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wisdom or at least more like historic kind of wisdom
474
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around how you would pace an event like this. A
475
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:14.160
lot of people would either kind of like pace it
476
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:17.400
quite consistently throughout or maybe hold something back at the
477
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.079
end and kind of just go. If I've got anything
478
00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:21.440
left in the tank, I'll use it then, but I'm
479
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.720
going to be really conservative and try and get there fast.
480
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Robin has been quite vocal about how he speaks on
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this one. I listened to a podcast I think last
482
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year where he was very open about what his strategy is,
483
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.200
which is that it's to go tempo days one and
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two and build a gap and then effectively try and
485
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hang on for as long as possible. Yeah, I think
486
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:49.920
part of the reason of him doing that is because
487
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:53.119
as you get through a race, it just gets harder
488
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:56.480
and harder. Your sleep debt gets bigger and bigger, you
489
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:59.359
get a calorie deficit, it's just impossible to keep eating.
490
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.400
It's impossible to find the kind of foods that you
491
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.480
would start with as well, like gels and things like that.
492
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:07.880
And the legs are ultimately going to be in a
493
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:10.920
bad state later on in the race anyway, so make
494
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:13.880
the best of them while you've got them, basically, And
495
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:15.960
then once he's built that gap, he tries to hold
496
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:19.480
on by looking at the tracker to see how much
497
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:21.599
he needs to kind of race it. I think there's
498
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:23.720
some good parallels with other kind of top races here
499
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:26.039
as well, but maybe I'll come on to that in
500
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:26.279
a bit.
501
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:31.480
I consider someone when I ask questions about how to
502
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:35.720
pace events, I think we've got to really dawge distinction
503
00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:39.920
between what are the physiological and other requirements of a
504
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:45.799
nultra distance event of this nature too. I think when
505
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:48.319
you talk about pacing positive pacing negative pacing, a lot
506
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:51.480
of people like compare it to when you're running a marathon, say,
507
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:55.480
where that is an effort that you can be relatively
508
00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:58.279
consistent throughout, and they often the best way to run
509
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:02.359
those is to negative paces, so you're getting fast as
510
00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:04.680
you go along. But it's just the sheer level fatigue
511
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:06.920
that we're talking about in these races that you can't
512
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:09.880
expect to be anywhere near you are near where you
513
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.759
are fresh when you get into ten days into this.
514
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:17.400
So yeah, I do believe as well that by playing
515
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:21.119
into that on day ones and day one and day two,
516
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.440
that is when you are fresh and you're able to
517
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:28.000
perform better physically. I think there's going to be a
518
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:30.480
personal moment of where that balance lies with people. You
519
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:34.640
push that too far, are you getting to so digging
520
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.039
yourself such a hole that is difficult to get out of.
521
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:40.519
So I think understanding yourself, understand what you are capable
522
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:43.759
of over those first couple of days, and then hanging
523
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:44.720
on afterwards.
524
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.079
One thing that I picked up on, well, one thing
525
00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:48.799
that I thought was quite clever by pushing it at
526
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:51.720
the beginning, it was cold and it was fresh, like
527
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:54.559
literally you were fresh and it was fresh. The heat
528
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.920
of the Balkans gets to pretty much every rider and
529
00:28:58.039 --> 00:29:01.039
just makes it fatigue ten times worse. So it's actually
530
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:03.039
a really good strategy to try to push as much
531
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:06.519
as possible, I think at the beginning, because it's going
532
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:09.000
to be a lot easier. And then I think I
533
00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:13.000
also saw on the trans Continental Instagram he was saying
534
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:14.920
he was pushing like ninety watts by the end of
535
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:17.319
the last pack orps and Sam, you and I picked
536
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:19.200
up like were like, why is he going so slower?
537
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:23.000
Last I think I think the struggle was really real.
538
00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:27.039
Essa and I were like trying to figure out when
539
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:31.200
he was going to finish, and Esther was like twenty
540
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:35.160
four k hour He's going to finish the like by sunset.
541
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.000
I said, well, twenty four k an hour. That afar
542
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.319
In ended up finishing at four in the morning, so
543
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:43.880
well beyond what either of us had estimated.
544
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:47.039
I was trying to stay away, getting ready to post
545
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.119
the substack as soon as he crossed the line, and
546
00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:52.519
I had alarmed set for every five forty five minutes,
547
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.119
which is insane, but like, basically, I think it got
548
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.920
to like the three am alarm and I just just
549
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:01.920
lept through it covers three hours later. In the end,
550
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:03.359
it was just impossible to predict.
551
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:09.119
I wonder whether there was this psychological aspect in Robin's
552
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:11.960
thinking as well, that by carving out a big gap,
553
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:18.200
whether that demoralizes other people but a caveat was saying, like,
554
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.559
I think I've been quite open on my commentary pieces
555
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:25.359
around this is how I don't think there is a
556
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:28.559
huge strategic kendiment in terms of what other people are
557
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:31.799
doing and whether well in terms of that, I mean,
558
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:34.000
if you're basing your own strategy of what someone else
559
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:36.759
is doing, it's probably going to backfire at some point,
560
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:40.000
but people still do it, and he knows that. And
561
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:43.920
if you see that someone is eight ten hours ahead,
562
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.480
is that potentially luring other people into altering their strategy
563
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.279
was just going to backfire or is it just making
564
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:56.160
like resigning them to maybe not pushing right to that edge,
565
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.640
so they are they're more sort of for your second
566
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:02.960
rather than trying to push a little bit more to
567
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:03.480
catch Robin.
568
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:08.359
I think that's a very good point. I think Robin
569
00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:10.920
is particularly good at the hard starts, and I think
570
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.400
if I tried to do that, and I mean I've
571
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:15.160
never tried to do it as a strategic thing. I've
572
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:17.799
more tried to do it as a I was being
573
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:21.759
stupid kind of thing. I always pay for it. It's
574
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:24.200
clearly something that works incredibly well for him and maybe
575
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:26.880
it laws other people out. But just because it works
576
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.400
for him doesn't mean it's going to work for everyone. Yeah,
577
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.839
maybe it comes from his mountain bike background where he
578
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:36.960
was used to harder starts and more like upper limit
579
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:41.880
kind of work, and then he's transitioned that into ulter insurance.
580
00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:45.279
I don't know. But also he never lost the lead,
581
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.920
so it kind of makes sense that you would go
582
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:51.880
out at whatever pace you want to go at and
583
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:55.079
then he has a lead, so there's no need. There
584
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:56.799
was no need for him to carry on pushing at
585
00:31:56.839 --> 00:31:58.559
that pace because he got that ferry that he wanted
586
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:01.599
to get so he can only like chill a bit,
587
00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:03.599
and I guess there was that point where he was
588
00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:05.480
someone was quite close to him and he was a
589
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:10.880
bit panicked. But until then, if you and as you say,
590
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.759
you shouldn't base your strategy on someone else. But if
591
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:15.599
you have a huge gap, there is no need for
592
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:18.920
you to carry on making games and games and games
593
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:22.000
because you can confidently know that you are fastening these people.
594
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.079
So maybe he was actually saving saving sand beams, but
595
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:27.680
then given the ninety wards of the year, maybe he wasn't.
596
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:28.160
I don't know.
597
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.599
And he did talk about this along the way that
598
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:36.799
he just because he didn't have that pressure of someone
599
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:41.119
close behind him, that he well, he said he wasn't
600
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.160
pushing as hard as he could. But I think it
601
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:45.440
was probably quite fine margins there between what we're talking
602
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:49.960
about him like still putting in huge distances each day.
603
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.839
But when Nicholas started to close that gap a bit,
604
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:56.960
it did seem to how much he could actually change
605
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:58.680
in terms of his riding, but he did seem to
606
00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:00.559
be on his toes a bit more or when he
607
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:02.039
was given interviews around that time.
608
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:05.880
Yeah, Nicholas closed the gap by about one hundred and
609
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:09.599
five kilometers basically, and in one day, which was quite considerable.
610
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:12.079
I mean, obviously, like the windows of where that twenty
611
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:14.440
four hours falls and starts firm and where the rest
612
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:16.839
was taken can be taken into account. But it was
613
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:21.279
around Hungary and Bosnia that Robin started to speak about
614
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:23.119
being a bit more worried, and yeah, as kind of
615
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.720
Millie was saying there as well, like or really suggesting
616
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:30.559
that you can kind of once he's got that gap,
617
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:33.440
he can just offend it. It's his to do what
618
00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:36.440
he likes with it. And he was really just focused
619
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:39.279
on trying to maintain that gap rather than kind of
620
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:41.359
play around with it too much. But it just gives
621
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:44.160
him that breathing roomment. You can also look at the
622
00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:46.160
data a bit as well and see that on some
623
00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:48.839
of the days towards the middle, I think it was
624
00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:51.440
day four or five, he had a lot more rest,
625
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:54.920
so rather than it being necessarily positive pacing, it was
626
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:57.599
kind of up and then down and then up again
627
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:00.279
a bit more towards the end, and he kind of
628
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:04.039
took that rest after the first few harder days in
629
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:07.240
order to kind of consolidate and be able to respond
630
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:09.679
if he needed to later I.
631
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:12.880
Suppose well, the way that this this position played out
632
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:16.480
then was a bit different to last year because Victor
633
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:19.679
who who ended up winning, and he took that lead
634
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.880
in the second half, and he seemed to take a
635
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:26.119
more progressive approach to that. I think his strategy of
636
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:30.119
sleeping hard, riding hard paid off as the events went on.
637
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:32.679
So yeah, in that way, a bit of a contrast
638
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:35.639
to Robin. Even though sorry, even though Robin was still
639
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:38.400
taking good rest when he did rest, it was it
640
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:39.599
wasn't quite as consistent.
641
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:42.159
Yeah, I would say both of them are quite ride hard,
642
00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:45.320
rest hard people. Robin definitely seems to be a bit
643
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:48.800
more rest when you need it, rest when you can
644
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:50.880
get it, but rest hard when you do do that,
645
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:55.599
whereas Victor seems a bit more metronomic, maybe where he
646
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:58.039
is very consistent. He will get like in a race
647
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.159
like this, maybe has five or six hours every single night,
648
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:05.880
and at least in how they talk about it, Rick
649
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:09.239
just time trials it. He does it completely within what
650
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:11.440
he knows he can do. He doesn't really look at
651
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:13.360
the track of that much and he gives up the lead.
652
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:15.639
So I mean, looking at at Les earlier this year,
653
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.039
he would be in sixth place some days maybe five
654
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:24.000
fifth or six, and he would just rest, let the
655
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:26.320
lead go, and then he would just blitz past riders,
656
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:29.880
looking incredibly fresh. There the next day, he'd be very
657
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:32.719
confident in it, whereas Robin's approach is obviously a little
658
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:34.360
bit different, where he wants to keep that lead, he
659
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:37.199
keeps an eye on the tracker. He's almost like doing
660
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.679
a breakaway, whereas Victor right raises it way more like
661
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:41.280
a time trial.
662
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.400
Any word, whether we'll see them both line up at
663
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:47.079
events against each other anytime soon.
664
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:49.760
I think we'll see them both at Taurus later this year.
665
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:54.960
Oh as with everyone else in this social world, then
666
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:57.199
well you'll get to seem up closer in.
667
00:35:57.239 --> 00:35:59.480
Connor, I will be nowhere near either of this.
668
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:03.559
You can implement all this strategical knowledge to find the
669
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:12.079
weakness and maybe okay, well moving on to the next one. Esther,
670
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:12.800
it's your turn.
671
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:18.360
So my topic or highlight, I guess it was a
672
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.800
selfish highlight or a selfish topic. So part of the
673
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:26.280
media crew, Sam she posted something about she saw a
674
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:27.920
lot of joy in this race, and I think it
675
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:32.559
really resonated, and I definitely maybe it's just because I'm
676
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:35.199
looking for it as well. But I definitely saw a
677
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:37.679
lot of positivity from the riders. So there's a lot
678
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:39.599
of repeat people, a lot of people that are really
679
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:42.320
grateful to be returning this year, a lot of people
680
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:44.199
that were grateful to be there in the first place,
681
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.559
people that were excited about the route. You know, going
682
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:51.119
from Norway, it's a pretty bucket list route if you
683
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:54.639
think about it all the way down. Also, it looks
684
00:36:55.079 --> 00:37:00.840
damn awesome on a map, just that little line. And
685
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:05.320
I definitely saw a lot more smiling faces. I know
686
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:08.960
the media crews and I know it's very very This
687
00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:11.039
race is one of the hardest races in the world.
688
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:15.679
Like there are so many, so many downs, but I
689
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:18.000
think they really did a good job at capturing a
690
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.320
lot of the highs. There were a lot of smiling
691
00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:23.480
faces along that route, and I thought that was pretty
692
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:27.360
cool because I kind of want to see more people
693
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:30.320
there was. I think there's a lot of joy to
694
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:32.599
be had from these things. I think that's why people
695
00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:35.840
keep on coming back once, like they get asked like
696
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:40.719
all the downsides of things and the type type two
697
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:45.920
fun kind of issues, there is just a pure joy
698
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:48.360
of like riding a bike a really long way with
699
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.800
people and having an adventure and having a lot of
700
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:54.679
fun and a lot of seven day croissants. So that
701
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:58.800
was my topic. And actually I really liked Martin Burrittz
702
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:03.679
as well and following his story because he's I'm not
703
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:06.920
too sure who was doing his Instagram, but it captured
704
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.960
the the highs and the lowers very well, like he
705
00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:14.280
was at the very low that a very highs l
706
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:18.239
day after day and just continued on and he never
707
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.400
stopped smiling the entire way. I loved that it wasn't
708
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:23.960
about winning, it wasn't about second, it was about loving
709
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:24.800
the rest.
710
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:28.719
I do wonder if that with the shift in more
711
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.599
of the front riders sleeping and resting more, I do
712
00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:35.320
think that that trickles down to everyone. And I think
713
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:40.320
we're moving away from people being sleep deprived like zombies
714
00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:43.440
and people actually taking more time because they've rested more
715
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:45.559
to enjoy themselves a bit more. And I think that
716
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:49.159
does come, yeah, from the guys at the front taking
717
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.119
more rest, so then normal people have.
718
00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:53.039
Also don the rest.
719
00:38:56.679 --> 00:38:59.280
I feel like I guess I can talk about my
720
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:01.840
own personal experience with this a little bit more and
721
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.480
that like I feel like last year I put a
722
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:06.639
lot of pressure on myself to try and just get
723
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:08.960
better at this stuff, and I'm not sure to what
724
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:12.559
end I did that, to be honest, And then this
725
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:14.800
year I think I did that a little bit to
726
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:19.199
begin with, and I just kept having a bad situations
727
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:23.400
like crashes or whatever else. Basically my head clearly wasn't
728
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:25.320
in the right place of what I was trying to do.
729
00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:30.159
And Hellenic Mountain Rice came around in May, and I
730
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:32.400
just told myself, even though this is quite a big
731
00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:36.039
race and one I'd been looking forward to all throughout
732
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:40.280
the winter and the spring, I'm just gonna try and
733
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:42.920
enjoy this one. And it didn't mean I had to
734
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:47.199
vastly change my plans, but it did mean that, like
735
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:49.199
kind of as Millie was saying in terms of like
736
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.239
the approach to sleep, if it got to like, I
737
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:56.000
don't know, ten pm and there was a hotel there
738
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:58.639
and it was perfectly timed, rather than trying to push
739
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:01.400
into the night and you know, risk having a less
740
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:04.039
comfortable sleep or like seeing what else was there and
741
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.519
potentially missing something or wounding up with a sleepless night,
742
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:10.239
it was taking that opportunity where I could, and that
743
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.519
just led to a much nicer experience and you know,
744
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:14.840
slowed down just that little bit, even if it's just
745
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:17.280
one kilometer an hour more than you would before, and
746
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:21.199
take in your surroundings and your mindset just like shifts
747
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:24.000
like quite a lot from that. I think the other
748
00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:27.599
side of it as well is that just these events,
749
00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:29.320
I think there's a reason why we do them, and
750
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:32.880
it's not just because we want to push ourselves. I
751
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:35.199
think it's because we like the community around them as well,
752
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:39.280
and I think TCR does quite a good job at
753
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:43.960
kind of enforcing that. And again back to my own experience,
754
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:46.639
I think I really took the time to take that
755
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:49.800
in for Hellenic this year, where you know, I'd met
756
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:54.079
people beforehand and during and after, and yeah, just that
757
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:56.199
whole experience was a good one, even though even in
758
00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:58.519
the end for that one, I wasn't even able to finish,
759
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:01.039
but it wasn't It was a better your experience almost
760
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:02.840
for having taken everything in.
761
00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:08.400
I think it's also important to emphasize that enjoyment isn't
762
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:13.199
exclusive to performance, and I think su Say Martin is
763
00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:15.239
a great example. This came in fifth and seeming to
764
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:17.119
be having a good time the whole way round, and
765
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:20.920
I often say, like you ask someone who's on a
766
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:23.639
race or come near the front, how was their experience,
767
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:26.079
and you very rarely heard them say, oh, I want
768
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:28.039
but I had really crap time the way around. I
769
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:30.079
suppose some of that. You may say that some of
770
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:33.239
that's influence their by their outcome, but I think generally
771
00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:37.199
in most cases it's especially when we talk about something
772
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:39.119
like this where you have to be motivated to sit
773
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:43.519
on your bike and ride for most hours of the day.
774
00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:45.159
If you're not enjoying that, you're not going to be
775
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:47.239
motivated to do it. And I think that's the approach
776
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:50.480
I'd like to take as well. I think if I, yeah,
777
00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:52.280
if I want to ride my bike, I'm going to
778
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:54.199
do it more and that's going to result in me
779
00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:56.000
doing a better performance at the end of the way.
780
00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:58.199
I still think there's some way to go in terms
781
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:00.480
of the language we use around this. It's something I
782
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:03.480
picked up in the commentary, like especially it's words suffering,
783
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:07.800
and I think there's more to it than just this
784
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:11.079
one word. It's really I've looked into this a lot
785
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:14.039
more and if Connor accepts what I've written, there may
786
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:16.519
well be an article on the sub stack around this
787
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:20.239
word in particular, it's just some ingraded in cycling culture,
788
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:23.519
and it's the way people use it. I'm questioning whether
789
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:25.719
it's the right word to use in the first case.
790
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.480
I think a lot of people mistake it with just effort,
791
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:32.159
And yeah, I think what got to accept that these
792
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:34.519
are hard things to do. That's also why we want
793
00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:36.119
to do it. But it's a difference between putting in
794
00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:41.360
effort and finding that difficult and actually suffering. The impression
795
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:43.519
I get when I've talked to people about this is
796
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:46.039
suffering at something. It's something that's imposed on you rather
797
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:50.679
than something you choose to do. So, yeah, there's a
798
00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:53.760
lot more to go into this, which obviously the article
799
00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:57.079
should hopefully hopefully do that. But I think, yeah, we've
800
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.039
got to accept that these aren't easy things to do,
801
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:05.760
but neither should it be we go into them wanting
802
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:09.679
to put ourselves in a whole wanting to just reveling
803
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:13.159
this suffering element. I think we've got to be grateful
804
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:15.679
for the opportunity we have to do these sort of
805
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:19.679
things and came as much enjoyment along the way as possible.
806
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.559
And yeah, I do agree. You have heard a lot
807
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:27.119
of people especially on the Transcontinental podcast this year talking
808
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:29.679
about this, and I think it is a really positive
809
00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:32.079
aspect to pick up and to promote.
810
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:35.280
I think if it was all about suffering, like suffering
811
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:36.719
to me, it would be like ten days on a
812
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:39.960
swift bike during the same hours there would be there
813
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.559
would be suffering. So you're going to do a day
814
00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:46.079
teasier endors.
815
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:50.480
Well maybe not, but it's my current situation. There's a
816
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:52.960
lot of sitting on the indoor bike, but I'm enjoying
817
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:56.480
it still after two and a half weeks of doing nothing.
818
00:43:56.840 --> 00:44:01.039
It's it's enjoyable, that is true.
819
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:05.039
And also, but like suffering is a privilege and these
820
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:08.719
things right, like it is voluntary when we think about it,
821
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:11.039
and it is such a privilege to be able to
822
00:44:11.079 --> 00:44:14.599
do some things like this. And I don't think i've
823
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:18.360
heard at least I haven't seen many, or if any,
824
00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:20.880
or maybe I've just wiped it from my memory, which
825
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:24.840
is very realistic. I haven't seen any erase reports where
826
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:27.079
they are like I was suffering the whole way, well,
827
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.039
like that was an absolute suffer fest. I've never really
828
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:33.599
seen much negativity at the end of a ride to
829
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:37.920
your point, and I think that just says volumes about it,
830
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:41.360
and if there is negativity, maybe people are just keeping
831
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:42.559
it to themselves. I don't know.
832
00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:47.559
I think there's a difference between. I completely accept that
833
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.800
people do these events because they want to see how
834
00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:53.440
far they can push themselves, and I think a nice
835
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:56.800
part of ultra is always that you push your limits,
836
00:44:56.800 --> 00:44:59.320
you find new limits, and everything else feels a lot
837
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:02.159
smaller when you try to do them again. The bigger
838
00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:06.559
races I've done have made every future race seem much
839
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:10.280
more manageable. Yeah, I think there's a place for athletic
840
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:12.480
performance in that as well, where you know, people like
841
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:15.639
Robin are trying to show exactly what is possible, how
842
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:20.480
fast you can actually do this. But I think you
843
00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:22.559
need to have a place for it where it is.
844
00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:27.119
This is ultimately a big, long adventure, and I definitely
845
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:29.960
think in the way that you guys wrote the commentary,
846
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:33.639
and I hope even if mine is often quite stats heavy,
847
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.679
I do try to focus around the beauty of the
848
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:40.639
environment and the beauty of the journey, because I think
849
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:42.559
that's just as valuable as any.
850
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:43.480
Of the suffering.
851
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:47.920
Not the suffering, not suffering the athletic performance.
852
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:51.760
You mentioned, Robin, Then I think he gave a really
853
00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:54.840
good quote before the race saying that he was a
854
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.039
point where, yeah, he wanted to achieve what you're setting
855
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:00.840
out stud but his happiness didn't depend on it. And
856
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:03.239
I think that's that was a really good example of
857
00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:06.559
someone who, yeah, he's focused to try and get a
858
00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:10.559
good outcome, but he can still he's sort of fair finite.
859
00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:12.119
You can still have a good time along the way,
860
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:14.039
and he's not going to be absolutely distraught if it
861
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:16.400
doesn't go to plan. A long way as well.
862
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:19.960
I think Yanna said something similar as well at the beginning,
863
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.199
and she took it to heart and then obviously changed
864
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:26.000
the pairs like what Millie was saying as well, So
865
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:29.960
for her like part of the I'm not gonna you
866
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:31.960
don't have to compromise on your happiness or what you
867
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:33.360
want to do or how you're going to find joy
868
00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:35.880
in this race, and I think that really showed.
869
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.000
I think that quite nicely plays into the fact that
870
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:41.119
there will be highs and lows points in the race
871
00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:44.519
as well, and I think openness about that is something
872
00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:48.159
that's really valuable. Yeah, I was just thinking about how
873
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:51.119
Milli was talking about people being more open about sleep
874
00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:53.960
and not having to compromise sleep and leftore that being
875
00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:58.800
suffering is important. But yeah, accepting that highs and lows
876
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:02.079
don't necessarily have to involve suffering, they make the highs
877
00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:05.880
higher often and I think that helps people kind of
878
00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:08.280
push through some of the stuff as well by accepting
879
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:10.559
that there will be less well.
880
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:12.960
I think this would have been a really nice positive
881
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:15.480
note to end on. But We've got one more of theme,
882
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:17.239
which is mine, and I'm going to have to bring
883
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:20.840
us back down to earth with some good old hard stats.
884
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:25.360
So I suppose there's a positive ankle to this as well.
885
00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:28.239
That I was picking up a lot of comments along
886
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:31.159
the way of people saying how fast this edition of
887
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:34.400
the race was, especially the start, and maybe something that
888
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.639
was driven by where the ferry was how that impacted strategy,
889
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:41.000
especially some of the front riders. So I had looking
890
00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:44.639
to the last few editions of TCR, I was a
891
00:47:44.679 --> 00:47:47.880
bit hamstrung by how the information is presented through follow
892
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:51.360
my challenge and in terms of like for like comparisons.
893
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:56.519
But I started off looking at the that's for the
894
00:47:56.599 --> 00:48:01.880
first first finishers, seeing over the past four years the
895
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:06.000
average overall speed of the winner's been remarkably similar so
896
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:11.880
even though we're looking at different routes with the actual
897
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:13.840
distance has gone up in the past couple of years
898
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:17.000
compared to twenty three and twenty four, maybe there's something
899
00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:19.480
in that that we're seeing a top performers, they are
900
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:22.519
still able to hold that same average overall speed throughout.
901
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:25.280
I think the key thing for me was when I
902
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:29.199
then looked at the top twenty for each of these races,
903
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.960
how much that both the overall standard has gone up
904
00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:37.360
in terms of the average overall speed and average moving speed,
905
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:45.480
and then how much closely bunched these verse ten and
906
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:51.880
first twenty are. So the average overall speed has gone
907
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:55.320
up from twenty twenty three, who was around fifteen and
908
00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:57.679
a half kilometers now were looking at the top twenty
909
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:00.800
on average this year was seventeen zero point three to
910
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:04.599
five clumps now, which even though we're looking at different courses,
911
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.559
two k an hour is quite a big, quite big difference,
912
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:10.639
and that is it's a longer route. It's nearly one
913
00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:14.000
thousand k on average, longer this year it wasn't twenty
914
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:19.599
twenty three, So that's that's one element. And then the
915
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:25.679
difference between the first rider and the tenth rider has
916
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:28.440
shrunk from thirty three and a half hours and twenty
917
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:30.480
twenty three to twenty eight and half hours and twenty
918
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:34.400
twenty sixth and the same has been observed with twentieth
919
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:37.760
place finishing fifty eight hours behind the first in twenty
920
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:41.119
twenty three to fifty one half hours now. So I
921
00:49:41.119 --> 00:49:45.519
think there's a wider point here around how the standards
922
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:49.440
of these races is just going up. It's not as
923
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.159
clear the picture in terms of the winner. It doesn't
924
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:55.480
look like there's astronomical gains being made there because I
925
00:49:55.480 --> 00:49:58.920
think it's possibly because we are seeing those at the
926
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:02.760
real elten they are quite close to what is the
927
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:07.079
absolute limit. I think it's just this general understanding of
928
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:10.159
how to race these things. It's a huge amount of fact.
929
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:12.000
It's maybe we can come across, maybe we can talk
930
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:16.119
about some that are behind this, but it does hold
931
00:50:16.119 --> 00:50:20.159
true that these comments around the overall standard is going
932
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.239
up in these races. So what was a top ten
933
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:27.400
performance even three years ago is now potentially not even
934
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:30.440
the top twenty performance. So yeah, if the rest of
935
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:32.599
you have you observed this as well.
936
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:35.199
I think this kind of comes back to what we
937
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:38.960
were talking about earlier, and partly because of pacing, partly
938
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:44.519
because religious strategies, so again has really said about sleeping.
939
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:49.519
It's a clear one where like it clearly is a
940
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:53.199
performance and answer to sleep. I mean the subsec We've
941
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:59.280
done one on that very topic. And yeah, if if
942
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:01.000
you try and stuff through it, and you try and
943
00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:04.960
do your fifteen minute micron apps, you might protect your
944
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:07.639
brain a little bit, but you're not gonna, you know,
945
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:10.480
really repair your body, and over a distance this long
946
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:12.840
or even just like half as long as this, your
947
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:16.840
body will break down quite considerably. So the speeds are
948
00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:21.000
almost protected by having that extra recovery and letting your
949
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:24.119
body repair and go again much harder the next day
950
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:26.599
than if you want to allow yourself to do that.
951
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:29.920
I think in the past three years, well, there's only
952
00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:32.599
been two people who have won it, right, so we've
953
00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:36.719
had Victor and we've had Robin twice. So they're too
954
00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:42.440
kind of newer generation people who are definitely adopting that
955
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:45.920
approach more so than maybe the past generation.
956
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:50.960
Well, and yeah, just the backup your point. Those numbers
957
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:55.320
I quoted around average overall speed that is factoring in
958
00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:57.119
the time off the bike as well, so we're not
959
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:00.599
just looking at people going faster because they are because
960
00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:03.440
they're taking more time sleeping and riding less. This factor
961
00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:07.239
is in the that whole picture. And yeah, think was
962
00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:10.679
any really interesting one because last year he was the
963
00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:15.360
joint fourth lowest in the top twenty in terms of
964
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:18.519
his moving time. He was only only spent seventy one
965
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:22.440
percent moving but managed to more than make that up
966
00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:24.480
in terms of the average speeds that he was able
967
00:52:24.519 --> 00:52:25.079
to move at.
968
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:29.519
Interesting and I've been thinking about what the marginal gains
969
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:32.039
might be as well, and maybe some of the more
970
00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:35.639
supported riders and the advantage maybe there as well. So
971
00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:39.559
like changes and bikes set up like error gains. I
972
00:52:39.639 --> 00:52:41.840
think we saw that with Robin this year with his
973
00:52:41.960 --> 00:52:48.440
little mum's custom of best I don't know, Yeah, I
974
00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:50.199
don't know if like peddle it and his mother are
975
00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:52.559
going to do a co lab or something. I'm hoping so.
976
00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:56.039
But like the hear the water in the back and
977
00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:57.880
then he basically had all the snacks in the front.
978
00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:00.760
Stuff like that. I mean, we're seeing to our difference
979
00:53:01.159 --> 00:53:05.400
funds at the moment as well about potentially ero themes
980
00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:09.559
in the area that you magnify that over the distances
981
00:53:09.559 --> 00:53:12.599
the are doing even just putting aerosocks on or thinking
982
00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:16.360
about that, what are the differences there? And potentially we've
983
00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:21.800
maybe reached a point where people are taking more of
984
00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:25.239
a I don't know, there's a lot more maybe wind
985
00:53:25.239 --> 00:53:28.639
tunnel testing or a lot more like sponsorship behind it,
986
00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:31.400
and they're actually really going to extremes to think about
987
00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:34.559
what are the tiny things that would all basically compound
988
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:35.639
over this distance.
989
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:39.840
I certainly think that that is where it's edging towards
990
00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:41.960
at the very top end when you look at who's
991
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:46.079
winning and those are in that in that category. But
992
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:48.960
for the rest, I don't think we're talking about marginal gains.
993
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:51.239
I think we're talking about quite easy wins in a
994
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:53.679
lot of cases, and that come back to sleep how
995
00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:57.119
you manage that, Like look at people set ups even
996
00:53:57.280 --> 00:53:59.599
like over the last five years, how much how much
997
00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:02.079
that's as well, and how people thinking about this in
998
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:06.679
terms of training preparation. I just think overall, it's it's
999
00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:10.039
easy to see why because this is a relatively young sport,
1000
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:13.920
especially like looking at self supporters side and understanding that
1001
00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:16.360
it's not just a fitness test, it's everything else that
1002
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:19.320
goes into it. So it'll be interesting to see how
1003
00:54:19.480 --> 00:54:21.920
how much longer this goes on in terms of this
1004
00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:25.159
rapid progression, And I think, like you said, I think
1005
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:27.639
relatively soon we're going to like we're going to be
1006
00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:30.239
pushing it up against like where are where are these
1007
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:32.880
margins at the very fast fast end. I think what
1008
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:36.719
we've seen so far is more, Yes, it's more general
1009
00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:38.159
than just being marginal.
1010
00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:42.519
Yeah, you're right. Actually, like even things that I've taken
1011
00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:45.079
away from this race myself is like, oh, I'm going
1012
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.519
to be practicing my resupply day and day out as
1013
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:49.840
much as I can, even just on my daily shop.
1014
00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:52.119
How quickly can I do that? How many calories going
1015
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:53.079
to put in my basket?
1016
00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:53.440
You know?
1017
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:55.679
You do that over like the course of a year,
1018
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.920
it's going to add up. Or practicing getting at your
1019
00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:02.719
sleeping match and ended up and putting your sleeping bag
1020
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:05.039
on it. You could do that every night for six
1021
00:55:05.079 --> 00:55:07.280
months leading it to a race. You're probably going to
1022
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:09.519
get that down pretty good and that's going to give
1023
00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:13.599
you an advantage over those days. But other things, like
1024
00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:18.559
you're right, actually, things like route planning, I think because
1025
00:55:18.559 --> 00:55:21.360
that's the race before the race, there's a lot more
1026
00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:25.719
data now as well. Potentially some of the countries that
1027
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:28.400
they're going to will have more maps data as well,
1028
00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:29.800
so they'll be about to do a lot more street
1029
00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:34.119
view understand what they're up against. There are a lot
1030
00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:38.000
more roots now planned plotted against the whole of Europe,
1031
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:39.960
so they're be able to look at like heat maps, go
1032
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.599
and follow my challenge, kind of stalk people what they're doing.
1033
00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:46.400
I think that will have a big impact going forward
1034
00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:49.400
as well. Even the fact that I think I saw
1035
00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:54.320
too at least two riders taking the same shortcut under
1036
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:57.039
the bridge where Robin went for a little swim with
1037
00:55:57.159 --> 00:56:00.679
his bike to across the river to avoid a band road.
1038
00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:06.280
If multiple people are finding that from one person this
1039
00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:09.199
was a first tcer and then there's one person at
1040
00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:13.320
one who's very experienced, that means the data's out there somewhere,
1041
00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:16.039
so it could be anyone's game to play.
1042
00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:18.440
Or they just listened to the podcast and saw that
1043
00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:23.920
you did that and copied it during the rows. But no, sorry,
1044
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:26.679
I think your point is a good one, though. I
1045
00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:29.559
think part of that is also just who has the
1046
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:31.880
time and the resources to actually be able to access
1047
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:36.480
those resources in the first place, So planning a route
1048
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:40.000
will take it. I mean Some people probably do a
1049
00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:42.840
point to point on commute and just hope the best
1050
00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:47.719
with that. Other people could spend hundreds of hours really
1051
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:50.599
looking for every minute little detail and thinking about exactly
1052
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:53.159
where they'll stop at any particular moment and watch shops
1053
00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:56.400
are going to be open. I can't remember who told
1054
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:58.199
me this. I actually think it might have been new
1055
00:56:58.239 --> 00:57:01.599
Millie here too told me about someone who created a
1056
00:57:01.599 --> 00:57:05.440
custom spreadsheet with conditional formatting, So yeah, it was you,
1057
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:08.719
so that they would know exactly why shops would be open,
1058
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:10.960
whether it would be borderline, whether it definitely be open,
1059
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:13.119
whether it wouldn't be open, and you fill in your
1060
00:57:13.159 --> 00:57:17.199
time at each particular point. That's an extra level of
1061
00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:22.360
detail and savviness that definitely does save time and improves
1062
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:25.599
your performance. Whether that one's just because you're incredibly nerdy
1063
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:29.239
or because you have the money, I think it's probably more.
1064
00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:31.960
The nerdy category seems like something you do, Samuel.
1065
00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:35.000
I was going to ask it. I was going to
1066
00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:37.280
ask was it medly that had made this way? Could
1067
00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:38.119
also really.
1068
00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:42.360
I've also done that as well. I would go onto
1069
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:46.679
the nerdy category. I basically plotted a GPS against Google.
1070
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:50.480
Metsay's point of point set of interest. You could basically
1071
00:57:50.599 --> 00:57:53.199
leverage out an average speed and then see where you're
1072
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:56.079
going to hit a shop, see the opening hours, and
1073
00:57:56.159 --> 00:57:59.719
then plugged it back in. We're surprisingly very well.
1074
00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:04.599
But I think it's interesting that this conversation has gone
1075
00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:08.599
in that direction because it's something I'm always keen to
1076
00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:12.519
promote that these aren't just fitness tests, and the way
1077
00:58:12.519 --> 00:58:14.880
I sort of see training and preparation for these sort
1078
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:17.480
of things that you can probably split them into two
1079
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:20.119
main spheres. You've got the physical side on one side,
1080
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:26.400
which I mean general basic fitness can be applied in
1081
00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:30.400
all sorts of domains. But it's firstly what is specific
1082
00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:32.400
to what we're looking at here in terms of riding
1083
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:35.239
four thousand kilometers across the continent, and then all the
1084
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:39.280
other skills and actions, which from the conversations I have
1085
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:41.559
with people, I think these sort of things are still
1086
00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:47.000
sometimes underlooked, overlooked that they just see I've got a
1087
00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:50.239
pedal four thousand and seventeen kilometers, and then I'll come
1088
00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:53.039
to the aspects of resupply, how I'm going to sleep,
1089
00:58:53.079 --> 00:58:56.320
how I'm going to navigate when I come to it,
1090
00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:58.320
Whereas I think they should be an integral part of
1091
00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:03.119
the whole process and just how we started going down
1092
00:59:03.159 --> 00:59:04.639
that at that route. So I think it shows how
1093
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:06.679
much to be how much there is to be gained
1094
00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:09.159
from that, and how much people really thinking about it now.
1095
00:59:09.320 --> 00:59:12.519
So yeah, although on the flip side of that, I
1096
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:17.599
think we are also seeing some very naturally gifted athletes,
1097
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:20.320
people who've been training for a long period of time.
1098
00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:27.679
Even Victor PERSONI he's twenty three, I believe his athletic
1099
00:59:27.760 --> 00:59:32.280
age may well be ten to fifteen years beyond that, sorry,
1100
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:35.440
ten fifteen years in terms of that, He's been training
1101
00:59:35.480 --> 00:59:37.320
at a high level for a long period of time,
1102
00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:40.800
so he has this great basic urbic fitness he's able
1103
00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:44.400
to take into this, And I think, yeah, we are
1104
00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:50.000
seeing just as his sport grows, potentially we're having a
1105
00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:53.559
athletes who are like they have that side of the
1106
00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:56.280
things largely ticked off. Is then a case of just
1107
00:59:56.360 --> 00:59:57.719
adding in those other skills to it.
1108
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:01.679
Yeah, for sure, we're seeing more past athletes come into it.
1109
01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:04.719
So Victor is a good example. Max a Good is
1110
01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:06.920
I'm not sure that's active.
1111
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:10.760
Sorry, Yeah, anyway, we've also got Max for Good coming
1112
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:15.679
into it, and we've got yeah, various others. I think
1113
01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:17.599
also there's a side to it as well that there's
1114
01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:24.880
more I guess pros, whether they're like what do they
1115
01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:28.679
call them, privateer pros or whether it's actual like teams
1116
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:30.400
as well kind of coming into it as well, which
1117
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:33.480
gives more space and resources for people to kind of
1118
01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:35.920
be able to make something of it, which I suppose
1119
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:38.239
is a whole other conversation topic in terms of the
1120
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:40.840
sport growing, which is a good thing, and it also
1121
01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:43.760
comes with its quite significant changes potentially too.
1122
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:48.239
I do wonder I've been wondering this what the I'd
1123
01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:51.920
love to know from people or from riders, like what
1124
01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:57.000
the percentage is between like their physical abilities to the rest. So, like,
1125
01:00:57.280 --> 01:00:59.159
is the reason that they won or the reason that
1126
01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:02.920
they completed did they attribute sixty percent of that to
1127
01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:06.840
like how they were physically or was it mostly down
1128
01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:09.079
to the planning and all the other things that came
1129
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:11.480
with it, or even the mental fortitude to be able
1130
01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:13.639
to get to the end. I'd love to know that.
1131
01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:16.719
I've got an answer for you. It's seventy six percent
1132
01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:19.599
physical and twenty four percent mental. So there you go.
1133
01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:24.000
It's more seriously, it's it's something I have seen people
1134
01:01:24.039 --> 01:01:27.079
try and put those numbers on it. And I think
1135
01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:30.679
this is the fascinating thing about this sphere that there
1136
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:32.880
are so many variables that you can't control and you
1137
01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:35.599
can't put numbers on. So yeah, we can, like there
1138
01:01:35.599 --> 01:01:38.000
are elements of training preparation that you can be specific
1139
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:40.719
on that in that side, but even like trying to
1140
01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:44.119
analyze we talked about Robin's performance here, and there's so
1141
01:01:44.199 --> 01:01:48.440
many things that go into it that it may vary
1142
01:01:48.440 --> 01:01:50.800
from person to person as well. So I'm not saying
1143
01:01:50.840 --> 01:01:53.280
it's not the right question to ask, but I think
1144
01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:55.719
it's just so difficult to answer and to put specific
1145
01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:56.199
numbers on it.
1146
01:01:56.199 --> 01:01:59.079
There's also the side of it, which is that so
1147
01:01:59.119 --> 01:02:01.559
I'm just thinking about ferry, whether it's Robin's ferry this
1148
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:04.400
year or it was the Fairy in Italy last year.
1149
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:08.719
You could say that it's a master stroke that they
1150
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:10.719
came up with this idea to get to this ferry
1151
01:02:10.760 --> 01:02:14.079
and they made this time because of that thinking that
1152
01:02:14.199 --> 01:02:17.480
involved was involved in getting a specific ferry, but they
1153
01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:19.800
still had to get that ferry in that particular time
1154
01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:22.239
the racing last year to get to the ferry, and
1155
01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:25.119
where like I think Victor averaged thirty five kilometers now
1156
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:28.639
for like eight hours or something like that, several days
1157
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:33.239
deep into a race. It's almost inseparable the physiological and
1158
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:37.519
the mental side. So I guess involved in the sport.
1159
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:39.079
But I think that's why we all kind of like
1160
01:02:39.159 --> 01:02:41.360
it too, write like you can kind of big brain
1161
01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:45.360
your way through these races, and it's probably why Ultra
1162
01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:48.840
was attracted probably more nuts than the most races. I'm
1163
01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:50.599
looking at you, well, actually all three of you.
1164
01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:55.599
I was just gonna say, I think that percentage of
1165
01:02:55.639 --> 01:02:59.519
what is whether it's physical or what is the vibration stuff.
1166
01:02:59.800 --> 01:03:02.079
The reason why I find ultra so fun is that
1167
01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:06.239
it is really variable between people. I mean, maybe you
1168
01:03:06.239 --> 01:03:10.360
know as being female in the pact, Like my strategy
1169
01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:12.119
is very different from the riders that tend to be
1170
01:03:12.159 --> 01:03:14.320
around me, and that's where what I find fun, Like
1171
01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:18.400
what I optimize for being efficient and taking not long
1172
01:03:18.440 --> 01:03:20.920
in the supermarket, but yet my average speed might not
1173
01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:23.960
be as fast, so then I'm able to like make
1174
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:27.880
that balance that suits my style of riding and my ability,
1175
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:31.360
whereas you could be one of those riders who, like Victor,
1176
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:33.639
rides really hard and sleeps well. So I don't think
1177
01:03:33.719 --> 01:03:36.119
there is like a one size fits all for what
1178
01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:40.360
percentages what, but actually what is the best and optimal
1179
01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:42.639
for each person, which is cool.
1180
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:46.199
And I think that that's why I was fascinated with it,
1181
01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:48.280
because I'd just love to get a whole range of
1182
01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:52.000
perspectives from it and to understand what ibron thinks, especially
1183
01:03:52.039 --> 01:03:54.480
like at the finish line as well, when they're fresh offered,
1184
01:03:55.239 --> 01:03:58.000
or at the beginning as well, when they might have
1185
01:03:58.079 --> 01:04:00.519
put all their effort into their training and that's what
1186
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:03.400
they're banking on, and then at the end they're like
1187
01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:05.440
it was a bad idea or something, and I should
1188
01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:07.119
have done more of my route planning. I don't know.
1189
01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:11.280
Well, this seems like as we've come to such a
1190
01:04:11.599 --> 01:04:14.719
such a definitive conclusion there on what is required to
1191
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:19.360
be successful in ultra distance, sounds like a suitable point
1192
01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:22.559
to finish. Someone said to me the other day that
1193
01:04:22.599 --> 01:04:25.960
my answer to things was always it depends, so that
1194
01:04:26.199 --> 01:04:31.119
that seems like a good conclusion here, but it always
1195
01:04:31.159 --> 01:04:33.599
gives us a lot to talk about. And yeah, I
1196
01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:36.599
think that's something that's really interesting about this, how all
1197
01:04:36.599 --> 01:04:40.840
these sort of topics come up during and after race
1198
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:43.119
like this, And I'm sure we could have all come
1199
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:46.559
up with quite a few additional topics and themes to
1200
01:04:46.599 --> 01:04:49.840
talk about as well. But yeah, that's been really good,
1201
01:04:50.239 --> 01:04:53.760
really good summary from all of you. Thank you very
1202
01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:56.679
much for coming on. So thank you Connor, thank you,
1203
01:04:56.760 --> 01:04:57.880
good Fun, thank you.
1204
01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:02.000
Esther, thank you. Just really quickly, if anyone's listening and
1205
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:05.719
you're still riding to Kalamata, like, continue on. It's going
1206
01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:07.719
to get hot, but it's going to be amazing and
1207
01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:08.239
well done.
1208
01:05:09.320 --> 01:05:11.639
The race isn't over till the last person's inn, of course,
1209
01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:13.320
And thank you too, Milly.
1210
01:05:14.440 --> 01:05:15.639
Thanks.
1211
01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:26.199
I've got a story which basically covers our mishap chapeau,
1212
01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:28.920
and if we were to do a Hack of the Month,
1213
01:05:28.960 --> 01:05:31.039
I think this would this would take the prize as well.
1214
01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:35.159
And I've been doing not sharing some of the commentary
1215
01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:38.760
for the Transcontinental races past couple of weeks and a
1216
01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:44.119
picture cropped up on the Transcontinental's Instagram account with this
1217
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:49.800
wheel where someone had wrapped in your tubes around the tire,
1218
01:05:50.719 --> 01:05:54.239
and I wanted to know the story behind it, and
1219
01:05:54.280 --> 01:06:00.559
thankfully the rider concerned, Kuhn Hezelman's, has emailed me the story.
1220
01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:05.360
So I'll just I'll just explain what happened there, so
1221
01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:08.559
there was a gravel part of park or two B
1222
01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:13.360
at tcr and during this discent, his saddle bag dropped
1223
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:18.199
and blocked his rear wheel, which caused the tire to split.
1224
01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:21.599
He was going around fifty k an hour at the time,
1225
01:06:21.719 --> 01:06:24.480
so he managed to avoid crashing. And this was the
1226
01:06:24.519 --> 01:06:27.920
middle of the night and he was in a bit
1227
01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:30.000
of a rush to make the closing time of control
1228
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.320
point two. So his first its first attempt was to
1229
01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:37.119
change in the tube, but it was bulging out of
1230
01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:42.000
this hole that had been created in his tire. He
1231
01:06:42.039 --> 01:06:44.679
did things about scratching at the time, but of course
1232
01:06:44.920 --> 01:06:47.400
you should never scratch at night, and if there's a
1233
01:06:47.440 --> 01:06:50.880
solution then it's often worth trying things. So he thought
1234
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:54.159
about how he could protect this intury while he was riding.
1235
01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:57.119
One of the ideas was putting grass into the tire
1236
01:06:57.159 --> 01:07:00.800
have seen that being done. But then this idea of
1237
01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:04.159
wrapping the broken inner tube around the hole, which would
1238
01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:06.800
apply pressure on it to keep the inner tube in place.
1239
01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:10.360
The first time he tried this, it didn't leave them
1240
01:07:10.440 --> 01:07:13.880
with enough tire clearance, so this was rubbing against tears
1241
01:07:13.960 --> 01:07:16.880
his frame. So he tried a few ways of changing
1242
01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:19.880
the wrapping pattern and cut out the valve as well,
1243
01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:25.039
reduced this tire pressure to avoid puncturing again. And then
1244
01:07:25.679 --> 01:07:28.760
he managed he managed to make this work. He started
1245
01:07:28.760 --> 01:07:33.000
cycling again and managed to reach CP two just in time.
1246
01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:36.280
So yes, I thought it was a nice story in all,
1247
01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:38.679
sort of combining that a bit of ingenuity, a bit
1248
01:07:38.679 --> 01:07:42.280
of perseverance as well, which I think deserves deserves recognition,
1249
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:44.800
and for this happened in the first place, a bit
1250
01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:47.840
of a mishap. So yeah, so nice one on that.
1251
01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:55.639
Kun Enow for Best of Bikes off because every good
1252
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:59.920
audio podcast needs a visual ed feature. Each month, our
1253
01:08:00.199 --> 01:08:03.840
co host chooses a recent bike and set up from
1254
01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:07.119
the bikes or feature on the dot watch website. So
1255
01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:10.079
what what have you picked out this month? Mini?
1256
01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:16.000
This month I've picked Robin's tco winning a bike. Always
1257
01:08:16.039 --> 01:08:18.319
love a custom full frame bag. I think it looks
1258
01:08:18.319 --> 01:08:23.319
really neat and firstly looks like he's perhaps so light
1259
01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:25.680
for such a long racet to being able to just
1260
01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:29.159
have all you need within your frame. But then I
1261
01:08:29.159 --> 01:08:31.199
don't know whether you've seen the video where as he
1262
01:08:31.279 --> 01:08:33.479
explains what is in the bag and it seems like
1263
01:08:33.640 --> 01:08:36.319
it's a Mary Poppins bag or something, So I don't
1264
01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:37.119
think it has stopped him.
1265
01:08:37.159 --> 01:08:39.199
Actually all the stuff he needed.
1266
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:44.319
Yeah, so it's apparently the custom well a custom appy
1267
01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:48.399
Dura bag which would field his whole frame and a
1268
01:08:48.399 --> 01:08:50.359
lot of the direction I've seen about it was just
1269
01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:52.800
how many cables he was pulling out. It was like
1270
01:08:53.279 --> 01:08:56.560
he pulled out it's a cable, here's some clothes, some
1271
01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:59.840
more cables, some more cables, and noticed all over the place.
1272
01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:02.359
Seemed like he had he did have some little bags
1273
01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:06.039
to arrange all his electronics in one place. But I
1274
01:09:06.039 --> 01:09:07.800
think you must have had this as well. When you're
1275
01:09:07.840 --> 01:09:10.039
going along at some point, it just everything just gets
1276
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:12.079
chucked in the bag, especially when you're close to the end.
1277
01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:14.840
So I imagine that must have happened. Yeah, the amount
1278
01:09:14.840 --> 01:09:18.399
of the amount if he fitted in there, I think
1279
01:09:19.279 --> 01:09:21.800
someone may look at that, look at that bike, because
1280
01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:23.720
there was no there was nothing on the rear of that.
1281
01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:27.520
Everything everythingthing was in the frame on his top two bag.
1282
01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:29.880
But even still he had down jacket in there. He
1283
01:09:29.920 --> 01:09:33.520
had arm ormers, leg armers. So I suppose were all
1284
01:09:33.560 --> 01:09:37.039
taking We've all got some level of risk that we're
1285
01:09:37.039 --> 01:09:41.359
willing to take. And Robin he knows, he knows what
1286
01:09:41.399 --> 01:09:44.119
he's doing. His strategy was to sleep indoors, so he
1287
01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:48.439
didn't didn't take or need sleep equipment in this in
1288
01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:51.359
this case, and I suppose, well, it depends where the
1289
01:09:51.439 --> 01:09:55.720
route is going, because you're you're never that remote in
1290
01:09:55.760 --> 01:09:59.199
this area of what these areas that TCI is going through.
1291
01:09:59.239 --> 01:10:01.560
I think is a different if you're doing one of
1292
01:10:01.600 --> 01:10:05.199
the mountain races, for example, where actual sleep kit is
1293
01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:06.039
mandated on that.
1294
01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:07.800
I mean, you.
1295
01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:10.399
Can't say anything ready because he won and he had
1296
01:10:10.439 --> 01:10:12.800
an absolute great race, so I would say what he
1297
01:10:12.880 --> 01:10:16.039
packed was exactly what he needed. And maybe I'm just
1298
01:10:16.079 --> 01:10:18.960
slightly jealous that people can pack everything in a frame bag.
1299
01:10:19.039 --> 01:10:22.840
Is someone that rides a small bike, I can only
1300
01:10:22.920 --> 01:10:24.800
dream of being able to put everything I need.
1301
01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:25.119
In my frame.
1302
01:10:26.439 --> 01:10:28.359
Yeah, I think that's a good point as well, and
1303
01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:31.239
I think what you said there is important to stress
1304
01:10:31.279 --> 01:10:34.840
that it was what he needed and other people it
1305
01:10:34.880 --> 01:10:38.560
may not be what they needed. And especially as you said,
1306
01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:41.479
if someone doesn't ride a frame that is big enough
1307
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:43.199
to put everything in there, and they need to find
1308
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:46.800
another solution and if their strategy is different. And I
1309
01:10:46.840 --> 01:10:48.760
think the key thing to remember this is Robin did
1310
01:10:48.800 --> 01:10:51.000
it in ten days. There's people out there who are
1311
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:53.319
going to beat out there out there twice as long,
1312
01:10:53.960 --> 01:10:57.279
and that that means you're naturally you're riding in a
1313
01:10:57.279 --> 01:10:59.680
different way. You may need more, you may need different things.
1314
01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:02.720
So I think it's always the interesting to see what
1315
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:05.479
the winner took on these things. Obviously it was a
1316
01:11:05.479 --> 01:11:08.800
great solution for him, but someone else looking at and
1317
01:11:08.840 --> 01:11:10.840
thinking that they have to do it that way, I'm
1318
01:11:10.840 --> 01:11:16.680
always I'm always wanting in caution against her. Well that's
1319
01:11:16.880 --> 01:11:19.479
that's all for this time. If you have any submissions,
1320
01:11:19.520 --> 01:11:21.880
then please get in touch via Instagram which is at
1321
01:11:21.880 --> 01:11:25.560
dot COM's pod or dot COM's pod at gmail dot com.
1322
01:11:25.720 --> 01:11:27.439
If you like what you hear and want to support
1323
01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:30.520
the podcast, We don't ask him much. What's really helpful, though,
1324
01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:33.079
is leaving a rating or review on your podcast platform
1325
01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:36.119
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1326
01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:39.640
We also appreciate all your interactions on Instagram, so please
1327
01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:41.359
let us know your views and our posts over there,
1328
01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:43.840
and each and every one of you as listeners makes
1329
01:11:43.840 --> 01:11:47.640
a difference, so remember to check out the commentares on
1330
01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:50.279
those dot watch website alongside their regular features and the
1331
01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:54.600
subsec articles so thank you very much for joining Middy
1332
01:11:55.920 --> 01:12:02.479
and we'll speak to you all soon. Goodbye two two