Superman Lives (Part 2)

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Hello and welcome to How Did This Not Get Made?
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This is a podcast all about the movies you never saw, the scripts that were never filmed,
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and the ideas that never even made it to the page.
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My name is David Spencer, and my name is Daniel Kawka.
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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And welcome back to Part 2 of Superman Lives.
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Let's not waste any time, let's just get into it.
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And I guess let's talk about John Peters.
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Why is he still a producer?
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John Peters was overlooking that entire thing, and he seemed to be getting more and more unhinged.
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There were reports of him yelling at the team.
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There was one story where he brought in a Nat Geo magazine that had a holographic skull on the cover,
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and he yelled at the team saying, "This is it, this is what I want!"
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And like, it slammed the magazine down and demanded this, and he made these ridiculous observations,
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and like we're criticizing a bunch of the works there.
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I think in one of the interviews from the documentary with the artist Tim Burton would actually have
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something in mind and would tell the artist to be like, "Hey, I need you to work on this type of alien.
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Can you put that together? I think this will be great for the film."
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And then John Peters would come in and look at him, be like,
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"Don't work on that anymore. We're not doing that."
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And he's like, "But I was by the director, he's the one that told me, like, who am I supposed to listen to?"
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Yeah.
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He would also bring in groups of women and children to look at the art, kind of like a focus group.
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There was even an instance where I believe he was learning like,
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"Gah, like John Peters was learning."
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Some sort of martial arts and he actually tried to show off to one of the mothers, like his new skill
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and actually put Rick Henrichs, like the head of the production design. He put them in a headlock
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to just show off his new skills.
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When you say he just brought in women and children to look at it, there's a part of me that wonders if
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that was an actual focus group testing thing in the way that movies would usually do it,
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or was he just going to the mall and saying, "Hey, you want to see some cool super-ran things and tell
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me what you think?"
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I want to imagine just because he is a Warner Bros. executive.
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He probably put it out to a bunch of other producers and said, "Hey, if you have any kids
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and have them come to the studio and look at some really cool things, I think that's how it
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may have came down and just became like this exclusive thing."
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But I like to imagine he's just finding random people on the street.
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That would be really funny.
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Pulling people off of the WB tour and just be like, "Hey, hey, look at this."
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His idea was that by having children look at it, children oftentimes don't have a filter when it
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comes to criticizing things. And if children like it, then that means it'll sell as a toy.
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So that's his understanding there.
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All about the toys. That's why we got a bajillion different Ironman suits and Ironman 3.
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Got to sell those toys.
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Yes.
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I mean, I understand what he's doing, but I can see how this is like really disruptive for
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these production designers to be like, "I don't even know what this is."
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Now I'm getting put into a headlock and John Peters is getting out of control.
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Even Tim Burton was getting fed up with him.
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There was a meeting where Peters ended up kissing Tim Burton on the lips.
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Okay.
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I don't know what the context is.
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Maybe he was trying to give him the mob kiss of death or something.
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I don't know.
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I don't understand.
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Sounds like it was a really healthy work environment.
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It's great.
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So, Strix script, it kept on getting pushed back because of Peter's ridiculous demands
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in constant in the moment changes.
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So, while the art department was coming up with anything based on the few details they were given,
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so they were trying to come up with as much stuff as possible,
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but they came up with sketches for Superman himself, the S-Logo,
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Brainiac's ship, Krypton's, Kryptonians, the Forchus of Solitude, Metropolis, Brainiac,
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which kind of looked like he was like a Merlin hat with a fish bowl on top of it.
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It's a weird concept.
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Keep in mind that they also had no direction as to where they were going.
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Yeah.
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So, they had multiple versions of all of these things hoping that
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Peter's would finally be happy with something so that they could move on instead of
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being in this development hell the whole time.
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Yeah.
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Because keep in mind, they were in there for months.
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It wasn't like, oh, this is just a week-long project.
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Let's see what you can do.
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They were just months and months and months and they were probably wondering like,
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what is happening.
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I don't know.
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So, meanwhile Burton was scouting for locations for Metropolis and he eventually settled
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on Pittsburgh, which for him seemed very fitting because he's the man of steel taking place
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in the steel city, which has been used in Christopher Nolan's Batman movies a few times.
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So, the setting had to be important and contrasted much of what Tim Burton had done previously
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with Batman who fought mostly in the night.
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Now, we actually have a hero that's fighting during the daytime.
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Along with that having to deal with Peter's demands, they had to find ways to keep the budget low.
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And every draft that was submitted, they were estimating that the cost of the production would
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go anywhere from like $140 to $190 million.
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I think the target costs for this, they were trying to get it down to like $100 million.
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So, I know we talked a lot about the design, or at least the designers, but we do have to talk
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about his costume.
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I don't know about this costume thing, Clark.
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It'll work.
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It has to.
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The famous Superman suit.
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There's a famous polaroid of Nicholas Cage in a Superman costume.
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There's so many pictures of it and those, yes, are real.
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That costume, at least the costume design was led by Colleen Atwood, who had previously worked
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on Edward Cissarhands, Martha Tax, and Ed Wood.
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So, she's worked a lot with Tim Burton.
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She has also gone on nowadays.
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I believe she worked on the Fantastic Beasts series too, so she's doing some Harry Potter stuff now.
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But yeah, she's a fantastic costume designer.
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The picture that you see of Nicholas Cage in that like bright blue suit,
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that was one of many different suits that were tested out.
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And then on top of that, there were hundreds of different types of materials and colors that were
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being tested out because since they're shooting in the day, they have to make sure that it looks good
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in daylight. They have to make sure it looks good in action and they have to make sure it looks good
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on film. And that's a whole lot of stuff to try and balance there.
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Yeah.
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Another problem was the red underwear on the outside.
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What was wrong with the original costume was the war is underpants on the air.
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I know.
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But maybe it's not a darker blow.
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Maybe it's more of a wearing red.
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Something that has been well made fun of a lot, but there were talks of getting rid of it.
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There was another ridiculous suggestion that instead of underwear, they should be more like
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basketball shorts instead.
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Okay.
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Instead of underwear, which they quickly scrapped that idea.
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But yeah.
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Also, it came down to the question of the cape and what is the practical purpose of the cape?
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What does the cape mean?
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Exactly.
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I mean, I was going to treat it again the same way.
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Because usually a cape on a hero in comics is a great way of showing
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that character in action.
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And on film, the reason for using it on film is because it hides the zipper in the back.
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So that's why a lot of superheroes have capes.
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But much like Batman who can use his cape to go out to the air, why does Superman need it?
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Yeah.
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John Peters made the suggestion that he could kind of use it kind of like a lasso or even a weapon.
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What?
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I can see why Peters is throwing that out there.
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So like, I kind of think of it like the cape that Dr. Strange has.
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Okay, yeah.
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Where he got to throw it out there and it kind of like does his bidding and looks out for him.
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So I can understand maybe he has a cape like that, but for the most part, like in the canon of Superman, it just doesn't.
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Or maybe just let him have a cape because capes are cool.
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Yeah, you know, if you just don't address it, which even in the Donner films, the cape is just accepted.
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There's no explanation for it.
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You don't need an explanation for it.
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We know what Superman looks like.
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In the modern day Superman, he just has a cape and it's fine.
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Yeah, we know him to have a cape.
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And if he did not have a cape, it would be more unusual.
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And I think it would be more unusual for him to be fighting with the cape.
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Yeah, it would.
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He put it out there, but they didn't really address it after that.
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And they just kind of ignored John Peters.
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And then on top of that, had to come down to Nicholas Cage's hair.
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I like it.
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I'm starting to get attached to this legs.
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What do you think?
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We know Superman, for the most part, has always had short hair.
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This is Nicholas Cage around the time that he did con air.
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I mean, he had a perfect look for Superman because in con air, he's very built.
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But he had his long hair and they had to decide, well, is he going to keep his long hair?
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Or not?
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Because in the 90s comics though, he did have long hair, especially when he died.
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And he was resurrected in the fortress of solitude.
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He stayed there for a very, very long time.
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I think that's the most noticeable thing about that publicity picture of Nicholas Cage and the
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Superman outfit that you can find that's like, you know, is tied to this project so much.
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Is the long hair sticks out like a sore thumb?
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They were kind of back and forth on it.
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And I can't confirm, but I also can't deny that they were going to use his long hair or not.
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Because they were debating it because Superman at the time in the 90s, in the comic books,
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he did have long hair in that.
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So they were considering it for that.
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But this is still pre-production and he's in between projects.
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So for him to have long hair doesn't seem unusual.
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But the suit that was probably the most important was his regeneration suit.
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This is actually really interesting.
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After Superman is killed by Doomsday, Kell L's robot assistant K,
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he envelops himself around Superman to help regenerate and bring him back to life.
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And eventually becomes his new suit.
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Wow, interesting.
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So instead of a black suit, like we saw in the comics, instead,
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we got more of like this cyborg,
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ectoskeletal, like pink Floyd laser light show kind of suit.
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Weird.
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So what is sparkle, do you think it is?
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But does the imagination of the child?
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It was so cool.
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It's so interesting if you see any behind the scenes.
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There's so much behind the scenes footage of that suit being put together.
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And it was amazing.
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The special effects artist that was in charge of this team that was Steve Johnson.
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He worked previously on an American whirlwind London, Ghost Busters,
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Big Trouble in Chinatown, Nightmare on Elm Street 4.
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Species, we'd mentioned that before,
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Return of the Living Dead 3 and so much more.
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Basically when it comes to like prosthetics and weird costumes,
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he was the guy to go to.
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The costume team went through so many prototypes trying to get this right.
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They tried different types of silicon and rubber suits that were
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difficult to put on and remove.
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The movement in them were very limited once you got them on.
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And any movement was met with what they called buckling,
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which I'd never heard this term before, but buckling is
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whenever a suit wrinkles and you can visibly see that wrinkle or like bulges out
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almost that's what buckling is.
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So they were trying to avoid that.
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The design that worked best though that came from Bill Bryan,
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who had worked on a Dune, Army of Darkness, Species and Ghost Busters.
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In fact, Bill had met Steve Johnson while they both worked on Ghost Busters.
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And he took this method that he learned from Ghost Busters
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and he actually started making these vacuum forming plastic pieces
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that would then weave together, kind of like scales.
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So the movement would look a lot smoother and avoid that buckling and rubber look.
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They were overlapping each other and whenever Superman would move,
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they would just kind of like shift closer together,
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kind of like little plates or like scales is the best way to describe it.
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And then underneath the suit were these fiber optic cables
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that were all sequenced to light up to look like electricity
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is running through Superman's body suit.
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On the other hand though, we have Brainiac and trying to figure out what he was
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going to look like.
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So in the script, it said that Brainiac and Lex Luthor,
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they would fuse together into one entity, like I've mentioned before,
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very much like Correl and Voldemort and Harry Potter.
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Now Lex would be on the back of Brainiac's head.
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Next Brainiac's head would be in this clear dome, kind of like a fishbowl,
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like the crystal ball that you see on Disneyland's haunted mansion,
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or it was very much like Mysterio.
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And then below him was a cloak or like this big cape.
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And the reason for this was so that in the final fight,
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it would be revealed that for Brainiac's body is actually just the spider legs that appear
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and he's able to move around that way.
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So he doesn't have an actual body.
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It's just like his head is his body and then just emerges legs.
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Because well, I mean, John Peter's got his wish.
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He got his spider that he wanted.
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And that was the way they were going to work.
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Which I actually kind of enjoy that idea.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Instead of like him demanding, hey, he should fight a spider and they think, well,
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we should just put a giant spider in there.
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It's a minion, but like to actually make the actual villain himself the spider
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makes it a little more terrifying.
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I do enjoy that concept.
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There's definitely a lot of really cool visual ideas in this.
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So once went by millions of dollars had been spent,
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John Peters was continually unhappy with the direction of Superman
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and decided to hire another writer for the script.
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It's going to work out great.
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This writer was Dan Gilroy, who at the time had only written for two successful films.
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It was Chasers in Freejack.
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He would later go on to write the born legacy.
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He directed Nightcrawler and he wrote Kong Skull Island and just wrote a bunch of more stuff
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after that.
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I thought I recognized that name.
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This was definitely early in his career.
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Yeah, and he's got some good projects under his belt.
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He does. He knows what he's doing.
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In his script, there was much more of an emphasis on Clark Kent being an alien
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and having the realization of who he is in this world and like how devastating that could be
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on him. Like this was a concept that was brought up before,
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but just having that idea that Clark Kent is alone in this.
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He is the only alien that's on Earth and the other alien that's coming to Earth is there to kill him.
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So he's having to deal with that existential crisis.
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He had concerns about what if he had a baby with Lewis Lane and would a baby kill her during child
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birth? Would it like burst out of her kind of like an alien through her Chasers stomach?
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There was even a scene where Clark Kent was going to propose to Lewis and he was so nervous that
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he started shaking his leg and because of that the whole restaurant started shaking like an earthquake.
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Another change that was made is that Superman wasn't going to fly.
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So much like how Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster originally wrote the character,
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he would actually leap through the air.
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For him, he thought the idea of him just kind of floating in the air seemed really silly
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and he wanted Superman to be more physics-based.
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And there was even a scene written in the script and it was storyboarded out of Superman kind of parkoring
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through Metropolis, which I think would be amazing to see Superman parkoring.
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But after some screen tests of Superman flying, so like when they were trying to do screen tests
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of the suit, they actually did some effects shots as well of Superman flying and they decided that
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looks a lot better than him kind of jumping around. There was a few other ridiculous scenes in there
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like there was one where Superman had to fight off a bunch of ninjas.
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Which I mean doesn't seem unusual anymore since John Peters demanded that
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brainy act would fight a polar bear. So yeah, sure, Superman fights ninjas.
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Okay, so back to the designer. Because the designers were given so much free range and had so much time
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to develop the look of the film. With this being an audio medium, it's really hard to show this,
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but they worked on a few things like what Krypton would look like, the Kryptonians, the fortress
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of solitude, the daily planet, Lex Corp, and the different aliens that were featured in the
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miniaturay. And the design of Doomsday, who at this point was just kind of like a body of heads,
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which would be able to like morph into different heads.
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Okay.
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This is such an interesting alien. Do you remember the face stealer from Avatar the Last Airbender?
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Yeah, of course.
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So that was the idea of Doomsday was that he was kind of put together with a bunch of heads,
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like heads put together to like make a body. It's so hard to like describe this.
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Yeah, until you see it. But the idea was that Doomsday could change the faces on his body
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and then start to resemble people that Clark Kent had known. So he could easily put up a face of
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like lowest lane. And if he sees the face of lowest lane, like he doesn't want to punch her,
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and he doesn't want to punch a face that looks like her, even though he's trying to fight off Doomsday.
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So I thought that was an interesting concept to throw in there that it's not just a physical fight
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for Superman. It's a psychological fight.
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Yeah, which is what you got to do for the most powerful superhero.
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Yeah. So the movie just kept growing. There were more action scenes and details and with that,
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the estimated budget just kept ballooning bigger and bigger. The estimations for the project alone
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were $200 million. This doesn't include the $30 million that were already spent on pre-production alone.
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And then on top of that, the distribution would be anywhere from like $300 million. I mean, I get it from
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an executive point of view. You're looking at this huge price tag and just like, I don't know if it's
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worth it anymore. And no one seems to be happy with this project. So why keep going and spend so
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much money on this? I don't know. I feel like there's this kind of too big to fail effect that
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happens when budgets balloon that big, especially with an established IP like Superman.
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It's like there's an assumption that people are still going to go see it just because it's this big
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thing. And for the most part, they're right. Big massive budget movies still tend to make money even if
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they don't get as well-praised or well-reviewed. Yeah, that's true. They're in panic mode. A lot of
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scenes were getting cut from the script. A lot of set pieces were scaled down. So like, for example,
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in the script, if it said like seven buildings toppled over instead, that would just change
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and turn into a scene of like pedestrians in a elevator and they would be in that building as it
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toppled over, but it would only show the elevator things like that. The parts that were really
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exciting initially because they started scaling down. They started to lose their appeal and some of
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those scenes just started disappearing entirely. And then WB at that time, they were starting to worry
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because outside of Superman, they had other films that were just tanking in the box office. The late
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90s, early 2000s for Warner Bros. If you look at their movie lineup, it's just almost all of them
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are forgettable and no one with members that they exist. But they were just doing so bad in the box
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office. So they're looking at this huge price ticket and they have no revenue coming in to be like,
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we can't make this movie safely without possibly going belly up. Financially, I get it. I understand
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why they would pull the plug on this. So then in April of 1998, the film was put on hold indefinitely.
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And on their website, supermanlives.com, they put out a statement. I actually did go to supermanlives.com
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to see if it was still there. It actually just redirects you to Warner Bros. website. So boo.
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Oh, bummer. It's not like the space jam website. Oh, I love the space jam website. But the statement
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that was put on supermanlives.com was out of commitment to Superman's worldwide legacy and countless
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fans and to the potential of creating a Superman story that will push the narrative envelope. Warner
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Brothers has decided to postpone the start of production on its Superman movie. Warner Brothers
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feels that at this time the script was not yet due full justice to the potential of the film
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and of the character. One of the most popular heroes in history. The project which had been
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tentatively scheduled to begin principal photography later the summer remains an active development.
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Warner Brothers intends to aggressively continue developing it, the Superman project until it
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satisfies the highest standards of everyone involved. I mean, it's a very professional way of saying like
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no one's happy with this and it's too expensive. Was this being shelved before Batman Forever was a thing?
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No, so this was announced in 1998. Batman Forever came out in 1995. Okay. Batman and Robin just came out
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the year before in 97. So the reasoning that they're putting out there if you know we want to make sure
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this is the best story possible sounds very noble and if it's true it is very noble but also it could
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very easily be studios just trying to say face and whatever possible and what really could be happening
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is they're saying that the superhero genre is on a downswing and is becoming a joke and isn't
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making the money that's going to justify it. That could be more of a reasoning to say like
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we're not going to do this because our Batman movies are starting to flop and the superhero thing
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isn't going to stick around. That's true and they're already experiencing two Joel Schumacher
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superhero movies, the Batman movies and those budgets ballooned up and didn't pay off as big as
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they wanted it to. So that's understandable. They're just hoping that they're not making the same
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mistake again and they're also taking a risk on a director who's not really known for doing
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conventional superheroes and they already made that risk with Joel Schumacher who's not a
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conventional superhero director and he made these really silly and campy Batman movies that
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had a huge backlash. So I can see why they've seen this story before they're not going to repeat
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themselves again. Everyone was let go from the project at the time. There were some crew members.
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It was great. They arranged fake funerals with sketches of Superman that would sit inside of a coffin.
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Tim Burton left to make Sleepy Hollow. He also left with the $5 million from that contract.
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He later on said, "I made the movie only I didn't film it." Then Nick Cage left $20 million
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richer and I guess bought the dinosaur egg with it. But I mean he was really disappointed to leave.
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He didn't want to let this go and he knew that he was going to play a very unique and different
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Superman. I think he would have been fantastic and I know we kind of briefly talked about the casting
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of it but you think about someone like Nicholas Cage who is fully committing to this role who is a
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big comic book nerd and hero. He understands this character but is also willing to go down the
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direction that Tim Burton wants to go down saying like, "You're not like anyone else. You are an
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alien on this planet." How do you act knowing that? You know he would have fully committed to what
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that would have felt like? That character is such a bullseye that you have to hit. He is one of the
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most precious icons of our country. Tim and I were pre-forward down the road designing it and I know
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with Tim and where I was going to go we would have done something really special. At least it's out
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there in the ether that that could have happened but it doesn't have to we don't have to make the movie.
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It's still interesting to people. Although he did eventually and I know he mentioned this before that
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he named his son Cal L. So this was after Superman. But something that did happen and did come true
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kind of was that in the 2018 Teen Titans go to the movies they did have Superman in there and cast
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as the voice for Superman was an image. I need to hear that. Titans if you keep playing the fool
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you'll never be seen as real heroes only as jokes. Somebody saved me. He finally did it. He finally
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got to play Superman. I mean he didn't get to fully dive into the character but at least for my
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satisfaction he did get to play Superman even if it wasn't for a live action movie I think he was
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able to fulfill that. You know it's so interesting to me that like Nicholas Cage arguably is a bigger
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fan of superheroes than any other big name actor or anybody else who has played or almost played
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a superhero like he is into superheroes to a bit of a crazy degree I it might not be a good thing
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to name your son Cal L. But it is weird that he has been especially in in the last couple of years
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been given opportunities to play in superhero worlds but it's always been kind of on the fringes of
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things like the biggest thing he did was Ghost Rider and that was still sort of like you know not
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the biggest Marvel movie and on the fringe and like pre MCU where it existed in this weird middle
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ground where it's like okay where we've got the X-Men movies that are doing well but you know fantastic
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for isn't working and these other things aren't working and in this weird time before the MCU
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we get him being Spider-Man noir we get him being Superman and Teen Titans go he has never had that
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chance to really dive into being a superhero at this point he probably is never going to have that
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chance I feel like the biggest superhero thing that he'll have other than Ghost Rider at this
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point or he has a chance at getting is something like Jeff Goldblum level Marvel villain heck I could
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see him playing Jeff Goldblum's character in Thor like that could have easily been Nicholas Cage
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and would have been great but that's the kind of thing I see happening for Nicholas Cage now at this
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point I think because of the age that Nicholas Cage is at now I can see if he ever were to revisit
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a live action Superman what would satisfy me is if they were doing more of an old Superman yeah
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which I haven't really seen much of that adaptation of like an older Superman who's kind of wanting to
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pass on his legacy onto another Superman or Superboy or whatever it may be so I think it would be
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something like that kind of like how we're in the Snyderverse how they're treating Batman now this
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is a much older Batman kind of like a Batman who's come out of retirement and has to fight again
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I feel like you could go along that route if you were to use Nicholas Cage in that Superman role
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but I think what would be better and to make a story that fits more into the lore of Superman that we
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know I think if we saw Nick Cage as Lex Luthor I think he would be fantastic at that oh
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I never saw Batman V Superman I saw lots of clips of Jesse Eisenberg's very strange take on Lex Luthor
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and I feel like if you gave that exact same direction to Nicholas Cage he would have been able to
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pull it off he would have and he would have I felt like been more believable in that instance where
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Jesse Eisenberg he does pull it off but I think because of the pigeonhole that we put him in through
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the movies he's done before it's so hard to separate that image and put it into this not even just
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Lex Luthor but this very extravagant eccentric Lex Luthor which I am enjoying that type of character
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it's just so hard to picture Jesse Eisenberg doing that Jesse Eisenberg's not the right person for him
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I think you'll have to see it but in my head like he pulls it off but the image doesn't really work for me
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he doesn't physically seem intimidating where Nicholas Cage I feel like you could get that physical
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intimidation out of Gene Hackman has this physicalness about him this big like broad
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shoulder-ness where you feel him commanding the room and I thought that was a brilliant casting when
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they brought him on to do Lex Luthor that he has that command in the room that I found very appealing
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and very fitting for the character and I feel like for Cage he could pull that off if he was
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given the role of Lex. Yeah when you were building up to that I thought you were going to say that
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you could see him playing Jorrell you know Superman's father Kryptonian father but I like the Lex idea
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better I think that's a much better idea. I think if you're gonna use Nicholas Cage you use him for
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the full film where when they brought in Marlon Brando to play Kellogg's father he was only there
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most predominantly in the beginning and just kind of like Skype in every once in a while throughout
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the movie we do have to mention John Peters and what he went on to because he put on this little film
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called Wild Wild West which if you don't know already spoiler alert in the third act we see Kenneth
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Brana fighting with Will Smith Kelvin Klein while he's in this giant goddamn mechanical steam punk
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spider thing he has an 80 foot torrential of yes well coming to that
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nice to see an invention that actually works. Peter's got his wish yeah whatever
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on a side note though in September of 1998 there was an aspiring screen writer and comic book fan
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Alex Ford who actually submitted a script named Superman Man of Steel which was actually a seven
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part movie series. It actually impressed a lot of the producers at WB and they said this is great
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and they actually pass it on to John Peters and Peters looked at it and he was like no I don't want to
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do that which I think knowing how Peters operates I think that he didn't even read it at all
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that's what I want to believe that he saw oh since your Superman movie is failing here's one that
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could succeed and he's like what you're calling me a failure because I can't get this movie done
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I'm gonna keep going with this I don't care about these other ideas so and knowing that he doesn't
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read scripts but has people read it to him yeah I want to believe that he just dismissed it without
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even thinking about it. Now just because cage burn Peter said left that doesn't mean that WB
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was ready to shut down the project just yet producer Lorenzo de Bonaventura which we mentioned before
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in our Batman episode he was seeking to get Superman back on the silver screen other directors
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that were considered to make go Royce script or Michael Bay and Martin Campell they didn't go
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through with those but in July of 1999 writer William Wischer who had written Terminator Terminator 2
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Judge Stred the 13th lawyer he attempted his take on the story the directors that were considered
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for that was Shihar Kapoor who had recently directed Elizabeth another director was Simon West who had
431
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:06,000
done Conair and I did not know this but he directed the Rick Asley never gonna give you up music video
432
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:19,920
oh interesting the guy who directed that music video never gonna give you up also directed Conair
433
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:28,960
there was Ralph Zondag who directed we're back a dinosaur story which is a sequel to a dinosaur
434
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:35,600
story and later on directed dinosaur that live action Disney movie in the early 2000s
435
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:41,120
that one not many people remember but I had a DVD of that and I remember seeing that was just so
436
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,640
life like to me although if I revisited it might not be I'm kind of scared to watch it now I don't
437
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:53,200
want to destroy my childhood or my nostalgia another one was Steven Norton who had directed death
438
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:59,200
machine and blade I mean we know that none of them eventually directed it but Wischer's story
439
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:06,560
didn't seem to pan out seeing that they got a different writer to now make a script and this was
440
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:13,920
Paul Atanasio who had written quiz show and at Donnie Brasco he was actually hired in 2001
441
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:19,760
and he was there to write another draft for The Man of Steel now that doesn't mean that Superman was
442
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:26,640
out of the limelight completely with the image of Christopher Reeves Superman becoming dimmer and dimmer
443
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:33,520
the show Lois and Clark the new adventures of Superman that was actually canceled in 1997 but at that
444
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:48,320
time smallville came out and actually started to recapture a lot of these Superman fans and kind of like
445
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:55,280
reignited that Superman fandom so they knew that this would sell in 2002 it was reported that Charlie's
446
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:03,520
angels director Mick G who set to direct Ednazio's Superman script while at the same time JJ Abrams
447
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:09,280
had pitched a superman trilogy which we had mentioned before in the Batman episode now this was
448
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:16,240
actually a separate pitch because if you remember he was going into trying help reboot the Batman
449
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:21,600
franchise and with the idea of like Batman versus Superman that's where he came in is like we have
450
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:28,080
to start at Superman first and here's what I'm going to propose in his film Superman faces off with
451
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:36,320
Kryptonian Tysor early in the script in about six pages in Tysor defeats Superman which is when we
452
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:45,040
flash back to Krypton who is under attack by Rausers which are the like giant three-legged mech warrior
453
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:53,600
machines controlled by Kedazor who is the brother of Jor-L Kedazor is in search of Jor-L son Cal-L
454
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,960
not knowing that he has actually been shot off into space moments before the attack
455
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:04,720
we watch Clark Kent grow up in smallville move to Metropolis become a journalist for the daily
456
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:10,800
planet and fall in love with Lois Lane Blah that we know is going to happen while Lois is investigating
457
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:18,720
the CIA division that observes UFOs there is the secret CIA special agent Dr. Lex Luther
458
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:24,880
he admits that they have discovered a crashed spacecraft similar to the one that Cal-L had crashed
459
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:32,160
in when he was a child in a save the cat moment Superman saves Air Force one from crash landing
460
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:39,120
that had both Lois Lane and the president inside of it so it seems to me like every Superman movie
461
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:46,080
that goes out there Superman always has to save people in a plane even the pilot episode of Supergirl
462
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:52,480
one of the first things she does saves people on a plane it's such a dramatic thing and it's you
463
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:59,440
know one of those tasks that really only Superman can do one thing that I did enjoy about the boys
464
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:06,240
in season one when homelander was on the plane that is an iconic scene of that show that sequence is
465
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:12,480
like the reason to watch the show I love that they took that trope that we always see in Superman
466
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:20,800
movies and flipped it on his head and explaining it to the Wonder Woman character explains it to her
467
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:27,200
saying like yeah you gotta go out there lift the plane up lift the plane how there's nothing to stand
468
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,560
on it's fucking air I don't know fly at it Ram it's straight come back kind of speed either the plane
469
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:38,160
goes that so we did or I'll punch straight through the hole for them to turn it yeah like that and
470
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:44,880
be like this is unreasonable to expect this it's so oh it's so great I remember being wowed by
471
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,280
that sequence when it first came out and talking about the show to people is like this is the dark
472
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:55,680
superhero movie because you get a sequence where Superman is like oh we've got to let this entire
473
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,640
plane full of people die because there's no way I can save all of them and if I save only some of
474
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,280
them it's gonna look bad for me so instead we're just gonna let everybody yeah because they'll spread
475
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:10,800
the word yeah so instead we're gonna let everybody die and I'll just say that I was too late yeah I
476
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:17,920
think that show is not a perfect show but it does do a lot of really cool things with the superhero
477
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:25,040
genre yes even Seth Rogan he was asked while you're making the show do you look at superhero movies
478
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:31,920
differently or do you not like them anymore he's like no I still love superhero movies I just like
479
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,560
this idea of putting superheroes in the real world with real problems and what does it look like
480
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:43,760
for them to have more of a celebrity culture identity so you don't look at it is like
481
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:49,040
there was superhero you look at it is like there was celebrity and how does that affect them on top
482
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:55,280
of being a superhero everything that's happened this year has certainly affected the lens through which I
483
00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:02,080
view all media and like there's so many things that I look at differently now because of events that
484
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:09,440
have happened over the last six months and one of those things is the way we view police now and
485
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:16,640
kind of the yeah realizations of the problems with police superhero movies are cop stories yeah
486
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:24,240
and like superheroes or cops and that is a problem and something to address and think about yeah I
487
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:30,160
think the closest we've got to like a more popular medium of like superhero movies is when we had
488
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:37,040
civil war come out of this idea of like we need to take responsibility for our actions yeah but even
489
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:42,480
then I feel like that movie plays it very very safe because you know I love my Marvel movies especially
490
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:48,560
Captain America movies that movie in particular I have problems with because it brings up these big
491
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:55,200
questions of like what responsibility do superheroes have but I got frustrated because the third act
492
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:01,040
the conflict stops being about the role of superheroes and starts becoming just a conflict between
493
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:07,040
these two personalities it kind of abandons that question and never really wrestles with that question
494
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:14,240
in the way I would personally love to see it wrestled with but but it's tough because it's like there's
495
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:19,920
not gonna be an easy answer that is going to make sense in your big budget blockbuster film that
496
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:25,840
you want everybody to watch and enjoy and not be too offended by yeah I mean most people were not going
497
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,080
to see that movie because the conflict was interesting they're going to see the movie because they
498
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:38,320
tease spider-man in the trailer yeah okay so saves Lois Lane president Air Force one he rescues the
499
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:46,080
plate because of that Superman's popularity it blows up it grows and while that happens his earth
500
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:52,160
father Jonathan Clark he dies of a coronary which has been done in the comics before it was done in
501
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:57,520
the original movie that's kind of like his uncle Ben moment he's dead and like how is he going to
502
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:04,160
honor his life and go on to like be bigger than he was and there's one thing I do know son and that is you
503
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:11,360
are here for a reason I don't know who's reason whatever the reason is not as memorable as with great
504
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:17,680
power comes great responsibility so not as memorable as that but that is kind of like his push his motive
505
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:25,360
he does go back home he comforts his mother Martha while she's grieving but she also convinces him
506
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:31,440
that he needs to go out and still be a superhero that's not worth it for him to just go back home
507
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:36,640
after this death didn't stay there with Martha like he needs to go out there and be his own person be
508
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:43,200
his own superhero while he was doing an interview with Lois as Superman they were at the Washington's
509
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:50,400
national mall that's where we see one of Tisor's Rousers attack which causes superman to like bounce
510
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,880
back into action this was just supposed to be like a big action sequence that just like takes place in
511
00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:01,120
a mall Lex Luthor who wasn't a fan of Superman he actually uses this opportunity to point out that
512
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:10,320
Superman is an alien and he is also welcoming unwanted aliens to earth and battling with them which
513
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:15,920
is ultimately causing this destruction so he's getting a lot of people in his science and like if
514
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,720
he wasn't here in the first place our mall wouldn't be destroyed and these people wouldn't be dead
515
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:28,000
because of it so soon after Tisor is revealed with three other Kryptonians they was Basil,
516
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:34,320
Kahn and Alta who are all there to fight Superman with some of the Kryptonite that was stolen
517
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:41,840
from the Smithsonian Institute asteroid collection Tisor manages to use that to kill Superman
518
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:48,240
the Kryptonians team up with Lex Luthor who has somehow become the president of the United States
519
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:55,200
whenever I hear the word somehow I just think of Rizah Skywalker somehow Palpatine is returned
520
00:43:55,200 --> 00:44:01,440
somehow Lex Luthor is a president but sure although that's a comic thing right doesn't Lex Luthor
521
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:08,560
become president in a comic run somewhere I believe so I think he does while Superman is dead he's
522
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:15,440
not actually dead but he enters this endless abyss white space which JJ Abrams
523
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:23,520
ummm termed the infinity timeless where he learns of a prophecy in this prophecy there was a prince
524
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:30,240
that was sent away raised on another world he's faced with a challenge and when that challenge
525
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:37,440
is defeated he must return home to fulfill his destiny there's nothing dumber than prophecies
526
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:43,440
and chosen one narratives and it's like isn't it enough that Superman is the last surviving alien
527
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,040
of this planet isn't isn't that interesting enough do we have to
528
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:55,920
I'm sorry I'm just getting frustrated about Ray Palpatine all over again I guess this just explains
529
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:02,160
how Superman comes to life yeah and he actually bursts out of his coffin he then defeats Lex
530
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:09,840
tie and his goons he then returns back to krypton and this is presumably where the second movie would
531
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:15,600
begin for the most part the script was well received one of the major issues that was brought up
532
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:22,560
was when Clark Kent goes home to comfort Martha she gives Clark this metal artifacts
533
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,840
and when it was put together in the negative space of it it actually carves out this s symbol
534
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,240
which he then puts on his chest it was implied that it was given to Martha and Jonathan by
535
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:40,720
Jorelle before Calel ever landed on planet earth which is strange that yeah he would go there ahead of
536
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:47,600
time because he sends Calel out in the state of emergency and doesn't know where he's gonna end up
537
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:53,360
but the fact that he had this planned to be like hey I need you to take care of this and I think
538
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:59,920
this is just more so to fit into the prophecy that was mentioned before but that is a ridiculous
539
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:07,440
plot point and even more crazy part was when Superman and supercharged 50-year-old kung fu master
540
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:14,000
Lex Luther fight in the third act of the movie overall the script seemed to have Superman elements
541
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:19,040
but didn't fully understand the character and the themes of the comics although the producer that
542
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:25,680
really loved it that was John Peters really loved this script he thought the script was great
543
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,480
and with Sam Raimi's Spider-Man just released around this time with the lighthearted tone of the
544
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:36,800
script he seemed that it was appropriate compared to Burton's odd and dark take on the character
545
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:43,360
yeah and we mentioned before like the conflict in the Batman episode between Batman versus Superman
546
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:50,320
Lorenzo and him having to quit after this and all that stuff both scripts Batman versus Superman
547
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:57,280
JJ Abrams Superman script they were given to 10 executives at Warner Brothers to decide which
548
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:03,200
would be the best direction to go and overwhelmingly they sided with Peter saying that they should
549
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:10,560
make the JJ Abrams trilogy which went over Lorenzo's decision which eventually he got out of that
550
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:19,200
situation mech G again was the first choice to direct JJ Abrams script when the studio decided that
551
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:25,520
they were going to film this they wanted to film this in Australia to cut a lot of the costs
552
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:30,480
and mech G he then left the project when they said that they were going to film in Australia
553
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:39,200
partly because he is fearful of flying I was not aware of this but yeah he has a mech G who
554
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:47,600
directed Charlie's Angels is afraid of flying also sounds like a great fear to have when you are
555
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:53,280
making a movie about a guy who flies yeah crazy so instead of doing this he actually went on to make
556
00:47:53,280 --> 00:48:02,080
the sequel to Charlie's Angels full throttle oh that movies it's great for me Charlie's Angels is a
557
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:09,040
guilty pleasure they're they're fun next in line to direct was Brett Ratner who had directed a bunch
558
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:16,480
of music videos he had directed rush hour one and two and the family man with Nick Cage and he
559
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:22,880
was brought on to take on the JJ Abrams script to get the studio immediately excited he wanted to cast
560
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:29,440
Anthony Hopkins he recently directed in Red Dragon as Jorrell Superman's father that would have
561
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:38,480
been cool it would have been just like his role in Thor yeah I sons I've been meeting for you I know
562
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:46,320
we've come to take you home home yeah that's what he is in Thor is now he's he'd be such great Jorrell
563
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:52,960
and then after wrestling with the budget Ratner decided to leave the production in March 19th of 2003
564
00:48:52,960 --> 00:49:02,960
next in line though was Brian Singer and he was just coming off of doing X-Men and the usual suspects
565
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:09,440
this is such a strange story but while he was at a Bob Dylan concert singer had a conversation with
566
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:15,840
his friend Kevin Spacey which you know they know each other from the usual suspects and Brian Singer
567
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:22,720
actually asked him about Superman because he knew that he was cast as Lex Luthor but he was asking if
568
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:27,440
Tim Burton was still attached to the project and Singer had actually been following this production
569
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:33,680
for years and while he was off making X-Men he was incredibly jealous that his former star Kevin
570
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:39,360
Spacey was going on to be in the next Superman movie as Lex Luthor singer it asked that what happened
571
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:45,600
and he basically told the whole story that I just did now that he knew that there was no director
572
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:52,480
attached to this project he immediately went to Warner Bros and he pitched his Superman movie
573
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:59,680
at this time Richard Donner's wife Lauren Schuller Donner she was actually the producer
574
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:08,640
for all of the X-Men movies that Singer was making while premiering X-Men 2 in April of 2003 Singer
575
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:17,360
would propose pitches to both Richard and Lauren about his Superman movie and he didn't so much want to
576
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:25,920
remake it but instead he wanted to make a vague sequel to the Superman 1 and Superman 2 being canon
577
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:32,960
and then just kind of ignoring Superman 3 and 4 and Supergirl kind of like with Jurassic World how they
578
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:39,520
just kind of said you know what's canon just the first Jurassic Park and will ignore the next two and
579
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:45,440
kind of continue on from there the idea was that Superman would be gone for a long time and the
580
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:51,440
world would have forgotten about him and years later he would come back to save the world. Singer began
581
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:58,960
at working with Michael Dottry and Dan Harris who had previously worked with Brian on X-Men 2
582
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:07,280
and they began working on the script. WB had Greenlit Superman Returns and in odd turn of events
583
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:13,680
Brett Radner he left the Superman project to actually go on to direct X-Men the last stand
584
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:20,480
while Singer stepped out to direct on top of that they managed to make the film at a budget the studio
585
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:28,640
was more comfortable with they actually proposed that it would be $223 million to produce it and
586
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:36,240
Singer managed to bring that down to $204 million so WB was really happy about that plus as we know
587
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:44,480
Kevin Spacey got to be Lex Luthor so hey gods or selfish beings who fly around in little red capes
588
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,040
and don't share their power with mankind he was attached to this project from the beginning and
589
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:55,680
I didn't know this before I didn't know that this was connected in any way from Tim Burton's
590
00:51:55,680 --> 00:52:01,680
Superman 2 Brian Singer Superman I had no idea the through line of it and I thought that Kevin
591
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:07,840
Spacey was considered and then he just had to get recasted again but no and said he was asked
592
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:14,320
do you want to play Lex Luthor he said yes and years later he became Lex Luthor. Is there anybody else
593
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:20,640
from Superman Lives who was a part of Superman Returns I mean is John Peters still around
594
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:26,400
putting his thumb in things? Yeah John Peters was the producer of Superman Returns yes oh okay
595
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:33,520
Superman Returns hits theaters on June 28th 2006 the opening weekend was underwhelming to say the
596
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:43,040
least it made about $52 million opening weekend and made over $200 million in the US during its theatrical run
597
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:49,120
this was actually being compared to X-Men the last stand which actually made over $100 million
598
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:56,560
in its opening weekend but for Brian Singer I believe that him just making a Superman movie was the
599
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:02,240
dream that he wanted to fill overall yeah I haven't seen Superman Returns it's interesting if you watch
600
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:09,120
the Donner Superman movies it's a lot more of the same just with updated technology mm-hmm
601
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,320
that's the best way to describe it yeah even in that one they have Superman saving people in a plane
602
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:21,920
what the hell is that there's some kind of unidentified booby coming in from the north
603
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,240
Roger that and it's coming in fast
604
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:34,480
in the end WB was just happy to get a Superman film out there it wasn't a flop but it wasn't a
605
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:41,840
major success either but for now the nightmare of a Superman development hell was over
606
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:49,360
I'm gonna end my notes with this quote which I thought was very fitting this is from one of the writers
607
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:55,440
of Superman Returns Michael Dorety he says I think Kevin Smith was the only one that wasn't about
608
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:01,120
the origin but they were all from what I know vastly different from what Donner had done
609
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:07,600
I don't want to say they were betrayals of Donner but I think what's really interesting about Superman
610
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:14,560
Legend and the character is that each incarnation in its own way pays tribute to the one that came before
611
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:20,480
it and it does so with any amount of respect for the source material and I felt that the previous
612
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:26,880
attempts were so different that they almost forgot about their ties to the legacy and the history
613
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:32,800
of the character I kind of have like two final thought conclusions that have been swirling around
614
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:39,360
my head about kind of what my takeaway is from this whole story because if Superman lives with Nicholas
615
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:45,200
Cage if Warner Bros. had decided not to shelve it and continued with production it was made
616
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,800
do you think it would have been good do you think it would have been successful you know they think
617
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:54,880
it would have been interesting I think it would have been interesting I don't think that
618
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,800
financially it would have been something that Warner Bros. would have been happy with
619
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:05,600
I feel like it just would have been part of the Burton era yeah something that I didn't bring up in
620
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:10,720
my notes that I should have mentioned in there because there were loose talks about this but
621
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:18,960
had this movie been made it would have opened up the idea of the Justice League yeah
622
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:24,880
and creating the Justice League with Nick Cage and Michael Keaton as part of the league which means
623
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:30,640
we would have gotten a flash movie we would have gotten a Wonder Woman movie much earlier we would
624
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:36,480
have gotten this Justice League movie earlier so I think had this movie gotten made I don't really
625
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:44,400
think of it much as what this individual movie what would have happened but I think it could have
626
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:52,160
launched something much bigger and more consistent within the DC cinematic universe yeah then what
627
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:58,800
we are seeing now when I hear this story I feel like if the movie was made and did come out it sounds to
628
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:06,800
me like it would have ended up being a complete mess because you have writers keep changing while you
629
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:15,440
have production designers creating ideas and creating looks and creating set pieces while the script
630
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:21,840
itself is still being rethought and the fundamental like idea of what the story is focusing on keeps being
631
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:30,160
rethought and it reminds me so much of what happened on the hobbit where you know you had all this
632
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:35,600
pre-production done while they were still trying to figure out script stuff and so you were trying to
633
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:43,280
marry set pieces and visual ideas to story and it just became a mess or what I feel like happened
634
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:48,560
on Riza Skywalker we don't have nearly as much great information on the behind the scenes of Riza
635
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:55,360
Skywalker because Disney is really tight-lipped about that but based off of the super short time frame
636
00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:01,120
that they had to make that movie and just kind of the way the movie feels to me it feels like
637
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:08,160
all of these set pieces were created in conjunction with J.J. Abrams and Crishtario trying to figure
638
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:13,920
out what the script was and so to me that movie feels like it's just going from set piece to set piece
639
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:21,360
but the through line isn't there yeah do you know offhand to the directors that were considered
640
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:28,320
in quit for Riza Skywalker for Riza Skywalker yeah so it was originally Colin Travaro when they first
641
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:36,160
announced the creative team for Riza Skywalker it was Colin Travaro directing and Ryan Johnson writing
642
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:43,040
which you know Ryan Johnson was going to write and direct eight and then just write nine to finish off nine
643
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:49,040
I believe in the process with Colin Travaro Ryan Johnson wasn't the writer anymore and then he got fired
644
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:56,400
two years before Disney wanted to release Riza Skywalker believe it was after last Jedi came out
645
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:05,360
that Colin Travaro got fired and then J.J. Abrams was brought on with Crishtario directing and we got
646
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:11,920
Riza Skywalker and it really really feels to me like just based off of the really short time frame
647
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:17,920
and based off of how much pre-pro work was done before J.J. Abrams was brought on and the mess that
648
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:23,520
that movie feels like to me it really seems like it was a similar situation of all this pre-prose
649
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:29,040
being worked on while the script is trying to be figured out at the same time and so the final film
650
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:37,200
is just kind of a mess or probably the favorite one sentence review I heard from somebody was
651
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:43,440
it's a series of great scenes that could have been viewed in any order and like that's how Riza Skywalker
652
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:48,640
felt and it feels to me like the same thing what happened with Superman lives is that there would have
653
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:54,560
been a lot of cool visuals and some cool scenes but the through line wouldn't have been there and it
654
00:58:54,560 --> 00:59:00,800
just kind of would have been a mess now do you think had John Peters had been more hands off
655
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:08,960
do you think there might have been maybe more consistency in the story the through line and had he
656
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:18,480
not been so controlling and so in making this toxic environment for these designers I know I
657
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:25,600
believe that they could have made something consistent more through line and a better story instead of
658
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:32,720
or even Kevin Smith like they were being bombarded this whole time it sounds to me like John Peters is
659
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:38,800
just obsessed with set pieces and just obsessed with you know what's going to sell the best toys
660
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,760
and just obsessed with this you told the story of him staring up at the ceiling and imagining the
661
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:50,320
movie with while Kevin Smith read it and yes the visual aspect is so so important but it seems
662
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:56,080
like he's so obsessed with getting the certain visuals whether it's a giant mechanical spider or
663
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:05,120
whatever is into this movie that it's completely abandoning the need for one story that is the
664
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:11,280
driving aspect of the film you know and this is something that they talk about with the Marvel movies
665
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:16,800
and Kevin Feige and I think one of the reasons why those movies in that series is so successful is
666
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:22,560
they don't go into a movie being like okay this movie we want to have Spider-Man show up and we want
667
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:28,080
to have this sequence in there and we want to have this happen they say this is the main story we
668
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:34,800
want to tell and then we figure out what works best with that story in there you know I don't think
669
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:42,320
they went into endgame with the idea of oh let's do callbacks to these previous scenes and let's
670
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:48,160
make sure we have a sequence of cap wielding a hammer and let's do all of this it feels to me more like
671
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:54,320
they were like okay here's the big issue we need to solve and in dealing with that main story let's
672
01:00:54,320 --> 01:01:00,880
figure out these other things that we can tie into it I feel like if you were going into that movie
673
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,960
with the okay this is going to be our time travel movie where we're going to do all these other
674
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:09,680
big set pieces I feel like there would have been different set pieces chosen they wouldn't have
675
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:16,240
gone back to Thor the dark world because nobody would want to return to that movie but that was the
676
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:21,520
sequence that made the most sense with the story they were already trying to tell and that's what
677
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:28,800
ended up being the best version of the story in my opinion I think it's assigned to me that story
678
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:33,760
needs to always come first yeah and in the end that's where we're going to remember and even with
679
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:40,880
something like Tim Burton taking on Batman the thing that I take away the most from Batman watching
680
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:46,720
those is the story that comes out of it the characters that come out of it like I'm not necessarily
681
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:53,920
looking for the merchandise so not I don't remember much of Jill Shrewmocker's movies every once in
682
01:01:53,920 --> 01:02:01,360
a while I actually have to look up wait was Val Kilmer in Batman and Robin or Batman forever I can't
683
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:09,360
because they were so modeled into that kind of era and messiness and it was just it was tossed aside
684
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:14,720
because of what was put into it and now we just remember it as like that's the campy movie
685
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:23,600
and had Superman lives been done properly with the idea of Nicholas Cage taking on this character
686
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:30,480
to be so unique and alien like which we never really saw much of we kind of saw it in
687
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:35,920
Donner's Superman where Superman is very meek when he is Clark Kent
688
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:55,040
but you don't believe him as he's an alien on earth and I think the concept of Superman being an
689
01:02:55,040 --> 01:03:02,320
alien on earth is still something that could be rustled with at least in the cinematic universe I believe
690
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:07,920
that they started touching on it when they were doing smallville I didn't dive in after Lex's car
691
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:15,360
it hit me at 60 miles an hour does that sound normal to you I give anything to be normal I really like
692
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:23,280
that idea in for Superman movie to actually take on that conflict I think that is what needs to happen
693
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:34,000
in at least the cinematic universe of Superman I don't think you can do a good Superman story anymore like
694
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,480
I don't think you can do a good Superman story but not for the reasons that a lot of people say
695
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:43,120
there's a lot of people say you can't make a good Superman movie because Superman is too powerful
696
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:49,200
and I don't think that's the issue I think you can make a super super powerful character like that
697
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:55,920
and still give them conflicts that are interesting where the stakes feel real I think the reason why
698
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:03,520
you're never going to be able to do a great Superman movie anymore is because Superman is such
699
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:11,680
in archetype of the genre that what Superman means is more interesting to think about it as Superman
700
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:17,680
connects to our real world culture more than the story itself like I think about and this is just
701
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:22,800
something I was thinking about in our part one discussion with talking about the origins of Superman
702
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:29,760
as a character and how he's become like the archetype for the superhero and I think that fact gets
703
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:36,720
in the way of us being able to create the ideal Superman movie especially since we already have the
704
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:43,040
true to the story movie with Richard Donner Superman with Christopher Reeve I think it's the same reason why
705
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:50,560
I don't believe we're ever going to be able to get another great story set in middle earth set in
706
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:57,280
the Lord of the Rings world because we already have the film that is as true to the story as it
707
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:03,680
possibly can be because anything else has to be a take any other Superman movie aside from the
708
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:08,160
Richard Donner which even though it wasn't the first attempt to put Superman on screen it is the
709
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:13,840
definitive attempt because that's when they had the technology to be true to the story but any other
710
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:22,080
version of it is going to be a take on Superman and you can't do a take on the thing that started the
711
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:28,800
genre I just feels like you can do a take on Batman because Batman is a specific character and there
712
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:33,680
are so many different angles you can view that story on and if you want to do a take on Superman
713
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:41,360
you do it like the boys where you are doing a take on the genre instead of a take on that character
714
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:49,280
I just think that Superman is too much an archetype that you can't make a movie about it anymore because
715
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:55,600
it can't be a take but you can't do a definitive version because we already have that we already
716
01:05:55,600 --> 01:06:03,760
have the true to the story version of the character and the only reason to ever make a Superman stand
717
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:10,960
along movie is if you are going to go and open up the universe into the Justice League and even then
718
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:18,560
Vanisteele and Wonder Woman are the only two DC you movies that I've seen and Manisteele I was
719
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:24,480
really just disappointed by because it felt like too much of a take even there what if they just came
720
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:31,760
out with a Justice League movie hold brand new cast not part of the Snyderverse but you just had
721
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:40,240
the characters come into this story when Marvel decided to launch Spider-Man they decided to go
722
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:46,080
against his origin story because we had seen it because we've already seen it a billion times
723
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:53,120
if we approach something like Superman where we know his origin we know what happened to him we don't
724
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:59,120
need to see this again what if you could create instead of making a stand alone Superman movie you
725
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:05,200
could create a Justice League movie from scratch knowing these characters origins and then from
726
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:13,840
there you could branch off and make individual stories not necessarily a origin story but now a
727
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:20,480
stand alone movie where Superman is needed and I feel like that could work much better than trying to
728
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:27,920
reboot the Superman we already know I think that is like the way to do it is make him a character in a
729
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:34,160
Justice League movie make him a character in somebody else's story but I don't know if we can get
730
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:40,400
his story in a way that works like I think it's Superman as a character in somebody else's journey.
731
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:46,720
So one thing that I want to do before we sign off and this is going to be the end of season one
732
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:54,720
we're gonna take a little break because for me doing research for the show takes a lot to do and
733
01:07:54,720 --> 01:08:00,880
I mean you guys listen to the show you understand and we are also wrapping up the weird alphabet
734
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:06,480
and we're trying to figure out what that is going to mean for us so I kind of want to focus more on
735
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:12,400
that in between there but in the meantime like you guys can still send us emails of what you would
736
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:19,200
like to see in like season two we will be back we will be uh yeah but the thing that I wanted to bring up
737
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:28,480
was that part of the reason why I did this podcast and took on the subject of movies I didn't get made
738
01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:34,160
again we had so many discussions before about films I didn't get made but the thing that really sent
739
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:40,240
me in that projection has to be John Snap but he was the director of the death of Superman lives what
740
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:49,040
happened and I got to see a premiere of that documentary while we were at what was called Comic-Cosy which
741
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:55,840
is now known as LA Comic Con we actually got an interview with John Snap and if you're unaware he
742
01:08:55,840 --> 01:09:02,880
unfortunately passed away in 2018 uh which was just heartbreaking to know that and for the last thing
743
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:10,000
that I want to include is the interview that we had conducted with John Snap this is with you and
744
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:16,400
Michael correct yeah because I don't think I was there that day for this and we are rolling here
745
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:25,360
it's John Snap right and Holly pain like Holly pain okay all right today we are here with John
746
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:32,160
Snap and Holly Pain aka the producer of the death of Superman lives the documentary about how an
747
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:38,400
amazing movie never happened so how are you two doing today? Tune well it's the last day of Stan
748
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:43,600
Lee's LA Comic Con and we're tired ready to go home but we've had a good time. I bought a lot of cool
749
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:49,440
stuff I'm definitely in the tired zone myself we're in the last hour the last home stretch we've been
750
01:09:49,440 --> 01:09:53,840
celebrating having our movie available now for a little over a year and a half we're really proud
751
01:09:53,840 --> 01:10:01,200
of it we've actually moved on and like sold a series to Comic Con HQ a brand new SVOD that our series
752
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:05,600
will be on towards the middle of next year so you know we're excited about that May like kind of
753
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:11,760
expanding that whole role of shows about what happened to different movies that didn't get me.
754
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:15,680
What kind of spurred the idea to get the death of Superman lives like documented?
755
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:20,720
I'll let John answer that first because he was fascinated by the subject matter for quite some time
756
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:27,120
so it was really his brainchild he was you know fixated on the concept of the Superman movie that
757
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:31,200
that never saw the light of day and had been collecting art but I'll let him finish that part of
758
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:35,360
the story. You know obviously we'd all heard and read about the Tim Burton Superman movie Nick Cage
759
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:39,120
was going to be Superman then you know years passed or like what happened to that and then some of
760
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:44,160
the concept art came online and that's what kind of got me interested in it was like it reminded me
761
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:50,640
of a heavy metal science fiction movie and the idea of Tim Burton after him doing the Mars attacks film
762
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:56,080
right before he went into sleepy hollow and then a bunch of other films like it felt like wow I felt
763
01:10:56,080 --> 01:11:01,280
like that could have been something really fun and after Superman returns came out I felt like wow
764
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:05,920
I really wanted to see something that wasn't Richard Donner asked so it made my interest in some of
765
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:11,440
the previous versions like JJ Abrams and Tim Burns I just started to investigate that a little more
766
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:17,680
and my interest got peaked by more artwork that slowly came online I saw the Steve Johnson kind of light
767
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:22,000
up suits and so I just kind of was like talking about it some people are like you should make a
768
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:26,240
documentary about it and I was like I don't really do that kind of stuff but the idea of it was
769
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:31,200
to let's do a Kickstarter so that's what we did. Yeah speaking of the Kickstarter how did that go I
770
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:35,840
mean I heard that you had to do two different crowdfunding campaigns. Right we started with Kickstarter
771
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:40,560
and then actually midway through making the film we ran out of money so we had to do another second
772
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:45,120
crowdfunding campaign. We the second crowdfunding campaign with the company called Fanbacks both
773
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:49,760
of those crowdfunding campaigns gave us the majority of the funds to make the film and then we had
774
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:55,040
a private investor later towards the end just for finishing funds but really it was this is definitely
775
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:59,760
a fan-made film and that's what's so satisfying about it is that everybody sort of has a piece of it
776
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:05,280
because they helped make it happen and and what was great was to see the response of people who
777
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:10,640
had known about the project and wondered where curious as John was about why it didn't get made and
778
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,640
then there were also new people who had never heard of it before and were curious so it kind of
779
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:20,640
covered all bases but actually when we flew out to London to interview Tim Burton we were flat broke
780
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:26,640
that was like in between somewhere in the middle and we were we were kind of flying on a prayer
781
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:30,720
hoping we would get an interview with Tim Burton and we did and then that of course that's when
782
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:36,480
some of the the other doors started unlocked for us. Having never done a documentary in full I'd
783
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:41,360
cut a documentary a few years before that but really primarily I'd been directing cartoon shows
784
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:46,560
for about at that point in time like 12 years so that was where you know the bread and butter was
785
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:51,360
and that was like my prime focus doing some short films on the side but doing a documentary is
786
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:57,840
a different beast and it requires not hiring people but getting people's permission to interview them
787
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:03,600
which is kind of taxing on a different level and a different front in a way that none of us were
788
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:08,720
really prepared for so a lot of time and effort and energy went into that first year and a half
789
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:13,680
where it took a lot longer to actually make than I ever thought it would. I would say honestly that
790
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:18,320
was probably the most time consuming thing was actually getting everybody getting the interviews
791
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:23,520
locked in and then really what happened was in the editing room we started piece the story together
792
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:29,120
and it was amazing how well everything sort of dovetail because we're realizing the story as it was
793
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:34,320
happening we didn't know what what the story was so but by the end of it once we got John Peters we
794
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:39,760
were able to sort of tie everything together and it just it came off to be more than we ever hoped for
795
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:44,640
everything. I mean Tim Burton was definitely like I like to refer to him in a fun way as the
796
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:50,720
Pokemon ball because when we got him he unlocked literally all the other artists and the people who
797
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:54,800
were kind of tenetive or hesitant to talk to us because they were unsure like look have you talked
798
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:59,040
to Tim about this and up until the point when we got before we got him we were like well not yet and
799
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:05,440
they usually were like well let's wait and see once Tim kind of gave the blessing of hey look
800
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:10,640
here's the like opening the doors to the floodgate of the concept art the footage with Nick Cage
801
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:15,760
and himself all these things really helped add to that presence and also the seriousness of our
802
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,680
take on the subject matter I think a lot of people are unsure of where we were coming from and then
803
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:24,960
hey look Tim feels very positive and confident with it that makes me feel good about talking about it
804
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:30,800
so and ultimately I think one of the best experiences of both Holly and I had was opening night
805
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:36,800
having so many of the people involved in the different aspects of the movie from concept design to
806
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:42,640
some of the suit design to the writers for all of them to be there at the actual opening and be
807
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:47,120
able to see and meet each other and talk to each other that was the one of the greatest things for us.
808
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:51,760
It was very much like a thesis I think for everybody involved in that project because
809
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:56,080
there was a lot of shame attached to Superman lives there was so many people who had worked on it that
810
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:03,840
had been sort of hiding their work because it was it was perceived as a big disaster and when we
811
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:08,000
got all the concept art and all the things that we the materials we got from Tim Burton and from
812
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:14,640
everyone else we saw totally different picture we saw something that was really really intriguing and
813
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:21,040
the artwork was gorgeous and there was so little shame attached to it that it was great to be able to
814
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:26,240
connect all these people and also for them to see what went on after they stopped their part of the
815
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project so at our opening night at our premiere they were just so it was so great to hear from all
816
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of those people and hear them say wow I knew my part but I didn't know all of this stuff existed
817
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and this could have been a really cool film you know it's like when you hear about the UFOs and
818
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:46,720
they've taken the parts apart and given it to different scientists like I worked on the anti-gravity
819
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:51,760
well I worked on the Teflon it's like it's that but in reality so it was like it was a lot of fun to
820
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:57,040
see that kind of come together and also I got to say with you know Holly and I saw that Tim Burton
821
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Nick Cage footage like a full like year and a half before anyone else on the planet Earth ever saw it
822
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so we knew how 45 minutes of that there's only seven minutes in the film but our jaws were on the
823
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floor the entire time we knew how special it was and so for us coming from like people like the
824
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other movie would have sucked we heard that so many times before our movie came out and we knew that
825
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the movie would have been something special so it was really such an uphill battle until the movie
826
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came out and then when the movie came out now we can tell when someone seen the movie because
827
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the people who've actually seen our documentary come up to us and say why I wish they made that
828
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:36,480
Superman Lizzie movie I would have liked to have seen that I knew and Holly knows that they've seen
829
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:40,240
our doc the people who haven't seen the doctor like man I'm moving what a sucker I'm like you haven't
830
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seen the doc it's amazing one of the other anecdotes I wanted to share was when we had our premiere we
831
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:51,440
had a three night premiere the third night Kevin Smith came and he did a Q&A with us after the screening
832
01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:56,320
but while he was watching the movie we John and I were sitting behind him watching him watch
833
01:16:56,320 --> 01:17:01,440
John Peters for the first time in many many years and just to be able to sort of
834
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:07,200
witness his shoulders going up and down and him laughing and at the same time just going he's still
835
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the same guy it was really kind of satisfying to experience Kevin's experience of the film and he's
836
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:18,560
been such a huge supporter of it and his role stopped once he was done with the script you know once
837
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:23,920
Tim hired another writer Kevin was off and that's that's the way it was for everybody who worked on
838
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:29,600
the film so to see them find the whole thing come together it was really really really cool for Kevin
839
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:34,560
to know that his script was what most of the artwork was based on even though they had other writers those
840
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:39,920
artists didn't have that script so they were basing a lot of the draft the skeleton the spine
841
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:46,560
of Superman lives always was the same storyline so from Kevin's script all the way through Dan
842
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:51,520
Gilroy's script with Wesley Stric in the middle the storyline was always the same story but the
843
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:57,440
dialogue and certain scenes changed fluidly throughout and you know the ultimately the final script I
844
01:17:57,440 --> 01:18:03,520
think was a shooting script to go so that's kind of the other the semi sad sweet part of it is like
845
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:09,120
man it would have been cool to see because that kind of creativity we haven't seen yet in a Superman
846
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:14,400
film I would volley like some of the aspects of man of steel and even like Batman V Superman we've
847
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:20,000
seen like little moments of all of these different previous versions from you know Superman lives all
848
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:26,400
the progress as are slowly made little bits and pieces get it made into that actual feature film
849
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:33,920
I wanted to dedicate not just this episode but the season to John because I really feel like without
850
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:41,840
that documentary the interests in unproduced unmade movies and the stories and the amount of in-depth
851
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:49,840
research going in behind it I don't think I would be making this unless it wasn't for his movie
852
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:56,320
I have a lot to to think for him and what he's done so I figured Superman lives it would be a great
853
01:18:56,320 --> 01:19:02,400
closer for this season absolutely thank you everybody for listening and thank you everybody for
854
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:10,080
the support and I am really really excited to see where this show continues in the future this has
855
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:16,160
been an experience for me that it's been a really awesome experience to be able to practice different
856
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:23,840
skills in podcasting and researching and be able to learn a lot about not just about the process of
857
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:30,320
movie making but the process of making a show like this and I have been really happy about the
858
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:35,760
amount of kind words I've gotten from friends who start listening as well and people who are
859
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:41,440
very interested in this subject and find our way of approaching it super interesting as well so
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01:19:41,440 --> 01:19:46,960
thank you everybody so much and thank you Dan for all of the hard work if people don't know Dan is the
861
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:52,160
one who does all of the work on this show he's doing the editing he's doing the research for most
862
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:58,560
of the stories this show exists because of Dan's hard work I'm very appreciative of yes you David
863
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:06,480
and for being here along this journey and to all the listeners the followers anyone who wishes to
864
01:20:06,480 --> 01:20:13,120
see this show succeed and I feel like we have a lot more and a much brighter future ahead of us
865
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:20,640
absolutely yeah if you want to send us any emails about any movies that you want us to cover
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01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:25,760
or have any corrections because we will make mistakes I know we do you can send that to
867
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:34,160
not get made at gmail.com we are on instagram at how did this not get made and we are on twitter at
868
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:46,960
hdt and gm yes what David said you can check us out there but yeah that'll be it for season one
869
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:52,080
I would really love if we get a good amount of emails to do like a hiatus emails episode
870
01:20:52,080 --> 01:21:00,880
oh I can do that that would be fun yeah yeah for our feed we might post some things here and there
871
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:06,080
we might be doing some interviews with other podcasts as well and just kind of talking to them in the
872
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:12,960
meantime but yes they subscribed and you'll get our first episode of season two when we figure that out
873
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:19,040
thanks again everybody for listening thank you