WEBVTT
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.719
When I ran my most recent ultra marathon, I had to take a trail dumpy.
00:00:04.959 --> 00:00:10.560
And it made me think about all the miles that you're riding on these bicycles to crowd the world right now.
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:12.400
Like, what is the trail dumpy like for you?
00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:17.440
Like, do you have to be strategic and find the right tree and pick up a bunch of rocks while you're running into the woods?
00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.399
Or are you a little bit more process oriented about it?
00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:24.640
To be honest, uh there's not very many of those.
00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:33.520
Like I feel like I just burn through stuff so much that uh I can only think of like a one I can't count on one hand how many times I've had to like take a trail dump.
00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:41.759
And uh yeah, at the end of the day, it definitely feels something in the mornings, but uh yeah, normally it depends on where you're at too.
00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:47.200
Like if it's like if I was in Kurzakstan, like the ground is like so hard there, there's no trees around.
00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:54.960
So you have to like either be okay with seeing somebody like watching you take a dump or just like hold it in.
00:00:55.119 --> 00:01:00.240
But uh yeah, you had to dig up like a spot in the ground and like usually just throw it in the ground.
00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:05.439
But uh yeah, there's not very too there's not too many of them out there.
00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:13.120
Do you have to like I remember I can't remember the name of the product that I bought, but I got my brother-in-law, who's a big gravel rider as well.
00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:18.400
I bought him kind of like a bag of like uh butt wipes essentially, and it was some fun, you know, goût day named thing.
00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:20.959
I mean, do you carry a bunch of that stuff or like dude wipes or something?
00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:21.599
You know what I mean?
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:24.560
Yeah, I carry a lot of like personal hygiene stuff.
00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:35.599
Like that's uh yeah, that's one thing I take very serious when you do those things, is like if you let something fester, it's gonna, it can cause you to like have to stop your ride.
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:47.120
And uh dude wipes, like chamois cream, uh just chafing cream, uh, yeah, there's a bunch of different stuff that I take, but uh dude wipes are good.
00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:51.599
Any type of like just like wet wipes, but uh just something to keep clean.
00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:53.519
And then how does that change, right?
00:01:53.599 --> 00:02:06.560
So some of the the the big bike packing events that you've gone on that are multi-days versus the you know, the bike packing events where you might be out there for a couple days, or excuse me, like one day, but you probably aren't gonna get any sleep.
00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:07.519
You might get a quick nap.
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:13.439
Like, how does that evolve of what you bring with you and prepare for that on the hygiene thing that you mentioned?
00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:15.840
The hygiene thing sort of stays the same.
00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:19.120
Like it never it never really changes.
00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:28.479
Uh yeah, I will try to like not use this chamois cream and stuff as much as possible just to have that as a last like resort.
00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:32.639
But uh every night when I'm done, I'll like put restorative cream on.
00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:40.479
Just like in your nether regions and just try to like get the stuff that's like a little weird, trying to get it healed overnight.
00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:41.680
And the stuff does really good.
00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:44.800
It's like some some type of product from France.
00:02:44.879 --> 00:03:05.439
I can't remember the name of it, but uh, yeah, it's worked for me, and I've never I mean, knock on wood, like I can think of like two or three saddle sores I've had, but uh I've also had like pretty good bike fits done, and like I sort of know when something like that's popping up, so I try to get it before before it gets into anything like too dire.
00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:14.159
And then, but so like for a 30-hour race versus maybe like you know, a 2,000-mile ride, right?
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:17.039
Which might be a race, but in the long run, if you finish, you won, right?
00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:17.919
You did the thing.
00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:20.159
How does one resupply all that stuff, right?
00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:22.000
You're keeping these hygiene things with you.
00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:24.319
Are you mailing things to a certain spot?
00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:28.560
Like, is it an organizate because a lot of these I've noticed that you do are unsupported.
00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:34.879
No, that's like one thing that's the biggest difference between like the running ultras and the cycling ultras.
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:37.280
There is no outside support.
00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:42.319
Like you can't mail yourself anything to like a Dropbox or whatever beforehand.
00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:48.479
You can't like book an Airbnb before the race starts, or book a hotel before the race starts.
00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:52.159
Like it's all like what you take with you is like what you have.
00:03:52.400 --> 00:04:04.960
And you can buy stuff from the general public stores or like stuff that's open to generally anybody, but you can't just go knock on somebody's door or like say, like, hey, can I use your get some wet wipes or get like take a shower or like water or whatever?
00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:12.879
Like that's highly frowned upon and uh yeah, it's unique, and that's part of the reason why I like it because you are like truly on your own.
00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.039
Like you can't get anything from other racers.
00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:22.079
Uh yeah, it's once the once you start the race, like you are on your own.
00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:27.680
But like as far as like resupplying stuff goes, like that just depends on the route.
00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:46.959
Like, I'm pretty big into like just trying to dive deep into like what the route actually is and where you can get stuff, and yeah, you sort of just know, like, alright, I have 80 miles to like this store, so roughly how much can I do I need to like get me through that 80 miles?
00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:58.079
And then you start looking at the store hours and see if like, okay, well, if it's 80 miles, it might take me eight hours, or it might take me six hours, or it might take me 15 hours.
00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:07.920
So like you try to like I always keep 2,000 calories on me as an emergency, like no matter what, uh, and then just go off of there.
00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:16.480
But yeah, you sort of just look at the roof, know where you can get stuff at, and then just really just go from there.
00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:20.160
Like, there's not much you can do other you can overthink it and take way too much.
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.160
But uh yeah.
00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:29.439
Like for this past one I did, like for the one in Utah, I took way more sports nutrition on that than I normally ever would during a race.
00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:37.759
Uh like if I was doing say the one in Greece I did this year, I took like maybe 10 gels.
00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:44.319
And uh the one in Utah this past weekend, it was not even a quarter of that.
00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:55.439
And I took probably 20 gels, which I didn't eat all of them, but like 10, 11 sports, like tailwind sports mix for my bladder, my water bladder.
00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:04.079
Uh yeah, it just depends on like what the race is and like where you're gonna be at and what you're gonna get, and if you're in the States or not.
00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:07.120
The logistics part of it is what I hear in that, right?
00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:16.720
And that's from that ultra-marathon perspective, a little bit that I think I understand is that yes, you want to train, you want to be able to do the event, but you also don't want to overcarry because then it's on your person.
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:18.879
You have to actually carry it from place to place.
00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:28.720
But if you don't plan and have your logistics, like your nutrition and the way you're gonna hydrate and when you need to potentially take electrolytes and all those kinds of things planned out, that's also where a lot of people fail.
00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:39.439
And so, what did it take for you to learn to kind of like begin to prepare prepare for these multi-day events in that you said the 2,000 calorie emergency, but as well within that, like where are you getting water?
00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:40.319
Do you have filters?
00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:43.040
Like, what is that, how does that all break down for you?
00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:50.399
Uh yeah, just it's continually evolved because I failed a lot doing it.
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:56.399
Like I know, like I have a cycling coach and like she always like preaches like to know yourself and know your body.
00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:09.360
And uh yeah, it's just like an experiment I've ran on myself over the past, I mean, pretty much all my life really, but like the past five, six, seven years, I've like been more in tune with it, I guess.
00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:17.199
Uh and the yeah, like I said, you just have to fail to like learn what your limits are, in a sense, before you can really know yourself.
00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:22.240
And I feel like I'm starting to like like I don't need to have everything planned out now.
00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:26.160
Like I sort of know what my body needs and like what my body can get by on.
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.759
And uh yeah, it's just been a continual evolution.
00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:34.639
And uh like now I don't need to know how much calories I'm gonna take or like whatever.
00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:40.720
I can just go by what I've what I'm feeling in the moment, and uh yeah, it's just been a continual evolution.
00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.000
When I first started doing it, like I had no fucking clue.
00:07:44.160 --> 00:08:10.000
Uh like I was just like so delusional that I just like I'm going for a bike ride, it's just gonna be a long bike ride, but uh yeah, I definitely get more nervous about it now than I did then, but uh it's also because I know like what the possi what possible risks are out there, and uh like when I first started, I had no like idea, but uh yeah, yeah, not much else to say about that.
00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:12.240
Yeah, no, that's cool.
00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:29.920
When you did the Tour Divide 2025 last year, that to me seemed like a turning point for you because I watched you get on the bike, I watched you start to ride, I watched you try to find your yourself within the way that you rode a bicycle, what you were doing that for.
00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:36.080
When you finished the tour divide and you made a post about it, there was something that you said in that caption that said, training is a myth.
00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:38.559
Being a conqueror of your mind is not.
00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:41.919
And honestly, I wanted to know like by the end of that, like what does that mean to you?
00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:46.799
I mean, going into that, I like I was off the bike for a month and a half.
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:48.720
Like I had no training going into it.
00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:59.840
So I had like this crazy like vertigo symptoms going on where I couldn't even like get to the bathroom without somebody helping me, like walk down the hall for like a month and a half before.
00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:04.320
And it wasn't if I didn't buy a non-refundable plane ticket, I would not have gone.
00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:13.279
But uh I sort of knew I knew my tendencies, well, I might want to back out of this, so I just like just bought the non-refundable and uh yeah, glad I did.
00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:18.799
I think I didn't even I don't even think I rode before leaving to go to Canada.
00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:28.559
And like my first like ride back was like in Canada, like two or three days before, and did like an hour or two, and I was like, okay, like I can turn my head, and like that was the biggest thing.
00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:32.559
I just want to make sure I can like look over my shoulder, like to see if something was coming.
00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:36.559
And uh yeah, for a month before that, I couldn't even walk outside and do that.
00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:44.320
So I had no clue like what my fitness levels were gonna be, or like I honestly didn't think I was gonna make it through it.
00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:53.279
So I had just just taken every day as it as it was, and uh it's weird by the end of it, I've never felt better after an ultra.
00:09:53.519 --> 00:10:14.879
Like I didn't have any pains or niggles, like I felt in better shape than I did obviously go into it, but uh yeah, that doesn't mean it wasn't easy, but uh I just feel like uh that one like it made me learn a lot about the loopholes I get into my head, about the negative spirals and like how to like sort of stop them in a way.
00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:19.120
I'm not the best at stopping them, but I'm like good at being aware of it now.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:28.080
And uh yeah, that was uh I feel like in a month I aged 10 years mentally on that trip.
00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:35.600
And that was uh yeah, I was alone the pretty much the entire time, which is it was more soothing than I thought it was gonna be.
00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:39.440
I was pretty stressed out that I should be on alone for like that amount of time going into it.
00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:47.279
But uh remember telling somebody after the fact I was like, man, I don't mind if it was if I was a little bit more alone, you know.
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:49.600
I didn't mind it one bit.
00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:57.759
And uh yeah, I think at that time of my life it was just something I needed, and uh yeah, I definitely do feel like a different person after that.
00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:06.960
Like I don't I obviously am the same person, but there is a lot of stuff that I look back on, I'm like, man, like it's just not who I am now, you know.
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:13.919
But it was uh yeah, that was I've always liked the movie Forrest Gump, and I always love the scene like where he runs across the country.
00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:38.240
And uh I remember posting something about it on Facebook and like one of my friends from like middle school and high school comment on, she's like, Oh, like she you finally did it, like you did the force gump, like but your version of it, and I was like, Well, I didn't even think about it like that, but yeah, I sort of always like thought about traversing a country would be cool, but I didn't think it was gonna be as I knew it was gonna be visually cool, but I didn't think it was gonna be cool like in the sense of like learning more about myself.
00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:39.279
Yeah.
00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:41.679
Why the tour divide, right?
00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:46.240
Like, talk to me a little bit of like I know it starts up in Canada, it ends down in New Mexico, right?
00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:47.279
That's a lot of miles.
00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:48.159
How many miles is it?
00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:49.360
How many days did it take you?
00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:52.159
And then after that, like, why did you do it?
00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:57.600
Why was the Tour Divide the thing that you bought a non-refundable plane ticket to go do?
00:11:58.240 --> 00:11:59.600
Well, I guess I'll start with that.
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:17.279
Like, I broke my femur a few years ago and uh was just laying on the couch, like watching YouTube and came across a video of the Tour Divide, and I'm like, well, like I was pretty overriding dirt bikes at the time, and I was like looking at that, I'm like, man, I could do that, and like I want to do that, but it also like really scared me at the time.
00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:28.399
And uh yeah, that was like what sort of sparked like all of that was like breaking my leg and like seeing that on YouTube and was like, okay, like I feel like I could do something like that.
00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:48.639
And I think it was a few months later I did like my first trip from my parents' house, like I could barely even like walk still, and I like rode from like my parents like somewhere in North Carolina to watch my brother race, and uh this is pretty fun, but uh but I always use it as like a stepping stone to like get to the tour divide or like whatever.
00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:54.000
But uh yeah, that one like it just I love that part of the country.
00:12:54.240 --> 00:13:01.440
Like I would love to live out like in that part of the country someday in my life, but uh that was like one of the key points.
00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:03.600
I was like, okay, that's cool.
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:14.159
Uh but also is like in like bikepacking, ultra cycling, tour divide is like widely considered like the one, I guess.
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:22.080
Uh it would be like like if somebody won the tour divide, it's like winning a super cross championship or winning a GNCC championship.
00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:27.519
It's like that is like what everybody looks to every year is like the standard.
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:42.000
And uh yeah, like I didn't race it, I did a time trial on it by myself, but uh in a lot of ways I thought that was a lot more fun um just being out there by myself.
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:50.240
But after doing more of the races this year, I'm like the one thing I do love about doing this is the community and like the the people you're around.
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:57.440
Like I've always felt like an oddball, but uh it's the first group of people I've been around, like, oh like you're a little bit more oddball than me.
00:13:57.519 --> 00:13:59.120
Like I like get you, you know?
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:01.279
So you're my people.
00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:02.639
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:04.559
Yeah, like it's cool to be around that.
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:08.720
But uh Yeah, what was the first two questions you had?
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.039
Like you were talking just telling us about like why the tour, but like break it like when you start, where did you start in Canada?
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:16.240
How many days did it take you?
00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:17.440
How many miles was the trip?
00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:18.480
All that kinds of fun stuff.
00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:24.480
If you're enjoying this episode, please send it to a friend or someone that you think might enjoy this episode.
00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:26.240
I really appreciate you tuning in.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.639
So yeah, the tour divide starts in Banff.
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:30.240
Uh Banf, yeah.
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:34.559
So I think there's like 200, 300 miles in Canada.
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.960
It's 2700 miles in like length.
00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:44.399
It varies every year with like fire diversions and like snow diversions if they even have diversions.
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:52.240
Uh but mostly fire diversions in the past few years have been one of the sticking points for the route.
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.480
But uh yeah, I pretty much hit all of like the Tour Divide route.
00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:01.200
I did some of like the Great Divide route, which is just like the American, what is it?
00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.039
American Cycling Association.
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:07.200
Like they have a published route, and like that's like what people tour down all the time.
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:30.799
And uh you also have the Tour Divide route, which is more of a race-oriented where they do some like a little bit gnarlier sections and stuff, but uh yeah, I'd say like 90% of it I was on the Tour Divide route, and then there's there was one diversion I had to do in Wyoming because uh they had closed the road because a grizzly was eating on a carcass of something.
00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:34.879
You know, like yeah, it's probably not the way that I want to go.
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:46.080
So I just like took the other route down like the road, but uh, and in some people on uh UTV like ask you, like, what are you doing out here by yourself because of bears or something like that?
00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:47.440
Multiple.
00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:48.879
Multiple.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:55.120
Like I doesn't I talked a big game about the grizzlies and stuff before going up there, and uh Yeah, you did.
00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:58.879
I was I was kind of like being serious about it.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:15.600
Like I've been outside, I've been outdoors all my life, but uh Yeah, once you start talking to people, and then you go to the the uh outdoor store in Banff and they have two different options of bear sprays you can buy, you start talking to them about it, and they're like, Yeah, like you'd let them get so close before you can spray them.
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:19.360
And I'm like, okay, like still wasn't really too bothersome.
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:26.240
And then uh the first day, like I had lost my bear spray.
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:36.320
And uh I was just like in prime grizzly territory, and uh yeah, that was when I was like, okay, like this is a little I don't like this feeling.
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.279
So I was able to pick one up like as soon as possible the next day.
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:51.279
But then you start getting out late at night in like these ranches in Montana and stuff, and uh like when the sun's going down, the farmers are up there like just watching the sunset and their UTVs or whatever, and they're like, What are you doing up here?
00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:52.960
Just just riding.
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:54.960
And they're like, by yourself?
00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:00.559
I'm like, yeah, like I don't didn't think anything of it, and like they're like, That's they're like, that's not a good idea.
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:28.319
And I'm like, oh, like once two or three of those like instances happened, I was like, okay, this is like I stopped wanting to sleep outside, and I was like primarily just trying to shelter inside wherever possible, and uh yeah, they are definitely apex predators because there was one night I stopped in like a a snowmobile warming hut, which is like at the top of this mountain, and uh they have these huts for snowmobile people who just if they need to take shelter, you can get in.
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:35.200
And uh I stayed in there and I put all my food in like the outhouse outside, like a concrete like stone outhouse.
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:43.359
And I put like a it probably weighed 25, 30 pound rock up next to the door to like keep it shut.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:59.759
And the next morning I woke up, there was obvious signs that the rock had been moved and like my food had been ate, and like you look in the road, and like there's a bear print like twice as big as my hand, so I'm like, well, they're here, but uh yeah.
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:15.680
And also the Johnson brothers, they also got me worked up too, because they go hunting in the area that you ride through, and they were showing me videos of some of the bears like out there out there, and that's the exact same spot that that like instance with the bear in the in the outhouse happened at.
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:21.119
So I was like, oh luckily there's only like one or two days after that of and then you were out of bear country.
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:26.559
But yeah, I think as far as how long it took me, I think it was like 26 days, 27 days.
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:35.839
Like I wasn't like necessarily like racing per se, because like going into it, I had no idea if I was gonna even make it out of Canada.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:42.000
Like I thought I was gonna like uh get 100 miles in and have uh somebody come and get me to take me back to Calgary to go fly out.
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:46.160
But uh yeah, I progressively got better as it went on.
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:53.680
And uh yeah, I knew going into it it wasn't gonna be like going into it, I wanted to do it as fast as I possibly could.
00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:58.480
And then the illness happened and I couldn't like I knew that was out the window.
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:08.880
But uh so I just turned it into just doing what I could do and like seeing where I ended up and yeah, like I think it was like twenty-seven days maybe.
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:09.839
I can't remember.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:13.759
I honestly don't even think about the days and like or how many miles it is.
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:19.200
I just think about like the stuff I've seen and like the experiences like that you have out there.
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:32.960
Like it's the mileage and the time doesn't really with finishing the tour divide in 25 and then going to uh hell Hellenic, I'm probably saying it wrong, to sell it you needed down in 2026, like what happened, right?
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:42.799
Like you get to a point where you decide in 2025 you're gonna do the tour, and it was kind of this big thing, but then you chose three big things, you know, for 2026.
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:49.279
So what kind of happened after Tour Divide to where you said I need to keep going for this?
00:19:50.720 --> 00:20:00.880
I mean, I I think that anybody that's close to me can like attest to like how much of a better person it makes me after the fact when I do those things.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:08.720
Uh yeah, and I just wanted to give myself as as many possibilities as I could to do those things this year.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:13.759
Uh yeah, I stopped shooting the National Enduros for work.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:20.640
Uh, and I was like, okay, if I could do that, I'm gonna pretty much go all in on like stuff I wanted to do this year.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:27.279
And yeah, with work, it is hard to like schedule around like races because like I am tied to GNCC.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.039
Like I want to be at GNCC, like I'm not giving that up.
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:34.880
So like there's only so many races I can do or like events I can do.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:49.119
And uh yeah, originally I chose Hurricane in Florida, which was in February, Hellenic in May in Greece, and then Silk Road in August in Kurzakstan.
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:54.480
And yeah, it's just like with life thing, it's just get messed up and like don't go as planned.
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:58.160
So like that's where the one in Utah came in to play.
00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:07.519
Like Silk didn't go my way, so I was like, I really needed like just to feel some sense of accomplishment and to feel better about things really.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:14.079
So that's like I didn't sign up for that race until like six days, seven days before.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:20.319
Like I didn't even I had like flight credit for a flight that didn't work out, and I was like, okay, I'll just change it to this.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:25.759
And so I just changed it to that and had no plan really, but uh yeah.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:28.240
The one in Florida didn't go my way.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:31.759
I had like a mechanical that was ultimately my fault.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:42.640
Like I ran through some vines and just didn't stop and just power shifted through stuff, and eventually my uh one of my bolts from a derailer came out, and so I just hadn't didn't have a bolt to fix it.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:49.759
I turned it into a single speed, but uh at that point I was like, fuck, I don't want to like really ride a single speed all the way around Florida.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:22:04.559
But uh Yeah, then that switched into Hellenic in May, which was that was probably the hardest like physical one I've ever Done just as far as like the way my body felt afterwards.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.759
Uh yeah, I felt beat up.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.119
There's a lot of hiking.
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:13.359
It was like I think it's like 570 miles or something like that.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:16.400
But there was like 91,000 feet of climbing.
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:24.720
So like you're doing Everest three times uh in a short amount of time compared to like some of the other races and rides I've done.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:26.960
Uh yeah.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:34.319
If that was 570 miles, I probably walked like a walk 70 miles at least of that.
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:37.039
At least it feels like probably less than that.
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:53.519
But uh in my mind, like it was nice to be able to ride at times because I was like walking that much, but uh just from how steep stuff is and then how rough it was, but uh that was like my first like mountain race.
00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:05.599
So like in the States you have Tour Divide, and then globally, like the mountain race series is probably like the other greatest or well-known series they have.
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:12.319
They have four races, one in Morocco, one in Greece, one in Kurzakstan, and one in Turkey.
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:18.160
And uh yeah, the one in Greece and Kurzakstan just line up perfect for the schedule, so I was like, Yeah, let's do those.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:25.759
And uh looking back in hindsight, maybe the one from going from Greece to Kurzakstan was too much.
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:30.960
I was pretty smoked afterwards and didn't really give myself any downtime.
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:37.759
Uh went straight into like doing another training camp in Colorado, uh elevation to get ready for Kurzakstan.
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:40.720
Uh had a lot of fun doing it too.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:44.319
But uh by the time I got to Kurzakstan, I was just smoked.
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:54.559
I was emotionally, mentally, and physically just smoked and uh sort of felt like that going into it, but uh I felt like it was a disservice not to try.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:59.440
So I was like, okay, like I've spent all this time and this money and effort putting into this.
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.880
I was like, okay, might as well just go and see how it goes.
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:08.319
But uh yeah, just very fatigued feeling, just didn't work out my way.
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:14.720
So I was like, there's no I started loathing being there and like loathing riding my bike, and I did not like that.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:23.279
Like I've if anything, the bike's given me like a lot more in my life than any other sport or like hobby has.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:40.160
So I didn't didn't want to ruin that and destroy my my love for it, which in hindsight, like yeah, it sucked like really bad to like pull out of that race because that's something that like that one sort of eyed and like that race are like equal in my mind.
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:45.359
Like that's uh definitely the hardest like place I've ever been to in my life.
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:56.400
Uh it is I've only did two days of it, so I have a very like small portion size, but it is as hard as everybody says it is, and it's as extreme as everybody says it is.
00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:06.000
And uh the best way I can describe it is like if you can ride a wobbly wheel all you want, but uh how long do you want to ride a wobbly wheel?
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:12.880
And I feel like I just didn't want to ride a wobbly wheel anymore, and uh which is weird, it's like the first time I've ever felt like that.
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:26.640
But yeah, get back home, and I'm like sitting around pretty m moping around basically, uh and did not want to wait another year to have to have some type of redemption, I guess.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:36.640
So like had a friend that was like, yeah, like you like I told him that I didn't feel like I had it in me to do more than one a year as far as ultras go.
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.079
And he like sort of pushed back on that, and I was like, Yeah, whatever.
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:41.200
Kind of annoyed me.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:47.839
But then I started looking around at races and I seen the one in Park City, and I was like, okay, like still want to do it.
00:25:48.799 --> 00:26:00.640
So I just like signed up and just like full in on it, and uh yeah, that one worked out my in my in my favor, but uh totally unexpected, didn't like expect that going into it.
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.680
Uh like I said, I just wanted like some sort of accomplishment.
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:23.200
I didn't want to I didn't want to walk around for the rest of the year with my tail tucked between my legs, and I know like I don't have to because like I put in like the effort and I know like what I've done to get to this point, but uh it also is nice to just have something like the hold your hat on at the end of the year if that makes sense.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:25.440
Yeah, no, it does.
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:28.000
Stopping isn't quitting.
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:33.519
That's one of the things that came up in the last episode that I did with Chase Ingram.
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:38.559
So if anybody's listening, that was a theme that we had, and that's something that I think is interesting that you said in there.
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.319
It's like you didn't want to keep riding the wobbly wheel.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:48.559
Like I think that that's an okay place to get to mentally and be like, okay, I need to stop.
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:50.160
You're not quitting, right?
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:51.599
Like life is gonna go on.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.839
You're gonna have another chance to ride a bicycle.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:05.039
So, like in this moment, though, I think that that's the hard part too, that we all juggle in this is that as athletes we see not continuing as quitting.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:14.400
But there's also a self-preservation that comes along, and there's such an interesting fine line there that we always have to walk, right?
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:18.079
Yeah, that because there could be a National Enduro that I would have gone and raced.
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.480
Ohio last year was a great one.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:30.720
There were multiple times as I was trying to drag my bike up some of those slick, disgusting uphills that I literally was like, I feel like a beginner right now.
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:35.200
And I don't want this feeling in my chest, I don't want this feeling in my head.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:38.319
But I said, but we're not quitting, right?
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:42.799
Like we started the race, I am still capable, so I'm gonna continue the race.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:48.799
But I think within yours, it's different because of the fact that what you said in the sense that like the wobble wheel, right?
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:54.319
You knew going in that you were in a, I say bad place, but just you were probably pretty worn out.
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:58.000
And so within that, you had some self-preservation in mind.
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:04.880
And so, as well, this not being an immediate competition, it makes sense that that in and of itself, that stopping is not quitting.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:06.720
It gives you a chance to kind of come back.
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:12.720
But I think it's interesting though, you said that you needed some kind of redemption.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:18.960
Why do you think that it keeps coming back to that even trying isn't enough?
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:24.160
Probably because I hold myself to like a pretty damn high standard within my in my head.
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:27.279
And uh yeah, I haven't really thought about that.
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:34.079
Um it is a very big outlet for me, and uh I have bad fear of missing out on stuff.
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:39.119
So like if there's an opportunity to do stuff, like I feel like I should be there and I should be taking full advantage of it.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.480
Uh and that's like sort of like what Utah was for me.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:46.079
It was like a a gift I didn't know I was getting.
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:46.960
You know?
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:53.440
And uh more so just and I hate this about myself, but like these things do make me feel better about myself.
00:28:53.680 --> 00:29:04.319
I would like to get to a point in my life where I don't need like to do some crazy type of event to make myself feel justified, but uh it makes me feel justified right now.
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:11.680
And honestly, like it gets a little bit of that competitiveness competitiveness in me that's out, get it out.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:21.119
And uh Yeah, I it's one of the first things in my life that I actually feel decent at too, so that's pretty cool to feel.
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:28.319
Um yeah, I don't do it for anybody else but me, but I almost do it for me too much sometimes.
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:40.400
And to much to the where the point like it becomes my identity and I need to like take a step back and say like okay, this is not the right thing, and like that's what Silk Road was for me at the time.
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:47.279
Like not saying it's not the right thing for me, but at that time like it wasn't the right thing for me.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:55.119
And uh yeah, I honestly feel like I learned more about myself from stopping that race than if I would have powered through.
00:29:55.279 --> 00:30:08.160
But I guess more of the like why I do it is like just to learn more about myself, like to know what my tendencies are and like what my strengths are, and uh not only the not only on the bike, but I feel like that just translated as a person.
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:16.079
Like I feel like it's made me understand like why I like taking photos so much and like why I like being creative and like why I do other things in my life.
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:22.319
But uh Yeah, it's just I use them as like a a self-help tool.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:28.640
Like that's basically like it's a it's a race and a it's an event, but it's more of a self-help thing for myself.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:30.799
It's like it's honestly therapy for me.
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:50.960
Like I very much like get wrapped up in my head in everyday life, and uh it's one of the few things that I can do that I don't get wrapped up in, and I can like process things correctly and not spiral out of control about stuff, and yeah, it gives me a sense of even though it is exhausting, it's very like mentally soothing for me.
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:52.400
Yeah, I love it, man.
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:53.680
Thank you for sharing that.
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:57.279
The therapy part is interesting because I found that as well.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:05.680
In 2023, we moved to Bonham, Texas, out in the middle of nowhere, and I was gonna train for a marathon and always wanted to do that, but life kept getting in the way.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:11.279
The reality is, is I just never made space for me to actually train enough to run to go try to do this marathon.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:13.039
And running the marathon was cool.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:14.880
I did it, I did it as like four and a half hours.
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.759
I wasn't trying to beat anybody, I just wanted to do the thing, right?
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:18.240
Yeah.
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.720
But what I found in that is the joy in the training, right?
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:31.119
In the being out there with my thoughts because I started listening to podcasts while I was running, but there was just too much noise.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:34.480
And so what I didn't, I was like, okay, well, what does that mean?
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:35.359
What do I need?
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:36.880
Okay, so I'm gonna do music.
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:44.480
And so there would be times that I would have music going, and I realized as I got more comfortable in my own skin, in my own head, out there running, right?
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:52.559
23, 24, 25, and down to 26, the music has either disappeared or it's gotten so low that it is 100% background noise.
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:59.839
And I think that that is that ability of us learning to get comfortable in our own skin and learning to be able to be comfortable with our own thoughts.
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:05.039
I think it's so like people like us, and I think people like us are everybody.
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:11.279
I I we're just the ones that have started to use these adventures as outlets.
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:31.119
It's really easy nowadays to get stuck in our own head, especially when we have so much from a societal pressure, right, that we've always had, but now you bring social media into the mix and you see this ability for everybody to lie to us, that they can tell us that their life is better than ours, that they have more money than us, that they have the cuter girlfriend or the cuter boyfriend or whatever that thing is.
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:38.480
And we always have this ability to feel behind somebody else or behind where we thought we would be when we looked back at our life.
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:51.839
And when we go on these, when we are able to live in our thoughts and be comfortable there, I think we're able to figure out that there's a base level of enjoyment in where we're actually at in life.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:33:08.079
And that all those things, the pressure, starts to kind of disappear because we realize that wait a minute, this moment, I'm happy right now, whatever that is, whether you're in the race, you know, in Greece, um, or if I'm on my my next run, whatever that is.
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:13.839
And then then I can learn to take that happiness and that moment, and that moment then becomes the week.
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:21.759
That moment becomes the month, that moment can become the entire year, because what I stopped doing is I stopped living in my head with everybody else's thoughts.
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:24.559
I and I learn to be very comfortable with mine.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:25.279
Yeah.
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:27.440
You and I have talked about this a lot.
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:40.079
And so within that, like, have you started to find any of those things for you that truly resonate where you're like on the tour, I know that when you came home, you changed a lot of your life.
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:41.599
Like, did that help?
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:42.559
Did it hurt?
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:49.680
Have you this year in 2026 have you started to feel things that you're like, I'm gonna remove a little bit of this, I need to add a little bit of this?
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:56.000
Like, what are you really starting to learn that you think a lot of us just don't listen to?
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:57.519
That's a good question.
00:33:57.839 --> 00:33:59.440
Uh let me think about that.
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:13.840
I think like learning about yourself is inherently scary because like you're learning about stuff that you don't really want to learn about, and uh I think just doing stuff like ultra cycling, anything ultra in general.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.719
Like ultra is like a such a broad word.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:23.199
Like I think that hikers are ultra endurance athletes, like they are like the epitome of it for me.
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.880
Like people who do the Appalachian Trail are out there for months at a time.
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:35.599
Like I was out there for a month, you know, they're out there for four or five, some of them, and uh just being in your head alone that long, I wonder what that would feel like.
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:48.639
But uh yeah, just from the time I have spent alone with myself, like it does raise uncomfortable questions about yourself, and I don't feel like a lot of people really want to go there, and I don't blame them.
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:53.760
Uh because I was one of those people that didn't want to go there for the longest time.
00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:28.880
And uh once you start learning a little bit more about yourself and why you operate the way you do, like it makes life a little bit more tolerable, like, or at least you understand like why you feel a certain way about things or like why you react a certain way to things, but uh yeah, it's not easy to like learn about yourself and uh I feel like when you're out there alone, like you have nobody else to rely on, so like you are like or at least for me, I'm digging deeper into my head than I can like just sitting around.
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:32.559
Like I can dig deep in my head all day long.
00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:36.800
But it's sometimes it's not like the most productive way.
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:49.039
And then when I'm riding, like doing races like that, it is like I'm sure there has to do with in your brain with like a bilateral movement and stuff like that, but uh yeah, it's very like I said, therapeutic for me.
00:35:49.119 --> 00:36:05.440
Like I can like think positively about stuff and like and then that seeps into my everyday life, and uh yeah, like you after I finish an ultra, I feel like I have a few months of time where I'm like in this state where nothing like really bothers me per se.
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:13.360
Like there is stuff that bothers me, but uh I'm able to like not ride it off, but like deal with it better.
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:28.800
Like you like on a bike race, you're always gonna have problems from day to day, like even from hour to hour, and uh you just gotta learn to like keep moving forward through it, and I feel like that's like the biggest thing it teaches me, like off the bike is just to keep moving forward and stuff.
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:30.639
But yeah.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:32.480
Yeah, I love that man.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:39.920
I heard in there, as I said what I said and processed it and heard your response, we don't give ourselves enough time.
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:42.079
It's always on to the next thing.
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:43.119
I still don't.
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:53.199
Like, that's one of my biggest downfalls is like I still like even sitting here, I'm like, like there's a race I can do in a little over a month, and I'm like, should I do it?
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:54.880
You know, like can I do it?
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:07.519
Like, or should I just like I don't know if that's like the ADHD in me that just wants to keep moving all the time and uh afraid to just sit with my thoughts on my own, but and also on the same same breath.
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:15.119
Like it is, like I said, uh it helps me process stuff a lot more and uh healthier way too.
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:25.440
Yeah, I got my journal sitting here, and uh sometimes they're notebooks where they're like legit notes, and sometimes they're journals where it's like literally like I have to brain dump some things.
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:34.320
And I've tried to find a way to get into journaling, and it it wasn't until I lost my job a couple weeks ago that I really leaned in heavily.
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:42.800
Like when I started, it really started with May when I started tapering off AlexaPro and all the weird feelings started coming up with the withdrawal symptoms.
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:47.840
I I'm up at one o'clock in the morning, I'm mentally done reading, right?
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.079
I I can't read anymore, but I can't fall asleep.
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:51.679
I was like, oh, I'll journal.
00:37:51.920 --> 00:38:00.559
And so I started journaling at those times, and now I've realized as as I've picked up from that, is that I carry kind of a notebook and I carry kind of a journal.
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:03.440
And they kind of have two different things so that way I can have the thought.
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.840
Like it'd be like, what rate should I go do in a month?
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:06.320
I don't know.
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:07.920
What rate should I go do in a month?
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:08.960
And it's out.
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:11.039
And that's I'm gonna come back to it.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:20.719
You know, either tonight, tomorrow, whatever that is, I'm gonna resurface that notebook and I'm gonna kind of reorganize all those notes again so that I can tackle them the next day or whenever whatever day they move need to move to.
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:32.880
And I think the journaling thing has really helped me in the evenings when I'm in that steward cycle of the anxieties keeping me awake and I can't just like come down right now because of this whole withdrawal thing that I'm going through.
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:40.639
And it's a real a really good place to remind myself of the windows and waves, like the windows of the high moments and the waves of the low moments.
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:45.599
And not only is that going to happen as I'm healing, uh, but it's also life.
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:49.679
Like life in and of itself has high moments and it has low moments.
00:38:49.840 --> 00:39:00.960
And yeah, as I I literally have a reel I'm gonna share later today, and it is about uh the fact that our path and the journey that we're on like isn't linear, right?
00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:06.079
Like we want to look back on it and see this like nice smooth line, but it's never gonna look like that.
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:08.719
There's gonna be those highs and there's gonna be those lows.
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:17.840
And within that, that when we can look back, be like, uh, or in the moment, it may feel like it's this like shitty super spot that's super long.
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:24.880
But two, three, four years after that, we can look back and realize, wow, I was on a journey, man, and it was a super windy path.
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.679
And you can kind of like take that with a little bit of security.
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:37.280
And I look back on again, 15 years of doing seat time, and I could beat myself up for some of the things I didn't do, but I'm also really proud of some of the things that I did do with that.
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:50.719
And I just think that like that is so interesting as we start to play with these concepts of once you start to get comfortable in your own skin and once to get comfortable with your own thoughts and you realize that like, wait a minute, I I want these for me.
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:52.800
And yeah, I don't want that for them.
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.440
Yeah, that's when we start to like really lean in.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:40:03.039
But to everything you said, I think that you should get yourself a little notebook, and anytime you have that thought and you're running around, write down a little bullet point.
00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:05.039
Pretty big at the end of the day.
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:06.559
Taking voice notes.
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:08.639
Like I uh oh, I love that, yeah.
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:09.280
Yeah.
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:20.559
I mean, I'm I've had a few ex-girlfriends that have got some pretty crazy like emotional voice notes, like just like about like what my thought processes are, like through stuff like that.
00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:32.320
But uh yeah, people close to me, like definitely, and I say people close to me, there's like three or four people that like actually know like what I'm going through in those times.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.960
Like how you just said like you want to like keep it for you.
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:37.280
That's one switch I've had over the past years.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:48.159
Like I did want to display it to more people in the past, but now I feel like I'm to a point where yeah, you can experience it with people, but they're only gonna experience it to some degree.
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:53.039
And uh I feel like even the people in the race, like they get it, but they don't actually get it.
00:40:53.199 --> 00:41:01.440
So like if I'm just happy with like dealing with it myself and like just keeping those thoughts to myself, like it's been more of a more freeing, I guess.
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:07.760
Like I don't feel like I need to share stuff with everybody, but also at the same time I uh I love sharing stuff.
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:10.719
Like that's why I love taking photos.
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:14.239
Like I love to like share stuff and uh yeah.
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:18.559
It is like a it's nice to have people to share it with for sure.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:24.000
But also you need to save some of it for yourself and like as you're not you're at the end of the day, you're the one out there doing it.
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:26.480
Like nobody else is gonna fully understand it.
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:32.559
And uh that's kind of been hard for me to get over the fact with some people.
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:35.280
Like I've tried to explain it to people and like they just don't get it.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:37.280
And uh I can't ask them to get it.
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.639
At the end of the day, to be honest, I don't really get it.
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:45.280
And uh I can't ask somebody to understand stuff like I don't understand.
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:53.519
And yeah, it is an experience for yourself, but I do like being able to give some of that back to others in whatever form that is.
00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:58.719
And I do like to I am pretty big about like writing like stuff on my laptop too.
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:09.519
Like even like coming back from uh Utah, like I I got to the airport like four or five hours early and I just started riding for like three hours before I even realized that I was like almost time to board.
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:25.519
And yeah, my brain is just like a like can always like spinning with stuff and it's hard to like get like one singular thing out, but uh yeah, like the ultras definitely focus it down on like a few things that like make me feel like I need to get off my chest per se.
00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:38.159
I will say that we probably went pretty deep and I'm okay with that, but in the long run, what was probably one of the most humorous things that happened with some of the other riders on some of the journeys you've been on this year?
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:38.800
Okay.
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:45.679
So Silk Road is like notorious for like food poisoning and uh oh.
00:42:46.079 --> 00:43:00.480
I don't I don't I don't yeah, I mean I I had it, like I had a pizza like a couple days before the race, and then like that like sparked like just diarrhea for the next like two and a half weeks of the time I was there, just like randomly.
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:12.880
But uh I definitely didn't have it as bad as some because we started the race and like we're in a peloton of like 250 people, and like we're going up like the climb the first climb, which is like 30 miles long.
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:16.719
So like the longest climb of the r of a race I've ever done in my life.
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:31.360
And uh we're like four miles in, and this guy just like starts off to the side of the road and like drops his bike and like sprints into the field, and before he can even get like his bivs down, he's just like projectile shitting across the field.
00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:38.000
And at that moment, I was like, I was like, oh like people have it way worse than me right now.
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:39.440
Way worse.
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:44.639
But uh yeah, there's there's a lot of funny moments out there.
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:51.599
Like it's you have to laugh at a lot of the stuff because it is just fucking I am very normalized to it now.
00:43:51.760 --> 00:44:05.679
Like I don't really think of like it being anything crazy, but uh at the end of the day, it is like pretty fucking crazy some of the stuff that we're doing, and uh like I've I've probably seen more grown men cry this year than I've ever seen in my entire life before.
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:10.079
Like it's not really funny, but it's like just the reality of the situation.
00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:13.280
Like it's uh Yeah, we do a lot of stupid stuff.
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:15.280
And it's just stuff you wouldn't normally do.
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:21.280
Like just I think back to like there's some places in Greece that we were walking like these ridgelines.
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:25.280
And there was one night that we just had this crazy thunderstorm.
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.639
And uh I do not like thunderstorms.
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:32.880
And I remember we get doing the top of this, like this climb, and it took us like three hours to walk up.
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:36.079
And uh there was a guy at the top, and he's like he knew my name.
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:38.639
He's like sort of like sniffling, say, Mac, I'm scared.
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:41.119
I'm like, dude, fuck yeah, I am too right now.
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:42.400
Like it was like, yeah.
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:43.519
Hug it out, bro.
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:44.239
Hug it out.
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:48.800
Yeah, well, we had to like just keep going, but uh yeah.
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:53.920
The one guy with diarrhea at Curse's name was like pretty crazy, like whoa.
00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:57.360
Like we're like in a totally different part of the world.
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.320
Like that's the furthest I've ever traveled away from home.
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:13.039
Uh just getting there is comical enough in itself, like taking a taxi with six other riders, seven other riders that has no AC for like five or six hours, uh all the bikes packed into the van.
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:18.800
Like that country in itself, race or not, is an experience.
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:23.599
Like nothing ever goes to plan, but it sort of always works out, which is a cool thing.
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:25.199
And uh Yeah.
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:27.679
Trying to think like other funny stuff.
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.320
There is like a lot of seriousness to stuff that happens.
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:32.079
Like in Greece, there was a guy that got stuck.
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:39.679
We had to go by these like beehives, like the bee farms, and there's like just stacks of like the bee houses like on next to the road.
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:52.800
And uh I guess like the promoter scouted it, and when he scouted it, they weren't there, but during the race they were there, and there was a guy that got stung by like two or three in his neck, and he's like deathly allergic to like bees.
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:58.880
And uh I remember seeing him, I was like, oh dude, he's not doing good, like genuinely like concerned for him.
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:11.199
Like, didn't know if like we needed to call somebody or what, but uh yeah, pretty heavy stuff, and then like he ends up finishing, so it's like it's cool to like see people like that was one of the harder things for me, like during the races, like seeing people quit.
00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:19.679
Like that was uh because I've had to do that before and I know that feeling, but uh you don't travel all the way across the world just to want to quit.
00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:22.880
Like nobody's nobody's wanting to do that, you know.
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:30.239
So like to see people like have to give up on their on their dreams and like their hopes, and uh that was pretty tough for me.
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:40.320
Uh and then you also like one thing I told one of my coaches last year at the end of the year after the divide was like I want to be around more like-minded people.
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.159
And uh damn if I didn't accomplish that this year.
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:59.039
Like the guy who ended up winning Silk Road, I had coffee with him for an hour or two, like before the race, like just talking and like just it's like I said earlier, like it's nice to feel like I'm not an outcast.
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:13.360
And like there are people that like get like my type of thinking in like the stuff that we like to do, but uh yeah, I definitely accomplished like be able to like say that I surrounded myself with more like-minded people this year, and that feels good.
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:14.800
But uh yeah.
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:21.119
When you were talking about grown men crying, it brought me back to the marathon in 2023.
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:25.519
So Dallas Marathon, you run from downtown to the lake.
00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:31.280
And again, I was telling you, I had my music on, it was kind of low, but there's a song uh by The Plot in You.
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:32.880
It's called Left Behind.
00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:46.079
And I always, though I know a lot of the words, it's one of those things where just like any song, when you hear the words and you process the words, the song means something to you, and it probably doesn't mean anything for the reason that they actually wrote it, right?
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:47.679
But it's contextual, right?
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:55.119
And to me, in that moment when that song came on, I just started crying.
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.320
And it was the weirdest thing because I like wasn't sad.
00:47:58.639 --> 00:48:09.599
I was actually recognizing the fact that of the man I had left behind from like who I was to who I was in the moment.
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:18.320
And now that was super interesting, and I'm sure it looked very strange if anybody looked hard enough and I'm like, ha ha ha ha, like there's like you know, derillity.
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:19.519
No, I get that.
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:27.440
But I'm so much more in tune now that I understand that you we don't ever leave that person behind.
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:29.360
That person's always there, the person we were.
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:30.400
We've always evolved.
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:34.000
Like that is just part of the foundation that we've built, right?
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:51.280
And so what happens is reality-wise, yes, we might reshape the foundation, we might try to chip away a couple things, but in the long run, as long as we're building a stronger foundation upon the things that we've learned, like whoever that man was before to the man that I'm becoming now, you're always gonna have those memories.
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:53.360
Like that is who you were.
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:54.960
That may not be who you are now.
00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.840
And so I think it's interesting again, the way that it's I've evolved and the way that I think about these things.
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:04.159
But how does one get into gravel?
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:07.599
Like, where the hell, like what are we doing here?
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:12.719
I mean, I've done more mountain bike races than I have done gravel races, but uh Okay.
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.119
And that's a great question.
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:18.320
Is that like, are all these races considered gravel races?
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:19.840
Are they considered mountain bike races?
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:21.280
Like, how does this all fit?
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:29.840
I mean, theoretically you could ride a gravel bike on the races, and people do, but uh God bless them.
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.000
Like I get I would get beat the fuck up.
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:39.679
Like that's 90% of the reasoning why I ride like a mountain bike and I ride a full suspension mountain bike, is just to like save my body.
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:53.280
And uh Yeah, like I I can barely feel my my fingers, my toes, I don't really feel so like if I'm feeling that on a mountain bike, I'm definitely gonna I'm not gonna be able to zip up a jacket after the fact if I'm riding a gravel bike.
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:58.320
But uh yeah, there as far as like gravel riding, like I love gravel riding.
00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:10.800
Like it's mostly like what I do around my house, but uh I've done one gravel race, like to be honest, anything that's like short, I just and I say short, I guess it's under 24 hours, like or 12.
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:11.920
We'll say 12 hours.
00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:18.159
Like that uh I don't like shorter efforts, and it's I've always sort of been like that.
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:21.599
Like the longer it is, the better I feel at the end.
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:27.760
Uh yeah screwing up riding moto, like it was just one of those things, like you sort of did a cross drain.
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:45.360
So I had like a road bike from a road bike and a mountain bike from like like 16 or 17, just sort of always did that as like a a side thing, but uh yeah, never got fully into it until I broke my femur, and like after I broke my femur, I was like, okay, like started out with road riding.
00:50:45.519 --> 00:51:01.760
I still had like a pretty nice road bike, so I just continued on with that and uh ended up moving to North Carolina and like of course around here, like I live in like one of the best spots to like ride mountain bikes on the east coast, so uh course to get another mountain bike and like start riding off-road more.
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:07.599
And uh yeah, it is one of those things I feel like it really depends on where you live.
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:11.760
Like if I lived in Georgia, I probably wouldn't be into cycling, you know.
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:22.480
Uh but where I live at now is like I really am blessed with where I live because I can literally ride from my front door and be alone in thirty minutes.
00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:25.519
You know, like don't have to see anybody for hours.
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:36.480
Or like where I grew up in Georgia, like you're dealing with dickhead drivers and like people are on their phones and just like it's scary, and I don't like that road aspect of it anymore.
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:42.400
So I feel like the gravel side is nice because you get away from all the hustle and bustle of stuff.
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:52.079
And uh in some ways it is more dangerous because you are more alone, but in a lot of ways it isn't more dangerous, and yeah, I feel like like I said, it's just one of those things it depends on where you live at.
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:54.000
Some places might not have any gravel roads at all.
00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:56.880
So I mean, like, what's the point of having a gravel bike?
00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:01.920
But uh other places like people in Kansas, like that's a lot of what they have.
00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:06.559
And uh yeah, it just depends on where you live, to me at least.
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:07.840
What's next, my dude?
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:09.360
Discriminate any bikes.
00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:10.239
I love it.
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:10.719
I don't know.
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:12.559
It sounded like you hate everybody.
00:52:13.840 --> 00:52:14.880
I love I'll ride.
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:24.159
I mean, I have a road bike, a gravel bike, a mountain bike, but I'm tend to mostly ride the mountain bike because if I want to go somewhere, I can always get to it on the mountain bike.
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:31.039
Like I can always I can take the most fun path or most like obscure way to get there was like you're on a road bike, you're stuck to it.
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:35.119
You know, like you're not really you're not really getting off-road, even though I'll try.
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:38.719
But uh yeah, it is more fun to ride a mountain bike than me.
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:39.599
Nice.
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:41.440
I understand, and I agree with you.
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:43.599
My brother-in-law won't, but I will.
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:47.599
He also is single speed for gravel, and I'm like, you're an idiot.
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:49.039
Like, we've got gears on purpose.
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:50.320
Like, what are we doing here?
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:51.840
That's what people say, I'm crazy.
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:54.000
I'm like, you've never met a single speeder before.
00:52:54.239 --> 00:53:03.280
Like I tried riding a couple yeah, when I was still racing mountain bikes a lot, I tried ri uh racing a couple single speeds at cross-country, you know, or even riding.
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:04.880
I was like, why am I doing this?
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:06.079
This is stupid.
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:09.920
There's people that do tour divide and like the mountain races on single speeds.
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:17.679
And I'm like my brother-in-law was one that tried this year, and unfortunately, he got bronchitis and had to pull out, but he's already trying to think about where he make it to.
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:22.719
So oh, I think some one of the bigger cities, I think it was Helena, unfortunately.
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:26.559
It's like he like was like a couple days in, yeah, and had to pull out there.
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:28.400
But I want to say it was Helena.
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:31.679
Montana's a tough state, but uh yeah, yeah.
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:33.840
I think all of them are tough, Mac.
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:36.239
I think all when you go through Montana.
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:44.480
I think it's like as far as like the mileage and like the climbing goes and like the the terrain, Montana is like, yeah.
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:47.840
I always heard a saying, like, if you can make it through Montana, you can do the whole thing.
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:58.639
And uh after doing the whole thing, if you can make it through Montana, like that was like a big like check off of list because like the riding there is hard and it comes really early on.
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:06.480
So it's like you don't have much to to warm yourself up, and if you're already sick going into it, like it's not a place where you're gonna recover at, that's for sure.
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:10.719
Yeah, and that's what's so interesting to me because I watch what you guys eat.
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:14.159
You know, you guys post stories about all this stuff, and it's just gas station crap.
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:16.639
And I I'm some and I get it.
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:20.960
I you're unsupported, you have to have calories because you need fuel for the body.
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:22.719
Like I understand that aspect of it.
00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:29.840
But on the other side of that, the immune system has to function and the you're not getting any micronutrients in that.
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:47.119
And so I told him, I was like, I'm not telling you to go start taking AG1 right away, but I was like, I think that in that, like those weeks leading up to it, you need to almost be more thinking about your immune system than you do deterring an aspect because you need to build up your immune system though that before you hit something like a tor.
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:57.679
And that's where I think like fruits, veggies, all that kinds of stuff, some uh like probiotic foods, things that are gonna really help the gut, so that the gut can then help the immune system for the entire body.
00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:02.880
And I just always get a lot of pushback from anybody I talk to about that because they're like, well, that's not what anybody else does.
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:07.599
I was like, just because they don't share it in their stories doesn't mean that they're not doing it.
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:10.320
And if they're not doing it, maybe that's your advantage.
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:11.360
You know what I mean?
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:20.880
Definitely for the divide specifically, I took like a week's worth of uh some type of like recovery drink at night.
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:24.400
And like, I don't know if that's helping me or if it's hurting me.
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:42.000
It's definitely not hurting me, but uh, or if it's even working, but uh yeah, I took that and uh yeah, I have a big proponent on like especially for something like the divide, coming in like pretty overweight, not pretty overweight, but you don't want to come in underweight, that's for sure.
00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:48.639
Because like I didn't weigh myself before and after that, but I can just look at myself and I could tell I probably lost 15 pounds.
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:53.280
Like it was it was Skyler Howells is the same thing before every rally.
00:55:53.360 --> 00:56:05.280
He's like, I have at least 10x 10 extra pounds on me going in because of the fact that it's like you know you're not gonna be able to eat enough, and that if you can use those that fat for energy reserves later, like let's pack it on, you know.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:07.760
I'm big about like yeah.
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:08.719
Go ahead.
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:12.400
No, I was just gonna say we're coming to the end, so what is next?
00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:13.679
What are the last thoughts?
00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:17.280
What didn't I ask you that you're like, holy shit, I need to get this off my chest.
00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:19.440
I honestly don't know what's next.
00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:23.360
Uh yeah, that is kind of fun because there is stuff that I do want to do.
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:28.079
Obviously, like Silk Road definitely has to be done at some point.
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:38.400
Um I don't know if that's next year or when, but uh Yeah, I definitely that's definitely at the top of my list.
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:40.400
There's stuff in the state that I want to do.
00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:44.400
Uh to be honest, there's stuff that I want to put on my own.
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:50.400
So like I just want to like I don't know what this next year is gonna be, but uh there'll definitely be something.
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:55.519
Because I don't foresee myself ever stopping doing these things until like I physically like can't.
00:56:55.679 --> 00:57:05.119
It'll probably evolve and change over time, but yeah, like the amount of like growth I've gotten out of it, I can't like turn my back on that.
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:06.880
So I'm definitely gonna be doing some.
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:09.360
Probably need to give myself more rest though.
00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:15.519
Like that's probably like the like the short-term goal is like to rest a little bit because I do feel smoked right now.
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:20.559
And uh yeah, I got some blood work done, so we'll see what the blood work says.
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:24.639
But I'm I'm suspecting some low numbers on some stuff when it comes back.
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:30.320
I'm glad to hear that you're smart enough to know that that's that's something that's a tool that we have in our tool basket, right?
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:39.360
When we're feeling these kinds of things, we can go to people that have ability to get data, right, to be able to tell us at least a baseline level where we're at, where we need to be, things of that nature.
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:44.800
So, well, dude, I really appreciate you taking the time to share some of your stories to be a human, right?
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:49.760
To let us understand what it feels like to grow and to be out there with your own thoughts and your own skin and things like that.
00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:53.760
And uh, I just look forward to continuing to watch your journey and watching you grow, man.
00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:55.599
I appreciate the opportunity to come on.
00:57:55.679 --> 00:58:01.840
I know I feel like it's been a long time in the making, but yeah, to be honest, like I feel like just I'm just Mac.
00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:10.480
So I don't really like think that people like want to hear about stuff like this, but uh yeah, it's cool to talk about it with people other than like the people in my little circle.
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:12.400
So yeah, thank you for having me on.
00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:13.280
You're right.
00:58:13.519 --> 00:58:16.400
And both of us have been on a journey the past year.
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:20.800
When we tried to do this, both of us everybody's everybody's on a journey.
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:22.480
Everybody's on a journey, you know?
00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:24.880
Like so that's okay.
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:27.360
We did it now because that's when it needed to happen.
00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:28.079
Yep.
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:29.920
No better time than the current time.
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:31.199
Uh thanks again, man.
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:32.559
Yeah, no, thank you.
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:36.880
Thank you very much for tuning in to this episode of Deepish Conversations.
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:42.639
I really appreciate Mac for taking the time and working through the past year and a half journey that he's been on.
00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:47.679
If there's anything that you took away from this episode, please hit us in the comments so we can discuss.
00:58:47.840 --> 00:58:51.440
If you've got ideas for other guests that should be on, please let me know.
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:54.079
Other than that, share with a friend, subscribe for more.
00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:55.119
I'll see you next time.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.719
When I ran my most recent ultra marathon, I had to take a trail dumpy.
00:00:04.959 --> 00:00:10.560
And it made me think about all the miles that you're riding on these bicycles to crowd the world right now.
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:12.400
Like, what is the trail dumpy like for you?
00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:17.440
Like, do you have to be strategic and find the right tree and pick up a bunch of rocks while you're running into the woods?
00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.399
Or are you a little bit more process oriented about it?
00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:24.640
To be honest, uh there's not very many of those.
00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:33.520
Like I feel like I just burn through stuff so much that uh I can only think of like a one I can't count on one hand how many times I've had to like take a trail dump.
00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:41.759
And uh yeah, at the end of the day, it definitely feels something in the mornings, but uh yeah, normally it depends on where you're at too.
00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:47.200
Like if it's like if I was in Kurzakstan, like the ground is like so hard there, there's no trees around.
00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:54.960
So you have to like either be okay with seeing somebody like watching you take a dump or just like hold it in.
00:00:55.119 --> 00:01:00.240
But uh yeah, you had to dig up like a spot in the ground and like usually just throw it in the ground.
00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:05.439
But uh yeah, there's not very too there's not too many of them out there.
00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:13.120
Do you have to like I remember I can't remember the name of the product that I bought, but I got my brother-in-law, who's a big gravel rider as well.
00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:18.400
I bought him kind of like a bag of like uh butt wipes essentially, and it was some fun, you know, goût day named thing.
00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:20.959
I mean, do you carry a bunch of that stuff or like dude wipes or something?
00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:21.599
You know what I mean?
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:24.560
Yeah, I carry a lot of like personal hygiene stuff.
00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:35.599
Like that's uh yeah, that's one thing I take very serious when you do those things, is like if you let something fester, it's gonna, it can cause you to like have to stop your ride.
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:47.120
And uh dude wipes, like chamois cream, uh just chafing cream, uh, yeah, there's a bunch of different stuff that I take, but uh dude wipes are good.
00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:51.599
Any type of like just like wet wipes, but uh just something to keep clean.
00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:53.519
And then how does that change, right?
00:01:53.599 --> 00:02:06.560
So some of the the the big bike packing events that you've gone on that are multi-days versus the you know, the bike packing events where you might be out there for a couple days, or excuse me, like one day, but you probably aren't gonna get any sleep.
00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:07.519
You might get a quick nap.
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:13.439
Like, how does that evolve of what you bring with you and prepare for that on the hygiene thing that you mentioned?
00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:15.840
The hygiene thing sort of stays the same.
00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:19.120
Like it never it never really changes.
00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:28.479
Uh yeah, I will try to like not use this chamois cream and stuff as much as possible just to have that as a last like resort.
00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:32.639
But uh every night when I'm done, I'll like put restorative cream on.
00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:40.479
Just like in your nether regions and just try to like get the stuff that's like a little weird, trying to get it healed overnight.
00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:41.680
And the stuff does really good.
00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:44.800
It's like some some type of product from France.
00:02:44.879 --> 00:03:05.439
I can't remember the name of it, but uh, yeah, it's worked for me, and I've never I mean, knock on wood, like I can think of like two or three saddle sores I've had, but uh I've also had like pretty good bike fits done, and like I sort of know when something like that's popping up, so I try to get it before before it gets into anything like too dire.
00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:14.159
And then, but so like for a 30-hour race versus maybe like you know, a 2,000-mile ride, right?
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:17.039
Which might be a race, but in the long run, if you finish, you won, right?
00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:17.919
You did the thing.
00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:20.159
How does one resupply all that stuff, right?
00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:22.000
You're keeping these hygiene things with you.
00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:24.319
Are you mailing things to a certain spot?
00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:28.560
Like, is it an organizate because a lot of these I've noticed that you do are unsupported.
00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:34.879
No, that's like one thing that's the biggest difference between like the running ultras and the cycling ultras.
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:37.280
There is no outside support.
00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:42.319
Like you can't mail yourself anything to like a Dropbox or whatever beforehand.
00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:48.479
You can't like book an Airbnb before the race starts, or book a hotel before the race starts.
00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:52.159
Like it's all like what you take with you is like what you have.
00:03:52.400 --> 00:04:04.960
And you can buy stuff from the general public stores or like stuff that's open to generally anybody, but you can't just go knock on somebody's door or like say, like, hey, can I use your get some wet wipes or get like take a shower or like water or whatever?
00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:12.879
Like that's highly frowned upon and uh yeah, it's unique, and that's part of the reason why I like it because you are like truly on your own.
00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.039
Like you can't get anything from other racers.
00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:22.079
Uh yeah, it's once the once you start the race, like you are on your own.
00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:27.680
But like as far as like resupplying stuff goes, like that just depends on the route.
00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:46.959
Like, I'm pretty big into like just trying to dive deep into like what the route actually is and where you can get stuff, and yeah, you sort of just know, like, alright, I have 80 miles to like this store, so roughly how much can I do I need to like get me through that 80 miles?
00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:58.079
And then you start looking at the store hours and see if like, okay, well, if it's 80 miles, it might take me eight hours, or it might take me six hours, or it might take me 15 hours.
00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:07.920
So like you try to like I always keep 2,000 calories on me as an emergency, like no matter what, uh, and then just go off of there.
00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:16.480
But yeah, you sort of just look at the roof, know where you can get stuff at, and then just really just go from there.
00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:20.160
Like, there's not much you can do other you can overthink it and take way too much.
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.160
But uh yeah.
00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:29.439
Like for this past one I did, like for the one in Utah, I took way more sports nutrition on that than I normally ever would during a race.
00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:37.759
Uh like if I was doing say the one in Greece I did this year, I took like maybe 10 gels.
00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:44.319
And uh the one in Utah this past weekend, it was not even a quarter of that.
00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:55.439
And I took probably 20 gels, which I didn't eat all of them, but like 10, 11 sports, like tailwind sports mix for my bladder, my water bladder.
00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:04.079
Uh yeah, it just depends on like what the race is and like where you're gonna be at and what you're gonna get, and if you're in the States or not.
00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:07.120
The logistics part of it is what I hear in that, right?
00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:16.720
And that's from that ultra-marathon perspective, a little bit that I think I understand is that yes, you want to train, you want to be able to do the event, but you also don't want to overcarry because then it's on your person.
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:18.879
You have to actually carry it from place to place.
00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:28.720
But if you don't plan and have your logistics, like your nutrition and the way you're gonna hydrate and when you need to potentially take electrolytes and all those kinds of things planned out, that's also where a lot of people fail.
00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:39.439
And so, what did it take for you to learn to kind of like begin to prepare prepare for these multi-day events in that you said the 2,000 calorie emergency, but as well within that, like where are you getting water?
00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:40.319
Do you have filters?
00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:43.040
Like, what is that, how does that all break down for you?
00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:50.399
Uh yeah, just it's continually evolved because I failed a lot doing it.
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:56.399
Like I know, like I have a cycling coach and like she always like preaches like to know yourself and know your body.
00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:09.360
And uh yeah, it's just like an experiment I've ran on myself over the past, I mean, pretty much all my life really, but like the past five, six, seven years, I've like been more in tune with it, I guess.
00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:17.199
Uh and the yeah, like I said, you just have to fail to like learn what your limits are, in a sense, before you can really know yourself.
00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:22.240
And I feel like I'm starting to like like I don't need to have everything planned out now.
00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:26.160
Like I sort of know what my body needs and like what my body can get by on.
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.759
And uh yeah, it's just been a continual evolution.
00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:34.639
And uh like now I don't need to know how much calories I'm gonna take or like whatever.
00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:40.720
I can just go by what I've what I'm feeling in the moment, and uh yeah, it's just been a continual evolution.
00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.000
When I first started doing it, like I had no fucking clue.
00:07:44.160 --> 00:08:10.000
Uh like I was just like so delusional that I just like I'm going for a bike ride, it's just gonna be a long bike ride, but uh yeah, I definitely get more nervous about it now than I did then, but uh it's also because I know like what the possi what possible risks are out there, and uh like when I first started, I had no like idea, but uh yeah, yeah, not much else to say about that.
00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:12.240
Yeah, no, that's cool.
00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:29.920
When you did the Tour Divide 2025 last year, that to me seemed like a turning point for you because I watched you get on the bike, I watched you start to ride, I watched you try to find your yourself within the way that you rode a bicycle, what you were doing that for.
00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:36.080
When you finished the tour divide and you made a post about it, there was something that you said in that caption that said, training is a myth.
00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:38.559
Being a conqueror of your mind is not.
00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:41.919
And honestly, I wanted to know like by the end of that, like what does that mean to you?
00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:46.799
I mean, going into that, I like I was off the bike for a month and a half.
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:48.720
Like I had no training going into it.
00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:59.840
So I had like this crazy like vertigo symptoms going on where I couldn't even like get to the bathroom without somebody helping me, like walk down the hall for like a month and a half before.
00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:04.320
And it wasn't if I didn't buy a non-refundable plane ticket, I would not have gone.
00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:13.279
But uh I sort of knew I knew my tendencies, well, I might want to back out of this, so I just like just bought the non-refundable and uh yeah, glad I did.
00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:18.799
I think I didn't even I don't even think I rode before leaving to go to Canada.
00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:28.559
And like my first like ride back was like in Canada, like two or three days before, and did like an hour or two, and I was like, okay, like I can turn my head, and like that was the biggest thing.
00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:32.559
I just want to make sure I can like look over my shoulder, like to see if something was coming.
00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:36.559
And uh yeah, for a month before that, I couldn't even walk outside and do that.
00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:44.320
So I had no clue like what my fitness levels were gonna be, or like I honestly didn't think I was gonna make it through it.
00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:53.279
So I had just just taken every day as it as it was, and uh it's weird by the end of it, I've never felt better after an ultra.
00:09:53.519 --> 00:10:14.879
Like I didn't have any pains or niggles, like I felt in better shape than I did obviously go into it, but uh yeah, that doesn't mean it wasn't easy, but uh I just feel like uh that one like it made me learn a lot about the loopholes I get into my head, about the negative spirals and like how to like sort of stop them in a way.
00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:19.120
I'm not the best at stopping them, but I'm like good at being aware of it now.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:28.080
And uh yeah, that was uh I feel like in a month I aged 10 years mentally on that trip.
00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:35.600
And that was uh yeah, I was alone the pretty much the entire time, which is it was more soothing than I thought it was gonna be.
00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:39.440
I was pretty stressed out that I should be on alone for like that amount of time going into it.
00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:47.279
But uh remember telling somebody after the fact I was like, man, I don't mind if it was if I was a little bit more alone, you know.
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:49.600
I didn't mind it one bit.
00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:57.759
And uh yeah, I think at that time of my life it was just something I needed, and uh yeah, I definitely do feel like a different person after that.
00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:06.960
Like I don't I obviously am the same person, but there is a lot of stuff that I look back on, I'm like, man, like it's just not who I am now, you know.
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:13.919
But it was uh yeah, that was I've always liked the movie Forrest Gump, and I always love the scene like where he runs across the country.
00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:38.240
And uh I remember posting something about it on Facebook and like one of my friends from like middle school and high school comment on, she's like, Oh, like she you finally did it, like you did the force gump, like but your version of it, and I was like, Well, I didn't even think about it like that, but yeah, I sort of always like thought about traversing a country would be cool, but I didn't think it was gonna be as I knew it was gonna be visually cool, but I didn't think it was gonna be cool like in the sense of like learning more about myself.
00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:39.279
Yeah.
00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:41.679
Why the tour divide, right?
00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:46.240
Like, talk to me a little bit of like I know it starts up in Canada, it ends down in New Mexico, right?
00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:47.279
That's a lot of miles.
00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:48.159
How many miles is it?
00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:49.360
How many days did it take you?
00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:52.159
And then after that, like, why did you do it?
00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:57.600
Why was the Tour Divide the thing that you bought a non-refundable plane ticket to go do?
00:11:58.240 --> 00:11:59.600
Well, I guess I'll start with that.
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:17.279
Like, I broke my femur a few years ago and uh was just laying on the couch, like watching YouTube and came across a video of the Tour Divide, and I'm like, well, like I was pretty overriding dirt bikes at the time, and I was like looking at that, I'm like, man, I could do that, and like I want to do that, but it also like really scared me at the time.
00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:28.399
And uh yeah, that was like what sort of sparked like all of that was like breaking my leg and like seeing that on YouTube and was like, okay, like I feel like I could do something like that.
00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:48.639
And I think it was a few months later I did like my first trip from my parents' house, like I could barely even like walk still, and I like rode from like my parents like somewhere in North Carolina to watch my brother race, and uh this is pretty fun, but uh but I always use it as like a stepping stone to like get to the tour divide or like whatever.
00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:54.000
But uh yeah, that one like it just I love that part of the country.
00:12:54.240 --> 00:13:01.440
Like I would love to live out like in that part of the country someday in my life, but uh that was like one of the key points.
00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:03.600
I was like, okay, that's cool.
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:14.159
Uh but also is like in like bikepacking, ultra cycling, tour divide is like widely considered like the one, I guess.
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:22.080
Uh it would be like like if somebody won the tour divide, it's like winning a super cross championship or winning a GNCC championship.
00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:27.519
It's like that is like what everybody looks to every year is like the standard.
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:42.000
And uh yeah, like I didn't race it, I did a time trial on it by myself, but uh in a lot of ways I thought that was a lot more fun um just being out there by myself.
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:50.240
But after doing more of the races this year, I'm like the one thing I do love about doing this is the community and like the the people you're around.
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:57.440
Like I've always felt like an oddball, but uh it's the first group of people I've been around, like, oh like you're a little bit more oddball than me.
00:13:57.519 --> 00:13:59.120
Like I like get you, you know?
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:01.279
So you're my people.
00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:02.639
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:04.559
Yeah, like it's cool to be around that.
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:08.720
But uh Yeah, what was the first two questions you had?
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.039
Like you were talking just telling us about like why the tour, but like break it like when you start, where did you start in Canada?
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:16.240
How many days did it take you?
00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:17.440
How many miles was the trip?
00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:18.480
All that kinds of fun stuff.
00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:24.480
If you're enjoying this episode, please send it to a friend or someone that you think might enjoy this episode.
00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:26.240
I really appreciate you tuning in.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.639
So yeah, the tour divide starts in Banff.
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:30.240
Uh Banf, yeah.
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:34.559
So I think there's like 200, 300 miles in Canada.
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.960
It's 2700 miles in like length.
00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:44.399
It varies every year with like fire diversions and like snow diversions if they even have diversions.
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:52.240
Uh but mostly fire diversions in the past few years have been one of the sticking points for the route.
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.480
But uh yeah, I pretty much hit all of like the Tour Divide route.
00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:01.200
I did some of like the Great Divide route, which is just like the American, what is it?
00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.039
American Cycling Association.
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:07.200
Like they have a published route, and like that's like what people tour down all the time.
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:30.799
And uh you also have the Tour Divide route, which is more of a race-oriented where they do some like a little bit gnarlier sections and stuff, but uh yeah, I'd say like 90% of it I was on the Tour Divide route, and then there's there was one diversion I had to do in Wyoming because uh they had closed the road because a grizzly was eating on a carcass of something.
00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:34.879
You know, like yeah, it's probably not the way that I want to go.
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:46.080
So I just like took the other route down like the road, but uh, and in some people on uh UTV like ask you, like, what are you doing out here by yourself because of bears or something like that?
00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:47.440
Multiple.
00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:48.879
Multiple.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:55.120
Like I doesn't I talked a big game about the grizzlies and stuff before going up there, and uh Yeah, you did.
00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:58.879
I was I was kind of like being serious about it.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:15.600
Like I've been outside, I've been outdoors all my life, but uh Yeah, once you start talking to people, and then you go to the the uh outdoor store in Banff and they have two different options of bear sprays you can buy, you start talking to them about it, and they're like, Yeah, like you'd let them get so close before you can spray them.
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:19.360
And I'm like, okay, like still wasn't really too bothersome.
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:26.240
And then uh the first day, like I had lost my bear spray.
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:36.320
And uh I was just like in prime grizzly territory, and uh yeah, that was when I was like, okay, like this is a little I don't like this feeling.
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.279
So I was able to pick one up like as soon as possible the next day.
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:51.279
But then you start getting out late at night in like these ranches in Montana and stuff, and uh like when the sun's going down, the farmers are up there like just watching the sunset and their UTVs or whatever, and they're like, What are you doing up here?
00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:52.960
Just just riding.
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:54.960
And they're like, by yourself?
00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:00.559
I'm like, yeah, like I don't didn't think anything of it, and like they're like, That's they're like, that's not a good idea.
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:28.319
And I'm like, oh, like once two or three of those like instances happened, I was like, okay, this is like I stopped wanting to sleep outside, and I was like primarily just trying to shelter inside wherever possible, and uh yeah, they are definitely apex predators because there was one night I stopped in like a a snowmobile warming hut, which is like at the top of this mountain, and uh they have these huts for snowmobile people who just if they need to take shelter, you can get in.
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:35.200
And uh I stayed in there and I put all my food in like the outhouse outside, like a concrete like stone outhouse.
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:43.359
And I put like a it probably weighed 25, 30 pound rock up next to the door to like keep it shut.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:59.759
And the next morning I woke up, there was obvious signs that the rock had been moved and like my food had been ate, and like you look in the road, and like there's a bear print like twice as big as my hand, so I'm like, well, they're here, but uh yeah.
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:15.680
And also the Johnson brothers, they also got me worked up too, because they go hunting in the area that you ride through, and they were showing me videos of some of the bears like out there out there, and that's the exact same spot that that like instance with the bear in the in the outhouse happened at.
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:21.119
So I was like, oh luckily there's only like one or two days after that of and then you were out of bear country.
00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:26.559
But yeah, I think as far as how long it took me, I think it was like 26 days, 27 days.
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:35.839
Like I wasn't like necessarily like racing per se, because like going into it, I had no idea if I was gonna even make it out of Canada.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:42.000
Like I thought I was gonna like uh get 100 miles in and have uh somebody come and get me to take me back to Calgary to go fly out.
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:46.160
But uh yeah, I progressively got better as it went on.
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:53.680
And uh yeah, I knew going into it it wasn't gonna be like going into it, I wanted to do it as fast as I possibly could.
00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:58.480
And then the illness happened and I couldn't like I knew that was out the window.
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:08.880
But uh so I just turned it into just doing what I could do and like seeing where I ended up and yeah, like I think it was like twenty-seven days maybe.
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:09.839
I can't remember.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:13.759
I honestly don't even think about the days and like or how many miles it is.
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:19.200
I just think about like the stuff I've seen and like the experiences like that you have out there.
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:32.960
Like it's the mileage and the time doesn't really with finishing the tour divide in 25 and then going to uh hell Hellenic, I'm probably saying it wrong, to sell it you needed down in 2026, like what happened, right?
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:42.799
Like you get to a point where you decide in 2025 you're gonna do the tour, and it was kind of this big thing, but then you chose three big things, you know, for 2026.
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:49.279
So what kind of happened after Tour Divide to where you said I need to keep going for this?
00:19:50.720 --> 00:20:00.880
I mean, I I think that anybody that's close to me can like attest to like how much of a better person it makes me after the fact when I do those things.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:08.720
Uh yeah, and I just wanted to give myself as as many possibilities as I could to do those things this year.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:13.759
Uh yeah, I stopped shooting the National Enduros for work.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:20.640
Uh, and I was like, okay, if I could do that, I'm gonna pretty much go all in on like stuff I wanted to do this year.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:27.279
And yeah, with work, it is hard to like schedule around like races because like I am tied to GNCC.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.039
Like I want to be at GNCC, like I'm not giving that up.
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:34.880
So like there's only so many races I can do or like events I can do.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:49.119
And uh yeah, originally I chose Hurricane in Florida, which was in February, Hellenic in May in Greece, and then Silk Road in August in Kurzakstan.
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:54.480
And yeah, it's just like with life thing, it's just get messed up and like don't go as planned.
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:58.160
So like that's where the one in Utah came in to play.
00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:07.519
Like Silk didn't go my way, so I was like, I really needed like just to feel some sense of accomplishment and to feel better about things really.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:14.079
So that's like I didn't sign up for that race until like six days, seven days before.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:20.319
Like I didn't even I had like flight credit for a flight that didn't work out, and I was like, okay, I'll just change it to this.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:25.759
And so I just changed it to that and had no plan really, but uh yeah.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:28.240
The one in Florida didn't go my way.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:31.759
I had like a mechanical that was ultimately my fault.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:42.640
Like I ran through some vines and just didn't stop and just power shifted through stuff, and eventually my uh one of my bolts from a derailer came out, and so I just hadn't didn't have a bolt to fix it.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:49.759
I turned it into a single speed, but uh at that point I was like, fuck, I don't want to like really ride a single speed all the way around Florida.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:22:04.559
But uh Yeah, then that switched into Hellenic in May, which was that was probably the hardest like physical one I've ever Done just as far as like the way my body felt afterwards.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.759
Uh yeah, I felt beat up.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:09.119
There's a lot of hiking.
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:13.359
It was like I think it's like 570 miles or something like that.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:16.400
But there was like 91,000 feet of climbing.
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:24.720
So like you're doing Everest three times uh in a short amount of time compared to like some of the other races and rides I've done.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:26.960
Uh yeah.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:34.319
If that was 570 miles, I probably walked like a walk 70 miles at least of that.
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:37.039
At least it feels like probably less than that.
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:53.519
But uh in my mind, like it was nice to be able to ride at times because I was like walking that much, but uh just from how steep stuff is and then how rough it was, but uh that was like my first like mountain race.
00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:05.599
So like in the States you have Tour Divide, and then globally, like the mountain race series is probably like the other greatest or well-known series they have.
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:12.319
They have four races, one in Morocco, one in Greece, one in Kurzakstan, and one in Turkey.
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:18.160
And uh yeah, the one in Greece and Kurzakstan just line up perfect for the schedule, so I was like, Yeah, let's do those.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:25.759
And uh looking back in hindsight, maybe the one from going from Greece to Kurzakstan was too much.
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:30.960
I was pretty smoked afterwards and didn't really give myself any downtime.
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:37.759
Uh went straight into like doing another training camp in Colorado, uh elevation to get ready for Kurzakstan.
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:40.720
Uh had a lot of fun doing it too.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:44.319
But uh by the time I got to Kurzakstan, I was just smoked.
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:54.559
I was emotionally, mentally, and physically just smoked and uh sort of felt like that going into it, but uh I felt like it was a disservice not to try.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:59.440
So I was like, okay, like I've spent all this time and this money and effort putting into this.
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.880
I was like, okay, might as well just go and see how it goes.
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:08.319
But uh yeah, just very fatigued feeling, just didn't work out my way.
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:14.720
So I was like, there's no I started loathing being there and like loathing riding my bike, and I did not like that.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:23.279
Like I've if anything, the bike's given me like a lot more in my life than any other sport or like hobby has.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:40.160
So I didn't didn't want to ruin that and destroy my my love for it, which in hindsight, like yeah, it sucked like really bad to like pull out of that race because that's something that like that one sort of eyed and like that race are like equal in my mind.
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:45.359
Like that's uh definitely the hardest like place I've ever been to in my life.
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:56.400
Uh it is I've only did two days of it, so I have a very like small portion size, but it is as hard as everybody says it is, and it's as extreme as everybody says it is.
00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:06.000
And uh the best way I can describe it is like if you can ride a wobbly wheel all you want, but uh how long do you want to ride a wobbly wheel?
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:12.880
And I feel like I just didn't want to ride a wobbly wheel anymore, and uh which is weird, it's like the first time I've ever felt like that.
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:26.640
But yeah, get back home, and I'm like sitting around pretty m moping around basically, uh and did not want to wait another year to have to have some type of redemption, I guess.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:36.640
So like had a friend that was like, yeah, like you like I told him that I didn't feel like I had it in me to do more than one a year as far as ultras go.
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.079
And he like sort of pushed back on that, and I was like, Yeah, whatever.
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:41.200
Kind of annoyed me.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:47.839
But then I started looking around at races and I seen the one in Park City, and I was like, okay, like still want to do it.
00:25:48.799 --> 00:26:00.640
So I just like signed up and just like full in on it, and uh yeah, that one worked out my in my in my favor, but uh totally unexpected, didn't like expect that going into it.
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.680
Uh like I said, I just wanted like some sort of accomplishment.
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:23.200
I didn't want to I didn't want to walk around for the rest of the year with my tail tucked between my legs, and I know like I don't have to because like I put in like the effort and I know like what I've done to get to this point, but uh it also is nice to just have something like the hold your hat on at the end of the year if that makes sense.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:25.440
Yeah, no, it does.
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:28.000
Stopping isn't quitting.
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:33.519
That's one of the things that came up in the last episode that I did with Chase Ingram.
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:38.559
So if anybody's listening, that was a theme that we had, and that's something that I think is interesting that you said in there.
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.319
It's like you didn't want to keep riding the wobbly wheel.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:48.559
Like I think that that's an okay place to get to mentally and be like, okay, I need to stop.
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:50.160
You're not quitting, right?
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:51.599
Like life is gonna go on.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.839
You're gonna have another chance to ride a bicycle.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:05.039
So, like in this moment, though, I think that that's the hard part too, that we all juggle in this is that as athletes we see not continuing as quitting.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:14.400
But there's also a self-preservation that comes along, and there's such an interesting fine line there that we always have to walk, right?
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:18.079
Yeah, that because there could be a National Enduro that I would have gone and raced.
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.480
Ohio last year was a great one.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:30.720
There were multiple times as I was trying to drag my bike up some of those slick, disgusting uphills that I literally was like, I feel like a beginner right now.
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:35.200
And I don't want this feeling in my chest, I don't want this feeling in my head.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:38.319
But I said, but we're not quitting, right?
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:42.799
Like we started the race, I am still capable, so I'm gonna continue the race.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:48.799
But I think within yours, it's different because of the fact that what you said in the sense that like the wobble wheel, right?
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:54.319
You knew going in that you were in a, I say bad place, but just you were probably pretty worn out.
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:58.000
And so within that, you had some self-preservation in mind.
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:04.880
And so, as well, this not being an immediate competition, it makes sense that that in and of itself, that stopping is not quitting.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:06.720
It gives you a chance to kind of come back.
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:12.720
But I think it's interesting though, you said that you needed some kind of redemption.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:18.960
Why do you think that it keeps coming back to that even trying isn't enough?
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:24.160
Probably because I hold myself to like a pretty damn high standard within my in my head.
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:27.279
And uh yeah, I haven't really thought about that.
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:34.079
Um it is a very big outlet for me, and uh I have bad fear of missing out on stuff.
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:39.119
So like if there's an opportunity to do stuff, like I feel like I should be there and I should be taking full advantage of it.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.480
Uh and that's like sort of like what Utah was for me.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:46.079
It was like a a gift I didn't know I was getting.
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:46.960
You know?
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:53.440
And uh more so just and I hate this about myself, but like these things do make me feel better about myself.
00:28:53.680 --> 00:29:04.319
I would like to get to a point in my life where I don't need like to do some crazy type of event to make myself feel justified, but uh it makes me feel justified right now.
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:11.680
And honestly, like it gets a little bit of that competitiveness competitiveness in me that's out, get it out.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:21.119
And uh Yeah, I it's one of the first things in my life that I actually feel decent at too, so that's pretty cool to feel.
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:28.319
Um yeah, I don't do it for anybody else but me, but I almost do it for me too much sometimes.
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:40.400
And to much to the where the point like it becomes my identity and I need to like take a step back and say like okay, this is not the right thing, and like that's what Silk Road was for me at the time.
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:47.279
Like not saying it's not the right thing for me, but at that time like it wasn't the right thing for me.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:55.119
And uh yeah, I honestly feel like I learned more about myself from stopping that race than if I would have powered through.
00:29:55.279 --> 00:30:08.160
But I guess more of the like why I do it is like just to learn more about myself, like to know what my tendencies are and like what my strengths are, and uh not only the not only on the bike, but I feel like that just translated as a person.
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:16.079
Like I feel like it's made me understand like why I like taking photos so much and like why I like being creative and like why I do other things in my life.
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:22.319
But uh Yeah, it's just I use them as like a a self-help tool.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:28.640
Like that's basically like it's a it's a race and a it's an event, but it's more of a self-help thing for myself.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:30.799
It's like it's honestly therapy for me.
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:50.960
Like I very much like get wrapped up in my head in everyday life, and uh it's one of the few things that I can do that I don't get wrapped up in, and I can like process things correctly and not spiral out of control about stuff, and yeah, it gives me a sense of even though it is exhausting, it's very like mentally soothing for me.
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:52.400
Yeah, I love it, man.
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:53.680
Thank you for sharing that.
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:57.279
The therapy part is interesting because I found that as well.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:05.680
In 2023, we moved to Bonham, Texas, out in the middle of nowhere, and I was gonna train for a marathon and always wanted to do that, but life kept getting in the way.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:11.279
The reality is, is I just never made space for me to actually train enough to run to go try to do this marathon.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:13.039
And running the marathon was cool.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:14.880
I did it, I did it as like four and a half hours.
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.759
I wasn't trying to beat anybody, I just wanted to do the thing, right?
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:18.240
Yeah.
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.720
But what I found in that is the joy in the training, right?
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:31.119
In the being out there with my thoughts because I started listening to podcasts while I was running, but there was just too much noise.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:34.480
And so what I didn't, I was like, okay, well, what does that mean?
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:35.359
What do I need?
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:36.880
Okay, so I'm gonna do music.
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:44.480
And so there would be times that I would have music going, and I realized as I got more comfortable in my own skin, in my own head, out there running, right?
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:52.559
23, 24, 25, and down to 26, the music has either disappeared or it's gotten so low that it is 100% background noise.
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:59.839
And I think that that is that ability of us learning to get comfortable in our own skin and learning to be able to be comfortable with our own thoughts.
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:05.039
I think it's so like people like us, and I think people like us are everybody.
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:11.279
I I we're just the ones that have started to use these adventures as outlets.
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:31.119
It's really easy nowadays to get stuck in our own head, especially when we have so much from a societal pressure, right, that we've always had, but now you bring social media into the mix and you see this ability for everybody to lie to us, that they can tell us that their life is better than ours, that they have more money than us, that they have the cuter girlfriend or the cuter boyfriend or whatever that thing is.
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:38.480
And we always have this ability to feel behind somebody else or behind where we thought we would be when we looked back at our life.
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:51.839
And when we go on these, when we are able to live in our thoughts and be comfortable there, I think we're able to figure out that there's a base level of enjoyment in where we're actually at in life.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:33:08.079
And that all those things, the pressure, starts to kind of disappear because we realize that wait a minute, this moment, I'm happy right now, whatever that is, whether you're in the race, you know, in Greece, um, or if I'm on my my next run, whatever that is.
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:13.839
And then then I can learn to take that happiness and that moment, and that moment then becomes the week.
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:21.759
That moment becomes the month, that moment can become the entire year, because what I stopped doing is I stopped living in my head with everybody else's thoughts.
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:24.559
I and I learn to be very comfortable with mine.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:25.279
Yeah.
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:27.440
You and I have talked about this a lot.
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:40.079
And so within that, like, have you started to find any of those things for you that truly resonate where you're like on the tour, I know that when you came home, you changed a lot of your life.
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:41.599
Like, did that help?
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:42.559
Did it hurt?
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:49.680
Have you this year in 2026 have you started to feel things that you're like, I'm gonna remove a little bit of this, I need to add a little bit of this?
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:56.000
Like, what are you really starting to learn that you think a lot of us just don't listen to?
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:57.519
That's a good question.
00:33:57.839 --> 00:33:59.440
Uh let me think about that.
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:13.840
I think like learning about yourself is inherently scary because like you're learning about stuff that you don't really want to learn about, and uh I think just doing stuff like ultra cycling, anything ultra in general.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.719
Like ultra is like a such a broad word.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:23.199
Like I think that hikers are ultra endurance athletes, like they are like the epitome of it for me.
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.880
Like people who do the Appalachian Trail are out there for months at a time.
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:35.599
Like I was out there for a month, you know, they're out there for four or five, some of them, and uh just being in your head alone that long, I wonder what that would feel like.
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:48.639
But uh yeah, just from the time I have spent alone with myself, like it does raise uncomfortable questions about yourself, and I don't feel like a lot of people really want to go there, and I don't blame them.
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:53.760
Uh because I was one of those people that didn't want to go there for the longest time.
00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:28.880
And uh once you start learning a little bit more about yourself and why you operate the way you do, like it makes life a little bit more tolerable, like, or at least you understand like why you feel a certain way about things or like why you react a certain way to things, but uh yeah, it's not easy to like learn about yourself and uh I feel like when you're out there alone, like you have nobody else to rely on, so like you are like or at least for me, I'm digging deeper into my head than I can like just sitting around.
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:32.559
Like I can dig deep in my head all day long.
00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:36.800
But it's sometimes it's not like the most productive way.
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:49.039
And then when I'm riding, like doing races like that, it is like I'm sure there has to do with in your brain with like a bilateral movement and stuff like that, but uh yeah, it's very like I said, therapeutic for me.
00:35:49.119 --> 00:36:05.440
Like I can like think positively about stuff and like and then that seeps into my everyday life, and uh yeah, like you after I finish an ultra, I feel like I have a few months of time where I'm like in this state where nothing like really bothers me per se.
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:13.360
Like there is stuff that bothers me, but uh I'm able to like not ride it off, but like deal with it better.
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:28.800
Like you like on a bike race, you're always gonna have problems from day to day, like even from hour to hour, and uh you just gotta learn to like keep moving forward through it, and I feel like that's like the biggest thing it teaches me, like off the bike is just to keep moving forward and stuff.
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:30.639
But yeah.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:32.480
Yeah, I love that man.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:39.920
I heard in there, as I said what I said and processed it and heard your response, we don't give ourselves enough time.
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:42.079
It's always on to the next thing.
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:43.119
I still don't.
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:53.199
Like, that's one of my biggest downfalls is like I still like even sitting here, I'm like, like there's a race I can do in a little over a month, and I'm like, should I do it?
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:54.880
You know, like can I do it?
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:07.519
Like, or should I just like I don't know if that's like the ADHD in me that just wants to keep moving all the time and uh afraid to just sit with my thoughts on my own, but and also on the same same breath.
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:15.119
Like it is, like I said, uh it helps me process stuff a lot more and uh healthier way too.
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:25.440
Yeah, I got my journal sitting here, and uh sometimes they're notebooks where they're like legit notes, and sometimes they're journals where it's like literally like I have to brain dump some things.
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:34.320
And I've tried to find a way to get into journaling, and it it wasn't until I lost my job a couple weeks ago that I really leaned in heavily.
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:42.800
Like when I started, it really started with May when I started tapering off AlexaPro and all the weird feelings started coming up with the withdrawal symptoms.
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:47.840
I I'm up at one o'clock in the morning, I'm mentally done reading, right?
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.079
I I can't read anymore, but I can't fall asleep.
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:51.679
I was like, oh, I'll journal.
00:37:51.920 --> 00:38:00.559
And so I started journaling at those times, and now I've realized as as I've picked up from that, is that I carry kind of a notebook and I carry kind of a journal.
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:03.440
And they kind of have two different things so that way I can have the thought.
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.840
Like it'd be like, what rate should I go do in a month?
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:06.320
I don't know.
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:07.920
What rate should I go do in a month?
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:08.960
And it's out.
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:11.039
And that's I'm gonna come back to it.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:20.719
You know, either tonight, tomorrow, whatever that is, I'm gonna resurface that notebook and I'm gonna kind of reorganize all those notes again so that I can tackle them the next day or whenever whatever day they move need to move to.
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:32.880
And I think the journaling thing has really helped me in the evenings when I'm in that steward cycle of the anxieties keeping me awake and I can't just like come down right now because of this whole withdrawal thing that I'm going through.
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:40.639
And it's a real a really good place to remind myself of the windows and waves, like the windows of the high moments and the waves of the low moments.
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:45.599
And not only is that going to happen as I'm healing, uh, but it's also life.
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:49.679
Like life in and of itself has high moments and it has low moments.
00:38:49.840 --> 00:39:00.960
And yeah, as I I literally have a reel I'm gonna share later today, and it is about uh the fact that our path and the journey that we're on like isn't linear, right?
00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:06.079
Like we want to look back on it and see this like nice smooth line, but it's never gonna look like that.
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:08.719
There's gonna be those highs and there's gonna be those lows.
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:17.840
And within that, that when we can look back, be like, uh, or in the moment, it may feel like it's this like shitty super spot that's super long.
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:24.880
But two, three, four years after that, we can look back and realize, wow, I was on a journey, man, and it was a super windy path.
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.679
And you can kind of like take that with a little bit of security.
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:37.280
And I look back on again, 15 years of doing seat time, and I could beat myself up for some of the things I didn't do, but I'm also really proud of some of the things that I did do with that.
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:50.719
And I just think that like that is so interesting as we start to play with these concepts of once you start to get comfortable in your own skin and once to get comfortable with your own thoughts and you realize that like, wait a minute, I I want these for me.
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:52.800
And yeah, I don't want that for them.
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.440
Yeah, that's when we start to like really lean in.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:40:03.039
But to everything you said, I think that you should get yourself a little notebook, and anytime you have that thought and you're running around, write down a little bullet point.
00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:05.039
Pretty big at the end of the day.
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:06.559
Taking voice notes.
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:08.639
Like I uh oh, I love that, yeah.
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:09.280
Yeah.
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:20.559
I mean, I'm I've had a few ex-girlfriends that have got some pretty crazy like emotional voice notes, like just like about like what my thought processes are, like through stuff like that.
00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:32.320
But uh yeah, people close to me, like definitely, and I say people close to me, there's like three or four people that like actually know like what I'm going through in those times.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.960
Like how you just said like you want to like keep it for you.
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:37.280
That's one switch I've had over the past years.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:48.159
Like I did want to display it to more people in the past, but now I feel like I'm to a point where yeah, you can experience it with people, but they're only gonna experience it to some degree.
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:53.039
And uh I feel like even the people in the race, like they get it, but they don't actually get it.
00:40:53.199 --> 00:41:01.440
So like if I'm just happy with like dealing with it myself and like just keeping those thoughts to myself, like it's been more of a more freeing, I guess.
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:07.760
Like I don't feel like I need to share stuff with everybody, but also at the same time I uh I love sharing stuff.
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:10.719
Like that's why I love taking photos.
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:14.239
Like I love to like share stuff and uh yeah.
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:18.559
It is like a it's nice to have people to share it with for sure.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:24.000
But also you need to save some of it for yourself and like as you're not you're at the end of the day, you're the one out there doing it.
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:26.480
Like nobody else is gonna fully understand it.
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:32.559
And uh that's kind of been hard for me to get over the fact with some people.
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:35.280
Like I've tried to explain it to people and like they just don't get it.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:37.280
And uh I can't ask them to get it.
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.639
At the end of the day, to be honest, I don't really get it.
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:45.280
And uh I can't ask somebody to understand stuff like I don't understand.
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:53.519
And yeah, it is an experience for yourself, but I do like being able to give some of that back to others in whatever form that is.
00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:58.719
And I do like to I am pretty big about like writing like stuff on my laptop too.
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:09.519
Like even like coming back from uh Utah, like I I got to the airport like four or five hours early and I just started riding for like three hours before I even realized that I was like almost time to board.
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:25.519
And yeah, my brain is just like a like can always like spinning with stuff and it's hard to like get like one singular thing out, but uh yeah, like the ultras definitely focus it down on like a few things that like make me feel like I need to get off my chest per se.
00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:38.159
I will say that we probably went pretty deep and I'm okay with that, but in the long run, what was probably one of the most humorous things that happened with some of the other riders on some of the journeys you've been on this year?
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:38.800
Okay.
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:45.679
So Silk Road is like notorious for like food poisoning and uh oh.
00:42:46.079 --> 00:43:00.480
I don't I don't I don't yeah, I mean I I had it, like I had a pizza like a couple days before the race, and then like that like sparked like just diarrhea for the next like two and a half weeks of the time I was there, just like randomly.
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:12.880
But uh I definitely didn't have it as bad as some because we started the race and like we're in a peloton of like 250 people, and like we're going up like the climb the first climb, which is like 30 miles long.
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:16.719
So like the longest climb of the r of a race I've ever done in my life.
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:31.360
And uh we're like four miles in, and this guy just like starts off to the side of the road and like drops his bike and like sprints into the field, and before he can even get like his bivs down, he's just like projectile shitting across the field.
00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:38.000
And at that moment, I was like, I was like, oh like people have it way worse than me right now.
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:39.440
Way worse.
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:44.639
But uh yeah, there's there's a lot of funny moments out there.
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:51.599
Like it's you have to laugh at a lot of the stuff because it is just fucking I am very normalized to it now.
00:43:51.760 --> 00:44:05.679
Like I don't really think of like it being anything crazy, but uh at the end of the day, it is like pretty fucking crazy some of the stuff that we're doing, and uh like I've I've probably seen more grown men cry this year than I've ever seen in my entire life before.
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:10.079
Like it's not really funny, but it's like just the reality of the situation.
00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:13.280
Like it's uh Yeah, we do a lot of stupid stuff.
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:15.280
And it's just stuff you wouldn't normally do.
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:21.280
Like just I think back to like there's some places in Greece that we were walking like these ridgelines.
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:25.280
And there was one night that we just had this crazy thunderstorm.
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.639
And uh I do not like thunderstorms.
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:32.880
And I remember we get doing the top of this, like this climb, and it took us like three hours to walk up.
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:36.079
And uh there was a guy at the top, and he's like he knew my name.
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:38.639
He's like sort of like sniffling, say, Mac, I'm scared.
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:41.119
I'm like, dude, fuck yeah, I am too right now.
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:42.400
Like it was like, yeah.
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:43.519
Hug it out, bro.
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:44.239
Hug it out.
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:48.800
Yeah, well, we had to like just keep going, but uh yeah.
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:53.920
The one guy with diarrhea at Curse's name was like pretty crazy, like whoa.
00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:57.360
Like we're like in a totally different part of the world.
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.320
Like that's the furthest I've ever traveled away from home.
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:13.039
Uh just getting there is comical enough in itself, like taking a taxi with six other riders, seven other riders that has no AC for like five or six hours, uh all the bikes packed into the van.
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:18.800
Like that country in itself, race or not, is an experience.
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:23.599
Like nothing ever goes to plan, but it sort of always works out, which is a cool thing.
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:25.199
And uh Yeah.
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:27.679
Trying to think like other funny stuff.
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.320
There is like a lot of seriousness to stuff that happens.
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:32.079
Like in Greece, there was a guy that got stuck.
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:39.679
We had to go by these like beehives, like the bee farms, and there's like just stacks of like the bee houses like on next to the road.
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:52.800
And uh I guess like the promoter scouted it, and when he scouted it, they weren't there, but during the race they were there, and there was a guy that got stung by like two or three in his neck, and he's like deathly allergic to like bees.
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:58.880
And uh I remember seeing him, I was like, oh dude, he's not doing good, like genuinely like concerned for him.
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:11.199
Like, didn't know if like we needed to call somebody or what, but uh yeah, pretty heavy stuff, and then like he ends up finishing, so it's like it's cool to like see people like that was one of the harder things for me, like during the races, like seeing people quit.
00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:19.679
Like that was uh because I've had to do that before and I know that feeling, but uh you don't travel all the way across the world just to want to quit.
00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:22.880
Like nobody's nobody's wanting to do that, you know.
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:30.239
So like to see people like have to give up on their on their dreams and like their hopes, and uh that was pretty tough for me.
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:40.320
Uh and then you also like one thing I told one of my coaches last year at the end of the year after the divide was like I want to be around more like-minded people.
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:44.159
And uh damn if I didn't accomplish that this year.
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:59.039
Like the guy who ended up winning Silk Road, I had coffee with him for an hour or two, like before the race, like just talking and like just it's like I said earlier, like it's nice to feel like I'm not an outcast.
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:13.360
And like there are people that like get like my type of thinking in like the stuff that we like to do, but uh yeah, I definitely accomplished like be able to like say that I surrounded myself with more like-minded people this year, and that feels good.
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:14.800
But uh yeah.
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:21.119
When you were talking about grown men crying, it brought me back to the marathon in 2023.
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:25.519
So Dallas Marathon, you run from downtown to the lake.
00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:31.280
And again, I was telling you, I had my music on, it was kind of low, but there's a song uh by The Plot in You.
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:32.880
It's called Left Behind.
00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:46.079
And I always, though I know a lot of the words, it's one of those things where just like any song, when you hear the words and you process the words, the song means something to you, and it probably doesn't mean anything for the reason that they actually wrote it, right?
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:47.679
But it's contextual, right?
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:55.119
And to me, in that moment when that song came on, I just started crying.
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.320
And it was the weirdest thing because I like wasn't sad.
00:47:58.639 --> 00:48:09.599
I was actually recognizing the fact that of the man I had left behind from like who I was to who I was in the moment.
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:18.320
And now that was super interesting, and I'm sure it looked very strange if anybody looked hard enough and I'm like, ha ha ha ha, like there's like you know, derillity.
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:19.519
No, I get that.
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:27.440
But I'm so much more in tune now that I understand that you we don't ever leave that person behind.
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:29.360
That person's always there, the person we were.
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:30.400
We've always evolved.
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:34.000
Like that is just part of the foundation that we've built, right?
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:51.280
And so what happens is reality-wise, yes, we might reshape the foundation, we might try to chip away a couple things, but in the long run, as long as we're building a stronger foundation upon the things that we've learned, like whoever that man was before to the man that I'm becoming now, you're always gonna have those memories.
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:53.360
Like that is who you were.
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:54.960
That may not be who you are now.
00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.840
And so I think it's interesting again, the way that it's I've evolved and the way that I think about these things.
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:04.159
But how does one get into gravel?
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:07.599
Like, where the hell, like what are we doing here?
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:12.719
I mean, I've done more mountain bike races than I have done gravel races, but uh Okay.
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.119
And that's a great question.
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:18.320
Is that like, are all these races considered gravel races?
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:19.840
Are they considered mountain bike races?
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:21.280
Like, how does this all fit?
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:29.840
I mean, theoretically you could ride a gravel bike on the races, and people do, but uh God bless them.
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.000
Like I get I would get beat the fuck up.
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:39.679
Like that's 90% of the reasoning why I ride like a mountain bike and I ride a full suspension mountain bike, is just to like save my body.
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:53.280
And uh Yeah, like I I can barely feel my my fingers, my toes, I don't really feel so like if I'm feeling that on a mountain bike, I'm definitely gonna I'm not gonna be able to zip up a jacket after the fact if I'm riding a gravel bike.
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:58.320
But uh yeah, there as far as like gravel riding, like I love gravel riding.
00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:10.800
Like it's mostly like what I do around my house, but uh I've done one gravel race, like to be honest, anything that's like short, I just and I say short, I guess it's under 24 hours, like or 12.
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:11.920
We'll say 12 hours.
00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:18.159
Like that uh I don't like shorter efforts, and it's I've always sort of been like that.
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:21.599
Like the longer it is, the better I feel at the end.
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:27.760
Uh yeah screwing up riding moto, like it was just one of those things, like you sort of did a cross drain.
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:45.360
So I had like a road bike from a road bike and a mountain bike from like like 16 or 17, just sort of always did that as like a a side thing, but uh yeah, never got fully into it until I broke my femur, and like after I broke my femur, I was like, okay, like started out with road riding.
00:50:45.519 --> 00:51:01.760
I still had like a pretty nice road bike, so I just continued on with that and uh ended up moving to North Carolina and like of course around here, like I live in like one of the best spots to like ride mountain bikes on the east coast, so uh course to get another mountain bike and like start riding off-road more.
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:07.599
And uh yeah, it is one of those things I feel like it really depends on where you live.
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:11.760
Like if I lived in Georgia, I probably wouldn't be into cycling, you know.
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:22.480
Uh but where I live at now is like I really am blessed with where I live because I can literally ride from my front door and be alone in thirty minutes.
00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:25.519
You know, like don't have to see anybody for hours.
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:36.480
Or like where I grew up in Georgia, like you're dealing with dickhead drivers and like people are on their phones and just like it's scary, and I don't like that road aspect of it anymore.
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:42.400
So I feel like the gravel side is nice because you get away from all the hustle and bustle of stuff.
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:52.079
And uh in some ways it is more dangerous because you are more alone, but in a lot of ways it isn't more dangerous, and yeah, I feel like like I said, it's just one of those things it depends on where you live at.
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:54.000
Some places might not have any gravel roads at all.
00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:56.880
So I mean, like, what's the point of having a gravel bike?
00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:01.920
But uh other places like people in Kansas, like that's a lot of what they have.
00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:06.559
And uh yeah, it just depends on where you live, to me at least.
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:07.840
What's next, my dude?
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:09.360
Discriminate any bikes.
00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:10.239
I love it.
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:10.719
I don't know.
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:12.559
It sounded like you hate everybody.
00:52:13.840 --> 00:52:14.880
I love I'll ride.
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:24.159
I mean, I have a road bike, a gravel bike, a mountain bike, but I'm tend to mostly ride the mountain bike because if I want to go somewhere, I can always get to it on the mountain bike.
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:31.039
Like I can always I can take the most fun path or most like obscure way to get there was like you're on a road bike, you're stuck to it.
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:35.119
You know, like you're not really you're not really getting off-road, even though I'll try.
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:38.719
But uh yeah, it is more fun to ride a mountain bike than me.
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:39.599
Nice.
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:41.440
I understand, and I agree with you.
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:43.599
My brother-in-law won't, but I will.
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:47.599
He also is single speed for gravel, and I'm like, you're an idiot.
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:49.039
Like, we've got gears on purpose.
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:50.320
Like, what are we doing here?
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:51.840
That's what people say, I'm crazy.
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:54.000
I'm like, you've never met a single speeder before.
00:52:54.239 --> 00:53:03.280
Like I tried riding a couple yeah, when I was still racing mountain bikes a lot, I tried ri uh racing a couple single speeds at cross-country, you know, or even riding.
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:04.880
I was like, why am I doing this?
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:06.079
This is stupid.
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:09.920
There's people that do tour divide and like the mountain races on single speeds.
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:17.679
And I'm like my brother-in-law was one that tried this year, and unfortunately, he got bronchitis and had to pull out, but he's already trying to think about where he make it to.
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:22.719
So oh, I think some one of the bigger cities, I think it was Helena, unfortunately.
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:26.559
It's like he like was like a couple days in, yeah, and had to pull out there.
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:28.400
But I want to say it was Helena.
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:31.679
Montana's a tough state, but uh yeah, yeah.
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:33.840
I think all of them are tough, Mac.
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:36.239
I think all when you go through Montana.
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:44.480
I think it's like as far as like the mileage and like the climbing goes and like the the terrain, Montana is like, yeah.
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:47.840
I always heard a saying, like, if you can make it through Montana, you can do the whole thing.
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:58.639
And uh after doing the whole thing, if you can make it through Montana, like that was like a big like check off of list because like the riding there is hard and it comes really early on.
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:06.480
So it's like you don't have much to to warm yourself up, and if you're already sick going into it, like it's not a place where you're gonna recover at, that's for sure.
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:10.719
Yeah, and that's what's so interesting to me because I watch what you guys eat.
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:14.159
You know, you guys post stories about all this stuff, and it's just gas station crap.
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:16.639
And I I'm some and I get it.
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:20.960
I you're unsupported, you have to have calories because you need fuel for the body.
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:22.719
Like I understand that aspect of it.
00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:29.840
But on the other side of that, the immune system has to function and the you're not getting any micronutrients in that.
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:47.119
And so I told him, I was like, I'm not telling you to go start taking AG1 right away, but I was like, I think that in that, like those weeks leading up to it, you need to almost be more thinking about your immune system than you do deterring an aspect because you need to build up your immune system though that before you hit something like a tor.
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:57.679
And that's where I think like fruits, veggies, all that kinds of stuff, some uh like probiotic foods, things that are gonna really help the gut, so that the gut can then help the immune system for the entire body.
00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:02.880
And I just always get a lot of pushback from anybody I talk to about that because they're like, well, that's not what anybody else does.
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:07.599
I was like, just because they don't share it in their stories doesn't mean that they're not doing it.
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:10.320
And if they're not doing it, maybe that's your advantage.
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:11.360
You know what I mean?
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:20.880
Definitely for the divide specifically, I took like a week's worth of uh some type of like recovery drink at night.
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:24.400
And like, I don't know if that's helping me or if it's hurting me.
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:42.000
It's definitely not hurting me, but uh, or if it's even working, but uh yeah, I took that and uh yeah, I have a big proponent on like especially for something like the divide, coming in like pretty overweight, not pretty overweight, but you don't want to come in underweight, that's for sure.
00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:48.639
Because like I didn't weigh myself before and after that, but I can just look at myself and I could tell I probably lost 15 pounds.
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:53.280
Like it was it was Skyler Howells is the same thing before every rally.
00:55:53.360 --> 00:56:05.280
He's like, I have at least 10x 10 extra pounds on me going in because of the fact that it's like you know you're not gonna be able to eat enough, and that if you can use those that fat for energy reserves later, like let's pack it on, you know.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:07.760
I'm big about like yeah.
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:08.719
Go ahead.
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:12.400
No, I was just gonna say we're coming to the end, so what is next?
00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:13.679
What are the last thoughts?
00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:17.280
What didn't I ask you that you're like, holy shit, I need to get this off my chest.
00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:19.440
I honestly don't know what's next.
00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:23.360
Uh yeah, that is kind of fun because there is stuff that I do want to do.
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:28.079
Obviously, like Silk Road definitely has to be done at some point.
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:38.400
Um I don't know if that's next year or when, but uh Yeah, I definitely that's definitely at the top of my list.
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:40.400
There's stuff in the state that I want to do.
00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:44.400
Uh to be honest, there's stuff that I want to put on my own.
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:50.400
So like I just want to like I don't know what this next year is gonna be, but uh there'll definitely be something.
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:55.519
Because I don't foresee myself ever stopping doing these things until like I physically like can't.
00:56:55.679 --> 00:57:05.119
It'll probably evolve and change over time, but yeah, like the amount of like growth I've gotten out of it, I can't like turn my back on that.
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:06.880
So I'm definitely gonna be doing some.
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:09.360
Probably need to give myself more rest though.
00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:15.519
Like that's probably like the like the short-term goal is like to rest a little bit because I do feel smoked right now.
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:20.559
And uh yeah, I got some blood work done, so we'll see what the blood work says.
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:24.639
But I'm I'm suspecting some low numbers on some stuff when it comes back.
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:30.320
I'm glad to hear that you're smart enough to know that that's that's something that's a tool that we have in our tool basket, right?
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:39.360
When we're feeling these kinds of things, we can go to people that have ability to get data, right, to be able to tell us at least a baseline level where we're at, where we need to be, things of that nature.
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:44.800
So, well, dude, I really appreciate you taking the time to share some of your stories to be a human, right?
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:49.760
To let us understand what it feels like to grow and to be out there with your own thoughts and your own skin and things like that.
00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:53.760
And uh, I just look forward to continuing to watch your journey and watching you grow, man.
00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:55.599
I appreciate the opportunity to come on.
00:57:55.679 --> 00:58:01.840
I know I feel like it's been a long time in the making, but yeah, to be honest, like I feel like just I'm just Mac.
00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:10.480
So I don't really like think that people like want to hear about stuff like this, but uh yeah, it's cool to talk about it with people other than like the people in my little circle.
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:12.400
So yeah, thank you for having me on.
00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:13.280
You're right.
00:58:13.519 --> 00:58:16.400
And both of us have been on a journey the past year.
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:20.800
When we tried to do this, both of us everybody's everybody's on a journey.
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:22.480
Everybody's on a journey, you know?
00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:24.880
Like so that's okay.
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:27.360
We did it now because that's when it needed to happen.
00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:28.079
Yep.
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:29.920
No better time than the current time.
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:31.199
Uh thanks again, man.
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:32.559
Yeah, no, thank you.
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:36.880
Thank you very much for tuning in to this episode of Deepish Conversations.
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:42.639
I really appreciate Mac for taking the time and working through the past year and a half journey that he's been on.
00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:47.679
If there's anything that you took away from this episode, please hit us in the comments so we can discuss.
00:58:47.840 --> 00:58:51.440
If you've got ideas for other guests that should be on, please let me know.
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:54.079
Other than that, share with a friend, subscribe for more.
00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:55.119
I'll see you next time.
