S21E12 The Commitment Conundrum w/ Steve Budd

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[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I'm U.S. You and I'm Julie Craftscheck.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We're active dateers turned dating insiders here to dive into everything modern dating and relationships.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to dateable.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Hello friends!
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[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to another episode of Databall.
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[SPEAKER_03]: No honey moons to report on this week.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Sadly, I'll let you win on a second one.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I wish I, okay, like, I feel like kind of stupid even saying this.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I think I would have rolled my eyes at someone like this 10 years ago.
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[SPEAKER_03]: People say there's like a post-honey moon blues or like post-wedding blues.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm definitely experiencing it.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it sounds so lame though, because it's like you met your person, you had the wedding, like all the things that like I thought I wanted and obviously still want and I'm happy that that happened, but there's definitely like this kind of return to baseline that is a little tough to navigate.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's so normal to feel that, because your life is so occupied with planning, planning the wedding, planning the honeymoon, now that it's over, it's like building up, and then now it's like, okay, now living the day to day life.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I heard this really great rule, someone said,
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[SPEAKER_02]: What's the rule of thirds, okay, in any accomplishment or milestone you have a third of it you're going to feel incredible about a third of it you're going to feel incredibly sad about and a third of it you'll you'll feel whatever about so it's like it's okay to have such polarizing feelings because it's very natural.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think a piece of it, too, is that it's masked some of the other stuff I need to figure out because I was so like preoccupied with what I played again, you know, all the organization that comes from that, it allowed me to like shift focus and now that that's gone, it's like,
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[SPEAKER_03]: The light has been like shine back into the areas that I actually like really need to figure out and it's daunting and I think too It's like especially.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I've just I know idea just like take a step back But it's like I would just like think of the other day.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh my god If we want to have kids it needs to be soon if we want to get a dog it needs to be soon We live in a one bedroom apartment like how we could have fit all this stuff.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I was like looking up TikTok So like how you like have your child in a one bedroom apartment
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's doable.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It is, but I'm just like, oh my god, it's just a lot all at once.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what am I doing with my career at life?
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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, all this stuff.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So anyways, and if I go back to like a full-time job, you got to do it before you're like visibly pregnant, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Or no, it's going to hire you.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I know.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Bye then.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's a problem with our society, it's always like, once you get somewhere, yeah, questions always like what's I know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Once you have kids, it's like, when you're going to have the second one and once you have the second one, it's like, when are you going to get on the wait list for the best school right area?
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's never ending.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It isn't.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think I just need to take a deep breath.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's slow down, but I do think that, you know, we've talked a lot.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We had Dr. Lori Santos on the podcast, and she talked about like the arrival fallacy of like once you actually arrive like you think that
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, all the happiness will be there.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We've talked about this in our book too when we had Dr. Jenny Taze on our podcast too.
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[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of experts have quoted this of just like, there is this baseline happiness that we have.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we think all of these external events is gonna raise it.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe they do momentarily, but it always brings us back to our baseline.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So clearly the true, you know.
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[SPEAKER_03]: The true enlightenment in it all is to find that within and not rely on these milestones and external moments.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But to celebrate when you want to celebrate, I think like I always go the opposite way where I'm like, Okay, I can be happy for a day, but then I have to get back to level setting, but I think you have to allow yourself that time to just relish.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is a major milestone in my life and I'm going to just live in it, marinade in it for a little bit longer.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think like two, I think it's like for me, I'm like, oh, it's over, move on, but yeah, like you could marinate longer, and clearly like appreciate that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I think I've been having that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I've been like working on our like wedding photo books and stuff.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like, forgive me back.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah,
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[SPEAKER_03]: That's the benefit of photos and all of that is to get transported back in Clirk living day-to-day with my best friend and partner like all of that again I'm not trying to like take that for granted.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's just something that I mean honestly I think it's really just showing some other voids that I have go with on
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[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But that's going to happen.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Whether you get married or not, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: You got to dress up eventually.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You have to face the music of life.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You do.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Life.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Always.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Life.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And our guest today has really good rest.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and face the music with his own commitment issues or challenges.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I guess you could challenge us.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because we all have challenges when it comes to relationships and his maybe this idea of commitment.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But we met Steve Bud when we were doing our talk at Los Pacitos Community College and he is one of the professors there and he performed right before us.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And when I say perform he truly performed because he had no one man show.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I looked at you and I was like, are we in the right place?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like we're literally getting up there to like answer questions about our book how to be dateable and he's giving like a full on performance with like different voices and scenes and like a whole acting thing and guess it was a variety that we were in the right place.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We were, in his one-man show, sort of blew my mind.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's called Oye, what they said about love.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It started out kind of shocking because there's like sexual content in there and it gets a little extra hell of shit.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But he's, you know, one of the professors they're so july and I were looking at you to their like, it's just okay.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's just okay to be said.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But the story really just unravels in such a beautiful way.
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[SPEAKER_02]: depicts sort of all the different POVs that Steve has experienced his lifetime about commitment and love and marriage and how much he wanted it so bad and how terribly he had actually implemented a lot of these thoughts about commitment.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So after this one man performance we were we were both like he would be a really interesting guest on our show.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I know, I love five to guess of this type of unexpected serendipitous type of way, like who would have thought that we would, you know, find someone, but I think there were a couple things that stood out.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, first of all, he's a great storyteller.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So I think people will love that aspect.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But the other part is it was before our book talk about how to be dateable, our book, which has the dating archetypes.
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[SPEAKER_03]: quiz that many of you have taken already and if you haven't, you should go to our website right now how to be dateable and go take that quiz because it's really invaluable info.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But as we are watching both UA and I were like Steve is a dreamer through and through.
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[SPEAKER_03]: He is living proof of this archetype, you know, the one that just wants love and like has this very romantic vision of love
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[SPEAKER_03]: and almost like it's getting in his own way and also he should be leading it to it at the same time.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Kind of what we say about the archetypes they are here.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, biggest asset and then also maybe the doubt fall of why things aren't falling into place the way you thought they would be.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So,
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[SPEAKER_03]: it really tidied well and I'm glad that we actually went deeper with him on this podcast because he is a performer.
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[SPEAKER_03]: He's funny.
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[SPEAKER_03]: All of that was in his performance, but I feel like we got really vulnerable with him on this episode of just like
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[SPEAKER_03]: Beneath all that like what is it that's really holding him back from being in the relationship that he says he wants, he says he wants to be married, he wants all these things, but has had multiple opportunities for it to come to fruition, but hasn't been able to move forward.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I guess if you're feeling that like commitment phobia yourself or like many of us have dated somewhat like this where you know they're all in they're ready to go and then just suddenly they can't I've been there very much so and it's so relatable because he is a
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[SPEAKER_02]: English professor.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So he is magnificent with words.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I can see how you can many of us do this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You get so tied up in the storytelling of dating that you lose sight of what you're actually trying to get out of dating.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And we've had so many of you listeners and our friends be like, oh, I have this great story to tell you, or my love life should be a movie, or I should write a book about my dates.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And our answer is always like, that's not the point, though.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The point is not all the stories you've collected, the point is what have you learned and what are you trying to accomplish?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think in our conversation, through his beautiful, very visual words, I think we were able to get to what does Steve Bud actually want.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and we actually drew some parallels on a very popular episode that we did a couple seasons ago at this point.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm blanking out what season it was, but it was with U.A.'
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[SPEAKER_03]: 's friend who's a return guess Ryan Van Duiser and the look it up.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so we had a little bit of a... Yeah, we had him on...
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[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, here we go.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So it was our first episode we had him on with season eight episode dieteed quest for love.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Then the last episode we had was season 18, so 10 seasons later.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Episode 12, season 18, episode 12, are...
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[SPEAKER_03]: long-term relationships for everyone.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Was the question that we were posing.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And again, he was that type and look, they're two different people.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like sometimes I would kind of conflate the, you know, it's easy to go there, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: To like see something in someone else.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I do want to play down two different people own stuff going on, different minds, that's all that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: There was a similarity in the sense that they wanted love.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, they weren't the type of guys that were like, no, I don't want to be in a relationship.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Because sometimes commitment, phobic people will just tell you right out.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, they're like, I don't want to be in a relationship.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we sometimes choose not to listen to them.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So there's that type.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Then there's the type that like pretends they do to kind of like, womanize or like play the field.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And they're not that either.
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[SPEAKER_03]: They're like this third bucket of they, they want it.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But there's like something inside.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, blocking them that they can't in like the capacity just isn't there and like you could say maybe they just have them at the right person but when it becomes like a pattern over many many years and I think both of them will admit this I'm not like saying anything against them they both flat out admitted like this is a me thing like there's something within me and that was why we pose that question like our long-term relationships for everyone.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it gets so tricky because this bucket of people fall fast.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So if you're dating someone like this, you're like, wow, this is like my forever person or this is my person because they feel so deeply and so strongly about me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not false.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They truly feel
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[SPEAKER_02]: those feelings, but at some point those feelings do not overtake their rational side, or I don't even know like this other side of them that challenges this feeling of love, and then that's when these relationships end.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And with Ryan Van Duiser, I think Tempilla is like on the receiving end,
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[SPEAKER_02]: having been in relationships like that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's tragic that you are receiving the oldest love in the beginning and it's not love bombing either.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's also not it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not delicious.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not delicious.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They're not trying to manipulate.
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[SPEAKER_02]: These are true authentic feelings.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So to feel all that love in the beginning and to one day have this person be like, I no longer
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[SPEAKER_02]: feel this way about you or I can't, I just want the capacity to move forward with you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It is heartbreaking, so tragic.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I feel like this happened with my ex, the on and off again one.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I feel like it was a similar feeling of like, I just do not have the capacity.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I, like, I want to be with you, but I just can't do it.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's why it was on to get off again, because it was like hopeful thinking each time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And then it just would inevitably get to that same point where it really required like the effort and like pushing yourself to be in a relationship, a relationship is a choice every day and it's uncomfortable and it's hard sometimes and especially when you're like facing your own stuff and a lot of people don't want to do it or they feel like they can't do it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: No, and you'll learn, it's real listen to the Rhyme and Dozer episodes, real listen to this one, if you've already listened to this one a few times, you'll learn on the receiving end, you cannot push someone's capacity for love.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It is not your, it's not in your skill set, it's also not your responsibility to do so.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So even though we're saying like these guys, they have these authentic feelings and they feel, they truly feel the love.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It is also on you to say I'm walking away because they think their capacity with me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It is not on you to say, but the feelings are there.
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[SPEAKER_03]: No, it doesn't matter.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's the biggest learning and that actually is why I like to get episodes like this.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, first of all, it's like good to hear the psyche of someone to understand.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully, it's also therapeutic for them too to like get this out and just start talking about it.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I mean, again, like if someone's authentic state is to be on their own and like all for that, like there's no shame in that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: What I hope though is like that people aren't like settling for being on their own because like they can't push the right thing.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Right, so I hope that this also gives the people that we have on the podcast the clarity and you know, you And I would respect every guest and we want to hear out their story because I think it's important for all of us right to like get to a place where we can talk and
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[SPEAKER_03]: like actually rectify what's going on and there's a reason why shock therapy is so helpful right to like get it out but then also for the people that have had this happen to them where they fall in for people like this.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like if I could take one thing back in my love life it would be these like feelings like I wasn't good enough because someone couldn't commit or couldn't make that next step with me because I look back on a lot of my
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[SPEAKER_03]: I think all of them are still single, which I don't know what that says about the people I was choosing.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But it also tells me, like, it was it me.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It just like was them, like whether that's their choice or they had a block or whatever it was, like it's it's not personal.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's so easy to take it personally.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then there, a lot of them were honest.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they like, I totally hit my capacity, or I just can't move forward.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I can't take our relationship to the next level.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so many of us see that as a green light to go, like, push, just be patient and, you know, stay around or try to help them through this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And nope, does not end well.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard when it started off strong.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, and it's like it always starts out magical.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just like strong feelings.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I've never felt this way about anybody before this feeling.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Right, like you're so different, you're so special.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And those are all true, but it doesn't uphold the feelings that come later.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And like, look, we're not going to solve commitment, phobia, in this episode.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately, we're not.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I thought we should have this like break there and all of a sudden he's calling his accent.
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[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, I'm ready.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do it.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately, we did not have that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But I think there's something still valuable of just like understanding and giving that grace like to others, but also to yourself if this is to happen.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's not personal.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I just want to say this too because I think if we're trying to take this from an enlightened point of view, your capacity for commitment is on a spectrum.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And these two people we've spoken to just happened to be on the earlier end of the spectrum, or they're like, I can't commit past this point.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But we all have a point where we are pushed to the limit of our commitment capacity.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And we say,
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[SPEAKER_02]: pass this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just, it's just where you are on the spectrum, and some people are just earlier in that stage, right?
17:41.601 --> 17:45.387
[SPEAKER_02]: So we all could hit that capacity at some point in our lives.
17:45.707 --> 17:49.332
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I think too a lot of it obviously is timing.
17:49.352 --> 17:56.442
[SPEAKER_03]: I think what's interesting with these people is like we are hitting them a little later on in life, and there's the patterns that have emerged.
17:56.582 --> 17:57.283
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
17:57.263 --> 18:01.703
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's just, you could argue again, and this is the thing that we have with Ryan too.
18:01.743 --> 18:04.274
[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to know, like, have they just not met the right people?
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's possible.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
18:09.429 --> 18:09.890
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say, it's not, yeah, they have not met.
18:15.481 --> 18:16.503
[SPEAKER_02]: They've, no.
18:17.285 --> 18:23.418
[SPEAKER_02]: The right person will come along when their capacity for commitment expands.
18:23.498 --> 18:23.839
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
18:23.959 --> 18:29.751
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let us know what you think always love the conversation, especially if you are a Spotify listener.
18:29.731 --> 18:31.315
[SPEAKER_03]: Or even if you're not, go over there.
18:31.435 --> 18:34.562
[SPEAKER_03]: You can leave comments if you have a Spotify account.
18:34.643 --> 18:37.790
[SPEAKER_03]: It's fun to see the comments on the specific episodes.
18:38.051 --> 18:42.601
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course, if you're on Apple podcasts, you can leave it in the comments of a review.
18:42.641 --> 18:44.746
[SPEAKER_03]: We love reading these.
18:45.187 --> 18:48.094
[SPEAKER_03]: And especially when it's like, you know, just quote,
18:48.074 --> 18:50.518
[SPEAKER_03]: So, it's good to hear what other people think, right?
18:50.559 --> 18:54.205
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, we're just talking to each other, so it's good to have a conversation.
18:54.225 --> 18:55.828
[SPEAKER_03]: I miss the good old days.
18:55.848 --> 18:57.852
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to say the good old days of the pandemic.
18:57.972 --> 19:07.069
[SPEAKER_03]: But the good old days when we had the Facebook group, that was very active during the pandemic, where every Sunday they would get together.
19:07.109 --> 19:10.255
[SPEAKER_03]: People would get together and discuss the episodes.
19:10.495 --> 19:11.517
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think if we can,
19:11.497 --> 19:19.409
[SPEAKER_03]: Emulate that even on social media and Spotify or wherever, like, that's better than nothing.
19:19.849 --> 19:23.154
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like our own little book club, but it's a podcast club.
19:23.394 --> 19:24.336
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
19:24.356 --> 19:29.023
[SPEAKER_03]: And speaking of books, yeah, that's what we need to go out and get how to be dateable.
19:29.323 --> 19:30.645
[SPEAKER_03]: And the same goes there.
19:30.785 --> 19:37.555
[SPEAKER_03]: If you've read the book, please please leave us a review on Amazon wherever you bought it, actually.
19:37.535 --> 19:45.046
[SPEAKER_03]: Amazon tends to be the easiest, but if you bought it on Barnes and Noble, you can even go to their website or on Audible, you can go there.
19:45.086 --> 19:48.110
[SPEAKER_03]: Leave us some feedback of what you thought of the book.
19:48.270 --> 19:50.513
[SPEAKER_03]: It really, like worms are hard.
19:50.553 --> 19:56.642
[SPEAKER_03]: We got a really good review the other day that we saw on Amazon that made us both really happy.
19:56.662 --> 20:02.410
[SPEAKER_03]: So please leave that and let us know because we've put a lot of time in effort at all of this stuff.
20:02.911 --> 20:04.673
[SPEAKER_03]: It's good to see the feedback loop.
20:04.653 --> 20:06.695
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can follow this person's footsteps.
20:06.895 --> 20:14.944
[SPEAKER_02]: Their review says, I heard this duo speak and take questions at a library in Southern California, which is probably Santa Monica.
20:14.964 --> 20:21.871
[SPEAKER_02]: I listened to way more than my share of dating seminars and coaches and have heard a lot of contradictory advice.
20:22.052 --> 20:24.634
[SPEAKER_02]: These women bring a more nuanced, fresh view.
20:24.654 --> 20:26.056
[SPEAKER_02]: Not your mother's advice.
20:26.376 --> 20:28.078
[SPEAKER_02]: They narrate the audible version.
20:28.358 --> 20:29.259
[SPEAKER_02]: It's worth a listen.
20:29.620 --> 20:30.080
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
20:30.380 --> 20:30.981
[SPEAKER_02]: So good.
20:30.961 --> 20:31.543
[SPEAKER_03]: Awesome.
20:31.924 --> 20:32.225
[SPEAKER_03]: Cool.
20:32.626 --> 20:37.299
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, before we get into it with Steve, let's take a minute to hear from our sponsors.
20:37.780 --> 20:41.410
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's talk about the commitment conundrum.
20:47.144 --> 20:58.339
[SPEAKER_02]: We very much enjoyed your one-man show and it's so nice to have you on our show now to talk about your one-man show and what's inspired you to do that because you've never been married.
20:58.800 --> 20:59.701
[SPEAKER_02]: You still want to.
21:00.062 --> 21:00.382
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: As far as we're concerned, yes, okay.
21:03.046 --> 21:08.974
[SPEAKER_02]: And you've been performing a solo show called What they said about love now titled, Oye what they said about love.
21:09.034 --> 21:09.415
[SPEAKER_02]: Love it.
21:10.957 --> 21:12.679
[SPEAKER_02]: About your search for the one.
21:12.659 --> 21:19.009
[SPEAKER_02]: with interviews, with married couples, and how they met, married, made things work, or maybe things that didn't work.
21:19.390 --> 21:23.376
[SPEAKER_02]: And you, Steve, are still hoping to find that special someone.
21:23.716 --> 21:24.638
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Datable.
21:24.878 --> 21:26.140
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me.
21:26.160 --> 21:26.962
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great to be here.
21:27.182 --> 21:31.028
[SPEAKER_03]: We're so excited because you know, like we like UAV, we love your show.
21:31.268 --> 21:36.777
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think there's just so much to unpack, too, of just, you know, looking at relationships,
21:36.757 --> 21:44.129
[SPEAKER_03]: over time and then wanting to, you know, meet that person that ends up being the one you marry and longing for it, but still feeling hopeful.
21:44.249 --> 21:47.594
[SPEAKER_03]: I think hope is the key part that really keeps people going.
21:47.755 --> 21:58.191
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe you can start by sharing a bit about just your relationship history over time and kind of what stood out to you and I know that's a lot of years to unpack.
21:58.211 --> 22:00.275
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't have to go to everyone, but high level.
22:00.495 --> 22:03.540
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm saying this could take several hours if you want.
22:03.520 --> 22:06.866
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like a therapy center.
22:07.107 --> 22:08.028
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it.
22:08.309 --> 22:08.710
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:08.730 --> 22:10.974
[SPEAKER_00]: I was on my relationship history.
22:11.014 --> 22:22.034
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I've had some significant relationships, but the longest, well, I had one relationship that ended a couple years ago that was kind of often on for like ten years, ten or eleven years.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's my longest, but it was so often on.
22:24.819 --> 22:26.743
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to know exactly how long it was.
22:26.723 --> 22:53.524
[SPEAKER_00]: But before that I guess the most serious relationships I had lasted like max two years year and a half so yeah I've been with people who I've seemed to have gotten since I like in the last 30 years since I was in my early 30s I have been with some women who were like they knew that they were ready to get married You know and so like I think they had sort of decided that the next guy was gonna be the one and I was that next guy So I was the one
22:53.504 --> 23:05.677
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was all that pressure in a way in those relationships that this had to work out a certain way and I needed to get on board and there was like a certain amount of time that maybe I had to figure that out or not.
23:05.977 --> 23:11.383
[SPEAKER_00]: And there were a lot of great things in those relationships but I think the pressure was something that I was never comfortable with.
23:11.623 --> 23:20.372
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there were like three times three distinct relationships we had that are breaking up and then that woman got married like
23:20.352 --> 23:23.137
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, yeah, they're like the good luck Chuck.
23:23.157 --> 23:23.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:23.678 --> 23:24.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
23:24.359 --> 23:24.639
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
23:24.659 --> 23:32.072
[SPEAKER_02]: So if people can do the math, you said in the last 30 years, when you're in your early 30s, so can we reveal your age, you're in your 60s.
23:32.152 --> 23:32.372
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Looking back on these relationships, were you always aligned to marriage?
23:37.561 --> 23:40.386
[SPEAKER_02]: Were you always thinking I want to get married eventually?
23:40.366 --> 23:53.875
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think probably from a young age, I was assumed I would get married eventually I assumed and I wanted and like probably with at least, you know, by the time I hit my late 20s, I think it was something I hope would happen and wanted it to happen.
23:54.216 --> 24:00.990
[SPEAKER_00]: So then I was with these women who were talking about it and I knew that it was something they wanted and I wanted to want it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: as well and at times I was convinced this was the in fact I even got engaged officially to one of those women Okay, this is like when I was 41 so over 20 years ago I asked this woman Jewish woman.
24:13.065 --> 24:19.953
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Jewish and Hence the my show boy what they said about love It's just a joke.
24:19.973 --> 24:21.515
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh That shows a Jewish take.
24:21.695 --> 24:22.256
[SPEAKER_04]: I got it.
24:22.276 --> 24:22.716
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't worry.
24:22.736 --> 24:23.157
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Jewish.
24:23.337 --> 24:24.058
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah
24:24.038 --> 24:29.124
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, always just a great word in general.
24:29.144 --> 24:48.088
[SPEAKER_00]: Indeed, indeed it is, I guess it's coming to the American Lexicon by now, but yeah, this woman, when I was, I asked her to marry me, she said yes and then I kind of got scared pretty quickly, it wasn't sure and she gave me like, she was my age and she was divorced and she really wanted to like get married by a house, have a kid.
24:48.068 --> 25:05.200
[SPEAKER_00]: and she was still hoping she could have a kid so that biological clock was ticking pretty loudly sometimes to a deafening level and so that when she gave me a certain amount of time and then I guess when we hit the like a year and a half more we had been together yet but like a year and a half
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[SPEAKER_00]: And about what it was about five months, I think, after I had asked her to marry me, she said yes, although I did so without a ring, by the way, which I think says, which I think says something, yeah.
25:16.535 --> 25:24.606
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was okay with that, what also also says so, but I told her I needed more time, and she said she couldn't give it to me, and that was the end of the relationship.
25:24.586 --> 25:27.372
[SPEAKER_00]: and she got married to someone else, I think, about a year later.
25:27.592 --> 25:31.540
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but it's so fascinating to me with all this, is that you want to get married.
25:31.981 --> 25:32.081
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:32.101 --> 25:36.670
[SPEAKER_03]: But like, you keep saying, like, pressure, it's too much, like, yeah, I freaked out.
25:36.751 --> 25:44.907
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, all that have you unpacked that at all, like, with therapists or whoever, like, do you have any insight into, like, that dichotomy?
25:44.887 --> 26:12.227
[SPEAKER_00]: I've tried, you know, I think I've done therapy not for a while now because I felt like it didn't help, like it didn't help me get past that finish line or make the change that I wanted to make so like maybe therapy isn't the way for me to get there or maybe for some reason I'm not going to get there.
26:12.207 --> 26:15.193
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't, it's always the best thing I've ever done.
26:15.213 --> 26:20.944
[SPEAKER_00]: It's somehow, I can't, I'm afraid that I'll lose myself if I get married, that I'm in the middle of that.
26:21.044 --> 26:23.990
[SPEAKER_00]: That I won't be able to keep being me or doing what I really want to do.
26:24.251 --> 26:25.493
[SPEAKER_00]: Something will get in the way of that.
26:25.513 --> 26:28.058
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that is partly what scares me and stops me.
26:28.479 --> 26:28.579
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:28.599 --> 26:29.702
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting, but you want it.
26:29.962 --> 26:30.102
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:30.122 --> 26:31.465
[SPEAKER_00]: You're still scared of it.
26:31.445 --> 26:32.728
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you want it?
26:33.149 --> 26:34.272
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you want marriage?
26:34.292 --> 26:34.632
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.
26:34.652 --> 26:36.797
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point in my life, I have to admit I'm not sure I do.
26:37.299 --> 26:39.644
[SPEAKER_00]: I made up until 10 years ago.
26:39.704 --> 26:40.366
[SPEAKER_00]: It's safe for sure.
26:40.586 --> 26:41.448
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
26:41.649 --> 26:45.919
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, even actually, I don't know, three years ago, I was dating a woman who I asked her.
26:46.199 --> 26:47.783
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, told her I was interested.
26:47.763 --> 26:49.045
[SPEAKER_00]: but she was not.
26:49.386 --> 27:03.468
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's still something I think I long for, why I guess, you know, for the reason people get married that feeling of finding your soulmate and having a kind of stability and constancy in your life, you know, I think that's what compels me about it.
27:03.488 --> 27:09.477
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, by picture of the happy home is not just me living alone, which I have been for most of my life, you know?
27:09.497 --> 27:12.522
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I live in a house by myself that I bought like 12 years ago.
27:12.805 --> 27:29.543
[SPEAKER_00]: and that's not wasn't exactly like my dream of buying a house and just for me, and yet, as I've gotten older, it's gotten more comfortable, and I've gotten more content with it, pardon me wonders if I still hope, but I still wonder if I'm even that interested in getting married or if I even could do it at this point.
27:29.863 --> 27:41.496
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I haven't done it yet, but even maybe the chance is sort of even slimmer now, because of, I guess, partly my age and just that all the habits are just the,
27:41.476 --> 27:45.561
[SPEAKER_00]: routine that comfort us got into of living by myself.
27:45.961 --> 27:49.365
[SPEAKER_02]: Which brings us to your one-man show about?
27:49.625 --> 27:54.330
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you say that relationship was the closest you've ever been to marriage?
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think it was maybe equally close to the other two times.
27:58.575 --> 28:03.040
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think like it was one time, my early 30s, then my early 40s, and then this was 50.
28:03.381 --> 28:04.141
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so it's interesting.
28:04.161 --> 28:10.909
[SPEAKER_00]: That's always like way around the decade, you know.
28:10.889 --> 28:12.251
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have any.
28:14.835 --> 28:34.247
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think maybe I felt more intensely in love with her though than I had with the other two women like more kind of sure in my head Who knows if that was delusion or infatuation or some reality as well, but yeah, I think I felt with her that it was more I was more in love was more
28:34.227 --> 28:58.007
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted this was like the one and this was gonna happen and I mean obviously our listeners did not see the one man show And they should go see it if it's dare them But I guess like one of the takeaways I had from it was that like everything kind of move really quickly and What we call like a microwave relationship like it heats up real fast and then kind of evaporates So baby
28:57.987 --> 29:05.941
[SPEAKER_03]: you can share with our audience like what happened, how you guys met, where this relationship went and how it inevitably ended.
29:06.161 --> 29:17.802
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I met this Kenyan woman, although she was like two when she moved to the US, but she was Kenyan and I met her when I was on vacation in Bahaqa, Mexico, introduced by a friend.
29:17.782 --> 29:24.472
[SPEAKER_00]: A mutual friend who said, oh, this woman I know is, you know, living in Wahaqa for a while, studying Spanish, you should meet her when you're there on vacation.
29:24.793 --> 29:29.901
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was, you know, obviously, taking the trip is like a gift to myself soon after I turned 50.
29:30.281 --> 29:30.982
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we met.
29:31.062 --> 29:32.425
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like sparks right away.
29:32.765 --> 29:33.867
[SPEAKER_00]: And great chemistry.
29:33.907 --> 29:36.010
[SPEAKER_00]: We had a fantastic time hanging out.
29:35.990 --> 29:41.780
[SPEAKER_00]: And then like on our third or fourth date during my week in Rock, I said, could you see you're spending our lives together?
29:42.121 --> 29:43.083
[SPEAKER_00]: And she said yes.
29:43.844 --> 29:46.388
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it was, you know, it's exactly a proposal.
29:46.408 --> 29:51.838
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry, just so funny for someone that's like freaking out of the inside about like,
29:51.818 --> 29:53.121
[SPEAKER_04]: But let's do this, Ranger.
29:53.161 --> 29:55.286
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, right?
29:55.306 --> 29:56.248
[SPEAKER_00]: How much sense is that?
29:56.288 --> 29:57.531
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's the only way I could do it.
29:57.551 --> 29:59.636
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, you know, almost being caught by surprise.
30:00.097 --> 30:03.284
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, throw it into the deep end, except I threw myself in.
30:03.464 --> 30:06.431
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you see, like, you know, really ran with it.
30:06.451 --> 30:09.658
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, talking about, you know, wedding plans and how we'd have to...
30:09.638 --> 30:15.967
[SPEAKER_00]: have the ceremony at Kenya and I have to give their village a cow and a couple of goats and all that stuff.
30:15.987 --> 30:39.240
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she came to visit me and ended up staying for, I think, close to a month where I was living in Berkeley at the time in my studio apartment and things kind of got a little shaky, like I think I got nervous about how I kind of want things to slow down a little bit and like as I got kind of my reason kind of kick back in my frontal low kick back in
30:39.220 --> 30:42.387
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we should just take a little more time to get to know each other.
30:42.427 --> 30:44.050
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure this is really right.
30:44.171 --> 30:45.273
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that freaked her out.
30:45.634 --> 30:50.143
[SPEAKER_00]: I found out later as I got found out more from her that it was kind of what had happened with her previous.
30:50.163 --> 30:56.296
[SPEAKER_00]: She had gotten engaged like a year before to somebody who had then when they moved in together instantly freaked out and I was the end of that.
30:56.617 --> 30:57.499
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think.
30:57.479 --> 30:59.644
[SPEAKER_00]: She kind of saw this as that guy.
30:59.664 --> 31:12.957
[SPEAKER_00]: It also was a community college English teacher by the way My DJ For God
31:12.937 --> 31:19.525
[SPEAKER_00]: But then she went back to uh, went back to a hockey, and I kept trying to get her to still, was it really, we were on Zoom a lot.
31:19.546 --> 31:24.091
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, actually, the first month we were on Zoom before she came to Berkeley was like super intense and romantic.
31:24.111 --> 31:32.022
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, once she went back to Mexico, we stayed, you know, communicating on Zoom and I kept wanting her to come back because we were, I, I think we both were.
31:32.042 --> 31:38.590
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I was still super attached that she was the one and I wanted this to work and I wanted to have another chance.
31:38.941 --> 31:43.971
[SPEAKER_00]: like for us, for her to come and maybe live in the she had actually gone to college in the Bay Area.
31:44.132 --> 31:46.577
[SPEAKER_00]: So it wasn't like she was a total stranger to the area.
31:46.777 --> 31:52.749
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was hoping maybe she would get her own place and he could actually just date for a while.
31:52.930 --> 31:56.738
[SPEAKER_00]: But like that wasn't really part of her picture her image.
31:56.818 --> 31:57.439
[SPEAKER_00]: So
31:57.419 --> 32:00.046
[SPEAKER_00]: She did actually come back at some point.
32:00.066 --> 32:09.893
[SPEAKER_00]: We did try again, but again, things as I talked about in the play, certain differences in our styles kind of filled up and got to the point where we broke up.
32:10.075 --> 32:30.835
[SPEAKER_02]: your play was so nuanced and that's why I think that's why we loved it because it was so nuanced it wasn't just playing out one story line it was you see the journey of you being the dreamer because we identify that you're definitely the dreamer archetype having the story this image in mind and then fitting her into the story.
32:30.815 --> 32:32.537
[SPEAKER_02]: and seeing the misfit.
32:32.557 --> 32:35.280
[SPEAKER_02]: But her also going through the exact same journey.
32:35.480 --> 32:38.143
[SPEAKER_02]: She had her own image, her own story.
32:38.163 --> 32:43.809
[SPEAKER_02]: She wanted to follow her own fairy tale and you're both trying to fit each other into your own boxes.
32:44.270 --> 32:48.915
[SPEAKER_02]: So with, I think people need to go see this whenever you're doing the show again.
32:48.975 --> 32:52.939
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you withdrew this experience, what was your takeaway?
32:53.159 --> 32:59.286
[SPEAKER_02]: Were you thinking, well, she must not be right for me or were you thinking, I need to look more inward
32:59.266 --> 33:01.410
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the story I need to let go of?
33:01.670 --> 33:02.311
[SPEAKER_00]: Great question.
33:02.511 --> 33:10.364
[SPEAKER_00]: I think mostly, especially in the immediate aftermath, I was more focused on her and her faults and shortcomings, rather than looking inward.
33:10.384 --> 33:16.635
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was more thinking that that was crazy for me to say, you know, to jump in so fast and say, could you see a spending her life together?
33:16.655 --> 33:18.658
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was kind of crazy of her too, to like,
33:18.638 --> 33:23.186
[SPEAKER_00]: jump right back and say, yes, some like I kind of saw more of her different reasons.
33:23.566 --> 33:29.957
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to get revealed to say too much about her personal stuff, but different reasons why she was in such a rush and why she felt the need.
33:29.977 --> 33:35.145
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for security and to have somebody in her life and to be married.
33:35.165 --> 33:38.351
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think for her, too, it was like, did she really know me?
33:38.391 --> 33:39.452
[SPEAKER_00]: Did we really know each other?
33:39.512 --> 33:39.853
[SPEAKER_00]: And
33:39.833 --> 33:42.437
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he's no way that's possible so quickly.
33:42.457 --> 33:49.269
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think I felt like she was stepping on the gas pedal too much for her own reasons and maybe insecurities.
33:49.589 --> 33:51.292
[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like I'm going to be honest, Steve.
33:51.392 --> 33:56.020
[SPEAKER_03]: My worst nightmare is what you've described, of like, sub one.
33:56.000 --> 33:57.642
[SPEAKER_03]: It's truly, it's just playing that out.
33:57.662 --> 33:59.505
[SPEAKER_03]: It is one of my worst nightmares.
33:59.585 --> 34:04.932
[SPEAKER_03]: And we actually had another guest a few seasons back that had some similarities in his story.
34:05.253 --> 34:07.215
[SPEAKER_03]: We did the episode with Ryan Vanduser.
34:07.616 --> 34:13.123
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think this idea of someone being like, let's get married, let's do this, let's move forward.
34:13.143 --> 34:16.047
[SPEAKER_03]: And then just being like, ooh, never mind, let's pump the brakes.
34:16.468 --> 34:18.290
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I mean, can I get it?
34:18.330 --> 34:20.353
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you clearly just got ahead of yourself.
34:20.333 --> 34:32.404
[SPEAKER_03]: And it sounds like with the other person that you proposed to this also happened was this like you know pattern and was this played out in multiple relationships or like how did how did this happen.
34:32.525 --> 34:35.372
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's certainly looks like a pattern right like that.
34:35.352 --> 34:38.976
[SPEAKER_03]: That's true, I don't chew at least for what you said.
34:39.016 --> 34:41.278
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what your other history is like.
34:41.839 --> 34:54.973
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe all three of those relationships from the early 30s, when early 40s weren't at 50, that was where I think I had, especially in my early 40s and the one at 50, where I wanted it to happen.
34:55.213 --> 35:03.942
[SPEAKER_00]: Like even I could 40 New Year's Eve, I was with my friends, you know, celebrating dinner as we moved into two,
35:03.922 --> 35:06.187
[SPEAKER_00]: I really want to I want to get married.
35:06.207 --> 35:08.151
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to find my significant other this year.
35:08.491 --> 35:12.760
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I meet this woman that spring like soon after my birthday.
35:13.121 --> 35:21.778
[SPEAKER_00]: And right after turning 40 and it's no I think I had a picture I had something I wanted to have to happen and then I kind of you know.
35:21.758 --> 35:23.682
[SPEAKER_00]: This person, okay, this is it then.
35:23.902 --> 35:34.986
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, I guess that's my mistake trying instead of really seeing what's there and really giving myself the time to experience this person or really know what's there instead trying to force it into this picture.
35:35.286 --> 35:38.012
[SPEAKER_03]: Have you heard the term love bombing before?
35:37.992 --> 35:49.985
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay, so I feel like love bombing comes more from like a narcissistic tendency of laying it on thick at the beginning to like regain control and I'm not getting that for you I'm not getting that for you.
35:50.105 --> 35:52.087
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm getting more of like the dreamer.
35:52.428 --> 36:05.502
[SPEAKER_03]: I just want the big like love story and getting ahead of myself But then kind of when reality sets in realizing like oh shit like I actually need to be in a relationship like it can't just be this big Randy of his love story
36:05.482 --> 36:09.608
[SPEAKER_03]: Would you say that's accurate or like how would you yeah, that sounds pretty accurate.
36:09.628 --> 36:17.199
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I you know from reading books about you know attachment styles I guess you know I fit into like the avoidant.
36:17.219 --> 36:21.625
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I have some of that Secure attachment style, too, but they can mean you know void it.
36:21.705 --> 36:25.431
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of obvious from the way thing on the surface That's the way I what I tend to do.
36:25.631 --> 36:34.864
[SPEAKER_00]: I think some of that is maybe I think some people in that avoidant Who fall into that also like feel like they're really a love right away
36:34.844 --> 36:40.935
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what that's all about, exactly, but I want to say this though.
36:41.476 --> 36:47.007
[SPEAKER_02]: I truly believe the world could use more people like you because you actually do lead with your heart.
36:47.327 --> 36:54.861
[SPEAKER_02]: When you talk about being a love with these women and wanting to create a future with them, I truly believe you wanted that in the moment.
36:54.841 --> 37:02.069
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think there's any sort of you're not lying to yourself, I don't think you're I don't think you're covering anything up.
37:02.350 --> 37:04.212
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you truly just lead with your heart.
37:04.232 --> 37:09.398
[SPEAKER_02]: I think where the balance needs to happen is again, kind of like the logical side of things.
37:09.578 --> 37:12.982
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you have a very clear image of who your wife is.
37:13.863 --> 37:13.943
[SPEAKER_02]: Huh.
37:13.963 --> 37:16.426
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a little bit of insulin.
37:16.526 --> 37:18.589
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
37:18.729 --> 37:19.870
[SPEAKER_04]: It was to me.
37:20.761 --> 37:22.884
[SPEAKER_04]: Take thanks, you ain't, I don't know.
37:22.904 --> 37:24.647
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're talking about.
37:24.667 --> 37:24.868
[SPEAKER_01]: You ain't.
37:24.888 --> 37:27.893
[SPEAKER_02]: You ain't.
37:27.913 --> 37:36.126
[SPEAKER_02]: Just, there's like, you know, lack of flexibility in terms of the people coming into your life and not fitting into this image.
37:36.266 --> 37:41.435
[SPEAKER_02]: But I want to know, if we did a line-up of all your exes right now, will we put them in a line-up?
37:41.455 --> 37:44.119
[SPEAKER_02]: And we ask him, how would you describe Steve?
37:44.318 --> 37:55.145
[SPEAKER_02]: now looking back into your history, would they put you in the bucket of perpetual bachelor can't settle down, or would they put you on in the bucket of just can't can't commit?
37:55.465 --> 37:56.608
[SPEAKER_02]: Like which one is it?
37:56.809 --> 37:58.794
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are pretty closely related though, aren't they?
37:58.814 --> 37:59.515
[SPEAKER_03]: Are they so discreet?
37:59.535 --> 37:59.636
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
37:59.856 --> 38:01.821
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, how do you define them differently?
38:01.801 --> 38:13.336
[SPEAKER_02]: perpetual bachelor player wants to just play the field and says he wants settled down but he's just really like lying to us or truly cannot incapable of committing.
38:13.356 --> 38:14.858
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the latter is what they would say.
38:15.199 --> 38:22.448
[SPEAKER_00]: They would look at it probably saying this guy can't do he wants to he wants to but he can and they do feel that they feel that you want it.
38:22.468 --> 38:29.277
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the things you couple of women have said that to me in the immediate aftermath like of I wish you I had known before that it's just something you can't do.
38:29.257 --> 38:51.788
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the impression I get from you is like you want it so badly, but there's a block somewhere of like why can't I go I guess like do you like looking back I know sometimes in hindsight things become more clear like in the moment you're like I'm so in love with this person like do you truly believe you were like in love with these people are like looking back was it more infatuation.
38:51.768 --> 39:07.849
[SPEAKER_00]: Fick with certainly the first two, I think I was, but maybe I do wonder about, you know, one at the what the Canyon woman at 50, if that was more infatuation and just like, just all fantasy and Walt Disney and, you know, Disney land version of love.
39:07.889 --> 39:15.079
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but I think, but what I had strong feelings in my friend and people like friends of mine who saw me were like, yeah, I think you're in love.
39:15.099 --> 39:16.120
[SPEAKER_00]: I never saw you're like that.
39:16.280 --> 39:20.526
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but you know, I think it's a combination,
39:20.506 --> 39:29.890
[SPEAKER_03]: So the other two that you were with, like with those more like traditional in the sense like you met in the same town, it wasn't like a vacation fling it had more time go by.
39:29.910 --> 39:30.010
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
39:30.912 --> 39:33.759
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you said those lasted like a couple years, right?
39:34.140 --> 39:37.148
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah, I guess actually one, I guess a year and a half.
39:37.128 --> 39:45.783
[SPEAKER_02]: do you look back at those two or actually those three relationships and consider any of them the one that got away and wish she had done something different?
39:46.044 --> 39:54.799
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think when the one in my early thirties, I think it furs like this incredible woman who had some was so special and amazing things going for and I wish that.
39:54.779 --> 40:01.610
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I just wasn't ready at that point, like, yeah, there's no way I could have done it then as much as I wanted to.
40:01.790 --> 40:04.134
[SPEAKER_00]: But apparently I haven't been able to do it since then either.
40:04.254 --> 40:09.262
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think about her, I guess she's the one who, I think, made, you know, got away.
40:09.282 --> 40:14.990
[SPEAKER_00]: At least I wish that, you know, if you could follow multiple paths in your life, I wish I could have traveled that path.
40:15.451 --> 40:17.074
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so curious, like, what would have happened?
40:17.094 --> 40:19.217
[SPEAKER_00]: Will be you've gotten divorced
40:19.197 --> 40:20.178
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, would it have worked?
40:20.599 --> 40:26.345
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I guess part of me, a little bit of me's curious about that with the other two women as well, but less so.
40:26.465 --> 40:29.088
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think those relationships would have worked.
40:29.108 --> 40:35.195
[SPEAKER_03]: If you met today, how do you think your relationship would be different or do you think the same stuff would have come up?
40:35.215 --> 40:37.138
[SPEAKER_00]: I always like to think it's going to be different.
40:37.838 --> 40:38.099
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
40:38.119 --> 40:40.361
[SPEAKER_00]: But realistically, I think the same stuff would come up.
40:40.381 --> 40:40.902
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
40:40.882 --> 40:41.423
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:41.443 --> 40:42.786
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're really, she should with your mom.
40:43.186 --> 41:03.345
[SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
41:03.646 --> 41:06.491
[SPEAKER_00]: What would my mom say about why I haven't gotten married?
41:06.511 --> 41:20.555
[SPEAKER_00]: I think she might say that like you said a kind of a dreamer and like she always said I'm like looking up at their head and still I tell me like what to do for a living was kind of the way she was the fact that the context that she put it at the time not about romantic relationships.
41:20.675 --> 41:24.802
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think yes you'd say you know he's been with so many wonderful women.
41:25.002 --> 41:25.603
[SPEAKER_00]: He any
41:25.583 --> 41:35.784
[SPEAKER_00]: any one of several women would have been a great match, but I think yeah, the thing about me being like a dreamer and maybe expecting something or wanting something that I can't find in reality.
41:35.945 --> 41:38.290
[SPEAKER_03]: And what was your relationship with your mom like?
41:38.470 --> 41:40.975
[SPEAKER_03]: Were you like very close for you not close?
41:41.035 --> 41:42.037
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what does that look like?
41:42.278 --> 41:43.761
[SPEAKER_00]: As a kid, I was close.
41:44.262 --> 41:45.685
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah, probably the...
41:45.665 --> 41:53.695
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, quit a central mama's boy, you know, you know, I more connected to my mom than my dad and felt more comfortable with my mom than my dad.
41:53.715 --> 42:07.453
[SPEAKER_00]: She was more overtly loving than my father was Be sure and a lot more available and you know, encourage me and I gave me a lot of praise and kind of sob the creative side of me and tried to nurture that and give me a lot of like I said, praise.
42:07.433 --> 42:16.586
[SPEAKER_00]: I returned to her if I, as a kid, had a lot of insecurities and fears and she's the person I would confide in and she would try to give me support and make me feel better.
42:17.207 --> 42:33.350
[SPEAKER_00]: That at some point, I think maybe around the time I went off the college probably, I felt less connected to her and maybe maybe put up a wall, I was in wasn't as apt to didn't share as much of what was going on with myself personally as a grown-up.
42:33.670 --> 42:37.035
[SPEAKER_02]: And your parents' relationship with each other, what was that
42:37.015 --> 42:42.141
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was okay, it definitely wasn't like a relationship that made me think marriage was great.
42:42.261 --> 42:44.244
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like I didn't think it was a great marriage.
42:44.264 --> 42:45.024
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was okay.
42:45.105 --> 42:47.327
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't sure there was such a great match, you know?
42:47.347 --> 42:57.900
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think they got married for a lot of traditional reasons with, you know, to Jewish people who lived in small town New Hampshire and my mother was best friends with my dad's younger sister.
42:58.240 --> 43:02.485
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was four years older, so she and they got married right after she graduated from college.
43:02.505 --> 43:05.048
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it was partly timing and
43:05.028 --> 43:12.922
[SPEAKER_00]: all that, but you know, he was kind of a, it could be kind of a gruff or at least a very introverted guy, you know, kept to himself a lot.
43:12.962 --> 43:20.836
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of the image I always have in families sitting in a zarm chair, you know, smoking his pride listening to classical music and reading the newspaper.
43:20.856 --> 43:27.087
[SPEAKER_00]: That was kind of hidden behind the newspaper, you know, where's my mom was like always on the phone and connecting with her.
43:27.067 --> 43:42.865
[SPEAKER_00]: Many siblings and she was the youngest of 13 kids and she had a lot of friends and a lot of connections And I can very much a people person and he was more and I guess I can book or ideas person, you know I mean obviously we don't need to go into a full on therapy session, but like
43:42.845 --> 43:45.689
[SPEAKER_03]: have you connected the dots?
43:45.709 --> 43:48.373
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there's nothing like in the least what you've told us.
43:48.393 --> 43:53.681
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing standing out of like why this is seeping into your like adult life.
43:53.741 --> 43:59.069
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, sometimes it's very clear from people that their model of love was broken early on.
43:59.650 --> 44:07.401
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm wondering how you've done any like reflection of upbringing and how that impacts how you have been commitment phobic.
44:07.381 --> 44:14.696
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, if it's somewhat, I think, partly maybe feeling like I said, my fear of being in a relationship is that I'm, I'm going to lose myself.
44:14.736 --> 44:26.841
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I felt something out with my mother that it wasn't, it was more about tuning it to her and trying to be the good boy or do what she wanted as opposed to being exploring me and knowing who I was and being myself, whatever that might be, you know.
44:26.821 --> 44:27.782
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they were staying.
44:27.802 --> 44:51.428
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there was somewhat of a narrow window of what was considered like a good boy or a good behavior or how you could be Different ways in the household, but yeah, without I think seeing my parents what to me felt like underlying tension Although they didn't really have over fights that were it, but you know not no screaming at each other anything like that But just feeling some tension and the occasional snide remark from my dad
44:51.408 --> 45:13.416
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe feel like this wasn't such a great merit so it wasn't like wow I want to have what they have So I didn't grow up with like a picture like you know it wasn't a lot of physical Affection between them other when they got older they would like sit and watch TV and hold hands And so that was nice to see when I would visit you know as an older adult but They both passed away by the way in case you didn't know that but up
45:13.582 --> 45:28.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Aside from that, I think my dad was, you know, been my dad being distant and feeling kind of criticized by my dad that didn't help me go up into the world with, like, confidence or whatever that relationship could have been that could have helped me with other relationships.
45:28.841 --> 45:39.555
[SPEAKER_00]: And my mom, I think there was a lot of good, you know, communication and connection there, but there was also, like I said, maybe that sense that I couldn't be fully myself with her or that somehow I needed to get away from her.
45:39.535 --> 45:41.558
[SPEAKER_00]: to be myself, you know?
45:41.578 --> 45:43.942
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that stuff plays out.
45:43.962 --> 45:46.145
[SPEAKER_03]: Have you felt like that was significant others?
45:46.245 --> 45:48.108
[SPEAKER_03]: Like the people in your life that you've dated?
45:48.148 --> 45:50.251
[SPEAKER_03]: Like have you felt like you could be your true self?
45:50.512 --> 45:52.635
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I always feel like there's something holding me back.
45:53.516 --> 45:54.037
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.
45:54.057 --> 45:55.299
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that's the number of me.
45:55.580 --> 45:55.840
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:55.820 --> 45:58.684
[SPEAKER_02]: like what what part of you are holding back?
45:58.704 --> 46:01.008
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess, well, maybe that's an offester way to put it.
46:01.028 --> 46:10.942
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there is an element of that, but also like feeling on some level with them that like one, you know, like say one girlfriend always wanted to like spend some days together.
46:11.323 --> 46:13.706
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like, okay, we have to spend some days together.
46:13.726 --> 46:19.815
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I would feel sometimes like we feel trapped and like, I, it's not really what I want to wish I could be doing something else.
46:20.156 --> 46:25.303
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's that part of it, you know.
46:25.283 --> 46:28.428
[SPEAKER_03]: comprovising in a relationship and not losing yourself.
46:28.448 --> 46:33.375
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe this is like a question for all of us to think about because I think that's a very real thing, right?
46:33.435 --> 46:39.885
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like maybe I don't want to do every last thing with my partner, but at some point you're like, well, this is holding our relationship together.
46:39.905 --> 46:43.731
[SPEAKER_03]: There's two of us versus like, I'm losing myself, right?
46:43.751 --> 46:43.931
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:44.331 --> 46:44.512
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:44.832 --> 46:45.573
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
46:45.593 --> 46:45.814
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:45.834 --> 46:47.376
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you get into the danger zone.
46:47.609 --> 46:55.401
[SPEAKER_02]: this is like what I'm always balancing in my relationship is you can have two people holding their boundaries and then living separate lives.
46:55.421 --> 46:55.541
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
46:56.082 --> 47:10.944
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why you hold your boundaries and then you get curious about why your partner has these boundaries and you discuss them and maybe some people call that a compromise but I think it's about leaning in to why your partners the way they are.
47:10.964 --> 47:17.093
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you had a partner, you know, relationship where you may be pushing them away
47:17.073 --> 47:18.234
[SPEAKER_02]: They get curious.
47:18.575 --> 47:20.177
[SPEAKER_02]: They want to have a conversation.
47:21.378 --> 47:21.458
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
47:21.478 --> 47:31.549
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I've had some girlfriends where they would, we would have the conversation, where they would present me with the book about to read about attachment style.
47:31.569 --> 47:32.751
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.
47:32.771 --> 47:32.871
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
47:32.891 --> 47:35.194
[SPEAKER_00]: They fix yourself, God.
47:35.214 --> 47:37.036
[SPEAKER_02]: You yourself help, and it's fine.
47:37.056 --> 47:39.358
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
47:39.558 --> 47:42.262
[SPEAKER_02]: But what about this opening up a discussion?
47:42.322 --> 47:45.325
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm curious why you're pushing me away.
47:45.305 --> 47:46.647
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great point.
47:46.667 --> 47:56.561
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we have done a little couple's therapy with the woman when I was 30 and a little tiny bit with the other two women as well, that I met to the other two significant relationships.
47:56.741 --> 47:59.505
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was another girlfriend who we did a little bit of couple's therapy.
47:59.525 --> 48:05.274
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was like that desire to get help from an else who would make us do exactly what you're talking about.
48:05.434 --> 48:13.325
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's fantastic when you just suggested and I think it's hard in a way because it's easy to get defensive with that.
48:13.485 --> 48:14.046
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
48:14.026 --> 48:37.772
[SPEAKER_03]: think maybe that girlfriends and me were more apt to get the fences rather than to have that kind of open inquiry and leaning in like you said I think something you've brought up quite a lot is fair and I think that's very relatable to people and we can really let fair hold us back from things we want and some fair is healthy right to like think of things through but then other times it can be like
48:37.752 --> 48:39.695
[SPEAKER_03]: completely debilitating, right?
48:39.736 --> 48:42.661
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it doesn't let you do the things in life that you want.
48:42.961 --> 48:47.349
[SPEAKER_03]: However, you addressed fair and how do you think fair still seeps in?
48:47.409 --> 48:49.072
[SPEAKER_03]: And what are you doing about it?
48:51.917 --> 48:53.621
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you doing?
48:53.641 --> 48:54.462
[SPEAKER_03]: What am I doing about it?
48:54.442 --> 48:57.685
[SPEAKER_03]: Just let it get to go over.
48:57.705 --> 48:58.286
[SPEAKER_00]: We're on the show.
48:58.406 --> 48:59.307
[SPEAKER_00]: We're on this podcast.
48:59.527 --> 49:01.169
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
49:01.489 --> 49:06.074
[SPEAKER_00]: Doing my solo shows, maybe putting that, putting the stuff out there into the world on some level.
49:06.494 --> 49:20.128
[SPEAKER_00]: I think doing some therapy, otherwise, like I said, I haven't done therapy for several years now, meditating, occasionally doing things, like, you know, a workshop, weekend type thing and hoping that will lead to some kind of breakthrough, you know?
49:20.108 --> 49:24.253
[SPEAKER_00]: Being aware of the fear, hoping to try and hope in the like, go of it, hoping it'll change.
49:24.353 --> 49:26.375
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I guess I'm loving, I don't really know.
49:26.395 --> 49:27.536
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a great answer to that.
49:28.357 --> 49:33.764
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to dive into this even more, but before we do, let's take a quick break to hear from our partners.
49:34.304 --> 49:41.012
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a couple, a married couple in your life, who you look to and say, that's the type of marriage I want?
49:41.192 --> 49:42.994
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the reason why I want to get married.
49:43.075 --> 49:59.667
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's like, yeah, some friends of mine who've been married for a number of years trying to think relative so they can think of, but let's say some friends of mine who've been married for several years who look like they have a really good connection some like, okay, what does that look like what is a good connection look like.
49:59.647 --> 50:11.128
[SPEAKER_00]: They have a lot of companionship, you know, they mostly having meals together and trying to support each other, like be there for each other, for the things that are important to them, and going on vacations together, stuff like that.
50:11.148 --> 50:15.276
[SPEAKER_00]: And also having very much their own lives, like their own individual pursuits.
50:15.256 --> 50:16.458
[SPEAKER_00]: at our separate.
50:16.478 --> 50:26.073
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes because I have a lot of Jewish friends that there's I see a lot of these couples that there's like it might be a disconnect where one of them loves going to services and the other one doesn't.
50:26.153 --> 50:29.559
[SPEAKER_00]: One of them feels very observant and ardent about Judaism.
50:29.579 --> 50:31.322
[SPEAKER_00]: The other ones could kind of take it or leave it.
50:31.422 --> 50:37.872
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I know they've had some frustration and and challenges there around that but also I think there's been some ways in which they've
50:37.852 --> 51:01.918
[SPEAKER_00]: compromised and come together to like be there sometimes so the couple that the say the husband who is not less into services will go sometimes Because he wants to be there for his wife and also the wife realising she doesn't have to have her husband there at services She can she can you know have enjoyed being at services for herself and for the community and maybe create stronger relationships at the The synagogue because she's there by herself
51:01.898 --> 51:02.419
[SPEAKER_03]: like it.
51:02.439 --> 51:07.211
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's like a model of maybe sometimes being, you know, compromising.
51:07.412 --> 51:09.898
[SPEAKER_03]: And then other times being more self-sufficient.
51:10.359 --> 51:10.459
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:10.479 --> 51:11.141
[SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting.
51:11.161 --> 51:11.903
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's good.
51:11.923 --> 51:12.484
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
51:12.504 --> 51:17.376
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess like another question for you because you when you wrote into us, you said you're
51:17.356 --> 51:18.138
[SPEAKER_03]: Still hopeful.
51:18.318 --> 51:31.365
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's really important for people to hear because I think there's a lot of people that are, you know, in a similar boat, whether it's been one relationship that hasn't worked out or a lot of relationships that they thought we're going to go somewhere that didn't.
51:31.846 --> 51:33.549
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you stay hopeful?
51:33.589 --> 51:37.457
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what does that mean to you and how are you kind of practicing that?
51:37.437 --> 51:38.038
[SPEAKER_00]: Good question.
51:38.078 --> 51:40.240
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess how do I stay hopeful?
51:40.360 --> 51:42.282
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess maybe that's part of my nature.
51:42.583 --> 51:44.485
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's part of human nature and part of mine.
51:44.665 --> 51:47.087
[SPEAKER_04]: It's I think it's definitely a dream or tendency.
51:47.228 --> 51:47.728
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:47.748 --> 51:48.889
[SPEAKER_00]: It's partly in great.
51:48.909 --> 51:50.631
[SPEAKER_00]: So in a way, I don't have to try.
51:50.671 --> 51:52.934
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just kind of like where I'm going to be.
51:53.174 --> 51:55.477
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, at times they get discouraged and lose hope.
51:55.597 --> 51:57.719
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, you know, it doesn't really feel that good.
51:57.739 --> 52:03.225
[SPEAKER_00]: So I tend to come back to the hopeful place, but also maybe more accepting that it might not work out.
52:03.205 --> 52:03.966
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's okay.
52:03.986 --> 52:09.112
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got to want to be disappointed if the rest of my life single.
52:09.132 --> 52:10.433
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I wanted to be okay.
52:10.453 --> 52:13.436
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's still fine joy and life and be happy.
52:13.516 --> 52:16.139
[SPEAKER_00]: Despite that, although it would be really nice.
52:16.159 --> 52:19.683
[SPEAKER_00]: I have some friends who met and fell in love in their early 60s.
52:19.983 --> 52:21.025
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, okay.
52:21.045 --> 52:23.507
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe it could still happen.
52:23.527 --> 52:24.468
[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
52:24.488 --> 52:31.356
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it the marriage part that you're hopeful about or is it falling in love and having a long-term relationship that you're hopeful about?
52:31.555 --> 52:35.862
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess both, but probably more the following love and having a long-term relationship.
52:35.982 --> 52:37.325
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so it doesn't have to be married.
52:37.345 --> 52:45.097
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, it doesn't have to be, especially now, because I'm not gonna have kids, not, you know, unless if I fell in love with a 30 year old, she really wouldn't have kids, I guess, we could.
52:45.418 --> 52:48.303
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you never know.
52:48.663 --> 52:50.887
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the youngest I'm supposed to go was 39, right?
52:50.967 --> 52:52.770
[SPEAKER_00]: According to that formula, divinity.
52:52.750 --> 52:55.974
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it divide your age by two and add seven?
52:56.074 --> 52:58.096
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't know, like, four of you love this thing.
52:58.777 --> 53:00.659
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that sounds scary.
53:00.679 --> 53:01.100
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds scary.
53:02.681 --> 53:05.284
[SPEAKER_03]: So are you actively dating right now?
53:05.384 --> 53:07.126
[SPEAKER_03]: Or like, what's your dating life look like?
53:07.146 --> 53:09.810
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not right now, but it's kind of yet kind of no.
53:09.850 --> 53:10.410
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I did.
53:10.510 --> 53:13.273
[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't gone in any dates for a thing over a year.
53:13.534 --> 53:17.679
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I started to put out fielder's, I think, on a last winter or spring.
53:18.099 --> 53:22.504
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I went on a handful of dates,
53:22.484 --> 53:22.884
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
53:22.904 --> 53:29.992
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, just got, you know, getting busy and going away, performing my show in various places like San Diego and Ottawa.
53:30.012 --> 53:31.654
[SPEAKER_00]: So I haven't been around to date.
53:31.834 --> 53:35.938
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I'm interested in, and those dates, you know, didn't go anywhere.
53:35.958 --> 53:39.542
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like, one-offs, either because I wasn't interested with the woman.
53:39.562 --> 53:48.171
[SPEAKER_00]: I, like, I would meet people at parties and I'd put it out there like I'd like to meet somebody and a couple people, you know, you know, said, oh, I have someone I can introduce you to.
53:48.632 --> 53:49.032
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
53:49.012 --> 53:50.915
[SPEAKER_03]: Have you ever done apps before?
53:50.975 --> 53:52.317
[SPEAKER_00]: I have, like, a strictly.
53:52.417 --> 53:53.259
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I don't know.
53:53.279 --> 53:57.525
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't really like doing the apps, but I have done the apps, and it's been several years since I've done the apps.
53:57.545 --> 54:02.793
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking maybe I should do them again, because that is, does open up a whole another pool, you know?
54:03.555 --> 54:03.775
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
54:04.236 --> 54:07.020
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm surprised you haven't met anybody I've one of your shows.
54:07.000 --> 54:11.625
[SPEAKER_00]: occasionally, if had some dates from someone in the audience who we can answer.
54:11.646 --> 54:11.826
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
54:12.046 --> 54:12.967
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it has happened.
54:12.987 --> 54:13.888
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that a couple times.
54:14.789 --> 54:14.889
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
54:14.909 --> 54:15.030
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
54:15.050 --> 54:17.693
[SPEAKER_00]: And once turned into a relationship, actually, then they did it.
54:17.893 --> 54:18.614
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
54:18.654 --> 54:19.455
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, hold on.
54:19.475 --> 54:20.636
[SPEAKER_00]: What's one?
54:20.656 --> 54:21.798
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, what?
54:21.878 --> 54:23.119
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
54:23.139 --> 54:29.867
[SPEAKER_02]: And in res doing research for your play and as part of your play, to you've interviewed lots of Mary couples.
54:30.167 --> 54:30.828
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
54:30.848 --> 54:36.535
[SPEAKER_02]: What is a through line for what makes a marriage successful that you found?
54:36.667 --> 54:39.251
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what I'm talking about.
54:39.271 --> 54:51.009
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I really, the three lines, I'm not sure I found one because it's different with different people, but I think part of it is, a lot of it is trust, and I think part of it, like you just feel like you trust this person in a way that you didn't trust anybody else.
54:51.330 --> 55:00.143
[SPEAKER_00]: And part of it is like letting a lot of people have romantic images, like a romantic ideal, like the woman's going to, the person's going to look like this, they're going to be like that.
55:00.123 --> 55:16.005
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they meet this person who doesn't look like this, it isn't like that, and they have to kind of get over that cognitive distance and accept and realize, okay, fine, this person is not doesn't fit that image, but wow, I really like this person, you know, it's great to spend time with this person and
55:15.985 --> 55:16.946
[SPEAKER_00]: You fall in love.
55:17.187 --> 55:22.614
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that came up a lot, you know, where people had certain images that they then had to let go of.
55:22.674 --> 55:31.046
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I think meeting the family helped like once they then were with their, uh, this, their partner and spent time with the partner's family.
55:31.146 --> 55:33.028
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, wow, this is a great family.
55:33.048 --> 55:34.691
[SPEAKER_00]: I like the way it feels being with these people.
55:34.731 --> 55:40.338
[SPEAKER_00]: That helps some people trying to think I think in general, I think people seem like they gave it time.
55:40.619 --> 55:42.842
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I've interviewed like 36 couples.
55:43.122 --> 55:44.524
[SPEAKER_00]: They actually interviewed a lot of
55:44.504 --> 55:48.934
[SPEAKER_00]: couple dozen singles as well, as all that material, and they're not making it into the show.
55:49.395 --> 55:56.151
[SPEAKER_00]: But so I have a lot of data about different ways in which people pursue relationships and end up married.
55:56.435 --> 56:26.323
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like one woman who said had so I've heard some good wisdom I guess from people from during these interviews like one woman said like what she gets annoyed with her her now husband like instead of blaming him she kind of looks at herself and says what is it about me that's getting annoyed which I'm like that seems pretty enlightened I like the idea I don't think I can do that I I want to I've never been able to do that I hope I can someday but instead of just saying okay that's a reason I can't be with this person you know
56:26.692 --> 56:33.688
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's how it's going to ask you because like time came up and something giving you a lot of time and we talked about your microwave relationship.
56:33.708 --> 56:40.785
[SPEAKER_03]: Like whatever you kind of take in from the advice you heard from others into your own life.
56:41.356 --> 56:44.040
[SPEAKER_03]: because it changed the way you date and pick partners at all.
56:44.521 --> 56:46.124
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate to say it, but I guess not yet.
56:46.805 --> 56:47.987
[SPEAKER_00]: Not apparently.
56:48.167 --> 56:48.507
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
56:48.527 --> 56:49.329
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to think that.
56:49.349 --> 56:50.611
[SPEAKER_00]: It's being honest, yeah.
56:50.811 --> 56:51.292
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess not.
56:52.714 --> 56:53.936
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd think it would.
56:53.976 --> 57:06.276
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, one woman who I interviewed, one couple, the woman said, you have to kind of forgive people for being human, like no one's kind, 100% of the time, no one's hard working, 100% of the time, no one's sexy, 100% of the time.
57:06.897 --> 57:09.000
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, wow, yeah.
57:08.980 --> 57:17.270
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's something I have a hard time with, and hopefully, I could get to the point where I could be with somebody and accept that.
57:17.711 --> 57:18.412
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
57:18.432 --> 57:23.778
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, not to like make parallels a hundred percent to the other episode we did, but I'm going to a little.
57:24.479 --> 57:25.500
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
57:25.520 --> 57:25.620
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
57:25.640 --> 57:26.622
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a different viewball.
57:27.042 --> 57:34.211
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'll recognize this, but we had another guess that very similar to you, like, fell fast and then the relationship got real.
57:34.551 --> 57:35.072
[SPEAKER_03]: And then,
57:35.221 --> 57:38.065
[SPEAKER_03]: he kind of was like, I can't do this, it's too much.
57:38.525 --> 57:55.208
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you feel like there's an element for you of that that like once the fantasy is kind of removed and you get into more of that day-to-day kind of like what that person that you interviewed was saying that people aren't perfect 100% of the time or sexy 100% of the time, whatever it is.
57:55.348 --> 57:57.631
[SPEAKER_03]: Like do you feel like that's something that shows up for you?
57:57.912 --> 58:00.755
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it does indeed, yeah, definitely.
58:00.775 --> 58:01.937
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something I need to work on.
58:01.917 --> 58:19.178
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like that's like for Dreamers in general that I could see popping up because you have this very distinct fantasy of the love story, but not necessarily like the day-to-day of a relationship, as I feel like for me, I'm a fellow Dreamer, so I will speak on that path.
58:19.559 --> 58:27.368
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I always imagine the falling in love part, but I never actually thought about what would it be like to be in a relationship with someone?
58:27.348 --> 58:31.675
[SPEAKER_03]: like the more practical part, like that never even like came into my mind.
58:31.715 --> 58:45.238
[SPEAKER_03]: I was lucky that like eventually once I got there, I was ready for it, but like I could see in a past version of myself being that person that was like, oh wait, this is at all like funny games at a bar.
58:45.218 --> 58:50.046
[SPEAKER_00]: Married or innocent if you have a I'm getting married in like a month.
58:50.066 --> 59:10.618
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you've you've made some changes in that regard You've grown in that respect right totally and I think a lot of it's the podcast and just changing my perspective of like what dating Your relationships are like I think for a while I mean, I think some of the traits that actually drew me to my current partner are things that I would not have prioritized in the past
59:10.598 --> 59:18.988
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in also an odd again off again relationship, which I think is very common for dreamers because we wanted to work more than anything.
59:19.229 --> 59:23.334
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think I used to just like really prioritize like the highs of dating.
59:23.714 --> 59:27.219
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think like when things felt stable, it felt boring to me.
59:27.239 --> 59:32.305
[SPEAKER_03]: And I started to like appreciate the consistency in boring quote on quotes.
59:32.405 --> 59:33.106
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not boring.
59:33.126 --> 59:35.549
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just calming looking at it differently.
59:35.589 --> 59:37.311
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was a shift I made.
59:37.351 --> 59:38.833
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
59:38.813 --> 59:54.173
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I kind of like the, now that I'm older, I like the idea of kind of the boring and like, you know, having to have the deals together, just doing your routine side by side with somebody and they're going off to do their day, but you come back and you have this point where you reconnect and meet during the day.
59:54.153 --> 59:58.904
[SPEAKER_02]: but also to see Julie's journey, she also found the right partner.
59:59.184 --> 01:00:05.158
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is if she found someone equally as dreamy and maybe impulsive, this would not work.
01:00:05.479 --> 01:00:08.506
[SPEAKER_02]: She found a partner who's a thinker, that's archetype.
01:00:08.786 --> 01:00:11.352
[SPEAKER_02]: He leans into these
01:00:11.568 --> 01:00:32.783
[SPEAKER_02]: these conflicts that they have because he gets curious about it and then has a conversation about it because he wants to understand like he comes from a place of understand of understanding not not criticizing or being judgmental and I think in some of your story Steve you've been with people who are equally as dreamy.
01:00:32.763 --> 01:00:44.774
[SPEAKER_02]: equally as impulsive, equally as stuck to that image of falling in love and what that story looks like, but also equally as clueless about the practical day-to-day.
01:00:45.155 --> 01:00:47.842
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that's where the conflict really arises.
01:00:48.042 --> 01:00:49.506
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like in your play,
01:00:49.486 --> 01:00:55.217
[SPEAKER_02]: You give the example of the Kenyan woman making a mess in your kitchen, and you found that so annoying.
01:00:55.538 --> 01:00:57.842
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I was like, that's exactly the moment.
01:00:57.922 --> 01:01:00.146
[SPEAKER_02]: You realize, oh shit, like, this is real now.
01:01:01.068 --> 01:01:02.471
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not living in a fantasy.
01:01:02.531 --> 01:01:04.755
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is what it's like to live with this person.
01:01:05.116 --> 01:01:06.178
[SPEAKER_02]: A day-to-day basis.
01:01:06.198 --> 01:01:07.360
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
01:01:07.340 --> 01:01:19.166
[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe that second serious relationship I mentioned to you, you know, when I went up 40, 41, she might think she was more of a thinker, a less of a dream like, and she was more like, practical, like, you know, I'm 40.
01:01:19.206 --> 01:01:26.602
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm soon to be 41, I need to get married, buy a house, have a kid like this has to happen, and I want this to happen.
01:01:26.622 --> 01:01:27.103
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:01:27.590 --> 01:01:29.352
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know how much that's a dreamer.
01:01:29.692 --> 01:01:34.737
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually would argue that's a dreamer achiever more dreamer achiever I don't think that's a thinker.
01:01:34.757 --> 01:01:39.102
[SPEAKER_02]: I think her wouldn't a thinker wouldn't go by these miles.
01:01:39.122 --> 01:01:39.242
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:01:39.322 --> 01:01:44.948
[SPEAKER_02]: I think her is more like okay Let's think let's think about why is it that I want a kid?
01:01:45.168 --> 01:01:49.152
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is it I want to get married more in in the reasoning of it all?
01:01:49.172 --> 01:01:52.595
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think maybe I would say she was more in her head than in her heart.
01:01:53.036 --> 01:01:54.137
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm That's my
01:01:54.117 --> 01:01:54.517
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:01:54.758 --> 01:01:55.579
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:01:55.699 --> 01:01:56.760
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be a cheaper touch.
01:01:56.780 --> 01:01:57.861
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like a cheaper.
01:01:58.882 --> 01:02:23.770
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess like knowing this would that like I guess maybe it's a good segue to over the different we've a lot of different decades to go through but like starting in your 20s to 60s like high level maybe like how do you think dating has changed for you of just like what you're looking for what you're doing all of that and then like where do you want the 60s to go?
01:02:23.750 --> 01:02:25.293
[SPEAKER_03]: knowing all the things you know now.
01:02:25.734 --> 01:02:28.260
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think it's easier when you're younger.
01:02:28.460 --> 01:02:31.867
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, this is like this big pool of available people in your 20s.
01:02:32.208 --> 01:02:33.391
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, everybody's single.
01:02:33.651 --> 01:02:35.615
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like, you know, it's your constantly.
01:02:35.756 --> 01:02:38.642
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas, my age, much less so.
01:02:38.962 --> 01:02:44.374
[SPEAKER_00]: Plus, I'm not doing the same activities or going the same places where I was in my 20s, where I would have
01:02:44.692 --> 01:02:46.334
[SPEAKER_00]: you know met all these available people.
01:02:46.434 --> 01:02:47.715
[SPEAKER_00]: So it becomes harder in that way.
01:02:48.136 --> 01:03:09.197
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still you know definitely drawn to like physical attractiveness like the person I feel like that has to be there like that's the initial pull and I think maybe less so then it used to be a little bit less so maybe then it used to be because I'm like it's a more just it in the real qualities and the real connection that I can have with somebody.
01:03:09.177 --> 01:03:09.698
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
01:03:09.898 --> 01:03:12.683
[SPEAKER_03]: Where do you want the next chapter to go?
01:03:12.944 --> 01:03:16.190
[SPEAKER_03]: Knowing like what we were just talking about and all that?
01:03:16.430 --> 01:03:30.375
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess the chat would be like meeting, going on more dates and then having meeting someone who I want to keep dating and then spend time with and then feel like, wow, this feels different and something I want to go deeper with.
01:03:30.355 --> 01:03:31.598
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been more to subperson.
01:03:31.638 --> 01:03:45.411
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to spend more time like what's on my attributes that she instead of bringing her agenda when she was dating looking she was hoping to get married and ultimately did but She instead of like feeling like is this the person is this the right one is this the one is just the guy wanted me
01:03:45.391 --> 01:03:57.186
[SPEAKER_00]: since that is kind of asking yourself on after a date or two is this a per given a a free after new is this a person I'd want to spend it with and I think yeah that's a great way to think about it and look at it.
01:03:57.467 --> 01:04:09.542
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm something I heard maybe it was on a T-Leaf or T-Bag you know one of those things I don't know I forget where I came across it's like to be with the person with whom you most enjoy conversing and I think that yeah
01:04:09.522 --> 01:04:13.106
[SPEAKER_00]: is like a great thing, a great thing to look for.
01:04:13.146 --> 01:04:13.947
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I like to find it?
01:04:14.208 --> 01:04:16.150
[SPEAKER_03]: What about slowing things down?
01:04:16.410 --> 01:04:17.612
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll be taking more time.
01:04:17.672 --> 01:04:19.734
[SPEAKER_03]: Because that's been a theme that you said.
01:04:19.754 --> 01:04:22.457
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that's like you're actively incorporating?
01:04:22.718 --> 01:04:25.541
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, because I haven't really got on many dates.
01:04:25.621 --> 01:04:28.284
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't really say whether I'm incorporating it yet or not.
01:04:28.304 --> 01:04:28.525
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:04:28.665 --> 01:04:29.606
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's in my mind.
01:04:29.706 --> 01:04:30.547
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in the back of my mind.
01:04:30.607 --> 01:04:32.689
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe closer to the front, but at the same time.
01:04:33.090 --> 01:04:38.196
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though it's in my mind, I don't know if I can honestly follow that wisdom.
01:04:38.176 --> 01:04:41.079
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, I think that I'm still like because of my nature.
01:04:41.439 --> 01:04:43.481
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still acting like move quickly.
01:04:43.501 --> 01:04:44.442
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is the one.
01:04:44.622 --> 01:04:48.605
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, it's starting immediately imagining we're going to spend the rest of our lives together.
01:04:48.625 --> 01:04:48.846
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:04:48.866 --> 01:04:49.466
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:04:49.486 --> 01:04:52.449
[SPEAKER_00]: It's which is ridiculous, but there you are.
01:04:52.469 --> 01:05:00.596
[SPEAKER_03]: It's good to have the awareness though that we go there so can at least be like a thought of like when you get into that mode of like, oh my god, this is the one.
01:05:00.616 --> 01:05:08.183
[SPEAKER_03]: Be like, wait, we've only
01:05:08.163 --> 01:05:20.500
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because you can't go against who you naturally are and you're naturally going to go there Yeah, it probably helps you even just say it out loud to yourself But then Come back to reality with dreamers.
01:05:20.560 --> 01:05:33.478
[SPEAKER_02]: We always say like hello come back to earth Yeah Come back to reality see what's actually going on, but feel free to fantasize still because that is truly part of you are
01:05:33.458 --> 01:05:40.670
[SPEAKER_03]: The thing is even if you suppress it a little as a dreamer, you're still like, overall you're still like oozing and hopeful about love.
01:05:40.690 --> 01:05:41.812
[SPEAKER_03]: Like that's not going to go away.
01:05:42.252 --> 01:05:47.661
[SPEAKER_03]: It's more of just this reality check of like, oh wait, I don't really know this person yet.
01:05:47.781 --> 01:05:48.923
[SPEAKER_03]: Like kind of that piece.
01:05:49.284 --> 01:05:50.265
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:05:50.786 --> 01:05:54.893
[SPEAKER_02]: What advice would you give your 40 year old self today?
01:05:55.278 --> 01:06:01.012
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say maybe ask that question, given a free afternoon, is this really the person I want to spend time with?
01:06:01.032 --> 01:06:04.961
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, don't, don't be so, don't be a chief minority.
01:06:04.981 --> 01:06:05.903
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't think about the goal.
01:06:06.344 --> 01:06:07.608
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't think about the destination.
01:06:07.628 --> 01:06:09.191
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I need to get married instead.
01:06:09.693 --> 01:06:10.755
[SPEAKER_00]: Think about.
01:06:10.735 --> 01:06:11.396
[SPEAKER_00]: the connection.
01:06:11.576 --> 01:06:13.780
[SPEAKER_00]: And really see how do I feel with this person?
01:06:14.361 --> 01:06:15.443
[SPEAKER_00]: How do they show up with me?
01:06:15.483 --> 01:06:16.625
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I show up with them?
01:06:17.026 --> 01:06:19.069
[SPEAKER_00]: And is that what I want long term?
01:06:19.089 --> 01:06:26.342
[SPEAKER_03]: And what is the part of your advice you have for anyone that wants to still feel optimistic about finding love?
01:06:26.362 --> 01:06:27.724
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, parting words.
01:06:28.125 --> 01:06:29.267
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess it's still out there.
01:06:29.427 --> 01:06:30.589
[SPEAKER_00]: It happens for a lot of people.
01:06:30.629 --> 01:06:31.451
[SPEAKER_00]: It can happen for you.
01:06:32.032 --> 01:06:35.798
[SPEAKER_00]: I see, you know, I see a lot of good marriages and good couples.
01:06:35.980 --> 01:06:38.343
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think this has been so interesting.
01:06:38.443 --> 01:06:39.965
[SPEAKER_03]: And thank you for just being honest.
01:06:40.005 --> 01:06:47.013
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think sometimes people want to say what they think that people should hear, and we're just like, I don't know, but I'm still figuring it out.
01:06:47.033 --> 01:06:48.094
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's good.
01:06:48.155 --> 01:06:50.497
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's important to like honor that.
01:06:50.678 --> 01:07:01.971
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, I think regardless of our experiences staying hopeful and just like appreciating life, like you said, like, look, of course, I want to find someone to meet someone, but I'm also like happy with my life.
01:07:01.951 --> 01:07:07.678
[SPEAKER_03]: it's gonna be okay and I think that's really important and it's not like giving up or anything like that.
01:07:07.698 --> 01:07:15.889
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just being realistic that like one piece, like your entire happiness doesn't necessarily ride on getting married and finding the person.
01:07:15.989 --> 01:07:20.455
[SPEAKER_03]: It can obviously enhance that happiness, but it's not dependent on the whole thing.
01:07:20.475 --> 01:07:23.098
[SPEAKER_03]: I think this other piece around fair,
01:07:23.078 --> 01:07:36.423
[SPEAKER_03]: I know it's a work in progress, I know it's something that we all have to think about, but I think it's something I think about a lot of like, is this something that I'm like actually just giving into like the fair or like, is this healthy and it's guiding me?
01:07:36.524 --> 01:07:39.349
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think a lot of times our heads can tell us,
01:07:39.329 --> 01:07:40.271
[SPEAKER_03]: anything, right?
01:07:40.611 --> 01:07:43.176
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it can tell our brains could talk us out of something.
01:07:43.377 --> 01:07:45.360
[SPEAKER_03]: And that might not actually be what we want.
01:07:45.541 --> 01:07:50.330
[SPEAKER_03]: It just might be the easier path to like not actually put ourselves out there and do the thing.
01:07:50.590 --> 01:07:54.918
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think fair is just something that is so relatable to everyone.
01:07:54.959 --> 01:07:59.447
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, it's not an easy solution as you said, do like,
01:07:59.427 --> 01:08:01.230
[SPEAKER_03]: not fully there but that's okay.
01:08:01.351 --> 01:08:17.841
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a work in progress and things happen incrementally over time but just like being aware is the first step of like what are these tendencies whether it's fair or get ahead of yourself or whatever's thinking might be that you're like knowing that it might not be serving you.
01:08:17.821 --> 01:08:21.928
[SPEAKER_03]: but also like realizing like some of this is just who I am and that's okay.
01:08:21.988 --> 01:08:36.311
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of like what we're doing with the archetypes is we're never going to say Steve stopping a dreamer but it's like what parts of a dreamer might not actually be serving you and how do you just like being aware of this of them instead of being like any change my whole personality.
01:08:37.513 --> 01:08:38.795
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good point.
01:08:38.815 --> 01:08:40.217
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good perspective for sure.
01:08:40.366 --> 01:08:41.850
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's all about perspective.
01:08:42.170 --> 01:08:47.383
[SPEAKER_02]: Looking back at your story, someone could say, oh, how tragic he hasn't found love.
01:08:47.724 --> 01:08:52.996
[SPEAKER_02]: Or someone could say, damn, he's had a nice collection of love stories.
01:08:53.016 --> 01:08:53.096
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
01:08:53.117 --> 01:08:53.377
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:08:53.878 --> 01:08:55.422
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say for the latter.
01:08:55.402 --> 01:08:59.886
[SPEAKER_02]: I would much rather be in your position than be stuck in a 30-year loveless marriage.
01:09:00.006 --> 01:09:10.755
[SPEAKER_02]: Yet, where yes, I have someone to go eat dinner with, but I absolutely hate this person or to test this person, or I'm so lonely in this relationship, or I'm just feeling nothing in this relationship.
01:09:11.135 --> 01:09:18.522
[SPEAKER_02]: I rather feel a lot of something in many relationships, versus nothing in a long-term relationship.
01:09:18.982 --> 01:09:24.767
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the perspective that I'm bringing into this is you actually have had some great love stories.
01:09:24.747 --> 01:09:31.579
[SPEAKER_02]: And thank you for sharing those, but also thank yourself for going through those experiences, those are really nice.
01:09:32.240 --> 01:09:44.080
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I would also say that for you and for all dreamers, it's the challenge of how do you re-look at your definition of a relationship.
01:09:44.400 --> 01:09:45.422
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you...
01:09:45.402 --> 01:09:47.246
[SPEAKER_02]: redefine what connection is.
01:09:47.827 --> 01:09:54.701
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe for you Steve throwing it out there, maybe the next relationship you get into is starts with a friendship first.
01:09:55.262 --> 01:10:06.344
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's like a multi-year friendship where you really develop this this platonic relationship with each other to find that companionship that then turns into something romantic.
01:10:06.424 --> 01:10:07.005
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
01:10:07.137 --> 01:10:07.739
[SPEAKER_02]: could happen.
01:10:07.799 --> 01:10:15.645
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think the the best question you can ask yourself is, could I could it be maybe the possibilities are out there?
01:10:15.980 --> 01:10:21.810
[SPEAKER_02]: but it's about trying something different or relooking redefining.
01:10:21.970 --> 01:10:33.870
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's funny you say that, you act, cause like recently, asked a woman out that she said, when she said, well, for the first time, I don't wanna just go out one-on-one, like where we go out, I wanted to be a couple other people there.
01:10:34.712 --> 01:10:39.760
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though she knew me, like she just wanted to take away some of that intensity or pressure of the,
01:10:39.740 --> 01:10:54.465
[SPEAKER_00]: romantic expectations, I guess, and that she wants to, she said she wants to go, whatever happens, she wants to make sure we go really slow, and that we make sure that there's a lot of friendship and rapport there for us before I'm like, oh, what?
01:10:54.565 --> 01:10:56.288
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, and I just want to do what you said.
01:10:57.410 --> 01:10:59.033
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what's your reaction to that?
01:10:59.073 --> 01:11:03.300
[SPEAKER_04]: We're just like, oh my god, that's basically the opposite of me.
01:11:03.280 --> 01:11:12.411
[SPEAKER_00]: Pardon me, pardon me, I'm like, oh man, it's like I have to jump through all these hoops or like this is somebody This is somebody's defenses and this is comp more complicated.
01:11:12.511 --> 01:11:21.161
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't be simply and part of me is like It's probably the best way for anything to work out for me would be if I could actually do that Yeah, so is this a yes?
01:11:22.583 --> 01:11:24.225
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so we have a
01:11:24.205 --> 01:11:28.371
[SPEAKER_00]: We have another date scheduled for each, and it's like a few weeks from now.
01:11:28.391 --> 01:11:30.334
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, call it a date.
01:11:30.354 --> 01:11:32.917
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like just yeah, take date off the table.
01:11:33.278 --> 01:11:35.181
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're getting to know each other.
01:11:35.221 --> 01:11:36.162
[SPEAKER_02]: That is it.
01:11:36.543 --> 01:11:37.123
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
01:11:37.764 --> 01:11:46.998
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like this is your path because you know how you were saying earlier, how like every decade, you have like that big person, and then it was missed in the 60s.
01:11:47.198 --> 01:11:49.221
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the 60s is going to be a slow burn.
01:11:49.581 --> 01:11:50.162
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:11:50.142 --> 01:11:52.287
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, slow burn is good.
01:11:52.588 --> 01:12:02.009
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's like the universe telling you like we're not going to be throwing you these like microwave relationships that we work All right.
01:12:02.250 --> 01:12:02.871
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah.
01:12:02.891 --> 01:12:03.894
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, keep us updated.
01:12:04.014 --> 01:12:04.555
[SPEAKER_02]: I will.
01:12:04.595 --> 01:12:04.976
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
01:12:05.497 --> 01:12:05.738
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:12:06.848 --> 01:12:08.550
[SPEAKER_03]: Well thanks again for sharing.
01:12:08.650 --> 01:12:10.192
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you were very vulnerable.
01:12:10.252 --> 01:12:23.910
[SPEAKER_03]: I think this is really relatable to a lot of people that are either going through this themselves This feeling of I want to be in a relationship, but oh, do I want to be in a relationship or being on the opposite side when someone does this?
01:12:24.070 --> 01:12:32.080
[SPEAKER_03]: I know for years like I had the on again off again relationship and now I can see like he just wasn't capable of being in a relationship
01:12:32.060 --> 01:12:35.143
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think in the moment, I took it really personally.
01:12:35.163 --> 01:12:42.211
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think hearing people's perspectives like yours, for instance, it shows that a lot of it just has to do with the other individual.
01:12:42.271 --> 01:12:45.334
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it really wasn't the women necessarily.
01:12:45.374 --> 01:12:46.776
[SPEAKER_03]: Like maybe they weren't the right fit.
01:12:46.796 --> 01:12:52.061
[SPEAKER_03]: But there was also patterns that it wasn't like, you know, this was kind of just how it was, right?
01:12:52.321 --> 01:12:52.942
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:12:52.962 --> 01:12:53.743
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.
01:12:54.203 --> 01:12:55.465
[SPEAKER_00]: It was great talking with you both.
01:12:55.725 --> 01:12:56.746
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy to have the chance.
01:12:56.846 --> 01:12:57.527
[SPEAKER_02]: If people,
01:12:57.507 --> 01:13:00.029
[SPEAKER_02]: Want to learn more about your one-man show?
01:13:00.049 --> 01:13:00.710
[SPEAKER_02]: Where can they go?
01:13:00.950 --> 01:13:03.733
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully I can get my website together I mean it's up there.
01:13:03.773 --> 01:13:14.483
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have the new information on it, but it is Steve Bud.com So uh, yeah, that's a lot of place and I always post stuff on Facebook and Instagram So great.
01:13:14.503 --> 01:13:21.790
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we'll link the your website and handles in the show notes as well sounds good.
01:13:21.810 --> 01:13:24.152
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah Thank you again Steve.
01:13:24.172 --> 01:13:25.253
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, for
01:13:25.638 --> 01:13:28.041
[SPEAKER_02]: you're you're such a great storyteller as well.
01:13:28.362 --> 01:13:29.523
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for that in there.
01:13:29.603 --> 01:13:31.005
[SPEAKER_02]: A pretty natural storyteller.
01:13:31.766 --> 01:13:32.247
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:13:32.447 --> 01:13:33.749
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you again.
01:13:33.809 --> 01:13:34.931
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you to our listeners.
01:13:35.131 --> 01:13:36.753
[SPEAKER_02]: What did you learn from this episode?
01:13:37.174 --> 01:13:39.117
[SPEAKER_02]: What is something you're optimistic about?
01:13:39.177 --> 01:13:41.720
[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't you give us a rating review in Apple podcasts?
01:13:41.740 --> 01:13:44.404
[SPEAKER_02]: You can give us five stars there in the body of a review.
01:13:44.444 --> 01:13:47.268
[SPEAKER_02]: Tell us what did you learn from Steve in this conversation?
01:13:47.328 --> 01:13:50.953
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're on Spotify, you can actually comment directly on this episode.
01:13:50.933 --> 01:13:53.500
[SPEAKER_02]: What is your biggest takeaway about love?
01:13:53.820 --> 01:13:54.903
[SPEAKER_02]: Finding love, hope for love.
01:13:54.923 --> 01:13:56.186
[SPEAKER_02]: And on that note, we're gonna wrap up this episode.
01:13:56.246 --> 01:14:07.896
[SPEAKER_02]: Stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay