Janis Goodman

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Simple ways like a Rorschach test, you know?
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But that's the best, isn't it?
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Like when people can bring things to their experiences in their interpretation.
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I think that's really that's when you're involving the audience with your artwork, and that's what we all want.
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Right.
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And and when the piece, you know, when the piece leaves the studio, it's not about me, it's about you.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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You bring life, you bring life to the to the artwork.
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The artwork is inert until somebody looks at it.
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Welcome to Creative Contemplation Podcast.
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I'm your host and the creator, Suzanne Bago Arthur.
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I'm a realist painter working in Wheels from Lava County, Virginia, and I'm fascinated with the subject of creativity.
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I want to know what was the spark that led creative professionals into the fields they are in?
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Why they make the work that they do?
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And what can we learn from each other?
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Listen as we answer these questions more.
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I'll be interviewing people from all over the creative universe, artists, designers, writers, you name it, even museum experts who will give us insight into other famous creative minds.
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Maybe together we can find the answers.
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Thanks for joining us today.
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My guest today is Janice Goodman.
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Janice wears many hats.
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She is a painter residing in Washington, D.C., an arts reviewer on the WETA show around town, and a professor of fine arts, which is how we met.
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She was one of my favorite professors at the Corcoran School of Art.
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Welcome to the podcast, Janice.
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Oh, it's great to be here, Suze.
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It's great to see you.
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It's wonderful to see you.
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We were just um talking a little bit earlier about how we've been trying to get together for the past two years and never seemed to do it with COVID.
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Um uh so it's been kind of a crazy time.
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And you were, um I don't I don't want to jump, but later on we'll discuss in the podcast your your teaching uh and and that transition during COVID.
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Um, but I'd love to start with your education.
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I found it fascinating that you started as a printmaker.
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I had no idea.
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So I started with a lot of black and work, black and white, and a lot of graphic, a lot of linear work.
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And so I don't know if you remember, but my earliest work were a lot of drawings.
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Yes, I loved those.
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Yes.
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And that came out of printmaking.
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Okay, yeah, I can see that.
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But the drawings really came out of printmaking and you know, value distribution and black and white.
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Yeah.
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And uh yeah, and so what kind of printmaking?
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What were you doing?
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A lot of wood block prints.
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Uh wood block prints?
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Wood block prints, yeah, and some Intaglio.
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And um I did some screen printing, but I didn't like screen printing as much.
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Um, I didn't feel I had the control over screen printing, which I did.
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I I mean, I loved I like woodworking.
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I like work that's physical.
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And so when you're working with a piece of pine or whatever you're cutting into, yeah, it's physical.
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It's like you're doing sculpture.
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Oh, definitely.
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Yeah.
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Did you see the Chuck Close show, the one they had it at the cork rand with all the oh my god, that was amazing, right?
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I have a very funny aside about that.
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I took my husband and my son, and um, you know, I was like pouring over all the paintings, like, you know, I think it took me two hours to get through the show because it was a it was a huge show, right?
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And um just, you know, the scale of his work, et cetera, like just you know, worshiping at the altar.
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And I get out of that, and you know, I'm like, oh my God, isn't that amazing?
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And my husband's like, Yeah, it was all right.
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It was like the guy was a quadriplegic.
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He did most of that with a paintbrush in his mouth, you know, and then he's like, Oh, yeah, I wish I had known that would have made a whole different like impression.
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That's an interesting topic, um which moves in lots of different directions.
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You know, I mean, how much how much do you need to know about an artist as compared to just standing in front of their work?
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How does that influence you?
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Um, I think some knowledge is really good.
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I think sometimes too much knowledge.
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Uh well, I don't have too much knowledge can be bad, but um, you know, so much of our response to art is so visceral.
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Yeah, it's not intellectual.
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Yeah, it grabs you, and then once you start unpacking it, you realize, oh, this, this, and this.
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But I think there's a lot of misinformation out there that you know one has to approach art on an intellectual level.
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And I don't think it works like that.
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I agree.
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Yeah, you know, like you go to see a dance performance, and you may, it's you don't understand what it's about, but you're watching movement and color and light and sound, and then you find out, oh, that's a reaction to the invasion in you know, the Ukraine.
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It's like, oh okay, you know, maybe had you known before.
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So I don't know.
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Um, you know, his work changed, but it didn't change that much given what he was doing.
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Right, right, right.
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Yeah.
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So maybe he just, you know, it wasn't his cup of tea, but it was mine.
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So are were you doing uh etchings as well and lithos?
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Okay, but like I could see the work that you were doing previously, and I'm uh with the YouTube, I want to share some of the images.
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Um, and I'll share links as well.
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It if you if you have uh images that you can share with me.
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But I remember I could probably send you some JPEGs.
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Yes, that's fantastic.
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You know, like the years pile up and like Yeah, of course.
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No, of course.
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They were in slide forms.
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Yeah.
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Well, when we when we first met, you were uh doing large scale graphite, if I remember correctly.
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There was a series of of the traveler, right, with the suitcases, right?
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And those were colored pencil and uh graphite.
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They were amazing.
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Yeah.
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So when you first started, were you were you guys recording your work in JPEGs or was it pre was it pre it was pre.
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We were used, yes, we were photographing everything, and you had to get like there was that one photographer in town that they recommended that we would all get our work photographed.
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Like that's how, yeah, it's so easy.
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And I still have boxes of slides.
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Slides, yeah.
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Right?
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The chroma slides, yeah.
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I do too, and I need I really need to um uh digitize them.
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I just haven't got around to it, you know.
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There's a lot of these, I think simple machines that you can do it.
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I don't think you have to take it anywhere fancy.
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Um, I have a machine, but I I've I've done to some of them.
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Uh-huh.
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And then and then your MFA is from GW.
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GW and Corcoran.
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And and and oh, so it was GW Corcoran back then?
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Yeah, a lot of the courses were with Corcoran faculty.
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That's so interesting.
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What full circle the whole thing?
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We'll talk about that as well.
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I mean, the Corcoran has been my entire adult life.
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Yeah, it's it's so weird, you know.
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You don't, I mean, I've I've left and I've done a lot of other things, but it's really been my base my entire life.
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Yeah.
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And who were who were you studying then at that time?
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Well, I was studying with the painter Bill Woodward.
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Okay, sure.
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Right.
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Um Did you know Robert Liberace?
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Was he all right?
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I didn't know him well, but I did know him.
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Okay, yeah.
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I've studied with him.
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And um, this guy who unfortunately, um, Arthur Hall Smith, who was a Northwest artist, he was from the Northwest, um, but he's he's he died.
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And then I took some drawing with Frank Wright, and um trying to think who else.
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You know, it's funny, there weren't many women back then.
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Yeah, oh for sure.
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You know, yeah, so it's interesting because you guys came to the corker and and like we were 50%, 50% of the faculty were women.
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Yeah, that's right.
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It was really an anomaly in those days, you know.
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It really was.
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You know, and um yeah, so um, yeah, so I mean I came out of a much more, I mean, and Corcoran GW back then was much more traditional, you know, was more um, it was post-impressionism.
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Um, Bill Woodward had studied, he was a figurative painter, Frank Wright was a narrative painter, um, Arthur was more abstract, he was more um, and so I was definitely more of a narrative, figurative painter back then.
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But you know, I mean that's what happens when you're in school.
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You just sort of do your work and then you leave school and you're left in your own studio.
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And it's like, well, I don't know if this quite feels right.
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And you start to, you know, push the boundaries a little bit to say, no, I want to be more realistic, I want to be more this, you know.
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So schoolwork is it's interesting, but it's under the direction or the um impression of faculty or the environment you're in.
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You know, I have a really good friend who went to um Pratt, and it was all abstraction when she was there, all abstraction.
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And she's now like a total realist landscape painter.
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And she didn't even really want to do that, but she was there, and that's what you do, and you don't get the positive feedback if you're doing what's not really the style or the mode.
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Well, that that I I can relate to that because when I was at the cork random there wasn't a lot of realism going on, right?
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You were definitely one of the people that I looked up to at the time, but it was you know, it was kind of looked down upon, right?
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Like by the faculty there, right, and there were a number of faculty that also looked down on photography.
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That's crazy.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you know, um, and I think it was I hope none of the guys are listening, but I think as many of the ways it was the male professors that were the most dogmatic.
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That's so interesting.
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What is art?
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Yeah, you know, and what isn't art?
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It's like if you want to work realistically, you have every right in the world to work realistically, right?
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Right.
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What you should do.
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Right, right.
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It's it's it's interesting, and and the whole emphasis on process right there at the corporate, that was really, really big, which it sounds like it wasn't as much an issue at GW.
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No, it wasn't, but that the whole school has changed.
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GW is not, they they'll have almost no painting students.
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Oh, that's interesting.
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I did see something that they've they they tend to more embrace political kind of like commentary.
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It's more social justice and um, yeah.
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I had one student, I worked with the graduate students in the spring, and I had one student who was a painting student and a really great, great painter.
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And he had taken taken a painting class with me in the fall.
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Um, but I I was the only paint, I was the only painting instructor for the graduate students.
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And that was just what wow.
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So I know.
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I wasn't like a lot of film, like what is it?
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What what is it that's not it's installation, it's performative, um, it's uh photography, digital.
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Um it's just it's it's very much what school schools in general are going through, you know, as we've shifted from like the Western um you know colonizers, right?
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Right.
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So, you know, we're trying to be more inclusive.
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And inclusivity has meant a broadening of an opening up of the umbrella to include other kinds of formats.
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Other perspectives.
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There's still lots of schools that are doing, you know, more straight-up painting, whether it's abstract expressionism or minimalism or, you know, um, I think American University is still more of a school that works off of image, where it's things now are more content and less image.
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That's interesting.
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Yeah, that's really interesting.
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You know, so it's it's been a shift for me.
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Now, how was that?
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I'm I'm gonna be jumping a little bit here, and my question, but this is so great.
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So, how how was it going from that transition of what the Corcoran used to be to now GW?
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I mean, it was a very uh tumultuous time, like among the Corcoran audience, right?
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The former students, people were very upset when uh when the board disbanded, right, and sold the gallery.
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And um nothing got sold.
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What's that?
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Nothing got sold.
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Nothing got sold?
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No, everything just shifted.
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All the artwork was given to all the different museums and like American University, the Catson Center.
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There was no there was no transfer of money.
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Okay.
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I thought I thought for sure that they had uh acquisitioned some paintings and sold them as well.
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I think I don't want to misspeak that could have even received the money.
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Okay.
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Okay, so we were shifted to GW.
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Oh, that's interesting.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Uh to be honest, it was horrible.
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Yeah, I I can imagine.
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It didn't look pretty from the outside.
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It did not look pretty from the outside.
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It wasn't pretty on the inside.
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It was, and then you know, we were a pretty tight group of faculty, right?
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Yeah, there were like five of us that kept our jobs.
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So all of my buddies left, yeah, right.
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And then the the biggest, the hardest part, remember how crowded the school used to be?
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Like you could barely walk through the hallways.
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Yeah.
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Well, because GW has the Smith Building, which is a dedicated art building.
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Most of the classes are over in Smith.
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So I never see anybody.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I don't see colleagues.
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I, you know, and that's that's that's one of the it almost feels sometimes like I'm teaching at a um a continuing education program.
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You know, because it used to be, you know, you could hear things, people running up and downstairs, lots of stuff being hung in the wall and the hallways, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, no, it was wonderful.
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It was a really small community.
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I mean, I I I don't know how many, how many were in each class, but it was, you know, less than a hundred students, right?
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Yeah, really small.
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Yeah, it yeah.
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But you know, this is uh this is the way of many um art colleges now.
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That's interesting.
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Yeah, San Francisco just closed, Memphis is closed.
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Um, I had no idea.
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Wow.
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Oh yeah, Simon's this summer it closed, but tons of them, or or they've also done like what G what Corcoran done with has done with GW.
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Um, they're part now of a larger um university system.
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Now, why do you think that's why do you think that has happened?
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What's been the shift there?
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Do you think um well when you guys were there, the school was not an expensive program.
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No, it wasn't, yeah.
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Right?
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And it was an you know, this is the thing I I rag about.
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It's like you want inclusivity, but you charge outrageous amount of money.
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Yes, and then it and then sometimes people graduate without the skill set to even, you know, draw or paint, right?
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Right.
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Like if they're purely taught in a very conceptual environment, conceptual work, but you also have to have the skill set.
00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:35.039
And not every program does that.
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:39.600
And then to give, you know, to give uh uh to charge those prices, right?
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:44.559
And then uh and then not be able to produce any, you know, make a living off of it when you graduate.
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:45.919
I mean, that's almost criminal, you know.
00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:54.159
So I can kind of understand that it's being a little bit of all the schools, all the private schools, whether they are art schools, are all outrageously expensive.
00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:56.399
Outra, I think they're outrageously expensive.
00:14:56.559 --> 00:14:57.919
I could never go to the court.
00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:59.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:09.360
And so I think be it's so expensive, and parents rightfully so, they want to make sure that their kids are going to be able to get some kind of work.
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:15.440
And I mean, I don't know anyone that ever graduated from the cork run that was homeless.
00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:20.720
I mean, there were a few marginal people, you know, that sort of I need one squatter.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:21.600
I need one person.
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:34.080
But but then but then living was so much cheaper, rents were so much cheaper, you know, so that you could afford to work at a Starbucks, although we didn't have Starbucks back then.
00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:43.120
You could afford to work at a bar as you know, bartender or whatever, hostess or host and and have a little studio and live, right?
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:44.399
You cannot do that.
00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.960
It's it's really interesting how um and space is so expensive.
00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:50.559
So I think that's a piece of it.
00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:51.600
And I would agree.
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:56.080
Students want to have fallback, right?
00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:05.279
So they're also doing um environmental studies, or they're taking courses in political science, or they're just that's interesting.
00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.799
Yeah, so how much arts education is being taught now?
00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:15.919
Like well, we still have um BFA majors and just fine art, excuse me, fine art majors.
00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:21.200
So there's still a fair number, but we tend to get way more students that are not art majors.
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.000
That's that's by arts education.
00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:26.320
I I think uh what I meant was arts business.
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:32.159
So like the business side of the arts for they are doing that, they're especially doing that more in the graduate level.
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:32.799
Oh, I see.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.519
Which is really small, which is a really small program.
00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:39.120
Um you think that should be a bigger component on the BFA level as well?
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:43.039
Yeah, and they they they they have started doing more and more.
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:53.759
We do a lot more writing and we do a lot more uh applying for residencies, and um, but it it's true, it's definitely way more on the graduate level.
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:55.360
Yeah, that's really that's interesting.
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.279
Yeah, it's it's yeah.
00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:00.720
That would be my criticism is the practical skills are kind of lacking, you know.
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:01.200
Right.
00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:10.000
And that's a holdover from the you know, the early art school, that this purist kind of no, you shouldn't think about money, you shouldn't, you know, whatever.
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:11.839
Yeah, oh that's really that's interesting.
00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:19.200
Yeah, well, um, let's talk a little bit about the work itself and how it has transitioned.
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:24.480
Um so so one of the questions that you had asked was what were my early influences?
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:25.440
Yes, yes.
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:33.599
And I thought about that, and given I was more figurative then, I was really interested in the north the San Francisco Bay Area artists.
00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:35.119
Oh, okay, wow.
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:36.960
I would never guess that.
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:39.920
Yeah, and as compared to Mark Rothko.
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:47.119
So, you know, you had the New York School and then you had the Bay Area, and I was much more interested in like Elmer Bischoff, Paul Warner, I just have these notes here.
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:47.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:18:02.880
Um, Joan Brown, David Park, and the way they were sort of flattening space, but also using, I mean, they were abstracting space to a certain degree, but they were working more figuratively as compared to like Mark Rothko or Jackson Flock, which was totally void of a narrative.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:03.519
Yeah.
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:08.720
So that was early on, they were people that I were I was looking at.
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:16.160
Um, and then um and then what happened, you know, then we I was traveling a lot.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:18.559
Remember, I was going back and forth to Holland a lot with Dennis.
00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:19.279
Yes, yes.
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.359
And that was because of residencies, right?
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:22.720
Didn't you have a residency there?
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:30.720
Residency as well as um Dennis had a Fulbright, and I had an opportunity to do some uh lithographs in London.
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:31.119
Yeah.
00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:35.119
Um, and I was able to take off time from teaching, you know.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:35.599
Yeah.
00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:40.720
So that was interesting because I I had more makeshift studios, right?
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:51.759
And I'm looking, although, you know, you know, with Dennis, who's 17th century Dutch art historian, I was I was really steeped in a certain kind of figuration.
00:18:52.000 --> 00:19:09.839
Um, but and then those drawings that I was doing, which were a combination of mirror images, reflections, and mirrors, I found that I was still doing a lot of drawings, but I was working out so many of the ideas in the drawings that when it came time to do the paintings, it seemed a little dead to me.
00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:13.039
It's like the drawings seemed way more alive.
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:24.000
And so I started to separate out the drawings from the paintings, and the paintings became uh more gestural and more intuitive.
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:25.119
Oh, that's interesting.
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:25.359
Yeah.
00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:30.559
And less based upon something that I had already worked out and prepared.
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.880
It was just, I don't know, it just felt like I was just copying what I had already done.
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:38.000
Yeah, I can I can see that, like in an indirect method, right?
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:38.960
Right, right.
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:52.799
And so it's interesting, even though like the images, the imagery or what I'm really interested in hasn't really changed that much because back then I was still doing a lot of work based upon trees and based upon the environment and movement of water.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.119
Oh, I I didn't know that you were doing that back then.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:55.440
Wow.
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:59.519
Yeah, and so I'm still doing that, but it's become more atmospheric.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.799
And it's um the scales changed.
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:16.160
I mean, I do some really large paintings, and it's more abstract, and it's way more abstract, but it's interesting, it's more abstract, but it's not that it's not narrative because it's it's so to me, I think it's a hybrid.
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:20.000
So to me, it's like it's an abstracted representation, right?
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.160
Um, that's how I would describe it, you know?
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.000
Like you are basing it on representational imagery.
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.799
Yeah, and because I kayak a lot, yeah.
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.960
So, you know, one of the things I wrote down that I'm a city rat, but I'm a country mouse.
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:37.839
Yeah, that's a great book.
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.559
I love that.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:42.720
You know, I go to West Virginia a lot.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:43.119
Yeah.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:49.680
And I spend time there, and then I go up to Maine a lot and I go, I go on the Anacostia kayaking here.
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.759
So I'm always looking at like the palette changing and the sky changing.
00:20:53.839 --> 00:21:02.160
And then um, I got really interested in like space exploration and images that were coming back from the web and the Hubble telescopes.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.079
Oh, that's really interesting.
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:21.680
Yeah, and so I started, and but but I should go, so you know, in answering the in looking at your question, um quite a few years ago, I was invited to Texas to do to jury show and to be part of um an exhibition and a school.
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:29.519
And anyway, so I went there, and when I was, and because my mom had spent m much of her youth in Texas, but I had never been to Texas.
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:31.759
So I was really curious about Texas, right?
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:37.359
And so when I was there, there was an article in the local paper about the Dust Bowl.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:38.079
Oh wow.
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:44.559
And suddenly this idea of like stuff in the stuff in the atmosphere.
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:45.519
Oh, wow.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:49.839
Like you could see this dust all the way to New York City, right?
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:50.160
Wow.
00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:53.440
In um Oklahoma and western Texas.
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:59.759
And that just got me thinking about things that we maybe perceive with our senses, but we don't necessarily see.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.039
With our eyes.
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:02.559
Right.
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:03.920
So that's the way.
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:21.440
So that really began to make me shift my paintings more and more about, you know, you feel something or you feel a breeze or you see a color moving through space, but it's not necessarily, it might be a bird that's moved, you know, a cardinal.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:23.359
And there's oh, I love that thought.
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:24.240
That's so beautiful.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:26.160
The streaking of red or something like that.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:32.000
So that's still pretty much where the um the paintings and then like the series behind me.
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:34.079
I don't know if you can see that.
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:34.799
Yes.
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:37.119
Is that what do you call that series?
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:38.480
Is that the floating world series?
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:42.319
Like floating world, and then the top ones are floating world as well.
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:42.799
Okay.
00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:48.799
The bottom, so they're also a bit formal in that the bottom ones are also about the color reel.
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:54.319
And the idea of saturating something with just one color.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:57.920
So it's like red and yellow and you know, complementary colors.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.079
So that's what the bottom one was sort of about.
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:02.960
Taking a similar image, but shifting the palette.
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:11.359
And then just by shifting the palette, how we see it differently, yeah, and it becomes something warm, something cool, something somber, something joyful, you know.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:18.079
Where the top ones are about the idea of space, the the circular ones, and they're as if you you look through.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.759
Um uh and how large are those tondos on the wall?
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:27.279
Well, the top these are 36, but the show that I had in January, some of them were 60 inches.
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:27.680
Wow.
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:33.039
And let me tell you, stretching inches.
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:35.680
Oh, you were so really they're stretched on canvas.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:57.359
Yes, but I did was I bought these um these stretcher bars that came at arc arch arcs, and you they were like jigsaw puzzles, and you put them together and they're two levels, and then you take canvas and you stretch onto the thing is when you pull it on the side, you have to pull it perfectly perpendicular, or you get like these dimples all along the edge of the thing.
00:23:57.839 --> 00:23:58.559
I can imagine.
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:01.759
Oh they're a lot some of these are on panel.
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.920
Yeah, I was gonna say that's a lot easier when they have the when they come already made.
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:14.079
Some of these are some of these actually, the all the red one, um, actually the light in here is not very good, is is canvas.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:24.400
But I think a 60-inch tondo is so your headspace is less about oh yeah, is less about um abstraction and more about atmospheric.
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:26.000
Right, right.
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:28.240
It's not abstraction abstraction.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:29.359
So interesting.
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:29.680
Yeah.
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:31.440
No, not at all.
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:36.480
It's um it's about it's it's the subject matter specifically.
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:36.960
Right.
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:42.559
It's the it's the color of the time of year per se.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:47.359
It's what I perceive, it's um things moving through space.
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:48.799
You know, I garden.
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:50.319
Right.
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:51.680
I love gardening, yeah.
00:24:51.920 --> 00:25:11.839
So it's the changing of the seasons, you know, and reflecting those in um the brushwork sometimes that maybe reflects uh looking at natural forms, okay, but not literally doing a contour, but the the gesture of it.
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:13.359
Oh wow.
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:17.119
That's I mean, that's mind-blowing because that's not that's not how I thought of it at all.
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:18.559
So that's interesting.
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:19.680
That's fantastic.
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:25.759
Uh was um uh Monet's Girny series, you know, at all part of your influences?
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:31.519
I I mean, you know, when I first became aware of them, I don't think I was thinking my work.
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:40.079
Yeah, but you know, I love the I love looking at that work and the idea of someone said my work is like abstract impressionism.
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:41.359
Abstract impression.
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:42.880
Oh wow, that's interesting.
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:45.039
Yeah, yeah, I could see that, yeah.
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:59.920
And then for a while there were actually floating elements, literal floating elements, um, uh as if like a storm had come up and lifted uh a leaf or lifted um a flower form or something like that.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:12.319
So I was juxtaposing those with um sort of more abstract grounds and using those to move your eye from one part of the canvas to another part of the canvas.
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.640
There were indicators, you know.
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:17.680
But I've I've gotten rid of those every once in a while.
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:22.880
The funny thing is, every once in a while I do get a craving to put in recognizable images.
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:23.759
Really?
00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:26.400
Yeah, I do, and I haven't done that yet.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.720
Are you thinking about merging them together?
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:32.240
Well, I tried doing that a number of years ago, and it was okay.
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:35.039
Um it's just And what did you try?
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:36.160
What was well?
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.799
It was um I'll just show you.
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:40.160
These are from a few years ago.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.160
Okay, let's see.
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:45.920
Oh wow, uh-huh.
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:47.279
Yes, okay, yes.
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:48.960
I promote that series.
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.160
Yeah, I love the drawings especially that you did of that series.
00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:54.240
And so then, like for instance, here's something.
00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:55.680
Take me around my studio.
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:56.319
This is great.
00:26:57.119 --> 00:26:57.519
I love it.
00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:59.440
You see the drawing on the wall?
00:26:59.599 --> 00:26:59.920
Yes.
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:02.160
Okay, so these are marshlands.
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:03.440
Oh, yeah.
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:04.960
I love that marshland.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:09.119
And I right, and so there's one up there.
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:10.400
Yeah.
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:10.960
Okay.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:19.920
And um, you know, like these are some smaller, rounder ones, and you know, the one on top is really looking at flower forms.
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:24.160
So I think that, but hold on, that is an abstraction then.
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:35.759
If you are looking at a flower form and getting a cloud-like form, you know, right, cloud-like forms, you know, looking at like clouds and um it sounds it sounds so banal.
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:42.880
No, but I can see how I can definitely see the, you know, the moment you mentioned that you were inspired by space, I totally got it.
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:43.599
Right.
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:49.200
Actually, there's there's a series that I have in mind, um, kind of working with some space imagery as well.
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:51.599
So that is, I mean, the moment you said it, like it clicked for me.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:28:06.480
And it's really interesting because I was coming at it from a different direction, thinking that you were, you know, that you had transitioned from realism to more abstraction while working with subject matter, you know, uh abstracting out certain subject matter representation.
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:12.720
And I really see now that no, it's really more, uh, it's really more atmospheric, like you were, like you were saying.
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:14.720
And so I mean that that that's perfect.
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:15.759
That really clicks.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:16.799
That's really beautiful.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:20.480
Yeah, it's just I I you know, I had written something.
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:26.079
Um the idea of uh, let's see, what was that?
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:27.680
Let me see that.
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:34.079
Oh yeah, I wrote abstraction became more about the essence and less about the specifics.
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:36.160
Right.
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:44.079
So it's the impression and impression, you know, it's the suggestion of things rather than the actual telling of what it is.
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:49.039
It's giving you the tools to sort of go where you want to go.
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:49.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:50.960
Oh, I can definitely see that.
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:59.839
But you know, I mean not to be vague, you know, that's not my goal to be vague, but um people say, Oh God, I see this and this, or I see this and this.
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:05.519
And it's just yeah, it's almost, you know, I mean, simple way is like a Rorschach test, you know.
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:06.960
But that's the best, isn't it?
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:11.680
Like when people can bring things to their experiences in their interpretation.
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:17.359
I think that's really that's when you're involving the audience with your artwork, and that's what we all want.
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:17.920
Right.
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:23.119
And and when the piece, you know, when the piece leaves the studio, it's not about me, it's about you.
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:24.160
Exactly.
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:24.799
Yeah.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:28.319
You bring life, you bring life to the to the artwork.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:33.279
The artwork is inert until somebody looks at it, sitting, you know, in storage somewhere.
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:40.400
I remember there was um, there's a painting in the National Gallery by Raphael of a banker, right?
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:50.000
And I remember reading an essay about how portraits and things like that don't really exist until there are eyes on the piece.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:52.240
And I thought that's really true of all art.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:52.799
It doesn't matter.
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:53.759
It's so interesting.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:59.519
It's an art, you know, until the you mean until the gaze, until the gaze happens.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:00.720
Absolutely.
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:05.200
Oh wow, wow, and that's like this energy that happens between you and the work.
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:06.240
Oh, that's beautiful.
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:12.240
That's probably like when you went to see the Chuck Close, it's just it's just a bunch of marks.
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:14.720
Yes, yes, or thumbprints, right?
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:17.359
But you bring your whole history to it.
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:17.680
Yeah.
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:18.559
Oh, that's right.
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:24.319
I remember I was out kayaking and I looked up and there was this great cloud that came by, and that reminds me of the great cloud.
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:30.799
And if it I hadn't it had nothing to do with the cloud, it you brought that to the to the painting too.
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:31.680
That's beautiful.
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:39.839
Actually, um uh my previous guest on the on the podcast was Kathleen Speranza, who I've taken some classes with, and um, she had this question.
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:43.519
She asked us what we thought about like a rose, like what it represented to us.
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:53.279
And um, for me, that's one of the things that I love about still life is that you see the lifespan right in front of you, you know, the birth and and the blossom and then the decay.
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:54.559
Like I love all of it.
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:57.680
I like the entire vanitas theme, you know.
00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:03.839
And um, it's it's very much those are my life experiences, those are the things that I'm bringing to to the painting itself.
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:04.240
Right.
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.319
And when that little light bulb went off, that was uh a big moment for me.
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.000
And also with still life, because I did a lot of still lives early on.
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:20.640
Yeah, um, you also make it a charged object by focusing on it and isolating it and painting.
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:34.720
Yeah, you know, so that's another way of bringing some kind of magic to, you know, that I mean if you look at Mirandi's, you know, Mirandi's still like these simple objects, right?
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:43.920
Yeah, but that are so elegiac and um poetic that we could focus on anything and find poetry in it.
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.400
Yeah, just it's it's just a vehicle, right?
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:50.559
It's a vehicle for the for the artists.
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:51.440
Yeah.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.680
Um so uh let's see.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:56.400
So a few things about you had asked about residencies.
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:09.119
Yes, I I'm I'm curious as um as an artist myself, a practicing artist, to kind of bring up subjects with people, with other artists um as a mentoring kind of thing for the community.
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:10.240
So, what do you feel?
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:11.680
What's the value of residencies?
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:17.839
Like since you talked about how that's really something that um you focus on more in MFAs, right?
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.039
And I didn't get that.
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:23.200
And maybe some other people in the uh in the audience don't have an MFA.
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:25.440
Talk talk to us about that, the importance of a residency.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:35.359
About residencies, um, first of all, they they they take you out of your comfort zone in terms of where you're living, right?
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.920
And and also all residencies are different.
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:42.400
Some of them you're the only person in a place, and sometimes you're with a large group of people.
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:49.039
So if you're a large group of people, then you have really interesting, and you might have writers, um, people working in different mediums.
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:57.519
So you you it's it's a networking thing, you know, and you have lots of conversation, lots of really intense critique and conversation about work.
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:13.519
So, and that's always good, you know, at no matter what stage you're at, whether you're a beginner or a mature artist, you know, it's always interesting to have another set of eyes on your work and you to look at somebody else's work because often when you're looking at someone else's work, it's also going through like, how does that fit into my work?
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:14.960
You know, you question yourself.
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:15.519
Yeah.
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:17.680
But to be honest, I think so.
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:27.680
I've done a number of these residencies, um more traditional, less traditional, but one of the best residencies I did was a fluke.
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:46.160
And what happened is um so there is an um, it's called Schultz Marine Lab, and it's off the coast of Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and it's the series of islands, and it's through the university, it was University of New Hampshire and Cornell.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:34:00.400
And what they did, they worked, they worked with students from those two schools and they studied sea mammals, they studied birds that were functioning on these islands, um, the the the uh Gulf of Maine, that's that area it's called.
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:01.039
That's beautiful.
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:04.960
So I was an artisan resident there for three summers in a row, okay?
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:05.599
Uh-huh.
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:10.000
And for me, what was great about that, it was like going back to school.
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:11.599
I had never taken those courses.
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:24.480
And so I would sit in on the lectures of these scientists talking about, you know, what's happening with the lobsters and what's happening with the sea mammals and what's happening with the birds and the birds being caught and tagged.
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:32.079
And and I just and so that made me think about my work as part of a larger universe a little bit more.
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:32.639
Wow.
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:33.039
Wow.
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:33.519
Uh-huh.
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:35.920
So I wasn't with other artists.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:36.159
Yeah.
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:41.039
Because I was the only artist there, but I was with other professors of the sciences.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:48.320
This is so fascinating because I I I didn't realize that you were already doing this body of work involved that's more environmental.
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:49.840
You know, that was your inspiration.
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:53.360
And so it sounds like it's been it's been your inspiration for a while, right?
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:54.079
When when was this?
00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:55.119
For a long time.
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:55.840
Yeah.
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:59.519
And so that was that was really seminal.
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:07.599
Um, and I and every chance I would get, you know, if they were doing like archaeology on an island, I'd, oh, can I go on the boat?
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:18.400
I was like this kid, you know, you know, or they would, or they would throw, it's called chum, which is um, you know, a child's yeah, like leftover food.
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:19.360
And right, right.
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:20.239
Smells great.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:25.280
And then we would get out on the on a boat and we would chuck it out into the sea.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:30.239
And then all these seagulls would come and they would just hover around it.
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:34.880
And just this, I mean, it was just fascinating to watch.
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:40.719
And then, you know, the seagulls when they were mating and and and and just the history of these.
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:53.679
I mean, I just found this stuff really interesting and like taking out the intestines of these mammals and stretching them out, and I don't know, I just, you know, not having been raised in the sciences, it was really it was really fascinating.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:56.320
And and the body of work did you do based on that?
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:57.840
Like what came from that?
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.400
It was not that different from what I'm doing now.
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:09.760
It was looking at color, um, space, water, uh, movements of water, um, waves, tides.
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:16.559
So the formal aspects of painting through through the lens of uh uh nature.
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.119
Yeah, yeah, that's a good way of putting it, Suzanne.
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:19.679
Absolutely.
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:23.519
So that was probably one of the best ones that I did.
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:26.400
And that wasn't like a one that I networked.
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:27.599
Do you know what I mean?
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:30.559
It was just it was just like I was going back to school again.
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:31.360
I was a kid again.
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:33.920
And how soon were you doing uh residencies?
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:36.320
Like from the time that you graduated with your MFA?
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.320
Okay, no, oh no, no, no.
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:43.679
I didn't start doing them until uh maybe 15 years ago.
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:45.599
No, I didn't I didn't do them.
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:50.960
Part of it is that you know, in the summer, well, I would work, teach, or whatever.
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:54.719
And in the summertime, I've always traveled a lot.
00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:04.079
So um, you know, I go up to Maine a lot, I rent a cabin up there, and that was like a little private residency, you know.
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:06.559
And your mom, well, your mom was from there, right?
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:08.320
Or family connection.
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:08.880
Right.
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:09.760
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:10.719
That's beautiful.
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:17.119
And and then um, and then we did, I don't think you were at school, I think it was be after you left.
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.079
We did a project for a month in Berlin.
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:21.679
Yeah, that was after I left.
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:24.000
Oh wow, yeah, we did and that was great.
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:30.639
We brought students and we did, and so that was a residency, and the students could do projects, and we did projects, so that was really great.
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:43.039
And then um, I'm trying to think, uh, and then with some colleagues, Tom who shares the studio, we formed Working Man Collective and we went out to Butte Montana, and we were looking at super fun sites.
00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:45.360
Oh, it is beautiful, yeah.
00:37:45.599 --> 00:38:29.199
And uh snapping chalk lines and you know, I mean, stuff that had nothing to do with my work, but still informing me about space and um, you know, meeting people, and then we, you know, so there's been all kinds of like projects that have really nothing to do with my work, but I'm sort of interested in community and how people we did a piece where we build bird houses and we and we installed them on 14th Street quite a few years ago, and and they were for we we had done research where all the birds that were migrating through Washington, DC, and we built different kinds of bird houses for them and we opened them up, and then we had to take them down because we they hadn't gotten it was through WPA, they hadn't gotten the right permits.
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:40.000
So then we ended up taking the bird houses and we brought them down to North to Dennis's Museum, and we put them in, they have a big like 300-acre park, and we just scattered them throughout the North Carolina Museum of Art.
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:44.960
Oh my goodness, that's fantastic! So that was interesting.
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:50.880
Yeah, yeah, it's just um I mean it's a the these residencies are an essential part of your resume, right?
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:55.920
As a as a professional artist, you would say, like a serious artist should have them on their resume.
00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:17.360
I think a I think a serious artist has to get out of their own zones and be exposed to hearing things and seeing things that maybe they have no obvious connection, but just by thinking about things differently, you make different choices in your studio.
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:22.800
Well, so yeah, yeah, I think you know, it's like I don't want to just talk to painters.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:23.360
Right.
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:25.599
I mean, that's just not that interesting to me.
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:26.320
I agree.
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.559
That's what the whole premise of this podcast is.
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:30.000
I think we can learn from each other.
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:41.199
You know, um, I did a series of paintings, uh part of these paintings, part of this um floating world, you know, it was really and nothing happened, but I reached out to NASA and to places like that.
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:49.039
And I don't know whether the timing was wrong, it was you know, COVID, but I thought it'd be really interesting to sort of have to somehow have some kind of relationship.
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:49.840
Oh, definitely.
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:55.119
And what about um the artwork that's now that they're putting on uh lunar modules, right?
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:56.800
That's ending up in space.
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:02.000
I mean, to be part of that project, maybe, you know, could be so that's really interesting to me.
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:20.400
Um and I don't know, it's just uh, you know, we were we we those of us that still have a painting drawing uh process, we retreat so much into ourselves, to our studios, yeah, that I think we need to counter that with being it's hard sometimes to get me out of the studio.
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:21.119
I totally agree.
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.760
It is because we know because it takes a lot of time.
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:24.400
It does.
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:26.239
A lot of focus time, right?
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:27.760
Right, right, right.
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:37.599
And then it's like, you know, and for me, kayaking has done that, has allowed me to sort of get out and you know, hear birds and you know, study the tides.
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:40.000
You have your best ideas when you're kayaking, right?
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:40.719
Don't they say that?
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.119
I do, I do, I do.
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:47.280
Um I don't know, just just I mean, as artists, we look at the world.
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:47.679
Yeah.
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:51.280
So what is your what is a typical Janice Goodman day for you?
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:52.960
Like an ideal day?
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:58.239
Yeah, well, there's an ideal day would be um, well, I'm not a real early riser.
00:40:59.199 --> 00:40:59.679
Yeah.
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:02.320
I stay up way too late.
00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:08.559
Um breakfast, then come to the studio and um and work.
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:10.400
And what up about what time?
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:12.719
I probably get to the studio by 11.
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:13.360
11.
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:13.840
Okay, yeah.
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:15.440
Yeah, get to the studio about 11.
00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:17.199
I usually stay here till about seven.
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:17.679
Okay.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:22.000
You know, I stay here till seven, then I go home and either meet friends for dinner or have dinner.
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:25.199
I don't watch, I don't watch TV very much.
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:26.639
Oh, that's really interesting.
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:27.280
Yeah.
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:29.119
I I I don't watch any TV.
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:36.719
I do watch movies occasionally and I like going to I love going to the theater, you know, and I'm a big, big, big theater person.
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.639
I go to the theater probably more than I go to the movies.
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:41.039
Yeah.
00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:41.840
Oh wow.
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:44.559
Yeah, I go to the theater a lot, a lot.
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:48.239
And and part, and so this I'm just gonna make a plug.
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:53.599
So the Shakespeare Theater is putting on the Leonardo da Vinci notebooks.
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:56.320
Oh, opening October 2nd.
00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:02.960
And Mary Zimmerman, who's this amazing, amazing director, producer, she is mounting it.
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:10.960
It had been in Chicago, and so I've been in touch with them, and I'm trying to get an evening where I could bring Corcoran students.
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:16.639
And so it's all about movement and dance and light and his and and his inventions.
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:26.800
Um, so I find theater just way more uh engaging for I love that um because of all the interrelationships of the visuals.
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:29.599
It's not just the acting.
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:31.599
Is it something you've considered for yourself?
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:32.719
Have you considered acting?
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:38.079
But I had I have been going to theater for probably 25 years.
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:52.159
I've been a regular, you know, when I'm going to New York for Thanksgiving, I already have tickets to see the play about um Moses, who was the big architecture, uh architect guy and changed the landscape of New York, and we're going to see Tom Stoppard play.
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:53.039
Oh, wow.
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:54.320
Stoppard.
00:42:54.800 --> 00:43:00.079
Yeah, so I just it's it's it's like paintings and stuff coming to life for me.
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:05.599
I find that really fascinating, but you're you're doing it as an observer and not as a participant.
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:06.159
Right.
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:06.400
Right.
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:11.760
Are there any other creative endeavors that you do outside of painting or outside of fine art?
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:14.400
Outside of fine arts, creative.
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:17.199
Any crafts or anything that you regularly enjoy doing?
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:18.159
That's interesting.
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:19.679
I don't, I garden.
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:21.199
Garden, yeah, I do too.
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:23.039
No, I don't, you know.
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:28.719
It I think because working here is tedious.
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:33.920
And um, the one thing I w I wish I had learned, I wish I had learned to play the piano.
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:36.079
It's never too late, Janice.
00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:38.480
You know, I thought that that would be sort of fun.
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:39.760
Yeah, I agree.
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:42.400
And play the piano because I love music.
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:48.079
I w I mean I don't have music on now, but I have music going the entire time in my studio when I'm teaching.
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:51.679
Last music in the class, all kinds of music, electronic.
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:57.679
Oh, yeah, there's a lot of crossover with that, with music and painting, you know, with the chords and everything, you know.
00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:58.559
So yeah.
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:05.920
So I do but I no, I it's funny, I don't, I don't have like a crafts, a handy, handicraft thing.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.119
I I cook.
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:07.519
Yeah.
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:08.320
I do cook.
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:10.960
I'm in labor, but I'm you know, I do cook.
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:12.320
So cook in gardening.
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:14.400
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm there too.
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:16.400
I'd like to adopt some other things.
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:22.480
Because I think it's you know, thinking creatively in a different vein, I'm sure adds it, I've heard it feeds.
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:28.480
Yeah, you learn more things to bring into uh into your painting practice in a whole different way and look at things differently.
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:32.320
And you know, I think uh I think that's something that I would I would like as well.
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:34.320
Like maybe do more writing or poetry.
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:36.000
Yeah, well I do do writing.
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:37.679
I do do writing and poetry.
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:38.639
Oh, you do?
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:39.920
Okay, all right.
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:42.960
I don't publish it anywhere, I just do it for myself.
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:44.239
But I do Oh, I love it.
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:44.639
I love it.
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:47.920
And do you feel like that's I mean, it's all intertwined, right?
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:59.119
Well, you know, having taught for so many years and being fairly articulate, um, it's another way to use language outside of the visual language.
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:00.480
It's and I read a lot.
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:01.360
I'm a big reader.
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:02.320
I do too, yeah.
00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:04.880
Everything, you know, fiction, nonfiction.
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:08.320
Um so yeah, I like to write.
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:08.960
I do.
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:12.239
I have lots of books that are filled with different kinds of writings.
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:15.119
And and have you considered bringing the writing into the painting?
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:23.119
You know, that's so you um when I was in Holland and I was doing graphite, the graphite drawings, there was a line of text.
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:24.800
I remember that, yes, yes.
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:29.679
And that was um I still have one of your invitations hanging in my studio, by the way.
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:37.280
So that was um that was the closest I came to incorporating text into my work.
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:44.239
It but the thing is, then it became more like a poster in a way, even though they were graphite drawings.
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:51.920
So I mean, I thought they were okay and I think they worked together, but you know, it for some reason I felt the need to do that.
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:52.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:56.880
You know, like I remember one, and and then I would play with type.
00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:10.320
Um and and I would come up with these sort of poetic titles, like one was like in search of a season, another was had to do with things turning into sculpture and silence.
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:13.119
And so, you know, they were poetic music.
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:22.960
Yeah, I I um I'm uh looking at a lot of poetry and uh gathering inspiration for for painting titles, and apparently that's nothing new.
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:28.719
Artists have been doing that for quite a while, and but when I discovered that, I was like, oh, that's so brilliant, you know.
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:30.400
Uh like Joan Mitchell, right?
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:34.880
Here's okay, so here's an artist that uh did you see the show in Baltimore?
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:35.760
Yeah.
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:37.119
Phenomenal, right?
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:38.400
Phenomenal exhibit.
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:50.480
And I was I I had thought in the back of my head that maybe that was also a partial influence, but that was when I was thinking of your work more abstractly, um, and and less more of the subject matter driving it.
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:55.119
Uh, but she she was working a lot with you know, with natural subject matter, right?
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:58.159
With sunflowers and things like that, you know.
00:46:58.559 --> 00:46:59.119
Oh yeah.
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:03.440
I mean, I thought that was an amazing amazing, amazing, amazing uh example.
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:04.960
Or it wasn't in DC.
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:06.400
What's that?
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:08.320
I'm sorry, it wasn't in DC.
00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:09.039
Yeah.
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:11.280
You know, I only got up to see it once.
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:13.920
If it hadn't had been in DC, I would have gone a few times.
00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:14.800
Yeah, yeah.
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:17.119
You know, same here, same here.
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:19.920
I only saw it, I only saw that one time, but it was great.
00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:21.039
It was great.
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:26.159
Yeah, and I I I think I feel like it was um gonna was it gonna travel somewhere else, maybe to to Paris or something.
00:47:26.239 --> 00:47:28.639
I think it was gonna be international.
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:33.119
I'm not I'm not sure, but maybe lived in France for so long.
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.719
That was yeah, you know, fascinating to hear that.
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:44.639
Tell me um to to segue a little bit, tell me about uh working with uh ETA with the WTA around town.
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:45.599
How did that start?
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:52.000
So that so years ago at the Corcoran, there was a colleague, I don't know if you remembered Kendall Buster.
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:53.280
Yes, I do, of course.
00:47:53.599 --> 00:48:03.679
Kendall and I were really good friends, and Kendall and I would meet up and and we would just we we went to um the Anne Marie Sculpture Garden down on Solomon's Island once.
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:05.920
Yeah, I've I'm familiar with that, yes.
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:11.440
Okay, and we realized like that we could critique a fire hydrant.
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:17.920
Okay, that we were just always talking about things, you know, it's the way that moved and the color and this and that.
00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:29.679
Okay, so all right, so I think Kendall was in a show at the Krieger, and there was, and they were covering it for, I guess, or before I joined Aroundtown, they were covering for Roundtown.
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:39.280
And the woman who was at the was the producer at the time sent asked Kendall, because the person who I sort of replaced, Bill Dunlap, was really moving to Florida more.
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:40.719
He wasn't in D very much.
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:42.079
I remember Bill, yeah.
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:47.519
Yeah, so you know, Bill's a great painter, yeah, and you know, very much on the art scene back then.
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:52.800
And so um, this woman, Nancy, asked Kendall, do you know anybody that can talk about art?
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:58.480
And Kendall said, Oh yeah, you should think, you know, she can talk about anything, right?
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:00.960
And so So Kendall didn't do it herself.
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:02.320
Kendall was a part of it.
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:07.920
She was this one of the sculpture sculptors that was that Nancy was covering for a piece.
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:08.800
Oh, I see.
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:09.280
Okay.
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:12.639
Okay, and I think Kendall may have already moved to Richmond.
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:13.360
I'm not sure.
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:15.039
She may have already moved to Richmond.
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:23.280
And so Nancy called me up and said, Oh, we'd like we'd like for you to do to to do the around town segment.
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:26.960
And I said, First of all, I'd never done anything like this before, ever.
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:32.320
I mean, I've stood in front of a class for 20 years, but I, you know, which is a show, you know, it's right.
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:36.400
I said, you don't know what I look like, you don't know what I sound like.
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:39.440
Really, it's like, you know, you know nothing about me, you know.
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:41.519
And she said, well, Kendall, this and that.
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:47.039
And she said, we want you to interview David Levy about the Biennale.
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:48.159
Oh, wow.
00:49:48.400 --> 00:49:52.480
I said to her, Why would I interview the director and not the curator of the show?
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:52.960
Right.
00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:55.760
Right?
00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:01.599
And she said, Oh, right, of course, you know, and then you realize, hello, right?
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:02.320
Right.
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.960
So I interviewed Jonathan Binstock, you know, who was curating the show.
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:09.119
Oh, wow.
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:14.639
And then um, and we would we would sit on, we were a big panel then.
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:21.119
Now we're just, you know, individuals with like, you know, they're called interstitials, these little two and a half minute spots.
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:40.159
And then um we were covering, so we would cut, we would talk about a lot of different things, theater and music, and we were covering a theatrical, we were covering some, I think it may have been a Shakespeare piece, and a really good friend of mine, Sarah Marshall, who's a local, really prominent local actor, she was playing a male role.
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:44.239
Okay, and this is before the he, she, her, they yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:45.760
They, you know.
00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:46.400
Yeah.
00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:53.440
And so I I knew that, so I went to the play, and I remember I said, Sarah, you gotta feed me some information here, you know.
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:58.079
So I have some, you know, some things that I could throw out that people would never know, right?
00:50:59.039 --> 00:50:59.440
Right?
00:50:59.679 --> 00:50:59.920
Yeah.
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:02.639
You just went to see it, you just would know about this stuff.
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:03.679
So she did.
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:12.239
She, you know, and so you know, we're all talking, and then there I am, like putting throwing out like this behind the scenes kind of stuff.
00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:15.519
Oh wow, they must have loved you.
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:17.360
You had all these connections.
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:21.840
Yeah, so it just it worked, and they said, Yeah, would you like to do more of it?
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:30.159
And the thing about it is that it's a lot of work, but it gets me to see things that I wouldn't ordinarily cover.
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:40.639
Like we're gonna we're we haven't done it for two and a half years, and so we're starting up next week, a week from Thursday, we're gonna be doing our first taping, and it's gonna be a little bit different again.
00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:44.239
And so I'm always looking for things that are slightly different.
00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:48.480
And there's a new museum in town called the town called The Victims of Communism.
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:49.599
Oh, what?
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:50.880
I haven't heard of this.
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:51.280
Uh-huh.
00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:53.119
It just opened in June, right?
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:56.800
And I thought, is this like some right wing, you know?
00:51:57.119 --> 00:51:57.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:04.880
And I mean, it is funded by the Heritage Foundation and you know, sort of more right, but it's a very interesting museum, you know.
00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:09.039
History, I think, is worth it for people to go.
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:17.679
Because, you know, anyway, so I'm covering that, and then the Kusama show at the um the Persha one, because everybody loves Kusama.
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:20.639
And um I have yet to see it in person.
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:21.440
Isn't that horrible?
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:22.079
I need to it.
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:24.159
I I I don't even know if it's too late to get tickets.
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:28.239
Did you see it when it was there in Twitter?
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:30.639
No, I haven't seen it at all.
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:35.360
I I didn't yeah, I didn't see it when somebody broke broke something, right?
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:37.199
Like, you know, I didn't I didn't see that show.
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:39.360
I need to get tickets.
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:42.000
Yeah, and it it, you know, read the Wall Text.
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:43.039
They're they're smart.
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:45.280
Yeah, and then I'm covering at the Corcoran.
00:52:45.440 --> 00:52:48.960
They have a show of Robert Stackhouse, who was a sculptor that taught at the Corcoran.
00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:49.679
I didn't know him.
00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:50.079
Yeah.
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:51.360
And then the Washington.
00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:52.480
So I'm covering those.
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:55.199
So it it gets, and then sometimes I cover theater.
00:52:55.280 --> 00:53:00.960
And so it just How often are you because because there's several different reviewers, right, that come on.
00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:02.639
So how often are you?
00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:04.960
So usually it was about once a month.
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:08.639
We would review like three different um museums.
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:09.199
Okay.
00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:12.159
And so we would have this round table conversation, right?
00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:23.760
And and then they would be put in, plugged into channel 26 or maybe 32, you know, at various times, like two o'clock in the morning, you know, 10 to 2 in the morning, you turn it on, and there we are talking.
00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:25.679
You know, there was no schedule.
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:27.280
Yeah, that's why I never catch them.
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:34.320
Yeah, they need to fill us, you know, like this has been brought to you by, you know, public broadcasting, whatever.
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:39.599
Then they'll have that, you know, the music, and then there'll be one of us or a few of us talking, and that's three minutes.
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:41.119
So yeah, yeah, that's so cool.
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:42.320
I've found them on the internet.
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.920
So I I have come across some of them, like the one you did during COVID.
00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:46.480
Right.
00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:54.719
And the thing is, I did hundreds of them, and they don't they only have things back to 2019, and I've been doing it for like 15 years.
00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:57.679
Really, like I did a piece about the Buffalo Bridge.
00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:13.679
I love those pieces where I'm on a bicycle and I'm bicycling from Georgetown to DuPont Circle, and I'm talking about the Buffalo Bridge, and you know, the artist and what it was based on, and then I did a piece about the solar decathlon that was in wearing a hard hat.
00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:16.639
And I would love to do things that were a little bit quirkier.
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:18.559
Yeah, that's so cool.
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:20.400
Oh, I would love to see those.
00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:23.519
They have to back them up, they have to digitize them and put them up.
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:29.920
I know they used to be up, but I um then there's a nude producer, and he said, no, we only go back to 2019.
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:37.760
It's like, but COVID hit a 2020, so we didn't do anything for like two years, and we did a few remotely, and I think those are sort of a disaster.
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:38.239
Yeah.
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:43.679
Well, as somebody that's so involved in around town, tell me about around town.
00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:46.960
Tell me about, I mean, Washington, DC and the art scene.
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:52.079
I'll be honest with you, as a realist artist, it's always been um my mic keeps falling.
00:54:52.880 --> 00:55:02.159
As a realist artist, it's always been kind of a little bit of a a conundrum to me because it's not, you know, it's it's it's seems to be more a satellite of kind of like the scene in New York City.
00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:05.679
So there's not a whole lot of realism being represented in the DC area.
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:13.840
And I, you know, I never really I I personally ran more in in realist circles, and that's really what I was concerned about for a long time.
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:15.360
And I'm I'm expanding that.
00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:19.119
So talk to me a little bit about the Washington, DC art scene and how you view it.
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:27.760
Well, um, you know, I mean, there are lots of little variables, Suzanne.
00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:30.880
You know, one is there was a for a long time there were a lot of galleries.
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:31.519
Okay.
00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:35.519
And that's gone because real estate, that's part of it.
00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:43.119
Real estate internet has really, you know, so many people are showing their work on different social media sites, right?
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:43.360
Right.
00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:43.760
Right.
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:48.320
Um, and galleries really can't afford the gallery space.
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:58.320
Um, so the concentration of galleries that used to be like on P Street or Q Street or R Street or 15th Street or whatever, downtown 7th Street, they're all gone.
00:55:58.400 --> 00:55:59.199
So they're scattered.
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:10.239
And when you don't have um a fair number of galleries in one place, you sort of lose, I don't know, you just lose a sense of like Chelsea or Soho, you know.
00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:10.559
Right.
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:12.320
So that's been a big problem for us.
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:14.000
There just aren't the galleries.
00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:15.360
There are not the galleries.
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:19.920
So it doesn't have the draw anymore for people to come to openings and that kind of that's all gone, right?
00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:20.719
With COVID?
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:26.400
I mean, there are openings, um, but you know, for two and a half years now, we haven't had openings.
00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:27.039
Yeah.
00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:27.599
Right.
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:29.119
And put up shows.
00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:29.599
Yeah.
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:31.519
Uh so that's a problem.
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:35.599
Also, the local museums do not really interact.
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:37.920
I mean, they it's Phillips a little bit, they really do.
00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:40.400
They did, they did their, they did one.
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:47.119
They don't really, they're really um look down, I think, upon local artists.
00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:47.920
I do.
00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:49.199
Yeah, that's my goodness.
00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:50.159
I agree with you.
00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:52.400
I think the Phillips is the only one that I know of that has done some.
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:54.239
Well, no, that's not that's not true.
00:56:54.400 --> 00:57:00.159
The I mean, the uh I always mispronounce it, but the outween beachiever, you know, the portrait competition.
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:01.920
That's open to everybody nationally.
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:03.599
Yeah, but that's not true.
00:57:03.679 --> 00:57:08.880
And then the women's museum has done some things, but you know, there, but not a lot.
00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:14.000
Um, and the biennial hasn't really happened at the Corcoran, and that was a local thing for a long time.
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:15.039
That was a really local thing.
00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:16.719
I didn't realize that was a local thing.
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:21.280
That's who supports it is um Jack Rasmussen at the Cats and Center.
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:32.400
Oh he probably supports because he always has on four shows: an international, um, uh maybe historical, a local artist, and a national artist.
00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:41.039
So of all the faces in the city, he's probably the best for really highlighting, you know, who we are, what we do, that kind of thing.
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:42.000
Oh, that's great.
00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:44.800
So, so definitely that's something artists should be following.
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:46.719
Is there any other what's going on at the end?
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:51.679
There's no other competitions that you can think of or anything that's no, and you know, that's what the Corcoran was about.
00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:56.719
Yeah, and then when the Corcoran sort of died, the Catson was rising.
00:57:56.800 --> 00:58:01.119
And Jack is a big proponent, had a gallery in the city for a long time.
00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:06.000
Um, and has a, you know, AU has an active art scene.
00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:15.599
So um, yeah, they're definitely uh and we just and the show that we just put on mentioned earlier about Bob Stackhouse.
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:20.000
So they engaged people people from the Washington Sculptures Sculptors Group.
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:23.760
So there were all these Washington sculptors that have that are particularly familiar to me.
00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:26.719
I feel like was he at the Corcoran when I was there, like the 90s?
00:58:27.039 --> 00:58:28.400
No, he was before us.
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:30.719
Why does I don't know why he sounds familiar?
00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:32.639
What's up?
00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:34.559
When did you come to the Corcoran?
00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:36.719
I was there from 92 to 96.
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:39.440
Yeah, no, no, he was there, I think, in the 80s.
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:40.159
Okay, okay.
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:41.519
70s and 80s.
00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:53.280
No, he was the butt you know, he was around and he did did these fabulous watercolors that are were depictions of his sculptures or sculptures to be, they were fabulous, really.
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:53.599
Yeah.
00:58:54.000 --> 00:59:00.000
Um I had not seen most of his sculptures, but I'd seen his large-scale watercolor drawings, which are great.
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:01.119
Oh wow, wow.
00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:01.840
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:03.440
So there were two of those.
00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:09.519
There's there's a sculpture, a watercolor based upon the sculpture, and then there's a like a blueprint piece.
00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:13.360
So in the in this new show that's opening that just opened, opened last week.
00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:14.079
Oh wow.
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:15.599
Okay, I'll definitely have to check that out.
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:17.199
And that's exciting that you're reviewing it.
00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:19.360
Anything else that you're gonna be involved in?
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:34.559
And like what what's on the horizon for you as far as exhibits, like showing your work and well, I I did a solo show last summer in Portland, and then I did a solo show at Gallery Neptune Brown on 14th Street, December into January.
00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:37.599
And then the next show that I'm in is a group show.
00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:41.119
It's at oh, this is interesting, it's at the McClellan Project for the Arts.
00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:41.519
Oh, sure.
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:48.719
And it's it's called Continuum, and it's artists who teach artists who you know, and I love that.
00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:54.960
I love that representatives from, although I'm the only person from Corcoran GW, and there are a lot of people from George Mason.
00:59:55.039 --> 01:00:00.239
I'm not sure how it was curated or how so that's the next somebody from George Mason did it.
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:03.760
I know someone has a relationship there, right?
01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:12.559
Um, so that's um that's opening the wait, is that opening this Thursday?
01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:17.440
Yeah, it's opening this Thursday.
01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:18.079
Oh wow.
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:19.760
Playing Project for the Arts.
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:27.840
So that's the the next thing I've got coming up, and then I'm in, you know, a WPA auction, but there's no shows on the horizon line.
01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:31.679
It's you know, it's something that you have to constantly work at.
01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:35.599
And I just get tired of working at it.
01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:40.800
Yeah, and how long, like the work that you're building for your solo shows, how long does that take you normally?
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:42.400
It's a couple of years.
01:00:42.559 --> 01:00:45.199
Yeah, I can't work for a show.
01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:47.360
I just have to work.
01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:53.199
And then a show will come up and I will have worked for two, three years and I'll have a body of work.
01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:57.519
Someone say you're gonna have a show, you know, like in December or something.
01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:00.079
I could not put together a new body of work for that.
01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:00.639
I couldn't do it.
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:03.039
Where's a lot of artists are motivated by that?
01:01:03.199 --> 01:01:04.159
Yeah, just not.
01:01:04.239 --> 01:01:05.679
I'm a slow plotter.
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:06.480
I am too.
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:08.400
I do work, you know.
01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:10.719
I rework work, I rework stuff.
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:12.480
Do you let it do you let it talk to you?
01:01:12.559 --> 01:01:15.039
Do you let it just sit there and just look at it for a while?
01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:16.079
I do that a lot.
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:17.119
Oh, absolutely.
01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:19.119
It's you know, I I said, Well, what do you need?
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:20.639
Why are you not, you know?
01:01:21.119 --> 01:01:21.519
Yeah.
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:24.000
Yeah, I'm exactly like that.
01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:24.400
Right.
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:24.719
I do.
01:01:24.800 --> 01:01:31.679
I am you don't subscribe to the to the belief that you need to have a serious artist needs to have a solo show every two years or something to that.
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:33.280
I've heard that said.
01:01:33.679 --> 01:01:34.000
No.
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:43.119
I mean, a lot of you know, really successful artists that have shows every two years, they're making a lot of money, or the galleries are making a lot of money.
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:43.440
Yeah.
01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:46.800
But and it depends on what you do.
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:52.079
You know, some people are really prolific and they can really crank it out, and that's their process.
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:54.639
Yeah, I'm a plotter.
01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:57.199
I just, you know, nah, I don't like this.
01:01:57.280 --> 01:01:58.719
No, that's the wrong shape.
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:02.800
It's not orange enough.
01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:05.119
No, this is too dark, this is too big.
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:09.519
It's and so I'm I'm constant or going back, I'm constantly reworking things.
01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:09.840
Yeah.
01:02:11.360 --> 01:02:14.800
So I'm not as I'm not market-driven.
01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:15.280
Yeah.
01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:27.039
I I I understand that because there's, you know, when you're working, especially if you're allowing things to kind of talk to each other, it's like each mark is a conversation with what was before it or you know what comes after it.
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:28.079
And there is a lot of thinking.
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:35.599
And for me, conceptually, well, not conceptually, but for me, like my process was always very driven about you know what I'm thinking.
01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:38.000
Like thinking takes a lot of time, you know.
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:40.559
A lot of the process, yeah.
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:43.519
Like generations ago, you would have sat back with a cigarette.
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:44.000
Yeah.
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:47.280
You know, now I just sit back with a piece of chocolate or something.
01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:48.079
Right, right.
01:02:48.719 --> 01:02:53.519
Snack in the studio and like look and think about it's like, is that working?
01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:54.079
Hmm.
01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:59.760
Let me go back and look at those other ones, you know, and then look at my photos and things and look at works that I've done.
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:02.239
Um it's it's very slow.
01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:06.960
I mean, sometimes I could just sit for 20 minutes, a half an hour, just looking and looking and looking.
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:08.400
And I mean, it's working.
01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:10.400
I'm not touching the canvas, right?
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:19.519
Or even, you know, going to see a show, going to see something and thinking, huh, I I haven't been using that much transparency.
01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:21.920
Then I'm gonna put more glaze in my yeah.
01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:27.199
I was just gonna say, looking at your work now, it looks very indirect and it looks like you're working a lot in in glazes.
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:27.679
Is that the problem?
01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:32.960
It's much, it's more transparent layers, putting one under another.
01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:33.599
Yeah.
01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:40.800
But that was probably the result of looking at somebody's work in a show and thinking, you know, I really like the way that creates space and the softness.
01:03:41.119 --> 01:03:44.320
Or the your residency is in Holland, I mean, honestly, you know.
01:03:44.559 --> 01:03:45.199
Right, right.
01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:47.199
Yeah, being there.
01:03:47.440 --> 01:03:48.559
Yeah, straight back to that.
01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:50.400
I mean, yeah, yeah, it's true.
01:03:50.480 --> 01:04:04.960
And and also having, you know, been married to a an art historian and spent so much time in museums and having studied art history so much, I know a lot about materials and I know a lot about history.
01:04:05.119 --> 01:04:07.840
So if suddenly I think, oh, what happens if I do that?
01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:12.559
I think, oh, wait a second, I should look at so-and-so's work.
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:16.320
You know, it could be from 40 years ago, but there was something in the work.
01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:18.960
So I have like this Rolodex in my head.
01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:20.239
Yeah, like a reservoir.
01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:22.159
How much art do you look at?
01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:24.079
Like, is that like a regular part of your process?
01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:25.920
Are you looking as much as you're painting?
01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:28.159
I used to look at a in a lot of books.
01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:32.800
I used to look and I get a lot of catalogs because I review these shows, and so which is great.
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:33.760
That's one of the benefits.
01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:36.159
I have like hundreds of catalogs of shows.
01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:39.599
But I tend to not look in books so much now.
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:41.440
I do tend to look a lot online.
01:04:41.920 --> 01:04:51.119
Look a lot on like when I was before we talked, I wanted to double check and I looked at Paul Wanner's work and David Park's work and Joe Mitchell's, and then I was looking at Rothko's work.
01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:59.280
And so and teaching in class, like if a student is doing something, I say, Oh, you should look at so-and-so's work, you know, and I'll draw and I'll, you know, put the work up on the screen.
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:01.440
And yeah, and those are the best instructors.
01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:10.159
I mean, Kathleen and I were talking about that in in the last podcast, but it's exactly those instructors that can see a thread in your work and then tell you, Oh, you should be good looking at this person.
01:05:10.239 --> 01:05:10.320
Right.
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:11.840
Pay attention to this and that.
01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:12.239
Right.
01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:13.679
That's fabulous that you do that.
01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:14.880
I remember you doing it with me.
01:05:15.119 --> 01:05:16.880
Yeah, well, that's that's interesting to me.
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:21.599
And you know, and then you say you see that, like, see how the way they're doing that?
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:25.119
Or now you could do that, but you could also do that, you know.
01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:27.440
So that's it's more informal looking.
01:05:27.519 --> 01:05:31.920
I mean, and I see a lot of shows, you know, I probably once a week I'm in a museum.
01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:32.400
Yeah.
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:34.639
And how's your social media presence?
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:36.079
How can people find you?
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:52.880
Uh well, I mean, I'm on Instagram and I'm on Facebook, and I have a website, which, you know, I have actually someone um uh who uh used to w was a student, um, Steve Eason.
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:57.599
I don't know if Steve was with, I don't know, you know, I carry years, yeah, right?
01:05:57.679 --> 01:05:59.440
Everything a lot of students, yeah.
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:00.559
Yeah.
01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:01.920
A lot of students, right?
01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:03.840
And a lot of students I've stayed in touch with.
01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:04.480
That's the other thing.
01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:08.800
It's like, you mean you're like I said, you're 50 now?
01:06:09.440 --> 01:06:10.480
What piece of you?
01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:13.679
I mean, that you've kept in contact with everybody, really.
01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:20.079
Um so Steve Eason, who's a like an IT guy, he has he helps me.
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:21.360
And we did a trade.
01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:24.800
We did a trade last year because he's a I you know, say, Steve, could you up?
01:06:25.119 --> 01:06:26.880
You know, I've got a complicated website.
01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:28.000
He uploads stuff for me.
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:29.199
He says, No, don't pay me.
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:31.519
So he came over and I gave him a drawing and a painting.
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:32.880
Oh wow, wow.
01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:33.599
Lucky guy.
01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:36.079
And so that made me feel good.
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:36.400
Yeah.
01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:41.440
I'll say, hey Steve, could you remove these and put these up and put this on my wet resume?
01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:43.119
So it's fairly up to date.
01:06:43.199 --> 01:06:56.159
It's not that up to date, but um I go in spurts when I have a sh like when I have a show coming up, I'll definitely post more images that are gonna be in the show, information about the show.
01:06:56.480 --> 01:06:59.840
Um I don't post things about what I'm eating.
01:07:00.559 --> 01:07:04.559
I don't I don't post I don't post my eggs.
01:07:05.199 --> 01:07:08.000
I posted just yesterday a souple I made with apples.
01:07:08.079 --> 01:07:11.360
So your son, and you post pictures of your son.
01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:12.000
Yes.
01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:16.639
Well, actually, I'm only on Facebook do I do that with the people that I'm friends with.
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:21.039
Um my public accounts, I I really don't, you know, I try not to do that.
01:07:21.519 --> 01:07:23.199
He also as a teenager, he doesn't want that.
01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:25.679
Sure, you know, absolutely.
01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:30.159
I I only post on Instagram my work, pretty much my work.
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:30.559
Yeah.
01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:38.800
Where Facebook I'll post a little bit more, you know, like, you know, if I've seen from West Virginia setting sun or something, or you know.
01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:39.360
Yeah.
01:07:39.519 --> 01:07:44.000
But yeah, Instagram I just tried it, but I could probably be a lot better.
01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:45.920
Yeah, well, we can all be a lot better.
01:07:46.079 --> 01:07:54.400
That's that's part of this, is like learning from everybody because it's it's really it's a full-time job doing the Instagram thing all on its own, you know, and they want constant content.
01:07:54.559 --> 01:07:56.559
And now they're influenced by TikTok.
01:07:56.639 --> 01:08:02.559
And so everybody has to make a, you know, what is it, seven second, you know, um seven second little video, you know?
01:08:03.039 --> 01:08:06.719
It's but do you but do you do TikTok?
01:08:06.800 --> 01:08:08.400
Have you done I'm not doing TikTok?
01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:13.920
I should I I should, I really should be, because it's really it's really a different audience, it's a whole different audience.
01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:20.079
It's a younger audience, you know, and so people are people, you know, like Facebook was the first one, right?
01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:21.680
And then people have left.
01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:31.359
There's a lot, I mean, there's a lot of older people on Facebook, and then they've all migrated to Instagram, and now even Instagram uh, you know, is trying to be TikTok and it's not TikTok.
01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:34.560
So the other thing is on LinkedIn.
01:08:34.640 --> 01:08:36.000
I'm not as active on LinkedIn.
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:37.279
Yeah, I'm not either.
01:08:37.840 --> 01:08:44.479
You know, it's a little bit more conservative, and it's um, but I do occasionally go to it.
01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:48.560
I again, if I have a show, I'll post information about it.
01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:59.039
And people I know, like friends from overseas, um, who are maybe have businesses, they're more apt to see something on LinkedIn than they are to see.
01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:00.319
That's interesting.
01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:01.039
I didn't know that.
01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:03.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:09:03.439 --> 01:09:10.159
Because people all over the world, um, especially a lot of my Dutch friends, are on Instagram, are on LinkedIn because of business.
01:09:10.399 --> 01:09:17.760
Oh, that's and so I reconnected with some friends because they've seen my name pop up, you know, and they'll see what I'm doing.
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:18.560
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:19.520
Oh, that's great.
01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:22.720
Oh well, Janice, it's been so great talking to you today.
01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:23.840
I really appreciate it.
01:09:24.479 --> 01:09:26.079
Thank you for spending so much time with me.
01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:28.479
In person.
01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:29.439
For real, yeah.
01:09:29.760 --> 01:09:34.319
So you know there's a sergeant in Spain show coming up, I think.
01:09:34.479 --> 01:09:37.039
Sergeant in Spain at the National Gallery.
01:09:37.119 --> 01:09:39.680
That's opening up, I think, in a week and a half.
01:09:39.920 --> 01:09:42.159
So maybe we could meet up there.
01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:43.359
I would love that.
01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:44.000
Oh my gosh.
01:09:44.079 --> 01:09:45.680
And then is the Whistler show still up?
01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:46.640
Do you know if that's up?
01:09:46.800 --> 01:09:48.479
Yeah, I think it's for one more week.
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:48.800
Okay.
01:09:49.039 --> 01:09:51.439
The Whistler and Joe, Joe Hefferin or whatever.
01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:53.119
Yes, yes, yes.
01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:55.760
Well, maybe it's Whistler in Spain.
01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:57.600
Maybe no, it's I think it's Sergeant.
01:09:57.920 --> 01:09:58.800
I think you might be right.
01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:02.079
I think I did hear about a sergeant show coming, but I I didn't realize it was so soon.
01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:02.880
So that's fantastic.
01:10:03.039 --> 01:10:05.279
Yeah, that's it's they're overlapping.
01:10:05.359 --> 01:10:07.920
A friend told me overlapping by a week.
01:10:08.159 --> 01:10:16.000
Um, you know, over COVID, I really didn't follow things as much as you know I used to.
01:10:16.479 --> 01:10:17.920
And none of us are open.
01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:20.319
Right, right.
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:26.159
Well, thank you, Janice, so much for coming on the podcast, and we'll definitely be in touch.
01:10:26.239 --> 01:10:29.439
I will be I'll be getting in touch with you real soon.
01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:30.640
So thank you so much.
01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:31.600
Thank you.
01:10:31.760 --> 01:10:32.560
This is great.
01:10:34.079 --> 01:10:38.319
Janice offered me a real paradigm shift in my thinking about abstraction.
01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:49.920
Prior to our conversation, I hadn't thought about subject matter itself as being a catalyst for abstraction, such as Janice's exploration of more ephemeral subjects like clouds, marshes, and nebulas.
01:10:50.479 --> 01:10:58.800
The other day, I caught myself noticing a dust swirl as I was driving by a construction site and realized my conversation with Janice had expanded my thinking.
01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:00.479
Subject matters.
01:11:01.119 --> 01:11:04.960
Often the result of depicting the intangible can inspire abstraction.
01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:09.039
For those of you looking to go to school or college for art, consider this.
01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:12.319
Schoolwork is under the direction of the faculty.
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:15.279
So be sure you really like their work before you enroll.
01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:20.560
It is thankfully much easier now to research the work of faculty with the aid of the internet.
01:11:21.359 --> 01:11:25.199
Make sure you do your due diligence because college is extremely expensive these days.
01:11:26.319 --> 01:11:33.680
To those in a position of influence in a college, please suggest that your school teach art business to its students on an undergraduate level.
01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:43.359
Not everyone goes on to get their MFA, and a student who graduates with a BA or BFA in art should have a clear idea on what steps they need to take in order to make a living from their art.
01:11:44.560 --> 01:11:49.119
Lastly, residencies take you out of your comfort zone of where you are living.
01:11:49.600 --> 01:11:56.960
While participating in a residency, you will have a lot of intense conversation and critique about your work, which is helpful to artists in all stages of their careers.
01:11:57.119 --> 01:11:59.359
So begin applying to them if you haven't already.
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:02.880
I want to thank Janice Goodman for being my guest today.
01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:09.840
It has always been an enlightening pleasure talking with you, and I'm grateful that you're still in my life more than 20 years after graduation.
01:12:10.319 --> 01:12:13.520
To all my listeners, I want to thank you for spending this hour with me.
01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:18.880
Creating this podcast has become a truly enriching part of my creative practice, and I love that I can share it with you.
01:12:19.039 --> 01:12:20.800
I hope you all have a very creative day.
01:12:20.960 --> 01:12:22.720
Until next time, friends,