Hobbies As A Peace Practice- Team Chat

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Welcome back to the Create Harmony Podcast.
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What we are all about is finding rhythms of peace and the discussion of what peace looks like.
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We like to elevate the voices of fellow peacemakers and just talk about ways that we can weave that more into the rhythms of our lives.
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And this summer we have been doing a discussion and a thorough examination of hobbies and how hobbies can be a form of rest and a form of restoration and just a way to lift your gaze.
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So for this week, we're going to do a wrap-up discussion with our team.
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We've assembled our teammates, Create Harmony Teammates, and we're going to talk about what we learned from all these hobby folks.
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But before we get into that, I'm going to just do a quick overview of what was included in this summer.
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So we started out with Denise Baker and we had a really interesting conversation about cooking.
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She did, she does a lot of exploration of foods and cooking and also their Sabbath rhythm.
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They have a very robust Sabbath rhythm.
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So if you missed that conversation, you definitely want to hear a little bit more about that.
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And then we moved on to Hain Griffin.
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And Hain is a firefighter, and he balances the stress of firefighting with some rock climbing, some cycling, and then on the other end of that, some watercolor painting.
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So he gives some really wise tips about how to balance stressful situations by finding joy in your hobbies.
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And then we move to Sean Ramsey, who is a forest bathing guide or forest therapy guide.
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And she talked to us all about how nature can heal us and getting outside and being in nature, hiking, camping, just being in the trees and the plants can be a source of healing and whole wholeness.
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So you don't want to miss that conversation.
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Next, we moved on to Melissa Ward, who is really into Mahjong, and we talked about Mahjong and how she learned to play, and I'm still learning-ish to play Mahjong.
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She also talked about collecting and decorating.
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She does a lot of um collecting and decorating with her company Preppy Goods.
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And then she has recently gotten into needlepoint.
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So if any of that is your hobby, you might want to listen to that one.
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Then we went to Britney.
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Brittany is owns a company called Our Backyard, and she knows all about how to help you learn to grow things and plants and herbalism.
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And it was just a really great conversation about how to get started as a gardener.
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Or if you're already an experienced gardener, how to take that one step further.
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Next, we had Emily Jolly, and we talked all about the joys of reading and how to make reading uh an interesting hobby, but not stressful, not feeling like you had to do it as a homework assignment, but just let reading bring you delight.
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And then we wrapped up the conversations with Brent Levy, and he talked about travel and how he uses travel as a spiritual practice.
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So if you missed any of that, you want to go back and check all of those out.
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And now we're gonna turn to our wrap-up discussion.
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Okay, welcome back to the Create Harmony Podcast, and we are so excited.
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Today, what we're doing is um a wrap-up discussion.
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So I am your host, Sally Burlington, and we have been talking all summer long about hobbies and the benefit of hobbies in your life and how hobbies can be a form of rest and a form of restoration and all the things.
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So our Create Harmony team includes me, Sally Burlington, and then Megan Joel, who is our brand manager, and then Isabel, who is our newest teammate, and she's joining us here today.
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We have not formally introduced Isabel and we will be doing more of that coming soon.
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You are gonna love all the things that she has to offer, but she's joining this discussion.
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So welcome, Megan and Isabel.
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Hi.
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We listened to all of the hobby discussions, and I just, ladies, I would love to hear what you thought about the hobby discussion overall.
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I absolutely loved it.
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Um I found Tell us who is talking because Oh, this is Megan.
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Yeah.
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Then you'll be able to recognize our voices.
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That's right.
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You sound very different.
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Um, Megan here, and I loved all of it.
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I don't think that there was a single one that I didn't get something out of.
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Um, and I loved how there were some really obvious common threads amongst all of them.
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Like a lot of them I felt like had to do with being outdoors, and um, the ones that were not outdoors had to do with like creating some sense of community in some way, even if it was a singular activity.
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So I I loved seeing the common threads amongst some of the most like extreme opposite activities.
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So, like, you know, mahjong and mountain biking, for example.
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Um, and I also loved hearing people just being passionate about what they're into.
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It's really interesting to see how each of those things restores everybody so uniquely, but also so similarly.
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Yeah.
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What about you, Isabel?
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You have thoughts about that?
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Yeah, I mean, I think there was a lot.
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Um, similarly to Megan, like I feel like every every episode there was something different that I that really stood out to me or that I took away.
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Um and I think I also likewise kind of noticed the the common thread of community and how much um how much like uh hobbies can be a way of creating and forming community and how much rest is found in community as well.
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Um, and how like in so many of the different interviews and what people were saying, like there was such a strong theme of of community being kind of this this big part of what it means to feel kind of at peace.
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Um and I think that's something that I really resonate with in my own life.
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Um and I think I've never really for myself like connected those dots of how hobbies are actually helping to facilitate and create community and how that community then kind of returns uh rest and peace to my life.
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So I think that was um an interesting kind of like through line that I heard in listening to the different episodes.
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And I think that we also um, you know, for those for those who don't yet know me, um, I am 30 and um and I feel like in my sort of age and stage of life, there are so many people who are like really looking and searching for ways to be involved in more community and ways to like bring more peace to their lives.
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And um I think there and I think Hain um talked a little bit about this in his episode, but the sort of like vulnerability of trying something new with other people and how that brings you into like a depth of community that you might not get in the same way if you're just like going to a coffee shop with someone or something like that.
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That there's something about like um it's almost like when you're like a little kid on the playground and you have to like walk up to someone and ask, like, oh, do you want to go on the swings with me?
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Like, I feel like there's a similar sort of feeling in some ways to like some of these practices or hobbies um that you do with other people that's kind of like walking up to someone on the playground and asking them to go on the swings with you, um, that I think just builds that sort of like vulnerability and community.
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And I think that is something that really stood out to me.
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I love that.
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And I I was thinking one of the things that stood out to me in addition to that is just the simplicity of them.
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I mean, other than Mahjong, which is not exactly simple, but um other things are pretty, you know, forest bathing is like walking around outside to some degree, you know, uh rock climbing, it's it's not complicated.
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I mean, creating a Sabbath rhythm, it's not complicated, but it's not that doesn't make it easy.
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It's it's just a simple thing that you return to over and over again.
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And I I like that kind of was one of the through lines that I thought when I listened back to some of them.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and I think I think so often too, we do sort of like overcomplicate these things.
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And even in the the Sabbath episode and kind of like what Denise was talking about, um the ways that like I think I'm a pretty extroverted person, and I I feel like so often rest is framed in this very like, oh, you have to be by yourself meditating, like, and I mean there are elements of what people talked about in the podcast episodes that um were solitary activities as well, or could be solitary activities.
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But I think there is something that's like uh encouraging to me too about the framing of um rest as communal, and that like to your point, Sally, of like it's really not as difficult as we sometimes make it to be that like rest in a hobby can be inviting people over for dinner.
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And and I love like what Denise did with her family of of doing like all these different meals from different countries.
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Um and that like that can be a way of like creating peace and rest and community.
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Um, and that those those hobbies can be like found right in your own kitchen.
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What I loved about Denise was that she took it so far, like it wasn't just that she thought to herself, I'm gonna cook from Turkey, and did that for a night.
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I mean, she did it for 30 days straight.
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That was the only food they ate when they would pick a country.
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And she would make a whole drawing of it and she would learn about the people and pray for the people.
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I mean, like, talk about taking a hobby and really leaning in and creating to me, what I heard when I listened to what she had to say was she created a great thing for a great rhythm for their family, but also it drew in a lot of other people, and then a whole bunch of other people learned about the people in, you know, Istanbul or whatever, just all sorts of different Egypt.
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She talked about creating food from Egypt, and that really because I think for me, sometimes I have a tendency to do my hobbies just kind of a little bit, and I do it just until I rested just the slightest little bit, and then I feel like, oh gosh, gotta get back to work.
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And she just really leaned in and I loved that, or like me who buys supplies for the hobby that I think I'm going to have, like oil painting and just out of the box, lay canvases and like all the turpentine that it's gonna explode somewhere in my house one day because it's just sitting there waiting to be painted with.
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Um yeah, I love that you leaned in, and I love that all these people really lean have incredibly so leaned into their hobbies.
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Yes, and like you said, it's even if it's simple, it's not easy.
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I think the hard part about the hobby and about the peace practice in general is like every January 1st, I'm like, I'm gonna journal this year, and I try so hard for a while.
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And I will look back at my previous year's journal and I'm like January through March, I was crushing it.
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I don't know what happened April through December of 2025.
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Like, I don't know.
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Not written down.
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So I love that.
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And and one thing that Hain mentioned too was it's about doing something and not then thinking about, oh, I did that well or I didn't do that well.
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Yeah.
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The dualistic thinking you mentioned about just do like I did ha I did that hobby for a period of time.
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Doesn't mean I did it bad that I stopped in April of last year, right?
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It's just um thinking, oh wow, I I had space for that.
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And I think that's part of my problem with hobbies to date and what I want to help change in my life and evolve is that, and I've got a lot of inspiration from all of our hobbyists on the podcast, was that I don't need to do it so well constantly.
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Like it's there and it's available for me when I have time and space for it.
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And for those of you who don't know on the podcast, I'm in a really weird season of life, not weird, it's very common actually.
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I have two young kids and I work and you know, we're constantly running around.
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So, like Sally mentioned also on the podcast, seasons of life also allot you or afford you time or not time to do the hobby.
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So, like taking it as it is and enjoying it when I have capacity for it, like that's something that I also took away from this.
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And it made me really want to revisit some of the things that I personally love.
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Yeah, yeah, I love that, Megan.
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I love that what one of the things you said is I don't have to do it consistently or constantly.
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Like, and that I really didn't even think about that, that that was what was coming across in the hobbies discussions until you pointed that out.
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And I think that's good for me to remember in all seasons of life.
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Yeah, just because I haven't journaled this this year yet, maybe even, doesn't mean that I can't pull it out occasionally.
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Like it's not a biography.
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Those are things like an example of like, you know, say you haven't mountain biked in a while, but it's a beautiful day.
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And like it takes a lot more, I think, though, to get back into the hobby um when you've been out of it.
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And so again, the vulnerability piece of just like letting yourself go do it and know, like not be worried about how well you're doing it.
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Right.
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Do it to do it and find peace and enjoy it.
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Yeah, I feel like that also really stood out to me in Haynes' episode.
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Um, because I think I am such a perfectionist.
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Um it's just like, you know, eldest daughter, etc.
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I'm like, I have such a hard time doing something if I can't do it perfectly.
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Um, and I think that's like one of the the struggles with hobbies in in general in my own life is feeling like, oh, if I'm not doing it perfectly, then I can't do it at all.
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Um and I I really loved the framing um of like thinking about these things non-dualistically, um, and not feeling like oh, I have to be good at this in order to do it, um, that I can do it and enjoy it.
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And I don't have to be perfect.
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I don't have to be good.
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And I think there is also just like a practice and you know, the the classic, I think Hain also um used this phrase, but like being a human being and not a human doing, yeah.
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That like getting ourselves out of kind of like the rat race of life, um, and letting ourselves do something that like we're not perfect at.
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Um and and I think again, kind of going back to this like kid on the playground analogy, like I think that um I think a lot about kind of the the element of play and the ways that we've like lost as we get as we get into adulthood, we like lose our ability to play.
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Um, and I think so much of hobbies is this kind of practice of play.
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Um, and like I think about when I was a little kid and like learning to ride a bike for the first time, or learning to like swing on the swing set for the first time, or learning how to like jump rope.
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Like I wasn't immediately good at those things, um, and I had to learn them.
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And there was like a fun and adventure in being five years old and learning how to jump rope.
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Um, and sort of trying to like reclaim some of that sense of like play in the the act of doing hobbies and not just achievement that like I'm not just trying to be the best mountain biker ever or like get like my time down, or I mean I'm not a mountain biker.
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What am I saying?
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I that mountain biking actually terrifies me.
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But the fastest jigsaw puzzle or ever.
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Right, right.
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Like it doesn't have to be perfect, like it can be play.
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Yeah.
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Um, and I think reframing it that way is really like how a helpful reframe in my mind.
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Yeah.
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I love that.
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One of my favorite things about what Haynes said was when he was talking about the couch versus this wood stove.
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Like he said that, you know, fire, because he's a firefighter, fire in the wood stove is appropriate.
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It's the right context, it's a benefit, but fire on the couch is a problem.
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And that, I mean, I thought about that so many different times.
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I'm like, okay, with my device, are you using this as an appropriate device that adds value to your life?
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Or is this now is it has it moved over into the couch?
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And you know, how to how to ask yourself that question really stuck with me.
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Yeah.
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I that also really I actually wrote it down because I was like, oh, that's such a good question to like.
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I wrote it down and also texted my husband and said, please listen to this immediately on your today to this.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I the whole episode start to finish.
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I like how so many notes from so many.
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Yeah.
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Um, nothing changed topics from Haynes podcast Haynes episode, but Emily's episode also really resonated with me because I love a resolution.
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I love like a new year, a new me, uh, even though I am consistently a hundred percent the same.
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I love like the refresh, new start situation.
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And I was thinking about how a lot of my hobbies come into play.
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Like every year, I think, oh, I need to make more time and space for this.
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And reading is all I love to read.
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And one thing I noticed myself doing historically that I had never connected the dots on was I always associated my success in my hobby or reading with how many books I read that year.
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And Emily mentioned she didn't even keep track.
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She she doesn't use good reads in that manner.
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She does not need to consistently, when she's completed a book, say, I read it and here's what I thought about it.
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And I loved that because I realized, like I did a little self-reflection and thought, am I reading also just to be toxically productive?
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Or am I reading as a hobby?
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Because if I'm reading as a hobby, I mean, it's nice to know like what I read throughout the year, but why am I so focused on, oh, I should read 24 books this year?
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That will mean I did good.
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And why am I so metometric with it?
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You know, like I don't even know why.
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One of the things that I'm thinking when we're all talking is some of these hobbies, some of the things that I do with my own hobbies, I've realized that I do them as if I'm someone else is watching or giving me a grade or judging, or and there is no one, like no one knows whether I've written in my journal or not.
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We had no idea that you hadn't written your journal since March until you told us because it's for you, you know.
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And I don't I do that with my own hobbies.
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Sometimes I I do like who cares how many books you read this year?
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No one knows that unless you tell them.
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And I think that I have a tendency to engage with my hobbies in that way as well.
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And I I'm noticing that a theme here is that we do not have to do that.
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Well, I think our devices also, like if we think about the fire on the couch versus in the wood stove, a lot of our apps and things that we use to help us with our hobbies potentially lead us to behavior that pushes us in that direction.
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So tracking goodreads make want you to set a goal, want you to come back to the app.
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Like, and so finding like we both like another theme that was throughout all of them, finding a time and a place where your phone is beneficial for you, where it's not.
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Like, I don't know if my phone is beneficial for me with my hobbies.
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Like, if I even think about me going for a walk with my dog when I set my Apple Watch, like I'm walking, it's tracking my splits.
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It's like telling me how quickly I'm walking a mile, or if I'm getting elevation, or if I walked faster than last time.
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And like I wouldn't even be thinking about that if my device wasn't telling me to think like that.
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And so it's almost like kind of reshaping how we think about some of these things.
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And so sometimes, like many of the people said, like, just put your phone down.
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Yeah, right, right, get it.
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:25.119
Put it down and go, do go do it, disconnect.
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:29.839
And sometimes like mountain biking might not be the safest activity to leave your phone at home.
00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:38.559
I've heard I've heard many stories of bikers having their phone save their life, actually, when they get like, you know, in an accident or something.
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:47.839
So not saying don't take your phone out there with you, but I am saying that I do think that if you step back and think about like what behaviors is driving, you know?
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:49.920
Don't look at it while you're mountain biking.
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:57.519
Which I also love uh one of Haynes' questions that was like, What is something you can do that kind of forces you into the present moment?
00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.599
And I thought that was a really good.
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:16.240
Question for me to ask myself because I was like, Oh, I don't really know that I like have something in my life right now that I'm doing consistently that's like forcing me to be present, um, where I really can't think about anything else.
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:25.759
And I'm not like an adrenaline junkie, I'm not like someone who really likes the hard sports and stuff.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:32.480
Um, but I think there are still things, or even like talking about kind of a flow state or something like that.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:36.559
Like I've been doing this kind of kitchen remodel project.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:56.240
Um, and one thing that I thought of was like, oh, as I'm painting my kitchen, like I do kind of get into a little bit of like a flow state where I mean there are thoughts going through my head, but like not in kind of a uh busy, stressful way.
00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:02.319
I don't I don't know quite how to describe it, but um, I was like, oh, that's something.
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:07.759
Um, but the nice thing about painting a kitchen is that there's very clear lines and boundaries.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:24.400
Like I, when it comes to like actually painting like a picture, um, I feel like I immediately like the the inner critic turns on, where suddenly I'm like, oh, this line has to be perfect and this thing has to look this way.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:37.599
And um, and so I was just kind of reflecting in my own life of like, what things can I maybe introduce that help me kind of really be fully present?
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:49.359
Because the times where I have experienced that, I really like deeply uh enjoy and not just enjoy, but it feels like uh a deep sort of like grounding reset.
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:59.680
Um and you know, I'm sure throughout much of human history people have been doing things like that on in their daily life.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.720
Um, and we kind of have this quote quote luxury.
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:14.319
I don't know if that's actually a luxury of not having to do that because we're not always like having to find our own food to survive.
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:25.680
Um and so yeah, I was just thinking, hmm, I wonder, I wonder what ways I can try to like introduce more of that into my own life.
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:26.640
I like that.
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:56.640
That is a really good and I liked the fact that almost all of these hobby people, some of them it it is their job, but we talked about how you could engage with it as a hobby, because like the guard uh Brittany of our backyard and Sean, both Sean Ramsey, who is a forest bathing guide, both that is their job, but they invited us into that, I thought, in such a way that was so easy and it doesn't, it did it felt very invitational.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:59.359
It felt like, okay, you can engage in this as needed.
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.720
It's it's we're not judging without the inner critic.
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:08.319
You can put the inner critic to the side and just engage in this for fun and for rest and for res restoration.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:09.920
And I loved that part.
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:18.559
I love how they both too like guide you in a way that even if you are a critic and it's hard for you to turn that off, they're there to help you through that.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.839
Like how Brittany's like, I can answer your questions.
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:23.920
If you're like, why is this like this?
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:25.440
I can answer that for you.
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:31.599
And so that that way you have like a resource in your hobby to make it more playful, right?
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:36.559
Back to like the simplicity of childhood and like playing, right?
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:38.240
Playing in your garden.
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:46.400
I mean, my son, who's six, loves every time he sees a seed, no matter what it's in, like it's an orange seed, he's like, Can we plant this?
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:51.359
I'm like, I don't know, maybe, but you know, he's so excited about it.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:26:06.160
And those types of resources, like what Brittany does and what Sean does, can help guide you into something and give you a resource that will then allow you to still be playful, is so cool and so interesting.
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:20.559
And one thing Isabel, you said about renovating your kitchen and painting in the very constraint lines, like I loved how Hain was able to, in his watercoloring, like be able to turn off that inner critic and be like, this isn't a framer.
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:22.400
But not everybody can do that.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:28.319
Like, that's something that could take me personally decades of therapy to figure out how to do it.
00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:43.039
And so I think that finding something or a resource that can help you with that, like whether it's taking an art class that can run you into it and you have a guide there, or like my son loves to color, right?
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:52.640
I have Paw Patrol coloring books and like Pokemon coloring books, and there's like very constrained lines, you know, crayons are everywhere in my house.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.839
So it's like something that I can pick up and do with him, um, which is something Emily also mentioned.
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:03.839
She reads with her family, like the commute back to community and play and that all in one.
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:13.359
It's just so cool and interesting how all of it is so um, it's like so across the board in all of the different episodes.
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:15.359
And I love, love that.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:21.599
I like your idea of there of you finding a guide if you needed one.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:30.720
I I hadn't really picked up on that when I was in the conversations, but I think that's a really wise takeaway that I that I need to take away.
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:39.200
And I'm realizing, you know, we're at we're I'm recording this late summer in North Carolina, and my garden looks really bad.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:43.359
And I keep it's bothering me because I like for my garden to be pretty.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:51.279
I mean, that's one of the things that I'm doing is growing in and making how looking how pretty it is, and it produced the lovely tomatoes and all the things, and that's not happening right now.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:28:04.960
And I'm trying not to fret about it, but I but it's good to have the reminder that like you're doing this as a form of play, and there's gonna sometimes when you draw something, even if you color outside the lines, you can just start over again.
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:05.839
You just plant a new thing.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:07.279
You should see what my daughter does.
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:10.559
She's three, she thinks her artwork is a 10 out of 10.
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:16.160
And also, it looks like pink scribbles on a piece of paper, and I love it.
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:18.720
Wouldn't it be great to be that confident?
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:20.160
Like, wouldn't we all love to have that?
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:33.200
As adults, you know, I feel like we learn to like almost not like ourselves or like not like our like we are constantly in a comparison game of how other people are doing, even if we don't know it.
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:37.359
Like, I would say I'm not somebody who generally compares myself to others.
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:44.400
Um and even thinking about just like my own artwork, I always think about well, like, well, I'm not an artist.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:45.519
Well, like, why not?
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:46.559
I love art.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:47.599
I like to do art.
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:49.920
That inherently makes me an artist.
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.480
Um, it doesn't matter if it's pretty to a common eye, right?
00:28:54.640 --> 00:29:03.920
It's like go back to the play, go back to my three-year-old daughter who's just scribbling pink and it's like, look, pink! Like great, fantastic, and it's beautiful.
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:08.160
And also, Sally, it's a hundred degrees in August in North Carolina.
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:11.039
Find any give yourself some grace.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:12.559
Fair, fair.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:17.279
I'm just trying not to, you know, mess with it too much because it's just not very pretty.
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:20.079
But it will, I will grow some things in the fall and they will be beautiful.
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:26.960
So well, and I think one of the the cool things about working with nature is it really does refuse our perfection.
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:35.759
Like I think you just can't you you can't like make things stay inside the lines when you're working with plants.
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:37.519
Like they are gonna do what they want to do.
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:55.920
Um and I think there is something in the times in my life where I've like been gardening or working on a farm or whatever, um, there is sort of like a forced letting go of perfection because you just like can't you can't make it, yeah.
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.759
You'll torture yourself trying to like make everything so perfect.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:01.759
I can't remember who brought that up.
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:14.079
Was that Brittany who said, like, you know, sometimes, you know, a seed isn't like a like a fruit isn't gonna look as good as you expect it to, and that's just like life, and and that's nature, but that's also life.
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:20.799
Like you have all these previous plans for how things are gonna go, and then something's gonna happen and it's gonna throw you off your tracks.
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:25.519
And that's just the way it ends my my cabinet situation right now.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:26.079
Right.
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:27.680
It's like your renovation.
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:29.680
That's there's always more paint.
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.400
There's always there's always more paint.
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:33.119
Yeah.
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:37.519
Okay, well, so there's a couple of our hobby people that we haven't talked about a lot.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:39.759
So let's talk about Sean for a minute.
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:45.359
The thing I loved about Sean was how much science she had to back up the forest space.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:50.079
She's a forest bathing guide, and just she cited so many different things.
00:30:50.319 --> 00:31:00.240
I was like, oh yeah, there's more to this than just and I knew that there's more to it, but I don't know, she just really invited me in in a way that made me want to get out into the woods.
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:02.720
I don't know if you guys felt that way or not.
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:05.599
I definitely did.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:10.400
I also loved how she mentioned smells.
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:15.599
I forget the exact technical word she mentioned about what the trees give off.
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:18.400
She said, what is it, phytos, phytosides?
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:18.799
Is that right?
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:20.400
Yes, I think that was it.
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.400
I think if you say it fast enough, nobody will know if we're saying it.
00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:25.519
Yeah, phytosides.
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:28.480
So the phytosides.
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:34.960
Um she also mentioned essential oils, which I find so soothing.
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:44.160
And like when you go to get a massage, you know, your masseuse will generally give like take three deep breaths, and they'll hold lavender essential oil up to your nose.
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:47.200
And not everybody probably knows that it's an essential oil.
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:55.200
Some people might think it's just like a good smelling lotion or a candle, but like how crunching pine needles can give you some similar smells.
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:58.559
And it it just like really resonated with me.
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:07.200
And I'm also a big believer in getting outside in nature and how like we are meant to be one with nature.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:21.200
And we talked about this a long time ago with an episode with Carly um as well about how like we come, we are, we are nature, like we we are supposed to be outside.
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:27.920
And I found it mind-blowing that she said it was like over 80% of our days are spent in the house or in a car.
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:31.279
Blew my mind and it made me nauseous.
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:43.440
Well, and it made me think when she was talking about the the things that the plants do to heal us, it made me think like you've had the all the tools with you all along.
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:44.160
You know what I mean?
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:50.799
Like it's it's a little bit of a Dorothy moment that I was like, oh, right, that was that tree has been right there outside your door.
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:54.960
And all you had to do was go out there and make a connection, you know.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:58.160
Um, so I thought that was a great reminder.
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:05.200
Yeah, just how how disconnected we are in our day-to-day lives from the natural world.
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:20.880
And I uh I worked on a farm for like six months at one point, and part of my job was taking kids, like groups of school kids on um nature walks, both through the farm and through the woods um that was on the property.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:25.519
And it was so interesting because they would often come from the city.
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:51.839
Um, it was just outside Vancouver, and so it'd be kids coming from like pretty urban environments where there was one time where we're like we had a bunch of kids come in and we were like walking down a grassy slope and they all were like freaking out about walking down this slope because they hadn't really experienced like walking down hill outside.
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:56.079
I don't know, it was it was very shocking actually, but they were all like a slope, a slope.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:12.880
Um but but it was always so interesting because you'd have these kids and you'd like see them come off the bus and they'd be like so sort of unruly and um you know tense and like you can almost tell that they're like carrying all this tension.
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:20.159
And then we would take them out into the woods and we would do this exercise where we would call it um oh, what is it called?
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:37.440
Pond scooping or something like that, where everyone would get these white plastic bins, and we'd go down to the pond and he'd scoop water in the plastic bin, and then he would just like stare at it for five minutes in silence and see what you could see.
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:43.280
And like a lot of times on when you first started looking, it would be like, Oh, there's nothing there.
00:34:43.440 --> 00:35:04.320
And then the longer that you look, the more you see, like, oh, here's this little tiny creature that's moving, and um and uh and it was always so interesting because these kids uh like uh very uh I I don't know that they'd ever really been invited into any sort of practice of of silence or stillness.
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:33.039
Um, but there was a way in like a way in which combining that with this uh this sort of kinesthetic, like outdoor activity of like we are sitting in the middle of the woods by a pond, and you're looking very intently at this water and like noticing what you see that like the kids actually I mean, and it would be kindergarten all the way through, you know, high school.
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:41.440
And every time it was like amazing to witness the ways that they just kind of like would calm down and could actually be really quiet and really still.
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:51.119
Um, and how at first when we would start doing like our forest walks and stuff, they were so like skittish and scared and um didn't really want to be there.
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:56.000
But then by the end, inevitably everyone would always be saying, Oh, can we stay out longer?
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.159
or like I want to do this every day.
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:06.159
Um, and just the ways that yeah, like we we are nature, our bodies and brains like crave being.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:12.639
Well, and what I love about that is the little micro worlds that you discover slowing down and looking.
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:13.360
Yeah.
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:14.559
I love that.
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:15.519
I mean, pay attention.
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:16.000
That's awesome.
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:16.320
Right.
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:21.840
So, okay, we haven't talked about Melissa, who is the um lady who learned how to play mahjong.
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:27.840
And it was, I mean, I thought it was so crazy when she said that she first learned how to play mahjong, and immediately she was hooked.
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:31.519
Because when I first tried to learn how to play mahjong, I was like, what is going on?
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:33.440
What is even happening in this room?
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:35.679
Or what language are you speaking?
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:37.440
But she was just really into it.
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:48.079
And I think mahjong is kind of different from a lot of the other hobbies because it isn't nature and what have you, but it is such a great form of community and such a great form of play.
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:53.039
Um, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on on her, on Melissa, what Melissa had to say.
00:36:53.360 --> 00:37:00.400
Yeah, I mean, I it's so funny because like I grew up in a country where everyone was playing Mahjong all the time.
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:08.079
For those who don't know, I grew up in China and I never learned to play Mahjong because it was so complicated.
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:13.360
And I think I've played maybe twice in my life, and like every time I was like, I'm so overwhelmed.
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:14.559
This is so complicated.
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:24.800
Um, but it did listening to her talk about it made me want to go back and try because I was like, oh man, I think this would be a cool way to kind of reclaim some of what I grew up with.
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:26.960
Yeah, it's so beautiful.
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:27.599
Yeah.
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:30.639
I love Mahjong.
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:53.760
I I was really compelled by the fact that Melissa mentioned that after having her second child, it really catapulted her career and what she's doing with um being a content creator and focusing on her her brand and her um collaborations and stuff because I felt the same way after my second child.
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:58.239
It just like was the straw that broke the camel's back, and it was like, I gotta do something different.
00:37:58.320 --> 00:37:59.679
I don't know what it is.
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:09.199
Um, and so I loved how she took a lot of her hobbies and then made them into what she's doing today.
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:13.679
Um, less so about mahjong, but more about just like her lifestyle and how she's living.
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:16.320
I really thought that that was super cool.
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:21.599
Um, and I also personally have tried to learn mahjong twice.
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:29.599
I am not a mahjong player, but I played solitaire growing up, like competitively with my family.
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:33.599
It's like a way that you can play solitaire like as a group.
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:39.679
And so that like commet competitiveness and the community, I am obsessed with.
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:55.679
And like if I had more evening time, um, which I don't in my current phase in life, I think that I would absolutely love to play Mahjong, but I also love how it brings it incorporates play, it incorporates um disconnecting again from life.
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:57.679
Like you have to be in it.
00:38:57.840 --> 00:38:59.039
It's like not inviting.
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:01.119
Yeah, it's like not inviting.
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:05.280
It's like you have to be in it or you are or you are going to be focused.
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:07.360
Everybody's gonna be like, what are you doing?
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:08.719
Your turn.
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:14.880
Um and when I'm trying to learn, I learned with some of my friends, and we were chit-chatting a lot.
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:22.239
And the person who is teaching us, bless her, she was like, hello, ladies, we have to focus because like this is a fast-paced game.
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:23.760
Like you have to run it.
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:27.360
This is not like a sit around and chit-chat type situation.
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:39.440
Um, and so it was really it, I really liked that because a lot of communal games are like sit around and chit-chat, which is great, but I feel like and it can be restorative in a way.
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:51.119
It's just like a different level of restoration for like somebody who's not an adrenaline junkie who wants to like sit and play something, it can still get you fully, fully in your mindset.
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.360
Like you're seven, you're separated from your life for that time you're playing mahjong.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:56.000
Yeah.
00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:56.559
Yeah.
00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:06.239
And I like I I liked your point about the fact that she took her hobbies and created a brand and content and a lifestyle business in it.
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:12.800
And I think that's difficult to do because often we take a hobby and then when it becomes a business, it becomes a to-do.
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:29.760
And so as she did it so seamlessly and beautifully, I'm sure she's had some moments that weren't perfect, but she she does a good job of modeling like what that can look like if you do want to keep it still playful and full of wonder and full of fun, but it is now a job for her.
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:36.559
Yeah, and we get, I mean, I could tell that just by meeting her briefly at our Mahjong for mental health event that we had at your house, Sally.
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:41.440
Um man, you could just see that she was like joyous about mahjong.
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:42.639
It was so cool.
00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:46.000
It was like again, back to like childlike play.
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:47.519
It was like, it was like childlike joy.
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:50.639
Like you could tell she was beaming about my about her hobbies.
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:58.719
It was so amazing and just something that you don't see as often as we should anymore.
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:03.280
Um, and it and it's also like Hain was saying again, vulnerable.
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:03.599
Yeah.
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:09.280
Like that openly passionate about something that not everybody, like, you know, some people are like, whoa, this is hard.
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:11.199
Um like, wow.
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:12.320
Well, and needlepoint.
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:13.519
I mean, she talked about needlepoint.
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.199
I was set with just as much joy.
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:23.119
And I mean, you know, I like needlepoint, but it's just not something that you normally think of people being like, let me just tell you about my needlepoint, you know.
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:26.480
I mean, um, so I thought that was great.
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:28.400
It was very, very cool.
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:38.079
Yeah, it does kind of now that we're talking about this, I'm like, oh, maybe when I think about it, like games are something that like gets me into the present moment.
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:42.480
Um that I love, I love a good game.
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:47.760
Um and so maybe I should take up Mahjong.
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:49.599
Maybe so.
00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:50.400
There we go.
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:51.760
Something we'll all do together.
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:55.599
I do have a bunch of friends who used to play Katan in college.
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:56.880
Oh yeah, I love Katan.
00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:59.599
Um, which is like really an intense game as well.
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:06.559
It's like got a lot of rules, or like um, as everybody who's probably watched Stranger Things, you know, what's that?
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:07.360
What's that called?
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:08.159
Dungeons and Dragons.
00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:09.199
Dragons.
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:11.920
I mean, like those games get you so into it.
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:19.440
And I think what's really cool about a lot of these hobbies is they're all linked to creativity and like imagination.
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:20.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:24.400
Like maybe not so much well, creativity and mahjong.
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:35.360
I mean, you're creating and like strategizing over these runs, or like when you're reading, you're not the creative thinking, but you are being transported into like this creative world.
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:36.559
Um It's wonder.
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:37.920
Yeah, it's a version of wonder.
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:38.079
Yeah.
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:52.480
So I feel like that is also a big part of a lot of the hobbies and um how you can transport yourself into a different part of your brain or a different part of your life, or turn off the noise somehow intentionally.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.199
Mm-hmm.
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:55.920
We haven't talked about intentionality at all yet.
00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:04.480
I yeah, I thought about that earlier, that a lot of these people were very intentional about the hobbies that they do, and that that is a was a through line.
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:14.639
Yeah, I find it very hard to set aside intentional time personally with dependents, um, or like small children.
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:15.760
Yes.
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:21.679
But I'm lucky to have a partner who, like my husband, helps, obviously.
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.400
We we are we are a team.
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:41.840
And so what we have done, and I don't know if any listeners have to do this as well, but we schedule our personal time and we don't do it as much as we should, but we try to put our personal time on the calendar as much as possible.
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:49.760
And when my husband's less less good about it than I am, and so I'll be like, hey, I don't see any golf on Saturday.
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:51.360
You want to put that on the calendar?
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:55.039
Cause I want it carved out for you and for me.
00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:59.760
So we I'm not assuming you're watching the kids or you know, that you have that time.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.719
For yourself because you need it and I need it.
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:07.119
And so we try to intentionally put it on our calendar.
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.159
It's a great idea.
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:10.239
But it's fantastic.
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:15.519
Well, and I think it's a good point at what I've learned as I I am a little older than the two of you.
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:22.320
And what I have learned is it's hard to be intentional even at all life for me at all life stages.
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:28.239
I used to think that it was because, you know, I was raising small children and life is busy and and that was true.
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:34.639
And now my children are pretty much grown and I still can let my life get too quick if I allow it.
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:46.800
You know, I I don't have the responsibilities of them anymore, but I still am, I'm like, and this and that, and that if I let that happen, I have to be intentional about like take a beat, slow it down.
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:54.719
Um, so I think at any life stage or any circumstances, it's easy for that to happen if you're not focused on it.
00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:06.800
So one thing my husband does to make sure, because I know Sally, you said that on one of the podcasts, I think it was I can't remember which one it was, but you said that the busier you are, the more likely you are to say yes.
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:07.599
Oh, yeah.
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:12.880
Um, one thing that my husband does that I do not do, I say yes immediately to everything.
00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:15.280
It's a person as a personality flaw.
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:19.679
Um he he always says maybe.
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:26.639
And then he will follow up normally in 24 hours with the actual answer.
00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:27.519
I like it.
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:32.719
He's not saying no and he's not saying yes, but he always says maybe and then sleeps on it.
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:33.199
Okay.
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:34.559
Which I love.
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:40.639
And it gives you the in it gives you intentional, it it helps you to be more intentional with how you're spending your time.
00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:49.840
And then therefore, when you can slot in activities for yourself, for peace, for hobbies, for creativity, whatever.
00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:52.239
That's a great idea.
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:54.239
I need to I need to start saying maybe.
00:45:54.400 --> 00:46:04.000
I used to say maybe, or I'll say I used to say we'll see to our oldest daughter, and she any any answer that wasn't a flat out no wasn't was a yes to her.
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:09.119
Like if I had maybe to her, that was a slam dunk, yes, and she was like, We're doing it, you know.
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:14.000
So anyway, I had to learn to be like, okay, I didn't say yes, I said maybe.
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.559
Um anyway, that is hard.
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:18.800
Or seeing let me think about it.
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:20.960
Yeah, yeah, that's almost better than maybe.
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:26.960
It's just like a a way to get yourself to slow your responses down.
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:28.559
Yeah, I love that.
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:29.199
That's great.
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:30.159
It's a great idea.
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:32.559
So this has been such a great conversation.
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:44.639
I love all the things we've talked about today, and I'm glad we took some time to go back through all of our hobby conversations, and thanks to both of you all for taking time out to talk about it.
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:51.840
Now, before we go, I want to tell you about something new that we've been creating as a Create Harmony team.
00:46:52.079 --> 00:47:05.039
So this fall, we're launching something that we're calling Peacefall, and it's our first peace through practice series, and what it is is a nine-week season designed around this simple idea.
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:10.960
What if we collected up a group and practiced peace together?
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:19.119
So this will be a small group that will gather throughout the fall to slow down, to connect, and more importantly, to try something new.
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.559
This is sort of an expansion of our hobby discussion.
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:27.119
Instead of just talking about hobbies, we're going to try some of them.
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:34.880
So we'll begin with an opening retreat and then we'll have six evenings that explore new practices from some of the hobbies we've talked about.
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:46.880
We're gonna do some pottery, some gardening, maybe rock climbing, we might try dancing, all sorts of things, and then we'll finish the season gathered around the table at a Friendsgiving.
00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:56.079
So it's not really about the activities, it's about creating room in our lives for the spirit of curiosity, for the spirit of play.
00:47:56.239 --> 00:48:03.599
This can be a form of rest, it's gonna take a little bit of courage, creativity, and it will create connection.
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:08.559
And so we're gonna notice how those things can become an extension of our peace.
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:11.360
So you do not have to be good at any of that.
00:48:11.599 --> 00:48:13.519
That's not required.
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:14.960
None of us are gonna be good at it.
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:16.639
We're all gonna be learning together.
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:19.280
You only need to come curious.
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:24.480
Peacefall will take place in Raleigh and it will be our pilot program.
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:32.400
So if you're craving a deeper connection with others and you are open to trying some new things, this might be exactly what you need.
00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:37.119
You can learn more and save your spot at mycreateharmony.com.
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:39.280
And you just definitely want to check it out.
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:44.079
Once the slots are filled, they're filled, and you want to be part of this brand new program.
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:45.360
Don't miss it.
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:53.599
Now, until next time, I want you to remember peace is not just something we hope for, it's something that we practice.
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:58.960
Peace is a practice, and we practice it one ordinary moment at a time.
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:01.519
And until next time, peace.