Mark Patterson: What's up, family? We got Danny in the convo room today. All right, so you come highly recommended from one of our previous guests, ⁓ Fabian. I was asking, was like, hey, could you recommend some folks that we should have on the pod? And your name was one that came up. She just ⁓ could not speak ⁓ more well of you than she had already done. And so I'm so glad that we have a chance to connect.
Dani-chan: You
Mark Patterson: really interested to dive in because I ⁓ do content within the nonprofit work that I do ⁓ and on the traditional side when it comes to crafting, talking points, ⁓ copywriting, all the above. So I'm interested to geek out a little bit. I'm also interested in how early stage creators...
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: can really take what you've done for larger corporations and just incorporate that into their workflow to attract the audiences and the communities that they're looking to build. So without further ado, welcome to Convo Room, Danny.
Dani-chan: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Mark. I'm very glad to be here, very surprised to be here, but glad to be here nonetheless.
Mark Patterson: Absolutely. So ⁓ let's just get rolling first. ⁓ One, what got you into copywriting? And then I'm just gonna have you brag on some of the projects that you've worked on. like what, when did the light bulb go off for you? When did you realize, hmm, I have a talent for this?
Dani-chan: You That's a really good question. I actually started off ⁓ as a creative writer. That's my background. That's what I got my degree in. And when it came to getting my big job out of college, I actually started in workers compensation. ⁓ And I was looking for ways to finally utilize my degree. And I came across a position for a content strategist at my firm that I'm at right now, Herdad. It's a small firm in Omaha, Nebraska. And ⁓ it's been smooth sailing ever since.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ So you got started with creative writing. You now are doing that for corporations that typically it's like you're kind of, feel like a lot of times, I don't know if this is true for you, but you kind of have to either craft or really respect the voice of the organization that you're working with. What has been your experience? Do you feel like you've had to?
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: create a voice for the clients that you've served or do you feel like you've more or less just adapted what they've already done?
Dani-chan: ⁓ So when it comes to like my corporate job, my nine to five, yes, I, it's really easy for me to flow between the brand voices for each client that we write for. One of our biggest clients is a self storage company, but I've also written for lawyers, for banks, for medical providers here in town. But when it comes to like personal projects that I'm working on with clients, they do need a little bit more help. when it comes to like brand voice. And it's really a fun experience when they don't really know what they want to sound like, because then I'm able to help them keep their ideas, but also make it a little bit more streamlined.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. So let's just double click on that somebody who's listening right now I feel like the whole purpose of why they would listen to this conversation is number one How do I find my voice like people might be using? Generative AI to try to get their ideas flowing and going and then you realize wait a minute. I sound like a robot I want to sound more like me. I can't get these things to sound like me and then On the flip side, I feel like there might be some people that might have found some traction, but they really don't know how and why. They're writing, but they really don't know what their voice is. Like, what would you say is step one to finding your voice and being able to duplicate that in the different types of posts that you're writing and even the scripts that you're then taking on screen?
Dani-chan: Hmm When it comes to finding your brand voice, I have a couple of approaches. One is would you listen to you? If you read something that you've written and you read that back, you're like, yeah, I wouldn't buy it for me either. Then that's a sign for you to go back to the drawing board. ⁓ I think that a lot about, the thing about your brand voice is like you're, communicating to somebody that you're trustworthy, regardless if you're selling something, offering something, promoting something, you're just trying to get somebody's attention. ⁓ And the second approach I have is kind of, it's not stealing, but when you see somebody doing something that you like, pull from that. If you like the way that they're speaking, pull from that and just fold it into.
Mark Patterson: Yes!
Dani-chan: to your own personal way of communicating. It kind of takes away the guessing game and the stress of trying to compete with other people. When something works, it works. But it's important not to just straight up copy somebody. It's good to throw in your own personal charm into it.
Mark Patterson: I feel like there is, I think there is a lot of, let's just, we don't want to use the word copying as you said, but for lack of a better word, we'll just, we'll use the word copying. There is a lot of emulating happening. Yeah. Happening on socials, particularly, particularly I feel like in the B2B space. ⁓
Dani-chan: Yes. There we go, emulating. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: and with executives, everything sounds the same. I mean, it's almost if everything was a color, it will be blue, you know? And ⁓ don't let it be like on LinkedIn. I mean, it just all sounds the same. So how do you find yourself creating hooks or finding angles that are interesting? Because you might be talking about, I mean, you know,
Dani-chan: Yes! ⁓ no! Bye! ⁓
Mark Patterson: no shade to any of the organizations that you work for, but there are lots of competing businesses. So how do you make that one business stand out ⁓ when you're creating a post? is there a hook you have in mind? Is it the angle? Is it something else? I'm just really curious.
Dani-chan: Hmm. ⁓ One of the biggest things that I focus on is the intent. Your hook is really your way in. When you're on social media platforms and you're scrolling through, especially if you're on LinkedIn, blocks of text, that's human beings, especially in the video age where you're just quick to scroll. So if you're not getting somebody within that first sentence, you're probably not going to get them. ⁓ that's my, when I approach hooks, like even with like my personal ⁓ content creation and which is it, I do anime content creation on LinkedIn of all places, but I'm still able to capture people's attention because of the intent ⁓ that I'm putting into my hooks. I'm trying to write a hook. I mean, that catches people's attention. I guess there's no really fancy way to put it.
Mark Patterson: And are there methods that you use that writers that may not have as much experience, there methods that you use that they could deploy tomorrow? Like a rule of thumb or an approach that you have to say, you know what, if you're gonna go for that first sentence, are the hallmarks that you need to have within that sentence. And maybe that even you go by to kind of like,
Dani-chan: Okay.
Mark Patterson: Spot check. ⁓ And maybe your method isn't as, you know, ⁓ rigid, ⁓ you know, as a creative writer. Maybe it's kind of like I just shoot from the hip, but I'm curious, what do you check off the list when you say, hmm, this is good?
Dani-chan: Yeah. When you ask me that question, it really makes me think. When I'm writing my hooks or like when I'm writing any type of copy, my goal is to put, is to frame it in a way that makes somebody continue to read. ⁓ A lot of people like to put hot takes and that can get a little tricky because some people take a little bit. weird, I guess. ⁓ But yeah, I try to think about what, what I guess a hot take would be. I also do look at other people's content. ⁓ Again, we're not talking about copying here, but looking at other people's content that is successful, looking at how they're structuring their, their content is super, super helpful, especially if you're not really familiar. with how to write hooks or write a solid post. ⁓ Because I think sometimes, especially on LinkedIn, since we're focusing on LinkedIn, some people get really wordy and try to frame everything into a single post. ⁓ So I do highly recommend, find a couple people that you like, you like their content, look at what they're doing and try to... ⁓ maybe try to do some exercises where you're not mimicking but like following their kind of using their content as like a guide there i got it boom
Mark Patterson: Yes, yes. Yes. ⁓ I'm curious for the sake of creators who are trying to do content, but it feels like, man, I just do not have the time. Every time I try to sit down and write, it just feels like a chore or, you know, I have a lot I want to say, but I just can't seem to figure out a way to efficiently like break these big ideas up into small pieces.
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: How would you advise people to create a system to where they can write consistently and show up daily on social media?
Dani-chan: And it's actually a really good question because I work a nine to five, even though I do content creation and content creation is its own job. If you're not prepared to carve a little time out for yourself ⁓ during the week, then you're going to have some issues. It's not impossible. I'm still able to do it, but you still have to, you kind of have to be on top of your time management. The other thing I would suggest is to figure out a system. My favorite thing is Notion. I have a Notion page where everything lives, my ideas, my drafts, my content pillars, it all lives in there. The other thing is to determine how much time can you actually give to this. Like I said, content creation does take time, know, filming, writing. All those things are an investment. Me personally, my Saturday, I give it up. Not the whole day, but like until about three o'clock, I'm working on things so that I can prepare for the week. ⁓ batching. Batching is also gonna be your best friend. ⁓ Getting all of your ideas out, drafting it so you can get started and you can maybe. work on things throughout the week and little bite-sized pieces. ⁓ So those are a couple of things that I would recommend if you're trying to figure out how to ⁓ get into content creation, even if you don't have that much time to do it like full-time.
Mark Patterson: And for quality checks. mean, for, you know, I know some people swear by Hemingway to kind of make sure that their copy is a little bit more digestible to as many people as possible. And, you know, there are a myriad of tools out there, but I'm curious for you, what are your, do you have other tools that you use to make sure? that you're hitting the quality standards that you might be looking for, whether it's making sure like, God forbid a typo creeps through or ⁓ if there is any other thing that you use to kind of make sure that you're on brand with all of your pieces.
Dani-chan: You're done? ⁓ I actually don't. ⁓ a lot of this stuff is second nature to me now. I'm really just using a lot of my knowledge as a content strategist to drive my content as a creative content, as a anime content creator. So I don't really have any like backup tools like a, know, Bramberley or anything like that. But I do check my drafts before I publish. I read through it out loud. I read through it out loud to make sure that, you know,
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Dani-chan: I'm not saying crazy stuff or, you know, know, stuff happens when you're trying to type things out. that's that good old reading it out and checking my draft is where I'm at.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, that's actually a really good, I feel like there are a couple of ⁓ tested, tried and true methods. ⁓ And from the old school I remember, ⁓ in which I did this the other day, ⁓ they were like, hey, you could literally just change the font of the document sometimes and that just to see it differently because our eyes just get so blind after you. And I was like, you know, I'm gonna do that today. And I like randomly did that this week. ⁓
Dani-chan: ⁓ yeah. See you differently.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ We've talked a lot about the granular nature of creating the actual content, but I really want to put on that strategist hat that you spoke about. For a lot of people, ⁓ they might get into content creation and have a goal. ⁓ I want to build an audience, or I want to secure some opportunities through thought leadership or whatever the case might be. How do you see... ⁓
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: Are there different types of content that you feel like attract types of audiences or do you feel like it's just all the same, just create good stuff?
Dani-chan: Could you ask that one more time? I think I have the answer, but I just want to hear the question one more time.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, like I'm thinking for people who are trying to create content for different reasons, ⁓ the start might stop them. They're like, well, I don't know if I should ⁓ do a newsletter ⁓ and do a week to week newsletter. I don't know, should I just post ⁓ small posts on LinkedIn? Should I ⁓ consider threads or Twitter? Like should ⁓ I?
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Okay.
Mark Patterson: or X now, should I, are there different types of content that you've seen with the pieces that you've written that attract the right audience? And by right, mean, you know, for the creator, maybe we need to be specific to the creator. I think the creator, ⁓ most people, are just like us, they're working a nine to five. They have ⁓ the idea,
Dani-chan: ⁓ yes. Thank you. Mmmmm Yeah.
Mark Patterson: of some, they've got some expertise and some stories that they can tell that are very unique to them, might not have a lot of time to do it. ⁓ What methods would you say, hey, look, if you're going to sit down and create some content, this is what you should pursue.
Dani-chan: Thank you. Right. Okay, so when it comes to content creation, the platform you choose matters. Unfortunately, ⁓ the algorithms on each of them are different. The intent of the user is going to be different ⁓ and the quality of your audience is going to be different. So ⁓ if you're wanting to reach somebody who will read a newsletter, ⁓ don't put all your content on like TikTok. Those people probably are not going to be your audience. Some people who are on LinkedIn are gonna be your audience. On Substack or ⁓ Beehive will be part of your audience. ⁓ If you're leaning more towards like, ⁓ like for me, for anime content creation, My audience is not on LinkedIn. There is an audience. There is one, but it's not going to be my main audience. I also own a sub stack and I have about 175 subscribers now. ⁓ so there's a big, the audience there is smaller, but it's a lot more, ⁓ the intent is there. Like that's where they're going to go and find my things. ⁓ I would recommend looking at like researching what types of platforms, like, how am I trying to say this? The type of content that you're making, research it, see how it performs on the platform, on other platforms. Does that make sense? I feel like I'm struggling.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, think, yeah. No, I feel like you basically you're saying you've got to know where your audience is. And before you decide to create the content, you've really got to figure out how do I get to those people? And I think it sometimes I think when it's online, we just overthink a lot of times because it's just like you.
Dani-chan: Yes. There you go. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: feel like you just have to boil the ocean. So you're like, okay, well, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do everything. ⁓ And I think that there is, there's merit to trying things and testing, you know, as a marketer, I feel like, you know, you can't just make assumptions. You've got to at least give it a go. Like just before you say, ⁓ well, this audience isn't here. Did you try? ⁓ But I think to your point, when you said you've got to see how that content is performing.
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm.
Mark Patterson: on whatever platform you're looking to pursue. so ⁓ based on your experience, where have you seen some surprising ⁓ collectives of audience with some of the businesses and clients you've worked for?
Dani-chan: would say that LinkedIn has been the most surprising. It's the last place I thought you would be able to build a community or find community because LinkedIn is, has in the past been considered like, this is where I go to find a job. This is how I find connections in the industry. But over the last couple of years, it's really started to take a shift and more creators are finding opportunities on the platform. which is a couple of people that actually caused me to get into content creation. One is Jade. ⁓ gosh, I forgot her last name. So sorry, Jade. ⁓ Yes, I love Jade so much. She's like who I aspire to be. ⁓ And the other one is Brandon Smithrick. He used to work for Kickstarter, I believe.
Mark Patterson: I know who you're talking about, purple hair? Yes, yes, yes. Yes.
Dani-chan: Just has completely changed the way that I look at social media in general. It's small, and like I've learned that a smaller audience does not mean that it's a bad audience. It's actually a really good audience to have because they're really focused on what you're creating. Another platform that I think is really surprising is also Substack. I would say that it's like LinkedIn, but more... Actually, no, it's more like Tumblr. And instead of photos, it's blogs. And a more mature Twitter or X or yes, Blue Scott, a more mature version of that, where there's like really interesting conversations happening. You can build a robust community on there. People are...
Mark Patterson: Hmm ⁓ Yes. Yes.
Dani-chan: As we've moved into the AI-ification of social media, ⁓ a lot of people are looking for authentic, real conversations. And so I found that Substack has been an amazing platform to be on.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, personally I run a weekly newsletter on Beehive and I find that the newsletter audience, I mean, I can't speak more highly of it. mean, it's such a, ⁓ while it can be one to many in terms of like a broadcast channel, but it's so personal because the thing I love about it is that people respond.
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: When it hits, now sometimes they don't say a word, okay? But like people respond and I feel like there's a certain candor people have in newsletters that you don't get in comments on social media. And sometimes the dialogue is, you can really help people if you're providing a ⁓ solution to something.
Dani-chan: Yes. Yes. Hmm.
Mark Patterson: Like with me, I feel like my whole purpose, like right now in this season of the podcast and then doing this newsletter that I've been doing, it's like to be a resource to the creator economy. And I find that when, and it's really not just the tactical stuff, but it seems like the things that are more mindset related and things that help people break through some of the ideas or the methods that have gotten them a little stuck.
Dani-chan: Who's doing this? Mmmmm
Mark Patterson: they're beyond grateful and will express that. And so I do feel like to your point, it's been really nice. Cause my newsletter is, feel, well, I used to say my newsletter was my largest channel, but now the podcast, because I've been interviewing wonderful people like you, the podcast has been creeping up a little bit past the newsletter. But I say, I say all that to say like,
Dani-chan: Yes.
Mark Patterson: I'm finding that even with the smaller audience, as you said, like the connection is so rich. And so while I'm interested in building the newsletter, I'm kind of with you. I really want to make sure that that intent stays there. ⁓ And I feel like before we get into the idea of like writing copy that can just attract a mass audience, like ⁓ I feel like I've seen
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ some general market content that you've done where you've talked about some lists that were related to cities and ⁓ done some other things that seem like very general market to catch the attention of lots of folks. ⁓ I'm really curious as to what gives you the confidence and or the assurance that the niche you chose is the one you want to stick with? Is it just passion about the topic?
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: Or do you feel like you're committed to it because you've got this vision and you're sticking to it?
Dani-chan: Man, that is a question, isn't it? I think that an Unleash Your Ditch is a good starting place. But as I have continued on this journey, I feel like it's widened. I was really focused on just like creating. So when I first started the anime anthropologist, my goal was to make anime a richer experience by talking about it from a purely art history perspective. Because that's my other big love is art history, Japanese art history. But as I started to look at other creators, I realized I was really putting myself in a pigeonhole. I was really putting myself into a box. And my ideas that were outside of it, I was like, ⁓ but that doesn't really fit within the niche that I've picked. anime art history is Japanese art history, not just anime in general. And so my recommendation when you're starting is to just create efforts. Figuring out what you're doing is going to come, you're going to change as you go on this journey. You think you're going to be, you know, the person who only talks about, you know, content creation, but you may find other subcategories that fit into that. so like keeping an open mind, I think is super, super, super important. And I also forgot to take a part of your question already.
Mark Patterson: What do you feel like you stuck with it out of passion or is it that you have more of like a strategic vision for why you're staying with this particular category?
Dani-chan: I would say both. I have loved anime my whole life. It has been a major reason why I got into content creation. And also I have a vision. I think that anime has the potential to really shift the way that people think about marketing.
Mark Patterson: Hmm, how so?
Dani-chan: specifically the way that people interact with their intended audiences. think over the last couple, I don't want to say the bad word, since the pandemic, people have really been interested in anime as a medium, which is really interesting because it's been here for a very long time. ⁓ And so watching companies try to tap into this new audience has also been very interesting. ⁓ And I think that there's an opportunity for people to. What's the word? Engage with audiences or their intended buyers in a more authentic and meaningful way. I think that a lot of the ⁓ marketing lingo like KPIs and all that good stuff gets really ⁓ overbearing on the process. And so I think that anime is gonna be ⁓ a different type of marketing, I think.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ Now, I'm curious for folks who are trying to attract like a general audience to their, let's just say if you are a ⁓ person that is a professional and since we're sticking with LinkedIn for this conversation and you're like, okay, I want to really just, I want to make sure I can break out of the box of
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: people that I know, but hook people that I don't know and create shareable content. ⁓ I noticed that you kind of did like a listicle situation with one of the companies that you ⁓ you served through your job. How do you go about creating those? And do you, do you find, I'm curious, do you find them to be enough of a hook to gather?
Dani-chan: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: a new audience around a company or a product launch.
Dani-chan: Did you tell me more about this listicle? I create so much stuff.
Mark Patterson: I thought there was like best places to live in Atlanta kind of thing. Yes.
Dani-chan: Okay, I know what you're talking about. know what you're talking about. ⁓ And then the question was how do I get to a more general audience? Is that the question?
Mark Patterson: Yeah, well, let me not assume. Is the purpose of a content piece like that to get people that are in that market or looking to maybe live in that market, it's almost like just a way to just get the bees to swarm around honey. It's like, ⁓ if you're interested in Atlanta or if you're in Atlanta and curious, okay, everybody gather here. ⁓ I'm wondering, with the work that you've done,
Dani-chan: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: like that, is that effective? And if it's effective, how can creators use that type of methodology in the pieces that they're working on?
Dani-chan: Absolutely. ⁓ So with those types of pieces, the goal is to, yes, reach a more general audience. the intent is people who want to either move or live in the Atlanta area. ⁓ And so it's more of like this overview of the city, things that you would like to do, things that you need to know, like what's the cost of living? of Atlanta is going to be more expensive than where I'm at right now. Other things to do, which I mean, yes, there are things to do in Atlanta. It's one of the biggest cities in Georgia. But like, what are things that people live there do? That type of post is trying to give you the best snapshot of the city. And so like, if you're trying to apply that to your own content, Think about how you can give ⁓ a snapshot at a very high level and then get into some of the weeds as you get through the content.
Mark Patterson: And so for let's just say a professional who might have experienced let's just say in ⁓ marketing, because I feel like a lot of the artists are fellow marketers. ⁓ How can they take the seat that they sit in in their corporate jobs and use a method like that to convey both their
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.
Mark Patterson: expertise and to get the bees to swarm, if you will. Like if you were advising the client and you said, hey, if you're looking to create your first few pieces of content that can just really be general market, get people gathered around your content, I would recommend you do this.
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. I think it depends on what the intent of the content is going to be. I do think that things that are, ⁓ informational, like guides are really going to be helpful for, ⁓ getting started. because when you're getting started, you're trying to, you're trying to build your audience, right? You're starting from zero or whatever. You're trying to get into content creation. You're not. You don't really have anybody knowing who you are. But being able to put like, guys, like, this is how you do this, or this is how I would approach this establishes you as a thought leader. I don't like you saying that. I've done it so bad. But establishes that you know what you're talking about. So by the time that you're getting into the more niche parts of your content,
Mark Patterson: Yes.
Dani-chan: Your audience knows that you already know what you're talking about. And you're most likely leading somebody through their own journey.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. I'm interested, I love how you distilled it down. You're like, so a guide is one way. Are there other types of content pieces other than guides that you feel like are effective tools to build an audience around?
Dani-chan: Mm. ⁓ When you fail. When I started, yes, when you fail. People, you think that, ⁓ no, I need to tell everybody how I'm like so amazing at this thing and ⁓ my gosh, look at all the things I've done. Telling people how something that's blown up in your face is actually really good content. ⁓ Because it also gives you the opportunity to reframe it as like, okay, yes, this was my goal. I flopped real bad. It didn't work. However, this was an opportunity for me to learn to for me to identify where I've made mistakes, where I could improve and how I can re-approach this situation. I love that type of content because it also brings it down from you being like this pedestal person like no, we're on this type of level. I'm telling you this so you can also avoid this and you are now, you know, skipping over my mistake, hopefully.
Mark Patterson: Mmm. Yes. Yeah. I think that's actually the value for the reader because if you're about to do or even I love that even for like, cause when I'm about to try a product, I like to know how someone has used it, the mistakes that they've made and, or if, or if you're trying to ⁓ use a software, I want you to tell me all the lessons that you learn to and get all the hacks. So I don't have to spend
Dani-chan: No. Mm-hmm. ⁓
Mark Patterson: 25 hours learning the thing. ⁓ I think that is very, very good. So we've got guides, we've got the ⁓ how you failed type posts. Are there any other ⁓ posts that you feel like are really effective for people to build an audience?
Dani-chan: Yes. ⁓ journeys, journey content. ⁓ that is how I started my content creation journey. ⁓ building up, building in public. That's what it's called. Not journey content, building public. I love a good building a public situation. ⁓ cause it gives me an inside of like, where are you going? How are you growing? I just, that's just, it's my brother. I love it.
Mark Patterson: Yes, Yes, I agree. I cannot tell you how many times I've hit follow in the past couple weeks on Instagram with a lot of the people who have been talking about, ⁓ I got laid off, I'm starting this new thing, and you can follow along and, you know, follow along with me for the ride. I'm like, I'm following. I gotta see you on the other side. Come on. ⁓
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: Or like there's randomly, I forget what his name is, but he decided to start a burrito company out of his kitchen. And then they've like expanded and like now it's like this beautiful brand. Like it's a whole thing. But yeah, like, and he's like documenting the process. So yeah, I think that type of building in public, think, yeah, that's a surefire way to get people interested in your story and want to take the journey.
Dani-chan: ⁓ Mm-hmm. Mm.
Mark Patterson: I agree. ⁓ Are there content styles or pieces that you feel like you've tested and thought, man, this is going to work and it just hasn't.
Dani-chan: specifically on LinkedIn video. I thought because there was a period of time where they were saying that video was going to be pushed more in the platform and I tried it. I had my first attempt was successful. The second one I was like, Whoa, that was bad. but I will say that just because a piece of content flops, it's not the end of the world. It will flop. There, there you're going.
Mark Patterson: Mmm.
Dani-chan: If there is a hundred percent chance that something you put out will perform horribly and that is okay because you can always put it out again at a different time.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Yes. That is so true. find that for me, it's just the whole idea of just getting the reps in has been the hardest part because it's like, man, you just got to carve out the time, do it, record the video, do the thing. ⁓ And what's been helpful with doing this podcast is now I have a bank of clips. So as you said, I'll be using a Saturday to kind of get my clip game up. And so that'll...
Dani-chan: Yes. you
Mark Patterson: I feel like that'll help me and really push me into the spot to where once I have a rhythm with that, I can start even creating my own videos. But I'm with you. feel like I know video is the unlock and I've seen mixed reviews with video because I've seen like, you know, I'll post a reel on Instagram does great. Post it on LinkedIn, Cricket. And
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Mark Patterson: But I've seen, to your point though, about people that we like to follow. I've seen some of these folks. Now granted, they do have huge followings and I don't want to name names. Let's scratch them. Let's just say I've seen people with huge followings on LinkedIn, like tens and maybe even hundreds of thousands for some, and their videos might only get a couple hundred likes or...
Dani-chan: Yes.
Mark Patterson: engagement. I mean, LinkedIn will humble you and I'm curious as to the, ⁓ I'm curious as to the engagement rate that really makes sense for video compared to like ⁓ some of the ⁓ more successful image. I will say, I'm literally jumping around, but my highest performing content piece I think on LinkedIn was me at a networking event and I
Dani-chan: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: there was a photo somebody took and I was like, ⁓ thank you so much. And so like, I just posted it as part of my, ⁓ like an image carousel on Instagram, but then I posted just the, you know, the image itself and, you know, telling the story about how I'm like, you know, I'm trying to do more in-person events. And ⁓ I realized, I was like, this is by far the highest performing piece that I've done. And...
Dani-chan: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: It's literally a photo. I mean, it took absolutely no effort. ⁓ Well, the effort to be there and get there, but the thought that I'm saying is I feel like there's a whole lot of, there's a whole lot of, ⁓ there's a benefit to just being authentic. Sorry, I've lost my thought because I heard an echo and now I'm like trying to get my mind back. And I'm like, what's it be? ⁓ wait a minute.
Dani-chan: But the thought that I'm saying is I feel like... in the next class.
Mark Patterson: Did I lose you? Danny, did I lose you? There we go. I think we're back. Yes, I can see you now.
Dani-chan: ⁓ my gosh. I don't know what happened. I'm in Nebraska and it has been windy. My internet is struggling just a little bit. I'm sorry.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ man. No, you're all good. we'll probably, ⁓ right now we're picking up the conversation probably because we had a little technical something or other go on. But ⁓ we were talking about how some pieces perform well, some don't. ⁓ And the surprising experience that I had with ⁓ a photo doing really well on LinkedIn versus like a whole reel that took me hours to edit. ⁓
Dani-chan: Yes.
Mark Patterson: So I really want to ⁓ like dive in and get some hot takes or like just rapid fire answers from you, from some of your, as a writer, some of the things that you're like, ⁓ my God, if I see another one of these, I'm going to scream. Tell me what it is that has been grinding your gears as a writer these days.
Dani-chan: Okay. Okay. I cannot stand when I have seen viral content on another platform and then I see it reappear on a different platform. Why are we copying, pasting other people's stuff?
Mark Patterson: Mmm. That's a fair one, that's a fair one. And as a writer, wait a minute, I literally wrote this down because I was like, I wanna do a whole video on this one day. ⁓ my gosh, hold on, bear with me. ⁓ my gosh. So somebody said the other day, resignate. And I was like, can we just clarify, can we clarify once and for all that something can resonate with you?
Dani-chan: REZIGNATE?
Mark Patterson: Or you can resign from something, but we cannot resignate. ⁓
Dani-chan: REGINATE? MY GOODNESS!
Mark Patterson: So that's what's been grinding my gears. So much so that I wrote it down. I was like, I can't, can't. Yes. What is inspiring you as a content creator these days?
Dani-chan: ⁓ man! ⁓ I've been really inspired by people just going for it. ⁓ Over the last couple of years, my social media content consumption has changed a little bit. I'm a little bit more on like people who are like starting out on their content creation side of things. And it's been really, really amazing to see people just go for what they want. ⁓ And even if it's not turning out the way that they thought it would, they're still like, okay, whatever, that's fine. We'll take the punches. We're rolling with the punches. It's been so cool to see that.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. And ⁓ you did mention some names of people that I think we both are enamored by and are inspired by. But are there creators that you're like, ⁓ my gosh, if I had a top five, like these are the people you just have to follow?
Dani-chan: ⁓ man. What any platform?
Mark Patterson: Yeah, why not?
Dani-chan: ⁓ Jesus, okay. Jackie Aina, that has been one of the content creators that I've followed the longest. I love her content. It is so good. And Anaya, she's on TikTok. She is a content creator, a queer content creator. She's amazing. Who else? Okay, I have to shout out Jade. I'm sorry. Jade, she's everything. I love Jade. Jade, thank you for being you. Is that three or four?
Mark Patterson: Yes. That was three.
Dani-chan: three. Brenda Smithrick. I gotta try him out again. He has completely changed the way that I've approached content creation. I don't feel like I'm like, then I've been just thrown into the middle of the ocean. I feel like I know what I'm doing when I'm approaching my content creation and how I'm moving forward with my content. Five. Me. Follow me. The Anime Anthropologist or All Platforms.
Mark Patterson: From honor!
Dani-chan: YouTube, Instagram, do I have a Twitch? don't have a Twitch. Substack, LinkedIn. Oh, but it's not the end. Oh yes, I have a page on LinkedIn, the anime anthropologist.
Mark Patterson: Yes, say the handle one more time so that way people can know where to follow you.
Dani-chan: ⁓ It's at the anime anthropologist. That's T-H-E, anime anthropologist.
Mark Patterson: Well, is there any parting wisdom that you would like to share with emerging creators before we go?
Dani-chan: Um, if you are starting out on your journey, just know that it's going to be rough. There's going to be a lot of wins. There's going to be a lot of loses or losses. Gosh, I have an English degree. I'm sorry, y'all. You're going to have a... Okay, no, resignate. You must resignate. I'm sorry. But yes, there going to be a lot of wins and some loses.
Mark Patterson: Just don't say, resignate. That's all I ask, but go ahead.
Dani-chan: Well, I says, Jesus, I'm trying so hard. but it's about the journey. The most important thing I will leave you with this, the most important thing about any content that you create is the quality. It's not the quantity. Well, for the most part, unless you're on TikTok, cause they want you to upload like 20 videos a day and I'm not doing that. But the quality of what you're is so important. Put effort into it. Don't overdo it. But put effort into what you're making and the people will find you. I promise. That's what I got.
Mark Patterson: Thank you so much, Danny. I appreciate you for coming through the Combo Room. And look, you're welcome anytime. I'll be checking out your stuff, the anime anthropologist. And ⁓ look, y'all, if you want to learn more about her, be sure to check her out. And we'll be back next week for another episode of Combo Room. See you soon.
Dani-chan: That's me.
Dani-chan: You
Mark Patterson: really interested to dive in because I ⁓ do content within the nonprofit work that I do ⁓ and on the traditional side when it comes to crafting, talking points, ⁓ copywriting, all the above. So I'm interested to geek out a little bit. I'm also interested in how early stage creators...
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: can really take what you've done for larger corporations and just incorporate that into their workflow to attract the audiences and the communities that they're looking to build. So without further ado, welcome to Convo Room, Danny.
Dani-chan: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Mark. I'm very glad to be here, very surprised to be here, but glad to be here nonetheless.
Mark Patterson: Absolutely. So ⁓ let's just get rolling first. ⁓ One, what got you into copywriting? And then I'm just gonna have you brag on some of the projects that you've worked on. like what, when did the light bulb go off for you? When did you realize, hmm, I have a talent for this?
Dani-chan: You That's a really good question. I actually started off ⁓ as a creative writer. That's my background. That's what I got my degree in. And when it came to getting my big job out of college, I actually started in workers compensation. ⁓ And I was looking for ways to finally utilize my degree. And I came across a position for a content strategist at my firm that I'm at right now, Herdad. It's a small firm in Omaha, Nebraska. And ⁓ it's been smooth sailing ever since.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ So you got started with creative writing. You now are doing that for corporations that typically it's like you're kind of, feel like a lot of times, I don't know if this is true for you, but you kind of have to either craft or really respect the voice of the organization that you're working with. What has been your experience? Do you feel like you've had to?
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: create a voice for the clients that you've served or do you feel like you've more or less just adapted what they've already done?
Dani-chan: ⁓ So when it comes to like my corporate job, my nine to five, yes, I, it's really easy for me to flow between the brand voices for each client that we write for. One of our biggest clients is a self storage company, but I've also written for lawyers, for banks, for medical providers here in town. But when it comes to like personal projects that I'm working on with clients, they do need a little bit more help. when it comes to like brand voice. And it's really a fun experience when they don't really know what they want to sound like, because then I'm able to help them keep their ideas, but also make it a little bit more streamlined.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. So let's just double click on that somebody who's listening right now I feel like the whole purpose of why they would listen to this conversation is number one How do I find my voice like people might be using? Generative AI to try to get their ideas flowing and going and then you realize wait a minute. I sound like a robot I want to sound more like me. I can't get these things to sound like me and then On the flip side, I feel like there might be some people that might have found some traction, but they really don't know how and why. They're writing, but they really don't know what their voice is. Like, what would you say is step one to finding your voice and being able to duplicate that in the different types of posts that you're writing and even the scripts that you're then taking on screen?
Dani-chan: Hmm When it comes to finding your brand voice, I have a couple of approaches. One is would you listen to you? If you read something that you've written and you read that back, you're like, yeah, I wouldn't buy it for me either. Then that's a sign for you to go back to the drawing board. ⁓ I think that a lot about, the thing about your brand voice is like you're, communicating to somebody that you're trustworthy, regardless if you're selling something, offering something, promoting something, you're just trying to get somebody's attention. ⁓ And the second approach I have is kind of, it's not stealing, but when you see somebody doing something that you like, pull from that. If you like the way that they're speaking, pull from that and just fold it into.
Mark Patterson: Yes!
Dani-chan: to your own personal way of communicating. It kind of takes away the guessing game and the stress of trying to compete with other people. When something works, it works. But it's important not to just straight up copy somebody. It's good to throw in your own personal charm into it.
Mark Patterson: I feel like there is, I think there is a lot of, let's just, we don't want to use the word copying as you said, but for lack of a better word, we'll just, we'll use the word copying. There is a lot of emulating happening. Yeah. Happening on socials, particularly, particularly I feel like in the B2B space. ⁓
Dani-chan: Yes. There we go, emulating. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: and with executives, everything sounds the same. I mean, it's almost if everything was a color, it will be blue, you know? And ⁓ don't let it be like on LinkedIn. I mean, it just all sounds the same. So how do you find yourself creating hooks or finding angles that are interesting? Because you might be talking about, I mean, you know,
Dani-chan: Yes! ⁓ no! Bye! ⁓
Mark Patterson: no shade to any of the organizations that you work for, but there are lots of competing businesses. So how do you make that one business stand out ⁓ when you're creating a post? is there a hook you have in mind? Is it the angle? Is it something else? I'm just really curious.
Dani-chan: Hmm. ⁓ One of the biggest things that I focus on is the intent. Your hook is really your way in. When you're on social media platforms and you're scrolling through, especially if you're on LinkedIn, blocks of text, that's human beings, especially in the video age where you're just quick to scroll. So if you're not getting somebody within that first sentence, you're probably not going to get them. ⁓ that's my, when I approach hooks, like even with like my personal ⁓ content creation and which is it, I do anime content creation on LinkedIn of all places, but I'm still able to capture people's attention because of the intent ⁓ that I'm putting into my hooks. I'm trying to write a hook. I mean, that catches people's attention. I guess there's no really fancy way to put it.
Mark Patterson: And are there methods that you use that writers that may not have as much experience, there methods that you use that they could deploy tomorrow? Like a rule of thumb or an approach that you have to say, you know what, if you're gonna go for that first sentence, are the hallmarks that you need to have within that sentence. And maybe that even you go by to kind of like,
Dani-chan: Okay.
Mark Patterson: Spot check. ⁓ And maybe your method isn't as, you know, ⁓ rigid, ⁓ you know, as a creative writer. Maybe it's kind of like I just shoot from the hip, but I'm curious, what do you check off the list when you say, hmm, this is good?
Dani-chan: Yeah. When you ask me that question, it really makes me think. When I'm writing my hooks or like when I'm writing any type of copy, my goal is to put, is to frame it in a way that makes somebody continue to read. ⁓ A lot of people like to put hot takes and that can get a little tricky because some people take a little bit. weird, I guess. ⁓ But yeah, I try to think about what, what I guess a hot take would be. I also do look at other people's content. ⁓ Again, we're not talking about copying here, but looking at other people's content that is successful, looking at how they're structuring their, their content is super, super helpful, especially if you're not really familiar. with how to write hooks or write a solid post. ⁓ Because I think sometimes, especially on LinkedIn, since we're focusing on LinkedIn, some people get really wordy and try to frame everything into a single post. ⁓ So I do highly recommend, find a couple people that you like, you like their content, look at what they're doing and try to... ⁓ maybe try to do some exercises where you're not mimicking but like following their kind of using their content as like a guide there i got it boom
Mark Patterson: Yes, yes. Yes. ⁓ I'm curious for the sake of creators who are trying to do content, but it feels like, man, I just do not have the time. Every time I try to sit down and write, it just feels like a chore or, you know, I have a lot I want to say, but I just can't seem to figure out a way to efficiently like break these big ideas up into small pieces.
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: How would you advise people to create a system to where they can write consistently and show up daily on social media?
Dani-chan: And it's actually a really good question because I work a nine to five, even though I do content creation and content creation is its own job. If you're not prepared to carve a little time out for yourself ⁓ during the week, then you're going to have some issues. It's not impossible. I'm still able to do it, but you still have to, you kind of have to be on top of your time management. The other thing I would suggest is to figure out a system. My favorite thing is Notion. I have a Notion page where everything lives, my ideas, my drafts, my content pillars, it all lives in there. The other thing is to determine how much time can you actually give to this. Like I said, content creation does take time, know, filming, writing. All those things are an investment. Me personally, my Saturday, I give it up. Not the whole day, but like until about three o'clock, I'm working on things so that I can prepare for the week. ⁓ batching. Batching is also gonna be your best friend. ⁓ Getting all of your ideas out, drafting it so you can get started and you can maybe. work on things throughout the week and little bite-sized pieces. ⁓ So those are a couple of things that I would recommend if you're trying to figure out how to ⁓ get into content creation, even if you don't have that much time to do it like full-time.
Mark Patterson: And for quality checks. mean, for, you know, I know some people swear by Hemingway to kind of make sure that their copy is a little bit more digestible to as many people as possible. And, you know, there are a myriad of tools out there, but I'm curious for you, what are your, do you have other tools that you use to make sure? that you're hitting the quality standards that you might be looking for, whether it's making sure like, God forbid a typo creeps through or ⁓ if there is any other thing that you use to kind of make sure that you're on brand with all of your pieces.
Dani-chan: You're done? ⁓ I actually don't. ⁓ a lot of this stuff is second nature to me now. I'm really just using a lot of my knowledge as a content strategist to drive my content as a creative content, as a anime content creator. So I don't really have any like backup tools like a, know, Bramberley or anything like that. But I do check my drafts before I publish. I read through it out loud. I read through it out loud to make sure that, you know,
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm.
Dani-chan: I'm not saying crazy stuff or, you know, know, stuff happens when you're trying to type things out. that's that good old reading it out and checking my draft is where I'm at.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, that's actually a really good, I feel like there are a couple of ⁓ tested, tried and true methods. ⁓ And from the old school I remember, ⁓ in which I did this the other day, ⁓ they were like, hey, you could literally just change the font of the document sometimes and that just to see it differently because our eyes just get so blind after you. And I was like, you know, I'm gonna do that today. And I like randomly did that this week. ⁓
Dani-chan: ⁓ yeah. See you differently.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ We've talked a lot about the granular nature of creating the actual content, but I really want to put on that strategist hat that you spoke about. For a lot of people, ⁓ they might get into content creation and have a goal. ⁓ I want to build an audience, or I want to secure some opportunities through thought leadership or whatever the case might be. How do you see... ⁓
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: Are there different types of content that you feel like attract types of audiences or do you feel like it's just all the same, just create good stuff?
Dani-chan: Could you ask that one more time? I think I have the answer, but I just want to hear the question one more time.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, like I'm thinking for people who are trying to create content for different reasons, ⁓ the start might stop them. They're like, well, I don't know if I should ⁓ do a newsletter ⁓ and do a week to week newsletter. I don't know, should I just post ⁓ small posts on LinkedIn? Should I ⁓ consider threads or Twitter? Like should ⁓ I?
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Okay.
Mark Patterson: or X now, should I, are there different types of content that you've seen with the pieces that you've written that attract the right audience? And by right, mean, you know, for the creator, maybe we need to be specific to the creator. I think the creator, ⁓ most people, are just like us, they're working a nine to five. They have ⁓ the idea,
Dani-chan: ⁓ yes. Thank you. Mmmmm Yeah.
Mark Patterson: of some, they've got some expertise and some stories that they can tell that are very unique to them, might not have a lot of time to do it. ⁓ What methods would you say, hey, look, if you're going to sit down and create some content, this is what you should pursue.
Dani-chan: Thank you. Right. Okay, so when it comes to content creation, the platform you choose matters. Unfortunately, ⁓ the algorithms on each of them are different. The intent of the user is going to be different ⁓ and the quality of your audience is going to be different. So ⁓ if you're wanting to reach somebody who will read a newsletter, ⁓ don't put all your content on like TikTok. Those people probably are not going to be your audience. Some people who are on LinkedIn are gonna be your audience. On Substack or ⁓ Beehive will be part of your audience. ⁓ If you're leaning more towards like, ⁓ like for me, for anime content creation, My audience is not on LinkedIn. There is an audience. There is one, but it's not going to be my main audience. I also own a sub stack and I have about 175 subscribers now. ⁓ so there's a big, the audience there is smaller, but it's a lot more, ⁓ the intent is there. Like that's where they're going to go and find my things. ⁓ I would recommend looking at like researching what types of platforms, like, how am I trying to say this? The type of content that you're making, research it, see how it performs on the platform, on other platforms. Does that make sense? I feel like I'm struggling.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, think, yeah. No, I feel like you basically you're saying you've got to know where your audience is. And before you decide to create the content, you've really got to figure out how do I get to those people? And I think it sometimes I think when it's online, we just overthink a lot of times because it's just like you.
Dani-chan: Yes. There you go. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: feel like you just have to boil the ocean. So you're like, okay, well, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do everything. ⁓ And I think that there is, there's merit to trying things and testing, you know, as a marketer, I feel like, you know, you can't just make assumptions. You've got to at least give it a go. Like just before you say, ⁓ well, this audience isn't here. Did you try? ⁓ But I think to your point, when you said you've got to see how that content is performing.
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm.
Mark Patterson: on whatever platform you're looking to pursue. so ⁓ based on your experience, where have you seen some surprising ⁓ collectives of audience with some of the businesses and clients you've worked for?
Dani-chan: would say that LinkedIn has been the most surprising. It's the last place I thought you would be able to build a community or find community because LinkedIn is, has in the past been considered like, this is where I go to find a job. This is how I find connections in the industry. But over the last couple of years, it's really started to take a shift and more creators are finding opportunities on the platform. which is a couple of people that actually caused me to get into content creation. One is Jade. ⁓ gosh, I forgot her last name. So sorry, Jade. ⁓ Yes, I love Jade so much. She's like who I aspire to be. ⁓ And the other one is Brandon Smithrick. He used to work for Kickstarter, I believe.
Mark Patterson: I know who you're talking about, purple hair? Yes, yes, yes. Yes.
Dani-chan: Just has completely changed the way that I look at social media in general. It's small, and like I've learned that a smaller audience does not mean that it's a bad audience. It's actually a really good audience to have because they're really focused on what you're creating. Another platform that I think is really surprising is also Substack. I would say that it's like LinkedIn, but more... Actually, no, it's more like Tumblr. And instead of photos, it's blogs. And a more mature Twitter or X or yes, Blue Scott, a more mature version of that, where there's like really interesting conversations happening. You can build a robust community on there. People are...
Mark Patterson: Hmm ⁓ Yes. Yes.
Dani-chan: As we've moved into the AI-ification of social media, ⁓ a lot of people are looking for authentic, real conversations. And so I found that Substack has been an amazing platform to be on.
Mark Patterson: Yeah, personally I run a weekly newsletter on Beehive and I find that the newsletter audience, I mean, I can't speak more highly of it. mean, it's such a, ⁓ while it can be one to many in terms of like a broadcast channel, but it's so personal because the thing I love about it is that people respond.
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: When it hits, now sometimes they don't say a word, okay? But like people respond and I feel like there's a certain candor people have in newsletters that you don't get in comments on social media. And sometimes the dialogue is, you can really help people if you're providing a ⁓ solution to something.
Dani-chan: Yes. Yes. Hmm.
Mark Patterson: Like with me, I feel like my whole purpose, like right now in this season of the podcast and then doing this newsletter that I've been doing, it's like to be a resource to the creator economy. And I find that when, and it's really not just the tactical stuff, but it seems like the things that are more mindset related and things that help people break through some of the ideas or the methods that have gotten them a little stuck.
Dani-chan: Who's doing this? Mmmmm
Mark Patterson: they're beyond grateful and will express that. And so I do feel like to your point, it's been really nice. Cause my newsletter is, feel, well, I used to say my newsletter was my largest channel, but now the podcast, because I've been interviewing wonderful people like you, the podcast has been creeping up a little bit past the newsletter. But I say, I say all that to say like,
Dani-chan: Yes.
Mark Patterson: I'm finding that even with the smaller audience, as you said, like the connection is so rich. And so while I'm interested in building the newsletter, I'm kind of with you. I really want to make sure that that intent stays there. ⁓ And I feel like before we get into the idea of like writing copy that can just attract a mass audience, like ⁓ I feel like I've seen
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ some general market content that you've done where you've talked about some lists that were related to cities and ⁓ done some other things that seem like very general market to catch the attention of lots of folks. ⁓ I'm really curious as to what gives you the confidence and or the assurance that the niche you chose is the one you want to stick with? Is it just passion about the topic?
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: Or do you feel like you're committed to it because you've got this vision and you're sticking to it?
Dani-chan: Man, that is a question, isn't it? I think that an Unleash Your Ditch is a good starting place. But as I have continued on this journey, I feel like it's widened. I was really focused on just like creating. So when I first started the anime anthropologist, my goal was to make anime a richer experience by talking about it from a purely art history perspective. Because that's my other big love is art history, Japanese art history. But as I started to look at other creators, I realized I was really putting myself in a pigeonhole. I was really putting myself into a box. And my ideas that were outside of it, I was like, ⁓ but that doesn't really fit within the niche that I've picked. anime art history is Japanese art history, not just anime in general. And so my recommendation when you're starting is to just create efforts. Figuring out what you're doing is going to come, you're going to change as you go on this journey. You think you're going to be, you know, the person who only talks about, you know, content creation, but you may find other subcategories that fit into that. so like keeping an open mind, I think is super, super, super important. And I also forgot to take a part of your question already.
Mark Patterson: What do you feel like you stuck with it out of passion or is it that you have more of like a strategic vision for why you're staying with this particular category?
Dani-chan: I would say both. I have loved anime my whole life. It has been a major reason why I got into content creation. And also I have a vision. I think that anime has the potential to really shift the way that people think about marketing.
Mark Patterson: Hmm, how so?
Dani-chan: specifically the way that people interact with their intended audiences. think over the last couple, I don't want to say the bad word, since the pandemic, people have really been interested in anime as a medium, which is really interesting because it's been here for a very long time. ⁓ And so watching companies try to tap into this new audience has also been very interesting. ⁓ And I think that there's an opportunity for people to. What's the word? Engage with audiences or their intended buyers in a more authentic and meaningful way. I think that a lot of the ⁓ marketing lingo like KPIs and all that good stuff gets really ⁓ overbearing on the process. And so I think that anime is gonna be ⁓ a different type of marketing, I think.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ Now, I'm curious for folks who are trying to attract like a general audience to their, let's just say if you are a ⁓ person that is a professional and since we're sticking with LinkedIn for this conversation and you're like, okay, I want to really just, I want to make sure I can break out of the box of
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: people that I know, but hook people that I don't know and create shareable content. ⁓ I noticed that you kind of did like a listicle situation with one of the companies that you ⁓ you served through your job. How do you go about creating those? And do you, do you find, I'm curious, do you find them to be enough of a hook to gather?
Dani-chan: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: a new audience around a company or a product launch.
Dani-chan: Did you tell me more about this listicle? I create so much stuff.
Mark Patterson: I thought there was like best places to live in Atlanta kind of thing. Yes.
Dani-chan: Okay, I know what you're talking about. know what you're talking about. ⁓ And then the question was how do I get to a more general audience? Is that the question?
Mark Patterson: Yeah, well, let me not assume. Is the purpose of a content piece like that to get people that are in that market or looking to maybe live in that market, it's almost like just a way to just get the bees to swarm around honey. It's like, ⁓ if you're interested in Atlanta or if you're in Atlanta and curious, okay, everybody gather here. ⁓ I'm wondering, with the work that you've done,
Dani-chan: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: like that, is that effective? And if it's effective, how can creators use that type of methodology in the pieces that they're working on?
Dani-chan: Absolutely. ⁓ So with those types of pieces, the goal is to, yes, reach a more general audience. the intent is people who want to either move or live in the Atlanta area. ⁓ And so it's more of like this overview of the city, things that you would like to do, things that you need to know, like what's the cost of living? of Atlanta is going to be more expensive than where I'm at right now. Other things to do, which I mean, yes, there are things to do in Atlanta. It's one of the biggest cities in Georgia. But like, what are things that people live there do? That type of post is trying to give you the best snapshot of the city. And so like, if you're trying to apply that to your own content, Think about how you can give ⁓ a snapshot at a very high level and then get into some of the weeds as you get through the content.
Mark Patterson: And so for let's just say a professional who might have experienced let's just say in ⁓ marketing, because I feel like a lot of the artists are fellow marketers. ⁓ How can they take the seat that they sit in in their corporate jobs and use a method like that to convey both their
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.
Mark Patterson: expertise and to get the bees to swarm, if you will. Like if you were advising the client and you said, hey, if you're looking to create your first few pieces of content that can just really be general market, get people gathered around your content, I would recommend you do this.
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. I think it depends on what the intent of the content is going to be. I do think that things that are, ⁓ informational, like guides are really going to be helpful for, ⁓ getting started. because when you're getting started, you're trying to, you're trying to build your audience, right? You're starting from zero or whatever. You're trying to get into content creation. You're not. You don't really have anybody knowing who you are. But being able to put like, guys, like, this is how you do this, or this is how I would approach this establishes you as a thought leader. I don't like you saying that. I've done it so bad. But establishes that you know what you're talking about. So by the time that you're getting into the more niche parts of your content,
Mark Patterson: Yes.
Dani-chan: Your audience knows that you already know what you're talking about. And you're most likely leading somebody through their own journey.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. I'm interested, I love how you distilled it down. You're like, so a guide is one way. Are there other types of content pieces other than guides that you feel like are effective tools to build an audience around?
Dani-chan: Mm. ⁓ When you fail. When I started, yes, when you fail. People, you think that, ⁓ no, I need to tell everybody how I'm like so amazing at this thing and ⁓ my gosh, look at all the things I've done. Telling people how something that's blown up in your face is actually really good content. ⁓ Because it also gives you the opportunity to reframe it as like, okay, yes, this was my goal. I flopped real bad. It didn't work. However, this was an opportunity for me to learn to for me to identify where I've made mistakes, where I could improve and how I can re-approach this situation. I love that type of content because it also brings it down from you being like this pedestal person like no, we're on this type of level. I'm telling you this so you can also avoid this and you are now, you know, skipping over my mistake, hopefully.
Mark Patterson: Mmm. Yes. Yeah. I think that's actually the value for the reader because if you're about to do or even I love that even for like, cause when I'm about to try a product, I like to know how someone has used it, the mistakes that they've made and, or if, or if you're trying to ⁓ use a software, I want you to tell me all the lessons that you learn to and get all the hacks. So I don't have to spend
Dani-chan: No. Mm-hmm. ⁓
Mark Patterson: 25 hours learning the thing. ⁓ I think that is very, very good. So we've got guides, we've got the ⁓ how you failed type posts. Are there any other ⁓ posts that you feel like are really effective for people to build an audience?
Dani-chan: Yes. ⁓ journeys, journey content. ⁓ that is how I started my content creation journey. ⁓ building up, building in public. That's what it's called. Not journey content, building public. I love a good building a public situation. ⁓ cause it gives me an inside of like, where are you going? How are you growing? I just, that's just, it's my brother. I love it.
Mark Patterson: Yes, Yes, I agree. I cannot tell you how many times I've hit follow in the past couple weeks on Instagram with a lot of the people who have been talking about, ⁓ I got laid off, I'm starting this new thing, and you can follow along and, you know, follow along with me for the ride. I'm like, I'm following. I gotta see you on the other side. Come on. ⁓
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: Or like there's randomly, I forget what his name is, but he decided to start a burrito company out of his kitchen. And then they've like expanded and like now it's like this beautiful brand. Like it's a whole thing. But yeah, like, and he's like documenting the process. So yeah, I think that type of building in public, think, yeah, that's a surefire way to get people interested in your story and want to take the journey.
Dani-chan: ⁓ Mm-hmm. Mm.
Mark Patterson: I agree. ⁓ Are there content styles or pieces that you feel like you've tested and thought, man, this is going to work and it just hasn't.
Dani-chan: specifically on LinkedIn video. I thought because there was a period of time where they were saying that video was going to be pushed more in the platform and I tried it. I had my first attempt was successful. The second one I was like, Whoa, that was bad. but I will say that just because a piece of content flops, it's not the end of the world. It will flop. There, there you're going.
Mark Patterson: Mmm.
Dani-chan: If there is a hundred percent chance that something you put out will perform horribly and that is okay because you can always put it out again at a different time.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. Yes. That is so true. find that for me, it's just the whole idea of just getting the reps in has been the hardest part because it's like, man, you just got to carve out the time, do it, record the video, do the thing. ⁓ And what's been helpful with doing this podcast is now I have a bank of clips. So as you said, I'll be using a Saturday to kind of get my clip game up. And so that'll...
Dani-chan: Yes. you
Mark Patterson: I feel like that'll help me and really push me into the spot to where once I have a rhythm with that, I can start even creating my own videos. But I'm with you. feel like I know video is the unlock and I've seen mixed reviews with video because I've seen like, you know, I'll post a reel on Instagram does great. Post it on LinkedIn, Cricket. And
Dani-chan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Mark Patterson: But I've seen, to your point though, about people that we like to follow. I've seen some of these folks. Now granted, they do have huge followings and I don't want to name names. Let's scratch them. Let's just say I've seen people with huge followings on LinkedIn, like tens and maybe even hundreds of thousands for some, and their videos might only get a couple hundred likes or...
Dani-chan: Yes.
Mark Patterson: engagement. I mean, LinkedIn will humble you and I'm curious as to the, ⁓ I'm curious as to the engagement rate that really makes sense for video compared to like ⁓ some of the ⁓ more successful image. I will say, I'm literally jumping around, but my highest performing content piece I think on LinkedIn was me at a networking event and I
Dani-chan: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: there was a photo somebody took and I was like, ⁓ thank you so much. And so like, I just posted it as part of my, ⁓ like an image carousel on Instagram, but then I posted just the, you know, the image itself and, you know, telling the story about how I'm like, you know, I'm trying to do more in-person events. And ⁓ I realized, I was like, this is by far the highest performing piece that I've done. And...
Dani-chan: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Mark Patterson: It's literally a photo. I mean, it took absolutely no effort. ⁓ Well, the effort to be there and get there, but the thought that I'm saying is I feel like there's a whole lot of, there's a whole lot of, ⁓ there's a benefit to just being authentic. Sorry, I've lost my thought because I heard an echo and now I'm like trying to get my mind back. And I'm like, what's it be? ⁓ wait a minute.
Dani-chan: But the thought that I'm saying is I feel like... in the next class.
Mark Patterson: Did I lose you? Danny, did I lose you? There we go. I think we're back. Yes, I can see you now.
Dani-chan: ⁓ my gosh. I don't know what happened. I'm in Nebraska and it has been windy. My internet is struggling just a little bit. I'm sorry.
Mark Patterson: ⁓ man. No, you're all good. we'll probably, ⁓ right now we're picking up the conversation probably because we had a little technical something or other go on. But ⁓ we were talking about how some pieces perform well, some don't. ⁓ And the surprising experience that I had with ⁓ a photo doing really well on LinkedIn versus like a whole reel that took me hours to edit. ⁓
Dani-chan: Yes.
Mark Patterson: So I really want to ⁓ like dive in and get some hot takes or like just rapid fire answers from you, from some of your, as a writer, some of the things that you're like, ⁓ my God, if I see another one of these, I'm going to scream. Tell me what it is that has been grinding your gears as a writer these days.
Dani-chan: Okay. Okay. I cannot stand when I have seen viral content on another platform and then I see it reappear on a different platform. Why are we copying, pasting other people's stuff?
Mark Patterson: Mmm. That's a fair one, that's a fair one. And as a writer, wait a minute, I literally wrote this down because I was like, I wanna do a whole video on this one day. ⁓ my gosh, hold on, bear with me. ⁓ my gosh. So somebody said the other day, resignate. And I was like, can we just clarify, can we clarify once and for all that something can resonate with you?
Dani-chan: REZIGNATE?
Mark Patterson: Or you can resign from something, but we cannot resignate. ⁓
Dani-chan: REGINATE? MY GOODNESS!
Mark Patterson: So that's what's been grinding my gears. So much so that I wrote it down. I was like, I can't, can't. Yes. What is inspiring you as a content creator these days?
Dani-chan: ⁓ man! ⁓ I've been really inspired by people just going for it. ⁓ Over the last couple of years, my social media content consumption has changed a little bit. I'm a little bit more on like people who are like starting out on their content creation side of things. And it's been really, really amazing to see people just go for what they want. ⁓ And even if it's not turning out the way that they thought it would, they're still like, okay, whatever, that's fine. We'll take the punches. We're rolling with the punches. It's been so cool to see that.
Mark Patterson: Mm-hmm. And ⁓ you did mention some names of people that I think we both are enamored by and are inspired by. But are there creators that you're like, ⁓ my gosh, if I had a top five, like these are the people you just have to follow?
Dani-chan: ⁓ man. What any platform?
Mark Patterson: Yeah, why not?
Dani-chan: ⁓ Jesus, okay. Jackie Aina, that has been one of the content creators that I've followed the longest. I love her content. It is so good. And Anaya, she's on TikTok. She is a content creator, a queer content creator. She's amazing. Who else? Okay, I have to shout out Jade. I'm sorry. Jade, she's everything. I love Jade. Jade, thank you for being you. Is that three or four?
Mark Patterson: Yes. That was three.
Dani-chan: three. Brenda Smithrick. I gotta try him out again. He has completely changed the way that I've approached content creation. I don't feel like I'm like, then I've been just thrown into the middle of the ocean. I feel like I know what I'm doing when I'm approaching my content creation and how I'm moving forward with my content. Five. Me. Follow me. The Anime Anthropologist or All Platforms.
Mark Patterson: From honor!
Dani-chan: YouTube, Instagram, do I have a Twitch? don't have a Twitch. Substack, LinkedIn. Oh, but it's not the end. Oh yes, I have a page on LinkedIn, the anime anthropologist.
Mark Patterson: Yes, say the handle one more time so that way people can know where to follow you.
Dani-chan: ⁓ It's at the anime anthropologist. That's T-H-E, anime anthropologist.
Mark Patterson: Well, is there any parting wisdom that you would like to share with emerging creators before we go?
Dani-chan: Um, if you are starting out on your journey, just know that it's going to be rough. There's going to be a lot of wins. There's going to be a lot of loses or losses. Gosh, I have an English degree. I'm sorry, y'all. You're going to have a... Okay, no, resignate. You must resignate. I'm sorry. But yes, there going to be a lot of wins and some loses.
Mark Patterson: Just don't say, resignate. That's all I ask, but go ahead.
Dani-chan: Well, I says, Jesus, I'm trying so hard. but it's about the journey. The most important thing I will leave you with this, the most important thing about any content that you create is the quality. It's not the quantity. Well, for the most part, unless you're on TikTok, cause they want you to upload like 20 videos a day and I'm not doing that. But the quality of what you're is so important. Put effort into it. Don't overdo it. But put effort into what you're making and the people will find you. I promise. That's what I got.
Mark Patterson: Thank you so much, Danny. I appreciate you for coming through the Combo Room. And look, you're welcome anytime. I'll be checking out your stuff, the anime anthropologist. And ⁓ look, y'all, if you want to learn more about her, be sure to check her out. And we'll be back next week for another episode of Combo Room. See you soon.
Dani-chan: That's me.
