Ever notice how thriving gets all the good press? And surviving gets treated like that friend we don't invite to brunch. We say, "I'm thriving." When things sparkle, "But I'm surviving." That's whispered like a confession. What if both are sacred? What if the real art of living is learning to survive, to hold survival, and thriving in the same breath? Welcome to Conversations with Thomas. I'm your host, Thomas Kevin Dolan, speaking from the island of Oahu, the ancestral home of the Kanakamali, whose wisdom, resilience, and aloha still pulse through every wave, every wind, every breath of this place. Today, we're exploring that in between space, the messy miraculous middle where surviving and thriving aren't opposite, but dance partners. Let me chat about I'm calling this sir thriving 101 because here's the thing. Survival isn't a dirty word. It's biology. The brain's first job isn't to make you happy. It's actually to keep your ass alive. Psychologist Dr. Thema Brian, past president of the American Psychological Association, says this. Healing is not becoming the version of yourself who escaped the fire. It's becoming the one who made it through. still carrying your joy. That's surviving. It's the hybrid state where endurance meets evolution where we don't just get through, we grow through. Isn't that cool? We just don't get through, we grow through. And yet, most of us carry a lowgrade shame about survival. We post our highlights and hide our holding patterns. As a little boy growing up, we were in survival mode all the time. welfare was how it is that we survived. And I remember learning to be so ashamed of being on welfare. We post our highlights and we hide our holding patterns. We whisper, "I'm just trying to make it." As though that's not a triumph. But every cell in your body disagrees. Your nervous system literally rewards persistence. Neuroscientist Richard Davidson found that resilience isn't the absence of stress. It's the speed at which you return to center. That's not thriving instead of surviving. That's thriving through it. It's like emotional crossfit. We're building core strength in the middle of life squats and lunges. Let me share with you a bit of my story with the suggestion that it was built for this notion of surriving. When I began writing my memoir, Little Fag:G, a journey of self-acceptance and healing, I thought I was ready to face my life on paper. Turns out I was wrong. And that's how I knew it was working. I had given little thought that by writing this memoir, I would come face to face with how unprepared I was for half the things I'd gone through. Yet, page by page, I realized I was built for it. This book chronicles the events that shaped me. The pain of sexual abuse, the confusion of sexuality, the masquerade of religion, the ache of family separation, the near misses with despair, the healing that came in slow motion. Maya Angelou once said, "My mission in life is not merely to survive, but to thrive and to do so with some passion, some compassion, some humor, and some style. I feel that line animating my life because I've known darkness and laughter in equal measure. Growing up amid addiction, violence, and poverty, survival was oxygen. I didn't grow up with a growth mindset. I had a stay alive through Tuesday mindset, but somewhere in the chaos, endurance became my superpower. I learned you could be healed in the dark. That the darkness of the soul is really just the hallway between who you were and who you were becoming. And my gayness, my queerness, it boyed me. It became both wound and wing. Ocean Vong writes this. I love this young man. Let no one mistake us for the fruit of violence, but that violence having passed through the fruit failed to spoil it. That line lives in my bones because surviving didn't poison me. It seasoned me. I see now that survival isn't the opposite of thriving. It's actually the training ground for it. Let's talk about the science of the space between. Here's where the curious aspect of me wants to roll up my sleeves and do a deep dive. Surviving isn't just poetic. It's physiological. When we survive something uh loss, trauma, heartbreak, the brain encodes it in the amygdala, the emotional memory center. And when we reflect or reframe and integrate that experience through therapy, coaching, storytelling, even laughter, we activate the preffrontal cortex, literally rewiring the story at a biological level. Psychologists call this post-traumatic growth. The the capacity to build no meaning. The capacity to build new meaning because of what hurt us, not in spite of it. It's what my entire book is about. It's what my entire life has been about. But society often glorifies bounceback resilience. Britney Cooper, author of Eloquent Rage, calls this out. And if you haven't read the book, h I really want to encourage you to. Britney Cooper, a powerhouse. Britney says this, "Black women are not magic. We are human and our strength should not require our suffering." That feels like gospel to me. We can hold resilience and rest, endurance and ease, surviving and thriving. We don't have to choose between being strong and being soft because news flash, Beyonce [ __ ] naps.
Let me give you a little promo for something new in my life. It's called Heartful Rebellion. Speaking of Rest in Rebellion, I've been creating something new. It's called Heartful Rebellion. It lives on Instagram, heartful rebellion. And it's a small series of short, honest talks, video, little jolts of courage and compassion about what it really means to live from the heart. Each one is a reminder that rebellion isn't always loud. Sometimes it's choosing tenderness in a world addicted to toughness. If this episode lands for you, if you're curious about heartful rebellion, come join me there. Bring your heart. Bring your questions. Bring your humanity and your humanness because the revolution starts within and sometimes it's only a minute or so long. Back to the podcast. A couple of practices. Sur survriving. That's a tough one for me to say. Surriving practice number one. I call it the daily debrief. It's actually really funky. So, how do you sur survive in real life beyond the hashtags and the heart emojis? Here's a practice that helps me. I call it the daily debrief. And it's really quite lovely and really faking brave to do. Every night before bed, take two minutes. That's it. Just two minutes to ask yourself three questions. The first, what tried to take me out today? Isn't that cool? What tried to take me out today? The second, what helped me stayed in? And a third, what did I learn about my own capacity? This simple act trains your nervous system to recognize progress over perfection. You start to see yourself not as barely cooping. That's funny. You start to see yourself not as barely coping, but as actively adapting. See, there's mess and there's laughter. Oh my gosh.
Neuroscience calls this neurosception. new reception of safety. Actually, the body realizing, hey, I made it. I'm safe now. That's how survival becomes wisdom, just like I did by [ __ ] up my own script. Uh Rachel Cargle, author of Renaissance of our own, says rest is not a reward for having survived. It's the ecosystem in which we heal. The daily brief is the daily debrief is rest in reflection form. a way to honor your endurance without in needing without needing a gold star or for me as a little elementary school Catholic boy a holy sticker. So thriving practice number two, I call this the joy of rebellion because thriving as always is grand. Sometimes it's coffee in the sun after a storm. Sometimes it's dancing in your kitchen like you're headlining Coachella, but only your cat knows. Tracy Tracy Ellis Ross said, "Joy is not naive. Joy is a decision, sometimes a radical one. The joy of rebellion is choosing joy not after you heal, but as you heal. It's laughing in the middle of the mess. It's daring to create comfort instead of waiting for the chaos to stop. You don't have to earn ease. Surviving means knowing that pleasure, creativity, and laughter aren't distractions from healing. They are healing. I'm laughing at myself because that mess up. I really want to go back and redo it, but I'm not going to because that's healing for me. That's allowing me to have you see my messy middle. And yet there's a part of me that wants to put on a mask I call perfection or holier than thou or what's the other one? The other one is I got it all figured out. I'm not going to put those masks on. I'm going to stay with this idea of my messy middle and my laughter to heal for me. I digress. And here's the science that back it up. Dopamine and serotonin, your brain's thriving chemicals rise not only during success, but during small repeated acts of delight. So yes, singing in the shower, counts as trauma recovery. Let's let's chat about integration. I call it the space we make. Surviving isn't a state you reach. You got to get that. Surviving isn't a state you reach. It's a rhythm, right? It's a rhythm you learn. One breath of survival. One breath of thriving. Inhale grit. Exhale grace. And maybe that's the real practice. Learning to stop pathizing survival. There's nothing wrong with it. I wish I'd known this in junior high school when those horrible children came at me with this idea that you're you're on welfare. All you doans are welfare folks. you I I can't even remember what they said, but it was so mean. They were pathologizing our family's ability to survive and it's not something that I do anymore. To see survival, to see it as divine proof of life, to honor it as part of what what God is here so that the thriving part of us could move us forward. So when I look back now at the boy who didn't know if he'd make it out alive, I don't pity that little guy. I thank him. He actually built the floor I get to dance on. Isn't that great? So let me close with this reflection. So whatever
no, wherever you are right now, if you're holding it together with duct tape and hope, that's actually holy work. you're already surviving. And if it feels easy for a moment, don't wait. The expression, right, the other shoe is going to drop. If life feels easy for a moment, don't wait for the other shoe to drop. Dance with both [ __ ] shoes on. Surviving is the middle ground where humanity meets humor. where scars become stories and where survival is not shameful. It's really it's really sacred. Thank you for joining me for this episode of Conversations with Thomas. It feels a little bit wacky today and I'm really happy that it is. If today's wacky conversation stirred something in you, maybe it's time to begin one of your own. I can support you in that. You can find me at thomaskelon.com and on Instagram again at heartfulrebellion where the next small rebellion of heart is actually probably already waiting for you. I'm the producer. Uh not true. My husband is the producer. Conversations with Thomas is brought to you by me, Thomas Kevin Dolan. And of course it's beautifully and sacredly executive produced by my amazing husband Adam Ma. I want to invite you to think of this show as a heart-to-heart with a side of science. It's meant to feed your curiosity and tend your mental health garden. But if you need deeper care, please reach out to a licensed therapist, counselor, certified coach, or doctor. What I share here is nourishment for reflection, not a replacement for professional support. So until next time, thank you for being here. I want to invite you to keep living, leading, and loving. And of course, do that from your gorgeous heart.
Let me give you a little promo for something new in my life. It's called Heartful Rebellion. Speaking of Rest in Rebellion, I've been creating something new. It's called Heartful Rebellion. It lives on Instagram, heartful rebellion. And it's a small series of short, honest talks, video, little jolts of courage and compassion about what it really means to live from the heart. Each one is a reminder that rebellion isn't always loud. Sometimes it's choosing tenderness in a world addicted to toughness. If this episode lands for you, if you're curious about heartful rebellion, come join me there. Bring your heart. Bring your questions. Bring your humanity and your humanness because the revolution starts within and sometimes it's only a minute or so long. Back to the podcast. A couple of practices. Sur survriving. That's a tough one for me to say. Surriving practice number one. I call it the daily debrief. It's actually really funky. So, how do you sur survive in real life beyond the hashtags and the heart emojis? Here's a practice that helps me. I call it the daily debrief. And it's really quite lovely and really faking brave to do. Every night before bed, take two minutes. That's it. Just two minutes to ask yourself three questions. The first, what tried to take me out today? Isn't that cool? What tried to take me out today? The second, what helped me stayed in? And a third, what did I learn about my own capacity? This simple act trains your nervous system to recognize progress over perfection. You start to see yourself not as barely cooping. That's funny. You start to see yourself not as barely coping, but as actively adapting. See, there's mess and there's laughter. Oh my gosh.
Neuroscience calls this neurosception. new reception of safety. Actually, the body realizing, hey, I made it. I'm safe now. That's how survival becomes wisdom, just like I did by [ __ ] up my own script. Uh Rachel Cargle, author of Renaissance of our own, says rest is not a reward for having survived. It's the ecosystem in which we heal. The daily brief is the daily debrief is rest in reflection form. a way to honor your endurance without in needing without needing a gold star or for me as a little elementary school Catholic boy a holy sticker. So thriving practice number two, I call this the joy of rebellion because thriving as always is grand. Sometimes it's coffee in the sun after a storm. Sometimes it's dancing in your kitchen like you're headlining Coachella, but only your cat knows. Tracy Tracy Ellis Ross said, "Joy is not naive. Joy is a decision, sometimes a radical one. The joy of rebellion is choosing joy not after you heal, but as you heal. It's laughing in the middle of the mess. It's daring to create comfort instead of waiting for the chaos to stop. You don't have to earn ease. Surviving means knowing that pleasure, creativity, and laughter aren't distractions from healing. They are healing. I'm laughing at myself because that mess up. I really want to go back and redo it, but I'm not going to because that's healing for me. That's allowing me to have you see my messy middle. And yet there's a part of me that wants to put on a mask I call perfection or holier than thou or what's the other one? The other one is I got it all figured out. I'm not going to put those masks on. I'm going to stay with this idea of my messy middle and my laughter to heal for me. I digress. And here's the science that back it up. Dopamine and serotonin, your brain's thriving chemicals rise not only during success, but during small repeated acts of delight. So yes, singing in the shower, counts as trauma recovery. Let's let's chat about integration. I call it the space we make. Surviving isn't a state you reach. You got to get that. Surviving isn't a state you reach. It's a rhythm, right? It's a rhythm you learn. One breath of survival. One breath of thriving. Inhale grit. Exhale grace. And maybe that's the real practice. Learning to stop pathizing survival. There's nothing wrong with it. I wish I'd known this in junior high school when those horrible children came at me with this idea that you're you're on welfare. All you doans are welfare folks. you I I can't even remember what they said, but it was so mean. They were pathologizing our family's ability to survive and it's not something that I do anymore. To see survival, to see it as divine proof of life, to honor it as part of what what God is here so that the thriving part of us could move us forward. So when I look back now at the boy who didn't know if he'd make it out alive, I don't pity that little guy. I thank him. He actually built the floor I get to dance on. Isn't that great? So let me close with this reflection. So whatever
no, wherever you are right now, if you're holding it together with duct tape and hope, that's actually holy work. you're already surviving. And if it feels easy for a moment, don't wait. The expression, right, the other shoe is going to drop. If life feels easy for a moment, don't wait for the other shoe to drop. Dance with both [ __ ] shoes on. Surviving is the middle ground where humanity meets humor. where scars become stories and where survival is not shameful. It's really it's really sacred. Thank you for joining me for this episode of Conversations with Thomas. It feels a little bit wacky today and I'm really happy that it is. If today's wacky conversation stirred something in you, maybe it's time to begin one of your own. I can support you in that. You can find me at thomaskelon.com and on Instagram again at heartfulrebellion where the next small rebellion of heart is actually probably already waiting for you. I'm the producer. Uh not true. My husband is the producer. Conversations with Thomas is brought to you by me, Thomas Kevin Dolan. And of course it's beautifully and sacredly executive produced by my amazing husband Adam Ma. I want to invite you to think of this show as a heart-to-heart with a side of science. It's meant to feed your curiosity and tend your mental health garden. But if you need deeper care, please reach out to a licensed therapist, counselor, certified coach, or doctor. What I share here is nourishment for reflection, not a replacement for professional support. So until next time, thank you for being here. I want to invite you to keep living, leading, and loving. And of course, do that from your gorgeous heart.
