WEBVTT
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Welcome back listeners, and welcome back Josh.
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Hey, Jesse.
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It's, it feels like it's been a while.
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I, I think it's been a couple
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I don't know if this is gonna be the next episode we post, but we did miss a week posting.
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Oof.
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mostly because, I think we actually have a few episodes recorded, but I was just too lazy to edit them.
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So I might just edit this one and post it after we're done, but
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Fair, fair Then it'll make a lot of sense.
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People are like,"Oh, where were they?" They just had this episode in the middle
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Yeah.
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We got busy.
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I went to a concert and then, not to say too much about your personal life, but your personal life definitely got busy.
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Yes.
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So
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Yeah, it's been a busy couple of months and work also a lot of stuff that I have to take over, so
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Oh,
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that's fun.
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That's good, right?
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yeah.
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I'm not getting paid to take it over I think sometimes when you're put in charge of like different things, right?
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This is temporary, right?
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Somebody's out, so I'm taking over their responsibilities,
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Oh,
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and it gives you the option to do something new, right?
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If this thing isn't working and I'm the person responsible for it let's shake it up.
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What's funny is we just posted an episo- we just posted an episode about that.
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I don't know if you remember, but we had talked about like vacation, and you were like you should take vacation."
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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funny.
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Yep.
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Good callback.
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and I honestly think when they when they come back, I'm like,"Hey, by the way, here's all the things that were different and you decide what you like and what you don't like."
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Here's the things you were supposed to document and you didn't, so I had to pull my hair out figuring it out.
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Thanks.
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it's
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you know
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now.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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Oh, God.
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this will make sense.
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It's a segue into our episode.
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But I do have to say posted an episode about me making friends, right?
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We came up with a couple different ideas.
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I've been implementing them.
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I've been trying.
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oh.
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So I think
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Oh
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of the things that resonated with me in our last episode that you talked about was, essentially how I hate small talk, but you're like,"Small talk's a gateway into big talk." And I still hate small talk, don't get me wrong.
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But I have done is I've figured out things that can be considered small talk that are questions that least I would find interesting what the answer is.
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It's really hard to segue into these types of questions, And the listeners will know what this...
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'Cause one of the questions is the question I proposed to you about this episode.
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but I did it, right?
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I actually just went to a concert, and while I was at the concert it was a Good Charlotte and I forgot who was headlining.
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Good Charlotte was co-headlining with Good Charlotte, but it was some death metal band.
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Good Charlotte being, like, a punk band, and then a death metal band.
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Obviously people there, there was a very small intersection of people who were s- similar or there for both of them.
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It was, like, one or the other.
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It was really good for me to walk around the concert and just ask"Oh, who are you here for?" And I would be honest, I knew the answer for most of them because they either had Good Charlotte punk attire on, or they had very specific death metal, attire on, but anyways, it worked.
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I actually, I met I met someone who actually claimed that they were a backup bassist for the death metal band.
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And I don't actually
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Huh?
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it was true or not, but I literally found out because I was just walking around and asking people this question, and I asked him, he's I'm actually here for them." That's hilarious.
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So it was...
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It, y- so you were right?
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None of the talks transitioned much because mostly everybody was like,"Stop asking me w- questions, you weirdo." The bassist, I, me and him talked for a little bit, and he told me how he drove down from Maine, which was a really far drive to come be a backup bassist.
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And we didn't get to talk too much because I had to get back to the seats but the conversation would've gone on for a little bit longer, and I would've never met this interesting guy who may or may not have been lying to me while I was at the concert.
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Kudos to your your tip about making big talk small, or small talk big talk.
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It worked.
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It did work
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I will say there is a little bit of reading the room,'cause sometimes it's y- figuring out the right time to even make the small talk, right?
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You're right
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the sort of classic example is could you start a conversation with somebody in the next stall in the bathroom?
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Sure, you could.
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But most people don't want to, right?
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Most people, that's their private time,
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so let me hear your thoughts.
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One ply or two ply?
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Red ply, blue ply.
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No.
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So you're saying I shouldn't start our conversation like that?
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I would say that to build up the knowledge of when and when not to start a conversation, you need to have stumbled into some bad conversations.
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I feel like you don't get the skill from reading about it.
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You get the skill from just being there and messing around.
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Yeah, no, there was probably some people I asked the question to I probably shouldn't.
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They were s- very specifically on their phones.
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They basically had F-U written on their foreheads, and
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Yeah.
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as, I was like,"You know what?
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Josh would a- would ask this person a question."
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I'm definitely on the lookout, right?
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I think I have a somewhat of filter on, right?
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But I still...
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It's never like there's nobody, right?
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Yeah.
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so
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Okay,
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was your question?
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You had a question you wanted to Ask the people
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of the, again, like my thought process was you ask people random questions.
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So I've been testing it on my wife, and one of the questions actually did spark a good conversation.
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So my question to you is, would you rather have, be overconfident, right?
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Like misguided confidence, like you're so confident.
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Or would you rather be n- have very little confidence in yourself, like to the point where you second-guess yourself all the time?
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I, and I ask this for not only from your point of view, so for yourself, but also from a coworker perspective.
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Would you rather work with a coworker who has misguided overconfidence or so little confidence in themselves you know, they're not really sure what to do?
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So when I hear this question, I think of a couple things.
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First of all, the idea of like over or under confidence means that the confidence doesn't match your ability, right?
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Yeah,
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it's not overconfidence, right?
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Let's say you're really good at something and you're confident that you're good at it, that's not overconfidence.
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You're just good at that thing.
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Yeah.
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It's matching,
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Yeah
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right?
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So overconfidence is saying,"Hey, I'm way better at this thing than I think I am."
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Yeah
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And un- under confidence is I'm--"I don't think I'm very good at this thing, even though I'm actually quite good at it," right?
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Yeah,
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I think for me, myself, I think personally being overconfident I think is gonna put me into situations that will test my ability
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Yeah
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more than being under confident, right?
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I know a lot of developers feel that sort of imposter syndrome, right?
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Yeah.
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think, I can't do anything," right?
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They do have some level of under confidence.
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But if you think,"Oh, no I'm better than this," right?
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You can-- you'll push yourself in a different direction, I think.
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I don't know.
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That's my rough take.
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So for me to start that first part of the question, I would rather be overconfident because I think it's gonna push me into places that's gonna develop my skills Think that's a good place to be.
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I'm not saying I am overconfident, but I think of
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yeah.
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two extremes,
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Yeah
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that's the one I would rather land in.
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Yeah.
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what's your take?
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So for me, I would rather be less confident, right?
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And here's the, and here's my take on it.
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A- so y- you were saying is I definitely agree with you, but my issue is with people who are overconfident is they also tend to have a tendency to not listen to peers they are wrong, And for me personally, I would hate it I stuck to my guns to something and I'm like,"No, you're wrong.
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I'm right.
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We're doing it this way," and then have it completely blow up in my face.
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And I would...
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if I had the choice to have that situation hap- to happen to me, whether one situation it's like it blew up in my face versus we didn't go with the way I wanted to and the way I figured it was gonna happen did happen in a negative way, I wouldn't say I told you but at least I could help recover from those situations, right?
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I'm so afraid of being the person who never listens to guidance, right?
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And know when to listen to people and when not to listen to them, that I would rather err on the side of caution and always listen to people.
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And i- if they're passionate about it, always take their side over going with my direction,
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I actually think, so there's a couple funny things that came to me during this.
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First of all is that I think I, I'm gonna backpedal a bit on what I said.
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I think that if you're overconfident,
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Oh.
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you're gonna push yourself into situations that, where you have to develop the skills, right?
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yeah
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But you're right that maybe if you're overconfident, you actually don't even think that you need to improve,
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Yeah.
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Whereas in somebody who's underconfident, they might say,"You know what?
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I need to be continuously learning.
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I need to make sure that I'm better," right?
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They might already be amazing, but by being underconfident they're thinking I need to be even better than I am," right?
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ja
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And to that extent I think either way you can put yourself in sort of a paralysis where you're saying,"I can't do anything.
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I'm underconfident," right?
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Or,"I'm overconfident.
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I don't d- need to do anything." It's really hard to s- say that one is definitively better than the other.
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But the other thing that made me think of was I'm probably indexing on overconfidence as the ideal thing because I think myself, I am underconfident,
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yeah.
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I
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that's so funny you say that because I feel like I'm the opposite.
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I'm like overconfident too much.
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So it's like we-- It's almost like we have the same exact problem, but from different perspectives.
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yeah.
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Like I'm under confident and I wish I were over confident, And you're over confident and you wish you were under confident.
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And like really what it is w- we both really just wanna meet in the middle.
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We wanna have that perfect level of confidence where you appropriately know exactly how,
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Yeah.
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skilled you are
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it's hard too, right?
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Because there, no matter what...
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'Cause, this is all based off of arguments, right?
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Or making a decision.
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And I Matter what you do, if you make decision, if you're a type of person that's in a role that's makes decisions, you will make bad decisions.
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Perfect, right?
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And you have to accept that.
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And if you accept it, and you just have to learn, exactly to your point, as long as you learn from your mistakes, I don't think it matters what type of person you are, as you're learning from them and growing from them.
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And if you're under-confident, you gain confidence, and if you're over-confident, maybe you should back down a little bit.
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As long as, as you are that type of person, you con- constantly are growing and shaping and juggling that perfect line, I think it's fine.
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But it, I actually think what's really interesting about this question is you find out who people are.
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I think that's what I'm finding out from this, right?
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How you answer that question is who you are at your job.
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Yeah.
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I wonder though, I wonder if there's somebody who's actually overconfident who thinks that they're underconfident, right?
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'Cause a lot of this is also it's a perception, right?
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I think I'm underconfident for my abilities, but it's very possible that I am actually overconfident.
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I think, for instance, that you are appropriately overconfident because I think you're very skilled.
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I think you have so much knowledge that it's appropriate to be like on a little bit of a tower.
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Yeah, maybe you're a little bit above that, but
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yeah, there's definitely some engineers I think you talk to that I work with that are probably like,"No, that guy's a jerk."
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Yes.
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Yes I am familiar with not only that type, but that specific-- those specific people.
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With, with that said going into the other part of the question, if you will, if you'll let me.
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Yes, please
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so the other part of the question was, would you rather have a coworker or a manager who was overconfident or underconfident?
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This is where it makes me think about the question, my love of overconfidence, right?
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Because I will go, I'll go back and forth here, right?
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And I think about the best managers I've had or the worst managers I've had, right?
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One of the general traits that I think exists in a good manager is, first of all, believing in the team, right?
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Yeah.
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I think having overconfidence in the team is probably a good thing, right?
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"My team is amazing," right?
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That, that kind of energy, right?
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If you think of a manager as kind of a cheerleader, right?
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They might not have the best team, but if they say,"I have the best team," sometimes people will rise to that occasion, right?
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Yeah
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A manager who's overconfident in their team I think is really good.
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A manager that's overconfident in themselves can definitely get a team into some troubled waters.
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Yeah.
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Interesting.
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That's you're almost adding a, a, another dimension to the question, Because you're say- you're saying they're overconfident in their selves versus overconfident in the team.
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And th- in that perspective, I'd agree with you.
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I would rather have a pr- manager who's overconfident in the team and not overconfident in himself, again as a manager, you want him h- at least have some thoughts about team.
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I would rather him think a team is m- more capable and having them live up to that expectation than to think,"Oh, that team is so incapable, I have to stand up for them." A- because I'm the you're almost adding an extra dimension, which
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And maybe I've only had...
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I've mostly had good managers, right?
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I actually really can't think of any manager that I was like,"Oh, that was a bad manager," right?
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It's just like I've had some really good managers and I've had some good managers, right?
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Yeah.
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And in general, like one of the things that I really appreciate in leadership, and I know we've talked about this, leadership and management are not actually the same thing,
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Yeah.
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Yeah, exactly.
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some of the people who are really good managers and really good leaders I feel like have that confidence to say,"Hey, we're heading on a path," right?
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Now, it's good to have the humility to say,"Maybe that was the wrong path.
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Maybe I made a mistake," but the leaders that I have the least respect for are the ones that are I don't know.
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Yeah, I know we need to either choose A or B, but why not both?""Why don't we just
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Yeah.
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like I, I appreciate managers and leaders who say,"We're committing to this," right?
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Over the ones that say,"Hey, you know what?
00:16:18.832 --> 00:16:21.482
Like I don't really know what we, we should do here.
00:16:21.658 --> 00:16:22.158
Yeah.
00:16:22.243 --> 00:16:23.623
don't we just do everything,"
00:16:23.859 --> 00:16:24.359
Yeah.
00:16:24.592 --> 00:16:25.873
That's an interesting take too.
00:16:25.873 --> 00:16:41.192
It's like you would rather have someone be confidently wrong because at least they pick a direction over someone who's so unconfident that they can't even physically make a direction, so the team is just running in 10 million, you
00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:41.460
Yeah.
00:16:41.870 --> 00:16:42.090
Yeah.
00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:43.320
Which I've seen before.
00:16:43.419 --> 00:16:45.429
I've definitely seen that, right?
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:49.279
And I that's one of my least favorite things, working for a manager
00:16:49.400 --> 00:16:50.061
interesting.
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:51.500
who doesn't know where they're going,
00:16:51.690 --> 00:16:51.980
yeah.
00:16:52.118 --> 00:16:56.977
It's like I'd rather have someone who's overconfidence as my manager, right?
00:16:57.028 --> 00:17:07.967
Overconfidence in the team, but also overconfident in his decisiveness to choose a direction as long as he listens to peers, right?
00:17:07.967 --> 00:17:17.008
Because I would be okay with a manager who chooses the wrong direction as long as it leads us to the ultimate end goal.
00:17:17.288 --> 00:17:32.958
Because, obviously as you head in the wrong direction, if are able to course correct along your way, heading in the wrong direction can ultimately lead you in the right direction over, like you said, not heading in any direction and just chaotically poking in all directions.
00:17:33.188 --> 00:17:35.488
You're never gonna go anywhere, know?
00:17:36.488 --> 00:17:42.387
Yeah, chaotically poking in all directions is definitely my least favorite, team to be working in.
00:17:42.438 --> 00:17:44.137
And as much as like that can be some...
00:17:44.208 --> 00:17:50.067
That can be fun having like the true experiments, it's just like when your experiments don't lead anywhere,
00:17:50.284 --> 00:17:50.733
Yeah.
00:17:50.877 --> 00:17:54.228
when they're just like jumping into the darkness,
00:17:54.549 --> 00:17:54.930
Yeah
00:17:55.917 --> 00:17:56.498
yeah.
00:17:56.827 --> 00:18:07.998
and I think that's a po- an important lesson for our listeners and for us is like, sometimes it's better to head in the wrong direction as long as you have a strong direction, right?
00:18:08.038 --> 00:18:13.117
And you're okay with course correcting once you find out it's the bad direction.
00:18:14.617 --> 00:18:21.028
I would argue more times than not, it's better to head in the wrong direction than to not be heading in any direction.
00:18:21.923 --> 00:18:22.383
Yeah.
00:18:22.502 --> 00:18:22.893
Yeah.
00:18:22.942 --> 00:18:26.053
And obviously there's a bunch of caveats here, right?
00:18:26.375 --> 00:18:26.915
of course.
00:18:27.212 --> 00:18:37.813
And, nothing is quite black and white, but I think that the, the ability to go and recognize when you have made a mistake, right?
00:18:37.873 --> 00:18:44.633
That is often the signature of overconfidence, is also the belief that even when you make mistakes that,"No, this is right."
00:18:44.852 --> 00:18:45.642
Exactly.
00:18:46.142 --> 00:18:46.902
Exactly
00:18:46.992 --> 00:18:51.452
so obviously both overconfidence and underconfidence are actually
00:18:51.503 --> 00:18:51.884
Yeah.
00:18:52.863 --> 00:18:53.222
right?
00:18:53.743 --> 00:18:54.054
Yeah.
00:18:54.492 --> 00:18:54.603
You
00:18:54.913 --> 00:18:55.413
actually
00:18:55.643 --> 00:19:07.333
Want somebody who's gonna push, but then also at the right time, which is very hard to figure out, but at the right time they're gonna say,"Let's review what we've done and if we're doing it the right way."
00:19:07.653 --> 00:19:10.413
What's funny is we're circling back to what you said.
00:19:11.134 --> 00:19:18.933
Because the first thing you said about yourself is you'd rather it be overconfident because then at least you can learn from your mistakes, right?
00:19:19.086 --> 00:19:19.277
Oh,
00:19:19.304 --> 00:19:19.544
So
00:19:19.544 --> 00:19:19.564
no, no
00:19:19.721 --> 00:19:22.571
was, that wa- that was the first thing you said, like literally
00:19:22.965 --> 00:19:23.165
Overconfidence...
00:19:23.215 --> 00:19:24.986
Hold on don't totally misquote me.
00:19:25.107 --> 00:19:25.798
Oh, sorry
00:19:26.195 --> 00:19:28.955
Overconfidence pushes you to new situations,
00:19:29.248 --> 00:19:29.587
Yeah.
00:19:29.627 --> 00:19:29.827
Yeah,
00:19:30.016 --> 00:19:30.195
right?
00:19:30.605 --> 00:19:32.415
To go in totally new directions.
00:19:32.698 --> 00:19:33.008
Yeah
00:19:33.066 --> 00:19:38.546
But I- underconfidence is actually where you might go and learn from those directions
00:19:38.981 --> 00:19:39.372
I don't know.
00:19:39.372 --> 00:19:46.461
I think you can be overconfident in heading in a direction, then be, what do you call it?
00:19:46.461 --> 00:19:47.571
Humble enough
00:19:47.834 --> 00:19:48.243
Yeah
00:19:48.402 --> 00:19:53.667
know when you've chosen the wrong direction and Afterwards,
00:19:53.884 --> 00:19:54.055
Yeah.
00:19:54.345 --> 00:19:55.704
That would be the ideal situation,
00:19:55.738 --> 00:19:56.428
there really is.
00:19:56.515 --> 00:19:56.825
Yeah.
00:19:57.438 --> 00:19:58.107
I like it.
00:19:58.724 --> 00:19:59.954
So I don't know.
00:20:00.255 --> 00:20:04.065
The truth is the examples where and it's like,"Oh, would you rather fight 100
00:20:04.837 --> 00:20:05.288
I know.
00:20:05.577 --> 00:20:05.867
Yeah.
00:20:05.884 --> 00:20:08.795
duck-sized horses or one horse-sized duck or whatever?"
00:20:09.285 --> 00:20:15.244
Okay, I haven't heard that one, but the ones I hear all the time is"Who would win, 100 men versus one gorilla?"
00:20:15.608 --> 00:20:15.818
Yeah.
00:20:15.868 --> 00:20:21.979
There's questions like that where the, the truth is like these are extremes,
00:20:22.365 --> 00:20:22.775
Yeah
00:20:23.249 --> 00:20:31.028
And I think you can learn something about people in the extremes, but the best situation is to never go quite that far in those directions,
00:20:31.138 --> 00:20:34.278
so circling back to the very beginning of this podcast,
00:20:34.433 --> 00:20:34.864
Yeah
00:20:34.969 --> 00:20:44.818
is this question a small talk question that leads to big talk, or is it maybe too deep of a first question to ask somebody when I walk up to them?
00:20:44.981 --> 00:20:45.872
Here's my gut.
00:20:46.061 --> 00:20:50.241
I would say it's a wonderful quote-unquote,"first date question,"
00:20:50.717 --> 00:20:50.957
Oh,
00:20:51.092 --> 00:20:51.271
right?
00:20:51.652 --> 00:20:59.152
When you have somebody who's committed to this conversation already, I think it's not the best first question, but if you...
00:20:59.551 --> 00:21:02.682
three or four questions deep, it can come out, right?
00:21:02.815 --> 00:21:03.075
see.
00:21:03.122 --> 00:21:04.711
And I would phrase it a little differently
00:21:04.904 --> 00:21:07.974
ask how the weather is, you ask how, what's your job.
00:21:08.214 --> 00:21:13.944
There's a little lull in the conversation, that's when I can bust out,"Hey, trivia question for you."
00:21:14.574 --> 00:21:17.074
No I actually think you don't even have to go that deep.
00:21:17.314 --> 00:21:18.364
You asked the right thing, right?
00:21:18.594 --> 00:21:22.962
How's your job is one of those basic I think it can be a small talk question.
00:21:23.343 --> 00:21:27.603
Then you can throw the complative, cont- contemplative hat on and be like,
00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:28.009
yeah
00:21:28.153 --> 00:21:31.502
would you prefer an overconfident or an underconfident boss," right?
00:21:31.788 --> 00:21:32.157
I see.
00:21:32.157 --> 00:21:32.357
It's a
00:21:32.373 --> 00:21:34.813
Then you build out the conversation, right?
00:21:34.887 --> 00:21:35.468
I see.
00:21:35.667 --> 00:21:36.048
Okay.
00:21:36.452 --> 00:21:36.833
Yeah.
00:21:36.887 --> 00:21:38.897
I will eventually build this script out.
00:21:38.948 --> 00:21:41.337
you're gonna create your AI that perfectly
00:21:41.405 --> 00:21:45.846
if anything, I'm gonna be the perfect, like, conversationalist at parties.
00:21:46.236 --> 00:21:51.645
I might not have a lot of friends, but you-- everyone will want to invite me to a party.
00:21:52.769 --> 00:21:55.609
I tell Jesse guy, he asks the most bizarre questions
00:21:56.258 --> 00:21:59.038
He's so weird, but the questions are so good.
00:22:00.038 --> 00:22:02.178
Hey that's, that's a choice.
00:22:02.313 --> 00:22:03.633
not a bad place to be in,
00:22:03.722 --> 00:22:03.803
yeah.
00:22:03.919 --> 00:22:04.179
know.
00:22:04.202 --> 00:22:05.353
You're getting invited to parties.
00:22:05.679 --> 00:22:06.199
Yeah.
00:22:06.272 --> 00:22:06.623
Exactly.
00:22:08.063 --> 00:22:08.383
You.
00:22:08.608 --> 00:22:11.499
that note, I think we should probably end this podcast.
00:22:12.499 --> 00:22:13.548
I've learned a lot about you, Jesse
00:22:14.548 --> 00:22:14.909
yeah.
00:22:15.778 --> 00:22:17.308
I know so much about you too.
00:22:18.308 --> 00:22:19.148
You have a good night
00:22:19.598 --> 00:22:23.278
Hope you have a underconfident day
00:22:23.512 --> 00:22:24.173
Oh, I ended it.
00:22:25.173 --> 00:22:25.180
I
00:00:12.750 --> 00:00:16.589
Welcome back listeners, and welcome back Josh.
00:00:16.945 --> 00:00:17.687
Hey, Jesse.
00:00:17.966 --> 00:00:19.885
It's, it feels like it's been a while.
00:00:19.937 --> 00:00:22.137
I, I think it's been a couple
00:00:22.384 --> 00:00:26.503
I don't know if this is gonna be the next episode we post, but we did miss a week posting.
00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:27.317
Oof.
00:00:27.333 --> 00:00:34.653
mostly because, I think we actually have a few episodes recorded, but I was just too lazy to edit them.
00:00:34.783 --> 00:00:37.614
So I might just edit this one and post it after we're done, but
00:00:37.905 --> 00:00:39.765
Fair, fair Then it'll make a lot of sense.
00:00:39.795 --> 00:00:42.575
People are like,"Oh, where were they?" They just had this episode in the middle
00:00:43.012 --> 00:00:43.231
Yeah.
00:00:43.271 --> 00:00:44.111
We got busy.
00:00:44.161 --> 00:00:50.801
I went to a concert and then, not to say too much about your personal life, but your personal life definitely got busy.
00:00:51.112 --> 00:00:51.493
Yes.
00:00:51.661 --> 00:00:52.072
So
00:00:52.273 --> 00:00:58.523
Yeah, it's been a busy couple of months and work also a lot of stuff that I have to take over, so
00:00:59.015 --> 00:00:59.286
Oh,
00:00:59.643 --> 00:01:00.143
that's fun.
00:01:00.456 --> 00:01:01.845
That's good, right?
00:01:02.243 --> 00:01:02.643
yeah.
00:01:02.652 --> 00:01:09.371
I'm not getting paid to take it over I think sometimes when you're put in charge of like different things, right?
00:01:09.402 --> 00:01:10.453
This is temporary, right?
00:01:10.462 --> 00:01:13.263
Somebody's out, so I'm taking over their responsibilities,
00:01:13.289 --> 00:01:13.990
Oh,
00:01:14.052 --> 00:01:17.162
and it gives you the option to do something new, right?
00:01:17.522 --> 00:01:21.533
If this thing isn't working and I'm the person responsible for it let's shake it up.
00:01:21.602 --> 00:01:25.462
What's funny is we just posted an episo- we just posted an episode about that.
00:01:25.722 --> 00:01:32.513
I don't know if you remember, but we had talked about like vacation, and you were like you should take vacation."
00:01:34.003 --> 00:01:34.343
Yeah.
00:01:34.692 --> 00:01:35.022
Yep.
00:01:35.183 --> 00:01:35.492
funny.
00:01:35.643 --> 00:01:35.972
Yep.
00:01:36.332 --> 00:01:37.063
Good callback.
00:01:37.233 --> 00:01:44.173
and I honestly think when they when they come back, I'm like,"Hey, by the way, here's all the things that were different and you decide what you like and what you don't like."
00:01:44.427 --> 00:01:50.727
Here's the things you were supposed to document and you didn't, so I had to pull my hair out figuring it out.
00:01:50.867 --> 00:01:51.447
Thanks.
00:01:52.346 --> 00:01:52.496
it's
00:01:52.584 --> 00:01:53.004
you know
00:01:53.147 --> 00:01:53.397
now.
00:01:54.396 --> 00:01:54.885
Exactly.
00:01:54.885 --> 00:01:55.506
Exactly.
00:01:55.555 --> 00:01:55.865
Oh, God.
00:01:56.822 --> 00:01:58.072
this will make sense.
00:01:58.072 --> 00:01:59.683
It's a segue into our episode.
00:01:59.912 --> 00:02:04.132
But I do have to say posted an episode about me making friends, right?
00:02:04.132 --> 00:02:05.912
We came up with a couple different ideas.
00:02:06.162 --> 00:02:07.843
I've been implementing them.
00:02:08.456 --> 00:02:09.175
I've been trying.
00:02:09.247 --> 00:02:09.377
oh.
00:02:09.935 --> 00:02:10.745
So I think
00:02:10.747 --> 00:02:10.757
Oh
00:02:10.915 --> 00:02:23.725
of the things that resonated with me in our last episode that you talked about was, essentially how I hate small talk, but you're like,"Small talk's a gateway into big talk." And I still hate small talk, don't get me wrong.
00:02:23.735 --> 00:02:36.876
But I have done is I've figured out things that can be considered small talk that are questions that least I would find interesting what the answer is.
00:02:37.598 --> 00:02:42.168
It's really hard to segue into these types of questions, And the listeners will know what this...
00:02:42.198 --> 00:02:45.557
'Cause one of the questions is the question I proposed to you about this episode.
00:02:46.927 --> 00:02:47.978
but I did it, right?
00:02:48.027 --> 00:02:56.268
I actually just went to a concert, and while I was at the concert it was a Good Charlotte and I forgot who was headlining.
00:02:56.858 --> 00:03:00.967
Good Charlotte was co-headlining with Good Charlotte, but it was some death metal band.
00:03:02.057 --> 00:03:05.627
Good Charlotte being, like, a punk band, and then a death metal band.
00:03:05.888 --> 00:03:12.497
Obviously people there, there was a very small intersection of people who were s- similar or there for both of them.
00:03:12.497 --> 00:03:13.777
It was, like, one or the other.
00:03:14.008 --> 00:03:32.198
It was really good for me to walk around the concert and just ask"Oh, who are you here for?" And I would be honest, I knew the answer for most of them because they either had Good Charlotte punk attire on, or they had very specific death metal, attire on, but anyways, it worked.
00:03:32.217 --> 00:03:39.508
I actually, I met I met someone who actually claimed that they were a backup bassist for the death metal band.
00:03:40.307 --> 00:03:41.467
And I don't actually
00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:41.870
Huh?
00:03:41.927 --> 00:03:53.978
it was true or not, but I literally found out because I was just walking around and asking people this question, and I asked him, he's I'm actually here for them." That's hilarious.
00:03:54.978 --> 00:03:56.057
So it was...
00:03:56.068 --> 00:03:57.348
It, y- so you were right?
00:03:57.737 --> 00:04:12.198
None of the talks transitioned much because mostly everybody was like,"Stop asking me w- questions, you weirdo." The bassist, I, me and him talked for a little bit, and he told me how he drove down from Maine, which was a really far drive to come be a backup bassist.
00:04:12.207 --> 00:04:25.418
And we didn't get to talk too much because I had to get back to the seats but the conversation would've gone on for a little bit longer, and I would've never met this interesting guy who may or may not have been lying to me while I was at the concert.
00:04:25.467 --> 00:04:31.307
Kudos to your your tip about making big talk small, or small talk big talk.
00:04:31.358 --> 00:04:31.947
It worked.
00:04:32.048 --> 00:04:32.567
It did work
00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:38.680
I will say there is a little bit of reading the room,'cause sometimes it's y- figuring out the right time to even make the small talk, right?
00:04:39.569 --> 00:04:40.029
You're right
00:04:41.098 --> 00:04:46.879
the sort of classic example is could you start a conversation with somebody in the next stall in the bathroom?
00:04:46.978 --> 00:04:47.516
Sure, you could.
00:04:47.516 --> 00:04:47.858
But most people don't want to, right?
00:04:47.858 --> 00:04:48.149
Most people, that's their private time,
00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:49.509
so let me hear your thoughts.
00:04:49.509 --> 00:04:50.889
One ply or two ply?
00:04:51.889 --> 00:04:54.120
Red ply, blue ply.
00:04:54.220 --> 00:04:54.480
No.
00:04:55.303 --> 00:04:58.384
So you're saying I shouldn't start our conversation like that?
00:04:59.209 --> 00:05:10.529
I would say that to build up the knowledge of when and when not to start a conversation, you need to have stumbled into some bad conversations.
00:05:11.529 --> 00:05:14.180
I feel like you don't get the skill from reading about it.
00:05:14.209 --> 00:05:17.430
You get the skill from just being there and messing around.
00:05:18.209 --> 00:05:22.040
Yeah, no, there was probably some people I asked the question to I probably shouldn't.
00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:24.870
They were s- very specifically on their phones.
00:05:24.899 --> 00:05:27.790
They basically had F-U written on their foreheads, and
00:05:27.810 --> 00:05:28.160
Yeah.
00:05:28.625 --> 00:05:30.136
as, I was like,"You know what?
00:05:30.136 --> 00:05:32.286
Josh would a- would ask this person a question."
00:05:33.767 --> 00:05:35.487
I'm definitely on the lookout, right?
00:05:35.538 --> 00:05:38.507
I think I have a somewhat of filter on, right?
00:05:38.747 --> 00:05:39.577
But I still...
00:05:39.858 --> 00:05:41.867
It's never like there's nobody, right?
00:05:42.302 --> 00:05:42.591
Yeah.
00:05:42.997 --> 00:05:43.338
so
00:05:44.242 --> 00:05:44.581
Okay,
00:05:44.641 --> 00:05:45.331
was your question?
00:05:45.372 --> 00:05:46.630
You had a question you wanted to Ask the people
00:05:46.850 --> 00:05:50.750
of the, again, like my thought process was you ask people random questions.
00:05:50.750 --> 00:05:55.461
So I've been testing it on my wife, and one of the questions actually did spark a good conversation.
00:05:55.461 --> 00:06:04.190
So my question to you is, would you rather have, be overconfident, right?
00:06:04.610 --> 00:06:07.670
Like misguided confidence, like you're so confident.
00:06:08.411 --> 00:06:18.761
Or would you rather be n- have very little confidence in yourself, like to the point where you second-guess yourself all the time?
00:06:19.761 --> 00:06:27.711
I, and I ask this for not only from your point of view, so for yourself, but also from a coworker perspective.
00:06:27.730 --> 00:06:37.021
Would you rather work with a coworker who has misguided overconfidence or so little confidence in themselves you know, they're not really sure what to do?
00:06:37.629 --> 00:06:40.468
So when I hear this question, I think of a couple things.
00:06:40.468 --> 00:06:48.108
First of all, the idea of like over or under confidence means that the confidence doesn't match your ability, right?
00:06:48.499 --> 00:06:48.889
Yeah,
00:06:48.889 --> 00:06:50.178
it's not overconfidence, right?
00:06:50.209 --> 00:06:55.209
Let's say you're really good at something and you're confident that you're good at it, that's not overconfidence.
00:06:55.348 --> 00:06:57.218
You're just good at that thing.
00:06:57.485 --> 00:06:57.805
Yeah.
00:06:57.858 --> 00:06:58.689
It's matching,
00:06:59.225 --> 00:06:59.584
Yeah
00:07:00.584 --> 00:07:00.615
right?
00:07:00.615 --> 00:07:03.714
So overconfidence is saying,"Hey, I'm way better at this thing than I think I am."
00:07:04.201 --> 00:07:04.601
Yeah
00:07:04.865 --> 00:07:12.125
And un- under confidence is I'm--"I don't think I'm very good at this thing, even though I'm actually quite good at it," right?
00:07:12.394 --> 00:07:12.624
Yeah,
00:07:12.624 --> 00:07:23.963
I think for me, myself, I think personally being overconfident I think is gonna put me into situations that will test my ability
00:07:24.446 --> 00:07:24.786
Yeah
00:07:24.913 --> 00:07:27.494
more than being under confident, right?
00:07:27.574 --> 00:07:32.384
I know a lot of developers feel that sort of imposter syndrome, right?
00:07:32.622 --> 00:07:33.002
Yeah.
00:07:33.053 --> 00:07:35.394
think, I can't do anything," right?
00:07:35.788 --> 00:07:37.747
They do have some level of under confidence.
00:07:37.747 --> 00:07:40.767
But if you think,"Oh, no I'm better than this," right?
00:07:40.887 --> 00:07:44.177
You can-- you'll push yourself in a different direction, I think.
00:07:45.387 --> 00:07:45.718
I don't know.
00:07:45.718 --> 00:07:46.728
That's my rough take.
00:07:46.728 --> 00:07:58.942
So for me to start that first part of the question, I would rather be overconfident because I think it's gonna push me into places that's gonna develop my skills Think that's a good place to be.
00:07:59.509 --> 00:08:01.838
I'm not saying I am overconfident, but I think of
00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:02.209
yeah.
00:08:02.358 --> 00:08:03.119
two extremes,
00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:03.870
Yeah
00:08:04.009 --> 00:08:06.759
that's the one I would rather land in.
00:08:07.115 --> 00:08:07.555
Yeah.
00:08:08.528 --> 00:08:09.238
what's your take?
00:08:09.675 --> 00:08:15.615
So for me, I would rather be less confident, right?
00:08:15.995 --> 00:08:18.105
And here's the, and here's my take on it.
00:08:18.815 --> 00:08:43.316
A- so y- you were saying is I definitely agree with you, but my issue is with people who are overconfident is they also tend to have a tendency to not listen to peers they are wrong, And for me personally, I would hate it I stuck to my guns to something and I'm like,"No, you're wrong.
00:08:43.405 --> 00:08:44.375
I'm right.
00:08:44.435 --> 00:08:48.895
We're doing it this way," and then have it completely blow up in my face.
00:08:49.235 --> 00:08:50.015
And I would...
00:08:50.076 --> 00:09:13.405
if I had the choice to have that situation hap- to happen to me, whether one situation it's like it blew up in my face versus we didn't go with the way I wanted to and the way I figured it was gonna happen did happen in a negative way, I wouldn't say I told you but at least I could help recover from those situations, right?
00:09:14.405 --> 00:09:21.135
I'm so afraid of being the person who never listens to guidance, right?
00:09:21.596 --> 00:09:30.216
And know when to listen to people and when not to listen to them, that I would rather err on the side of caution and always listen to people.
00:09:30.706 --> 00:09:36.806
And i- if they're passionate about it, always take their side over going with my direction,
00:09:36.855 --> 00:09:41.265
I actually think, so there's a couple funny things that came to me during this.
00:09:41.635 --> 00:09:46.895
First of all is that I think I, I'm gonna backpedal a bit on what I said.
00:09:46.905 --> 00:09:47.755
I think that if you're overconfident,
00:09:47.802 --> 00:09:48.111
Oh.
00:09:49.096 --> 00:09:54.105
you're gonna push yourself into situations that, where you have to develop the skills, right?
00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:54.580
yeah
00:09:54.865 --> 00:10:01.466
But you're right that maybe if you're overconfident, you actually don't even think that you need to improve,
00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:02.159
Yeah.
00:10:02.635 --> 00:10:05.725
Whereas in somebody who's underconfident, they might say,"You know what?
00:10:05.725 --> 00:10:07.316
I need to be continuously learning.
00:10:07.395 --> 00:10:09.306
I need to make sure that I'm better," right?
00:10:09.466 --> 00:10:16.395
They might already be amazing, but by being underconfident they're thinking I need to be even better than I am," right?
00:10:16.445 --> 00:10:16.565
ja
00:10:16.966 --> 00:10:25.336
And to that extent I think either way you can put yourself in sort of a paralysis where you're saying,"I can't do anything.
00:10:25.355 --> 00:10:27.265
I'm underconfident," right?
00:10:27.365 --> 00:10:28.375
Or,"I'm overconfident.
00:10:28.375 --> 00:10:34.086
I don't d- need to do anything." It's really hard to s- say that one is definitively better than the other.
00:10:35.255 --> 00:10:48.686
But the other thing that made me think of was I'm probably indexing on overconfidence as the ideal thing because I think myself, I am underconfident,
00:10:49.385 --> 00:10:49.696
yeah.
00:10:49.798 --> 00:10:50.038
I
00:10:50.083 --> 00:10:54.254
that's so funny you say that because I feel like I'm the opposite.
00:10:54.283 --> 00:10:56.514
I'm like overconfident too much.
00:10:56.836 --> 00:11:02.246
So it's like we-- It's almost like we have the same exact problem, but from different perspectives.
00:11:02.677 --> 00:11:03.011
yeah.
00:11:03.011 --> 00:11:08.740
Like I'm under confident and I wish I were over confident, And you're over confident and you wish you were under confident.
00:11:08.850 --> 00:11:12.750
And like really what it is w- we both really just wanna meet in the middle.
00:11:12.750 --> 00:11:17.480
We wanna have that perfect level of confidence where you appropriately know exactly how,
00:11:18.174 --> 00:11:18.504
Yeah.
00:11:18.730 --> 00:11:19.139
skilled you are
00:11:19.375 --> 00:11:20.534
it's hard too, right?
00:11:20.534 --> 00:11:23.054
Because there, no matter what...
00:11:23.065 --> 00:11:25.715
'Cause, this is all based off of arguments, right?
00:11:26.075 --> 00:11:28.034
Or making a decision.
00:11:28.774 --> 00:11:37.427
And I Matter what you do, if you make decision, if you're a type of person that's in a role that's makes decisions, you will make bad decisions.
00:11:38.039 --> 00:11:39.429
Perfect, right?
00:11:39.429 --> 00:11:40.590
And you have to accept that.
00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:51.690
And if you accept it, and you just have to learn, exactly to your point, as long as you learn from your mistakes, I don't think it matters what type of person you are, as you're learning from them and growing from them.
00:11:51.690 --> 00:11:57.779
And if you're under-confident, you gain confidence, and if you're over-confident, maybe you should back down a little bit.
00:11:58.149 --> 00:12:06.080
As long as, as you are that type of person, you con- constantly are growing and shaping and juggling that perfect line, I think it's fine.
00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:12.460
But it, I actually think what's really interesting about this question is you find out who people are.
00:12:12.860 --> 00:12:15.210
I think that's what I'm finding out from this, right?
00:12:15.789 --> 00:12:19.470
How you answer that question is who you are at your job.
00:12:20.470 --> 00:12:20.674
Yeah.
00:12:20.674 --> 00:12:26.205
I wonder though, I wonder if there's somebody who's actually overconfident who thinks that they're underconfident, right?
00:12:26.345 --> 00:12:30.625
'Cause a lot of this is also it's a perception, right?
00:12:30.894 --> 00:12:38.705
I think I'm underconfident for my abilities, but it's very possible that I am actually overconfident.
00:12:38.924 --> 00:12:44.455
I think, for instance, that you are appropriately overconfident because I think you're very skilled.
00:12:45.284 --> 00:12:54.384
I think you have so much knowledge that it's appropriate to be like on a little bit of a tower.
00:12:54.865 --> 00:12:56.945
Yeah, maybe you're a little bit above that, but
00:12:57.004 --> 00:13:03.774
yeah, there's definitely some engineers I think you talk to that I work with that are probably like,"No, that guy's a jerk."
00:13:04.774 --> 00:13:05.414
Yes.
00:13:05.445 --> 00:13:11.225
Yes I am familiar with not only that type, but that specific-- those specific people.
00:13:11.445 --> 00:13:16.754
With, with that said going into the other part of the question, if you will, if you'll let me.
00:13:17.924 --> 00:13:18.575
Yes, please
00:13:18.596 --> 00:13:25.796
so the other part of the question was, would you rather have a coworker or a manager who was overconfident or underconfident?
00:13:26.796 --> 00:13:32.515
This is where it makes me think about the question, my love of overconfidence, right?
00:13:32.905 --> 00:13:38.365
Because I will go, I'll go back and forth here, right?
00:13:38.365 --> 00:13:42.725
And I think about the best managers I've had or the worst managers I've had, right?
00:13:43.404 --> 00:13:51.404
One of the general traits that I think exists in a good manager is, first of all, believing in the team, right?
00:13:51.528 --> 00:13:51.879
Yeah.
00:13:51.965 --> 00:13:57.294
I think having overconfidence in the team is probably a good thing, right?
00:13:57.394 --> 00:13:59.995
"My team is amazing," right?
00:14:00.595 --> 00:14:03.054
That, that kind of energy, right?
00:14:03.054 --> 00:14:06.075
If you think of a manager as kind of a cheerleader, right?
00:14:06.504 --> 00:14:13.154
They might not have the best team, but if they say,"I have the best team," sometimes people will rise to that occasion, right?
00:14:13.259 --> 00:14:13.698
Yeah
00:14:13.754 --> 00:14:16.825
A manager who's overconfident in their team I think is really good.
00:14:17.274 --> 00:14:25.965
A manager that's overconfident in themselves can definitely get a team into some troubled waters.
00:14:26.293 --> 00:14:26.863
Yeah.
00:14:27.014 --> 00:14:27.684
Interesting.
00:14:27.715 --> 00:14:40.195
That's you're almost adding a, a, another dimension to the question, Because you're say- you're saying they're overconfident in their selves versus overconfident in the team.
00:14:40.634 --> 00:14:43.034
And th- in that perspective, I'd agree with you.
00:14:43.034 --> 00:14:55.585
I would rather have a pr- manager who's overconfident in the team and not overconfident in himself, again as a manager, you want him h- at least have some thoughts about team.
00:14:56.375 --> 00:15:11.245
I would rather him think a team is m- more capable and having them live up to that expectation than to think,"Oh, that team is so incapable, I have to stand up for them." A- because I'm the you're almost adding an extra dimension, which
00:15:11.303 --> 00:15:12.634
And maybe I've only had...
00:15:12.644 --> 00:15:14.793
I've mostly had good managers, right?
00:15:15.024 --> 00:15:19.563
I actually really can't think of any manager that I was like,"Oh, that was a bad manager," right?
00:15:19.823 --> 00:15:23.913
It's just like I've had some really good managers and I've had some good managers, right?
00:15:24.249 --> 00:15:24.619
Yeah.
00:15:24.803 --> 00:15:34.764
And in general, like one of the things that I really appreciate in leadership, and I know we've talked about this, leadership and management are not actually the same thing,
00:15:35.153 --> 00:15:35.572
Yeah.
00:15:35.972 --> 00:15:36.633
Yeah, exactly.
00:15:36.712 --> 00:15:47.302
some of the people who are really good managers and really good leaders I feel like have that confidence to say,"Hey, we're heading on a path," right?
00:15:47.302 --> 00:15:50.932
Now, it's good to have the humility to say,"Maybe that was the wrong path.
00:15:51.232 --> 00:15:59.873
Maybe I made a mistake," but the leaders that I have the least respect for are the ones that are I don't know.
00:15:59.873 --> 00:16:04.743
Yeah, I know we need to either choose A or B, but why not both?""Why don't we just
00:16:04.744 --> 00:16:08.744
Yeah.
00:16:09.212 --> 00:16:14.913
like I, I appreciate managers and leaders who say,"We're committing to this," right?
00:16:15.673 --> 00:16:18.663
Over the ones that say,"Hey, you know what?
00:16:18.832 --> 00:16:21.482
Like I don't really know what we, we should do here.
00:16:21.658 --> 00:16:22.158
Yeah.
00:16:22.243 --> 00:16:23.623
don't we just do everything,"
00:16:23.859 --> 00:16:24.359
Yeah.
00:16:24.592 --> 00:16:25.873
That's an interesting take too.
00:16:25.873 --> 00:16:41.192
It's like you would rather have someone be confidently wrong because at least they pick a direction over someone who's so unconfident that they can't even physically make a direction, so the team is just running in 10 million, you
00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:41.460
Yeah.
00:16:41.870 --> 00:16:42.090
Yeah.
00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:43.320
Which I've seen before.
00:16:43.419 --> 00:16:45.429
I've definitely seen that, right?
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:49.279
And I that's one of my least favorite things, working for a manager
00:16:49.400 --> 00:16:50.061
interesting.
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:51.500
who doesn't know where they're going,
00:16:51.690 --> 00:16:51.980
yeah.
00:16:52.118 --> 00:16:56.977
It's like I'd rather have someone who's overconfidence as my manager, right?
00:16:57.028 --> 00:17:07.967
Overconfidence in the team, but also overconfident in his decisiveness to choose a direction as long as he listens to peers, right?
00:17:07.967 --> 00:17:17.008
Because I would be okay with a manager who chooses the wrong direction as long as it leads us to the ultimate end goal.
00:17:17.288 --> 00:17:32.958
Because, obviously as you head in the wrong direction, if are able to course correct along your way, heading in the wrong direction can ultimately lead you in the right direction over, like you said, not heading in any direction and just chaotically poking in all directions.
00:17:33.188 --> 00:17:35.488
You're never gonna go anywhere, know?
00:17:36.488 --> 00:17:42.387
Yeah, chaotically poking in all directions is definitely my least favorite, team to be working in.
00:17:42.438 --> 00:17:44.137
And as much as like that can be some...
00:17:44.208 --> 00:17:50.067
That can be fun having like the true experiments, it's just like when your experiments don't lead anywhere,
00:17:50.284 --> 00:17:50.733
Yeah.
00:17:50.877 --> 00:17:54.228
when they're just like jumping into the darkness,
00:17:54.549 --> 00:17:54.930
Yeah
00:17:55.917 --> 00:17:56.498
yeah.
00:17:56.827 --> 00:18:07.998
and I think that's a po- an important lesson for our listeners and for us is like, sometimes it's better to head in the wrong direction as long as you have a strong direction, right?
00:18:08.038 --> 00:18:13.117
And you're okay with course correcting once you find out it's the bad direction.
00:18:14.617 --> 00:18:21.028
I would argue more times than not, it's better to head in the wrong direction than to not be heading in any direction.
00:18:21.923 --> 00:18:22.383
Yeah.
00:18:22.502 --> 00:18:22.893
Yeah.
00:18:22.942 --> 00:18:26.053
And obviously there's a bunch of caveats here, right?
00:18:26.375 --> 00:18:26.915
of course.
00:18:27.212 --> 00:18:37.813
And, nothing is quite black and white, but I think that the, the ability to go and recognize when you have made a mistake, right?
00:18:37.873 --> 00:18:44.633
That is often the signature of overconfidence, is also the belief that even when you make mistakes that,"No, this is right."
00:18:44.852 --> 00:18:45.642
Exactly.
00:18:46.142 --> 00:18:46.902
Exactly
00:18:46.992 --> 00:18:51.452
so obviously both overconfidence and underconfidence are actually
00:18:51.503 --> 00:18:51.884
Yeah.
00:18:52.863 --> 00:18:53.222
right?
00:18:53.743 --> 00:18:54.054
Yeah.
00:18:54.492 --> 00:18:54.603
You
00:18:54.913 --> 00:18:55.413
actually
00:18:55.643 --> 00:19:07.333
Want somebody who's gonna push, but then also at the right time, which is very hard to figure out, but at the right time they're gonna say,"Let's review what we've done and if we're doing it the right way."
00:19:07.653 --> 00:19:10.413
What's funny is we're circling back to what you said.
00:19:11.134 --> 00:19:18.933
Because the first thing you said about yourself is you'd rather it be overconfident because then at least you can learn from your mistakes, right?
00:19:19.086 --> 00:19:19.277
Oh,
00:19:19.304 --> 00:19:19.544
So
00:19:19.544 --> 00:19:19.564
no, no
00:19:19.721 --> 00:19:22.571
was, that wa- that was the first thing you said, like literally
00:19:22.965 --> 00:19:23.165
Overconfidence...
00:19:23.215 --> 00:19:24.986
Hold on don't totally misquote me.
00:19:25.107 --> 00:19:25.798
Oh, sorry
00:19:26.195 --> 00:19:28.955
Overconfidence pushes you to new situations,
00:19:29.248 --> 00:19:29.587
Yeah.
00:19:29.627 --> 00:19:29.827
Yeah,
00:19:30.016 --> 00:19:30.195
right?
00:19:30.605 --> 00:19:32.415
To go in totally new directions.
00:19:32.698 --> 00:19:33.008
Yeah
00:19:33.066 --> 00:19:38.546
But I- underconfidence is actually where you might go and learn from those directions
00:19:38.981 --> 00:19:39.372
I don't know.
00:19:39.372 --> 00:19:46.461
I think you can be overconfident in heading in a direction, then be, what do you call it?
00:19:46.461 --> 00:19:47.571
Humble enough
00:19:47.834 --> 00:19:48.243
Yeah
00:19:48.402 --> 00:19:53.667
know when you've chosen the wrong direction and Afterwards,
00:19:53.884 --> 00:19:54.055
Yeah.
00:19:54.345 --> 00:19:55.704
That would be the ideal situation,
00:19:55.738 --> 00:19:56.428
there really is.
00:19:56.515 --> 00:19:56.825
Yeah.
00:19:57.438 --> 00:19:58.107
I like it.
00:19:58.724 --> 00:19:59.954
So I don't know.
00:20:00.255 --> 00:20:04.065
The truth is the examples where and it's like,"Oh, would you rather fight 100
00:20:04.837 --> 00:20:05.288
I know.
00:20:05.577 --> 00:20:05.867
Yeah.
00:20:05.884 --> 00:20:08.795
duck-sized horses or one horse-sized duck or whatever?"
00:20:09.285 --> 00:20:15.244
Okay, I haven't heard that one, but the ones I hear all the time is"Who would win, 100 men versus one gorilla?"
00:20:15.608 --> 00:20:15.818
Yeah.
00:20:15.868 --> 00:20:21.979
There's questions like that where the, the truth is like these are extremes,
00:20:22.365 --> 00:20:22.775
Yeah
00:20:23.249 --> 00:20:31.028
And I think you can learn something about people in the extremes, but the best situation is to never go quite that far in those directions,
00:20:31.138 --> 00:20:34.278
so circling back to the very beginning of this podcast,
00:20:34.433 --> 00:20:34.864
Yeah
00:20:34.969 --> 00:20:44.818
is this question a small talk question that leads to big talk, or is it maybe too deep of a first question to ask somebody when I walk up to them?
00:20:44.981 --> 00:20:45.872
Here's my gut.
00:20:46.061 --> 00:20:50.241
I would say it's a wonderful quote-unquote,"first date question,"
00:20:50.717 --> 00:20:50.957
Oh,
00:20:51.092 --> 00:20:51.271
right?
00:20:51.652 --> 00:20:59.152
When you have somebody who's committed to this conversation already, I think it's not the best first question, but if you...
00:20:59.551 --> 00:21:02.682
three or four questions deep, it can come out, right?
00:21:02.815 --> 00:21:03.075
see.
00:21:03.122 --> 00:21:04.711
And I would phrase it a little differently
00:21:04.904 --> 00:21:07.974
ask how the weather is, you ask how, what's your job.
00:21:08.214 --> 00:21:13.944
There's a little lull in the conversation, that's when I can bust out,"Hey, trivia question for you."
00:21:14.574 --> 00:21:17.074
No I actually think you don't even have to go that deep.
00:21:17.314 --> 00:21:18.364
You asked the right thing, right?
00:21:18.594 --> 00:21:22.962
How's your job is one of those basic I think it can be a small talk question.
00:21:23.343 --> 00:21:27.603
Then you can throw the complative, cont- contemplative hat on and be like,
00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:28.009
yeah
00:21:28.153 --> 00:21:31.502
would you prefer an overconfident or an underconfident boss," right?
00:21:31.788 --> 00:21:32.157
I see.
00:21:32.157 --> 00:21:32.357
It's a
00:21:32.373 --> 00:21:34.813
Then you build out the conversation, right?
00:21:34.887 --> 00:21:35.468
I see.
00:21:35.667 --> 00:21:36.048
Okay.
00:21:36.452 --> 00:21:36.833
Yeah.
00:21:36.887 --> 00:21:38.897
I will eventually build this script out.
00:21:38.948 --> 00:21:41.337
you're gonna create your AI that perfectly
00:21:41.405 --> 00:21:45.846
if anything, I'm gonna be the perfect, like, conversationalist at parties.
00:21:46.236 --> 00:21:51.645
I might not have a lot of friends, but you-- everyone will want to invite me to a party.
00:21:52.769 --> 00:21:55.609
I tell Jesse guy, he asks the most bizarre questions
00:21:56.258 --> 00:21:59.038
He's so weird, but the questions are so good.
00:22:00.038 --> 00:22:02.178
Hey that's, that's a choice.
00:22:02.313 --> 00:22:03.633
not a bad place to be in,
00:22:03.722 --> 00:22:03.803
yeah.
00:22:03.919 --> 00:22:04.179
know.
00:22:04.202 --> 00:22:05.353
You're getting invited to parties.
00:22:05.679 --> 00:22:06.199
Yeah.
00:22:06.272 --> 00:22:06.623
Exactly.
00:22:08.063 --> 00:22:08.383
You.
00:22:08.608 --> 00:22:11.499
that note, I think we should probably end this podcast.
00:22:12.499 --> 00:22:13.548
I've learned a lot about you, Jesse
00:22:14.548 --> 00:22:14.909
yeah.
00:22:15.778 --> 00:22:17.308
I know so much about you too.
00:22:18.308 --> 00:22:19.148
You have a good night
00:22:19.598 --> 00:22:23.278
Hope you have a underconfident day
00:22:23.512 --> 00:22:24.173
Oh, I ended it.
00:22:25.173 --> 00:22:25.180
I
