EP24 - Beyond Therapy: How Therapeutic Consultants Support Family Healing | Cole & Maureen

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[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, you've reached the voicemail of Hannah Brett with Connect Call.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Just leave a message and I'll get back to you soon as I can.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.
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[SPEAKER_03]: One for more options.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Hannah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I got your name for my therapist that my son's been working with on and off throughout the years.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, reaching out basically because I'm...
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[SPEAKER_00]: I want to get up there more information on next steps for either therapeutic boarding school for my son or treatment, but without a couple treatments stays and I don't think they were not only the right placement, but we just we need somebody to kind of hold our hands through this process and I didn't know who you would recommend, who would be best.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was hearing the
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[SPEAKER_00]: if you could tell me more about a and a look for their hearing from you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is Hannah Brett with another episode of Connect Call, where I often say I do not have a clung-go background, but I do have a PhD for picking up the phones that families and crisis.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I always laugh when I say it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very excited to have my next two guests, two people, you know, I've been in this industry for about 20 years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And moreening coal, I often say to people that I am a connector at hearts, but also a collector of sorts.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And over the past 20 years, I've met a lot of providers, a lot of people as we all have and there's just certain people that you meet and you're just like, oh, they got the good good meaning like they would definitely make a difference in my life or somebody I was referring them to and are just I know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: would really have an effect on someone's life.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So with that being said, this episode, I am very happy to say I've got more in-brenning educational and therapeutic program placement consultant with more than 20 years of experience helping adolescents young adults and their families navigate complex educational therapeutic and life transition challenges.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And we also have someone I've come up with a bit, and I love an adorque.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Cole's, I mean, we just say your last name, Ron.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Isabba?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Zabo.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Zabo.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's Cole Zabo, you guys.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Cole Zabo is a licensed alcohol and drug abuse counselors, certified parent coach and trained ICF ADHD coach.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I need you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He works as a therapeutic consultant with edge of planners, and is the owner of lucid therapeutic services,
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's based in Nashville, Tennessee, and one of my favorite humans.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, you moron, but you're going to do that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You too.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So basically, I really wanted to do this episode today because in my journey, I've done a lot of work without a lessons in young adults.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I remember as a kid, you know, my mom was English and didn't know how to get me into college, and I remember I would go to this woman's office every afternoon for a week when I was looking at schools, her name was.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Colleen McCreary, I think.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, Dary and Connecticut, she was an educational consultant, and she was to help me with my applications, looking at colleges, and just really navigating my family through the process.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And when I got into the work of mental health,
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[SPEAKER_02]: substance use sort of treatment and all the, you know, therapeutic placement at any sort.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I found out that a lot of these educational consultants were either also doing therapeutic placement and or the there wasn't a therapeutic version of the ed consultant.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, and I've worked with a lot of therapeutic consultants over the years and they are so needed, they are so, such a good investment for a family, I really feel, and I really wanted to dive into this episode to explain, you know, when a family needs them, um, what basically you all can do, and you know, um, just answer some questions families are going to have about this investment and their lives and their child's life.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But first, I want to know from both of you, what brought you kind of into this work, Marine?
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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I, I was sort of, I did really well in school as like a kid, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: And then high school hit and like the world sort of fell apart.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I, things got complicated, complex, whatever.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And then I was kind of told like colleges and free.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Schools not really for you.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You're a trouble maker.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You're lazy.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You're all those things that we've all heard, you know, when we now know we were talking about ADHD, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Amen.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't any of that, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So, but I will say there were a few teachers that were like, okay, she learns differently.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to do this differently for her, you know, and actually took time to, like,
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[SPEAKER_03]: present it differently.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And so thanks to them, I was like, all right, I can do this.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I just have to find the right place.
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[SPEAKER_03]: How the school was not it?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I needed to have sort of that, you know, the variety of modalities and experiential and hands-on and all of that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So I remembered that, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Went to college with this, it was a school that was appropriate for me.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And then, and I also had like,
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[SPEAKER_03]: Always was a sport athlete and I always knew that that too was going to be really important so like the the extra curricular stuff was going to keep me book motivated and on track a lot of different ways so right when I was assigning what to do for work or you know college or focusing on you know what what what what path I'm going to take I knew it was like if I can just help.
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[SPEAKER_03]: kids like me find a place and find the people you know they find the environment to top into what they're good at right everybody's got something everybody's got skills so I just said well I'm going to do that I'm going to find a find place as find programs find a path where I can guide guide kids and families because we didn't have that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I love it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You said all that because typically what you will find with everyone I will be eating and viewing on the show and why we do this this work of being I always say is the helpers and the healers is either we have come across a version of us that got us okay and better and found the stuff we needed and or we didn't find somebody like us and we know what was needed and we wanted to be that
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[SPEAKER_01]: You have been an instrumental part of showing me the ways, Hannah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I appreciate you having me on a brand-new Tarship program.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was a kid who needed a therapeutic consultant.
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[SPEAKER_01]: My parents needed a therapeutic consultant.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And this was back in gosh 2008, 2009, which they were around.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But my family just didn't know of these services.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we were kind of throwing darts at a dartboard kind of blindfolded.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we were behind April.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I had a lot of clinical issues that went undiagnosed or unseen, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it was the fault of anybody.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was just we didn't know what we didn't know, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I went through several different treatment stays a lot that I was dictating myself, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: As an adolescent.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then when I finally went to the right place for a long enough time, right, started working on myself, went through the long-term treatment process, I started working and treating myself and started to get connected with, with the marine threatens with, you know, right people that that have been doing this placing adolescents and really,
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[SPEAKER_01]: trying to understand what all was involved.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I didn't end up in the right place until my parents were connected, I don't know if I can name drop on this episode, but can they totally name drop?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Jennifer and Gears.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She, I don't think she's a consultant.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She was just worked in the industry, but she really helped.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Which Jennifer and Gear are we talking about?
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[SPEAKER_02]: The one from the Meadows or... She used to work at the Meadows.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a good friend of mine.
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[SPEAKER_02]: She's definitely an O.J.
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[SPEAKER_02]: She knows what she's talking about.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, I mean, and I've always had that clinical mind.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to be like the people who helped me when I was first getting started.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's where I started to develop that clinical lens.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, got my laid-out, got my other certifications, and I knew where to the game of therapeutic consulting, actually doing it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I've been doing it for roughly about a year, but it's in my wheelhouse.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's natural for me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I wanted you both on just and from different points of view, different experience time.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And also I love that Cole you said that from the clinical lens, I haven't heard that, and I really like that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Maureen, I can ask you the first question.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Just to, let's let's put it out there.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what is a therapeutic consultant?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And what role do they typically
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so a therapeutic consultant is somebody that's going to help this help the family client and family find the most appropriate path going forward right whatever they've been doing might not have been working or is not working to the optimal level they'd like to see happen right.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I would say in the simplest term, it's matchmaker, you know, talked about connection early on.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I like think that's one of my best skills is like, okay, who should I connect this client with not just the client, but their family, whatever, what's, you know, what's happening.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So finding the right fit, right, do they need to do they need a treatment program, right, are this struggling with substance use disorder on right.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Do they have other mental health issues going on?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Do they need a residential level of care?
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[SPEAKER_03]: What have we tried already?
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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it used to be in the old days.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I've been doing this 23, 24 years now.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like in the old days, it was like, you get shipped off first problem, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Some, you get, you,
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_03]: People are sending their kids, kids away.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a lot more opportunity and options to do at home for a while and see how that works because the ultimate goal is to keep the unit together for as long as you can, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: The system, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, our our job is to look at all the information, I say, we're data minors, we gather as much data as possible, whether that's through testing and evaluation interviews with the, you know, the current care team.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Psychiatrist psychologists, the client themselves obviously family interviews and you get all that information and you sit through it all and after looking at all of that talking to the whole team, then you can make your recommendations.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I often have, you know, we've got our planet B and C, like we always want to be planning for or stepping down or stepping up or whatever that is, because these families have been in crisis for so long or a lot of them have that, you know, flying by the sea of the plants is not the way to go.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So being as informed and gathering as much data as possible, I think it's what what what our goal is.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The role I have played in this working for all these programs over the years and being on the other end of the phone, it is more common than not that I will especially with adolescents and young adults, you will hear this exhaustion and a family's voice, you know that I'm speaking to and they're like this is the umpteenth program.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And throughout that whole process, I'll say, okay, you know, before we even try to do another placement, before we even make a step forward, I really want to pass you on to the experts in really gathering, you know, because I think I want you to finish finish what you're saying, and then I want to say what I want to say, which is you go first, but then I was going to.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think I think it's important part of the therapeutic consulting.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And this is, and we can talk, and we may, maybe, are talking later about the difference between therapeutic and educational.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's a fine line.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's often just interwoven and all of that, of course.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But I think too.
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[SPEAKER_03]: What we should be doing therapeutically and mention this and why I do this work is what do these kids like to do like what are their interests and I don't care if it's a 12 year old or a 25 year old like we've got a still nurture that because we're either talking about education or we're talking about therapy or we're talking about both and what I think is lost is
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[SPEAKER_03]: what do they like to do?
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[SPEAKER_03]: Because that's where they're going to find their people, they're tried, they're interest, they're motivation, they're all of those things.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So and I'm glad to see that a lot of programs are adding more of those services because public schools and other schools are pulling those out.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that that's another really important part.
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[SPEAKER_03]: even though that doesn't sound therapeutic as an experiential therapist, which is my training, I think it's just as important as whatever that DSM 5 said.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, or no, your IT is saying, you know, 1,000 percent.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I've always said this, you know, the more we can take away those white walls and exit finds and not make this also, if they are in a therapeutic boarding school or if they're in treatment, that it doesn't feel like, you know,
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[SPEAKER_02]: that it feels like it doesn't feel like a therapeutic boarding school and it doesn't feel like treatment.
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[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of it is, you know, is what we call the peanut butter on the pill and also finding out who these kids are, so they want to buy into all of this, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And be a part of the process and be around people like them suck kids like themselves.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what I was saying before what is so
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[SPEAKER_02]: My struggle or obstacle I sometimes find, I found with families on the phone is, you know, I do this work because it is an honor and a privilege to give a family an opportunity to heal.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's not about, you know, working for a program, what insurance do you have?
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've got some dead empty, even though you might not be a fit, let's just put you in.
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[SPEAKER_02]: finding the right place for the right family for the right kid.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what and what families also need to recognize is and I tell them this is this is a major investment.
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[SPEAKER_02]: financially, emotionally.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like if everyone can just slow down the train and take the time to really do their due diligence and also recognize, you know, like, if I have an adolescent, which is complex mental health, this, that me, other, I'm not even going to.
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[SPEAKER_02]: tell them, oh, there's a, that's a good adolescent program, you know what I mean?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to send them to Cole or you and say, hey, do me a favor, can you work with this family?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Tell, find out even what testing is needed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Where to go for the testing before we even look to see if it's boarding school or or treatment.
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[SPEAKER_02]: All right, Cole.
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[SPEAKER_02]: next question.
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[SPEAKER_02]: At what point do you think a family would benefit from us like therapeutic consultant and what are some signs that one could, you know, what are some, what are some good things to identify with a family when they're with their kids that they're like, ah, I really need somebody here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, yeah, for sure.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And to piggyback, just to address that last thing that you said, Hannah, the Hannah Brett mentorship program.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think every family that you've called me and like said, like, this person needs a consultant.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They've been so educated already on kind of what we do.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So that warm handoff is super important because you know,
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[SPEAKER_01]: people don't know what we do.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: The general public, it's kind of a elusive kind of service that we've provided.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of times when I talk to families to your question,
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost they've waited too long and it's not their fault because there's there's denial right there's they don't want to look at it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's there's hope that this is going to get better.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They string along you know good few days or few weeks and then the other shoe drops you know so.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Cole, I just want to see one of them as I'm dealing with this right now with a family, you know, with all due respect, there's a lot of good treatment out there and good providers and there's also a lot of people where I'm just like can really take a family, take advantage of a family, you know, and especially with kids will see a lot of like.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, the kid coach or this thing are like, you know, and all these different like people that come into a family's life or they, if they don't fully understand this piece, they're just going to be like, oh, it's just another, it's another thing, but what you guys do to like for families is so pivotal, like, I believe, you know, your family or kid can have a therapist and they could maybe place a little bit, but what you are doing and the handholding and the navigating is such an important piece of.
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[SPEAKER_02]: ones healing, typically with them at less than a young adult.
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[SPEAKER_01]: No, so like when, when do they need?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, there's several factors, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, everybody's unique, they're individuals, but like, I see consistently right, like, academic breakdown, school reshusal, and that could be from a myriad of things, um, substance use of course.
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[SPEAKER_01]: problematic sexual behaviors, a lot of stuff online, right, pen pals and talking to people that they've never met, sharing photos, sharing intimate parts of their lives.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it isolating in the room could be one thing, right, it's right, what am I noticing my kid, right, they're, they're,
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[SPEAKER_01]: disinterested in hobbies that they used to be interested in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They don't want to go to school.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They're their friendships are deteriorating.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They're just not the same.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of these can be shouts in your face, very, very loud.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we can see that, but it happens long before.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little cookie crumbs that you can pick up now as a trained person like that's easier to see, but for family members, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think the main things are, you know, sneaking out of the house substance use finding finding jobs are all in their home or refusing to go to school.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I see as is a big one as well.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's kind of when you know like there's an issue and what ages do you guys look at see like how young and how old can you typically work with?
18:48.271 --> 18:52.974
[SPEAKER_01]: I've placed an eight year old eight not so that's that's what I've worked with.
18:53.234 --> 18:55.315
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's the same for me.
18:55.375 --> 18:57.336
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just placed a 35 year old.
18:57.396 --> 19:02.679
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like young adults are getting older and out of lessons is getting younger.
19:02.939 --> 19:03.760
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
19:04.061 --> 19:19.755
[SPEAKER_02]: And for those of you who don't understand when we say a 35 year old as a young adult, this is very typical of that individual because I know from the programs I've worked at, that if you have a young adult, especially where their mental health is not being intervened on at a young age,
19:20.355 --> 19:26.722
[SPEAKER_02]: And or they are picking up maybe substances, their growth is completely just halt like stalls, right?
19:26.842 --> 19:36.633
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's 35-year-old who isn't thriving and just surviving and living at home maybe with the parents that, yeah, you're young adult, you know, that needs needs more.
19:36.713 --> 19:38.455
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also just want to stress because
19:40.658 --> 19:47.364
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of times families rightfully so are looking at their finances and and their worried.
19:47.484 --> 19:48.806
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this will be expensive.
19:49.186 --> 19:54.251
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean this every time I I set a family up with with any of you guys.
19:54.511 --> 20:04.101
[SPEAKER_02]: I truly believe in it's truth that not only saving families money in the long run, but in real time because of the relationships you have with some.
20:04.881 --> 20:20.814
[SPEAKER_02]: programs in schools and know which of the ones that have financing or scholarship options, like you just have the knowledge of, okay, this is what you have that you can invest in this process and we are going to best utilize it.
20:21.054 --> 20:36.820
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and navigate you because a lot of times, unfortunately, if a family on their own just calls a program, that program on the other end of the phone is just thinking about them and those 30 days and how, you know, they're not worried about let's plan out for the rest of the year or let's.
20:38.141 --> 20:42.923
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean, and I think that's also planning I mean, it's long term plan and you don't have you know that.
20:43.363 --> 20:47.105
[SPEAKER_03]: That question we all hated as kids was like, where do you see yourself in five years?
20:47.385 --> 20:49.466
[SPEAKER_03]: That is the question, you know what I mean?
20:49.666 --> 20:53.768
[SPEAKER_03]: It is okay, where do we think this is gonna go for five years?
20:54.328 --> 21:03.532
[SPEAKER_03]: And just to jump on coolz answer, if it's okay, it's totally as far as parents needing and when and how and all that, all of that is so true.
21:03.972 --> 21:06.914
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've had multiple conversations with parents.
21:07.534 --> 21:12.097
[SPEAKER_03]: lately, where it's like, there's not anything huge, right?
21:12.137 --> 21:17.781
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we're not, you know, we're not, we're not at high risk behaviors, right?
21:17.821 --> 21:23.826
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're not, you know, in the world of addiction at this point, or we're, you know, having a full psychotic, anything.
21:24.166 --> 21:27.608
[SPEAKER_03]: But their worlds have become so small, you know?
21:27.948 --> 21:32.792
[SPEAKER_03]: And I say to parents and co-like you mentioned, right, isolating, like, they're
21:33.472 --> 21:35.053
[SPEAKER_03]: 20 and they're in the room.
21:35.154 --> 21:36.955
[SPEAKER_03]: There's it's such a small room.
21:36.995 --> 21:38.156
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't go anywhere.
21:38.216 --> 21:41.558
[SPEAKER_03]: They're afraid to go go out and make friends and all that.
21:41.578 --> 21:52.827
[SPEAKER_03]: So even that, right, there's programs for just that, you know, so that's what's the magic of this world is like there is a place and a solution for everybody.
21:53.107 --> 22:02.690
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what you just like touched on, which is so important, I always say this and screen this to everybody is, hey, you don't need to be in crisis to ask for help.
22:03.411 --> 22:03.771
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
22:03.991 --> 22:07.572
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's not get to crisis, and then ask for help.
22:07.592 --> 22:11.553
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, part of what you are talking about is,
22:13.354 --> 22:16.035
[SPEAKER_02]: Listen, I don't think there's this one way for every kid.
22:16.215 --> 22:19.315
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what it should look like at 18 to be thriving.
22:19.395 --> 22:26.117
[SPEAKER_02]: But as a parent, I think you know when your kid needs a little bit more of extra something.
22:26.677 --> 22:29.557
[SPEAKER_02]: And I see it more times than not with all my friends who have kids.
22:30.037 --> 22:33.918
[SPEAKER_02]: They're being, they're calling this doctor, checking this person out, talking to this therapist.
22:34.018 --> 22:36.799
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're being, you know, thrown into a million directions.
22:37.579 --> 22:39.299
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, wonder why they're overwhelmed.
22:39.479 --> 22:41.000
[SPEAKER_02]: I would be overwhelmed, you know?
22:43.260 --> 22:47.101
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, who should I believe, who's the, you know, who's the person to talk to.
22:47.601 --> 23:12.247
[SPEAKER_02]: And so with that, I have to ask you, because I always on this podcast want families to be equipped with the red flags and the green flags, meaning, you know, when you're shopping around, I hate to say shopping around, but looking for the best therapeutic consultant to work with your child, what are some things that a family, more in need to look for when it comes to qualifications, training, professional background,
23:13.447 --> 23:17.251
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what are some red flags and green flags or like what are some things?
23:17.511 --> 23:17.711
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
23:18.131 --> 23:27.860
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I think green flags and I think at the bare minimum experience working with We kids that fall under any of these data go what you'd be surprised right now
23:28.420 --> 23:31.141
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, who's in the field and who's practicing.
23:31.221 --> 23:46.208
[SPEAKER_03]: So to me, the bare minimum is some experience in that world, whether it's a teacher or a therapist or a tutor, you know, somebody that understands has some understanding of the brain and the wiring and all of that, and of course, you know, and understand.
23:46.228 --> 23:50.770
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're in the therapeutic world and understanding of mental health, I mean, for me, it was really important.
23:50.790 --> 23:51.971
[SPEAKER_03]: I had a clinical background.
23:52.051 --> 23:53.191
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I'm my master's
23:57.613 --> 23:58.254
[SPEAKER_03]: such an edge.
23:58.334 --> 23:59.614
[SPEAKER_03]: I need so important.
23:59.734 --> 24:21.688
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't even only to understand like verbage and like being able to read and evaluation for really what it is and understanding the difference between a good evaluation and a not so great evaluation because they're out there and then I for me as well what's the best education for me and and how I feel as qualified as I do is that I work in a
24:24.209 --> 24:27.111
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, for dual digs, dual diagnosed out of lessons.
24:27.151 --> 24:38.080
[SPEAKER_03]: So like being in that, not just for the client and their family, but to understand truly what he's going to do and doing in these programs and how hard that work is.
24:38.940 --> 24:41.943
[SPEAKER_03]: So as a consultant, it's about collaboration.
24:41.963 --> 24:42.023
[SPEAKER_03]: So,
24:42.703 --> 24:49.547
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to understand the stress level and the tolerance that these folks have on a 24-7, right?
24:49.567 --> 24:52.768
[SPEAKER_03]: They're there all the time and it's a hard job.
24:52.828 --> 24:58.891
[SPEAKER_03]: So really having an understanding of both sides of those things I think is really important.
24:59.032 --> 25:06.996
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's a lot of, I have a lot of friends and colleagues that don't have that education, don't have that experience and they do a wonderful job.
25:07.016 --> 25:09.437
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's a little more hit or mess.
25:11.698 --> 25:15.843
[SPEAKER_03]: That basic skill set, you know, in my opinion.
25:16.163 --> 25:23.491
[SPEAKER_02]: And I noticed, and I've noticed just the success I've had with families and just where I think just from.
25:23.511 --> 25:26.154
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not, you know.
25:27.075 --> 25:35.425
[SPEAKER_02]: in the past where let's say the parent, parent coach calls with a referral for so-and-so treatment that I'm working with.
25:35.866 --> 25:44.536
[SPEAKER_02]: The questions that they're asking or the the things are not understanding is is like a major, it's concerning.
25:44.616 --> 25:45.457
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, yeah.
25:45.497 --> 25:45.838
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
25:46.118 --> 26:04.772
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like I always said, like, if I have to work with a therapeutic consultant or parent coach, let's say, and we have a kid in treatment who's calling mom, saying, Mom, they're only feeding me Taco Bell once in the morning, if I have that professional, then calling to be like, why are you only feeding them Taco Bell in the morning?
26:13.278 --> 26:19.785
[SPEAKER_02]: get for mental, you know, and I'm not against people wanting to help, but I also think a big part of this work.
26:19.946 --> 26:22.989
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about one's life, one's mental health.
26:23.530 --> 26:32.279
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a huge, it's a huge undertaking, and it's a huge, you know, it can be really dangerous if the right person is not.
26:33.440 --> 26:34.141
[SPEAKER_02]: staring you.
26:34.581 --> 26:45.349
[SPEAKER_02]: And so with all due respect to some of some, you know, moms I've worked with who may be just their kids are off to school and now they're taking this up as a, you know, a new job.
26:45.710 --> 26:52.194
[SPEAKER_02]: It's great, but make sure that you have some of this in the background because that is really, really important.
26:52.415 --> 26:53.015
[SPEAKER_02]: Not just that.
27:02.542 --> 27:06.224
[SPEAKER_03]: food by the pretty place, right?
27:06.324 --> 27:24.931
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, some of the most successful and most fabulous programs I've ever worked with need a lot of repair, you know, on the physical, physical plan or property, but I would send my own children because I know that they're going to be cared for, they're going to be treated by the best.
27:25.092 --> 27:25.912
[SPEAKER_03]: So I do think
27:26.412 --> 27:35.497
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think it's an important and you know our organizations that a lot of us belong to and I think I feel the standards need to be a little stricter.
27:35.617 --> 27:44.102
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they need to be a little bit more you know more account yet to be a little more accountable for your experience.
27:44.163 --> 27:44.883
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what I mean?
27:45.063 --> 28:03.755
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean, do you mean oversight by like, yeah, like you guys, yeah, if you're going to be a consultant, I think you should have a little bit more of a rigorous training in my opinion, that's just me, you know, more we're going to do another episode on this because this is also something that is just so
28:14.442 --> 28:18.243
[SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, we work just in the treatment world alone.
28:18.583 --> 28:27.846
[SPEAKER_02]: I say, you know, it's funny, like, if you look at Wall Street, when somebody like Bernie made off comes along and does, you know, big Ponzi scheme and takes from all these families.
28:28.406 --> 28:38.929
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, people, you know, the SEC that oversees all of them will tweak what they need to do for a tighter grip on overseeing what is right and what is wrong.
28:39.249 --> 28:40.750
[SPEAKER_02]: It is maddening to me.
28:41.310 --> 28:55.683
[SPEAKER_02]: that we do not have that oversight with pretty much anybody, and so what we come up against is not only as myself, it gets these calls of telling a family about you guys, but then I'm being so, I just, I don't even sell you.
28:56.504 --> 28:59.646
[SPEAKER_02]: tell them how great and qualified you are.
28:59.666 --> 29:09.913
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, well, we found Harry the recovery coach in a meeting and you know, or Jack the the hormone coach, he's going to help my young adult with his hormones and also talk about placement.
29:11.354 --> 29:14.276
[SPEAKER_01]: The knowledge faces so critical as well.
29:14.296 --> 29:18.159
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's why I'm hearing you talk about marine because like, yeah, you've been to one treatment center.
29:18.179 --> 29:19.259
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been to a lot of them.
29:19.640 --> 29:22.642
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of them look super fancy and they have all the bells and whistles.
29:22.962 --> 29:37.209
[SPEAKER_01]: They have your other ones that, like Marine said, maybe hasn't had a face lift in a few years, but what we're doing is not necessarily, at least I said, I do planters, not necessarily placing them in the program, but with the therapist, right?
29:37.229 --> 29:42.852
[SPEAKER_02]: With the person, who's the director, who's the person that's working at that program?
29:43.272 --> 29:56.555
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to appropriately treat this kid understand right like their clinical issues, the DSM, but also they establish rapport with an adolescent or young adult really well.
29:56.595 --> 29:58.636
[SPEAKER_01]: We've used them before, right?
29:58.716 --> 30:03.277
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's not, oh, this this treatment center works on trauma addiction.
30:03.577 --> 30:06.057
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's it's Joe at treatment.
30:06.077 --> 30:06.918
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for saying.
30:06.998 --> 30:08.818
[SPEAKER_01]: I want him to go to right when I
30:13.379 --> 30:18.281
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember there was this, I'm not going to name who, um, can I name who it is?
30:18.321 --> 30:20.682
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because I adore him, and I'm only just saying good thing.
30:20.923 --> 30:22.343
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you, griff, Michael Griffin?
30:22.843 --> 30:24.924
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys know from old back in the day, New Vogue.
30:25.565 --> 30:33.168
[SPEAKER_02]: This guy who, like, if you listening out there, we, I love an adoria is was the most soft spoken man.
30:33.729 --> 30:36.170
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had them at a conference once and he was very shy.
30:36.870 --> 30:55.119
[SPEAKER_02]: But there was something about him and I could tell, you know, there was a case I worked with where this young man was revolting and kicking every which way to get out of treatment, throwing bricks through windows to get out of treatment, stealing staff cars and driving through state lines to get out of treatment.
30:55.799 --> 31:11.575
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, well, let's see if Griff can get through, you know, and and Griff did, you know, and he had this amazing ability to be, I'm not going to say like the jerk asshole whisper because I love these boys, but what I say by asshole is like more about that.
31:12.280 --> 31:19.362
[SPEAKER_02]: like they're they're they're defiant behavior and you're like oh and you can't get through he can get through to those kids.
31:19.702 --> 31:20.362
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
31:20.482 --> 31:22.542
[SPEAKER_02]: None of these children are jerks are assholes by the way.
31:22.582 --> 31:24.903
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying but more of life.
31:25.163 --> 31:27.844
[SPEAKER_02]: The behavior can be jerky and assholely, right?
31:28.284 --> 31:34.985
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we're griff with you know very little words that would come out to the other adults.
31:35.025 --> 31:38.706
[SPEAKER_02]: He had this way that just got through to these boys, you know that was so beautiful.
31:41.808 --> 31:45.238
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that's just interesting too because it's a fine balance of like
31:46.793 --> 32:12.625
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that sort of does that trickle through the rest of the program because you need it to right now this one stand out and does that right I mean there's this was an excellent program by the way, yeah excellent program excellent therapists like that's what that's what's key and that's what makes that's why consultants need to be out there and be out in the field or at the facility is like does this trickle through or is this just a superstar.
32:13.145 --> 32:31.378
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, because if that super star leaves will have what would now what right so it's got to be like okay is this divide throughout is this training throughout and everyone's going to have their different personalities just like consultants right like there's I'm very direct I'm very we got to solve this problem let's get to it.
32:31.778 --> 32:32.118
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
32:32.218 --> 32:37.221
[SPEAKER_03]: Some families need a softer touch, a little more coddling in that way.
32:37.262 --> 32:38.562
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, some don't.
32:38.742 --> 32:39.803
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's okay.
32:39.843 --> 32:47.068
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's why you should shop around is talk to the folks get the personality that's going to fit just like you would a therapist.
32:47.168 --> 32:47.588
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
32:47.588 --> 32:55.560
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a nice segue into like that's that's exactly why someone might hire coal and not think that on the right fit, right?
32:55.600 --> 32:57.362
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just personality fit too.
32:57.402 --> 33:02.249
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why you have a conversation with families before they hire you, at least I certainly do, right?
33:02.289 --> 33:02.790
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
33:03.050 --> 33:04.090
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's my job too.
33:04.110 --> 33:26.498
[SPEAKER_02]: When I talk to a family, I can tell who's going to register with who or connect with who, of who I've met with and just to go back, you know, the program that that Griff worked at was excellent, but what I mean more is like if I've got a couple kids going to that program personality types knowing who's going to get through to who Like that's why it's so important and that's why it is so important to be working with
33:26.878 --> 33:50.314
[SPEAKER_02]: a therapeutic consultant who is doing that due diligence for you as well, you know, getting out there, meeting the people and saying, ah, you know, because a therapeutic consultant their skill set has to be so much, but also like the, like you were saying more in what you're great at and the good ones are is just really getting to know who you are and connecting and knowing who's going to make a difference in your life.
33:50.775 --> 33:51.395
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
33:52.816 --> 33:53.757
[SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of families,
33:55.738 --> 34:07.049
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I worked at an adolescent program recently and I wish they would do this for all programs, it was mandated that if for a kid to come to their residential treatment program, the families had to take part.
34:07.569 --> 34:10.532
[SPEAKER_02]: Meaning, you know, with the family programming, uh,
34:11.773 --> 34:28.836
[SPEAKER_02]: just be an active part in not only helping their loved one in treatment, but really kind of doing some things for themselves so that everybody is helping them working and also changes are being made and being looked at.
34:29.197 --> 34:34.798
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just bettering everybody involved in the family to be involved kind of thing.
34:34.818 --> 34:39.078
[SPEAKER_02]: And also what we found with some of the outcomes is the more families that are involved,
34:41.899 --> 34:49.023
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so, Cole, do you expect family work or parallel process from parents while the child is in treatment when they're working with you?
34:49.824 --> 34:55.867
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you ask that of them to be doing, like, expecting, I can set myself up for, for the reason.
34:55.907 --> 35:07.794
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
35:08.501 --> 35:26.217
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trained on attachment and I understand how important that is to a child and adolescent anybody really, but how crucial that is early on, and mental health addiction, yes, there are some brain chemistry, there's some wiring that's involved, but it's
35:26.938 --> 35:28.679
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also not created in a vacuum.
35:28.799 --> 35:30.639
[SPEAKER_01]: These relationships issues, right?
35:30.999 --> 35:33.060
[SPEAKER_01]: These ups and downs, these emotional problems.
35:33.120 --> 35:35.101
[SPEAKER_01]: I think stem from a lot of relationships.
35:35.581 --> 35:40.982
[SPEAKER_01]: And not to blame parents because I truly believe that they do the best they can with what they have.
35:41.683 --> 35:44.243
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes this is outdated information, right?
35:44.323 --> 35:47.484
[SPEAKER_01]: The manual that they're reading from, I can get into it.
35:47.584 --> 35:50.005
[SPEAKER_01]: I can use my parents' manual that they parent with me.
35:50.425 --> 35:52.246
[SPEAKER_01]: I can use their grandparents' manual.
35:52.266 --> 35:53.146
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what am I doing?
35:56.027 --> 36:17.310
[SPEAKER_01]: to take a step back and just kind of look um yeah there's son or daughter's entertainment they're going through their process which is extremely difficult it's vulnerable it's intimate it's hard to just to just send your kid away and expect them to just come back fix right we always say that but it's like that like that
36:19.074 --> 36:35.822
[SPEAKER_01]: I can tell you how many parents I've also coached along in the process that once their understanding of variations in their ecosystems and their beliefs, how the dynamic changes, how it softens, how they start seeing their child in a different light.
36:36.103 --> 36:40.105
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that connection piece is so critical and crucial.
36:41.105 --> 36:44.987
[SPEAKER_01]: For a lot of times, well, all the time, the kid comes
36:45.529 --> 36:48.552
[SPEAKER_01]: the adolescent, they come back home, right?
36:48.652 --> 36:57.381
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if they're come back to the same soup that they're cooked in and nothing is changed, it's gonna be extremely hard for them, right?
36:58.181 --> 37:09.592
[SPEAKER_01]: But if they come back to that, sorry, come back to this changed environment of looking at things and everybody's working on themselves, the amount of growth is exponential.
37:10.253 --> 37:16.488
[SPEAKER_02]: Then I think what you're saying is so like, I know for somebody on adult who is in treatment, I remember my mother.
37:17.342 --> 37:23.704
[SPEAKER_02]: God bless her, um, you know, that generation, uh, they didn't, you know, take anti-depressants per se.
37:23.744 --> 37:25.544
[SPEAKER_02]: They did not ask for help.
37:25.584 --> 37:26.805
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't seek therapists.
37:27.465 --> 37:33.707
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think something also parents, unless they get start working on themselves don't really understand.
37:34.047 --> 37:36.168
[SPEAKER_02]: When we say it's not your fault, it's not your fault.
37:36.368 --> 37:40.029
[SPEAKER_02]: What happens, though, is because of your own,
37:40.689 --> 37:41.789
[SPEAKER_02]: upbringing, right?
37:42.290 --> 37:44.110
[SPEAKER_02]: Or trauma that's never been treated.
37:44.630 --> 37:48.011
[SPEAKER_02]: What ends up happening is or your mental health stuff, right?
37:48.451 --> 37:52.433
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like it determines and how you're going to parent in a lot of ways.
37:52.953 --> 38:02.956
[SPEAKER_02]: And be, you know, I use this example all the time that, you know, when I worked at a treatment program and we used to have this young adult female who just kept leaving treatment, right?
38:03.196 --> 38:04.376
[SPEAKER_02]: This, this was an RML.
38:04.396 --> 38:05.336
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a chose did.
38:05.716 --> 38:06.817
[SPEAKER_02]: She would make it announcement.
38:07.557 --> 38:15.865
[SPEAKER_02]: at the time she was diagnosed borderlines, so she would make this announcement that she was leaving and she would leave and then immediately she'd start calling Mom and Dad.
38:16.406 --> 38:25.615
[SPEAKER_02]: So they were working with a great interventionist in case management therapy to consult in company that were really good.
38:28.117 --> 38:32.198
[SPEAKER_02]: we were asking them this is all about now the time to take those tiny shifts.
38:32.698 --> 38:37.179
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not asking for major moves, but loving a little differently to see if we can get a different outcome.
38:37.319 --> 38:41.800
[SPEAKER_02]: All we had asked these parents to do was for like two hours, don't pick up the phone.
38:42.220 --> 38:43.300
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's see what happens.
38:43.960 --> 38:50.821
[SPEAKER_02]: And what we found was that was so hard for them because they didn't know how to do it because
38:53.682 --> 38:54.782
[SPEAKER_02]: A, they haven't practiced.
38:54.942 --> 39:02.124
[SPEAKER_02]: B, some voice in their head is telling them, well, if I don't pick up that phone, my kids get a die on the street, right?
39:02.225 --> 39:10.487
[SPEAKER_02]: If I don't pick up the phone, you know, and like I can't handle my kid being uncomfortable, if they're uncomfortable, I'm going to be even more uncomfortable.
39:10.987 --> 39:32.326
[SPEAKER_02]: And all of that comes from honestly, it's just like I think the benefit of when families can do some work on themselves, it's also so they'll become better for themselves and better parents, you know, and I mean, because they get to really find out why that narrative even began, you know, when we talk about the general parenting today, you know, how did that begin, you know, and a lot of times it was because
39:33.374 --> 39:40.458
[SPEAKER_02]: and I can go off about this, but it's a lot of times that we're, you know, as kids, you know, we had really strict upbringing or we weren't heard.
39:40.778 --> 39:42.679
[SPEAKER_02]: So then they go to the other extreme.
39:42.899 --> 39:48.842
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think to, I think, and I've always said this, and this isn't just to say it, it's the truth.
39:49.042 --> 39:53.964
[SPEAKER_02]: When I have a family, so sad that their kids in treatment are that this is all happening.
39:54.025 --> 39:54.585
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, no.
39:55.045 --> 40:11.994
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not only such an amazing opportunity for your child to be start with that journey of becoming the better them, you know, and the best they can be, but also for you guys to really take a bite into this and start doing some things differently and looking at yourselves and working on yourselves.
40:12.375 --> 40:14.676
[SPEAKER_02]: So you are also becoming better for yourself.
40:14.816 --> 40:19.699
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so much shame in those conversations, I've so this is the worst thing.
40:19.740 --> 40:23.282
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so sorry if you're so bad and that's shame permeates, right?
40:23.402 --> 40:29.847
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it just passes down generation away and it's yeah, it's it's so crucial.
40:30.047 --> 40:33.029
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would urge every parent to do that parallel process.
40:33.049 --> 40:34.890
[SPEAKER_01]: There's actually a book called parallel process.
40:35.030 --> 40:38.353
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you Cole, we'll put that in our show notes.
40:38.973 --> 40:39.733
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:39.894 --> 40:41.454
[SPEAKER_01]: I recommend every parent read that.
40:42.275 --> 40:44.756
[SPEAKER_01]: That's working with us just for knowledge.
40:45.056 --> 40:48.778
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to help your child, I think it starts with with us.
40:49.478 --> 40:50.319
[SPEAKER_02]: No, definitely.
40:50.559 --> 40:59.723
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, um, you know, for us the last question of the show today, I wanted to just turn back to more rain and say, you know, you
41:01.264 --> 41:08.189
[SPEAKER_02]: How does a therapeutic consultant work with a young person's existing therapist in psychiatrists and school and professionals involved?
41:08.449 --> 41:08.810
[SPEAKER_02]: All that.
41:09.050 --> 41:09.530
[SPEAKER_02]: How do they?
41:10.611 --> 41:14.734
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm sure you know that's doing as long as you have.
41:14.834 --> 41:16.435
[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone does a little bit differently.
41:16.475 --> 41:25.042
[SPEAKER_03]: So I can only speak to what works for me and what I think is a good approach is you basically become part of the clinical team, right?
41:25.382 --> 41:25.742
[SPEAKER_03]: The team.
41:26.823 --> 41:31.170
[SPEAKER_03]: And you also, especially as you're getting to know everyone again, your data collecting, right?
41:31.190 --> 41:36.057
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you're getting information, defer to that, defer to that team, right?
41:36.097 --> 41:41.224
[SPEAKER_03]: Until you can start to maybe form your own opinions after getting as much information as possible.
41:41.805 --> 41:43.768
[SPEAKER_03]: that's how I approach it.
41:44.128 --> 41:51.077
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I also think you have to have, you have to, you have to understand what your lane is.
41:51.397 --> 41:53.039
[SPEAKER_03]: You stay in your lane, right?
41:53.119 --> 41:57.104
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for saying so many don't and so many don't.
41:57.705 --> 42:03.868
[SPEAKER_03]: it's frustrating for me because of all the things we've already talked about is you don't know what's going on in that program.
42:03.888 --> 42:05.668
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't know what's going on with the milieu.
42:05.728 --> 42:06.809
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't know what's going on.
42:07.189 --> 42:10.570
[SPEAKER_03]: So all you can do is to continue to gather data, right?
42:10.670 --> 42:16.213
[SPEAKER_03]: Keep getting the data, keep getting the data and then make some observations, obviously, and then
42:16.893 --> 42:31.014
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to have the courage and the confidence to step in when you think you should and it's not so sorry, but you ought to have that confidence and that goes back to to education and training and all that it cannot be a feeling.
42:32.095 --> 42:40.197
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it can it can to open the conversation, but there has to be some knowledge there to say, wait a minute, I don't know if this is working.
42:40.277 --> 42:41.197
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to challenge.
42:41.217 --> 42:48.679
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to push back a little bit, not because Mom wants me to, not because we're not making progress fast enough.
42:48.779 --> 42:57.301
[SPEAKER_03]: It's because I feel in my clinical knowledge and experience that there's something else going on here that I'd like to look at or what haven't we tried.
42:57.401 --> 42:57.981
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's try this.
42:58.941 --> 43:19.345
[SPEAKER_03]: And that goes back again to the role of a therapy to console and which is about to the relationship piece and the people you know and and building those relationships with those therapists is like trust me we trust each other hey that's not about idea moring like you know or that's not about idea therapists a right like we just keep collaborating so.
43:19.685 --> 43:21.566
[SPEAKER_03]: The idea is collaboration, right?
43:21.686 --> 43:35.554
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, and again, knowing when to stay in your lane, knowing when to push back, you know, gently, and, you know, in a meeting that is, you know, between you and that person, or does it make sense?
43:35.634 --> 43:40.237
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, hey, let's have a conference call with everybody because everybody's hitting a little bit of,
43:40.657 --> 43:47.680
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, back to, you know, I always make it, you know, the, the analogy of like, let me, I can quarterback this for you.
43:47.820 --> 44:02.688
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, you know, I don't, I just know the people in the plays and all that, but I'm going to let you do you so that I think is the, the, how you fit into the whole care team and I say this time in time again on my episodes.
44:02.728 --> 44:07.510
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I haven't listeners and viewers, I will start saying this time and time again in my, uh,
44:08.311 --> 44:09.592
[SPEAKER_02]: in my episodes.
44:10.392 --> 44:21.698
[SPEAKER_02]: At the core you want to work with providers when it comes to getting, you know, treatment, finding a psychiatrist, finding a therapist, you name it.
44:22.179 --> 44:31.244
[SPEAKER_02]: The biggest red flag for me is when I have a provider who is pushing back or telling the family, not a nag, you don't need that.
44:31.824 --> 44:33.505
[SPEAKER_02]: or don't want to collaborate.
44:33.825 --> 44:35.045
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to say this again.
44:35.125 --> 44:42.688
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have a psychiatrist who says, you know, because I've seen this worse psychiatrist, like, no, I know how to prescribe the medication.
44:43.048 --> 44:45.229
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this kid maybe needs a little bit more.
44:45.249 --> 44:48.471
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to get them proper assessment from another psychiatrist, right?
44:48.931 --> 44:51.692
[SPEAKER_02]: So if that psychiatrist is like, no, but I can do that.
44:52.372 --> 44:55.033
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that, you know, that's the pushback I'm talking about, right?
44:55.173 --> 45:00.154
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of times there's egos and there are people that don't know when to stay in their own lane.
45:00.614 --> 45:04.075
[SPEAKER_02]: So listeners, like for instance, I have a therapist in Psychiatrist.
45:04.195 --> 45:12.778
[SPEAKER_02]: Anytime I bring in a new idea of somebody to work with for something that they're like, great, how do we sign some releases so we can all get on the same page?
45:13.198 --> 45:13.458
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
45:13.938 --> 45:19.100
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're working with anybody who isn't wanting to do that, we're collaborating like I,
45:20.160 --> 45:20.900
[SPEAKER_02]: real quick story.
45:20.960 --> 45:38.369
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a therapist that I had to report at a Florida who had not only lied about his qualifications, but behind the scenes while this kid was in treatment was not only telling mom and dad the complete opposite of what we told them to do and we'd been trying to work with them on a call.
45:38.869 --> 45:43.852
[SPEAKER_02]: He was also treating that young man with no knowledge like never
45:44.532 --> 45:52.555
[SPEAKER_02]: telling us and literally selling this kid that if that pays you $6,000, you can leave tomorrow, come back to Florida and start seeing me.
45:52.935 --> 45:53.515
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
45:53.555 --> 45:59.217
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's, yeah, that he was one of the worst, but you want to work with people that want to work as a team.
45:59.877 --> 46:00.237
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
46:00.537 --> 46:02.538
[SPEAKER_01]: The importance of doing your own work.
46:03.818 --> 46:05.239
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to shout out that too.
46:05.299 --> 46:06.699
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope it doesn't help.
46:06.839 --> 46:07.359
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:07.699 --> 46:08.040
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:08.260 --> 46:08.600
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
46:08.700 --> 46:25.186
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, um, and staying in your lane because you know, um, and knowing, you know, uh, when this, you can also without staying in your own lane is also recognizing as a professional is when you are working with a family, where it might be more complex than you expected.
46:25.906 --> 46:28.447
[SPEAKER_02]: Know that and release the family.
46:29.387 --> 46:30.889
[SPEAKER_02]: I see that off the table.
46:31.009 --> 46:37.054
[SPEAKER_03]: Or also don't be shy and say, you know, don't be embarrassed, right?
46:37.074 --> 46:38.776
[SPEAKER_03]: That you don't know or whatever.
46:38.876 --> 46:40.437
[SPEAKER_03]: Say, hey, I'm not sure about that.
46:40.457 --> 46:42.679
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me go check that out or I'm not aware of that.
46:42.719 --> 46:45.282
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me do a little more research on that or whatever.
46:45.742 --> 46:46.443
[SPEAKER_03]: It's okay.
46:46.503 --> 46:49.125
[SPEAKER_03]: We can't possibly know everything, right?
46:49.285 --> 46:55.371
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the other thing to just wrap up that whole, like, where do you fit in, right, is like,
46:56.947 --> 47:00.269
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to also be okay with people being upset with you.
47:01.309 --> 47:01.689
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
47:01.729 --> 47:02.330
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
47:02.750 --> 47:04.731
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, any parents can be upset with you.
47:04.851 --> 47:10.934
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, because you're challenging or a therapist or a program, you might be upset with you or might be okay.
47:11.234 --> 47:12.415
[SPEAKER_03]: You're being a little difficult.
47:12.455 --> 47:15.536
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, because I'm advocating for my client.
47:15.576 --> 47:21.479
[SPEAKER_03]: So I am going to push back after you get all the information and you've gotten all the data.
47:21.619 --> 47:23.300
[SPEAKER_03]: And you've lifted through it.
47:23.760 --> 47:29.182
[SPEAKER_03]: But don't you have to be able to have that confidence and I, you know, I think that's really important.
47:29.582 --> 47:30.522
[SPEAKER_02]: It is so important.
47:30.702 --> 47:37.884
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for saying that because many times I had kids in treatment where the M.O.
47:37.924 --> 47:45.946
[SPEAKER_02]: has been mom and dad or mom and mom or the parents, the family have pulled their kid out a little too soon, right?
47:46.026 --> 47:48.387
[SPEAKER_02]: They will not take clinical advice and what's the
47:52.148 --> 47:56.130
[SPEAKER_02]: therapy to consult in an intervention, somebody to work with them that's co-signing on that.
47:56.671 --> 48:00.292
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're like, instead of pushing back saying, no, this isn't okay.
48:00.392 --> 48:13.099
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you keep doing the same thing and it's really important and I stress this because I did have a young woman once in treatment for nine months where moms ammo was, let's pull her out, let's pull her out, let's pull her out and, you know,
48:14.288 --> 48:26.611
[SPEAKER_02]: I won't get into all of it, but I'm just saying it's so important to work with someone who isn't going to always yes you either, you know, guys, before we leave and this has been such a good episode and make it two parts.
48:27.131 --> 48:32.993
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have a family on the phone, right, and they're just calling you for the first time and they're getting off the phone with you.
48:33.693 --> 48:48.281
[SPEAKER_02]: out of your whole conversation or talking to them about services you guys do and what exactly a third to you can sell to them is what is like your parting words you want them there's one thing you want them to hear when they get off the call to just remember what would it be?
48:48.702 --> 48:49.062
[SPEAKER_02]: Maureen?
48:51.636 --> 48:55.660
[SPEAKER_03]: my cell number.
48:59.144 --> 49:07.613
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I just want, obviously, what's best for your child also your family, but you got to make the right decision, right?
49:07.653 --> 49:09.254
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got to feel confident about.
49:09.915 --> 49:13.656
[SPEAKER_03]: going forward, are you committing to this, right?
49:13.696 --> 49:18.958
[SPEAKER_03]: And if that doesn't be committing to sending your child away, but can be committing to the process.
49:18.978 --> 49:20.738
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'll walk alongside you.
49:20.878 --> 49:23.279
[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes we got to walk it through.
49:23.759 --> 49:25.079
[SPEAKER_03]: And it might be months.
49:25.240 --> 49:28.160
[SPEAKER_03]: And it might be trial and error to some degree.
49:28.260 --> 49:33.142
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, know that I will be by your side for it.
49:33.242 --> 49:36.043
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, within reason, because once it becomes,
49:37.363 --> 49:56.567
[SPEAKER_03]: your child's not safe for this or that like you there's got to be like you just said you sometimes you do have to say this isn't for me or I'm not for you or whatever but if you do so choose I will be by your side for that you know and it's complicated that's not an easy thing so yeah.
49:57.447 --> 50:00.348
[SPEAKER_02]: No thank you for saying that and Cole what would you say?
50:01.621 --> 50:20.821
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I typically do say something along those lines of like I can't guarantee the outcome of this placement, but I can guarantee you will feel educated supported more knowledgeable more confident walking the steps and being in an informed.
50:22.382 --> 50:23.623
[SPEAKER_01]: consumer, essentially.
50:26.243 --> 50:27.464
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm consulting you.
50:27.844 --> 50:34.926
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping there's a level of trust that we can develop, but I can guarantee that I will be there, much like Marines, right?
50:35.846 --> 50:37.667
[SPEAKER_01]: You will feel confident going forward.
50:38.576 --> 50:38.916
[SPEAKER_02]: great.
50:39.377 --> 50:40.057
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you guys.
50:40.077 --> 51:02.693
[SPEAKER_02]: You seriously are two of the best that I would put I put people with any day of the week, but listen, we're we're at a time, but we're not out of hope, which I also say, but please, every never, this is another episode of Connect Call, but please go to my show notes to see more information of how you can get in touch with Moring Brennan,
51:05.455 --> 51:06.075
[SPEAKER_02]: say did it.
51:06.155 --> 51:07.376
[SPEAKER_02]: I do it.
51:07.756 --> 51:14.280
[SPEAKER_02]: Also you can subscribe download everything on Apple Spotify and YouTube.
51:14.420 --> 51:15.080
[SPEAKER_02]: Please do so.
51:15.160 --> 51:17.862
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can have more than 20 subscribers at this point.
51:18.362 --> 51:20.343
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really just want to thank you again for being here.
51:20.403 --> 51:22.164
[SPEAKER_02]: So thanks again.
51:22.184 --> 51:23.304
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
51:23.344 --> 51:24.585
[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to see you both.
51:25.506 --> 51:26.366
[SPEAKER_02]: You too.
51:26.626 --> 51:27.366
[SPEAKER_02]: Have a good day.
51:27.787 --> 51:28.627
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next week.
51:29.428 --> 51:29.828
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye bye.
51:30.724 --> 51:33.005
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call.
51:33.445 --> 51:43.568
[SPEAKER_02]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
51:43.988 --> 51:52.171
[SPEAKER_02]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical, health professional, or health care provider for personalized advice tailored to your unique needs.
51:52.671 --> 51:56.072
[SPEAKER_02]: Your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential.
51:56.633 --> 52:05.236
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area.
52:05.637 --> 52:09.838
[SPEAKER_02]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority.
52:10.238 --> 52:15.901
[SPEAKER_02]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel.
52:16.361 --> 52:18.382
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here to support you every step of the way.