From Trauma to Triumph: Amanda's 11-Year Fight for Freedom

Ryan: All right. Welcome to another episode of CodeFord Podcast. we are in studio today with a very dear friend of mine, Amanda. Thank you for being here today. Amanda and I know each other from the local department We were in the same hire group together. We went to the academy together. She picked on me at the academy the entire time. it was- Yeah. She sat behind me. She picked on the way that I ran. ⁓ We do run Yeah, I run like an old man. He runs like an old man. I am an old man. But in ⁓ getting know Amanda, ⁓ she me that she had a very unique background and childhood experience and she has come ⁓ to join us today to with us some of that experience. so we are honored to have her here to share some space with her. So thank you for being here from the bottom of my heart. proud of you for being here today. So I'm gonna lie, I'm kind of nervous about this one. ⁓
Sal: All right, well, we'll give her a round of applause for being here today, Amanda.
Ryan: Because you texted me earlier today, you're like, I'm nervous. I'm like, I'm nervous too, because I want to make sure I do a good job for you. So this is your story and I want to make sure that you have the means tell it. And you can share as much or as little as you want. ⁓ You've seen all the ⁓ that I sent you. That's what we're going to about today. So it's up to you how much you want to divulge ⁓ and expound upon. But again, honored that you're here and I appreciate you being here. I even got your tissues and ⁓ some white monsters. And if you start crying, I swear to God, Amanda, I'm going to cry with you. So just be prepared for that. You can share that box of tissues. Okay. All right. So, you ready? Yeah, I think so. Okay. All right. So just yourself a little bit. Tell us, tell us about where you're from, so on and so forth. How you ended up here. Long story. I mean, I'm born and raised for the most part.
Sal: I'll start crying with you guys too.
Ryan: in New England, all my family's in Rhode Island. then I went to college at Austin Peay. How'd you go from Rhode Island to... There was a giant hurdle in between. Yeah, I ⁓ I feel like we're going to get into that, but... So ⁓ growing up in Rhode Island, who raised you? Mom, dad? So I with my mom and my dad initially, but my mom had a drug problem. tried harm me. I lost her to opiates. She was a heroin user. Then I went to go live with my dad and his ⁓ new wife. yeah, just pretty much them and then siblings, but that's a long explanation too. So how many siblings you have? In total, six. ⁓ Were they your siblings or like? So no, the only one that I am still in contact with is my brother, Connor. And he's my biological full brother. Okay. right. So fast, I'm going to fast forward. You went to college at Austin P. Yes. All right. What, what'd you major in in college? Political science and criminal justice. I was going to go to law school. Really? Yeah. I didn't know that. Why? Do you want to be a lawyer? Yeah. Yeah, I did. You know, you still can, you're still young. Yeah, I know. But I think being on the law enforcement side of it, I realized that I could never be a lawyer. Yeah, I could never go back there. I like what we do now. you like being a cop? Yes. What made you pursue law enforcement? I knew that I wanted to help people, really because of ⁓ how grew up. ⁓ I there was a point in my life when I...
Sal: Go back to it.
Ryan: I didn't know if I would grow up. Amanda, I'm almost 47 and I'm still not growing up. Yeah. I may never grow up. It's fine. Yeah. I wanted to.
Sal: Worse than that. Yeah, was just about to say that.
Ryan: I wanted to give a reason to have gone through all of the things that I went through. I wanted to make my life mean something, I guess. I you do a good job of that. Thanks, ⁓ I've you out there. You are one fantastic officer. I'm very proud of you. Thank you. ⁓ Okay. That said, we're already it. We're five minutes in here and I guess we're here already, so that's fine. You're already tearing up and it's going to get me soon. promise. So like in the time that we shared together, like at the Academy and so on and so forth, you shared with me a little bit about your past, but not much. And you shared that it was very similar to, because you had pointed me in the direction of this Netflix series called Cults, Cons, and Kidnapping and another series called Wayward. Now I watched the Colts, Cons, and Kidnapping, you said it was very similar to that. Now, nobody seen that Netflix docu-series, it is still available on Netflix. came out in 2024. So I encourage all of guys to check that out. You had mentioned that your life was about... You were not at that location. Correct. Okay. You were at a location similar. Yes. So in that docu-series, I'm going to read what they're... Kind of the Wikipedia, Colts' Cons of Kidnapping, a 2024 American true crime documentary. Available on Netflix, it follows the director and former classmates of hers from the Academy at Ivy Ridge, which was an actual place, a behavioral modification facility that was marked as a boarding school. They reflect on abusive conditions as they experience the program and the lasting trauma. Now, the other series you talked about, Wayward, this is a Canadian mystery thriller. It's in a fictional town called Tall Pines. teenagers and local police uncover the town's dark secrets. Right. So is that a place very similar to? Yes. Okay. You were not in either one of those facilities, but I kind of did some research, there are hundreds of behavioral modifications, facilities and therapeutic boarding schools similar to the Academy at Ivy Ridge from 2001 to 2009 operating historically present in the United States. These institutions are part of a multi-billion dollar troubled teen industry with many affiliated organizations like the Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs in school, like the WASP program, which marketed strict programs for at-risk youth. Yeah. So it's... They're all under an umbrella and not all of them are targeted towards, I would say like a behavioral modification. The therapeutic boarding, They're all the same model of I guess you could say. Essentially they say, we can help your whether that's ⁓ like your child has autism or. Your child is dyslexic and is struggling in school or your child is getting into drugs. mean, it's a essentially it's, we're going to raise your kid for you. and I think the, mean, there are still programs and open today. although I, I mean, I, I still follow a lot of, like the legislation and stuff that's going on there. And there are people who are actively trying to get. more regulation and get these places shut down because it's I mean they're Breeding grounds for abuse. Yes. I mean there's there's zero regulation. They have people in there who I mean There's no yeah, there's no there's no not making sure that you're not you know a sex offender or that you like ⁓ kinds of things there's ⁓
Sal: Not accredited. Right. Are these, I have a question, are these state funded or are these personally funded, like through like your parents?
Ryan: I believe they get state funding, but I also, I know that it costs a tremendous amount of money to go. Which is crazy to me how some of these places get funding. What's even crazier is how you find a place like this. Yeah.
Sal: Yeah, that was my question was like do parents our parents paying for their kids to go here and then I can only imagine what boarding is like for something like that and then it had to be state funded so they're they're having to get it somewhere and that was my question is like how can this go unregulated like that?
Ryan: Yeah, I think it's a mix of both because I personally knew of some people who were initially in foster care before they ended up at something like this. Whereas I come from affluent family. My dad had a lot had money ⁓ and just want to be a parent. So ⁓ like these were targeted for people like kids of at risk use, ⁓ at risk I can't say that fast three times. Would you consider yourself like a troubled youth? No. us how you ended up there. I was seven. I have even called myself a youth at that point. I went to go live with my dad and my stepmom after what happened. My stepmom did not want another female in the house. There was a... ⁓ A lot of things going on. She had a son. Some things were going on that he was doing towards me. ⁓ Essentially, yeah, she just did not want me in that old was he? Three years older than me. So he would have been 10. Okay. So does she convince your dad to send you there? My dad was a very absent parent. was doctor at his own practice, but also like traveled with sports teams and did stuff like that. So he was rarely home. He blames the entire thing now on 9-11, which is... Okay, I think but yeah, he just wasn't he wasn't a present parent he doesn't like confrontation or fighting and essentially His wife at the time was like you need to choose between Your daughter and me because I don't want to raise her Okay Do you have a relationship with your dad now? It's complicated. I don't think I will ever ⁓ have like a father daughter relationship with him. But he is in my life and he shows up for me in other ways, it's not anything like a parent. So you were seven when all this started for you. In the series, the cults, cons and kidnapping. Like there were men that actually came out to the residence in the middle of the night and then kidnapped the kids and took them back to these facilities. Tell us how it worked for you. So it's a service. They pay, your parents pay or whoever pays to have them wake you up in the middle of the night supposed to scare you or... Yeah, essentially.
Sal: stairs straight or something.
Ryan: wake you up in the middle of the night, essentially put you in the back of a vehicle, a van, and then drive you to your destination. And they don't really explain what's going on. And then you just arrive and that's it. So when these guys showed up in the middle of the night, how many were there? Two. But also I was 40 pounds, probably 50 pounds. Did they handcuff you? I know. restrain you in any way? Picked me up, but I mean, I would assume if I was bigger, they probably would have. Okay. Where was your dad during this? He was there. I remember, like my last image of them as I'm being brought down the stairs is like my dad and my ex-stepmom and my brothers like standing on the top of the stairs. That was the last time I saw them for 11 years. I'm sorry. That's crazy.
Sal: Yeah.
Ryan: Man, you talk to him at all? thing, once you got to this facility, without the location or where it's at, just kind describe it for us. a ranch in the middle of nowhere. Essentially, like, because I don't refer to it as a school. was like a was like a cult to me. A bunch buildings ⁓ in the that you could see nothing for miles. And that was kind of the the intention was like if you try to run away, you're like walls around it, like a perimeter. Now, I mean, there was a fence. Yeah. I mean, sort of like how wayward is a fence like that. Yeah. All right. How many kids do you think were there when you get there? I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to guess, but in my general vicinity, maybe like 30, 40. And is that in total or is that like your age group? in total that were around me. I knew there were boys in own ⁓ separate but we were not allowed to interact with them at all. ⁓ There no ⁓ crossing. no fraternization. ⁓ We they existed, but we never had contact with them. Okay. So when you got there, did they have a whole like in processing, like, you're new here. Yeah.
Sal: No fraternization. like a reception.
Ryan: Tell us about that. me down to a room in the basement. They had a bunch of bins of their clothing. had to strip, do all ⁓ things and then put on their clothes and all my clothes got thrown away. Okay. When, in series, they gave them like a, I think called them a hope, like a hope or something like that. pretty much like a sponsor, like a person that had been there for a while. They kind of go through the rules and like to know. ⁓ Were given anybody like that? I didn't get anything like that. I did get like a binder with all the rules, essentially. Good thing I knew how to read. But yeah, it was basically just like a list of rules. But I think I was ⁓ so... shocked. So what were some of the rules? No talking, no touching. You talk at all? No, we had asked permission to speak.
Sal: So did they give you a reason as to why you were there, like an explanation at all? ⁓ Like when you first got there, I'm sure that told you like, hey, this is the reason why you're here and this is what this place is.
Ryan: like as far as the people or my dad. So hard to remember ⁓ just it was so long ago, but I.
Sal: Yeah, so long ago.
Ryan: As time got on, were certain things in the therapy and stuff that they would say that made me believe that that was the reason that I was there. But they didn't give me like a justification, really. As far like the adult supervision was concerned, they didn't really talk to us like we were people. If that makes sense. How they talk you? Like we were animals. So like ⁓ How was the faculty there? Were they all males? Were they men women? There were men and women, yeah. All different ages. Honestly, you could pick up 10 people from Walmart and that would be the staff. is an academy of some sort, right? It's framed that way. It's licensed that way somehow, funded way. Do you feel like there were any teachers there? ⁓ No. ⁓ one the other things is there was no structured learning. Obviously because most, was the youngest person there. Okay, And was no like assigned, there was no classes or anything. They really just had like workbooks and they're like, do the workbooks. So nobody taught me anything. So when I talk about like my education, like I myself ⁓ all of elementary and high school. there was no, nobody like sitting and helping me like. do math problems. I really genuinely just had to figure it out. So you mentioned therapy too, in therapy sessions. Were those actual therapists? No.
Sal: And was there a goal? What was their goal with the therapy sessions? What were they trying to get you to level up to or in their eyes?
Ryan: It was psychologically trying to break you down so that they could build you up in the way that they wanted you to be. So they- sergeants. It was, was, it was, okay. So one of the rules was we weren't allowed to touch. was no physical contact. You couldn't give someone a hug. couldn't give them a high five. Like it was, we weren't allowed to touch. But in, ⁓ the group therapy, it was like, they'd all be sitting in a circle and one person would go into the middle of the circle. and they would say something. One that sticks with me in particular is like... Like, my mom doesn't love me, like that's why she tried to kill me, like I deserve to die, I'm the devil, like things like that. you agreed with the things that everybody would be saying at you, like people, would all be like screaming, screaming, sorry. ⁓
Sal: No, you're fine.
Ryan: Take it down. You're doing great. they would all be like screaming these things at you. Like you don't deserve to be loved. And again, it's not just an adult who's saying these things. It's all of these people who are your peers because you have to participate. And if you don't participate, then it's the whole palms up, palms down, palms together, palms apart, palms up. had to go sit in a separate room and do that if you didn't participate. So like you were forced to say these things to other people, which again, is like a whole nother thing of. Psychological torture because I don't want to say these things about somebody But you had to and until you until you agreed to you admitted that I'm the devil Like I deserve to die my mom like nobody loves me then They'd all give you a hug and that was like there was very few moments that we were allowed to Again, it was like psychological torture. I almost feel like you have to accept lies about yourself in order to get any positive contact. Wow. was. No, go ahead.
Sal: Did you ever feel like you were compartmentalizing it in some sort to, know, like a survival mode where you were like, okay, I'm just going to tell them what they want to hear, but I don't believe this or like, was it? ⁓
Ryan: So I because I was so young. I think that probably worked for a lot of people, but I think because of how young I was, I definitely believed a lot of the things that I had to convince myself about myself. I had to believe that they were true. And I think it took a lot of unworking and un-
Sal: and didn't have an organically.
Ryan: unbelieving those things about myself to be okay with it. But I think a ⁓ of the survival of it was compartmentalization ⁓ a certain point. I you had to to be able to want get up in the morning. ⁓
Sal: Yeah.
Ryan: What were some of the other rules? Like describe the sleeping arrangements. You share a room? What was that like? Yeah, it was one room with a bunch of bunk beds. how many ⁓ beds in a room? 10, 15 maybe. So privacy was over. there's no door on ⁓ the So, was ⁓ going into that too. You said initially that you had to get strip searched when you got in, which is, you're seven years old. Yeah. And then even in the series, it shows that there were no stall doors on the bathroom. So you had to go to the bathroom in view of faculty. that how it was for you? How long were you there? 11 years. 11 total years. you're entire, so from seven to 18.
Sal: is. your entire childhood.
Ryan: Yeah. Holy shit, Amanda. So in the series, were like the one girl, she was talking about how, were there cameras there? there rooms without cameras?
Sal: So well.
Ryan: I don't think so. Maybe like hallways. Because there was one girl who kind of gave her testimony that they witnessed there was one kid who got, he was getting corrected and they took him into another room and they literally beat kid. Did type of stuff happen? how often? I would say almost daily. daily to me per se. I think after while I did anything it took to not get in trouble. But even if, I mean, you wrong around a specific staff member, mean, we all had nicknames for ⁓ certain people who you couldn't do anything right. A girl picked a hangnail and she got in trouble for self-mutilization and got. The shit kicked out of her. So, mean, yeah. Now they, did you get demerits or anything? We have that per se. Okay. So how was it like, like how that, was there an award process at all? Like reward? The only reward that I actively remember is they had like Nutter Butters. They would give you at dinner if you were extra good. Yeah, essentially. But other than that, it was really just like the ⁓ who got to then be sort of like an assistant in charge to the faculty.
Sal: be heard.
Ryan: Um, cause I, I eventually got to that point, obviously, as I, as I got older and you just essentially are taking on all of these unpaid labor tasks of like doing laundry and cooking and getting other people in trouble, which is again, the whole. mean, you raised yourself. Was there, go ahead.
Sal: Was there like a hierarchy with kids there that were like trustees almost like they were just out be like the goody two shoes or should I say like just try to get everybody else in trouble?
Ryan: Yes. Yeah. You had to be really careful about what you did around certain people.
Sal: So you had to be careful constantly minding your surroundings with the faculty and then also with your peers. And So that's.
Ryan: So hyper vigilance has been like a state for me, even ⁓ into adulthood, which I mean, helps in policing for sure. yeah, it ⁓
Sal: What was, so like, was there during the days, I'm sorry to speak out of turn, what were the parts of your day, should I say that? What were the things that you would look forward to? Was it just like sleep?
Ryan: We had an hour where we were able to read. ⁓ And was like the highlight of my life. And books still now like super, yeah, super, super essential to my life. And ⁓ as kid, I mean, that was everything, And it got that point. mean, there was a ton manual labor and stuff that we would have to do. ⁓
Sal: escape. Right. That's everything. That's your imagination.
Ryan: And doing that every day over and over again for forever, essentially what it felt like forever, is I would just make up stories in my head and to, I don't know, break up the monotony of I guess. I'm still beside myself on how you gave yourself an entire education. then, because were there until you were 18 years old. You were an adult at that point. Yeah.
Sal: 11 years.
Ryan: And so you gave yourself a sufficient enough education to be eligible to go to college with no help? I will say that my SAT score did save me. did incredibly well on my SATs. Okay. Then were you at least able to take those when you there? Well, no, not while I was there. ⁓ so you took it on your own afterwards?
Sal: So there was no attempt wing you guys off of this life and then to set you guys off on a course.
Ryan: No, there weren't. I mean, I'm sure there were people who probably cared in the time since I've been I've had people like reach out to me when I'm back when I had a Facebook of like, I remember you and I wanted to do something and I'm sorry that I couldn't and things like that. But nobody did anything. Nobody tried to help or try to make things better. ⁓
Sal: Right. Was there attempts to escape while you were there?
Ryan: ⁓ gosh, yeah. But it's in the middle of nowhere. Where are you going? No, I mean, ⁓ specifically remember being like woken up in the middle of the night because two girls tried to run away. And apparently they ran away. Everybody told us that they couldn't be found. And the rumor was that they just died out there. Again, it's it's miles and miles of wilderness. ⁓ They came back. ⁓
Sal: I don't know, I'm
Ryan: So I, and I've never been able to track them down on any kind of social media or anything. you've looked. I've looked, yeah. And I've asked other people who I've gotten in contact with and yeah, there's, nobody knows.
Sal: Bye bye. there any kind of like outreach for you guys that kind of did full investigation to at least ⁓ name the names that were there and then kind of breaking you guys in together ⁓ or a kind of movement?
Ryan: So unfortunately, unfortunately not. There was, like a Facebook group that had a bunch of people from a bunch of different similar places, where people were like trying to get in contact with each other. but, but nothing, nothing super successful. Okay. ⁓ Were there phase lines there? ⁓ did you, did graduate to different phases to where maybe you had more?
Sal: freedoms.
Ryan: Yeah. So I know that's how some of those places were, but not where I was. So walk us through a typical day. What would a typical day be like there for you from the time you woke up? The lights turn on. You have 10 seconds to get out of your bed. So somebody came in. Somebody came in and turned the lights on. So the door was locked at night. Our shoes were kept outside that way. If somehow you managed to escape, you did. Yeah. Um, you had to get up, make your bed, hospital corners. I mean, not that you had that much stuff, but everything had to be pristine and whatever little property that you had. mean, it was all their property technically, but everything had to be like perfect to make sure all that's perfect. You'd stand at the end of your bed, wait for somebody to come in and prove it. Um, you go to breakfast. which you're walking with your hands behind your back, mean, military style parade rest. Yeah. Um, with your head down and you're like following, I don't know what you call it. Yeah. Like the left foot or if you're walking like that, um, you have a certain amount of time to eat. Um, then they had like PT, I guess you can call it. Um, they'd make us run around.
Sal: Redress. cadence.
Ryan: this field in circles and do pushups and things. And then it was like manual labor, which they had a lot of animals and things. It's like showing cow shit or mucking out stalls. It's prison camp. We like branded, we branded cattle at one point. Rocky Mountain oysters. got tricked into eating some of this.
Sal: Jesus fuck.
Ryan: Yeah. I mean, pulling weeds, raking, shoveling snow, depending on the time of the year, things like that. then, yeah, we had to sit and do our workbooks.
Sal: you allowed to say what state this was in?
Ryan: It was in Utah.
Sal: Okay.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, it was not great. Yeah, had, yeah, a bunch of manual labor, doing textbooks. was religious therapy. it things or was it?
Sal: What kind of religion?
Ryan: Yeah. Mormon. But there was also, mean, I think traditionally, or maybe it was just these specific kinds of Mormons. They also read the Bible. So there was a lot of. A lot of biblical studying. Yeah. And then I mean, I had like quiet time, although we were always quiet. And then you have dinner and you go to bed.
Sal: Okay.
Ryan: How was the food? Awful. Awful, awful, awful. They feed you three times a day? Yeah, but it awful. People I've contacted since then, we still make jokes about some of the... Like it was so bad. ⁓ How you feel about nutter butters today? I will not touch them. I mean, also I try to be healthy. ⁓ I that jokingly. I'm just trying to lighten the mood here. Yeah, I not touch those.
Sal: Food. Ryan, goddamn.
Ryan: So how was, was there any contact outside of the facility? So they allowed us once a week to write letters home. According to my dad, he never received anything. I don't know if that's true for everybody. I don't know if my dad just never. What about phone calls or anything? No phone calls? No. So for 11 years you never talked to your father. That's crazy.
Sal: starting to get to. Sorry. So ⁓ with attempts to escape, were there people attempting to harm themselves to end it? That was my next question. Yeah.
Ryan: Yes. Yeah. Pretty often. did they have like somebody like awake at night watching everybody? say awake, but they'd have someone ⁓ in the room. Yeah. ⁓ had like a bed that wasn't a bunk bed where they would. It was usually a female. Okay. Hopefully. ⁓ they let you have like shoelaces or anything? No shoelaces? I mean, our shoes were kept outside. So.
Sal: started here. Like on guard. Like a roving guard or something.
Ryan: If we had enough time to be able to take our shoelaces off of our shoes and do something like they would, they'd be able to stop us ahead of time. But like I knew a girl who drank bleach. ⁓ my goodness. mean, the Some of them had their personal belongings in the room, and ⁓ me would steal their razors and try to break them apart. And ⁓ like the say somebody did try to harm themselves or there was a medical emergency. ⁓ anybody ever show up? if there's no, there was no medical care. I might no, wasn't. I'm sure if like someone was
Sal: law enforcement, welfare checks.
Ryan: on the verge of death, might have taken somebody to the hospital. But again, it's so far away from any major city that like... Yeah.
Sal: So when you guys were sick, did they have like a nurse's aid, like a nurse's station or you I thought to give you guys medicine?
Ryan: it not. I wouldn't say they had anybody qualified to be a nurse. They had medication, but it was very infrequently given out. ⁓ it was, you'd suck it up. Drink water. Yeah. ⁓
Sal: Cheers. Jesus. Goodness, I'm so sorry. I'm getting pretty pissed off right now.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. To your knowledge, was anyone seriously injured there? I mean, yeah, people were hurt frequently. would say for the most part, it was by the staff. I I was pretty seriously injured. I don't know if I think I might have told you this story about how we would have to push sheep on horseback. Did I tell you about that? Yeah, so there was horses there and they had sheep. And they have to go to like different parts of the property, I guess you could say. And there was no adults spoke English. There was just these two Peruvian guys. Anyway, we pushing sheep. And I got from rest of the group. But the reason that I got separated was because another girl... fell off a horse, got injured, had to ride on the back of somebody else's with her. And so she had the other horse on a lead rope. I'm maybe seven or eight at this time. I'm still pretty young. I'm on a grown horse. My horse bolts in between the two and I get like clothes lined. So I have like, like horrible fucking rope burn on my neck, but I, my horse runs off. So I'm away from the group. I don't know where the fuck I am. I don't know if I can say fuck on here. Sorry. Okay.
Sal: Yeah, you can.
Ryan: I said it when I release it as explicit. ⁓ But I got lost and separated and I didn't have any water on me. So I water from a pond. I didn't know that that wasn't something that people could do. ⁓ And I really, really, really sick. Like, when I found my way back to where everybody else was, ⁓ they would not me into the tent. Because I was that sick. Very. Yeah. still no attention, no doctor or anything. So you just had to suck it up. Maybe water at least? ⁓ Yeah, to sip on. No IVs, nothing? No. Yeah, nothing. No. ⁓ Yeah, literally slept outside. I ⁓ still remember the sound of coyotes making noise.
Sal: No affection, nobody just calling you or nothing.
Ryan: But I mean, to be fair, I probably smelled really bad. I mean, it was a small tent. doesn't justify it. So speaking of that, like you had to wear their clothes. Like what were their clothes? And were they like jumpsuits? they like, was it uniforms? It was like a collared shirt and either like shorts or a long skirt. Okay.
Sal: I don't know. Yeah, I don't care how bad you smell within that situation you're coming in.
Ryan: And like, did they give you enough of those to like change every day? Were you able to do personal hygiene every day? No? So how, like how frequently were you allowed to shower? Hopefully one today. Hopefully. Yeah. No, it wasn't always successful. Okay. And it was that supervised just like the bathrooms? I mean, the setup of the room was the bathroom door. Yeah. Wish there wasn't a door. It's just... the bathroom entryway and the shower was right there. Okay. With a clear curtain. So you had a staff member watching the whole time. What was one of your biggest fears while you were there? or are you scared of the most? You can take your time or pass or... everything. I think there was a lot of things that I... that I could, I realized how much that I could endure. things that I wish happened less, probably like the sexual abuse. frequently did that happen? More so when I, the younger I was. So it off the older you got? ⁓ I'm sorry. Did you ever feel like you were never gonna get out of there? Oh gosh, yeah. I don't think, I think after a while I had no concept of what anything outside of that place was. Like that was my reality.
Sal: You'd have forgotten what it was like before.
Ryan: Yeah. I mean, there only seven at the time that you went in. Like you didn't have that much. Yeah.
Sal: That's what I'm saying. And honestly, right now, how old are you? 29. But I guarantee you probably feel like you've lived 60 years already because that must have lasted a lifetime.
Ryan: I'm 29. Yeah, some days I feel incredibly old and then some days I feel like I'm 12 because I...
Sal: Yeah.
Ryan: I feel like I really only started living at 18.
Sal: At 18. Yeah, I had a friend that got hit in the head and lost her memories from anything prior to the military. so she has no ⁓ of anything. So she's had to relearn a lot of things and kind of culture as well and kind of get up to speed. So it's kind sad to hear about it that it occurred like that with you as well.
Ryan: So was something in there that you craved or longed for the most? Like what was, now you're only seven when you get in there. So, ⁓ you know what I mean? Other like food and like, guess the love of a parent. I would say that's probably. I ⁓ wanted so badly for someone to just hold me and tell me that everything was gonna be
Sal: Mm-hmm.
Ryan: And I think. I think that's probably why it was so easy for... for the kinds of sexual abuse to run rampant is because of how badly we all wanted for someone, yeah, for someone to care about us. yeah, even though that's not... Yeah, I'm sure they use that as a grooming technique. Oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah. I think after a while...
Sal: section. Even that, yeah. It was misguided and fucking...
Ryan: you start to want fucked up as that sounds, you start to want it. Just because, yeah, ⁓ just want to feel like somebody cares about you. Just so fucked up. ⁓
Sal: Yeah, almost like a silver lining in the day or something like that.
Ryan: You were in there for 11 years. Was that the longest that you knew of? That I still know up to this day. Okay. Yeah. What was the average? Anywhere from like eight months to maybe like two, three years.
Sal: the average right there, eight months to two years.
Ryan: Yeah, I think, unfortunately. My dad had the funds to be able to keep me in there and the ability to just pretend like I didn't exist. Unfortunately, you never heard from your dad for 11 years. Like, did you think of your dad as you? It's so complicated, even like to this day. Because I. After what happened with my mom, like my mom, mom. He was the only parent that I had. so even... Before going to live with him, did you have a relationship with him? Sort of. I just kind of remember him being angry all the time. And I guess you could say angry when he was home or ⁓ not at all. So it wasn't...
Sal: At what age did you start living with him?
Ryan: It would have been like almost right before my fifth birthday.
Sal: So for two years, you your dad and then you got shipped off. And in those two years, you were afraid of him because of the fear from him always being angry. it okay? no kid is ever guilty of being anything but a kid because kids know any better. But what was his reasons ⁓ for sending off? Like, was he just couldn't deal with you or something like that? Did he ever tell you?
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. He didn't. He hasn't still ever told me per He blames everything on his ex-wife. And be fair. ⁓ so they're not even married anymore. They're not married anymore. No, that ⁓ doesn't it. I'm just saying. Essentially, he didn't want to come home to hearing her complain about me. And she... I would be in trouble for everything and anything. She would make up things to punish me for. Like it was... Yeah, I mean, she shaved my head before I went there. Which I should have... I mean, I was seven, so I couldn't really...
Sal: Like a wicked, wicked step mom.
Ryan: Rationalize something is going to happen because she just shaved my head. She said I didn't take care of my hair or something and I didn't deserve to have it. have fantastic hair by the way. Thank you. I'll let you borrow some. joked that law enforcement took our hair. He's bald too. So hopefully it doesn't take time. I wasn't, ⁓ haven't looked at bald.
Sal: Very nice. ⁓ You're gonna have to make us a wig, both of us. It did. No way, I think it's... Sorry.
Ryan: But yeah, he never really gave me a reasoning. think he's incredibly, incredibly avoidant. Like he does not like confrontation, does not like conflict. He just wants to. I mean, back then he just wanted to get off work, drink, go to bed, do it all over again. don't care, though. Like if my spouse gave me the. It told me to choose. She gave me an ultimatum. It says it's me or the kids. I'm picking the kids all day long.
Sal: Ready?
Ryan: That's what a rational person would
Sal: Tell you what, that's part the reason why being a cop means so much to you. know And I guarantee the calls that are even suspiciously close to being something ⁓ a mile from being this, you run into the end and you slam dunk that thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan: Yeah.
Sal: Did you know how old you were at the time? Like did you celebrate birthdays?
Ryan: I really we didn't birthdays. ⁓ What about Christmas anything like that? So they did do Christmas, but it wasn't Christmas. It was very religious oriented.
Sal: Christmas for you every fucking month.
Ryan: But yeah, I really had no concept of ⁓ you know, like the seasons and things. But it's like we had the calendars ⁓ anything. We ⁓ weren't allowed to have like personal notebooks or anything like that. So. Yeah, I definitely I definitely feel like I knew that. I think I think. Time ⁓ got a little blurry, but I mean, based on other people coming in. ⁓
Sal: Sure. No. Do you remember thinking to yourself like how old you are?
Ryan: Obviously, we weren't we weren't allowed to talk, but people still snuck snuck conversations and things. Yeah.
Sal: So, I the rules. did you guys have a system of communicating? Like, I would have, I would have broke the fucking rules all the time. I would have been that fucking guy. I would have, I swear to God, that's me. Like, I'm in basic training, ⁓ I was the chewy trafficker. I fucking stole bread from ⁓ the defect. I stuffed everything ⁓ where anything be stuffed and re-eaten. So, I can only imagine that was some sort of resistance.
Ryan: Mm-hmm. And you were always hangry. yeah. mean, I was very, very tiny even when I turned 18. And that was that was a struggle in and of itself because going from having ⁓ freedom to having ⁓ Freshman year cafeteria food. was bad for my health. So that's where I was kind of leading you. Like when you got out, like your dad picks you up. Like ⁓ how that like you haven't talked to the man 11 years. He shows up to pick you up. How did that go? And did he pick you up and take you home or did he pick you up and just drop you off somewhere else? I mean, drop me off. But I will say, I mean there were times after that where I got to go and visit him and the rest of my family. you really want to? Yes. think at the time, yes, think knowing. ⁓ It's so strange to think about because at the time all I wanted was family. All I wanted was like, my first, maybe my first or second time visiting, it was when my ⁓ dad ⁓ his were still together. And I remember walking into the house that was beautiful house and they all of these like professional. ⁓ photos taken of their family hung up all over the house. they ⁓ cleaning ladies and the cleaning ladies asked me who I was. And remember feeling. ⁓ Like out of place, like I didn't. I didn't belong there, like I wasn't a part of. I mean, and to be fair, I wasn't I never was a part of that family. Here's what I'll tell you, your dad did not deserve you as a daughter.
Sal: yeah, times two. You don't come to Arizona.
Ryan: Yeah, bye. Yeah, definitely made me feel pretty bad first few times.
Sal: Well, you're proof that a flower can rise from a stone, 100%, and just know that you are a miracle in itself.
Ryan: I appreciate that. So outside of the family visits, how was it for you going from pretty much institutionalized prison to all this newfound freedom? And with that, interacting with people that like discovering there were people out there that had normal lives. Yeah, so I had zero social skills.
Sal: Yeah.
Ryan: Anybody who knew me, freshman year, even like sophomore year of college, I'm sorry. was weird.
Sal: Would you still like dressing like Little House on the Prairie?
Ryan: No, no, no. So my dad gave me some money to be able to buy things, clothes and a little bit of makeup, which no idea how to put on, but I my best.
Sal: to blend.
Ryan: I'm telling you that was, that was like victory. When you say he gave you some money, did he give you enough to get by or did you, do you feel like he was buying his, forgiveness? You know, he gave, I think he gave me enough to get by for the time being. Um, mean, he, like, he bought me a phone and a computer, which I had no idea how to use either, but. Yeah, you never used a computer before, had you? Wow.
Sal: That was amazing. When you got out, were technically almost kind non-existent, did you end up getting your birth certificate, your social security? Did you end up getting records, anything?
Ryan: There are so many layers to this. Yeah. So eventually I got my birth certificate and my social security card. ⁓ but it took me a while to get like a state ID. Obviously I had to teach myself how to drive, was, yeah, you did a terrible job. I've seen her drive. I learned to drive with a backup camera. So using mirrors was not.
Sal: Right. Just learned how to drive when she became a cop. That must, ⁓ my God. ⁓ no... Ford Explorers, huh?
Ryan: was not my thing. Yeah, was a lot of things that I had to learn quickly. Yeah, ⁓ of it.
Sal: You're in a time capsule. So you're in a time capsule basically. And there was nothing to you in common. ⁓
Ryan: ⁓ Yeah. The one good thing to look forward to is a fucking nutter butter.
Sal: Fucking hero. That's what I'm saying. It's like, some point in time, did you take a dive into the past and start catching up on things that you weren't up to speed with?
Ryan: Yeah. So I, yeah, I definitely did like pop culture, tried to like Michael Jackson died while I was in there. knew who Michael Jackson was before I went in there. So I was very upset that he had died. ⁓ but yeah, there was like a lot of things that I had missed on it. like, silly, was there even a TV there for like news or anything? No. Yes. Had no concept of what was going on. People would come in and say certain things or like,
Sal: Yeah. ⁓ Right. Okay. Yeah. I'm saying.
Ryan: people would come in and like sing songs. And I, yeah, and I would like there were there was a song, I don't know if you've listened to Blink-182. Yeah. The song I Miss You. I don't remember that one. It's a good Blink-182 song. I can't You got a microphone. I can't sing. But a girl would sing it and I picked up all, so I knew all of the lyrics before I had heard the actual song. So like I knew it before I knew it.
Sal: You'll like, what the fuck's that? Yeah. If you sing it, if you sing it, we'll remember it.
Ryan: Things like that and I yeah, I definitely like binge watched a ton of like Disney Channel and things cuz you come out and watch Hannah Montana I didn't watch them I Definitely did. Yeah, there was a lot of things that I attempted to catch up on but like still now there's like Disney movie like kids movies that I have because you never got to fucking be a kid Yeah
Sal: Yeah, yeah, you got your childhood. Thanks Have dove back into it and bought yourself toys and stuff? I would have. ⁓
Ryan: So no, I haven't gone that far, do have like a thing for like dressing like a princess and yeah, ⁓ like that, but you know, ⁓ but like there are certain things that I don't know.
Sal: Hey, we'll put you in a pageant. We'll put you in a pageant. Yeah, like ballroom, like a gown and stuff. Good, good for you. Small little creature comforts like that.
Ryan: Yeah. You enjoy dressing up. Yeah, I enjoy dressing up. ⁓ Yeah, I mean, yeah. And they're like, there are some skills that I took from there. Like I learned how to crochet. Okay. It was all supervised because obviously.
Sal: Oh shit, that's a lost art. I'm not gonna say that that's warranted or should I say that that's, you know, this for that, that it's awesome that you got that out of there. Because you went through something fucking horrible. But I'm glad that you learned something while you were there at least. That was something to keep you occupied and stuff. Maybe that was fun.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you have to take some positives out of it or you just spiral.
Sal: Yeah. That's how was in the military, for sure. Like, it was really shitty all the time, until it was really funny. And I'm, like, I just remember a lot of good things. But, like, there's a lot of bad things I just forgot about. So I'm sure it's probably doesn't compare to anything that you've been through, though.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz Because I'll tell you, there are times that like even when we were just having light discussions and you would refer to something in your past, you always said it jokingly, like you would just stomach it and just push it down. ⁓ would suffered through it. So like you weren't shy about it by any means. But I think because initially when I was free, I felt so much shame that I didn't tell people. Like I would not talk about it because I held this shame of like all these people are normal and I'm messed up, like something is wrong with me. Because I still had all of that psychological indoctrination of like I'm bad, like something is wrong with me, I don't deserve to. You don't believe those things now, you? No. No.
Sal: Are there ever intrusive thoughts like that though?
Ryan: Yes, absolutely. don't believe them about myself now, but I definitely still have intrusive thoughts of, especially like, I mean, I'll mess up something little and I will just, yeah. Well, I mean, that's, I mean, you can just, that can be as simple as just being a perfectionist. definitely, yeah. Yeah.
Sal: You just beat yourself up. ⁓ But that's what they taught you to be. That's all they taught you. Everything had to be dress right, dress, everything had to be perfect. No complaints, just do. Shit. I like that. Scarlett character on Marvel Universe, that black widow? Yeah, that's you, you're the black widow. ⁓
Ryan: Yeah, Black Widow.
Sal: Did they teach you guys how to fight at all? No.
Ryan: She is? No. I mean, I don't think they would let us because then we'd probably be able to fight back a little bit better.
Sal: Did you guys fight, like the kids fight each other? ⁓ I would have beat up those fucking snitches.
Ryan: No. I mean, not really. People would like get each other's face, but I think everybody was scared of what would happen if things got worse. So how do you think that of this has affected your overall And I this from a perspective of like, do you wanna be a parent someday? Do you wanna have kids of your own? ⁓ That's a hard, a hard question. I haven't wanted to have kids and it's not because I think that I would be a bad parent anything like that. I I still struggle a lot of things.
Sal: Thank
Ryan: And I wouldn't ever want to put that onto another living creature. something that I love and have brought into this world, I wouldn't want to cause, because even you do your absolute best as a parent, even if you try, still gonna do some damage. And I ⁓ am aware ⁓ the that still struggle with and I wouldn't want to put that on anybody else. But all parents fail. Like I failed as a parent multiple times, like time and time again. My kids will tell you. ⁓ we've had, we might've had this conversation before. I think you would be a terrific mom. don't just like, never to endure what you did. And nobody should have to endure what you did. But I think you don't those experiences.
Sal: Ryan will talk to you in the having kids. He does it with me all the time.
Ryan: turn you away from. being the mom that I believe that you are capable of being. Yeah, don't want to cry right now. So I'm going to hold off on that one. ⁓ going to circle back to ⁓ religion. You that there's a of Bible stuff there and religious stuff and it was centered around, like where are you at ⁓ right now religion? Where do you sit in that arena?
Sal: Yeah.
Ryan: It's very hard for me to... I think there's a difference between organized religion and being spiritual. I think I had so much of organized religion to me. that I have a hard time. believing in that version of how things are. Do I? I mean, I have studied the Bible. I've read the entire thing multiple times. Do you believe in God? And your answer is your answer. It's a complicated question for me. I believe, do I hope that there is something there? Absolutely. Now... ⁓
Sal: Yeah, no judgment.
Ryan: I vividly remember a period of time after in between arriving at that place, learning about religion and obviously leaving that place where I would go to bed every night and I would pray. that whatever was out there would make it stop. I just wanted to, I wanted it to stop. wanted to. And I got, I mean, I did that until I couldn't do it anymore because nothing was happening. Nothing was getting better. I... So I think a part of me has a hard time believing that that particular God could see me.
Sal: You're good.
Ryan: You're okay. could sit there and watch me get raped and watch me get abused and watch me Consistently want to die and and not like want to stop that from happening So yeah, I have a hard I have a hard time rationalizing the two because I I Want to believe that that there is reason that all of that stuff that it all happened. And I think because I never got that, that's why I got into law enforcement, because I need to make their, like, I need to save other kids. I need to make all of this pain, I need to have it mean something. God didn't cause any of that to happen to you. I think you understand that. I he's gonna use all of that that happened against you. for his good. And that's why he's positioned you where you are. You're not where you are by mere happenstance. And your choices are not always mere happenstance. I think he put something in you to put you exactly where you are now because he's positioned you there. ⁓ this is rough.
Sal: Yeah, fuck man.
Ryan: But.
Sal: me one of those motherfuckers. It's difficult. ⁓ I go through anything like what you went through. I went through a very traumatic childhood with a lot of physical abuse. And in no way does it hold a candle to what you went through. But I will tell this, though, that I am not a fucking cop to fucked with when it comes to kids.
Ryan: Get one too.
Sal: Like I will fucking tackle those calls and stay seven, eight hours after my shift and not claim any of it on overtime. And I will slam dunk that shit so hard and I'll scream at the top of my lungs with great success and don't care what comes after. Like I don't care. ⁓ feel no remorse for being that rude, for being that mean, or for going those distances. And that same... affinity for that job is inside you and I can see it. And like, you are now fucking ⁓ tool for God and you're gonna pierce a lot of fucking hearts that are doing evil. Know that. Know that. like you said, you're trying to make it count for something and I see it.
Ryan: You, uh, outside of, uh, I'm gonna try to lighten the topic here. Yeah. Um, outside of law enforcement, what are some of your hobbies? The gym. Okay. So that's kind where I wanted you to, you went from being this scrawny little kid. Uh, you, you.
Sal: Sorry, I just had to say that shit.
Ryan: had this newfound freedom. discovered college, discovered food, ice cream, you got to eat again. Ice cream. You had a soft serve. Oh yeah. They had a soft serve ice cream machine though in the cafeteria. That was dangerous.
Sal: ⁓ my God, Mexican food, Mexican food? So food, Mexican food, Mediterranean food, what's your favorite? What's your go-to? Focaccia, Ryan? ⁓
Ryan: All of it. I love Mexican food. I love tacos. tacos. ⁓
Sal: That's good stuff. That's awesome.
Ryan: But then you found the gym. You went on to become I don't know what the acronym is for the bikini fitness. What is it? The IB? Did you you did some of those competitions, right? Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wellness, though, not bikini. OK. I mean, it's it's just a different division. Yeah. Yeah. Lower body focused came out of Brazil. So it's very much like what's the acronym? ⁓ it MPC? ⁓
Sal: NPC? illness. Yeah, it's got a little bit more muscle to it,
Ryan: What's the other IFBB? Yeah. Yeah. NPC goes into the IFBB. You have to get your pro card to go into the IFBB. Okay. So. you competed last year, right? Year before. ⁓ you competing again anytime soon? Yes. Hopefully ⁓ been freed up to have some more time to be able to work out with a recent promotion. So. That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you. So.
Sal: There's IFBB, MPC, there's a couple of them. Nice. Congratulations.
Ryan: Looking forward to that. I would like to because I miss doing it. Yeah, I did it. Like a show back to back pretty much for the first like three years that I did it. then I just didn't have the time for it anymore. So what made you kind of fall in love with fitness? You you never picked up a weight until you're an adult. Yeah. Yeah. There's something about being able to control what you can control. I like that whatever effort I put into the gym, I will directly receive same thing with like my diet. Like no other variables control that. It's all up to me. I love that. Having the discipline. Yeah, having the discipline. And also just being able to be strong, stronger than some men, which is nice. To make you feel good. Yeah, it does.
Sal: ⁓ yeah.
Ryan: Yeah.
Sal: Did you get into any martial arts or any MMA? Anything I think?
Ryan: ⁓ I've been, I've been doing some jujitsu, but that's, that's about it. I'm not, I'm not good, but I'm yeah, I I'm working on it, but it's, a relatively new interest to me, but I'm, I'm working on it. try to, I try to balance. Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. I do that. I do some yoga. You got to kind of mix it up. she's being modest right now. She was also one that would show up at the range with full.
Sal: Okay, very nice. Just enough to get your ass kicked. Okay. the next round of Rousey. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.
Ryan: Like our own kit set up like like the competition shooter like it's ridiculous theater. It's their own rifle fully set up fully built up. But then I couldn't couldn't call with it because we'll have to that part out. yeah, I had a pistol brace on it and it's so it's not technically an SPR, but it's against policy. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, it was a bad ass.
Sal: G code or what are we rocking? You got your own guns then? Yeah? ⁓ well, you still have it, so that's a thing. That's awesome. So yeah, I can tell. So you pick up law enforcement after college. How many years did you go to college?
Ryan: I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Yes. Four. ⁓ So there a there was a break in between ⁓ when I college and before I got into law enforcement.
Sal: Okay,
Ryan: If you were to carve out the rest of your career right now, the rest of your life, what would your life look like five, 10 years from now? I would like to still be doing this until I can do it anymore. Eventually, I would like to do something more SVU related. I think I'm passionate about a lot of things when it comes to the profession. I really just want to stop people from hurting kids. mean, stop people from hurting people. But there's something incredibly evil about about harming the people who are I they're the innocents. And that's, ⁓ in my career, I've I that people going to hurt people. It's just human nature. Like people are going to hurt other people. But if I, an adult harms a kid or somebody harms a dog, well, now you, now you have my attention. Now I'm coming for you. Yeah. So nobody very touched my dog either. She's also a dog lover. She has a Corgi named cowboy. I do. He's amazing.
Sal: Yeah. Cargy butts drive me nuts. ⁓ Little sausage, little sausage legs. Those things are awesome. I've always wanted a Corgi. I've always wanted a Corgi. I want to name him Elvis.
Ryan: I'm telling you his little butt wiggles. I love it. Yeah. He's built like a school bus. He's really cute. Wait, was he your first pet? Yeah. OK, I get it now. He's two.
Sal: ⁓ man, how old is he? man, you got a good, that's awesome.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. Man, I ain't never had a pet take care of an adult. Yeah. That's crazy.
Sal: You guys have like a pet lizard out there or anything like that that you guys fed? Nothing?
Ryan: No. So side story, I can tell this story. We sort of did for like a brief period of time. I mentioned earlier about how we pushed sheep. You were like a whole ranch fan. Yeah. I had a lot of skills. ⁓ But sometimes moms ⁓ die and they'd babies. And so the babies would to be brought back. And and bottle-fed and so there was a brief period of time where there was a little like corral in front of where we slept where The lambs were put and we were allowed to go out there and feed them like it was like a giant bag of powder and we'd mix it up and and feed them and I had I had my own lamb named quasi moto Sierra has probably mentioned the story before It was a it very brief parenting that I had but uh woke up one night the middle of the night to hear coyotes ripping them apart. yeah. And then we had to go out the next morning and clean it up. ⁓ traumatizing. ⁓ broke my heart. How old were you in this app? Maybe like nine. Yeah. Cause you fell off the horse. You said you were like eight. Yeah. It was probably like nine. It was, was, it was very heartbreaking because Quasimodo was my lamb.
Sal: I would have killed another fuc- Have you written a book?
Ryan: No. You should. Well, you absolutely should.
Sal: You fucking should. ⁓ my God. We need to get you in contact with Matt. Yeah, we need to get you contact with Matt so he can tell you how to do it. ⁓ my God. Apparently incredibly easy to ⁓ facilitate all of it. But yeah, your story needs to, you need to be on like.
Ryan: I would endorse it, promote it, like whatever. Nope. Okay. Yeah, he's self-published. Like we should not be the last people you tell it to. We should have more thorough interviews and sessions and 84, we actually have 84 on YouTube. But man, you 100 % sure should write a book.
Sal: I'll tell you what, 35 people know who you are now after this. 84. Fuck yeah, see that? at that. Yes. my God. Yes. Man, we had to.
Ryan: I think this was a first step for me. Yeah. Yeah. But I might get...
Sal: That's amazing. Big step. Big fucking step. But it's, how do you feel getting it out? Like telling...
Ryan: You were nervous coming in here. I definitely was. I knowing it was you was it made it a little bit easier because again, we've talked about stuff and I felt I felt more comfortable talking to you about it. I'm like her adopted father. Yeah. I need one. Grandpa is what she calls me. Grandpa. No, I stop talking to you you called me Papaw.
Sal: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that roll a lot. Happy Papaw. Papaw Ryan. Papaw Ryan.
Ryan: I think I have told you, Papua, a times. You have, and I just tried to ignore it and go, move on with my life.
Sal: Hahaha!
Ryan: Yeah, I think knowing that it was you who I was talking to definitely made it easier. I think especially getting into this profession, there are times when I've been on calls where I've said things about my life to kids that I've been trying to talk down from doing something to hurt themselves or things like that. I think... being able to use experiences to potentially help other people. It's fucking powerful, Amanda. have like, you can't just look at your experiences as they 100 % were all traumatic, ⁓ the edge that it gives you the foresight and the insight ⁓ help others is, man, ⁓ don't think you realize the amount of power that you have. And so you should write a book.
Sal: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is. It could be a gift. It could be a tool. Yeah.
Ryan: You should do something like crying right now again. This is great. I'm going to get judged on YouTube. I think I say nothing about her. They're like, man, Ryan is a CC. I got feelings, y'all. ⁓
Sal: Yeah. Rhymes of a. If you don't shed a tear while listening to this story, then you're fucking... you're sick.
Ryan: But how do you feel now? Like you said you felt okay, you felt better knowing it was me, but how do you feel now that you've told some of your story? I think there's always going to be a part of me that fears being judged.
Sal: Judgments on everybody else.
Ryan: Yeah. And I understand that. think there's just, I think I spent so much time living with that shame. Yeah, that I think I'm always going to feel that to some extent. Even though like rationally I can say like, nobody should have had to through that and no kid should ever have to experience any of those things. I don't give myself the same grace that I give to other people.
Sal: It's like an embarrassment.
Ryan: And I'm at something that I'm working on ⁓ is just being able to allow myself.
Sal: Mm-hmm.
Ryan: I guess to feel... Do you do daily affirmations or anything? Self-affirmations or... Not necessarily, but I've tried. I think... I think the thing that's probably helped me the most, honestly, is being around my friends who have kids. I mean, I have friends who have kids who are similar in age to how old I was. And being able to look at them and there is nothing that they could do or nothing that they could say that would ever make them deserve any of the things that I went through. think that allows me to kind of give myself like a little bit of grace. Yeah. It's just unlearning all of the psychological indoctrination of like took a long time for them to instill those thoughts into me. So ⁓ know it's going to take even more time to genuinely all of that out of my head. And then intrusive thoughts are real thing. They happen to all of us. There are times to this day that I have intrusive thoughts that I'm like, nope, that is a lie. ⁓ So ⁓ going speak truths over myself. ⁓ I try to remind myself that it's okay. I'm allowed to make mistakes. You are. That I'm a human and I don't have to be perfect. I mean, that's, I don't if I ever told you about the reason for this tattoo that I have. So there was a book that I read while I was there, but also that I own now and I've read probably a hundred times. It's called East of Eden. It's by John Steinbeck. And there's a quote in there. It says, now that you don't have to be perfect, you can be good. I have, be good tattooed on ⁓ arm as kind of just like a reminder that I'm allowed to be human, but I'm actively making the choice to ⁓ to be a good one ⁓ that I don't have to be perfect. There was only one perfect person that ever walked the face of this earth and we crucified him. So I think you definitely warranted to give yourself some grace.
Sal: Thank
Ryan: It's a work in progress. you're doing great. Amanda, can't express enough how absolutely fucking proud I am of you. To sit here ⁓ and to tell your story. We have guests all the time that they'll come on they'll be like, you know what? I don't anything interesting in my life. And I told Brittany just the other day, our past guest, like, who are you to judge whether or not your life was interesting? and they worry about how they're going to sound on the microphone or how they're going to appear on video the judgment others have, but you sat here and did it and you are vulnerable and... You need to look at that from a place that you had absolute power and that was amazing. I'm super proud of you. I'm honored that you here and you shared your story with us and you allowed us to share your story. I just hope we did it justice.
Sal: Christ fully. Yeah, thank you so much. I'm just... It's hard to get me to shut up, but you did.
Ryan: I appreciate you guys having me.