Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Hello and welcome to the Bee Formers Flow Driven CEO podcast where we are reshaping life, leadership, and business from the inside out. today I am welcoming from the hours of the morning, Bettina Tornatora in Scotland. Welcome to the show, Bettina.
Bettina: Hey, nice to be here.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Nice to be here. Yes, I th I I'm sure everyone was expecting a Scottish accent and yet you are originally Melbourne, Australia, and have been residing in Scotland for now two years. Have you picked up any accent at all, Bettina?
Bettina: Mm, I don't think so, but I keep saying to my friends, if I describe something as a something, I'm describing something small, I'll know I've transitioned.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: one. And when I say early hours of the morning, it's not that ⁓ I mean it's it's early enough. It's six AM. So kudos to you for coming and doing a podcast looking absolutely gorgeous at six AM. I said to you before, I don't think I'd be looking as gorgeous as you are at at six AM. And you know, said you're a a morning, early morning. What's the chronotype for it a an early morning? I can't remember the chronotype.
Bettina: Depend it depends on who you talk to, but I I'm just a morning human. it just works for me and my w my day works better. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Yeah. I'm a morning person. I just I'm not yeah, I just love that you're on on camera. I mean we all do we we do what we need to do, right? How how's your week? How's your week been so far?
Bettina: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, it's Wild Week actually, 'cause it's the first week for us in education of the s new semester. So ⁓ always, you know, you're welcoming a brand new cohort in you we're a startup college, so this is the first time we've had four cohort ⁓ cohorts campus, you know, we're a small team, you know, like any startup. You're you're you're doing a a
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, that's that.
Bettina: bazillion things and you've got new people coming in. So I'll be glad towards the of this week we're all kinda gonna, you know a little bit out flat. ⁓ But ⁓ it's exciting, you know. ⁓ So yeah.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, it's it's like that, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it is exciting. let's get on into it. You have quite the worldly family, I will say. You were just saying to me then you've got a 30-year-old and a 26-year-old, one's in New York, you know, ⁓ taking on the business world and sounds like doing a great job. And then you've got another one in Toronto with a really interesting project or or a business that he's working in. ⁓ And then here you are in Scotland and like you're all from Melbourne. I love it. I love that no one's in the one place the one ⁓ But we make these things work, don't we? ⁓ I'm gonna get started. And I ⁓ sorry, I should say a big kind hello to all the listeners out there, wherever you are in the world, had having some great conversations. Again, this one is going to be ⁓
Bettina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Super fascinating. Bettina's got a story to share. I wouldn't let Bettina share the story with me when we met a few weeks ago. So can you just hold on to that so that I'm like everyone else here listening firsthand to journey in terms of you are a business leader, coach, and program leader of the Scotland College of Chiropractic. And you bring more than 25 years of entrepreneurship. You have still got your business Lux Consulting, and can tell us a little bit more about that as we go. And your leadership experience to developing people, teams, and new p possibilities in healthcare education. had a really important ⁓ point and it emerged, Bettina, when you began questioning established approaches to educating ⁓ professionals and exploring what a more contemporary model could possible for the next generation of practitioners. ⁓ With s I I I can't wait to talk to you about education, the old model and this this contemporary model that everyone is not everyone, a lot of people are talking about. you're helping develop Scotland's first chiropractic undergraduate degree program and the complexity and resistance that comes with challenging established systems while while also consuming a very d next a very different next chapter of your own life. I feel like that's where the story's coming from, ⁓ the story.
Bettina: Mm-hmm.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: At the unsole of your work is a belief that progress requires a willingness to question the paradigms we inherit, whether reshaping education or imagining a more nomadic life for yourself. you're exploring what becomes possible when we when we remain open to another way. I feel like for me that's when we remain open to the unknown, when we become formless to determine what our next form shape is going to look like. Tell a bit about your journey.
Bettina: it's always it's always interesting, you know, which bit do I pick? And do know my husband and I, we're fortunate enough we met when we were in our ⁓ very early days of college and so we've been together for you know almost 40 years now. And it's really because you know, you know, I always think when we have this moment where someone says, so tell me about yourself, and I kind of go, God, which bit do I start with?
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: Because we you just do things, right? We we just operate our system. We just you know, is this a good decision? Where are we going next? What are we doing? we just go for it. And it's often ⁓ like when I say to someone, you know, my family chat is ⁓ because that's way it is, because my children live in in the US and now in Canada. And And I don't think it's abnormal, I don't think it's different, I don't think it's unusual until I start telling someone about it. Which and then I think, ⁓ maybe it is unusual. But you know, we're a really tight knit family. We just don't live in the same country. And, you know, that in itself, even that is also just a an outside the mould version, you know. And I actually would argue we are as close, if not closer than most, you know, we
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: a video chat almost every day, and that's not our choice as parents looking out, you know, helicoptering around kids. That's actually their choice. They've they choose the the rhythm of that connection. So you they're still the first and the ⁓ the person you call for the fantastic, and the first person you call when the world falls apart. So ⁓ you that it that's it's funny until you I'm in this moment where I go, okay, yeah, okay, where do I start? So ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No, sorry, I love the Vest I love that the Divestus office because it's it's know, sometimes you take for granted when you all live so close to one another, you just don't see each other, like or you like there's no no catch family catch-ups, you don't video. I mean, I speak to my mum every single day. I think I love it because it almost makes you closer because there's this tyranny of distance, and so then there's this this need for more connection. And I
Bettina: Usually. Yeah. And when you yeah. it's you you do put in a different kind of effort, ⁓ you and even within that dynamic, you know, you you r you cul you cultivate the relationships in a different way, because of that.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: And I tell you what, we are well organized because, you know, all got schedules. So ⁓ to coordinate when we are going to be physically in the same place. It it's done well ahead. So, ⁓ know, we've got several Christmases in a row planned, you know. but so, you know, ⁓ if I look at it, there's been so many kind of points where There was an opportunity come up, and whatever that opportunity was, it often was, know, where I was going along one path and and thought, yeah, this is the path, ⁓ then this something shows up and completely unexpected. I the the the lean into education came at that, you know, I call it the Voldemort period of Melbourne lockdown, you know, should not be named, but ⁓ was that horrific, you know, ⁓ were going to hell in a handbasket and particularly from a health yeah ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Still are, I won't lie. Melbourne's not what it was, you know.
Bettina: It is not. I visited yeah in July. I was shocked. It's not the same city. Yeah. And it was, you know, coming out of that, that, you know, somebody from actually we moved originally to Barcelona to go to to become involved in the education there. And I literally first was, ⁓ hell no. You know, we've got this perfectly ⁓ great life and heading in this lovely direction where we're finally gonna get space back and
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: It's terrible. Yeah. It's yeah. That's right.
Bettina: know, my children are ⁓ the coop and you all these things and you know, like, ⁓ so no, what you're going to do is actually uproot your entire existence. You're going to sell off most of what you own and then you're going to go and, you know, ⁓ take a of suitcases and move to the other side of the world to a city that you've never been to. In fact I'd never been to Europe when we moved there. we ⁓ Jim had been when he was a child. ⁓ we our origins there. My ⁓ my father was and my mother was German. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: ⁓ wow.
Bettina: my husband's parents are Greek. And so, know, family origin there but never really, you know, travelled outside of Australia, but holidays is very different. And so we, know, ⁓ took up this and and ⁓ I saw it as an answering of a question, which is really It was a question we'd been asking. We'd been coaching and consulting for fifteen years and even getting into that was a very odd experience because again, no, practice is going well. We're a hands on co practice. It was great. We had a great team. We took our great team to an event and someone said, Hey, I think you should be coaching. ⁓ we were like, Excuse me? What? ⁓ And I cannot fathom my life.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: What do you mean?
Bettina: without it. Like it's just it it just mind boggling to think of the before and after that moment. And so was was those kind of pivot points where you think, okay, ⁓ I've been a question in my coaching working with, ⁓ you know, graduates, I kept saying, pulling them out. They're drowning. Why? What's happening upstream that can't see? Is it in their education? Is it something that they're being taught or not being taught that means that they're failing in practice? unfulfilled as human beings. And having to not create, you know, what we thought we'd be doing was enhancing, but we actually having to build from the ground up. And I kept asking this question: what's going on? Why is this happening? Why are there so many? And
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I mean
Bettina: you know, I believe if you ask a universe a question enough, eventually it it taps you on the shoulder and says, There's an answer, but you've got to go and find it. And so ⁓ found myself in Barcelona. sadly, because of my inexperience in education, I took on a role which was outrageous and impossible. And burnt myself learnt on beyond ⁓ exponential I literally graph wouldn't even be a graph, it would be straight up. It was it was brutal couple of years to be fair. But I can
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Especially 'cause you haven't been to Europe. You probably I mean, I don't know if you speak Spanish at all at all. Like Yeah. I was gonna say you would have had to learn pretty quickly 'cause there's just no tolerance for unless you can even like I know when I go to Spain or e Europe, there's just no tolerance for if you're not even trying. It's you just almost like ignored. So I'd hate to think what it's like in business. I mean, I've I've I've dealt with a Spanish company once before and there's just so much complexity to it.
Bettina: I do now. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ God, yeah. and I stepped into a bilingual school and ran this intern clinic, is all in Spanish. So, ⁓ you know, immediately wasn't just having a conversation to buy a cup of coffee, I was taking patient histories with students. So, you I had learn real and I was fortunate I I had a couple of other Latin languages under belt so I was building on a fairly solid foundation so it accelerates it pretty quickly once you get a couple of Latin ones know there's a lot of similarity the tone is similar so yeah my I could understand it very quickly so and like languages so that was no no issue but yeah was it was steep I came out of that saying I'll never put myself in that situation again. I'm not gonna burn myself like that again. and I reali I took six months to just regroup. in time, because that was my first step into formal education, I came saying, you know what, I actually kinda like this. it is very different to being, ⁓ you know, in in your own business, in your own structure, dictating own your kind of own rules. but I knew that there was some back information that I really was craving to to be better at that sp in that space. And so I up do a degree and I actually just graduated a month ago. ⁓ so ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Congratulations. Such exciting.
Bettina: Yeah, thank you. So yeah, so added a masters of education in and that was great. I mean I chose a place ironically I didn't know I was coming to Edinburgh at that time, but I chose a university here in Edinburgh and the part of the reason I chose it is two reasons. One I could do it remotely. And two is that when I looked at their assessment, I could do all of their assessment based on my context. I wasn't like learning about some ⁓ thing that I was never going to use. So for me, I was doing a module and implementing immediately. Which was awesome and I could apply my dissertation at the end to co practice, which was really exciting because I feel like it really gave me such a strong foundation. And now I can have, you know, intelligent conversations with people who've been in education. so ⁓ then coming here was again necessarily something I I we'd be doing. We were in that phase in that six months of saying, Okay
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Incredible.
Bettina: what now. We had a sense it wasn't coming back to Australia, we feel like that chapter.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I was gonna ask you that. Was there any kind of like just I'm just gonna pack it all in and head home? Like you've pretty much sold everything off. You like or was it just
Bettina: No, not it was you know, it's always there, our passports are there, you know, from there. Like there's always it's always going to be a sense of home. also, you know, as you said, my my children are all in the north ⁓ the two of them are in the northern hemisphere. So you staying in the northern hemisphere and being a day trip, not two days to get home, to see them, there's not a pulling us back there. So, it's We chose because we we met early, we chose to have our children quite early. so we didn't do what a lot of Australians do and have their European trip and that, you know, the long haul travel. We did lots of internal local travel. we didn't do that. So we kind of feel like we're now catching up on that, you know.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, tell me.
Bettina: Yeah, like literally next weekend, which sounds very kind of bourgeois to say as an Australian, you know, say on next weekend I'm speaking in Germany which sounds like, Wow, but it's like literally an hour and a half away. you know, it it's a different lifestyle. Yeah, you you can I couldn't used to it when the ⁓ you'd get a Monday morning with the students in Barcelona and you know, it'd ⁓ how was the weekend? and they'd say, ⁓ yeah, I'd go I went home and I'm looking at them like you come from Rome.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: And then my cause my Australian brain goes, How did you possibly get home and back in a weekend? But of course
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I know. So crazy isn't that we're so far away from everything. I mean, I know I've just been recently travelling and I go again on Monday and it's just like wild to think we really are far away from the rest of the world.
Bettina: Yeah. You don't realise it till you and you don't realise that everybody else is close together. so
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I know, I know. how did you get then so you've you've taken your six months off, you're working out what to do next. W what like ⁓ then you've already obviously already then s ⁓ that you're studying through through a college in Edin Edinburgh. How did then role come about? Like what happened there?
Bettina: Yep. well I I knew the college is even though been in existence for four years, it's been in the process has been quite a long one and as it when you start up anything like that and and you know, soon we we know that it it's just that step step you ⁓ regulators and all the accreditations all that stuff, it takes a lot of work. so I knew of it because ran an event once a year which was a fundraiser for it and they had me over to speak twice. ⁓ I was so familiar, was familiar with the people and they approached when they knew that I wasn't working and that I resigned from the Barcelona College and said, Hey we've got this role coming up. ⁓ Would you interested in applying? ⁓ And so did and know here we are. The rest is kind of history. and it and look, know the the foray into education, it if you've ⁓ lived and worked entrepreneurially you've run your own Business. into education is I I swear, but it's look, it messes with your head because it's a very different animal ⁓ and cautious I say this. It's a system that doesn't it's broken, but it doesn't that's the system doesn't know it's broken. ⁓ And so it's this
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: almost there's just so much wheel spinning that and you know it's like you can, you know, in a for me when you make a as ⁓ a business person or an entrepreneur and you go, right, that's where we're going. ⁓ Let's let's back to today. What do we need to do? What are the steps? How are we going to achieve this thing that we want to achieve? And we you do you try and do the the most direct path, right? You're not gonna dilly dally off off track. You try and stay on the path as much as you can. not really how education works. Even we know what the end product is, we know we what we're trying to create, there's so kind of masters ⁓ in that It's like how many people do we have to appease, how many rules do we have to follow, how many things do we have to do? Which what I see and one of the reasons we
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: my husband does full time with our coaching and consulting business and I was full time until I took this role on and now I just do part time. But the reason I maintain those clients one because I want a lot of them are chiropractors and they're working actively in their practices because I never want to be that educator that sits inside a education facility and has no contact with what's going on on the ground. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Date today, yeah, great.
Bettina: And yeah, so that was my one fear of stepping in was I would lose touch with the reality of the day-to-day because that constantly changing. Literally in Australia, just this week, there's been a ha a ruling hand down in terms of ⁓ working with pediatric which won't change the landscape too much, thank God. They ⁓ we you know it's well planned, but You know, that's constantly changing and that's a dynamic that the person we're working with as a running a business is got has to manage. You know, in the UK a brand new professional, a set of professional rules, you know, a code of conduct effectively came through ⁓ last ⁓ which actually again changed the dynamic for the UK chiropractors. And, ⁓ know, I wanted to make sure that we're really aware of that because we're teaching the people that are gonna slot into those systems, you know. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. It's interesting to talk about the systems in terms of in terms of the fact that you you into a broken system and it it like literally tossed you out and you were burnt out. I I was in a system that did the same. Like there's so many like if you about the traditional models of business, whether it's education, corporate, whatever, it's a system that generally ⁓
Bettina: And
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: t like tips you over the edge or i it's what causes the burnout or the archaic ⁓ archaic it is right and yet here you are back in going back into the system to to bring in more contemporary models, more I guess, a different way of approaching it. Like some people would think you're mad, like you're crazy in terms of why would you do that? And it's the same with me. Like, you know, it's funny, I I I've walked I walked away from and communications because I was just so burnt by it all. And all of a s and and more recently I'm coming back in a in different light, like what you've done in terms of and and it and I've found this newfound love for and for Positioning strategy, very different to though how I saw it previously. ⁓ ⁓ wanna make a difference and I wanna change things for the better versus ⁓ as is. ⁓
Bettina: I totally agree. Yes, being called crazy. In fact I remember my children calling me crazy and I said, ⁓ darling, that's the nicest thing you could have said 'cause, you know, God forbid I'd be normal. you know, I I've n I've always said if they ever wrote a book about me it'd be called Square Pegging Around Hole and I have this illusion that everyone can actually make a difference even you know the in I was I was just literally saying in our nightly last night I was you know, ⁓ in amongst a ⁓ week where, you pff it's just It's just a very it's like a melting pot and work alongside someone who, you know, ⁓ the stress very intensely. So, ⁓ know, it's it's it's really challenging. And amongst that, this beautiful young woman who's just started it's her first week came and and shared something about how grateful she was about the content we shared that week with her she comes from family, like she's she comes from what she's one of our what we call a Cairo kid. So she's been raised in a chiropractic family two generations. so she was like I was a little bit worried that you know I would feel out of place and you the conversations we've had and the cr and it was just I said to Jim it was like this little ⁓ shining that said, you know what? In amongst all this noise, ⁓ some someone you made a difference. And you know, spoken on so many different stages and and done so much that work ⁓ that You know, I always say it doesn't matter how big the group is, I'm speaking to one person. There's one person. Like I believe there's one person who's listening to this today who needs to hear whatever we're going to say. for me that's it calms my brain and goes, you know, it doesn't matter what happens, it'll be the right thing for that person. So, ⁓ you it's finding that spark and remembering why you do it. And in tough systems, I honestly believe the harder the system is and the more
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Right. Yeah.
Bettina: dysfunctional it is, more focused you need to be on while you're there. Because you lose that, that's when think that's what happened for me. And I really saw it. I thought, yep, I know what I'm doing. But then the noise of the system having you know in such a foreign environment.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I agree.
Bettina: that I lost that compass. so therefore ⁓ course I got burnt out because I know I was I was relying on motivation, ⁓ you know, physical exertion rather than being inspired. And when you're inspired there's infinite energy. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Absolutely. What was that like for you? Because like I mean, I if I think about ki chiropractor or any sort of form of professional, you know, whenever I've had physiotherapy or anything like that, it's almost like ⁓ s it they you play look like almost like a psychologist role as well in terms of it's it's yes, the physical issue. There's also the mental issue associated with it. And I'm sure you're all over I've got a great book around, ⁓ you what are the s the symptoms of the body, what's your soul telling you? Where I'm going with this is y you obviously burnt out. Like, did you take a step back to because I know from my own burnt out experience, like you when you're in it and you're still in that system, you know got to get out of it. You just don't know how to get out of it. And ⁓ and So there's I I don't know where I'm going with this question. There's just something there where I'm thinking about what it's like to go and see a practitioner, healthcare practitioner, for example. it might be physical, but whenever I've had something physical, I've always ended up getting like having a ⁓ psychologist type chat around mindset. And for know where I'm going with this because with burnout, the physical component is very easy to fix, really. Like that's the fastest part to recovery. It's the mental like the mental piece that's the hardest part. And it's the same with any form of injury, right? And so here you are in the depths of burnout, trying to work out what's next. So I guess my question is, how did that resonate with you? And then ta going back into the system, how are you doing things differently? Am I making sense of what I'm saying? ⁓
Bettina: Yeah. Totally, yeah, totally. know, it's funny that so so from a principle perspective, if we back to first principles, then the nervous system runs the show. And what we're doing when we find something in your body, we're just finding the interference to that nerve flow, which means that you're your brain your body effectively. And that's all that it is. removing interference so your body can do what it was born to do, which is to keep be connected. And it's really interesting when you You go into that burnout, that disconnect was really obvious to me. I was really clear that I wasn't I wasn't my body. I to function I had to just keep it was literally like this robotic place. But in the interesting thing about that for me is that that's a disempowered state it's a really shitty place to make decisions. ⁓ And so therefore the me was saying, Is it just that you really bloody tired and need Need a rest, or is it that this is the not right the place for you? Like what it you know it was very difficult to discern what the issue actually was because I was in such physical and emotional burnout. it was so I actually put myself into a container with one of my coaches, it was actually my spiritual coach, and said to her, Right, I'm not making a decision. Until we've done this month-long and container just being that we were in contact, I was doing very specific meditation, journaling, which I do anyway, but it was a very specific intention, and the question I was putting into that container was: is it I need a rest, ⁓ or is that ⁓ this is longer for me? this is actually harmful for me to stay in this environment. And so at the end of that, then made the decision to walk away. And it it interesting, you know, to to do that process, which is what I would suggest for others. You know, that ⁓ I literally to pull my own playbook out and say, hang on a minute. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Anyway.
Bettina: Hold on, we know we don't make great decisions in a disempowered, di physically depleted state. This is not gonna be great. I did that and then and knew as part of that that not only did I have to say I'm finishing, pick a date that I was finishing, but that then I was not in a place to just step into something else. ⁓ needed to c recalibrate. And so I did that. I got back into my body. I I moved my body differently, which was even that was different to what I'd done before. You know, I was like, ⁓ great, I'll be straight back into the gym. And didn't work. ⁓ because my I wasn't wasn't the same person. ⁓ just did a whole did a bunch of stuff. And so ⁓ what did differently coming into here was I don't bring my work laptop home.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Everything changes. No. ⁓
Bettina: I have my weekends. clock off. I've never been a clock watcher, right? When you're an entrepreneur, you just work, right? The work needs you just work. I actually downloaded an app ⁓ where walk in and I hit a button and says, I'm now at work. And then I hit a button when I leave and says I'm done. So Put some boundaries in because, you know, I still had, I was still studying and working up until, you know, the last, you know, four months. of course meant that, you know, my my personal time was not really personal time, it was study. But I knew what the purpose for that was and I knew there'd be an end point. so yeah, just it's really looking ⁓ I'm working and am but I'm not sacrificing. ⁓ And there's ⁓ such big difference.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Yeah, interesting. It's such a big difference. And it's such a at times. I know for myself, I was like having this very conversation last night, like 'cause it's almost like addiction work. Like we're and as an entrepreneur and like especially people with burnout, like they're high performers, high achievers, and you y my I always say this, my doctor said the handbrake will come on thick and fast. And ⁓ boy, ⁓ boy, does it duh do does it when I know I'm hitting my capacity, right? interesting that you have, ⁓ I I want to hear about this app. I think I need it, and I'm sure a lot of the listeners out there need it. It's interesting listening to you because here you are exploring a more contemporary model could make possible for the next generation of practitioners. And so when you're wanting to make fundamental inside out transformation That's that's a huge that's not just like doing the status quo. Like that's actually fundamental change. yet you set these significant boundaries. So like how do you ⁓ how you manage that? Because do you ever have moments where you just want to go like you feel like you want to pull yourself in? Like how do you do that? How do you yeah?
Bettina: ⁓ 100%. Yeah, a hundred percent. I actually having this conversation the other day and we're talking about boundary setting with the students. because students particularly as semester goes on and they get very close to exams are like drowning men. Like, you know, that aid thing when you're saving someone.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: You don't get too close to someone who's drowning because they will pull you down and stand on your head to save themselves. And and students very much, because of the pressure and the and the risk, et cetera, et cetera, they are very much like that. And I learnt very much to to I've created a moat, if you So I'm all I'm there, I'm there. And I also run student support for the college. So ⁓ that that can quite a lot. And we've got a lot of students coming into programs who are ill prepared for higher education, you know, they've been spoon fed at high school, they you know, they've been And it's not a criticism because I love parents, they all do their own best job, but we come we're now teaching the generation who were helicoptered, know, so it's a very different landscape that shape. So but I was saying to ⁓ colleague who's really struggling when they're not when they're not nice, you know, and and I said, Well, one, I'm a parent and not doesn't mean anything, it's just they're processing something. but also I've had the blessing and I see it as a blessing where I have done a spectacular faceplant with my health. And had, know, I always describe it as I've seen the abyss, I've seen what happens on the other side, I've had near death, and I know every single time that happens is because I don't stay aware of myself. And when I lose and I give more than I have
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: that I that's where I end up. And so, know, there are things that I do daily, know, Australian culture, high drinking culture. I don't I haven't drunk for years. And that's because I know what that does to my body. And I as I said, I've seen the other side. ⁓ I've the dangers of that for me. I don't care what anyone else does, to be honest, I'll pour you a drink, no problem. But ⁓ I I don't want to. Now you can imagine I've now come to, you know, even all of Europe. There it's high drinking culture.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: Scotland, forget about it. Like, you know, I've got back to people saying, I don't know if I can trust you if you don't have a drink. ⁓ Yeah, it's it's wild. ⁓ I I what the consequences of that are.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: ⁓ my gosh.
Bettina: You know, I look at it that and say, There is nothing that that is going to give me is worth it because of what it could cost me, you know? And I think those things make a difference. That's what stops me. That's what's you know, my natural tendency is just get in there. and I ⁓ that ⁓ time I've just learnt the hard way that I've got to make sure, you know, you've got to make sure you preserve it, 'cause ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Yeah, I have two. Yeah. I might Yeah. I agree. I don't think I'd ask this question before. I've got a f I've got a c a couple like three more questions and and then I'll let you get to your day. I I feel like we need a part two on ed the education system, although s although I'm mindful because you're in it. So I'm sure I can't ask you all the questions I want to ask you. But I
Bettina: You know, Yeah.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: What should I have for you when you're in the depths of burnout? I don't know if I've asked anyone this before. I I think about it myself a bit, when you reflect where where you were to where you are now and how much you've grown from a post traumatic growth perspective. it's huge. It's a it's a huge did you ever moments where you just thought you weren't gonna get better? Like did you ever think for like did you think I'm stuck in this I can't like I'm I I'm I'm ⁓ I'm I'm working on myself. Like even you doing going into your spiritual container, I did all of that. I've done all of that too. were moments where I was like, Am I ever going to find who I truly am, what I am? Like, did you ever have those moments? Because they are d deep, dark moments sometimes because you just like like you talk about, you know, even drinking culture. Like, I'm not the same person I was six months ago, let alone a year ago. And so
Bettina: Yeah, absolutely. Ooh. Absolutely. It I I think of my one of my I'm here. One of my frustrations in the spiritual world is is I see as virtue in that I often people talk about their healing and their recovery and and they'll they might kind of offhandedly talk about that.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Really interesting. Yeah.
Bettina: doubted whether this was ever gonna be, you know, whether I was ever gonna feel right again. And think it's coming more and more, but I I feel like we gloss over that part and I feel like we discount it. And I it's interesting, just recently my husband and I have been talking a lot about so one of things that we've we see, you know, when work one on one with someone, it's a very private container and they'll share things with us that they don't share publicly.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: Pains, wounds, that they're worried about. And ⁓ amazing. We've had so many over the time who have some sort of physical ailment, but they feel shame around it because we're health practitioners. You know, it's like all of a sudden you got this degree and now you're not allowed to be human. And much that gets kind of placated and pushed down and and that's a because what that means is now we have the next generation looking at the future one and saying, Well,
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: y I can't be like you. I can't do what you do. But the reality is they're only seeing the outside shell. They're not seeing those dark moments of the soul. know, the the where ⁓ literally you know, as I said, feel blessed that I've had those moments. I've had those moments where I felt like I chose to come back, where I wasn't leaving. And I'll ⁓ and and ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, not Yeah. Yes. Same. Same. Wild, isn't it? To think about it.
Bettina: It is absolutely wild. And I can't be you can't be the same after those. You just can't. I i it it's you're not impossible. It's like you shed that skin and you're is the new iteration of you. I think the difference I see and where often I lose people when I talk about this stuff that they
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Right.
Bettina: All they want is to go back what they were. And so they'll do the same things and create the same environment. ⁓ But know that they've changed. And so it becomes this hollow experience for so many. And you know, even you know, of my things when we were coming out of lockdown and people, I just want to go back to the way it was. I'm sorry, back to the way it was. There is no back to the way it was. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No, it's never.
Bettina: We everything has changed now and you are different and the quicker you acknowledge that you're different, the quicker you'll move and you'll feel better. going looking back to who you were, ⁓ that doesn't exist anymore. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Agree. Agree. I agree. And I also think there's just this opportunity to we need to unpack these this part more like because the am I going to get better? And you have this fear and it's like resistance. It's everything right. And so then you're looking around and you're thinking, Why that why is they can just carry on the way they are. So I think that's part of you then trying to fit back in. You don't fit in, you realize very you realise really quickly because the universe just keeps popping you out, back out and forward and you're like, Where are here I am again, right? I just think they're the sort of conversations need to be had. And you could argue that it's it's to education systems, corporate systems, you know, healthcare, all of that, because we've got these systems or these models That are just not necessarily conducive for how much we're evolving as as people. even this year. This year is is wild in terms of if I think about the start this year versus where we are now, it's just it's like so much has changed and yet ever like I don't know. It's it's hard to put my p my finger on it. You know what I mean? Like I just and I just think this is what Yeah, it's just this is what we need to be.
Bettina: Yeah, yeah. You're right.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Bringing more into play so that we can get to like you're talking around is the contemporary models that are required for the younger generations to get to ensure that they they flourish, ⁓ a more regenerative society versus an extractive and we need more resilience a around these younger ones as well, because like you say, this helicopter, this cotton wool, ⁓
Bettina: Yeah. It's quite scary. we trying to grapple right now. There's two things that come to mind actually. First of all, was when when I doing my la the the last degree, this master's and I was this paper, we were actually studying how people learn mathematics because it was a it you know it was a broad course and it was fascinating actually. And what I loved about it is they did a lot of personal internal reflection. Anyway, so one of papers that they were asking us to read was this it was written by a woman. ⁓ She's originally South African, she works at Stanford, Joe Bowler is her name. And she's just this think the box woman about how we approach mathematics. And her responses coming out of the fact that maths anxiety is now a thing. So ⁓ so yeah, if you talk to people, ⁓ so many people. ⁓ the challenge with is maths is the foundation stone for all of the science and technology. So if you if most education, if you don't do well.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, I had it. I didn'
Bettina: At maths at a low level, they won't promote you into, which means you get people who could be really brilliant in those spaces and innovative are never going to get there ⁓ the way that they think. So I'm reading this paper and I'm like really excited. I'm like, this sounds amazing. Well, is awesome. Like, this should be in every school. My son and I often talk about revolutionising education. That might be the next chapter. But ⁓ Anyway, I'm reading it and then I went, God, where was this paper created? Like I'm sorry, I'm looking, I'm going and look back, and and I went, my God. And I was ⁓ instantly furious, because ⁓ paper was 20 years old. And I was
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: For me.
Bettina: I was stomping up the hallway. My husband was up in our lounge in our apartment. I'm walking up the hallway and he could tell by my face. He's like, shit, what's on here? Rant, full I said, There are 20 years worth of kids who could have ⁓ not had trauma and anxiety around mathematics. There are solutions. This is the thing. We all go, what is the solution? ⁓ Well, bloody hell, these people who are ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: They have the answer and we're just frickin' ignoring them. In ⁓ the place. So that was that's so an it's just a small example, but it's one that really sticks in my mind. And a current one, literally a month ago, got have a parent university who awards our degree ⁓ just and I won't name them
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Should I'm sure there's some F bombs being dropped to and pa as part of this. ⁓ my goodness.
Bettina: Have just downloaded a new policy around assessment for courseworks, so that's where it's a written submission that goes gets uploaded. For they've now created a seven day window. So you set a deadline and say it's due on Monday. ⁓ The can submit up to seven days late with no penalty and doesn't even have to let you know. And ⁓ know, all sitting here going, right, so that's like your mortgage, right? Or your power bill or
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, you pay any late and I think it yeah no.
Bettina: You can just choose to pay seven days late. So we're actually cultivating mediocrity. And it it I literally took me a day to actually thank God the students weren't there because it was, you know, still summer here and we were just shaking our heads and going, we don't even know how to implement that. Like it's an online platform. ⁓ So
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. No. No. So the team. sorry you go.
Bettina: Go, go, no, absolutely. So yeah, very real for me at the moment about that.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, absolutely. My final question for you. Can you believe we've been in flow for forty plus forty plus minutes now? Like it's always the way, isn't it? Like I I love talking too. me one final one I'm gonna I'm gonna have a final question that I am gonna get you on at some point in the next however many months, around the revolution of education when you're in a position already to to talk about that, ⁓ in what you've been doing at the the college at. Tell me one thing. I guess I I guess I'm
Bettina: I can talk. Yeah.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Wanting to understand or get some advice for the listeners there in terms of what be one piece of advice you would give around navigating the complexity and the resistance that comes with challenging established systems? So, like I'm I'm here now, I'm a listener and I'm in a position ⁓ and ⁓ know needs shaping and shifting, gonna call it, and yet there's all complexity, there's all this resistance. ⁓ What what would be one piece of advice you would give that you, the person that wants to be part of this change, doesn't get stung by the system and end up in a burnout state like you have, I have? What would be one piece of advice you'd give them?
Bettina: I think it really comes down to you need to choose you put your energy and think spending more time thinking about that rather than spinning your wheels. because often think know where the point of entry is, but it's often not And when you want to make change, if you're just doing the same thing, like you're still working the same way, the same system, ⁓ then you often miss opportunities I think at the end of the day ⁓ a human in a system ⁓ have to be able to manage your internal environment and not add meaning to the fact that the system's resisting or that even a person's resisting or that there's a pressure there for that, ⁓ that single individual's just doing their best in the moment and that really all can control is your internal environment. And so if you can manage that and then take time, because if you keep that ⁓ then take the time to say, where can I have the best impact, it's surprising what you can do. So for that's I don't know another system when you go into a really complex system to do it. And I think it's like any personal growth, you know, often when we s we run workshops and retreats and people say, How do I even explain what happened here? I'll we'll often say, you don't have to, just live your life as an example. Not because it's an example, but people will eventually come to you. Yeah. ⁓ will come to you and say, what are you doing differently? ⁓ is it you're getting that person to do that or ⁓ that? Or why are you getting this opportunity and it's just because you're controlling what you can control and doing what you can?
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, maybe laugh as an example. Yeah, that's great.
Bettina: Not because you're breaking a system or trying to create any resistance. It's just control the internal environment first. Get that right, ⁓ wisdom will come on where to make the change.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Love it. ⁓ Bettina, what a great conversation. My goodness, we could talk for hours. I feel like I could be looking at the screen and next thing it's five hours has gone by and you and I have like all solved all the problems of the world. How do we find out more about you, Bettina? How do we find out more about the sex Scotland College of Chiropractic but also Lux Consulting?
Bettina: All the problems. Yeah. ⁓ the usual way is mostly social media. We actually d we ⁓ our w website for Lux Consulting crashed ⁓ a year ago and we realized no one was going there anyway. so if you put Bettina Tornatora, I think I'm the only one on on any socials, you'll find me. So you the all the usual Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, I'm in there. and you know, know people find when they need us. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's there's a bit of a story there in terms of having a website and ⁓ my gosh, you've got to have all of this. Yeah, okay. Okay, you know Well Bettina, thank you so much for your time. I've thoroughly enjoyed connecting with you and and having this great conversation. you the happiest of happy Fridays. And of everyone on nine eleven today, ⁓ you know, especially in the United States. It's yeah, it's I think we get good perspective when we ⁓
Bettina: Yeah. It'll come back eventually. You're well. Amazing.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: we think about these moments in in history and and time, don't we? And it just it does remind you about what's important and coming right back to family, friends, connection well. So Bettina, thank you so much. And ⁓ Thank you. Take care.
Bettina: You're so welcome. Thanks for doing great work. Take care.
Bettina: Hey, nice to be here.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Nice to be here. Yes, I th I I'm sure everyone was expecting a Scottish accent and yet you are originally Melbourne, Australia, and have been residing in Scotland for now two years. Have you picked up any accent at all, Bettina?
Bettina: Mm, I don't think so, but I keep saying to my friends, if I describe something as a something, I'm describing something small, I'll know I've transitioned.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: one. And when I say early hours of the morning, it's not that ⁓ I mean it's it's early enough. It's six AM. So kudos to you for coming and doing a podcast looking absolutely gorgeous at six AM. I said to you before, I don't think I'd be looking as gorgeous as you are at at six AM. And you know, said you're a a morning, early morning. What's the chronotype for it a an early morning? I can't remember the chronotype.
Bettina: Depend it depends on who you talk to, but I I'm just a morning human. it just works for me and my w my day works better. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Yeah. I'm a morning person. I just I'm not yeah, I just love that you're on on camera. I mean we all do we we do what we need to do, right? How how's your week? How's your week been so far?
Bettina: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, it's Wild Week actually, 'cause it's the first week for us in education of the s new semester. So ⁓ always, you know, you're welcoming a brand new cohort in you we're a startup college, so this is the first time we've had four cohort ⁓ cohorts campus, you know, we're a small team, you know, like any startup. You're you're you're doing a a
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, that's that.
Bettina: bazillion things and you've got new people coming in. So I'll be glad towards the of this week we're all kinda gonna, you know a little bit out flat. ⁓ But ⁓ it's exciting, you know. ⁓ So yeah.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, it's it's like that, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it is exciting. let's get on into it. You have quite the worldly family, I will say. You were just saying to me then you've got a 30-year-old and a 26-year-old, one's in New York, you know, ⁓ taking on the business world and sounds like doing a great job. And then you've got another one in Toronto with a really interesting project or or a business that he's working in. ⁓ And then here you are in Scotland and like you're all from Melbourne. I love it. I love that no one's in the one place the one ⁓ But we make these things work, don't we? ⁓ I'm gonna get started. And I ⁓ sorry, I should say a big kind hello to all the listeners out there, wherever you are in the world, had having some great conversations. Again, this one is going to be ⁓
Bettina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Super fascinating. Bettina's got a story to share. I wouldn't let Bettina share the story with me when we met a few weeks ago. So can you just hold on to that so that I'm like everyone else here listening firsthand to journey in terms of you are a business leader, coach, and program leader of the Scotland College of Chiropractic. And you bring more than 25 years of entrepreneurship. You have still got your business Lux Consulting, and can tell us a little bit more about that as we go. And your leadership experience to developing people, teams, and new p possibilities in healthcare education. had a really important ⁓ point and it emerged, Bettina, when you began questioning established approaches to educating ⁓ professionals and exploring what a more contemporary model could possible for the next generation of practitioners. ⁓ With s I I I can't wait to talk to you about education, the old model and this this contemporary model that everyone is not everyone, a lot of people are talking about. you're helping develop Scotland's first chiropractic undergraduate degree program and the complexity and resistance that comes with challenging established systems while while also consuming a very d next a very different next chapter of your own life. I feel like that's where the story's coming from, ⁓ the story.
Bettina: Mm-hmm.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: At the unsole of your work is a belief that progress requires a willingness to question the paradigms we inherit, whether reshaping education or imagining a more nomadic life for yourself. you're exploring what becomes possible when we when we remain open to another way. I feel like for me that's when we remain open to the unknown, when we become formless to determine what our next form shape is going to look like. Tell a bit about your journey.
Bettina: it's always it's always interesting, you know, which bit do I pick? And do know my husband and I, we're fortunate enough we met when we were in our ⁓ very early days of college and so we've been together for you know almost 40 years now. And it's really because you know, you know, I always think when we have this moment where someone says, so tell me about yourself, and I kind of go, God, which bit do I start with?
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: Because we you just do things, right? We we just operate our system. We just you know, is this a good decision? Where are we going next? What are we doing? we just go for it. And it's often ⁓ like when I say to someone, you know, my family chat is ⁓ because that's way it is, because my children live in in the US and now in Canada. And And I don't think it's abnormal, I don't think it's different, I don't think it's unusual until I start telling someone about it. Which and then I think, ⁓ maybe it is unusual. But you know, we're a really tight knit family. We just don't live in the same country. And, you know, that in itself, even that is also just a an outside the mould version, you know. And I actually would argue we are as close, if not closer than most, you know, we
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: a video chat almost every day, and that's not our choice as parents looking out, you know, helicoptering around kids. That's actually their choice. They've they choose the the rhythm of that connection. So you they're still the first and the ⁓ the person you call for the fantastic, and the first person you call when the world falls apart. So ⁓ you that it that's it's funny until you I'm in this moment where I go, okay, yeah, okay, where do I start? So ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No, sorry, I love the Vest I love that the Divestus office because it's it's know, sometimes you take for granted when you all live so close to one another, you just don't see each other, like or you like there's no no catch family catch-ups, you don't video. I mean, I speak to my mum every single day. I think I love it because it almost makes you closer because there's this tyranny of distance, and so then there's this this need for more connection. And I
Bettina: Usually. Yeah. And when you yeah. it's you you do put in a different kind of effort, ⁓ you and even within that dynamic, you know, you you r you cul you cultivate the relationships in a different way, because of that.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: And I tell you what, we are well organized because, you know, all got schedules. So ⁓ to coordinate when we are going to be physically in the same place. It it's done well ahead. So, ⁓ know, we've got several Christmases in a row planned, you know. but so, you know, ⁓ if I look at it, there's been so many kind of points where There was an opportunity come up, and whatever that opportunity was, it often was, know, where I was going along one path and and thought, yeah, this is the path, ⁓ then this something shows up and completely unexpected. I the the the lean into education came at that, you know, I call it the Voldemort period of Melbourne lockdown, you know, should not be named, but ⁓ was that horrific, you know, ⁓ were going to hell in a handbasket and particularly from a health yeah ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Still are, I won't lie. Melbourne's not what it was, you know.
Bettina: It is not. I visited yeah in July. I was shocked. It's not the same city. Yeah. And it was, you know, coming out of that, that, you know, somebody from actually we moved originally to Barcelona to go to to become involved in the education there. And I literally first was, ⁓ hell no. You know, we've got this perfectly ⁓ great life and heading in this lovely direction where we're finally gonna get space back and
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: It's terrible. Yeah. It's yeah. That's right.
Bettina: know, my children are ⁓ the coop and you all these things and you know, like, ⁓ so no, what you're going to do is actually uproot your entire existence. You're going to sell off most of what you own and then you're going to go and, you know, ⁓ take a of suitcases and move to the other side of the world to a city that you've never been to. In fact I'd never been to Europe when we moved there. we ⁓ Jim had been when he was a child. ⁓ we our origins there. My ⁓ my father was and my mother was German. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: ⁓ wow.
Bettina: my husband's parents are Greek. And so, know, family origin there but never really, you know, travelled outside of Australia, but holidays is very different. And so we, know, ⁓ took up this and and ⁓ I saw it as an answering of a question, which is really It was a question we'd been asking. We'd been coaching and consulting for fifteen years and even getting into that was a very odd experience because again, no, practice is going well. We're a hands on co practice. It was great. We had a great team. We took our great team to an event and someone said, Hey, I think you should be coaching. ⁓ we were like, Excuse me? What? ⁓ And I cannot fathom my life.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: What do you mean?
Bettina: without it. Like it's just it it just mind boggling to think of the before and after that moment. And so was was those kind of pivot points where you think, okay, ⁓ I've been a question in my coaching working with, ⁓ you know, graduates, I kept saying, pulling them out. They're drowning. Why? What's happening upstream that can't see? Is it in their education? Is it something that they're being taught or not being taught that means that they're failing in practice? unfulfilled as human beings. And having to not create, you know, what we thought we'd be doing was enhancing, but we actually having to build from the ground up. And I kept asking this question: what's going on? Why is this happening? Why are there so many? And
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I mean
Bettina: you know, I believe if you ask a universe a question enough, eventually it it taps you on the shoulder and says, There's an answer, but you've got to go and find it. And so ⁓ found myself in Barcelona. sadly, because of my inexperience in education, I took on a role which was outrageous and impossible. And burnt myself learnt on beyond ⁓ exponential I literally graph wouldn't even be a graph, it would be straight up. It was it was brutal couple of years to be fair. But I can
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Especially 'cause you haven't been to Europe. You probably I mean, I don't know if you speak Spanish at all at all. Like Yeah. I was gonna say you would have had to learn pretty quickly 'cause there's just no tolerance for unless you can even like I know when I go to Spain or e Europe, there's just no tolerance for if you're not even trying. It's you just almost like ignored. So I'd hate to think what it's like in business. I mean, I've I've I've dealt with a Spanish company once before and there's just so much complexity to it.
Bettina: I do now. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ God, yeah. and I stepped into a bilingual school and ran this intern clinic, is all in Spanish. So, ⁓ you know, immediately wasn't just having a conversation to buy a cup of coffee, I was taking patient histories with students. So, you I had learn real and I was fortunate I I had a couple of other Latin languages under belt so I was building on a fairly solid foundation so it accelerates it pretty quickly once you get a couple of Latin ones know there's a lot of similarity the tone is similar so yeah my I could understand it very quickly so and like languages so that was no no issue but yeah was it was steep I came out of that saying I'll never put myself in that situation again. I'm not gonna burn myself like that again. and I reali I took six months to just regroup. in time, because that was my first step into formal education, I came saying, you know what, I actually kinda like this. it is very different to being, ⁓ you know, in in your own business, in your own structure, dictating own your kind of own rules. but I knew that there was some back information that I really was craving to to be better at that sp in that space. And so I up do a degree and I actually just graduated a month ago. ⁓ so ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Congratulations. Such exciting.
Bettina: Yeah, thank you. So yeah, so added a masters of education in and that was great. I mean I chose a place ironically I didn't know I was coming to Edinburgh at that time, but I chose a university here in Edinburgh and the part of the reason I chose it is two reasons. One I could do it remotely. And two is that when I looked at their assessment, I could do all of their assessment based on my context. I wasn't like learning about some ⁓ thing that I was never going to use. So for me, I was doing a module and implementing immediately. Which was awesome and I could apply my dissertation at the end to co practice, which was really exciting because I feel like it really gave me such a strong foundation. And now I can have, you know, intelligent conversations with people who've been in education. so ⁓ then coming here was again necessarily something I I we'd be doing. We were in that phase in that six months of saying, Okay
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Incredible.
Bettina: what now. We had a sense it wasn't coming back to Australia, we feel like that chapter.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I was gonna ask you that. Was there any kind of like just I'm just gonna pack it all in and head home? Like you've pretty much sold everything off. You like or was it just
Bettina: No, not it was you know, it's always there, our passports are there, you know, from there. Like there's always it's always going to be a sense of home. also, you know, as you said, my my children are all in the north ⁓ the two of them are in the northern hemisphere. So you staying in the northern hemisphere and being a day trip, not two days to get home, to see them, there's not a pulling us back there. So, it's We chose because we we met early, we chose to have our children quite early. so we didn't do what a lot of Australians do and have their European trip and that, you know, the long haul travel. We did lots of internal local travel. we didn't do that. So we kind of feel like we're now catching up on that, you know.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, tell me.
Bettina: Yeah, like literally next weekend, which sounds very kind of bourgeois to say as an Australian, you know, say on next weekend I'm speaking in Germany which sounds like, Wow, but it's like literally an hour and a half away. you know, it it's a different lifestyle. Yeah, you you can I couldn't used to it when the ⁓ you'd get a Monday morning with the students in Barcelona and you know, it'd ⁓ how was the weekend? and they'd say, ⁓ yeah, I'd go I went home and I'm looking at them like you come from Rome.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: And then my cause my Australian brain goes, How did you possibly get home and back in a weekend? But of course
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I know. So crazy isn't that we're so far away from everything. I mean, I know I've just been recently travelling and I go again on Monday and it's just like wild to think we really are far away from the rest of the world.
Bettina: Yeah. You don't realise it till you and you don't realise that everybody else is close together. so
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I know, I know. how did you get then so you've you've taken your six months off, you're working out what to do next. W what like ⁓ then you've already obviously already then s ⁓ that you're studying through through a college in Edin Edinburgh. How did then role come about? Like what happened there?
Bettina: Yep. well I I knew the college is even though been in existence for four years, it's been in the process has been quite a long one and as it when you start up anything like that and and you know, soon we we know that it it's just that step step you ⁓ regulators and all the accreditations all that stuff, it takes a lot of work. so I knew of it because ran an event once a year which was a fundraiser for it and they had me over to speak twice. ⁓ I was so familiar, was familiar with the people and they approached when they knew that I wasn't working and that I resigned from the Barcelona College and said, Hey we've got this role coming up. ⁓ Would you interested in applying? ⁓ And so did and know here we are. The rest is kind of history. and it and look, know the the foray into education, it if you've ⁓ lived and worked entrepreneurially you've run your own Business. into education is I I swear, but it's look, it messes with your head because it's a very different animal ⁓ and cautious I say this. It's a system that doesn't it's broken, but it doesn't that's the system doesn't know it's broken. ⁓ And so it's this
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: almost there's just so much wheel spinning that and you know it's like you can, you know, in a for me when you make a as ⁓ a business person or an entrepreneur and you go, right, that's where we're going. ⁓ Let's let's back to today. What do we need to do? What are the steps? How are we going to achieve this thing that we want to achieve? And we you do you try and do the the most direct path, right? You're not gonna dilly dally off off track. You try and stay on the path as much as you can. not really how education works. Even we know what the end product is, we know we what we're trying to create, there's so kind of masters ⁓ in that It's like how many people do we have to appease, how many rules do we have to follow, how many things do we have to do? Which what I see and one of the reasons we
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: my husband does full time with our coaching and consulting business and I was full time until I took this role on and now I just do part time. But the reason I maintain those clients one because I want a lot of them are chiropractors and they're working actively in their practices because I never want to be that educator that sits inside a education facility and has no contact with what's going on on the ground. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Date today, yeah, great.
Bettina: And yeah, so that was my one fear of stepping in was I would lose touch with the reality of the day-to-day because that constantly changing. Literally in Australia, just this week, there's been a ha a ruling hand down in terms of ⁓ working with pediatric which won't change the landscape too much, thank God. They ⁓ we you know it's well planned, but You know, that's constantly changing and that's a dynamic that the person we're working with as a running a business is got has to manage. You know, in the UK a brand new professional, a set of professional rules, you know, a code of conduct effectively came through ⁓ last ⁓ which actually again changed the dynamic for the UK chiropractors. And, ⁓ know, I wanted to make sure that we're really aware of that because we're teaching the people that are gonna slot into those systems, you know. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. It's interesting to talk about the systems in terms of in terms of the fact that you you into a broken system and it it like literally tossed you out and you were burnt out. I I was in a system that did the same. Like there's so many like if you about the traditional models of business, whether it's education, corporate, whatever, it's a system that generally ⁓
Bettina: And
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: t like tips you over the edge or i it's what causes the burnout or the archaic ⁓ archaic it is right and yet here you are back in going back into the system to to bring in more contemporary models, more I guess, a different way of approaching it. Like some people would think you're mad, like you're crazy in terms of why would you do that? And it's the same with me. Like, you know, it's funny, I I I've walked I walked away from and communications because I was just so burnt by it all. And all of a s and and more recently I'm coming back in a in different light, like what you've done in terms of and and it and I've found this newfound love for and for Positioning strategy, very different to though how I saw it previously. ⁓ ⁓ wanna make a difference and I wanna change things for the better versus ⁓ as is. ⁓
Bettina: I totally agree. Yes, being called crazy. In fact I remember my children calling me crazy and I said, ⁓ darling, that's the nicest thing you could have said 'cause, you know, God forbid I'd be normal. you know, I I've n I've always said if they ever wrote a book about me it'd be called Square Pegging Around Hole and I have this illusion that everyone can actually make a difference even you know the in I was I was just literally saying in our nightly last night I was you know, ⁓ in amongst a ⁓ week where, you pff it's just It's just a very it's like a melting pot and work alongside someone who, you know, ⁓ the stress very intensely. So, ⁓ know, it's it's it's really challenging. And amongst that, this beautiful young woman who's just started it's her first week came and and shared something about how grateful she was about the content we shared that week with her she comes from family, like she's she comes from what she's one of our what we call a Cairo kid. So she's been raised in a chiropractic family two generations. so she was like I was a little bit worried that you know I would feel out of place and you the conversations we've had and the cr and it was just I said to Jim it was like this little ⁓ shining that said, you know what? In amongst all this noise, ⁓ some someone you made a difference. And you know, spoken on so many different stages and and done so much that work ⁓ that You know, I always say it doesn't matter how big the group is, I'm speaking to one person. There's one person. Like I believe there's one person who's listening to this today who needs to hear whatever we're going to say. for me that's it calms my brain and goes, you know, it doesn't matter what happens, it'll be the right thing for that person. So, ⁓ you it's finding that spark and remembering why you do it. And in tough systems, I honestly believe the harder the system is and the more
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Right. Yeah.
Bettina: dysfunctional it is, more focused you need to be on while you're there. Because you lose that, that's when think that's what happened for me. And I really saw it. I thought, yep, I know what I'm doing. But then the noise of the system having you know in such a foreign environment.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: I agree.
Bettina: that I lost that compass. so therefore ⁓ course I got burnt out because I know I was I was relying on motivation, ⁓ you know, physical exertion rather than being inspired. And when you're inspired there's infinite energy. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Absolutely. What was that like for you? Because like I mean, I if I think about ki chiropractor or any sort of form of professional, you know, whenever I've had physiotherapy or anything like that, it's almost like ⁓ s it they you play look like almost like a psychologist role as well in terms of it's it's yes, the physical issue. There's also the mental issue associated with it. And I'm sure you're all over I've got a great book around, ⁓ you what are the s the symptoms of the body, what's your soul telling you? Where I'm going with this is y you obviously burnt out. Like, did you take a step back to because I know from my own burnt out experience, like you when you're in it and you're still in that system, you know got to get out of it. You just don't know how to get out of it. And ⁓ and So there's I I don't know where I'm going with this question. There's just something there where I'm thinking about what it's like to go and see a practitioner, healthcare practitioner, for example. it might be physical, but whenever I've had something physical, I've always ended up getting like having a ⁓ psychologist type chat around mindset. And for know where I'm going with this because with burnout, the physical component is very easy to fix, really. Like that's the fastest part to recovery. It's the mental like the mental piece that's the hardest part. And it's the same with any form of injury, right? And so here you are in the depths of burnout, trying to work out what's next. So I guess my question is, how did that resonate with you? And then ta going back into the system, how are you doing things differently? Am I making sense of what I'm saying? ⁓
Bettina: Yeah. Totally, yeah, totally. know, it's funny that so so from a principle perspective, if we back to first principles, then the nervous system runs the show. And what we're doing when we find something in your body, we're just finding the interference to that nerve flow, which means that you're your brain your body effectively. And that's all that it is. removing interference so your body can do what it was born to do, which is to keep be connected. And it's really interesting when you You go into that burnout, that disconnect was really obvious to me. I was really clear that I wasn't I wasn't my body. I to function I had to just keep it was literally like this robotic place. But in the interesting thing about that for me is that that's a disempowered state it's a really shitty place to make decisions. ⁓ And so therefore the me was saying, Is it just that you really bloody tired and need Need a rest, or is it that this is the not right the place for you? Like what it you know it was very difficult to discern what the issue actually was because I was in such physical and emotional burnout. it was so I actually put myself into a container with one of my coaches, it was actually my spiritual coach, and said to her, Right, I'm not making a decision. Until we've done this month-long and container just being that we were in contact, I was doing very specific meditation, journaling, which I do anyway, but it was a very specific intention, and the question I was putting into that container was: is it I need a rest, ⁓ or is that ⁓ this is longer for me? this is actually harmful for me to stay in this environment. And so at the end of that, then made the decision to walk away. And it it interesting, you know, to to do that process, which is what I would suggest for others. You know, that ⁓ I literally to pull my own playbook out and say, hang on a minute. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Anyway.
Bettina: Hold on, we know we don't make great decisions in a disempowered, di physically depleted state. This is not gonna be great. I did that and then and knew as part of that that not only did I have to say I'm finishing, pick a date that I was finishing, but that then I was not in a place to just step into something else. ⁓ needed to c recalibrate. And so I did that. I got back into my body. I I moved my body differently, which was even that was different to what I'd done before. You know, I was like, ⁓ great, I'll be straight back into the gym. And didn't work. ⁓ because my I wasn't wasn't the same person. ⁓ just did a whole did a bunch of stuff. And so ⁓ what did differently coming into here was I don't bring my work laptop home.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Everything changes. No. ⁓
Bettina: I have my weekends. clock off. I've never been a clock watcher, right? When you're an entrepreneur, you just work, right? The work needs you just work. I actually downloaded an app ⁓ where walk in and I hit a button and says, I'm now at work. And then I hit a button when I leave and says I'm done. So Put some boundaries in because, you know, I still had, I was still studying and working up until, you know, the last, you know, four months. of course meant that, you know, my my personal time was not really personal time, it was study. But I knew what the purpose for that was and I knew there'd be an end point. so yeah, just it's really looking ⁓ I'm working and am but I'm not sacrificing. ⁓ And there's ⁓ such big difference.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Yeah, interesting. It's such a big difference. And it's such a at times. I know for myself, I was like having this very conversation last night, like 'cause it's almost like addiction work. Like we're and as an entrepreneur and like especially people with burnout, like they're high performers, high achievers, and you y my I always say this, my doctor said the handbrake will come on thick and fast. And ⁓ boy, ⁓ boy, does it duh do does it when I know I'm hitting my capacity, right? interesting that you have, ⁓ I I want to hear about this app. I think I need it, and I'm sure a lot of the listeners out there need it. It's interesting listening to you because here you are exploring a more contemporary model could make possible for the next generation of practitioners. And so when you're wanting to make fundamental inside out transformation That's that's a huge that's not just like doing the status quo. Like that's actually fundamental change. yet you set these significant boundaries. So like how do you ⁓ how you manage that? Because do you ever have moments where you just want to go like you feel like you want to pull yourself in? Like how do you do that? How do you yeah?
Bettina: ⁓ 100%. Yeah, a hundred percent. I actually having this conversation the other day and we're talking about boundary setting with the students. because students particularly as semester goes on and they get very close to exams are like drowning men. Like, you know, that aid thing when you're saving someone.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: You don't get too close to someone who's drowning because they will pull you down and stand on your head to save themselves. And and students very much, because of the pressure and the and the risk, et cetera, et cetera, they are very much like that. And I learnt very much to to I've created a moat, if you So I'm all I'm there, I'm there. And I also run student support for the college. So ⁓ that that can quite a lot. And we've got a lot of students coming into programs who are ill prepared for higher education, you know, they've been spoon fed at high school, they you know, they've been And it's not a criticism because I love parents, they all do their own best job, but we come we're now teaching the generation who were helicoptered, know, so it's a very different landscape that shape. So but I was saying to ⁓ colleague who's really struggling when they're not when they're not nice, you know, and and I said, Well, one, I'm a parent and not doesn't mean anything, it's just they're processing something. but also I've had the blessing and I see it as a blessing where I have done a spectacular faceplant with my health. And had, know, I always describe it as I've seen the abyss, I've seen what happens on the other side, I've had near death, and I know every single time that happens is because I don't stay aware of myself. And when I lose and I give more than I have
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: that I that's where I end up. And so, know, there are things that I do daily, know, Australian culture, high drinking culture. I don't I haven't drunk for years. And that's because I know what that does to my body. And I as I said, I've seen the other side. ⁓ I've the dangers of that for me. I don't care what anyone else does, to be honest, I'll pour you a drink, no problem. But ⁓ I I don't want to. Now you can imagine I've now come to, you know, even all of Europe. There it's high drinking culture.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: Scotland, forget about it. Like, you know, I've got back to people saying, I don't know if I can trust you if you don't have a drink. ⁓ Yeah, it's it's wild. ⁓ I I what the consequences of that are.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: ⁓ my gosh.
Bettina: You know, I look at it that and say, There is nothing that that is going to give me is worth it because of what it could cost me, you know? And I think those things make a difference. That's what stops me. That's what's you know, my natural tendency is just get in there. and I ⁓ that ⁓ time I've just learnt the hard way that I've got to make sure, you know, you've got to make sure you preserve it, 'cause ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Yeah, I have two. Yeah. I might Yeah. I agree. I don't think I'd ask this question before. I've got a f I've got a c a couple like three more questions and and then I'll let you get to your day. I I feel like we need a part two on ed the education system, although s although I'm mindful because you're in it. So I'm sure I can't ask you all the questions I want to ask you. But I
Bettina: You know, Yeah.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: What should I have for you when you're in the depths of burnout? I don't know if I've asked anyone this before. I I think about it myself a bit, when you reflect where where you were to where you are now and how much you've grown from a post traumatic growth perspective. it's huge. It's a it's a huge did you ever moments where you just thought you weren't gonna get better? Like did you ever think for like did you think I'm stuck in this I can't like I'm I I'm I'm ⁓ I'm I'm working on myself. Like even you doing going into your spiritual container, I did all of that. I've done all of that too. were moments where I was like, Am I ever going to find who I truly am, what I am? Like, did you ever have those moments? Because they are d deep, dark moments sometimes because you just like like you talk about, you know, even drinking culture. Like, I'm not the same person I was six months ago, let alone a year ago. And so
Bettina: Yeah, absolutely. Ooh. Absolutely. It I I think of my one of my I'm here. One of my frustrations in the spiritual world is is I see as virtue in that I often people talk about their healing and their recovery and and they'll they might kind of offhandedly talk about that.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Really interesting. Yeah.
Bettina: doubted whether this was ever gonna be, you know, whether I was ever gonna feel right again. And think it's coming more and more, but I I feel like we gloss over that part and I feel like we discount it. And I it's interesting, just recently my husband and I have been talking a lot about so one of things that we've we see, you know, when work one on one with someone, it's a very private container and they'll share things with us that they don't share publicly.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: Pains, wounds, that they're worried about. And ⁓ amazing. We've had so many over the time who have some sort of physical ailment, but they feel shame around it because we're health practitioners. You know, it's like all of a sudden you got this degree and now you're not allowed to be human. And much that gets kind of placated and pushed down and and that's a because what that means is now we have the next generation looking at the future one and saying, Well,
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: y I can't be like you. I can't do what you do. But the reality is they're only seeing the outside shell. They're not seeing those dark moments of the soul. know, the the where ⁓ literally you know, as I said, feel blessed that I've had those moments. I've had those moments where I felt like I chose to come back, where I wasn't leaving. And I'll ⁓ and and ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, not Yeah. Yes. Same. Same. Wild, isn't it? To think about it.
Bettina: It is absolutely wild. And I can't be you can't be the same after those. You just can't. I i it it's you're not impossible. It's like you shed that skin and you're is the new iteration of you. I think the difference I see and where often I lose people when I talk about this stuff that they
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Right.
Bettina: All they want is to go back what they were. And so they'll do the same things and create the same environment. ⁓ But know that they've changed. And so it becomes this hollow experience for so many. And you know, even you know, of my things when we were coming out of lockdown and people, I just want to go back to the way it was. I'm sorry, back to the way it was. There is no back to the way it was. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: No, it's never.
Bettina: We everything has changed now and you are different and the quicker you acknowledge that you're different, the quicker you'll move and you'll feel better. going looking back to who you were, ⁓ that doesn't exist anymore. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. Agree. Agree. I agree. And I also think there's just this opportunity to we need to unpack these this part more like because the am I going to get better? And you have this fear and it's like resistance. It's everything right. And so then you're looking around and you're thinking, Why that why is they can just carry on the way they are. So I think that's part of you then trying to fit back in. You don't fit in, you realize very you realise really quickly because the universe just keeps popping you out, back out and forward and you're like, Where are here I am again, right? I just think they're the sort of conversations need to be had. And you could argue that it's it's to education systems, corporate systems, you know, healthcare, all of that, because we've got these systems or these models That are just not necessarily conducive for how much we're evolving as as people. even this year. This year is is wild in terms of if I think about the start this year versus where we are now, it's just it's like so much has changed and yet ever like I don't know. It's it's hard to put my p my finger on it. You know what I mean? Like I just and I just think this is what Yeah, it's just this is what we need to be.
Bettina: Yeah, yeah. You're right.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Bringing more into play so that we can get to like you're talking around is the contemporary models that are required for the younger generations to get to ensure that they they flourish, ⁓ a more regenerative society versus an extractive and we need more resilience a around these younger ones as well, because like you say, this helicopter, this cotton wool, ⁓
Bettina: Yeah. It's quite scary. we trying to grapple right now. There's two things that come to mind actually. First of all, was when when I doing my la the the last degree, this master's and I was this paper, we were actually studying how people learn mathematics because it was a it you know it was a broad course and it was fascinating actually. And what I loved about it is they did a lot of personal internal reflection. Anyway, so one of papers that they were asking us to read was this it was written by a woman. ⁓ She's originally South African, she works at Stanford, Joe Bowler is her name. And she's just this think the box woman about how we approach mathematics. And her responses coming out of the fact that maths anxiety is now a thing. So ⁓ so yeah, if you talk to people, ⁓ so many people. ⁓ the challenge with is maths is the foundation stone for all of the science and technology. So if you if most education, if you don't do well.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, I had it. I didn'
Bettina: At maths at a low level, they won't promote you into, which means you get people who could be really brilliant in those spaces and innovative are never going to get there ⁓ the way that they think. So I'm reading this paper and I'm like really excited. I'm like, this sounds amazing. Well, is awesome. Like, this should be in every school. My son and I often talk about revolutionising education. That might be the next chapter. But ⁓ Anyway, I'm reading it and then I went, God, where was this paper created? Like I'm sorry, I'm looking, I'm going and look back, and and I went, my God. And I was ⁓ instantly furious, because ⁓ paper was 20 years old. And I was
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: For me.
Bettina: I was stomping up the hallway. My husband was up in our lounge in our apartment. I'm walking up the hallway and he could tell by my face. He's like, shit, what's on here? Rant, full I said, There are 20 years worth of kids who could have ⁓ not had trauma and anxiety around mathematics. There are solutions. This is the thing. We all go, what is the solution? ⁓ Well, bloody hell, these people who are ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah.
Bettina: They have the answer and we're just frickin' ignoring them. In ⁓ the place. So that was that's so an it's just a small example, but it's one that really sticks in my mind. And a current one, literally a month ago, got have a parent university who awards our degree ⁓ just and I won't name them
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Should I'm sure there's some F bombs being dropped to and pa as part of this. ⁓ my goodness.
Bettina: Have just downloaded a new policy around assessment for courseworks, so that's where it's a written submission that goes gets uploaded. For they've now created a seven day window. So you set a deadline and say it's due on Monday. ⁓ The can submit up to seven days late with no penalty and doesn't even have to let you know. And ⁓ know, all sitting here going, right, so that's like your mortgage, right? Or your power bill or
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, you pay any late and I think it yeah no.
Bettina: You can just choose to pay seven days late. So we're actually cultivating mediocrity. And it it I literally took me a day to actually thank God the students weren't there because it was, you know, still summer here and we were just shaking our heads and going, we don't even know how to implement that. Like it's an online platform. ⁓ So
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah. No. No. So the team. sorry you go.
Bettina: Go, go, no, absolutely. So yeah, very real for me at the moment about that.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, absolutely. My final question for you. Can you believe we've been in flow for forty plus forty plus minutes now? Like it's always the way, isn't it? Like I I love talking too. me one final one I'm gonna I'm gonna have a final question that I am gonna get you on at some point in the next however many months, around the revolution of education when you're in a position already to to talk about that, ⁓ in what you've been doing at the the college at. Tell me one thing. I guess I I guess I'm
Bettina: I can talk. Yeah.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Wanting to understand or get some advice for the listeners there in terms of what be one piece of advice you would give around navigating the complexity and the resistance that comes with challenging established systems? So, like I'm I'm here now, I'm a listener and I'm in a position ⁓ and ⁓ know needs shaping and shifting, gonna call it, and yet there's all complexity, there's all this resistance. ⁓ What what would be one piece of advice you would give that you, the person that wants to be part of this change, doesn't get stung by the system and end up in a burnout state like you have, I have? What would be one piece of advice you'd give them?
Bettina: I think it really comes down to you need to choose you put your energy and think spending more time thinking about that rather than spinning your wheels. because often think know where the point of entry is, but it's often not And when you want to make change, if you're just doing the same thing, like you're still working the same way, the same system, ⁓ then you often miss opportunities I think at the end of the day ⁓ a human in a system ⁓ have to be able to manage your internal environment and not add meaning to the fact that the system's resisting or that even a person's resisting or that there's a pressure there for that, ⁓ that single individual's just doing their best in the moment and that really all can control is your internal environment. And so if you can manage that and then take time, because if you keep that ⁓ then take the time to say, where can I have the best impact, it's surprising what you can do. So for that's I don't know another system when you go into a really complex system to do it. And I think it's like any personal growth, you know, often when we s we run workshops and retreats and people say, How do I even explain what happened here? I'll we'll often say, you don't have to, just live your life as an example. Not because it's an example, but people will eventually come to you. Yeah. ⁓ will come to you and say, what are you doing differently? ⁓ is it you're getting that person to do that or ⁓ that? Or why are you getting this opportunity and it's just because you're controlling what you can control and doing what you can?
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, maybe laugh as an example. Yeah, that's great.
Bettina: Not because you're breaking a system or trying to create any resistance. It's just control the internal environment first. Get that right, ⁓ wisdom will come on where to make the change.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Love it. ⁓ Bettina, what a great conversation. My goodness, we could talk for hours. I feel like I could be looking at the screen and next thing it's five hours has gone by and you and I have like all solved all the problems of the world. How do we find out more about you, Bettina? How do we find out more about the sex Scotland College of Chiropractic but also Lux Consulting?
Bettina: All the problems. Yeah. ⁓ the usual way is mostly social media. We actually d we ⁓ our w website for Lux Consulting crashed ⁓ a year ago and we realized no one was going there anyway. so if you put Bettina Tornatora, I think I'm the only one on on any socials, you'll find me. So you the all the usual Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, I'm in there. and you know, know people find when they need us. ⁓
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's there's a bit of a story there in terms of having a website and ⁓ my gosh, you've got to have all of this. Yeah, okay. Okay, you know Well Bettina, thank you so much for your time. I've thoroughly enjoyed connecting with you and and having this great conversation. you the happiest of happy Fridays. And of everyone on nine eleven today, ⁓ you know, especially in the United States. It's yeah, it's I think we get good perspective when we ⁓
Bettina: Yeah. It'll come back eventually. You're well. Amazing.
Bee Murray, Bee Formless: we think about these moments in in history and and time, don't we? And it just it does remind you about what's important and coming right back to family, friends, connection well. So Bettina, thank you so much. And ⁓ Thank you. Take care.
Bettina: You're so welcome. Thanks for doing great work. Take care.
