Recording for April 11 2024 Data Dudes
[00:00:00] Will: Welcome to this episode of Amazon Data Dudes. I'm your host, Will Christensen. We have Nan and Brandon here. How's it going?
[00:00:07] Nhan: Hello.
[00:00:08] Will: All right. So we're going to dive in here. We, we just released a new superpower. and this, this superpower has deep roots. back before Nan joined us. this was actually a superpower that was in development then, and something he was actually using as his own superpower that he'd built for his own company.
[00:00:26] Will: Do you want to tell us a little bit about that, Lon?
[00:00:28] Nhan: Yep. So the superpower is the Amazon Transparency app. And, purpose and all the details of transparency is beyond the scope of this episode. But basically the short version is that Amazon launched the Amazon Transparency code is basically to put a serial number on every item in your catalog so that when you send it in, nobody else can jump on that listing.
[00:00:52] Nhan: So if you got a counterfeit. A problem or other people jumping on your listings or if you want to control distribution of your product on amazon Then you put a transparency program on it. So our use case we are on a power equipment side is, we're a big seller that mostly does, resale, like wholesale arbitrage on Amazon and our product is lawn equipment parts like lawnmower wheels.
[00:01:21] Nhan: if we create a listing. that is under our own brand, other people can just jump on and sell a generic product under that listing. And that's the problem we kept having. And so we can't put a lot of time and effort into creating our little listing, make it pretty and all that, and have somebody else jump on and drive the margin to zero.
[00:01:38] Nhan: And that's what we saw in the wholesale game was happening. so we decided to create the use this program. Of transparency to make sure that nobody else can get on the listing if they don't have this transparency code. And so that's the background of why we started that.
[00:01:58] Will: So the hijacking, I mean, it's a real thing. Obviously, Brandon, you've been around in the, in the Cellar game for many, many years. You did a lot of the books. I mean, why is that a problem?
[00:02:09] Brandon: Well, I don't know if you remember my brother had the product. It was probably one of the most hijacked products there was one of the most copied and hijacked products that there was on Amazon. just an injection molded product. There was tons of fakes on there and stuff. And, so people would, you know, he was selling it at say 1299 people would jump on there and list it for 9, but it would be a fake one or a lesser quality one and stuff.
[00:02:29] Brandon: And in order to combat that. The traditional way, you have to go report it to Amazon. You have to buy one, report it, tell Amazon what it does, and then they'll knock that seller off. And then that seller just comes back as another name and does the same thing over again. So it's whack a mole where you never win.
[00:02:44] Nhan: And that's what we've seen, too, with some of the manufacturers listings, for example, a, it was one of the products that is electrical product and it's, uh, it's a solenoid. And, it's made in the U. S. but we have random Chinese brands that jump on with random names and sell it under there.
[00:03:10] Nhan: So that's becoming a lot more prevalent these days,
[00:03:13] Brandon: too. They undercut your price and they undercut your quality too, which leads to negative reviews on your product. So it's that situation all around. You're losing out on the revenue. they're selling it for less than it is. And then you're also losing out on the, positive feedback you should be getting for your product.
[00:03:27] Brandon: So transfer is a way to solve that. when you apply transparency to your products, you have to have this label on every legitimate product that you sell shows up to an FPA fulfillment center without a valid label on it. That hasn't been used before. Then Amazon rejects it at the fulfillment center and they can't, be sold.
[00:03:45] Nhan: This is the case in point here. as you can see, it's like the random keyboard that they punch on the keyboard is the name and they rotate J H N N. And then Hi Yuan Xi Xiong Jing. Like these guys, the names just rotate every, few weeks is because like they jump on, they get a few sales.
[00:04:05] Nhan: You can see the review of the ratings is terrible. It's because they're just counterfeits and, then they grab a few dollars and they get off and there's never ending supply of this because they can always create new company names and relist on Amazon. So that's, that was the problem we're trying to solve.
[00:04:21] Will: So that transparency, and I think we will go, you know, future episode, idea there. Yeah. Is digging really into to some of that non mentioned a problem. and I, I believe I want to talk about that pain. Why was it that you didn't just go by the big bulk roll of labels? You know, to, to put those on your products.
[00:04:43] Will: why wouldn't the traditional way that Amazon's offering those labeling services work for you?
[00:04:49] Nhan: Yeah, so the transparency in order to, just so nobody gets left behind, in order for it to work, let me share a screen here and show you what it is. you create a label like this and then you put on the product, and then, every, like the way the Amazon suggests you do it is you get, you buy 10, 000 of these transparency codes.
[00:05:13] Nhan: And then you, uh, you send it to a printer, uh, company, they print it and then you get a back of rolls. Well, for us, that doesn't work is because we sell maybe like 500 units a year, or maybe even 50 units a year. Like that tends, buying 10, 000 worth of rolls is just not cost effective. So we needed a way to print a small batch of transparency labels and then to manage that within that like print it only when we need it because if we have like we have 2, 000 products and we have 2, 000 roles keeping track of where the roles are is going to be a problem too.
[00:05:49] Will: So, I mean, it sounds like a real batching issue, for you guys, from a standpoint of, of just what was there is that, and I remember Brandon and I were chatting a little bit about this when, when we very first were looking at what you were there and we were like, wait a minute. Really? We can just, I mean, it's just a 2d barcode.
[00:06:06] Will: Like how, how does this work? So it's kind of exciting that, that you, I mean, you had to really push in to find a technological solution for these smaller batches.
[00:06:15] Nhan: Exactly. Like we had to solve a lot of technological, problems to get to be able to print that on a small batch level.
[00:06:24] Brandon: Yeah, and like non said, if you use the Amazon suggested partners there, maybe it's not 10, 000, but they have to print 1000 labels or something at 5 cents a piece. So now you're buying the skew from Amazon. You're buying the label from the label printer and you know, that's hundreds of dollars in some of these.
[00:06:40] Brandon: And like non said, if you're only selling 50 or 200 of these a year, Like, that's now like a dollar a unit you're adding to the cost, which doesn't make sense, right? So,
[00:06:49] Nhan: And oftentimes the profit is only like a dollar or two per unit. So,
[00:06:53] Brandon: when you print your own labels, you can do it for just basically just the cost of buying the, the, the actual number from Amazon. And, uh, you know, the, the label you print yourself costs a penny or something.
[00:07:04] Will: Interesting. So non tell us if what I'm hearing is correct. Anyone who, who currently signs up for a data hub account has access to this new superpower. and now obviously this episode is being recorded in March of 2024. So as our pricing stands right now, move quickly. If you're, if you're there, you know, it's, it's available for you and we can grandfather you in if you jump in right now and test it out, but tell us what, what actually is included.
[00:07:30] Will: What, what can they do with what we've built thus far? I
[00:07:33] Nhan: Yeah. So, uh, right now it's the, the app's still in beta, but basically we take the transparency codes, and we print out like it's a, let me just give you an example of what it looks like. because Amazon sends us a file like this, obviously, also Amazon doesn't like to do things in a consistent way, so they actually put in the three columns.
[00:07:57] Nhan: So you can see that it's just a bunch of mumble jumble numbers,
[00:08:01] Brandon: Seriously, who puts things in three columns in a spreadsheet? It's the same data.
[00:08:07] Nhan: And it's not always three columns, sometimes it's one column, sometimes three columns, that's Amazon for you.
[00:08:13] Will: he had to have been drunk or something. Like, you know what? Like, like, I'm trying to think of the code that you would have to write to do that, I don't understand. Like, and then to change it back and forth between other things, like how. That's not an array. That's a three dimensional what I don't,
[00:08:31] Nhan: Yeah, So, so the app takes these codes that you buy from Amazon Transparency, page like this. So on the transparency page, you go and download, you code request and then you get it. And once you get it, you get this code file with a bunch of codes like this. And now you gotta take that and translate it into a 2D barcode, file.
[00:08:53] Nhan: So we've developed this app called the Transparency, uh, Barcode, the print, the Transparency Barcodes. And you go in you enter your you copy and paste your transparency code and for identification purposes. It's just a all the barcodes look the same. So we put a space here for you to put whatever skew or whatever name you want.
[00:09:13] Nhan: So, for example, let's just put skew one so that we can identify that this belongs to this skew when you look at the barcode. And then you generates a PDF and it has that skew one so you know when you print it out. Into a 10 by, 30, uh, yeah, three by 10 sheets. So 30 labels of per sheet that, you know, what skew it is.
[00:09:34] Nhan: So as you can see all those codes that took, and if you take out your transparency and, app, uh, that you download for Amazon and scan those codes, it works in that the, these are the, Labels that it prints for you so that you can print this out in a printer and then, uh, apply it to your product on.
[00:09:51] Nhan: As you can see, this is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 10. Whereas like you had to send a printer that charges you at least 50 to 100. and it's printing 10, just not worthwhile.
[00:10:03] Will: mean, and not that we don't love those printers because I mean, they're, they're obviously enabling people, but, but we really saw that there was a gap here. For anybody that was doing smaller runs and different pieces this way, where, you know, you want to print it yourself. You want to, you want to be able to handle this on a, on a one off basis.
[00:10:20] Will: And we're in the process. We'd love to hear from you if you're at a state where you're like, man, I would love to integrate this with my. You know, process and get it on the fly or on demand. We are looking for individuals who are, you know, interested in that sort of thing, for future. But, you know, as of right now, it's, it's ready, it's there.
[00:10:37] Will: And, and you're able to, to do a small batch of transparency labels right now inside, Cellular Labs Data Hub.
[00:10:43] Nhan: Yeah. The beautiful thing about that is like, we actually launched, we actually developed that for our own, uh, accounts at a power equipment to, to, uh, on, on the Amazon side of the business. but we launched it inside seller labs so that anybody who has a seller labs account can go in there and print.
[00:11:01] Nhan: And try the beta of this app and use it, including the betas. And that's the beauty of that, like leveraging us as a big seller with the resources to develop this software. And then you guys get to use it, from if you have a Seller Labs account.
[00:11:17] Will: Absolutely. Well, I, I'm excited that we're, you know, rolling out the new superpowers. I still am just scratching my head at three columns versus one column versus two columns. And the, it would be one thing if it was like, we only saw this once, but this is like common behavior. we see them change data structures like that all the time.
[00:11:37] Nhan: Yes, that's Amazon for you.
[00:11:41] Will: All right, well, over and out for this episode of Amazon Data Dudes. We'll see you guys on the next one.
[00:11:46] Nhan: All right, see you next time.
[00:00:00] Will: Welcome to this episode of Amazon Data Dudes. I'm your host, Will Christensen. We have Nan and Brandon here. How's it going?
[00:00:07] Nhan: Hello.
[00:00:08] Will: All right. So we're going to dive in here. We, we just released a new superpower. and this, this superpower has deep roots. back before Nan joined us. this was actually a superpower that was in development then, and something he was actually using as his own superpower that he'd built for his own company.
[00:00:26] Will: Do you want to tell us a little bit about that, Lon?
[00:00:28] Nhan: Yep. So the superpower is the Amazon Transparency app. And, purpose and all the details of transparency is beyond the scope of this episode. But basically the short version is that Amazon launched the Amazon Transparency code is basically to put a serial number on every item in your catalog so that when you send it in, nobody else can jump on that listing.
[00:00:52] Nhan: So if you got a counterfeit. A problem or other people jumping on your listings or if you want to control distribution of your product on amazon Then you put a transparency program on it. So our use case we are on a power equipment side is, we're a big seller that mostly does, resale, like wholesale arbitrage on Amazon and our product is lawn equipment parts like lawnmower wheels.
[00:01:21] Nhan: if we create a listing. that is under our own brand, other people can just jump on and sell a generic product under that listing. And that's the problem we kept having. And so we can't put a lot of time and effort into creating our little listing, make it pretty and all that, and have somebody else jump on and drive the margin to zero.
[00:01:38] Nhan: And that's what we saw in the wholesale game was happening. so we decided to create the use this program. Of transparency to make sure that nobody else can get on the listing if they don't have this transparency code. And so that's the background of why we started that.
[00:01:58] Will: So the hijacking, I mean, it's a real thing. Obviously, Brandon, you've been around in the, in the Cellar game for many, many years. You did a lot of the books. I mean, why is that a problem?
[00:02:09] Brandon: Well, I don't know if you remember my brother had the product. It was probably one of the most hijacked products there was one of the most copied and hijacked products that there was on Amazon. just an injection molded product. There was tons of fakes on there and stuff. And, so people would, you know, he was selling it at say 1299 people would jump on there and list it for 9, but it would be a fake one or a lesser quality one and stuff.
[00:02:29] Brandon: And in order to combat that. The traditional way, you have to go report it to Amazon. You have to buy one, report it, tell Amazon what it does, and then they'll knock that seller off. And then that seller just comes back as another name and does the same thing over again. So it's whack a mole where you never win.
[00:02:44] Nhan: And that's what we've seen, too, with some of the manufacturers listings, for example, a, it was one of the products that is electrical product and it's, uh, it's a solenoid. And, it's made in the U. S. but we have random Chinese brands that jump on with random names and sell it under there.
[00:03:10] Nhan: So that's becoming a lot more prevalent these days,
[00:03:13] Brandon: too. They undercut your price and they undercut your quality too, which leads to negative reviews on your product. So it's that situation all around. You're losing out on the revenue. they're selling it for less than it is. And then you're also losing out on the, positive feedback you should be getting for your product.
[00:03:27] Brandon: So transfer is a way to solve that. when you apply transparency to your products, you have to have this label on every legitimate product that you sell shows up to an FPA fulfillment center without a valid label on it. That hasn't been used before. Then Amazon rejects it at the fulfillment center and they can't, be sold.
[00:03:45] Nhan: This is the case in point here. as you can see, it's like the random keyboard that they punch on the keyboard is the name and they rotate J H N N. And then Hi Yuan Xi Xiong Jing. Like these guys, the names just rotate every, few weeks is because like they jump on, they get a few sales.
[00:04:05] Nhan: You can see the review of the ratings is terrible. It's because they're just counterfeits and, then they grab a few dollars and they get off and there's never ending supply of this because they can always create new company names and relist on Amazon. So that's, that was the problem we're trying to solve.
[00:04:21] Will: So that transparency, and I think we will go, you know, future episode, idea there. Yeah. Is digging really into to some of that non mentioned a problem. and I, I believe I want to talk about that pain. Why was it that you didn't just go by the big bulk roll of labels? You know, to, to put those on your products.
[00:04:43] Will: why wouldn't the traditional way that Amazon's offering those labeling services work for you?
[00:04:49] Nhan: Yeah, so the transparency in order to, just so nobody gets left behind, in order for it to work, let me share a screen here and show you what it is. you create a label like this and then you put on the product, and then, every, like the way the Amazon suggests you do it is you get, you buy 10, 000 of these transparency codes.
[00:05:13] Nhan: And then you, uh, you send it to a printer, uh, company, they print it and then you get a back of rolls. Well, for us, that doesn't work is because we sell maybe like 500 units a year, or maybe even 50 units a year. Like that tends, buying 10, 000 worth of rolls is just not cost effective. So we needed a way to print a small batch of transparency labels and then to manage that within that like print it only when we need it because if we have like we have 2, 000 products and we have 2, 000 roles keeping track of where the roles are is going to be a problem too.
[00:05:49] Will: So, I mean, it sounds like a real batching issue, for you guys, from a standpoint of, of just what was there is that, and I remember Brandon and I were chatting a little bit about this when, when we very first were looking at what you were there and we were like, wait a minute. Really? We can just, I mean, it's just a 2d barcode.
[00:06:06] Will: Like how, how does this work? So it's kind of exciting that, that you, I mean, you had to really push in to find a technological solution for these smaller batches.
[00:06:15] Nhan: Exactly. Like we had to solve a lot of technological, problems to get to be able to print that on a small batch level.
[00:06:24] Brandon: Yeah, and like non said, if you use the Amazon suggested partners there, maybe it's not 10, 000, but they have to print 1000 labels or something at 5 cents a piece. So now you're buying the skew from Amazon. You're buying the label from the label printer and you know, that's hundreds of dollars in some of these.
[00:06:40] Brandon: And like non said, if you're only selling 50 or 200 of these a year, Like, that's now like a dollar a unit you're adding to the cost, which doesn't make sense, right? So,
[00:06:49] Nhan: And oftentimes the profit is only like a dollar or two per unit. So,
[00:06:53] Brandon: when you print your own labels, you can do it for just basically just the cost of buying the, the, the actual number from Amazon. And, uh, you know, the, the label you print yourself costs a penny or something.
[00:07:04] Will: Interesting. So non tell us if what I'm hearing is correct. Anyone who, who currently signs up for a data hub account has access to this new superpower. and now obviously this episode is being recorded in March of 2024. So as our pricing stands right now, move quickly. If you're, if you're there, you know, it's, it's available for you and we can grandfather you in if you jump in right now and test it out, but tell us what, what actually is included.
[00:07:30] Will: What, what can they do with what we've built thus far? I
[00:07:33] Nhan: Yeah. So, uh, right now it's the, the app's still in beta, but basically we take the transparency codes, and we print out like it's a, let me just give you an example of what it looks like. because Amazon sends us a file like this, obviously, also Amazon doesn't like to do things in a consistent way, so they actually put in the three columns.
[00:07:57] Nhan: So you can see that it's just a bunch of mumble jumble numbers,
[00:08:01] Brandon: Seriously, who puts things in three columns in a spreadsheet? It's the same data.
[00:08:07] Nhan: And it's not always three columns, sometimes it's one column, sometimes three columns, that's Amazon for you.
[00:08:13] Will: he had to have been drunk or something. Like, you know what? Like, like, I'm trying to think of the code that you would have to write to do that, I don't understand. Like, and then to change it back and forth between other things, like how. That's not an array. That's a three dimensional what I don't,
[00:08:31] Nhan: Yeah, So, so the app takes these codes that you buy from Amazon Transparency, page like this. So on the transparency page, you go and download, you code request and then you get it. And once you get it, you get this code file with a bunch of codes like this. And now you gotta take that and translate it into a 2D barcode, file.
[00:08:53] Nhan: So we've developed this app called the Transparency, uh, Barcode, the print, the Transparency Barcodes. And you go in you enter your you copy and paste your transparency code and for identification purposes. It's just a all the barcodes look the same. So we put a space here for you to put whatever skew or whatever name you want.
[00:09:13] Nhan: So, for example, let's just put skew one so that we can identify that this belongs to this skew when you look at the barcode. And then you generates a PDF and it has that skew one so you know when you print it out. Into a 10 by, 30, uh, yeah, three by 10 sheets. So 30 labels of per sheet that, you know, what skew it is.
[00:09:34] Nhan: So as you can see all those codes that took, and if you take out your transparency and, app, uh, that you download for Amazon and scan those codes, it works in that the, these are the, Labels that it prints for you so that you can print this out in a printer and then, uh, apply it to your product on.
[00:09:51] Nhan: As you can see, this is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 10. Whereas like you had to send a printer that charges you at least 50 to 100. and it's printing 10, just not worthwhile.
[00:10:03] Will: mean, and not that we don't love those printers because I mean, they're, they're obviously enabling people, but, but we really saw that there was a gap here. For anybody that was doing smaller runs and different pieces this way, where, you know, you want to print it yourself. You want to, you want to be able to handle this on a, on a one off basis.
[00:10:20] Will: And we're in the process. We'd love to hear from you if you're at a state where you're like, man, I would love to integrate this with my. You know, process and get it on the fly or on demand. We are looking for individuals who are, you know, interested in that sort of thing, for future. But, you know, as of right now, it's, it's ready, it's there.
[00:10:37] Will: And, and you're able to, to do a small batch of transparency labels right now inside, Cellular Labs Data Hub.
[00:10:43] Nhan: Yeah. The beautiful thing about that is like, we actually launched, we actually developed that for our own, uh, accounts at a power equipment to, to, uh, on, on the Amazon side of the business. but we launched it inside seller labs so that anybody who has a seller labs account can go in there and print.
[00:11:01] Nhan: And try the beta of this app and use it, including the betas. And that's the beauty of that, like leveraging us as a big seller with the resources to develop this software. And then you guys get to use it, from if you have a Seller Labs account.
[00:11:17] Will: Absolutely. Well, I, I'm excited that we're, you know, rolling out the new superpowers. I still am just scratching my head at three columns versus one column versus two columns. And the, it would be one thing if it was like, we only saw this once, but this is like common behavior. we see them change data structures like that all the time.
[00:11:37] Nhan: Yes, that's Amazon for you.
[00:11:41] Will: All right, well, over and out for this episode of Amazon Data Dudes. We'll see you guys on the next one.
[00:11:46] Nhan: All right, see you next time.
