Michael Abney: Welcome back to 33 Conversations podcast. I'm your host, Michael Abeney. And today I'm joined by Nate, the founder of Cortex Flex and co-founder of Capsule Inc. Nate, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Nate Roy: Thank you, I'm great. I'm really excited for this conversation.
Michael Abney: Me too. When we first met, I your Ted Talk right before, it's probably a mistake, but I should have given myself a little bit of space because ⁓ it really hit me in a way that I did not expect. The idea that awareness and acceptance are soft skills, they're not neutral skills, shifted something in me that day, as you remember. And what out to me about your work is that you're not teaching from some pedestal. You're still learning, you're still testing and still adapting. So let's begin the show with what transformation are you in the middle of right now?
Nate Roy: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you. Those are very kind words. I would say that what you described is what I'm striving for. And that is the transformation that I'm in the middle of right now is really learning how to be a teacher and a student simultaneously, both in an effective manner. You might say the mentor and the mentee. And to speak a bit more for that, I am, as you said, a founder. So a leader of my company, but also we are in a leadership industry where we are ⁓ context of coaching. So it's like multi-level leadership. And know this for fact ⁓ that have to live on both sides and do so in an effective manner to take this where ⁓ I it can go. ⁓ But I said, it's a process. That's where I'm at right now.
Michael Abney: It is a process and during that process, it's evolving. Like there's a saying that I often is, know, or have to remind myself of often is like, what got you here ⁓ get you there. It's, and that's the, ⁓ the moving goal post in our forever now. But in that space, What have you noticed that shifting or refining for you or falling away from you as you keep daily moving in that direction of mastering this edge?
Nate Roy: Well, I've found that in some ways I've been forced into this transformation where I like to say maybe it's suffering from success, where at a certain point the leader cannot do everything. The leader has to become the student to some extent, has to look to others. so that happened almost by necessity. ⁓ ⁓ it's happened, there's been, of course, a ton of friction. Anytime there's change going on in your brain, Your nervous system really is basically screaming at you like, no, no, stay where it's safe. Stay where your habits are. Stay where you're used to being. So it hasn't been easy, but what I've noticed has been very positive as this transition has taken place, which is that I feel that I've lost some amount of what might be called in a psychological context self-monitoring, where it's like, I'm becoming more of my authentic self because I don't have to wear that hat of being the leader, of being the teacher at all times. I'm able to what I have in each given context, truly the standpoint of who I am. And sometimes, yes, that's the take charge person, ⁓ but it isn't. ⁓ And feel that I've only recently learned to do that, basically to fall into that other role or that other collection of roles ⁓ when in the best interest of... the company or whatever context I might be in as an individual.
Michael Abney: You're reminding me of something that I talked to you like I don't even remember what podcast it was. It's irrelevant right now, but it was just this where the person that I was talking with having the conversation with was remember that there's a third one you.
Nate Roy: Right, very true.
Michael Abney: because we, we split that and it's like, wow. We get caught up in these and it's, it's, we're supposed to like, there's nothing wrong, ⁓ just having the awareness that that authentic you is in the mix too. Really? Yeah. There's just something. Yeah.
Nate Roy: Absolutely. And that, you know, I'm the nerd with the brain poster on my wall so I can say that, but neuroscience would tell us that lack of authenticity is quite expensive for the brain because basically there's so amount of friction created by working against the natural set of circuit activity that would be there if we were fully ourselves. And you notice this. I can't say I'm fully at the end of this journey yet or anywhere close to that.
Michael Abney: Me neither.
Nate Roy: But you notice like as you travel, you're like, wow, it's like things in life are easier now. And it's an amazing feeling because especially in the realms that I stand in, know, there's so many we would call ourselves and I say ourselves, because I'm one of these people, biohackers and things like that, like trying to learn how to become more efficient physiologically. And often the solution is this that you've described is right in front of us. You're forgetting yourself quite literally, your being that and embodying.
Michael Abney: Yes. Yeah. It's crazy. Like I never plan how podcasts people I don't plan the schedule. I the people schedule whatever works for them. but I've had to do our sciences today. So it's like this of like seems to be that ⁓ this and ⁓ I know before would have thought that this is you know.
Nate Roy: It all runs through the brain.
Michael Abney: stuffy or that, you know, had some sort of conceptual thing of it. But what I found is like your take on it and her take on it is bringing just this enormous like fun to it and exploration X, you know, observer. And I'm just seeing that commonality of it because that was the thing that moved me so much about your Ted Ted X, which I will make sure there was always a link. Whoever's listening to this will be. wherever you're listening to it at, you'll find it. And definitely watch it. It's really fricking amazing. it was just this take on being the and learning at the same, like the balance between that because the old world would say, ⁓ you all your time becoming blah, blah, blah, and you're this and you're this role and you're identified with it that's the end of the story. And you I'm at an age where like if I didn't keep Learning. I lose my like my vigor for life and you were literally talking about this. So ⁓ did that come from? Why do you believe that teachers? Still an actively learning too. You know, like where did that come from? Where did it come from for you?
Nate Roy: There are a variety of angles I could take here, but I think the most salient right now that I have been living these last few weeks and months realizing where limits are ⁓ from original approach. I always had this idea that you have to lead through love. Basically you have to show people that they can depend on you and that they can be guided by you toward whatever they might be ⁓ shooting whether that be adding into the collective goal or perhaps for their individual goal in the context of an athlete, which is of course who we work with in Cortex Flex. And that's all important. You have to relay those messages. They do have to see that from you as a leader. I believe that strongly. But what I've seen is that's only one half of it. cannot just depend on you. ⁓ cannot just trust you. ⁓ They have to have the impression that you are also depending on them and that you trust them in the same way that ⁓ a might trust or depend on a teacher or a mentee might trust or depend on a mentor. ⁓ that is critical. I could give a lot of reasons for that, but again, I'll jump to the neuroscience. ⁓ brains and our nervous systems are essentially engines where an is ⁓ to some extent or to a pretty far extent going to fill and embody the role that you place them in. So if I'm treating you as if you are dependent on me, you're going to trust me, I'm going to guide you, yeah, it's going to be great. Those things are going to become true. But what about your own self-empowerment? That comes from, to some extent, me saying, you know what? here for you, ⁓ I'm depending on you for this. I'm trusting in you. to deliver this. not only that, but I'm looking to you. I'm looking to learn from you. ⁓ I've seen it takes some amount of trust. Part of you as a leader, especially when it's something you're working so hard to build, there's this thought of like, ⁓ you know, what if it crashes and burns? But I it's ⁓ amazing see what broadly humans are capable of. Basically, you set the constraint. You say that this is what I see you as. This is what I think you're capable of.
Michael Abney: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Nate Roy: This is what I would like to learn from you and you watch it happen. And it's really been incredible to do so, especially as I've really made it my intention to be in this spot over the last few months.
Michael Abney: Mm-hmm. and teachers have such an impact. You know, there's still teachers today that I like that changed aspects of myself at early ages that you never forget them. You know, like when I was growing up, there was my fifth grade teacher was, you know, she not only looked like Wonder Woman, she kind of was, you know, the first woman teacher that I had or second, maybe, but she was one that impacted me in a really powerful way. And my English teacher. when you were talking before that reminded me of like the concept that I had of her. Still, I can't call her by her first name. It's like, always want to say Mrs. Bannis, this was her name. But later on in life, I got a chance to go to lunch with her. Just the paradigm busting shifts that happened during that Mexican dinner was like extraordinary. was like she was just like. point blank real with me about you know everything that she saw about the situation because I was bullied in high school and like her experience of that and she's like and I was always tripped up about writing ⁓ I want to mess it up you know and she's like ⁓ you fine she goes you I just I was blown away that you could just still keep standing you know and kids keep showing up ⁓ and was like whoa and then I started writing after that. So it's like these dynamics in these roles that are like hardwired in there is so but they don't change until we start like bumping up against them and asking questions. was so grateful for that experience. ⁓ your take on like when that, you know, that was my gap, like, but for you, what was that gap like when you started to collapse those two things ⁓ started seeing the bridges between the two student and teacher roles?
Nate Roy: family. Bye. Well, I guess I saw two things. one was on the other side of things. If I am wholly focused on the development of the people I'm leading is that they became expedited in their own progress. So one example I can give you of this is ⁓ the founder of Cortex Flex, I lead a team of coaches ⁓ then each lead their own team of middle school and high school athletes who are technically our clients. ⁓ And these coaches are of incredible athletic background. They're all NCAA Division I athletes. We have individuals from Team USA. We have the best of the best. And then these are middle school and high school athletes some ways aspiring for those things. ⁓ we group everyone together. So we have an accountability system where everyone sends two daily goals ⁓ our app in the morning, our Cortex Flex Performance app. and tag someone to say like, you're my accountability partner. I'm depending on you to like basically add this extra layer of motivation to ensure I get these things done. there's no wall, you know, we have the, the division one and professional athletes being accountability partners ⁓ a 14 year old who's on junior varsity, trying to add some ways they can make varsity next fall. ⁓ I've seen that ⁓ caused the younger athletes to take so much initiative.
Michael Abney: Hmm
Nate Roy: It's like all of a sudden they're like, this person is going to be motivated by me. This person is going to learn something from me. All right. All I guess that's what I am now then. I'm a leader. know, I'm a motivator. I'm a teacher. And so that's been incredible to see. And of course, I'm not in their day-to-day environments, ⁓ but would imagine and from what I've heard from parent reports and teacher reports ⁓ and like that, that these kids are out there doing the same. in their communities and on their teams. And that's what we are shooting for. To me, that's what's most beautiful because I want people to live out their athletic dreams as a consequence of being in this program. And I'm confident that many will. But at the same time, it's life outcomes we're shooting for. And this leadership skill is so critical to just about anything you want to do. Then we'll say for the other side is, I think, if you look at the leaders or the mentors and see them as stepping.
Michael Abney: Literally.
Nate Roy: over the fence to being the or the students. I really speak for myself here, but I can also speak for the coaching staff who I lead. We have learned a ton ⁓ because we that when we look to the people we're mentoring or teaching for the answers, as opposed to just saying, you know what, I'm here, I got this, I'm your leader. You know, I'm the one with all the credibility. I'm on Team USA, all these sorts of things. It's somewhat limited in what we can gather. But if we come with questions as opposed to answers, basically, hey, like, you know, I've observed this, like maybe this certain aspect isn't going super well for myself, for you, and I'm wondering what you think. such valuable insight. And I think what you said about a paradigm shift, that's exactly what it is. Because across the industry, and really across industries, plural, you know, we're kind of in the exercise science, the performance, ⁓ industry, but really, in any education oriented industry. There's this idea that whoever's teaching, whoever's leading has to stand on this pedestal, like have this ultimate credibility, like I'm me, I've done all these things, and that's why I have the plan, you're gonna listen to me. And that is just one ingredient is what I've seen. And so yeah, a bit of a ramble there with my answer, but it's on both sides.
Michael Abney: Yeah, it's it. No.
Nate Roy: I see such a critical nature in continuing to progress on being on both sides with myself and with my coaching staff who I lead as well.
Michael Abney: love that because it's so true. Like that's what we were all taught that that you know, athletes were here and everybody else was here that ⁓ was a that was a you know, it was a real but it was like that was what was created like an artificial barrier. And thank you. love that you're short circuiting that without having that those walls in between the program that you're in because it It brings authenticity to everything and then the asking of the questions is also incredible too. do want to talk about this one, ⁓ analogy of the hardware and the software and us a little bit of take so we have a context for that. thought it was extraordinary.
Nate Roy: Yeah, absolutely. So where I learned that was in my own path as an athlete realizing that there are limits ⁓ what you can achieve by focusing ⁓ what we might call the soft mindset skills. And I don't mean to cut importance because you need those. I'm talking about things like being able to be resilient to failure, know, mental frameworks you can use to stay motivated, to stay focused. But that alone, that's like your last resort in some ways. is your security measure at the end. ⁓ ultimately what happens at any given time, whether we're talking about adversity in a sport or adversity in life, adversity in leadership for that matter, is you are absorbing a ton of information from your environment and your nervous system is responding to it. ⁓ essentially through what is a default pattern. through that response, it constrains ⁓ of spaces that your brain can go into. So it's almost like you have this whole world of things your brain can do at a given moment, but it's that default neurological, almost out of your control response. Or I won't say out of your control because that's the whole thing it is in our control. but unconscious to some degree if you place intention on feeling that response. But it takes it and shrinks it down to this much smaller space ⁓ ⁓ that your brain can achieve. So that's what I mean about the more mental, the psychological skills, the more conscious things being last resort because that's after ⁓ your system has already somewhat selected what can happen. At that point, limited. can operate within that space, and that's what those mental skills are really good for. They can still help you out in that moment. But it was a turning point for me to realize, okay, well, we can realign this whole situation. You can train your nervous system, train your brain to take in this information and not have it shrink down to this super limited set of opportunities for your brain. at that, maybe it does shrink down, but it's... shrinking down toward the set of responses that you want. They're most adaptive for the context that you're in. So that's maybe a bit buzzword heavy. I spend too much time in the lab and have to constantly get myself out of sight.
Michael Abney: But how do you adjust when you said there is a way? Like what is that way? Or what is the arena that that way is in? A lot of people will be interested in that.
Nate Roy: Yeah, absolutely. It's through training really. And people, you know, I think we've all caught a fitness bug, especially at this time of year, New Year's resolutionists are in the gym training our musculature, but you can train your brain in the same way. It involves setting a constraint that your physiology must meet in order to be successful in the task. And then that pattern becomes ingrained. So similar to in the lifting gym, the constraint might be you have to move. this heavy weight, move this heavy weight a bunch of times, your brain is going to prompt change such that you're equipped to do so in the future. That change being, you know, have an increased muscle mass. But it's the same for the brain. So you can put yourself deliberately in a context of adversity. And this can be a lot of different contexts. For example,
Michael Abney: Okay.
Nate Roy: We use physical adversity a lot in our program. So it's like an isometric hold, such as like a wall sit or an isometric, you're in a static lunge position where there's all this signaling coming up from your body to your brain, basically screaming at you to stop. So that's a source of adversity. Or, you know, maybe someone's like, all right, be quiet, like this meathead, like I'm not going to the gym right now, fine. Another source of adversity you can implement is emotional adversity. You can deliberately put yourself in context where you have to confront. things that hold you back from an emotional standpoint, or things that are emotionally distressing to you through visualization or reflection and modalities like that. it doesn't stop there. You don't just put yourself in the adversity. ⁓ must be coupled to task or again I say a constraint that forces to maintain precision ⁓ such that physiology cannot spiral. Your ⁓ breathing rate ⁓ get super high, you can't start to become jittery due to the fact that you must succeed in this task. So an example again of what that looks like to get very tangible for people is you have the adversity and this can be a variety of things. I gave the physical example, I gave the emotional example. And then at the same time you have a performance task that you have to succeed on. And it can be something incredibly simple. It's things that appear almost silly at the surface. Like we have our athletes in our program doing mental math and memory games, for example, while they're in these isometric hold positions. It doesn't really matter what the task is. It forces the mind and the nervous system to maintain precision while there's these signals screaming at you, these adversity signals. And this can be carried into a lot of different contexts. I'm talking about it in a more athletic performance sort of way because we prepare our athletes for on the field adversity, but you can prepare yourself for public speaking or whatever it is that might
Michael Abney: I love this.
Nate Roy: caused anxiety in your life in a similar manner.
Michael Abney: Well, die. Like ice bath, have you ever done an ice bath? That's the same, like when you were talking, I was like, that's what I had to do when I was in the ice bath. Because if I wasn't focusing solely on my breathing, I would have not made it. But like I did make it. But I was just doing that breath thing. I just did it to do it, to challenge myself. But now that you're saying this,
Nate Roy: I love, I love. Right.
Michael Abney: That makes me want to continue to do that. Whereas it was like...
Nate Roy: love to hear it. I have to pick at the ice bath thing because you know this this is all the rage right now and it can be very good but again we cannot allow our physiology to spiral and for most of us that will happen. We'll get in a freezing shower and ice bath and it's like your muscles get really tight you start breathing rate changes your mind basically panics so there must be a constraint to make sure that's not the case and it does demand some amount of creativity. I'm still working on this to develop things that are accessible to the masses, but it's anything that forces you to maintain precision. So it quite literally could be mental math or something like that, some phone game that demands that you keep your physiology intact in order to succeed. And what it does is it is hard wiring new patterns into your nervous system where the way we are wired more by nature that when we encounter this adversity, there's this inhibitory effect to ⁓ neural systems that grant precision of response. But if we continuously couple them in terms of these stimuli coming in at the same time, meaning the adversity and these precision networks are active while the adversity is present, well, most of us have heard that saying neurons that fire together wire together. So we rewire this new default pattern that actually then
Michael Abney: They're wired together, yeah.
Nate Roy: When you step into an adverse context, it actually activates your precision circuits instead of inhibiting them. And we all know people like that, right? Like we know the athlete who's like, like how does this person stay so calm under pressure or public speakers and things like that? There are a lot of reasons you could, you could look back at what they experienced in their childhood and whatnot that may have allowed them to develop in that manner. But what I'm saying is this is not up for chance. This is not something that's just genetic. We can control this.
Michael Abney: Yeah.
Nate Roy: We just have to put ourselves in front of the proper stimuli to develop these defaults. And that's why I'm so passionate about it because I see this that, again, it's this idea that adversity causes things to come constrained in terms of what we can do, and that does not have to be the case. We decide. It just takes intention on preparing ourselves in advance in order to tailor our patterns in a way that can be adaptive for us for what we want to achieve.
Michael Abney: Yeah. Is this where vulnerability or willingness to be vulnerable comes into play? Like because you're like, that's like, just, it's just going outside of our comfort zone, which for reason, you know, good or bad, that's where most people love to stay. So I think that's the main goal of life. But, you know, even with the podcast, like when I first started it, I wanted to do it, but then I started doing it. We started doing them live.
Nate Roy: Yes. Right.
Michael Abney: and never had a problem with that. But when I went like this was a huge shift for me. ⁓ Yeah, ⁓ huge. almost didn't continue it with like, you know, season six. I almost didn't, but I did. But then my love for the story kicked in on season six. And then season seven, ⁓
Nate Roy: Andrews.
Michael Abney: I'm meeting people like you and, you know, my imposter syndrome will kick in and like, why are these people talking to me? ⁓ what it did was it like made me want be better. It made me want to, get to that level where I wasn't thinking about it or had a constraint about about looking stupid or silly or whatever. But what it did was it made me ⁓ see the whole ⁓ create the context for exactly how I do it and then that process then allowed me just to be me, you know, that I could come in and do whatever I needed to do and have these amazing conversations and I know they're working because I'm now getting feedback that says X, you know, so I think it's on the same lines that we're, I'm just trying, every time you talk, I relate that to an aspect of my life that I never.
Nate Roy: Amazing.
Michael Abney: notice before. So thank you for that. It's just, I love anything that start. Yeah. Seeing that parallel. So as you're working with these guys, what gap are you trying to bridge with the capsule? Like help me see the, the, the spaces between the foundations that you're connected. Cause I know that they're connected on some level.
Nate Roy: Absolutely. I agree with Barry in parallel. Absolutely. Yeah, it was from seeing the limits of what I could achieve with Cortex Flex. So a bit more on what that is for anyone listening. We bring neuroscience to youth and teen athletics as a means to develop superior athletic abilities, but also elite life outcomes. So we prepare people for sport. We prepare people for life through neuroscience. Of course, in building this and in getting this insight, this opportunity to train in our program under this amazing staff of coaches who I've recruited out there, there were so many conversations that take place, like guess indirect sales, you can say, not really selling it, but just getting out and telling people. And often that was with decision makers for youth. So parents, ⁓ of athletic teams, ⁓ administrators. ⁓ And the whole time I had this idea that basically there's these insights in neuroscience that we must bring to the youth. I had spent a couple months, almost a year working in research Harvard in neuroscience. And that was my takeaway was almost, ⁓ do love research. I don't mean to hate on my own path, but almost like I'm more motivated to take this and carry it elsewhere. And, and ⁓
Michael Abney: Yeah.
Nate Roy: Back to answering the question a bit more directly, I had this thought like we need to bring this to youth. But then in these conversations and talking to decision makers, realized that they also felt like they were in the dark. ⁓ it made perfect sense because all this information is locked away in ⁓ and in laboratories. And I felt incredibly fortunate and privileged that I had the opportunity to go and study at such institutions and start to learn some of these things. But yet, you know, not everyone does. And not only that, but not everyone takes to it in this way. Not everyone's the nerd with the brand poster on their wall. Sometimes these things need to be made more accessible to people. So I thought we need something for the people who are boots on the ground shaping development. That's the teachers, that's the parents, that's the coaches, the school administrators. Because my formal career path is I'm... in the realm of people who are passionate about understanding development. It's scientists of neurodevelopment and psychological development. And then there's all these people that are passionate about shaping it. But it seemed to me, and I'm reminded of this on a daily basis, there's not enough crosstalk. People care about shaping it, people care about understanding it, but it's siloed. And I thought,
Michael Abney: Yeah.
Nate Roy: I cannot be the only person who cares about this and I cannot be the only person who's observed it. So I set about trying to find as many colleagues as I could, both within science and in medicine, and develop this team of people who cared about this. And we started working on information flow between these two camps, bringing science into communities for parents and for teachers and for coaches to use to tailor their approach to be more effective in what they aspire to do with the youth that they lead.
Michael Abney: Mm-hmm.
Nate Roy: And then it goes the other way too. really emphasize that, that it's bi-directional. So through all these conversations, through delivering the science, we're able to become critically aware of the needs and the tension points out there in the community, which are things that scientists and clinicians may not be as aware of. I mean, I'm guilty of this myself. You spend so much time in a lab. It's like sometimes you forget how the regular world works. It's just the nature of the game. So
Michael Abney: Hmm.
Nate Roy: I saw that we needed this intermediary and that's what Capsule is. It serves as an intermediary. And I find that there's so many connection points because a lot of these insights I've been ultimately bringing into the context of Cortex Flex to my coaching staff because we have to be able to bring science, the neuroscience of performance to the athletes. so in ways they are in that camp, right? They are people boots on the ground shaping development.
Michael Abney: Awesome. Yeah.
Nate Roy: And so these organizations, serve each other well and that's why I've been able to really throw so much of myself into both of them because this feels like me. it's ⁓
Michael Abney: is you saw the you saw the need in the bridge and you build in it. That's what that's all about. I love that this the. Well today, like because of my other conversation, I learned that you know at by the age were 30 that neuroplasticity sort of goes bye bye and that's kind of the way it is. And with your working with the youth, you're really that's where we can make the biggest impact for people's longevity and long life. And ⁓ know. I get it. So I was today years old when I figured that out and I heard that today. so, um, I, it's a private path, the fascination between the realms of, and she was, she's in Harvard as well too, but you're also an athlete and you know, as we're filming this, the Olympics are going on right now and you shared that you were on the bobsledding team for team USA, but you tore your ACL. Like, so what does that change?
Nate Roy: Right.
Michael Abney: relationship to resilience and being this and watching this and having this real-time experience right now with with watching your team and how is all that going?
Nate Roy: Yeah, it's been a wave of emotions, both positive and negative, of course. But I think to relate it to everything we've talked about thus far, it's forced me back into this role of student in a really healthy way, where it's easy to stand up there again on this pedestal, basically, and talk about being resilient to adversity when you're living in a context that isn't that adverse. And I did realize that. You know, of course I have daily adversity, but at the same time I'm speaking about adversity and a lot of the people I'm attempting to help are going through things that I can't possibly comprehend. And even now that remains the case, but yet this was an event that rocked my world. I had my sights set on the 2026 games and this came out of nowhere as injuries do. And it forced me to become a learner of everything I was preaching, you know. I'm thinking about not only the physical adaptation, but the psychological adaptation to such an event. And I've been living it. I'm three months post surgery at this point. And as you said, watching the Olympic year unfold on the sidelines, thinking about my future as a bobsled athlete and all of these things. it's allowed me to step back into the spot. ⁓ of being what I would say in the lab for these things. Like I'm actively testing, I'm experimenting, I'm learning, and that just sharpens my perspective and what I can bring to the athletes who I work with and the coaches who I work with who then lead athletes. One of the things that more tangibly that came of this is I became aware that there were a bunch of in Cortex Flex who we train who had specifically ACL tears and other ligament tears. fall, we work with a lot of football athletes, so it's unfortunately part of the game. And so I started a club, ⁓ Cortex ACL club, Cortex ACL rehab club. And it's been amazing for a variety of reasons. There's the learning element. But then outside of, again, we talked about soft versus hard in terms of neurological and psychological training.
Michael Abney: Mm-hmm.
Nate Roy: I there's a lot of neural prediction going on, there's a lot of modeling, whether it's conscious or not, where it's like, okay, well, here's this guy, you know, he was talking about the Olympics, and now all of a sudden he's home training in his garage and he can barely walk. ⁓ he's motivated, he's showing up full of fire, he's excited about the future, he's doing all these things, ⁓ ⁓ sets a almost in. It's almost what I would call expectancy engineering for everyone else where it's like, all right, well, that's what it looks like. That's why I'm headed as well. And so it's been, it's been an amazing process. can't say it's all positive, but sometimes it is these more negative things that like force adaptation. It's yet another constraint.
Michael Abney: Yeah. what makes the battery work. It needs both. It needs both.
Nate Roy: Very much agreed.
Michael Abney: I appreciate that. Do you have a sense of like who you're becoming out of this?
Nate Roy: Ooh, I love the question. I would say I'm becoming someone who can be depended on tremendously for variety of things. ⁓ if someone is looking for support, guidance, and route to their goals in many different domains, I'd like to say I'm becoming a person who they can lean on. But at the same time, I'm becoming a person who can maximally lean on those around me as well in the process. I think that's beautiful and it's far from complete, but that's where I'm headed.
Michael Abney: is the mayor. I love that. It's beautiful because you have to have both. It's connected. Yeah. So are you are you ready for your closing question? Okay, for somebody listening who feels stuck in their own personal growth or development, but feels overwhelmed by all of the information, the noise that's out there, they really can't hear their signal. Where should they begin?
Nate Roy: I already agreed. Essential. I'm ready for it. Another excellent question, I think it's something I could talk on forever. But since you asked for a starting point... My answer is to ignore the information. It's not really about learning, at least not directly. Like I feel like someone could listen to this and be like, yeah, well this guy, like, he understands the brain and all these things. One thing I'd say is I don't, I'm still learning, I'm far from there. But at the same time, it's not about that. Again, not directly at least. It's about selecting environments. put yourself in environments ⁓ and the learning happens on autopilot. So what I mean by that very directly is step into environments of being the leader and of being the student as well. That can happen tomorrow. It doesn't need to be anything substantial. You don't need to be able found something. Look around you about who might be looking for guidance. Hint for that is everybody.
Michael Abney: Yeah. Yeah.
Nate Roy: and step into that role for them. And then at the same time, think about where you might want guidance or you might be seeking learning and become a student in those categories. And it does just like anything else, it takes discipline. But that's why the environment is so critical because if you put yourself in these arenas, it's a constraint. It demands that it be the case. It demands that you adapt to being leader and student. ⁓
Michael Abney: Yeah.
Nate Roy: That's my advice is select the environments and I think we can all do that effective immediately.
Michael Abney: and immediately. be a great title for this one. I love it. Thank you so much for reminding us that growth it really is not about having it all figured out at all. It's just about staying in the work and staying in the game. So I appreciate you sharing your story with us today.
Nate Roy: Morning. For sure. Thank you for the invite. I loved being here.
Michael Abney: It's amazing. absolutely love it. 33 conversations actually exists to explore the humans behind the mission, the nervous systems behind the mindsets and regulated, aware, connected. That's where real change begins. So consider taking some time today to add a little nervous system regulation to your daily routine, explore your body, what it's asking for, and make it a reality. Not tomorrow, today. Thank you guys for watching and listening. I so appreciate you and can't wait to see you on the next one. But bye for now. See you guys.
Nate Roy: Thank you, I'm great. I'm really excited for this conversation.
Michael Abney: Me too. When we first met, I your Ted Talk right before, it's probably a mistake, but I should have given myself a little bit of space because ⁓ it really hit me in a way that I did not expect. The idea that awareness and acceptance are soft skills, they're not neutral skills, shifted something in me that day, as you remember. And what out to me about your work is that you're not teaching from some pedestal. You're still learning, you're still testing and still adapting. So let's begin the show with what transformation are you in the middle of right now?
Nate Roy: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you. Those are very kind words. I would say that what you described is what I'm striving for. And that is the transformation that I'm in the middle of right now is really learning how to be a teacher and a student simultaneously, both in an effective manner. You might say the mentor and the mentee. And to speak a bit more for that, I am, as you said, a founder. So a leader of my company, but also we are in a leadership industry where we are ⁓ context of coaching. So it's like multi-level leadership. And know this for fact ⁓ that have to live on both sides and do so in an effective manner to take this where ⁓ I it can go. ⁓ But I said, it's a process. That's where I'm at right now.
Michael Abney: It is a process and during that process, it's evolving. Like there's a saying that I often is, know, or have to remind myself of often is like, what got you here ⁓ get you there. It's, and that's the, ⁓ the moving goal post in our forever now. But in that space, What have you noticed that shifting or refining for you or falling away from you as you keep daily moving in that direction of mastering this edge?
Nate Roy: Well, I've found that in some ways I've been forced into this transformation where I like to say maybe it's suffering from success, where at a certain point the leader cannot do everything. The leader has to become the student to some extent, has to look to others. so that happened almost by necessity. ⁓ ⁓ it's happened, there's been, of course, a ton of friction. Anytime there's change going on in your brain, Your nervous system really is basically screaming at you like, no, no, stay where it's safe. Stay where your habits are. Stay where you're used to being. So it hasn't been easy, but what I've noticed has been very positive as this transition has taken place, which is that I feel that I've lost some amount of what might be called in a psychological context self-monitoring, where it's like, I'm becoming more of my authentic self because I don't have to wear that hat of being the leader, of being the teacher at all times. I'm able to what I have in each given context, truly the standpoint of who I am. And sometimes, yes, that's the take charge person, ⁓ but it isn't. ⁓ And feel that I've only recently learned to do that, basically to fall into that other role or that other collection of roles ⁓ when in the best interest of... the company or whatever context I might be in as an individual.
Michael Abney: You're reminding me of something that I talked to you like I don't even remember what podcast it was. It's irrelevant right now, but it was just this where the person that I was talking with having the conversation with was remember that there's a third one you.
Nate Roy: Right, very true.
Michael Abney: because we, we split that and it's like, wow. We get caught up in these and it's, it's, we're supposed to like, there's nothing wrong, ⁓ just having the awareness that that authentic you is in the mix too. Really? Yeah. There's just something. Yeah.
Nate Roy: Absolutely. And that, you know, I'm the nerd with the brain poster on my wall so I can say that, but neuroscience would tell us that lack of authenticity is quite expensive for the brain because basically there's so amount of friction created by working against the natural set of circuit activity that would be there if we were fully ourselves. And you notice this. I can't say I'm fully at the end of this journey yet or anywhere close to that.
Michael Abney: Me neither.
Nate Roy: But you notice like as you travel, you're like, wow, it's like things in life are easier now. And it's an amazing feeling because especially in the realms that I stand in, know, there's so many we would call ourselves and I say ourselves, because I'm one of these people, biohackers and things like that, like trying to learn how to become more efficient physiologically. And often the solution is this that you've described is right in front of us. You're forgetting yourself quite literally, your being that and embodying.
Michael Abney: Yes. Yeah. It's crazy. Like I never plan how podcasts people I don't plan the schedule. I the people schedule whatever works for them. but I've had to do our sciences today. So it's like this of like seems to be that ⁓ this and ⁓ I know before would have thought that this is you know.
Nate Roy: It all runs through the brain.
Michael Abney: stuffy or that, you know, had some sort of conceptual thing of it. But what I found is like your take on it and her take on it is bringing just this enormous like fun to it and exploration X, you know, observer. And I'm just seeing that commonality of it because that was the thing that moved me so much about your Ted Ted X, which I will make sure there was always a link. Whoever's listening to this will be. wherever you're listening to it at, you'll find it. And definitely watch it. It's really fricking amazing. it was just this take on being the and learning at the same, like the balance between that because the old world would say, ⁓ you all your time becoming blah, blah, blah, and you're this and you're this role and you're identified with it that's the end of the story. And you I'm at an age where like if I didn't keep Learning. I lose my like my vigor for life and you were literally talking about this. So ⁓ did that come from? Why do you believe that teachers? Still an actively learning too. You know, like where did that come from? Where did it come from for you?
Nate Roy: There are a variety of angles I could take here, but I think the most salient right now that I have been living these last few weeks and months realizing where limits are ⁓ from original approach. I always had this idea that you have to lead through love. Basically you have to show people that they can depend on you and that they can be guided by you toward whatever they might be ⁓ shooting whether that be adding into the collective goal or perhaps for their individual goal in the context of an athlete, which is of course who we work with in Cortex Flex. And that's all important. You have to relay those messages. They do have to see that from you as a leader. I believe that strongly. But what I've seen is that's only one half of it. cannot just depend on you. ⁓ cannot just trust you. ⁓ They have to have the impression that you are also depending on them and that you trust them in the same way that ⁓ a might trust or depend on a teacher or a mentee might trust or depend on a mentor. ⁓ that is critical. I could give a lot of reasons for that, but again, I'll jump to the neuroscience. ⁓ brains and our nervous systems are essentially engines where an is ⁓ to some extent or to a pretty far extent going to fill and embody the role that you place them in. So if I'm treating you as if you are dependent on me, you're going to trust me, I'm going to guide you, yeah, it's going to be great. Those things are going to become true. But what about your own self-empowerment? That comes from, to some extent, me saying, you know what? here for you, ⁓ I'm depending on you for this. I'm trusting in you. to deliver this. not only that, but I'm looking to you. I'm looking to learn from you. ⁓ I've seen it takes some amount of trust. Part of you as a leader, especially when it's something you're working so hard to build, there's this thought of like, ⁓ you know, what if it crashes and burns? But I it's ⁓ amazing see what broadly humans are capable of. Basically, you set the constraint. You say that this is what I see you as. This is what I think you're capable of.
Michael Abney: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Nate Roy: This is what I would like to learn from you and you watch it happen. And it's really been incredible to do so, especially as I've really made it my intention to be in this spot over the last few months.
Michael Abney: Mm-hmm. and teachers have such an impact. You know, there's still teachers today that I like that changed aspects of myself at early ages that you never forget them. You know, like when I was growing up, there was my fifth grade teacher was, you know, she not only looked like Wonder Woman, she kind of was, you know, the first woman teacher that I had or second, maybe, but she was one that impacted me in a really powerful way. And my English teacher. when you were talking before that reminded me of like the concept that I had of her. Still, I can't call her by her first name. It's like, always want to say Mrs. Bannis, this was her name. But later on in life, I got a chance to go to lunch with her. Just the paradigm busting shifts that happened during that Mexican dinner was like extraordinary. was like she was just like. point blank real with me about you know everything that she saw about the situation because I was bullied in high school and like her experience of that and she's like and I was always tripped up about writing ⁓ I want to mess it up you know and she's like ⁓ you fine she goes you I just I was blown away that you could just still keep standing you know and kids keep showing up ⁓ and was like whoa and then I started writing after that. So it's like these dynamics in these roles that are like hardwired in there is so but they don't change until we start like bumping up against them and asking questions. was so grateful for that experience. ⁓ your take on like when that, you know, that was my gap, like, but for you, what was that gap like when you started to collapse those two things ⁓ started seeing the bridges between the two student and teacher roles?
Nate Roy: family. Bye. Well, I guess I saw two things. one was on the other side of things. If I am wholly focused on the development of the people I'm leading is that they became expedited in their own progress. So one example I can give you of this is ⁓ the founder of Cortex Flex, I lead a team of coaches ⁓ then each lead their own team of middle school and high school athletes who are technically our clients. ⁓ And these coaches are of incredible athletic background. They're all NCAA Division I athletes. We have individuals from Team USA. We have the best of the best. And then these are middle school and high school athletes some ways aspiring for those things. ⁓ we group everyone together. So we have an accountability system where everyone sends two daily goals ⁓ our app in the morning, our Cortex Flex Performance app. and tag someone to say like, you're my accountability partner. I'm depending on you to like basically add this extra layer of motivation to ensure I get these things done. there's no wall, you know, we have the, the division one and professional athletes being accountability partners ⁓ a 14 year old who's on junior varsity, trying to add some ways they can make varsity next fall. ⁓ I've seen that ⁓ caused the younger athletes to take so much initiative.
Michael Abney: Hmm
Nate Roy: It's like all of a sudden they're like, this person is going to be motivated by me. This person is going to learn something from me. All right. All I guess that's what I am now then. I'm a leader. know, I'm a motivator. I'm a teacher. And so that's been incredible to see. And of course, I'm not in their day-to-day environments, ⁓ but would imagine and from what I've heard from parent reports and teacher reports ⁓ and like that, that these kids are out there doing the same. in their communities and on their teams. And that's what we are shooting for. To me, that's what's most beautiful because I want people to live out their athletic dreams as a consequence of being in this program. And I'm confident that many will. But at the same time, it's life outcomes we're shooting for. And this leadership skill is so critical to just about anything you want to do. Then we'll say for the other side is, I think, if you look at the leaders or the mentors and see them as stepping.
Michael Abney: Literally.
Nate Roy: over the fence to being the or the students. I really speak for myself here, but I can also speak for the coaching staff who I lead. We have learned a ton ⁓ because we that when we look to the people we're mentoring or teaching for the answers, as opposed to just saying, you know what, I'm here, I got this, I'm your leader. You know, I'm the one with all the credibility. I'm on Team USA, all these sorts of things. It's somewhat limited in what we can gather. But if we come with questions as opposed to answers, basically, hey, like, you know, I've observed this, like maybe this certain aspect isn't going super well for myself, for you, and I'm wondering what you think. such valuable insight. And I think what you said about a paradigm shift, that's exactly what it is. Because across the industry, and really across industries, plural, you know, we're kind of in the exercise science, the performance, ⁓ industry, but really, in any education oriented industry. There's this idea that whoever's teaching, whoever's leading has to stand on this pedestal, like have this ultimate credibility, like I'm me, I've done all these things, and that's why I have the plan, you're gonna listen to me. And that is just one ingredient is what I've seen. And so yeah, a bit of a ramble there with my answer, but it's on both sides.
Michael Abney: Yeah, it's it. No.
Nate Roy: I see such a critical nature in continuing to progress on being on both sides with myself and with my coaching staff who I lead as well.
Michael Abney: love that because it's so true. Like that's what we were all taught that that you know, athletes were here and everybody else was here that ⁓ was a that was a you know, it was a real but it was like that was what was created like an artificial barrier. And thank you. love that you're short circuiting that without having that those walls in between the program that you're in because it It brings authenticity to everything and then the asking of the questions is also incredible too. do want to talk about this one, ⁓ analogy of the hardware and the software and us a little bit of take so we have a context for that. thought it was extraordinary.
Nate Roy: Yeah, absolutely. So where I learned that was in my own path as an athlete realizing that there are limits ⁓ what you can achieve by focusing ⁓ what we might call the soft mindset skills. And I don't mean to cut importance because you need those. I'm talking about things like being able to be resilient to failure, know, mental frameworks you can use to stay motivated, to stay focused. But that alone, that's like your last resort in some ways. is your security measure at the end. ⁓ ultimately what happens at any given time, whether we're talking about adversity in a sport or adversity in life, adversity in leadership for that matter, is you are absorbing a ton of information from your environment and your nervous system is responding to it. ⁓ essentially through what is a default pattern. through that response, it constrains ⁓ of spaces that your brain can go into. So it's almost like you have this whole world of things your brain can do at a given moment, but it's that default neurological, almost out of your control response. Or I won't say out of your control because that's the whole thing it is in our control. but unconscious to some degree if you place intention on feeling that response. But it takes it and shrinks it down to this much smaller space ⁓ ⁓ that your brain can achieve. So that's what I mean about the more mental, the psychological skills, the more conscious things being last resort because that's after ⁓ your system has already somewhat selected what can happen. At that point, limited. can operate within that space, and that's what those mental skills are really good for. They can still help you out in that moment. But it was a turning point for me to realize, okay, well, we can realign this whole situation. You can train your nervous system, train your brain to take in this information and not have it shrink down to this super limited set of opportunities for your brain. at that, maybe it does shrink down, but it's... shrinking down toward the set of responses that you want. They're most adaptive for the context that you're in. So that's maybe a bit buzzword heavy. I spend too much time in the lab and have to constantly get myself out of sight.
Michael Abney: But how do you adjust when you said there is a way? Like what is that way? Or what is the arena that that way is in? A lot of people will be interested in that.
Nate Roy: Yeah, absolutely. It's through training really. And people, you know, I think we've all caught a fitness bug, especially at this time of year, New Year's resolutionists are in the gym training our musculature, but you can train your brain in the same way. It involves setting a constraint that your physiology must meet in order to be successful in the task. And then that pattern becomes ingrained. So similar to in the lifting gym, the constraint might be you have to move. this heavy weight, move this heavy weight a bunch of times, your brain is going to prompt change such that you're equipped to do so in the future. That change being, you know, have an increased muscle mass. But it's the same for the brain. So you can put yourself deliberately in a context of adversity. And this can be a lot of different contexts. For example,
Michael Abney: Okay.
Nate Roy: We use physical adversity a lot in our program. So it's like an isometric hold, such as like a wall sit or an isometric, you're in a static lunge position where there's all this signaling coming up from your body to your brain, basically screaming at you to stop. So that's a source of adversity. Or, you know, maybe someone's like, all right, be quiet, like this meathead, like I'm not going to the gym right now, fine. Another source of adversity you can implement is emotional adversity. You can deliberately put yourself in context where you have to confront. things that hold you back from an emotional standpoint, or things that are emotionally distressing to you through visualization or reflection and modalities like that. it doesn't stop there. You don't just put yourself in the adversity. ⁓ must be coupled to task or again I say a constraint that forces to maintain precision ⁓ such that physiology cannot spiral. Your ⁓ breathing rate ⁓ get super high, you can't start to become jittery due to the fact that you must succeed in this task. So an example again of what that looks like to get very tangible for people is you have the adversity and this can be a variety of things. I gave the physical example, I gave the emotional example. And then at the same time you have a performance task that you have to succeed on. And it can be something incredibly simple. It's things that appear almost silly at the surface. Like we have our athletes in our program doing mental math and memory games, for example, while they're in these isometric hold positions. It doesn't really matter what the task is. It forces the mind and the nervous system to maintain precision while there's these signals screaming at you, these adversity signals. And this can be carried into a lot of different contexts. I'm talking about it in a more athletic performance sort of way because we prepare our athletes for on the field adversity, but you can prepare yourself for public speaking or whatever it is that might
Michael Abney: I love this.
Nate Roy: caused anxiety in your life in a similar manner.
Michael Abney: Well, die. Like ice bath, have you ever done an ice bath? That's the same, like when you were talking, I was like, that's what I had to do when I was in the ice bath. Because if I wasn't focusing solely on my breathing, I would have not made it. But like I did make it. But I was just doing that breath thing. I just did it to do it, to challenge myself. But now that you're saying this,
Nate Roy: I love, I love. Right.
Michael Abney: That makes me want to continue to do that. Whereas it was like...
Nate Roy: love to hear it. I have to pick at the ice bath thing because you know this this is all the rage right now and it can be very good but again we cannot allow our physiology to spiral and for most of us that will happen. We'll get in a freezing shower and ice bath and it's like your muscles get really tight you start breathing rate changes your mind basically panics so there must be a constraint to make sure that's not the case and it does demand some amount of creativity. I'm still working on this to develop things that are accessible to the masses, but it's anything that forces you to maintain precision. So it quite literally could be mental math or something like that, some phone game that demands that you keep your physiology intact in order to succeed. And what it does is it is hard wiring new patterns into your nervous system where the way we are wired more by nature that when we encounter this adversity, there's this inhibitory effect to ⁓ neural systems that grant precision of response. But if we continuously couple them in terms of these stimuli coming in at the same time, meaning the adversity and these precision networks are active while the adversity is present, well, most of us have heard that saying neurons that fire together wire together. So we rewire this new default pattern that actually then
Michael Abney: They're wired together, yeah.
Nate Roy: When you step into an adverse context, it actually activates your precision circuits instead of inhibiting them. And we all know people like that, right? Like we know the athlete who's like, like how does this person stay so calm under pressure or public speakers and things like that? There are a lot of reasons you could, you could look back at what they experienced in their childhood and whatnot that may have allowed them to develop in that manner. But what I'm saying is this is not up for chance. This is not something that's just genetic. We can control this.
Michael Abney: Yeah.
Nate Roy: We just have to put ourselves in front of the proper stimuli to develop these defaults. And that's why I'm so passionate about it because I see this that, again, it's this idea that adversity causes things to come constrained in terms of what we can do, and that does not have to be the case. We decide. It just takes intention on preparing ourselves in advance in order to tailor our patterns in a way that can be adaptive for us for what we want to achieve.
Michael Abney: Yeah. Is this where vulnerability or willingness to be vulnerable comes into play? Like because you're like, that's like, just, it's just going outside of our comfort zone, which for reason, you know, good or bad, that's where most people love to stay. So I think that's the main goal of life. But, you know, even with the podcast, like when I first started it, I wanted to do it, but then I started doing it. We started doing them live.
Nate Roy: Yes. Right.
Michael Abney: and never had a problem with that. But when I went like this was a huge shift for me. ⁓ Yeah, ⁓ huge. almost didn't continue it with like, you know, season six. I almost didn't, but I did. But then my love for the story kicked in on season six. And then season seven, ⁓
Nate Roy: Andrews.
Michael Abney: I'm meeting people like you and, you know, my imposter syndrome will kick in and like, why are these people talking to me? ⁓ what it did was it like made me want be better. It made me want to, get to that level where I wasn't thinking about it or had a constraint about about looking stupid or silly or whatever. But what it did was it made me ⁓ see the whole ⁓ create the context for exactly how I do it and then that process then allowed me just to be me, you know, that I could come in and do whatever I needed to do and have these amazing conversations and I know they're working because I'm now getting feedback that says X, you know, so I think it's on the same lines that we're, I'm just trying, every time you talk, I relate that to an aspect of my life that I never.
Nate Roy: Amazing.
Michael Abney: notice before. So thank you for that. It's just, I love anything that start. Yeah. Seeing that parallel. So as you're working with these guys, what gap are you trying to bridge with the capsule? Like help me see the, the, the spaces between the foundations that you're connected. Cause I know that they're connected on some level.
Nate Roy: Absolutely. I agree with Barry in parallel. Absolutely. Yeah, it was from seeing the limits of what I could achieve with Cortex Flex. So a bit more on what that is for anyone listening. We bring neuroscience to youth and teen athletics as a means to develop superior athletic abilities, but also elite life outcomes. So we prepare people for sport. We prepare people for life through neuroscience. Of course, in building this and in getting this insight, this opportunity to train in our program under this amazing staff of coaches who I've recruited out there, there were so many conversations that take place, like guess indirect sales, you can say, not really selling it, but just getting out and telling people. And often that was with decision makers for youth. So parents, ⁓ of athletic teams, ⁓ administrators. ⁓ And the whole time I had this idea that basically there's these insights in neuroscience that we must bring to the youth. I had spent a couple months, almost a year working in research Harvard in neuroscience. And that was my takeaway was almost, ⁓ do love research. I don't mean to hate on my own path, but almost like I'm more motivated to take this and carry it elsewhere. And, and ⁓
Michael Abney: Yeah.
Nate Roy: Back to answering the question a bit more directly, I had this thought like we need to bring this to youth. But then in these conversations and talking to decision makers, realized that they also felt like they were in the dark. ⁓ it made perfect sense because all this information is locked away in ⁓ and in laboratories. And I felt incredibly fortunate and privileged that I had the opportunity to go and study at such institutions and start to learn some of these things. But yet, you know, not everyone does. And not only that, but not everyone takes to it in this way. Not everyone's the nerd with the brand poster on their wall. Sometimes these things need to be made more accessible to people. So I thought we need something for the people who are boots on the ground shaping development. That's the teachers, that's the parents, that's the coaches, the school administrators. Because my formal career path is I'm... in the realm of people who are passionate about understanding development. It's scientists of neurodevelopment and psychological development. And then there's all these people that are passionate about shaping it. But it seemed to me, and I'm reminded of this on a daily basis, there's not enough crosstalk. People care about shaping it, people care about understanding it, but it's siloed. And I thought,
Michael Abney: Yeah.
Nate Roy: I cannot be the only person who cares about this and I cannot be the only person who's observed it. So I set about trying to find as many colleagues as I could, both within science and in medicine, and develop this team of people who cared about this. And we started working on information flow between these two camps, bringing science into communities for parents and for teachers and for coaches to use to tailor their approach to be more effective in what they aspire to do with the youth that they lead.
Michael Abney: Mm-hmm.
Nate Roy: And then it goes the other way too. really emphasize that, that it's bi-directional. So through all these conversations, through delivering the science, we're able to become critically aware of the needs and the tension points out there in the community, which are things that scientists and clinicians may not be as aware of. I mean, I'm guilty of this myself. You spend so much time in a lab. It's like sometimes you forget how the regular world works. It's just the nature of the game. So
Michael Abney: Hmm.
Nate Roy: I saw that we needed this intermediary and that's what Capsule is. It serves as an intermediary. And I find that there's so many connection points because a lot of these insights I've been ultimately bringing into the context of Cortex Flex to my coaching staff because we have to be able to bring science, the neuroscience of performance to the athletes. so in ways they are in that camp, right? They are people boots on the ground shaping development.
Michael Abney: Awesome. Yeah.
Nate Roy: And so these organizations, serve each other well and that's why I've been able to really throw so much of myself into both of them because this feels like me. it's ⁓
Michael Abney: is you saw the you saw the need in the bridge and you build in it. That's what that's all about. I love that this the. Well today, like because of my other conversation, I learned that you know at by the age were 30 that neuroplasticity sort of goes bye bye and that's kind of the way it is. And with your working with the youth, you're really that's where we can make the biggest impact for people's longevity and long life. And ⁓ know. I get it. So I was today years old when I figured that out and I heard that today. so, um, I, it's a private path, the fascination between the realms of, and she was, she's in Harvard as well too, but you're also an athlete and you know, as we're filming this, the Olympics are going on right now and you shared that you were on the bobsledding team for team USA, but you tore your ACL. Like, so what does that change?
Nate Roy: Right.
Michael Abney: relationship to resilience and being this and watching this and having this real-time experience right now with with watching your team and how is all that going?
Nate Roy: Yeah, it's been a wave of emotions, both positive and negative, of course. But I think to relate it to everything we've talked about thus far, it's forced me back into this role of student in a really healthy way, where it's easy to stand up there again on this pedestal, basically, and talk about being resilient to adversity when you're living in a context that isn't that adverse. And I did realize that. You know, of course I have daily adversity, but at the same time I'm speaking about adversity and a lot of the people I'm attempting to help are going through things that I can't possibly comprehend. And even now that remains the case, but yet this was an event that rocked my world. I had my sights set on the 2026 games and this came out of nowhere as injuries do. And it forced me to become a learner of everything I was preaching, you know. I'm thinking about not only the physical adaptation, but the psychological adaptation to such an event. And I've been living it. I'm three months post surgery at this point. And as you said, watching the Olympic year unfold on the sidelines, thinking about my future as a bobsled athlete and all of these things. it's allowed me to step back into the spot. ⁓ of being what I would say in the lab for these things. Like I'm actively testing, I'm experimenting, I'm learning, and that just sharpens my perspective and what I can bring to the athletes who I work with and the coaches who I work with who then lead athletes. One of the things that more tangibly that came of this is I became aware that there were a bunch of in Cortex Flex who we train who had specifically ACL tears and other ligament tears. fall, we work with a lot of football athletes, so it's unfortunately part of the game. And so I started a club, ⁓ Cortex ACL club, Cortex ACL rehab club. And it's been amazing for a variety of reasons. There's the learning element. But then outside of, again, we talked about soft versus hard in terms of neurological and psychological training.
Michael Abney: Mm-hmm.
Nate Roy: I there's a lot of neural prediction going on, there's a lot of modeling, whether it's conscious or not, where it's like, okay, well, here's this guy, you know, he was talking about the Olympics, and now all of a sudden he's home training in his garage and he can barely walk. ⁓ he's motivated, he's showing up full of fire, he's excited about the future, he's doing all these things, ⁓ ⁓ sets a almost in. It's almost what I would call expectancy engineering for everyone else where it's like, all right, well, that's what it looks like. That's why I'm headed as well. And so it's been, it's been an amazing process. can't say it's all positive, but sometimes it is these more negative things that like force adaptation. It's yet another constraint.
Michael Abney: Yeah. what makes the battery work. It needs both. It needs both.
Nate Roy: Very much agreed.
Michael Abney: I appreciate that. Do you have a sense of like who you're becoming out of this?
Nate Roy: Ooh, I love the question. I would say I'm becoming someone who can be depended on tremendously for variety of things. ⁓ if someone is looking for support, guidance, and route to their goals in many different domains, I'd like to say I'm becoming a person who they can lean on. But at the same time, I'm becoming a person who can maximally lean on those around me as well in the process. I think that's beautiful and it's far from complete, but that's where I'm headed.
Michael Abney: is the mayor. I love that. It's beautiful because you have to have both. It's connected. Yeah. So are you are you ready for your closing question? Okay, for somebody listening who feels stuck in their own personal growth or development, but feels overwhelmed by all of the information, the noise that's out there, they really can't hear their signal. Where should they begin?
Nate Roy: I already agreed. Essential. I'm ready for it. Another excellent question, I think it's something I could talk on forever. But since you asked for a starting point... My answer is to ignore the information. It's not really about learning, at least not directly. Like I feel like someone could listen to this and be like, yeah, well this guy, like, he understands the brain and all these things. One thing I'd say is I don't, I'm still learning, I'm far from there. But at the same time, it's not about that. Again, not directly at least. It's about selecting environments. put yourself in environments ⁓ and the learning happens on autopilot. So what I mean by that very directly is step into environments of being the leader and of being the student as well. That can happen tomorrow. It doesn't need to be anything substantial. You don't need to be able found something. Look around you about who might be looking for guidance. Hint for that is everybody.
Michael Abney: Yeah. Yeah.
Nate Roy: and step into that role for them. And then at the same time, think about where you might want guidance or you might be seeking learning and become a student in those categories. And it does just like anything else, it takes discipline. But that's why the environment is so critical because if you put yourself in these arenas, it's a constraint. It demands that it be the case. It demands that you adapt to being leader and student. ⁓
Michael Abney: Yeah.
Nate Roy: That's my advice is select the environments and I think we can all do that effective immediately.
Michael Abney: and immediately. be a great title for this one. I love it. Thank you so much for reminding us that growth it really is not about having it all figured out at all. It's just about staying in the work and staying in the game. So I appreciate you sharing your story with us today.
Nate Roy: Morning. For sure. Thank you for the invite. I loved being here.
Michael Abney: It's amazing. absolutely love it. 33 conversations actually exists to explore the humans behind the mission, the nervous systems behind the mindsets and regulated, aware, connected. That's where real change begins. So consider taking some time today to add a little nervous system regulation to your daily routine, explore your body, what it's asking for, and make it a reality. Not tomorrow, today. Thank you guys for watching and listening. I so appreciate you and can't wait to see you on the next one. But bye for now. See you guys.
