00:00:03
Speaker 1: Now, we often hear that a parent's love is is unconditional. What does that mean? What does that really mean when you are pushed to your absolute limits? Gina is the mother of a 12 year old Brody, a little boy. whose life has been shaped by a complex combination of neurological, psychiatric and physical health conditions. And over the years, there have been countless appointments with doctors, psychologists and specialists, multiple diagnoses and an exhausting battle to get her son the help that he needs. He's 12 years old now and Brodie and his family find themselves at a crossroads facing some Facing some really difficult decisions about his future, the future of the family, Gina's documented their journey in a very personal, very honest book called Unconditional. Surviving and loving a child the world doesn't understand. And it's a story about the realities of parenting a child with complex needs, often when you don't really know what those needs are, the toll that that takes on the whole family, and really... A mom's determination not to give up on her kid. And Gina joins me now. Welcome.
00:01:29
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
00:01:32
Speaker 1: I've read bits of your book and all of it I found very, very difficult reading. And I think had I read it seven years ago before I became a parent, I would have viewed it very differently. But the minute you become a parent, your perspective on life changes because your perspective on your capacity, your understanding of your capacity for love changes, doesn't it? You have no concept. And I remember saying this when I when I gave birth to my to my daughter and the.
00:02:09
Speaker 2: It's not.
00:02:10
Speaker 1: Of course, we go, it's a love you'll never know. And it's like, yeah, it's also a fear. You'll never know. The fear that comes with now there's this little being that I need to.
00:02:20
Speaker 2: Take care of.
00:02:22
Speaker 1: So thank you, first of all, for finding the courage to write this book. Before we get into some of the more difficult aspects of your story, tell us about Brodie.
00:02:33
Speaker 2: Who is he?
00:02:34
Speaker 1: He's 12 now, right?
00:02:34
Speaker 2: He's just turned 13.
00:02:35
Speaker 1: Just turned 13.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:02:37
Speaker 1: Gosh, you've got a teenager. All right. Who is Brodie?
00:02:42
Speaker 2: Brodie.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: Is a very interesting person. He, on the one side, is kind, loving, gentle. And on the other side, there's manipulation and, you know, a lot of severe pain he's caused towards the family.
00:03:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:03:02
Speaker 3: To this day, you know, I started intervening when he was about five when an incident happened. And I started at that point. And since then till now, I haven't stopped intervening with doctors, assessments, facilities, all sorts of things. And, you know, I'm at a point now where he's turned 13 and I actually don't know who he is. I don't know who he is, what I thought he was and what I thought everything was going to be is not what it is today.
00:03:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You write about noticing quite early on that Brodie was experiencing the world differently to other children. What were those first signs, do you know?
00:03:51
Speaker 3: Okay, so when he was first born, the autism showed first. So not wanting to go in water, not letting me cut his nails, you know, very difficult with sensory things. As he got bigger, he used to knock into people. And we realized that, you know, with assistance from Oti, that he has a lot of sensory things. So he needs like deep pressure. With that being said, As he got a bit older, something happened with an animal. It wasn't too severe, but it was a bit of a shock. And with that happening, I started with getting assessments done. So we went from doctor to doctor. We eventually spent about seven years with a psychiatrist who specializes in pediatrics. You know, every year with the therapies, you're in and out. And, you know, the doctors, it's just more meds and different meds. And, you know, they just keep adding different layers onto, you know, the basis of things. And for us, you know, obviously not everyone's in the space, but I know that there are families going through this sort of thing.
00:05:06
Speaker 2: And, you know, for us... We got to a point where.
00:05:10
Speaker 3: It was almost impossible to live as a family to the point that my husband and I were talking about splitting up just to keep the kids apart.
00:05:20
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:05:21
Speaker 1: What's the age difference between your boys?
00:05:24
Speaker 2: One and a half years.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: Okay, which is a small gap.
00:05:27
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:05:29
Speaker 1: At what point did you start noticing that your youngest son was being impacted by Brodie's behaviour?
00:05:36
Speaker 3: 2013, he started having physical issues and he started failing at school and he became extremely difficult. And we took him also for therapies and assessments. They did misdiagnose him based on the fact of what he was representing at the time, purely because no one had any idea that.
00:06:05
Speaker 2: We were actually going through this.
00:06:06
Speaker 3: We had no idea until staff came out and we realized the situation is a lot more complicated. I want to say dangerous, but that's not really the right word, but damaging than we had anticipated.
00:06:22
Speaker 2: You know, Brody, he wouldn't go to school no matter what we did.
00:06:27
Speaker 3: He wouldn't do chores. It was just literally nothing that was smooth. It was constant picking on his brother, constant fighting, fighting. And and my younger son, he took a hell of a lot of strain. You know, we got to a point where we like locked the doors at night because, you know, the situation felt so unsafe and so unsteady. Not to say that Brody was going to do anything severe, but the feelings are still there. And, you know, through all the experiences we've had with him. And Caleb has definitely now, since we've had a bit of space from Brody, he's definitely coming back to the person he used to be, which shows that the environment was highly damaging.
00:07:19
Speaker 2: For me as well.
00:07:20
Speaker 3: I had a few breakdowns and ended up in the clinic a few times just from the overwhelm of not, you know, not being able to control anything in my life and in my family's lives.
00:07:31
Speaker 1: One of the, and you've mentioned that there have been multiple diagnoses for Brodie over the years, ADHD, autism, one of them bipolar. That, again, to hear a young child being diagnosed with bipolar is a lot. Most people can't really get their brains around that. And then there was the issue of this conduct disorder, which is what now you've had a sort of definitive diagnosis. Can you just explain to our listeners what conduct disorder is?
00:08:07
Speaker 3: Okay, so in a nutshell, conduct disorder... with callous and emotional traits is a child under the age of 18. Um, they, they use this diagnosis. So a lot of people will know ODD and PDA, um, who've experienced, uh, difficult kids. And it's an advanced level of that where the child does not have the capability for empathy and remorse. And with that, you know, the learnings don't happen. And as well, um, there's no limitation in theory to, to what you can expect.
00:08:45
Speaker 2: So it just feels very unsettling. And, um, ultimately.
00:08:50
Speaker 1: Is it a personality on the personality?
00:08:52
Speaker 2: It's a personality disorder.
00:08:54
Speaker 3: Um, as an adult, depending on, you know, um, how you intervene and the therapies, there's a chance that there's a resolution and that the children or the child can come back into society. Um, You know, it is a form of antisocial personality disorder. Yes, so we don't know, you know, where this sort of stuff comes from, personality things.
00:09:21
Speaker 2: The autism, all of that.
00:09:23
Speaker 3: You know, everything's been questioned now because of this. Everything kind of overlaps and it's not very clear. But what is clear is that there's personality issues. And, you know, the only feelings he feels at this stage is how things affect him.
00:09:39
Speaker 1: Right.
00:09:39
Speaker 2: And what he needs immediately.
00:09:41
Speaker 3: Right.
00:09:42
Speaker 1: Do you know, we've had people who sit in the seat, psychiatrists, many, and psychologists and all the people with all the letters after their name. And the thing that overwhelmingly comes up, specifically when we're talking about personality disorders, is they always point back to some sort of childhood trauma. Now, we're in that childhood. We're in that period. And one thing about about your book. It felt very urgent. It felt like a clock was, you know, the time was ticking.
00:10:07
Speaker 2: That's how I felt. Right, yeah.
00:10:09
Speaker 1: And that very much comes through in the book. And a lot of the conversations, again, that we have on the show, and we've had a conversation the other day about borderline. We constantly seem to be talking about narcissists just generally in society. And the issue that comes up is once you've got somebody with a personality in adulthood, the likelihood of being able to treat that is less.
00:10:32
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely less.
00:10:34
Speaker 1: And particularly with something like antisocial or with narcissism, because the person themselves doesn't actually see that there's a problem or is unwilling to do the things. So that sense that I felt in your book of we need to catch him now, we need to work out what's going on now so we can do that now. I felt that very, very keenly. It's almost like we're seeing the before now.
00:10:58
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:10:59
Speaker 3: And that's what I'm so grateful for is the fact that I haven't given up and I haven't stopped pushing. You know, it's been very isolating. We've lost friends and, you know, it's basically just been us as a family.
00:11:13
Speaker 2: But I don't know. Yes.
00:11:16
Speaker 1: There's nothing more. There's nothing more lonely than parenting in the sense that you don't have parenting without the feeling of parenting without a village. And I can't imagine what it must be like feeling that. And there's sort of stigma attached to the to the thing, because at the end of the day, you're just parents who love their kid and want the best for him. And yet I'm sure that you've had people kind of, you know, first me probably giving unsolicited advice or saying, oh, you should just give him a clap. Or I'm sure there's a whole range of things.
00:11:51
Speaker 2: Talk to me about.
00:11:52
Speaker 1: And we can talk about Brodie a little bit more, but I want to talk about how you have coped as a mom. And because when we carry our children and we give birth to them and they're these cute little babies and we go, you know, and you have all these hopes and dreams for your kid, don't you? And some of them are, you know, it's about managing our expectations because at the end of the day, they are not extensions of us. They are their own little creations and beings. And we kind of have to make peace with that. But when you're dealing with somebody who has needs as complex as Brody, I imagine that your heart has probably broken every single day since he.
00:12:28
Speaker 2: Was a little one.
00:12:29
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I, you know, obviously, like you said, we all had dreams and, but I've had to grieve the fact that his life is never going to be a standard, you know, in the box, pretty little happily ever after. It's always going to be complex. He'll probably be with us for the rest of his life if there's not enough evolution for him to go back into society. So we'll have to make ways to, you know, give him everything he needs.
00:12:55
Speaker 2: He's capable.
00:12:56
Speaker 3: I mean, he's, you know, he's smart and he's definitely capable of doing anything. The problem is that with the personality stuff that stops the, you know, bringing emotions into things, it does become complex.
00:13:14
Speaker 2: Does he have friends? he has sort of one friend, right?
00:13:21
Speaker 3: Sort of who's put up with him, but, um, no, he doesn't have friends per se. Like he, he creates the friendships. Um, he's lost a lot of friends. He was always bullied.
00:13:34
Speaker 2: And picked on.
00:13:34
Speaker 1: Right.
00:13:35
Speaker 2: Um, because he's always been different.
00:13:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:13:38
Speaker 3: So we went from mainstream into special needs for many years. Unfortunately, that didn't even hold him. Um, You know, he had a hectic breakdown. This is where the bipolar was diagnosed and he was very suicidal and hurting himself at the beginning of last year. And so he went into a clinic and it was just so intense. And that was from bullying because he takes things extremely personally. Like if you say, I don't like your shirt, like it's a huge attack on his... on his personal self. So there's a lot of things that need to be developed.
00:14:16
Speaker 1: Do you know, as a mom, do you ask, do you, I mean, you've been, you've been trying to find help for him for so long on a diagnosis, but do you ask, where did this come from? Do you sit and think, did we miss something?
00:14:29
Speaker 2: Of course. The trauma.
00:14:30
Speaker 1: How do you reconcile that? Because if there's no answer to that, it must feel like grabbing notes in the wind. I mean, so how do you, How have you come to or have you come to any peace around maybe you'll never know why he's like this?
00:14:45
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:14:45
Speaker 3: So there's two sides that I've chatted to his counsellor about. You know, there's the side that perhaps something happened that we're not aware of. And we're trying to get that out of the subconscious. And he would have had to have been very, very small, very small. The other thing is that it could just be what it is and it could maybe be a result of nothing. Really?
00:15:14
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. But, you know, these are the things.
00:15:17
Speaker 3: So if nothing's coming out and there's no explanation, then it can only be the fact that this is just how he's made. And he just was built without these capabilities of emotional attachment and so on with that other people have. So it is a very interesting area because it's actually not well documented. And there's a lot of families who are going through this and there just isn't a place for kids like this.
00:15:43
Speaker 1: What sort of support have you found here for yourself and for you and for the rest of your family, if any? Are there other families going through it that you can, is there another mum that you can pick up the phone to and say, I'm having a terrible day?
00:16:00
Speaker 3: Yes, I've got two friends that are very supportive. One is going through a similar situation, not the same, but with issues. And the other one is the one who stuck by me, even though there was so much drama. So I do contact them. I've got my mom.
00:16:14
Speaker 1: But in terms of other families going through similar with perhaps conduct disorder with a child who is displaying the same. behaviors, the manipulation, the lack of empathy, because that's very specific.
00:16:28
Speaker 2: Exactly.
00:16:28
Speaker 3: I'm trying to reach those families with a book and create dialogue about how hard it is and, you know, kind of create a community because we're not accepted in general standards.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: And You know, it's very complex. It's very draining.
00:16:43
Speaker 3: But families like us who can talk and be open and honest about the realities because people constantly put on a show and don't really talk. And I feel like that is the hugest problem is that there was nobody that we could reach out to.
00:16:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:17:00
Speaker 1: Somebody sending in a message saying, gosh, listening to this woman, it must be incredibly hard. She's absolutely amazing. Yeah, you are amazing.
00:17:07
Speaker 2: Thank you.
00:17:08
Speaker 1: Listen, how can people get hold of your book? How can they get in touch with you? We've only got a minute left. So I want to make sure that I've got the details for everybody.
00:17:15
Speaker 3: OK, so I've got a website. It's www.ginag.co.za. All my information, the book, everything is on there.
00:17:27
Speaker 2: All right.
00:17:27
Speaker 1: Gina, it's been a real pleasure to have you in studio. Thank you. Thank you for coming and sharing your story. Please give our love to Brodie, to Caleb and to your other half. It has stuck with me, your book. And, you know, from one parent to another, you are doing a fantastic job.
00:17:44
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
00:17:44
Speaker 1: You are doing a fantastic job. It's 7.59. You're listening to Weekend Breakfast. Coming up after eight o'clock, we're going inside the Velvet Tent. Madam Zingara is back and we've got all the details for you.
Speaker 1: Now, we often hear that a parent's love is is unconditional. What does that mean? What does that really mean when you are pushed to your absolute limits? Gina is the mother of a 12 year old Brody, a little boy. whose life has been shaped by a complex combination of neurological, psychiatric and physical health conditions. And over the years, there have been countless appointments with doctors, psychologists and specialists, multiple diagnoses and an exhausting battle to get her son the help that he needs. He's 12 years old now and Brodie and his family find themselves at a crossroads facing some Facing some really difficult decisions about his future, the future of the family, Gina's documented their journey in a very personal, very honest book called Unconditional. Surviving and loving a child the world doesn't understand. And it's a story about the realities of parenting a child with complex needs, often when you don't really know what those needs are, the toll that that takes on the whole family, and really... A mom's determination not to give up on her kid. And Gina joins me now. Welcome.
00:01:29
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
00:01:32
Speaker 1: I've read bits of your book and all of it I found very, very difficult reading. And I think had I read it seven years ago before I became a parent, I would have viewed it very differently. But the minute you become a parent, your perspective on life changes because your perspective on your capacity, your understanding of your capacity for love changes, doesn't it? You have no concept. And I remember saying this when I when I gave birth to my to my daughter and the.
00:02:09
Speaker 2: It's not.
00:02:10
Speaker 1: Of course, we go, it's a love you'll never know. And it's like, yeah, it's also a fear. You'll never know. The fear that comes with now there's this little being that I need to.
00:02:20
Speaker 2: Take care of.
00:02:22
Speaker 1: So thank you, first of all, for finding the courage to write this book. Before we get into some of the more difficult aspects of your story, tell us about Brodie.
00:02:33
Speaker 2: Who is he?
00:02:34
Speaker 1: He's 12 now, right?
00:02:34
Speaker 2: He's just turned 13.
00:02:35
Speaker 1: Just turned 13.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:02:37
Speaker 1: Gosh, you've got a teenager. All right. Who is Brodie?
00:02:42
Speaker 2: Brodie.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: Is a very interesting person. He, on the one side, is kind, loving, gentle. And on the other side, there's manipulation and, you know, a lot of severe pain he's caused towards the family.
00:03:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:03:02
Speaker 3: To this day, you know, I started intervening when he was about five when an incident happened. And I started at that point. And since then till now, I haven't stopped intervening with doctors, assessments, facilities, all sorts of things. And, you know, I'm at a point now where he's turned 13 and I actually don't know who he is. I don't know who he is, what I thought he was and what I thought everything was going to be is not what it is today.
00:03:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You write about noticing quite early on that Brodie was experiencing the world differently to other children. What were those first signs, do you know?
00:03:51
Speaker 3: Okay, so when he was first born, the autism showed first. So not wanting to go in water, not letting me cut his nails, you know, very difficult with sensory things. As he got bigger, he used to knock into people. And we realized that, you know, with assistance from Oti, that he has a lot of sensory things. So he needs like deep pressure. With that being said, As he got a bit older, something happened with an animal. It wasn't too severe, but it was a bit of a shock. And with that happening, I started with getting assessments done. So we went from doctor to doctor. We eventually spent about seven years with a psychiatrist who specializes in pediatrics. You know, every year with the therapies, you're in and out. And, you know, the doctors, it's just more meds and different meds. And, you know, they just keep adding different layers onto, you know, the basis of things. And for us, you know, obviously not everyone's in the space, but I know that there are families going through this sort of thing.
00:05:06
Speaker 2: And, you know, for us... We got to a point where.
00:05:10
Speaker 3: It was almost impossible to live as a family to the point that my husband and I were talking about splitting up just to keep the kids apart.
00:05:20
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:05:21
Speaker 1: What's the age difference between your boys?
00:05:24
Speaker 2: One and a half years.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: Okay, which is a small gap.
00:05:27
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:05:29
Speaker 1: At what point did you start noticing that your youngest son was being impacted by Brodie's behaviour?
00:05:36
Speaker 3: 2013, he started having physical issues and he started failing at school and he became extremely difficult. And we took him also for therapies and assessments. They did misdiagnose him based on the fact of what he was representing at the time, purely because no one had any idea that.
00:06:05
Speaker 2: We were actually going through this.
00:06:06
Speaker 3: We had no idea until staff came out and we realized the situation is a lot more complicated. I want to say dangerous, but that's not really the right word, but damaging than we had anticipated.
00:06:22
Speaker 2: You know, Brody, he wouldn't go to school no matter what we did.
00:06:27
Speaker 3: He wouldn't do chores. It was just literally nothing that was smooth. It was constant picking on his brother, constant fighting, fighting. And and my younger son, he took a hell of a lot of strain. You know, we got to a point where we like locked the doors at night because, you know, the situation felt so unsafe and so unsteady. Not to say that Brody was going to do anything severe, but the feelings are still there. And, you know, through all the experiences we've had with him. And Caleb has definitely now, since we've had a bit of space from Brody, he's definitely coming back to the person he used to be, which shows that the environment was highly damaging.
00:07:19
Speaker 2: For me as well.
00:07:20
Speaker 3: I had a few breakdowns and ended up in the clinic a few times just from the overwhelm of not, you know, not being able to control anything in my life and in my family's lives.
00:07:31
Speaker 1: One of the, and you've mentioned that there have been multiple diagnoses for Brodie over the years, ADHD, autism, one of them bipolar. That, again, to hear a young child being diagnosed with bipolar is a lot. Most people can't really get their brains around that. And then there was the issue of this conduct disorder, which is what now you've had a sort of definitive diagnosis. Can you just explain to our listeners what conduct disorder is?
00:08:07
Speaker 3: Okay, so in a nutshell, conduct disorder... with callous and emotional traits is a child under the age of 18. Um, they, they use this diagnosis. So a lot of people will know ODD and PDA, um, who've experienced, uh, difficult kids. And it's an advanced level of that where the child does not have the capability for empathy and remorse. And with that, you know, the learnings don't happen. And as well, um, there's no limitation in theory to, to what you can expect.
00:08:45
Speaker 2: So it just feels very unsettling. And, um, ultimately.
00:08:50
Speaker 1: Is it a personality on the personality?
00:08:52
Speaker 2: It's a personality disorder.
00:08:54
Speaker 3: Um, as an adult, depending on, you know, um, how you intervene and the therapies, there's a chance that there's a resolution and that the children or the child can come back into society. Um, You know, it is a form of antisocial personality disorder. Yes, so we don't know, you know, where this sort of stuff comes from, personality things.
00:09:21
Speaker 2: The autism, all of that.
00:09:23
Speaker 3: You know, everything's been questioned now because of this. Everything kind of overlaps and it's not very clear. But what is clear is that there's personality issues. And, you know, the only feelings he feels at this stage is how things affect him.
00:09:39
Speaker 1: Right.
00:09:39
Speaker 2: And what he needs immediately.
00:09:41
Speaker 3: Right.
00:09:42
Speaker 1: Do you know, we've had people who sit in the seat, psychiatrists, many, and psychologists and all the people with all the letters after their name. And the thing that overwhelmingly comes up, specifically when we're talking about personality disorders, is they always point back to some sort of childhood trauma. Now, we're in that childhood. We're in that period. And one thing about about your book. It felt very urgent. It felt like a clock was, you know, the time was ticking.
00:10:07
Speaker 2: That's how I felt. Right, yeah.
00:10:09
Speaker 1: And that very much comes through in the book. And a lot of the conversations, again, that we have on the show, and we've had a conversation the other day about borderline. We constantly seem to be talking about narcissists just generally in society. And the issue that comes up is once you've got somebody with a personality in adulthood, the likelihood of being able to treat that is less.
00:10:32
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely less.
00:10:34
Speaker 1: And particularly with something like antisocial or with narcissism, because the person themselves doesn't actually see that there's a problem or is unwilling to do the things. So that sense that I felt in your book of we need to catch him now, we need to work out what's going on now so we can do that now. I felt that very, very keenly. It's almost like we're seeing the before now.
00:10:58
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:10:59
Speaker 3: And that's what I'm so grateful for is the fact that I haven't given up and I haven't stopped pushing. You know, it's been very isolating. We've lost friends and, you know, it's basically just been us as a family.
00:11:13
Speaker 2: But I don't know. Yes.
00:11:16
Speaker 1: There's nothing more. There's nothing more lonely than parenting in the sense that you don't have parenting without the feeling of parenting without a village. And I can't imagine what it must be like feeling that. And there's sort of stigma attached to the to the thing, because at the end of the day, you're just parents who love their kid and want the best for him. And yet I'm sure that you've had people kind of, you know, first me probably giving unsolicited advice or saying, oh, you should just give him a clap. Or I'm sure there's a whole range of things.
00:11:51
Speaker 2: Talk to me about.
00:11:52
Speaker 1: And we can talk about Brodie a little bit more, but I want to talk about how you have coped as a mom. And because when we carry our children and we give birth to them and they're these cute little babies and we go, you know, and you have all these hopes and dreams for your kid, don't you? And some of them are, you know, it's about managing our expectations because at the end of the day, they are not extensions of us. They are their own little creations and beings. And we kind of have to make peace with that. But when you're dealing with somebody who has needs as complex as Brody, I imagine that your heart has probably broken every single day since he.
00:12:28
Speaker 2: Was a little one.
00:12:29
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I, you know, obviously, like you said, we all had dreams and, but I've had to grieve the fact that his life is never going to be a standard, you know, in the box, pretty little happily ever after. It's always going to be complex. He'll probably be with us for the rest of his life if there's not enough evolution for him to go back into society. So we'll have to make ways to, you know, give him everything he needs.
00:12:55
Speaker 2: He's capable.
00:12:56
Speaker 3: I mean, he's, you know, he's smart and he's definitely capable of doing anything. The problem is that with the personality stuff that stops the, you know, bringing emotions into things, it does become complex.
00:13:14
Speaker 2: Does he have friends? he has sort of one friend, right?
00:13:21
Speaker 3: Sort of who's put up with him, but, um, no, he doesn't have friends per se. Like he, he creates the friendships. Um, he's lost a lot of friends. He was always bullied.
00:13:34
Speaker 2: And picked on.
00:13:34
Speaker 1: Right.
00:13:35
Speaker 2: Um, because he's always been different.
00:13:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:13:38
Speaker 3: So we went from mainstream into special needs for many years. Unfortunately, that didn't even hold him. Um, You know, he had a hectic breakdown. This is where the bipolar was diagnosed and he was very suicidal and hurting himself at the beginning of last year. And so he went into a clinic and it was just so intense. And that was from bullying because he takes things extremely personally. Like if you say, I don't like your shirt, like it's a huge attack on his... on his personal self. So there's a lot of things that need to be developed.
00:14:16
Speaker 1: Do you know, as a mom, do you ask, do you, I mean, you've been, you've been trying to find help for him for so long on a diagnosis, but do you ask, where did this come from? Do you sit and think, did we miss something?
00:14:29
Speaker 2: Of course. The trauma.
00:14:30
Speaker 1: How do you reconcile that? Because if there's no answer to that, it must feel like grabbing notes in the wind. I mean, so how do you, How have you come to or have you come to any peace around maybe you'll never know why he's like this?
00:14:45
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:14:45
Speaker 3: So there's two sides that I've chatted to his counsellor about. You know, there's the side that perhaps something happened that we're not aware of. And we're trying to get that out of the subconscious. And he would have had to have been very, very small, very small. The other thing is that it could just be what it is and it could maybe be a result of nothing. Really?
00:15:14
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. But, you know, these are the things.
00:15:17
Speaker 3: So if nothing's coming out and there's no explanation, then it can only be the fact that this is just how he's made. And he just was built without these capabilities of emotional attachment and so on with that other people have. So it is a very interesting area because it's actually not well documented. And there's a lot of families who are going through this and there just isn't a place for kids like this.
00:15:43
Speaker 1: What sort of support have you found here for yourself and for you and for the rest of your family, if any? Are there other families going through it that you can, is there another mum that you can pick up the phone to and say, I'm having a terrible day?
00:16:00
Speaker 3: Yes, I've got two friends that are very supportive. One is going through a similar situation, not the same, but with issues. And the other one is the one who stuck by me, even though there was so much drama. So I do contact them. I've got my mom.
00:16:14
Speaker 1: But in terms of other families going through similar with perhaps conduct disorder with a child who is displaying the same. behaviors, the manipulation, the lack of empathy, because that's very specific.
00:16:28
Speaker 2: Exactly.
00:16:28
Speaker 3: I'm trying to reach those families with a book and create dialogue about how hard it is and, you know, kind of create a community because we're not accepted in general standards.
00:16:40
Speaker 2: And You know, it's very complex. It's very draining.
00:16:43
Speaker 3: But families like us who can talk and be open and honest about the realities because people constantly put on a show and don't really talk. And I feel like that is the hugest problem is that there was nobody that we could reach out to.
00:16:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:17:00
Speaker 1: Somebody sending in a message saying, gosh, listening to this woman, it must be incredibly hard. She's absolutely amazing. Yeah, you are amazing.
00:17:07
Speaker 2: Thank you.
00:17:08
Speaker 1: Listen, how can people get hold of your book? How can they get in touch with you? We've only got a minute left. So I want to make sure that I've got the details for everybody.
00:17:15
Speaker 3: OK, so I've got a website. It's www.ginag.co.za. All my information, the book, everything is on there.
00:17:27
Speaker 2: All right.
00:17:27
Speaker 1: Gina, it's been a real pleasure to have you in studio. Thank you. Thank you for coming and sharing your story. Please give our love to Brodie, to Caleb and to your other half. It has stuck with me, your book. And, you know, from one parent to another, you are doing a fantastic job.
00:17:44
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
00:17:44
Speaker 1: You are doing a fantastic job. It's 7.59. You're listening to Weekend Breakfast. Coming up after eight o'clock, we're going inside the Velvet Tent. Madam Zingara is back and we've got all the details for you.
