WKPWP Interview Classic (10-10-2016): Keller interviews ex-WCW announcer Scott Hudson with insights from Monday Night War, fall of WCW, more

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Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Podcast.
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On today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, we bring you
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an interview classic from 10 years ago. This is Scott Hudson,
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ex-WCW announcer for many years before the Nitro era and,
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of course, during the Nitro era, with fascinating insights from
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the Monday Night War. He talks about the fall of WCW,
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talks about Goldberg's rise and return, and more. Scott Hudson
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was a correspondent for Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter during the
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late 80s, early 90s, center stage taping era. He went
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to all those WCW shows and many other shows also
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and ended up working for WCW as an announcer. So,
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It was really fun talking with him here and getting
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his insights for about an hour and a half on
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his time working for WCW as a play-by-play on-camera announcer
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during a very high-profile time for that company.
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So let's get to it.
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Again, this originally live-streamed on October 13, 2016.
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Welcome to the PWTorch Livecast.
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I am Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro
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Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter since 1987. Also, PWTorch.com, the website
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updated every day with news, results, commentary, flashbacks, and more
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since 1999.
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That's PWTorch.com.
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And also, our sister brand, MMATorch.com, covering the world of
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mixed martial arts, MMA, Bellator, and more. Every single day
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with news, exclusive features, columns, roundtable reviews, trivia, and flashbacks.
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Check it out. Add it to your list of how
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you keep up on the world of MMA.
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Big news with Ronda Rousey this week that we are
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covering with various news stories and commentary throughout the week.
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Will George St. Pierre be added to UFC 206 in Toronto?
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The graphic at UFC.com still has TBD versus TBD to
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be determined with shadow figures as the main event. Last night,
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Dana White told Daniel Cormier on FS1' s UFC Tonight, you
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should be the main event.
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You are the main event. There should not be a TBD.
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I think Dana got caught as he was trying to
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act coy about there being another match announced and told Cormier,
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don't worry, you're the main event, despite the fact that
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you're listed as a semi-main event below two mystery fighters.
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So a lot of news.
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This is going to be, if they sign GSP, well,
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even if they don't, but if they sign GSP for
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December 10th in Toronto, this will be the biggest quarter
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by the widest margin imaginable in UFC revenue history when
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it comes to pay-per-view with 205, 206, and 207. Conor McGregor, GSP,
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Ronda Rousey. Keep up on all of that over at MMATorch.com.
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Thanks for joining me today here at PWTorch Livecast. This
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will be the fourth day in a row that I've
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hosted the livecast. Monday, right after Raw, a solo show. Tuesday,
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right after Raw, with PWTorch contributor and columnist Greg Parks,
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who's covered SmackDown for PWTorch.com for many years. And then Wednesday,
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Pat McNeil joined me for the midweek flagship, where we
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covered A lot of hot topics in professional wrestling with
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a particular focus on Goldberg and Brock Lesnar. But quite
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a bit more with callers and some good email questions too.
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Check that out if you haven't yet. And today, Thursday,
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October 13th, 2016, it is Interview Thursday. And I'm very
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pleased to introduce our guest on today's program, a first-time
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guest on the PWTorch Livecast, former WCW, Monday Night War
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era announcer, Scott Hudson, a longtime friend. Scott, welcome to
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the PWTorch Livecast.
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Wade, I feel so old that I wrote my wife
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an email and said, I'm going to do Wade Keller's
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podcast today. I said, I don't think I've talked to
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Wade in like 20 years, but we talked like every
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week for the 10 years prior to that, and then
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I added that up, and that's been 30 years. So
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I'm ancient.
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I'm ancient.
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I don't know what to tell you.
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We are in our 30th year as of this month
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of the pro wrestling torch newsletter. So, um, next October,
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it'll be 30 complete years, but we are in our
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30th year. I know I would have, I would have
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never imagined that I'd be able to host a podcast
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live from my home office and, uh, I remember.
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You saying back in 87 that one day you were
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going to host a podcast. I'll verify that.
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Well, it's too bad now that I'm so old I
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forget stuff like that then because that would be great
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to brag about.
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Scott, it's great having you on.
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You were a correspondent for the newsletter for the WCW
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TV tapings out of Atlanta.
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What a different time.
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John Arezzi from Pro Wrestling Spotlight I have on the
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show semi-regularly, and on our VIP site we feature his
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radio shows that he did based out of New York.
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from the late 80s through the mid 90s. And we
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have him on the show. I have him on the
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show as my guest. In fact, I just did eight
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days ago on the midweek Wednesday show last week. And,
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you know, we always I try not to get too
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far off on this tangent. It's not a tangent. It's
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a history lesson. And it's important to the history of
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wrestling journalism and how wrestling has been covered. And I mean,
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it is so different today than it was, needless to say, 25,
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28 years ago when I'd be waiting for the facts
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to come across and of your results that you'd send
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in from Center Stage. And then I would type them up,
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and then a few days later I'd publish. And then
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a few days later people would get those results in
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their mailbox. And now it's like as soon as a
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match ends, someone's hitting refresh on Twitter, and not only
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do they know the outcome of the match at an
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obscure house show, but they've got photos of it or video.
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Clips of it. The instantaneousness of media now is pretty amazing.
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And it has impacted the business. I mean, this, again,
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sounds like somebody who's been around there for 30, 40
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years now. But it's impacted that immediacy that we can
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get via all the social media platforms and the Internet
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that now is probably in its 20th year. It makes
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it just not nearly as enjoyable for me. I would
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love to watch Raw and see Goldberg come back and
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not know what was going to happen. I would pop
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like crazy for that. But now everybody knows it's going
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to happen. How are they going to use him? Will
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he be booked right? What's he going to look like?
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Is he going to dye his beard? All of this stuff.
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It's just that immediacy, that intimacy that you felt when
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you just would come screaming out of your chair when
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somebody debuted or something crazy happened that you didn't know
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was going to happen. The only time you get that
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is on a live show. show or on one of
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the pay-per-views. And even then, it's not that much of
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a surprise unless it's just done really, really well. CM Punk,
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Pac-Mom promo or something like that. And this sounds so cliched.
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And so I wish we could go back to those days.
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I want to go.
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Back to Dick Steinborn, Big Gold Tromo, and all those guys.
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But I would love to not know what's going on.
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And on Nitro, when we would get stuff Tony, Shivani,
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and Taneya and I would purposefully tell, you know, Ben
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Truso or whoever was booking, like, don't tell us what's
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going to happen. We want the emotion to be real.
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We want the broadcast to sound like we didn't know
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because we really didn't. And that, you know, I think
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those days are gone too for the announcers. They're so
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prescripted and being fed lines and, you know, push Twitter,
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push hashtags and all that. And it just, that intimacy
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is gone too.
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Part of the problem now isn't just, I don't know
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if problem is a word, but part of what you're
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describing isn't just technology making it inevitable. It is some
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of what you just spoke of at the end there,
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which is intentionally don't tell people. I mean, promoter, you
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tell the announcers, you don't have that sense of spontaneity
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when announcers react to a moment. They do that sometimes now,
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but not as much as they probably should. But WWE
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is out there promoting Goldberg. You know, they have him
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on ESPN. They're They're teasing it instead of having him
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just show up. And, I mean, you can make an
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argument for building anticipation for something and having a big audience.
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Raw ratings are struggling next Monday. I'm curious what kind
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of ratings Goldberg derives. now that people know he's going
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to be there so there's a positive that comes along
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business wise for not for knowing ahead of time but
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the negative is you don't watch now wondering if this
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is going to be the week that something amazing and
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unexpected and unplanned and unannounced happens it You just don't
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have that feeling when you tune into the shows. And boy,
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did we have that as viewers or participants, whatever the
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role was for the Monday Night War era. TNA tried
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to replicate that with their Wednesday night pay-per-views for a while.
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That's exactly what I was going to say.
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You never knew one Wednesday night to the next who
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was going to come out because that was a live show.
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And they didn't pump it up because, not to knock TNA,
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because they probably didn't know themselves until that afternoon who
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was coming. but regardless there was there was a spontaneity
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to it and it's the difference between making you watch
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well take the Goldberg thing for example that they've got
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right now in the WWE it's the difference between making
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you watch next Monday versus every Monday and I don't
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think they see.
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That exactly yep uh Scott for for the sake of
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well first I want to give our phone number we're
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going to take phone calls uh in just a few
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minutes if you want to talk to Scott Hudson about
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your Memories of Monday Nitro. Your memories of WCW pre-Monday Nitro.
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Big picture topics. I mean, it's not just WCW, but Scott,
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you were based in Atlanta. You were around for a
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lot of changes in WCW up close. The conversion from
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Jim Crockett Promotions to Turner Ownership to then Time Warner
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and AOL Ownership. Ric Flair on top. Ric Flair leaving.
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Ric Flair coming back.
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Eric Bischoff's rise.
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The few executives who came before him. Jim Hurd, Kip Frye,
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Bill Watts. Sharon Sadello, Ole Anderson, all of that stuff.
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So if we've got some long-time fans who want to
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reminisce a little about the ups and downs of WCW,
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we can have that conversation. I want to talk about Goldberg, too,
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and some of the Nitro memories. But give us a
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call or drop us an email. I know some of
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you are at work or in the car. Maybe you
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can't sit on hold and talk to us. You can
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email us at pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. But
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our phone number right now, 515-605-9345.
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515-605-9345.
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If you're listening to us live at 109 or now
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110 Eastern on Thursday, October 13th, you can call us live. Tomorrow,
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by the way, long time Pro Wrestling Torch columnist Bruce
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Mitchell will be hosting with Travis Bryant of the PW
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Torch East Coast Cast, which you can find right now.
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Yesterday's episode at eastcoastcast.com. Travis will join Bruce, I believe
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they're reunited tomorrow night, if their schedules work out, for
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the Friday night primetime edition of the PW Torch Livecast.
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And then Saturday morning wrestling. PW Torch Livecast Saturday morning
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with Pat McNeil filling in for Jim Valley. He will
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be joined by The Stro from WCW Nitro to also
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look back, perhaps at some of the Goldberg era of WCW.
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We're going to go to our first commercial break. When
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we come back, Scott Hudson is my guest. We're going
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to get into Scott's background. talk about some of his
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favorite memories announcing WCW TV during the Monday Night War era,
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and hopefully take some calls and emails. If you are
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listening and you want to give us a call, you
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have to push 1 on your Touchstone phone to move
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into the caller queue. Otherwise, you're in the standby queue.
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So if you are interested in being on the show,
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you definitely are going to want to push 1 on
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your Touchstone phone to indicate that and move up on.
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Our switchboard to the caller queue.
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We will now go to our first break of the show.
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And when we come back more with Scott Hudson, if
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you're like me, you've.
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Got, did you know that you can enjoy commercial free
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versions of all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and
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search PW torch and subscribe to a VIP membership tier.
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You get a seven day free trial, by the way,
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like the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship,
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our Flashbacks, and also the PWTorch Daily Cast lineup. Again,
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all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership,
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you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything
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Either way works.
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Go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial. And
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that's PWTorchLivecast.com. All right, we are back live. Scott Hudson
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is my guest on the PWTorch Livecast. If you've got
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a question for Scott, call 515-605. as in 605 Eastern.
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515-605-9345 and push 1 on your touchstone phone to talk
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about the Monday Night War era that Scott Hudson was
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a part of. Scott, I want to lay the foundation
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for listeners who may have heard your voice on the
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WWE Network archives or might have lived through your.
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Time in WCW.
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Talk about how you ended up We'll talk about your
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background as a wrestling fan and then how your journey
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took place where you landed in the announce chair on
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national television for WCW.
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I was a fan since I was five years old
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in 1970 watching at my grandfather's house and Again, that
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goes back to Dick Steinborn and Big Bill Drummond, the
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Georgia Indie guys, Georgia Championship guys back in the early,
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early 70s. From there, I was a fan. That was it.
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And then I became an announcer doing high school and
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college sports as well as being a disc jockey back
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in high school and in college. moved to Atlanta, put
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two and two together, and basically like anything else in
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the wrestling business, if you agree to work for free,
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you can pretty much write your own ticket. So I did,
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and Steve Prazak and I, who are my best friend,
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we sort of mirrored each other going through and ended
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up hosting the local Georgia show. Just because we worked
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for free and we could do what we wanted, we
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had a good time, we were both marks, And that
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was it. And then the Atlanta guys for WCW would
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watch the Georgia show. It was the highest rate. It
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outdid World Championship Wrestling in Atlanta. Believe it or not,
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it did higher numbers. It was just a rinky-dink, small-time promotion,
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but it was fun. And the Atlanta guys at WCW
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loved it, loved us. We got to be friends, hanging
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out with Paige and Canyon and Brian Clark and Disco
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and Raven and guys like that before we even worked there.
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And just one day, Eric called me. Eric Bishop called me,
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brought me in for an audition, said, we got a spot.
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I know who you are. Page bouts for you. Diamond
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Dallas Page bouts for you. Come on in for an audition.
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Did the audition, got the job that day, and off
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we went. So it was, you know, crazy. That, you know,
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I was somewhere in there. I did the ESPN show
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with John Horton for the Global Wrestling Federation, but that
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grew out of the local Georgia show back in 90
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00:17:23.660 --> 00:17:28.119
and 91. too, but the genesis of all of it
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00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:33.279
was getting Pro Wrestling Torch and the Wrestling Observer back
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in the mid-80s and waiting by the mailbox patiently every
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Tuesday or whenever it would come and just tearing through
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00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:44.569
those things non-stop just to learn what was going on
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around the wrestling world and that smartened me up to
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00:17:46.970 --> 00:17:49.470
the business so that when I walked in, nobody had
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to smarten me up because I already knew, not everything,
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but I knew enough from just reading reading the newsletters.
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So that was it. It was a quick study. Once
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it started rolling, it happened pretty quickly.
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You talk about waiting patiently for the mail to arrive.
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Now people get upset if they have to wait an
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extra second and a half for their web browser to refresh.
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I know I'm that way. What's going on here? Oh,
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there it is.
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What's gone wrong with the world? Why can't anybody get
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anything right? I have to wait an extra second and
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a half for this graphic to load. When you how
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long of a stretch did you announce for WCW and
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which shows did you do?
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00:18:27.220 --> 00:18:31.680
It started in December of 95 was when I did
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00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:34.940
the audition started in January of 96 and went all
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the way until the bloody end in March of 2001. Yeah.
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00:18:40.250 --> 00:18:42.089
I did, I did every show. I mean, I did
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00:18:42.130 --> 00:18:47.970
Saturday night with either today or dream, but I started
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00:18:48.009 --> 00:18:51.329
off doing pro and, on Sunday afternoons with The Legend.
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Did Worldwide with Tanay or The Brain for a while.
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I did Nitro. Did a couple of Thunders, but they
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00:19:00.349 --> 00:19:02.450
wanted to have different announce teams for Thunder. They wanted
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Tony to be the anchor and different teams around him.
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So I did a couple of Thunders, but that was it.
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00:19:07.269 --> 00:19:10.970
And then I did the pay-per-views, and then there was
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the syndicated shows. I did syndicated Nitro, syndicated Thunder, and
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syndicated Worldwide, which went in the United States. And worldwide
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00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:22.700
in the United States, Thunder and Nitro went everywhere but
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the United States, international syndication market. And that was Legend
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and I and Tobisco and I. And those shows would
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be worth finding because we went in and we just
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00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:36.309
knew that it was just. You know, it did great numbers.
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00:19:36.369 --> 00:19:40.140
Anything we did, not legend, anything WCW did was just
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going to be gold internationally. It was basically the only
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game in town with a great number. So we would
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00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:48.650
cut inside jokes, and it was everything that you and
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00:19:48.950 --> 00:19:51.519
Mitchell would do. if you were calling a show right now.
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00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.099
And we got away with it just because they didn't care.
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They were going to watch no matter what. And then
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00:19:56.579 --> 00:20:00.049
sometimes they were doing like translations into the native language
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00:20:00.089 --> 00:20:01.950
of where we were syndicating the shows. It didn't matter
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what we said. But yeah, I did every show they had.
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00:20:06.430 --> 00:20:08.930
at one point or another, sometimes there was probably about
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00:20:08.970 --> 00:20:12.150
a six-month time where I did literally every show in
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00:20:12.369 --> 00:20:13.269
some form or fashion.
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That's just crazy.
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00:20:15.109 --> 00:20:21.990
Now, when you first stepped foot in a WCW environment
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00:20:22.289 --> 00:20:26.690
as an announcer and you started to be part of
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00:20:26.730 --> 00:20:32.819
that process, did your perception shift or change in terms.
377
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:33.299
Of how you looked at it?
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00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:35.589
Because you talk about, you know, You did what Mitchell
379
00:20:35.630 --> 00:20:37.529
and I would do, you know, making cracks, making inside
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00:20:37.589 --> 00:20:38.250
reference and all that.
381
00:20:38.670 --> 00:20:41.230
Did you end up looking at.
382
00:20:41.230 --> 00:20:45.400
Wrestling differently, working for the company? Did you become more defensive,
383
00:20:46.779 --> 00:20:49.140
more of a defender of it? Did you see things
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00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:51.859
differently than you did from the outside? Or was it
385
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.119
kind of what you perceived it as and you just
386
00:20:54.180 --> 00:20:56.039
happened to be in front of the camera instead of
387
00:20:56.059 --> 00:20:56.460
in the crowd?
388
00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:02.599
That's a great question. Um, first I had been in the, in,
389
00:21:02.779 --> 00:21:04.579
in the business as it were, I had been doing
390
00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:08.240
television at that point for eight years. So it didn't,
391
00:21:08.259 --> 00:21:10.789
there was no, no intimidation factor. Oh, so that's how
392
00:21:10.829 --> 00:21:12.869
it works. So that's, you know, what B roll is
393
00:21:12.970 --> 00:21:14.950
and that's, you know, all that stuff. So I knew
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00:21:14.990 --> 00:21:17.930
all of that, but as far as the company, you know,
395
00:21:18.049 --> 00:21:22.440
up until I walked in, um, as the C team announcer,
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00:21:22.539 --> 00:21:27.039
D team announcer, uh, you know, Doug Dillinger couldn't stand me.
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00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:30.119
David Crockett couldn't stand me because we were, leading the
398
00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:32.900
cheers for Tex Schlesinger and Shanghai Pierce at Center Stage
399
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.349
one Tuesday night, and then the next Monday I'm an employee.
400
00:21:37.329 --> 00:21:41.130
So what I experienced was sort of the opposite of
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00:21:41.170 --> 00:21:45.269
what you said. I didn't become defensive of WCW. I
402
00:21:45.289 --> 00:21:47.509
didn't need to be. I loved the company even before
403
00:21:47.549 --> 00:21:50.049
I worked there. It was my hometown company, but they
404
00:21:50.089 --> 00:21:52.660
became more defensive of me. You know, you may be
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00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:55.160
a jerk, but you're our jerk now, and we're going
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00:21:55.180 --> 00:21:57.799
to look out for you. And that's what I experienced.
407
00:21:57.839 --> 00:21:59.799
And to this day, when we'll have our little reunions
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00:21:59.859 --> 00:22:03.339
around Atlanta, you know, we'll get this. We have this
409
00:22:03.380 --> 00:22:06.740
email listserv that we'll get. We're all getting together at
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00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:10.539
Stats on Friday night. And, you know, and everybody still
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00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:13.599
gets along. Everybody still loves each other and hugs and everything.
412
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:17.289
It's been, gosh, 15-plus years since it ended.
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00:22:24.109 --> 00:22:27.130
Longing for some nostalgia? Or maybe you want to learn
414
00:22:27.190 --> 00:22:31.069
some wrestling history? Don't miss the 90s Past Cast every
415
00:22:31.150 --> 00:22:34.849
Friday on the PWTorch daily cast feed. Alex and Patrick
416
00:22:34.890 --> 00:22:38.160
will transport you 30 years into the past by taking
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00:22:38.180 --> 00:22:41.519
you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow
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00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:44.720
news from the WWF and WCW and all the happenings
419
00:22:44.740 --> 00:22:47.680
from across the wrestling industry in real time as the
420
00:22:47.740 --> 00:22:51.609
Torch reported it 30 years ago. That's the 90s Passcast
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00:22:51.710 --> 00:22:54.390
every Friday on the PWTorch daily cast feed.
422
00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:07.559
That's, uh, it's just, when I think about you being
423
00:23:07.579 --> 00:23:09.410
in the crowd one week and then behind the scenes
424
00:23:09.430 --> 00:23:12.700
the next week, and I think of David Crockett, Um, I,
425
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:14.740
that just makes me, that just makes me chuckle.
426
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:15.079
A little bit.
427
00:23:16.259 --> 00:23:19.019
Um, Oh, that happened. I mean, that, that, that happened
428
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.880
just like I wasn't, that wasn't a metaphor that really happened.
429
00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:24.349
I was Tuesday night. I'm in the crowd with Prezak
430
00:23:24.380 --> 00:23:26.589
and the Atlanta boys. And then Monday morning I'm an employee.
431
00:23:26.849 --> 00:23:28.329
Yeah, no, I know it really happened.
432
00:23:28.369 --> 00:23:30.650
And I just, I'm just, it's just fun to imagine
433
00:23:30.670 --> 00:23:33.289
David Crockett being a little irritated by, you know, who, who,
434
00:23:33.390 --> 00:23:36.710
who's getting hired by this Bischoff guy or whatever. Eric
435
00:23:36.750 --> 00:23:39.569
Bischoff's rise to Scott. I mean, you got to see that.
436
00:23:39.589 --> 00:23:43.130
I got to see Eric, uh, Pre-WCW in the AWA,
437
00:23:43.410 --> 00:23:46.650
when he was the C or D team announcer, he
438
00:23:46.670 --> 00:23:47.329
was hustling.
439
00:23:47.390 --> 00:23:49.509
He was entrepreneurial. He was full of ideas.
440
00:23:50.849 --> 00:23:55.710
He learned the business from Greg Gagne and Craig Shields
441
00:23:55.769 --> 00:24:00.200
and other people who were legendary figures in the AWA.
442
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:02.220
There were a lot of people I've seen in announcing
443
00:24:02.259 --> 00:24:04.480
over the years who just wanted to be an announcer,
444
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:06.579
and that was cool. That was their gig. That was
445
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:11.259
their passion. Eric had different aspirations than just announcing, although
446
00:24:11.420 --> 00:24:12.980
he wanted to be a game show host. Legend has
447
00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:14.619
it at one point, hey, maybe I can be the
448
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.480
next John Davidson. But he was a wrestling fan. He
449
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:20.630
was running commercials for.
450
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:22.430
There's a dated reference, John Davidson.
451
00:24:23.150 --> 00:24:26.710
There were commercials for the ninja suits where you throw
452
00:24:26.730 --> 00:24:29.990
these cloth stars at a vest and stick on the Velcro.
453
00:24:30.450 --> 00:24:34.009
He was entrepreneurial in that sense. He wanted to take
454
00:24:34.069 --> 00:24:37.339
something and make it better and bigger. And he ended
455
00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:40.880
up going to WCW as an announcer and just talked
456
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:43.200
his way into a top executive position in one of
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00:24:43.220 --> 00:24:47.900
the more unlikely– I say unlikely not because he wasn't
458
00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:51.099
somebody that I knew was aspirational but unlikely in that
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00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:55.700
he weaved his way through WCW politics so quickly and
460
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:57.920
talked his way into a top position. And I still
461
00:24:57.940 --> 00:25:02.549
remember to this day writing on QuarkXPress or whatever my
462
00:25:02.569 --> 00:25:05.690
desktop publishing program was on my old black-and-white monitor on
463
00:25:05.710 --> 00:25:08.579
my Mac– And I remember typing in, and I couldn't
464
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:11.680
believe I was doing it. Eric Bischoff, according to our sources,
465
00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:14.720
has moved into a top executive position in WCW. It's
466
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:17.000
in one of the back issues. And it felt so
467
00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:19.099
weird because it had either been corporate types like Kip
468
00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:22.200
Frye and Jim Hurd, who really had no wrestling experience
469
00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:25.240
or very little, or it was like a Bill Watts guy.
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00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:26.140
A big name.
471
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.329
He's going to shake things up and change things. Legendary
472
00:25:28.349 --> 00:25:31.549
Mid-South wrestling promoter. The idea of Eric, or Ole Anderson,
473
00:25:32.329 --> 00:25:34.049
you know, getting a position of power. But to have
474
00:25:34.089 --> 00:25:38.359
Eric Bischoff, a young... mind who knew wrestling. We didn't
475
00:25:38.380 --> 00:25:39.980
know a lot about what he wanted to do. Getting
476
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.769
in that spot changed the entire course of the industry.
477
00:25:42.789 --> 00:25:44.670
And say, you know, Eric and I have had our
478
00:25:44.710 --> 00:25:46.609
ups and downs. You can listen to him rant and
479
00:25:46.630 --> 00:25:50.869
rave about me if you want on his podcast. I mean,
480
00:25:50.890 --> 00:25:55.519
I respect Bischoff's climb. And I've always been someone to
481
00:25:55.599 --> 00:26:01.579
recognize and tout that he revolutionized wrestling and that without him,
482
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:05.609
it would look completely different today. I mean, Monday Nitro,
483
00:26:05.670 --> 00:26:10.849
a big-budget live weekly show with Nitro dancers and the
484
00:26:10.869 --> 00:26:13.950
spring break settings. And Zane Breslov's idea, I wish Eric
485
00:26:13.990 --> 00:26:16.779
gave Zane more credit historically, but the idea of making
486
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:19.980
pre-ticket sales a big deal, like WWE is doing for
487
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.740
the Royal Rumble this month, or tomorrow, I should say.
488
00:26:23.740 --> 00:26:26.950
He brought so many big-picture ideas to wrestling.
489
00:26:27.049 --> 00:26:29.750
It changed the course of the industry. Talk about your
490
00:26:29.789 --> 00:26:30.769
experiences with Eric.
491
00:26:31.569 --> 00:26:34.130
And, I mean, you knew he was an AWA announcer,
492
00:26:34.289 --> 00:26:36.789
you know, hosting those syndicated shows out of Rochester, Minnesota,
493
00:26:36.829 --> 00:26:41.099
and interviewing people at ringside with premature gray hair and
494
00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.559
too much hair gel and all that. Talk a little
495
00:26:43.579 --> 00:26:47.460
bit about your impression of Eric Bischoff. Hey, I don't
496
00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:50.920
want my old picture shown either, so I'm not my
497
00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:53.400
old haircuts. But, Scott, talk about Eric.
498
00:26:55.099 --> 00:26:58.799
Well, first I'll say this in full disclosure. I would
499
00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:03.190
follow Eric Bischoff into battle today. uh, October 13th, 2016,
500
00:27:03.190 --> 00:27:05.170
if he called us that we're going to go do something,
501
00:27:05.210 --> 00:27:07.490
are you with me? Yes, I am. I have that
502
00:27:07.529 --> 00:27:10.690
much respect for his, for him as a person and
503
00:27:10.730 --> 00:27:13.740
for him as a visionary and a businessman and someone
504
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:16.559
that can organize and just, you know, see, see dust
505
00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:18.440
and then make a building out of it. He's, he's
506
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.920
that good. He is as bill. He's, he's, he's terrific.
507
00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:27.569
I have zero problems with Eric Bischoff, but Eric gets, um,
508
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:29.839
it's a lot of heat that I, that I am
509
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:36.069
sure he doesn't deserve, uh, because he did save that company. Uh, and, and,
510
00:27:36.230 --> 00:27:37.890
and to, to a degree, he tried to save it
511
00:27:37.930 --> 00:27:40.950
at the end with the future media, uh, group he
512
00:27:40.970 --> 00:27:43.609
was trying to put together to buy WCW, what was left.
513
00:27:43.630 --> 00:27:46.039
And then we had Jamie Kellner and Brad Siegel and
514
00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:49.200
all those morons, but he couldn't save it at the
515
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:52.200
very end, but he, he pulled it out of the fire, uh,
516
00:27:52.259 --> 00:27:55.660
when he was made, uh, executive producer, executive vice president,
517
00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:59.250
whatever he was, uh, When he met with Ted Turner,
518
00:27:59.970 --> 00:28:02.819
he sold Turner and Harvey Schiller and all these guys
519
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:06.980
a bill of goods about why he should be the guy.
520
00:28:07.819 --> 00:28:10.180
And when he was the guy, they said, all right,
521
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.720
what can we do to save this company? And he said, well,
522
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:15.279
I want three hours of live television every Monday night.
523
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:18.269
You got it. And he didn't know that. He thought
524
00:28:18.289 --> 00:28:19.730
they were going to say, well, we can't do that,
525
00:28:20.089 --> 00:28:22.920
but maybe we can. And he went in and asked
526
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:24.970
for that, and they gave it to him on the spot,
527
00:28:25.029 --> 00:28:26.910
and he had no idea what he was going to do.
528
00:28:27.130 --> 00:28:30.509
He was expecting them to say no. So he basically,
529
00:28:30.569 --> 00:28:32.269
and I don't think he did it on a napkin,
530
00:28:32.589 --> 00:28:34.190
but he might as well have, you know, he laid
531
00:28:34.309 --> 00:28:38.460
out the whole concept of Nitro right there, basically making
532
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:42.160
up as he went. And, again, they had a company.
533
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:45.619
Everything started building when Nitro started, and we were head-to-heading
534
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:48.619
a draw the night that Luger was on both shows
535
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:50.299
and all that, and it was at the of all
536
00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:52.150
of the Americas and all that sort of thing. I
537
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:56.230
had Pillman and Liger in the ring and everything. So
538
00:28:56.349 --> 00:28:59.509
Eric came up with that on the fly. Eric came
539
00:28:59.589 --> 00:29:02.190
up with the whole NWO angle. He was a very
540
00:29:02.329 --> 00:29:05.549
big picture guy. He wanted to have that overarching angle
541
00:29:06.069 --> 00:29:11.150
that everything percolated up underneath and generated heat that kept
542
00:29:11.190 --> 00:29:14.579
that angle alive. above everything. It's like a hot air balloon.
543
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:16.579
You just keep hot air going up underneath and it
544
00:29:16.619 --> 00:29:18.640
just floats all over the place. That's what he thought
545
00:29:18.660 --> 00:29:19.740
the interview was going to be.
546
00:29:19.779 --> 00:29:20.220
It was.
547
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:24.380
He came up with the Kohlberg idea. He came up
548
00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:29.769
with famously Sting, who is a great guy. You've probably
549
00:29:29.930 --> 00:29:31.970
met him a million times too. He's just a terrific
550
00:29:32.250 --> 00:29:36.990
human being. But Sting is not the most charismatic promo
551
00:29:37.009 --> 00:29:39.750
in the world. And in his work, if he's in
552
00:29:39.769 --> 00:29:42.160
there with Flair, you know, he could be carried to
553
00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:44.220
a five-star match, but if he's in there with anybody else,
554
00:29:44.259 --> 00:29:47.539
pretty much, it's going to be a struggle. But Eric
555
00:29:47.579 --> 00:29:50.039
had the idea, well, we've got to get Sting over.
556
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:53.269
What can we do? And Eric had the idea, how
557
00:29:53.289 --> 00:29:55.710
about we not let him talk, since he can't cut
558
00:29:55.730 --> 00:30:02.809
a But he's got it, and he's got charisma. So
559
00:30:02.869 --> 00:30:05.490
in a year, without talking and without working, he'll be
560
00:30:05.509 --> 00:30:07.630
the most sober guy in the company. And sure enough,
561
00:30:07.710 --> 00:30:11.130
that's exactly what happened. And that's when he became the
562
00:30:11.150 --> 00:30:14.349
crow gimmick, hanging out in the rafters and rappelling down
563
00:30:14.390 --> 00:30:17.190
with a baseball bat and all that. And if you remember,
564
00:30:17.230 --> 00:30:19.150
the minute he got in the ring with Hogan at Starrcade,
565
00:30:19.190 --> 00:30:21.369
it all sort of fell down again because he had
566
00:30:21.390 --> 00:30:24.880
to talk and work. But Eric was a genius when
567
00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:27.559
it came to that sort of stuff. And he doesn't
568
00:30:27.579 --> 00:30:31.059
get nearly... enough credit. Now, he's going to rub people
569
00:30:31.099 --> 00:30:37.490
the wrong way. But most people that are tortured geniuses,
570
00:30:37.569 --> 00:30:40.269
as it were, or good salesmen, are going to rub
571
00:30:40.309 --> 00:30:42.609
some people the wrong way. And he did rub a
572
00:30:42.650 --> 00:30:46.210
lot of fans the wrong way, and certainly a lot
573
00:30:46.250 --> 00:30:49.880
of journalists the wrong way. It was because he was
574
00:30:49.950 --> 00:30:52.920
always looking out for the company. And it's not to
575
00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:55.359
say that he loved the company more than he loved anything.
576
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:58.019
He didn't. He loved himself. But he knew that if
577
00:30:58.039 --> 00:31:00.740
he built the company up, he would be taken care of,
578
00:31:00.789 --> 00:31:01.569
and that's what happened.
579
00:31:04.490 --> 00:31:06.309
iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native
580
00:31:06.349 --> 00:31:10.369
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581
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:15.349
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582
00:31:15.369 --> 00:31:17.930
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583
00:31:17.990 --> 00:31:19.990
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588
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And after that, you can become a VIP member using
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590
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unlock all the VIP exclusives, including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the
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00:31:50.829 --> 00:31:54.309
of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple
596
00:31:54.329 --> 00:31:59.190
podcast app. Eric, you know, there's a lot of good
597
00:31:59.210 --> 00:32:00.630
that comes with Eric. And as you said, he rubbed
598
00:32:00.650 --> 00:32:07.680
people the wrong way. And he's owned some of his mistakes,
599
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:12.869
some of his tantrums under stress, throwing coffee at Eddie
600
00:32:12.910 --> 00:32:15.329
Guerrero and using Terry Taylor as the guy he just
601
00:32:15.369 --> 00:32:18.390
verbally beat up to take out his frustrations that he
602
00:32:18.410 --> 00:32:20.490
had with other people he couldn't yell at or couldn't
603
00:32:20.509 --> 00:32:22.299
get away with yelling at. Terry was the guy he
604
00:32:22.339 --> 00:32:23.700
knew he could get away with yelling at, so he'd
605
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:24.579
take it out on Terry.
606
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:29.859
But that was a high-stress job. At what point– you
607
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:30.400
talk about.
608
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:35.049
Eric– and you'd follow him into battle today, and I
609
00:32:35.069 --> 00:32:35.470
get that.
610
00:32:35.490 --> 00:32:36.289
Yeah.
611
00:32:36.869 --> 00:32:40.130
At what point did you see things starting to unravel?
612
00:32:40.170 --> 00:32:45.109
I mean, you witnessed in person the unraveling, maybe isn't
613
00:32:45.130 --> 00:32:48.769
the word, that's probably the wrong adjective, but the diminished
614
00:32:48.869 --> 00:32:51.930
quality of the product and the smaller crowds in the
615
00:32:52.019 --> 00:32:56.119
early 90s, pre-Monday Nitro. And you could tell things were
616
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:59.839
not going well for WCW. Then they came back, bigger
617
00:32:59.859 --> 00:33:03.859
than ever. And then they started unraveling. Talk a little
618
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:07.089
bit about what you were, what you being in the
619
00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:09.700
trenches and seeing things up close. And sometimes that can
620
00:33:09.740 --> 00:33:11.349
help or hurt your view. You know, sometimes you're too
621
00:33:11.390 --> 00:33:15.190
close to really see what's happening. But did you sense, oh, man,
622
00:33:15.529 --> 00:33:17.289
this is going to be a hardship to steer back
623
00:33:17.369 --> 00:33:20.019
on course. And what do you, looking back on it,
624
00:33:20.029 --> 00:33:22.269
what do you think the cause of things going off
625
00:33:22.289 --> 00:33:22.829
the rail.
626
00:33:22.650 --> 00:33:23.470
The way they did was?
627
00:33:25.490 --> 00:33:29.529
Well, it's a double-edged sword. First, you've got the business
628
00:33:29.650 --> 00:33:32.069
aspect of it. And you've got the creative aspect of it.
629
00:33:32.420 --> 00:33:35.680
The creative aspect of it is what everyone saw on
630
00:33:36.099 --> 00:33:40.500
the broadcast. And at that point, we had the finger
631
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:43.480
poke of doom, and it got worse from there. All
632
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:47.529
of that really was starting to negatively impact the company.
633
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:51.910
And not to knock Vince Rousseau, who I also love Vince.
634
00:33:51.950 --> 00:33:55.650
He was terrific. But his ideas were sort of ahead
635
00:33:55.670 --> 00:33:57.650
of their time. You look at what's going on now.
636
00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:02.059
It's almost like Vince is booking everything, and obviously he's not,
637
00:34:02.259 --> 00:34:04.559
but he was trying to do that stuff, albeit with
638
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:08.090
varying degrees of success as far as creative goes, even
639
00:34:08.090 --> 00:34:12.269
20 years ago. And so the creative aspect of things
640
00:34:12.309 --> 00:34:15.469
people could see, but that wasn't what killed the company.
641
00:34:15.530 --> 00:34:18.769
What killed the company was the business aspect of things.
642
00:34:18.789 --> 00:34:20.829
I don't mean the business of bringing people in the
643
00:34:20.869 --> 00:34:24.860
front door and buying pay-per-views and buying swag and revenue streams.
644
00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:29.349
I'm talking about the people running the company. When... Time
645
00:34:29.389 --> 00:34:33.789
Warner was purchased by AOL. The first thing the AOL
646
00:34:33.829 --> 00:34:37.260
crowd did was decide they didn't want professional wrestling on
647
00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:41.920
any of their property. Not physical property, but any of
648
00:34:41.940 --> 00:34:46.280
their broadcast properties. So it was a struggle. I mean,
649
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:49.500
a huge struggle just to convince them to let us
650
00:34:49.579 --> 00:34:52.619
be on for another six months because they just didn't
651
00:34:52.659 --> 00:34:55.920
like us. They didn't like wrestling fans. And they, I'm
652
00:34:55.940 --> 00:34:58.900
talking about Jamie Kellner, and Brad Siegel, who were the
653
00:34:59.019 --> 00:35:03.820
biggest morons ever to walk. But they didn't want wrestling
654
00:35:04.139 --> 00:35:07.880
at all in any context. And so that was the struggle.
655
00:35:08.260 --> 00:35:12.889
And when we were trying to fight back creatively and
656
00:35:12.909 --> 00:35:16.309
get our audience back, we were also being, you know,
657
00:35:16.329 --> 00:35:19.510
we were getting pushback from the fans, deservedly so, because
658
00:35:19.530 --> 00:35:21.269
some of the stuff that was out there was just
659
00:35:21.369 --> 00:35:24.159
not good at all. Some of it was really good,
660
00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:26.159
some of it was really terrible, but we were having
661
00:35:26.179 --> 00:35:28.780
to fight that battle with the fans and say, hey, look,
662
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.219
some of this is really good, we're trying new things,
663
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:33.860
and on the other side, we're getting hit from the
664
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:35.340
business side that just didn't want.
665
00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:35.840
Us at all.
666
00:35:36.539 --> 00:35:38.610
And at the end of the day, even if we
667
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.889
had come back creatively, the business aspect of things was
668
00:35:42.929 --> 00:35:47.179
going to kill us. And when Vince McMahon bought what
669
00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:53.000
was left of WCW. He got famously a bargain basement
670
00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:55.840
deal because at that point we had no television. They
671
00:35:55.880 --> 00:36:01.130
had canceled our television show. So you had WCW, basically
672
00:36:01.170 --> 00:36:04.869
a television product, even though we made enough money from television,
673
00:36:04.889 --> 00:36:10.260
but it drove house shows and merchandise and the 900
674
00:36:10.260 --> 00:36:13.300
number and everything else. We had no way to get
675
00:36:13.340 --> 00:36:16.050
that to the market because they had canceled our television.
676
00:36:16.070 --> 00:36:21.510
So WCW went from being arguably a $ 50, $ 60 million company,
677
00:36:22.369 --> 00:36:26.219
even at its current struggling state, to being ostensibly worthless.
678
00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:29.659
And that's, you know, Vince didn't pay nothing, but he
679
00:36:29.699 --> 00:36:31.539
might as well have. And he's a genius. He's a
680
00:36:31.539 --> 00:36:35.090
good businessman. So that got proven again. But what killed
681
00:36:35.110 --> 00:36:38.880
the business was the business aspect of wrestling, not the
682
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:41.599
creative part. People would see the creative part and think, oh,
683
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:45.539
it was terrible because Mike Awesome liked fat girls and
684
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:47.739
we had Judy Bagwell on a pole and all of
685
00:36:47.780 --> 00:36:50.599
that stuff. That was part of the problem, but it
686
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:53.360
was a very small part. The main big part was
687
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:57.130
how the AOL crowd just destroyed us from within and
688
00:36:57.170 --> 00:36:57.710
from on top.
689
00:36:58.449 --> 00:37:00.940
I do wonder how much, because Eric made a similar
690
00:37:01.219 --> 00:37:03.340
argument to me, I think it was 2009, we did
691
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:06.840
like a five-hour in-depth Torch Talk about this, and my
692
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:11.079
viewpoint is a little bit different in terms of weighing
693
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:16.110
the creative and business acumen or decisions and AOL. And
694
00:37:16.150 --> 00:37:17.630
I know what you're saying, and you were there, and
695
00:37:17.650 --> 00:37:20.210
I respect the scenario you just described, and I think
696
00:37:21.170 --> 00:37:24.510
talking about the incompetence of AOL and that merger and
697
00:37:24.550 --> 00:37:29.630
how disastrous that was and how incompetently executed in the
698
00:37:29.670 --> 00:37:30.610
buffoonery that was going on.
699
00:37:30.650 --> 00:37:33.349
That's all true. I do wonder.
700
00:37:35.190 --> 00:37:40.769
If WCW had not become maybe the worst pro wrestling
701
00:37:40.809 --> 00:37:43.510
product I had ever seen in the last year or two.
702
00:37:44.250 --> 00:37:48.289
And if Vince Russo especially hadn't, I think, done such
703
00:37:49.409 --> 00:37:55.250
an incredibly awful job breaking every sensible booking rule. that
704
00:37:55.269 --> 00:37:58.309
there was, and had they not, WCW, and this falls
705
00:37:58.349 --> 00:38:00.920
on Eric too, although I understand the root of it,
706
00:38:01.449 --> 00:38:06.650
and why he initiated this, the guaranteed contracts, and the
707
00:38:07.010 --> 00:38:09.820
power that the top wrestlers had, and how their incentive
708
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.199
wasn't to help WCW get better, it was to make
709
00:38:12.260 --> 00:38:15.340
sure nobody else got over, so when their contract came due,
710
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.519
they were more needed than ever. So a lot of
711
00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:23.420
things were at play, but had WCW... not been losing
712
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:28.800
tens of millions of dollars per year. And really, there's
713
00:38:28.820 --> 00:38:31.610
probably quarters where they lost tens of millions of dollars,
714
00:38:31.659 --> 00:38:34.199
not just a year near the end there. And had
715
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:38.969
the creative product held up, had WCW done more than
716
00:38:39.050 --> 00:38:42.869
just hire everybody from Tank, Abbott, you name them. They
717
00:38:42.889 --> 00:38:46.289
just threw them on TV. Had there been some sensible
718
00:38:46.369 --> 00:38:49.809
booking vision that was being executed? And had they not
719
00:38:50.250 --> 00:38:52.070
And this, to me, is the biggest thing. And Eric, actually,
720
00:38:52.090 --> 00:38:55.019
I asked him, what was the number one decision that
721
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:57.000
you had control of that you would take back? And
722
00:38:57.019 --> 00:38:59.900
he said, agreeing to take the TBS money for Thunder.
723
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:04.659
Because it watered down the roster and it watered down
724
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:06.699
the creative team. It was a short-term decision he felt
725
00:39:06.739 --> 00:39:09.780
pressure to take. TBS wanted in on it. Hey, if
726
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:11.739
there's this many people watching or making that much money,
727
00:39:12.150 --> 00:39:15.389
let's add two more hours to the week. Maybe who
728
00:39:15.429 --> 00:39:17.750
wants to be a millionaire today? with Regis Philbin would
729
00:39:17.769 --> 00:39:19.059
still be on the air if they didn't expand it
730
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.019
to 17 hours per week when it was hot.
731
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:23.360
You know, I mean, it's just, there's other shows do
732
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:23.820
this too.
733
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:25.989
It's a burnout thing, but he said that was the
734
00:39:26.010 --> 00:39:27.789
number one decision he had control if he'd take back
735
00:39:28.489 --> 00:39:30.780
i think that there were a number of decisions that
736
00:39:31.030 --> 00:39:34.860
eric had control over that and i understand him not
737
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:37.739
wanting to admit it or seeing things differently from the
738
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:41.300
chair he was in but as the leader with power
739
00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:45.739
and again he he's made a compelling argument too hey
740
00:39:45.780 --> 00:39:48.409
there's things russo did when i lost my power that
741
00:39:48.550 --> 00:39:50.170
hurt us a lot more than anything that I did.
742
00:39:50.449 --> 00:39:52.969
And I think that's a fair argument to make and examine.
743
00:39:52.989 --> 00:39:54.510
Yeah, I do too.
744
00:39:54.730 --> 00:39:55.289
But had the.
745
00:39:55.269 --> 00:39:58.590
Ratings been stronger, had they been beating Ross still, and
746
00:39:58.650 --> 00:40:02.409
had WCW not been losing way more money than they
747
00:40:02.429 --> 00:40:06.110
were making, I don't think that Jamie Kellner could have
748
00:40:06.130 --> 00:40:09.289
walked in and said, yeah, we want TNT to be
749
00:40:09.309 --> 00:40:13.929
the highbrow drama network, so let's cancel our number one
750
00:40:14.300 --> 00:40:18.579
rated program, That is an institution on cable television in
751
00:40:18.619 --> 00:40:20.119
this country dating.
752
00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:23.219
Back to the origins of Turner's empire.
753
00:40:24.300 --> 00:40:28.000
And by the way, it's adding $ 50 million a year
754
00:40:28.059 --> 00:40:31.010
or $ 20 million a year or whatever profit to our coffers,
755
00:40:31.050 --> 00:40:33.329
which we can either feed back into WCW to make
756
00:40:33.369 --> 00:40:37.030
it better or perhaps use it to produce higher brow
757
00:40:37.070 --> 00:40:39.110
programming on the other nights of the week and advertise.
758
00:40:39.130 --> 00:40:43.730
I just do not buy that AOL had WCW been
759
00:40:43.750 --> 00:40:47.030
at their peak or within 25% of their peak, would
760
00:40:47.070 --> 00:40:49.510
have had, that Jamie Kellner would have had the power
761
00:40:49.610 --> 00:40:51.489
to say, yep, pull the plug on our number one
762
00:40:51.550 --> 00:40:54.230
rated show that's making tens of millions of dollars for
763
00:40:54.329 --> 00:40:56.550
AOL Time Warner. I don't think that would have happened.
764
00:40:56.969 --> 00:40:58.309
So in the end, I think.
765
00:40:58.329 --> 00:41:02.909
I don't disagree with you at all. I think that
766
00:41:03.449 --> 00:41:05.849
if we had been starting the NWO angle, if we
767
00:41:05.869 --> 00:41:10.849
had been at Bash 96 when AOL bought us and
768
00:41:10.889 --> 00:41:13.690
we started to just ride that wave, I think you're right.
769
00:41:14.170 --> 00:41:15.989
But at that point, it still would have been a
770
00:41:16.010 --> 00:41:18.969
struggle because it wasn't how good or bad our creative was.
771
00:41:19.090 --> 00:41:21.380
It was just that we were pro wrestling. Now, it
772
00:41:21.389 --> 00:41:23.480
would have been certainly hard to look a gift horse
773
00:41:23.539 --> 00:41:26.000
in the mouth, a $ 50 million gift horse in the mouth.
774
00:41:26.539 --> 00:41:30.159
But they came in with just this anti, we don't
775
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:33.099
want those wrestlers on our network, and we don't want
776
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:38.880
those kind of demographics populating our network. our viewership. We
777
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:41.260
want something more, like you said, more highbrow. That's what
778
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:43.710
they wanted. So we, we might could have overcome that.
779
00:41:44.070 --> 00:41:47.190
Had we continued to be generating $ 50 million a year
780
00:41:47.250 --> 00:41:50.750
in profit, like we were doing in 96 and 97, 98,
781
00:41:50.750 --> 00:41:52.710
it would have been an easier sell, but we came
782
00:41:52.750 --> 00:41:54.389
in with the deck stacked against us. But I would,
783
00:41:54.429 --> 00:41:56.110
I would like to think that, yeah, if we were
784
00:41:56.150 --> 00:41:59.409
making that much money somewhere in his, you know, cold
785
00:41:59.489 --> 00:42:01.800
steel heart, Kellner would have said, you know what, at
786
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:03.659
least they're making money. I'll hold my nose and keep
787
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:05.900
them around. I would have, I would hope so would
788
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:06.380
still be there.
789
00:42:06.909 --> 00:42:08.730
And I think, too, that, you know, Vince Russo has
790
00:42:08.769 --> 00:42:10.590
admitted he will. I don't know if he used quite
791
00:42:10.630 --> 00:42:12.750
these words. Maybe he probably did that. He wanted to
792
00:42:12.789 --> 00:42:15.030
take wrestling into the gutter because that's where wrestling fans
793
00:42:15.090 --> 00:42:16.909
like it. You know, I mean, I can imagine him
794
00:42:16.949 --> 00:42:20.570
saying something to that effect. I mean, WCW's product was
795
00:42:20.659 --> 00:42:24.480
was tawdry, to put it kindly. And and it was
796
00:42:26.119 --> 00:42:28.280
it was it didn't have to be that way. I mean,
797
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:30.920
pro wrestling can be I don't know if highbrow would
798
00:42:30.940 --> 00:42:32.840
be the word. But it can be a show that
799
00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:35.659
you watch, and it looks like simulated combat fighting with
800
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:41.579
bombastic personalities. Not what WCW had become, which is, oh
801
00:42:41.619 --> 00:42:44.659
my god, I'm embarrassed that my family might turn on
802
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.900
the network I run on Monday night and see this.
803
00:42:48.219 --> 00:42:50.599
I mean, it had gotten so bad with some of
804
00:42:50.619 --> 00:42:53.360
the booking choices. So, I mean, when people say, who
805
00:42:53.389 --> 00:42:57.570
killed WCW? It's like, it took a village. It took
806
00:42:57.630 --> 00:42:59.300
a village of bad decisions.
807
00:42:59.949 --> 00:43:02.019
And, uh, I agree.
808
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:05.880
It was because, and the, the, the business and the creative,
809
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:09.340
each of those has, you know, several fathers and, and
810
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:13.050
I agree all, all of them share by degrees, uh,
811
00:43:13.090 --> 00:43:15.570
responsibility for what happened. You know, hell so, so do
812
00:43:15.590 --> 00:43:18.010
I know. So does Tony. And so does today. Uh,
813
00:43:18.070 --> 00:43:20.969
and sort of the talent, um, as well, you know,
814
00:43:20.989 --> 00:43:22.829
cause we, we all could have done and should have
815
00:43:22.849 --> 00:43:26.409
done better, or at least been more on the same page. And, um,
816
00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:29.780
singing from the same hymnal, as they say down here
817
00:43:29.820 --> 00:43:32.730
in the South, that we could have made it work. But,
818
00:43:32.769 --> 00:43:35.170
you know, everyone was looking out for themselves. He talked
819
00:43:35.210 --> 00:43:38.750
about guaranteed contracts. He also had guaranteed dates where you
820
00:43:38.789 --> 00:43:40.880
had guys like, oh, I'd love to work the pay-per-view,
821
00:43:40.929 --> 00:43:43.239
but you're out of dates. And, you know, what do
822
00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:45.460
you do? That's the contract you signed. And, you know,
823
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:47.500
you can come in and pay him an extra $ 600, 000,
824
00:43:47.380 --> 00:43:50.780
which would be the entire profit of the pay-per-view to
825
00:43:50.820 --> 00:43:52.489
come in and work one more day. And, you know,
826
00:43:52.510 --> 00:43:53.849
that's just bad business.
827
00:43:54.260 --> 00:43:55.739
And you had guys beating the system. I mean, you
828
00:43:55.780 --> 00:43:57.260
had a point where no one wanted to be around.
829
00:43:57.340 --> 00:43:59.360
The top guys didn't want to be around. And you
830
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:02.300
ended up with Jeff Jarrett and Booker T and, you know,
831
00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:05.820
Canyon as your top three stars at one point. And
832
00:44:06.139 --> 00:44:09.130
because Goldberg stubbed his toe, you know, and I mean,
833
00:44:09.150 --> 00:44:11.690
it was just like the number of top talent that
834
00:44:11.750 --> 00:44:14.690
was out of commission for a while, but still getting
835
00:44:14.730 --> 00:44:15.989
paid big money or two.
836
00:44:16.289 --> 00:44:17.829
Scott, I've got to take my bottom of the hour break.
837
00:44:17.869 --> 00:44:19.239
Ten minutes late. You got me on a roll here.
838
00:44:19.900 --> 00:44:22.170
So let's take our bottom of the hour break. When
839
00:44:22.190 --> 00:44:23.789
we come back, we're going to start taking phone calls.
840
00:44:24.110 --> 00:44:26.110
I also have more questions, and I definitely want to
841
00:44:26.389 --> 00:44:29.849
talk about the Goldberg phenomenon with Scott Hudson, too. Scott Hudson,
842
00:44:29.869 --> 00:44:34.510
former WCW announcer, is my guest on today's PWTorch Livecast.
843
00:44:34.530 --> 00:44:40.829
We'll be back right after this. We know you're a
844
00:44:40.869 --> 00:44:41.690
pro wrestling fan.
845
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:48.219
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk? Then join me,
846
00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:51.780
Jason Powell, host of the three-weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast.
847
00:44:52.309 --> 00:44:54.489
Each week, you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
848
00:44:54.530 --> 00:44:57.210
me and my team at ProWrestling.net, along with other Pro
849
00:44:57.250 --> 00:45:00.690
Wrestling Media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features
850
00:45:00.750 --> 00:45:04.090
long-form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry.
851
00:45:04.369 --> 00:45:08.190
Subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps,
852
00:45:08.710 --> 00:45:14.309
or visit us directly at PWBoom.com. Once again, that's PWBoom.com.
853
00:45:17.289 --> 00:45:22.780
Dot com slash Amazon. All right, Scott Hudson is my
854
00:45:22.820 --> 00:45:27.010
guest on today's episode of the PWTorge Livecast. We're talking
855
00:45:27.889 --> 00:45:31.789
WCW memories for the most part, and we've got some
856
00:45:31.809 --> 00:45:34.489
callers on hold. So let's get to some calls and
857
00:45:34.710 --> 00:45:38.050
begin with area code 651. 651, please state your name
858
00:45:38.090 --> 00:45:39.010
and the city you're calling from.
859
00:45:41.289 --> 00:45:44.409
Hi, this is Chris from Shoreview, Minnesota.
860
00:45:44.909 --> 00:45:46.489
Hey, Chris, thanks for calling. What have you got for
861
00:45:46.550 --> 00:45:46.909
us today?
862
00:45:49.730 --> 00:45:51.769
Well, I just kind of want to elaborate on what
863
00:45:51.789 --> 00:45:57.309
you guys were talking about. Scott, you were talking about
864
00:45:57.349 --> 00:46:00.599
how Vince just kind of snooped in at the end
865
00:46:00.619 --> 00:46:09.679
of Nitro and bought WCW for virtually nothing. Now, in
866
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:13.150
things that I've read over the years, I've often heard
867
00:46:13.170 --> 00:46:16.090
Eric Bischoff talk about how he had an investment group
868
00:46:17.510 --> 00:46:20.090
that he thought he would be able to offer AOL
869
00:46:20.210 --> 00:46:22.789
more than what Vince paid for it, because Vince basically
870
00:46:22.809 --> 00:46:26.909
just paid for the video library. And I was wondering
871
00:46:26.949 --> 00:46:30.639
if you knew anything about what Eric had in mind? Like,
872
00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:34.860
I was thinking, why couldn't he do what TNA does,
873
00:46:34.900 --> 00:46:38.719
just buy WCW and then try to shop it to
874
00:46:38.739 --> 00:46:43.449
a different network? I understand different times then, but I
875
00:46:43.489 --> 00:46:45.730
had another point, too. Do you want them both, or
876
00:46:45.750 --> 00:46:48.110
do you want to just go with that for now.
877
00:46:48.170 --> 00:46:50.369
Let's do one at a time so we don't have
878
00:46:50.389 --> 00:46:51.090
to remember too much.
879
00:46:51.329 --> 00:46:52.449
Go ahead, Scott.
880
00:46:54.610 --> 00:46:57.909
Chris, that's a great question, and the answer is pretty simple.
881
00:46:58.429 --> 00:47:02.070
Eric did have the Fuchsia Media Group who was going
882
00:47:02.090 --> 00:47:05.179
to come in and buy WCW, but his backers, and
883
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:06.539
I don't know who they were, I know they came
884
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:09.840
to a couple of Nitros, and Eric was introducing them
885
00:47:09.900 --> 00:47:12.360
and showing them how the backstage worked and how the
886
00:47:12.380 --> 00:47:14.659
production worked and all that, and they're nice guys, all
887
00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:19.159
in nice suits and all that, but Their interest in
888
00:47:19.219 --> 00:47:23.219
buying WCW was to leave it in place, to have
889
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:27.239
an outlet on TNT, to have the TBS outlet, to
890
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:30.039
have the pay-per-views in place, to have the syndication network
891
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:33.250
in place, the international markets in place, to basically buy
892
00:47:33.309 --> 00:47:37.570
it as it was and manage it. But taking it
893
00:47:37.610 --> 00:47:41.909
to another network once Kellner and Siegel canceled our television...
894
00:47:41.869 --> 00:47:45.289
they weren't interested after that. So basically when we had
895
00:47:45.349 --> 00:47:47.800
our television canceled, their interest was canceled.
896
00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:49.010
I'll add to that.
897
00:47:49.090 --> 00:47:51.039
And I'll add.
898
00:47:50.980 --> 00:47:52.400
To that, Chris and Scott, too.
899
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:56.139
I remember writing the cover story on Fuchsian Media buying WCW,
900
00:47:57.019 --> 00:47:59.860
you know, announcing the sale, and it was premature. Things
901
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.920
were not in place, and we did some, you know,
902
00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:06.360
real reporting on this and broke the news that, and
903
00:48:06.500 --> 00:48:08.510
I mean, I remember Dave Meltzer, the wrestling observer, just saying,
904
00:48:08.530 --> 00:48:10.469
you know, nope, it's just not true. You know, what
905
00:48:10.489 --> 00:48:13.510
wage reporting is not true. Um, because I mean, it was,
906
00:48:13.699 --> 00:48:15.679
it was so sure, you know, that they were, that
907
00:48:15.699 --> 00:48:16.989
they had the money and they were going to buy it.
908
00:48:17.059 --> 00:48:19.500
And we were reporting right away and we were proven
909
00:48:19.539 --> 00:48:23.699
right over time that they did not have the funding
910
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:26.380
that they said that they had. They didn't have the
911
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:31.070
I's dotted in the T's crossed. There were problems with
912
00:48:31.289 --> 00:48:34.210
that purchase agreement. And that's why it fell through. And
913
00:48:34.230 --> 00:48:37.650
it was only after Fugient Media wasn't what they appeared
914
00:48:37.690 --> 00:48:42.420
to be that then, uh, AOL Time Warner executives threw
915
00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:44.039
their hands up and said, screw it. We're just going
916
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:45.920
to cancel these shows. We're done with it. Once it
917
00:48:45.940 --> 00:48:49.019
became apparent that Fuchsiant was actually having to piece together
918
00:48:49.059 --> 00:48:52.090
something that wasn't nearly as impressive as what they initially
919
00:48:52.139 --> 00:48:56.289
proposed and put forth. I would have to go back
920
00:48:56.329 --> 00:48:57.969
and even read my stories at the time in the
921
00:48:58.010 --> 00:49:01.070
back issues on this, but it's a really fascinating time
922
00:49:01.090 --> 00:49:03.750
to go back and read the back issues of the
923
00:49:03.789 --> 00:49:06.630
Progressing Torch newsletter. If anybody listening to this wants to
924
00:49:06.690 --> 00:49:10.369
read real-time reporting that was ahead of the curve and
925
00:49:11.130 --> 00:49:13.090
putting out more details that I wrote that I can't
926
00:49:13.110 --> 00:49:15.139
even remember today. I'd have to go back and reread
927
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:19.409
all those issues. It was a dramatic six months, Jerry.
928
00:49:19.460 --> 00:49:22.139
Jarrett was in the running to buy it. Fuchsian Media
929
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:24.989
Ventures announced purchasing it, but we were reporting this is
930
00:49:25.090 --> 00:49:28.610
not a done deal. It is full of problems, and
931
00:49:28.690 --> 00:49:31.349
they're going to surface quickly through the cancellation and the
932
00:49:31.369 --> 00:49:33.690
purchase of WWF. Every one of those back issues is
933
00:49:33.710 --> 00:49:35.389
available if you're a VIP member, so you can get
934
00:49:35.449 --> 00:49:40.159
details on that at pwtorch.com slash govip. And you can
935
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:42.599
read what we were reporting at the time. And it
936
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:46.159
holds up today really well. And I would say the reporting,
937
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:49.059
I'll pat myself on the back and say our reporting
938
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:52.159
at the time is a more accurate reflection of what
939
00:49:52.179 --> 00:49:53.980
happened than even books that have been written since then
940
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:57.880
that did not source our newsletters on it. And you
941
00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:00.900
can see week by week how right we were about
942
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:03.019
a very complicated story. I'm really proud of the job
943
00:50:03.039 --> 00:50:05.199
we did on that. And if this is a story
944
00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:07.360
that interests you, I'd recommend you just go through and
945
00:50:08.019 --> 00:50:09.519
go to the back issue section when you sign up
946
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:11.579
as a VIP member and read through our cover stories
947
00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:14.440
and the WCW notebook and what we were.
948
00:50:14.380 --> 00:50:14.920
Doing at the time.
949
00:50:15.019 --> 00:50:18.679
It was Scott, the soap opera and the rollercoaster talking
950
00:50:18.699 --> 00:50:20.340
to guys in WCW during that stretch.
951
00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:23.059
It was, I mean, you know, we, it is what
952
00:50:23.099 --> 00:50:24.099
it is now. It's history.
953
00:50:24.139 --> 00:50:26.530
It happened, but man, I, you know, you just sort
954
00:50:26.550 --> 00:50:28.610
of felt like this company, this brand has been around forever.
955
00:50:29.289 --> 00:50:32.090
It's not, it can't go away. You know, it's, it's
956
00:50:32.130 --> 00:50:35.630
like the NFL going away. It's unimaginable. And yet it did.
957
00:50:35.670 --> 00:50:36.690
I mean, I, I don't want.
958
00:50:36.630 --> 00:50:41.320
To put Chris's second question off too long, but just
959
00:50:41.420 --> 00:50:43.940
the mood in those final months, it had to be
960
00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:46.159
tough showing up for work with that. I guess it's
961
00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:48.380
like TNA today, except nobody in TNA is really making
962
00:50:48.420 --> 00:50:51.409
full-time money. In WCW, it was a lot of people
963
00:50:51.429 --> 00:50:53.969
making good money in full-time careers who didn't know where
964
00:50:53.989 --> 00:50:55.329
they'd be in one month or six months.
965
00:50:57.210 --> 00:51:00.010
That's exactly right. And for most of us, I had
966
00:51:00.030 --> 00:51:02.909
a career outside of wrestling. I did wrestling just famously
967
00:51:02.949 --> 00:51:05.909
as a hobby, as a side job. When it went under,
968
00:51:05.929 --> 00:51:08.590
I just went back to my office. And that was it.
969
00:51:08.630 --> 00:51:11.329
But for the crew, the lighting guys, the camera guys,
970
00:51:11.369 --> 00:51:14.349
the grips, the floor directors, the ring crew, that was it.
971
00:51:14.690 --> 00:51:18.949
The business that they worked for up until Monday night
972
00:51:19.730 --> 00:51:22.719
didn't exist on Tuesday. And they had to go out
973
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:25.179
and pound the pavement and find the new gig doing something.
974
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:27.980
And I felt so bad for those guys. The wrestlers
975
00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:30.510
as well. There was a lot more opportunity for them. But,
976
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:33.940
you know, you figure... If you work in Atlanta, and
977
00:51:33.980 --> 00:51:36.300
most of them landed on their feet because Atlanta is
978
00:51:36.340 --> 00:51:39.139
this massive media market, but still you didn't know, and
979
00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:41.570
you had invested all that time and energy into helping
980
00:51:41.610 --> 00:51:43.929
build that brand and that company, and then for them
981
00:51:43.949 --> 00:51:48.150
to say, here's four-month severance, good luck, and that's it.
982
00:51:50.329 --> 00:51:52.250
Absolutely. Go ahead, Chris. I know you have a second
983
00:51:52.269 --> 00:51:53.349
question for Scott.
984
00:51:55.829 --> 00:52:02.699
Yeah. I'd like to hear a little bit– from you
985
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:05.639
in this interview about what you, because I know you
986
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:11.639
called The Last Nitro, and I've heard Tony Schiavone's perspective
987
00:52:11.659 --> 00:52:15.260
on what he was thinking at the time being there
988
00:52:15.300 --> 00:52:17.440
and seeing Shane McMahon walk in.
989
00:52:17.369 --> 00:52:17.829
And all that.
990
00:52:19.010 --> 00:52:24.030
But I also wanted to, if you would, have you
991
00:52:24.090 --> 00:52:29.289
elaborate on a quote that I've seen written that you
992
00:52:29.369 --> 00:52:33.280
said about your time in WWE and And that is,
993
00:52:34.050 --> 00:52:39.789
you said, I think it was, I was there as
994
00:52:39.889 --> 00:52:42.849
long as they wanted me to and as long as
995
00:52:42.869 --> 00:52:44.369
I wanted to be there.
996
00:52:44.389 --> 00:52:46.329
That's exactly right.
997
00:52:47.250 --> 00:52:50.030
Okay. I think I know what you mean by that,
998
00:52:50.070 --> 00:52:50.710
but I'd like.
999
00:52:50.590 --> 00:52:51.250
To hear.
1000
00:52:52.510 --> 00:52:57.070
Firsthand what you were thinking and why you maybe said that.
1001
00:52:58.699 --> 00:53:03.030
Well, the... They had brought me– that's a long answer.
1002
00:53:03.050 --> 00:53:05.349
I'll make it quick, Chris. But they brought me up
1003
00:53:05.750 --> 00:53:07.969
for a tryout. I spent a day just being put
1004
00:53:08.010 --> 00:53:11.849
through hell, not in a bad way, but just everything
1005
00:53:11.869 --> 00:53:15.639
they could possibly want me to do, I did, including– Wade,
1006
00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:20.519
you'd appreciate this. I did an hour-long broadcast of superstars.
1007
00:53:21.369 --> 00:53:23.530
where I was the host and Michael Hayes was the
1008
00:53:23.550 --> 00:53:26.530
color guy. And that's somewhere up in the catacombs of
1009
00:53:26.849 --> 00:53:29.639
WWE right now with me and Hayes hosting an hour
1010
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:32.380
of superstars. So I would love to see that. Never
1011
00:53:32.420 --> 00:53:36.420
have seen it. We had a blast, though. But when
1012
00:53:36.460 --> 00:53:39.500
I got there and they wanted, I'm not going to
1013
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:42.079
betray any confidences that may have been implied here, but
1014
00:53:42.139 --> 00:53:45.829
what they were offering me was pitiful. They wanted me
1015
00:53:45.849 --> 00:53:49.010
to quit my job, move my family to Connecticut, and
1016
00:53:49.030 --> 00:53:52.590
basically take a third of the money that I was making.
1017
00:53:52.670 --> 00:53:56.250
I said, no, no, and no. Thank you for a
1018
00:53:58.030 --> 00:54:00.170
good time and a good day and for the plane ticket.
1019
00:54:00.409 --> 00:54:03.469
Your day's working for a free world.
1020
00:54:03.489 --> 00:54:05.090
Your day's working for a free world.
1021
00:54:05.110 --> 00:54:08.059
Not especially when they wanted me to quit my job
1022
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:11.619
that I had been working at for 20-something years, and
1023
00:54:11.639 --> 00:54:13.179
they were going to reward me for quitting my job
1024
00:54:13.219 --> 00:54:15.559
by cutting my pay by two-thirds. No, I'm not doing that.
1025
00:54:16.300 --> 00:54:18.659
And so that was it. And when they came back
1026
00:54:18.699 --> 00:54:21.019
and said, we want to do this two-week thing with
1027
00:54:21.059 --> 00:54:24.760
you to launch the invasion angle said okay then i
1028
00:54:24.780 --> 00:54:26.880
can do and so we did you know the two
1029
00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:29.440
nights in tacoma and then the two nights in atlanta
1030
00:54:30.179 --> 00:54:32.400
um famously with it started off with the booker and
1031
00:54:32.460 --> 00:54:37.260
buff match and all of that just horribleness um but
1032
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:40.679
you know even even just for those two weeks and
1033
00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:44.320
four tapings i knew right then i i just did
1034
00:54:44.340 --> 00:54:47.860
not want to be there they were they were so unorganized,
1035
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:51.159
so unprofessional. They were more interested in how you looked
1036
00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:53.820
getting out of your car in the parking lot than
1037
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:56.880
having an organized television taping. You know, they didn't like
1038
00:54:56.920 --> 00:54:58.659
that I didn't wear a tie when I walked in
1039
00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:01.239
or something like that. I'm like, you've got to remind them,
1040
00:55:01.590 --> 00:55:05.710
it's 2 in the afternoon. Where's the run sheet? Where's
1041
00:55:05.730 --> 00:55:08.230
the format? We don't have one yet. We probably won't
1042
00:55:08.269 --> 00:55:11.369
have one. Just wing it. Like, oh, my God. And
1043
00:55:11.409 --> 00:55:13.619
I hope it's different now, and I'm sure it is.
1044
00:55:14.179 --> 00:55:18.670
But it was so slipshod, so unorganized, unprofessional. And so
1045
00:55:18.690 --> 00:55:20.469
it was two weeks, and it was as long as
1046
00:55:20.510 --> 00:55:23.070
they wanted me. And I realized after the fact that
1047
00:55:23.110 --> 00:55:24.510
was as long as I wanted to be there.
1048
00:55:27.530 --> 00:55:30.309
Before pushing play on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows,
1049
00:55:30.349 --> 00:55:34.139
check out pwtorch.com and our TV review section and skim
1050
00:55:34.179 --> 00:55:36.219
through a full rundown of the TV show. If you
1051
00:55:36.260 --> 00:55:38.159
didn't see it, that's your way to get an overview
1052
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:42.260
of what happened before you dive into our in-depth analysis
1053
00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:45.679
of the key happenings on the show. That's PWTorch.com, your
1054
00:55:45.699 --> 00:55:49.219
home for live TV coverage every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
1055
00:55:49.260 --> 00:55:51.460
with my TV reports. And also check out our NXT
1056
00:55:51.500 --> 00:55:54.280
and Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays, our Collision reports
1057
00:55:54.320 --> 00:55:56.260
on Saturday nights, and, of course, our live pay-per-view and
1058
00:55:56.300 --> 00:56:00.659
PLE coverage on weekends. All waiting for you at PWTorch.com.
1059
00:56:03.179 --> 00:56:03.960
Chris, do you have anything else?
1060
00:56:07.570 --> 00:56:07.639
No.
1061
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:10.469
That was good. Thanks, guys. That was really insightful.
1062
00:56:10.510 --> 00:56:10.860
Thank you.
1063
00:56:11.550 --> 00:56:12.309
Excellent. Thanks, Chris.
1064
00:56:12.969 --> 00:56:13.489
Appreciate it.
1065
00:56:13.780 --> 00:56:15.530
By the way, I do want to note for VIP members,
1066
00:56:15.570 --> 00:56:17.570
if they want to read the story that I wrote
1067
00:56:17.590 --> 00:56:20.389
in WHW Newswire on the sale to Fuchsian Media falling apart,
1068
00:56:20.409 --> 00:56:24.409
it was in the March 3, 2001 issue number 643.
1069
00:56:24.409 --> 00:56:28.050
The headline, the WHW sale to Fuchsian Media Ventures remains
1070
00:56:28.150 --> 00:56:30.730
in jeopardy of falling apart, but efforts are being made
1071
00:56:30.769 --> 00:56:33.050
to fix the problem. And I talk about Brad Siegel
1072
00:56:33.469 --> 00:56:35.289
flying to New York to meet with Fuchsian to try
1073
00:56:35.329 --> 00:56:37.570
to fix the problems and reach a new agreement with
1074
00:56:37.610 --> 00:56:41.690
different terms compared to the original one. and that there
1075
00:56:41.730 --> 00:56:47.210
was a major financial backer backed out once some, I believe,
1076
00:56:48.469 --> 00:56:51.070
some due diligence was done on the paperwork that was
1077
00:56:51.090 --> 00:56:55.030
originally presented to the investors that caused somebody to go,
1078
00:56:55.070 --> 00:56:57.260
wait a second, this isn't what we thought we were buying.
1079
00:56:58.139 --> 00:57:00.019
There's some issues here we didn't know about. So some
1080
00:57:00.059 --> 00:57:02.659
fascinating stuff in that back issue, and certainly the weeks
1081
00:57:02.699 --> 00:57:04.079
leading up to it, the months leading up to it,
1082
00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:06.619
and then the months that followed are interesting reading too.
1083
00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:08.840
Scott, let's go to another phone call. Let's go to 813NEXT.
1084
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:11.929
813, thanks for calling. Please state your name and where
1085
00:57:12.010 --> 00:57:12.920
you are calling from.
1086
00:57:12.940 --> 00:57:16.000
Hey, it's Jay from Tampa.
1087
00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:17.920
Hey, Jay, thanks for calling. What do you got for Scott?
1088
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:22.239
Yeah, a question for Scott.
1089
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:23.809
Kind of a two-part question.
1090
00:57:23.909 --> 00:57:28.469
I know you were with WCW, which in my opinion
1091
00:57:28.530 --> 00:57:36.070
still today has the best cruiser rates. So just with
1092
00:57:36.110 --> 00:57:41.329
this cruiserweight division that just started with WWE, my question
1093
00:57:41.349 --> 00:57:44.949
to you is, do you feel like the current commentary
1094
00:57:44.989 --> 00:57:48.010
is doing this cruiserweight division justice the way you guys
1095
00:57:48.070 --> 00:57:51.199
did with WCW cruiserweights?
1096
00:57:51.800 --> 00:57:53.159
And also.
1097
00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:57.559
With the introduction of cruiserweights and one of the most
1098
00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:04.449
recent world champions being I would say the same weight
1099
00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:07.650
as the cruiserweights that are coming up.
1100
00:58:09.510 --> 00:58:11.150
How would they justify that?
1101
00:58:11.190 --> 00:58:15.889
How do you think you justify Finn Balor as the
1102
00:58:16.070 --> 00:58:20.150
world champion and then you have someone like Tony Nese
1103
00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:24.639
that is a few pounds more than Finn Balor but
1104
00:58:24.679 --> 00:58:25.980
still in the cruiserweight division?
1105
00:58:27.780 --> 00:58:30.349
Uh that one i don't know uh you're i'll take
1106
00:58:30.369 --> 00:58:33.829
the second one uh first jay i i will defer
1107
00:58:33.849 --> 00:58:36.849
to wade keller and his expertise on that i i
1108
00:58:36.889 --> 00:58:39.000
have no idea how that's supposed to work i mean
1109
00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:41.760
back when we were all kids the cruiserweight guys and
1110
00:58:41.800 --> 00:58:44.460
they would say you had to be under 225 to
1111
00:58:44.500 --> 00:58:46.980
win it uh to be in the cruiserweight division they
1112
00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:49.289
would actually run angles about bringing out the scales you
1113
00:58:49.329 --> 00:58:51.989
know did you make weight and all that and And
1114
00:58:52.250 --> 00:58:55.269
then back in those days, the heavyweight champion was a
1115
00:58:55.329 --> 00:58:57.559
real heavyweight. I mean, it was Harley Race, it was
1116
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.579
Dusty Rhodes, it was Ric Flair, people that hadn't seen
1117
00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:04.639
at least a worked weight of 225 in years. So
1118
00:59:05.179 --> 00:59:07.010
as to why it's that way now, I have no idea.
1119
00:59:07.030 --> 00:59:09.969
I don't mind Finn Balor being world champion at all, but...
1120
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:14.019
that's a great question. That's one of those eternal questions like,
1121
00:59:14.139 --> 00:59:17.070
why does a dropkick hurt when it connects? But if
1122
00:59:17.090 --> 00:59:18.889
you miss a dropkick and you land the same way,
1123
00:59:18.949 --> 00:59:20.969
now you're devastated and you can't get up. I never
1124
00:59:20.989 --> 00:59:23.769
understood that one either. But as far as the first
1125
00:59:23.809 --> 00:59:27.510
part of your question– strictly as it comes to the
1126
00:59:27.550 --> 00:59:30.889
cruiserweight classic that the WWE is doing right now, the announcers,
1127
00:59:31.530 --> 00:59:34.260
I think it's still Daniel Bryan and Mauro Ranallo. Mauro
1128
00:59:34.280 --> 00:59:40.079
Ranallo is the best announcer in wrestling, bar none. I
1129
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:43.039
take a backseat to no one in my admiration for
1130
00:59:43.079 --> 00:59:46.840
him and his skills and abilities. And I am thrilled
1131
00:59:47.300 --> 00:59:49.780
that he's gotten to where he is. I've watched him
1132
00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:54.030
on New Japan with Josh Barnett all those years. And just,
1133
00:59:54.269 --> 00:59:56.559
I would watch that show every, just for him. I
1134
00:59:56.579 --> 00:59:58.500
know that it's an anomaly to say, I watched the
1135
00:59:58.519 --> 01:00:00.599
show for the announcer. You're never supposed to do that,
1136
01:00:00.980 --> 01:00:03.920
but I did because he was so good. And I'm
1137
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:07.400
so glad that he's there now. And famously on like
1138
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:09.949
another podcast, when he was announced, he was going to
1139
01:00:09.989 --> 01:00:14.670
be joining the WWE. I thought, okay, well, good. They'll
1140
01:00:14.730 --> 01:00:17.190
change him. They'll turn him into something else. They'll rename him,
1141
01:00:17.210 --> 01:00:20.929
you know, Ross Russell or something like that. But no,
1142
01:00:21.030 --> 01:00:23.309
he's still Marlon Allo and he's still doing the same
1143
01:00:23.349 --> 01:00:26.679
incredible job. He always did. So those guys are doing
1144
01:00:26.699 --> 01:00:30.639
a great job of getting over the cruiserweights in the WWE.
1145
01:00:30.940 --> 01:00:36.980
The overall announcing in the WWE, not so good. Anything
1146
01:00:37.019 --> 01:00:41.000
that still has Michael Cole and Jiggly Boobs Layfield at
1147
01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:43.989
the announce position, I'm not a fan of. So as
1148
01:00:44.030 --> 01:00:48.010
long as those two guys are there, I'm not listening.
1149
01:00:48.050 --> 01:00:50.590
I'll listen on mute. But I could listen to Marlon
1150
01:00:50.650 --> 01:00:52.949
Allo call a one-horse race. He's phenomenal.
1151
01:00:53.849 --> 01:00:58.650
Yeah, Mauro brings a knowledge of wrestling moves, knowledge of
1152
01:00:58.690 --> 01:01:01.670
wrestling history, knowledge of MMA, which is helpful with wrestlers
1153
01:01:01.809 --> 01:01:06.420
incorporating MMA submissions into their repertoire. And then he also
1154
01:01:06.500 --> 01:01:11.360
just brings up a sports-like passion for seeing the people
1155
01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:13.739
who deserve to win getting a chance to win. And
1156
01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:15.000
I mean, I think it's been beaten out of him
1157
01:01:15.019 --> 01:01:17.489
a little bit lately. And it's my one criticism. I
1158
01:01:17.530 --> 01:01:19.670
don't know if it's my only criticism, but my main
1159
01:01:19.730 --> 01:01:21.929
criticism by far, if it's announcing lately, and I think
1160
01:01:21.969 --> 01:01:25.460
it's how he's produced, is that he's too nonchalant about
1161
01:01:25.820 --> 01:01:28.519
heels cheating to win. I mean, how is a heel
1162
01:01:28.539 --> 01:01:30.650
supposed to get heat if the guy you trust, the
1163
01:01:30.690 --> 01:01:35.590
voice of the brand, isn't outraged, isn't disappointed at least
1164
01:01:35.750 --> 01:01:40.269
that a highly competitive match ends due to chicanery, due
1165
01:01:40.289 --> 01:01:45.860
to shenanigans? I mean, Scott, I can't believe that at
1166
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.920
any time that I'm watching wrestling and covering wrestling, that
1167
01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:53.610
I feel like it needs to be explained to wrestling bookers, promoters, producers, directors,
1168
01:01:53.699 --> 01:01:57.989
and announcers, that if a heel cheats, your job is
1169
01:01:58.030 --> 01:01:59.849
to make sure that there's heat on the heel for cheating,
1170
01:02:00.210 --> 01:02:04.329
not congratulating him for getting away with it, or ignoring
1171
01:02:04.389 --> 01:02:06.280
it and acting like it's just, yeah, that's just the
1172
01:02:06.300 --> 01:02:10.340
way things are. Does it strike you when you listen to,
1173
01:02:10.460 --> 01:02:11.840
and I know you kind of tune out some of
1174
01:02:11.860 --> 01:02:15.360
the bad announcing, but over the years, have you noticed
1175
01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:19.340
a shift away from what you grew up watching and
1176
01:02:19.420 --> 01:02:22.619
certain fundamentals that just seemed, I mean, I just, I
1177
01:02:22.659 --> 01:02:25.760
feel like when I watch announcing sometimes it's like watching
1178
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:28.340
a basketball player, when a ball gets passed to him
1179
01:02:28.360 --> 01:02:30.250
in the NBA, just run with the ball and get
1180
01:02:30.269 --> 01:02:34.530
called for traveling every time he's passed the ball. Like, no,
1181
01:02:34.570 --> 01:02:36.989
you're supposed to dribble. Then it won't be traveling. And
1182
01:02:37.010 --> 01:02:39.369
that's what I feel like when I watch announcers just
1183
01:02:39.730 --> 01:02:40.349
go like, Oh.
1184
01:02:40.269 --> 01:02:41.269
Yeah, he just used the chair.
1185
01:02:41.489 --> 01:02:41.750
Okay.
1186
01:02:41.929 --> 01:02:42.429
Good for him.
1187
01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:44.880
Way to take advantage of the rules. The more you,
1188
01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:46.840
the more you can get away with the better. It's like,
1189
01:02:47.320 --> 01:02:49.039
A heel will say that, and then the lead announcer
1190
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:51.519
just goes, on to the next thing. It's like, no,
1191
01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:54.179
you've got to have a counter voice or fans are
1192
01:02:54.199 --> 01:02:56.719
going to start cheering heels for getting away with what
1193
01:02:56.739 --> 01:02:57.159
they can.
1194
01:02:57.500 --> 01:02:59.500
You know, with Eddie, it was cute. Lie, cheat, and steal.
1195
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:02.000
I mean, there was a context to his character with that.
1196
01:03:02.300 --> 01:03:04.980
But it's like everybody took it to heart and said, yep, lying, cheating,
1197
01:03:05.019 --> 01:03:07.659
and stealing is good. Well, try that next time someone
1198
01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:10.179
breaks into your house and takes your computer. You're probably
1199
01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:10.889
not going to like it.
1200
01:03:11.539 --> 01:03:11.699
Yeah.
1201
01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:12.980
Mm-hmm.
1202
01:03:13.690 --> 01:03:18.550
Well, announcers, first, you're exactly right, 100% right. And announcers
1203
01:03:18.590 --> 01:03:22.579
are lagging indicators in that realm. And what we've seen
1204
01:03:22.659 --> 01:03:26.219
is a complete blurring of the lines between heels and babyfaces.
1205
01:03:26.539 --> 01:03:29.159
And it's hard to even imagine what a turn would
1206
01:03:29.179 --> 01:03:32.559
look like anymore. You know, when Seth Rollins turned on
1207
01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:35.820
Ambrose and Reigns a couple of years ago, it almost
1208
01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:38.050
seemed like he was turning babyface to me. It's just
1209
01:03:38.070 --> 01:03:42.980
a turn, babyface or heel anymore just really– a turn
1210
01:03:43.019 --> 01:03:44.940
is a turn, but you're not really turning from baby
1211
01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:50.179
to heel, you're just turning. And the announcers, at some point,
1212
01:03:50.500 --> 01:03:52.940
the ones, you know, like me, old as all hell,
1213
01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:56.730
and grew up watching Lance Russell and Gordon Soley and
1214
01:03:56.769 --> 01:04:00.130
Jim Ross that could, you know, make you believe everything
1215
01:04:00.190 --> 01:04:02.429
and you felt their passion, I think those days are
1216
01:04:02.449 --> 01:04:05.809
probably over, like good heel or babyface turns are over,
1217
01:04:05.949 --> 01:04:08.030
because it's not a heel or babyface turn, it's just
1218
01:04:08.110 --> 01:04:11.630
a turn anymore, and The announcers are only going to,
1219
01:04:11.900 --> 01:04:14.139
first off, they're only going to sell and put over
1220
01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:17.460
what the producers tell them to. If Vince McMahon says,
1221
01:04:17.500 --> 01:04:21.139
don't you dare bury this heel for using a chair, Mauro,
1222
01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:23.699
he's not going to bury the heel for using a chair.
1223
01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:26.639
It's just the law of the jungle. And that may
1224
01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:27.280
be all it is.
1225
01:04:29.679 --> 01:04:30.199
Hey, everyone.
1226
01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:32.960
Greg Parks here. You've probably heard me hosting Wrestling Night
1227
01:04:32.980 --> 01:04:36.079
in America after pay-per-views and also co-hosting the Tuesday flagship
1228
01:04:36.099 --> 01:04:39.519
with Wade Keller. I also host a VIP exclusive podcast.
1229
01:04:39.239 --> 01:04:40.789
Every week called Greg Parks Out Loud.
1230
01:04:41.409 --> 01:04:43.489
In this podcast, I delve into a single topic for
1231
01:04:43.510 --> 01:04:45.570
around 20 minutes, perfect length for one of your daily
1232
01:04:45.610 --> 01:04:48.269
commutes or while walking the dog. A couple of my
1233
01:04:48.329 --> 01:04:50.610
recent episodes included a look at TNA as they moved
1234
01:04:50.630 --> 01:04:55.280
to AMC and WWE and AEW injuries for the year 2025.
1235
01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:57.699
You can listen to VIP podcasts with a VIP membership
1236
01:04:57.739 --> 01:05:01.139
on many platforms, including on Patreon, Spotify, the Apple Podcasts
1237
01:05:01.179 --> 01:05:04.000
native app on iPhone and CarPlay, just about every popular
1238
01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:06.719
iOS and Android podcast app out there, and even stream
1239
01:05:06.760 --> 01:05:10.110
right from the ad-free PWTorch VIP website. Full details on
1240
01:05:10.130 --> 01:05:14.550
VIP membership at pwtorch.com slash govip. As an added bonus,
1241
01:05:14.710 --> 01:05:17.210
VIP membership means you won't hear this commercial again, or
1242
01:05:17.309 --> 01:05:19.969
any commercials, as commercial breaks are skipped right over on
1243
01:05:19.989 --> 01:05:23.159
the VIP podcast feed in addition to all the commercial-free
1244
01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:24.099
VIP podcasts.
1245
01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:24.900
Check it out.
1246
01:05:25.059 --> 01:05:26.960
We'd love for you to join our community and unlock
1247
01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:29.260
access to all our VIP-exclusive content.
1248
01:05:31.659 --> 01:05:32.000
Very good.
1249
01:05:32.099 --> 01:05:34.320
Let's take another call, and then I definitely want to
1250
01:05:34.340 --> 01:05:36.360
ask about... Scott, can you stay with us past the
1251
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:37.960
one-hour mark, or do you have to run?
1252
01:05:38.500 --> 01:05:38.699
Sure.
1253
01:05:39.099 --> 01:05:39.340
Okay.
1254
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:40.280
I wanted to check with you.
1255
01:05:40.300 --> 01:05:40.440
Sure.
1256
01:05:40.460 --> 01:05:41.079
That's good. Yeah.
1257
01:05:41.239 --> 01:05:41.400
Cool.
1258
01:05:41.440 --> 01:05:41.679
Okay.
1259
01:05:41.699 --> 01:05:41.880
Great.
1260
01:05:42.159 --> 01:05:44.469
We've just got so many people on hold, and I've
1261
01:05:44.510 --> 01:05:45.889
got things I still want to ask you about I
1262
01:05:45.889 --> 01:05:46.309
haven't gotten to.
1263
01:05:46.329 --> 01:05:46.789
All right.
1264
01:05:46.809 --> 01:05:49.829
Let's go to 314 next. 314, please state your name
1265
01:05:49.849 --> 01:05:50.510
and where you're calling from.
1266
01:05:52.929 --> 01:05:54.809
Hello, guys. This is Damian calling from St.
1267
01:05:54.809 --> 01:05:55.070
Louis.
1268
01:05:55.449 --> 01:05:55.829
Hey, Damian.
1269
01:05:55.849 --> 01:05:56.969
Thanks for calling. What have you got for Scott?
1270
01:05:59.190 --> 01:06:03.630
Well... listening to this whole conversation is very fascinating to me.
1271
01:06:04.369 --> 01:06:08.909
And I pretty much was there when WCW, you know,
1272
01:06:08.969 --> 01:06:12.119
pretty much had their final Nitro. I remember watching it
1273
01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:14.840
on my big screen TV, but of course I got
1274
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:18.719
the story a few days earlier that Vince McMahon had
1275
01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:22.539
bought the company. And I was like, I couldn't believe that. So,
1276
01:06:22.719 --> 01:06:26.940
I mean, I just felt for everybody, Scott, Shivani, everybody
1277
01:06:27.039 --> 01:06:29.400
else at that company, it was like, oh, God, they're
1278
01:06:29.420 --> 01:06:32.079
going to be out of the job. So it was
1279
01:06:32.099 --> 01:06:35.809
just very, very fascinating about that time. With that being said,
1280
01:06:36.570 --> 01:06:39.210
we all know what's going on with the situation with TNA.
1281
01:06:40.150 --> 01:06:43.210
Do you feel like TNA is in a similar position
1282
01:06:43.570 --> 01:06:46.090
to how WCW was back in 2001, or is it
1283
01:06:47.059 --> 01:06:50.500
just a different set of circumstances that happen to have
1284
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:52.139
similar outcomes?
1285
01:06:53.300 --> 01:06:56.619
Yeah, Scott, there's been from the beginning of TNA, there
1286
01:06:56.639 --> 01:07:00.199
have been parallels to WCW. I mean, the talent they
1287
01:07:00.219 --> 01:07:04.119
tried to acquire, the bookers they used, the philosophy, the
1288
01:07:04.219 --> 01:07:08.329
fans they targeted, the angles they ran. It's only fitting.
1289
01:07:08.909 --> 01:07:10.769
I mean, and I don't say this like with joy.
1290
01:07:10.809 --> 01:07:14.489
I'm just saying objectively speaking, it's almost fitting that they're
1291
01:07:14.510 --> 01:07:17.690
going through some of the same issues, you know, 15
1292
01:07:17.690 --> 01:07:21.219
years later that WCW did. It's following a similar pattern.
1293
01:07:21.239 --> 01:07:22.179
You've got, I mean.
1294
01:07:23.380 --> 01:07:27.619
Bill Corgan and Dixie Carter are probably pretty much set
1295
01:07:27.659 --> 01:07:30.719
to go to war, um, over this company and how
1296
01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:34.670
things have been handled. And I think there's a lot
1297
01:07:34.690 --> 01:07:37.170
of parallels in the vying for ownership of TNA in
1298
01:07:37.190 --> 01:07:40.269
the past, uh, few months that are similar to the
1299
01:07:40.289 --> 01:07:43.409
vying for ownership with Bischoff and Fuchsiant. And I mean, the, the,
1300
01:07:43.590 --> 01:07:47.769
you know, the, the, the major financial backer of Fuchsiant
1301
01:07:47.909 --> 01:07:49.590
didn't have a chance to look at the books of
1302
01:07:49.840 --> 01:07:54.789
WCW until the, the, uh, sales agreement was signed, the
1303
01:07:54.829 --> 01:07:56.510
intent to buy was signed. And once he got a
1304
01:07:56.550 --> 01:07:58.369
look at the books, he was like, whoa, wait a second.
1305
01:07:58.389 --> 01:08:01.090
This is not what I was presented with. This deal's
1306
01:08:01.329 --> 01:08:04.809
basically off. I think there's some, not exactly that going
1307
01:08:04.869 --> 01:08:07.510
on in TNA right now, but some similar things in
1308
01:08:07.550 --> 01:08:10.199
terms of games being played by different parties who want
1309
01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:13.440
to keep TNA. And it's just, it's a mess right now.
1310
01:08:14.219 --> 01:08:16.239
And we don't know what the future is. Obviously, Scott,
1311
01:08:16.279 --> 01:08:19.119
the scale of TNA at this point with a few
1312
01:08:19.140 --> 01:08:21.579
hundred thousand viewers on a third or fourth tier network
1313
01:08:21.619 --> 01:08:25.229
with no house shows and only occasional pay-per-views, and a
1314
01:08:25.250 --> 01:08:27.789
couple international deals worth a few bucks here and there.
1315
01:08:28.350 --> 01:08:32.970
Very different scale than WCW, but there are some eerie similarities, too.
1316
01:08:32.989 --> 01:08:39.119
It's true, but the biggest difference to me, and this
1317
01:08:39.140 --> 01:08:40.720
may be a distinction without a difference when it all
1318
01:08:40.739 --> 01:08:42.060
comes down to it, but the biggest one to me
1319
01:08:42.079 --> 01:08:45.199
is that we were part, in WCW, part of the
1320
01:08:45.260 --> 01:08:50.189
Turner-Time Warner empire. That place was in no danger of
1321
01:08:50.229 --> 01:08:55.220
going under. It's still thriving today. And TNA doesn't have
1322
01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:59.210
that big corporate umbrella protecting it. Now, I know Dixie's
1323
01:08:59.250 --> 01:09:01.970
family and all of that. and that's one thing. But
1324
01:09:02.010 --> 01:09:06.010
they don't have the luxury that we did in WCW
1325
01:09:06.229 --> 01:09:11.109
of losing $ 50, $ 60, $ 80 million a year and still
1326
01:09:11.189 --> 01:09:14.340
being allowed to go forward. They're hanging on by a
1327
01:09:14.500 --> 01:09:17.880
thread and have been for a long time. And that's
1328
01:09:17.939 --> 01:09:22.310
the difference. And that TNA... its survival was at stake.
1329
01:09:22.350 --> 01:09:25.829
With WCW, our survival wasn't at stake as far as
1330
01:09:25.869 --> 01:09:28.529
we knew because we were part of that empire. It
1331
01:09:28.569 --> 01:09:30.050
was just a matter of where we were going to
1332
01:09:30.069 --> 01:09:32.810
be moved and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. At
1333
01:09:32.850 --> 01:09:35.189
the end of the day, it didn't work out that way, obviously.
1334
01:09:35.510 --> 01:09:37.550
But I think with T & A, it's in a
1335
01:09:37.649 --> 01:09:41.529
fight for its literal life as a company where we
1336
01:09:41.569 --> 01:09:44.260
thought we were, okay, well, we might be bought out.
1337
01:09:44.300 --> 01:09:46.000
Somebody will come in and save the day. There'll be
1338
01:09:46.020 --> 01:09:48.460
a white knight on a white horse come in and
1339
01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:50.680
pick up the pieces and you know, put us on
1340
01:09:50.699 --> 01:09:54.520
another network or save the day. TNA knows that it's,
1341
01:09:55.119 --> 01:09:58.159
you know, one day away or 10 hours away from
1342
01:09:58.319 --> 01:10:03.539
going completely under. We never saw that coming. Yeah. Yeah.
1343
01:10:04.380 --> 01:10:08.000
The, the, the, that final nitro and watching Shane McMahon
1344
01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:11.189
walk out and flare versus sting, you know, for the
1345
01:10:11.239 --> 01:10:15.329
final time, it, it, it all is even, even all this,
1346
01:10:15.350 --> 01:10:17.909
you know, 15 years later, it's got to feel surreal.
1347
01:10:18.869 --> 01:10:19.909
Like, did that really happen?
1348
01:10:22.710 --> 01:10:27.609
Yeah, you know, at some point, and I've heard Tony's
1349
01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:30.960
comments on this too, and I echo everything he said,
1350
01:10:31.340 --> 01:10:34.380
but for us and for everybody, that was our job.
1351
01:10:35.020 --> 01:10:37.479
You know, we had a job to do. Whether we
1352
01:10:37.500 --> 01:10:40.880
were going to be employed after 9 o'clock that night
1353
01:10:41.020 --> 01:10:43.699
or not, up until that point, we had a job
1354
01:10:43.739 --> 01:10:46.460
to do. And, you know, we were professionals, and we
1355
01:10:46.500 --> 01:10:48.859
had trained, and we had worked hard to get where
1356
01:10:48.899 --> 01:10:49.279
we were.
1357
01:10:49.310 --> 01:10:50.149
So it.
1358
01:10:52.090 --> 01:10:54.550
When we, when, when it ended, when Sting and Flair
1359
01:10:54.630 --> 01:10:57.270
ended and we made, you know, the call after that, uh,
1360
01:10:57.310 --> 01:11:00.409
post-match and then we, you know, turned it over to Vince, uh,
1361
01:11:00.449 --> 01:11:04.300
who had the rest of the show, then it became,
1362
01:11:04.319 --> 01:11:07.109
I'll say it became unprofessional. It, we weren't doing any,
1363
01:11:07.119 --> 01:11:09.159
we weren't doing the show, but then it became emotional,
1364
01:11:09.659 --> 01:11:12.260
you know, lots of hugs and lots of tears backstage and,
1365
01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:15.859
and all of that. But, um, up until, up until the,
1366
01:11:15.939 --> 01:11:18.329
you know, there's no red light anymore, but up until
1367
01:11:18.350 --> 01:11:21.569
the red light went off, um, We had a job
1368
01:11:21.590 --> 01:11:23.390
to do, and that's all we were concerned about.
1369
01:11:23.409 --> 01:11:28.909
In the final month or year, the final months or year,
1370
01:11:29.319 --> 01:11:31.619
how did the mood in the company change? I mean,
1371
01:11:32.380 --> 01:11:36.659
did it ever feel like the end is coming, or
1372
01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:38.859
did it feel like we're going to show up, we're
1373
01:11:38.880 --> 01:11:41.630
going to do what we can, and we're going to
1374
01:11:41.659 --> 01:11:44.409
do our jobs, and it will work itself out? It
1375
01:11:44.430 --> 01:11:46.590
just always does, one way or the other. And this
1376
01:11:46.649 --> 01:11:47.949
is even prior to Fugient Media.
1377
01:11:47.970 --> 01:11:48.090
Yeah.
1378
01:11:48.670 --> 01:11:51.029
When things were really, really down. I mean, you know,
1379
01:11:51.069 --> 01:11:52.979
in the six months to a year before that, when
1380
01:11:53.539 --> 01:11:56.979
Ross started decimating Nitro and the ratings, Thunder turned into
1381
01:11:57.020 --> 01:12:01.220
this just, you know, what's the adjective for Thunder in
1382
01:12:01.279 --> 01:12:02.420
its last year or so?
1383
01:12:04.720 --> 01:12:06.810
Sparsely attended is one I would use.
1384
01:12:06.890 --> 01:12:12.670
Sparsely attended, dark, drab, sad, pathetic, disorganized. You know, how
1385
01:12:12.710 --> 01:12:13.289
did the mood change?
1386
01:12:13.310 --> 01:12:15.390
Because, I mean, you were there for a peak, and
1387
01:12:15.409 --> 01:12:17.989
then you were there for, a time when, you know,
1388
01:12:18.329 --> 01:12:20.350
I mean, in 2001, the number one guy on the
1389
01:12:20.390 --> 01:12:23.810
roster who was active was Scott Steiner. You know, I mean, like,
1390
01:12:24.020 --> 01:12:27.220
they had so many guys on injured reserve or working part-time, and,
1391
01:12:28.260 --> 01:12:31.340
you know, Kevin Nash and Goldberg and Sting were not,
1392
01:12:31.640 --> 01:12:33.539
you know, were top guys, but they weren't active very much.
1393
01:12:33.579 --> 01:12:36.000
I mean, you had Booker T, Jeff Jarrett, Dallas Page,
1394
01:12:36.020 --> 01:12:38.060
and Scott Steiner as your top four active wrestlers.
1395
01:12:38.140 --> 01:12:38.859
It was rough.
1396
01:12:40.819 --> 01:12:45.739
Yeah. In your two... options that you gave at the
1397
01:12:45.779 --> 01:12:48.300
beginning of the question, the second one, that we had
1398
01:12:48.340 --> 01:12:51.060
a job to do. We were going to show up,
1399
01:12:51.180 --> 01:12:54.399
and we knew that somehow it would work itself out.
1400
01:12:54.470 --> 01:12:56.789
We didn't know we were going to go under, but
1401
01:12:56.829 --> 01:12:59.529
we figured change was coming. And this dates back to
1402
01:12:59.890 --> 01:13:02.750
maybe not a year before the end, but at least
1403
01:13:03.449 --> 01:13:07.329
the mid to late summer of 2000. We knew something
1404
01:13:07.369 --> 01:13:09.350
was going to happen. We knew a change was coming,
1405
01:13:09.380 --> 01:13:12.359
but we didn't know what. But we didn't think anything
1406
01:13:12.420 --> 01:13:17.369
about we won't be here come March or April, I
1407
01:13:17.409 --> 01:13:19.449
guess that, you know, it was like, okay, we might
1408
01:13:19.470 --> 01:13:22.149
have new ownership. We might be a more scaled back company.
1409
01:13:22.189 --> 01:13:24.529
We might go dark for a month and then relaunch.
1410
01:13:25.289 --> 01:13:27.560
You know, we heard all of that, but going completely
1411
01:13:27.609 --> 01:13:31.000
away was not in the equation. And that, that was
1412
01:13:31.060 --> 01:13:33.680
a hard pill to swallow. And I can't speak for everybody.
1413
01:13:33.699 --> 01:13:35.960
I'm sure the guys up in the 12th floor at
1414
01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:39.420
CNN Center knew, but I didn't know. I don't think
1415
01:13:39.479 --> 01:13:41.479
most of the guys knew that. what was going to
1416
01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:45.390
happen Monday night until that Thursday when they brought us
1417
01:13:45.470 --> 01:13:50.689
all into the log cabin facility for power plants and
1418
01:13:50.770 --> 01:13:56.109
production studios for WCW and then told us. So it
1419
01:13:56.149 --> 01:13:59.949
was a shock when it happened. Yeah, all right.
1420
01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:03.640
You know that last segment you're just listening to and
1421
01:14:03.659 --> 01:14:05.699
the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those
1422
01:14:05.739 --> 01:14:08.239
can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You
1423
01:14:08.260 --> 01:14:12.430
can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash
1424
01:14:12.470 --> 01:14:17.170
GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP.
1425
01:14:17.529 --> 01:14:21.250
Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account,
1426
01:14:21.390 --> 01:14:23.310
through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up
1427
01:14:23.350 --> 01:14:26.520
with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app
1428
01:14:26.680 --> 01:14:29.510
with a full VIP membership. You can customize the feed
1429
01:14:29.550 --> 01:14:32.890
for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go
1430
01:14:32.930 --> 01:14:36.569
to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the
1431
01:14:36.720 --> 01:14:41.039
options to listen commercial-free. And with upper-tier options, unlock our
1432
01:14:41.140 --> 01:14:46.920
VIP-exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week every week. Scott,
1433
01:14:47.060 --> 01:14:52.149
Bill Goldberg, coming back to Raw on Monday. When I
1434
01:14:52.199 --> 01:14:54.729
say Bill Goldberg, there's got to be an on-air comment.
1435
01:14:55.829 --> 01:14:58.449
an impression of what was happening on air with Goldberg.
1436
01:14:58.489 --> 01:15:01.829
This phenomenon, this guy coming from the power plant, never
1437
01:15:01.850 --> 01:15:05.699
cut a wrestling promo, never, quote, drew a dime, and
1438
01:15:05.880 --> 01:15:10.060
never had a good match, and didn't understand or even
1439
01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:12.079
have much of a passion for the wrestling industry.
1440
01:15:12.760 --> 01:15:13.899
Overnight, practically.
1441
01:15:14.039 --> 01:15:16.439
I mean, just comes in, wins some squashes, and all
1442
01:15:16.460 --> 01:15:20.720
of a sudden, it just shows how magical and unpredictable
1443
01:15:21.090 --> 01:15:25.020
wrestling stardom can be sometimes. You know, Steve Austin... Yes,
1444
01:15:25.060 --> 01:15:27.119
stunning Steve Austin. Well, we can talk about him too.
1445
01:15:27.220 --> 01:15:30.079
A lot of people recognized him as a potential future star,
1446
01:15:30.420 --> 01:15:33.649
but going from the ringmaster to Stone Cold almost overnight
1447
01:15:33.739 --> 01:15:36.810
into a huge megastar helped a little bit, buoyed by
1448
01:15:37.109 --> 01:15:40.109
Mike Tyson and Vince McMahon turning heel and Mike Tyson
1449
01:15:40.149 --> 01:15:40.670
rubbing shoulders.
1450
01:15:40.750 --> 01:15:41.989
But still, that was amazing.
1451
01:15:42.029 --> 01:15:48.060
But Goldberg, I mean, that was just such an amazing
1452
01:15:48.239 --> 01:15:51.960
rise in a vacuum. And I think part of what
1453
01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:56.060
happened is there was a vacuum– a lack of top babyfaces,
1454
01:15:56.140 --> 01:16:02.079
and WCW fans were so hungry for a fresh, hot
1455
01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:06.510
babyface to complement Dallas Page, basically, at that point.
1456
01:16:06.590 --> 01:16:07.109
And Sting.
1457
01:16:07.869 --> 01:16:10.949
And they saw Goldberg as our Steve Austin. It was
1458
01:16:10.989 --> 01:16:13.930
an amazing confluence. Talk about the on-air Bill Goldberg for
1459
01:16:13.949 --> 01:16:17.109
a moment and his rise and what memories come back
1460
01:16:17.130 --> 01:16:17.939
when you think about that.
1461
01:16:19.890 --> 01:16:23.939
Well, Goldberg was the anomaly. You talked about Austin. Austin
1462
01:16:23.949 --> 01:16:28.460
had been in the business for, before the Stone Cold character,
1463
01:16:28.859 --> 01:16:31.899
King of the Ring, what, 96 or 97, somewhere in there.
1464
01:16:32.180 --> 01:16:33.560
He had been in the business for eight or nine
1465
01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:36.439
years by that point and wasn't, I won't say an
1466
01:16:36.500 --> 01:16:39.560
established superstar, but was an established talent. Everyone knew that
1467
01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:41.819
guy was great. He had had that run in ECW
1468
01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:46.300
immediately before he went to the WWF. Stone Cold Steve
1469
01:16:46.380 --> 01:16:49.739
Austin becoming a major star It was a matter of when,
1470
01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:52.840
not if. And The Rock is another one. But Rocky
1471
01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:54.760
had been in the business for two or three, maybe
1472
01:16:54.859 --> 01:16:58.189
four years before he even started the Rocky Maivia stuff.
1473
01:16:58.229 --> 01:17:00.689
He was Flex in Memphis and all of that. And plus,
1474
01:17:01.069 --> 01:17:03.750
his heritage, his pedigree, he was born to be in
1475
01:17:03.789 --> 01:17:08.010
the business. So even Rocky and Stone Cold, even though
1476
01:17:08.029 --> 01:17:10.989
they seemed to jump to the very top overnight, they
1477
01:17:11.090 --> 01:17:12.409
worked and they got there.
1478
01:17:12.890 --> 01:17:13.430
Goldberg.
1479
01:17:13.970 --> 01:17:18.810
had five dark matches before he got his first on-air win,
1480
01:17:18.909 --> 01:17:22.699
which was the first match in that winning streak that
1481
01:17:22.739 --> 01:17:28.220
went on forever. So he was pushed from his sixth
1482
01:17:28.479 --> 01:17:31.720
total match, his very first TV match, he was pushed
1483
01:17:31.739 --> 01:17:35.300
to the top. He did the thing with Raven to
1484
01:17:35.319 --> 01:17:36.899
win the U.S. title and all that, so he did
1485
01:17:36.979 --> 01:17:39.279
his stair step to get to the very top, but
1486
01:17:39.319 --> 01:17:39.760
it was a really.
1487
01:17:41.289 --> 01:17:45.260
Rushed push because he had the look. He looked like
1488
01:17:45.300 --> 01:17:47.699
he could kill you. And when he's in the ring
1489
01:17:47.739 --> 01:17:50.279
with that intensity and in that kind of shape and
1490
01:17:50.319 --> 01:17:54.979
those eyes and just the way he moved, he looked
1491
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:58.310
like this guy's not a wrestler. This guy's just crazy
1492
01:17:58.350 --> 01:18:01.680
enough to kill somebody and then it worked and he
1493
01:18:01.739 --> 01:18:05.060
wasn't obviously he's a terrific guy but when he was
1494
01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:07.180
in that zone as it were the old Ken Shamrock
1495
01:18:07.199 --> 01:18:09.500
thing he looked like he could do some serious damage
1496
01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:11.739
and he's the anomaly you know to this day it's
1497
01:18:11.779 --> 01:18:14.109
going to be it's going to be very difficult to
1498
01:18:14.149 --> 01:18:18.550
see anybody have that kind of meteoric rise like Goldberg
1499
01:18:18.590 --> 01:18:23.149
did without anyone you know paving the way for him
1500
01:18:23.529 --> 01:18:27.579
and his family getting him there you know working the
1501
01:18:27.699 --> 01:18:31.359
indie circuit you know anything like that he just showed
1502
01:18:31.479 --> 01:18:33.100
up and he was a superstar.
1503
01:18:33.079 --> 01:18:35.100
And and there's a lesson to be learned and Goldberg
1504
01:18:35.119 --> 01:18:38.220
was smart you know UFC um was in its I
1505
01:18:38.600 --> 01:18:40.369
don't know if infancy is quite the word but it
1506
01:18:40.409 --> 01:18:42.529
was it was new but it was established and he
1507
01:18:42.729 --> 01:18:45.029
he played off of that you know he carried himself
1508
01:18:45.710 --> 01:18:48.369
like a UFC fighter coming to the ring and people
1509
01:18:48.670 --> 01:18:52.000
I think, uh, the bellwether fans, the ones who, who,
1510
01:18:52.159 --> 01:18:54.699
who influenced the rest of the crowd reaction because they
1511
01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:58.159
feel passionately about somebody along with the mainstream casual fans too.
1512
01:18:58.199 --> 01:18:59.800
They just looked at this guy for the reasons you
1513
01:18:59.840 --> 01:19:01.840
said and said, this guy looks like a badass. He
1514
01:19:01.880 --> 01:19:03.880
reminds me of a legit MMA fighter and the way
1515
01:19:03.920 --> 01:19:08.930
he's beating people, um, kind of backed his image. And,
1516
01:19:09.380 --> 01:19:12.300
He is one of those once in a generation or
1517
01:19:12.359 --> 01:19:15.739
once every two or three generation wrestlers in that he
1518
01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:18.260
looked the part. You talked about JBL and made fun
1519
01:19:18.279 --> 01:19:21.779
of him earlier. He talks about if you were to
1520
01:19:21.800 --> 01:19:23.800
build a sports entertainer from the ground up, you would
1521
01:19:23.819 --> 01:19:24.640
build Randy Orton.
1522
01:19:25.060 --> 01:19:28.979
It's like, no, you'd build Bill Goldberg. Bill Goldberg looks
1523
01:19:29.010 --> 01:19:31.310
like the model wrestler.
1524
01:19:31.430 --> 01:19:34.770
And for a guy who was so green, so inexperienced–
1525
01:19:35.369 --> 01:19:38.529
on camera and behind the scenes, he deserves credit for,
1526
01:19:38.810 --> 01:19:40.630
and this sounds like a backhanded compliment and I don't
1527
01:19:40.670 --> 01:19:42.930
mean it to be, I'm just stating factually, the guy
1528
01:19:42.949 --> 01:19:45.109
had no business being a main eventer. He couldn't talk
1529
01:19:45.149 --> 01:19:48.109
and he couldn't wrestle, but he did so many other
1530
01:19:48.170 --> 01:19:50.630
things well and had some innate qualities too.
1531
01:19:50.670 --> 01:19:52.189
You can't, you can't teach.
1532
01:19:52.890 --> 01:19:55.369
Um, but he did so many things well in his
1533
01:19:55.449 --> 01:19:57.850
presentation and his persona and the way he carried himself
1534
01:19:57.890 --> 01:20:01.850
and protected that image that there's lessons today that wrestlers
1535
01:20:01.869 --> 01:20:05.479
can learn from what he did. What, Now, Goldberg did
1536
01:20:05.520 --> 01:20:08.949
not make WCW number one. He came in to a
1537
01:20:09.369 --> 01:20:12.390
promotion that was still pretty hot, but was basically around
1538
01:20:12.449 --> 01:20:14.750
for the demise. I mean, he basically came in as
1539
01:20:15.029 --> 01:20:18.329
the downward slope was going on. I don't think he
1540
01:20:18.369 --> 01:20:21.310
accelerated the downward slope, but he did create a dilemma
1541
01:20:21.329 --> 01:20:27.149
for WCW. He was a lead babyface that fans loved
1542
01:20:27.970 --> 01:20:32.979
who didn't have a lot that he could do once
1543
01:20:33.020 --> 01:20:35.560
they handed him a microphone in an era where Nitro
1544
01:20:35.579 --> 01:20:38.220
was three hours and Thunder was two, and you needed
1545
01:20:38.239 --> 01:20:42.119
to fill TV time, WCW couldn't hand him a microphone
1546
01:20:42.140 --> 01:20:44.119
and say fill seven minutes like they could with Hall
1547
01:20:44.159 --> 01:20:47.199
and Nash or to varying degrees with other guys or
1548
01:20:47.220 --> 01:20:50.060
Dallas Page. And he couldn't work main event style 15,
1549
01:20:50.039 --> 01:20:53.119
20-minute matches. Fans didn't want to see that. They want
1550
01:20:53.140 --> 01:20:54.939
to see him destroy people, but how many people can
1551
01:20:54.960 --> 01:20:57.720
he destroy? And you can keep drawing money. As you
1552
01:20:57.779 --> 01:21:00.560
watch the Goldberg phenomenon, do you remember your thoughts on
1553
01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:04.060
What they could do– did you feel they were in
1554
01:21:04.100 --> 01:21:06.310
trouble a little bit, that this guy got himself over,
1555
01:21:07.090 --> 01:21:09.630
but at some point you have to do more than
1556
01:21:09.670 --> 01:21:11.869
just squash people, but is he capable of doing that?
1557
01:21:13.289 --> 01:21:15.550
In a way, Goldberg was not part of the problem,
1558
01:21:15.609 --> 01:21:18.399
but in a way, boy, it would have been helpful
1559
01:21:18.439 --> 01:21:20.439
to have Steve Austin in that spot instead of Goldberg,
1560
01:21:20.460 --> 01:21:22.579
somebody who would really carry the company on his back
1561
01:21:23.020 --> 01:21:24.140
once he got that top spot.
1562
01:21:25.960 --> 01:21:28.390
You remember earlier, I was talking about Eric liked to
1563
01:21:28.399 --> 01:21:34.489
have that overarching– that kept everything bubbling underneath, like, you know,
1564
01:21:34.510 --> 01:21:37.439
the authority in the WWE over the last three or
1565
01:21:37.460 --> 01:21:39.539
four years and, you know, the people power with John
1566
01:21:39.579 --> 01:21:42.739
Laurinaitis and they had something like that that just, that
1567
01:21:43.020 --> 01:21:46.180
everything worked underneath. Well, Goldberg was just one guy and
1568
01:21:46.220 --> 01:21:49.670
Goldberg was not an overarching umbrella angle unto himself. He
1569
01:21:50.069 --> 01:21:53.510
was over like crazy, but he wasn't something that everything
1570
01:21:53.529 --> 01:21:56.569
could bubble underneath. And that was the hard part. We
1571
01:21:56.609 --> 01:22:00.380
survived the NWO fight. hitting its peak, plateauing, and then,
1572
01:22:00.640 --> 01:22:03.560
you know, making a precipitous drop. But we caught ourselves
1573
01:22:04.020 --> 01:22:07.470
with Goldberg, but we had nothing else. I mean, we had,
1574
01:22:07.590 --> 01:22:09.510
you know, we had Paige and we had Scotty and,
1575
01:22:09.529 --> 01:22:12.510
you know, all those people. But, you know, we just
1576
01:22:12.529 --> 01:22:14.729
didn't have anything that people like, oh, I've got to
1577
01:22:14.770 --> 01:22:18.800
watch WCW and see what happens with, not the NWO,
1578
01:22:18.840 --> 01:22:21.020
but whatever would have been after that. And we tried
1579
01:22:21.039 --> 01:22:23.479
it with this New Blood Millionaires Club thing. That was
1580
01:22:23.560 --> 01:22:28.310
also Eric's idea. Another overarching angle, which... It was a
1581
01:22:28.369 --> 01:22:32.069
decent idea, but it wasn't properly executed. But that was
1582
01:22:32.109 --> 01:22:36.819
Goldberg's problem. But that's what a lot of folks will
1583
01:22:36.840 --> 01:22:39.979
attribute to Goldberg, is that he couldn't keep WCW afloat
1584
01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:44.220
any longer than he did. And it wasn't his job to.
1585
01:22:44.380 --> 01:22:47.279
He was a guy. He was a piece of talent,
1586
01:22:47.359 --> 01:22:48.960
and he did everything that was asked, and he was
1587
01:22:49.020 --> 01:22:51.560
over like crazy. There was just not much around him
1588
01:22:52.689 --> 01:22:55.770
and not much underneath to support him being on top.
1589
01:23:03.850 --> 01:23:06.850
Are you a fan of AEW looking to sit back, relax,
1590
01:23:06.970 --> 01:23:09.890
and listen to some like-minded podcasters who share your passion?
1591
01:23:10.510 --> 01:23:12.310
Do you want to be talked off the ledge after
1592
01:23:12.350 --> 01:23:14.550
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
1593
01:23:14.590 --> 01:23:15.109
they thinking?
1594
01:23:15.729 --> 01:23:18.170
Do you want to join a discussion on what AEW
1595
01:23:18.250 --> 01:23:20.670
is doing right and what they could do to improve?
1596
01:23:21.069 --> 01:23:22.130
Then join me, Joel.
1597
01:23:22.470 --> 01:23:25.210
And me, Greg, for the All Elite Conversation Club every
1598
01:23:25.260 --> 01:23:29.500
Friday on the PWTorch Livecast feed. Search PW torch in
1599
01:23:29.539 --> 01:23:32.699
your podcast app and subscribe to PW torch daily cast
1600
01:23:33.060 --> 01:23:36.500
or stream our shows directly from PW torch.com. Find full
1601
01:23:36.539 --> 01:23:39.800
details on the PW torch daily cast lineup at PW
1602
01:23:39.840 --> 01:23:41.560
torch daily cast.com.
1603
01:23:50.550 --> 01:23:53.550
So now Goldberg is back, ready to take on Brock
1604
01:23:53.590 --> 01:23:56.369
Lesnar in a rematch of one of the biggest debacles
1605
01:23:56.430 --> 01:23:59.430
in WrestleMania history. But both guys are in a different place.
1606
01:23:59.810 --> 01:24:03.550
You know, Goldberg is looked at fondly for, you know,
1607
01:24:03.689 --> 01:24:06.399
it's like friendship. Sometimes you have a friendship, things go wrong,
1608
01:24:06.399 --> 01:24:08.760
10 years go by, and you just think about all
1609
01:24:08.779 --> 01:24:11.000
the good times and why you bonded with this person, not,
1610
01:24:11.079 --> 01:24:12.600
you know, what kind of fell apart or what drove
1611
01:24:12.619 --> 01:24:14.960
you apart. Big deal or little deal. That stuff gets
1612
01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:17.380
glazed over, and that's nice. And I think that's how
1613
01:24:17.399 --> 01:24:20.430
people feel about Goldberg now. They don't associate him as
1614
01:24:20.470 --> 01:24:25.029
the injury-riddled guy who couldn't cut a great promo and
1615
01:24:25.069 --> 01:24:27.920
was part of this promotion that just makes people you know,
1616
01:24:28.300 --> 01:24:31.220
just nauseous. They see, they remember the good times. And
1617
01:24:31.239 --> 01:24:34.359
there were some amazing times with him that people remember
1618
01:24:34.380 --> 01:24:36.720
from their college years or their teen years or whatever
1619
01:24:36.939 --> 01:24:39.779
era of, or whatever kind of chapter of their fandom
1620
01:24:40.020 --> 01:24:42.920
that he was part of. He is symbolic and representative
1621
01:24:43.000 --> 01:24:46.180
of the last vestige of this boom period. The last
1622
01:24:46.199 --> 01:24:49.520
guy that WWE in the modern era has not cashed
1623
01:24:49.590 --> 01:24:53.350
in on and produced a dream match for. And, you know,
1624
01:24:53.369 --> 01:24:57.449
being the face of the video game, being a guy
1625
01:24:57.489 --> 01:25:02.350
who has not for more than a decade been exposed
1626
01:25:02.390 --> 01:25:04.909
or overexposed, it is sort of like the last chance
1627
01:25:04.970 --> 01:25:08.630
now at age 49 going on 50 to take advantage
1628
01:25:08.689 --> 01:25:11.029
of Monday Night War nostalgia with a top star who
1629
01:25:11.050 --> 01:25:13.649
hasn't been tainted or used up. I think people are
1630
01:25:13.689 --> 01:25:16.970
excited about it, but I don't have a real gauge
1631
01:25:17.029 --> 01:25:18.649
on the difference he'll make Monday on Raw when he
1632
01:25:18.680 --> 01:25:19.560
shows up in the ratings.
1633
01:25:20.310 --> 01:25:21.779
I do. He'll make none.
1634
01:25:27.609 --> 01:25:32.079
That's just the sad truth. You think about it, Wade,
1635
01:25:32.239 --> 01:25:35.140
when the wars were going on, there were weeks, and
1636
01:25:35.180 --> 01:25:37.500
it wasn't every week, maybe two or three weeks during
1637
01:25:37.520 --> 01:25:40.680
the wars, where there were 10 million people watching wrestling
1638
01:25:40.699 --> 01:25:43.500
on a Monday night. And for the most part, it
1639
01:25:43.539 --> 01:25:46.100
was like six and a half watching WWF and three
1640
01:25:46.119 --> 01:25:49.079
and a half watching us. And those numbers would come
1641
01:25:49.119 --> 01:25:53.020
back down to earth the next week. But usually, 8
1642
01:25:53.020 --> 01:25:57.600
million people watching wrestling. And when we went under, when
1643
01:25:57.619 --> 01:26:01.260
they killed us and we lost, I mean, those people
1644
01:26:01.279 --> 01:26:05.979
didn't die. They should still be doing 8 million viewers
1645
01:26:06.619 --> 01:26:10.010
or something close to that a week on Raw. Now, granted,
1646
01:26:10.050 --> 01:26:12.939
I know that there's more platforms to watch, and you
1647
01:26:12.979 --> 01:26:16.109
can watch it on DVR and Hulu and Roku and
1648
01:26:16.130 --> 01:26:20.890
all that. But they shouldn't be doing the cratering numbers
1649
01:26:20.930 --> 01:26:23.609
they're doing now. And the reason why is people just
1650
01:26:23.630 --> 01:26:27.020
don't care. And unfortunately, I don't think there are enough
1651
01:26:27.060 --> 01:26:30.180
people out there that are going to say, oh, Goldberg's back.
1652
01:26:30.279 --> 01:26:33.399
I remember when WCW was around, and that was really
1653
01:26:33.439 --> 01:26:36.550
not as bad as people said. Let's watch Goldberg again.
1654
01:26:36.569 --> 01:26:39.529
I don't think those people are there. I mean, if
1655
01:26:39.569 --> 01:26:44.430
they see a spike of 150,000 viewers, eh, maybe. But
1656
01:26:44.489 --> 01:26:46.210
as far as something that's going to pop a huge,
1657
01:26:46.270 --> 01:26:47.989
huge number, I don't see that at all.
1658
01:26:49.010 --> 01:26:49.949
No offense to Goldberg.
1659
01:26:50.409 --> 01:26:54.430
It's just the business. And it's been 15-plus years ago,
1660
01:26:54.770 --> 01:26:58.609
almost 16 years ago since Goldberg was on WCW, and
1661
01:26:58.630 --> 01:27:04.029
then that just aborted run against Brock in whatever it was, 03, 04,
1662
01:27:04.029 --> 01:27:07.000
which was terrible. They left a bad taste in everyone's
1663
01:27:07.039 --> 01:27:07.680
mouth after that.
1664
01:27:08.260 --> 01:27:10.340
Yeah, I just– I wonder if enough time has gone
1665
01:27:10.399 --> 01:27:13.439
by that people are not– I'm curious how much WWE
1666
01:27:13.460 --> 01:27:16.319
draws attention to that match and if they in any
1667
01:27:16.359 --> 01:27:20.189
way acknowledge the crowd reaction. I– I'm assuming Goldberg gets,
1668
01:27:20.510 --> 01:27:23.510
no matter how much of a ratings pop he generates
1669
01:27:23.550 --> 01:27:26.489
or doesn't, that there'll be a big pop for the music,
1670
01:27:26.930 --> 01:27:29.489
the entrance. I mean, there's going to be a nostalgia
1671
01:27:29.510 --> 01:27:33.180
pop for him when he comes out to wrestle Brock,
1672
01:27:33.199 --> 01:27:36.460
whether it's Survivor Series or at a later time. That's
1673
01:27:36.479 --> 01:27:37.760
going to be there. I don't know if there's much
1674
01:27:38.020 --> 01:27:39.819
after that. You know, it's sort of like, okay, now
1675
01:27:39.859 --> 01:27:41.180
I see what it looks like now. He looks about
1676
01:27:41.220 --> 01:27:43.699
the same. That's cool. He has his match with Lesnar.
1677
01:27:44.020 --> 01:27:46.560
Maybe they do, you know, maybe Goldberg comes back for
1678
01:27:46.600 --> 01:27:49.569
one or two matches to you know, get a decisive win.
1679
01:27:49.710 --> 01:27:52.729
I'm assuming he loses to Brock since he beat Brock,
1680
01:27:54.010 --> 01:27:57.449
you know, at the WrestleMania. So I, it, the whole
1681
01:27:57.489 --> 01:28:01.130
thing is interesting, but it is, it does feel to
1682
01:28:01.189 --> 01:28:04.600
me like maybe the last chapter of the Monday Night
1683
01:28:04.739 --> 01:28:08.560
War nostalgia era that WWE has been riding because they've
1684
01:28:08.579 --> 01:28:11.960
done Sting. They're not, there's nothing really to do with Lex.
1685
01:28:12.039 --> 01:28:16.380
They've already done Holland Nash. Hogan is, is too old and,
1686
01:28:16.539 --> 01:28:20.029
and pretty tainted to, with the whole anti-black comments he
1687
01:28:20.050 --> 01:28:22.369
made last year that got him kind of knocked out
1688
01:28:22.409 --> 01:28:27.939
of mainstream society. To me, it does feel a little
1689
01:28:27.960 --> 01:28:31.619
bit like closure. 15 years after the sale, it feels
1690
01:28:31.659 --> 01:28:34.100
like closure. This Goldberg thing is kind of the end
1691
01:28:34.760 --> 01:28:36.869
of anything other than autograph shows and Hall of Fame
1692
01:28:36.909 --> 01:28:37.949
ceremonies for that era.
1693
01:28:40.970 --> 01:28:43.890
I don't disagree at all. The only person out there
1694
01:28:43.930 --> 01:28:46.989
that still at least has the look to do something
1695
01:28:47.029 --> 01:28:51.010
is Steiner, is Scott Steiner. But they did it. They
1696
01:28:51.289 --> 01:28:54.630
did it with Scott. But at least he's still out
1697
01:28:54.649 --> 01:28:57.899
there and still in the shape. He looks pretty much
1698
01:28:57.960 --> 01:29:02.890
the same. But other than him, there's nobody. And then
1699
01:29:02.909 --> 01:29:05.670
you're right, this is it. But again, it's been 16 years.
1700
01:29:05.930 --> 01:29:07.329
I mean, there's not going to be as much as
1701
01:29:07.369 --> 01:29:09.510
I love the guy. Nobody's going to pop for Elick
1702
01:29:09.529 --> 01:29:13.310
Skipper coming out. And the thing is, he would have
1703
01:29:13.329 --> 01:29:17.689
like a 20 times better match than Brock and Goldberg
1704
01:29:17.720 --> 01:29:20.199
are going to have. But the people that we had
1705
01:29:20.260 --> 01:29:24.039
back then, this is it. This is the last hurrah.
1706
01:29:24.060 --> 01:29:26.069
You're exactly right. You know, Paige isn't going to do it.
1707
01:29:26.100 --> 01:29:31.029
Paige has been... abused up there once. Vince's whole, and
1708
01:29:31.050 --> 01:29:33.029
this is an opinion, not something I'm stating as fact,
1709
01:29:33.050 --> 01:29:38.310
but my opinion, Vince's whole idea was bury WCW. Bury them.
1710
01:29:38.869 --> 01:29:42.310
Every time there's been, except for Ray Jr. and Booker,
1711
01:29:42.770 --> 01:29:45.220
pretty much, and who just got over just because of
1712
01:29:45.260 --> 01:29:49.420
their own strong will and they're really good, everybody else
1713
01:29:49.479 --> 01:29:51.760
has been buried. Those guys got over in spite of
1714
01:29:51.840 --> 01:29:54.840
trying to be buried. I think that when they do
1715
01:29:54.880 --> 01:29:57.840
Brock and Goldberg, that Brock goes over. I think it's
1716
01:29:57.920 --> 01:30:02.220
a slam dunk because he's a WCW guy. He's going
1717
01:30:02.239 --> 01:30:03.619
to get buried, just like they did with Sting.
1718
01:30:04.979 --> 01:30:05.850
That's the thing.
1719
01:30:05.890 --> 01:30:12.649
I mean, the WCW, the short-lived, ill-fated invasion, it just
1720
01:30:12.710 --> 01:30:14.489
wasn't– well, we could do another hour on this, and
1721
01:30:14.550 --> 01:30:18.130
we'll wrap up on this note. It was doomed to
1722
01:30:18.149 --> 01:30:22.470
fail because what WCW– what people wanted WCW's invasion to
1723
01:30:22.510 --> 01:30:29.289
be is a healthy, spry– In their prime, NWO, Sting,
1724
01:30:30.010 --> 01:30:36.399
Hulk Hogan, Lex Luger, Cruiserweights, Goldberg. They wanted a WCW
1725
01:30:36.460 --> 01:30:39.659
that did not exist anymore. It hadn't existed, frankly, for
1726
01:30:39.699 --> 01:30:44.279
a few years. And the big contracts, WWE didn't want
1727
01:30:44.300 --> 01:30:45.739
any part of those big contracts because they would be
1728
01:30:46.350 --> 01:30:49.149
having to not only buy out wrestlers who were paid
1729
01:30:49.210 --> 01:30:52.310
more than most of their own guys, but then pay
1730
01:30:52.329 --> 01:30:54.939
them even more on top of it. to actually wrestle
1731
01:30:54.960 --> 01:30:57.340
house shows because WWE didn't want to put people on
1732
01:30:57.380 --> 01:31:00.500
TV and treat them as equals to their own top
1733
01:31:00.539 --> 01:31:03.359
stars and then not have them.
1734
01:31:03.340 --> 01:31:04.239
Have to work house shows.
1735
01:31:04.279 --> 01:31:07.659
That would completely blow up the internal structure and morale
1736
01:31:07.680 --> 01:31:10.659
of the company, and that counts for something. Promoters have
1737
01:31:10.680 --> 01:31:13.020
learned you don't want a bunch of wrestlers who resent
1738
01:31:13.460 --> 01:31:15.520
management and what they're being asked to do because they
1739
01:31:15.539 --> 01:31:18.000
have to go travel on weekends to earn their pay. Well,
1740
01:31:18.020 --> 01:31:21.699
the WCW Guaranteed guys were brought in, paid cash to
1741
01:31:21.739 --> 01:31:23.689
buy out their contracts, And now they don't have to
1742
01:31:23.710 --> 01:31:26.390
wear cow shows. So it would have been prohibitively expensive
1743
01:31:26.449 --> 01:31:29.590
to avoid that situation. And frankly, the guys who they
1744
01:31:29.649 --> 01:31:31.729
even would have had the temptation to do that with
1745
01:31:32.149 --> 01:31:35.829
were past their prime and not in ring shape. And
1746
01:31:36.050 --> 01:31:38.310
as Vince soon found out, the next layer of talent,
1747
01:31:38.729 --> 01:31:42.590
Buff and Booker T, just weren't.
1748
01:31:41.649 --> 01:31:42.109
At that level.
1749
01:31:42.130 --> 01:31:44.390
So when people talk about the invasion angle being botched,
1750
01:31:45.369 --> 01:31:47.260
I look at it differently. I just think it was
1751
01:31:47.529 --> 01:31:51.039
much more difficult at that moment to pull off. Almost
1752
01:31:51.100 --> 01:31:53.569
impossible at that moment. to live up to people's expectations.
1753
01:31:53.810 --> 01:31:55.670
WWE didn't do a good job with it, but I
1754
01:31:55.710 --> 01:31:58.130
actually think in a way they did the right thing
1755
01:31:58.170 --> 01:32:01.569
by not just breaking the bank to buy out contracts
1756
01:32:01.609 --> 01:32:05.220
of sting and flair and Goldberg, and then have that,
1757
01:32:05.260 --> 01:32:06.760
you know, have to then on top of that, pay
1758
01:32:06.800 --> 01:32:09.020
them to what start working house shows at their age
1759
01:32:09.039 --> 01:32:09.739
at that point in their career.
1760
01:32:10.060 --> 01:32:10.819
I just don't think it was a.
1761
01:32:10.800 --> 01:32:13.579
Real viable option. How, but that's my view. What's your
1762
01:32:13.619 --> 01:32:15.319
view on the invasion angle and what will end on
1763
01:32:15.359 --> 01:32:18.460
that note? Um, your thoughts on, on was that the
1764
01:32:18.500 --> 01:32:21.439
biggest blown opportunity in history or, Or was it a
1765
01:32:21.470 --> 01:32:23.750
little too late to have what would have been a
1766
01:32:23.770 --> 01:32:25.489
dream scenario, say, three, four years earlier?
1767
01:32:27.489 --> 01:32:30.470
I think that it was– I don't disagree with your
1768
01:32:30.489 --> 01:32:33.130
analysis at all. I think that it was a missed
1769
01:32:33.189 --> 01:32:37.630
opportunity in that there was something there that could have
1770
01:32:37.649 --> 01:32:42.229
been done. There was enough mid- to upper-mid-level talent without
1771
01:32:42.289 --> 01:32:46.050
bringing in Flair and Luger and Hall and Nash and
1772
01:32:46.069 --> 01:32:48.930
those guys who were sitting at home and making– you know,
1773
01:32:48.970 --> 01:32:51.130
three-quarters of a million dollars just for sitting at home
1774
01:32:51.149 --> 01:32:53.630
for the next six months. And, you know, you've got
1775
01:32:53.649 --> 01:32:55.770
to strike while the iron's hot. But there was enough
1776
01:32:55.850 --> 01:32:59.439
there that they could have done something. They could have
1777
01:32:59.479 --> 01:33:02.539
brought in like the AWO and sort of what they
1778
01:33:02.619 --> 01:33:06.359
tried to do with the alliance with ECW and WCW
1779
01:33:06.399 --> 01:33:09.060
with Shane and Steph back when they tried that. It
1780
01:33:09.199 --> 01:33:12.210
could have worked with the talent that they had, but
1781
01:33:12.250 --> 01:33:19.970
they were so hard– They wanted so bad to bury WCW.
1782
01:33:20.109 --> 01:33:23.289
That was their goal. And we were told, you're not
1783
01:33:23.310 --> 01:33:25.960
going to get over. Nothing's going to happen. You're not
1784
01:33:25.979 --> 01:33:28.840
going to be put in a position to be renowned.
1785
01:33:28.859 --> 01:33:31.439
You're not going to get any kind of promotion. And
1786
01:33:31.460 --> 01:33:34.739
they told us that. And we knew that if any
1787
01:33:34.840 --> 01:33:37.850
of us went up there, you're not going to get pushed.
1788
01:33:38.010 --> 01:33:39.930
This whole thing is to kill the company. And we
1789
01:33:39.970 --> 01:33:42.430
knew going in, that's what was going to happen again.
1790
01:33:43.279 --> 01:33:45.779
Booker and Ray Jr. got over in spite of themselves.
1791
01:33:46.060 --> 01:33:48.739
But you look at people like Chronic and Page and
1792
01:33:49.359 --> 01:33:53.960
Scott Steiner and Goldberg, and they were put in untenable positions.
1793
01:33:54.319 --> 01:33:57.300
And they were just not going to get over because
1794
01:33:57.880 --> 01:34:01.640
they just weren't going to get over because they were booked.
1795
01:34:02.079 --> 01:34:05.779
And that's sad, but there was never any danger of
1796
01:34:05.850 --> 01:34:10.350
that angle working because of the preconceived notion that WCW
1797
01:34:10.409 --> 01:34:12.569
has to be seen as the loser.
1798
01:34:14.430 --> 01:34:15.949
And that's, that's where we were.
1799
01:34:16.270 --> 01:34:17.409
No doubt about it. Yeah.
1800
01:34:17.750 --> 01:34:19.430
And that's what I were. I shouldn't say worry, but
1801
01:34:19.449 --> 01:34:22.289
that's what I think is history.
1802
01:34:22.569 --> 01:34:24.850
History is an indicator of the future. And I think
1803
01:34:24.869 --> 01:34:27.899
Vince McMahon is going to look at Brock Lesnar as
1804
01:34:27.939 --> 01:34:32.079
his creation and Goldberg as a WCW creation that he
1805
01:34:32.100 --> 01:34:34.840
doesn't quite understand or respect or get because he didn't
1806
01:34:34.880 --> 01:34:36.600
watch it happen. You know, I mean, he didn't see
1807
01:34:36.640 --> 01:34:39.579
it in real time and doesn't appreciate, you know, what
1808
01:34:39.619 --> 01:34:42.279
Goldberg brought to the table. I, I'm curious to see
1809
01:34:42.539 --> 01:34:45.220
if other people in that circle are able to take
1810
01:34:45.260 --> 01:34:47.260
advantage of what Goldberg can offer or if it's going
1811
01:34:47.279 --> 01:34:49.930
to be what the invasion angle and what the influx
1812
01:34:49.939 --> 01:34:52.909
of WCW talent was after the buyout. If it's let's
1813
01:34:52.949 --> 01:34:55.949
pick apart the flaws and dwell on them instead of
1814
01:34:56.010 --> 01:34:58.109
make the best of the assets that brought them here.
1815
01:34:58.050 --> 01:34:58.649
In the first place.
1816
01:35:00.909 --> 01:35:04.029
It's going to be quite the journey to watch this
1817
01:35:04.109 --> 01:35:05.840
revival of Goldberg, however long it lasts.
1818
01:35:07.460 --> 01:35:10.739
Yeah. Probably over by Thanksgiving is my guess.
1819
01:35:10.859 --> 01:35:12.979
Yeah, I think so too. Scott, it's been a great
1820
01:35:13.000 --> 01:35:15.619
pleasure catching up with you. It's been too long, and
1821
01:35:15.979 --> 01:35:20.170
this 90 minutes almost now here flew by. Well, the
1822
01:35:20.310 --> 01:35:23.390
WCW memories, we can talk for hours about it. There
1823
01:35:23.430 --> 01:35:25.789
were so many good things and some bad things at
1824
01:35:25.810 --> 01:35:27.229
the end that sometimes taint the good things.
1825
01:35:27.270 --> 01:35:28.670
But the fact that.
1826
01:35:28.590 --> 01:35:31.029
You got to be there for it and experience it
1827
01:35:31.109 --> 01:35:33.319
and now share some of those stories and points of
1828
01:35:33.359 --> 01:35:35.220
view and memories today, I really appreciate it.
1829
01:35:36.899 --> 01:35:38.560
Well, it was my pleasure, Wade. And anytime I get
1830
01:35:38.600 --> 01:35:40.979
to talk to you, I consider it an honor. Anything
1831
01:35:41.020 --> 01:35:44.310
I know about this business, I owe to you and
1832
01:35:44.529 --> 01:35:47.390
Dave for what I learned just reading the newsletters back
1833
01:35:47.430 --> 01:35:49.970
in the 80s. And I'm eternally grateful for you helping
1834
01:35:49.989 --> 01:35:53.670
me learn this great sport from a mailbox in South Georgia.
1835
01:35:53.710 --> 01:35:54.069
Thank you.
1836
01:35:54.550 --> 01:35:55.750
Thanks, Scott. We'll have to do this again.
1837
01:35:57.550 --> 01:35:57.949
Anytime.
1838
01:35:58.189 --> 01:35:58.930
Thanks. Take care.
1839
01:35:59.250 --> 01:36:05.069
That's Scott Hudson, WCW wrestling announcer with some TNA and WWE.
1840
01:36:05.689 --> 01:36:08.619
experience too, but certainly best known for his work in WCW.
1841
01:36:08.659 --> 01:36:10.619
Glad to have Scott on the program. I'll wrap up
1842
01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:13.680
with a thank you to our callers and our listeners. Tomorrow,
1843
01:36:13.720 --> 01:36:16.680
Bruce and Travis in primetime Friday at 7 Eastern, and
1844
01:36:16.720 --> 01:36:17.960
then Saturday morning wrestling at 1130 a.m.
1845
01:36:18.039 --> 01:36:22.539
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01:36:22.579 --> 01:36:23.060
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01:36:23.319 --> 01:36:53.630
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01:37:44.710 --> 01:37:49.069
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1864
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high-quality PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage. Admit it, you love Nick
1872
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Barbatti when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller
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Post Shows. Well, now you can listen to him every
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week on the Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast.
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Here's Nick to tell you more.
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Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
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life every week, so.
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Why not let him? GoVIP.
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PWTorch.com slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're
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compatible with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any
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other iOS or Android app out there. You can also
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stream directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club,
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waiting for you every week at PWTorch VIP.
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Did you know that you.
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Can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your favorite Wade
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01:39:12.210 --> 01:39:17.020
Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts? Just go to patreon.com,
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search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier. You
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get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to kick
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the tires a bit and see if you like the service.
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And then sync it with Spotify, and you can listen
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to commercial-free versions of our free shows like the Wade
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Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship, our flashbacks,
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and also the PWTorch Daily Cast lineup online. Again, all commercial-free,
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a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you
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can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with
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Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that I
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host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's
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post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with
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different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. Go
1900
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to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync it
1901
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up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either
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way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial.
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If you're listening to us on the Apple Podcast app,
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on Spotify, or any other app that allows you to
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rate our podcast, please take a moment to give us
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a five-star rating. It really helps us in the algorithm
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and helps them know that you recommend us to others.
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Just look for a place to rate the show on Spotify,
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on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to our shows,
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and please click that five-star rating. And of course, thank
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you so much for listening. A PWTorch VIP membership doesn't
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just give you ad-free access to these shows and a
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ton of other VIP-exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you
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also gain access to our unmatched, vast library of wrestling history,
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our contemporaneous week-to-week coverage through our Pro Wrestling Torch weekly
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newsletters dating back to the late 1980s, along with streaming
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and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from
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01:40:50.340 --> 01:40:53.770
the 1990s, including some of my interviews with wrestling's top
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newsmakers in the 90s, and also.
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01:40:55.729 --> 01:40:58.789
Our podcast library dating back to the year 2003. There's
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no larger.
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longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with
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a PWTorch VIP membership. Now approaching 20 years of podcasting.
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Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage
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of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top-name long-form interviews,
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and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. PWTorch.com
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slash go VIP. We have a streamlined sign-up form, and
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you can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit
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card or debit card. In one or two minutes from
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right now, you can be a VIP member and diving
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into our library, pwtorch.com slash govip.