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Hello and welcome to Trauma Informed Conversations, the podcast about trauma, healing, and hope.
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Well, hello everyone.
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I'm here today with the wonderful Neil, having been quite inspired by a recent uh LinkedIn post that I saw on the um active Surrey page.
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Neil, welcome.
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Hi Jessica, thank you so much for having us, and hello to all our listeners.
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It's great to be here with you today.
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Fantastic.
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So I came across this yeah, not so little project that you've been working on, Neil, of Rise Up.
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But before we kind of get into Rise Up, I don't know whether you want to tell our lovely listeners a little bit more about yourself and the work that you do.
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Yeah, so um, hello everyone.
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My name's Neil Moggan.
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I taught PE for 19 years.
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Um, my ambition was to become a director of sport, um, and I got that chance at an inner city secondary school in Norwich.
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And around 2015, I um found out that there was a 13-year life expectancy difference depending on what side the main road children were born on outside our school.
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And at first I got really angry.
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How is that fair?
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And one of the 10th richest economies in the world, um, but then it really fueled our work around how do we transform children's life chances and try and bridge that gap.
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Um, so we started off looking at reducing health inequalities through um uh early intervention obesity programs, and then we got into early intervention mental well-being programs because I had three year year seven girls come to my dance lesson late, struggling with anxiety, struggling with confidence, struggling with connection, and I felt really hopeless and helpless.
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I had no strategies on how to help them and cope with them.
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So we started to do some work in that space and we got some awards for that work.
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Um, then we started looking at financial literacy to try and give children resources to create um kind of better outcomes for their family because uh I was looking at Swarbrick's eight dimensions of well-being at the time and looking at what influences kind of um life life life outcomes.
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Yeah, and then my amazing supportive head teacher left the school.
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He went to a different different school, trust changed, um, and we went to a real behaviorist approach post-lockdown.
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And I had my three best members of staff off on long-term maternity and paternity leave, which was fantastic.
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Yeah, but we know how hard it is to maintain high standards, and for the first time in my teaching career, I was really struggling with relationships and behaviour, even though I never cared more about these children and their families.
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Um, however good our well-being programs were, they just weren't working, and that's where I found trauma-informed practice.
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So I did the TISUK level five practitioner diploma, and pretty much within two weeks it transformed our behaviour outcomes.
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We reduced send outs by 95% in one term um through creating real positive meeting, greet, psychological safety, really making children feel welcome.
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Um, and uh our attendance went up by five percent for our for our our most highest knee children.
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Their predicted grades went up two point two and a half grades in a term.
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Wow, wow, this is this is amazing.
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But as a whole school, yeah, as a whole school, we were still re-traumatising children on a daily basis with our kind of behaviour management policy policies, which were were quite frankly inadequate.
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And so I left my school December 2022.
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And um, since then we've worked with about 300 schools across the world um helping them create their own bespoke programs based around their own context because nothing used to annoy me more than people coming into my school telling me how to teach my children.
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Oh they wouldn't last 10 minutes in my school.
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Um, and uh, and so we don't patronise teachers, we very much work in partnership um around outstanding relationships, movement for regulation and belonging, play wrapped in care for those children struggling with rage, grief, and shame, teacher agency and child agency, and then building those self-care toolkits to build children's emotional intelligence once they've uh once they're feeling safe and supported and able to kind of access their prefrontal cortex.
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So kind of that's the work we do.
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We're really proud of what we do, and we're we're really privileged to do what we do, and we work with amazing educators around the world to help them kind of empower, empower their own children and support their own children.
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Wow, I'm just staggered.
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I mean, 13-year age difference from one side of the road to another.
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I mean, I think you know that really stood out for me, and I I kind of equally, as you said it, I also put up that anger that I think reminds us about why we work in the space that we work in, Neil, really, doesn't it?
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100%.
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Like when I first found out I was so frustrated because you've worked in schools, you know how children get under our skin and like you worry about them at night, you care deeply, you think you try and tweak and change what you're delivering to get the best out of them.
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And I had a a real cool group of girls kind of post-lockdown that I was really, really worried about, and this was what this program was designed for initially.
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But because of the way teachers put their own kind of spin on it, we've been able to take it down to key stage one in primary schools, to special schools, to APs, like it's been incredible.
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And that that's not down to me, that's down to the the brilliant educators that we work with across across the country and across the world.
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All right, you know what?
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It's incredible to really just think about, you know, sometimes, you know, that just a chance encounter of you kind of, you know, maybe just seeing that stat, you know, perhaps almost reflecting, you know, where would we be now almost without the pandemic in that kind of way, because it really did, you know, I think help to sort of open up so many more opportunities and almost give us that, you know, extra motivation that probably you know needed to kind of um shake things up a little bit in education and as you say, kind of move away from that behaviorist um approach that many of our schools, mine included, um, were very much kind of relying on at that point.
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Yeah, definitely.
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I think it was a real silver lining of of of lockdown was that awareness around um around the decline of children's mental health.
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Now, um, I used to be ahead of year back in 2000 and and and uh six, seven, and we used to have about 160 children in my year group, and historically we'd have three children that were struggling with mental health, and they all were girls at the time.
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Um, and fast forward post-lockdown, all of a sudden we got 30 children, and it was like six to nine children were struggling with their mental health kind of by 2022, and there's been a huge decline in children's mental health that um unfortunately I've had a front row seat to, and that fuels kind of a lot of the passion for the work that we do.
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Yeah, it really, really does.
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Now, the thing that unites us, Neil, is our passion for trauma reform practice.
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I'm not going to lie, okay, the last time that I did probably much around sport myself was probably in about year 11.
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So, can you teach me a little bit, please, about movement, about sport, about you know, again, like rise up, you know, in terms of that vehicle for kind of getting people out, getting them moving, almost kind of supporting belonging and relationships and nurturing through sport.
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How does that work?
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Yeah, so um I created this recover framework, which was a seven-step model to teach colleagues within my department, kind of around the ACES study, the evidence base behind it, and then the eight protective factors around emotionally available adults.
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And then kind of the next kind of phase of that, the steps three, four, and five is around right, how do we be intentional about creating psychological safety?
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Those positive meets and greets, the cues of safety for our face-voice body, our power of relationships, knowing our children, knowing their stories and what they need.
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So that's kind of step three, and then step four is about that movement for regulation and belonging, and that's where RISE comes into it.
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So RISE is an acronym standing for repeaters, inclusive teams, dressbusters, and energizers.
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Repeaters are repeatable activities like running, walking, swimming, deep breathing in yoga has the same impact.
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And what we're trying to do is create this own two-style deep breathing that calms the amygdala, widens the window of tolerance, and accesses a prefrontal cortex.
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And B teachers use that they use these types of activities all the time in their P lessons, and it's just about being really intentional about it, um, so that we're not just doing it for kind of health benefits, it's around right, let's use it for regulation and belonging.
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Um, so that's the R.
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The I is around inclusive teams, and that's around this feeling of connection, this feeling of love, um, connection with others away from a screen.
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Um, and that can be traditional team games or non-traditional team games.
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So it can be your footballs, your netballs, your cricket, your rugby, or it can be like outdoor adventure activities, it can be stuff like we've had real success with children with autism teaching their favourite computer games physically to their classmates.
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So um it can be it can be so much, and it can go wider than PE, it can be school shows, your dance productions, yeah, uh Warhammer Club, your chess club, your mindful journaling club.
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It like we obviously we're we're we're looking at for a PE lens, but it can go so much wider, and that's developing that sense of belonging in our schools.
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Then we have stress busters.
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Stress busters are very much like repeaters in terms of that deep heavy work when we're exerting a force against a resistance in a controlled, predictable way, wrapped in care, again, calming the amygdala, one the window of tolerance and accessing the prefrontal cortex.
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So that's stuff like punching a punch bag, wrapped in care.
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That's stuff like weight training, it's press-ups, it's pushing against the floor in yoga for our our introverts.
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There's so many different ways schools can do that, and this is very much about bringing our high-energy children.
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Sometimes uh very much in my classes, my sporty boys bring them down into their window tolerance, and then energizers is about bringing our children up into their window of tolerance.
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So, this is my this was in my classes.
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Traditionally, my my my girls struggling with low mood, how do I bring them up?
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And that was very much through dance, it was aerobic activities that stimulated that that kind of uh dopamine and serotonin to to bring them up into their window tolerance.
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So it's stuff like skipping, stuff like circuit training, that kind of stuff, but always with child agency involved and always wrapped in care.
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All of these activities are wrapped in care with the relationships that are kind of fundamental to it.
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So um we help we help schools kind of use those different activities in different ways.
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It can be in PE, it can be as an intervention, it can be as a rise up sports sanctuary, it can be as movement breaks, it can be as active form times, it can be um kind of interform competitions.
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There's so many different ways that schools can weave that into their school day depending on their context, because every school is so different and every school needs that support.
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I love that.
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So I was wrong, it's not just PE, is it?
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It's literally any subject where you can incorporate movement.
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We could use this staff, you know, this whole set of strategies.
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100%.
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Yeah, it that's like um, I think that case study that you saw around Ravenscott Jr., they were very much using it as kind of movement breaks within lessons.
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So we we worked with all their staff around empowering them at in that that approach, but they also had a core group of 24 children that um kind of ADHD children that kind of needed that little bit extra and were taught different regulation strategies wrapped in care again.
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Gary did a brilliant job supporting them, um, fantastic leadership from Amy Wells, and then kind of then children had that chance to kind of show their ticket, go off and do uh that that extra movement when they when they were feeling heightened and needed those opportunities to regulate.
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Um, and they've created a fantastic school culture around that and kind of reap the rewards from it.
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That's really interesting, really, really interesting.
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So I guess what I'm hearing is you know, we are supporting with regulation, aren't we?
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We are, you know, guiding young people to be able to initially co-regulate with us as the adults leading the programs, but then equally, you know, almost having these skills for life as well, so that they can think back to, you know, actually everything that you taught them and you know, kind of really understanding where they might be, you know, on the window of tolerance and which direction they want to be moving in.
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100%.
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Yeah, but that that feeling of psychological safety and co-regulation is so, so key.
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And then once we've got them in their prefrontal cortex starting to develop their emotional intelligence around right, what strategies do I need to help me regulate?
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And I've done a lot of work on myself, and I know that when I'm dysregulated, I need to get in the garage and do my weight training and go for a run and a walk so I don't take out on my two young children, my wife.
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And I think the more we can help our children understand what they need, then the better it can be, and also what teachers understand and what their young people need.
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So we work what one of my proudest case studies is is a school called Buell Park Specialist Academy.
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It's a boys SMH residential school in Great Yarmouth.
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And um, Anita Fidesz Capeda has done a brilliant job.
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Initially, she started with these year five boys in their first year together.
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They had 50 physical holds, 50 physical interventions.
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She's done some amazing work around when they're in their prefrontal cortex, identifying what free strategies they need the most in terms of movement, and it was combined with a thrive approach as well.
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So they had kind of uh some some running machines, uh rowing machines at the back of the class, they had a little bit of weights.
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They also had a thrive room with a trampette, and children had those these free strategies, and then they'd show their card, or the teacher would say, Maybe you need to go off with your TA and do some movement.
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And um, in year six, their physical holds were 38, and year seven went down to 10.
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And um, just when you think about the shame of being physically restrained in front of your classmates to take it from 50 to 10 was just awesome, and Anita's done amazing work there, and then there was we I went in to to do some work, kind of creating that capturing that that evidence, and there was a year eight boy there who kind of four months before had been in the back of the police car in handcuffs restrained from from self-harm.
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Um, and then just four months later, he's talking about when I'm dysregulated, I know that I I need football, and then I need some time to calm down after that football.
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And sometimes if I go too far, I just need to be left alone.
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But just that self-awareness from a 13-year-old boy who suffered some of the most horrendous aces, to have that clarity around what he needed and the teacher knowing what he needed, that that's huge, and that's the work.
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That's the work that we're really proud of.
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That's the work that we're trying to do with as many schools as we can to show how movement can be used as a way to support our young people, to to kind of reduce the number of behaviour incidences that we get in school, reduce the knock-on impact of that in terms of exclusions and that pipeline to prison, um, and and just really try and create healthier, happier schools where young people can flourish and thrive and to take the pressure off our teachers so they don't have to have those restorative conversations, they don't have to have all those sanctions afterwards, and to try and make families feel calmer and safer as well.
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Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
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So, I guess what I'm hearing, Neil, is he literally has those strategies now for the rest of his life, doesn't he?
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It's not, you know, what I was thinking at the beginning of our conversation that he's just having a nicer time with his PE teacher.
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It's so much more meaningful than that, isn't it?
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Yeah, no, definitely.
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And what we what we we kind of have five pillars to our approach.
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The the first is non-negotiable, is quality, outstanding relationships.
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That is that is fundamental what rise up is about.
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Then we have the movement for regulation and belonging, um, and children finding the activities that work for them.
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Like you don't have to do the whole program, it's about what works for this group of children and this group of children.
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Then we've got playwrapting care for those children struggling with rage, grief, and shame, looking at the work of Jack Panksp and uh shifting emotional states and Bruce Perry's neurosequential model.
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Um, and then we've got that teacher agency and child agency that's so important.
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Um, no one likes having a program done to them, it's very much a partnership and teachers putting their twist on it, and also children having agency over what those activities are.
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And then once we've got that feeling of psychological safety, really building those the the child's emotional intelligence so that when they leave our care, they've got strategies to go to to try and reduce the pressure on downstream services in this country.
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We know we've got a million children, over a million children either accessing mental health support services or waiting to access mental health support services.
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And what we're trying to do is keep children right at the top of their mental well-being.
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We're not proclaiming to be specialists in trauma, that's not what we're trying to do.
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We're trying to equip children and equip staff, like frontline educators, with the strategies to create an environment that aids recovery rather than adds to the trauma.
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Um, and certainly I've been in schools that that that do both, um, and we're very much about trying to equip educators and then children with that self-care toolkit.
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Absolutely.
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No, that's phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal.
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And I mean, I think you know, having worked in schools for many years ourselves, you know, we know that time is often something, you know, we also don't we haven't got time for that, the curriculum's too full for that.
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You know, what would you kind of say, you know, in terms of you know how important it is, I guess, to kind of make space for maybe things like movement breaks, or it's kind of increasingly sounding more to me like every subject teacher, every member of school staff could be making use of some of this?
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Yeah, 100%.
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I don't think it's an either-or question.
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I think it is to get great outcomes, you need to make sure your child's in a good place, ready to learn.
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Um, and that comes from psychological safety, that comes from regulation, that comes from optimizing those conditions for children to thrive.
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And uh what I found in my own classes was right, I could go really heavy on the curriculum, but I'm not getting the outcomes because these children are deeply unhappy.
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They don't feel safe, they don't feel welcome, they don't feel like they can make mistakes without judgment.
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And when I invested in those relationships, I could spend a lot of time in that space, and I did, but it saved me a hell of a lot of time with lack of restorative conversations, attentions, phone calls home.
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I was a lot happier.
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Myself as a teacher, I fell back in love with teaching again.
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And um it is about right, let's choose where you want to invest your time.
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Do you want to invest it up front and get the reap the outcomes, reap the benefits, or do you want to invest it at the back end, managing um challenging behaviors um and having really unhealthy conversations?
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So I don't see it as an either-or.
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I'm I see it as right, invest in that holistic development of the child, and then that will lead to the outcomes.
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And I wish Ofsted measured the teachers that really invested in those relationships that really provided those protective factors because I think we would see a transformation now in my in my school, in my department, we reduce send-outs by 95% in a turn.
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Now, can you imagine what that would look like across the country if uh across the school we reduce send outs by 95%?
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What would happen to the exclusion rates?
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We've got record exclusions, we've got record unauthorized absence.
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What would happen to those figures if we invested in our children, shrunk the curriculum, and really prioritised what our children need in the 21st century rather than a system that was designed for the industrial revolution and developing a workforce where we've got AI, we've got all these things going on at the moment.
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What do these these children need to help them fly thrive and flourish going forward?
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Absolutely.
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Or actually, is it more about life skills and the age of AI?
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Or I'll tell you one thing that's jumping out for me, Neil, actually, and I've been thinking about it, you know, right the way through our conversation so far, is how a program like yours and all the goodness that you know a school could get from that, it's really supporting children to actually have more confidence in themselves.
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And I'm thinking about all that preventative work around, you know, maybe enhancing self-esteem, you know, you're mastering skills, aren't you?
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You're completing challenges, learning something new.
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Like the shift that that could have in terms of preventing that sort of domino effect, you know, what you were saying before about you know, that the kind of school-to-prison pipeline and all that area that kind of I think pains most of us to kind of even think about, really.
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Yeah, that's the self-care toolkit has kind of got nine steps to it.
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And the first one is about breaking the stigma around talking about mental health.
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And I talk about kind of my own experiences there.
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We use celebrities and role models and sports heroes there to break that stigma because it's okay to not be okay, and that will depend on your situation, your circumstances.
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And then we start to like try to identify those that are struggling as early as possible.
00:20:53.519 --> 00:21:07.839
We use the mental health continuum, but a really cool, cool trick, or not to trick a cool tool where you can anonymously see where each child in your class is within 30 seconds, um, from thriving to okay to starting to struggle, struggling and ill.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:16.160
And like I was saying, well, I used to do that a lot with my classes locked the post-lockdown, and we would see right three children walking in the class, clearly struggling with their mental health.
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.799
But we do that, and it became six, it became nine.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:33.119
And you were like, Wow, that this this the scale of this problem is a lot bigger than we we think, and also gives you a chance to get them early intervention, get them, get them support from safeguarding teams, had some real success with that.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.559
Then it moves on to self-awareness through body scanning and journaling.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.599
We saw like this this program is designed for teenage girls.
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:45.519
With it, with the girls that I worked with, we found that they really liked journaling, but we found that they really didn't like body scanning.
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:50.960
And I don't know whether it's because they had a male PE teacher that was doing it, and the room wasn't particularly nice.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:57.440
But I tried it with my year eight sporty boys, and they loved the body scan and they hated journaling.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:02.640
And it really wasn't designed for them, but the Of MFL came up to me, Steph Steph Benny.
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:03.359
She came up to me.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:04.720
What did you do with your boys?
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:06.319
I was like, Oh no, here we go.
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:08.720
Many of the teacher resonate with that.
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.039
She was like, That is the best they've ever learned.
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:13.119
They were so on it, they were so engaged.
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:19.839
And it was what we'd done is we'd done a real kind of vigorous circuit training session where children had picked what stations had done.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:33.359
Then we'd done um stretching for stretching for sport for sport, which was basically yoga, and we were doing a scan, and we were doing a lot around the deep breathing, three, four, five breathing to regulate the iniquality access to the prefrontal cortex.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.960
And they went off calm and composed to their their MFL lesson.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:39.359
And they they absolutely flourish.
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.480
And they they begged me every week, can we do the breathing exercise?
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:43.519
And I was like, Really?
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.160
I thought you'd want to be like playing football or playing rugby.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:55.680
But but when you think about it, our our particularly our sporty boys are very much bouncing off each other, taking the Mickey out of each other all the time.
00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:03.200
There's a lot of judgment, a lot of comparison, and actually it was just a safe space to be still, to breathe, to reflect.
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:11.200
And um, they really valued that space, and that that was something unintentional that we weren't it wasn't designed for, but that's something that we learned along the way.
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:12.240
So that's step three.
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.759
Step four and five is all around developing that mental fitness pyramid.
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:33.119
So this is where the program started, probably back in 2016, 2017, and we use Marcus Rashford, the real power of story here, around kind of I don't know how many heroes in life, but what he did around food poverty, children's food poverty, children's literacy over lockdown was incredible.
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:45.680
And despite that, he's still taking a huge amounts of criticism, racially abused for missing a penalty for England, criticized in the media, lazy, money grabbing for protecting his family's financial future.
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:47.680
So horrendous abuse in the media.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:52.720
And I say to children, someone like Marcus, with all he's done for children, takes that level of criticism.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:24:07.599
All of us need to kind of build that foundation, and we we really try and build children's holistic self-confidence through what they get at school, what are their passion activities, what do they love to do, what um are they the best characteristics, are they kind, are they caring, are they funny?
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.319
What um what are the different roles they play in life?
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:22.319
They're not just a student at school, they're a son, they're a daughter, they're sisters, they're cousins, um, all those different aspects because far too many children leave our education system feeling like failures when they're not.
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:30.000
They've got no one's better at being Jessica Parker than than you are, no one's better at being Neil Mogan than being Stan than Stan.
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:38.640
Like that's yeah, everybody, everybody is unique, everybody's got value, everybody can bring something different to the to the world and add value in that way.
00:24:38.720 --> 00:25:06.960
And it's about children seeing that, and then we start to look at self-kindness and about right in this age of comparison with social media, doesn't just have to be about that person's the best, it can be that person's awesome, but this person's also awesome, and and and developing that, and then we start to use worries as a positive to reduce anxiety by creating a plan, and then we start to raise aspirations for the future by looking at developing children's kind of aspects of their ricka guy.
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:18.079
So it's not always easy for for children to do that, but just to try and weave in that that extra motivation and having a goal to work towards and taking small steps towards that.
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:26.319
Um, so that's kind of step five, and then we get into healthy habits around the power of sleep, exercise, nutrition, hydration, mindfulness, balance, and social media usage.
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:38.880
And again, in my ECT year, I went to visit a doctor because I'd snap my cruise shirt, I'd stop seeing my friends, I'd split up from a girlfriend, I was drinking too much, I was eating rubbish, I wasn't sleeping too much, I was working loads.
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:41.359
Now, most can seven conditions.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.400
No wonder I was struggling with my mental health and struggling with mental illness.
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:59.359
If we help children understand, right, actually, if you sleep well, if you exercise, if you connect with your friends, if you've got trusted relationships, if you're drinking lots of water, you're eating healthy, the chances are you're going to be higher up on that mental well-being kind of scale.
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:00.000
Well, of course.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.079
Um protect yourself.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:06.559
And um, and then from there we look at accessing the daily dose of happiness chemicals.
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:21.119
So we've got a self-care menu around accessing dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins for when children feel unloved, what can they go to to release that when they feel unmotivated, when they feel struggling with confidence and um unstable in mind, and when they feel in pain.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:30.400
And like in the course of my teaching career, I've lost four amazing young men to suicide when they've left our care and have late teenage years, early 20s, and it's heartbreaking.
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:35.440
It's like those parts of me now that regret why didn't I do this work earlier?
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.839
Why didn't I give them these strategies to help them?
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.880
Like, I still see their families about in our local community.
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:45.759
I told their sisters, and it's really, really heartbreaking, and that fuels a lot of our work.
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:51.200
And then kind of step eight and nine is around creating a bespoke programme for schools and then celebrating success.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:27:26.160
So we we celebrate our teachers, we celebrate our children, and we celebrate the school through through co-creator case studies to really kind of build the the power of what what schools are doing for families because we know that family connection can be a challenge at some places post-lockdown, and we also know evidence in it for Ofsted and performance management and and and helping everyone see how amazing our educators are in this country because we've got some hero educators up and down the country that do so much incredible work and often don't get the credit for it, and our job is to really position them as the heroes and get them the credit they deserve.
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.240
And thankfully, you saw one of those case studies, and that's why we're having that conversation today.
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:32.240
That's why we're here, yeah.
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:35.680
It absolutely is, and and you too are one of those heroes, Neil.
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:49.440
I mean, I know you touched there on you know the devastating, you know, fact that you know we have lost some of our young people to suicide, and you know, we carry them forward with us in in all of our future work that we do.
00:27:49.599 --> 00:28:09.039
Um so I think really what we're talking about here actually is a vehicle of hope, you know, the fact that there can be such a thing as post-traumatic growth, you know, there really is a way that we can champion, you know, you mentioned ACEs before, you know, even our children and young people with some of the highest ACE scores.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:24.319
I mean, if there was maybe something almost practical that I could do tomorrow as a geography teacher or a psychology teacher, or what little bit of essence do you think I could kind of take into my practice tomorrow that might just help the young people a little bit?
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.920
Because that I mean, that must have been magic for the MFL teacher.
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:34.000
I mean, you know, kind of having you know the boys just kind of rocking up, being able to kind of really perform their best.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.880
I mean, yeah, how can other teachers who are listening also embrace that?
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:40.000
I love that.
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.240
Um we we always start with the Mr.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:44.880
Pigton video when Ian Wright means meets Mr.
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:45.359
Pigton.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.559
And I I think fundamentally at the crux of that, how Mr.
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:55.279
Picton changed Ian Wright's life was through the power of relationships, through the love, the guidance, but also the structure.
00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:00.079
So I think I think some of the misconceptions around trauma-informed practice is a bit wishy-washy.
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:05.920
And um that that's that's when it's not done properly.
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:15.279
When it's done properly, it's finding that balance between nurture and structure because both provide that love and the safety guide guardrails to help children flourish.
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:23.119
And certainly in on my trauma-informed journey that I've been on, yeah, I've been in a school where it's way too structure-heavy, where it felt like a prison.
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:26.720
Then I went on this trauma-informed journey where I was probably too much nurturing.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:31.200
The children were running my classes, and I had to find that balance between the two.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:37.839
And that balance would change depending on on the child's child's story and and the knowledge.
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:48.160
So, for example, I had one girl, amazing, amazing girl, really struggling with emotional regulation, running up and down corridors, shouting F off, booting doors, and all that.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.920
Yeah, and on the surface, you'd say, All right, that's not acceptable.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:07.839
But then when you find out that a brother, we lost her brother over lockdown to suicide, and she's struggling with intergenerational trauma and financial lockdown, sudden, suddenly that story becomes understandable, and having that conversation around, look, I heard what happened, I'm here for you.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.720
I can't begin to imagine how you're feeling.
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:13.200
But if you ever want to come and talk, I'm here for you.
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:21.839
And all of a sudden she was a different girl, and like a lot of the staff didn't know a story or hadn't taken the time to learn that and acknowledge that and have that conversation.
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:35.359
But from then on in, anything she need, anytime she she she was struggling, you can the staff could call me and I could calm her down and help her regulate, and and and then all of a sudden she'd be the nicest girl in the world again.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:37.440
And um, that's a really simple story.
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:46.319
But on the other hand, I've got a six-year-old son who's got zero aces, who's wrapped in love, and he doesn't need that same kind of flexibility.
00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:52.079
Often he needs a cuddle or a biscuit or a or a sleep or something like that.
00:30:52.240 --> 00:31:08.480
But but how how I manage those two children are very differently based on my knowledge of their story, and that's why understanding your children's stories, getting to know them, positive meet and greet, face, voice, body, cues of safety um are just so so key and can make such a transformational difference.
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:09.599
Absolutely.
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:15.359
So, I mean, again, you know, we always say it's it really is about relationships, but it really truly is.
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:22.960
You know, you were, you know, again, going back to you know, to the girl you were just talking about there, you know, her safe adult in that moment.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:42.640
Um, and I think, you know, again, I love as well, Neil, how you touched upon, you know, actually how trauma-informed approaches, they're not a soft approach to behaviour, they're not an instead of, you know, we still have those high expectations of our young people, but it's not bubble wrapping poor behaviour.
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.359
And I think that's kind of something that I hear quite a lot.
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:50.559
I don't know whether you've got any reflections there on how we can actually have our cake hand eat it.
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:56.000
And it's probably a bad analogy to use with someone like yourself who's just been talking about health.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:58.880
But yeah, I don't know what your reflections might be there.
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:00.000
Yeah, 100%.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:13.440
I think I think we've got a real important job as people in this space to to address those misconceptions and say, look, this isn't a soft touch, this is how we optimise performance for our young people and optimise outcomes for our young people.
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:20.079
So we've got this this kind of five-step model around managing behaviours without re-traumatising children, but still maintaining high standards.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:29.599
And the first is about reducing unnecessary rules because we used to have this rule where children in the summer term the caretaker complained one day that the dance floor was messy and muddy.
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:38.079
Um, so we uninvert inadvertently introduced this rule that children need to take their trainers off to cut or shoes off to come into the dance studio to register for peeing.
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:47.200
And that led to so much conflict because we were looking down at shoes, take your shoes off, take your shoes off, rather than looking at faces and saying, How are you?
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:48.160
Great to see you.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:53.839
And and we just scrapped that rule in that September time when we started this journey, and it made such a difference.
00:32:54.079 --> 00:33:12.079
The second step is around those cues of safety, that that positive meeting greed, the psychological safety cues on our estate again with lots of girls that lots of children that have witnessed domestic violence, and it's around right as a male PE teacher, I need to soften my voice, I need to smile more, I need to stop having such a neutral face.
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:18.480
Where children that suffered ACEs were perceiving me as being angry when I wasn't at all, but I need to exaggerate that.
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.039
Actually, I'm great, I'm delighted you're here today.
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:28.079
It's so good to see uh high-fives, fist bumps, handshakes, whatever's authentic to you, make children feel really, really welcome.
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:40.400
And then it's around kind of understanding Bruce Perry's neurosequential model about regulate, relate, reason, and understanding what's happening in that that child's brain when they are dysregulated and not taking it personally.
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:43.519
Like as PE teachers, often we want to win the behavior battle.
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:48.000
And I had to do a lot of work around acceptance and curiosity and empathy.
00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:49.759
Um, looking at the work of Dr.
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:54.880
Dan Hughes and the pace model, um, sometimes the use of humour around playfulness as well.
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:58.400
Um, I'm not very funny, so I tended to stay away from that.
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:00.559
I tended to go around acceptance curiosity.
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:13.440
Yeah, but then the final part which really made the difference was getting that balance between nurture and instructor that I just talked around, around getting the right balance because it can be really, really tricky finding that right balance.
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.360
And that is, I think, the crux of it.
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:24.480
The challenge for us as educators now is around knowing your children's stories and where does that line look like and fit like for different children in the same class.
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:28.159
Yeah, the challenges of consistency, and I I get all of that.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:50.480
I've lived that for 20 years, but sometimes some children need something different and need to have a bit more leniency, and some children need a bit more strict, strict, stricter love and care, and and whatever's fine, but trust our teachers, our educators to find that appropriate balance, and then obviously you have your restorative conversations and repairing the ruptures after that.
00:34:50.639 --> 00:35:02.800
But that was the thing that helped us reduce send-outs by 95%, and that's what helped create a feeling where children felt safe enough to move and use movement for regulation, and then build their self-care toolkits on the back of that.
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:04.320
I love that.
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.119
That's yeah, really, really powerful stuff for sure.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.760
So I'm gonna be a bit cheeky.
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.280
I'm a teacher, I love a free resource.
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.519
Is there anything I can have a little look at?
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:16.320
Of course.
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:31.119
We've we've got a huge range of taster resources from podcasts to scorecards to taste of courses, but I think what I would say to to colleagues that are listening that are interested in knowing more is um in the show notes, we'll put in a school well-being scorecard.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:35.599
It takes three minutes, and from that you'll get a personalised report around what your school's already doing.
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:37.039
It's a real safe space to reflect.
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:41.760
There's no judgment there, the data's not shared with anyone else, it's just for you to have a look at that.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:50.000
We've got a trauma-informed frontline educator scorecard, again, a real safe space to reflect on your practice and think about opportunities to develop.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:36:03.280
But like the opportunities for movement, for regulation and belonging wrapped in care are huge, and the the real opportunities there in your school, and we'd very much welcome the opportunity to partner with you, with TIC.
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:06.000
We're really keen to collaborate further, aren't we, Jessica?
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:13.599
In in terms of our connected communities and support each other to help help more educators to transform children's life chances.
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:14.400
100%.
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:16.239
Well, Neil, thank you so much.
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:18.000
I mean, again, gonna be cheeky.
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:25.199
If there was just one golden message that you would hope that our listeners would take away from today, no pressure, what would it be?
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:29.840
I mean the power of movement wrapped in relationships, wrapped in care.
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:40.960
Like it doesn't really matter what the movement is, like any type of movement is gonna help a young child, whether that's around regulation, belonging, but that wrapped in care key bit is the key aspect.
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:50.320
It's not just thrash away at a punch bag aimlessly because that's gonna make them over arouse, it's around the care aspect that is the most important thing for us.
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:54.960
Yeah, and I think for me again, it's just seeing relationships in a different way through, you know.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:06.159
As I say, I hadn't really thought fully about movement and just how extensive it would be, like beyond the PE kind of um, I was gonna say PE classroom, that's how out of touch I am.
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:21.519
Um so it's really been an education for me today, Neil, to kind of see another application um of trauma-informed practice and of course, you know, certainly taking away how much preventative work we're able to do as schools and you know what a real honour and privilege it really is.
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:24.320
So thank you so much, Neil, for joining me today.
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:26.000
Thanks so much for having us, Jessica.
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:30.239
It's been great, great to meet you, great to talk to you, and thank you to everyone who's listened to the podcast.
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:33.760
We really appreciate that and do reach out if you'd like any more information.
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:36.480
Oh, thanks everyone, and thank you, Neil.
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.840
Thank you so much for joining us.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:47.840
To learn more, visit the Trauma Informed Consultancy Services website.
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:49.599
We'll see you next time.
00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:16.399
Hello and welcome to Trauma Informed Conversations, the podcast about trauma, healing, and hope.
00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:24.079
Well, hello everyone.
00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:34.079
I'm here today with the wonderful Neil, having been quite inspired by a recent uh LinkedIn post that I saw on the um active Surrey page.
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:35.520
Neil, welcome.
00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:38.960
Hi Jessica, thank you so much for having us, and hello to all our listeners.
00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:40.560
It's great to be here with you today.
00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:42.079
Fantastic.
00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:50.079
So I came across this yeah, not so little project that you've been working on, Neil, of Rise Up.
00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:56.799
But before we kind of get into Rise Up, I don't know whether you want to tell our lovely listeners a little bit more about yourself and the work that you do.
00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:58.560
Yeah, so um, hello everyone.
00:00:58.640 --> 00:00:59.679
My name's Neil Moggan.
00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:01.679
I taught PE for 19 years.
00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:08.719
Um, my ambition was to become a director of sport, um, and I got that chance at an inner city secondary school in Norwich.
00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:16.959
And around 2015, I um found out that there was a 13-year life expectancy difference depending on what side the main road children were born on outside our school.
00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:18.640
And at first I got really angry.
00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:19.599
How is that fair?
00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:27.599
And one of the 10th richest economies in the world, um, but then it really fueled our work around how do we transform children's life chances and try and bridge that gap.
00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:47.920
Um, so we started off looking at reducing health inequalities through um uh early intervention obesity programs, and then we got into early intervention mental well-being programs because I had three year year seven girls come to my dance lesson late, struggling with anxiety, struggling with confidence, struggling with connection, and I felt really hopeless and helpless.
00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:50.959
I had no strategies on how to help them and cope with them.
00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:55.040
So we started to do some work in that space and we got some awards for that work.
00:01:55.120 --> 00:02:10.639
Um, then we started looking at financial literacy to try and give children resources to create um kind of better outcomes for their family because uh I was looking at Swarbrick's eight dimensions of well-being at the time and looking at what influences kind of um life life life outcomes.
00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.479
Yeah, and then my amazing supportive head teacher left the school.
00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:20.560
He went to a different different school, trust changed, um, and we went to a real behaviorist approach post-lockdown.
00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:25.599
And I had my three best members of staff off on long-term maternity and paternity leave, which was fantastic.
00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:38.000
Yeah, but we know how hard it is to maintain high standards, and for the first time in my teaching career, I was really struggling with relationships and behaviour, even though I never cared more about these children and their families.
00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:43.680
Um, however good our well-being programs were, they just weren't working, and that's where I found trauma-informed practice.
00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:51.360
So I did the TISUK level five practitioner diploma, and pretty much within two weeks it transformed our behaviour outcomes.
00:02:51.439 --> 00:03:00.319
We reduced send outs by 95% in one term um through creating real positive meeting, greet, psychological safety, really making children feel welcome.
00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:06.240
Um, and uh our attendance went up by five percent for our for our our most highest knee children.
00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:09.520
Their predicted grades went up two point two and a half grades in a term.
00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.560
Wow, wow, this is this is amazing.
00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:23.360
But as a whole school, yeah, as a whole school, we were still re-traumatising children on a daily basis with our kind of behaviour management policy policies, which were were quite frankly inadequate.
00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:26.159
And so I left my school December 2022.
00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:38.080
And um, since then we've worked with about 300 schools across the world um helping them create their own bespoke programs based around their own context because nothing used to annoy me more than people coming into my school telling me how to teach my children.
00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:41.439
Oh they wouldn't last 10 minutes in my school.
00:03:41.680 --> 00:04:06.159
Um, and uh, and so we don't patronise teachers, we very much work in partnership um around outstanding relationships, movement for regulation and belonging, play wrapped in care for those children struggling with rage, grief, and shame, teacher agency and child agency, and then building those self-care toolkits to build children's emotional intelligence once they've uh once they're feeling safe and supported and able to kind of access their prefrontal cortex.
00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:07.759
So kind of that's the work we do.
00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:18.800
We're really proud of what we do, and we're we're really privileged to do what we do, and we work with amazing educators around the world to help them kind of empower, empower their own children and support their own children.
00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:20.399
Wow, I'm just staggered.
00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:25.920
I mean, 13-year age difference from one side of the road to another.
00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:38.480
I mean, I think you know that really stood out for me, and I I kind of equally, as you said it, I also put up that anger that I think reminds us about why we work in the space that we work in, Neil, really, doesn't it?
00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:39.279
100%.
00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:54.240
Like when I first found out I was so frustrated because you've worked in schools, you know how children get under our skin and like you worry about them at night, you care deeply, you think you try and tweak and change what you're delivering to get the best out of them.
00:04:54.319 --> 00:05:02.240
And I had a a real cool group of girls kind of post-lockdown that I was really, really worried about, and this was what this program was designed for initially.
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:12.240
But because of the way teachers put their own kind of spin on it, we've been able to take it down to key stage one in primary schools, to special schools, to APs, like it's been incredible.
00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:19.040
And that that's not down to me, that's down to the the brilliant educators that we work with across across the country and across the world.
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:20.399
All right, you know what?
00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:58.959
It's incredible to really just think about, you know, sometimes, you know, that just a chance encounter of you kind of, you know, maybe just seeing that stat, you know, perhaps almost reflecting, you know, where would we be now almost without the pandemic in that kind of way, because it really did, you know, I think help to sort of open up so many more opportunities and almost give us that, you know, extra motivation that probably you know needed to kind of um shake things up a little bit in education and as you say, kind of move away from that behaviorist um approach that many of our schools, mine included, um, were very much kind of relying on at that point.
00:05:59.360 --> 00:05:59.920
Yeah, definitely.
00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:07.600
I think it was a real silver lining of of of lockdown was that awareness around um around the decline of children's mental health.
00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:21.199
Now, um, I used to be ahead of year back in 2000 and and and uh six, seven, and we used to have about 160 children in my year group, and historically we'd have three children that were struggling with mental health, and they all were girls at the time.
00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:40.399
Um, and fast forward post-lockdown, all of a sudden we got 30 children, and it was like six to nine children were struggling with their mental health kind of by 2022, and there's been a huge decline in children's mental health that um unfortunately I've had a front row seat to, and that fuels kind of a lot of the passion for the work that we do.
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:42.560
Yeah, it really, really does.
00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:47.439
Now, the thing that unites us, Neil, is our passion for trauma reform practice.
00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:55.600
I'm not going to lie, okay, the last time that I did probably much around sport myself was probably in about year 11.
00:06:55.839 --> 00:07:14.160
So, can you teach me a little bit, please, about movement, about sport, about you know, again, like rise up, you know, in terms of that vehicle for kind of getting people out, getting them moving, almost kind of supporting belonging and relationships and nurturing through sport.
00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:15.920
How does that work?
00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:29.759
Yeah, so um I created this recover framework, which was a seven-step model to teach colleagues within my department, kind of around the ACES study, the evidence base behind it, and then the eight protective factors around emotionally available adults.
00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:37.600
And then kind of the next kind of phase of that, the steps three, four, and five is around right, how do we be intentional about creating psychological safety?
00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:46.399
Those positive meets and greets, the cues of safety for our face-voice body, our power of relationships, knowing our children, knowing their stories and what they need.
00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:53.680
So that's kind of step three, and then step four is about that movement for regulation and belonging, and that's where RISE comes into it.
00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:58.639
So RISE is an acronym standing for repeaters, inclusive teams, dressbusters, and energizers.
00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:04.800
Repeaters are repeatable activities like running, walking, swimming, deep breathing in yoga has the same impact.
00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:12.399
And what we're trying to do is create this own two-style deep breathing that calms the amygdala, widens the window of tolerance, and accesses a prefrontal cortex.
00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:26.560
And B teachers use that they use these types of activities all the time in their P lessons, and it's just about being really intentional about it, um, so that we're not just doing it for kind of health benefits, it's around right, let's use it for regulation and belonging.
00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:28.079
Um, so that's the R.
00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:36.080
The I is around inclusive teams, and that's around this feeling of connection, this feeling of love, um, connection with others away from a screen.
00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:39.120
Um, and that can be traditional team games or non-traditional team games.
00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:52.159
So it can be your footballs, your netballs, your cricket, your rugby, or it can be like outdoor adventure activities, it can be stuff like we've had real success with children with autism teaching their favourite computer games physically to their classmates.
00:08:52.240 --> 00:09:01.759
So um it can be it can be so much, and it can go wider than PE, it can be school shows, your dance productions, yeah, uh Warhammer Club, your chess club, your mindful journaling club.
00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:09.200
It like we obviously we're we're we're looking at for a PE lens, but it can go so much wider, and that's developing that sense of belonging in our schools.
00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:10.559
Then we have stress busters.
00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:23.679
Stress busters are very much like repeaters in terms of that deep heavy work when we're exerting a force against a resistance in a controlled, predictable way, wrapped in care, again, calming the amygdala, one the window of tolerance and accessing the prefrontal cortex.
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:26.720
So that's stuff like punching a punch bag, wrapped in care.
00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:32.159
That's stuff like weight training, it's press-ups, it's pushing against the floor in yoga for our our introverts.
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:37.840
There's so many different ways schools can do that, and this is very much about bringing our high-energy children.
00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:48.559
Sometimes uh very much in my classes, my sporty boys bring them down into their window tolerance, and then energizers is about bringing our children up into their window of tolerance.
00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:51.039
So, this is my this was in my classes.
00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:54.720
Traditionally, my my my girls struggling with low mood, how do I bring them up?
00:09:54.799 --> 00:10:04.080
And that was very much through dance, it was aerobic activities that stimulated that that kind of uh dopamine and serotonin to to bring them up into their window tolerance.
00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:12.240
So it's stuff like skipping, stuff like circuit training, that kind of stuff, but always with child agency involved and always wrapped in care.
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:17.279
All of these activities are wrapped in care with the relationships that are kind of fundamental to it.
00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:22.320
So um we help we help schools kind of use those different activities in different ways.
00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:31.440
It can be in PE, it can be as an intervention, it can be as a rise up sports sanctuary, it can be as movement breaks, it can be as active form times, it can be um kind of interform competitions.
00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:40.720
There's so many different ways that schools can weave that into their school day depending on their context, because every school is so different and every school needs that support.
00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:41.840
I love that.
00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:44.159
So I was wrong, it's not just PE, is it?
00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:48.320
It's literally any subject where you can incorporate movement.
00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:54.000
We could use this staff, you know, this whole set of strategies.
00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:55.120
100%.
00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:03.679
Yeah, it that's like um, I think that case study that you saw around Ravenscott Jr., they were very much using it as kind of movement breaks within lessons.
00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:20.000
So we we worked with all their staff around empowering them at in that that approach, but they also had a core group of 24 children that um kind of ADHD children that kind of needed that little bit extra and were taught different regulation strategies wrapped in care again.
00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:35.120
Gary did a brilliant job supporting them, um, fantastic leadership from Amy Wells, and then kind of then children had that chance to kind of show their ticket, go off and do uh that that extra movement when they when they were feeling heightened and needed those opportunities to regulate.
00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:39.919
Um, and they've created a fantastic school culture around that and kind of reap the rewards from it.
00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:42.720
That's really interesting, really, really interesting.
00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:48.639
So I guess what I'm hearing is you know, we are supporting with regulation, aren't we?
00:11:48.879 --> 00:12:10.720
We are, you know, guiding young people to be able to initially co-regulate with us as the adults leading the programs, but then equally, you know, almost having these skills for life as well, so that they can think back to, you know, actually everything that you taught them and you know, kind of really understanding where they might be, you know, on the window of tolerance and which direction they want to be moving in.
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:11.440
100%.
00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:16.159
Yeah, but that that feeling of psychological safety and co-regulation is so, so key.
00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:25.039
And then once we've got them in their prefrontal cortex starting to develop their emotional intelligence around right, what strategies do I need to help me regulate?
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:35.840
And I've done a lot of work on myself, and I know that when I'm dysregulated, I need to get in the garage and do my weight training and go for a run and a walk so I don't take out on my two young children, my wife.
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:44.879
And I think the more we can help our children understand what they need, then the better it can be, and also what teachers understand and what their young people need.
00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:50.320
So we work what one of my proudest case studies is is a school called Buell Park Specialist Academy.
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.200
It's a boys SMH residential school in Great Yarmouth.
00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:56.639
And um, Anita Fidesz Capeda has done a brilliant job.
00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.120
Initially, she started with these year five boys in their first year together.
00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.960
They had 50 physical holds, 50 physical interventions.
00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:14.399
She's done some amazing work around when they're in their prefrontal cortex, identifying what free strategies they need the most in terms of movement, and it was combined with a thrive approach as well.
00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:21.039
So they had kind of uh some some running machines, uh rowing machines at the back of the class, they had a little bit of weights.
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:31.440
They also had a thrive room with a trampette, and children had those these free strategies, and then they'd show their card, or the teacher would say, Maybe you need to go off with your TA and do some movement.
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:38.080
And um, in year six, their physical holds were 38, and year seven went down to 10.
00:13:38.240 --> 00:14:01.840
And um, just when you think about the shame of being physically restrained in front of your classmates to take it from 50 to 10 was just awesome, and Anita's done amazing work there, and then there was we I went in to to do some work, kind of creating that capturing that that evidence, and there was a year eight boy there who kind of four months before had been in the back of the police car in handcuffs restrained from from self-harm.
00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:11.039
Um, and then just four months later, he's talking about when I'm dysregulated, I know that I I need football, and then I need some time to calm down after that football.
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:14.240
And sometimes if I go too far, I just need to be left alone.
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:25.840
But just that self-awareness from a 13-year-old boy who suffered some of the most horrendous aces, to have that clarity around what he needed and the teacher knowing what he needed, that that's huge, and that's the work.
00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:27.440
That's the work that we're really proud of.
00:14:27.519 --> 00:15:01.519
That's the work that we're trying to do with as many schools as we can to show how movement can be used as a way to support our young people, to to kind of reduce the number of behaviour incidences that we get in school, reduce the knock-on impact of that in terms of exclusions and that pipeline to prison, um, and and just really try and create healthier, happier schools where young people can flourish and thrive and to take the pressure off our teachers so they don't have to have those restorative conversations, they don't have to have all those sanctions afterwards, and to try and make families feel calmer and safer as well.
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.000
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:10.080
So, I guess what I'm hearing, Neil, is he literally has those strategies now for the rest of his life, doesn't he?
00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:16.159
It's not, you know, what I was thinking at the beginning of our conversation that he's just having a nicer time with his PE teacher.
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.120
It's so much more meaningful than that, isn't it?
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:20.399
Yeah, no, definitely.
00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.440
And what we what we we kind of have five pillars to our approach.
00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:27.279
The the first is non-negotiable, is quality, outstanding relationships.
00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.240
That is that is fundamental what rise up is about.
00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:36.720
Then we have the movement for regulation and belonging, um, and children finding the activities that work for them.
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:41.679
Like you don't have to do the whole program, it's about what works for this group of children and this group of children.
00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:51.679
Then we've got playwrapting care for those children struggling with rage, grief, and shame, looking at the work of Jack Panksp and uh shifting emotional states and Bruce Perry's neurosequential model.
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:56.559
Um, and then we've got that teacher agency and child agency that's so important.
00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:05.759
Um, no one likes having a program done to them, it's very much a partnership and teachers putting their twist on it, and also children having agency over what those activities are.
00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:19.120
And then once we've got that feeling of psychological safety, really building those the the child's emotional intelligence so that when they leave our care, they've got strategies to go to to try and reduce the pressure on downstream services in this country.
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:25.919
We know we've got a million children, over a million children either accessing mental health support services or waiting to access mental health support services.
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:30.399
And what we're trying to do is keep children right at the top of their mental well-being.
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.759
We're not proclaiming to be specialists in trauma, that's not what we're trying to do.
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:45.120
We're trying to equip children and equip staff, like frontline educators, with the strategies to create an environment that aids recovery rather than adds to the trauma.
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:54.320
Um, and certainly I've been in schools that that that do both, um, and we're very much about trying to equip educators and then children with that self-care toolkit.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:55.440
Absolutely.
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:57.759
No, that's phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal.
00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:08.400
And I mean, I think you know, having worked in schools for many years ourselves, you know, we know that time is often something, you know, we also don't we haven't got time for that, the curriculum's too full for that.
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:28.559
You know, what would you kind of say, you know, in terms of you know how important it is, I guess, to kind of make space for maybe things like movement breaks, or it's kind of increasingly sounding more to me like every subject teacher, every member of school staff could be making use of some of this?
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:29.680
Yeah, 100%.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.000
I don't think it's an either-or question.
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:38.000
I think it is to get great outcomes, you need to make sure your child's in a good place, ready to learn.
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:46.240
Um, and that comes from psychological safety, that comes from regulation, that comes from optimizing those conditions for children to thrive.
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:56.640
And uh what I found in my own classes was right, I could go really heavy on the curriculum, but I'm not getting the outcomes because these children are deeply unhappy.
00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:01.279
They don't feel safe, they don't feel welcome, they don't feel like they can make mistakes without judgment.
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:13.119
And when I invested in those relationships, I could spend a lot of time in that space, and I did, but it saved me a hell of a lot of time with lack of restorative conversations, attentions, phone calls home.
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:14.559
I was a lot happier.
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.000
Myself as a teacher, I fell back in love with teaching again.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:21.839
And um it is about right, let's choose where you want to invest your time.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:32.720
Do you want to invest it up front and get the reap the outcomes, reap the benefits, or do you want to invest it at the back end, managing um challenging behaviors um and having really unhealthy conversations?
00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:34.480
So I don't see it as an either-or.
00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:40.720
I'm I see it as right, invest in that holistic development of the child, and then that will lead to the outcomes.
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:55.759
And I wish Ofsted measured the teachers that really invested in those relationships that really provided those protective factors because I think we would see a transformation now in my in my school, in my department, we reduce send-outs by 95% in a turn.
00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:01.680
Now, can you imagine what that would look like across the country if uh across the school we reduce send outs by 95%?
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:03.759
What would happen to the exclusion rates?
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.119
We've got record exclusions, we've got record unauthorized absence.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:23.920
What would happen to those figures if we invested in our children, shrunk the curriculum, and really prioritised what our children need in the 21st century rather than a system that was designed for the industrial revolution and developing a workforce where we've got AI, we've got all these things going on at the moment.
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.279
What do these these children need to help them fly thrive and flourish going forward?
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:30.079
Absolutely.
00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:42.160
Or actually, is it more about life skills and the age of AI?
00:19:42.240 --> 00:20:01.039
Or I'll tell you one thing that's jumping out for me, Neil, actually, and I've been thinking about it, you know, right the way through our conversation so far, is how a program like yours and all the goodness that you know a school could get from that, it's really supporting children to actually have more confidence in themselves.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:09.039
And I'm thinking about all that preventative work around, you know, maybe enhancing self-esteem, you know, you're mastering skills, aren't you?
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.960
You're completing challenges, learning something new.
00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:29.680
Like the shift that that could have in terms of preventing that sort of domino effect, you know, what you were saying before about you know, that the kind of school-to-prison pipeline and all that area that kind of I think pains most of us to kind of even think about, really.
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:34.000
Yeah, that's the self-care toolkit has kind of got nine steps to it.
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.440
And the first one is about breaking the stigma around talking about mental health.
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:39.680
And I talk about kind of my own experiences there.
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:49.279
We use celebrities and role models and sports heroes there to break that stigma because it's okay to not be okay, and that will depend on your situation, your circumstances.
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:53.440
And then we start to like try to identify those that are struggling as early as possible.
00:20:53.519 --> 00:21:07.839
We use the mental health continuum, but a really cool, cool trick, or not to trick a cool tool where you can anonymously see where each child in your class is within 30 seconds, um, from thriving to okay to starting to struggle, struggling and ill.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:16.160
And like I was saying, well, I used to do that a lot with my classes locked the post-lockdown, and we would see right three children walking in the class, clearly struggling with their mental health.
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.799
But we do that, and it became six, it became nine.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:33.119
And you were like, Wow, that this this the scale of this problem is a lot bigger than we we think, and also gives you a chance to get them early intervention, get them, get them support from safeguarding teams, had some real success with that.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.559
Then it moves on to self-awareness through body scanning and journaling.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.599
We saw like this this program is designed for teenage girls.
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:45.519
With it, with the girls that I worked with, we found that they really liked journaling, but we found that they really didn't like body scanning.
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:50.960
And I don't know whether it's because they had a male PE teacher that was doing it, and the room wasn't particularly nice.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:57.440
But I tried it with my year eight sporty boys, and they loved the body scan and they hated journaling.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:02.640
And it really wasn't designed for them, but the Of MFL came up to me, Steph Steph Benny.
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:03.359
She came up to me.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:04.720
What did you do with your boys?
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:06.319
I was like, Oh no, here we go.
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:08.720
Many of the teacher resonate with that.
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.039
She was like, That is the best they've ever learned.
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:13.119
They were so on it, they were so engaged.
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:19.839
And it was what we'd done is we'd done a real kind of vigorous circuit training session where children had picked what stations had done.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:33.359
Then we'd done um stretching for stretching for sport for sport, which was basically yoga, and we were doing a scan, and we were doing a lot around the deep breathing, three, four, five breathing to regulate the iniquality access to the prefrontal cortex.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.960
And they went off calm and composed to their their MFL lesson.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:39.359
And they they absolutely flourish.
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.480
And they they begged me every week, can we do the breathing exercise?
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:43.519
And I was like, Really?
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.160
I thought you'd want to be like playing football or playing rugby.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:55.680
But but when you think about it, our our particularly our sporty boys are very much bouncing off each other, taking the Mickey out of each other all the time.
00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:03.200
There's a lot of judgment, a lot of comparison, and actually it was just a safe space to be still, to breathe, to reflect.
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:11.200
And um, they really valued that space, and that that was something unintentional that we weren't it wasn't designed for, but that's something that we learned along the way.
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:12.240
So that's step three.
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.759
Step four and five is all around developing that mental fitness pyramid.
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:33.119
So this is where the program started, probably back in 2016, 2017, and we use Marcus Rashford, the real power of story here, around kind of I don't know how many heroes in life, but what he did around food poverty, children's food poverty, children's literacy over lockdown was incredible.
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:45.680
And despite that, he's still taking a huge amounts of criticism, racially abused for missing a penalty for England, criticized in the media, lazy, money grabbing for protecting his family's financial future.
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:47.680
So horrendous abuse in the media.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:52.720
And I say to children, someone like Marcus, with all he's done for children, takes that level of criticism.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:24:07.599
All of us need to kind of build that foundation, and we we really try and build children's holistic self-confidence through what they get at school, what are their passion activities, what do they love to do, what um are they the best characteristics, are they kind, are they caring, are they funny?
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.319
What um what are the different roles they play in life?
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:22.319
They're not just a student at school, they're a son, they're a daughter, they're sisters, they're cousins, um, all those different aspects because far too many children leave our education system feeling like failures when they're not.
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:30.000
They've got no one's better at being Jessica Parker than than you are, no one's better at being Neil Mogan than being Stan than Stan.
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:38.640
Like that's yeah, everybody, everybody is unique, everybody's got value, everybody can bring something different to the to the world and add value in that way.
00:24:38.720 --> 00:25:06.960
And it's about children seeing that, and then we start to look at self-kindness and about right in this age of comparison with social media, doesn't just have to be about that person's the best, it can be that person's awesome, but this person's also awesome, and and and developing that, and then we start to use worries as a positive to reduce anxiety by creating a plan, and then we start to raise aspirations for the future by looking at developing children's kind of aspects of their ricka guy.
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:18.079
So it's not always easy for for children to do that, but just to try and weave in that that extra motivation and having a goal to work towards and taking small steps towards that.
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:26.319
Um, so that's kind of step five, and then we get into healthy habits around the power of sleep, exercise, nutrition, hydration, mindfulness, balance, and social media usage.
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:38.880
And again, in my ECT year, I went to visit a doctor because I'd snap my cruise shirt, I'd stop seeing my friends, I'd split up from a girlfriend, I was drinking too much, I was eating rubbish, I wasn't sleeping too much, I was working loads.
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:41.359
Now, most can seven conditions.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.400
No wonder I was struggling with my mental health and struggling with mental illness.
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:59.359
If we help children understand, right, actually, if you sleep well, if you exercise, if you connect with your friends, if you've got trusted relationships, if you're drinking lots of water, you're eating healthy, the chances are you're going to be higher up on that mental well-being kind of scale.
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:00.000
Well, of course.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.079
Um protect yourself.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:06.559
And um, and then from there we look at accessing the daily dose of happiness chemicals.
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:21.119
So we've got a self-care menu around accessing dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins for when children feel unloved, what can they go to to release that when they feel unmotivated, when they feel struggling with confidence and um unstable in mind, and when they feel in pain.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:30.400
And like in the course of my teaching career, I've lost four amazing young men to suicide when they've left our care and have late teenage years, early 20s, and it's heartbreaking.
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:35.440
It's like those parts of me now that regret why didn't I do this work earlier?
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.839
Why didn't I give them these strategies to help them?
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.880
Like, I still see their families about in our local community.
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:45.759
I told their sisters, and it's really, really heartbreaking, and that fuels a lot of our work.
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:51.200
And then kind of step eight and nine is around creating a bespoke programme for schools and then celebrating success.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:27:26.160
So we we celebrate our teachers, we celebrate our children, and we celebrate the school through through co-creator case studies to really kind of build the the power of what what schools are doing for families because we know that family connection can be a challenge at some places post-lockdown, and we also know evidence in it for Ofsted and performance management and and and helping everyone see how amazing our educators are in this country because we've got some hero educators up and down the country that do so much incredible work and often don't get the credit for it, and our job is to really position them as the heroes and get them the credit they deserve.
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.240
And thankfully, you saw one of those case studies, and that's why we're having that conversation today.
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:32.240
That's why we're here, yeah.
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:35.680
It absolutely is, and and you too are one of those heroes, Neil.
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:49.440
I mean, I know you touched there on you know the devastating, you know, fact that you know we have lost some of our young people to suicide, and you know, we carry them forward with us in in all of our future work that we do.
00:27:49.599 --> 00:28:09.039
Um so I think really what we're talking about here actually is a vehicle of hope, you know, the fact that there can be such a thing as post-traumatic growth, you know, there really is a way that we can champion, you know, you mentioned ACEs before, you know, even our children and young people with some of the highest ACE scores.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:24.319
I mean, if there was maybe something almost practical that I could do tomorrow as a geography teacher or a psychology teacher, or what little bit of essence do you think I could kind of take into my practice tomorrow that might just help the young people a little bit?
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.920
Because that I mean, that must have been magic for the MFL teacher.
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:34.000
I mean, you know, kind of having you know the boys just kind of rocking up, being able to kind of really perform their best.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.880
I mean, yeah, how can other teachers who are listening also embrace that?
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:40.000
I love that.
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.240
Um we we always start with the Mr.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:44.880
Pigton video when Ian Wright means meets Mr.
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:45.359
Pigton.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.559
And I I think fundamentally at the crux of that, how Mr.
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:55.279
Picton changed Ian Wright's life was through the power of relationships, through the love, the guidance, but also the structure.
00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:00.079
So I think I think some of the misconceptions around trauma-informed practice is a bit wishy-washy.
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:05.920
And um that that's that's when it's not done properly.
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:15.279
When it's done properly, it's finding that balance between nurture and structure because both provide that love and the safety guide guardrails to help children flourish.
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:23.119
And certainly in on my trauma-informed journey that I've been on, yeah, I've been in a school where it's way too structure-heavy, where it felt like a prison.
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:26.720
Then I went on this trauma-informed journey where I was probably too much nurturing.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:31.200
The children were running my classes, and I had to find that balance between the two.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:37.839
And that balance would change depending on on the child's child's story and and the knowledge.
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:48.160
So, for example, I had one girl, amazing, amazing girl, really struggling with emotional regulation, running up and down corridors, shouting F off, booting doors, and all that.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.920
Yeah, and on the surface, you'd say, All right, that's not acceptable.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:07.839
But then when you find out that a brother, we lost her brother over lockdown to suicide, and she's struggling with intergenerational trauma and financial lockdown, sudden, suddenly that story becomes understandable, and having that conversation around, look, I heard what happened, I'm here for you.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.720
I can't begin to imagine how you're feeling.
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:13.200
But if you ever want to come and talk, I'm here for you.
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:21.839
And all of a sudden she was a different girl, and like a lot of the staff didn't know a story or hadn't taken the time to learn that and acknowledge that and have that conversation.
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:35.359
But from then on in, anything she need, anytime she she she was struggling, you can the staff could call me and I could calm her down and help her regulate, and and and then all of a sudden she'd be the nicest girl in the world again.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:37.440
And um, that's a really simple story.
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:46.319
But on the other hand, I've got a six-year-old son who's got zero aces, who's wrapped in love, and he doesn't need that same kind of flexibility.
00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:52.079
Often he needs a cuddle or a biscuit or a or a sleep or something like that.
00:30:52.240 --> 00:31:08.480
But but how how I manage those two children are very differently based on my knowledge of their story, and that's why understanding your children's stories, getting to know them, positive meet and greet, face, voice, body, cues of safety um are just so so key and can make such a transformational difference.
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:09.599
Absolutely.
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:15.359
So, I mean, again, you know, we always say it's it really is about relationships, but it really truly is.
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:22.960
You know, you were, you know, again, going back to you know, to the girl you were just talking about there, you know, her safe adult in that moment.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:42.640
Um, and I think, you know, again, I love as well, Neil, how you touched upon, you know, actually how trauma-informed approaches, they're not a soft approach to behaviour, they're not an instead of, you know, we still have those high expectations of our young people, but it's not bubble wrapping poor behaviour.
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.359
And I think that's kind of something that I hear quite a lot.
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:50.559
I don't know whether you've got any reflections there on how we can actually have our cake hand eat it.
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:56.000
And it's probably a bad analogy to use with someone like yourself who's just been talking about health.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:58.880
But yeah, I don't know what your reflections might be there.
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:00.000
Yeah, 100%.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:13.440
I think I think we've got a real important job as people in this space to to address those misconceptions and say, look, this isn't a soft touch, this is how we optimise performance for our young people and optimise outcomes for our young people.
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:20.079
So we've got this this kind of five-step model around managing behaviours without re-traumatising children, but still maintaining high standards.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:29.599
And the first is about reducing unnecessary rules because we used to have this rule where children in the summer term the caretaker complained one day that the dance floor was messy and muddy.
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:38.079
Um, so we uninvert inadvertently introduced this rule that children need to take their trainers off to cut or shoes off to come into the dance studio to register for peeing.
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:47.200
And that led to so much conflict because we were looking down at shoes, take your shoes off, take your shoes off, rather than looking at faces and saying, How are you?
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:48.160
Great to see you.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:53.839
And and we just scrapped that rule in that September time when we started this journey, and it made such a difference.
00:32:54.079 --> 00:33:12.079
The second step is around those cues of safety, that that positive meeting greed, the psychological safety cues on our estate again with lots of girls that lots of children that have witnessed domestic violence, and it's around right as a male PE teacher, I need to soften my voice, I need to smile more, I need to stop having such a neutral face.
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:18.480
Where children that suffered ACEs were perceiving me as being angry when I wasn't at all, but I need to exaggerate that.
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.039
Actually, I'm great, I'm delighted you're here today.
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:28.079
It's so good to see uh high-fives, fist bumps, handshakes, whatever's authentic to you, make children feel really, really welcome.
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:40.400
And then it's around kind of understanding Bruce Perry's neurosequential model about regulate, relate, reason, and understanding what's happening in that that child's brain when they are dysregulated and not taking it personally.
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:43.519
Like as PE teachers, often we want to win the behavior battle.
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:48.000
And I had to do a lot of work around acceptance and curiosity and empathy.
00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:49.759
Um, looking at the work of Dr.
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:54.880
Dan Hughes and the pace model, um, sometimes the use of humour around playfulness as well.
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:58.400
Um, I'm not very funny, so I tended to stay away from that.
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:00.559
I tended to go around acceptance curiosity.
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:13.440
Yeah, but then the final part which really made the difference was getting that balance between nurture and instructor that I just talked around, around getting the right balance because it can be really, really tricky finding that right balance.
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:15.360
And that is, I think, the crux of it.
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:24.480
The challenge for us as educators now is around knowing your children's stories and where does that line look like and fit like for different children in the same class.
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:28.159
Yeah, the challenges of consistency, and I I get all of that.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:50.480
I've lived that for 20 years, but sometimes some children need something different and need to have a bit more leniency, and some children need a bit more strict, strict, stricter love and care, and and whatever's fine, but trust our teachers, our educators to find that appropriate balance, and then obviously you have your restorative conversations and repairing the ruptures after that.
00:34:50.639 --> 00:35:02.800
But that was the thing that helped us reduce send-outs by 95%, and that's what helped create a feeling where children felt safe enough to move and use movement for regulation, and then build their self-care toolkits on the back of that.
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:04.320
I love that.
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.119
That's yeah, really, really powerful stuff for sure.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.760
So I'm gonna be a bit cheeky.
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.280
I'm a teacher, I love a free resource.
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.519
Is there anything I can have a little look at?
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:16.320
Of course.
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:31.119
We've we've got a huge range of taster resources from podcasts to scorecards to taste of courses, but I think what I would say to to colleagues that are listening that are interested in knowing more is um in the show notes, we'll put in a school well-being scorecard.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:35.599
It takes three minutes, and from that you'll get a personalised report around what your school's already doing.
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:37.039
It's a real safe space to reflect.
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:41.760
There's no judgment there, the data's not shared with anyone else, it's just for you to have a look at that.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:50.000
We've got a trauma-informed frontline educator scorecard, again, a real safe space to reflect on your practice and think about opportunities to develop.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:36:03.280
But like the opportunities for movement, for regulation and belonging wrapped in care are huge, and the the real opportunities there in your school, and we'd very much welcome the opportunity to partner with you, with TIC.
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:06.000
We're really keen to collaborate further, aren't we, Jessica?
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:13.599
In in terms of our connected communities and support each other to help help more educators to transform children's life chances.
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:14.400
100%.
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:16.239
Well, Neil, thank you so much.
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:18.000
I mean, again, gonna be cheeky.
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:25.199
If there was just one golden message that you would hope that our listeners would take away from today, no pressure, what would it be?
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:29.840
I mean the power of movement wrapped in relationships, wrapped in care.
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:40.960
Like it doesn't really matter what the movement is, like any type of movement is gonna help a young child, whether that's around regulation, belonging, but that wrapped in care key bit is the key aspect.
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:50.320
It's not just thrash away at a punch bag aimlessly because that's gonna make them over arouse, it's around the care aspect that is the most important thing for us.
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:54.960
Yeah, and I think for me again, it's just seeing relationships in a different way through, you know.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:06.159
As I say, I hadn't really thought fully about movement and just how extensive it would be, like beyond the PE kind of um, I was gonna say PE classroom, that's how out of touch I am.
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:21.519
Um so it's really been an education for me today, Neil, to kind of see another application um of trauma-informed practice and of course, you know, certainly taking away how much preventative work we're able to do as schools and you know what a real honour and privilege it really is.
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:24.320
So thank you so much, Neil, for joining me today.
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:26.000
Thanks so much for having us, Jessica.
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:30.239
It's been great, great to meet you, great to talk to you, and thank you to everyone who's listened to the podcast.
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:33.760
We really appreciate that and do reach out if you'd like any more information.
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:36.480
Oh, thanks everyone, and thank you, Neil.
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:43.840
Thank you so much for joining us.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:47.840
To learn more, visit the Trauma Informed Consultancy Services website.
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:49.599
We'll see you next time.
