WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.430 --> 00:00:03.259
People can finally get their money out of Binance again,
2
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.629
three days after the biggest crypto heist in history. The
3
00:00:06.650 --> 00:00:11.669
world's largest cryptocurrency exchange began restoring withdrawals Sunday, starting with Bitcoin.
4
00:00:12.050 --> 00:00:16.070
Binance says it has covered about 95% of the losses
5
00:00:16.149 --> 00:00:19.870
from its reserves, a claim that hasn't been independently verified.
6
00:00:20.410 --> 00:00:24.589
The FBI has attributed the theft of more than $ 6
7
00:00:23.670 --> 00:00:27.910
billion to North Korea. Investigators say the attack was carried
8
00:00:27.969 --> 00:00:31.589
out by a state-backed hacking group known as Trader Trader.
9
00:00:34.979 --> 00:00:38.460
Jake Moore is global cybersecurity advisor for the IT security
10
00:00:38.500 --> 00:00:43.149
company ESET. With the resumption of withdrawals, Binance has seen
11
00:00:43.270 --> 00:00:48.130
net outflows of some $ 3. 5 billion. That's only 2% of
12
00:00:48.170 --> 00:00:51.509
total assets under its management. But how substantial would you
13
00:00:51.549 --> 00:00:52.149
say that is?
14
00:00:54.210 --> 00:00:56.369
Yeah, this is huge. This is going to hurt them
15
00:00:57.189 --> 00:01:01.560
in values of trust. and looking at the future. And unfortunately,
16
00:01:01.740 --> 00:01:03.640
with something like this, when it happens, it rocks the
17
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:07.099
boat across the world in finance, but also those customers
18
00:01:07.530 --> 00:01:10.349
wondering if what they've got is safe in the future.
19
00:01:10.769 --> 00:01:13.569
So it is the biggest heist so far that we've seen.
20
00:01:13.590 --> 00:01:18.489
I mean, stealing over $ 6 billion in one go in
21
00:01:18.689 --> 00:01:21.290
only 20 minutes is huge. But if we look to
22
00:01:21.310 --> 00:01:23.890
the future, this may well be something that is seen
23
00:01:23.930 --> 00:01:27.469
as small because no doubt something like this will happen
24
00:01:27.510 --> 00:01:30.930
again because we just have the relentlessness of these cyber
25
00:01:30.969 --> 00:01:34.930
criminals who are able to, unfortunately, attack with such sophistication.
26
00:01:36.090 --> 00:01:39.450
Jake, what's it say about the company when Binance says
27
00:01:39.510 --> 00:01:42.890
it's able to cover 95% of the stolen tokens within
28
00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:43.689
just a few days?
29
00:01:45.709 --> 00:01:48.519
Well, they have a huge amount of money and they've
30
00:01:48.530 --> 00:01:50.840
got to look at this in the bigger picture. If
31
00:01:50.939 --> 00:01:55.379
they don't recover all that money for those people that
32
00:01:55.420 --> 00:01:59.040
have lost all their money invested and in storage there,
33
00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:01.379
then they just won't get those people to trust them
34
00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:04.319
in the future. So they have to take this on
35
00:02:04.379 --> 00:02:06.760
the chin. And fortunately, that's something that they have to do.
36
00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.340
It would have been a very difficult few hours and
37
00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:12.560
few days for them to come to that arrangement. But
38
00:02:12.590 --> 00:02:16.409
it's something to protect them and their future. And hopefully
39
00:02:16.449 --> 00:02:19.530
that can protect crypto's future because it's definitely thrown some
40
00:02:19.569 --> 00:02:24.229
uncertainty across anyone who's got crypto currencies in the world
41
00:02:24.509 --> 00:02:26.569
and how they store them and how they spread them
42
00:02:26.629 --> 00:02:27.650
to minimize that risk.
43
00:02:28.509 --> 00:02:32.080
Talking about certainty or uncertainty, I mean, we haven't been
44
00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:36.419
able to verify independently this claim that they've covered 95%
45
00:02:36.419 --> 00:02:39.750
of losses from its reserves. It's publishing a proof of
46
00:02:39.810 --> 00:02:42.490
reserves report Monday. Your expectations?
47
00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:46.439
Yeah, so this will be very interesting. We've never seen
48
00:02:46.460 --> 00:02:49.560
anything like this in these numbers. They're looking at preparing,
49
00:02:49.580 --> 00:02:52.400
like you say, the proof of reserves tomorrow. That'll be
50
00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:56.259
very interesting. They're saying they're going to absorb the losses
51
00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:58.599
rather than pass them on to customers. So this is
52
00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:00.659
something that I think we need to be looking at closely,
53
00:03:00.699 --> 00:03:05.250
but others will be other ways and other companies, other
54
00:03:05.270 --> 00:03:07.870
exchanges will be looking at as well. But it's also
55
00:03:08.090 --> 00:03:11.009
about making sure that they are able to better protect
56
00:03:11.030 --> 00:03:14.569
customers their finances in the future, because we're looking at
57
00:03:14.750 --> 00:03:18.479
now more than one specific point of entry, but multiple
58
00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:22.330
points of entry mean more risk to them. I know
59
00:03:22.389 --> 00:03:27.889
that we are talking very sophisticated ways of targeting the company,
60
00:03:28.189 --> 00:03:31.069
but they still were able to be breached. And this
61
00:03:31.150 --> 00:03:34.370
is where we're talking about hacking humans and the operations
62
00:03:34.409 --> 00:03:37.590
and the systems that they have as well. So they'll
63
00:03:37.610 --> 00:03:40.650
be looking at so much to protect them and their futures.
64
00:03:40.930 --> 00:03:44.090
In the meantime, try and absorb those costs, make people
65
00:03:44.409 --> 00:03:46.990
at least feel confident, and then we can move forward.
66
00:03:47.629 --> 00:03:50.629
So could they be setting a precedent come Monday? You
67
00:03:50.689 --> 00:03:52.240
say this could happen again.
68
00:03:52.250 --> 00:03:57.120
Yeah, unfortunately, I do feel that this is something that
69
00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:01.439
could and potentially will happen again. We have only in
70
00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.740
the last year, we've been seeing AI being used as
71
00:04:04.780 --> 00:04:09.819
a vulnerability scanner. So looking for vulnerabilities within websites. Cryptocurrencies
72
00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:16.399
are notoriously targeted by financially motivated criminals. And of course, cyber, sorry,
73
00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:20.579
cryptocurrency exchanges have a huge amount of money. So it's
74
00:04:20.660 --> 00:04:23.980
extremely exciting for those criminals to target them. On top
75
00:04:24.019 --> 00:04:27.680
of that, state sponsored attackers will not stop at anything.
76
00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:31.980
They may attempt once and not get through, but they
77
00:04:32.019 --> 00:04:34.399
don't stop. They look through the list of employees. They
78
00:04:34.420 --> 00:04:37.920
look at all the possible entries. And unfortunately, with that
79
00:04:37.959 --> 00:04:42.620
relentlessness that they have, plus the sophistication that's continuing to grow,
80
00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.439
they're just going to carry on and potentially do this
81
00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:46.279
time and time again.
82
00:04:46.779 --> 00:04:49.319
But tell me one thing, Jake, can those stolen assets
83
00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.560
actually be traced and recovered?
84
00:04:53.709 --> 00:04:57.170
Yeah, so tracing is a difficult thing. So yes, cryptocurrency
85
00:04:57.430 --> 00:05:00.870
is often highly traceable. You can follow the trail of it.
86
00:05:01.370 --> 00:05:05.730
But unfortunately, you can't always see who owns it. It
87
00:05:05.790 --> 00:05:08.709
takes a long time to follow it. And criminals do
88
00:05:08.810 --> 00:05:12.680
what is called washing when they will change from, say,
89
00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:15.540
crypto into Ethereum and then back again and change it
90
00:05:15.579 --> 00:05:18.600
from one exchange to another. And that's to try and
91
00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:21.579
kill that trail. But there are often breadcrumbs that are
92
00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:26.379
still left there for police forces and government officials to
93
00:05:26.420 --> 00:05:28.680
go and trace. And then what they're trying to do
94
00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:31.810
is see when it turns into dollars or sterling. And
95
00:05:31.870 --> 00:05:34.610
that's when they can then pounce and try and grab
96
00:05:34.850 --> 00:05:38.740
who's actually been using them. But unfortunately, again, we're talking
97
00:05:38.779 --> 00:05:42.079
about very well-sophisticated criminals who know exactly how to do
98
00:05:42.139 --> 00:05:44.699
that washing service. So if they've got all that money,
99
00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:47.019
it looks like they've got away with a lot of
100
00:05:47.100 --> 00:05:50.540
cash here, then they'll be able to use it ultimately
101
00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:52.920
at the end of this. And so I don't think
102
00:05:52.939 --> 00:05:56.439
we'll be putting people behind bars. Unfortunately, that's just how
103
00:05:56.490 --> 00:05:57.449
cryptocurrency works.
104
00:05:58.149 --> 00:06:00.129
And why, according to the FBI, does it look like
105
00:06:00.310 --> 00:06:03.889
those sophisticated individuals are based in North Korea?
106
00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:10.019
So they say that they've got this evidence that points
107
00:06:10.060 --> 00:06:14.779
towards this trader-traitor group, which are also called the Lazarus Group.
108
00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:16.819
That's another name for them, who have been known for
109
00:06:17.370 --> 00:06:19.790
quite a few hacks. If we go back to 2014,
110
00:06:19.790 --> 00:06:24.829
when the Sony group was targeted for a few reasons...
111
00:06:24.980 --> 00:06:28.500
They seem to follow the same processes. So social engineering,
112
00:06:28.550 --> 00:06:31.089
when they're targeting humans and the way that they're trying
113
00:06:31.129 --> 00:06:35.149
to get into those systems, they leave their own breadcrumbs
114
00:06:35.209 --> 00:06:37.750
into showing who may be behind them. But this is
115
00:06:37.790 --> 00:06:40.990
only a group. So we tend to know groups rather
116
00:06:41.029 --> 00:06:43.750
than individuals. So we can't really go and unfortunately arrest
117
00:06:43.810 --> 00:06:47.389
anyone for this. It's just it's highlighting the countries and
118
00:06:47.430 --> 00:06:50.930
highlighting who's backing them. But it's all about evidence. And
119
00:06:50.970 --> 00:06:54.089
we all know that when it comes to cybercrime, unfortunately,
120
00:06:54.500 --> 00:06:57.480
We never seem to have that gold evidence that really
121
00:06:57.540 --> 00:07:02.290
puts people away. And it's such a difficult crime to investigate.
122
00:07:02.750 --> 00:07:06.269
Resources are often very low and it's very costly to
123
00:07:06.310 --> 00:07:06.709
do so.
124
00:07:07.709 --> 00:07:10.420
Cybersecurity advisor Jake Moore, thank you very much for chiming in.
125
00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:12.100
Thank you.
1
00:00:00.430 --> 00:00:03.259
People can finally get their money out of Binance again,
2
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.629
three days after the biggest crypto heist in history. The
3
00:00:06.650 --> 00:00:11.669
world's largest cryptocurrency exchange began restoring withdrawals Sunday, starting with Bitcoin.
4
00:00:12.050 --> 00:00:16.070
Binance says it has covered about 95% of the losses
5
00:00:16.149 --> 00:00:19.870
from its reserves, a claim that hasn't been independently verified.
6
00:00:20.410 --> 00:00:24.589
The FBI has attributed the theft of more than $ 6
7
00:00:23.670 --> 00:00:27.910
billion to North Korea. Investigators say the attack was carried
8
00:00:27.969 --> 00:00:31.589
out by a state-backed hacking group known as Trader Trader.
9
00:00:34.979 --> 00:00:38.460
Jake Moore is global cybersecurity advisor for the IT security
10
00:00:38.500 --> 00:00:43.149
company ESET. With the resumption of withdrawals, Binance has seen
11
00:00:43.270 --> 00:00:48.130
net outflows of some $ 3. 5 billion. That's only 2% of
12
00:00:48.170 --> 00:00:51.509
total assets under its management. But how substantial would you
13
00:00:51.549 --> 00:00:52.149
say that is?
14
00:00:54.210 --> 00:00:56.369
Yeah, this is huge. This is going to hurt them
15
00:00:57.189 --> 00:01:01.560
in values of trust. and looking at the future. And unfortunately,
16
00:01:01.740 --> 00:01:03.640
with something like this, when it happens, it rocks the
17
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:07.099
boat across the world in finance, but also those customers
18
00:01:07.530 --> 00:01:10.349
wondering if what they've got is safe in the future.
19
00:01:10.769 --> 00:01:13.569
So it is the biggest heist so far that we've seen.
20
00:01:13.590 --> 00:01:18.489
I mean, stealing over $ 6 billion in one go in
21
00:01:18.689 --> 00:01:21.290
only 20 minutes is huge. But if we look to
22
00:01:21.310 --> 00:01:23.890
the future, this may well be something that is seen
23
00:01:23.930 --> 00:01:27.469
as small because no doubt something like this will happen
24
00:01:27.510 --> 00:01:30.930
again because we just have the relentlessness of these cyber
25
00:01:30.969 --> 00:01:34.930
criminals who are able to, unfortunately, attack with such sophistication.
26
00:01:36.090 --> 00:01:39.450
Jake, what's it say about the company when Binance says
27
00:01:39.510 --> 00:01:42.890
it's able to cover 95% of the stolen tokens within
28
00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:43.689
just a few days?
29
00:01:45.709 --> 00:01:48.519
Well, they have a huge amount of money and they've
30
00:01:48.530 --> 00:01:50.840
got to look at this in the bigger picture. If
31
00:01:50.939 --> 00:01:55.379
they don't recover all that money for those people that
32
00:01:55.420 --> 00:01:59.040
have lost all their money invested and in storage there,
33
00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:01.379
then they just won't get those people to trust them
34
00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:04.319
in the future. So they have to take this on
35
00:02:04.379 --> 00:02:06.760
the chin. And fortunately, that's something that they have to do.
36
00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.340
It would have been a very difficult few hours and
37
00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:12.560
few days for them to come to that arrangement. But
38
00:02:12.590 --> 00:02:16.409
it's something to protect them and their future. And hopefully
39
00:02:16.449 --> 00:02:19.530
that can protect crypto's future because it's definitely thrown some
40
00:02:19.569 --> 00:02:24.229
uncertainty across anyone who's got crypto currencies in the world
41
00:02:24.509 --> 00:02:26.569
and how they store them and how they spread them
42
00:02:26.629 --> 00:02:27.650
to minimize that risk.
43
00:02:28.509 --> 00:02:32.080
Talking about certainty or uncertainty, I mean, we haven't been
44
00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:36.419
able to verify independently this claim that they've covered 95%
45
00:02:36.419 --> 00:02:39.750
of losses from its reserves. It's publishing a proof of
46
00:02:39.810 --> 00:02:42.490
reserves report Monday. Your expectations?
47
00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:46.439
Yeah, so this will be very interesting. We've never seen
48
00:02:46.460 --> 00:02:49.560
anything like this in these numbers. They're looking at preparing,
49
00:02:49.580 --> 00:02:52.400
like you say, the proof of reserves tomorrow. That'll be
50
00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:56.259
very interesting. They're saying they're going to absorb the losses
51
00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:58.599
rather than pass them on to customers. So this is
52
00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:00.659
something that I think we need to be looking at closely,
53
00:03:00.699 --> 00:03:05.250
but others will be other ways and other companies, other
54
00:03:05.270 --> 00:03:07.870
exchanges will be looking at as well. But it's also
55
00:03:08.090 --> 00:03:11.009
about making sure that they are able to better protect
56
00:03:11.030 --> 00:03:14.569
customers their finances in the future, because we're looking at
57
00:03:14.750 --> 00:03:18.479
now more than one specific point of entry, but multiple
58
00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:22.330
points of entry mean more risk to them. I know
59
00:03:22.389 --> 00:03:27.889
that we are talking very sophisticated ways of targeting the company,
60
00:03:28.189 --> 00:03:31.069
but they still were able to be breached. And this
61
00:03:31.150 --> 00:03:34.370
is where we're talking about hacking humans and the operations
62
00:03:34.409 --> 00:03:37.590
and the systems that they have as well. So they'll
63
00:03:37.610 --> 00:03:40.650
be looking at so much to protect them and their futures.
64
00:03:40.930 --> 00:03:44.090
In the meantime, try and absorb those costs, make people
65
00:03:44.409 --> 00:03:46.990
at least feel confident, and then we can move forward.
66
00:03:47.629 --> 00:03:50.629
So could they be setting a precedent come Monday? You
67
00:03:50.689 --> 00:03:52.240
say this could happen again.
68
00:03:52.250 --> 00:03:57.120
Yeah, unfortunately, I do feel that this is something that
69
00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:01.439
could and potentially will happen again. We have only in
70
00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.740
the last year, we've been seeing AI being used as
71
00:04:04.780 --> 00:04:09.819
a vulnerability scanner. So looking for vulnerabilities within websites. Cryptocurrencies
72
00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:16.399
are notoriously targeted by financially motivated criminals. And of course, cyber, sorry,
73
00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:20.579
cryptocurrency exchanges have a huge amount of money. So it's
74
00:04:20.660 --> 00:04:23.980
extremely exciting for those criminals to target them. On top
75
00:04:24.019 --> 00:04:27.680
of that, state sponsored attackers will not stop at anything.
76
00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:31.980
They may attempt once and not get through, but they
77
00:04:32.019 --> 00:04:34.399
don't stop. They look through the list of employees. They
78
00:04:34.420 --> 00:04:37.920
look at all the possible entries. And unfortunately, with that
79
00:04:37.959 --> 00:04:42.620
relentlessness that they have, plus the sophistication that's continuing to grow,
80
00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.439
they're just going to carry on and potentially do this
81
00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:46.279
time and time again.
82
00:04:46.779 --> 00:04:49.319
But tell me one thing, Jake, can those stolen assets
83
00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.560
actually be traced and recovered?
84
00:04:53.709 --> 00:04:57.170
Yeah, so tracing is a difficult thing. So yes, cryptocurrency
85
00:04:57.430 --> 00:05:00.870
is often highly traceable. You can follow the trail of it.
86
00:05:01.370 --> 00:05:05.730
But unfortunately, you can't always see who owns it. It
87
00:05:05.790 --> 00:05:08.709
takes a long time to follow it. And criminals do
88
00:05:08.810 --> 00:05:12.680
what is called washing when they will change from, say,
89
00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:15.540
crypto into Ethereum and then back again and change it
90
00:05:15.579 --> 00:05:18.600
from one exchange to another. And that's to try and
91
00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:21.579
kill that trail. But there are often breadcrumbs that are
92
00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:26.379
still left there for police forces and government officials to
93
00:05:26.420 --> 00:05:28.680
go and trace. And then what they're trying to do
94
00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:31.810
is see when it turns into dollars or sterling. And
95
00:05:31.870 --> 00:05:34.610
that's when they can then pounce and try and grab
96
00:05:34.850 --> 00:05:38.740
who's actually been using them. But unfortunately, again, we're talking
97
00:05:38.779 --> 00:05:42.079
about very well-sophisticated criminals who know exactly how to do
98
00:05:42.139 --> 00:05:44.699
that washing service. So if they've got all that money,
99
00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:47.019
it looks like they've got away with a lot of
100
00:05:47.100 --> 00:05:50.540
cash here, then they'll be able to use it ultimately
101
00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:52.920
at the end of this. And so I don't think
102
00:05:52.939 --> 00:05:56.439
we'll be putting people behind bars. Unfortunately, that's just how
103
00:05:56.490 --> 00:05:57.449
cryptocurrency works.
104
00:05:58.149 --> 00:06:00.129
And why, according to the FBI, does it look like
105
00:06:00.310 --> 00:06:03.889
those sophisticated individuals are based in North Korea?
106
00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:10.019
So they say that they've got this evidence that points
107
00:06:10.060 --> 00:06:14.779
towards this trader-traitor group, which are also called the Lazarus Group.
108
00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:16.819
That's another name for them, who have been known for
109
00:06:17.370 --> 00:06:19.790
quite a few hacks. If we go back to 2014,
110
00:06:19.790 --> 00:06:24.829
when the Sony group was targeted for a few reasons...
111
00:06:24.980 --> 00:06:28.500
They seem to follow the same processes. So social engineering,
112
00:06:28.550 --> 00:06:31.089
when they're targeting humans and the way that they're trying
113
00:06:31.129 --> 00:06:35.149
to get into those systems, they leave their own breadcrumbs
114
00:06:35.209 --> 00:06:37.750
into showing who may be behind them. But this is
115
00:06:37.790 --> 00:06:40.990
only a group. So we tend to know groups rather
116
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than individuals. So we can't really go and unfortunately arrest
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anyone for this. It's just it's highlighting the countries and
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highlighting who's backing them. But it's all about evidence. And
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we all know that when it comes to cybercrime, unfortunately,
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We never seem to have that gold evidence that really
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puts people away. And it's such a difficult crime to investigate.
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Resources are often very low and it's very costly to
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do so.
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Cybersecurity advisor Jake Moore, thank you very much for chiming in.
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Thank you.
