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Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is Gymiferson.
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I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
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those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
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to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this
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show five four three two one our folks, Welcome back
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to the podcast. I'm very excited to have as my
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guest today, Cedric Bertelli. Cedric, welcome, thank you very much,
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very happy to be here.
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Thank you awesome.
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Cedric is a founder of Emotional Health Institute and co
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developer of Emotional Resolution, a body based method designed to
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resolving debilitating emotional patterns by working with introception and the
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brain's predictive mechanisms. His work bridges clinical practice, neuroscience, and philosophy,
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and is currently being studied in collaboration with the UCLA
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in research on anxiety among healthcare workers. He's also sought
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after speaker and educator, recently named the number one audience
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choice speaker at the twenty twenty twenty five Super Trauma Conference.
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Wow all right, Cedric, welcome. Before we get going, share
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with the listeners where you're from originally and where you
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are currently.
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Yeah. So originally I'm from friends, so that's the accent.
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I apologize. And I've been living in the Bay Area
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for about twenty years, over ten three years, so I'm
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in Oakland, California.
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Okay, awesome, all right, so let's go back. How does
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this begin for you?
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Well, how it begins, shorter version will be. I was
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a very anxious child and later on a quite anxious adult.
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I started my career in hospitality business. I was a
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chef at first, then went to work for the Ritz
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Carton Company, first as a chef, then as a metal
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hotel director of restaurant, director of banquets. Learned to manage
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my anxiety very well, how with alcohol, Okay, okay, that works.
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We have alcohol and other metadology. And at some point
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it didn't work anymore. I mean, you know, it wasn't
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obviously healthy for me, and and it was it was
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kind of a hurricane constantly in me, even if you
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didn't show all outside inside was it was a bit
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of a disaster and a tual diveral things. Alcohol, of course,
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of course, I should say, of course, but that's in
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the business that I was. It was available and and
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and seen as okay, psychotherapy, et cetera. And it didn't.
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It didn't It wasn't clicking for me because I couldn't
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keep on managing something that kept on hurting me constantly.
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So this is when I decided to quit in two
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thousand and eight and went to France, went back to
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France actually and learning sol learning somatic therapy. And what
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has been in my mind since the beginning is I
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growing up. I was raised by my parents, and my
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grandfather was a World War two veteran and it went
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through immense trauma himself, and I was always wondering how
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people like him and people of his generation could tap
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into resilience and building a brain new life for their
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family without having any kind of personal help. So that
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always was in my mind, Right, Why do I struggle
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so much from my emotions when I did not leave
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any trauma that I can remember, and people who leave
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so much trauma are able to be as resilient as
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my grandfather was b was. So it was something in
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my mind, something, something, something I didn't get. What is
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it that's not clicking in me that allowed me to
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become resilient so to speak? And this is how I
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got into into researching somatic therapy and and so on
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and so on.
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So the bridge between you being a chef working at
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the Ritz Carlton experiencing anxiety, he moved back to France,
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you said, and started studying. So you started studying somatic
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therapy or psychology because you had been experiencing so much anxiety.
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Correct, because because it was it was at first it
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was just to find a better solution for me, and
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also to be honest. Working at the RIDS, I had
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an opportunity to manage a lot of people. I had
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a team of two hudred and fifty people. And you
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could see that if you don't manage people, you manage
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the emotions. Everybody come with a load of emotions at
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work and you've got to take the time to understand
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the little bit what's going on in the life, what
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allowed them to be the best version of themselves at
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work as well. So as a manager, you constantly quote
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unquote manage people emotions so that they can be in
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an ecosystem that allowed them to thrive and to feel joy.
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So emotions always have been something that was quite fascinated about.
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So you start studying how does everything unfold, what happens,
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what do you start.
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Doing so, as I went back to France and I
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joined a research group of around somatic therapy.
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So I learned.
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I learned a specific modelity team that was studied by
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a gentleman in several of Frances called Jampa. And the
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the idea is quite simple at the beginning, which is
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when people feel an emotion, When they start feeling an
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emotion and they can put their attention into the physical
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sensation they're feeling, they can remain with the physical sensation
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they're feeling without interfering with the sensations whatsoever. So no breath,
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no stretching, nothing. At the end, after a few minutes,
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the sound sessions abate and what seems to happen is
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that the emotion that were suffering from is not coming back.
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So it started from this observation from Jean Paul reg
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nowadays jam is one of the people working with at
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the Emotional Health Institute. So we took this observation a
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plate of course on ourself and other people and started
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to understand what is happening. I will keep the shore
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the story short, but after practicing and refining this work
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from Saya in twenty nineteen, when I say we is myself,
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doctor Jacqueshimex, with gastro anthologists from the University of Young
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in France. We build the Emotional Health Institute to really
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understand what was happening in the brain in the body.
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That will explain this phenomenon of at the beginning of
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an emotion. If I'm able to keep my attention on
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my sen sessions with that interfering with them, the emotion
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doesn't come.
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Back at the beginning of an emotion.
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It's most important at the beginning.
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Right because I'm thinking someone's in the emotion. It can
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be very difficult to have that level of self awareness.
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Give us something. Okay, hang on before we get into
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the specific to this. So what I'm noticing here, Cedric
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is you went all in. You didn't just start studying somatic.
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You went all in. You started, and you started. You
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developed your own system. Explain that to me.
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I don't know if I can explain it. I think
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you you you start, I started falling into it. It's
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you know, okay, okay, if you look around, very so
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much misery, very so much misery, because people are trapped
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into a gel of fear. I would say we have
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so much fear instead of us, and we we isolate
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in our fear, and that cuts us from the connection
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of the world of each other. And isolation create pain,
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Pain create fear, fear create mayhem. And I could see
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it for me, I could see it for people around me, clients, family, friends.
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It became I started reading philosophy, people like Merlo Ponti
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in France or Spinosa, and trying to understand where all
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this pain was coming from, and how can we come
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back to a place where we're more connected and not
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so much self interested, right, healing for connection, not diving
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into the self self self self self and just getting
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getting obsessed by oneself instead of opening up to the world.
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So so yes, I got yeah, jump Adred and ten
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person into it.
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You can say that, yes, during this time, how were
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you doing personally? How is your anxiety?
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So I started really being interested in this work because
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my anxiety changed tremendously, Right. I went from being extremely stressed,
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a lot of self directed anger and depression to becoming
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more and more joyful, to not have to control my
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anxiety anymore. But that's it, that's the key, right, It
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really started when I didn't have to control my anxiety anymore.
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But I stopped feeling it when I was able to to.
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So it's not about not feeling emotions here, let's be precise.
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It's about being able to feel the emotions that are
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congruent with our current reality and not being overwhelmed by
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our fear. Is when I stop having to manage myself,
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control myself, finding copying mechanism to exist. That as saw
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that what we were diving in was most important and efficient.
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So at some point you founded the Emotional Health Institute two. Yet, okay,
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you are the co developer of emotional resolution. Let's dive
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into that. What is that?
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Okay, emotional resolution studied by the observe with the observation.
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As I said earlier, than if if we're able to
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get inside the emotion at the beginning of the emotion
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and feeling the physical sensations happening in the body until
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that dawn evolving at the end of the evolution, what
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we notice on the emotion we started with wasn't coming back.
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So how is that possible? Well, to keep it simple,
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it's a matter of prediction. Right. If you look at
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the work of Lisa and Van Barrett out of Boston
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and the principle of the prediction of the brain. Every
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debilitating emotional patterns, anxiety, depression, recurring fears, it is nothing
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else but an outdated prediction from the brain. I can
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explain why, in a nutshell we know today two things
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to have in mind when it comes to emotional difficulty is.
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Number one, the brain constantly predict. This is why before
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biting an up you know exactly what the apple is
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gonna taste like the brain constantly predict number one. Number two,
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we understand how a debilitated emotional pattern is created today.
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It is always the same type of event that creates
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an emotional difficulty pattern in our life. This event is
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what we're gonna call it trauma. And what is a trauma?
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A trauma is an instent that holds too much stress,
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physical or emotional for us to take on when we
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experience it. That's it. So a baby with barely born
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is going to experience something as a trauma. When forty
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years old, men will be completely relevant for therefore, for example, now,
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what's important as well to understand is what creates the
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pattern is not the trauma. It is the instent of
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dissociation happening within the trauma.
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That's more we'll repeat that again.
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What creates the pattern is not the trauma itself, it
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is they are the instant plural of dissociation happening during
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the traumatic event. Okay, so to go a bit more
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into it is, let's say that I'm being sexually abused
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for five minutes. I'm not going to see dissociate only once.
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I'm going to go in and out, in and out,
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in and out of consciousness. When the stress is too high,
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we dissociate so we do not suffer too much during
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this instant. Now, the amount of information that you and
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I are gathering currently consciously is about two thousand bits
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of information process at the speed of one hundred and
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fifteen miles per hour consciously subconsciously, when the prefunct or
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corotects shut down, you're subconscious as a capacity the ability
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to gather four hundred billion bits of information per seconds
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and to process it at this bit of one hundred
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and fifty thousand miles per hours. These are the numbers
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from the Penn University. They're from twenty twelve. But if
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you if you look at data, it's always the same realm.
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The realm is two thousand basically for conscious versus four
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hundred billion bits of information. Wow, from the subconscious. So
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what is happening is during this instant of dissociation, the
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preforntal contests shut down, so we don't suffer too much,
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but the subconscious takes over. So imagine vortex opening up outside,
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gathering all the information around you, the taste, the color,
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the general information, and the vortex up an inside gathering
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all the physical sensations, information from the physical sensation happening
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anybody during this instead of dissociation. So dissociation is inner
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and outside vortex is happening gathering all this information in
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a knowlogical, non inner way at a very high definition. Well,
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the go ahead, I was.
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Just gonna say. So, if I'm hearing you clearly, then
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we're still taking in information despite the fact that we're associating,
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but only on a subconscious level.
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Correct, we're taking all this information, but it is high definition,
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high speed, nonlinear knowlgical.
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Right.
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Wow, it's like we're pull of information nolinear no knowlogical.
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Later on, when our brain our body is exposed to
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one or several elements that were present during a specific dissociation,
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your brain, my brain is going to predict what physical
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sensations you're about to feel based on what you felt
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during this specific dissociative moment. Your brain is going to
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generate those physical sensations. We're going to call that an
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interceptive prediction. You know that you feel an emotion because
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you feel physical sensations. You know that you feel anxious
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because you have tension in your body that you conceptualize
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based on the context as anxiety. Same thing for anger,
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something for depression. We know that you feel a certain way.
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We know that we feel a certain way because we
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feel a certain way in our body. This is interception. Now,
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when the brain is exposed to one or several elements,
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it doesn't matter if you remember consciously what they are
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or not to elements that were presenting an install of association.
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As I said, your brain is going to generate physical sensations.
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Interception a prediction, those physical sensations that lets you know
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how you feel. Is nothing else but an nowdated prediction.
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So during an ameres an emotional resolution session, what we
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will get to do is to retrigger very specifically an
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emotion for a client. At the beginning, the body is
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going to generate this interceptive prediction the current is going
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to feel some physical sensations. Usually, when we feel physical
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sensations linked to an emotion or at the base of
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an emotion, we control them. We breathe with stretch, we
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talk ourselves out of the emotion. Here, we're going to
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do the reverse. We're going to bring our attention to
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the physical sensations in a specific way, and we're going
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to keep our attention active in feeling the physical sensations
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as they change in our body. That's gonna take between
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two seconds and ninety seconds, never more. An emotion never
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lasts longer longer than ninety seconds in the brain. If
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I can stay attentive to the physical sensations in my
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body without trying to breathe stretch changing anything happening within me,
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so to be precise, if I can give my physical
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sensations as they change in my body without interfering with them,
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in a safe environment, in a safe environment, at the
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end of this indictor receptive interceptive prediction that never lasts
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longer than ninety seconds, my brain is anticipating to be
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hit by some kind of danger exactly as it happened
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during a specific dissociative event. Dissociative event while during a session,
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nothing happens at the end, I am second sound all right?
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And and in that process, you're what interrupting the pattern.
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In that process, you're actually allowing the pattern to be
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completely replayed without interfering with it, without stopping it whatsoever.
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Okay, give me, give me, give me a specific give me,
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give me a specific example. Maybe I walk into your office.
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I'm anxious, I am, I do have anxiety. So I
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am an anxious person. I don't know from an anxious person,
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but I definitely do have anxiety. But if someone walks
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into your office, what do you do? How does this work? Yeah?
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Absolutely? So I will ask the person, if we could
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resolve anything within you today, what would that be? Okay,
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sh for me?
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Okay, I would say, I am very anxious about uh
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going to the dentist and getting a root canal.
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Okay, beautiful. That's very specific because here you're bringing a
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good point guy, which is we concept to as thing
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as anxiety. But the way that you feel when you
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go to the dentist and you call that anxiety might
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be very different from an anxiety that you feel before
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presenting in front of people or before meeting somebody new.
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So we've got to understand what specific anxiety we're resolving,
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because the label can be the same, but the feeding
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in the body might be very different. So here I
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understand that it's the anxiety that you feel when you
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have to get some dental work done perfect. That's going
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to be what we're going to be resolving today. At
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this point, I would ask you for a specific time
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when you fail this fear. Nothing traumatic. We never work
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with trauma in emerates. There's no point in revisiting any
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trauma because within a traumatic event, chances are your several dissociations.
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We always work with the way that the person is
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fitting today. We never talk about trauma in emotional resolution.
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So we'll ask you a moment when you fail this anxiety.
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Not because it went wrong at the dentist, No, no,
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I don't even want to know about that. I want
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to know a moment when you experien the anxiety that
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you don't want to feel anymore. And you will find
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a situation when you fail this anxiety that you don't
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want to feel anymore, and I will help you to
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replay that moment to relieve this moment when you fail
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the anxiety. We will relieve it together in a specific way.
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Your body will generate the same physical sensation that you
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feel usually when you feel this anxiety. At this point,
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I will support you to move all your attention on
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your body, on your physical sensations. You can have to
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feel several physical sensations at once, because if you only
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feel one sensation, the main one, it's not going to work.
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Your brain is going to hyperfocus, the sensation will probably
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increase and you will try to control it. So I
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will I will help you to feel several sensations at
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once and to do nothing with it, to just be attentive.
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Those sound sessions are going to move, they're going to change.
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It's important for me or for you to do nothing
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about it. They will evolve for about two to ninety
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seconds and at the end you will feel calm. We
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will check together that this type of event of event
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do not trigger those sound sessions anymore. They won't. And
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then I will ask you when you have to go
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see a doctor a dentist. The next time you say, well,
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i'll see one in two weeks. Then as meeting three
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weeks to make sure that it's gone, it will be gone.
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Wow Wow, and that's very specific, but it can be
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also for depression, it be for it can be for
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a latent anxiety. Right, it's we always take the person
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currently doing work with survivor of human trafficking in Africa
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and the impact of the work is beautiful. We also
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did a research for you CLA on physicians and nurses
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having high level of anxiety, being close to burnout and
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working in a very stressful environment comparing MREs to another modality,
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and you can see very clearly the study is going
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to be published by the end of the year. You
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can see very very clearly how the anxiety level tremendously
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go down working with emreates.
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So how does this How does the amress differ from say,
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other modalities.
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So it depends on modality we're talking about. But I
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think a couple of things. With emress we do not manage,
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we resolve. So the goal is reach to resolve an
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emotional difficulty. Then somebody is identifying so that the emotion
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doesn't come back anymore. With emress, we work on three
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levels of emotions conscious which is why people come to
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see us, you and me. For example, the depression and
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the anxiety. Things that are chronicote in our face, so
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that a conscious emotion for me. We work on unconscious emotion,
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which is more the emotion that we know are there
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but we don't want to look at so much because
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they don't fit very much with who we want to
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be in the world or who want the world to see.
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So these are the shame, the guilt, the self image emotions,
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et cetera. And we also work on subconscious emotions. Subconscious
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emotions so emotions that do not have a label because
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the sound sessions are not strong enough to be conceptualized,
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but the tensions and the body. So one other thing
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with MRS is we're going to work on those three
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levels of emotion. Another thing which differ with other more
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than it is is we never talk about the trauma.
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We don't need to know what the trauma was, and
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the person doesn't have to talk about a traumatic event
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in order to resumve. And another thing is we keep
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things very simple, like there is not a lot of theory.
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It's very pragmatic, very efficient, and it's extremely flexible in
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the way that therapists can use it within the practice. Coaches, etra,
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professional cops, et cetera, et cetera. Is very flexible.
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In terms of, you know, for example, not needing to
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talk about the trauma. There's varying you know, opinions on
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to what degree that is useful within the treatment of trauma.
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Why do you feel it's not useful especially useful, or
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helpful or necessary?
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There are several several reasons for that. One one of
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the main things that I say is trauma cannot be
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healed because trauma happened and there's nothing we can do
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about it. However, what can be healed other wounds than
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this trauma created in our life? And this is what
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we do with emers. When we talk about the trauma,
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we make it more real, we give it more more important,
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we give you more importance in our life. In in
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some cases we can become more attached to it as well.
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Give me one sure, sure we can, we can pass here.
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Yeah, thank you very much. Okay, yes, we as sorry.
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I'm an invocation with my family in a hotel and
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I asked for like check out and they get the
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new oop I cannot hear you?
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Sorry about that? I said, Yeah, no worries. We can
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just easily edit this out. Okay, so continue, Yeah, so.
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We we we we don't go into the trauma because
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we don't want we don't want to make it more real.
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We don't want people to we don't want the client
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to be focusing on the trauma, but focusing on what
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is it currently in the life that they need to
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be shifted in order for them to feel more peace
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h And as as I mentioned earlier as well, often
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within the traumatic event, the person is going to experience
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several dissociations mm hm and and what creates the pattern
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all the dissociative the wind of the dissociation within the trauma.
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So talking about the trauma as as as the event
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is not going to be conductive in resolving the wounds
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and this trauma created. That's one of the few reasons.
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And there is more. Maybe we don't need to go
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into that.
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Okay, So as we kind of wind in down here,
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the Emotional Health Institute, you folks offer trainings, correct for whom?
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What do the trainings look like, how are they accessed,
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et cetera.
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So we are offering training on emotional resolution, and we're
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offering them to therapists, coaches, behavioral specialists, shop professionals, cups, firemen,
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whoever is working with people dealing with emotional difficulties. So
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it's it's very wide. We are offering the trainings.
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Go ahead again, No no, no, I'm just I'm just listening.
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Go ahead.
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We're offering the training on zoom. People can take it
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from all over the world really and we keep the
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training as compact as we can. So the whole certification
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process is about about five days. So three days be
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where we teach the base of the training, the base
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of MREs with the main the two main protocols. Then
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people have to experience in the practice. Then we have
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a module two or we call Module two, where we
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do case studies to notice what work but it don't
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work and navigate the difficulty. Then we have Module three
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which is two days and we do of course some navigating,
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some case studies, but also how to resolve are to
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resolve unconscious, unconscious feels, unconscious emotions. And then there is
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a certification process which is reviewing a session that a
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participant that's done, supervising the session and giving more tools.
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EMRESS is not just a protocol or two, it's a methodology.
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We develop several tools that allow to work with different people,
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different difficulties. So it's it's very it's very flexible and
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extremely efficient.
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Now is this for UH mental health therapists only?
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No, no, no, h. Professionals can come as well. Coaches
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come as well, very often, yoga teachers we have you
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goat teachers as well because emotion comes up in yoga.
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Mustache therapists is very very wide. So we have people
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from HR, we have therapists, we have coaches, et cetera,
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et cetera.
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Wow. Wow, well, okay, all right, Cedric, I think you
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didn't really good job of articulating what this does and
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how this is different from other modalities. How do people
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learn more about you? What's the best way?
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The best way is to go to Emotional Health Institute
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dot org or m REST dot com.
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Okay, we'll have our linked appear at the show notes
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page at the Trauma Therapist Podcast dot com. All right, Cedric,
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I appreciate you, Thank you very much. All Right, we'll
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be we'll be in touch.
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Take care,
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Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is Gymiferson.
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I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
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those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
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to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this
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show five four three two one our folks, Welcome back
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to the podcast. I'm very excited to have as my
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guest today, Cedric Bertelli. Cedric, welcome, thank you very much,
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very happy to be here.
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Thank you awesome.
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Cedric is a founder of Emotional Health Institute and co
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developer of Emotional Resolution, a body based method designed to
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resolving debilitating emotional patterns by working with introception and the
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brain's predictive mechanisms. His work bridges clinical practice, neuroscience, and philosophy,
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and is currently being studied in collaboration with the UCLA
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in research on anxiety among healthcare workers. He's also sought
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after speaker and educator, recently named the number one audience
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choice speaker at the twenty twenty twenty five Super Trauma Conference.
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Wow all right, Cedric, welcome. Before we get going, share
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with the listeners where you're from originally and where you
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are currently.
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Yeah. So originally I'm from friends, so that's the accent.
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I apologize. And I've been living in the Bay Area
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for about twenty years, over ten three years, so I'm
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in Oakland, California.
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Okay, awesome, all right, so let's go back. How does
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this begin for you?
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Well, how it begins, shorter version will be. I was
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a very anxious child and later on a quite anxious adult.
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I started my career in hospitality business. I was a
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chef at first, then went to work for the Ritz
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Carton Company, first as a chef, then as a metal
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hotel director of restaurant, director of banquets. Learned to manage
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my anxiety very well, how with alcohol, Okay, okay, that works.
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We have alcohol and other metadology. And at some point
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it didn't work anymore. I mean, you know, it wasn't
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obviously healthy for me, and and it was it was
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kind of a hurricane constantly in me, even if you
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didn't show all outside inside was it was a bit
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of a disaster and a tual diveral things. Alcohol, of course,
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of course, I should say, of course, but that's in
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the business that I was. It was available and and
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and seen as okay, psychotherapy, et cetera. And it didn't.
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It didn't It wasn't clicking for me because I couldn't
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keep on managing something that kept on hurting me constantly.
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So this is when I decided to quit in two
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thousand and eight and went to France, went back to
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France actually and learning sol learning somatic therapy. And what
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has been in my mind since the beginning is I
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growing up. I was raised by my parents, and my
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grandfather was a World War two veteran and it went
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through immense trauma himself, and I was always wondering how
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people like him and people of his generation could tap
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into resilience and building a brain new life for their
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family without having any kind of personal help. So that
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always was in my mind, Right, Why do I struggle
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so much from my emotions when I did not leave
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any trauma that I can remember, and people who leave
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so much trauma are able to be as resilient as
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my grandfather was b was. So it was something in
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my mind, something, something, something I didn't get. What is
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it that's not clicking in me that allowed me to
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become resilient so to speak? And this is how I
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got into into researching somatic therapy and and so on
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and so on.
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So the bridge between you being a chef working at
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the Ritz Carlton experiencing anxiety, he moved back to France,
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you said, and started studying. So you started studying somatic
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therapy or psychology because you had been experiencing so much anxiety.
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Correct, because because it was it was at first it
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was just to find a better solution for me, and
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also to be honest. Working at the RIDS, I had
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an opportunity to manage a lot of people. I had
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a team of two hudred and fifty people. And you
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could see that if you don't manage people, you manage
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the emotions. Everybody come with a load of emotions at
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work and you've got to take the time to understand
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the little bit what's going on in the life, what
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allowed them to be the best version of themselves at
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work as well. So as a manager, you constantly quote
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unquote manage people emotions so that they can be in
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an ecosystem that allowed them to thrive and to feel joy.
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So emotions always have been something that was quite fascinated about.
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So you start studying how does everything unfold, what happens,
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what do you start.
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Doing so, as I went back to France and I
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joined a research group of around somatic therapy.
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So I learned.
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I learned a specific modelity team that was studied by
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a gentleman in several of Frances called Jampa. And the
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the idea is quite simple at the beginning, which is
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when people feel an emotion, When they start feeling an
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emotion and they can put their attention into the physical
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sensation they're feeling, they can remain with the physical sensation
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they're feeling without interfering with the sensations whatsoever. So no breath,
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no stretching, nothing. At the end, after a few minutes,
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the sound sessions abate and what seems to happen is
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that the emotion that were suffering from is not coming back.
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So it started from this observation from Jean Paul reg
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nowadays jam is one of the people working with at
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the Emotional Health Institute. So we took this observation a
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plate of course on ourself and other people and started
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to understand what is happening. I will keep the shore
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the story short, but after practicing and refining this work
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from Saya in twenty nineteen, when I say we is myself,
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doctor Jacqueshimex, with gastro anthologists from the University of Young
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in France. We build the Emotional Health Institute to really
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understand what was happening in the brain in the body.
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That will explain this phenomenon of at the beginning of
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an emotion. If I'm able to keep my attention on
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my sen sessions with that interfering with them, the emotion
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doesn't come.
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Back at the beginning of an emotion.
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It's most important at the beginning.
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Right because I'm thinking someone's in the emotion. It can
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be very difficult to have that level of self awareness.
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Give us something. Okay, hang on before we get into
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the specific to this. So what I'm noticing here, Cedric
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is you went all in. You didn't just start studying somatic.
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You went all in. You started, and you started. You
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developed your own system. Explain that to me.
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I don't know if I can explain it. I think
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you you you start, I started falling into it. It's
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you know, okay, okay, if you look around, very so
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much misery, very so much misery, because people are trapped
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into a gel of fear. I would say we have
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so much fear instead of us, and we we isolate
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in our fear, and that cuts us from the connection
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of the world of each other. And isolation create pain,
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Pain create fear, fear create mayhem. And I could see
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it for me, I could see it for people around me, clients, family, friends.
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It became I started reading philosophy, people like Merlo Ponti
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in France or Spinosa, and trying to understand where all
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this pain was coming from, and how can we come
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back to a place where we're more connected and not
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so much self interested, right, healing for connection, not diving
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into the self self self self self and just getting
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getting obsessed by oneself instead of opening up to the world.
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So so yes, I got yeah, jump Adred and ten
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person into it.
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You can say that, yes, during this time, how were
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you doing personally? How is your anxiety?
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So I started really being interested in this work because
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my anxiety changed tremendously, Right. I went from being extremely stressed,
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a lot of self directed anger and depression to becoming
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more and more joyful, to not have to control my
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anxiety anymore. But that's it, that's the key, right, It
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really started when I didn't have to control my anxiety anymore.
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But I stopped feeling it when I was able to to.
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So it's not about not feeling emotions here, let's be precise.
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It's about being able to feel the emotions that are
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congruent with our current reality and not being overwhelmed by
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our fear. Is when I stop having to manage myself,
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control myself, finding copying mechanism to exist. That as saw
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that what we were diving in was most important and efficient.
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So at some point you founded the Emotional Health Institute two. Yet, okay,
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you are the co developer of emotional resolution. Let's dive
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into that. What is that?
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Okay, emotional resolution studied by the observe with the observation.
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As I said earlier, than if if we're able to
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get inside the emotion at the beginning of the emotion
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and feeling the physical sensations happening in the body until
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that dawn evolving at the end of the evolution, what
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we notice on the emotion we started with wasn't coming back.
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So how is that possible? Well, to keep it simple,
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it's a matter of prediction. Right. If you look at
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the work of Lisa and Van Barrett out of Boston
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and the principle of the prediction of the brain. Every
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debilitating emotional patterns, anxiety, depression, recurring fears, it is nothing
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else but an outdated prediction from the brain. I can
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explain why, in a nutshell we know today two things
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to have in mind when it comes to emotional difficulty is.
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Number one, the brain constantly predict. This is why before
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biting an up you know exactly what the apple is
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gonna taste like the brain constantly predict number one. Number two,
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we understand how a debilitated emotional pattern is created today.
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It is always the same type of event that creates
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an emotional difficulty pattern in our life. This event is
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what we're gonna call it trauma. And what is a trauma?
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A trauma is an instent that holds too much stress,
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physical or emotional for us to take on when we
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experience it. That's it. So a baby with barely born
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is going to experience something as a trauma. When forty
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years old, men will be completely relevant for therefore, for example, now,
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what's important as well to understand is what creates the
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pattern is not the trauma. It is the instent of
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dissociation happening within the trauma.
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That's more we'll repeat that again.
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What creates the pattern is not the trauma itself, it
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is they are the instant plural of dissociation happening during
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the traumatic event. Okay, so to go a bit more
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into it is, let's say that I'm being sexually abused
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for five minutes. I'm not going to see dissociate only once.
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I'm going to go in and out, in and out,
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in and out of consciousness. When the stress is too high,
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we dissociate so we do not suffer too much during
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this instant. Now, the amount of information that you and
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I are gathering currently consciously is about two thousand bits
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of information process at the speed of one hundred and
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fifteen miles per hour consciously subconsciously, when the prefunct or
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corotects shut down, you're subconscious as a capacity the ability
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to gather four hundred billion bits of information per seconds
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and to process it at this bit of one hundred
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and fifty thousand miles per hours. These are the numbers
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from the Penn University. They're from twenty twelve. But if
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you if you look at data, it's always the same realm.
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The realm is two thousand basically for conscious versus four
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hundred billion bits of information. Wow, from the subconscious. So
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what is happening is during this instant of dissociation, the
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preforntal contests shut down, so we don't suffer too much,
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but the subconscious takes over. So imagine vortex opening up outside,
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gathering all the information around you, the taste, the color,
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the general information, and the vortex up an inside gathering
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all the physical sensations, information from the physical sensation happening
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anybody during this instead of dissociation. So dissociation is inner
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and outside vortex is happening gathering all this information in
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a knowlogical, non inner way at a very high definition. Well,
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the go ahead, I was.
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Just gonna say. So, if I'm hearing you clearly, then
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we're still taking in information despite the fact that we're associating,
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but only on a subconscious level.
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Correct, we're taking all this information, but it is high definition,
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high speed, nonlinear knowlgical.
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Right.
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Wow, it's like we're pull of information nolinear no knowlogical.
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Later on, when our brain our body is exposed to
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one or several elements that were present during a specific dissociation,
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your brain, my brain is going to predict what physical
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sensations you're about to feel based on what you felt
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during this specific dissociative moment. Your brain is going to
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generate those physical sensations. We're going to call that an
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interceptive prediction. You know that you feel an emotion because
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you feel physical sensations. You know that you feel anxious
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because you have tension in your body that you conceptualize
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based on the context as anxiety. Same thing for anger,
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something for depression. We know that you feel a certain way.
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We know that we feel a certain way because we
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feel a certain way in our body. This is interception. Now,
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when the brain is exposed to one or several elements,
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it doesn't matter if you remember consciously what they are
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or not to elements that were presenting an install of association.
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As I said, your brain is going to generate physical sensations.
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Interception a prediction, those physical sensations that lets you know
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how you feel. Is nothing else but an nowdated prediction.
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So during an ameres an emotional resolution session, what we
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will get to do is to retrigger very specifically an
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emotion for a client. At the beginning, the body is
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going to generate this interceptive prediction the current is going
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to feel some physical sensations. Usually, when we feel physical
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sensations linked to an emotion or at the base of
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an emotion, we control them. We breathe with stretch, we
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talk ourselves out of the emotion. Here, we're going to
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do the reverse. We're going to bring our attention to
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the physical sensations in a specific way, and we're going
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to keep our attention active in feeling the physical sensations
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as they change in our body. That's gonna take between
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two seconds and ninety seconds, never more. An emotion never
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lasts longer longer than ninety seconds in the brain. If
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I can stay attentive to the physical sensations in my
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body without trying to breathe stretch changing anything happening within me,
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so to be precise, if I can give my physical
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sensations as they change in my body without interfering with them,
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in a safe environment, in a safe environment, at the
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end of this indictor receptive interceptive prediction that never lasts
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longer than ninety seconds, my brain is anticipating to be
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hit by some kind of danger exactly as it happened
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during a specific dissociative event. Dissociative event while during a session,
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nothing happens at the end, I am second sound all right?
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And and in that process, you're what interrupting the pattern.
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In that process, you're actually allowing the pattern to be
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completely replayed without interfering with it, without stopping it whatsoever.
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Okay, give me, give me, give me a specific give me,
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give me a specific example. Maybe I walk into your office.
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I'm anxious, I am, I do have anxiety. So I
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am an anxious person. I don't know from an anxious person,
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but I definitely do have anxiety. But if someone walks
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into your office, what do you do? How does this work? Yeah?
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Absolutely? So I will ask the person, if we could
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resolve anything within you today, what would that be? Okay,
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sh for me?
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Okay, I would say, I am very anxious about uh
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going to the dentist and getting a root canal.
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Okay, beautiful. That's very specific because here you're bringing a
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good point guy, which is we concept to as thing
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as anxiety. But the way that you feel when you
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go to the dentist and you call that anxiety might
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be very different from an anxiety that you feel before
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presenting in front of people or before meeting somebody new.
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So we've got to understand what specific anxiety we're resolving,
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because the label can be the same, but the feeding
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in the body might be very different. So here I
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understand that it's the anxiety that you feel when you
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have to get some dental work done perfect. That's going
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to be what we're going to be resolving today. At
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this point, I would ask you for a specific time
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when you fail this fear. Nothing traumatic. We never work
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with trauma in emerates. There's no point in revisiting any
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trauma because within a traumatic event, chances are your several dissociations.
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We always work with the way that the person is
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fitting today. We never talk about trauma in emotional resolution.
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So we'll ask you a moment when you fail this anxiety.
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Not because it went wrong at the dentist, No, no,
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I don't even want to know about that. I want
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to know a moment when you experien the anxiety that
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you don't want to feel anymore. And you will find
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a situation when you fail this anxiety that you don't
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want to feel anymore, and I will help you to
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replay that moment to relieve this moment when you fail
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the anxiety. We will relieve it together in a specific way.
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Your body will generate the same physical sensation that you
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feel usually when you feel this anxiety. At this point,
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I will support you to move all your attention on
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your body, on your physical sensations. You can have to
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feel several physical sensations at once, because if you only
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feel one sensation, the main one, it's not going to work.
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Your brain is going to hyperfocus, the sensation will probably
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increase and you will try to control it. So I
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will I will help you to feel several sensations at
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once and to do nothing with it, to just be attentive.
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Those sound sessions are going to move, they're going to change.
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It's important for me or for you to do nothing
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about it. They will evolve for about two to ninety
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seconds and at the end you will feel calm. We
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will check together that this type of event of event
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do not trigger those sound sessions anymore. They won't. And
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then I will ask you when you have to go
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see a doctor a dentist. The next time you say, well,
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i'll see one in two weeks. Then as meeting three
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weeks to make sure that it's gone, it will be gone.
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Wow Wow, and that's very specific, but it can be
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also for depression, it be for it can be for
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a latent anxiety. Right, it's we always take the person
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currently doing work with survivor of human trafficking in Africa
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and the impact of the work is beautiful. We also
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did a research for you CLA on physicians and nurses
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having high level of anxiety, being close to burnout and
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working in a very stressful environment comparing MREs to another modality,
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and you can see very clearly the study is going
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to be published by the end of the year. You
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can see very very clearly how the anxiety level tremendously
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go down working with emreates.
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So how does this How does the amress differ from say,
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other modalities.
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So it depends on modality we're talking about. But I
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think a couple of things. With emress we do not manage,
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we resolve. So the goal is reach to resolve an
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emotional difficulty. Then somebody is identifying so that the emotion
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doesn't come back anymore. With emress, we work on three
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levels of emotions conscious which is why people come to
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see us, you and me. For example, the depression and
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the anxiety. Things that are chronicote in our face, so
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that a conscious emotion for me. We work on unconscious emotion,
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which is more the emotion that we know are there
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but we don't want to look at so much because
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they don't fit very much with who we want to
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be in the world or who want the world to see.
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So these are the shame, the guilt, the self image emotions,
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et cetera. And we also work on subconscious emotions. Subconscious
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emotions so emotions that do not have a label because
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the sound sessions are not strong enough to be conceptualized,
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but the tensions and the body. So one other thing
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with MRS is we're going to work on those three
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levels of emotion. Another thing which differ with other more
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than it is is we never talk about the trauma.
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We don't need to know what the trauma was, and
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the person doesn't have to talk about a traumatic event
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in order to resumve. And another thing is we keep
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things very simple, like there is not a lot of theory.
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It's very pragmatic, very efficient, and it's extremely flexible in
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the way that therapists can use it within the practice. Coaches, etra,
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professional cops, et cetera, et cetera. Is very flexible.
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In terms of, you know, for example, not needing to
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talk about the trauma. There's varying you know, opinions on
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to what degree that is useful within the treatment of trauma.
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Why do you feel it's not useful especially useful, or
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helpful or necessary?
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There are several several reasons for that. One one of
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the main things that I say is trauma cannot be
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healed because trauma happened and there's nothing we can do
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about it. However, what can be healed other wounds than
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this trauma created in our life? And this is what
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we do with emers. When we talk about the trauma,
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we make it more real, we give it more more important,
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we give you more importance in our life. In in
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some cases we can become more attached to it as well.
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Give me one sure, sure we can, we can pass here.
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Yeah, thank you very much. Okay, yes, we as sorry.
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I'm an invocation with my family in a hotel and
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I asked for like check out and they get the
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new oop I cannot hear you?
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Sorry about that? I said, Yeah, no worries. We can
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just easily edit this out. Okay, so continue, Yeah, so.
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We we we we don't go into the trauma because
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we don't want we don't want to make it more real.
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We don't want people to we don't want the client
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to be focusing on the trauma, but focusing on what
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is it currently in the life that they need to
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be shifted in order for them to feel more peace
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h And as as I mentioned earlier as well, often
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within the traumatic event, the person is going to experience
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several dissociations mm hm and and what creates the pattern
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all the dissociative the wind of the dissociation within the trauma.
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So talking about the trauma as as as the event
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is not going to be conductive in resolving the wounds
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and this trauma created. That's one of the few reasons.
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And there is more. Maybe we don't need to go
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into that.
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Okay, So as we kind of wind in down here,
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the Emotional Health Institute, you folks offer trainings, correct for whom?
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What do the trainings look like, how are they accessed,
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et cetera.
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So we are offering training on emotional resolution, and we're
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offering them to therapists, coaches, behavioral specialists, shop professionals, cups, firemen,
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whoever is working with people dealing with emotional difficulties. So
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it's it's very wide. We are offering the trainings.
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Go ahead again, No no, no, I'm just I'm just listening.
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Go ahead.
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We're offering the training on zoom. People can take it
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from all over the world really and we keep the
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training as compact as we can. So the whole certification
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process is about about five days. So three days be
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where we teach the base of the training, the base
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of MREs with the main the two main protocols. Then
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people have to experience in the practice. Then we have
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a module two or we call Module two, where we
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do case studies to notice what work but it don't
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work and navigate the difficulty. Then we have Module three
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which is two days and we do of course some navigating,
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some case studies, but also how to resolve are to
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resolve unconscious, unconscious feels, unconscious emotions. And then there is
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a certification process which is reviewing a session that a
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participant that's done, supervising the session and giving more tools.
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EMRESS is not just a protocol or two, it's a methodology.
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We develop several tools that allow to work with different people,
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different difficulties. So it's it's very it's very flexible and
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extremely efficient.
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Now is this for UH mental health therapists only?
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No, no, no, h. Professionals can come as well. Coaches
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come as well, very often, yoga teachers we have you
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goat teachers as well because emotion comes up in yoga.
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Mustache therapists is very very wide. So we have people
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from HR, we have therapists, we have coaches, et cetera,
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et cetera.
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Wow. Wow, well, okay, all right, Cedric, I think you
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didn't really good job of articulating what this does and
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how this is different from other modalities. How do people
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learn more about you? What's the best way?
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The best way is to go to Emotional Health Institute
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dot org or m REST dot com.
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Okay, we'll have our linked appear at the show notes
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page at the Trauma Therapist Podcast dot com. All right, Cedric,
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I appreciate you, Thank you very much. All Right, we'll
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be we'll be in touch.
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Take care,
