Ep 4 - Talking with Michele Hansen

Michele Hansen
https://twitter.com/mjwhansen

Geocodio:
https://www.geocod.io
https://twitter.com/Geocodio

Software Social Podcast
https://softwaresocial.dev
https://twitter.com/SoftwareSocPod

Greg Marine  
This week, I've got a guest, who is the co founder of geocode. Do and is also the co host of software, social podcast. Michelle Hanson. Michelle, how are you today?

Michele Hansen  
Good. How are you, Greg?

Greg Marine  
I am doing quite well, thank you so much for being on the show today. Happy to do it. And tell me in the listeners what what is geocode do,

Michele Hansen  
Geocodio is a software as a service company. And we do data matching for location data. So basically, whenever you want to make a map online, a computer doesn't understand an address, it only understands coordinates. So at a very basic level, what we do is converting addresses to coordinate so computers can understand them, and then also coordinates to addresses so that humans can understand them. And then our niche in the market is with, there's a lot of data that you can only get if you have the coordinates. So the coordinates act as sort of a doorway to other pieces of information, like the time zone, for example, for a location, or census data. So we also act as a facilitator to help other people get other pieces of data that they might need, even if they're not mapping, but they're looking to enhance their location data.

Greg Marine  
And how did you guys get started and doing this?

Michele Hansen  
It came about because it was a need, we had ourselves. So my husband and I had made a mobile app in 2012. That helped people find the grocery store and coffee shop hours nearby. So the idea was that if you needed milk at midnight, or a coffee at 3am, you could just pull up the app, and it would tell you what was open. Google didn't really have as advanced features around store hours as it does now. And so the problem with this was that we the whole app, and the central feature of it was a map showing the nearby stores. And we were using Google geocoding. And at the time, you can either get 2500 free locations per day, and you couldn't, you could only cache them for 30 days. Or if you needed more than that. So if you needed 3000 a day, your only option was to get an enterprise enterprise annual contract that was about 1020 $30,000 a year. And we just needed a couple more a day, not that level. So we ended up having to build our own geocoder. And as we talked to our friends about this, your friends who are developers, they had similar problems. And so about six months after we created it for ourselves, we released it to the public.

Greg Marine  
What is really, really interesting. And so you've been doing this for eight years now.

Michele Hansen  
Do you go to lunch in January of 2014? Yeah, so we so we launched the app in 2012. I want to say and then Okay, um, it was sort of over the course of the year as that app grew. I want to say it was June of 2013 that we built the geo coder, and then the sort of testing period what was over that fall, and then we launched in January of 2014.

Greg Marine  
And so you basically built or launched a business out of core feature of the original app, then. Yes, exactly. Yeah, that's, that's, that is really, really interesting and really cool. And tell me, I assume that you weren't doing this full time at the time back in 2012.

Michele Hansen  
No, they were all side projects. So we basically rolled one side project into another. And then from there, you didn't went full time?

Greg Marine  
Did you both go full time at the same time? Or did one of you go before the other?

Michele Hansen  
No, I went full time in October of 2017. And my husband went full time in art. He went part time in February of 2018. And then full time in October of 2018.

Greg Marine  
And now when you did this, was there a specific reason why you both didn't go full time would have been something like health care related or anything like that? Yeah,

Michele Hansen  
absolutely. It was risk mitigation. And so when I went full time, you know, he was still working full time. So we were able to switch over to his health insurance. We had been on my health insurance previously. And then when he went part time He'd actually gone to his boss and told him that the business was growing enough. And he needed to step down. And his boss basically said no. And so we ended up negotiating that he would, you know, go down to working three days a week and partial salary but full benefits. So that allowed us to, that bought us some time to research health insurance options and manage some of that risk.

Greg Marine  
And that's, that's an interesting scenario. And I recall, recently, he did a podcast with calling on software social, where he described sort of a saga that you went through researching health care, and what it would take to do that now that you're both full time with God, Oh,

Michele Hansen  
it's such a mess in the US. And I don't think policymakers realize that the Byzantine us healthcare system, and insurance market holds so many entrepreneurs back

Greg Marine  
Yeah. And that's that's actually a really sort of a what I would describe as a sad situation, because there's so much innovation going on, in in America, and it really does hold us back from being able to truly innovate to our full potential, when something like a risk of health insurance is such a big risk. And you had mentioned that the transition with you going full time first. And then Matthias going second was a risk mitigation. So I'm curious, do you both? Or do one of you have a business background so that you have the insight to consider that?

Michele Hansen  
Yes.

So we both I would say we both have a business background, just in very different ways. So first of all, both of us have the experience of our parents being entrepreneurs. So in my husband's case, his parents run a party rentals business together. And in my case, my dad was a self employed consultant when I was a kid and my mother had an art business. So we were both around business a lot as kids. And my husband had his own business as a child and teenager as well. And then I started my own business with friends at 19 for the first time. And so by the time we started Yokota, we actually had some some understanding of what goes into running a business. And what that means on a practical level, so we had some of the systems level understanding, I wouldn't say we had all of it though, um, and actually, I ended up going back to school to get my MBA in 2017, to fill in some gaps I had around accounting and finance and other sort of system level topics, which I just finished in may

Greg Marine  
Congratulations. So May this year.

Michele Hansen  
Yes.

Greg Marine  
Congratulations. And then along the lines of that business background and achieving your MBA, I assume you both have software development experience. So to be able to develop such a product. Tell me a little bit about the history. And what brought you into software development.

Michele Hansen  
Yeah, so my husband started coding when he was a kid. I think he was seven or eight or so.

Greg Marine  
Really cool.

Michele Hansen  
Yeah, yeah. Um, and, and then I, so I, I think as a, you know, teenager, I think, like many people, my introduction to coding was MySpace, and doing HTML, yourself as a kid. And so I also had the experience of my dad and my mom are both software engineers. So I was around conversations about software from a very early age. So even though I didn't study anything remotely related to software in college, I did international affairs and economics. There was always an understanding of technology there. And the business that I started with friends when I was 19, was run off of WordPress, and I was the one who was managing everything related to, to that website. Um, so it's, I think I have a more non traditional path. And then my husband did you know, he started coding early and majored in this and in college, but But yeah, so it's always something we've been around,

Greg Marine  
thankfully, my cell phone, I can relate to your husband, I started developing software at the ripe age of seven. Nice, what my dad got me started with that on Microsoft BASIC back in the 80s. And then in the 90s, is one of my took off with web development, and I've been doing it ever since. So that's, it's really, really a neat path. As you said, his was more traditional. So it was mine. So but it's very fascinating to hear how you happened upon it, you know, with your parents, having software development background, and then kind of enriching your childhood with that so that now you're doing the same for your family and so on. The next question I have is like, how do you manage doing a business and having a family at the same time,

Michele Hansen  
it feels like the most natural thing in the world to us. And so often people are shocked that we run a business together, and I get this sort of reaction of how do you run a business with your spouse? Like we would kill each other? And I, it's the best job I've ever had. There's no workplace drama, there's no I know, there's, there's no those insecurities that come with working in a company I find. It's, it's wonderful. Of course, it's not for everyone, and there are a lot of spouses that shouldn't work together. And, and, you know, I think we've all heard horror stories about working for spouses that shouldn't work together. But But for us, it really works.

Greg Marine  
Well. That's great to hear. And I know, with my software background, being mostly the MVC pattern, you know, model view controller, I like separation of concerns. So like, for me, personally, I like the idea of having, you know, business and, and work separate from family life. And it sounds like that works well for you guys. And that is excellent. That is great to hear. And, and I, I would see this being something that would instill in your children as well, to be able to do the something similar in the future, since since you both have that in your backgrounds from your parents passed on to you. I think it'd be really cool to see how that turns out for your children.

Michele Hansen  
Yeah, who knows? Right? And, you know, I think our daughter will hopefully absorb some of it. It's certainly a frequent topic of conversation in our houses, there are things going on with the business, and that's talking about work. And we'll see what direction she ends up taking that in.

Greg Marine  
And do you ever have a moment when she's like, please stop talking about God? Oh,

Michele Hansen  
Oh, sure. All the time. But but at the same time, we also have times I think, last night being where she wears her God o t shirt to bed, because it's you're huge on her and, and to be like, I want to be a Juco do girl tonight and like you're always a god. Oh, girl.

Greg Marine  
That's, that's great. Now, you're also the co host of software, social podcast. Tell me, how did that come about? When did you start doing that?

Michele Hansen  
So it came about out of conversations that Colleen and I were having having already. So Colleen moved to the same town, or sort of county as, as we were living in, in 2019, for spring of 2019. And through some mutual friends, we learned that, you know, we're both living in the same place. And and and they suggested that we meet up because it turned out, we live five minutes from each other. And so we started having weekly coffee chats at a local coffee shop. And once the pandemic hit, we of course, had to stop doing that. And sort of separately at some point in the spring, one of our friends was saying how there aren't many podcasts about bootstrapped entrepreneurship by women. And in fact, women aren't even often guests on those podcasts. And they were suggesting that we should do something. And I think Coleen and I had both been missing our weekly conversations with each other. And so it was just kind of like, Well, alright, why don't we just do this? And, you know, worst case, you know, nobody listens to it. And it's forcing us to talk to each other. And so it's been, it's been such a great thing. And, surprisingly, people want to listen to it. But really, we're just having fun and just continuing the conversations we are already having, but hopefully trying to help and inspire others in the process.

Greg Marine  
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head there. You're inspiring others through their processes, whether it be bootstrapping, or just trying to navigate the world as it is today. And I would have to say, that was actually what brought me to know you and, and geocode do and Colleen is that I started listening to your podcast, I made a tweet about what do people wear? What are people using for their platform for for podcasts, and you guys had mentioned, you used transistor FM. And so I started listening to your podcast weekly, and it's one of the things I look most look forward to every week. There's very few things that I look forward to every week and that's one of them, and I really enjoy your guys's podcast. I love the conversations and the insight that you guys provide. One of those most recently was the tiny MBA. I have since purchased that book and starting to apply it to my own business. So I appreciate that you guys have discussions about those kinds of things. And, and so thank you.

Michele Hansen  
That's really kind of you to say,

Greg Marine  
Well, I appreciate your time today. This is going to be a short conversation, but tell tell us more about how we can get in touch with you with the geocode do and where can we listen to your podcast?

Michele Hansen  
Sure. Um, so you can listen to software social, wherever podcasts are distributed, I'm supposed to say what sold but they're not. You can find us online at software social dot dev or on Twitter. Software social pod is our handle. You can always reach me on Twitter, which I'm on probably too much. At MJ W. Hanson and do co do is Stu cod.io. I sometimes say do cod like the fish.io not the easiest domain and the name is not the easiest domain to say. But if you also if you just search for to Cody, it'll come up.

Greg Marine  
Alright, and I'll be sure to put those links in the show notes. And Michelle once again thank you so much for being on the podcast today. And I wish you the best of luck both NGO co do with your husband Matthias and with Colleen on software social.

Michele Hansen  
Thank you so much, Greg, thank you for having me.