Sophie J. Spitzer: Nico. ⁓ It's so to have you on our show today. ⁓ And I love to dive right in with ⁓ a introduction you ⁓ and how got into the longevity space.
Niko: Definitely. Thank you guys so much. You guys have an amazing project with the podcast. So really looking forward as soon as it launched. But yeah, maybe for a quick introduction. My name is Nico. I've been in the quote unquote longevity space or health optimization space for more than 10 years. It started when I was around 13 or 14 years old. I'm quite tall. I'm close to two meters. And back then I weighed around like below 70 kilos, which was a according to BMI almost underweight or even on the bridge of being underweight. And I felt really uncomfortable in my own body. So I really wanted to change that. And this is what really got me into ⁓ first of all, the gym, then obviously also nutrition because I needed to add a lot of calories. And I wanted to do that in a clean way because I always wanted to like optimize my body somehow. This is what really got me into the topic and then came podcasts. Then I read all of the books pretty much. I talked with all of my friends about the topic. It probably was really, really annoying when I'm being totally honest. And then when I did my which I did in Lisbon, great city by the way, can only recommend. I met a friend, ⁓ Miguel, whom also now hosting podcast, Return on Health. And we talked about health all of the time. ⁓ I'm coming originally by training from a business background and was in consultancy at Deloitte and whatever. Really wasn't my passion. Health was always my passion. And when I met Miguel, it just sparked again. So I went 100 % into the longevity space, ⁓ the masters in longevity at GCS or still doing it. ⁓ working at years longevity clinic in Berlin. ⁓ yeah, in a nutshell, ⁓ journey, background.
Sophie J. Spitzer: How is it to study longevity, super recent study field?
Niko: Yeah, interesting. also, I mean, GCLS, Geneva College of Longevity Science, it's already in the name and they are only focusing on longevity. They are the first university in the world, I think, at least in Europe, that's for sure, ⁓ which offer master's degree or ⁓ actually any in longevity. So that's quite exciting, but it's a super new field. There's a lot of bullshit out there, to be totally honest, a lot of myths and yeah, a lot of... new research coming out, which really needs to be validated, which really needs to be looked at from a, ⁓ let's say broad scope and really take into ⁓ the methodology, the outcomes, all of this. So it's really, really interesting, but you need to be extremely careful all of the things out there. Yeah.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Yeah, we will be touching some myths later on in the episode. We're really excited to hear more about that. yeah, I mean, so I love the coincidence. Tell us more about your project Peekspan.
Niko: Yeah, definitely. So yeah, thank you so ⁓ stumbled upon ⁓ concept of peak span in a paper which was published. I'm sure you guys read it too. And then also, also by coincidence, I had a guest in my podcast also talking about peak span. So I was like, okay, this is amazing concept. then you, Sophie, wrote me ⁓ that you a new podcast, which is also called peak span. So this is quite amazing. ⁓
Sophie J. Spitzer: It's a great name.
Niko: I love the concept of peak span. I'm a big fan of half span rather than focusing on life span. really years in good health. ⁓ peak span kind of takes us to a new level. So this is why I find the concept amazing. And is also why I named my project, my N of one anecdotal experiment. Please don't take this as ⁓ good It's not, it's the lowest level of evidence out there, but this is why I named the project peak span. And what I'm doing there is basically, I said, for more than 10 years, I'm taking really good care of my body in a physical sense. So all of my biomarkers pretty much look good. Obviously not all of them, but most of them I'm quite fit. I have good strength, good muscles, whatever you want to call it, low body fat. So from a physiological standpoint, I'm quite fit. Obviously there are still some risks. For example, I have a genetic predisposition to a heart disease. have increased lipoprotein A. But nevertheless, the most important factor for me was when I was studying at Berkeley, I had burnout kind of, ⁓ like a panic disorder, which is a subset of anxiety disorders. ⁓ there I really was hit in the face ⁓ with important physiological health is, ⁓ like health, ⁓ all those factors, emotions, stress. ⁓ always, I never really focused on that. And this is why I wanted to start Project PeakSpan to get me from my lowest point, which was back then in Berkeley 2024 my peak again, ⁓ I wasn't ⁓ close to my peak when I was at Berkeley. I was pretty much at rock bottom. I couldn't do ⁓ I couldn't go to the gym. I pretty much couldn't do anything. Couldn't really concentrate when I was studying just because my mental health was quote unquote broken even. And so yeah, the project was really to get me into good shape again to get me even to my peak span. Yeah.
Alexandra Böhmer: did you set it Are you regularly tracking your data in there or what's the process?
Sophie J. Spitzer: ⁓
Niko: Yeah, I mean, I'm working at the longevity clinic. So this is quite convenient. Obviously I'm doing the checkup there, which I did twice already. First time was in the beginning of 2025. So right after hitting pretty much rock bottom, right in the middle of my panic disorder and right in the middle of me not doing sports for think three months it was back then, which I didn't do for like the past 10 years. I always went to the gym. always went jogging, always kept my shape, put the ⁓ on kinder. ⁓ then I did the test and pretty much everything looked not good at all. ⁓ mean, obviously my mental health, we do mental health questionnaires, they look terrible. I mean, that's for sure, but I knew that already. ⁓ my view to Max was really bad. My strength ⁓ were really bad. So pretty much all of this was... extremely bad. And then I also was wearing an aura ring, which I'm not right now, because I think it's better for your mental health if you're not wearing wearables, but that's another topic. And then I did regular blood work as well. Obviously I did it at my big check-in at years in the beginning of 2025. Then I also did two more blood draws as well to just take a look at the data. And then I think three months ago in the beginning of 2026, I did another check-in. at years at the clinic I'm working at and yeah, all of my values improved. ⁓ can say that, but that's kind of the methodology. That's kind of how the project works. But again, it's all anecdotal and of one data.
Sophie J. Spitzer: I would ⁓ love to pause for a moment and just ⁓ stay with what you said about wouldn't recommend people to wearables ⁓ their mental health. As a longevity influence, I feel like that is a big thing to say. Could you just elaborate a little more?
Niko: Yeah, for sure. So first of all, I'm not against wearing wearables in general. I'm just really waking up in the morning and first thing you do is checking your phone and then checking your hour ring or your whoop app or whatever and then checking your sleep score. You can listen to your body. That's really important. ⁓ you are tired, you probably didn't slap enough or not well enough. You don't need a ring or any wearable to tell you that. ⁓ For me, at least the most important factor is you need to listen to your body. then also obviously wearables also have a strength or have advantages to them. For example, if you do training, if you want to do zone two training, for example, or if you want to do interval training, obviously it's good to track your heart rate. For example, through whoop or whatever you name it doesn't really matter. That's definitely and I'm still wearing a wearable when I'm going ⁓ for example, when I'm doing interval training or when I'm going for zone two one. I think that's still really beneficial. What I'm not doing anymore is wearing a wing, for example, to sleep. don't find personally for me any value because mean, I pretty much know all of the things I need to do. For example, stop eating four hours before bed, need to keep the bedroom kind of closed, which in summer, obviously it's. ⁓ Yeah, it's not the easiest thing to do. room needs to be dark, no noises, all of this. I need to do this anyway. So yeah, for me, there's no real advantage there. And then also in terms of ⁓ measurement I don't think we are there yet that the devices are 100 % accurate. For example, I was wearing an aura ring and a ⁓ at the time, and the values differed. a lot, like by 10 to 20 percent. For example, I was wearing one year ago an Apple watch as well and it said I had a view to max of 55 ish and then I did real medical grade view to max analysis and it was more than 25 percent lower. So accuracy is kind of debatable. Yeah, mean some advantages, some disadvantages. You just really need to take this with a grain of salt, I think.
Sophie J. Spitzer: thank you. I ⁓ also personally stopped looking at my aura ⁓ score in the morning. Like I always check it maybe before going to bed or like when I check my aura app. But I just really stopped because it does have for me personally a big influence on my ⁓ awakeness during the day. Yeah. ⁓ would also love to... ⁓
Niko: ⁓ Yeah, I can imagine.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Take a little more space in understanding how your situation pre-breakdown, pre-burnout was. Like, could you walk us through where you I mean, you already mentioned Berkeley, but like, what was your routine? How did your life look like? And how did it get to that, to that breaking point?
Niko: Yeah, definitely. So prior to Berkeley, the past, I don't know, like four years-ish, was studying all of the time. I did side projects all of the time. ⁓ founded some nonprofits. I founded some student clubs. I was doing internships during my time studying in my bachelor's and master's. I did six internships, I think, ⁓ in which is quite a lot. So I never really had a ⁓ real break. Mostly always thinking about anything to bring my career forward, which I mean, did good things, obviously. And I'm also proud of that, but really drained my energy and my stress level was always, and I knew that back then as well, way too high. But back then I thought, okay, this, I mean, it doesn't matter. I'm still young. I can push through this, I couldn't. And I was also going to the gym pretty strictly, like five times a week. Mostly I did strength training, interval training, and some zone two cardio, mostly strength training and interval training. So this ⁓ put a lot of strain on my body. And then when I was in Berkeley, I real random courses, took like astrophysics, new technology, generative AI courses, which were all amazing, ⁓ but didn't anything about that stuff ⁓ except Generated AI maybe a bit. But this was really hard. then living abroad in a country, living with 10 people in one house was also an interesting experience. And then the gym even more because I had a good buddy of mine who was in the military. And obviously we then pushed each other. And all of this led to enormous stress. ⁓ kind of my body ⁓ broke down. kind of from one point to another. There were some warning signs, but not really that many, if I'm totally honest. mean, stressors were high, yeah, knew that, but no real warning signs. Just broke down from, yeah, from now to like two weeks after, I think, yeah. Was all in two weeks time approximately.
Sophie J. Spitzer: And was there like a trigger event or was it just like the pond was flowing over, like one drop and it was...
Niko: Yeah. Good question. I'm not 100 % sure. The first time I had a quote unquote attack, like a panic attack, wasn't a real full-fledged panic attack. This was different. I had that two weeks later. But when I was sitting a lecture, at a generative AI lecture at, I don't know, 6 PM or whatever, so was quite late and quite a stressful day. And then suddenly I got a wave of dizziness and really couldn't see for a few seconds. I was like, okay. the heck is going on now. Just drank a little bit of water and was like, okay, that's fine. I mean, that doesn't really matter. Probably not hydrated enough or whatever. But then following days, I dizziness attacks again and again. was like, hmm, that's kind of weird. ⁓ But I just pushed this ⁓ to side and thought, okay, let me just push through. And then when I was at the gym doing strength training, two weeks after my first and quote unquote attack. I had a real panic attack and was like, okay, am I dying now? ⁓ in the world is happening? ⁓ felt like I'm having a heart attack. Obviously I don't know how it feels like to have a heart attack, but I think this is what it feels like ⁓ and recommend definitely. And then went to the ER, but that's pretty much the process went through. And this is how I see Obviously, I don't know, maybe... If you're completely objectively, maybe there were some warning signs, but I just pushed them to the side, but this how I saw it retrospectively, I guess.
Sophie J. Spitzer: interesting actually now that I think about it. I also struggled with panic attacks and anxiety disorder for the past two to three years. And my first panic attack, full-fledged where I also thought I was going to have a heart attack, was in my exchange semester in Boston, taking on a lot of courses, doing a lot of sport, know, doing all the things quote unquote right. And I think, yeah, think thinking about it now, it's this feeling of dangerously disembodied. I heard this term recently and I think that that fits really well. Like you think you do everything right, but your body actually starts to scream, but you're not able to connect these dots yet.
Niko: This fits pretty well, yeah. ⁓ agree.
Alexandra Böhmer: Nico, you were mentioning before that you started tracking all your biomarkers, especially since you're working a longevity clinic now. ⁓ was it before your breakdown? Did you have any data already besides ⁓ the variables? Okay, cool.
Niko: Yeah, a lot of data, maybe too much data even. Maybe this was also ⁓ something which increased my stress levels. ⁓ when was in Berkeley, ⁓ I also to get deep into the longevity health ecosystem, especially in San Francisco and the Bay area in general, because it's super exciting and it still is super exciting. So for example, I took the function testing from Mark Hyman. They have think 100 something biomarkers and which get checked at twice. And they did both checks. First one before my panic attack, second one after. ⁓ But ⁓ was nothing really pointing towards the direction that ⁓ I was having a panic disorder or I was getting panic attacks. ⁓ interesting. Then I also took genetic testing, which is the thing ⁓ I wouldn't take again. That's for sure because were lifestyle genetic tests. This was a whole genome sequencing, which I did with a company I can't remember the name of, but probably better for them. ⁓ just hand you a PDF document or pretty much an online portal with a bunch of information. I mean, there were 1000 different things I had ⁓ on. ⁓ And if you look at the data, there is real value in medical grade genome analysis. For example, APOE4, which has real causal predictive power for neurodegenerative diseases, or the breakout genes, which have real predictive power for breast cancer, especially in women, but also some different cancers in men. So this really has ⁓ ability, so to say. ⁓ then there's also lifestyle genetics, where you look at all sorts of different things. And here the interesting thing is they just put two things together. For example, you have degenerative part where they look at APOE4, which is insanely validated. There's a bunch of data. This is 100 % causal. There's a causal relationship there. And then you have, for example, knee pain. ⁓ They me ⁓ I'm likely to have knee pain. Just a weird example. ⁓ This is based on maybe a random mouse study done in somewhere Eastern Europe or whatever. Doesn't really matter, not even done in humans. So you can compare those two things. And then obviously they gave me risk factors for all sorts of different stuff. And I was just really stressed out because I was like, whoa, that's a lot of information, not a lot of actionability. What am I even going to do with this? So yeah, this I wouldn't do again. ⁓ couldn't recommend to anyone, to be honest. I don't think there's a lot of there. There are good companies out there, but I wouldn't do the full-fledged lifestyle genetic testing. Can't recommend. but ⁓ to answer question, I did a lot of testing as you can imagine before that as well. Yeah. Also more blood loss. did microbiome testing and yeah, quite a lot.
Alexandra Böhmer: Okay, super interesting. I assume, or you also said before, ⁓ all your biomarkers are much better now than they were in 2024 when this all happened. ⁓ ⁓ looking back at your data back then, could you have ⁓ from the data back then that you were not in a good mental space?
Niko: Yeah. Yeah. No, not really. Definitely ⁓ I would even say. I mean, even my morning cortisol levels were fine, which I had measured at Health. Obviously didn't do the full stretch. just forgot the name, but four times a day, cortisol testing didn't do that one. Maybe there I would have caught it. I don't know, not entirely sure. ⁓ But from all the data I gathered, ⁓ I ⁓ couldn't ⁓
Alexandra Böhmer: Okay. And what do you think is the relationship between, doing, Sophie said it before, doing everything right, doing all the protocols right and still not feeling great in your own body or not feeling safe in your own body?
Niko: Yeah, that's quite interesting because was maybe doing, ⁓ maybe, I was definitely doing way too much things all at once as well. ⁓ was really into this optimization field. I was eating pretty much perfectly for my own body. If there is a perfect, not sure, especially in regards to nutrition, ⁓ I was doing like pretty much everything right in regards to nutrition. I was going to the gym six times a week, but all of this together combined with the mental stress I had because I was living with 10 people I didn't know in a different country, 10 hours time to my home country where my girlfriend was already, ⁓ was at, ⁓ then interesting but really stressful courses at one of the universities in the world. ⁓ All of this in total just way too much stress load. So I think you can over optimize and I'm pretty sure I over optimized, especially the wrong things. I should have over optimized recovery. ⁓ And example, breath work or doing yin yoga or doing anything which is beneficial for your own recovery, taking days off, even going in nature, going hiking for a few days, which I even did, but still there, also thought about work and study in ⁓ uni of the time. So also wasn't really beneficial. Getting the steps in which generally is beneficial, but then you should try to keep a calm mind as well, which I didn't do.
Alexandra Böhmer: getting the steps in.
Niko: So yeah, I pretty much over optimized over the wrong things. Yeah.
Alexandra Böhmer: I mean, guess what happened to you there is ⁓ rare, especially for ⁓ achievers or peak performers, ⁓ over-optimizing, ⁓ think Sophie, you know it as well, I know it as well, and forgetting the mind as ⁓ an aspect in there. ⁓ How you think is that addressed in general in the longevity space from your perspective?
Niko: not enough, ⁓ clearly not enough. And there's even really good data on mental health, ⁓ even ⁓ on things like living in a good community. For example, there was a Harvard study, it was epidemiological, it was a public health study, ⁓ and found the number one predictor of good, I think it was lifespan on health, I'm not entirely sure, I would need to look that up, but was community sense of belonging, like factors. influencing mental health and your general sense of happiness, your resilience, all of this. So I think there's amazing data on mental health aspects surrounding mental health as well. Like community, would also say this is really beneficial and really important for mental health. But in the longevity space, especially on social media, it's not talked about enough. Most people talk even about the 2%, 1 % that don't even move the needle that much. really deep bio hacks, which maybe do something. We are not entirely sure yet for most of them even, and not talking enough about the basics and mental health for me is part of the basic. It's not only nutrition, sleep, sports, but it's also stress management. It's also mental health in general, feeling fine, having a sense of belonging, having friends and spending time with friends and family. So yeah, in my opinion, not talked about enough, ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah, not talked about enough.
Alexandra Böhmer: Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's why we started this podcast talking about the mental aspects of longevity, because it's such an important debate. And I'm wondering in your journey, did you manage to pivot basically from ⁓ my head or how I understand it, it's when we are used to doing so much ⁓ ⁓ doing becomes the problem because we are overdoing things. The antidote is not doing anymore and it's basically more being. ⁓ Being is something we can't, it's more difficult to do because you can't really do it. And I'm just wondering how did you pivot and how did you adapt to a recovery lifestyle basically?
Niko: Yeah. First of all, let me say I'm still not there yet. I'm still having way too much stress. ⁓ is ⁓ not great. It's fine. But my stress levels still way too I don't really live in the moment most of the time. So I'm quite aware of that. That being said, it's way better than like a couple of years ago, but still far from perfect. So that's the first thing I want to say. Yeah. So the second thing I want to say is that for me, was really forced to pivoting, pretty much, to be totally honest. It wasn't really a choice for me because when I was having my breakdown in Berkeley, I couldn't really live anymore. Even if that sounds harsh, I wasn't feeling well in my body. I couldn't concentrate. pretty much couldn't do anything anymore. Couldn't go to the gym because I was extremely afraid and scared of the gym because there was the moment when I had my first panic attack. So I needed to change something. There wasn't even an option for me. And I hope for most people out there, there still is an option for them to change on their own because I wouldn't wish anyone the experience I went through, for example, you, Sophie, also went through. this isn't a pleasant experience. You learn a lot. That's for sure. But yeah, for me, ⁓ I only one option, which was to recover, to pivot towards ⁓ focusing on recovery, I did by not going to the ⁓ gym, for example, hardcore strength training. Only did zone two exercise during that time because this wasn't draining my energy levels ⁓ and ⁓ just... is way more relaxing for your body. better for your parasympathetic nervous system, which wasn't active at all probably in my body ⁓ that time. So I really needed to work on that. Was on my breath work, ⁓ was yin yoga, but all of that because I was forced to do it pretty much. Now I'm grateful ⁓ that was forced to do it because I'm still doing it and it's super beneficial for my health. But yeah, for me it was an option. I just was pretty much forced to pivot.
Alexandra Böhmer: Makes a little sense. And I'm still wondering, because I would like to dig a little bit deeper here, because I remember when I was in a clinic myself, I brought my high achiever mind into the clinic and I had more than 17 therapy sessions a week. And after four weeks, I had another burnout within the clinic. And my, the head of the clinic basically came to me and said, you know what, you're doing everything right from the outside, but
Niko: Mm.
Alexandra Böhmer: what's not working for you is like how you handle things in the inside. Like you're causing the stress and in the beginning I was like what is she talking about? And then it made total sense for me so I think yes I had to change as well because there was no other option but still aware of it first. So I'm wondering what happened for you.
Niko: Yeah. First of all, I had the same experience in one of my first therapy sessions. I was like, okay, give me one, two, three things I need to do now. Let me just work on that. And that's totally fine. And then she was like, no, that's not how it's, that's not how it works. And I was like, what do you mean? I just want to work on those things and then it's all going to be good again. So I had pretty much the same realization as you also needed to put my high achieving performance mindset away for that. And then pretty much through a process by time, I would say, changed my mindset a bit, got used to being more present, got used to the fact that this will take time. And for me, took approximately one year to get completely rid of the panic disorder and to just have this realization that it needs to take a lot of time, that it can't work like in two, three, four weeks. This is simply not possible for me. This realization helped a lot because when I realized this, I knew I needed to change my mindset. knew I needed to change the way I see, this disease, if you to call it disease, this problem even, ⁓ and this was really turning point for me. So I think it was just a process by time, just, just over time, I got used to the fact that, okay, this will take time. Okay, you need to take care of your mental health by doing things slower, by not doing everything all at once. was just a realization over time, I think, for me personally.
Sophie J. Spitzer: I would like to ask something maybe a little on the controversial side. of what I'm observing and I think for Alexandra in her practices has also observed this, you can tell people a lot, you you have to focus on recovery, downtime is important, you you need to get the balance. But for many, they hear it, but they don't receive it. So my question here is, I mean, to all of us, right, is a breakdown in some capacity needed in order for us to get the severity of changing. And Nico, what do you think you would have needed to hear before the breakdown that would have convinced you to take a different route?
Niko: This is a really good question. And the second part, I'm not sure. I actually don't know. I mean, I knew that nutrition is important, sleep is important, going to the gym is important, going for a run is important. I think I also knew, I'm pretty sure I knew that mental health is important as well, that stress levels are important as well. But just by a matter of fact, I I wanted to have a good career. I wanted to work hard. I wanted to achieve great things. So I just thought, okay, those two things don't really work great together, which I would now disagree. think there are ways have them work together. But think for me, probably the breakdown ⁓ was only the ⁓ only which could have convinced me completely to not only focus on career and ⁓ physical but also focus ⁓ on mental health. I think this really depends on the type of person you are. So I don't think that everybody needs to have a breakdown. think also, for example, just listening to this podcast and us sharing our experiences, maybe, hopefully, will convince some people that they sometimes need to take a break, that they sometimes need to do breath work, for example, or yin yoga. I'm really loving yin yoga, by the way. don't know if you noticed already. And it's just one hour a week or like maybe two hours a week. And it's really easy to incorporate. Just saying. I think for a lot of people, could work by listening to podcasts, just really knowing what it feels like, hearing this from other people, this could eventually also push them towards this direction. And also maybe on social media, more people talking about the subject, more people talking about how it feels like and what you can actually do in order to be at ⁓ performing level, also in your job, in your career or whatever, and also keeping... ⁓ track of your mental health as well. So it really depends for me probably was the only choice for most people. hope, really hope ⁓ it's not the only choice.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Let's switch gears. You're also ⁓ I would say, ⁓ longevity expert, a LinkedIn top voice ⁓ on the matter longevity. So ⁓ we're very curious hop into that block of the questions now. ⁓ What is your number one longevity that you're tired of hearing? and maybe you can then give us a little more.
Niko: Good question. This is for me personally really hard to answer because I have the big open mind. I love new ideas. I love reading about new research, about even new stuff which has only mechanistic evidence. So it's interesting on a biological standpoint, isn't really interesting from a clinical effectiveness or clinically meaningful. so to say, standpoint, so from a research side of things, really open to this. And I love reading all of this. What I'm not loving is that a lot of people are pushing stuff like this. For example, longevity peptides, quote unquote, longevity peptides. And most people know what I mean when I say this. For example, BPC 157 or TB 500 or whatever, you name it. There are quite a lot of peptides out there. So first of all, for the people who don't know, peptides are pretty much signaling molecules, they are just chains of amino acid. And for example, insulin is a peptide, we all know. So they definitely hold a lot meaningful body functions or GLP1s, or Ozempic for example, it's a peptide as well. So those fall in the same category, but, and kind of they do not, because for example, GLP1s, have like a huge ton of RCTs, randomized control trials done on humans. We have outcome data for GLP1s. We know what they do. We know their safety profile. We don't really know the long, long term safety profile. So that's still up for debate, but we still, we know a lot. We know how they work. We know the side effects. We know most of this to a good extent, at least. We do not know this for most the longevity peptides, BPC1570, B500, whatever name it. So in my view, things are still extremely interesting because They are really interesting you look at mechanistic data. They are really interesting when you look at anecdotal stories. Again, my Peekspan project is an anecdotal story as well. I still think they hold some value, but you definitely should take this with a big grain of salt. And what I'm hating is that people are just pushing them social media saying, they are super safe. Oh, they are doing X, Y, and Z 100%. They are just way too sure about all of this. I would be really appreciative if people would just be more honest on those subjects, if they would really just say, OK, this is the mechanistic evidence. We don't really have that much human data. This is what it should do in theory. In practice, it could look completely different. We don't really know yet. But maybe if you want to try it out, if you have any side effects, talk to your practitioner. maybe do an N of 1 experiment with them under medical guidance. This would be completely different than just having people buy those things on the gray market because they heard on social media that things are amazing and everybody should take them. And if you don't take them, you're stupid. I hate that. I would love for honesty. I would love for more open-mindedness. But yeah, just... way less bullshit and way less over promise and more honesty would be greatly needed. And peptides are just one example. are way more examples. There are also like some exosome or stem cell therapies pushed, in like some highland countries that's legal in most other countries. It's not legal. ⁓ There are influencers pushing this. Again, this is all super interesting and I hope to see some more research on this ⁓ and I that... the research will get funded. is another issue. Maybe even more real-world evidence at least. This is also a ⁓ which is really interesting to me. yeah, ⁓ don't overhype it. ⁓ over promise all of the time. That's what's ⁓ much annoying me the most. ⁓
Sophie J. Spitzer: I mean you were really very very detailed and technical already if we talk about you know more mainstream longevity myths what is like one or two where you're like ⁓ know everyone is listening like that's BS. ⁓
Niko: Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, mean supplements probably. mean, most people have heard about supplements and don't get me wrong. For example, if you live in Germany, you will most likely have a vitamin D deficiency, especially in winter. Don't get me wrong. It's probably also not bad to take magnesium, especially if you, for example, have constant headaches. Please then go to a doctor as well. magnesium for that, for example, is interesting. Or ⁓ omega-3. Data is a bit mixed, maybe even some negative outcomes, but still, mean, maybe this is interesting. So there are some supplements out there. Or if you have a vitamin B deficiency, for example, in vegans or vegetarians, obviously, please address this. Please address this. Please measure it, then address it, and then measure it again, and then check, okay, where you stand. This is all completely fine. But probably it's not really necessary, good, beneficial even to take 100 different supplements where there is Interesting, again, mechanistic data, probably some mouse studies, even some small human case studies. ⁓ first of all, we don't know how they mix. If you take 100 different ⁓ all at once, we don't really know how they interact. And for most of them, most likely we don't have good evidence on them. Still, as I said, if you want to try them out, especially under medical guidance, think that's up to you, totally. as long as you're educated in terms of safety profile and that there isn't that much data on there, that, ⁓ most of the things you're hearing, they are just over promising. So for most people, you don't need that many supplements. You should first focus on the basics, which are sleep, sports, nutrition, and then as I said, mental health, really, really important ⁓ resilience, all of this focus on this first and then especially address deficiencies. And if you want to experiment with some supplements which have maybe good case studies or some human data at least, yeah, just measure, talk to a practitioner, find a good practitioner up for this, measure especially ⁓ at profiles. ⁓ Yeah, and there's also the placebo effect. So if it doesn't work, maybe it still works. ⁓
Sophie J. Spitzer: We love a good placebo. the flip what is a longevity hack or direction that you are seeing right now that might be new and that you're testing and loving at the moment?
Niko: Yeah. That's a good question. mean, probably the honest answer is nothing really. That would be the honest answer because most of the things out there, are, as I said, for me personally, really interesting. From a only medical standpoint, most of the things are not interesting at all because we are just lacking evidence. And for real medical decisions, we normally need a lot of evidence. We need RCTs. We need Mendelian randomization studies. We need meta-analysis of big RCTs. So we needed a lot of data, a lot of safety data, a lot of efficacy data. And we just simply don't have this for most, maybe all, all longevity interventions pushed on social media at least. For me, it always comes down to the basics. And this is also what I realize all of the time that this is really the thing most people need to on more and they don't need to take all of those substances. In the case that the basics are perfect, ⁓ maybe experimenting with some supplements ⁓ calcium alpha ketoglutawid, for example, is interesting to me. Take this again with a grain of salt. There is some evidence, ⁓ example, National University of Singapore has published a study under Andrea Meyer, think. ⁓ It's interesting, mechanistically interesting. I'm just experimenting with it, to be totally Yeah, you should definitely take this with a grain of salt and talk to your practitioner physician, do your own research. But this is something, which I'm in.
Sophie J. Spitzer: And I guess we would also see that on your project peak span, right? You're documenting, you would be documenting it there. Yeah. And from that, right, since you've been tracking, what is, if you had to name one intervention that really surprised you in like positive effects and one that was like a zero.
Niko: Yes, definitely. Definitely. Yep. ⁓ yeah, the best one was Yin Yoga. I I talked about this three or four, five times maybe even now. But this really was the thing which surprised me the most because I was always in this high achieving mindset doing all of the things all together all at once. And then suddenly I was one hour just sitting there pretty much doing nothing, holding positions for four minutes, three to five minutes.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Beautiful.
Niko: And then in the end, even laying down doing nothing, I was like, what the heck am I doing here? And the first two to three sessions, I couldn't concentrate at all. was just, I just wanted to leave pretty much. I was like, okay, I cannot do this. This is impossible for me. But I kept going. And after the third time, I really enjoyed it. I really could calm down. example, yesterday I was at the yin yoga session again and I almost fell asleep. ⁓ That never happened to me before. I can't even fall asleep on the couch, for example. Definitely not in a plane or any other transportation modes. But yesterday I almost fell asleep. So I think this says a lot and this says enough. So I would encourage everyone to try this out. And then one thing which didn't work. mean, depends. mean, in terms of testing, wouldn't recommend to do.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Hmm.
Niko: lifestyle genetic testing pretty much to anyone except you're really looking for something specific, but then maybe only look at this or have a practitioner look at this and then have them tell you and you not having to worry about 1000 data points. So from a testing perspective, that's it. And then like, mean, five years ago, I took way more supplements than I'm doing right now. For example, I took some antioxidants like OPC or different, different other Probably wouldn't take them now because also we need oxidative stress. This is also a way of signaling. For example, in lungs, we definitely need this. So we don't want to bring oxidative stress to zero. We just want to find a balance. So yeah, for example, I think antioxidants for most people are overrated, I would say at least. For me, they were at least, yeah.
Alexandra Böhmer: super interesting. And maybe when we look at the peak span audience or for someone in the peak span audience who thinks, well, I haven't had a panning attack yet and if you can't see it in the data and I think I'm pretty much doing everything right, what's the one thing that you want them to hear or to take away from your insights?
Niko: Yeah. Just really try to listen to your body. Your body tells you a lot of stuff, which you're most likely not aware of. mean, for me, I had ⁓ due too much stress. Didn't listen to that. My heart, heart rate was sometimes elevated. Didn't listen to that. And then the dizziness attacks I had, didn't listen to that as well. So when your body is trying to tell you something, try to listen and also actively try to see if your body is, or if your body wants to tell you something. Because in today's times we are pretty much spending most of the time just looking at something, at least at your phone, at your computer screen, ⁓ to people. Talking to people is good, but you, most of the time in today's times don't really have time to think, ⁓ be on your own, to... do pretty much nothing. So I would encourage people to do that and then maybe your body will speak to you as well.
Alexandra Böhmer: Yeah, I think that's key, listening to your body and the body is communicating actually with us and it's not doing something to annoy us. I think that's first of all. But for someone who, and I guess that's a key problem because some people don't have a connection to their body. Like how can you maybe from your experience build this connection and actually, because you also said like you were not listening to your signals. How can you build this relationship that you can actually get in tune with your own body?
Niko: Yeah. Yeah, this is really hard. At least it was really hard for me. It's super individual. mean, it differs for every person, obviously. But for me, Key was really having time to think. Really, for example, going on a walk without your phone for like one hour, just thinking, just trying feel emotions ⁓ as which I'm not really good at. My girlfriend ⁓ will you this as well. ⁓ She always says that I'm not good at emotions, which I agree. So for me, this topic is hard as well. just really, I mean, try to hear your inner voice. Try to have moments at least every week, best case every time, where you are actively just sitting there or going for a walk in nature, best case, and just thinking, just... let your brain do its thing. Not looking at the phone, not looking at social media. This is what helped me most. And I think for a lot of people, this will help them as well. I assume at least.
Alexandra Böhmer: I think so too. So now Nico, we're coming to an end. ⁓ the we would like to give you a chance to ⁓ tell us bit more about your own projects. I know you just launched your own ⁓ podcast project in the of 2026. Maybe you can tell us a bit about what is it about? Return on Health ⁓ is the name, ⁓ I recall.
Niko: Yes, that's the name. And as the name suggests, me and my co-host, Miguel, which I explained also, which I met during my Masters in Lisbon, we were both just from a passion side of things, really into health. And we were talking about health all of the time, really all of the time. All of our friends were annoyed. So, and then we thought, okay, why not just put a microphone in front of us and press record while we are talking and then invite great guests. So that's pretty much the project. We try to invite everybody. ⁓ we really want to listen to different voices, to different opinions. really want to challenge them, which I think is super, super important ⁓ in most big podcasts, people can just make every claim out there and they don't get challenged. So we wanted to change that. yeah, that's pretty much a project. We just want to educate people on things that work for health so ⁓ that can optimize for the variable in life, which is most important, health. And that's ⁓ where name comes in, Return on Health. I mean, I'm coming from a business ⁓ background, so always talking about return on invest, but the best invest is in your health. that's how the name pretty much.
Alexandra Böhmer: Amazing. We're definitely going to link it in the show notes. So everyone who's interested can check it out there. And how can people best find you, Nico?
Niko: Probably best at LinkedIn, Nico Hems, and then also on my website where I publish my data through project Peekspan. And then also will also find my newsletter, which is called Beyond the Hype, ⁓ I think fits. ⁓ ⁓ it's completely free. You can subscribe. You will get ⁓ insights every two weeks.
Alexandra Böhmer: Amazing, we also put this in the show notes. So thank you so much. It has been very insightful. Also, thank you so much for ⁓ your personal story here with us for the first time. ⁓ ⁓ I'm going to hand over to Sophie now for our final question.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Yes, we have a closing tradition. So my final question to you is, Nico, how does it feel when you're at your peak?
Niko: Good question. I'm not sure that I reached my peak yet. So an interesting learning I had, I think. I always thought I was at my peak, but I clearly wasn't because I just not looking at my mental health at all. Just not recognizing how important this is at all. And I mean, I'm way better off now than I was before, but I... Definitely wouldn't say that I'm at my peak yet. I'm still working towards this. And this is also why the project is named Project PeakSpan to first reach peak and then try to hold it as long as possible. But I wouldn't say I'm quite there yet. So I hope to know how it feels in the future. But for me, probably the most important factor is that I'm just calm, that I have high resilience, that I'm living in the moment. This is really, really important for me and I'm really bad at it. Sadly, and I think most people are, I'm not judging, but this is just my observation. So for me, this is how I think it feels like. I couldn't tell you how it feels like because I'm just not there yet.
Alexandra Böhmer: then we'll have to invite you again once you're there to tell us then.
Niko: Hopefully soon.
Alexandra Böhmer: Amazing, thank you so much Nico. It's been a pleasure.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Yeah, thank you so much.
Niko: Thank you so much.
Niko: Definitely. Thank you guys so much. You guys have an amazing project with the podcast. So really looking forward as soon as it launched. But yeah, maybe for a quick introduction. My name is Nico. I've been in the quote unquote longevity space or health optimization space for more than 10 years. It started when I was around 13 or 14 years old. I'm quite tall. I'm close to two meters. And back then I weighed around like below 70 kilos, which was a according to BMI almost underweight or even on the bridge of being underweight. And I felt really uncomfortable in my own body. So I really wanted to change that. And this is what really got me into ⁓ first of all, the gym, then obviously also nutrition because I needed to add a lot of calories. And I wanted to do that in a clean way because I always wanted to like optimize my body somehow. This is what really got me into the topic and then came podcasts. Then I read all of the books pretty much. I talked with all of my friends about the topic. It probably was really, really annoying when I'm being totally honest. And then when I did my which I did in Lisbon, great city by the way, can only recommend. I met a friend, ⁓ Miguel, whom also now hosting podcast, Return on Health. And we talked about health all of the time. ⁓ I'm coming originally by training from a business background and was in consultancy at Deloitte and whatever. Really wasn't my passion. Health was always my passion. And when I met Miguel, it just sparked again. So I went 100 % into the longevity space, ⁓ the masters in longevity at GCS or still doing it. ⁓ working at years longevity clinic in Berlin. ⁓ yeah, in a nutshell, ⁓ journey, background.
Sophie J. Spitzer: How is it to study longevity, super recent study field?
Niko: Yeah, interesting. also, I mean, GCLS, Geneva College of Longevity Science, it's already in the name and they are only focusing on longevity. They are the first university in the world, I think, at least in Europe, that's for sure, ⁓ which offer master's degree or ⁓ actually any in longevity. So that's quite exciting, but it's a super new field. There's a lot of bullshit out there, to be totally honest, a lot of myths and yeah, a lot of... new research coming out, which really needs to be validated, which really needs to be looked at from a, ⁓ let's say broad scope and really take into ⁓ the methodology, the outcomes, all of this. So it's really, really interesting, but you need to be extremely careful all of the things out there. Yeah.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Yeah, we will be touching some myths later on in the episode. We're really excited to hear more about that. yeah, I mean, so I love the coincidence. Tell us more about your project Peekspan.
Niko: Yeah, definitely. So yeah, thank you so ⁓ stumbled upon ⁓ concept of peak span in a paper which was published. I'm sure you guys read it too. And then also, also by coincidence, I had a guest in my podcast also talking about peak span. So I was like, okay, this is amazing concept. then you, Sophie, wrote me ⁓ that you a new podcast, which is also called peak span. So this is quite amazing. ⁓
Sophie J. Spitzer: It's a great name.
Niko: I love the concept of peak span. I'm a big fan of half span rather than focusing on life span. really years in good health. ⁓ peak span kind of takes us to a new level. So this is why I find the concept amazing. And is also why I named my project, my N of one anecdotal experiment. Please don't take this as ⁓ good It's not, it's the lowest level of evidence out there, but this is why I named the project peak span. And what I'm doing there is basically, I said, for more than 10 years, I'm taking really good care of my body in a physical sense. So all of my biomarkers pretty much look good. Obviously not all of them, but most of them I'm quite fit. I have good strength, good muscles, whatever you want to call it, low body fat. So from a physiological standpoint, I'm quite fit. Obviously there are still some risks. For example, I have a genetic predisposition to a heart disease. have increased lipoprotein A. But nevertheless, the most important factor for me was when I was studying at Berkeley, I had burnout kind of, ⁓ like a panic disorder, which is a subset of anxiety disorders. ⁓ there I really was hit in the face ⁓ with important physiological health is, ⁓ like health, ⁓ all those factors, emotions, stress. ⁓ always, I never really focused on that. And this is why I wanted to start Project PeakSpan to get me from my lowest point, which was back then in Berkeley 2024 my peak again, ⁓ I wasn't ⁓ close to my peak when I was at Berkeley. I was pretty much at rock bottom. I couldn't do ⁓ I couldn't go to the gym. I pretty much couldn't do anything. Couldn't really concentrate when I was studying just because my mental health was quote unquote broken even. And so yeah, the project was really to get me into good shape again to get me even to my peak span. Yeah.
Alexandra Böhmer: did you set it Are you regularly tracking your data in there or what's the process?
Sophie J. Spitzer: ⁓
Niko: Yeah, I mean, I'm working at the longevity clinic. So this is quite convenient. Obviously I'm doing the checkup there, which I did twice already. First time was in the beginning of 2025. So right after hitting pretty much rock bottom, right in the middle of my panic disorder and right in the middle of me not doing sports for think three months it was back then, which I didn't do for like the past 10 years. I always went to the gym. always went jogging, always kept my shape, put the ⁓ on kinder. ⁓ then I did the test and pretty much everything looked not good at all. ⁓ mean, obviously my mental health, we do mental health questionnaires, they look terrible. I mean, that's for sure, but I knew that already. ⁓ my view to Max was really bad. My strength ⁓ were really bad. So pretty much all of this was... extremely bad. And then I also was wearing an aura ring, which I'm not right now, because I think it's better for your mental health if you're not wearing wearables, but that's another topic. And then I did regular blood work as well. Obviously I did it at my big check-in at years in the beginning of 2025. Then I also did two more blood draws as well to just take a look at the data. And then I think three months ago in the beginning of 2026, I did another check-in. at years at the clinic I'm working at and yeah, all of my values improved. ⁓ can say that, but that's kind of the methodology. That's kind of how the project works. But again, it's all anecdotal and of one data.
Sophie J. Spitzer: I would ⁓ love to pause for a moment and just ⁓ stay with what you said about wouldn't recommend people to wearables ⁓ their mental health. As a longevity influence, I feel like that is a big thing to say. Could you just elaborate a little more?
Niko: Yeah, for sure. So first of all, I'm not against wearing wearables in general. I'm just really waking up in the morning and first thing you do is checking your phone and then checking your hour ring or your whoop app or whatever and then checking your sleep score. You can listen to your body. That's really important. ⁓ you are tired, you probably didn't slap enough or not well enough. You don't need a ring or any wearable to tell you that. ⁓ For me, at least the most important factor is you need to listen to your body. then also obviously wearables also have a strength or have advantages to them. For example, if you do training, if you want to do zone two training, for example, or if you want to do interval training, obviously it's good to track your heart rate. For example, through whoop or whatever you name it doesn't really matter. That's definitely and I'm still wearing a wearable when I'm going ⁓ for example, when I'm doing interval training or when I'm going for zone two one. I think that's still really beneficial. What I'm not doing anymore is wearing a wing, for example, to sleep. don't find personally for me any value because mean, I pretty much know all of the things I need to do. For example, stop eating four hours before bed, need to keep the bedroom kind of closed, which in summer, obviously it's. ⁓ Yeah, it's not the easiest thing to do. room needs to be dark, no noises, all of this. I need to do this anyway. So yeah, for me, there's no real advantage there. And then also in terms of ⁓ measurement I don't think we are there yet that the devices are 100 % accurate. For example, I was wearing an aura ring and a ⁓ at the time, and the values differed. a lot, like by 10 to 20 percent. For example, I was wearing one year ago an Apple watch as well and it said I had a view to max of 55 ish and then I did real medical grade view to max analysis and it was more than 25 percent lower. So accuracy is kind of debatable. Yeah, mean some advantages, some disadvantages. You just really need to take this with a grain of salt, I think.
Sophie J. Spitzer: thank you. I ⁓ also personally stopped looking at my aura ⁓ score in the morning. Like I always check it maybe before going to bed or like when I check my aura app. But I just really stopped because it does have for me personally a big influence on my ⁓ awakeness during the day. Yeah. ⁓ would also love to... ⁓
Niko: ⁓ Yeah, I can imagine.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Take a little more space in understanding how your situation pre-breakdown, pre-burnout was. Like, could you walk us through where you I mean, you already mentioned Berkeley, but like, what was your routine? How did your life look like? And how did it get to that, to that breaking point?
Niko: Yeah, definitely. So prior to Berkeley, the past, I don't know, like four years-ish, was studying all of the time. I did side projects all of the time. ⁓ founded some nonprofits. I founded some student clubs. I was doing internships during my time studying in my bachelor's and master's. I did six internships, I think, ⁓ in which is quite a lot. So I never really had a ⁓ real break. Mostly always thinking about anything to bring my career forward, which I mean, did good things, obviously. And I'm also proud of that, but really drained my energy and my stress level was always, and I knew that back then as well, way too high. But back then I thought, okay, this, I mean, it doesn't matter. I'm still young. I can push through this, I couldn't. And I was also going to the gym pretty strictly, like five times a week. Mostly I did strength training, interval training, and some zone two cardio, mostly strength training and interval training. So this ⁓ put a lot of strain on my body. And then when I was in Berkeley, I real random courses, took like astrophysics, new technology, generative AI courses, which were all amazing, ⁓ but didn't anything about that stuff ⁓ except Generated AI maybe a bit. But this was really hard. then living abroad in a country, living with 10 people in one house was also an interesting experience. And then the gym even more because I had a good buddy of mine who was in the military. And obviously we then pushed each other. And all of this led to enormous stress. ⁓ kind of my body ⁓ broke down. kind of from one point to another. There were some warning signs, but not really that many, if I'm totally honest. mean, stressors were high, yeah, knew that, but no real warning signs. Just broke down from, yeah, from now to like two weeks after, I think, yeah. Was all in two weeks time approximately.
Sophie J. Spitzer: And was there like a trigger event or was it just like the pond was flowing over, like one drop and it was...
Niko: Yeah. Good question. I'm not 100 % sure. The first time I had a quote unquote attack, like a panic attack, wasn't a real full-fledged panic attack. This was different. I had that two weeks later. But when I was sitting a lecture, at a generative AI lecture at, I don't know, 6 PM or whatever, so was quite late and quite a stressful day. And then suddenly I got a wave of dizziness and really couldn't see for a few seconds. I was like, okay. the heck is going on now. Just drank a little bit of water and was like, okay, that's fine. I mean, that doesn't really matter. Probably not hydrated enough or whatever. But then following days, I dizziness attacks again and again. was like, hmm, that's kind of weird. ⁓ But I just pushed this ⁓ to side and thought, okay, let me just push through. And then when I was at the gym doing strength training, two weeks after my first and quote unquote attack. I had a real panic attack and was like, okay, am I dying now? ⁓ in the world is happening? ⁓ felt like I'm having a heart attack. Obviously I don't know how it feels like to have a heart attack, but I think this is what it feels like ⁓ and recommend definitely. And then went to the ER, but that's pretty much the process went through. And this is how I see Obviously, I don't know, maybe... If you're completely objectively, maybe there were some warning signs, but I just pushed them to the side, but this how I saw it retrospectively, I guess.
Sophie J. Spitzer: interesting actually now that I think about it. I also struggled with panic attacks and anxiety disorder for the past two to three years. And my first panic attack, full-fledged where I also thought I was going to have a heart attack, was in my exchange semester in Boston, taking on a lot of courses, doing a lot of sport, know, doing all the things quote unquote right. And I think, yeah, think thinking about it now, it's this feeling of dangerously disembodied. I heard this term recently and I think that that fits really well. Like you think you do everything right, but your body actually starts to scream, but you're not able to connect these dots yet.
Niko: This fits pretty well, yeah. ⁓ agree.
Alexandra Böhmer: Nico, you were mentioning before that you started tracking all your biomarkers, especially since you're working a longevity clinic now. ⁓ was it before your breakdown? Did you have any data already besides ⁓ the variables? Okay, cool.
Niko: Yeah, a lot of data, maybe too much data even. Maybe this was also ⁓ something which increased my stress levels. ⁓ when was in Berkeley, ⁓ I also to get deep into the longevity health ecosystem, especially in San Francisco and the Bay area in general, because it's super exciting and it still is super exciting. So for example, I took the function testing from Mark Hyman. They have think 100 something biomarkers and which get checked at twice. And they did both checks. First one before my panic attack, second one after. ⁓ But ⁓ was nothing really pointing towards the direction that ⁓ I was having a panic disorder or I was getting panic attacks. ⁓ interesting. Then I also took genetic testing, which is the thing ⁓ I wouldn't take again. That's for sure because were lifestyle genetic tests. This was a whole genome sequencing, which I did with a company I can't remember the name of, but probably better for them. ⁓ just hand you a PDF document or pretty much an online portal with a bunch of information. I mean, there were 1000 different things I had ⁓ on. ⁓ And if you look at the data, there is real value in medical grade genome analysis. For example, APOE4, which has real causal predictive power for neurodegenerative diseases, or the breakout genes, which have real predictive power for breast cancer, especially in women, but also some different cancers in men. So this really has ⁓ ability, so to say. ⁓ then there's also lifestyle genetics, where you look at all sorts of different things. And here the interesting thing is they just put two things together. For example, you have degenerative part where they look at APOE4, which is insanely validated. There's a bunch of data. This is 100 % causal. There's a causal relationship there. And then you have, for example, knee pain. ⁓ They me ⁓ I'm likely to have knee pain. Just a weird example. ⁓ This is based on maybe a random mouse study done in somewhere Eastern Europe or whatever. Doesn't really matter, not even done in humans. So you can compare those two things. And then obviously they gave me risk factors for all sorts of different stuff. And I was just really stressed out because I was like, whoa, that's a lot of information, not a lot of actionability. What am I even going to do with this? So yeah, this I wouldn't do again. ⁓ couldn't recommend to anyone, to be honest. I don't think there's a lot of there. There are good companies out there, but I wouldn't do the full-fledged lifestyle genetic testing. Can't recommend. but ⁓ to answer question, I did a lot of testing as you can imagine before that as well. Yeah. Also more blood loss. did microbiome testing and yeah, quite a lot.
Alexandra Böhmer: Okay, super interesting. I assume, or you also said before, ⁓ all your biomarkers are much better now than they were in 2024 when this all happened. ⁓ ⁓ looking back at your data back then, could you have ⁓ from the data back then that you were not in a good mental space?
Niko: Yeah. Yeah. No, not really. Definitely ⁓ I would even say. I mean, even my morning cortisol levels were fine, which I had measured at Health. Obviously didn't do the full stretch. just forgot the name, but four times a day, cortisol testing didn't do that one. Maybe there I would have caught it. I don't know, not entirely sure. ⁓ But from all the data I gathered, ⁓ I ⁓ couldn't ⁓
Alexandra Böhmer: Okay. And what do you think is the relationship between, doing, Sophie said it before, doing everything right, doing all the protocols right and still not feeling great in your own body or not feeling safe in your own body?
Niko: Yeah, that's quite interesting because was maybe doing, ⁓ maybe, I was definitely doing way too much things all at once as well. ⁓ was really into this optimization field. I was eating pretty much perfectly for my own body. If there is a perfect, not sure, especially in regards to nutrition, ⁓ I was doing like pretty much everything right in regards to nutrition. I was going to the gym six times a week, but all of this together combined with the mental stress I had because I was living with 10 people I didn't know in a different country, 10 hours time to my home country where my girlfriend was already, ⁓ was at, ⁓ then interesting but really stressful courses at one of the universities in the world. ⁓ All of this in total just way too much stress load. So I think you can over optimize and I'm pretty sure I over optimized, especially the wrong things. I should have over optimized recovery. ⁓ And example, breath work or doing yin yoga or doing anything which is beneficial for your own recovery, taking days off, even going in nature, going hiking for a few days, which I even did, but still there, also thought about work and study in ⁓ uni of the time. So also wasn't really beneficial. Getting the steps in which generally is beneficial, but then you should try to keep a calm mind as well, which I didn't do.
Alexandra Böhmer: getting the steps in.
Niko: So yeah, I pretty much over optimized over the wrong things. Yeah.
Alexandra Böhmer: I mean, guess what happened to you there is ⁓ rare, especially for ⁓ achievers or peak performers, ⁓ over-optimizing, ⁓ think Sophie, you know it as well, I know it as well, and forgetting the mind as ⁓ an aspect in there. ⁓ How you think is that addressed in general in the longevity space from your perspective?
Niko: not enough, ⁓ clearly not enough. And there's even really good data on mental health, ⁓ even ⁓ on things like living in a good community. For example, there was a Harvard study, it was epidemiological, it was a public health study, ⁓ and found the number one predictor of good, I think it was lifespan on health, I'm not entirely sure, I would need to look that up, but was community sense of belonging, like factors. influencing mental health and your general sense of happiness, your resilience, all of this. So I think there's amazing data on mental health aspects surrounding mental health as well. Like community, would also say this is really beneficial and really important for mental health. But in the longevity space, especially on social media, it's not talked about enough. Most people talk even about the 2%, 1 % that don't even move the needle that much. really deep bio hacks, which maybe do something. We are not entirely sure yet for most of them even, and not talking enough about the basics and mental health for me is part of the basic. It's not only nutrition, sleep, sports, but it's also stress management. It's also mental health in general, feeling fine, having a sense of belonging, having friends and spending time with friends and family. So yeah, in my opinion, not talked about enough, ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah, not talked about enough.
Alexandra Böhmer: Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's why we started this podcast talking about the mental aspects of longevity, because it's such an important debate. And I'm wondering in your journey, did you manage to pivot basically from ⁓ my head or how I understand it, it's when we are used to doing so much ⁓ ⁓ doing becomes the problem because we are overdoing things. The antidote is not doing anymore and it's basically more being. ⁓ Being is something we can't, it's more difficult to do because you can't really do it. And I'm just wondering how did you pivot and how did you adapt to a recovery lifestyle basically?
Niko: Yeah. First of all, let me say I'm still not there yet. I'm still having way too much stress. ⁓ is ⁓ not great. It's fine. But my stress levels still way too I don't really live in the moment most of the time. So I'm quite aware of that. That being said, it's way better than like a couple of years ago, but still far from perfect. So that's the first thing I want to say. Yeah. So the second thing I want to say is that for me, was really forced to pivoting, pretty much, to be totally honest. It wasn't really a choice for me because when I was having my breakdown in Berkeley, I couldn't really live anymore. Even if that sounds harsh, I wasn't feeling well in my body. I couldn't concentrate. pretty much couldn't do anything anymore. Couldn't go to the gym because I was extremely afraid and scared of the gym because there was the moment when I had my first panic attack. So I needed to change something. There wasn't even an option for me. And I hope for most people out there, there still is an option for them to change on their own because I wouldn't wish anyone the experience I went through, for example, you, Sophie, also went through. this isn't a pleasant experience. You learn a lot. That's for sure. But yeah, for me, ⁓ I only one option, which was to recover, to pivot towards ⁓ focusing on recovery, I did by not going to the ⁓ gym, for example, hardcore strength training. Only did zone two exercise during that time because this wasn't draining my energy levels ⁓ and ⁓ just... is way more relaxing for your body. better for your parasympathetic nervous system, which wasn't active at all probably in my body ⁓ that time. So I really needed to work on that. Was on my breath work, ⁓ was yin yoga, but all of that because I was forced to do it pretty much. Now I'm grateful ⁓ that was forced to do it because I'm still doing it and it's super beneficial for my health. But yeah, for me it was an option. I just was pretty much forced to pivot.
Alexandra Böhmer: Makes a little sense. And I'm still wondering, because I would like to dig a little bit deeper here, because I remember when I was in a clinic myself, I brought my high achiever mind into the clinic and I had more than 17 therapy sessions a week. And after four weeks, I had another burnout within the clinic. And my, the head of the clinic basically came to me and said, you know what, you're doing everything right from the outside, but
Niko: Mm.
Alexandra Böhmer: what's not working for you is like how you handle things in the inside. Like you're causing the stress and in the beginning I was like what is she talking about? And then it made total sense for me so I think yes I had to change as well because there was no other option but still aware of it first. So I'm wondering what happened for you.
Niko: Yeah. First of all, I had the same experience in one of my first therapy sessions. I was like, okay, give me one, two, three things I need to do now. Let me just work on that. And that's totally fine. And then she was like, no, that's not how it's, that's not how it works. And I was like, what do you mean? I just want to work on those things and then it's all going to be good again. So I had pretty much the same realization as you also needed to put my high achieving performance mindset away for that. And then pretty much through a process by time, I would say, changed my mindset a bit, got used to being more present, got used to the fact that this will take time. And for me, took approximately one year to get completely rid of the panic disorder and to just have this realization that it needs to take a lot of time, that it can't work like in two, three, four weeks. This is simply not possible for me. This realization helped a lot because when I realized this, I knew I needed to change my mindset. knew I needed to change the way I see, this disease, if you to call it disease, this problem even, ⁓ and this was really turning point for me. So I think it was just a process by time, just, just over time, I got used to the fact that, okay, this will take time. Okay, you need to take care of your mental health by doing things slower, by not doing everything all at once. was just a realization over time, I think, for me personally.
Sophie J. Spitzer: I would like to ask something maybe a little on the controversial side. of what I'm observing and I think for Alexandra in her practices has also observed this, you can tell people a lot, you you have to focus on recovery, downtime is important, you you need to get the balance. But for many, they hear it, but they don't receive it. So my question here is, I mean, to all of us, right, is a breakdown in some capacity needed in order for us to get the severity of changing. And Nico, what do you think you would have needed to hear before the breakdown that would have convinced you to take a different route?
Niko: This is a really good question. And the second part, I'm not sure. I actually don't know. I mean, I knew that nutrition is important, sleep is important, going to the gym is important, going for a run is important. I think I also knew, I'm pretty sure I knew that mental health is important as well, that stress levels are important as well. But just by a matter of fact, I I wanted to have a good career. I wanted to work hard. I wanted to achieve great things. So I just thought, okay, those two things don't really work great together, which I would now disagree. think there are ways have them work together. But think for me, probably the breakdown ⁓ was only the ⁓ only which could have convinced me completely to not only focus on career and ⁓ physical but also focus ⁓ on mental health. I think this really depends on the type of person you are. So I don't think that everybody needs to have a breakdown. think also, for example, just listening to this podcast and us sharing our experiences, maybe, hopefully, will convince some people that they sometimes need to take a break, that they sometimes need to do breath work, for example, or yin yoga. I'm really loving yin yoga, by the way. don't know if you noticed already. And it's just one hour a week or like maybe two hours a week. And it's really easy to incorporate. Just saying. I think for a lot of people, could work by listening to podcasts, just really knowing what it feels like, hearing this from other people, this could eventually also push them towards this direction. And also maybe on social media, more people talking about the subject, more people talking about how it feels like and what you can actually do in order to be at ⁓ performing level, also in your job, in your career or whatever, and also keeping... ⁓ track of your mental health as well. So it really depends for me probably was the only choice for most people. hope, really hope ⁓ it's not the only choice.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Let's switch gears. You're also ⁓ I would say, ⁓ longevity expert, a LinkedIn top voice ⁓ on the matter longevity. So ⁓ we're very curious hop into that block of the questions now. ⁓ What is your number one longevity that you're tired of hearing? and maybe you can then give us a little more.
Niko: Good question. This is for me personally really hard to answer because I have the big open mind. I love new ideas. I love reading about new research, about even new stuff which has only mechanistic evidence. So it's interesting on a biological standpoint, isn't really interesting from a clinical effectiveness or clinically meaningful. so to say, standpoint, so from a research side of things, really open to this. And I love reading all of this. What I'm not loving is that a lot of people are pushing stuff like this. For example, longevity peptides, quote unquote, longevity peptides. And most people know what I mean when I say this. For example, BPC 157 or TB 500 or whatever, you name it. There are quite a lot of peptides out there. So first of all, for the people who don't know, peptides are pretty much signaling molecules, they are just chains of amino acid. And for example, insulin is a peptide, we all know. So they definitely hold a lot meaningful body functions or GLP1s, or Ozempic for example, it's a peptide as well. So those fall in the same category, but, and kind of they do not, because for example, GLP1s, have like a huge ton of RCTs, randomized control trials done on humans. We have outcome data for GLP1s. We know what they do. We know their safety profile. We don't really know the long, long term safety profile. So that's still up for debate, but we still, we know a lot. We know how they work. We know the side effects. We know most of this to a good extent, at least. We do not know this for most the longevity peptides, BPC1570, B500, whatever name it. So in my view, things are still extremely interesting because They are really interesting you look at mechanistic data. They are really interesting when you look at anecdotal stories. Again, my Peekspan project is an anecdotal story as well. I still think they hold some value, but you definitely should take this with a big grain of salt. And what I'm hating is that people are just pushing them social media saying, they are super safe. Oh, they are doing X, Y, and Z 100%. They are just way too sure about all of this. I would be really appreciative if people would just be more honest on those subjects, if they would really just say, OK, this is the mechanistic evidence. We don't really have that much human data. This is what it should do in theory. In practice, it could look completely different. We don't really know yet. But maybe if you want to try it out, if you have any side effects, talk to your practitioner. maybe do an N of 1 experiment with them under medical guidance. This would be completely different than just having people buy those things on the gray market because they heard on social media that things are amazing and everybody should take them. And if you don't take them, you're stupid. I hate that. I would love for honesty. I would love for more open-mindedness. But yeah, just... way less bullshit and way less over promise and more honesty would be greatly needed. And peptides are just one example. are way more examples. There are also like some exosome or stem cell therapies pushed, in like some highland countries that's legal in most other countries. It's not legal. ⁓ There are influencers pushing this. Again, this is all super interesting and I hope to see some more research on this ⁓ and I that... the research will get funded. is another issue. Maybe even more real-world evidence at least. This is also a ⁓ which is really interesting to me. yeah, ⁓ don't overhype it. ⁓ over promise all of the time. That's what's ⁓ much annoying me the most. ⁓
Sophie J. Spitzer: I mean you were really very very detailed and technical already if we talk about you know more mainstream longevity myths what is like one or two where you're like ⁓ know everyone is listening like that's BS. ⁓
Niko: Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, mean supplements probably. mean, most people have heard about supplements and don't get me wrong. For example, if you live in Germany, you will most likely have a vitamin D deficiency, especially in winter. Don't get me wrong. It's probably also not bad to take magnesium, especially if you, for example, have constant headaches. Please then go to a doctor as well. magnesium for that, for example, is interesting. Or ⁓ omega-3. Data is a bit mixed, maybe even some negative outcomes, but still, mean, maybe this is interesting. So there are some supplements out there. Or if you have a vitamin B deficiency, for example, in vegans or vegetarians, obviously, please address this. Please address this. Please measure it, then address it, and then measure it again, and then check, okay, where you stand. This is all completely fine. But probably it's not really necessary, good, beneficial even to take 100 different supplements where there is Interesting, again, mechanistic data, probably some mouse studies, even some small human case studies. ⁓ first of all, we don't know how they mix. If you take 100 different ⁓ all at once, we don't really know how they interact. And for most of them, most likely we don't have good evidence on them. Still, as I said, if you want to try them out, especially under medical guidance, think that's up to you, totally. as long as you're educated in terms of safety profile and that there isn't that much data on there, that, ⁓ most of the things you're hearing, they are just over promising. So for most people, you don't need that many supplements. You should first focus on the basics, which are sleep, sports, nutrition, and then as I said, mental health, really, really important ⁓ resilience, all of this focus on this first and then especially address deficiencies. And if you want to experiment with some supplements which have maybe good case studies or some human data at least, yeah, just measure, talk to a practitioner, find a good practitioner up for this, measure especially ⁓ at profiles. ⁓ Yeah, and there's also the placebo effect. So if it doesn't work, maybe it still works. ⁓
Sophie J. Spitzer: We love a good placebo. the flip what is a longevity hack or direction that you are seeing right now that might be new and that you're testing and loving at the moment?
Niko: Yeah. That's a good question. mean, probably the honest answer is nothing really. That would be the honest answer because most of the things out there, are, as I said, for me personally, really interesting. From a only medical standpoint, most of the things are not interesting at all because we are just lacking evidence. And for real medical decisions, we normally need a lot of evidence. We need RCTs. We need Mendelian randomization studies. We need meta-analysis of big RCTs. So we needed a lot of data, a lot of safety data, a lot of efficacy data. And we just simply don't have this for most, maybe all, all longevity interventions pushed on social media at least. For me, it always comes down to the basics. And this is also what I realize all of the time that this is really the thing most people need to on more and they don't need to take all of those substances. In the case that the basics are perfect, ⁓ maybe experimenting with some supplements ⁓ calcium alpha ketoglutawid, for example, is interesting to me. Take this again with a grain of salt. There is some evidence, ⁓ example, National University of Singapore has published a study under Andrea Meyer, think. ⁓ It's interesting, mechanistically interesting. I'm just experimenting with it, to be totally Yeah, you should definitely take this with a grain of salt and talk to your practitioner physician, do your own research. But this is something, which I'm in.
Sophie J. Spitzer: And I guess we would also see that on your project peak span, right? You're documenting, you would be documenting it there. Yeah. And from that, right, since you've been tracking, what is, if you had to name one intervention that really surprised you in like positive effects and one that was like a zero.
Niko: Yes, definitely. Definitely. Yep. ⁓ yeah, the best one was Yin Yoga. I I talked about this three or four, five times maybe even now. But this really was the thing which surprised me the most because I was always in this high achieving mindset doing all of the things all together all at once. And then suddenly I was one hour just sitting there pretty much doing nothing, holding positions for four minutes, three to five minutes.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Beautiful.
Niko: And then in the end, even laying down doing nothing, I was like, what the heck am I doing here? And the first two to three sessions, I couldn't concentrate at all. was just, I just wanted to leave pretty much. I was like, okay, I cannot do this. This is impossible for me. But I kept going. And after the third time, I really enjoyed it. I really could calm down. example, yesterday I was at the yin yoga session again and I almost fell asleep. ⁓ That never happened to me before. I can't even fall asleep on the couch, for example. Definitely not in a plane or any other transportation modes. But yesterday I almost fell asleep. So I think this says a lot and this says enough. So I would encourage everyone to try this out. And then one thing which didn't work. mean, depends. mean, in terms of testing, wouldn't recommend to do.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Hmm.
Niko: lifestyle genetic testing pretty much to anyone except you're really looking for something specific, but then maybe only look at this or have a practitioner look at this and then have them tell you and you not having to worry about 1000 data points. So from a testing perspective, that's it. And then like, mean, five years ago, I took way more supplements than I'm doing right now. For example, I took some antioxidants like OPC or different, different other Probably wouldn't take them now because also we need oxidative stress. This is also a way of signaling. For example, in lungs, we definitely need this. So we don't want to bring oxidative stress to zero. We just want to find a balance. So yeah, for example, I think antioxidants for most people are overrated, I would say at least. For me, they were at least, yeah.
Alexandra Böhmer: super interesting. And maybe when we look at the peak span audience or for someone in the peak span audience who thinks, well, I haven't had a panning attack yet and if you can't see it in the data and I think I'm pretty much doing everything right, what's the one thing that you want them to hear or to take away from your insights?
Niko: Yeah. Just really try to listen to your body. Your body tells you a lot of stuff, which you're most likely not aware of. mean, for me, I had ⁓ due too much stress. Didn't listen to that. My heart, heart rate was sometimes elevated. Didn't listen to that. And then the dizziness attacks I had, didn't listen to that as well. So when your body is trying to tell you something, try to listen and also actively try to see if your body is, or if your body wants to tell you something. Because in today's times we are pretty much spending most of the time just looking at something, at least at your phone, at your computer screen, ⁓ to people. Talking to people is good, but you, most of the time in today's times don't really have time to think, ⁓ be on your own, to... do pretty much nothing. So I would encourage people to do that and then maybe your body will speak to you as well.
Alexandra Böhmer: Yeah, I think that's key, listening to your body and the body is communicating actually with us and it's not doing something to annoy us. I think that's first of all. But for someone who, and I guess that's a key problem because some people don't have a connection to their body. Like how can you maybe from your experience build this connection and actually, because you also said like you were not listening to your signals. How can you build this relationship that you can actually get in tune with your own body?
Niko: Yeah. Yeah, this is really hard. At least it was really hard for me. It's super individual. mean, it differs for every person, obviously. But for me, Key was really having time to think. Really, for example, going on a walk without your phone for like one hour, just thinking, just trying feel emotions ⁓ as which I'm not really good at. My girlfriend ⁓ will you this as well. ⁓ She always says that I'm not good at emotions, which I agree. So for me, this topic is hard as well. just really, I mean, try to hear your inner voice. Try to have moments at least every week, best case every time, where you are actively just sitting there or going for a walk in nature, best case, and just thinking, just... let your brain do its thing. Not looking at the phone, not looking at social media. This is what helped me most. And I think for a lot of people, this will help them as well. I assume at least.
Alexandra Böhmer: I think so too. So now Nico, we're coming to an end. ⁓ the we would like to give you a chance to ⁓ tell us bit more about your own projects. I know you just launched your own ⁓ podcast project in the of 2026. Maybe you can tell us a bit about what is it about? Return on Health ⁓ is the name, ⁓ I recall.
Niko: Yes, that's the name. And as the name suggests, me and my co-host, Miguel, which I explained also, which I met during my Masters in Lisbon, we were both just from a passion side of things, really into health. And we were talking about health all of the time, really all of the time. All of our friends were annoyed. So, and then we thought, okay, why not just put a microphone in front of us and press record while we are talking and then invite great guests. So that's pretty much the project. We try to invite everybody. ⁓ we really want to listen to different voices, to different opinions. really want to challenge them, which I think is super, super important ⁓ in most big podcasts, people can just make every claim out there and they don't get challenged. So we wanted to change that. yeah, that's pretty much a project. We just want to educate people on things that work for health so ⁓ that can optimize for the variable in life, which is most important, health. And that's ⁓ where name comes in, Return on Health. I mean, I'm coming from a business ⁓ background, so always talking about return on invest, but the best invest is in your health. that's how the name pretty much.
Alexandra Böhmer: Amazing. We're definitely going to link it in the show notes. So everyone who's interested can check it out there. And how can people best find you, Nico?
Niko: Probably best at LinkedIn, Nico Hems, and then also on my website where I publish my data through project Peekspan. And then also will also find my newsletter, which is called Beyond the Hype, ⁓ I think fits. ⁓ ⁓ it's completely free. You can subscribe. You will get ⁓ insights every two weeks.
Alexandra Böhmer: Amazing, we also put this in the show notes. So thank you so much. It has been very insightful. Also, thank you so much for ⁓ your personal story here with us for the first time. ⁓ ⁓ I'm going to hand over to Sophie now for our final question.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Yes, we have a closing tradition. So my final question to you is, Nico, how does it feel when you're at your peak?
Niko: Good question. I'm not sure that I reached my peak yet. So an interesting learning I had, I think. I always thought I was at my peak, but I clearly wasn't because I just not looking at my mental health at all. Just not recognizing how important this is at all. And I mean, I'm way better off now than I was before, but I... Definitely wouldn't say that I'm at my peak yet. I'm still working towards this. And this is also why the project is named Project PeakSpan to first reach peak and then try to hold it as long as possible. But I wouldn't say I'm quite there yet. So I hope to know how it feels in the future. But for me, probably the most important factor is that I'm just calm, that I have high resilience, that I'm living in the moment. This is really, really important for me and I'm really bad at it. Sadly, and I think most people are, I'm not judging, but this is just my observation. So for me, this is how I think it feels like. I couldn't tell you how it feels like because I'm just not there yet.
Alexandra Böhmer: then we'll have to invite you again once you're there to tell us then.
Niko: Hopefully soon.
Alexandra Böhmer: Amazing, thank you so much Nico. It's been a pleasure.
Sophie J. Spitzer: Yeah, thank you so much.
Niko: Thank you so much.
