We sat down with our competition - and shared our business secrets.

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If Alex is surfing in her underwear, we'll put it here.
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We'll make it part of the trailer.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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Yeah.
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All right, man.
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Thank you.
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Good seeing you guys.
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First guest.
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Thanks for coming on this way.
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First guest.
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Picked up a camera.
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And you started shooting real estate.
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I don't think I was having that right.
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What the heck?
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How do you go from DJ Big Phil to real estate photographer?
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I always had a business sense.
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And it wasn't just me.
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It was my partner at the time and influences around yourself.
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Okay.
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I was renting properties in Walu.
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How old were you?
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How old were you?
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20.
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I remember buying my first property in Waterloo, right by the University of Laurier.
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I'm like, I'm buying a rental.
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Phil, if you had to start over and for some reason you were never going to get to do this again, what would you do?
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Welcome back to Outwork, the show about real estate media, but really much more than that.
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Yes, we talk about business, but really at the heart of it, we're talking about the lifestyle we're all trying to build around it.
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I'm Oliver Ward, and I co-host this thing with Alex Coombs.
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Today is a special episode.
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We've got our first ever guest.
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Phil Murrian is the co-founder and chief operating officer of Visual Advantage.
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He's been at it since I think before Alex was born in 2009.
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He's built a team of around 20 people and somehow has employees who have stuck around for 10 to 15 years.
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So naturally, we wanted to know, what the hell is Phil doing differently?
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We get into it.
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Scaling, hiring, competition.
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The conversation gets even more interesting when we start talking about exit strategies, the big one.
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And an even bigger question, when is enough enough?
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Something I think about all the time.
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All right, let's get into it.
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Our first ever episode, sorry, our first ever guest, Big Phil.
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Big Phil.
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All right, we're set up, and we're actually unsure of your last name, how to say it.
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Marion?
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If you drop the I, it's moron.
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Let's stay away from that.
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Okay.
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I was once in court finding a speeding ticket, and the guy's like, or the girl was like, I had to agree to whatever the charge, and then they're like...
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okay, Phil Moron, you agree to that.
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And she kept saying Moron like 20 times, right?
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I was like, wow.
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And there's like 50 people in the courthouse like, his last name is Moron.
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So it's Morion.
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Morion.
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Morion.
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Morion.
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No, I don't think you're saying it right yet, Alex.
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Morion.
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Morion.
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Morion.
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In French, it's like Morion.
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Morion.
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So we're at Philippe Morion.
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Yeah.
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uh we're at your house in your what would you call this your muskoka room oh no parry sound room what do you call these rooms well yeah i guess we're not in muskoka technically parry sound yeah uh people call it muskoka room still yeah yeah so we're here to chat with you alex and i are very excited to get to know more about you to pick your brain about your business yeah um for our listeners can you just give us a quick just just a little summary of who you are what you've built and what your business is all about
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Yeah, so Phil Murray, I'm from Visual Advantage, founder, and started the business about 17 years ago when things were very different back then, as you can imagine.
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And yeah, grew to what it is today.
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We got up to 24 at one point, COVID times when it was crazy wild.
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And now I think we're down a little bit to 20 with editors and all that stuff, 21.
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So admin staff, we're big on customer service.
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We have quite a big customer service staff.
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So it's good.
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Yeah.
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So we grew to being probably one of the top in our region.
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Like you guys are probably up there as well.
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There's no real scale of anything at this point, but like, yeah, I'd say we do quite well.
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Have you ever looked at your market share?
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Is that something you're aware of?
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You know, back in the days when I first started in Guelph and I started like taking names and really like,
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pumping up the business in a way that nobody else was doing it back then.
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I think I was doing like 90% of the virtual tours are being done.
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Now there's still a lot of people doing their own photos and stuff, but we got to 90% like it was a lot.
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I remember checking that out and it was like, I was impressed by the amount that we did versus our competitors.
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And it wasn't a lot of competitors back then.
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So it was easy to figure out, right?
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Nowadays it's like, there's so many people.
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So many people doing what we do in a way.
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Do they do it well?
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I don't know.
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But yeah, it's a different question.
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Right.
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All right.
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So I know before we start, I said I have a game I want to play because last time we I came here about a month and a half ago.
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That's right.
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We did some wake surfing.
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Yeah.
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And we're going to do it again today.
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Unfortunately, the weather didn't agree with us.
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But we chatted afterwards for quite a while.
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And he kept on threatening to make food.
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And I kept on saying no.
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I should have said yes because I was starving.
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Yeah, you must have been.
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I was like, you sure you don't want to make anything?
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But we talked a little bit about Alex because we always talk about people when they're not around.
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Yeah.
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And you told, because I was like, how old is Alex?
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And you told me an age.
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And I didn't know.
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I actually don't know how.
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I know now how old she is.
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I didn't know then.
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So the game I want to play is how old is Alex?
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According to Phil.
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Oh, man.
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um i love it i know it's a hot seat but yeah is there a range i'm going with or am i going with i can get your age after too because i don't know how old you are okay good yeah yeah for sure you have to try uh you know throw me in there too yes my age too okay i say alex 32 love that thank god
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Survey says?
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37.
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Okay.
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My other guess was 36.
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So I was still under.
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You know what's funny though?
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Because when we chatted, you pegged her like early 20s.
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Did I really?
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I don't know if you had fallen on the white survey.
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I don't know.
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We had a few beers.
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Early 20s?
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I just remember clocking that like, and you know what?
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Memory is a bitch.
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So who knows what I really remember.
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But I just remember like, there's no way she's fucking that young.
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No.
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But it put that in my head.
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And then we were chatting and we were starting the podcast.
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And Alex was like, I'm like, we were getting to know each other.
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And she told me her resume of like being a professor at Mohawk College and doing this and a hack company and a DJ.
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And I'm like, who is this?
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I used to be a DJ.
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Did you?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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look at that i was a music producer um i was in a band for a long time playing drums that's wicked yeah what was your dj name i forget moron dj moron in the house uh it was dj what was it
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You can't forget your DJ name.
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But it was like, I don't know.
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I was like, I was doing schools and stuff.
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It's not like I was like.
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Okay.
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I don't know what you were doing, but I was like, I was doing Mohawk College.
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Okay.
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No, sorry.
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Sheridan College and McMaster University.
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Like, those kinds of gigs.
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And I was helping out.
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I didn't really have a DJ name.
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Like, BPM was like my thing.
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Like, or, yeah.
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It was like.
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So I started producing music with...
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I was doing rap music.
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I was doing all the music for the rappers.
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Cool.
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And the rappers were like... And I was a small, skinny guy back then.
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So they're like...
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we're going to call you big Phil.
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Cause it was complete opposite.
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Yeah.
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You imagine some, you know, bigger guy and it was just anyway.
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So DJ, big Phil, big Phil.
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Yeah.
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I don't, I never used that as a DJ name though, but I love it.
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I was a DJ arts and crafts.
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Yeah.
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Arts and crafts.
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Yeah.
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Just create.
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Yeah.
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It was DJ arts and crafts.
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I don't know.
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Like it stuck.
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Yeah.
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People then knew me as DJ arts and crafts.
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It's just something like people always try and figure out or try to find photos of me DJing.
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And I don't know.
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It's not an embarrassing time, but it was just like a time where it's just like I was doing something super random.
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But I stopped doing it because I was so tired of getting home at like three o'clock in the morning.
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I was going to say, I thought you were going to say I was so tired of getting the requests.
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oh that's true that was the worst you playing on your ipod it's like no i'm not doing for us it was like doing mcmaster university you're like you know the young yeah kids are like you haven't played my song yet you know they're like that and you're all mad yeah they're mad it's like i don't have this song downloaded and they're like well put it on my phone and you're like no i'm not doing that okay i'm gonna guess your age i'm gonna say you're 43
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But thank you.
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45.
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Nope.
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Wow.
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What?
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I know.
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I think I know.
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Do you?
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Yeah, you probably know.
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Yeah.
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Well, I'll tell you what I think I know once you're locking in.
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Okay, I'm going to say, I'll say 45 because he was shocked by 43.
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Oh.
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Or 42, whatever I said the first time.
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Hmm.
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That's conservative.
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Yeah.
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Is it?
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Based on the shock value.
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Yeah.
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So I think I remember when we were wake surfing that you were complaining about being 50.
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Yeah, well, I'm getting there.
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Yeah, I'm real close.
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49.
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Okay, so you're not 50.
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48.
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48.
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Still crushing.
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That's right.
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Wow, yeah, for sure.
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Yeah, 48.
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It feels funny that you think you're almost at 50.
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Yeah.
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It's a different vibe.
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I think it's people.
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Somebody said to me the other day that you reflect back on your life at 50.
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What have I done?
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What have I accomplished?
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Mm-hmm.
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I also think always like when you're on your deathbed, there's no way you're thinking how much money I made that month.
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You're thinking the experiences you've had with your friends, the places you've been, like that's what you're really thinking about.
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Right.
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So I always find myself as I get older, being a little more cautious of that or conscious of that.
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Sorry.
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Versus just business, business, business, which I used to be.
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Yeah.
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So I'm almost, I'm kind of like you are a little bit more with the, uh,
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Well, you are too, but like just the experiences with the business, you know what I mean?
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Like just having those two balance out.
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And I'm, I'm a big fan of that.
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And maybe to like, I look at the guys from the U S some of the guys are doing like crazy numbers and they're like across, you know, multiple States and good for them.
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Like I talked to Brad a lot and I think he's, he's amazing at what he does.
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Yeah.
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But I'm also like, I don't do that.
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Like, I'm also like at a point in my life where I'm like, I'm happy with what I've created.
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You know what I mean?
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Like.
250
00:10:34.112 --> 00:10:34.952
Can we have more growth?
251
00:10:34.972 --> 00:10:35.193
Yeah.
252
00:10:35.473 --> 00:10:39.395
But does it need to be so stressful or all I'm doing all summer is that?
253
00:10:40.155 --> 00:10:41.456
I don't know if I can.
254
00:10:42.156 --> 00:10:44.358
Like I treat my business like a garden.
255
00:10:44.918 --> 00:10:45.258
Okay.
256
00:10:45.378 --> 00:10:52.162
So where I'll like water it and set it up really good in the spring, like early spring, like winter or spring.
257
00:10:52.762 --> 00:10:56.564
And then summer comes and I'm like, okay, let it do its thing.
258
00:10:56.604 --> 00:10:57.925
It's working really well.
259
00:10:57.945 --> 00:11:01.747
I'm not changing anything in the middle of summer because it's our busy time too.
260
00:11:01.807 --> 00:11:02.027
Yeah.
261
00:11:02.067 --> 00:11:02.688
Like spring is.
262
00:11:02.728 --> 00:11:02.888
But.
263
00:11:03.628 --> 00:11:07.309
Like that's where I'm just, I like to water the garden, let it flourish.
264
00:11:07.610 --> 00:11:13.572
And then, you know, so that's when I take my vacation is essentially summertime, right?
265
00:11:13.692 --> 00:11:14.192
And you're busy.
266
00:11:14.212 --> 00:11:14.912
That's why we're here.
267
00:11:15.292 --> 00:11:16.373
We're taking a break now.
268
00:11:16.593 --> 00:11:21.015
I want to ask Oliver a hot seat question sponsored by HD Photo Hub.
269
00:11:21.695 --> 00:11:22.535
HD Photo Hub.
270
00:11:22.915 --> 00:11:23.936
HD Photo Hub.
271
00:11:24.896 --> 00:11:30.038
If you were to drop one service in your business for a year, what would you drop?
272
00:11:30.694 --> 00:11:31.614
Good question.
273
00:11:31.815 --> 00:11:32.455
I'll say this.
274
00:11:32.895 --> 00:11:35.436
Everyone calls asking for photos, obviously.
275
00:11:36.077 --> 00:11:39.699
Almost everyone now says, do you have measurements in your floor plan?
276
00:11:39.739 --> 00:11:41.540
So that's super popular.
277
00:11:41.560 --> 00:11:46.842
I don't want to say video though, because that's where my package is like supersize.
278
00:11:47.763 --> 00:11:55.027
So honestly, if I had to get rid of something and I hate to say it because I love them so much, but I'd probably get rid of virtual tours.
279
00:11:55.047 --> 00:11:55.687
Yeah.
280
00:11:56.150 --> 00:12:03.535
In Canada, in Costa Rica, actually in Costa Rica, I'd get rid of floor plans because no one looks at them.
281
00:12:03.655 --> 00:12:10.620
But in Costa Rica, Costa Rica, I always switch how I say that everyone, they love virtual tours because they have so many remote buyers.
282
00:12:10.700 --> 00:12:18.586
So people, they're not going to fly to Costa Rica to check out, but they will like walk through these spaces and they do a lot of like site unseen selling.
283
00:12:18.646 --> 00:12:21.468
So there I get rid of floor plans in Canada.
284
00:12:21.508 --> 00:12:22.629
I get rid of virtual tours.
285
00:12:22.929 --> 00:12:23.489
Very cool.
286
00:12:23.509 --> 00:12:23.629
Yeah.
287
00:12:24.050 --> 00:12:24.290
Yeah.
288
00:12:25.035 --> 00:12:26.257
All right, HD Photo Hub.
289
00:12:26.357 --> 00:12:26.777
Woo woo.
290
00:12:26.938 --> 00:12:27.599
HD Photo Hub.
291
00:12:27.999 --> 00:12:28.260
Yeah.
292
00:12:28.400 --> 00:12:28.560
Yeah.
293
00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:29.101
I love that.
294
00:12:29.401 --> 00:12:29.922
That's amazing.
295
00:12:29.942 --> 00:12:30.683
What would you say?
296
00:12:30.923 --> 00:12:33.787
So since you're 18 years in, which is wild.
297
00:12:33.827 --> 00:12:35.229
I don't think many people can say that.
298
00:12:35.249 --> 00:12:36.331
Back before Alex was born.
299
00:12:36.531 --> 00:12:36.771
Yeah.
300
00:12:37.835 --> 00:12:44.120
On the other podcast I was talking about, I said, I went to PMRE and I said, I don't think I've met anybody that hasn't been in the business as long as I have.
301
00:12:44.260 --> 00:12:44.581
Yeah.
302
00:12:45.101 --> 00:12:46.782
And they're like, yeah, you're right.
303
00:12:46.822 --> 00:12:47.603
Maybe you haven't.
304
00:12:48.023 --> 00:12:48.744
But I don't know.
305
00:12:48.804 --> 00:12:51.867
I haven't met somebody who's been in business for this long doing this thing.
306
00:12:52.187 --> 00:12:56.951
And funny enough, a lot of my photographers have been with me for 15, 16 years.
307
00:12:57.031 --> 00:12:57.831
Crazy.
308
00:12:57.951 --> 00:13:01.474
And I go, there's no industry that has that much retention.
309
00:13:01.614 --> 00:13:01.935
Mm-hmm.
310
00:13:02.355 --> 00:13:04.095
You know, or maybe other businesses.
311
00:13:04.115 --> 00:13:04.696
I don't know.
312
00:13:04.756 --> 00:13:06.896
But like, you must be getting up there.
313
00:13:06.916 --> 00:13:08.036
You've had your people.
314
00:13:08.736 --> 00:13:10.717
And those are great people to keep on board, right?
315
00:13:10.897 --> 00:13:22.179
So, but yeah, it's funny how like, it's, it's this like, you know, growth, but it's also, you know, you care about the people you're employing and all that stuff.
316
00:13:22.199 --> 00:13:22.379
Right.
317
00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:22.639
So.
318
00:13:23.020 --> 00:13:29.541
I mean, like 18 years in, what would you say right now off the top of your head was your best experience or accomplishment?
319
00:13:32.257 --> 00:13:37.620
Um, I think still being here, still, still doing well.
320
00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:40.001
Like, are we number one in all regions?
321
00:13:40.061 --> 00:13:40.762
No, of course not.
322
00:13:40.942 --> 00:13:42.743
Are we doing really well?
323
00:13:42.803 --> 00:13:43.703
Yeah, we're doing well.
324
00:13:44.104 --> 00:13:51.307
And even in tough times, I think 2008 was the other sort of really rough time in real estate.
325
00:13:52.528 --> 00:13:54.229
And we, we beat that.
326
00:13:54.269 --> 00:14:00.771
We went through it and we got out on the other side and we did better, you know, like it was just constantly improving and never thinking.
327
00:14:01.251 --> 00:14:02.192
We had a moment.
328
00:14:02.572 --> 00:14:08.674
Actually, we had a point in our, in our career, like in our life as, as what we do.
329
00:14:08.694 --> 00:14:08.794
Yeah.
330
00:14:10.155 --> 00:14:17.959
Well, we got a little stagnant and it was right after COVID because the volume meant more and delivery times meant more than the quality or any of that stuff.
331
00:14:18.540 --> 00:14:19.820
So we fell a little behind.
332
00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:24.283
I remember my first PMRE and I was like, oh, my God, depressed.
333
00:14:24.563 --> 00:14:25.943
I went to Utah after, right?
334
00:14:26.224 --> 00:14:28.605
And you talk to Nicole, she'll tell you the same thing.
335
00:14:28.745 --> 00:14:30.326
She'll be like, yeah, you're like.
336
00:14:31.253 --> 00:14:32.654
I don't know what I'm doing anymore.
337
00:14:32.774 --> 00:14:36.697
It was just like, I went through this like phase of like, I was like, and what was it?
338
00:14:37.097 --> 00:14:38.378
What did you see that made you?
339
00:14:38.738 --> 00:14:40.559
It was, there was no light at the end of the tunnel.
340
00:14:40.619 --> 00:14:43.982
We had to change everything, how we did and how we're doing it.
341
00:14:44.022 --> 00:14:45.983
And we had to completely revamp the company.
342
00:14:46.003 --> 00:14:48.024
And we did it in about two years, I would say.
343
00:14:48.104 --> 00:14:48.325
Yeah.
344
00:14:48.625 --> 00:14:51.647
To really turn around everything from where it was.
345
00:14:52.267 --> 00:15:10.697
to where it is and we're a volume player so you know that if you're like if it's just you it's easy yeah you're like oh i'll make this change i'll do this and no one's gonna say no right um but that moment i remember leaving pmre the first pmre i was at which is was it the first pmre you're at too i think so
346
00:15:11.357 --> 00:15:15.222
And it was just like, we're down the wrong path.
347
00:15:15.242 --> 00:15:17.385
We got to change how we're doing things.
348
00:15:17.445 --> 00:15:19.588
Can you give me any real specifics?
349
00:15:19.648 --> 00:15:21.371
Was it one thing or a bunch of things?
350
00:15:21.391 --> 00:15:23.113
And if it was a bunch, give me the three.
351
00:15:23.133 --> 00:15:23.573
Systems.
352
00:15:23.634 --> 00:15:27.278
It was systems, editors, everything had to be revamped.
353
00:15:27.298 --> 00:15:27.899
Like we...
354
00:15:28.905 --> 00:15:31.847
We used Acuity for scheduling, right?
355
00:15:31.887 --> 00:15:32.088
Okay.
356
00:15:32.208 --> 00:15:33.429
But there's no tie-in to anything.
357
00:15:33.449 --> 00:15:34.209
It's just the scheduling.
358
00:15:34.229 --> 00:15:34.830
It works fine.
359
00:15:34.870 --> 00:15:35.250
It's fine.
360
00:15:35.270 --> 00:15:35.630
It's great.
361
00:15:36.151 --> 00:15:41.275
But it's not like it's doing anything for you, like whoever we use now, right?
362
00:15:41.315 --> 00:15:42.716
All the big names we all know.
363
00:15:44.517 --> 00:15:45.038
It's not...
364
00:15:45.904 --> 00:15:47.446
It was just here.
365
00:15:47.486 --> 00:15:48.708
And then we had iGUIDE there.
366
00:15:48.748 --> 00:15:49.909
And we had this over here.
367
00:15:49.949 --> 00:15:52.112
And we had a photo platform over here.
368
00:15:52.152 --> 00:15:53.974
It was just... Everything was all over the place.
369
00:15:54.235 --> 00:15:54.675
And it worked.
370
00:15:55.216 --> 00:15:56.718
And we delivered fast.
371
00:15:57.399 --> 00:15:58.660
And I remember that's what got me...
372
00:15:58.740 --> 00:15:59.281
Even from the...
373
00:16:00.123 --> 00:16:05.606
The moment I started this business, it was always about delivery as well as quality.
374
00:16:05.647 --> 00:16:07.628
But delivery was a big part of it.
375
00:16:07.648 --> 00:16:10.890
And I remember being the first one to be able to deliver overnight.
376
00:16:11.590 --> 00:16:13.872
And we haven't strayed away from that.
377
00:16:13.892 --> 00:16:16.233
We still deliver overnight to this day.
378
00:16:16.854 --> 00:16:18.134
Why do you think that matters so much?
379
00:16:18.875 --> 00:16:19.876
It's knowing your customer.
380
00:16:20.276 --> 00:16:23.758
Like the realtors are like, give me this stuff.
381
00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:26.260
You can say fuck this shit, whatever you want.
382
00:16:26.280 --> 00:16:26.440
Yeah.
383
00:16:28.741 --> 00:16:30.302
Give me this shit right now.
384
00:16:30.363 --> 00:16:33.585
Like if you could give it off your camera as you leave the house, they would take it.
385
00:16:34.266 --> 00:16:38.850
It would look like crap, but yeah, I mean, that's what they want, but it's not, it's unrealistic.
386
00:16:38.870 --> 00:16:43.573
But do you think if you were to tell them like, Hey, if you gave us a little bit longer, the quality would be better.
387
00:16:43.814 --> 00:16:45.435
They would be like, no, we still want it fast.
388
00:16:45.915 --> 00:16:49.218
Cause I've always felt it was like an 80% threshold.
389
00:16:49.578 --> 00:16:52.221
Cause I came from like film and TV where everything has to be perfect.
390
00:16:52.321 --> 00:16:53.522
It's going to live for eternity.
391
00:16:53.602 --> 00:16:53.942
That's right.
392
00:16:54.022 --> 00:16:58.967
When I started doing real estate, I'm like, oh, there's this 80% where after 80%, no one gives a shit.
393
00:16:59.047 --> 00:16:59.407
That's right.
394
00:16:59.427 --> 00:17:01.609
It's kind of like a made up thing, but that's how I felt.
395
00:17:01.729 --> 00:17:02.250
You're correct.
396
00:17:02.490 --> 00:17:06.433
But you also like, if you're giving them the quality that you have, they don't know any better either.
397
00:17:06.694 --> 00:17:10.997
So don't deliver something that's better than that's going to be the new expectation, which is going to take longer.
398
00:17:11.278 --> 00:17:13.179
So yeah, especially volume based.
399
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:13.600
Yeah.
400
00:17:13.820 --> 00:17:14.020
Yeah.
401
00:17:14.461 --> 00:17:14.601
Yeah.
402
00:17:14.621 --> 00:17:17.123
You do have to make a decision as what is your business?
403
00:17:17.143 --> 00:17:18.004
Are you volume?
404
00:17:18.404 --> 00:17:19.105
Are you niche?
405
00:17:19.365 --> 00:17:19.686
Right.
406
00:17:19.706 --> 00:17:19.926
Yeah.
407
00:17:20.486 --> 00:17:25.791
And to combine the two, I think it's always smart to maybe differentiate the two by two brands.
408
00:17:26.532 --> 00:17:31.476
Like if you had a brand that was niche and then you had a brand that was like full on like volume.
409
00:17:31.697 --> 00:17:32.037
Right.
410
00:17:32.337 --> 00:17:36.321
The problem is when you own both, you're it's it's there was this pressure of of.
411
00:17:37.702 --> 00:18:01.182
of um pricing that is you know your highest package on this edge could be your lowest one here but really it's the same thing yeah but it's hard to manage that but i always felt like volume will cannibalize quality because it's so repeatable well it's such a bummer you're like so much work ah yeah and am i making triple probably not i think it's the wrong crowd for quality
412
00:18:01.842 --> 00:18:02.302
Yeah, it is.
413
00:18:02.382 --> 00:18:03.122
In a way, right?
414
00:18:03.162 --> 00:18:08.943
Like they will never look at it and be like, oh my God, thank you for all the time you've put into this.
415
00:18:09.644 --> 00:18:10.144
They don't.
416
00:18:10.304 --> 00:18:13.084
Like they're just more like, yeah, great, great work.
417
00:18:13.624 --> 00:18:15.165
And thanks for delivering it on time.
418
00:18:15.445 --> 00:18:21.426
Like it's more about that for them because what they're thinking in their minds and you're smart to figure that out early.
419
00:18:21.446 --> 00:18:27.367
But a lot of our competitors come from the same background as you have maybe and they don't understand that.
420
00:18:28.677 --> 00:18:29.378
The difference, right?
421
00:18:29.398 --> 00:18:37.106
So there's one, I told this on another podcast I was just on, and I said, this one client came to us and she hired us.
422
00:18:37.246 --> 00:18:40.670
It was a long-time client, but she's like, I'm so sorry I didn't use you on the last tour.
423
00:18:40.990 --> 00:18:41.251
Yeah.
424
00:18:41.491 --> 00:18:42.612
And we're like, oh, okay, no problem.
425
00:18:42.632 --> 00:18:43.333
Like, whatever, right?
426
00:18:43.573 --> 00:18:44.995
She's like, well, I tried this guy.
427
00:18:45.035 --> 00:18:48.698
And he was from highly regarded in my brokerage.
428
00:18:48.718 --> 00:18:50.781
And they said, you know, you got to hire this guy.
429
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:53.220
And so I did.
430
00:18:53.520 --> 00:18:55.141
And she's like, I'll never do that again.
431
00:18:55.161 --> 00:18:56.001
I'm like, well, what happened?
432
00:18:56.041 --> 00:18:58.582
She goes, well, I got in there and he's Mr.
433
00:18:58.622 --> 00:19:02.143
Photographer and you know, he's all up in this, like he's the best around.
434
00:19:02.743 --> 00:19:03.963
He made me change all the light bulbs.
435
00:19:03.983 --> 00:19:05.784
I had to run to cane tire, change all the labels.
436
00:19:05.804 --> 00:19:07.084
Cause they weren't the same temperature.
437
00:19:07.384 --> 00:19:08.245
Can you believe that?
438
00:19:08.285 --> 00:19:09.345
He told me this story before.
439
00:19:09.385 --> 00:19:12.326
I'm like, that's the most insane thing I've ever heard.
440
00:19:12.526 --> 00:19:14.926
Because like, what is he using for his editing service?
441
00:19:14.946 --> 00:19:16.067
Cause it should just be fixed anyway.
442
00:19:16.087 --> 00:19:16.927
This is years ago.
443
00:19:16.987 --> 00:19:17.747
So yeah, yeah.
444
00:19:17.767 --> 00:19:18.047
But still.
445
00:19:18.067 --> 00:19:19.028
This was like yesterday.
446
00:19:19.268 --> 00:19:20.068
No, no, it's not.
447
00:19:20.388 --> 00:19:24.971
But still it is one of those things where you go, that guy did not understand his trust.
448
00:19:25.011 --> 00:19:27.073
He didn't realize who he was dealing with.
449
00:19:27.093 --> 00:19:32.377
He was like coming from a film background maybe, or like, you know, I never worked in really high end photography.
450
00:19:32.577 --> 00:19:35.899
Like I worked for, um, marketing agencies.
451
00:19:35.919 --> 00:19:37.921
Uh, I've worked for the Delta.
452
00:19:38.001 --> 00:19:40.663
It was like, it was me and three other photographers in Canada.
453
00:19:40.683 --> 00:19:41.243
I worked for them.
454
00:19:42.064 --> 00:19:42.204
Um,
455
00:19:42.764 --> 00:19:49.548
And we worked and it was I was on set essentially all day taking pictures of rooms like hotel rooms.
456
00:19:50.308 --> 00:19:53.830
And it was literally like we got to move the pillow this way.
457
00:19:54.190 --> 00:19:55.351
And they would tuck the bed.
458
00:19:55.431 --> 00:19:55.971
There's a crease.
459
00:19:56.231 --> 00:19:57.412
I'm like, well, I can fix that post.
460
00:19:57.452 --> 00:19:58.132
Well, don't worry.
461
00:19:58.172 --> 00:19:58.952
No, we're going to fix that.
462
00:19:58.992 --> 00:19:59.833
And it was literally would.
463
00:20:00.113 --> 00:20:05.576
And I would tether my camera to a laptop and then the marketing team would view the pictures.
464
00:20:05.596 --> 00:20:06.256
Yeah.
465
00:20:06.580 --> 00:20:08.963
But I was getting paid like $3,500 a day.
466
00:20:09.083 --> 00:20:10.785
I was like, take as long as you want.
467
00:20:11.045 --> 00:20:11.946
You know, like I didn't care.
468
00:20:12.206 --> 00:20:12.426
Yeah.
469
00:20:12.907 --> 00:20:17.032
But it was one of those things where you're like, you have to understand your customer.
470
00:20:17.532 --> 00:20:18.874
I wasn't going to rush those guys.
471
00:20:18.894 --> 00:20:19.995
They want to take the time.
472
00:20:20.055 --> 00:20:20.515
Exactly.
473
00:20:20.555 --> 00:20:22.377
But the opposite is knowing your customers.
474
00:20:22.397 --> 00:20:23.879
If it's a realtor you're working with.
475
00:20:24.800 --> 00:20:26.221
Yeah, they want their stuff fast.
476
00:20:27.141 --> 00:20:33.523
Let me ask you this, because Alex and I both admitted to each other that we're like not great accountants, business people, math people.
477
00:20:34.383 --> 00:20:39.685
I personally feel like I was an artist who then figured out business.
478
00:20:39.725 --> 00:20:40.706
Yeah.
479
00:20:40.786 --> 00:20:44.227
Where do you put yourself in that scale of like artist to business person?
480
00:20:44.547 --> 00:20:44.847
Yeah.
481
00:20:45.007 --> 00:20:45.667
You know what?
482
00:20:45.887 --> 00:20:49.769
I think I grew up more of an artist, like being a music artist.
483
00:20:49.789 --> 00:20:52.630
Like I was more like when I created music, I was a music producer.
484
00:20:52.650 --> 00:20:52.750
Yeah.
485
00:20:53.310 --> 00:20:54.191
I had music on the radio.
486
00:20:54.211 --> 00:20:55.552
I remember skiing at Glen Eden.
487
00:20:55.892 --> 00:20:56.372
Oh, wow.
488
00:20:56.412 --> 00:20:57.994
And then my song came on the radio.
489
00:20:58.414 --> 00:20:58.714
Oh, shit.
490
00:20:58.734 --> 00:20:59.415
That I produced.
491
00:20:59.595 --> 00:21:01.016
And I was like, holy.
492
00:21:01.056 --> 00:21:01.877
And I was on the chair left.
493
00:21:01.937 --> 00:21:02.857
I'm like, oh, my God.
494
00:21:02.877 --> 00:21:03.318
This is amazing.
495
00:21:03.338 --> 00:21:03.798
Big Phil.
496
00:21:03.838 --> 00:21:04.238
Big Phil, yeah.
497
00:21:04.258 --> 00:21:05.259
They did say it.
498
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.400
They're like, they're saying it.
499
00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:07.401
I'm like, that's me.
500
00:21:07.821 --> 00:21:08.382
No one knew.
501
00:21:08.662 --> 00:21:09.182
Yeah.
502
00:21:09.202 --> 00:21:09.803
No one cared.
503
00:21:11.944 --> 00:21:12.545
We care.
504
00:21:12.565 --> 00:21:12.945
Yeah, yeah.
505
00:21:13.606 --> 00:21:17.028
But it was cool that we were like, you know, like, I was very much an artist.
506
00:21:17.088 --> 00:21:18.649
But I still had a business sense.
507
00:21:18.990 --> 00:21:19.250
Yeah.
508
00:21:19.290 --> 00:21:20.311
And I think that's all of us.
509
00:21:20.351 --> 00:21:21.692
Like, we may not be the best.
510
00:21:22.666 --> 00:21:24.708
business people are the best artists anymore.
511
00:21:24.728 --> 00:21:30.012
I think we're like, as we grow older, we kind of just mold ourselves and we always want to go back to our roots.
512
00:21:30.192 --> 00:21:30.912
Yeah, for sure.
513
00:21:31.133 --> 00:21:36.357
But I think it's like, for me, it was, uh, I've always been, and I had to be, to be able to edit photos.
514
00:21:37.177 --> 00:21:39.099
I had to be able to teach myself.
515
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.621
Like there was nobody taught me how to shoot real estate back then.
516
00:21:41.641 --> 00:21:44.283
We used to use three different softwares to release one photo.
517
00:21:44.323 --> 00:21:46.945
Like it was like, we had to strain in a different software and,
518
00:21:47.425 --> 00:21:48.006
Like the walls.
519
00:21:48.806 --> 00:21:52.009
And then we had to like then go back to, I was using Apple, what was that?
520
00:21:52.409 --> 00:21:53.990
Apple software.
521
00:21:54.011 --> 00:21:54.651
It was in Lightroom.
522
00:21:54.691 --> 00:21:56.453
It was like Apple something.
523
00:21:56.473 --> 00:21:58.154
Anyways.
524
00:21:58.274 --> 00:21:59.395
And it's discontinued now.
525
00:21:59.415 --> 00:22:00.796
Like you can't even use it.
526
00:22:01.597 --> 00:22:04.579
And it was like two or three softwares I had to use to edit my photos.
527
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:05.400
Like it was insane.
528
00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:09.964
And I remember, you know, one o'clock in the morning, you're still working on your shoots from that day.
529
00:22:10.024 --> 00:22:11.725
And of course I want to deliver fast.
530
00:22:11.745 --> 00:22:13.467
So I had to deliver and.
531
00:22:14.836 --> 00:22:17.177
But the crazy days, yeah, it was insane.
532
00:22:17.197 --> 00:22:20.218
I always said to people, I said, I would never start that business ever again.
533
00:22:20.458 --> 00:22:20.758
Yeah.
534
00:22:20.859 --> 00:22:22.539
Like, I did it once, I would never do it again.
535
00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:23.019
Real estate?
536
00:22:23.159 --> 00:22:24.040
Yeah.
537
00:22:24.140 --> 00:22:27.281
Back then, I was like, I might as well work at Walmart for what I was making.
538
00:22:27.301 --> 00:22:29.882
I was charging $129 for photos or $99 or whatever.
539
00:22:29.902 --> 00:22:30.102
Yeah.
540
00:22:31.903 --> 00:22:34.004
No, but I mean, it was like back then it was just like, that's it.
541
00:22:34.084 --> 00:22:36.225
They weren't hiring you for a video on top or anything else.
542
00:22:36.265 --> 00:22:37.886
It was just that's what you're hired for.
543
00:22:37.946 --> 00:22:39.986
And they're like, we'll call you on the next luxury property.
544
00:22:40.187 --> 00:22:40.407
Yeah.
545
00:22:40.547 --> 00:22:42.788
And you're like, wow, how long is that going to be?
546
00:22:42.808 --> 00:22:44.108
You know, like twice a year.
547
00:22:44.748 --> 00:22:48.010
So you're kind of like for a hundred bucks, like you can't make a living.
548
00:22:48.030 --> 00:22:48.210
Right.
549
00:22:48.350 --> 00:22:48.650
Yeah.
550
00:22:48.971 --> 00:22:52.233
So I'll like, I'm just going to recycle the cameras here.
551
00:22:52.253 --> 00:22:53.354
Just so yeah.
552
00:22:53.554 --> 00:22:53.855
Yeah.
553
00:22:53.935 --> 00:22:55.596
I mean, I want to go day one.
554
00:22:55.616 --> 00:22:59.860
Like how did you, and why did you start a real, like what made you pick up a camera?
555
00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:07.246
Like you were doing music, listening to yourself on a ski live and then you picked up a camera and you started shooting real estate.
556
00:23:07.286 --> 00:23:12.050
How do you go from DJ big Phil to real estate photographer?
557
00:23:12.070 --> 00:23:12.630
Yeah.
558
00:23:13.371 --> 00:23:13.551
Um,
559
00:23:14.573 --> 00:23:18.655
So why I said I always had a business sense.
560
00:23:19.095 --> 00:23:19.835
And it wasn't just me.
561
00:23:19.855 --> 00:23:21.156
It was my partner at the time.
562
00:23:21.196 --> 00:23:27.318
And, you know, influences around yourself or around your own life that kind of.
563
00:23:27.698 --> 00:23:28.838
I was a landlord as well.
564
00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:29.419
Okay.
565
00:23:29.459 --> 00:23:31.239
I was renting properties in Walu.
566
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:31.900
And how old were you?
567
00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:32.540
How old were you?
568
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:58.518
20 okay i remember buying my first property in waterloo right by the university of laurier and my all my buddies were buying houses to live with their like newly partners or whatever they were just you know living together and i'm like i'm buying a rental and it's a dump yeah and they're like why man like get your nice place i'm like no this will pay off later and of course it did like i was able to sell that later and make money and then buy three more and whatever right so
569
00:23:59.338 --> 00:24:00.979
I was, I still had the business sense.
570
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.602
And every time I worked in a corporate job, I hated the corporate life.
571
00:24:05.662 --> 00:24:11.726
But I still, and I was in my back of my mind, I want to do something, but I loved real estate because I was in real estate.
572
00:24:11.786 --> 00:24:12.047
Right.
573
00:24:12.127 --> 00:24:15.049
And as a landlord, I was like, I still interested in shopping for real estate.
574
00:24:15.449 --> 00:24:16.790
Didn't want to be a real estate agent though.
575
00:24:16.810 --> 00:24:18.371
I just never really loved that.
576
00:24:18.431 --> 00:24:21.053
Like I had the idea a few times, maybe I should become an agent.
577
00:24:21.673 --> 00:24:24.195
But then I was like, no, I'll just, you know, do something else.
578
00:24:24.215 --> 00:24:24.595
Yeah.
579
00:24:24.915 --> 00:24:26.015
And I was shopping for a house.
580
00:24:26.075 --> 00:24:27.356
My daughter was six months old.
581
00:24:27.936 --> 00:24:28.056
Oh.
582
00:24:28.696 --> 00:24:34.338
And I was like, I need, I was going to take a, I was traveling across US, Europe and all that stuff for work.
583
00:24:34.478 --> 00:24:35.298
It's not fun.
584
00:24:35.358 --> 00:24:36.618
It's work still, right?
585
00:24:36.638 --> 00:24:37.639
Like when you're traveling for work.
586
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:47.281
And, um, and I said to, um, I was like, oh my God, like, you know, like, let's look at this property.
587
00:24:47.301 --> 00:24:49.822
And of course the virtual tour and the photos were so bad.
588
00:24:50.022 --> 00:24:51.363
Like it was just really bad.
589
00:24:51.503 --> 00:24:52.723
And what was a virtual tour then?
590
00:24:53.478 --> 00:24:54.399
It was a bad video.
591
00:24:54.659 --> 00:24:54.979
Okay.
592
00:24:55.219 --> 00:25:01.402
And photos that were okay, but like not in a way that it was presented properly, I guess I would say.
593
00:25:01.482 --> 00:25:05.944
So I was like, there's got to be a better way to present real estate marketing.
594
00:25:06.125 --> 00:25:07.645
Like it was just, it wasn't done right.
595
00:25:07.705 --> 00:25:10.067
Nobody was doing and everybody was doing kind of their own little thing.
596
00:25:10.127 --> 00:25:13.748
And it was, there's a few guys, this guy lived in Missaga, I found out.
597
00:25:13.788 --> 00:25:16.510
And I was like, okay, well maybe there's room for Guelph growth.
598
00:25:16.570 --> 00:25:18.591
And my daughter was six months old.
599
00:25:18.611 --> 00:25:21.112
I was trying to get away from the, from the corporate life.
600
00:25:21.132 --> 00:25:22.193
So I took a parental leave.
601
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:29.163
And I remember my my boss, who's a great friend of mine now still, but he's like, he's like, are you sure you want to do this?
602
00:25:29.243 --> 00:25:32.785
And I was like, yeah, I'm like, I started that company with five other people.
603
00:25:33.666 --> 00:25:42.892
And and I and I was so I had that sort of entrepreneur drive because I had sort of learned a lot from that experience.
604
00:25:43.032 --> 00:25:47.555
And I was basically given a cart like a credit card to do whatever we wanted with.
605
00:25:48.095 --> 00:26:11.753
to just grow that business and we grew it to like 10 million dollars great it worked out fine but then it became very corporate again and i was like yeah yeah then and it has to be right like i'm sure you've seen that in your growth like eventually you have to put like stuff in place that makes people work yeah because otherwise they don't work right so we're talking about that alex has had to become a boss yeah not like everyone's boundaries man yeah
606
00:26:13.108 --> 00:26:17.589
So the fun is there, but then it's still like, you know, a bit hard to deal with at times.
607
00:26:17.649 --> 00:26:22.250
And so anyways, the fun kind of went away quick with that job.
608
00:26:22.270 --> 00:26:25.370
So I was like, you know, I need to, I'm going to take six months and see what I'm going to do.
609
00:26:26.050 --> 00:26:28.791
And then we're shopping for this house and I see how bad it was.
610
00:26:28.811 --> 00:26:30.211
And I was like, I can do better.
611
00:26:31.051 --> 00:26:37.833
So I started creating my own website, my own everything for the photos and the video or whatever I was doing to live the 360s.
612
00:26:37.933 --> 00:26:39.433
I remember the 360s were huge.
613
00:26:40.817 --> 00:26:42.999
And a few realtors started buying into it.
614
00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:45.980
But then I was working so long.
615
00:26:46.481 --> 00:26:48.222
And that's when it was like two in the morning.
616
00:26:48.242 --> 00:26:50.023
I'm still programming the websites.
617
00:26:50.083 --> 00:26:51.544
And I'm like, my eyes twitching.
618
00:26:51.564 --> 00:26:53.265
And I'm like, this is not fun.
619
00:26:54.366 --> 00:26:57.468
So I ended back up at 6 a.m. Because I had to take care of my daughter.
620
00:26:57.708 --> 00:27:03.832
And it was just like a nightmare in a way that I was like, I'm not making enough money for this to be worth it.
621
00:27:04.592 --> 00:27:08.935
But then I was like, there's got to be something out there that's like I can send off my stuff to.
622
00:27:10.064 --> 00:27:10.944
And then they do the stuff.
623
00:27:10.964 --> 00:27:11.605
And that's Greg.
624
00:27:12.105 --> 00:27:13.305
We talked about Greg a few times.
625
00:27:13.846 --> 00:27:15.586
And his company was called My Visual Listings.
626
00:27:15.626 --> 00:27:17.407
I think it's still kind of operational.
627
00:27:17.427 --> 00:27:18.607
There's a few guys working too.
628
00:27:18.627 --> 00:27:18.807
Yeah.
629
00:27:19.508 --> 00:27:19.828
So.
630
00:27:21.168 --> 00:27:21.649
And he.
631
00:27:21.749 --> 00:27:22.989
I would just send off the photos.
632
00:27:23.029 --> 00:27:24.790
And they would do all the web work on the back end.
633
00:27:24.890 --> 00:27:25.930
Stitch the 360s.
634
00:27:25.990 --> 00:27:27.671
And spit it back out to the agent the next morning.
635
00:27:28.571 --> 00:27:29.192
Before they woke up.
636
00:27:29.512 --> 00:27:29.792
I was like.
637
00:27:29.972 --> 00:27:30.212
Great.
638
00:27:30.752 --> 00:27:31.993
So then I started using that.
639
00:27:32.253 --> 00:27:32.473
And then.
640
00:27:34.077 --> 00:27:37.158
My issue with that, and I've told Greg before, is that I wanted my own brand.
641
00:27:37.318 --> 00:27:40.960
I didn't want it to be under, like, people knew me as my visualist things, right?
642
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:43.861
So I was like, I want my own brand.
643
00:27:43.881 --> 00:27:45.642
Like, I'm not growing this for somebody else.
644
00:27:45.882 --> 00:27:48.843
And unfortunately, we had differences in opinions.
645
00:27:48.923 --> 00:27:50.183
And, you know, I left that.
646
00:27:50.384 --> 00:27:55.966
But I just, and it grew massively from there because everybody recognized the name after that.
647
00:27:56.026 --> 00:27:58.207
And it was like marketing power, right?
648
00:27:58.227 --> 00:27:58.387
Yeah.
649
00:27:59.542 --> 00:28:15.492
um so then it just it grew and grew and grew and then i was like yeah we have our own systems and now we don't need to have that right but but to your question yeah i was like it was that's how i started that was just a tip of the iceberg i guess you could say yeah
650
00:28:15.893 --> 00:28:19.596
And then from 18 years ago, what was the biggest change?
651
00:28:19.616 --> 00:28:24.159
And I know you mentioned the COVID like really added a lot of stress and change to your business.
652
00:28:24.199 --> 00:28:27.501
But like what now would you say?
653
00:28:27.602 --> 00:28:32.385
Stress because it was like if you couldn't be there at that time, they go somewhere else.
654
00:28:32.425 --> 00:28:32.625
Yeah.
655
00:28:32.725 --> 00:28:32.905
Right.
656
00:28:32.925 --> 00:28:34.346
It wasn't about quality anymore.
657
00:28:34.386 --> 00:28:35.988
It was about can you do it?
658
00:28:36.188 --> 00:28:36.408
Yeah.
659
00:28:36.548 --> 00:28:37.709
Because houses were selling like.
660
00:28:37.929 --> 00:28:38.189
Yeah.
661
00:28:38.229 --> 00:28:43.754
So it was like, I had to like hire as many people as I could possibly find to like, just fill the gaps and fill in.
662
00:28:43.874 --> 00:28:47.596
Of course, you know that it's like, it's temporary because there's like seasonality to that.
663
00:28:47.997 --> 00:28:54.702
So then what do you do with these people when they're like middle of like November and they're like, uh, there are no jobs.
664
00:28:54.902 --> 00:28:55.042
Right.
665
00:28:55.062 --> 00:28:56.183
So anyways.
666
00:28:56.363 --> 00:28:56.523
Yeah.
667
00:28:56.563 --> 00:28:56.904
Yeah.
668
00:28:56.964 --> 00:28:57.704
So, I mean, yeah.
669
00:28:57.764 --> 00:29:02.388
So in the real estate industry, what is the biggest change that you've implemented into your business?
670
00:29:04.626 --> 00:29:11.971
Um, the biggest change I think now is having, separating the photographer from the editor.
671
00:29:12.191 --> 00:29:12.411
Yeah.
672
00:29:12.951 --> 00:29:13.312
Love it.
673
00:29:13.432 --> 00:29:15.713
That is my biggest, like what we realized.
674
00:29:16.474 --> 00:29:17.174
Oh my God.
675
00:29:17.534 --> 00:29:19.796
Like they can't even have a life themselves.
676
00:29:19.816 --> 00:29:20.977
Like it's not just against...
677
00:29:21.757 --> 00:29:23.719
The idea of like them doing it all.
678
00:29:24.239 --> 00:29:27.802
It's really the fact that that's not how you can operate a volume business.
679
00:29:28.042 --> 00:29:30.924
Somehow I created processes to make it work back then.
680
00:29:31.545 --> 00:29:35.247
Like before we had AI, I was creating presets.
681
00:29:35.648 --> 00:29:35.848
Yeah.
682
00:29:35.868 --> 00:29:40.852
That you could like put into Lightroom and it would just like the picture would be like 95% of the way.
683
00:29:40.872 --> 00:29:41.132
Yeah.
684
00:29:41.412 --> 00:29:43.534
All they had to do is tweak a little exposure, maybe this.
685
00:29:43.554 --> 00:29:43.994
Yeah.
686
00:29:44.014 --> 00:29:46.776
But it was tiny and they could go through a shoot in 15 minutes.
687
00:29:46.956 --> 00:29:47.257
Mm-hmm.
688
00:29:47.697 --> 00:29:50.119
Like that's how fast I was able to teach them how to do it.
689
00:29:50.299 --> 00:29:50.499
Yeah.
690
00:29:50.659 --> 00:29:52.160
You can edit or shoot in 15 minutes.
691
00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:53.361
So for them, it wasn't a big deal.
692
00:29:53.401 --> 00:29:54.502
They could just do it at night.
693
00:29:54.702 --> 00:29:55.203
Boom, boom, boom.
694
00:29:55.223 --> 00:29:56.123
And then just spit it out.
695
00:29:56.343 --> 00:29:56.584
Yeah.
696
00:29:56.624 --> 00:29:58.105
So your shooters were shooting all day.
697
00:29:58.125 --> 00:29:58.485
Yeah.
698
00:29:58.925 --> 00:30:00.106
Editing their own photos at night.
699
00:30:00.226 --> 00:30:01.307
I did the same thing.
700
00:30:01.327 --> 00:30:02.428
Oh, sorry.
701
00:30:02.448 --> 00:30:03.269
I thought it was wrong.
702
00:30:03.289 --> 00:30:03.569
No, no.
703
00:30:03.589 --> 00:30:04.710
You're pushing a little bit closer.
704
00:30:04.730 --> 00:30:05.911
But yeah, I did the same thing.
705
00:30:05.971 --> 00:30:08.292
And what happened was my team...
706
00:30:09.333 --> 00:30:09.553
Yeah.
707
00:30:09.993 --> 00:30:13.894
I just, I felt so bad for that because I'm like, I'm over, like they don't have a life.
708
00:30:13.914 --> 00:30:15.514
They can't go play sports after work.
709
00:30:15.534 --> 00:30:17.854
They can't, they can't do anything in the morning.
710
00:30:17.874 --> 00:30:19.535
But were you shooting HDR?
711
00:30:19.555 --> 00:30:20.595
Yes, we were doing HDR too.
712
00:30:20.635 --> 00:30:23.575
So I was doing flash because it got me so fast.
713
00:30:23.715 --> 00:30:23.995
Yeah.
714
00:30:24.015 --> 00:30:32.297
But you bounce a flash and, you know, with good editing, you could make it look almost, you can't go through the windows as well, but you can make it look HDR-esque.
715
00:30:32.737 --> 00:30:35.417
And that's where we got to with this preset that I've kind of created.
716
00:30:35.677 --> 00:30:35.837
Yeah.
717
00:30:35.878 --> 00:30:38.138
And I would sign, I would make everybody sign an NDA.
718
00:30:39.118 --> 00:30:40.659
uh, non-compete.
719
00:30:41.499 --> 00:30:45.480
And I would say, you can't take this and just do your own.
720
00:30:45.500 --> 00:30:45.700
Right.
721
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.201
But because I had this proprietary sort of way of doing it.
722
00:30:50.002 --> 00:30:55.023
And so, um, that's where I find like, it was like, okay, I can teach them how to do it.
723
00:30:55.043 --> 00:30:59.845
And they were fine because if you had three, four shoots a day, now if it was five or six years, they were like, okay,
724
00:31:00.273 --> 00:31:00.814
just dead.
725
00:31:01.074 --> 00:31:01.275
Yeah.
726
00:31:01.395 --> 00:31:03.818
But I'm like, guys, it's only through this time of year.
727
00:31:03.838 --> 00:31:04.119
Yeah.
728
00:31:04.379 --> 00:31:06.442
You can sleep all day in November, right?
729
00:31:06.482 --> 00:31:11.049
Like there's more of that, but you know, you try to rally the troops and that's your job as an owner.
730
00:31:11.069 --> 00:31:11.190
Right.
731
00:31:11.230 --> 00:31:13.193
So were they, were they hourly or salary?
732
00:31:13.213 --> 00:31:13.493
Yeah.
733
00:31:13.635 --> 00:31:17.899
Well, no, we're all subcontracted because they can write off a lot of their stuff.
734
00:31:17.999 --> 00:31:20.742
And it was in their benefit to do more subcontracting.
735
00:31:22.204 --> 00:31:29.851
And for us, it would allow us to kind of flow through the ups and downs of the, you know, like the seasonality of our... We're not in Florida, right?
736
00:31:29.872 --> 00:31:29.992
Yeah.
737
00:31:30.012 --> 00:31:30.192
Yeah.
738
00:31:30.813 --> 00:31:47.132
obviously so it's like you know there was quite a bit of seasonality to uh to the work so i was like okay well if we're slow then we're not paying out salaries yeah we have our admin team on salaries and our core team is is salaried employees because they have to be obviously but
739
00:31:48.009 --> 00:31:51.590
But we thought the way of doing and then there's drawbacks to that.
740
00:31:52.090 --> 00:31:52.330
Right.
741
00:31:52.430 --> 00:31:56.111
So the drawback is you have you have mostly employees, I think.
742
00:31:56.151 --> 00:31:56.351
Right.
743
00:31:56.411 --> 00:31:56.591
Yeah.
744
00:31:56.931 --> 00:31:59.812
So the drawback for me is I'm trying to get them to do stuff.
745
00:31:59.832 --> 00:32:01.052
Well, they cost me every time.
746
00:32:01.252 --> 00:32:01.452
Yeah.
747
00:32:01.492 --> 00:32:01.672
Right.
748
00:32:01.752 --> 00:32:04.233
So it's not like I'm just like paying these people.
749
00:32:04.253 --> 00:32:05.473
I'm like, well, you're not doing anything today.
750
00:32:05.533 --> 00:32:07.954
You go and do this and shoot a video for us.
751
00:32:08.074 --> 00:32:10.054
And it's going to be a promo video.
752
00:32:10.434 --> 00:32:12.135
I can't do that with these guys.
753
00:32:12.335 --> 00:32:12.575
Right.
754
00:32:12.615 --> 00:32:12.855
Right.
755
00:32:12.935 --> 00:32:13.155
So.
756
00:32:14.158 --> 00:32:15.318
And we don't have a main office.
757
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:17.419
We don't have an office where we go to.
758
00:32:17.439 --> 00:32:18.459
I thought you did.
759
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:18.739
No.
760
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:19.880
Wow.
761
00:32:19.940 --> 00:32:21.280
We all remote.
762
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:22.481
Has it always been like that?
763
00:32:22.521 --> 00:32:23.321
Yep.
764
00:32:23.341 --> 00:32:24.101
Same interesting.
765
00:32:24.121 --> 00:32:25.641
I was like, man, I should get an office.
766
00:32:25.822 --> 00:32:27.902
And again, there's drawbacks to everything.
767
00:32:27.922 --> 00:32:30.043
And there's positives and negatives for everything, right?
768
00:32:31.203 --> 00:32:32.303
So it made me think of this.
769
00:32:32.484 --> 00:32:33.704
I thought of this last week.
770
00:32:33.724 --> 00:32:35.945
Because I was like, an agent called us.
771
00:32:35.985 --> 00:32:37.745
And it's like, I don't like any of the photos.
772
00:32:37.765 --> 00:32:38.885
And they were totally fine.
773
00:32:38.905 --> 00:32:40.106
There was nothing wrong with them.
774
00:32:40.726 --> 00:32:42.727
But she's like, I don't like any of the photos.
775
00:32:42.767 --> 00:32:43.747
I want them re-edited.
776
00:32:45.253 --> 00:32:48.975
I'm thinking, how would someone that doesn't know how to edit, essentially?
777
00:32:49.155 --> 00:32:50.596
Because all these new guys are coming in.
778
00:32:50.616 --> 00:32:51.396
They're saying it off.
779
00:32:51.476 --> 00:32:52.176
It just gets done.
780
00:32:52.477 --> 00:32:53.537
They don't have to do anything.
781
00:32:53.797 --> 00:32:55.839
How do those guys deal with something like that?
782
00:32:55.939 --> 00:32:57.559
Where it's like, they don't know how to edit.
783
00:32:57.980 --> 00:33:02.082
It's like a plumber who doesn't know how to fix a toilet.
784
00:33:02.322 --> 00:33:03.123
They're coming in there.
785
00:33:03.974 --> 00:33:05.154
Do you have any other analogies?
786
00:33:06.215 --> 00:33:07.275
I feel like you do.
787
00:33:07.335 --> 00:33:08.055
I'm looking at you.
788
00:33:08.095 --> 00:33:09.056
I'm like, he's got something.
789
00:33:09.076 --> 00:33:10.136
I definitely have an analogy.
790
00:33:11.216 --> 00:33:15.838
It's like, I don't even know, an axeman trying to cut down a tree and he doesn't know how to dance.
791
00:33:15.858 --> 00:33:17.218
It's like a stripper who doesn't know how to dance.
792
00:33:17.258 --> 00:33:18.279
Yeah, that's right.
793
00:33:18.439 --> 00:33:19.459
What else we got?
794
00:33:19.579 --> 00:33:24.340
Well, I was saying it's like people that learn on a soft top surfboard because it's not real surfing.
795
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:24.620
Right.
796
00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:26.261
And like, so you don't learn the fundamentals.
797
00:33:26.281 --> 00:33:30.642
And if you don't have the fundamentals, you're cooked once you go out on a real wave because it's not easy.
798
00:33:30.662 --> 00:33:31.062
Right.
799
00:33:31.602 --> 00:33:34.623
And yeah, that is the danger with all this automation.
800
00:33:34.763 --> 00:33:34.963
Yeah.
801
00:33:35.163 --> 00:33:36.163
Is once things fail.
802
00:33:36.183 --> 00:33:37.163
So my dad was a pilot.
803
00:33:37.584 --> 00:33:37.784
Yeah.
804
00:33:38.244 --> 00:33:46.546
And we used to like when we'd fly commercial, when we were landing, my dad, we would like sit there and he would rate the landing based on like how hard we touched down.
805
00:33:46.586 --> 00:33:46.746
Yeah.
806
00:33:47.426 --> 00:33:51.987
And then he told me, he was like, nowadays commercial airlines, they don't land them, like they land themselves.
807
00:33:52.127 --> 00:33:53.888
The pilot doesn't land the airplane anymore.
808
00:33:55.288 --> 00:34:00.829
A commercial airliner can always hit an 80% landing just based on, but they'll never hit 100%.
809
00:34:01.429 --> 00:34:08.931
But the problem with it for him, because he also taught pilots, he's like, these pilots aren't learning this incredibly fundamental skill.
810
00:34:09.531 --> 00:34:15.493
So if your system goes down and you have to land the plane yourself, you don't have the hours in, you don't have that touch.
811
00:34:15.693 --> 00:34:21.536
And that's how I feel about like when I was coaching a lot, people always wanted to skip to automation.
812
00:34:21.556 --> 00:34:25.538
And I'm like, you don't like spend a whole year suffering.
813
00:34:26.098 --> 00:34:27.318
You have to pay your dues.
814
00:34:27.899 --> 00:34:29.599
And I really think that that's important.
815
00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:32.101
Not only does it make you like you can fix anything.
816
00:34:32.121 --> 00:34:34.802
Like I'm having a shoot this week in Costa Rica.
817
00:34:34.822 --> 00:34:35.842
That's a bit of a disaster.
818
00:34:36.463 --> 00:34:40.444
But I know all the tricks and I have enough raw data that I can fix it.
819
00:34:40.705 --> 00:34:40.925
Yeah.
820
00:34:41.625 --> 00:34:46.407
But other people, I think, would shit their pants because there's nothing to do if you don't capture it properly, right?
821
00:34:46.467 --> 00:34:46.687
Yeah.
822
00:34:47.327 --> 00:34:49.909
Or if the agent doesn't like it and they say, can you fix it?
823
00:34:49.929 --> 00:34:50.529
And you can't.
824
00:34:50.809 --> 00:34:51.029
Yeah.
825
00:34:51.389 --> 00:34:54.430
Yeah, I just feel like the fragility of that would make me so anxious.
826
00:34:54.811 --> 00:34:55.051
Yeah.
827
00:34:55.171 --> 00:34:55.371
Yeah.
828
00:34:55.391 --> 00:34:55.531
Yeah.
829
00:34:56.739 --> 00:34:59.501
Yeah, I find that's scary for me.
830
00:35:00.222 --> 00:35:01.983
If I was a business owner.
831
00:35:02.023 --> 00:35:10.369
If my guys or the people I work with me come to me and they don't think I can fix the problem, that's a scary thing.
832
00:35:10.610 --> 00:35:14.292
Because then it's like, well, why is he the owner?
833
00:35:14.332 --> 00:35:18.375
It's like somebody who's trying to do a business that they've never done before, right?
834
00:35:18.415 --> 00:35:18.576
Yeah.
835
00:35:18.956 --> 00:35:20.617
We've seen some of our competitors.
836
00:35:21.358 --> 00:35:25.381
They get bought out by corporations or something, and then they're like,
837
00:35:26.318 --> 00:35:27.660
They have no idea what they're doing.
838
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:28.060
Yeah.
839
00:35:28.100 --> 00:35:28.761
They have no idea.
840
00:35:29.562 --> 00:35:31.584
And then you're like, oh, that's not going to end well.
841
00:35:31.624 --> 00:35:35.428
And you see them 10 years later and they got, or not even 10 years, three years later.
842
00:35:35.448 --> 00:35:38.952
And the guy really, like they look bad.
843
00:35:39.012 --> 00:35:41.214
They look like they've gone through the ringer, right?
844
00:35:41.275 --> 00:35:41.535
Yeah.
845
00:35:41.695 --> 00:35:42.616
Yeah.
846
00:35:42.656 --> 00:35:42.816
So-
847
00:35:43.722 --> 00:35:48.985
Yeah, it made me think of that when that agent was like, fix these photos.
848
00:35:49.005 --> 00:35:50.406
And I was like, well, we can fix them.
849
00:35:50.606 --> 00:35:51.287
What do you want us to do?
850
00:35:51.567 --> 00:35:51.787
Right?
851
00:35:51.847 --> 00:35:53.508
Like, it wasn't like, ah, that's all I can do.
852
00:35:53.688 --> 00:35:54.049
You know?
853
00:35:54.089 --> 00:35:54.309
Yeah.
854
00:35:54.509 --> 00:35:55.890
It was like, no, we can, you know?
855
00:35:56.610 --> 00:35:56.810
Yeah.
856
00:35:57.111 --> 00:35:59.432
We've been hired to fix other people's photos.
857
00:35:59.452 --> 00:35:59.912
I've seen.
858
00:36:00.012 --> 00:36:01.714
Sometimes I'm like, meh, I feel a little bit weird.
859
00:36:01.734 --> 00:36:02.434
Yeah, it is weird.
860
00:36:02.454 --> 00:36:04.775
Like touching someone else's underwear.
861
00:36:04.896 --> 00:36:05.136
Yeah.
862
00:36:05.156 --> 00:36:06.276
But I'll do it.
863
00:36:07.277 --> 00:36:08.358
I'll touch your underwear.
864
00:36:09.919 --> 00:36:10.399
Pay me for it.
865
00:36:10.439 --> 00:36:10.919
I'll touch it.
866
00:36:10.939 --> 00:36:11.440
Yeah, yeah.
867
00:36:11.460 --> 00:36:11.700
Yeah.
868
00:36:12.997 --> 00:36:13.378
Yeah.
869
00:36:13.878 --> 00:36:15.060
What was I going to say?
870
00:36:15.080 --> 00:36:17.143
I just lost my train of thought thinking about underwear.
871
00:36:17.503 --> 00:36:18.404
More martini.
872
00:36:21.548 --> 00:36:22.149
Oh, my God.
873
00:36:22.329 --> 00:36:22.890
What was it?
874
00:36:23.271 --> 00:36:27.476
I find your story, like, I love your business.
875
00:36:28.512 --> 00:36:35.614
in Costa Rica because it's the same reason I'm here in Muskoka.
876
00:36:35.634 --> 00:36:39.454
Because I didn't want to start Muskoka when I was in Muskoka.
877
00:36:39.494 --> 00:36:42.975
I bought this place and I was like, I don't want to work here.
878
00:36:43.135 --> 00:36:44.735
This is why I bought it, is not to work here.
879
00:36:44.775 --> 00:36:45.336
Exactly.
880
00:36:45.356 --> 00:36:49.136
But then I felt such a need, which is I think what you went through in Costa Rica.
881
00:36:49.216 --> 00:36:52.237
I need so many help here to market these places.
882
00:36:52.857 --> 00:36:55.698
And I felt like there was a need and I just started it this way.
883
00:36:56.878 --> 00:37:00.282
And I already had like Guelph going and Kitchen Waterloo and Cambridge and stuff.
884
00:37:00.302 --> 00:37:02.364
So it was all running itself.
885
00:37:02.404 --> 00:37:09.932
But I was like, I want to like, I didn't want this to be a workplace because it was my, to get away from it.
886
00:37:10.713 --> 00:37:11.594
Like I sucked into it.
887
00:37:12.509 --> 00:37:17.590
But I love that you do the same as me is where you look at it like, hey, I can still have fun there.
888
00:37:18.131 --> 00:37:19.911
Like when I'm here, like, don't get me wrong.
889
00:37:19.971 --> 00:37:21.051
I'm working still.
890
00:37:21.472 --> 00:37:25.073
But I can operate things from here that doesn't matter where I am.
891
00:37:25.353 --> 00:37:25.473
Yeah.
892
00:37:25.493 --> 00:37:25.633
Right.
893
00:37:25.793 --> 00:37:27.613
So that's the way I've set it up.
894
00:37:27.653 --> 00:37:28.294
It was a dream.
895
00:37:28.574 --> 00:37:31.434
It was a like, like a vision.
896
00:37:31.975 --> 00:37:32.755
And I went with it.
897
00:37:33.135 --> 00:37:33.335
But yeah.
898
00:37:34.614 --> 00:37:37.575
What's the first thing you do when you expand into a new market?
899
00:37:38.215 --> 00:37:40.937
Are you boots on the ground or do you have someone go in there?
900
00:37:40.997 --> 00:37:42.277
I was always boots on the ground.
901
00:37:42.377 --> 00:37:43.438
Now it's a little different.
902
00:37:43.458 --> 00:37:45.498
Now it's like, let's get cold calling going.
903
00:37:46.279 --> 00:37:50.060
And Scott and our team is working really hard right now, just doing a lot of sales stuff.
904
00:37:50.140 --> 00:37:51.121
And it's great.
905
00:37:51.341 --> 00:37:52.481
That's his little baby right now.
906
00:37:52.521 --> 00:37:54.402
And it's good to see that.
907
00:37:54.502 --> 00:37:56.383
But for me, it was like...
908
00:37:57.023 --> 00:37:57.924
I hate cold calling.
909
00:37:57.984 --> 00:37:59.706
I love small presentations.
910
00:37:59.746 --> 00:38:01.628
Like you guys are great on stage, by the way.
911
00:38:01.748 --> 00:38:02.028
Thanks.
912
00:38:02.188 --> 00:38:03.950
I'm not getting great on stage.
913
00:38:03.990 --> 00:38:05.992
I'm like, I want to be smaller groups.
914
00:38:06.813 --> 00:38:08.494
Like, and I'm more of an operations guy.
915
00:38:08.715 --> 00:38:10.036
I think that's the way I look at myself.
916
00:38:10.076 --> 00:38:11.537
I'm like, I can fix any business.
917
00:38:11.738 --> 00:38:12.218
Yeah.
918
00:38:12.238 --> 00:38:15.221
Maybe not any, but like a lot of business, I can, I can fix them.
919
00:38:15.521 --> 00:38:15.761
Yeah.
920
00:38:16.082 --> 00:38:17.743
If they stay hard on me, I'd fix them.
921
00:38:17.884 --> 00:38:18.724
But, um,
922
00:38:19.741 --> 00:38:26.943
But it's different when it's like, like sales to me is one thing, but it was always like I'd book broker presentations.
923
00:38:26.983 --> 00:38:30.585
I would book like, okay, let me go in and teach you about something.
924
00:38:30.705 --> 00:38:32.225
I was never about like, use us.
925
00:38:32.285 --> 00:38:35.326
I was more like, let me teach you about drone and this.
926
00:38:35.446 --> 00:38:37.267
And like, not how it works.
927
00:38:37.307 --> 00:38:39.648
It's more about the reasons why you should do it, right?
928
00:38:39.748 --> 00:38:43.289
Or whatever it is so that they would be like, ah, I never knew that.
929
00:38:43.709 --> 00:38:46.230
Over your years of doing presentations, do you have like
930
00:38:47.046 --> 00:38:49.487
You know, kind of like in the bedroom where you have like your signature move.
931
00:38:49.787 --> 00:38:52.128
Do you have like your signature presentation move?
932
00:38:52.889 --> 00:38:53.789
This one always works.
933
00:38:53.869 --> 00:38:54.790
I'm trying to think of that.
934
00:38:54.830 --> 00:38:56.450
How do you close it at the end?
935
00:38:56.730 --> 00:38:59.152
We're still talking about sex, right?
936
00:38:59.192 --> 00:39:00.432
Yeah.
937
00:39:00.672 --> 00:39:02.153
Wait, wait, I'm confused.
938
00:39:02.593 --> 00:39:02.893
Yeah.
939
00:39:02.973 --> 00:39:03.693
I like sometimes.
940
00:39:03.713 --> 00:39:04.454
That's when Nicole comes in.
941
00:39:04.714 --> 00:39:04.934
Yeah.
942
00:39:04.954 --> 00:39:06.114
She's going to have to tell us, right?
943
00:39:06.134 --> 00:39:06.374
Honey.
944
00:39:06.674 --> 00:39:08.055
Yeah.
945
00:39:08.175 --> 00:39:12.196
No, sometimes I'll do a broker presentation and all I do is educate.
946
00:39:12.737 --> 00:39:13.697
No sales in it.
947
00:39:13.737 --> 00:39:14.597
I don't put up a price.
948
00:39:14.617 --> 00:39:15.418
I don't do anything.
949
00:39:15.838 --> 00:39:16.858
I get my planflits out.
950
00:39:16.898 --> 00:39:17.998
I put them out to everybody.
951
00:39:18.018 --> 00:39:18.559
Yeah.
952
00:39:18.839 --> 00:39:19.879
I'm like, here's my contact.
953
00:39:19.979 --> 00:39:20.939
Like, have a call with me.
954
00:39:21.860 --> 00:39:24.361
Sometimes I get no calls, which I'm always shocked by.
955
00:39:24.721 --> 00:39:28.622
So how do you wrap the end of the presentation to get people?
956
00:39:28.782 --> 00:39:29.803
You have to ask for the sale.
957
00:39:30.063 --> 00:39:30.383
Yeah.
958
00:39:30.443 --> 00:39:30.643
Right.
959
00:39:31.642 --> 00:39:36.927
And that's where I think people forget is like, even though I do these, I like call us, call us, we'll get you booked in.
960
00:39:36.947 --> 00:39:37.107
Right.
961
00:39:37.127 --> 00:39:38.228
And maybe that's how I end it.
962
00:39:39.470 --> 00:39:40.711
But you always have to ask for the sale.
963
00:39:40.891 --> 00:39:42.993
Never leave it where it's like, okay, good luck.
964
00:39:43.333 --> 00:39:43.653
Yeah.
965
00:39:43.674 --> 00:39:45.235
Cause it's just, they won't call you.
966
00:39:45.295 --> 00:39:47.257
And, and you know, like, it still happens to us.
967
00:39:47.317 --> 00:39:48.498
We did this golf tournament.
968
00:39:49.448 --> 00:39:52.230
And we passed around, I forget, it was like 25% off.
969
00:39:52.690 --> 00:39:53.291
Anything you want.
970
00:39:53.631 --> 00:39:56.813
I'm not thinking like, okay, my God, like there's so many business cards.
971
00:39:57.254 --> 00:39:58.455
We laugh with 25%.
972
00:39:59.115 --> 00:40:00.296
Guess how many booked with it?
973
00:40:00.756 --> 00:40:01.196
Zero?
974
00:40:01.397 --> 00:40:01.817
Zero.
975
00:40:02.317 --> 00:40:02.818
Maybe one.
976
00:40:03.018 --> 00:40:03.198
Yeah.
977
00:40:03.218 --> 00:40:05.900
And it was, but they still booked, but they didn't even use the code.
978
00:40:06.380 --> 00:40:06.780
Oh my God.
979
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:07.761
Which is the funniest part.
980
00:40:07.781 --> 00:40:08.882
And I'm like, why not?
981
00:40:08.902 --> 00:40:09.102
Yeah.
982
00:40:09.402 --> 00:40:10.363
Use the code we gave you.
983
00:40:10.403 --> 00:40:14.466
But yeah, we had people booked, but it was like, well, they're not even paying attention to that.
984
00:40:14.766 --> 00:40:15.006
Yeah.
985
00:40:15.186 --> 00:40:15.907
That's weird to me.
986
00:40:16.047 --> 00:40:16.227
Yeah.
987
00:40:16.247 --> 00:40:16.447
Like...
988
00:40:17.568 --> 00:40:20.849
I mean, I'm not one of those discount people, so I don't care how much about a discount.
989
00:40:20.869 --> 00:40:23.310
If it is a good service, I will pay extra for the good service.
990
00:40:23.330 --> 00:40:25.831
I've always been that way, and that's how I operate my business.
991
00:40:26.371 --> 00:40:29.673
But I'm like, I still don't understand why they wouldn't call me.
992
00:40:29.893 --> 00:40:34.194
I put a, with HC Photo Hub, you can put referrals and codes for agents that you work with.
993
00:40:34.234 --> 00:40:34.835
Oh, yeah, we do that.
994
00:40:34.875 --> 00:40:35.395
And I do that.
995
00:40:35.535 --> 00:40:35.715
And...
996
00:40:36.155 --> 00:40:39.076
I get so many referrals, nobody cashes in on the codes.
997
00:40:39.396 --> 00:40:39.576
Yeah.
998
00:40:39.596 --> 00:40:42.997
I don't know if your experience is that way, but it seems to be like a non- Rare.
999
00:40:43.377 --> 00:40:44.597
Yeah, it doesn't seem to matter.
1000
00:40:44.617 --> 00:40:45.577
It doesn't move the needle.
1001
00:40:45.617 --> 00:40:49.078
They just refer you because you're awesome, not because you're going to get 25%.
1002
00:40:49.278 --> 00:40:52.099
But think about what the realtor is thinking, right?
1003
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:54.279
Let's go back to what we were talking about just a minute ago.
1004
00:40:54.779 --> 00:40:58.240
The realtor is thinking, I can't mess this up.
1005
00:40:59.040 --> 00:40:59.921
This is my listing.
1006
00:41:00.141 --> 00:41:00.901
This is the listing.
1007
00:41:01.321 --> 00:41:02.441
How many listings do they get a year?
1008
00:41:02.521 --> 00:41:02.821
I don't know.
1009
00:41:03.261 --> 00:41:03.641
It doesn't matter.
1010
00:41:03.661 --> 00:41:04.902
If they get 100, they don't care that much.
1011
00:41:06.412 --> 00:41:32.714
five they're like don't mess this up i need you to do well for me don't fuck this up don't fuck this stuff and and so it's one of those where like you gotta put yourself in their minds they're like they're not hiring because you're the cheapest they're hiring because they trust you to do a good job yeah and but it's that fine line with the volume versus you know yeah and i actually don't like volume businesses i actually don't really like them but it turns out what do you consider okay i was gonna say what do you consider yourself
1012
00:41:33.514 --> 00:41:37.138
I think we're in the volume business because we have a repeated process.
1013
00:41:37.178 --> 00:41:41.082
And I do like the fact that it's also a business that is a repeat business.
1014
00:41:41.763 --> 00:41:47.508
Because the problem is with, I hated businesses where you had to get the next job.
1015
00:41:47.689 --> 00:41:49.570
And you were worried, do we have another job?
1016
00:41:49.751 --> 00:41:50.491
I don't even know all these...
1017
00:41:51.467 --> 00:41:55.529
video production companies work sometimes that work with corporations.
1018
00:41:55.549 --> 00:41:59.411
Because I'm like, oh my God, you're just dying for the next contract, right?
1019
00:41:59.531 --> 00:41:59.711
Yeah.
1020
00:42:00.391 --> 00:42:02.352
And it's like, oh, that's stressful to me.
1021
00:42:02.432 --> 00:42:04.513
I love the repeat business that we have.
1022
00:42:04.533 --> 00:42:07.034
I've been down to those sales funnels.
1023
00:42:07.094 --> 00:42:10.396
I've clicked on those Instagram things, like, and this is our system.
1024
00:42:10.796 --> 00:42:13.337
And it's always, at the end of it, they always-
1025
00:42:13.737 --> 00:42:18.681
Yeah, well, it's discount, but there's some sort of retainer that they offer these corporations.
1026
00:42:18.821 --> 00:42:19.021
Yeah.
1027
00:42:19.121 --> 00:42:22.063
Because they're trying to get retained business, because that's the entire thing.
1028
00:42:22.103 --> 00:42:25.185
Videography is so one-off.
1029
00:42:25.866 --> 00:42:31.670
And then I thought about real estate media, and we kind of have retained business without all the messiness of a contract.
1030
00:42:31.850 --> 00:42:33.031
And it's...
1031
00:42:33.552 --> 00:42:35.613
It's I thought... Do you do contracts with... No.
1032
00:42:35.693 --> 00:42:35.873
Yeah.
1033
00:42:35.933 --> 00:42:36.093
No?
1034
00:42:36.414 --> 00:42:36.574
No.
1035
00:42:36.734 --> 00:42:37.254
With anyone?
1036
00:42:37.394 --> 00:42:37.555
No.
1037
00:42:38.055 --> 00:42:38.695
Wow, crazy.
1038
00:42:38.896 --> 00:42:39.096
Yeah.
1039
00:42:39.376 --> 00:42:40.597
See, I love a good contract.
1040
00:42:40.697 --> 00:42:40.897
Yeah.
1041
00:42:41.017 --> 00:42:41.917
Oh, who doesn't?
1042
00:42:44.378 --> 00:42:44.899
It's great.
1043
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:53.022
But I find like, I'm like, if I'm not up to par, if I'm not the one to be like your best for you, why am I tying you to this contract?
1044
00:42:53.122 --> 00:42:53.362
Yeah.
1045
00:42:53.502 --> 00:42:53.862
Okay.
1046
00:42:54.282 --> 00:42:59.784
So I, you talked about client care being one of the biggest things in your business right now.
1047
00:42:59.804 --> 00:43:03.886
What do you do that you think is different than other real estate media companies in your area?
1048
00:43:04.146 --> 00:43:04.927
I'm still working on it.
1049
00:43:05.067 --> 00:43:05.687
Okay, great.
1050
00:43:05.788 --> 00:43:07.129
Yeah, but it's coming along.
1051
00:43:07.289 --> 00:43:07.529
Yeah.
1052
00:43:07.789 --> 00:43:11.873
So what I want to do is create more customer support after the fact.
1053
00:43:12.013 --> 00:43:12.473
Gotcha.
1054
00:43:12.814 --> 00:43:13.014
Right?
1055
00:43:13.034 --> 00:43:14.675
Doing that call and checking in.
1056
00:43:14.715 --> 00:43:16.337
Wait, 30 days later, it hasn't sold yet.
1057
00:43:16.397 --> 00:43:17.237
Well, what else can we do?
1058
00:43:17.318 --> 00:43:17.998
Yeah, okay.
1059
00:43:18.018 --> 00:43:18.519
Can we come in?
1060
00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:19.980
Can we do a video now?
1061
00:43:20.200 --> 00:43:21.161
Yeah.
1062
00:43:21.421 --> 00:43:24.564
What else can we do to make your listing sell?
1063
00:43:24.784 --> 00:43:26.465
So it's like client care slash sale.
1064
00:43:26.585 --> 00:43:29.406
Because like right now you deliver it and go, hey, good luck with it.
1065
00:43:29.466 --> 00:43:29.826
Yeah, exactly.
1066
00:43:29.846 --> 00:43:30.426
You've done our job.
1067
00:43:30.646 --> 00:43:31.086
See you later.
1068
00:43:31.546 --> 00:43:32.387
Call us on the next one.
1069
00:43:32.767 --> 00:43:34.547
But I'm like, I feel like there's a piece missing there.
1070
00:43:35.188 --> 00:43:38.729
And so I'm really trying to work on a process that, but that takes manpower.
1071
00:43:38.769 --> 00:43:41.870
That takes like, you know, it's not easy.
1072
00:43:41.890 --> 00:43:44.251
And yeah, it's, there's a lot to, it's easy to say it.
1073
00:43:45.451 --> 00:43:47.333
To make it happen, it's a whole different story.
1074
00:43:47.353 --> 00:43:53.637
Yeah, and to have that person, like, for their responsibility to lock in that, you know, new job.
1075
00:43:53.657 --> 00:43:53.797
Yeah.
1076
00:43:54.137 --> 00:43:58.961
To have that conversation, that cold call, that sale call, to lock it in, is a huge thing.
1077
00:43:59.777 --> 00:44:01.518
Can someone from overseas do it?
1078
00:44:02.138 --> 00:44:02.519
I don't know.
1079
00:44:03.219 --> 00:44:04.339
Oh, I don't know.
1080
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:05.200
I don't think like me.
1081
00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:08.522
I'm a I'm I want somebody here.
1082
00:44:08.562 --> 00:44:08.722
Yeah.
1083
00:44:09.042 --> 00:44:09.662
Who knows.
1084
00:44:09.682 --> 00:44:10.383
That's costly.
1085
00:44:10.543 --> 00:44:11.123
Yes, it is.
1086
00:44:11.263 --> 00:44:11.603
It is.
1087
00:44:12.123 --> 00:44:16.025
But if you can, I guess, sell it right, make the right percentage, which I don't do percentages.
1088
00:44:16.086 --> 00:44:16.746
But no, we don't.
1089
00:44:16.786 --> 00:44:17.006
Yeah.
1090
00:44:17.066 --> 00:44:20.788
I'm just like, it's the right move.
1091
00:44:21.028 --> 00:44:21.248
Yeah.
1092
00:44:21.608 --> 00:44:21.728
Yeah.
1093
00:44:21.748 --> 00:44:22.509
That'd be a great thing.
1094
00:44:23.382 --> 00:44:26.204
Yeah, that's why I feel customer service.
1095
00:44:26.504 --> 00:44:30.607
And listen, I'm from Europe, so there's no customer service over there, right?
1096
00:44:30.627 --> 00:44:33.169
Like you go to Europe, they're like, you don't like my food?
1097
00:44:33.229 --> 00:44:34.449
Get out of my restaurant, right?
1098
00:44:34.630 --> 00:44:37.051
They're like, oh, sir, we'll give you a discount the next time you come over.
1099
00:44:37.071 --> 00:44:38.492
No, they're not like that, right?
1100
00:44:38.512 --> 00:44:38.692
Yeah.
1101
00:44:38.912 --> 00:44:42.595
I'm a little still of that mentality in my operation, right?
1102
00:44:42.975 --> 00:44:47.076
But at the same time, I also recognize where there's a need for more.
1103
00:44:47.756 --> 00:44:52.017
It's not so much about like clawing in and saying, oh, can I help you?
1104
00:44:52.137 --> 00:44:53.517
Can we do anything better?
1105
00:44:53.557 --> 00:44:54.577
No, we've done great.
1106
00:44:54.657 --> 00:44:56.338
We've done everything you've asked us to do.
1107
00:44:56.798 --> 00:45:01.219
But what else can we do to help you get to a sale?
1108
00:45:01.319 --> 00:45:02.879
Essentially, they want to sell it.
1109
00:45:03.199 --> 00:45:06.960
And if they can go to the sellers and be like, yeah, I'm going to get them to come back in and do something else.
1110
00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:08.220
That can work against them.
1111
00:45:08.380 --> 00:45:11.761
Because to be honest, if I was a seller, I'd be like, why don't you do that the first time around?
1112
00:45:12.261 --> 00:45:12.702
It's true.
1113
00:45:12.842 --> 00:45:13.002
Right?
1114
00:45:13.183 --> 00:45:16.148
But I was like, but still, there's maybe an opportunity.
1115
00:45:16.228 --> 00:45:16.509
That's all.
1116
00:45:16.609 --> 00:45:18.152
It shows motivation for the agent, too.
1117
00:45:18.172 --> 00:45:19.554
You know, like, hey, I want to get this sold for you.
1118
00:45:19.574 --> 00:45:20.135
Hey, next time, do it.
1119
00:45:20.216 --> 00:45:20.416
Yeah.
1120
00:45:20.556 --> 00:45:21.097
Yeah.
1121
00:45:21.137 --> 00:45:21.518
100%.
1122
00:45:21.638 --> 00:45:21.838
Yeah.
1123
00:45:22.099 --> 00:45:22.259
Hmm.
1124
00:45:23.682 --> 00:45:25.285
What is the best aftercare product?
1125
00:45:26.608 --> 00:45:27.548
aftercare product?
1126
00:45:27.608 --> 00:45:28.628
I guess that's the wrong word.
1127
00:45:28.648 --> 00:45:29.169
Like a CRM?
1128
00:45:29.529 --> 00:45:30.109
No, no, no.
1129
00:45:30.129 --> 00:45:36.370
Sorry, what I meant is like 30 days later, like what is the thing that, have you had any success with that?
1130
00:45:36.630 --> 00:45:37.010
Not yet.
1131
00:45:37.150 --> 00:45:38.451
So we're just building that right now.
1132
00:45:38.471 --> 00:45:40.291
But again, that comes with the CRM.
1133
00:45:40.531 --> 00:45:43.872
And so you have to have a strong CRM system.
1134
00:45:44.052 --> 00:45:45.472
And it's what's taking us so long.
1135
00:45:46.093 --> 00:45:48.353
I've talked about this before and I'm like, I'm still not there.
1136
00:45:48.593 --> 00:45:52.674
But because it's just like, there's such a big setup to do.
1137
00:45:52.954 --> 00:45:55.555
Like if you're in HD Photo Hub and... Aereo.
1138
00:45:55.595 --> 00:45:56.095
Yeah.
1139
00:45:56.955 --> 00:45:58.396
Like you got to integrate all this stuff.
1140
00:45:58.416 --> 00:46:06.239
Like you can't be calling customers like, or even if you're cold calling that customers already are customers and then these guys are calling in and saying, Oh, Hey sir.
1141
00:46:06.459 --> 00:46:07.659
And then they're like, excuse me.
1142
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:09.700
Like who are, like, I know who you are.
1143
00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:13.962
And so, yeah, it's just awkward and sounds really bad.
1144
00:46:14.202 --> 00:46:14.902
Right.
1145
00:46:14.922 --> 00:46:15.803
To think about that way.
1146
00:46:15.823 --> 00:46:21.285
And that's not, I think any of our three styles to do that, but they're doing in the U S a lot.
1147
00:46:21.485 --> 00:46:21.705
Yes.
1148
00:46:21.845 --> 00:46:22.366
Oh, my God.
1149
00:46:22.426 --> 00:46:23.066
It's great.
1150
00:46:23.106 --> 00:46:24.787
Their business is so different from ours.
1151
00:46:24.847 --> 00:46:25.528
It is wild.
1152
00:46:25.588 --> 00:46:25.768
Yeah.
1153
00:46:26.088 --> 00:46:26.288
Yeah.
1154
00:46:26.509 --> 00:46:27.850
I'm noticing that a lot right now.
1155
00:46:27.930 --> 00:46:28.070
Yeah.
1156
00:46:28.110 --> 00:46:28.830
It's a culture thing.
1157
00:46:28.850 --> 00:46:30.471
And I think they're used to cold calling.
1158
00:46:30.632 --> 00:46:31.973
Like, I think it's just a thing there.
1159
00:46:32.093 --> 00:46:32.213
Yeah.
1160
00:46:32.233 --> 00:46:32.873
Like, for everything.
1161
00:46:33.013 --> 00:46:33.293
Mm-hmm.
1162
00:46:33.414 --> 00:46:35.335
And here, we're like, I don't know this number.
1163
00:46:36.095 --> 00:46:36.656
Yeah.
1164
00:46:36.696 --> 00:46:36.976
Block.
1165
00:46:37.056 --> 00:46:38.017
I just, yeah, block, right?
1166
00:46:38.037 --> 00:46:39.758
Like, you're like, it says spam.
1167
00:46:39.858 --> 00:46:40.659
I'm not answering it.
1168
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:40.899
Yeah.
1169
00:46:40.919 --> 00:46:41.079
Yeah.
1170
00:46:41.099 --> 00:46:41.599
Exactly.
1171
00:46:41.619 --> 00:46:41.779
Yeah.
1172
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:44.882
Where are you at with, um...
1173
00:46:46.089 --> 00:46:48.051
exiting or leaving or retiring.
1174
00:46:48.371 --> 00:46:48.832
Good question.
1175
00:46:48.852 --> 00:46:49.532
What do you think about that?
1176
00:46:49.572 --> 00:46:51.294
I want to know because I want to be you when I grow up.
1177
00:46:51.674 --> 00:46:52.735
No, you don't.
1178
00:46:53.076 --> 00:46:54.517
I want a Muskoka room.
1179
00:46:54.537 --> 00:46:55.177
My God.
1180
00:46:56.699 --> 00:46:57.059
You know what?
1181
00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:00.182
Actually, I'll tell you one thing my friend Tyler says to me all the time.
1182
00:47:00.222 --> 00:47:00.562
He goes...
1183
00:47:01.574 --> 00:47:03.375
When you die, you can't take your money with you.
1184
00:47:04.316 --> 00:47:05.697
So you might as well enjoy it.
1185
00:47:06.097 --> 00:47:07.938
Might as well spend it, have a good time with it.
1186
00:47:08.418 --> 00:47:11.260
And it's not like I have Ubered amounts of money.
1187
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:12.901
It's just that you got to...
1188
00:47:13.221 --> 00:47:15.283
So my thing was I was in real estate early.
1189
00:47:15.583 --> 00:47:20.126
I was able to... And this place is not a product of just visual advantage.
1190
00:47:20.186 --> 00:47:20.966
It's not.
1191
00:47:21.126 --> 00:47:23.428
This is a product of me investing in real estate long.
1192
00:47:23.848 --> 00:47:26.490
When I was 20 years old and doing the things I did.
1193
00:47:26.550 --> 00:47:29.171
This is not a product of just visual advantage.
1194
00:47:29.251 --> 00:47:29.591
Yeah.
1195
00:47:30.692 --> 00:47:36.597
So I would say personally, my exit strategy is I do want to exit.
1196
00:47:37.157 --> 00:47:39.579
I do want to exit at the right time.
1197
00:47:39.780 --> 00:47:40.880
I don't think I'm ready yet.
1198
00:47:41.141 --> 00:47:43.082
I still have a lot to prove still.
1199
00:47:44.397 --> 00:47:46.738
I'm a fair guy, but I'm still very competitive.
1200
00:47:46.939 --> 00:47:47.199
Yeah.
1201
00:47:47.279 --> 00:47:47.779
Right?
1202
00:47:48.259 --> 00:47:51.741
Like, the funny thing is we're like a triangle, the three of us.
1203
00:47:51.762 --> 00:47:51.882
Yeah.
1204
00:47:51.902 --> 00:47:54.243
Because I'm like, we're both competing with both of us.
1205
00:47:54.263 --> 00:47:55.064
Yeah.
1206
00:47:55.084 --> 00:47:58.305
But it's like, but we can have this conversation, which is amazing, right?
1207
00:47:58.326 --> 00:47:59.406
Because we're from Canadian.
1208
00:47:59.826 --> 00:48:00.467
Yeah, maybe.
1209
00:48:00.567 --> 00:48:01.868
But you're right.
1210
00:48:01.888 --> 00:48:02.728
Maybe that's what it is.
1211
00:48:02.828 --> 00:48:08.752
It's like, I wouldn't feel like if we took a customer from you or from you, I'd be like, I don't feel great about it.
1212
00:48:08.792 --> 00:48:09.993
Like, that's not what I live for.
1213
00:48:10.013 --> 00:48:11.634
There's lots of clients out there.
1214
00:48:11.654 --> 00:48:11.754
Yeah.
1215
00:48:11.834 --> 00:48:11.954
Yeah.
1216
00:48:12.334 --> 00:48:13.596
Like we can live in parallel.
1217
00:48:13.976 --> 00:48:17.361
You know, there is no, and you touched on that at the summit.
1218
00:48:17.661 --> 00:48:23.749
I was like, you're like, I want to just hang with other Canadians and build relationships with competitors.
1219
00:48:24.370 --> 00:48:27.234
Or not competitors, but people in the industry that are from here.
1220
00:48:27.294 --> 00:48:27.374
And.
1221
00:48:28.193 --> 00:48:30.554
It's interesting that the three of us can get together today.
1222
00:48:30.574 --> 00:48:33.236
Like, I just, it's mind blowing in a way, right?
1223
00:48:33.736 --> 00:48:35.497
Because it is exactly what you talked about.
1224
00:48:35.557 --> 00:48:38.079
But it was like, it's a fun thing to have.
1225
00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:42.762
And I don't think it needs to be so like, oh, I can't talk to this person because they're my competitor.
1226
00:48:42.962 --> 00:48:43.202
Yeah.
1227
00:48:43.222 --> 00:48:44.583
Like, I hated that.
1228
00:48:44.703 --> 00:48:50.146
And I, like, even before your summit or any of that, I talked to everybody, even all my competitors.
1229
00:48:50.226 --> 00:48:50.947
I'd call them up.
1230
00:48:51.267 --> 00:48:52.768
I'd be like, hey, what's up?
1231
00:48:52.828 --> 00:48:54.089
And I studied my competitors.
1232
00:48:54.409 --> 00:48:55.309
I know everything about you guys.
1233
00:48:55.389 --> 00:48:55.750
Mm-hmm.
1234
00:48:56.410 --> 00:48:57.711
You don't know anything about us.
1235
00:48:58.372 --> 00:48:59.313
Okay, maybe not that much.
1236
00:48:59.353 --> 00:49:01.255
But I did study it back in the days.
1237
00:49:01.295 --> 00:49:05.919
I was like, I would study my competitors heavily to know what they're about.
1238
00:49:06.540 --> 00:49:07.321
What are they doing?
1239
00:49:07.341 --> 00:49:08.602
Where are they coming from?
1240
00:49:08.642 --> 00:49:09.863
What's their past experience?
1241
00:49:09.883 --> 00:49:10.944
Like, are they marketing people?
1242
00:49:10.964 --> 00:49:14.448
Are they like, you know, they come as just a photography background?
1243
00:49:14.468 --> 00:49:17.871
Like, I just need to know about them to understand how they're operating.
1244
00:49:17.891 --> 00:49:19.072
And I'm like, okay, I'm good.
1245
00:49:19.292 --> 00:49:20.594
Or I'm like, oh, I'm worried.
1246
00:49:20.614 --> 00:49:20.834
Yeah.
1247
00:49:20.914 --> 00:49:21.214
Yeah.
1248
00:49:21.314 --> 00:49:23.515
What can I do to, you know, offset things, right?
1249
00:49:23.535 --> 00:49:29.578
Yeah, I think like when I first started, I thought this was like the biggest cutthroat industry ever.
1250
00:49:29.858 --> 00:49:32.220
So I didn't want to be friends with anybody.
1251
00:49:32.240 --> 00:49:33.180
I wouldn't talk to anybody.
1252
00:49:33.200 --> 00:49:33.680
Oh, interesting.
1253
00:49:33.720 --> 00:49:37.142
And then I would unfollow people on Instagram because it would give me anxiety.
1254
00:49:37.342 --> 00:49:37.522
Yeah.
1255
00:49:37.602 --> 00:49:38.683
I was like, fuck, they're doing this.
1256
00:49:38.763 --> 00:49:41.504
And then it would add pressure to me to try and be like them.
1257
00:49:41.564 --> 00:49:44.846
But I was like, we're a whole different business, different like values, whatever.
1258
00:49:44.866 --> 00:49:46.607
I got over that, thank God.
1259
00:49:46.687 --> 00:49:48.448
And I think it was because of PMRE I got over it.
1260
00:49:48.468 --> 00:49:48.568
Yeah.
1261
00:49:48.708 --> 00:49:48.948
Yeah.
1262
00:49:49.108 --> 00:49:57.814
But like this industry is something that if you don't talk to other real estate media owners, you're never going to progress.
1263
00:49:58.014 --> 00:49:58.254
No.
1264
00:49:58.434 --> 00:49:58.854
You're not.
1265
00:49:58.874 --> 00:50:00.575
Well, it's back to my PMRE the first year.
1266
00:50:00.595 --> 00:50:04.858
And I was like, I was so depressed after it because I was like, there's so much to do.
1267
00:50:04.978 --> 00:50:05.238
Yeah.
1268
00:50:05.258 --> 00:50:08.721
Like I was so in like, we have to change everything.
1269
00:50:09.041 --> 00:50:10.722
We have to rethink how we're doing everything.
1270
00:50:10.782 --> 00:50:12.543
Like from A to Z.
1271
00:50:12.883 --> 00:50:17.506
And thankfully, we're able to keep our staff like accepting these changes and stuff.
1272
00:50:17.546 --> 00:50:18.407
But it was, it was.
1273
00:50:19.453 --> 00:50:20.593
It's a scary thing to do.
1274
00:50:20.874 --> 00:50:28.116
I think if you have never attended PMRE or any like real estate media conference, you're missing out on so much.
1275
00:50:28.196 --> 00:50:29.397
Well, you're not in the business though.
1276
00:50:29.437 --> 00:50:30.117
Yeah.
1277
00:50:30.137 --> 00:50:34.959
But you might just be a guy who just does this because it's easy money for you because you have a few clients, right?
1278
00:50:34.999 --> 00:50:37.200
Like you have to like, there's perspective to that.
1279
00:50:37.220 --> 00:50:41.401
And I think like for us, it's like, hey man, we're in different zone than they are.
1280
00:50:41.441 --> 00:50:41.681
Right.
1281
00:50:42.382 --> 00:50:44.002
And not to say they're not good.
1282
00:50:44.042 --> 00:50:44.762
Like they're great.
1283
00:50:44.842 --> 00:50:45.823
And, but it's just like.
1284
00:50:46.653 --> 00:50:47.554
It's a different lifestyle.
1285
00:50:47.594 --> 00:50:48.716
It's a different mental state.
1286
00:50:48.776 --> 00:50:53.842
But I think, though, if we take a step back and we look at all of our competition, because they're pretty much the same.
1287
00:50:53.962 --> 00:50:54.162
Yeah.
1288
00:50:54.703 --> 00:50:55.444
None of them are there.
1289
00:50:55.784 --> 00:50:57.126
It's just me and you.
1290
00:50:57.246 --> 00:50:57.446
Yeah.
1291
00:50:57.967 --> 00:50:58.347
You're right.
1292
00:50:58.427 --> 00:50:59.008
It's crazy.
1293
00:50:59.609 --> 00:51:04.094
So I'm like, you guys are missing out on, and I'm grateful because we get all the value and all those changes.
1294
00:51:04.134 --> 00:51:04.374
Yeah.
1295
00:51:05.035 --> 00:51:05.616
Oh my God.
1296
00:51:05.656 --> 00:51:06.637
I just think it's wild.
1297
00:51:06.877 --> 00:51:07.317
It is wild.
1298
00:51:07.418 --> 00:51:07.698
Yeah.
1299
00:51:07.818 --> 00:51:09.019
But they're not looking at it as a business.
1300
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:09.219
Yeah.
1301
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:09.640
That's why.
1302
00:51:10.020 --> 00:51:10.961
They're not looking at it as a business.
1303
00:51:10.981 --> 00:51:12.843
They're looking at it as like, this is what I'm doing.
1304
00:51:13.364 --> 00:51:14.365
This is what I'm doing right now.
1305
00:51:14.405 --> 00:51:19.510
But they're not looking at it from like, I'm going to operate this business and grow this business like you and I are thinking.
1306
00:51:19.730 --> 00:51:19.870
Yeah.
1307
00:51:20.010 --> 00:51:22.491
They're thinking this is my, what I'm doing right now.
1308
00:51:22.571 --> 00:51:25.593
And maybe next year I'll be doing something else.
1309
00:51:25.653 --> 00:51:29.454
Like, I feel like there, a lot of people are doing real estate just because it's easy money.
1310
00:51:30.015 --> 00:51:38.098
Although it's not great money, but it's still easy money because you have a couple of clients that, you know, you, you live for and that you do a good job for and they call you back.
1311
00:51:38.399 --> 00:51:41.640
But, but that's not growing a business, I guess.
1312
00:51:41.680 --> 00:51:43.701
That's maybe the, where I'm at with it.
1313
00:51:44.221 --> 00:51:44.401
Yeah.
1314
00:51:44.682 --> 00:51:45.342
You're surviving.
1315
00:51:46.286 --> 00:51:47.168
Yeah, you're surviving.
1316
00:51:47.208 --> 00:51:48.370
You're doing okay.
1317
00:51:48.570 --> 00:51:51.937
But you're not building this, like, something you could sell.
1318
00:51:52.197 --> 00:51:56.565
You're not growing something that you could take and then say –
1319
00:51:57.845 --> 00:52:00.445
You know, like, this could live without me.
1320
00:52:00.485 --> 00:52:02.646
If I die today, visual advantage is still around.
1321
00:52:03.386 --> 00:52:03.626
Right?
1322
00:52:03.726 --> 00:52:05.546
Like, that's what it comes down to.
1323
00:52:06.127 --> 00:52:09.127
And I feel like that's why I never called it Phil's photography business.
1324
00:52:09.147 --> 00:52:09.287
Yeah.
1325
00:52:09.507 --> 00:52:10.707
Where a lot of people make that mistake.
1326
00:52:10.767 --> 00:52:11.107
Yes, they do.
1327
00:52:11.127 --> 00:52:12.668
Like, wedding photographers are the worst for that.
1328
00:52:12.828 --> 00:52:13.228
Yeah.
1329
00:52:13.588 --> 00:52:15.048
They're like, they're calling it their own names.
1330
00:52:15.088 --> 00:52:17.709
I'm like, well, how are you going to, like, where is this?
1331
00:52:17.849 --> 00:52:18.989
Well, maybe someone will buy it.
1332
00:52:19.109 --> 00:52:20.229
Sell it with your name on it?
1333
00:52:20.249 --> 00:52:20.949
It makes no sense.
1334
00:52:21.169 --> 00:52:21.369
Yeah.
1335
00:52:21.989 --> 00:52:22.190
Right?
1336
00:52:23.290 --> 00:52:24.170
I've been trying to, like...
1337
00:52:25.098 --> 00:52:28.240
do mini roll-ups with the other solo guys in Muskoka.
1338
00:52:28.300 --> 00:52:28.580
Yeah.
1339
00:52:28.660 --> 00:52:28.820
Yeah.
1340
00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:29.240
How's that going?
1341
00:52:29.260 --> 00:52:30.161
Cause we talked about that last time.
1342
00:52:30.201 --> 00:52:31.261
I don't want anything to do with me.
1343
00:52:31.562 --> 00:52:31.862
Yeah.
1344
00:52:31.902 --> 00:52:34.063
Or maybe they do, but they're just like, yeah.
1345
00:52:34.123 --> 00:52:38.946
And I, the, the, I said to Ollie, I said, what's in it for them?
1346
00:52:39.266 --> 00:52:39.606
Yeah.
1347
00:52:39.646 --> 00:52:40.607
You have to think that way.
1348
00:52:40.627 --> 00:52:43.468
If you're going into that conversation, it's what's in it for them.
1349
00:52:43.749 --> 00:52:44.029
Yeah.
1350
00:52:44.049 --> 00:52:46.290
So you have to give them something they can't say no to.
1351
00:52:46.650 --> 00:52:49.732
And that's hard because what are you offering them?
1352
00:52:49.992 --> 00:52:51.573
I think the biggest thing you can offer.
1353
00:52:51.593 --> 00:52:52.233
Well, yeah.
1354
00:52:52.253 --> 00:52:54.674
Because I'm like, I can consolidate your back end.
1355
00:52:54.714 --> 00:52:54.914
Right.
1356
00:52:55.034 --> 00:52:56.495
To instantly make you more money.
1357
00:52:56.515 --> 00:52:58.516
Because I just have, I know I have better deals than you.
1358
00:52:58.536 --> 00:52:58.996
But that's a trust.
1359
00:52:59.436 --> 00:52:59.736
It is a trust.
1360
00:52:59.756 --> 00:53:01.737
They would have to hand over their business.
1361
00:53:01.777 --> 00:53:03.278
Like, to be like, okay, Ollie, you dig it.
1362
00:53:03.498 --> 00:53:03.718
Yeah.
1363
00:53:03.758 --> 00:53:06.979
Like, they have to feel freaking like, wow, you guys have to have a strong relationship.
1364
00:53:06.999 --> 00:53:11.281
The only direct feedback is like, I'm very particular about the way I do things.
1365
00:53:11.421 --> 00:53:11.521
Yeah.
1366
00:53:11.561 --> 00:53:12.942
And I was like, well, it's going to be a nightmare.
1367
00:53:12.962 --> 00:53:13.782
What's the other thing I said?
1368
00:53:14.943 --> 00:53:17.226
Why are those realtors calling them and not you?
1369
00:53:17.266 --> 00:53:19.868
Yeah, because they have this personal relationship.
1370
00:53:20.109 --> 00:53:21.210
So what are they giving up?
1371
00:53:21.670 --> 00:53:25.434
They're giving up a percentage to then let you operate it.
1372
00:53:25.474 --> 00:53:27.997
But then that client goes, well, I didn't want to talk to Ali.
1373
00:53:28.037 --> 00:53:30.820
If I wanted to talk to Ali, I would have talked to Ali like six months ago.
1374
00:53:31.240 --> 00:53:33.482
Well, the thing I see is like phase one is...
1375
00:53:34.203 --> 00:53:36.344
you keep your business forward facing phase one.
1376
00:53:36.404 --> 00:53:39.665
I keep, but we're just going to like share the stuff they can't see.
1377
00:53:39.685 --> 00:53:44.647
And that way we're both going to make 20% more this season because we are sharing expenses.
1378
00:53:44.667 --> 00:53:45.087
That's smart.
1379
00:53:45.388 --> 00:53:53.491
Um, that that's, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to hunt one of them down and make them like see the light because I see, you know, like I just hired, tell me what you think of this.
1380
00:53:53.791 --> 00:53:53.951
Yeah.
1381
00:53:54.471 --> 00:53:55.271
I just hired, uh,
1382
00:53:56.672 --> 00:53:59.074
a woman that worked for Coldwell Banker and Remax.
1383
00:53:59.094 --> 00:54:01.355
She was an admin, so she knows real estate agents.
1384
00:54:01.776 --> 00:54:02.977
And I'm going to start cold calling.
1385
00:54:03.497 --> 00:54:10.001
But I was like, she's the perfect woman to do this because she also, she works at like our best pub in town.
1386
00:54:10.021 --> 00:54:12.203
So she's like really good gift of the gap.
1387
00:54:12.483 --> 00:54:12.663
Yeah.
1388
00:54:13.184 --> 00:54:20.149
And my structure, she's getting a thousand dollars a month just as like a data entry.
1389
00:54:20.329 --> 00:54:20.469
Yeah.
1390
00:54:20.669 --> 00:54:24.692
And just every call she has, she's, you know, that's just her stipend.
1391
00:54:24.792 --> 00:54:24.972
Yeah.
1392
00:54:25.232 --> 00:54:25.713
And then, yeah,
1393
00:54:26.573 --> 00:54:30.216
When she books somebody in, she gets 100% of that booking.
1394
00:54:30.516 --> 00:54:32.298
It's paid out over three jobs.
1395
00:54:32.338 --> 00:54:33.679
50% on the first, 25%, 25%.
1396
00:54:33.779 --> 00:54:36.201
And then the commission structure's over.
1397
00:54:36.921 --> 00:54:38.703
As Mr. Business, what do you think of that?
1398
00:54:38.923 --> 00:54:39.143
Great.
1399
00:54:39.423 --> 00:54:39.864
You like that?
1400
00:54:39.964 --> 00:54:40.304
I like it.
1401
00:54:40.704 --> 00:54:41.005
Okay.
1402
00:54:41.245 --> 00:54:41.685
I like it too.
1403
00:54:41.705 --> 00:54:42.306
I feel validated.
1404
00:54:42.426 --> 00:54:44.327
Yeah, no, for sure.
1405
00:54:44.367 --> 00:54:45.348
But that's what's in it for her.
1406
00:54:45.388 --> 00:54:51.133
While she's getting commissions, she's passionate about getting that person to come back again.
1407
00:54:51.153 --> 00:54:53.434
If you don't do that repeat, it's like...
1408
00:54:54.310 --> 00:54:58.011
As long as they sign up once, boom, I get my... You got to think about how salespeople think.
1409
00:54:58.352 --> 00:55:00.352
They think, I got my money.
1410
00:55:00.632 --> 00:55:01.893
I don't need to make them repeat.
1411
00:55:02.313 --> 00:55:02.993
There's no incentive.
1412
00:55:03.293 --> 00:55:04.234
They're just like, I'm done.
1413
00:55:04.254 --> 00:55:05.634
I don't need to call that person.
1414
00:55:05.794 --> 00:55:06.515
Yeah.
1415
00:55:06.775 --> 00:55:08.715
That's the biggest thing lacking in my business is sales.
1416
00:55:08.895 --> 00:55:12.277
So the fact that you're doing cold calling, I'm like, fuck, I got to start doing it.
1417
00:55:12.297 --> 00:55:13.837
Because I'm the boots on the ground person.
1418
00:55:13.877 --> 00:55:14.457
I'm going to go...
1419
00:55:14.477 --> 00:55:15.538
But it doesn't mean that's right.
1420
00:55:16.018 --> 00:55:22.164
I don't think you're like, you're far off from doing the right stuff because I'm like, you know, I just don't have enough boots on the ground.
1421
00:55:22.184 --> 00:55:22.465
Yeah.
1422
00:55:22.545 --> 00:55:26.629
So like, you know, like if that's working for you, keep doing it.
1423
00:55:26.689 --> 00:55:26.889
Yeah.
1424
00:55:27.189 --> 00:55:30.553
Cause it really, it could hurt my business if it doesn't work out well.
1425
00:55:31.113 --> 00:55:32.234
And I'm doubling down.
1426
00:55:32.294 --> 00:55:33.416
They'll be calling you going,
1427
00:55:34.016 --> 00:56:03.148
visual van is just calling me and this guy knew nothing about virtual tours and he was trying to sell me on it yeah and they're calling you that's so it could go either way yeah yeah well that's why i see what happens yeah i'm good man you said you're gonna go into brokerages and like that's that's like in the fall i'm going to get the cold calling going and then i'm going to double up by like showing up at the actual brokerages and just saying hey and then my thought is it'd be like yeah yeah we actually just heard from your person you guys are basically putting me out of business
1428
00:56:03.968 --> 00:56:06.009
Is this an intervention?
1429
00:56:06.109 --> 00:56:08.389
Is this an intervention?
1430
00:56:09.710 --> 00:56:12.170
That's fascinating, but no, that's not why we're here.
1431
00:56:12.190 --> 00:56:15.191
I want to put everyone else out of business except you.
1432
00:56:15.211 --> 00:56:16.812
Yeah, same.
1433
00:56:16.852 --> 00:56:17.852
There's a couple in particular.
1434
00:56:17.872 --> 00:56:18.852
I feel like we have such a good vibe.
1435
00:56:18.912 --> 00:56:19.413
I could never.
1436
00:56:19.693 --> 00:56:19.953
Yeah.
1437
00:56:20.033 --> 00:56:21.273
I would never even feel good about it.
1438
00:56:21.393 --> 00:56:21.653
No.
1439
00:56:22.213 --> 00:56:23.154
So who do you use now?
1440
00:56:23.194 --> 00:56:23.414
Visual.
1441
00:56:23.454 --> 00:56:24.154
Okay, sorry.
1442
00:56:24.394 --> 00:56:24.714
You know what?
1443
00:56:24.774 --> 00:56:25.354
Keep using them.
1444
00:56:25.614 --> 00:56:25.994
Yeah.
1445
00:56:26.354 --> 00:56:26.975
Using this person?
1446
00:56:27.015 --> 00:56:27.995
Okay, right away.
1447
00:56:28.255 --> 00:56:31.056
Are you guys, do you know, are you kind of similarly priced?
1448
00:56:31.848 --> 00:56:32.688
I think we are.
1449
00:56:32.808 --> 00:56:33.409
I think we are.
1450
00:56:33.489 --> 00:56:34.849
Cause I'm not going to lie.
1451
00:56:35.030 --> 00:56:37.451
Recently I've used chat to figure out my competition area.
1452
00:56:37.471 --> 00:56:38.131
You pop up.
1453
00:56:38.271 --> 00:56:39.072
Yeah.
1454
00:56:39.352 --> 00:56:39.512
Yeah.
1455
00:56:39.532 --> 00:56:39.692
Same.
1456
00:56:39.712 --> 00:56:40.492
I actually did that too.
1457
00:56:40.732 --> 00:56:42.813
I was like, Oh, who's, who does chat to people?
1458
00:56:42.853 --> 00:56:45.034
And then, so we're actually redoing our whole website right now.
1459
00:56:45.395 --> 00:56:45.635
Cool.
1460
00:56:45.835 --> 00:56:47.556
And it's all like, and it's AI driven.
1461
00:56:47.576 --> 00:56:50.677
Like it's actually, Claude is doing the old website for us.
1462
00:56:50.697 --> 00:56:51.277
Love it.
1463
00:56:51.378 --> 00:56:51.578
Good.
1464
00:56:51.598 --> 00:56:53.078
And it's actually doing such a good job.
1465
00:56:53.098 --> 00:56:53.879
I can't wait to launch it.
1466
00:56:54.679 --> 00:56:57.280
But, but yeah, it's, it's funny you say that.
1467
00:56:57.300 --> 00:56:57.961
Cause I, I didn't,
1468
00:56:58.807 --> 00:57:20.957
do the same thing and you guys came up in our in the guelph area and kitchen we're like one of the top for sure um but yeah it's it's funny because like yeah i think our pricing is probably similar we just have a i think we have a different vibe to to our businesses and it's like some people like it some people like you and there's just a lot of you know there's nothing wrong with that yeah you know
1469
00:57:22.037 --> 00:57:22.678
No, not at all.
1470
00:57:22.898 --> 00:57:23.839
Can I pause and pee?
1471
00:57:24.019 --> 00:57:24.219
Yeah.
1472
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:25.240
Yeah, you can do it.
1473
00:57:25.260 --> 00:57:26.560
So that martini went straight through.
1474
00:57:26.580 --> 00:57:27.361
Oh my God, yeah.
1475
00:57:27.861 --> 00:57:33.625
The one thing you actually talked about when we first started was how you've had employees stay with you for so long.
1476
00:57:34.126 --> 00:57:37.568
This is a huge question people ask me is how do you keep your employees?
1477
00:57:37.928 --> 00:57:44.213
So if you've been in business for 18 years, some of them with you for 10, 15, how do you actually keep them?
1478
00:57:45.245 --> 00:57:45.925
Have their backs.
1479
00:57:46.286 --> 00:57:46.466
Yeah.
1480
00:57:46.486 --> 00:57:46.986
In what way?
1481
00:57:47.046 --> 00:57:47.867
It's like the biggest thing.
1482
00:57:48.367 --> 00:57:51.789
Like if somebody complains, I don't point the finger at them.
1483
00:57:51.849 --> 00:57:53.030
I'm like, okay, what have we done?
1484
00:57:53.170 --> 00:57:53.550
Like what?
1485
00:57:54.010 --> 00:57:55.091
Okay, let me talk to them.
1486
00:57:55.231 --> 00:57:56.172
I'll talk to the client.
1487
00:57:56.272 --> 00:57:56.652
Be like...
1488
00:57:57.091 --> 00:57:59.253
okay, well, you know, so-and-so is doing a great job.
1489
00:57:59.293 --> 00:58:00.254
They were trying their best.
1490
00:58:00.274 --> 00:58:00.995
This is what happened.
1491
00:58:01.015 --> 00:58:04.138
They were there and people were moving stuff around and they missed a room.
1492
00:58:04.238 --> 00:58:06.601
Like, this is why we say you got to be 100% show ready.
1493
00:58:06.841 --> 00:58:08.182
Like, I never throw them under the bus.
1494
00:58:08.242 --> 00:58:08.903
Yeah.
1495
00:58:08.963 --> 00:58:20.074
And I think that's probably the number one thing I get from those people that have been with me for so long that they say, like, wow, this is why I'm with you still.
1496
00:58:20.394 --> 00:58:20.655
Mm-hmm.
1497
00:58:21.225 --> 00:58:25.173
They don't feel like I'm just this boss guy who's just like, no, no, you screwed up.
1498
00:58:25.213 --> 00:58:25.974
You got to go back.
1499
00:58:26.014 --> 00:58:28.960
You know, like there's times when it used to happen.
1500
00:58:29.040 --> 00:58:31.865
But I feel like there's that.
1501
00:58:31.886 --> 00:58:31.986
Yeah.
1502
00:58:33.033 --> 00:58:34.294
And what do people care about?
1503
00:58:34.654 --> 00:58:34.935
Pay.
1504
00:58:35.555 --> 00:58:36.316
Get paid well.
1505
00:58:37.217 --> 00:58:39.959
And then, you know, feeling they're part of a team.
1506
00:58:39.979 --> 00:58:41.680
They're part of something that's growing.
1507
00:58:41.941 --> 00:58:42.941
We're not stagnant.
1508
00:58:43.242 --> 00:58:50.508
We're, we had the moment of stagnation, I guess, that happened right after COVID.
1509
00:58:50.528 --> 00:58:55.012
But after that, we've, again, reinvented ourselves again and all that stuff.
1510
00:58:55.032 --> 00:58:55.192
Yeah.
1511
00:58:55.907 --> 00:59:06.103
I feel like, I find it funny when I go to PMRE, your event was that people come up and they're like, oh, you're Phil from Visual Advantage.
1512
00:59:06.744 --> 00:59:09.508
I've looked up to you for a while or looked at what you guys do.
1513
00:59:09.568 --> 00:59:09.869
I'm like...
1514
00:59:10.782 --> 00:59:10.942
Us?
1515
00:59:11.362 --> 00:59:11.683
Yeah.
1516
00:59:11.723 --> 00:59:13.464
I'm like, it's funny to hear sometimes, right?
1517
00:59:13.484 --> 00:59:13.784
Yeah.
1518
00:59:13.804 --> 00:59:14.464
So cool, though.
1519
00:59:14.605 --> 00:59:15.245
Yeah, it is cool.
1520
00:59:15.425 --> 00:59:18.907
And it's kind of a nice compliment.
1521
00:59:19.468 --> 00:59:25.692
But it is something that for who we keep and, you know, do we have duds on board?
1522
00:59:25.752 --> 00:59:26.032
Yeah.
1523
00:59:26.352 --> 00:59:28.053
Yeah, we got a lot of losers, right?
1524
00:59:28.153 --> 00:59:28.773
They're gone.
1525
00:59:28.834 --> 00:59:30.975
But it's just hard to deal with.
1526
00:59:30.995 --> 00:59:31.955
You hire somebody.
1527
00:59:31.976 --> 00:59:33.176
I'm like, why did we hire this?
1528
00:59:33.456 --> 00:59:35.017
It's the best person we could find right now.
1529
00:59:35.218 --> 00:59:35.478
Yeah.
1530
00:59:35.638 --> 00:59:38.520
But then you're like, you just don't want them around, right?
1531
00:59:38.540 --> 00:59:38.700
Yeah.
1532
00:59:38.720 --> 00:59:38.820
Yeah.
1533
00:59:39.260 --> 00:59:41.002
And so we've all been there.
1534
00:59:41.042 --> 00:59:43.784
That's the hardest part about growing is managing people.
1535
00:59:44.965 --> 00:59:46.846
There's nothing harder than managing people.
1536
00:59:47.227 --> 00:59:55.073
And you'll learn as you grow that, you know, you think it's like, well, we just we just had one more person and another person.
1537
00:59:55.493 --> 00:59:57.054
It's it's not like that at all.
1538
00:59:57.134 --> 00:59:59.316
It's no, there's a lot of weight on your shoulders.
1539
00:59:59.336 --> 01:00:00.677
You got to keep that person busy.
1540
01:00:01.218 --> 01:00:03.399
They depend on you to feed their families.
1541
01:00:03.640 --> 01:00:04.721
You're the one who's like.
1542
01:00:05.561 --> 01:00:09.025
And nobody looks at it that way from when they're working for you.
1543
01:00:09.085 --> 01:00:11.188
But that is truly what happens.
1544
01:00:11.248 --> 01:00:15.072
And it's a pressure you'll always have.
1545
01:00:15.172 --> 01:00:16.974
And it's something that you learn to kind of...
1546
01:00:17.919 --> 01:00:18.279
Deal with.
1547
01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:18.920
Yeah.
1548
01:00:19.020 --> 01:00:23.564
It's the difference between being an entrepreneur and just being an employer.
1549
01:00:23.764 --> 01:00:23.925
Yeah.
1550
01:00:24.165 --> 01:00:27.608
If you're an entrepreneur, you carry that weight every single day.
1551
01:00:27.628 --> 01:00:27.888
Every day.
1552
01:00:28.108 --> 01:00:30.891
Being like, I got to make sure they can play their electricity bill.
1553
01:00:31.031 --> 01:00:31.191
Yeah.
1554
01:00:31.492 --> 01:00:32.553
And they can feed their family.
1555
01:00:32.633 --> 01:00:32.793
Yeah.
1556
01:00:32.913 --> 01:00:34.995
It is a massive, massive weight.
1557
01:00:35.295 --> 01:00:35.575
Yeah.
1558
01:00:35.635 --> 01:00:36.817
You just don't get rid of it.
1559
01:00:36.917 --> 01:00:37.357
No.
1560
01:00:37.757 --> 01:00:38.558
No matter what.
1561
01:00:38.718 --> 01:00:39.319
It's always there.
1562
01:00:39.339 --> 01:00:39.439
Yeah.
1563
01:00:39.559 --> 01:00:41.382
And when the high times are there, you're making good money.
1564
01:00:42.043 --> 01:00:45.068
But nobody looks at it and goes, well, that money is not forever.
1565
01:00:45.208 --> 01:00:47.472
That money is there in case we got a low time.
1566
01:00:47.692 --> 01:00:47.933
Yeah.
1567
01:00:48.193 --> 01:00:50.276
So then they don't look and nobody looks at it that way.
1568
01:00:50.296 --> 01:00:51.799
But it's something that...
1569
01:00:53.008 --> 01:00:55.190
It's a constant battle or whatever you want to call it.
1570
01:00:55.210 --> 01:00:58.272
It's not a battle, but it's just something that you have to learn how to deal with.
1571
01:00:58.733 --> 01:01:04.598
And if you're good to your people, usually they stick with you.
1572
01:01:04.618 --> 01:01:06.679
I have one photographer.
1573
01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:08.201
She's moving territories.
1574
01:01:08.421 --> 01:01:11.463
She's going from Guelph to Mississauga.
1575
01:01:11.723 --> 01:01:14.005
And I'm like, okay, she wants to move there.
1576
01:01:14.025 --> 01:01:14.926
She's like, I'm done with Guelph.
1577
01:01:14.946 --> 01:01:15.667
I don't want to be there anymore.
1578
01:01:15.687 --> 01:01:15.787
Yeah.
1579
01:01:16.839 --> 01:01:17.680
And she's like, I'm moving.
1580
01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:19.221
And I was like, oh my God, okay.
1581
01:01:19.261 --> 01:01:20.603
And she didn't say, well, I'm quitting.
1582
01:01:20.803 --> 01:01:22.144
She was like, can you move me there?
1583
01:01:22.164 --> 01:01:23.245
Right?
1584
01:01:23.265 --> 01:01:24.707
And that's like the biggest compliment.
1585
01:01:24.827 --> 01:01:25.107
Yeah.
1586
01:01:25.367 --> 01:01:26.128
That's like, wow.
1587
01:01:26.608 --> 01:01:30.612
You didn't even think like, I don't, I could just do my own thing over there, I guess, you know?
1588
01:01:30.712 --> 01:01:32.915
But obviously we're doing stuff now that's,
1589
01:01:33.495 --> 01:01:37.058
irreplaceable or that it would be hard for somebody to do on their own.
1590
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:44.405
And I think again, right after COVID we were in a time where it was easily redone and I've taught them everything.
1591
01:01:44.646 --> 01:01:46.588
Like, you know, they're editing, they're doing everything themselves.
1592
01:01:46.608 --> 01:01:48.269
So of course they can redo it themselves.
1593
01:01:48.870 --> 01:01:54.355
But now we're at a point where we've got so much backend support, like editors and stuff that, you know,
1594
01:01:54.635 --> 01:01:57.236
For someone to set that up, I don't know where they would start.
1595
01:01:57.256 --> 01:01:59.157
Because it took us a while to get there.
1596
01:01:59.197 --> 01:02:01.518
And that's with a whole team of people working towards it.
1597
01:02:02.479 --> 01:02:09.442
Versus like, you know, a single shooter who has to shoot and doesn't have the time to do it all.
1598
01:02:09.462 --> 01:02:09.962
Yeah.
1599
01:02:10.202 --> 01:02:11.123
Have you ever been burned?
1600
01:02:11.443 --> 01:02:11.663
Yeah.
1601
01:02:12.163 --> 01:02:12.704
Tell me about it.
1602
01:02:12.864 --> 01:02:13.064
Oh, yeah.
1603
01:02:13.104 --> 01:02:13.624
It's painful.
1604
01:02:13.784 --> 01:02:14.164
Yeah.
1605
01:02:14.184 --> 01:02:15.285
So I think I told you...
1606
01:02:16.438 --> 01:02:18.159
We're having dinner at PMRE.
1607
01:02:18.539 --> 01:02:19.640
And I said, it will happen to you.
1608
01:02:19.680 --> 01:02:20.821
I think I was pretty drunk, so.
1609
01:02:21.261 --> 01:02:21.501
Yeah.
1610
01:02:21.521 --> 01:02:21.962
Tell me again.
1611
01:02:22.482 --> 01:02:22.822
I said.
1612
01:02:22.862 --> 01:02:24.023
That was after my talk.
1613
01:02:24.083 --> 01:02:24.563
I told you.
1614
01:02:24.583 --> 01:02:25.564
Yeah, that's right.
1615
01:02:25.604 --> 01:02:26.204
That's right.
1616
01:02:26.685 --> 01:02:27.826
You did well there, too, by the way.
1617
01:02:27.966 --> 01:02:30.307
But it was like, yeah, I got burned.
1618
01:02:30.347 --> 01:02:33.890
I said, it will happen to you, and it's going to hurt bad.
1619
01:02:33.910 --> 01:02:37.092
And we're still in litigation with one of them because of it.
1620
01:02:38.112 --> 01:02:39.234
And it's just brutal.
1621
01:02:39.454 --> 01:02:41.236
And you're like, are you serious, man?
1622
01:02:41.256 --> 01:02:43.258
Like, I had your back this whole time, too.
1623
01:02:43.298 --> 01:02:45.401
Like, it wasn't like somebody who we didn't like.
1624
01:02:45.421 --> 01:02:53.049
It was just some guy who just had this chip on his shoulder who all of a sudden developed it and was like, I'm going to steal all your clients from Hamilton.
1625
01:02:53.370 --> 01:02:53.610
Mm-hmm.
1626
01:02:54.539 --> 01:02:55.560
Who the fuck is it?
1627
01:02:55.740 --> 01:02:56.421
Like, big time.
1628
01:02:56.461 --> 01:02:57.362
I'll steal his clients.
1629
01:02:57.742 --> 01:02:58.182
That's right.
1630
01:02:58.343 --> 01:02:58.983
You should do that.
1631
01:02:59.063 --> 01:03:00.505
Because we can't go back now.
1632
01:03:00.525 --> 01:03:02.627
And he actually burnt a bridge between those clients and us.
1633
01:03:03.007 --> 01:03:03.928
Wow.
1634
01:03:03.948 --> 01:03:04.008
No.
1635
01:03:04.028 --> 01:03:05.029
Because what is he going to say?
1636
01:03:05.489 --> 01:03:05.730
Mm-hmm.
1637
01:03:05.990 --> 01:03:07.591
Well, those guys are coming after me.
1638
01:03:07.771 --> 01:03:11.815
And it just becomes this, like, disgusting fucking mess, right?
1639
01:03:12.376 --> 01:03:14.077
And you're like, oh, my God.
1640
01:03:14.698 --> 01:03:18.421
And people are that ruthless or just, you can't change them.
1641
01:03:18.441 --> 01:03:19.082
That's who they are.
1642
01:03:19.382 --> 01:03:19.562
Right?
1643
01:03:19.582 --> 01:03:19.643
No.
1644
01:03:20.263 --> 01:03:26.667
But it's painful because you're just like, man, it's not from not caring or not being there for them.
1645
01:03:27.047 --> 01:03:27.287
Right?
1646
01:03:27.307 --> 01:03:29.328
The amount of times I was like, I'm coming to your house.
1647
01:03:30.188 --> 01:03:31.129
I'm going to help you out.
1648
01:03:31.249 --> 01:03:32.590
Like, we're going to work through this.
1649
01:03:32.670 --> 01:03:35.031
I can feel you're stressed and you're not happy.
1650
01:03:35.071 --> 01:03:41.515
I'm going to, you know, to the, like, F you, I'm doing my, I'm going to take your client.
1651
01:03:41.535 --> 01:03:45.397
You know, like, I would have way more respect if it was like, I'll go to London and start this myself.
1652
01:03:45.497 --> 01:03:45.597
Yeah.
1653
01:03:45.617 --> 01:03:45.737
Yeah.
1654
01:03:46.445 --> 01:03:48.986
And I've learned what I've learned from you, but I'm going to take it somewhere else.
1655
01:03:49.046 --> 01:03:50.006
I'm going to start it up there.
1656
01:03:50.026 --> 01:03:52.186
I would have been like, commendable.
1657
01:03:52.446 --> 01:03:53.347
I did that with weddings.
1658
01:03:53.707 --> 01:03:55.067
I worked for a company in Toronto.
1659
01:03:55.307 --> 01:03:56.347
I learned everything I needed to.
1660
01:03:56.367 --> 01:03:58.548
And then I said, I'm Muskoka.
1661
01:03:58.588 --> 01:04:00.428
And I just took the business model to Muskoka.
1662
01:04:00.528 --> 01:04:01.488
Yeah.
1663
01:04:01.508 --> 01:04:01.988
And it was great.
1664
01:04:02.208 --> 01:04:03.309
And I didn't feel guilty.
1665
01:04:03.329 --> 01:04:05.249
And I told them what I was doing.
1666
01:04:05.269 --> 01:04:07.730
They're like, yeah, well, I mean, we don't really do Muskoka.
1667
01:04:07.790 --> 01:04:09.310
It's a pain in the ass to drive up there.
1668
01:04:09.410 --> 01:04:10.871
So God bless, you know?
1669
01:04:10.991 --> 01:04:11.171
Yeah.
1670
01:04:11.511 --> 01:04:12.971
And that's, that's, you don't burn a bridge.
1671
01:04:13.252 --> 01:04:13.632
Yeah.
1672
01:04:13.832 --> 01:04:14.692
And you've, you've done it.
1673
01:04:14.772 --> 01:04:15.372
You did it right.
1674
01:04:15.432 --> 01:04:16.393
I would have done the same as you.
1675
01:04:16.913 --> 01:04:20.254
I don't think I would feel comfortable just literally stealing every client.
1676
01:04:20.715 --> 01:04:23.696
And just because you're there on site with them, you have that relationship.
1677
01:04:23.796 --> 01:04:24.016
Yeah.
1678
01:04:24.496 --> 01:04:28.998
But then, you know, quickly now I, could we get this like, well, they didn't deliver on time.
1679
01:04:29.018 --> 01:04:30.139
And people are starting to come back.
1680
01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:33.200
People are, it's just so funny how it turns around, but it's just like.
1681
01:04:33.997 --> 01:04:34.978
Yeah, they can't do it all.
1682
01:04:35.238 --> 01:04:35.378
No.
1683
01:04:35.418 --> 01:04:35.598
Right?
1684
01:04:35.618 --> 01:04:36.418
But they didn't realize.
1685
01:04:36.619 --> 01:04:36.739
No.
1686
01:04:36.759 --> 01:04:37.759
They have to do accounting work.
1687
01:04:37.819 --> 01:04:38.980
They have to do customer service.
1688
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:39.700
They have to shoot.
1689
01:04:39.740 --> 01:04:40.461
They have to do.
1690
01:04:40.481 --> 01:04:45.944
I do remember that when I took the wedding business to Muskoka, and I'm like, I'm going to start this year.
1691
01:04:45.964 --> 01:04:52.268
And I remember when I worked for them, I saw their invoices to the bride, and I saw what I was getting paid as a videographer.
1692
01:04:52.288 --> 01:04:52.628
And I'm like,
1693
01:04:53.181 --> 01:04:55.182
God damn, they're taking so much money from me.
1694
01:04:55.803 --> 01:04:57.444
If I did this myself, I'd be rich.
1695
01:04:58.044 --> 01:05:02.607
And then I started doing it myself and I'm like, whoa, that's a lot of business.
1696
01:05:02.627 --> 01:05:03.468
They deserve that.
1697
01:05:03.568 --> 01:05:05.149
And then I remember there was a brief period.
1698
01:05:05.169 --> 01:05:09.192
I'm like, I just want to go back to shooting and not have to deal with that headache.
1699
01:05:09.272 --> 01:05:12.794
So it's been, that was really sobering for me to see both sides.
1700
01:05:12.814 --> 01:05:13.455
So then when I went,
1701
01:05:14.155 --> 01:05:15.676
hard into real estate media.
1702
01:05:16.097 --> 01:05:19.980
I had a really good understanding of what I was getting into and on the business side.
1703
01:05:21.241 --> 01:05:30.008
And just knowing that, yeah, business owners, when you're only ever been an employee, you kind of feel like they're capitalist pigs and they're just ripping you off.
1704
01:05:30.368 --> 01:05:30.989
And I get it.
1705
01:05:31.009 --> 01:05:31.729
Cause I've been there.
1706
01:05:31.809 --> 01:05:32.049
Yeah.
1707
01:05:32.149 --> 01:05:35.952
But then the moment you become a business person, you're like, you don't fucking know.
1708
01:05:36.033 --> 01:05:37.113
No, I don't know.
1709
01:05:37.274 --> 01:05:38.975
The bottom line is heavy.
1710
01:05:39.155 --> 01:05:39.495
Yeah.
1711
01:05:39.875 --> 01:05:40.296
Yeah.
1712
01:05:40.756 --> 01:05:41.016
No.
1713
01:05:41.456 --> 01:05:45.399
I asked you last time, what do you think the sweet spot is?
1714
01:05:45.419 --> 01:05:53.744
Like if you could design a perfect real estate media business, employee size, volume size, quality, what do you think the sweet spot is?
1715
01:05:53.764 --> 01:05:54.885
I think it's one admin.
1716
01:05:55.285 --> 01:05:58.147
Although one admin is tough because they go on vacation.
1717
01:05:58.187 --> 01:05:59.708
It's all on whoever's next.
1718
01:05:59.748 --> 01:05:59.928
Right.
1719
01:06:00.188 --> 01:06:00.388
Yeah.
1720
01:06:00.428 --> 01:06:03.210
So I'd say two admins just from that standpoint.
1721
01:06:03.890 --> 01:06:04.230
And then,
1722
01:06:05.500 --> 01:06:06.480
four or five shooters.
1723
01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:13.602
Like if you could, and not a huge area, like just focus on this one area and dominate.
1724
01:06:13.622 --> 01:06:15.042
Like kind of like I was saying about Guelph.
1725
01:06:15.663 --> 01:06:18.363
Like when I was dominating Guelph, it was nice.
1726
01:06:19.343 --> 01:06:19.904
It wasn't far.
1727
01:06:19.924 --> 01:06:21.084
It was all right there.
1728
01:06:21.104 --> 01:06:22.284
A couple of mins.
1729
01:06:23.384 --> 01:06:24.425
Everyone's happy.
1730
01:06:25.005 --> 01:06:29.746
No one's traveling an hour or two to get somewhere back and complaining about how much kilometers.
1731
01:06:30.406 --> 01:06:30.986
It's all right there.
1732
01:06:31.306 --> 01:06:32.987
And it's like way less headaches.
1733
01:06:33.207 --> 01:06:33.647
Yeah.
1734
01:06:33.888 --> 01:06:35.289
But it's not sustainable.
1735
01:06:35.569 --> 01:06:38.971
It's like, there's always this like, well, somebody else comes in and takes some of the business.
1736
01:06:38.991 --> 01:06:42.853
Well, how do you, then you have to go somewhere else to get, to offset that business.
1737
01:06:43.354 --> 01:06:44.534
Like, it's just, I don't know.
1738
01:06:44.614 --> 01:06:44.995
It's just...
1739
01:06:46.716 --> 01:06:46.896
Yeah.
1740
01:06:47.116 --> 01:06:49.878
Like in a, in a dream world, I would say that's, that's it.
1741
01:06:49.898 --> 01:06:57.181
So owner, operator, owner, not operator, owner, two admins, two admins, five shooters, five shooters, one area that's big enough to support that.
1742
01:06:57.201 --> 01:06:58.022
Yeah.
1743
01:06:58.042 --> 01:07:00.303
Which is not Guelph, but it would be like, I don't know.
1744
01:07:00.483 --> 01:07:03.504
And all post-production outsourced or in-house?
1745
01:07:03.524 --> 01:07:03.865
For sure.
1746
01:07:03.885 --> 01:07:04.165
100%.
1747
01:07:04.205 --> 01:07:04.665
Yeah.
1748
01:07:04.765 --> 01:07:05.225
Outsourced.
1749
01:07:05.265 --> 01:07:06.746
I think that's the greatest thing ever.
1750
01:07:07.146 --> 01:07:08.447
And who's doing sales?
1751
01:07:10.503 --> 01:07:17.950
So I think, you know what, actually what's really cool about us as like when we go to PMRE and all this stuff is that we're all acting like businesses now.
1752
01:07:18.751 --> 01:07:19.512
We have a sales team.
1753
01:07:19.852 --> 01:07:21.153
We have a customer service team.
1754
01:07:21.434 --> 01:07:22.234
We have shooters.
1755
01:07:22.375 --> 01:07:23.375
We have editors.
1756
01:07:23.916 --> 01:07:28.640
I love how we all have, like when I work for big corporations, there was different departments.
1757
01:07:28.780 --> 01:07:29.001
Yeah.
1758
01:07:29.321 --> 01:07:29.781
And I was like.
1759
01:07:30.502 --> 01:07:33.886
There's a good reason those businesses were like that or been that way for years.
1760
01:07:34.387 --> 01:07:46.761
And I feel like whenever I meet people that are like, we're all acting as bigger businesses now, because maybe we've got enough skin in the game and understanding of a business that we know how to operate it.
1761
01:07:47.702 --> 01:07:49.003
We're all going in that direction.
1762
01:07:49.304 --> 01:07:50.826
We have different departments doing different things.
1763
01:07:50.866 --> 01:07:51.066
Yep.
1764
01:07:51.975 --> 01:07:52.615
And I love that.
1765
01:07:52.735 --> 01:07:56.196
I think that's amazing to see all of us have that growth.
1766
01:07:56.557 --> 01:07:56.777
Yeah.
1767
01:07:56.877 --> 01:07:59.197
And just, you know, like, I really like that.
1768
01:07:59.377 --> 01:07:59.618
Yeah.
1769
01:07:59.738 --> 01:08:01.258
I'm very department-based, too.
1770
01:08:01.318 --> 01:08:04.559
So it's like, for example, this morning I had this random real estate agent.
1771
01:08:04.719 --> 01:08:07.440
He's kind of new, but I've told him a hundred times.
1772
01:08:08.160 --> 01:08:11.041
He's like, oh, you know, I have this person coming in at this time.
1773
01:08:11.061 --> 01:08:12.702
I don't even have his number saved.
1774
01:08:14.042 --> 01:08:14.903
He's like, let them know.
1775
01:08:14.923 --> 01:08:16.203
And I'm like, okay.
1776
01:08:17.671 --> 01:08:20.452
I posted in the full-time group because I actually don't know who's going to the listing.
1777
01:08:20.972 --> 01:08:24.754
But then he messaged me after and he's like, hey, for the video, I need this.
1778
01:08:24.774 --> 01:08:25.394
And I was like, okay.
1779
01:08:25.934 --> 01:08:27.035
I had the video department.
1780
01:08:27.175 --> 01:08:30.076
Say, hey, Mark, just so you know, video department handles this.
1781
01:08:30.156 --> 01:08:31.156
Please email this person.
1782
01:08:31.836 --> 01:08:33.457
If you have bookings, email this.
1783
01:08:33.777 --> 01:08:35.018
Questions, client care.
1784
01:08:35.458 --> 01:08:37.959
Everything is systemized now.
1785
01:08:38.499 --> 01:08:41.120
So if you're coming to me for something, it better be fucking a fire.
1786
01:08:41.740 --> 01:08:44.041
But my question is- I'm surprised you still take those calls.
1787
01:08:44.381 --> 01:08:48.766
Well, I mean, I'm like, he's texting me for some, I'm like, how did you even get my, my number's not on Google.
1788
01:08:48.986 --> 01:08:50.087
I'm like, how did you get it?
1789
01:08:50.107 --> 01:08:50.768
How did that guy?
1790
01:08:50.788 --> 01:08:51.749
Yeah.
1791
01:08:51.789 --> 01:08:53.531
I'll give it to him.
1792
01:08:53.591 --> 01:08:55.713
This is a guy you don't want.
1793
01:08:55.973 --> 01:08:56.334
But yeah.
1794
01:08:56.354 --> 01:08:58.356
So like, what is, what does Phil do?
1795
01:08:58.376 --> 01:09:00.178
Like, what is your day to day look like?
1796
01:09:00.238 --> 01:09:00.899
It's not that.
1797
01:09:01.239 --> 01:09:01.499
Yeah.
1798
01:09:01.559 --> 01:09:01.939
I don't.
1799
01:09:02.039 --> 01:09:10.643
Like, I took a... Today, I made a call to somebody from U of T who wanted something pretty specific about just certain areas.
1800
01:09:10.663 --> 01:09:17.345
And I literally took the angle, and they weren't sure if they wanted iGuide or Matterport or Giraffe 360.
1801
01:09:17.365 --> 01:09:17.885
That's a play.
1802
01:09:17.905 --> 01:09:19.106
So you actually offer all three?
1803
01:09:19.126 --> 01:09:20.206
360?
1804
01:09:20.306 --> 01:09:20.526
No.
1805
01:09:20.706 --> 01:09:21.027
Okay.
1806
01:09:21.067 --> 01:09:21.227
No.
1807
01:09:21.247 --> 01:09:23.007
We do Matterport and iGuide.
1808
01:09:23.127 --> 01:09:23.608
Okay.
1809
01:09:23.748 --> 01:09:24.988
But anyways, he was just asking.
1810
01:09:25.108 --> 01:09:27.829
He's like, Gaussian splat.
1811
01:09:27.869 --> 01:09:29.430
Like, he was just talking all kinds of different things.
1812
01:09:29.450 --> 01:09:29.690
Mm-hmm.
1813
01:09:30.683 --> 01:09:32.325
And so he was looking for advice.
1814
01:09:32.445 --> 01:09:34.227
And he's literally calling me for advice.
1815
01:09:34.347 --> 01:09:35.929
And I think I give him great advice.
1816
01:09:36.530 --> 01:09:38.592
And I think he was like, oh, I'm calling you.
1817
01:09:38.712 --> 01:09:40.114
I'm going to talk to my department tomorrow.
1818
01:09:40.134 --> 01:09:40.935
We have a big meeting.
1819
01:09:41.475 --> 01:09:43.157
And I'll call you back if we're moving forward.
1820
01:09:43.878 --> 01:09:45.760
But I was like, if he doesn't call back, he doesn't call back.
1821
01:09:45.780 --> 01:09:48.603
That's OK. My team didn't have...
1822
01:09:49.164 --> 01:09:54.587
I guess the way of speaking about it or the knowledge to talk about the differences, the confidence, the confidence.
1823
01:09:54.627 --> 01:10:02.252
And, but in differences and no, the knowledge, like we gain knowledge, but PMRE, we gain knowledge by seeing everybody's stuff and going on there.
1824
01:10:02.272 --> 01:10:18.762
Like some of these platforms, I am blown away that people are actually using them because from an end user perspective, we were talking like my parents, 78 years old or whatever, trying to get through and understand the floor plan of this place and going, they would just give up.
1825
01:10:19.062 --> 01:10:20.024
They would.
1826
01:10:20.605 --> 01:10:23.169
So I've always put myself in the user perspective.
1827
01:10:23.189 --> 01:10:24.852
And I go, I said to this guy, I go, listen, listen,
1828
01:10:25.703 --> 01:10:27.984
Yeah, you can do Gaussian splat, whatever.
1829
01:10:28.104 --> 01:10:33.286
And literally, I was on battery power on my laptop.
1830
01:10:33.306 --> 01:10:34.266
It sucked it dry.
1831
01:10:34.506 --> 01:10:41.009
Like in a matter of like half an hour of me kind of going around, like this is very heavily graphic demanding.
1832
01:10:41.129 --> 01:10:43.470
Okay, so it may not load up right.
1833
01:10:43.510 --> 01:10:44.990
Like if I'm here, it's not loading.
1834
01:10:45.210 --> 01:10:46.751
Like there's no way it's loading, right?
1835
01:10:47.211 --> 01:10:51.473
So again, you got to put yourself in the shoes of who's watching this, who's looking at this.
1836
01:10:52.210 --> 01:10:53.212
Anyways, I give them good advice.
1837
01:10:53.352 --> 01:11:00.327
My point was, is that I give them good advice and that sometimes I take those calls on because I feel like I'm the best person for them to talk to.
1838
01:11:00.387 --> 01:11:02.291
I don't look at them like, well, I'm not talking to this person.
1839
01:11:03.120 --> 01:11:07.263
So my day-to-day, there's still a lot of calls like, what do we do here?
1840
01:11:07.523 --> 01:11:07.943
What happened?
1841
01:11:08.063 --> 01:11:08.604
This happened?
1842
01:11:08.624 --> 01:11:09.844
And what do you suggest?
1843
01:11:10.085 --> 01:11:12.086
And it's back to my admin team.
1844
01:11:12.206 --> 01:11:14.607
They go and handle it, but they're asking me for advice.
1845
01:11:14.788 --> 01:11:19.370
So that's a lot of my day is just putting out fires, I guess you could say that way.
1846
01:11:19.791 --> 01:11:20.691
They're not huge fires.
1847
01:11:20.711 --> 01:11:25.534
They're just, you know, but there are more just like they need someone's voice.
1848
01:11:25.554 --> 01:11:27.716
They need someone's like stamp of approval.
1849
01:11:27.856 --> 01:11:30.818
Do you get frustrated if they could have figured out themselves?
1850
01:11:30.838 --> 01:11:31.158
Yes.
1851
01:11:31.218 --> 01:11:38.201
There's a lot of that sometimes I've pushed back and I've said, well, what did we do last time?
1852
01:11:38.521 --> 01:11:40.442
Or, you know, stuff like that.
1853
01:11:40.542 --> 01:11:43.624
And I choose my moments when I do that.
1854
01:11:43.824 --> 01:11:49.386
I don't always do that because I feel like, okay, like maybe they're just touching base anyways or something like that.
1855
01:11:49.406 --> 01:11:49.606
Right.
1856
01:11:49.686 --> 01:11:55.009
But yeah, there's definitely frustrating moments when you're like, come on.
1857
01:11:55.417 --> 01:11:56.158
Yeah.
1858
01:11:56.458 --> 01:11:59.061
I always say, like, come to me with a solution, not the problem.
1859
01:11:59.101 --> 01:11:59.362
Exactly.
1860
01:11:59.422 --> 01:12:02.025
And if you're coming to me with a problem, it's because there's no solution yet.
1861
01:12:02.145 --> 01:12:03.066
Yeah.
1862
01:12:03.366 --> 01:12:05.089
So that's the way I kind of offer myself.
1863
01:12:05.169 --> 01:12:05.769
Oh, my God.
1864
01:12:05.809 --> 01:12:06.570
It drives me nuts, though.
1865
01:12:06.590 --> 01:12:06.710
Yeah.
1866
01:12:06.931 --> 01:12:08.933
Because, you know, it happens weekly.
1867
01:12:08.993 --> 01:12:09.614
I'm like, oh, my God.
1868
01:12:09.754 --> 01:12:11.056
I can find the solution.
1869
01:12:11.416 --> 01:12:11.917
Two seconds.
1870
01:12:11.957 --> 01:12:12.157
Yeah.
1871
01:12:12.317 --> 01:12:13.599
And if I can do that, you can do that, too.
1872
01:12:13.979 --> 01:12:40.377
yep because it sounds so much like being a parent yeah we're both aries and this is the problem because i'm meant to bring this up yeah i know we're both aries and there's we're like that but people don't think that way they're like oh my god what do i do yeah and we're like come on you should know this by now right are you good with zodiac signs what's that are you good with zodiac signs uh am i good with them like yeah could you guess what i am oh yeah yeah yeah um
1873
01:12:40.703 --> 01:12:41.323
We need a cue.
1874
01:12:41.424 --> 01:12:42.985
What's your zodiac sign?
1875
01:12:43.065 --> 01:12:43.945
Yeah, yeah.
1876
01:12:44.746 --> 01:12:45.546
I like these games.
1877
01:12:46.067 --> 01:12:46.307
Yeah.
1878
01:12:47.888 --> 01:12:48.268
I have one.
1879
01:12:48.288 --> 01:12:49.609
I'm not sure if that's true or not.
1880
01:12:50.570 --> 01:12:54.372
You're either Libra or Gemini.
1881
01:12:54.392 --> 01:12:56.094
I was going to say Libra.
1882
01:12:56.254 --> 01:12:56.494
Yeah?
1883
01:12:56.594 --> 01:12:57.014
Really?
1884
01:12:57.274 --> 01:12:57.875
And what is that?
1885
01:12:57.895 --> 01:12:59.716
Because I don't actually know.
1886
01:12:59.736 --> 01:13:01.157
Like, I know what I am, but I don't know.
1887
01:13:01.197 --> 01:13:03.138
What is the characteristics of a Libra?
1888
01:13:03.238 --> 01:13:03.378
Oh.
1889
01:13:04.425 --> 01:13:04.925
A balance.
1890
01:13:05.085 --> 01:13:05.445
So like.
1891
01:13:05.485 --> 01:13:05.826
Balance.
1892
01:13:05.866 --> 01:13:05.966
Okay.
1893
01:13:05.986 --> 01:13:06.686
Nicole's a balance.
1894
01:13:06.726 --> 01:13:08.467
So she's always balancing me out.
1895
01:13:08.487 --> 01:13:09.987
And it's funny when she's not around.
1896
01:13:10.427 --> 01:13:10.688
Yeah.
1897
01:13:10.768 --> 01:13:12.968
She'll listen and be like, I told you, I should be around more.
1898
01:13:13.329 --> 01:13:13.669
Yeah.
1899
01:13:13.729 --> 01:13:14.009
No, no.
1900
01:13:14.029 --> 01:13:17.250
So it's like, it's more like when she's not around, I'm like, I'm just more edgy.
1901
01:13:17.550 --> 01:13:17.830
Yeah.
1902
01:13:17.850 --> 01:13:18.070
You know?
1903
01:13:18.090 --> 01:13:19.091
But she calms me down.
1904
01:13:19.151 --> 01:13:19.451
Yeah.
1905
01:13:19.471 --> 01:13:20.331
Like it's funny that way.
1906
01:13:20.511 --> 01:13:20.791
Mm-hmm.
1907
01:13:21.132 --> 01:13:21.832
I'm a Taurus.
1908
01:13:22.492 --> 01:13:23.493
Oh, you are a Taurus.
1909
01:13:23.853 --> 01:13:24.133
Yeah.
1910
01:13:24.373 --> 01:13:24.653
Me.
1911
01:13:25.033 --> 01:13:25.213
Yeah.
1912
01:13:25.333 --> 01:13:25.894
My daughter.
1913
01:13:25.934 --> 01:13:27.034
Two of my daughters are Tauruses.
1914
01:13:27.134 --> 01:13:28.054
You guys are tough to deal with.
1915
01:13:28.074 --> 01:13:29.275
Tauruses are great though.
1916
01:13:29.375 --> 01:13:29.735
What's your.
1917
01:13:29.895 --> 01:13:30.375
But you're like.
1918
01:13:32.396 --> 01:13:35.457
I thought Tauruses were like, I mean, why they like the bull?
1919
01:13:35.477 --> 01:13:38.478
Like they get really, part of me, I don't know.
1920
01:13:38.819 --> 01:13:45.721
I don't know all this stuff, but I think like in 1982, like the moon rising Taurus must've been like, there was like a super, like, I don't know.
1921
01:13:45.741 --> 01:13:47.582
This is like a well-fucked Taurus bull.
1922
01:13:47.622 --> 01:13:48.782
Cause he doesn't give a shit.
1923
01:13:49.083 --> 01:13:50.123
Like he just doesn't care.
1924
01:13:50.503 --> 01:13:53.204
And that's kind of how I feel like I, what makes me aggressive?
1925
01:13:55.465 --> 01:13:57.566
The only thing I really hate is like,
1926
01:13:59.836 --> 01:14:02.638
like bad manners or people who are being shitty.
1927
01:14:02.658 --> 01:14:04.138
And I know there's no reason for it.
1928
01:14:04.198 --> 01:14:10.482
I hate it when people like, want to make me not like you treat a waiter badly.
1929
01:14:10.602 --> 01:14:11.322
Yes.
1930
01:14:11.602 --> 01:14:11.783
Yeah.
1931
01:14:11.803 --> 01:14:14.384
That type of stuff that gets me really fired up.
1932
01:14:14.404 --> 01:14:18.546
We're all like, but other than that, most things I'm always like compassion.
1933
01:14:18.566 --> 01:14:24.149
Like, yeah, this person's probably like, you know, I always like justified in my head, but I don't get too, too.
1934
01:14:24.269 --> 01:14:26.911
Like, I'm trying to think what makes me aggressive, but not, not a ton.
1935
01:14:26.951 --> 01:14:27.051
Yeah.
1936
01:14:27.775 --> 01:14:32.938
But that type of stuff, injustices, like bad manners, and just treating people like shit, that bugs me.
1937
01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:37.601
I'm similar to you in that.
1938
01:14:37.681 --> 01:14:40.923
I just hate when people just take advantage of a system.
1939
01:14:41.323 --> 01:14:43.304
It drives me absolutely bonkers.
1940
01:14:43.965 --> 01:14:45.505
And I revolt against it.
1941
01:14:45.585 --> 01:14:46.386
I'm just like, nope.
1942
01:14:46.726 --> 01:14:52.329
And I've fired people, clients, because of how they're just trying to get away with something.
1943
01:14:52.349 --> 01:14:53.910
And I'm like, you can see right through that.
1944
01:14:53.950 --> 01:14:54.491
Like, fuck off.
1945
01:14:55.335 --> 01:14:55.615
Yeah.
1946
01:14:55.675 --> 01:14:56.035
Come on.
1947
01:14:56.336 --> 01:14:56.576
Yeah.
1948
01:14:56.636 --> 01:15:00.918
And my family, like my wife and my daughters, they're always like, I let everything go.
1949
01:15:01.258 --> 01:15:05.561
But sometimes I fucking dig in and they're like, why are you making such a big deal about this?
1950
01:15:05.981 --> 01:15:07.142
And I can't let it go.
1951
01:15:07.342 --> 01:15:08.723
And that must be the bull side.
1952
01:15:08.763 --> 01:15:11.124
Cause I'm like, no, this, you know what it is?
1953
01:15:11.204 --> 01:15:13.866
Actually, I like, I see everything as patterns.
1954
01:15:14.966 --> 01:15:20.648
And when I notice there's a bad pattern, I want to fucking kill it immediately because I know that's just going to keep going.
1955
01:15:20.668 --> 01:15:25.450
So we have to deal with it now so that tomorrow we're like, let's never deal with it again.
1956
01:15:25.490 --> 01:15:27.231
I'm not going to like turn a blind eye to it.
1957
01:15:27.251 --> 01:15:28.151
Let's deal with it now.
1958
01:15:28.632 --> 01:15:30.292
That's how you're a good business owner.
1959
01:15:30.492 --> 01:15:31.093
But people, yeah.
1960
01:15:31.113 --> 01:15:31.953
Because you get to put up fires.
1961
01:15:32.253 --> 01:15:36.594
Yeah, but then people are like, why are you so bent out of shape?
1962
01:15:36.654 --> 01:15:37.955
And I'm like, but don't you see?
1963
01:15:38.255 --> 01:15:39.915
We're going to do this forever.
1964
01:15:40.095 --> 01:15:42.096
So let's treat it like a big deal.
1965
01:15:42.216 --> 01:15:43.556
I'm so OCD about stuff.
1966
01:15:43.576 --> 01:15:45.497
My crew hates it sometimes.
1967
01:15:45.517 --> 01:15:47.958
When we launch something new, I'm like, nope.
1968
01:15:47.998 --> 01:15:52.119
For me, it was like, we launched with AC4 Hub, which, shout out to them, they're great.
1969
01:15:53.639 --> 01:15:57.020
Sponsor us.
1970
01:15:57.361 --> 01:15:57.961
And they're like...
1971
01:16:00.445 --> 01:16:05.048
I want, like, I was like, I want every profile created with a picture on it.
1972
01:16:05.348 --> 01:16:05.708
Yeah.
1973
01:16:05.948 --> 01:16:07.269
I was like, it needs a phone number.
1974
01:16:07.589 --> 01:16:08.410
It needs a brokerage.
1975
01:16:08.710 --> 01:16:12.172
It needs everything done and a proper photo done.
1976
01:16:12.772 --> 01:16:14.293
I said, we do this once, it's over.
1977
01:16:14.353 --> 01:16:15.874
It's like, it gets re- Yes.
1978
01:16:16.454 --> 01:16:22.458
But I cannot let one of these sites go out or a marketing kit go out with the potential of them using it, which...
1979
01:16:22.858 --> 01:16:26.460
You know, there's not that many of them using it, but if they are potentially using it, well, guess what?
1980
01:16:26.500 --> 01:16:32.202
If they see their own photo on it, they're more likely going to use it than this like blank thing where they don't even have their photo on.
1981
01:16:32.442 --> 01:16:32.622
Yeah.
1982
01:16:33.063 --> 01:16:35.264
So I'm so OCD about certain things.
1983
01:16:35.324 --> 01:16:37.124
And sometimes I think like maybe I'm an idiot.
1984
01:16:37.164 --> 01:16:39.505
Like maybe I'm like too OCD about certain things.
1985
01:16:39.565 --> 01:16:42.487
But I'm like presentation for me is key.
1986
01:16:42.567 --> 01:16:43.047
Mm hmm.
1987
01:16:43.087 --> 01:16:45.048
Like it needs to look right.
1988
01:16:45.068 --> 01:16:45.588
Mm hmm.
1989
01:16:45.688 --> 01:16:47.209
And people just, you know what I mean?
1990
01:16:47.229 --> 01:16:48.950
And I'm like, it needs to be there.
1991
01:16:48.970 --> 01:16:49.150
And it.
1992
01:16:49.890 --> 01:16:53.753
And yeah, anyways, I think some of my crew are like, this guy is a bit much.
1993
01:16:53.934 --> 01:16:55.255
They have different zodiac signs, man.
1994
01:16:55.275 --> 01:16:55.855
That's what it is.
1995
01:16:56.055 --> 01:16:56.416
What's that?
1996
01:16:56.476 --> 01:16:57.557
They have different zodiac signs.
1997
01:16:57.577 --> 01:16:57.817
Yes.
1998
01:16:57.877 --> 01:16:58.537
Yeah.
1999
01:16:58.838 --> 01:16:59.458
I'm the same way.
2000
01:16:59.999 --> 01:17:01.580
But I learned to not care about him.
2001
01:17:01.720 --> 01:17:04.162
Like, I'm just like, I am who I am and that's how it's going to be.
2002
01:17:04.182 --> 01:17:06.524
And I, you know, there's nothing wrong with what I'm asking.
2003
01:17:06.804 --> 01:17:07.024
Right.
2004
01:17:07.044 --> 01:17:07.765
This is just me.
2005
01:17:07.785 --> 01:17:08.966
It's your business also.
2006
01:17:09.006 --> 01:17:11.008
And I just want to, you know, most people are just.
2007
01:17:11.918 --> 01:17:18.202
You know how many people I see, like, and not to pick on the single shooters again, but like who they just let things go out and it looks so bad.
2008
01:17:19.082 --> 01:17:19.543
So bad.
2009
01:17:19.703 --> 01:17:22.024
And the iGuide's not even embedded.
2010
01:17:22.084 --> 01:17:24.846
Like, it's just, you know, and I'm huge on automation.
2011
01:17:25.106 --> 01:17:25.826
Oh, my God.
2012
01:17:27.127 --> 01:17:27.647
Automation.
2013
01:17:27.727 --> 01:17:28.368
Automate everything.
2014
01:17:28.868 --> 01:17:29.649
Because you can't screw it up.
2015
01:17:30.029 --> 01:17:30.229
Yeah.
2016
01:17:33.291 --> 01:17:33.631
Rappin'?
2017
01:17:34.452 --> 01:17:34.792
I don't know.
2018
01:17:34.952 --> 01:17:38.854
I mean, there's other stuff I could talk about, but also, should we just go?
2019
01:17:38.994 --> 01:17:39.714
Like, it's sunny.
2020
01:17:39.934 --> 01:17:41.555
We could go for a surf.
2021
01:17:41.595 --> 01:17:42.755
Is that a crazy thing to do?
2022
01:17:42.795 --> 01:17:43.696
No, I don't think so.
2023
01:17:44.136 --> 01:17:44.496
Okay.
2024
01:17:44.776 --> 01:17:46.897
I might surf my underwear by this boogie.
2025
01:17:47.357 --> 01:17:48.057
We touch underwear.
2026
01:17:48.218 --> 01:17:48.898
Is that what we said?
2027
01:17:48.918 --> 01:17:49.538
Touching underwear?
2028
01:17:49.738 --> 01:17:50.558
Touching underwear.
2029
01:17:50.578 --> 01:17:50.919
Yeah, yeah.
2030
01:17:51.359 --> 01:17:56.401
Well, let's finish with one last question each, like a yes or no, something kind of fun.
2031
01:17:56.421 --> 01:17:57.881
Phil.
2032
01:18:01.135 --> 01:18:01.355
Yes.
2033
01:18:01.936 --> 01:18:14.544
If you had to do something completely different tomorrow, like Alex crushed your business because she's so ruthless and you had to start over.
2034
01:18:14.564 --> 01:18:16.726
And for some reason you were never going to get to do this again.
2035
01:18:16.846 --> 01:18:21.829
What would you do now with your, your career, all your experience, all your knowledge and your passion?
2036
01:18:21.869 --> 01:18:22.730
Like, what would you be into?
2037
01:18:23.548 --> 01:18:26.272
I love to help businesses fix their issues.
2038
01:18:26.452 --> 01:18:34.324
There's actually so many businesses at PMRE or even at your event that I was like, I remember talking to this one guy and I was like,
2039
01:18:35.560 --> 01:18:37.781
Why do you care so much about, like I was getting mad.
2040
01:18:38.001 --> 01:18:39.321
I was like, stop.
2041
01:18:39.821 --> 01:18:41.882
Like I said, this is what you're going to do from now on.
2042
01:18:41.942 --> 01:18:42.742
Just shoot it out.
2043
01:18:42.942 --> 01:18:47.684
And you know, he was talking about how he had to rename every PDF before sending it out.
2044
01:18:48.684 --> 01:18:51.865
I go, he's like, my clients need this.
2045
01:18:51.965 --> 01:18:53.305
And I'm like, no, they don't.
2046
01:18:53.685 --> 01:18:56.006
They just want you to do it because they're too lazy to do it.
2047
01:18:56.286 --> 01:18:58.807
If you say I'm not doing it anymore, they're not going to drop you.
2048
01:18:59.027 --> 01:18:59.287
Yeah.
2049
01:18:59.627 --> 01:19:02.108
They're just, you're doing something that you don't need to do.
2050
01:19:02.348 --> 01:19:04.588
I'm like, how long are you delaying delivery because of it?
2051
01:19:05.048 --> 01:19:05.888
Hours sometimes.
2052
01:19:06.368 --> 01:19:06.729
Hours.
2053
01:19:07.149 --> 01:19:11.990
I said, you don't think they're more upset that you haven't delivered yet than the stupid naming of the PDF?
2054
01:19:12.210 --> 01:19:12.650
I'm like, no.
2055
01:19:13.290 --> 01:19:14.530
Dude, I said, you got something.
2056
01:19:14.750 --> 01:19:15.510
You got to fix this.
2057
01:19:15.670 --> 01:19:16.311
And he did.
2058
01:19:17.331 --> 01:19:18.751
I think he was saying he was going to do it.
2059
01:19:19.231 --> 01:19:21.792
But that's what I would, I'm passionate about businesses.
2060
01:19:21.832 --> 01:19:25.393
Like even talking to my partner about her business and what she does.
2061
01:19:25.473 --> 01:19:26.653
And I'm like, I'm like, what?
2062
01:19:26.673 --> 01:19:26.913
What?
2063
01:19:27.773 --> 01:19:31.614
I'm always like interested, you know, like, oh, you guys should do this and fix that and do this.
2064
01:19:31.674 --> 01:19:36.215
And, you know, it's like, I think that's where I'm really passionate about.
2065
01:19:36.975 --> 01:19:40.436
I guess I've learned so much along the way that I have so much to give back, you know.
2066
01:19:40.896 --> 01:19:42.177
Can I turn that into a job?
2067
01:19:42.197 --> 01:19:42.677
I don't know.
2068
01:19:42.937 --> 01:19:44.237
But that's maybe what I mean.
2069
01:19:44.277 --> 01:19:45.557
Eli Jones should have did.
2070
01:19:45.797 --> 01:19:46.218
Yeah, sure.
2071
01:19:46.318 --> 01:19:46.518
Yeah.
2072
01:19:46.618 --> 01:19:46.798
Yeah.
2073
01:19:48.058 --> 01:19:48.238
Yeah.
2074
01:19:48.645 --> 01:19:49.185
I don't have any.
2075
01:19:49.506 --> 01:19:50.866
I've asked so many questions, man.
2076
01:19:51.046 --> 01:19:51.266
Yeah.
2077
01:19:51.427 --> 01:19:51.747
Okay.
2078
01:19:52.227 --> 01:19:53.128
Well, thanks so much, Phil.
2079
01:19:53.148 --> 01:19:53.548
We'll do it again.
2080
01:19:53.568 --> 01:19:54.168
Thanks for having me.
2081
01:19:54.188 --> 01:19:54.648
This is awesome.
2082
01:19:54.788 --> 01:19:57.490
And if Alex is surfing in her underwear, we'll put it here.
2083
01:19:57.510 --> 01:19:59.411
We'll make it part of the trailer.
2084
01:19:59.431 --> 01:19:59.631
Yeah.
2085
01:19:59.851 --> 01:20:00.171
All right.
2086
01:20:00.452 --> 01:20:00.552
Yeah.
2087
01:20:00.592 --> 01:20:01.252
All right, man.
2088
01:20:01.452 --> 01:20:01.792
Thank you.
2089
01:20:02.253 --> 01:20:02.893
Good seeing you guys.
2090
01:20:02.953 --> 01:20:03.113
Yeehaw.
2091
01:20:03.133 --> 01:20:03.653
First guest.
2092
01:20:03.673 --> 01:20:04.534
Thanks for coming on this way.
2093
01:20:04.554 --> 01:20:04.934
First guest.
2094
01:20:07.215 --> 01:20:07.916
He's like a pro.
2095
01:20:07.956 --> 01:20:08.136
What?
2096
01:20:08.176 --> 01:20:09.416
Yeah, I think so.
2097
01:20:11.257 --> 01:20:11.978
Thank you.
2098
01:20:14.677 --> 01:20:19.081
I'm going to ask you, no, when I'm doing the right.
2099
01:20:19.161 --> 01:20:21.043
I'm going to do it.
2100
01:20:21.484 --> 01:20:25.948
I'm going to ask you, no, when I'm doing the right.
2101
01:20:26.529 --> 01:20:28.891
I'm going to ask you, no, when I'm doing the right.
2102
01:20:28.971 --> 01:20:32.795
I'm going to ask you, no, when I'm doing the right.