WEBVTT
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Welcome to Midlife Interrupted and Unfiltered.
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I'm Melissa, coach, counselor, and professional truthbringer.
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And I'm Ann, trial lawyer, accountability partner, and certified Pilates instructor.
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Yes, really.
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We're two East Coast women who met at kindergarten drop-off.
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And 15 years later decided that midlife needed a megaphone and not a mute button.
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So we're here to interrupt the negative narratives.
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And share the unfiltered truth about reinvention, period menopause, and everything in between.
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Just real talk.
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Let's go.
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Okay, today's conversation feels really important because we're talking about spirituality.
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And this is not in a way that feels overly airy, overly vague, or disconnected from real life.
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Yeah, what we're talking about is spirituality without the woo-woo.
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Like, what does it actually look like when it's grounded and useful, honest, and part of everyday life?
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And we are so excited to have Daniel Olexa here with us because he brings such a thoughtful perspective on reinvention, inner life, meaning, and growth.
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And let me add, he is our first male guest on our podcast.
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So we are super duper excited.
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And honestly, to Mel's point, we wanted a male voice in this conversation because men and women are often socialized so differently around emotion, spirituality, and self-awareness.
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So, Daniel, we're glad you're here.
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This is awesome to be here.
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So we're gonna dig into it and we're gonna talk a little bit with Daniel about what spirituality actually means to him.
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So we're gonna go to that big question and just jump right in.
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When you hear the word spirituality, Daniel, what does that actually mean to you?
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And let's say, without the, like Ann said, woo-woo.
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To me, it means one not tied to any specific religious doctrine.
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For me, others might, that's fine.
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That's their thing.
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For me, it's about a connection to some bigger meaning.
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And it doesn't have to be the woo-woo of the universe or to source.
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Everybody's connection to that is unique and it's uniquely theirs when they get out of just feeling like they have to do everything.
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That we can come to a place where when we're calm and peaceful, that is spirituality to me.
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And when do you think that that definition that you just shared got real for you?
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That's an interesting question.
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I feel as it's been evolving for a number of years, and it really maybe locked in the past five to seven as a solid realization that this is beyond some doctrine or organization that wants me to think in their way and made it very personal for me that there's something much bigger here.
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I think when I lived in Kansas City and this is 13 years ago, going through the throes of what does life mean for me?
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I was miserable.
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I was in a job that I had maxed out my potential there.
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I was burned out, was going through the end throes of a marriage bordering on divorce, which it eventually set to.
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And I could sit there and tell you every damn thing that was wrong with life.
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But there was something deeper that kept me going that said, you know, hey, kid, it doesn't have to be this way.
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That to me is the spirituality, that voice right there, that sense.
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And if so, do you recall where or what that moment was?
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Oh, yeah.
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I was sitting in my office and I've been in this space for about two weeks.
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I was reading two different books, one Black Hole Focus by Isaiah Hankel, and the other was Blue Zones about the five areas in the world where people live to be over 100 and they're super healthy, and reading them at the same time.
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And within two days, both mentioned the concept of Ika Guy from Okinawa, the idea of waking up, the thing that gets you out of bed in the morning.
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And I started asking myself, why am I going to this company?
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Why am I going here when I'm done with them?
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They are evidently done with me.
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Why am I going there?
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And the surface answer is always because you have a mortgage, you moron.
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Like, okay, fine.
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And like two weeks of waking up every day, like, why?
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Why am I going there?
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And a client called one day and they said, So we just had this hot project dropped in our lap.
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We kind of know what we want.
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It's a really tight turn.
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We don't know how to get there.
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We know you will.
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Can you come over it too?
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Like, yeah, sure.
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See it too.
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Hang up the phone.
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And literally, this wave of energy just passes through me.
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And I feel like super solid in my core, like peaceful, calm, stable like a tree.
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And there's the cartoon light bulb going off over my head saying, I love problem solving.
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I love the negotiation of it, the finding the bigger answers.
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And like in that moment, oh wow, it's 11-11 here on the East Coast as we're saying this.
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This is just way too good.
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Just that moment of awareness, like, okay, that's where my passion is.
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That's my purpose.
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That's my ikigai.
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What do I do with it?
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That's so interesting.
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You said earlier, use the iki guy, which I love that concept, and often use it with my own clients.
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But other than religious doctrine, what do you think people confuse spirituality with?
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Woo-woo.
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And it's funny, as I say this, I want to be very careful that I'm not parsing it down and saying things aren't that are, but there's so much confusion with the prop that the prop of a crystal is somehow spirituality.
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No, it's the belief you put into it that's the thing.
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And the prop of a tarot card, I read cards for a long time, that we can put it into this item, this material thing, but the spirituality is really about what we're infusing into it and what we're looking to gain from it.
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And I think that gets missed a lot.
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It's not that item.
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That I think it's feeling that connectivity and realizing what's around you that then gives you that calm and peaceful feeling because you're more aware of things, as opposed to just go, go, go.
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I have to go from this job to pick up this kid or do X, Y, and Z.
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So I think that what you're saying is that what it might look like on a day-to-day basis is based on what you're putting out there and then what you're recognizing in terms of the connectivity that gives you that sense of common peace.
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Yeah, I think on so many levels, and lots of people have said this over decades or centuries, that that sense of peacefulness.
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Probably the person who's wrote on it most recently that I resonate with is Mo Gaudet, who I think he was, maybe still is the chief business officer for Alphabet.
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He wrote a book in 2017 called Solve for Happy.
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And his whole idea is that happiness we are born in a default state of happiness, but we learn to be miserable.
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And his proof for it in the book is go to any war-torn country in the world and you'll see the adults looking very haggard and weary.
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But if you walk away from them, you'll find a group of kids who have found a makeshift ball and they're playing in a field because they haven't learned to be unhappy.
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And it like blew my mind when I read that.
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And then I think about if we come into like just a shift on even religious spiritual doctrine, the idea that depending on how you read it, the very first commandment in the Bible is thou shalt have no false gods before me.
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But if we align to the idea that we are this greater intelligence, whatever word you want to put on it, experiencing this life, that default state of happiness, that God is within us.
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But we start worshiping false gods every time we say, I'll be happy when the job comes through, the money comes through this, and we put the happiness outside of us, we put the presence and the connection to this higher meaning somewhere out there in something we have no damn control over.
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And that's actually the worshiping of the false God, not that you don't agree with my religion.
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That's all just manipulative.
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And to that point, Daniel, it's like too once you get to that stage, once you're in the mindset of this will make me whole, this will make me whole, that target keeps moving, then you get the job you want.
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And then you're like, well, now I want this next promotion.
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I feel like when you're in that mindset, there's no settling in terms of just being that calm, peaceful presence.
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You're always wanting what's next and moving that next signpost for yourself of wanting more and more and seeking that external validation.
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Yeah.
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And it's funny because it's how we show up in a room.
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You think about your energy precedes you into a room.
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And when you walk into the room, you get a sense of what's going on.
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And people know where you're at.
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We all pick up on people's emotional spaces.
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And if we're in the I'm not there yet, or I need to make it happen, it's like we become the quintessential used car salesperson of I've got to get it, and we repel everything versus it's already here, I already am, I am.
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And there's a peace and calm there that just those two words, I am, a validation of existence and understanding of my being that needs no validation back.
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That changes our energy and how people perceive us because we're in that.
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I don't need anything else.
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I I am everything that I need to be.
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The last episode we talked about spirituality and how we see it as a connection, connection with yourself.
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And that's exactly what I hear you saying is that I am and that connection and peace and presence with yourself.
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And did you and we've really talked about what spirituality looks like and feels like for you today?
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In an earlier version of you, was there even a spirituality?
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And if there was, how would you say that looked or felt?
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Or was there, because I know I could probably look back and be like, yeah, I went to church every week, but would I say that I had a connection to spirituality?
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No, not necessarily.
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Did I even acknowledge it?
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No, not necessarily.
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If you did have that earlier connection, what was it like?
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And how was it different?
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Yeah, growing up outside of Philly, we had a church literally across the street from our house.
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And we went on the two major holidays that everybody goes to.
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We went on Easter and we went on Christmas because that was what we did.
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Maybe occasionally showed up otherwise.
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And I never really quite got that.
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And I think there was a point in time where there you certainly get introduced to the religious idea of a certain way of being, and I moved beyond it, and then my pendulum swung all the way to the other side, where I probably bordered on a bit of agnostic atheism of there's nothing out there, and if there is, it does not care about my daily life.
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And then I started seeing other patterns in how belief structures showed up.
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And if there would be these little taps, like, you know, going to watch a rerun in the afternoon growing up in my teens of you know, Jeff stations that would show the same reruns at four o'clock in the afternoon after school, and thinking about I haven't seen that one episode in so long.
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And suddenly that's the one that happens to be aired that day.
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I'm like, wait, what's going on here?
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There is something bigger when I pay attention, as you were saying, to the patterns.
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And that's what tells me that we're both in this experience and we're also in some ways generating it.
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And I think that's an even bigger part that we are not just receptors of what's around us, we are also generators of our experience.
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And that becomes a bit of a very religious experience when I realize I have control over what happens.
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Yeah, and to your point, I feel like when you put that positive energy or the openness of an energy out into the universe, that's when you start getting those signs back, whether it's the 1111, the rerun of a show that you were waiting to see, of just being that open kind of vessel and putting that open receptive energy out there.
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Yeah.
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And it's all about coming to that moment of getting out of our heads because we've been trained to just think about the next thing and be in the next thing before the first thing's ever.
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And we just get in this churn.
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But when we slow down and silence this, we start to notice patterns, we start to notice broader connection that we are part of this entire thing.
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Yet we tell ourselves we're separate from it.
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And organizations tell us we're separate from it and they're the conduit to it, but we're never separate from it because we're we are part of this much vaster experience.
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Yeah, that connectivity.
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I think that if anybody feels isolated or alone, when you open your mind to that concept of the greater connectivity, you can't help but feel like part of something, at least in my opinion.
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And should we get into the male experience?
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Because I know we wanted to talk a little bit more about specifically how spirituality shows up, or how you see with your clients, Daniel, being a coach and working with the male population about this experience.
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So, Daniel, it seems, at least in our experience or in our interactions and just stereotypically within the United States, that a lot of men are conditioned and still are in these younger generations to be stoic or to mask their emotions or just shut down.
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And I know that it's clearly a stereotype, but I know it's also a reality in many situations.
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So, what are your thoughts on that?
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Where do you think maybe that first came from where men learn that from, which is seems to me so crazy in 2026 when you know we should have evolved much more?
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Yeah, there's the should have, and yes, we could probably be a lot farther.
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And I think it for me it comes a couple different levels.
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There's if we go way, way, way back, and men tended to be the hunter-gatherers before we ever had societies.
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So there's this go-do thing where women tended to be more the nurturers in in those societies before there ever was society, maybe more in more tribal event.
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And so that gets indoctrinated along the line that men then become the go-doers and women are the nurturers.
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And then that turns into just family structures that also become collective cultural structures.
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Like I was born in the mid-60s.
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My dad was born in 1929.
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His formative years were obviously during the depression, very much in his uh early to midlife during the onset of the John Wayne era of men don't cry, you be tough, and you just show up and kick ass.
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Indoctrinates us to that because that's his way of understanding what masculinity is.
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That's how masculinity was defined for so long.
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You had Fred Astairs out there as well, but Fred wasn't necessarily the bastion of masculinity.
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It was John Wayne going in with his pot belly and doing either the Western or the military movie.
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And so it's this whole men don't cry, stuff it down, be tough, and then we just avoid our emotions and turn into pot boilers.
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And what I learned in that was seeing this parent who had the shortest of short fuses ever in a short fuse factory be so quick to anger at the time not knowing it was because he learned to stuff everything down and had no more capacity.
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Take that on as my reception of that.
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Of I don't want to do that.
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I see how that affects me.
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I don't want to affect other people that way.
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And then I start telling myself I've got to learn to stuff it and not show it.
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Because when I do say something, I'm the one who gets slapped for it.
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So it turns into the story of I've just got to get better at stuffing because it's that tough rigidity of not expressing anything that's supposed to be masculine, when true masculinity is being able to be vulnerable and be appropriate with the expression of emotions throughout.
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And it's not this only one way.
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So thank you for sharing that about your dad.
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And a lot of times, if you think of behavioral psychology, you get rewarded and you do it again and again.
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In that case, for your dad or for anybody that might not feel like they're connected or have that spirituality, what do you think that reward, what's getting rewarded that actually keeps these people, men, women, whomever, disconnected?
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Survival.
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Comes down to basic survival.
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I'm gonna keep my safe myself safe by not expressing it because I learned early, if I do, I'll be threatened in some way.
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So we just keep stuffing it down and we live at the lowest level of Maslow or the lowest level of a chakra system, pure survival.
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And then we don't express ourselves, which is the speaking out.
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When do you think, Daniel, that you realized, and did you have to do some excavation and kind of inner child work, which to me is really interesting?
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I'm in a few different entrepreneurial groups, and the number of men who I might just be in a little pod with, they're like, oh, I just went to this inner child retreat in Costa Rica for a week or whatever.
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It seems like men right now in their 40s and 50s are getting the idea of a lot of their beliefs and a lot of issues come from without blaming parents, of just, hey, this is what the dynamic was like to your point.
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This is how I was almost trained or rewarded or knew how to survive.
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But do you feel like a lot of men in their midlife are realizing that something's got to change and doing that deeper inner work?
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Yeah.
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And it's where I was 13 years ago.
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There's something in there that's saying a life might suck, but there's a side of me that says, yes, it can be better.
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And I want to find out what that answer is because I can feel this internal churn that stress and might be creating ulcers and other things to let it go and find the answers.
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And that might have only happened as we think about the past 30 or 40 years of our society of making therapy more mainstream.
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And it's not you're going because you're crazy, it's because it's actually okay and healthy to talk to people about releasing all the stuff that's inside of you and having healthy conversations about it.
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As that has become more socially acceptable and socially aware, I think that opens it up for men now to be okay to express this and say, you know what, I haven't felt secure.
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I've been protecting myself for so long and just being able to look inside ourselves instead of constantly being a facade and a false mask of strength when we are feeling super weak inside.
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In turn, Daniel, I would think then the internal feeling is going to that sense of calm and peace when you go through that hard work of figuring out where those triggers are, where that stuff's coming from, and really process it so that you can become a calmer person who enjoys life way more than somebody who doesn't do that.
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Yeah.
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And my breakthrough is when I went through hypnotherapy training.
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And I was working with a hypnotherapist in Kansas City that kind of helped me the words I used earlier.
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I need to find my mojo because I am not feeling it.
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I'm feeling completely defeated.
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And that was like the first level of me awakening back to me and what I was capable of and refining my confidence.
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And how did that compare timeframe-wise to when you were talking about that two-week period, and then you got the phone call, and then you were like, okay, I think this is my purpose of solving problems.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.880
Was that within the same general time frame or was that?
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.480
Yeah, they were all within about a two to three month window.
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.559
It was again, it's almost spooky how these things happen once we open up to them.
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:27.119
And I joke that it was so many things in that time were just universal alignment of me opening up to the idea, and suddenly the idea presented itself.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:29.200
That's so cool.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:33.920
Building off of that, do you really think we're making progress?
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:43.359
Or do you just think we're getting better language and better PR, I guess, on this type of thing without really deep real change?
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:52.480
It's a both and because there will always be those who talk out of their head up their ass and use the words to say they're doing the work and they're not really doing the work.
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:56.480
And there will be those who double down and do the work to do the healing.
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:58.880
It's not an it's not an either or to me.
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:03.119
There's always going To be the people who can just talk the jargon and not do the work.
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.359
I think progressively we are evolving as a species.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:15.440
I definitely see that, particularly as women come more forward in leadership and the fractures in the male silo are happening.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:21.759
There's certainly men who feel threatened by that and multiple bad on them because, you know, okay, thanks for getting us where we are.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:25.119
Now it's time to go to the next thing, and that requires a different energy.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:35.359
Do you think, as a coach, are there barriers that you see men running into when they try to start exploring their inner feelings?
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:37.839
Is there a barrier that you often see?
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:55.279
The ones who are ready, and I think it's that first level of awareness of what's going on in them and being willing to look within themselves of who am I capable of at least exploring this and not just looking for the light switch quick answer.
00:22:55.279 --> 00:23:08.319
And in a weird, and I'm not sure whether this is a precursor or an after effect, what I see in the work across many years of doing this, and it was even said in my training back 14 years ago.
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:26.480
If I was to filter everything down that I've seen from clients over years and years, of hundreds of clients, thousands of clients, to one core idea of what is it underneath all of it, it's a sense of not being good enough or not deserving.
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.559
So this lack of worthiness.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:37.440
And does that show up as a belief that I hold myself back from ever exploring because I'm not good enough to even change or make a difference?
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:45.119
Or does it show up as the idea that then takes us forward into that's the thing that I need to heal within myself?
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:47.599
That's really powerful.
00:23:47.599 --> 00:24:02.000
And it takes a lot of courage, I think, for somebody to then say, okay, what's holding me back is that I don't think I'm worthy and I'm going to acknowledge that I feel like that and I am worthy of doing this hard work to get to a place where I'm happier.
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:02.640
Yeah.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.000
So what do you think?
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:08.720
And what you described, like that lack of worthiness, that can show up in different ways.
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:15.680
It can translate to fear, it can translate to shame, it can translate to whatever that person is fearing.
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:20.319
But what do you think unlocks the door for these men?
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:30.240
They eventually come to a very similar place where I did, that the pain of staying the same is greater than the idea.
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:35.839
As we think about just the general idea of are we motivated or toward motivated?
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:38.720
Do I want to get away from the pain or do I want to go toward the pleasure?
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:49.920
If we haven't set enough within ourselves to define that answer of what I want and the idea of what's the life that I'm happy in, we'll just stay in the pain because it's familiar.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.079
It sucks, but at least I know it.
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.039
Anything else out there is scary and there's comfort zone.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:06.559
And eventually the pain of staying there becomes so great that we will step towards something else, or we do that deep look inside, like what I'm living is not working.
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:07.920
What could be better?
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:16.880
And we start defining the outcome more and then start living toward it versus just jumping to the next thing and hoping we don't land in the fire.
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:17.759
Exactly.
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.400
But what do you think, especially men in midlife?
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:29.519
We think of midlife like you've probably achieved a lot of your career goals, you've probably maybe have a family, but you've done a lot of things, you've learned a lot.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:32.799
In midlife, we can say technically is 37 above.
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.200
We talk a lot about 40s, 50s, 60s.
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:42.240
What do you think men are actually hungry for in midlife, specifically as it relates to relates to spirituality?
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:46.480
Even if they can't say it, what do you mean?
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:47.440
Meaning.
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:48.079
Meaning.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:52.400
Because they put in that chase, they were told to go out and get a job.
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.400
They were told to go out and find the thing to do.
00:25:54.400 --> 00:26:03.839
And so they go into, I'm gonna get the job, I'm gonna stay in the career, I'm gonna do this, and I'm the high achiever who's gonna get the salary and the title and run the company.
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:09.440
And they did it because that's what they were told to do from the expectation of their family and the expectation of society.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:16.880
They climbed that damn ladder and they got to the peak and they looked around and they saw all the toys and all the things they'd accumulated on the checklist.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:19.920
And the checklist didn't mean a thing because they were hollow inside.
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.079
And I see that too, Daniel.
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:24.240
I think it's a time for pause, right?
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:31.440
And once you get to that pause and you connect to yourself and think there's gotta be something more here, right?
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:31.839
Yeah.
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:36.079
So we've talked a lot about men, we've talked in terms of spirituality and what you see.
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:37.359
I'm just gonna switch it a little bit.
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:46.400
We're talking about you and your own reinvention and turning points because I know you've reinvented yourself a couple of times, which you've shared some of them, but most recently you've done it again.
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:52.160
So can you walk us through your recent change and what that journey looked like for you?
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:58.400
Yeah, I was going through some really heavy throws the end of last year, noticing things were changing for me.
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:04.240
And I didn't feel as good about the work that I was doing, which was more corporate facilitation and leadership development.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:11.440
And it felt like I was changing really quickly, almost like I was blowing my website up every month because the message kept changing as I was feeling it.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:17.599
And was talking with one of my colleagues earlier this year, and she's like, You really need to be working with men.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:20.799
And it was funny, I never thought about it that way before.
00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:32.799
When I started this phase of my career, the person that I wrote to, like my ideal client avatar, was me at 38, the guy who was climbing the ladder, and I don't know what it all means, but I feel like it could be better.
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:34.960
And I started exploring that a little bit further.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.839
And for a long time, my clientele was 50-50.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:42.880
And then right around COVID, my clientele became almost predominantly women.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.960
I'm like, that's weird because I'm still doing all my content to this guy.
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:48.640
What's going on here?
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:57.519
And what I realized when I stepped back and didn't look at the presenting body in front of me, but looked at the energy of how that person was showing up.
00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:04.000
My female clients were the, if we put masculine, feminine on things as energies.
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.519
My female clients had a masculine energy.
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:09.039
They were the go-doers.
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:12.319
They were the ones who went out to get it done, the high achievers.
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:16.319
My male clients were more the nurturing feminine energy.
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:21.359
So it's like their poles were crossed as to who they were within the body.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.680
And that opened up a lot of ideas for me.
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:30.480
And then it now has become this idea of the high achieving male who has this other sense that's missing.
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.200
It might be the balance of the feminine energy coming in.
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.000
I hadn't really thought about it that way until this moment.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:45.359
They're experiencing blocks in who they are, that they're still living in a survival mode or feeling like they can't speak what they really want to speak.
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:57.279
And that that's the struggle right now is finding a where a place where they can have the permission to do it and become whole versus I'm just showing up as a mask of myself that I've learned to be.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:02.640
And how long would you say it took you to make that switch when you were talking about what the COVID clientele looked like?
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:11.599
And then in the past year, now when your colleague was like, you should be working with men, about how long did it take you to make that switch?
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:12.799
About a month.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:17.039
When she said it, it took a second for it to really settle in with me.
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:19.759
And then it just hit and I haven't looked back.
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:41.119
I just finished writing nine articles for the website in the course of two weeks because I'm so charged up with this idea of the energies within men and how we live into these blocks without even thinking about it, the stories we've inherited from society and from family, and then the ones that we keep carrying because we don't know we're even carrying them.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:49.279
And when we bring those two things to conscious awareness and start creating choice, now we can begin consciously creating our life.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:55.119
Did you realize when you were doing this change, did you think of it as reinvention?
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:58.000
It's funny.
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:00.799
I don't think I thought of it as reinvention, more just evolution.
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:01.359
Evolution.
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:17.359
Is we look back on our past and we'll judge certain aspects of it not being what we wanted it to be, but it's all brought us to here.
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:30.960
And when I look at it that way, if I had to go through these experiences to be able to sit in this chair for men to help them figure it out, it's like I've been on that same journey, and that's and I'm not here to be the guru to sit on the top.
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.000
I'm here to be the guide to help you find your way through it.
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:43.680
And you said, like all of a sudden, you made that shift within a month, but when the colleague told you that it was like that light went on, and you were like, that is what I meant to be doing.
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:55.200
Was there, did you have a physical sense in your body, whether it be in your chest or butterflies of just yes, that physical vibration when you made that connection?
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:56.799
And if so, what was it?
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:01.440
Yeah, I tend to just feel those waves come through me, like everybody does at some point.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:07.920
And I think it was a very similar just like this wave of tingle that went through me, like the light bulb got plugged in and I felt the current.
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:16.720
And then also very similar to that experience I had 13, 14 years ago when the light bulb went off over my head around problem solving.
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:31.759
And it's funny as I think about it now, I didn't feel it as like that solid of a hit, like suddenly it just dropped in because I 13, 14 years ago, I was so far away from it that when it dropped in, it was like boom, here it is.
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:36.559
And now I've been living into it for so long, it was more like a oh yeah, remember this?
00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:38.400
Yeah, that's what we're back to.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:42.400
Was there anything you had to release, belief-wise, to do that?
00:31:43.279 --> 00:32:00.799
Yeah, a whole lot of like the corporate idea, the mask that I had put on around all of that, even the training that I do around coaching, all pushed to the side as far as the active work in it, because it no longer serves me with who I am now and where I'm going next.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:03.519
Yeah, it's scary.
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:18.240
Do you think, as a result of this transformation, whether it be 13 to 14 years ago, and then again with the new focus on your clientele, do you think you've changed your relationship or definition of success in any way?
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:19.519
Absolutely.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:21.119
Absolutely.
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:25.759
It's no longer about the outside indicators.
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:26.720
They're nice.
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:28.079
I'm not saying don't go for them.
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:31.359
I'm not saying just sit on the couch and be like, oh my god, I'm gonna be successful.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:44.240
It's it yes, but they're no longer the thing that provides fulfillment because I'm not putting my happiness on something outside of me that I have no control over at the end of the day.
00:32:44.240 --> 00:33:02.720
How many of us have put our happiness and identity on a roll somewhere with a company or in a relationship later to find that it disappears and then we wonder who we are because we lived into an external mask instead of I'm doing the thing that makes me happy.
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:06.240
Like do the thing that makes you happy, and you never have to work a day in your life.
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:07.759
I never quite understood that.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:11.359
It sounded like fanciful thinking, but it's really true.
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:16.240
When you do the thing that you really care about doing and show up for that, it's not work anymore.
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:23.039
And again, your energy precedes you into the space of other people see the joy and they just get drawn to you.
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:25.759
That's so true.
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:27.920
And you can see it in you, Daniel.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:28.720
It's really funny.
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:36.319
We're on Zoom right now, just for our listeners, and you can see your energy and see your happiness, really, honestly.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:41.680
And it was so funny as I was going through this the shift and hadn't quite settled in yet.
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:50.240
Even though I was talking to another colleague, I'm like, Yeah, I was doing this corporate facilitation, like all the leadership development stuff, and this is where I'm going next.
00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:54.960
And she looked at me and she's like, Do you even see yourself right now?
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:59.200
Like you're over here talking about this corporate stuff, and you're like bored out of your mind.
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:03.920
You're like talking about you're alive when you talk about this, and this is where you need to be going.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.480
And I think I needed that external validation.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.679
I think I sensed it, but I never saw it mirrored back to me.
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:16.880
Well, that's that just suggests that there was something that moved you from that outside to internal self-trust.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:24.239
So how did you get to say once you said, oh, yeah, you're right, this might be a good pivot for me.
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:27.519
But where did the trust come from yourself to just make the leap?
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:39.920
It's funny because what has been happening over the past, I don't know, eight, eight, nine months at this point is a really interesting progression of paying attention to the signs where we started this conversation.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:45.119
That all the conversation this year in 2026 around it's the fire horse.
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:48.320
I had no idea there were elements to the Chinese zodiac.
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:49.840
I just knew about the animals.
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:54.639
And then reading what the fire horse was about, and like, okay, that sign of a lines.
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:59.599
And then I just get this little intuitive tap that says, find out how often they come around.
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:02.239
Oh, they cycle every 60 years.
00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:04.239
I turned 60 this year.
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:05.920
I was born a fire horse.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:07.440
I'm now in my fire horse year.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.400
And then there's an entire idea in Japan.
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:20.480
I'm not sure how it's pronounced, I think it's kanrake or kanreke, that when you've completed the 60-year cycle, your life is no longer about what are you going to do?
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:24.320
It's about now that you've reached this wisdom, how do you give back?
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:26.320
How do you supply from that space?
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:29.280
And that just like fully dropped in.
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:41.840
And then I went back and started rereading some of this, the foundational work that got me on this journey to begin with, the founders of new thought and really understanding energy dynamics and how we show up and what our belief systems do.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:55.039
And how when we're believing in ourselves, I don't want to make it sound too spooky that it's like the energy shifts, but when we believe in ourselves, we hold our bodies differently, we show up differently, we talk differently, and that all shows up.
00:35:55.039 --> 00:36:00.079
It comes back to the feeling of it's already here, that it's not out there to be chased.
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.239
Because when we chase it, we just keep it farther away.
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:08.239
But come back to it's here, and I am that, and I'm just removing the interference that's been in the way.
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:11.360
Sounds like that's what kept you rooted, that that connection.
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:24.639
Yeah, like this trust that it may be, it might not be feeling great, but I trust that it's going to turn as I keep showing up to do the thing and excavate what's even my story in there that's creating the sense of discord.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:27.199
Because only I can generate that.
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:28.079
It's my response.
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:30.079
It's not somebody else doing it to me.
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:32.480
They're doing their thing, that's neutral.
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:33.679
I have nothing to do with it.
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:36.639
Unless they're attacking me, then I have the right to go into a fight or flight.
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:43.760
But just somebody doing their thing saying something should have no effect on me other than the effect I allow it.
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:49.440
And if I am allowing a negative effect on me, how am I the one creating that experience?
00:36:49.440 --> 00:37:04.079
And I'm not saying that everything's positive because it's not, but taking control of who I am in the world releases that victim mentality of all the things happening around us are somehow diminishing us, and we have to fight against the world.
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:04.639
No.
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:07.679
Yeah, that's so true.
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.239
Should we make it practical, Ann?
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:13.039
You're the practical one, Melissa.
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:15.280
Let's just start making it practical.
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:20.239
And we kind of covered this earlier when we asked what does spirituality look in?
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:23.119
You kind of say connection in your daily life, right?
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:25.440
The connection to yourself and I am.
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:33.360
So how do you know physically and belief-wise, when you are not in that space of connection?
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:35.519
And what do you do about it?
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:40.719
First thing I'll notice, it'll be one of two, depending on where I'm at.
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:48.320
It'll either be I notice the the negative thoughts coming up of how frustrating things can be, or even the even some negative self-talk will pop in.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:49.599
It's like, okay, pause there.
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:51.519
So that'll be the first notice.
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:54.079
The other one is the physical notice.
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:58.239
If I'm working too long here at the desk, I'll feel the shoulders tighten up.
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.519
And that part of that could be because just my my work angle.
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:14.880
But when I notice those tensions in my body, no matter what I'm doing, that's my other signal to say, stop and pay attention and just pause and take a few deep breaths to come back to self.
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:40.880
If there's somebody out there, Daniel, who just gets so overwhelmed with the complicated thought of spirituality or being connected to the universe and connected to something greater than themselves, what would you say might be some good, non-complicated starting points for somebody who just wants to start maybe exploring what it looks like to have that common piece that you described at the beginning of this podcast?
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:47.039
The first is to give yourself permission to stop chasing.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:48.800
That's the first idea.
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:50.960
Just stop the chase and go into pause.
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:59.440
We get trained so much to go chase and pursue the next thing and solve the next problem that we're always in this loop of just doing, doing, doing, and the stress never leaves.
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:04.960
Give yourself permission to stop and break that story that if I'm not doing something, I'm lazy.
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.079
That tends to be the story that follows it.
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:11.519
Stop and breathe, right?
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:23.519
Breathe from your belly, breathe in deep, long exhales, whether it's box breathing or just slow, long inhale, exhale, and you'll sense yourself come, you'll sense that peace come to you.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:26.719
But you gotta stop running first.
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:36.480
And then the other metaphor here that might help ground this whole idea is you don't go to the gym to max out and do a PR every day.
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:48.800
If you're gonna be healthy across the board, there's max days, there's maintenance days, and there's off days because your muscles re knit when you take the day off and they become flexible when you do the maintenance.
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:52.559
That's what being a whole person is about in this space.
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.039
There's the days you're gonna be achieving, go do it.
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:57.679
There's the days when it might just be a planning day, great.
00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:00.719
But take your time off too.
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:04.480
And don't feel like I'm worrying about Monday on Saturday.
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:09.119
Be on Saturday and take a damn break.
00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:11.440
And don't feel guilty about it.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:12.880
Exactly.
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:14.400
Be happy about it.
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:15.679
And okay, interesting one there.
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:17.199
I want to grab that because this is in the moment.
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:17.519
Yeah.
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:18.639
Don't feel guilty.
00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:23.519
There's actually a law of manifesting around that's the law of reverse, the law of last experience.
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:25.440
The last thing you hear is what you tend to remember.
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:28.880
And the subconscious mind tends not to hear the word not.
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:32.000
So it's like, don't think about a pink elephant.
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:37.360
Tell me about pink elephant, you just thought of frame it to the positive.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:42.239
Be happy about it, or whatever your word is, be peaceful about it.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:48.000
Then it we're generating into the experience instead of creating the thing we want to avoid.
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:49.599
That's really good.
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:51.039
I'm taking notes.
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:51.679
That's really good.
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.119
I like the pink elephant idea too.
00:40:55.119 --> 00:41:10.320
This has been really interesting, and I think sharing your story will hopefully enlighten or empower other men to take the keys and drive and figure out whatever they might be working through on their own.
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:14.639
So every podcast, Daniel, we give our listeners some takeaways.
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:28.800
And for someone listening right now who might feel disconnected, maybe them, maybe from themselves, maybe from work, maybe from their family, whatever, where would you tell them to even start?
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:30.800
Connect to yourself first.
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.159
In this moment, if you're really in that, I don't know what it all means.
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:39.119
Don't worry about connecting to the universe, don't worry about connecting to some bigger meaning.
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:41.119
Connect to yourself.
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:53.599
Because if you're in that churn, if you're feeling a disharmony or a discord or stress, you can't be feeling that unless there was a counterpoint of peace.
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:57.920
Because if stress was all there was, you would just know stress.
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.239
You grow up in a cave, you only know darkness.
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:04.400
You step out of that cave one day and experience the warmth of the sun, and then you go back in.
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:06.239
It's like kind of damp and cold in here.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:06.880
This sucks.
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:08.239
I want to be out there.
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:12.480
Find that counterpoint, and that only happens when we slow down.
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.599
Recognize what's the other side of this story?
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:23.840
If it if it's frustrating and miserable, there's something else in you that's saying it can be different that's bringing that forward.
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:29.039
And it's not those moments of feeling that tension are not about reduction here.
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:31.840
It's about just noticing the tension.
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:34.960
And what are the two poles that are pulling you?
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.039
And which one did you want to go in that direction?
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:46.880
So it's not even worried about any bell or bigger meaning, it's about who am I and what am I experiencing right now to start to figure this out and be okay with taking baby steps on it?
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:50.639
This is not always sudden mind-blowing epiphany.
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:58.000
It can happen, but more likely to be sustainable, it's a slow growth of uncovering and that just picks up speed.
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.079
So, would you say that question you just shared, where am I and where do I want to be?
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:06.639
Would that be the first question that they should ask themselves if they're feeling disconnected?
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:07.360
Yeah.
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:08.239
Where am I right now?
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:10.079
What am I noticing and what do I want it to be?
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:14.880
Even if it's just as simple as I can tell you this, I don't know this one out here yet.
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.719
Play the opposite game.
00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:18.000
Define life right now.
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.119
It's miserable, frustrating.
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:20.960
Okay, so what's the opposite of miserable?
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:22.239
Start building that.
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:27.119
And then as you get that other list, it's a simple way to make the shift.
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:29.679
You can start, okay, what would life be like?
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:33.280
What would I be doing when these are the defining factors?
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:41.599
The other one, and I love this book because it it really helped me back 10, 15 years ago, 12, 15 years ago, the five minute journal.
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:45.440
It's essentially a gratitude journal, same five questions every day.
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.480
And it within 10 days will refocus you.
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.760
I was very much in the all I was seeing was obstacles.
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:54.960
I was so frustrated.
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:56.960
Everything was a block in my way.
00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.760
Found out about this book, started doing an it.
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:01.840
Truly is only five minutes a day.
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:03.920
Did it 10 days later?
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:07.280
I'm seeing opportunity that they were there all the time.
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:11.199
But I was so blocked in my frustration that I wasn't seeing anything else.
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:19.519
It's the idea of opening up a part of our brain that's an attention-focusing device, the reticular activating system, to seeing what's already there and we program it.
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:23.760
And it's the very basic reason and the truth behind the phrase, you get more of what you focus on.
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:43.599
And so I think just going back to practicality, what's so cool about this whole discussion, and what I'm taking away from it, is that spirituality doesn't have to be dramatic to be meaningful, and it can just be quiet and grounded, but at the same time, ultimately be life-changing.
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:44.239
Yeah.
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:45.840
And it's ultimately personal.
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:47.679
So it is what each of us wants it to be.
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:56.079
If it if we want our spirituality to be going to a mega church where we're connected to millions and there's flashing lights and ministers flying in on cables, great.
00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:57.280
That's your spirituality.
00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:58.639
And that's wonderful for you.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:00.159
I love that for you.
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:14.239
If your spirituality is sitting in nature and connecting to trees and listening to the flow of water, or sitting at the beach, or sitting in a coffee shop just observing the world, that's spirituality too.
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:22.800
It's what brings us that meaning and brings us back to this place of peace and connection that's always there when we let ourselves be there.
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:24.480
That's powerful.
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:25.360
It really is.
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:28.159
That it's individual to each person.
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:40.400
So before we head out, if somebody wants to learn more about you, Daniel, and where your services, the coaching you provide and your journey, where can they find you?
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:45.599
They can find me most easily on the web at DanielOlexa.com.
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:51.360
And also heavy presence on LinkedIn and building out the other socials like Instagram and others.
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.159
Should we ask him as one sentence with our guests?
00:45:54.159 --> 00:46:00.960
We love to ask them to leave our listeners with one sentence, particularly men in midlife who may feel a little lost right now.
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:04.559
If you left them with one sentence, what would that be?
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:07.760
You're only lost because you stopped seeking.
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:10.559
Excellent.
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:17.199
And that's so true for all of us.
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:25.280
And I think what I'm taking is that we just have to stay grounded, connected, present.
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:37.440
And when we let ourselves go away from that is when the noise starts, and when we allow external things to guide us versus our internal voice.
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:42.000
It's almost like we're constantly reinventing ourselves just to kind of get back to center.
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:43.599
Right?
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:45.360
Thank you, Daniel.
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:50.960
This was such a thoughtful conversation, and I know our listeners will get something from it.
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:59.039
And for all of you listening, if you have any questions, you now know how to reach out to Daniel and you know how to reach out to us, so please let us know.
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:03.679
Daniel, thank you so much for your time.
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:05.519
We truly appreciate it.
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:11.599
And thank you to all our listeners for joining us at Midlife Interrupted and Unfiltered.
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:15.199
If this episode hit home, share with a friend who needs to hear it.
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:19.039
And subscribe so we can keep interrupting your week with real talk.
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:26.320
You can find us on Instagram at @the.interruption where we're continuing the conversation and building this community together.
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:29.280
Until next time, interrupting those narratives.
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:31.440
And stay unfiltered.
00:00:00.719 --> 00:00:03.600
Welcome to Midlife Interrupted and Unfiltered.
00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:07.280
I'm Melissa, coach, counselor, and professional truthbringer.
00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:12.720
And I'm Ann, trial lawyer, accountability partner, and certified Pilates instructor.
00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:13.759
Yes, really.
00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:17.280
We're two East Coast women who met at kindergarten drop-off.
00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:22.239
And 15 years later decided that midlife needed a megaphone and not a mute button.
00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:24.960
So we're here to interrupt the negative narratives.
00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:30.239
And share the unfiltered truth about reinvention, period menopause, and everything in between.
00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:31.519
Just real talk.
00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:33.679
Let's go.
00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:41.119
Okay, today's conversation feels really important because we're talking about spirituality.
00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:49.520
And this is not in a way that feels overly airy, overly vague, or disconnected from real life.
00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:54.640
Yeah, what we're talking about is spirituality without the woo-woo.
00:00:54.640 --> 00:01:02.479
Like, what does it actually look like when it's grounded and useful, honest, and part of everyday life?
00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:11.840
And we are so excited to have Daniel Olexa here with us because he brings such a thoughtful perspective on reinvention, inner life, meaning, and growth.
00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:15.439
And let me add, he is our first male guest on our podcast.
00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:17.760
So we are super duper excited.
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And honestly, to Mel's point, we wanted a male voice in this conversation because men and women are often socialized so differently around emotion, spirituality, and self-awareness.
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So, Daniel, we're glad you're here.
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This is awesome to be here.
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So we're gonna dig into it and we're gonna talk a little bit with Daniel about what spirituality actually means to him.
00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:46.879
So we're gonna go to that big question and just jump right in.
00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:51.599
When you hear the word spirituality, Daniel, what does that actually mean to you?
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And let's say, without the, like Ann said, woo-woo.
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To me, it means one not tied to any specific religious doctrine.
00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:05.359
For me, others might, that's fine.
00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:06.480
That's their thing.
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:11.919
For me, it's about a connection to some bigger meaning.
00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:16.000
And it doesn't have to be the woo-woo of the universe or to source.
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Everybody's connection to that is unique and it's uniquely theirs when they get out of just feeling like they have to do everything.
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That we can come to a place where when we're calm and peaceful, that is spirituality to me.
00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:38.400
And when do you think that that definition that you just shared got real for you?
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That's an interesting question.
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I feel as it's been evolving for a number of years, and it really maybe locked in the past five to seven as a solid realization that this is beyond some doctrine or organization that wants me to think in their way and made it very personal for me that there's something much bigger here.
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:06.080
I think when I lived in Kansas City and this is 13 years ago, going through the throes of what does life mean for me?
00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:07.919
I was miserable.
00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:12.159
I was in a job that I had maxed out my potential there.
00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:19.199
I was burned out, was going through the end throes of a marriage bordering on divorce, which it eventually set to.
00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:24.000
And I could sit there and tell you every damn thing that was wrong with life.
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But there was something deeper that kept me going that said, you know, hey, kid, it doesn't have to be this way.
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That to me is the spirituality, that voice right there, that sense.
00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:54.879
And if so, do you recall where or what that moment was?
00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:56.000
Oh, yeah.
00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:00.000
I was sitting in my office and I've been in this space for about two weeks.
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:11.840
I was reading two different books, one Black Hole Focus by Isaiah Hankel, and the other was Blue Zones about the five areas in the world where people live to be over 100 and they're super healthy, and reading them at the same time.
00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:19.680
And within two days, both mentioned the concept of Ika Guy from Okinawa, the idea of waking up, the thing that gets you out of bed in the morning.
00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:22.800
And I started asking myself, why am I going to this company?
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Why am I going here when I'm done with them?
00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:28.240
They are evidently done with me.
00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:29.519
Why am I going there?
00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:32.399
And the surface answer is always because you have a mortgage, you moron.
00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:34.800
Like, okay, fine.
00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:38.399
And like two weeks of waking up every day, like, why?
00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:39.839
Why am I going there?
00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:46.399
And a client called one day and they said, So we just had this hot project dropped in our lap.
00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:47.839
We kind of know what we want.
00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:49.279
It's a really tight turn.
00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:50.560
We don't know how to get there.
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We know you will.
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Can you come over it too?
00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:53.759
Like, yeah, sure.
00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:54.319
See it too.
00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:55.920
Hang up the phone.
00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:00.079
And literally, this wave of energy just passes through me.
00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:06.240
And I feel like super solid in my core, like peaceful, calm, stable like a tree.
00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:11.839
And there's the cartoon light bulb going off over my head saying, I love problem solving.
00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:15.120
I love the negotiation of it, the finding the bigger answers.
00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:19.120
And like in that moment, oh wow, it's 11-11 here on the East Coast as we're saying this.
00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:20.480
This is just way too good.
00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:24.240
Just that moment of awareness, like, okay, that's where my passion is.
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:25.040
That's my purpose.
00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:25.839
That's my ikigai.
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What do I do with it?
00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:30.000
That's so interesting.
00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:35.439
You said earlier, use the iki guy, which I love that concept, and often use it with my own clients.
00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:42.079
But other than religious doctrine, what do you think people confuse spirituality with?
00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:44.800
Woo-woo.
00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:58.240
And it's funny, as I say this, I want to be very careful that I'm not parsing it down and saying things aren't that are, but there's so much confusion with the prop that the prop of a crystal is somehow spirituality.
00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:00.480
No, it's the belief you put into it that's the thing.
00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:16.560
And the prop of a tarot card, I read cards for a long time, that we can put it into this item, this material thing, but the spirituality is really about what we're infusing into it and what we're looking to gain from it.
00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.319
And I think that gets missed a lot.
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It's not that item.
00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:09.759
That I think it's feeling that connectivity and realizing what's around you that then gives you that calm and peaceful feeling because you're more aware of things, as opposed to just go, go, go.
00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:15.279
I have to go from this job to pick up this kid or do X, Y, and Z.
00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:33.600
So I think that what you're saying is that what it might look like on a day-to-day basis is based on what you're putting out there and then what you're recognizing in terms of the connectivity that gives you that sense of common peace.
00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:41.759
Yeah, I think on so many levels, and lots of people have said this over decades or centuries, that that sense of peacefulness.
00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:51.519
Probably the person who's wrote on it most recently that I resonate with is Mo Gaudet, who I think he was, maybe still is the chief business officer for Alphabet.
00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:55.759
He wrote a book in 2017 called Solve for Happy.
00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:02.160
And his whole idea is that happiness we are born in a default state of happiness, but we learn to be miserable.
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:09.759
And his proof for it in the book is go to any war-torn country in the world and you'll see the adults looking very haggard and weary.
00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:16.560
But if you walk away from them, you'll find a group of kids who have found a makeshift ball and they're playing in a field because they haven't learned to be unhappy.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.199
And it like blew my mind when I read that.
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:34.159
And then I think about if we come into like just a shift on even religious spiritual doctrine, the idea that depending on how you read it, the very first commandment in the Bible is thou shalt have no false gods before me.
00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:46.240
But if we align to the idea that we are this greater intelligence, whatever word you want to put on it, experiencing this life, that default state of happiness, that God is within us.
00:08:46.240 --> 00:09:03.519
But we start worshiping false gods every time we say, I'll be happy when the job comes through, the money comes through this, and we put the happiness outside of us, we put the presence and the connection to this higher meaning somewhere out there in something we have no damn control over.
00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:09.440
And that's actually the worshiping of the false God, not that you don't agree with my religion.
00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:11.519
That's all just manipulative.
00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:24.879
And to that point, Daniel, it's like too once you get to that stage, once you're in the mindset of this will make me whole, this will make me whole, that target keeps moving, then you get the job you want.
00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.200
And then you're like, well, now I want this next promotion.
00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:34.000
I feel like when you're in that mindset, there's no settling in terms of just being that calm, peaceful presence.
00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:43.919
You're always wanting what's next and moving that next signpost for yourself of wanting more and more and seeking that external validation.
00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:44.639
Yeah.
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:47.360
And it's funny because it's how we show up in a room.
00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:52.399
You think about your energy precedes you into a room.
00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.360
And when you walk into the room, you get a sense of what's going on.
00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:57.360
And people know where you're at.
00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:00.799
We all pick up on people's emotional spaces.
00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:16.399
And if we're in the I'm not there yet, or I need to make it happen, it's like we become the quintessential used car salesperson of I've got to get it, and we repel everything versus it's already here, I already am, I am.
00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:28.320
And there's a peace and calm there that just those two words, I am, a validation of existence and understanding of my being that needs no validation back.
00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:34.080
That changes our energy and how people perceive us because we're in that.
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:35.360
I don't need anything else.
00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:37.360
I I am everything that I need to be.
00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:42.799
The last episode we talked about spirituality and how we see it as a connection, connection with yourself.
00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:50.159
And that's exactly what I hear you saying is that I am and that connection and peace and presence with yourself.
00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:58.720
And did you and we've really talked about what spirituality looks like and feels like for you today?
00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:04.240
In an earlier version of you, was there even a spirituality?
00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:08.240
And if there was, how would you say that looked or felt?
00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:17.840
Or was there, because I know I could probably look back and be like, yeah, I went to church every week, but would I say that I had a connection to spirituality?
00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:19.200
No, not necessarily.
00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:20.559
Did I even acknowledge it?
00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:22.320
No, not necessarily.
00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.799
If you did have that earlier connection, what was it like?
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:28.720
And how was it different?
00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:36.559
Yeah, growing up outside of Philly, we had a church literally across the street from our house.
00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:40.159
And we went on the two major holidays that everybody goes to.
00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:43.679
We went on Easter and we went on Christmas because that was what we did.
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:45.759
Maybe occasionally showed up otherwise.
00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:48.960
And I never really quite got that.
00:11:48.960 --> 00:12:08.240
And I think there was a point in time where there you certainly get introduced to the religious idea of a certain way of being, and I moved beyond it, and then my pendulum swung all the way to the other side, where I probably bordered on a bit of agnostic atheism of there's nothing out there, and if there is, it does not care about my daily life.
00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:14.720
And then I started seeing other patterns in how belief structures showed up.
00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:29.120
And if there would be these little taps, like, you know, going to watch a rerun in the afternoon growing up in my teens of you know, Jeff stations that would show the same reruns at four o'clock in the afternoon after school, and thinking about I haven't seen that one episode in so long.
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:32.080
And suddenly that's the one that happens to be aired that day.
00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.960
I'm like, wait, what's going on here?
00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:39.679
There is something bigger when I pay attention, as you were saying, to the patterns.
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:45.440
And that's what tells me that we're both in this experience and we're also in some ways generating it.
00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:53.200
And I think that's an even bigger part that we are not just receptors of what's around us, we are also generators of our experience.
00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:59.840
And that becomes a bit of a very religious experience when I realize I have control over what happens.
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:21.120
Yeah, and to your point, I feel like when you put that positive energy or the openness of an energy out into the universe, that's when you start getting those signs back, whether it's the 1111, the rerun of a show that you were waiting to see, of just being that open kind of vessel and putting that open receptive energy out there.
00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:21.679
Yeah.
00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:30.000
And it's all about coming to that moment of getting out of our heads because we've been trained to just think about the next thing and be in the next thing before the first thing's ever.
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.000
And we just get in this churn.
00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:42.320
But when we slow down and silence this, we start to notice patterns, we start to notice broader connection that we are part of this entire thing.
00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:45.120
Yet we tell ourselves we're separate from it.
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:55.360
And organizations tell us we're separate from it and they're the conduit to it, but we're never separate from it because we're we are part of this much vaster experience.
00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:57.039
Yeah, that connectivity.
00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:09.120
I think that if anybody feels isolated or alone, when you open your mind to that concept of the greater connectivity, you can't help but feel like part of something, at least in my opinion.
00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:11.600
And should we get into the male experience?
00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:25.919
Because I know we wanted to talk a little bit more about specifically how spirituality shows up, or how you see with your clients, Daniel, being a coach and working with the male population about this experience.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:44.240
So, Daniel, it seems, at least in our experience or in our interactions and just stereotypically within the United States, that a lot of men are conditioned and still are in these younger generations to be stoic or to mask their emotions or just shut down.
00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:52.159
And I know that it's clearly a stereotype, but I know it's also a reality in many situations.
00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:54.480
So, what are your thoughts on that?
00:14:54.480 --> 00:15:09.759
Where do you think maybe that first came from where men learn that from, which is seems to me so crazy in 2026 when you know we should have evolved much more?
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:15.039
Yeah, there's the should have, and yes, we could probably be a lot farther.
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:17.679
And I think it for me it comes a couple different levels.
00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:27.039
There's if we go way, way, way back, and men tended to be the hunter-gatherers before we ever had societies.
00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:36.720
So there's this go-do thing where women tended to be more the nurturers in in those societies before there ever was society, maybe more in more tribal event.
00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:43.519
And so that gets indoctrinated along the line that men then become the go-doers and women are the nurturers.
00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:51.279
And then that turns into just family structures that also become collective cultural structures.
00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:53.840
Like I was born in the mid-60s.
00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.559
My dad was born in 1929.
00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:11.440
His formative years were obviously during the depression, very much in his uh early to midlife during the onset of the John Wayne era of men don't cry, you be tough, and you just show up and kick ass.
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:17.200
Indoctrinates us to that because that's his way of understanding what masculinity is.
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.320
That's how masculinity was defined for so long.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:27.440
You had Fred Astairs out there as well, but Fred wasn't necessarily the bastion of masculinity.
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:32.799
It was John Wayne going in with his pot belly and doing either the Western or the military movie.
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:41.440
And so it's this whole men don't cry, stuff it down, be tough, and then we just avoid our emotions and turn into pot boilers.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:57.600
And what I learned in that was seeing this parent who had the shortest of short fuses ever in a short fuse factory be so quick to anger at the time not knowing it was because he learned to stuff everything down and had no more capacity.
00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:00.559
Take that on as my reception of that.
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:02.159
Of I don't want to do that.
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:03.360
I see how that affects me.
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.119
I don't want to affect other people that way.
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:09.440
And then I start telling myself I've got to learn to stuff it and not show it.
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:13.279
Because when I do say something, I'm the one who gets slapped for it.
00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:29.680
So it turns into the story of I've just got to get better at stuffing because it's that tough rigidity of not expressing anything that's supposed to be masculine, when true masculinity is being able to be vulnerable and be appropriate with the expression of emotions throughout.
00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:32.559
And it's not this only one way.
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.319
So thank you for sharing that about your dad.
00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:42.160
And a lot of times, if you think of behavioral psychology, you get rewarded and you do it again and again.
00:17:42.160 --> 00:18:00.079
In that case, for your dad or for anybody that might not feel like they're connected or have that spirituality, what do you think that reward, what's getting rewarded that actually keeps these people, men, women, whomever, disconnected?
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:01.680
Survival.
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:03.759
Comes down to basic survival.
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:11.599
I'm gonna keep my safe myself safe by not expressing it because I learned early, if I do, I'll be threatened in some way.
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:19.599
So we just keep stuffing it down and we live at the lowest level of Maslow or the lowest level of a chakra system, pure survival.
00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.640
And then we don't express ourselves, which is the speaking out.
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:30.880
When do you think, Daniel, that you realized, and did you have to do some excavation and kind of inner child work, which to me is really interesting?
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:42.720
I'm in a few different entrepreneurial groups, and the number of men who I might just be in a little pod with, they're like, oh, I just went to this inner child retreat in Costa Rica for a week or whatever.
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:58.000
It seems like men right now in their 40s and 50s are getting the idea of a lot of their beliefs and a lot of issues come from without blaming parents, of just, hey, this is what the dynamic was like to your point.
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.680
This is how I was almost trained or rewarded or knew how to survive.
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:12.559
But do you feel like a lot of men in their midlife are realizing that something's got to change and doing that deeper inner work?
00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:13.599
Yeah.
00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:15.759
And it's where I was 13 years ago.
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:22.160
There's something in there that's saying a life might suck, but there's a side of me that says, yes, it can be better.
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:32.319
And I want to find out what that answer is because I can feel this internal churn that stress and might be creating ulcers and other things to let it go and find the answers.
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:41.519
And that might have only happened as we think about the past 30 or 40 years of our society of making therapy more mainstream.
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:51.680
And it's not you're going because you're crazy, it's because it's actually okay and healthy to talk to people about releasing all the stuff that's inside of you and having healthy conversations about it.
00:19:51.680 --> 00:20:04.960
As that has become more socially acceptable and socially aware, I think that opens it up for men now to be okay to express this and say, you know what, I haven't felt secure.
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:18.319
I've been protecting myself for so long and just being able to look inside ourselves instead of constantly being a facade and a false mask of strength when we are feeling super weak inside.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:39.519
In turn, Daniel, I would think then the internal feeling is going to that sense of calm and peace when you go through that hard work of figuring out where those triggers are, where that stuff's coming from, and really process it so that you can become a calmer person who enjoys life way more than somebody who doesn't do that.
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:40.160
Yeah.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:42.799
And my breakthrough is when I went through hypnotherapy training.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:47.039
And I was working with a hypnotherapist in Kansas City that kind of helped me the words I used earlier.
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.200
I need to find my mojo because I am not feeling it.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:50.799
I'm feeling completely defeated.
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:57.359
And that was like the first level of me awakening back to me and what I was capable of and refining my confidence.
00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:07.359
And how did that compare timeframe-wise to when you were talking about that two-week period, and then you got the phone call, and then you were like, okay, I think this is my purpose of solving problems.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.880
Was that within the same general time frame or was that?
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.480
Yeah, they were all within about a two to three month window.
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.559
It was again, it's almost spooky how these things happen once we open up to them.
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:27.119
And I joke that it was so many things in that time were just universal alignment of me opening up to the idea, and suddenly the idea presented itself.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:29.200
That's so cool.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:33.920
Building off of that, do you really think we're making progress?
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:43.359
Or do you just think we're getting better language and better PR, I guess, on this type of thing without really deep real change?
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:52.480
It's a both and because there will always be those who talk out of their head up their ass and use the words to say they're doing the work and they're not really doing the work.
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:56.480
And there will be those who double down and do the work to do the healing.
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:58.880
It's not an it's not an either or to me.
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:03.119
There's always going To be the people who can just talk the jargon and not do the work.
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.359
I think progressively we are evolving as a species.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:15.440
I definitely see that, particularly as women come more forward in leadership and the fractures in the male silo are happening.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:21.759
There's certainly men who feel threatened by that and multiple bad on them because, you know, okay, thanks for getting us where we are.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:25.119
Now it's time to go to the next thing, and that requires a different energy.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:35.359
Do you think, as a coach, are there barriers that you see men running into when they try to start exploring their inner feelings?
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:37.839
Is there a barrier that you often see?
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:55.279
The ones who are ready, and I think it's that first level of awareness of what's going on in them and being willing to look within themselves of who am I capable of at least exploring this and not just looking for the light switch quick answer.
00:22:55.279 --> 00:23:08.319
And in a weird, and I'm not sure whether this is a precursor or an after effect, what I see in the work across many years of doing this, and it was even said in my training back 14 years ago.
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:26.480
If I was to filter everything down that I've seen from clients over years and years, of hundreds of clients, thousands of clients, to one core idea of what is it underneath all of it, it's a sense of not being good enough or not deserving.
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.559
So this lack of worthiness.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:37.440
And does that show up as a belief that I hold myself back from ever exploring because I'm not good enough to even change or make a difference?
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:45.119
Or does it show up as the idea that then takes us forward into that's the thing that I need to heal within myself?
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:47.599
That's really powerful.
00:23:47.599 --> 00:24:02.000
And it takes a lot of courage, I think, for somebody to then say, okay, what's holding me back is that I don't think I'm worthy and I'm going to acknowledge that I feel like that and I am worthy of doing this hard work to get to a place where I'm happier.
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:02.640
Yeah.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.000
So what do you think?
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:08.720
And what you described, like that lack of worthiness, that can show up in different ways.
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:15.680
It can translate to fear, it can translate to shame, it can translate to whatever that person is fearing.
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:20.319
But what do you think unlocks the door for these men?
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:30.240
They eventually come to a very similar place where I did, that the pain of staying the same is greater than the idea.
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:35.839
As we think about just the general idea of are we motivated or toward motivated?
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:38.720
Do I want to get away from the pain or do I want to go toward the pleasure?
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:49.920
If we haven't set enough within ourselves to define that answer of what I want and the idea of what's the life that I'm happy in, we'll just stay in the pain because it's familiar.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.079
It sucks, but at least I know it.
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.039
Anything else out there is scary and there's comfort zone.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:06.559
And eventually the pain of staying there becomes so great that we will step towards something else, or we do that deep look inside, like what I'm living is not working.
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:07.920
What could be better?
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:16.880
And we start defining the outcome more and then start living toward it versus just jumping to the next thing and hoping we don't land in the fire.
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:17.759
Exactly.
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.400
But what do you think, especially men in midlife?
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:29.519
We think of midlife like you've probably achieved a lot of your career goals, you've probably maybe have a family, but you've done a lot of things, you've learned a lot.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:32.799
In midlife, we can say technically is 37 above.
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.200
We talk a lot about 40s, 50s, 60s.
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:42.240
What do you think men are actually hungry for in midlife, specifically as it relates to relates to spirituality?
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:46.480
Even if they can't say it, what do you mean?
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:47.440
Meaning.
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:48.079
Meaning.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:52.400
Because they put in that chase, they were told to go out and get a job.
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.400
They were told to go out and find the thing to do.
00:25:54.400 --> 00:26:03.839
And so they go into, I'm gonna get the job, I'm gonna stay in the career, I'm gonna do this, and I'm the high achiever who's gonna get the salary and the title and run the company.
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:09.440
And they did it because that's what they were told to do from the expectation of their family and the expectation of society.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:16.880
They climbed that damn ladder and they got to the peak and they looked around and they saw all the toys and all the things they'd accumulated on the checklist.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:19.920
And the checklist didn't mean a thing because they were hollow inside.
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.079
And I see that too, Daniel.
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:24.240
I think it's a time for pause, right?
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:31.440
And once you get to that pause and you connect to yourself and think there's gotta be something more here, right?
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:31.839
Yeah.
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:36.079
So we've talked a lot about men, we've talked in terms of spirituality and what you see.
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:37.359
I'm just gonna switch it a little bit.
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:46.400
We're talking about you and your own reinvention and turning points because I know you've reinvented yourself a couple of times, which you've shared some of them, but most recently you've done it again.
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:52.160
So can you walk us through your recent change and what that journey looked like for you?
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:58.400
Yeah, I was going through some really heavy throws the end of last year, noticing things were changing for me.
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:04.240
And I didn't feel as good about the work that I was doing, which was more corporate facilitation and leadership development.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:11.440
And it felt like I was changing really quickly, almost like I was blowing my website up every month because the message kept changing as I was feeling it.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:17.599
And was talking with one of my colleagues earlier this year, and she's like, You really need to be working with men.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:20.799
And it was funny, I never thought about it that way before.
00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:32.799
When I started this phase of my career, the person that I wrote to, like my ideal client avatar, was me at 38, the guy who was climbing the ladder, and I don't know what it all means, but I feel like it could be better.
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:34.960
And I started exploring that a little bit further.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.839
And for a long time, my clientele was 50-50.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:42.880
And then right around COVID, my clientele became almost predominantly women.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.960
I'm like, that's weird because I'm still doing all my content to this guy.
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:48.640
What's going on here?
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:57.519
And what I realized when I stepped back and didn't look at the presenting body in front of me, but looked at the energy of how that person was showing up.
00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:04.000
My female clients were the, if we put masculine, feminine on things as energies.
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.519
My female clients had a masculine energy.
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:09.039
They were the go-doers.
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:12.319
They were the ones who went out to get it done, the high achievers.
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:16.319
My male clients were more the nurturing feminine energy.
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:21.359
So it's like their poles were crossed as to who they were within the body.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.680
And that opened up a lot of ideas for me.
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:30.480
And then it now has become this idea of the high achieving male who has this other sense that's missing.
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.200
It might be the balance of the feminine energy coming in.
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.000
I hadn't really thought about it that way until this moment.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:45.359
They're experiencing blocks in who they are, that they're still living in a survival mode or feeling like they can't speak what they really want to speak.
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:57.279
And that that's the struggle right now is finding a where a place where they can have the permission to do it and become whole versus I'm just showing up as a mask of myself that I've learned to be.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:02.640
And how long would you say it took you to make that switch when you were talking about what the COVID clientele looked like?
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:11.599
And then in the past year, now when your colleague was like, you should be working with men, about how long did it take you to make that switch?
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:12.799
About a month.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:17.039
When she said it, it took a second for it to really settle in with me.
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:19.759
And then it just hit and I haven't looked back.
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:41.119
I just finished writing nine articles for the website in the course of two weeks because I'm so charged up with this idea of the energies within men and how we live into these blocks without even thinking about it, the stories we've inherited from society and from family, and then the ones that we keep carrying because we don't know we're even carrying them.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:49.279
And when we bring those two things to conscious awareness and start creating choice, now we can begin consciously creating our life.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:55.119
Did you realize when you were doing this change, did you think of it as reinvention?
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:58.000
It's funny.
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:00.799
I don't think I thought of it as reinvention, more just evolution.
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:01.359
Evolution.
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:17.359
Is we look back on our past and we'll judge certain aspects of it not being what we wanted it to be, but it's all brought us to here.
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:30.960
And when I look at it that way, if I had to go through these experiences to be able to sit in this chair for men to help them figure it out, it's like I've been on that same journey, and that's and I'm not here to be the guru to sit on the top.
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.000
I'm here to be the guide to help you find your way through it.
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:43.680
And you said, like all of a sudden, you made that shift within a month, but when the colleague told you that it was like that light went on, and you were like, that is what I meant to be doing.
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:55.200
Was there, did you have a physical sense in your body, whether it be in your chest or butterflies of just yes, that physical vibration when you made that connection?
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:56.799
And if so, what was it?
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:01.440
Yeah, I tend to just feel those waves come through me, like everybody does at some point.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:07.920
And I think it was a very similar just like this wave of tingle that went through me, like the light bulb got plugged in and I felt the current.
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:16.720
And then also very similar to that experience I had 13, 14 years ago when the light bulb went off over my head around problem solving.
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:31.759
And it's funny as I think about it now, I didn't feel it as like that solid of a hit, like suddenly it just dropped in because I 13, 14 years ago, I was so far away from it that when it dropped in, it was like boom, here it is.
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:36.559
And now I've been living into it for so long, it was more like a oh yeah, remember this?
00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:38.400
Yeah, that's what we're back to.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:42.400
Was there anything you had to release, belief-wise, to do that?
00:31:43.279 --> 00:32:00.799
Yeah, a whole lot of like the corporate idea, the mask that I had put on around all of that, even the training that I do around coaching, all pushed to the side as far as the active work in it, because it no longer serves me with who I am now and where I'm going next.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:03.519
Yeah, it's scary.
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:18.240
Do you think, as a result of this transformation, whether it be 13 to 14 years ago, and then again with the new focus on your clientele, do you think you've changed your relationship or definition of success in any way?
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:19.519
Absolutely.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:21.119
Absolutely.
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:25.759
It's no longer about the outside indicators.
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:26.720
They're nice.
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:28.079
I'm not saying don't go for them.
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:31.359
I'm not saying just sit on the couch and be like, oh my god, I'm gonna be successful.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:44.240
It's it yes, but they're no longer the thing that provides fulfillment because I'm not putting my happiness on something outside of me that I have no control over at the end of the day.
00:32:44.240 --> 00:33:02.720
How many of us have put our happiness and identity on a roll somewhere with a company or in a relationship later to find that it disappears and then we wonder who we are because we lived into an external mask instead of I'm doing the thing that makes me happy.
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:06.240
Like do the thing that makes you happy, and you never have to work a day in your life.
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:07.759
I never quite understood that.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:11.359
It sounded like fanciful thinking, but it's really true.
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:16.240
When you do the thing that you really care about doing and show up for that, it's not work anymore.
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:23.039
And again, your energy precedes you into the space of other people see the joy and they just get drawn to you.
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:25.759
That's so true.
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:27.920
And you can see it in you, Daniel.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:28.720
It's really funny.
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:36.319
We're on Zoom right now, just for our listeners, and you can see your energy and see your happiness, really, honestly.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:41.680
And it was so funny as I was going through this the shift and hadn't quite settled in yet.
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:50.240
Even though I was talking to another colleague, I'm like, Yeah, I was doing this corporate facilitation, like all the leadership development stuff, and this is where I'm going next.
00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:54.960
And she looked at me and she's like, Do you even see yourself right now?
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:59.200
Like you're over here talking about this corporate stuff, and you're like bored out of your mind.
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:03.920
You're like talking about you're alive when you talk about this, and this is where you need to be going.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.480
And I think I needed that external validation.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.679
I think I sensed it, but I never saw it mirrored back to me.
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:16.880
Well, that's that just suggests that there was something that moved you from that outside to internal self-trust.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:24.239
So how did you get to say once you said, oh, yeah, you're right, this might be a good pivot for me.
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:27.519
But where did the trust come from yourself to just make the leap?
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:39.920
It's funny because what has been happening over the past, I don't know, eight, eight, nine months at this point is a really interesting progression of paying attention to the signs where we started this conversation.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:45.119
That all the conversation this year in 2026 around it's the fire horse.
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:48.320
I had no idea there were elements to the Chinese zodiac.
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:49.840
I just knew about the animals.
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:54.639
And then reading what the fire horse was about, and like, okay, that sign of a lines.
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:59.599
And then I just get this little intuitive tap that says, find out how often they come around.
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:02.239
Oh, they cycle every 60 years.
00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:04.239
I turned 60 this year.
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:05.920
I was born a fire horse.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:07.440
I'm now in my fire horse year.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.400
And then there's an entire idea in Japan.
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:20.480
I'm not sure how it's pronounced, I think it's kanrake or kanreke, that when you've completed the 60-year cycle, your life is no longer about what are you going to do?
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:24.320
It's about now that you've reached this wisdom, how do you give back?
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:26.320
How do you supply from that space?
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:29.280
And that just like fully dropped in.
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:41.840
And then I went back and started rereading some of this, the foundational work that got me on this journey to begin with, the founders of new thought and really understanding energy dynamics and how we show up and what our belief systems do.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:55.039
And how when we're believing in ourselves, I don't want to make it sound too spooky that it's like the energy shifts, but when we believe in ourselves, we hold our bodies differently, we show up differently, we talk differently, and that all shows up.
00:35:55.039 --> 00:36:00.079
It comes back to the feeling of it's already here, that it's not out there to be chased.
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.239
Because when we chase it, we just keep it farther away.
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:08.239
But come back to it's here, and I am that, and I'm just removing the interference that's been in the way.
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:11.360
Sounds like that's what kept you rooted, that that connection.
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:24.639
Yeah, like this trust that it may be, it might not be feeling great, but I trust that it's going to turn as I keep showing up to do the thing and excavate what's even my story in there that's creating the sense of discord.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:27.199
Because only I can generate that.
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:28.079
It's my response.
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:30.079
It's not somebody else doing it to me.
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:32.480
They're doing their thing, that's neutral.
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:33.679
I have nothing to do with it.
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:36.639
Unless they're attacking me, then I have the right to go into a fight or flight.
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:43.760
But just somebody doing their thing saying something should have no effect on me other than the effect I allow it.
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:49.440
And if I am allowing a negative effect on me, how am I the one creating that experience?
00:36:49.440 --> 00:37:04.079
And I'm not saying that everything's positive because it's not, but taking control of who I am in the world releases that victim mentality of all the things happening around us are somehow diminishing us, and we have to fight against the world.
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:04.639
No.
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:07.679
Yeah, that's so true.
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.239
Should we make it practical, Ann?
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:13.039
You're the practical one, Melissa.
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:15.280
Let's just start making it practical.
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:20.239
And we kind of covered this earlier when we asked what does spirituality look in?
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:23.119
You kind of say connection in your daily life, right?
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:25.440
The connection to yourself and I am.
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:33.360
So how do you know physically and belief-wise, when you are not in that space of connection?
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:35.519
And what do you do about it?
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:40.719
First thing I'll notice, it'll be one of two, depending on where I'm at.
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:48.320
It'll either be I notice the the negative thoughts coming up of how frustrating things can be, or even the even some negative self-talk will pop in.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:49.599
It's like, okay, pause there.
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:51.519
So that'll be the first notice.
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:54.079
The other one is the physical notice.
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:58.239
If I'm working too long here at the desk, I'll feel the shoulders tighten up.
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.519
And that part of that could be because just my my work angle.
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:14.880
But when I notice those tensions in my body, no matter what I'm doing, that's my other signal to say, stop and pay attention and just pause and take a few deep breaths to come back to self.
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:40.880
If there's somebody out there, Daniel, who just gets so overwhelmed with the complicated thought of spirituality or being connected to the universe and connected to something greater than themselves, what would you say might be some good, non-complicated starting points for somebody who just wants to start maybe exploring what it looks like to have that common piece that you described at the beginning of this podcast?
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:47.039
The first is to give yourself permission to stop chasing.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:48.800
That's the first idea.
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:50.960
Just stop the chase and go into pause.
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:59.440
We get trained so much to go chase and pursue the next thing and solve the next problem that we're always in this loop of just doing, doing, doing, and the stress never leaves.
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:04.960
Give yourself permission to stop and break that story that if I'm not doing something, I'm lazy.
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.079
That tends to be the story that follows it.
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:11.519
Stop and breathe, right?
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:23.519
Breathe from your belly, breathe in deep, long exhales, whether it's box breathing or just slow, long inhale, exhale, and you'll sense yourself come, you'll sense that peace come to you.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:26.719
But you gotta stop running first.
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:36.480
And then the other metaphor here that might help ground this whole idea is you don't go to the gym to max out and do a PR every day.
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:48.800
If you're gonna be healthy across the board, there's max days, there's maintenance days, and there's off days because your muscles re knit when you take the day off and they become flexible when you do the maintenance.
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:52.559
That's what being a whole person is about in this space.
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.039
There's the days you're gonna be achieving, go do it.
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:57.679
There's the days when it might just be a planning day, great.
00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:00.719
But take your time off too.
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:04.480
And don't feel like I'm worrying about Monday on Saturday.
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:09.119
Be on Saturday and take a damn break.
00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:11.440
And don't feel guilty about it.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:12.880
Exactly.
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:14.400
Be happy about it.
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:15.679
And okay, interesting one there.
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:17.199
I want to grab that because this is in the moment.
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:17.519
Yeah.
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:18.639
Don't feel guilty.
00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:23.519
There's actually a law of manifesting around that's the law of reverse, the law of last experience.
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:25.440
The last thing you hear is what you tend to remember.
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:28.880
And the subconscious mind tends not to hear the word not.
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:32.000
So it's like, don't think about a pink elephant.
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:37.360
Tell me about pink elephant, you just thought of frame it to the positive.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:42.239
Be happy about it, or whatever your word is, be peaceful about it.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:48.000
Then it we're generating into the experience instead of creating the thing we want to avoid.
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:49.599
That's really good.
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:51.039
I'm taking notes.
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:51.679
That's really good.
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.119
I like the pink elephant idea too.
00:40:55.119 --> 00:41:10.320
This has been really interesting, and I think sharing your story will hopefully enlighten or empower other men to take the keys and drive and figure out whatever they might be working through on their own.
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:14.639
So every podcast, Daniel, we give our listeners some takeaways.
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:28.800
And for someone listening right now who might feel disconnected, maybe them, maybe from themselves, maybe from work, maybe from their family, whatever, where would you tell them to even start?
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:30.800
Connect to yourself first.
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.159
In this moment, if you're really in that, I don't know what it all means.
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:39.119
Don't worry about connecting to the universe, don't worry about connecting to some bigger meaning.
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:41.119
Connect to yourself.
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:53.599
Because if you're in that churn, if you're feeling a disharmony or a discord or stress, you can't be feeling that unless there was a counterpoint of peace.
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:57.920
Because if stress was all there was, you would just know stress.
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.239
You grow up in a cave, you only know darkness.
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:04.400
You step out of that cave one day and experience the warmth of the sun, and then you go back in.
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:06.239
It's like kind of damp and cold in here.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:06.880
This sucks.
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:08.239
I want to be out there.
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:12.480
Find that counterpoint, and that only happens when we slow down.
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.599
Recognize what's the other side of this story?
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:23.840
If it if it's frustrating and miserable, there's something else in you that's saying it can be different that's bringing that forward.
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:29.039
And it's not those moments of feeling that tension are not about reduction here.
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:31.840
It's about just noticing the tension.
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:34.960
And what are the two poles that are pulling you?
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.039
And which one did you want to go in that direction?
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:46.880
So it's not even worried about any bell or bigger meaning, it's about who am I and what am I experiencing right now to start to figure this out and be okay with taking baby steps on it?
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:50.639
This is not always sudden mind-blowing epiphany.
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:58.000
It can happen, but more likely to be sustainable, it's a slow growth of uncovering and that just picks up speed.
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.079
So, would you say that question you just shared, where am I and where do I want to be?
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:06.639
Would that be the first question that they should ask themselves if they're feeling disconnected?
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:07.360
Yeah.
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:08.239
Where am I right now?
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:10.079
What am I noticing and what do I want it to be?
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:14.880
Even if it's just as simple as I can tell you this, I don't know this one out here yet.
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.719
Play the opposite game.
00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:18.000
Define life right now.
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.119
It's miserable, frustrating.
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:20.960
Okay, so what's the opposite of miserable?
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:22.239
Start building that.
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:27.119
And then as you get that other list, it's a simple way to make the shift.
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:29.679
You can start, okay, what would life be like?
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:33.280
What would I be doing when these are the defining factors?
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:41.599
The other one, and I love this book because it it really helped me back 10, 15 years ago, 12, 15 years ago, the five minute journal.
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:45.440
It's essentially a gratitude journal, same five questions every day.
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.480
And it within 10 days will refocus you.
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.760
I was very much in the all I was seeing was obstacles.
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:54.960
I was so frustrated.
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:56.960
Everything was a block in my way.
00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.760
Found out about this book, started doing an it.
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:01.840
Truly is only five minutes a day.
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:03.920
Did it 10 days later?
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:07.280
I'm seeing opportunity that they were there all the time.
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:11.199
But I was so blocked in my frustration that I wasn't seeing anything else.
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:19.519
It's the idea of opening up a part of our brain that's an attention-focusing device, the reticular activating system, to seeing what's already there and we program it.
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:23.760
And it's the very basic reason and the truth behind the phrase, you get more of what you focus on.
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:43.599
And so I think just going back to practicality, what's so cool about this whole discussion, and what I'm taking away from it, is that spirituality doesn't have to be dramatic to be meaningful, and it can just be quiet and grounded, but at the same time, ultimately be life-changing.
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:44.239
Yeah.
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:45.840
And it's ultimately personal.
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:47.679
So it is what each of us wants it to be.
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:56.079
If it if we want our spirituality to be going to a mega church where we're connected to millions and there's flashing lights and ministers flying in on cables, great.
00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:57.280
That's your spirituality.
00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:58.639
And that's wonderful for you.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:00.159
I love that for you.
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:14.239
If your spirituality is sitting in nature and connecting to trees and listening to the flow of water, or sitting at the beach, or sitting in a coffee shop just observing the world, that's spirituality too.
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:22.800
It's what brings us that meaning and brings us back to this place of peace and connection that's always there when we let ourselves be there.
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:24.480
That's powerful.
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:25.360
It really is.
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:28.159
That it's individual to each person.
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:40.400
So before we head out, if somebody wants to learn more about you, Daniel, and where your services, the coaching you provide and your journey, where can they find you?
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:45.599
They can find me most easily on the web at DanielOlexa.com.
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:51.360
And also heavy presence on LinkedIn and building out the other socials like Instagram and others.
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.159
Should we ask him as one sentence with our guests?
00:45:54.159 --> 00:46:00.960
We love to ask them to leave our listeners with one sentence, particularly men in midlife who may feel a little lost right now.
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:04.559
If you left them with one sentence, what would that be?
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:07.760
You're only lost because you stopped seeking.
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:10.559
Excellent.
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:17.199
And that's so true for all of us.
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:25.280
And I think what I'm taking is that we just have to stay grounded, connected, present.
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:37.440
And when we let ourselves go away from that is when the noise starts, and when we allow external things to guide us versus our internal voice.
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:42.000
It's almost like we're constantly reinventing ourselves just to kind of get back to center.
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:43.599
Right?
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:45.360
Thank you, Daniel.
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:50.960
This was such a thoughtful conversation, and I know our listeners will get something from it.
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:59.039
And for all of you listening, if you have any questions, you now know how to reach out to Daniel and you know how to reach out to us, so please let us know.
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:03.679
Daniel, thank you so much for your time.
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:05.519
We truly appreciate it.
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:11.599
And thank you to all our listeners for joining us at Midlife Interrupted and Unfiltered.
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:15.199
If this episode hit home, share with a friend who needs to hear it.
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:19.039
And subscribe so we can keep interrupting your week with real talk.
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:26.320
You can find us on Instagram at @the.interruption where we're continuing the conversation and building this community together.
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:29.280
Until next time, interrupting those narratives.
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:31.440
And stay unfiltered.
