Everything’s Perfect Except... Nothing About This Case Adds Up

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In what world do you show up to a home
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where the mom is outside essentially half dead with multiple
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different injuries?
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Yeah.
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The kids, we come to find out, are unalive. 18
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days after your three babies are gone and your wife
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tried to take her life, you're posting a photo smiling
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out on a hike and saying like, it's hot, but
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it was worth it.
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I think if she did it, she... It was a break. Snapped,
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had a break, and it was a psychotic break. Yeah.
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She tried to... slit her wrist, but she did it
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the wrong way.
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Horizontally, not vertically, which vertically would be the guaranteed way.
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She's a labor and delivery nurse, so already you know
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she knows things about the body. Why wasn't everything investigated
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so hard that so much went overlooked? That is disturbing
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in and of itself to me. Hi.
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Hello. How are you? Oh, fabulous.
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Fabulous.
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How are you doing?
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I'm melting because this air conditioning apparently can't keep up
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with the, what it, it's, why is it Florida humidity?
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We're in California. I'm dying.
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I'm saying I got, you know, you know, I drove,
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but for the listeners, I drove in today from Arizona
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and I was like, Ooh, it is hot and wet.
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I'm not here for this. Let me tell you. The
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one thing I count on is it to be not
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humid because my hair gets real big. I got it
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colored today. So it won't be because they blow dried it.
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And they have some magic something.
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Yeah. It's their trade secret. No hairdresser can actually show
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their client how they do it. Ever.
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I'm like, okay, I don't know what you did, but
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tell me how. And they're like, it's just a round
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brush and a blow dryer.
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And I'm like, bitch, no, it's not. It's more than
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a round brush and a blow dryer. I've been using them. Yeah.
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And they don't look like this.
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Speaking of big hair, since my hairstyle is changing, footsie,
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my sister-in-law was like, what? Told me to get a perm.
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So I'm going to bring it way back. Donald.
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First of all, I don't know if it's quite long enough.
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No, it's not. I would have to grow longer. And
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I don't think I can let it grow longer. I
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think it's already a hair too long. I'm trying to
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find like my happy place for the new style.
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I know you're really trying to do this 70s, 80s thing.
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And don't get me wrong. I'm here for it because
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I am an 80s girl.
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Yeah.
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And the sort of curly mullet but not mullet was
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a thing.
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Right.
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Right. But you're investing an awful lot.
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Exactly. And once you perm, it's like.
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It takes a minute.
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Yeah, it has to all grow out. Or you, you know,
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I could buzz my head, but then it's like, what
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was the point of any of this?
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I asked my colorist today, I was like, what do
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you think about keratin treatment? And she was like, girl,
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it's not worth it. She's like, because it's very few
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and far between of people that can do it right.
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And if they burn your hair, she's like, this is
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not something they can fix. It's like, she's like, you've
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been growing your hair out. If they burn it, you're
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going to have to just wait. And I was like, okay.
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Because the keratin is where it's like basically like silky straight.
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Because again, my hair is doing this crazy thing right now.
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I think because of my hormone shifting. She's like, you
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have some actual like ringlets under here. I said, I know,
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but it's like ringlets at the top and then straight
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at the end. And so it's not like I can't
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wear it curly, but getting it straight is like, I
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got to get in there with a flat iron. And
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I don't like that. I like a little volume, but
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without it being frizzy. This is not what this topic
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is going to be about today, by the way. I
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don't know how we got on hair already, but.
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But while we're on it, I, so for the last decade,
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I've had a skin fade. You know, like, wait, what?
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Okay.
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And I remember I did a little hair modeling back
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in the early 2000s. And one time, one of the Uh,
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like hair specialists that came in who were, it was
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cutting my hair. It was like, oh my God, you
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have curly hair on the side. And I was like,
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I call these my pubes on my head because it's
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like really wiry, curly hair up in here. But I
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forgot that existed because I've been doing the skin fade. Well,
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it's back bitch. And it's back with a vengeance. And
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that also happens to be where I'm going gray.
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Okay.
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Tell me about it. But I take my like little
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beard cover up spoolie and just to help it blend
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a little bit. So we're holding on by a thread.
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Well, it's really funny that you mentioned a perm because
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I actually had said to my hairdresser, the one who
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cuts my hair, I said it to him like six
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months ago because my hair, again, it's getting these weird ringlets.
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And I was like, should I perm it? And he
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just kind of looked at me like I was crazy.
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And I was like, so that's a no. And he
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was like, I mean, it would.
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Be so fun for two days.
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Right?
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah. You also stink like perm solution. Oh my God.
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There's nothing like that.
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But it is kind of fun to just, you know,
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you perm it and then you spray the curl stuff
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on and you scrunch and then you go about your day.
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Wild and free.
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And you're just 80s. Yep.
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I know.
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Donald and I might show up here one day with
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a perm. You don't know.
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You never know.
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We might do it together.
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Looking like we did last year when we dressed up
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for Halloween, which Halloween is coming quickly. We need to
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have a little meeting about it.
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We better be better than that because it was not
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good last year.
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Honestly, judging by history.
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I'm about to get naked in here just so you know.
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It is so hot.
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I'm like, can I just? I already went like it's
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the smallest top possible, but Jesus.
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Yeah, it'll hopefully it'll cool down. We do at some point,
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we should do another. I was thinking of this episode
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on trends or at least touch on trends because there's
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a few trends I'm seeing that I want to try.
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Okay.
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What are they? Well, one, it is hot. We need
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a fan. Um, yeah, you know, you need that. Um, Well, one,
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have you seen the guys on, and maybe your algorithm
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doesn't have fashionable gay men all over it, like mine does,
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but they're wearing like short athletic shirts and larger- Shorts
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or shorts?
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Shorts.
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Okay. Short athletic shorts and larger like button down shirts. Okay.
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And high white socks. So we're really- With loafers, like
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black dress loafers. It's a thing. And sometimes they'll even,
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instead of the shirt, have on like a tank kind
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of like I have on and a suit jacket with
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their athletic. I'm going to show you because it's one
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of those things where I'm like, I don't know why,
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but I want to wear that outfit.
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Let me tell you. It's so funny. This is so
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weird that you're bringing this up. I don't know what
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made me think of this the other day. Probably because
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it was so hot outside. Oh, I know what it was.
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I saw somebody wearing like a short sleeve button, like
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a guy. He was in a short sleeve like button down.
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And I was just like... It's not it.
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Yeah.
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Like it reminds me of like pocket protector nerd a
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little bit. And then I was like, it just triggered
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this memory when I was like walking around Beverly Hills
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probably 20 years ago. And there was this guy walking
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down the street, full on nice like suit jacket, briefcase, loafers.
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But he didn't have on dress pants. He had on
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pinstripe dress shorts. Like literally like, but the actual same
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material and everything of what would be the suit pant.
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but they were shorts. And then he had his black
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socks pulled up. And I just remember looking at him
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and I was like, if that walked into my meeting,
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I would be like, absolutely.
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I don't take you serious. That's the thing about these
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kind of outfits. Where the fuck do you wear? This
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guy was wearing it to the office.
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He was for sure like a Beverly Hills attorney or banker,
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like something. Because it was all the things, but it
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was just not pants. It was shorts. And I was like, no, no, no.
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Yeah. Most offices, you walk in and they'd Until you
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turn around. Unless it maybe like, or if it's a
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fashion company brand.
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I think it was like a trend that like something
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was like trying to catch on. And so he was,
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because like I said, they weren't not nice shorts. They
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were literally the same material as a suit jacket. It
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just looked weird as hell because you're in shorts and
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high black socks and loafers.
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It's tough. It's tough in these streets trying to, because
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I'm trying to stay current, trying to stay hip. And
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that's the reason I changed my hairstyle because I went
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to the gym and I saw all the young kids,
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all the young adults with their hair growing out in
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the back. And I was like, bitch, I can't be
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the one that like won't change the style because I
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don't understand it. But now I'm sitting in overalls and
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I feel like a mix between an adult and like
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a baby onesie. And also I have the urge to
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undo one strap. Okay. But that's our... Slim photos here. Yes,
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that is.
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I get it.
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It's just because I'm a millennial. So anyways, the struggle
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is real.
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Well, I asked you if I look like Avril Lavigne's
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skater boy.
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No, I'm not.
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Because normally I do these pants with like a big heel. Uh-huh.
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And like a bodysuit. But I wasn't about to put
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that on right now.
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No, it looks... Are you kidding?
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It's so hot. I was like, a bodysuit? Then it's
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digging in my hoo-ha?
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No. Uh-uh.
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That is not it.
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I walked out and saw your... outfit. You were on
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the phone though. And I was like, Oh my God,
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I love that outfit. So good. Okay. Anyways, let's talk
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about less serious things.
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I was like, wait, I thought.
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Yeah. So I just want to give a little preface.
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Yeah.
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Autumn and I have been going back and forth. And
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by the time this episode releases, likely there will be
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resolution that we don't have now, but we've been talking about,
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and you've probably heard about the Clancy trial, Lindsay Clancy trial.
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Lindsay and Patrick. Lindsay, yeah, and her now ex-husband, at
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the time husband Patrick, and their three kids were... Unalived. Unalived.
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And I just want to, I do want to give
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a trigger warning that we might say some words just
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while we're talking that, you know... The whole.
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Topic is a trigger warning.
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Exactly.
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So just be aware of that. We're talking about the
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Lindsay Clancy case. And just multiple facets of that. Like
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everything from the trial and.
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Yeah, like what we think about it. And that's the
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other thing I wanted to say. Everything we're saying, of course, is.
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It's just our thoughts. And speaking for myself personally, a
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lot of my thoughts have been greatly affected by theories
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and things I've seen online. That doesn't mean that they're
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not valid, but of course, they're my thoughts. So I
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find validity in that. So this is just our opinion,
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Autumn and I going back and forth. And we were like,
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you know what? Let's bring it to the podcast.
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Yes. And then also, I think we're obviously going to
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talk about too, and remember, we are uneducated in this
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aspect of like, women's health and some things and postpartum and... Yeah.
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And so there's multiple layers and levels to where we
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might go down the rabbit hole with this discussion. So
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if any of it makes you uncomfortable, this might not
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be the episode for you.
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And this is, again, just our take on it like
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anyone else you would see online. We're not claiming to
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be some experts.
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We're also, I think, playing a little devil's advocate. Yeah.
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Like a little back and forth. This and the that
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and the this and the that. So.
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So I remember though, I talked to you about it
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and you were like, you weren't really, I was like,
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have you been following the case? I wasn't watching it.
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I was seeing things kind of pop up on social,
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but I really wasn't following it because my initial thought
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was like, that is horrific. And I don't even want
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to hear about this because the world is sad and
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depressing enough. But then you said it. And so I
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was like, well, let me look. Yep. And then.
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The algorithm does what it does. Yes.
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And also, I have... I think I've told you this. Like,
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I actually spent a semester studying law because I was
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debating actually going to law school. Because I really find
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my brain.
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Because you love to fight. Let's call it what it is.
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I'm just kidding. Well, yeah, that too. No, my brain
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works a little bit in puzzles.
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Yeah.
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So, like, the evidence and things like that and timelines
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and does this add up. And I'll pick up on
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certain things that I'm like, that... Did you see that?
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That doesn't add up. Or like, oh my gosh, I
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can't believe they didn't address da-da-da. Like, I wasn't watching
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it all live, but I was following sort of one
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person who was recapping all the notes every day. So
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I was trying to stick fairly much to what was
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being presented as evidence in the trial. Because yes, there's,
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and I've seen tons of opinions. And some people are
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like all over the place with it. And it's inaccurate
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based on what the summary of sort of the notes
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each day were, but nonetheless.
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And the truth is when it comes to trials, there
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are limits to questions that can be asked. If you
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ask a question that's outside of the purpose of the trial,
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like an attorney can't just ask or accuse or bring
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another suspect or anything like that. But the cool thing that,
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and I think that it's one of the benefits about
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the internet today is other people can ask, I'm laughing
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because the bird.
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Wants to be a part of the conversation. It's like
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Snow White is happening outside the house right now.
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So anyway, this is cheery.
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Yeah, we're trying to have a real conversation here.
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So my first thing about it is any time, no
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matter what, it's a sad story. Because one of these
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two parents are, in my opinion, responsible. And maybe... both
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in a way for the end that came to those
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three kids. And that is the saddest thing. And there's like,
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I think everyone wants justice for the kids, but the
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things that started to be uncovered in the trial and
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just like so much mishaps with the evidence. So what, what,
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why don't you like, what's one of the biggest things or.
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00:14:01.580 --> 00:14:05.059
Okay. So I, well, first of all, the first thing
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that really bugs me about it is, I believe that everybody,
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you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. And I
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don't feel like from the second thing started happening that
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that is how the whole thing was perceived. It was
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Patrick said, I got home, found her outside. She told
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me she tried to unalive herself and that the kids
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were in the basement. And from that moment on, It
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was apparently taken as fact. And I say apparently because
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I'm talking about the testimony of all the police officers
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and first responders and how things were or were not
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actually tested or investigated. And I'm like, in what world
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do you show up to a home where the mom
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is outside essentially half dead?
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Yeah.
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With multiple different injuries.
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Yeah.
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The kids. We come to find out are unalive. The
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dad is the only one unscathed. And I know, obviously,
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he wasn't there. Wasn't there. But just think, in what
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world does the police show up and they don't start
329
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nailing this guy with questions? Where were you? What did
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you come home? Like, why wasn't everything investigated so hard?
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Yeah.
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That is disturbing in and of itself to me. Yeah.
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That so much went overlooked. Mm-hmm. And his story from
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the beginning. Like, if you're a police officer, let me
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just say this really quick. Because we're going to bounce
336
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around a little bit.
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Yeah, of course.
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Since they've already done closing arguments, we know all of
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the information at this point.
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And this, again, it's so interesting because I know when
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our listeners or listeners viewers on YouTube, we'll know what
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the verdict or if it was a hung jury or whatever.
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But as of right now, the jury's deliberated for like
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two days. Now it's the weekend. So we'll see Monday.
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But anyways.
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If I'm a police officer and I arrived or I'm
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the investigator and I arrived to this scene and there
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is a woman in the snow who can do nothing
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but groan in pain, can't form sentences, can't form words,
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severely injured. And the husband says to me that, Three
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minutes earlier, because they said the paramedics and police arrived
352
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almost immediately. Yeah.
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Okay?
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So again, I'm using what was said. They arrived almost immediately.
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So within only a few minutes, she told him that
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she tried to unalive herself and the kids were in
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the basement. But a few minutes later, when paramedics and
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police get there, her body temperature is 82. She can
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only moan. She's in and out of consciousness. And your
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first thought isn't, how did just a few minutes ago
361
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she tell you all these things?
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No problem.
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Even if it's like 10 minutes. Like as an investigator,
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what the fuck?
365
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Yeah.
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So already you failed.
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Right.
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And also go back to school because you don't know
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what you're doing. It really makes me angry because I'm
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00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.170
just like, that's bad police work.
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00:17:22.549 --> 00:17:26.740
Yeah. I saw actually... I don't remember his name, but
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one of the experts that gave testimony who I think
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was a part of the medical, one of those people,
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00:17:33.339 --> 00:17:35.940
no longer works for the, like has been let go
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since giving testimony.
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00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:38.859
Yes, because he was.
377
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Because there's so much, so many people were negligent in
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like how even, honestly, even her, like as there's, I'm
379
00:17:48.910 --> 00:17:52.970
not a medical provider, but everyone is saying the kind of,
380
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.720
how he's saying the medicine was handled and how they
381
00:17:56.740 --> 00:18:03.099
would say, give this to your husband. That seems unreasonable
382
00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:05.099
to me. We're not like, that's wild.
383
00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:08.089
Yeah. You've never had a doctor say, well, stop taking
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00:18:08.230 --> 00:18:12.410
this and you're, you can't be responsible enough to, to
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00:18:13.210 --> 00:18:15.589
get rid of it in a proper way. So give
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00:18:15.609 --> 00:18:17.079
it to your husband and he'll get rid of it.
387
00:18:17.349 --> 00:18:17.829
I've never.
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00:18:17.849 --> 00:18:21.049
It's also my, I didn't get here any, which I
389
00:18:21.089 --> 00:18:23.390
didn't watch all the testimony. So I could be wrong. And,
390
00:18:24.019 --> 00:18:26.509
anyone can feel free to weigh in and correct me,
391
00:18:26.549 --> 00:18:30.289
but that she was abusing her medication. The whole time
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00:18:30.329 --> 00:18:33.170
she was using medication, it was my understanding it was
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to feel better. She was struggling. Struggling. And it's not
394
00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:43.519
like she was abusing and running out of pills before
395
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:44.900
she was supposed to and stuff like that.
396
00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.569
Right. This is somebody who was looking up all of
397
00:18:47.609 --> 00:18:50.190
her medications every time it was prescribed, debating on whether
398
00:18:50.230 --> 00:18:51.990
or not to take it because she wanted to feel better,
399
00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:54.470
but she was still breastfeeding and she was very concerned
400
00:18:54.490 --> 00:18:58.930
about it affecting the baby. So this does not sound
401
00:18:58.950 --> 00:19:01.500
like a person who's going to abuse it. Now, that's
402
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:06.759
not to say that in postpartum psychosis and dealing with
403
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:09.599
everything that she was dealing with, that she couldn't necessarily
404
00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:12.690
have then had a moment where she breaks and decides,
405
00:19:13.109 --> 00:19:14.430
I'm just going to Or.
406
00:19:14.369 --> 00:19:17.720
It's not even, like, even the word decides. It's like, right.
407
00:19:17.900 --> 00:19:20.339
It's like, it fuels outer body. I do believe that
408
00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:23.819
that can happen to people. I'm sure. But what causes questions,
409
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:25.750
so I'm just going to, I guess, one of the
410
00:19:25.769 --> 00:19:27.410
biggest things that stand out in my mind, and you
411
00:19:27.450 --> 00:19:30.740
mentioned her body temperature. Yeah. I think you sent me
412
00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:33.900
a girl, but a medical provider shared online that she
413
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.900
was a different... It was an example to explain body temperature.
414
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:40.569
That there were these two people who crashed from their
415
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:43.269
own little private personal plane.
416
00:19:43.390 --> 00:19:43.950
Into a glacier.
417
00:19:43.970 --> 00:19:46.390
Into a glacier. They sat in glacier water for like
418
00:19:46.410 --> 00:19:49.950
an hour. They were pretty much dead immediately. Their bodies were...
419
00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:55.079
injured like severely severely but they still whenever someone is
420
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:58.019
in that cold of condition try to revive them because
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00:19:58.039 --> 00:19:59.720
sometimes they can be she said which.
422
00:19:59.740 --> 00:20:02.819
Because cold can almost preserve.
423
00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:05.329
And slow down the yeah right yes but they couldn't
424
00:20:05.369 --> 00:20:07.829
revive them. But their body temperatures after sitting in a
425
00:20:07.849 --> 00:20:11.799
water for an hour, glacier water was 87. And so
426
00:20:11.970 --> 00:20:17.779
she's outside for max 30 minutes, 20 to 30 minutes,
427
00:20:17.980 --> 00:20:22.099
and her body temperature is 82. That just scientifically doesn't
428
00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:26.299
make sense. So either the temperature that everyone recorded is wrong,
429
00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:29.559
which I'm like, okay, that seems like a stretch. And
430
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:32.880
it came back at 82 and wasn't like, don't you
431
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.940
think they'd check it again? When I was at visiting
432
00:20:34.980 --> 00:20:39.069
my grandfather in Ohio, they were trying to, he's having
433
00:20:39.089 --> 00:20:42.730
a hard time with his oxygen levels. So this is
434
00:20:42.809 --> 00:20:48.829
just to the point he, we have like an oxygen
435
00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:52.039
reader we can put on his finger and it was low.
436
00:20:52.779 --> 00:20:55.720
And so she called my, my cousin who was there
437
00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:59.269
with me called the nurse. And she was like, I'm sure. Oh,
438
00:20:59.309 --> 00:21:01.369
that's just your equipment. Which, by the way, it's not.
439
00:21:01.529 --> 00:21:03.819
It's their facilities equipment that he keeps in his room.
440
00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:07.920
So she put one on his finger. And she was like, hmm.
441
00:21:09.369 --> 00:21:11.390
Don't you love when they try to tell you you're
442
00:21:11.410 --> 00:21:14.119
stupid and you're like, oh, so I wasn't stupid so
443
00:21:14.130 --> 00:21:15.299
I need you to acknowledge that first.
444
00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:16.839
And so she pulled it off and she like tried
445
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.500
to warm up his finger. She put it back on
446
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:21.960
and then she said, oh, now it's not even reading.
447
00:21:21.980 --> 00:21:24.180
So give him some oxygen. Then she said, let's try
448
00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:26.569
your other finger. So she put the ringer on for
449
00:21:26.589 --> 00:21:29.990
the thing on his finger and she said, oh, I'm
450
00:21:30.009 --> 00:21:32.049
going to go get another piece of equipment. And my
451
00:21:32.089 --> 00:21:34.970
cousin who I love my cousin, she's one of like
452
00:21:35.630 --> 00:21:38.279
my favorite people. She was like, What does it say?
453
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:40.059
And she said, I'm going to get something else to
454
00:21:40.099 --> 00:21:42.160
try it. She said, but what does it say? And
455
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:45.420
she said, I wouldn't even trust it. And meanwhile, my
456
00:21:45.460 --> 00:21:46.269
grandfather is like.
457
00:21:46.289 --> 00:21:48.809
Give him some oxygen!
458
00:21:49.069 --> 00:21:52.569
And so she brought something else in and had pretty
459
00:21:52.609 --> 00:21:54.529
much the same reaction.
460
00:21:54.549 --> 00:21:56.829
In the meantime, it's been how many minutes now? And
461
00:21:56.849 --> 00:21:58.019
he's struggling to breathe?
462
00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:02.029
So... He had oxygen and she turned up his oxygen tank.
463
00:22:02.049 --> 00:22:05.359
But the point being, when it was so low, you
464
00:22:05.380 --> 00:22:08.880
didn't just jot it down. So if you're a medical
465
00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.660
professional and someone's core body temperature says 82 and you think, oh,
466
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.900
how is this possible? This is so unusual. She's alive.
467
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:19.869
She was only outside for that. Wouldn't you double check? Well,
468
00:22:19.910 --> 00:22:20.670
you're going.
469
00:22:20.450 --> 00:22:22.630
To have people checking on the scene. You're going to
470
00:22:22.650 --> 00:22:24.750
have people checking again in the ambulance. You're going to
471
00:22:24.789 --> 00:22:27.539
have people checking when you get to the emergency room.
472
00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:31.109
So that obvious, there was no question. There was nobody
473
00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:34.730
ever on either side posing the question of, was that
474
00:22:34.809 --> 00:22:38.809
body temperature inaccurate? Right. So that body temperature was accurate
475
00:22:39.130 --> 00:22:41.339
and it was 30 ish degrees outside. So it was
476
00:22:41.410 --> 00:22:43.079
not below freezing.
477
00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:49.299
Yeah. So then they were able to revive a heartbeat
478
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:53.329
and one of the children and that, so this to
479
00:22:53.380 --> 00:22:56.730
me is like something that you talk about beyond reasonable doubt.
480
00:22:56.829 --> 00:22:59.450
This brings to me reasonable doubt that she did it
481
00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:02.789
because for her to have inflicted the wounds on herself,
482
00:23:02.970 --> 00:23:05.650
which if you guys are listening and you happen to
483
00:23:05.730 --> 00:23:09.029
not know about the case, but you're interested, you know,
484
00:23:09.049 --> 00:23:12.150
we gave a warning in the beginning. She, she was
485
00:23:12.210 --> 00:23:12.599
a nurse.
486
00:23:12.670 --> 00:23:16.259
So already the labor and delivery nurse. So already, you know,
487
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:17.500
she knows.
488
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:22.579
Things about, about the body. Yeah. She tried to, slit
489
00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:24.440
her wrist, but she did it the wrong.
490
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:28.420
Horizontally, not vertically. Exactly. Which vertically would be the guaranteed way.
491
00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:33.869
Right. I even know that. Like, I think that's understood anyways.
492
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:38.890
And tried to slit her throat, but did it from
493
00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:43.430
a way that would be... Like, it wouldn't make sense
494
00:23:43.490 --> 00:23:45.670
for her. I think she's right-handed. She's right-handed. Yeah, and
495
00:23:45.740 --> 00:23:47.880
it would be like if she was using her left
496
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:49.619
hand to try to do it. I think it was.
497
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:53.099
Yeah, the carotid was attempted to be cut.
498
00:23:53.420 --> 00:23:57.720
Uh-huh. So, that's strange. But to do all of that,
499
00:23:58.829 --> 00:24:01.549
to take the whatever pills she took, which.
500
00:24:02.049 --> 00:24:04.910
Well, I want to point out something about that. Unless
501
00:24:04.930 --> 00:24:06.069
you want to keep going in the wrong circle.
502
00:24:06.109 --> 00:24:06.869
No, I think it's fine to, yeah.
503
00:24:07.750 --> 00:24:11.150
So, Patrick says on the stand that he went up
504
00:24:11.190 --> 00:24:14.240
to the room... He had been calling around the house
505
00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:17.859
trying to find them. Nobody was responding. Goes up to
506
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:20.079
the room. The room is locked. That's when he knew
507
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:23.299
something was wrong. He then grabs... So apparently the bedroom
508
00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:28.119
door locks from the outside. Super weird to me. The
509
00:24:28.180 --> 00:24:30.950
master bedroom or the primary bedroom, whatever you call it,
510
00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:35.220
locks from the outside. That makes me wonder, was she
511
00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:37.099
being locked in the room? But that's conspiracy. So let
512
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:38.480
me not go... All we know is it was locked
513
00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:42.099
from the outside. He grabbed the... key from the room
514
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:45.259
i remember hearing that he grabbed it from cora's room
515
00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:47.440
which was the daughter's room the five-year-old so like why
516
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:50.190
is the key in the five-year-old daughter's but anyways he
517
00:24:50.289 --> 00:24:53.750
opens the door sees all the blood sees the window
518
00:24:53.930 --> 00:24:56.750
open they asked him if he went in he said
519
00:24:57.029 --> 00:25:02.609
no hmm sir i have questions then how do you
520
00:25:02.730 --> 00:25:04.750
know that on the other side of the room where
521
00:25:04.769 --> 00:25:07.190
the nightstand is and there's a cup that there's crushed
522
00:25:07.230 --> 00:25:10.410
up pills in it right How do you know she
523
00:25:10.630 --> 00:25:14.009
crushed up pills and took crushed up pills? You never
524
00:25:14.049 --> 00:25:14.690
went in the room.
525
00:25:15.190 --> 00:25:17.789
Right. Yeah.
526
00:25:17.950 --> 00:25:19.869
I mean, this, and I know, listen, I know there
527
00:25:19.930 --> 00:25:20.849
are a lot of people that are going to be
528
00:25:20.869 --> 00:25:23.839
very angry at us right now. I'm literally just, I'm not,
529
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:27.140
I want justice for those children as well, but I
530
00:25:27.259 --> 00:25:29.660
also want somebody to make it make sense to me.
531
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:32.980
There's a lot of holes in the story. And then
532
00:25:33.259 --> 00:25:35.559
if you're talking about a murder case and you're telling
533
00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:38.470
this mother who is visibly sobbing her eyes out the
534
00:25:38.509 --> 00:25:41.470
whole trial. And the dad doesn't even fucking show emotion
535
00:25:41.730 --> 00:25:46.220
one time. I have real doubt. And then it's like,
536
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.799
oh yeah. And, and there were crushed up pills in there.
537
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:50.259
They never tested the cup.
538
00:25:51.700 --> 00:25:52.009
Right.
539
00:25:52.289 --> 00:25:52.569
That's.
540
00:25:53.170 --> 00:25:53.349
What?
541
00:25:54.309 --> 00:25:58.450
Like, it bothers me because I don't like to go
542
00:25:58.490 --> 00:26:01.410
down the conspiracy theory route. But then you realize he
543
00:26:01.450 --> 00:26:05.160
had ties to a lot of these officers and medical people.
544
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:06.539
And you're like, so how do.
545
00:26:06.500 --> 00:26:08.680
You go in? Is this why he wasn't questioned? Yeah.
546
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.339
Like, how was the cup not taken from the room
547
00:26:11.380 --> 00:26:13.480
and fingerprinted? And he told you there were crushed up
548
00:26:13.500 --> 00:26:15.420
pills in it. Why didn't you test to see what
549
00:26:15.460 --> 00:26:18.549
crushed up pills were in it? Keep going. And I'll
550
00:26:18.569 --> 00:26:19.730
just rant when I want to rant.
551
00:26:20.150 --> 00:26:23.609
So, if she did all of... If the story that
552
00:26:23.650 --> 00:26:25.839
the prosecution is trying to say, she did all of that,
553
00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:29.579
which also... And then... I don't know if it's possible.
554
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:34.480
Don't go out the window. And... not try to catch herself,
555
00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:37.480
which is part of why she had the injuries that
556
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.420
she did because she basically just landed on her head.
557
00:26:40.460 --> 00:26:41.009
And then fell.
558
00:26:41.029 --> 00:26:45.910
It is physically impossible. Your body, even if you don't
559
00:26:45.950 --> 00:26:50.450
want to, is going to try to catch itself. But, okay,
560
00:26:50.490 --> 00:26:53.259
if all of that happened, I don't think it's within
561
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.599
the amount of time that they could revive the heartbeat of,
562
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.119
I forget which child it was.
563
00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:00.059
It was the youngest, I think.
564
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:05.079
But, reviving that child's heartbeat um right in that amount
565
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.200
of time because the longest it can go i think
566
00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:12.400
they say usually like not usually but safe to say
567
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.930
30 minutes that can happen absolute max would be 45
568
00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:17.160
40 40 45 would be like a one in a
569
00:27:17.180 --> 00:27:25.589
million or something like that and so the timeline based
570
00:27:25.710 --> 00:27:28.690
on when he sent the email to when she was
571
00:27:28.750 --> 00:27:32.430
found to when that child was got a heartbeat which
572
00:27:32.970 --> 00:27:35.609
there was no brain activity so they all ended up
573
00:27:35.650 --> 00:27:41.039
not making it but that's that that calls for question that.
574
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:44.720
Calls for question another thing that calls for question and
575
00:27:44.859 --> 00:27:46.519
i don't have a stat you guys i did not
576
00:27:46.539 --> 00:27:49.339
look this up but i've said this to you and
577
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.450
i'm i'm not being um I'm going to kind of
578
00:27:52.470 --> 00:27:54.589
say it jokingly, but also I understand that this is
579
00:27:54.609 --> 00:27:57.009
a very serious topic. I've never heard of somebody trying
580
00:27:57.029 --> 00:27:59.430
to do like 10 things at once to unalive themselves.
581
00:27:59.869 --> 00:28:02.259
Like I crushed up the pills. I took those pills,
582
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.200
but oh, that didn't work fast enough. So now I'm
583
00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:06.200
slitting my wrist. That didn't work fast enough. Now I'm
584
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:09.000
cutting my carotid. That didn't work fast enough. Let me
585
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:12.119
dive out the window. How many things are you trying
586
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:12.440
to do?
587
00:28:12.460 --> 00:28:14.339
It doesn't make sense to me. If I'm sitting here
588
00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:17.180
playing devil's advocate, the only thing I would think is
589
00:28:18.019 --> 00:28:22.789
if she was thinking– If that was what happened, the
590
00:28:22.950 --> 00:28:25.109
only reason I would think is if she was like,
591
00:28:25.430 --> 00:28:28.880
Patrick's going to get home soon, I have to end this.
592
00:28:29.420 --> 00:28:32.000
But I also feel like with the amount of drugs
593
00:28:32.019 --> 00:28:35.480
that were in her system, that kind of thought wouldn't
594
00:28:35.500 --> 00:28:39.480
have been as present. Right. gave testimony to the fact
595
00:28:39.500 --> 00:28:41.480
it would be very hard to function at all. Right.
596
00:28:41.619 --> 00:28:43.700
The one medication, it starts with an S. I'm not
597
00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:46.079
going to pronounce it properly, but there's been multiple people
598
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:49.640
saying like, oh, I was prescribed that. And within five minutes,
599
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:52.769
I passed out. One person was like, oh, I heard
600
00:28:52.809 --> 00:28:54.390
it really messes you up. And so I took it
601
00:28:54.450 --> 00:28:56.769
kind of at a higher dose. And like, I literally
602
00:28:56.809 --> 00:28:59.589
couldn't even blink my eyes. Like I couldn't move. It
603
00:28:59.630 --> 00:29:02.910
was like an out-of-body experience, which she talked about. It
604
00:29:02.950 --> 00:29:06.670
felt like watching herself doing it, which again leads to
605
00:29:06.690 --> 00:29:11.339
some conspiracy theories, which I do want to kind of.
606
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.980
But the timeline, yes, it does not add up for
607
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.880
unaliving your babies. We also know that men are more
608
00:29:23.109 --> 00:29:27.789
likely to commit violent acts than women. Men are more
609
00:29:27.849 --> 00:29:31.140
likely to be the ones to commit them against the
610
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:34.869
family like that. Again, I don't have that stat, but
611
00:29:34.869 --> 00:29:37.329
I did hear it in the whole process. But um
612
00:29:38.390 --> 00:29:43.289
things just don't add up and yeah about like you
613
00:29:43.329 --> 00:29:45.730
said the timeline of when thing even if you give
614
00:29:45.750 --> 00:29:48.660
it the even if you give it the most breath
615
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:52.319
of like oh he left at the 515 when he
616
00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:54.559
said he did even though the message from the surface
617
00:29:54.579 --> 00:29:57.400
pro went at 523 and okay, you give him back
618
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:00.630
those few minutes. Oh, you got home at this time.
619
00:30:00.690 --> 00:30:02.990
Like this was the latest you could have got there
620
00:30:03.009 --> 00:30:06.029
by the time the 911 call was made. It was
621
00:30:06.049 --> 00:30:06.690
like an hour.
622
00:30:07.289 --> 00:30:11.630
Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't make sense to me. And
623
00:30:12.339 --> 00:30:16.140
also if he can have, and I, I, all of this,
624
00:30:16.180 --> 00:30:19.839
I really do feel the weight of God. If he,
625
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.380
if it actually is like what he said, he made
626
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:26.160
mistakes in his testimony because he was in a, like
627
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:28.650
frantic state or whatever, I feel really bad for him
628
00:30:28.690 --> 00:30:32.490
because this has not, this whole experience does not look good.
629
00:30:32.769 --> 00:30:36.670
Like the, he, the public, has questions for him that
630
00:30:36.690 --> 00:30:39.440
they want answered, you know? But I do think it's
631
00:30:39.460 --> 00:30:41.559
good for us to talk about it because this is basically,
632
00:30:41.859 --> 00:30:43.640
we weren't in the courtroom, but this is the point
633
00:30:43.660 --> 00:30:46.859
of a jury. People have to talk about and ask
634
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.029
the questions and see how they feel and how it
635
00:30:49.049 --> 00:30:51.390
lands on them. And to me, if he can be
636
00:30:51.430 --> 00:30:53.890
so specific to remember from across the room, if he
637
00:30:53.930 --> 00:30:55.589
didn't go in the room, that there were crushed up
638
00:30:55.630 --> 00:30:59.569
pills in the drink, but he gave an incorrect account
639
00:30:59.589 --> 00:31:02.640
of Of when he went down into the basement, where
640
00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:04.710
he went first and who he found first.
641
00:31:05.210 --> 00:31:05.349
Right.
642
00:31:05.390 --> 00:31:07.869
And to me, like, how can you be so specific
643
00:31:07.910 --> 00:31:09.930
about something you just saw across the room, but then
644
00:31:09.970 --> 00:31:11.490
you get that totally wrong.
645
00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:15.869
Right. Also, I'm just going to say this as a parent. Okay.
646
00:31:15.910 --> 00:31:18.710
You get home. Cause he's saying she was a great mom.
647
00:31:18.750 --> 00:31:21.829
Everything was like, yes, she was struggling, but in general
648
00:31:21.869 --> 00:31:24.069
he did like, no one was alluding that they were
649
00:31:24.190 --> 00:31:26.710
struggling in their marriage or anything like that. So you
650
00:31:26.730 --> 00:31:29.509
get home, you open the door. You see the bedroom
651
00:31:29.769 --> 00:31:32.609
full of blood. You see the window open. Okay, so
652
00:31:32.650 --> 00:31:35.730
now I'm going to put on my significant other slash
653
00:31:35.789 --> 00:31:38.069
parent hat. At this point, I would think you would
654
00:31:38.089 --> 00:31:40.650
be screaming, running through the house, screaming, yelling for the kids,
655
00:31:40.750 --> 00:31:43.319
running to the back door. You find her outside. Oh
656
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:45.079
my God, oh my God, oh my God, you're calling 911.
657
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:47.339
Now we didn't get to hear the 911 tape, so
658
00:31:47.380 --> 00:31:51.660
we don't know what that was like. But supposedly he said,
659
00:31:52.259 --> 00:31:55.339
what did you do? First of all, that wouldn't be
660
00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:58.819
my question to my significant other if I find them
661
00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:01.630
laying outside bloody and barely.
662
00:32:02.069 --> 00:32:03.349
What happened? Yeah.
663
00:32:03.529 --> 00:32:06.289
What happened would be my question because I would think
664
00:32:06.309 --> 00:32:07.829
that somebody came in and attacked them.
665
00:32:08.150 --> 00:32:08.390
Right.
666
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:12.859
But his question was, what did you do? You automatically
667
00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:17.849
assigned blame to her. She's laying there half alive and
668
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.609
you're not, oh my God, what happened?
669
00:32:19.630 --> 00:32:20.329
What happened? What happened?
670
00:32:20.809 --> 00:32:23.730
Then supposedly she tells you the kids are in the basement,
671
00:32:24.269 --> 00:32:27.569
but where her body is, is next to the basement door.
672
00:32:27.789 --> 00:32:31.890
The light is on. And he stays outside trying to
673
00:32:31.910 --> 00:32:34.849
call 911 with her, knowing that you have an eight
674
00:32:34.890 --> 00:32:37.500
month old I know there's a five-year-old and I think
675
00:32:37.539 --> 00:32:40.789
the other child was maybe three-ish in the middle. I
676
00:32:40.809 --> 00:32:42.849
think the other one was three in the middle. So
677
00:32:42.869 --> 00:32:45.950
you have an eight-month-old, a three-year-old, and a five-year-old inside
678
00:32:45.990 --> 00:32:48.910
the house. You don't know how long she's been laying
679
00:32:48.970 --> 00:32:51.819
out there. A five-year-old is not equipped to take care
680
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:52.599
of an eight-month-old.
681
00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:53.140
Right.
682
00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:56.480
Or a three-year-old. You know you've been gone for an
683
00:32:56.519 --> 00:33:01.289
hour and you're not... I understand being torn maybe about like,
684
00:33:01.329 --> 00:33:04.099
what do I do? But the window is right there. Yeah.
685
00:33:04.339 --> 00:33:06.839
You're not looking in. You're not calling that. I'll be
686
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:10.259
right back. Running in, checking on the babies. He stayed
687
00:33:10.339 --> 00:33:13.640
out there until the paramedics got there. That to me
688
00:33:13.660 --> 00:33:16.099
does not fucking add up. I didn't think that he did.
689
00:33:16.180 --> 00:33:19.880
I thought they found him. Because I think on the
690
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:21.859
911 call, they hear him find the kids.
691
00:33:22.349 --> 00:33:25.670
Okay, I'm not entirely sure because the way I understood
692
00:33:25.730 --> 00:33:29.289
it was he said, because he even said he regrets
693
00:33:29.369 --> 00:33:33.809
not going in sooner. Like those were 10 valuable minutes.
694
00:33:34.049 --> 00:33:36.380
Because I think what happened was when the paramedics got
695
00:33:36.410 --> 00:33:37.839
there and started working on her.
696
00:33:37.859 --> 00:33:38.640
He ran.
697
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:43.220
He went inside, found them, and then they heard him say,
698
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:46.000
oh my God, she effing killed the kids.
699
00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:46.480
Uh-huh.
700
00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:50.599
And then they came in and he was taking the
701
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.519
things off of them. Yeah. That's the way I understood it.
702
00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:58.160
I could be... Don't kill me. I'm not saying I
703
00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:01.859
could be wrong on how I understood it. But I
704
00:34:01.900 --> 00:34:04.529
believe in his testimony or somewhere in there he said...
705
00:34:04.329 --> 00:34:05.130
Wish I.
706
00:34:05.069 --> 00:34:06.029
Would have gone sooner.
707
00:34:06.049 --> 00:34:08.309
Wish I would have went sooner. And I'm like, in
708
00:34:08.369 --> 00:34:12.969
what world? In what world didn't you go sooner? There's
709
00:34:13.050 --> 00:34:15.110
so many... I mean, there's all the things with the
710
00:34:15.739 --> 00:34:17.960
shoes between CVS and the restaurant.
711
00:34:18.099 --> 00:34:20.559
And I really don't understand that. So the biggest thing
712
00:34:20.619 --> 00:34:25.219
about that is just... Because it's supposed to be the
713
00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:26.400
same errand, right?
714
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:26.559
Yeah.
715
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.300
So he went to CVS and then he went to
716
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:31.460
the restaurant to pick up the food. But he has
717
00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:34.239
different shoes on. And a different jacket. And a different
718
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:37.639
jacket in the surveillance videos. Did any explanation ever come
719
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:38.090
from that?
720
00:34:38.489 --> 00:34:40.449
No. And you know how you said at the beginning, like,
721
00:34:40.469 --> 00:34:42.150
there's only certain questions they can ask?
722
00:34:42.289 --> 00:34:42.610
Yeah.
723
00:34:42.630 --> 00:34:43.789
So he's not on trial.
724
00:34:44.050 --> 00:34:44.309
Right.
725
00:34:44.590 --> 00:34:48.230
So Reddington has to be very careful about what he
726
00:34:48.309 --> 00:34:52.449
presents and how he presents it. Because he's trying to...
727
00:34:53.369 --> 00:34:56.929
prove not even that she didn't do it even though
728
00:34:56.949 --> 00:34:58.550
i believe he was trying to prove that she didn't
729
00:34:58.590 --> 00:34:59.329
do it like.
730
00:34:59.550 --> 00:35:01.309
He was planting reasonable he.
731
00:35:01.219 --> 00:35:05.500
Was planting reasonable doubt because they're like oh she admitted
732
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:08.199
to it well no actually when she entered her pleas
733
00:35:08.500 --> 00:35:10.840
she entered all of her pleas is not guilty i
734
00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:12.780
think there probably was one point i don't know if
735
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:14.679
it was in the hospital or whatever that she said
736
00:35:14.739 --> 00:35:17.800
she did it there was some point before the trial
737
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:20.920
where i think she thinks she did it yeah But
738
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.130
if you're in psychosis or if you're heavily medicated and
739
00:35:24.150 --> 00:35:28.130
you're having an out-of-body watching something, but it looks like you,
740
00:35:28.150 --> 00:35:35.280
and that's where I'll go conspiracy theory in a second. But, like, also,
741
00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:37.739
she landed on her head. Like, she was in a
742
00:35:37.780 --> 00:35:40.340
coma for days. Like, if you wake up and they
743
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:42.059
say you killed the kids, like, then you think you
744
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:42.659
killed the kids.
745
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:47.420
That's my thing. Like, I don't understand how– you know,
746
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.349
on such a different level– Every one of us, I think,
747
00:35:51.469 --> 00:35:55.159
have memories, sometimes it's from childhood memories, where it's half
748
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:58.699
our memory and half our brain filling in the gaps.
749
00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:08.019
And I think someone in psychosis, it's not out of
750
00:36:08.059 --> 00:36:11.960
the realm of possibility for them to adopt the story
751
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.619
that they're told is what happened, especially when they're in
752
00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:20.780
such a fragile state. Right. So I don't know. Well,
753
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.019
I do have a question that's a little different than
754
00:36:23.059 --> 00:36:27.599
the way we're talking about it. Yeah, go ahead. Let's
755
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:35.739
say she did it. Okay. What responsibility do you think
756
00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:41.380
that the medication and medical providers... Because I think even
757
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:46.320
if she did, there is still room for... I don't believe,
758
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.619
like the prosecution was saying, that she wanted him to
759
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.099
leave and was planning it the whole time so that
760
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:57.360
she could strategically. I think if she did it, she snapped,
761
00:36:57.420 --> 00:36:59.719
had a break, and it was a psychotic break.
762
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:02.380
Yeah. So if we're playing devil's advocate and we're saying,
763
00:37:02.699 --> 00:37:07.019
if she did do it, then where is the responsibility?
764
00:37:08.500 --> 00:37:12.070
Don't get me wrong. Again, it's horrific and that needs
765
00:37:12.150 --> 00:37:16.619
to be handled. But at the same time, I think
766
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:20.539
the way we neglect women's health and women's mental health,
767
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:22.179
and it's not, this is not like a made up
768
00:37:22.219 --> 00:37:25.409
mental health. If you actually look at what happens to
769
00:37:25.449 --> 00:37:28.469
women's hormones, like once all throughout our lives, when we
770
00:37:28.510 --> 00:37:30.929
go through puberty and the spikes that we're having and
771
00:37:30.949 --> 00:37:33.570
the drop-offs, every time we get our period and how
772
00:37:33.650 --> 00:37:37.130
our estrogen, our progesterone go up and then they crash down.
773
00:37:37.170 --> 00:37:38.829
And then when you have your baby and how much
774
00:37:38.969 --> 00:37:43.849
estrogen you lose in 24 hours, like Again, don't quote
775
00:37:43.869 --> 00:37:45.130
me on this. I really should have pulled some of
776
00:37:45.170 --> 00:37:48.260
these stats up and wrote them down. But it's like
777
00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:53.460
an insane percentage that if it happened to guys with testosterone,
778
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:56.000
it would age you like 150 years and it would
779
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:58.860
take like an entire lifetime to try to build that
780
00:37:58.940 --> 00:38:03.659
amount back up. Hormones mess with your fucking psychology. And
781
00:38:03.699 --> 00:38:08.409
like it is just like we're expected to essentially have
782
00:38:08.469 --> 00:38:11.389
the baby, go through all this labor, pain and delivery.
783
00:38:11.409 --> 00:38:14.489
A lot of women do this naturally. So let me
784
00:38:14.530 --> 00:38:16.949
just give you a little background. So they have assigned
785
00:38:17.010 --> 00:38:21.949
certain actual number value to pain and the pain women
786
00:38:21.989 --> 00:38:26.840
experience during childbirth. Breaking 20 bones at once, I think
787
00:38:26.860 --> 00:38:28.340
they put it at like a pain level of like
788
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.940
a 42, which is where you should black out because
789
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:35.380
the body is naturally trying to protect itself. Women's pain,
790
00:38:36.380 --> 00:38:39.650
the level, the rating they've given it during childbirth is
791
00:38:39.710 --> 00:38:40.469
a 57.
792
00:38:40.469 --> 00:38:40.670
Wow.
793
00:38:41.469 --> 00:38:45.500
And we stay awake and we keep pushing. Now, some
794
00:38:45.539 --> 00:38:48.510
women obviously get drugs to help with that, but not
795
00:38:48.570 --> 00:38:51.130
everybody does. A lot of women do it all natural.
796
00:38:51.530 --> 00:38:53.190
And then as soon as we push that baby out,
797
00:38:53.750 --> 00:38:57.809
you're not sent away to go rest and recover for
798
00:38:57.849 --> 00:39:01.030
a month. They slap that baby on your chest, which
799
00:39:01.110 --> 00:39:02.949
obviously you want to, you want to, and now you're
800
00:39:03.130 --> 00:39:05.789
producing milk and you're being told you got to breastfeed
801
00:39:05.809 --> 00:39:08.150
and you're hoping that your boobs produce the milk and
802
00:39:08.170 --> 00:39:10.769
the baby is crying and you're exhausted. Like who knows
803
00:39:10.809 --> 00:39:12.630
how long your labor was. You got a giant hole
804
00:39:12.670 --> 00:39:14.989
basically inside your body because you just delivered the baby
805
00:39:15.070 --> 00:39:19.690
and the placenta. Your hormones are crashing out literally. And
806
00:39:19.750 --> 00:39:21.739
now you're about to be sleep deprived for the next
807
00:39:21.929 --> 00:39:24.119
eight months. Some moms have to go back to work
808
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:26.159
afterwards or they have other kids at home. So you're
809
00:39:26.179 --> 00:39:29.179
trying to manage all that. And it's just expected that
810
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:32.800
we're supposed to be superheroes and just fucking handle it. Again, no,
811
00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:35.920
don't get me wrong. We love it. We love being mom.
812
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:37.659
We want to be there. We want to do the best.
813
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:41.900
We're stressed about how good of a parent we're going
814
00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:43.639
to be and all these things that you have to
815
00:39:44.199 --> 00:39:44.760
fear for.
816
00:39:45.699 --> 00:39:45.940
Yeah.
817
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:48.230
But it's just not talked about enough. And so this
818
00:39:48.309 --> 00:39:50.750
woman is saying, I'm struggling.
819
00:39:50.949 --> 00:39:51.250
Yes.
820
00:39:51.929 --> 00:39:54.710
Over and over. This is not somebody who was like
821
00:39:54.769 --> 00:39:56.590
trying to cover up what they were dealing with.
822
00:39:56.989 --> 00:39:57.250
Right.
823
00:39:57.550 --> 00:40:03.300
She was begging for help. So it makes me mad
824
00:40:03.340 --> 00:40:05.940
that she didn't get the help that she needed, both
825
00:40:06.380 --> 00:40:12.139
professionally from the medical industry and from her family. Hey, husband,
826
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:13.619
you work from home.
827
00:40:14.190 --> 00:40:14.489
Yeah.
828
00:40:14.570 --> 00:40:19.510
Step up. Hey, family, come step up. Now, I think
829
00:40:19.550 --> 00:40:21.719
it sounds like her parents came a few times and
830
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:26.000
maybe his mom, but this is sort of... You know
831
00:40:26.019 --> 00:40:27.679
how I know you're super into the blue zones right now?
832
00:40:27.900 --> 00:40:28.139
Yeah.
833
00:40:29.019 --> 00:40:32.480
This is where community and the community we used to
834
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:35.119
have around us that we don't so much have anymore matters.
835
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:35.820
Totally.
836
00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:39.280
Because women used to have the support of... your mom,
837
00:40:39.349 --> 00:40:42.610
your aunts, your sisters, your friends, everybody's showing up and
838
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:45.139
stepping in so that you could.
839
00:40:44.699 --> 00:40:49.800
Be recover and yeah, have, breathe. You can breathe.
840
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.980
And now it's like, oh, you're exhausted and your hormones
841
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:55.280
are bodying out and you're dealing with postpartum and you
842
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:58.559
literally go get yourself checked in. And they say, hey,
843
00:40:58.780 --> 00:41:01.139
actually the doctors have put you on so many meds
844
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:03.199
that we don't know if this is postpartum or if
845
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:05.610
this is side effects of the meds. So we can't
846
00:41:05.690 --> 00:41:07.989
help you. They didn't say, we're gonna check you in.
847
00:41:08.050 --> 00:41:10.309
We gotta wean you off these meds so we can
848
00:41:10.449 --> 00:41:13.409
see what the problem is. They said, call your husband
849
00:41:13.429 --> 00:41:15.820
to come get you. we can't help you.
850
00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:16.429
Yeah.
851
00:41:17.329 --> 00:41:21.289
I think there's malpractice there. Yeah.
852
00:41:21.769 --> 00:41:24.989
Well, I do think there's a civil case happening.
853
00:41:25.010 --> 00:41:26.750
A doctor's oath is first do no harm.
854
00:41:26.769 --> 00:41:31.079
Well, that's the hard thing about medicine because one medicine
855
00:41:31.099 --> 00:41:35.039
that can help another person quite a bit can really
856
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:38.780
have the opposite effect on another person. And it's, I
857
00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:44.750
think it, The most important thing is people are made
858
00:41:44.809 --> 00:41:49.130
to feel insecure sometimes if their body's not responding the
859
00:41:49.150 --> 00:41:54.679
way that someone would expect it to. Or, you know,
860
00:41:54.969 --> 00:41:56.820
you know your body and you really do need to
861
00:41:56.860 --> 00:42:00.780
be your biggest advocate. And it does sound like from
862
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:02.900
what I know, she was trying to do that. But
863
00:42:02.940 --> 00:42:06.820
just for anyone, it's like, can we please... And I feel,
864
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:09.679
I always say I'm a feminist and I hate the
865
00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:15.539
way that society... brushes off women's emotions sometimes or whatever. Yeah,
866
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:16.239
you're just emotional.
867
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:16.969
You're just hormonal.
868
00:42:17.010 --> 00:42:21.090
You're just tired. It's bullshit. And it's like also women
869
00:42:21.110 --> 00:42:24.230
know their bodies and they know when something's off. Everyone knows.
870
00:42:25.420 --> 00:42:29.639
of any gender has mood swings or like emotional moments
871
00:42:29.780 --> 00:42:34.039
and days. And so it's a really sexist, didn't mean
872
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:35.780
to get out of the soapbox, but it's a sexist
873
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:38.760
fucking thing to say, Oh, you're, you're, that's because you're
874
00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:41.909
a woman or stop acting like a girl or, you know, um,
875
00:42:43.730 --> 00:42:47.070
because actually I think women are the strongest of the,
876
00:42:47.530 --> 00:42:48.769
of the human species.
877
00:42:48.949 --> 00:42:56.809
I agree. Well, like, She's asking for help. Nobody is
878
00:42:56.909 --> 00:42:58.050
giving it to her.
879
00:42:58.329 --> 00:42:58.650
Yeah.
880
00:42:59.309 --> 00:43:03.210
And like I said, I'm not like going, oh my God,
881
00:43:03.230 --> 00:43:05.489
these doctors are horrible people. That's not what I'm saying
882
00:43:05.630 --> 00:43:08.039
because I understand that they're trying. But like I said,
883
00:43:08.059 --> 00:43:10.239
when it's like first do no harm and then you're
884
00:43:11.340 --> 00:43:16.539
sending her away with no real help or solution and
885
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:20.909
they kept changing her medications over and over and over again.
886
00:43:20.949 --> 00:43:22.750
Like, Yeah.
887
00:43:22.789 --> 00:43:24.409
At a certain point, we have to understand, like, you're
888
00:43:24.449 --> 00:43:25.699
just playing chemistry now.
889
00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:26.539
Yeah.
890
00:43:26.579 --> 00:43:29.539
With somebody. You're not even giving them a chance. Like,
891
00:43:29.619 --> 00:43:31.679
it was like every three days, like, at a certain point,
892
00:43:31.699 --> 00:43:33.440
you were looking at, like, oh, try this one. Oh, no,
893
00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:36.179
try this one. And it was like, oh, my God,
894
00:43:36.219 --> 00:43:38.300
you're not even giving her body a chance.
895
00:43:38.500 --> 00:43:38.780
Yeah.
896
00:43:39.699 --> 00:43:42.940
To adapt to it and figure out if it is
897
00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:46.389
working or if it's not working. And I had another
898
00:43:46.429 --> 00:43:47.530
point that I was going to make about it, and
899
00:43:47.550 --> 00:43:48.809
I totally lost it while you were talking.
900
00:43:48.849 --> 00:43:49.590
I'm sure it'll come back.
901
00:43:49.650 --> 00:43:52.320
It'll come back, but. Well, the other thing I was
902
00:43:52.340 --> 00:43:56.449
going to say was, okay, so we talked about the
903
00:43:57.349 --> 00:44:01.750
medical field a little bit. At what point, even if she, again,
904
00:44:01.769 --> 00:44:03.690
we're playing devil's advocate, let's say she did do it.
905
00:44:04.730 --> 00:44:10.340
At what point is the husband responsible for involuntary manslaughter?
906
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:14.139
Because if you look up the definition of involuntary manslaughter,
907
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:16.920
which hold on, I'm going to do really quick because
908
00:44:17.380 --> 00:44:19.619
I want to read it to you and I want
909
00:44:19.659 --> 00:44:20.550
to know what your opinion is.
910
00:44:21.929 --> 00:44:24.090
If I could spell. Don't ask me for help.
911
00:44:25.130 --> 00:44:26.409
I was just like, you know when you're typing and
912
00:44:26.429 --> 00:44:30.670
you're like, wait, what? Okay. The unlawful and unintentional killing
913
00:44:30.789 --> 00:44:37.590
of another person resulting from criminal negligence, recklessness, or during
914
00:44:37.610 --> 00:44:41.059
the commission of a low-level unlawful act. But it says,
915
00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:46.059
key elements, no intent. The death is completely accidental or unintended.
916
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:49.809
Now remember, I'm talking about the dad. Yeah. Criminal negligence.
917
00:44:49.949 --> 00:44:54.360
The offender acts with a severe, reckless disregard for human
918
00:44:54.420 --> 00:44:59.239
life or standard safety going far beyond ordinary civil negligence.
919
00:45:00.340 --> 00:45:02.400
Unlawful or dangerous act. It can occur while doing a
920
00:45:02.420 --> 00:45:07.730
legal act dangerously without caution. That's not it. But I
921
00:45:07.769 --> 00:45:10.659
think when you talk about no intent but criminal negligence
922
00:45:10.900 --> 00:45:14.599
being the offender acts with a severe reckless disregard for
923
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:18.920
human life or standard safety far beyond ordinary civil negligence. Again,
924
00:45:19.300 --> 00:45:23.380
I didn't actually do enough law school to know. But
925
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:25.650
I got to say, like, so your wife– oh, I
926
00:45:25.670 --> 00:45:29.889
know what I was going to say. It's already– if
927
00:45:29.909 --> 00:45:33.489
somebody is having those thoughts of unaliving themselves or harming
928
00:45:33.889 --> 00:45:37.070
others– How scary must that be to even have to
929
00:45:37.150 --> 00:45:40.280
say it? To even have to say? Like, how much
930
00:45:40.300 --> 00:45:43.760
of a bad place do you have to be? Because
931
00:45:44.219 --> 00:45:46.059
you know what kind of taboo that is. You know
932
00:45:46.099 --> 00:45:48.559
that if you say that, you could lose your kids immediately.
933
00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:53.960
You could be locked up forever. Like, you know? Going
934
00:45:54.019 --> 00:45:59.059
and voluntarily checking yourself into a mental hospital is... you
935
00:45:59.099 --> 00:46:00.719
don't know if they're going to let you out. You
936
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:02.659
don't get, that's not one where you could just sign
937
00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:05.650
yourself out. It's not rehab. If they determine that you're
938
00:46:05.670 --> 00:46:09.929
a threat to yourself or somebody else, you're effed. You're
939
00:46:09.969 --> 00:46:12.309
not seeing your babies again. So the fact that she's
940
00:46:12.329 --> 00:46:15.219
already saying, I'm in such a bad place, I actually
941
00:46:15.260 --> 00:46:17.860
need to go here and get help. She's trying to
942
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:22.840
remove herself from the situation. So how responsible is he
943
00:46:22.900 --> 00:46:23.239
for not.
944
00:46:25.579 --> 00:46:27.780
Taking her that seriously and being more present.
945
00:46:27.820 --> 00:46:30.010
Taking her that seriously, being more present, or making sure
946
00:46:30.050 --> 00:46:32.170
that she didn't have to be alone because they fired
947
00:46:32.210 --> 00:46:34.489
the nanny. Making sure she wasn't alone with the kids,
948
00:46:34.530 --> 00:46:35.989
or at least not alone with the kids for long
949
00:46:36.070 --> 00:46:37.420
extended periods of time.
950
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:42.250
Yeah. Well, and the prosecution showed footage of her, of
951
00:46:42.329 --> 00:46:46.170
them on family outings, that I think the reason the
952
00:46:46.210 --> 00:46:49.710
prosecution showed it was to say, see, she's perfectly normal.
953
00:46:49.909 --> 00:46:52.860
She's handling all three children on her own in the exhibit,
954
00:46:53.139 --> 00:46:55.400
playing with the young kids, holding one, pushing the other
955
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:58.219
in the stroller. While Patrick is like 10 feet away
956
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:00.119
doing whatever else. Texting or whatever. Not even paying attention.
957
00:47:00.139 --> 00:47:04.420
And it's like, okay, you're not. And so the prosecution
958
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:06.880
is saying, see, she was in her right mind. Right.
959
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:10.809
And so a couple of things. One thing is, okay,
960
00:47:11.389 --> 00:47:14.590
another trigger warning. But what is oftentimes the first thing
961
00:47:14.630 --> 00:47:18.820
someone says when someone does end their own life? they
962
00:47:18.860 --> 00:47:23.340
had no idea. Right. They weren't expecting it because they
963
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:24.559
seemed so happy.
964
00:47:24.579 --> 00:47:26.059
They just kept putting on the brave face.
965
00:47:26.099 --> 00:47:28.840
They seemed so normal. And so, like, what? Does the
966
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:31.900
prosecution have some kind of idea that if someone's struggling
967
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:34.300
mentally and with their mental health, that they're going to
968
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:39.320
walk around with... Exactly. It's like, normal people struggle with
969
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:42.199
these things and the stigma and the idea that you
970
00:47:42.219 --> 00:47:44.500
should be able to pick them out just by looking
971
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:47.010
at them on the street is absurd. And also, what...
972
00:47:48.070 --> 00:47:50.809
I saw, and a lot of other people online saw,
973
00:47:51.210 --> 00:47:55.530
was a woman taking care of three children almost by
974
00:47:55.570 --> 00:47:58.389
herself in these places while the husband was not being
975
00:47:58.409 --> 00:48:01.619
supportive and not being helpful. And that, even if none
976
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:03.599
of this happened, I hate when I see that.
977
00:48:03.699 --> 00:48:04.539
Same.
978
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:10.000
And I think, I understand that generationally things are getting better,
979
00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:13.260
I think, and dads are becoming softer and more present.
980
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:13.360
Yeah.
981
00:48:13.929 --> 00:48:16.360
By and large. But for a long time, the woman
982
00:48:16.409 --> 00:48:18.380
did take care of the kids and the dad worked.
983
00:48:18.420 --> 00:48:20.219
And then I don't know what just fucked off all
984
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:22.400
the time. I don't know what the dad did in
985
00:48:22.420 --> 00:48:23.000
the 60s.
986
00:48:24.019 --> 00:48:26.639
Came home and watched TV and read the paper. I
987
00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:27.039
don't know.
988
00:48:27.059 --> 00:48:32.889
Drank a beer. So anyways, that's so telling to me
989
00:48:32.969 --> 00:48:35.769
because I would have liked to see him being there
990
00:48:35.809 --> 00:48:39.000
helping with the kids. even if she has it all together,
991
00:48:39.059 --> 00:48:43.460
because the strongest person who actually might not be struggling,
992
00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:46.980
it's still a struggle to carry all of that responsibility
993
00:48:47.610 --> 00:48:50.849
on your own in a public place, let alone someone
994
00:48:50.909 --> 00:48:55.409
who was struggling. So I agree. I mean, I don't
995
00:48:55.550 --> 00:48:57.010
know what he could be charged with, but I do
996
00:48:57.050 --> 00:48:59.210
think that he should feel a sense of, and I
997
00:48:59.550 --> 00:49:03.019
hope playing devil's advocate, if she did it, that he
998
00:49:03.059 --> 00:49:07.170
does think as I think I would, What could I
999
00:49:07.190 --> 00:49:09.409
have done better? Right. Okay.
1000
00:49:09.530 --> 00:49:12.019
Well, there's two other things that I want to talk
1001
00:49:12.059 --> 00:49:14.460
about just because we're on it. First of all, I
1002
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:15.800
hate that prosecution.
1003
00:49:15.820 --> 00:49:18.570
Wearing the bow in her fucking hair. Okay. Wait.
1004
00:49:18.590 --> 00:49:22.079
Let's talk about it. this for a second because that
1005
00:49:22.340 --> 00:49:25.239
it has a term because they they were essentially doing
1006
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:28.579
it to kind of taunt Lindsay yeah and make her
1007
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:30.320
feel bad because Cora loved wearing.
1008
00:49:30.090 --> 00:49:34.869
Bows and also keep I think keep reminding the jury
1009
00:49:35.130 --> 00:49:36.750
of the child yeah I.
1010
00:49:36.710 --> 00:49:42.840
Have a question Your dad's in the courtroom. Mm-hmm. So
1011
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:46.190
you're fucking with the mom and trying to remind the jury,
1012
00:49:46.329 --> 00:49:49.789
but you represent the dad, too. Doesn't that bother him?
1013
00:49:50.050 --> 00:49:50.369
Right.
1014
00:49:51.150 --> 00:49:53.849
Because my dad's a lot of things, but let me
1015
00:49:53.869 --> 00:49:57.449
tell you, that would fucking destroy him just as much
1016
00:49:57.789 --> 00:50:01.719
as it would destroy, well, not my mom. But what
1017
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:02.269
I'm saying is.
1018
00:50:05.449 --> 00:50:05.739
Anyway.
1019
00:50:06.929 --> 00:50:08.599
Different topic, different day.
1020
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:10.679
She liked bows? Yeah.
1021
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:12.179
Oh, I was unaware.
1022
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:16.039
Oh, my God.
1023
00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:20.539
But I just thought like it's so insensitive in so
1024
00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:23.079
many reasons and it's actually something they're not supposed to
1025
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:25.179
be allowed to do or get away with. So they're
1026
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:27.300
wearing all these bows to try to remind the jury
1027
00:50:27.340 --> 00:50:30.780
that a little girl was unalived and obviously kind of
1028
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:32.420
like messing with the mom. But why doesn't it mess
1029
00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:32.960
with the dad?
1030
00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:33.840
Yeah.
1031
00:50:33.860 --> 00:50:37.550
Yeah. Reddington would hold up the biggest photos ever next
1032
00:50:37.590 --> 00:50:41.460
to him. Like, everything was blown up. Mm-hmm. I just
1033
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:43.980
think it's weird. I just think it's weird that there was...
1034
00:50:44.099 --> 00:50:46.219
He never shed a tear.
1035
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:50.000
I do, too. I try to reserve judgment.
1036
00:50:50.179 --> 00:50:50.900
I know.
1037
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:53.769
But since we're just being honest... We're just being honest.
1038
00:50:53.789 --> 00:50:58.730
with our small group of friends here, I agree. I wouldn't...
1039
00:51:00.190 --> 00:51:00.829
I would have.
1040
00:51:02.820 --> 00:51:05.500
Not presented the same that he did. It's wild.
1041
00:51:05.539 --> 00:51:07.760
Just because wouldn't you be... I almost feel like you
1042
00:51:07.780 --> 00:51:10.800
would be blaming yourself. Like, I left. I shouldn't have left.
1043
00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:13.500
I can't believe I left. I knew she wasn't... Like, yeah,
1044
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:14.800
she was having a better day, but I knew in
1045
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:17.099
general I maybe should have taken the baby with me
1046
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:19.219
just so, like, she had a little bit of a break.
1047
00:51:19.699 --> 00:51:20.079
Yeah.
1048
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:24.659
Looking at her, I'm so sorry. I should have been
1049
00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:29.949
there for you. Like... Yeah. There's just no emotion of
1050
00:51:29.969 --> 00:51:33.000
a man... Whose whole world got wrecked.
1051
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:33.579
Yeah.
1052
00:51:34.300 --> 00:51:37.039
Now can we go for a second down the conspiracy?
1053
00:51:37.099 --> 00:51:37.539
Go for it.
1054
00:51:37.539 --> 00:51:41.440
I'm sure we'll circle back to like normal things, but okay.
1055
00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:44.360
18 days later, you're in the Dominican or I forget
1056
00:51:44.380 --> 00:51:46.610
where it was, Dominican or Costa Rica, hiking and posting
1057
00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:48.179
about how great the hike was and giving it a
1058
00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:48.949
five-star rating.
1059
00:51:48.969 --> 00:51:50.869
Oh, I thought it was like four months later.
1060
00:51:50.969 --> 00:51:53.449
No, no. Four months later, he moved to New York.
1061
00:51:53.449 --> 00:51:59.460
18 days after your three babies are gone... Uh-huh. And
1062
00:51:59.500 --> 00:52:03.300
your wife tried to take her life. You're posting a
1063
00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:07.030
photo smiling out on a hike and saying like, it's hot,
1064
00:52:07.070 --> 00:52:07.820
but it was worth it?
1065
00:52:08.889 --> 00:52:10.010
Yeah.
1066
00:52:10.550 --> 00:52:11.510
I hate him just for that.
1067
00:52:11.530 --> 00:52:16.269
It's like, read the room, dick. This is not. What? Yeah.
1068
00:52:16.389 --> 00:52:21.409
Like, what? If God forbid anything happened to my kid,
1069
00:52:21.449 --> 00:52:23.349
you might as well just take me because I'm done.
1070
00:52:23.510 --> 00:52:23.789
Right.
1071
00:52:24.230 --> 00:52:25.769
I'm not coming back from it.
1072
00:52:25.929 --> 00:52:29.260
I'm definitely not posting selfies. You know what I mean?
1073
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:30.199
Two weeks later.
1074
00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:32.360
The only thing I could think if it was like
1075
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:35.099
so depressed, so dark, and a friend was like, let's
1076
00:52:35.139 --> 00:52:40.369
go on this, this, like... And they were, I don't know,
1077
00:52:40.650 --> 00:52:43.429
praying or meditating every day, like trying to find healing.
1078
00:52:43.590 --> 00:52:46.909
But you're not giving the hike a five-star rating publicly.
1079
00:52:46.969 --> 00:52:48.920
Yeah, right. Yeah.
1080
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:52.650
Also, you're not smiling. You would probably... Right.
1081
00:52:52.769 --> 00:52:54.510
Okay, listen. I can't even imagine. I don't have kids.
1082
00:52:54.550 --> 00:52:56.250
I got broken up with a year ago, and for
1083
00:52:56.289 --> 00:52:58.650
like three weeks, my face was swollen from crying.
1084
00:52:58.670 --> 00:52:59.190
Uh-huh.
1085
00:52:59.789 --> 00:53:02.389
This man looked healthy and happy as a clam, not
1086
00:53:02.429 --> 00:53:03.050
a tear shed.
1087
00:53:03.070 --> 00:53:03.849
I know.
1088
00:53:04.030 --> 00:53:07.789
Your face, your eyes aren't swollen. You're like, you just, what?
1089
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:08.590
Mm-hmm.
1090
00:53:09.610 --> 00:53:11.840
Again, I'm not even saying, did he do it or
1091
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:15.599
did she do it? I'm just saying, it's weird. You
1092
00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:18.619
just lost your wife, essentially. Your wife did something horrible.
1093
00:53:18.679 --> 00:53:22.269
You lost your three babies. Your whole world just got
1094
00:53:22.289 --> 00:53:25.130
turned upside down besides the fact that you got $ 1. 7
1095
00:53:24.449 --> 00:53:25.789
million from a GoFundMe account.
1096
00:53:26.469 --> 00:53:26.670
Yeah.
1097
00:53:26.789 --> 00:53:29.110
And the life insurance. And then four months later, you
1098
00:53:29.150 --> 00:53:32.289
moved to a very nice apartment in New York, which
1099
00:53:32.349 --> 00:53:34.280
now we can go down conspiracy theory even more.
1100
00:53:34.300 --> 00:53:35.460
Uh-huh.
1101
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:37.820
So the new wife looks identical.
1102
00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:38.380
Yeah.
1103
00:53:38.599 --> 00:53:43.360
To Lindsay. The new wife's dad apparently was like the
1104
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:48.230
realtor of this apartment. This apartment was taken off... The market.
1105
00:53:48.250 --> 00:53:50.449
It wasn't rented. It was taken off the market one
1106
00:53:50.489 --> 00:53:53.530
day before the murders. And then four months later, he
1107
00:53:53.610 --> 00:53:53.989
rented it.
1108
00:53:53.989 --> 00:53:59.269
I also saw something about... Like, they weren't on a
1109
00:53:59.309 --> 00:54:03.309
trip together, but she actually did a review of the
1110
00:54:03.349 --> 00:54:04.510
same trip.
1111
00:54:04.590 --> 00:54:06.650
They were there at the same time. Right. I don't
1112
00:54:06.670 --> 00:54:09.530
think they were quote-unquote together, but they were there at
1113
00:54:09.590 --> 00:54:10.610
the same time.
1114
00:54:11.070 --> 00:54:14.550
So, I mean, you gotta ask. I don't know. What
1115
00:54:14.650 --> 00:54:19.829
I will say is... All of that. And people saying, like,
1116
00:54:20.789 --> 00:54:24.159
could the new wife be involved in all of that?
1117
00:54:24.659 --> 00:54:28.559
First of all, if, and I hope, because just for
1118
00:54:28.579 --> 00:54:32.460
the sake of decency of humanity, I hope she had
1119
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:37.219
nothing to do with it, the new wife. And if
1120
00:54:37.300 --> 00:54:39.980
that is the case, I feel bad for her because
1121
00:54:40.059 --> 00:54:44.059
she also has gotten a lot of publicity out of
1122
00:54:44.099 --> 00:54:46.400
something that she might be like, I had nothing to
1123
00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:51.579
do with. But there are so many questions now that
1124
00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:56.699
need to be answered. And I think that regardless of
1125
00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:01.610
what the jury comes back with, whether they can't come
1126
00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:07.489
to an agreement, because the burden is to prove beyond
1127
00:55:07.570 --> 00:55:12.349
reasonable doubt. And I didn't hear any evidence other than
1128
00:55:12.690 --> 00:55:15.570
what her statements were which she couldn't even make until
1129
00:55:15.659 --> 00:55:18.300
six days after. And part of her statement was that
1130
00:55:18.360 --> 00:55:21.139
she cut the screen in the window. So we know
1131
00:55:21.179 --> 00:55:23.900
that it wasn't cut. Right. And so.
1132
00:55:24.579 --> 00:55:26.500
It also wasn't even looked at or tested to see
1133
00:55:26.539 --> 00:55:27.920
if there was blood on it because if she had
1134
00:55:28.019 --> 00:55:30.900
already cut herself, then there would be blood all... I mean,
1135
00:55:30.940 --> 00:55:32.340
the amount of blood that was all over the room,
1136
00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:35.659
then you had to cut yourself before you went out
1137
00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:36.019
the window.
1138
00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:37.719
And there was also blood on the house. So if
1139
00:55:37.780 --> 00:55:39.539
she's the one who opened the window, there would be
1140
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:45.389
blood on the window. Exactly. Yeah. So... There are questions
1141
00:55:45.469 --> 00:55:49.690
that for me, I have what I consider reasonable doubt
1142
00:55:49.769 --> 00:55:52.309
to say for sure this is what happened. There's too
1143
00:55:52.349 --> 00:55:57.469
much gray area for what happens when someone's in psychosis.
1144
00:55:57.730 --> 00:56:01.320
She definitely was. But the question is, did she do
1145
00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:04.599
that act or did she adopt the story that was
1146
00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:06.099
told to her in that amount of time?
1147
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:09.679
Well, I also wonder, she was definitely dealing with depression
1148
00:56:09.699 --> 00:56:14.079
and a lot of dangerous thoughts for herself.
1149
00:56:14.179 --> 00:56:14.420
Yeah.
1150
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:18.070
We know that. I don't know how much I understand
1151
00:56:18.090 --> 00:56:19.809
the psychosis part, so I want to be careful about
1152
00:56:19.829 --> 00:56:21.590
how much I even, like, have an opinion on that.
1153
00:56:21.670 --> 00:56:25.809
But he had so many of her medications in his car.
1154
00:56:26.190 --> 00:56:27.170
It's just weird to me.
1155
00:56:27.349 --> 00:56:27.570
Yeah.
1156
00:56:27.590 --> 00:56:31.250
Like, because also, why didn't you get rid of them? Also, like, the...
1157
00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:35.039
the Lola Quinn or whatever it's called was like one.
1158
00:56:35.059 --> 00:56:37.239
She had already stopped taking several weeks earlier, but that's
1159
00:56:37.260 --> 00:56:40.179
what was found elevated in her system. How did it
1160
00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:42.429
get there? Cause those were the ones that were in
1161
00:56:42.489 --> 00:56:45.409
his car, not in the house from what I understand.
1162
00:56:45.710 --> 00:56:47.530
So we don't have question about how it got there
1163
00:56:47.809 --> 00:56:49.150
and how it got into her system.
1164
00:56:49.769 --> 00:56:53.480
And like, why would someone crush up pills? Like you're
1165
00:56:53.500 --> 00:56:56.920
not afraid of slitting your wrist and your throat, but
1166
00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:59.090
you're worried about your gag reflex?
1167
00:56:59.170 --> 00:57:00.869
No, I think what they were saying is sometimes when
1168
00:57:00.909 --> 00:57:02.630
pills are crushed up, they act faster.
1169
00:57:03.389 --> 00:57:06.789
Oh. But, okay. I guess, maybe.
1170
00:57:07.389 --> 00:57:10.389
But they were in his car from my understanding. They
1171
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:12.940
weren't the ones that are in the bedside table. There's
1172
00:57:12.980 --> 00:57:14.579
a lot of questions.
1173
00:57:16.659 --> 00:57:17.539
That bring doubt.
1174
00:57:17.579 --> 00:57:20.780
That bring doubt. And what I was going to say
1175
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:24.489
about the psychosis was, Was she in psychosis or was
1176
00:57:24.530 --> 00:57:26.210
she being drugged regularly?
1177
00:57:26.610 --> 00:57:28.539
Well, I wonder if you could also be in a...
1178
00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:32.719
And this is a wonder. One of my clients, actually,
1179
00:57:33.340 --> 00:57:37.320
my coaching clients, is a therapist. And so she's exchanged
1180
00:57:37.380 --> 00:57:42.789
some comments about this case and how severe psychosis is.
1181
00:57:43.530 --> 00:57:47.110
And I love hearing it from someone like that because
1182
00:57:47.170 --> 00:57:49.570
I know that they have more information than I do
1183
00:57:49.650 --> 00:57:54.010
or what random people online... But I wonder if whether
1184
00:57:54.070 --> 00:57:57.349
it was, if it could have been because of like,
1185
00:57:57.389 --> 00:58:00.070
if you can be pushed into a psychotic break also
1186
00:58:00.130 --> 00:58:02.150
because of the medication you're taking either way. I have
1187
00:58:02.170 --> 00:58:02.989
to assume you could.
1188
00:58:03.429 --> 00:58:05.349
Yeah. So that's what I was saying was like, is
1189
00:58:05.389 --> 00:58:07.969
it because of, was it because of all the hormones crashing?
1190
00:58:07.989 --> 00:58:09.570
Because it could, which by the way, it could have
1191
00:58:09.590 --> 00:58:13.570
been a combination of anything. It could have been postpartum.
1192
00:58:13.750 --> 00:58:15.789
You know, I saw one doctor go, oh, you're not
1193
00:58:15.809 --> 00:58:19.389
postpartum after four weeks. And I'm like, get the fuck
1194
00:58:19.429 --> 00:58:22.469
out of here. I believe it was a man that
1195
00:58:22.489 --> 00:58:24.269
said it too. And I'm like, okay, well, when you
1196
00:58:24.329 --> 00:58:27.880
do it, then talk to me. Because you don't even
1197
00:58:27.929 --> 00:58:31.239
get your period back for possibly the first year, depending
1198
00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:34.179
on how long you're breastfeeding. You can actually keep your
1199
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:36.340
period away. So you already know your hormones are all
1200
00:58:36.380 --> 00:58:40.440
like over here. Like I said, you just delivered, so
1201
00:58:40.760 --> 00:58:43.190
everything bottoms out. It's got to find its way back,
1202
00:58:43.429 --> 00:58:45.969
and it doesn't do it in four weeks. So to
1203
00:58:46.010 --> 00:58:49.469
say somebody's not postpartum anymore after four weeks, and then
1204
00:58:49.489 --> 00:58:52.969
you just keep adding sleep deprivation and sleep– you don't
1205
00:58:53.190 --> 00:58:55.769
know that kind of tired. I can't even describe it,
1206
00:58:55.769 --> 00:58:57.949
and I have one. I only had one.
1207
00:58:58.139 --> 00:58:58.429
Right.
1208
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:02.690
And that level of tired was like nothing I've ever–
1209
00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:03.900
It's torture.
1210
00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:04.340
Yeah.
1211
00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:05.679
And Dom was a good sleeper.
1212
00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:06.139
Yeah.
1213
00:59:06.460 --> 00:59:08.170
So I can't imagine if you had a baby that
1214
00:59:08.190 --> 00:59:09.969
didn't sleep, but like it's, you know how you think.
1215
00:59:10.070 --> 00:59:11.730
about like, oh, like torture where they like play the
1216
00:59:11.750 --> 00:59:15.349
loud music and they don't let you sleep. well every
1217
00:59:15.389 --> 00:59:17.309
two hours right as you're dozing off that baby wakes
1218
00:59:17.389 --> 00:59:18.949
up and needs to be put on your boob so
1219
00:59:18.969 --> 00:59:20.309
they can eat and then as soon as they're done
1220
00:59:20.329 --> 00:59:23.559
you got to change them because now they peed pooped
1221
00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:25.019
and then you lay them down and then you get
1222
00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:26.420
back in bed and you're just like and by the
1223
00:59:26.440 --> 00:59:29.079
way your fucking husband is laying there sleeping the whole
1224
00:59:29.119 --> 00:59:32.239
time and you're like if anybody i kind of want
1225
00:59:32.260 --> 00:59:36.030
to kick you because why aren't you waking up like
1226
00:59:36.070 --> 00:59:41.539
i understand i got the milk but like solidarity, please. Exactly.
1227
00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:42.559
We're in this together, aren't we?
1228
00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:43.679
Yeah, and it's always like, well, why do I have
1229
00:59:43.699 --> 00:59:44.719
to be tired? I have to get up and go
1230
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:48.429
to work. Bitch, I'll trade you. You stay home and
1231
00:59:48.449 --> 00:59:51.869
sing ABCs and change shit diapers and get peed on
1232
00:59:51.909 --> 00:59:54.789
in your face and I'll go have an adult conversation
1233
00:59:55.889 --> 00:59:59.989
in a very quiet office by myself. Let's see how
1234
01:00:00.070 --> 01:00:04.309
you do. For real. Men wouldn't survive. That's not true.
1235
01:00:04.369 --> 01:00:05.730
Some men do it and they have to do it
1236
01:00:05.750 --> 01:00:08.900
and they rise to the occasion. But it's just like, Yeah.
1237
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:11.219
They act like, oh, I have to get up and
1238
01:00:11.260 --> 01:00:13.400
go to work. So I couldn't possibly help.
1239
01:00:14.900 --> 01:00:17.030
Well, it's so funny. You know, I appreciate my brother
1240
01:00:17.110 --> 01:00:20.889
so much. And he was talking about his family dynamic.
1241
01:00:21.570 --> 01:00:23.610
And Nell and I went on a double date with
1242
01:00:23.650 --> 01:00:29.829
my sister-in-law and my brother. And she was talking about
1243
01:00:30.090 --> 01:00:33.550
how sometimes it's hard with the kids, but she also
1244
01:00:33.590 --> 01:00:36.159
feels like because Kenny's working, her job is cleaning the house.
1245
01:00:36.539 --> 01:00:39.949
And in the moment, my brother was like, I don't
1246
01:00:40.110 --> 01:00:44.179
feel that way. Your job is the kids, if we're
1247
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:46.980
going to say that. If we need to get some
1248
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:51.480
help cleaning the house to make both of our jobs easier. Right.
1249
01:00:52.019 --> 01:00:54.300
And I just appreciated him saying that so much. Yeah.
1250
01:00:54.340 --> 01:00:58.449
Because it does seem like... I'm so anti the man goes...
1251
01:00:58.929 --> 01:01:01.670
to work and the woman stays home yeah and a
1252
01:01:01.710 --> 01:01:03.789
lot of times that's still not even the case but
1253
01:01:03.809 --> 01:01:06.070
somehow the woman works and has to do all that
1254
01:01:06.150 --> 01:01:08.969
other shit so i'm like don't get me on my
1255
01:01:09.010 --> 01:01:12.630
soapbox i know right like yeah yeah by the way
1256
01:01:13.449 --> 01:01:15.420
three months after dom was born i was back at
1257
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:17.920
work seeing clients at 5 a.m so i would breastfeed
1258
01:01:17.940 --> 01:01:19.159
through the night then get.
1259
01:01:19.219 --> 01:01:23.940
Up pump so i could leave milk go train clients
1260
01:01:23.980 --> 01:01:26.559
all day long, pump in my car in between, put
1261
01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:28.719
the milk in the cooler, come home. And then when
1262
01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:31.260
I got home, Kent left because he was a restaurant
1263
01:01:31.300 --> 01:01:34.139
manager and he did the night closing shift. So I
1264
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:36.719
worked all day, came home and then just took over
1265
01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:38.909
at the three o'clock hour. So I still had from
1266
01:01:38.969 --> 01:01:42.260
three to seven or eight. And then it was like, okay,
1267
01:01:42.300 --> 01:01:45.429
now I can maybe bathe myself really quickly before he
1268
01:01:45.449 --> 01:01:46.949
wakes up again. You know, it was like, there was
1269
01:01:46.969 --> 01:01:50.190
like nonstop. And Kent was very good about helping. But
1270
01:01:50.309 --> 01:01:51.610
you know, at a certain point I had to go
1271
01:01:51.630 --> 01:01:53.639
back to work and It's hard.
1272
01:01:53.659 --> 01:01:54.440
It's fucking hard.
1273
01:01:54.699 --> 01:01:57.179
There were so many other things. I saw photos the
1274
01:01:57.199 --> 01:02:01.460
other day. It was like the kids' dinner plates. These
1275
01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:02.880
plates looked like they had just been pulled out of
1276
01:02:02.900 --> 01:02:05.159
the cabinet. They were not dirty. There was no chicken
1277
01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:07.230
nugget on these things. Oh. But he said when they
1278
01:02:07.269 --> 01:02:10.090
left that the kids were eating chicken nuggets, but the
1279
01:02:10.150 --> 01:02:12.590
autopsy showed their stomachs were empty.
1280
01:02:12.610 --> 01:02:16.309
Uh-huh. That's interesting. There's a lot.
1281
01:02:16.329 --> 01:02:18.210
There's a lot that doesn't... There's so many things.
1282
01:02:18.230 --> 01:02:19.820
The Apple Watch. We honestly could have.
1283
01:02:21.550 --> 01:02:22.230
This is the kind of.
1284
01:02:22.210 --> 01:02:24.869
Thing you do the whole series. Like literally because.
1285
01:02:25.530 --> 01:02:29.559
So anyways, lots of questions. And I feel like based
1286
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:32.300
on my, what I understand, even though I wasn't sitting
1287
01:02:32.380 --> 01:02:38.079
in that courtroom, I couldn't give a guilty. Okay. So
1288
01:02:38.139 --> 01:02:39.030
I have two questions.
1289
01:02:39.650 --> 01:02:44.570
Would you give a, would you lean towards based on
1290
01:02:44.610 --> 01:02:48.599
what we have seen or what you've seen? Would you
1291
01:02:48.699 --> 01:02:51.530
vote not guilty? Because that's one option that they have.
1292
01:02:52.610 --> 01:02:57.250
Would you vote guilty by insanity? You said you couldn't
1293
01:02:57.289 --> 01:02:59.130
do guilty. So I guess those are your two options.
1294
01:02:59.510 --> 01:03:01.230
Not guilty or guilty by insanity.
1295
01:03:01.250 --> 01:03:07.889
Not guilty or not guilty based on... Yeah. I would do... I, well,
1296
01:03:07.929 --> 01:03:10.869
they've asked some questions and I'm sure that they heard
1297
01:03:11.070 --> 01:03:13.289
things and also haven't heard things that I've heard.
1298
01:03:13.309 --> 01:03:13.710
Right.
1299
01:03:13.750 --> 01:03:15.690
So I can't put the, because they don't have access
1300
01:03:15.730 --> 01:03:16.869
to all the theories and stuff.
1301
01:03:16.889 --> 01:03:18.530
No, I'm just saying based on what you have heard.
1302
01:03:18.570 --> 01:03:19.630
Based on what I've heard.
1303
01:03:19.670 --> 01:03:24.639
Would you, guilty by insanity, not guilty at all?
1304
01:03:24.650 --> 01:03:28.510
This is so, this is so hard for me and
1305
01:03:28.530 --> 01:03:30.559
I don't think I could actually function in a case
1306
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:32.260
like this, but I think I would do not guilty.
1307
01:03:32.980 --> 01:03:37.670
Not because I think it's impossible. that she's guilty, but
1308
01:03:37.849 --> 01:03:41.610
I have doubt that I think is reasonable. And the
1309
01:03:41.989 --> 01:03:46.030
burden is on the prosecution to take away the reasonable doubt.
1310
01:03:46.690 --> 01:03:50.690
And I don't think that that was done. However, again,
1311
01:03:51.250 --> 01:03:53.090
I've heard a lot of things that maybe they haven't heard,
1312
01:03:53.110 --> 01:03:54.909
so maybe I'd feel different, but that's where I'm at.
1313
01:03:55.969 --> 01:03:59.309
But that doesn't mean that I don't want justice and
1314
01:03:59.349 --> 01:04:02.690
that doesn't exclude that from being that she did it.
1315
01:04:03.030 --> 01:04:05.590
I just have too much doubt based on some of
1316
01:04:05.659 --> 01:04:09.829
the like things that they said. So I'm interested. I'm
1317
01:04:09.849 --> 01:04:12.119
interested in the questions that the jury was asking. Cause
1318
01:04:12.159 --> 01:04:15.599
it sounds like, like if they're asking about the knife,
1319
01:04:15.619 --> 01:04:18.719
that doesn't have anything to do with whether she was
1320
01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:23.179
not guilty by reason of insanity or not guilt. They're
1321
01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:24.269
wondering if she.
1322
01:04:24.510 --> 01:04:26.530
To see the knife and they asked to see the
1323
01:04:26.550 --> 01:04:30.090
pill bottles. That's what they asked for recently during their deliberation,
1324
01:04:30.809 --> 01:04:32.389
which I wonder because they said the way the knife
1325
01:04:32.409 --> 01:04:34.489
was sat down on the table was was by that
1326
01:04:34.510 --> 01:04:37.989
of a left-handed person, not a right-handed. Her DNA isn't,
1327
01:04:38.210 --> 01:04:39.989
or her fingerprints aren't on the knife.
1328
01:04:40.570 --> 01:04:40.829
Yeah.
1329
01:04:41.250 --> 01:04:45.159
Her fingerprints were not anywhere on the exercise bands.
1330
01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:46.519
Yeah, that's what I heard.
1331
01:04:47.300 --> 01:04:51.199
Which, I, so I guess I would say I'm the
1332
01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:55.500
same with you. First and foremost, there needs to be justice,
1333
01:04:55.539 --> 01:04:59.079
but there needs to be justice for the whole situation. And,
1334
01:05:01.530 --> 01:05:05.519
There is, like you said, there's reasonable doubt as to
1335
01:05:05.579 --> 01:05:11.119
whether or not she could have done it. I'm not
1336
01:05:11.139 --> 01:05:14.119
saying that she didn't do it, but I'm definitely saying
1337
01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:18.860
I'm not convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt. And
1338
01:05:18.929 --> 01:05:22.909
if you're going to convict somebody to life and they
1339
01:05:22.949 --> 01:05:26.389
have to go through their life knowing that they're the
1340
01:05:26.409 --> 01:05:27.889
reason their babies aren't here anymore.
1341
01:05:27.909 --> 01:05:28.730
Right.
1342
01:05:30.900 --> 01:05:33.400
And they don't have the memory to say yes or no,
1343
01:05:33.639 --> 01:05:36.699
then you have to, you have to make it make sense.
1344
01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:39.949
Yeah. And that's, that's where I'm fault. So I, I
1345
01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:41.889
wonder if the jury is going to be a hung
1346
01:05:41.909 --> 01:05:44.550
jury because I'm also not at the place where I
1347
01:05:44.550 --> 01:05:46.949
would try to change someone else's mind, but I don't
1348
01:05:46.989 --> 01:05:49.250
know that my, like if I'm sitting in the deliberating
1349
01:05:49.289 --> 01:05:52.860
with the other jurors, I wouldn't be like, no, because
1350
01:05:52.900 --> 01:05:57.070
you like, because it's such a, It's such a.
1351
01:05:57.349 --> 01:05:59.170
Everybody has to live with their decision.
1352
01:05:59.210 --> 01:06:00.050
With what they say, exactly.
1353
01:06:00.070 --> 01:06:05.599
Because your decision is essentially impacting so many lives. His life,
1354
01:06:05.719 --> 01:06:09.539
her life, he has a new family, new kids, how
1355
01:06:09.559 --> 01:06:11.539
the rest of the family perceives everything. Yeah.
1356
01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:13.719
All of it.
1357
01:06:13.780 --> 01:06:16.150
So it's like, yeah, as a juror, you have a
1358
01:06:16.809 --> 01:06:20.570
monster responsibility that you're going to have to carry through
1359
01:06:20.610 --> 01:06:21.130
your life.
1360
01:06:21.650 --> 01:06:25.889
You know what's hard about saying, like, not guilty is
1361
01:06:25.929 --> 01:06:29.800
because it Lacks the closure that I think everyone desires
1362
01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:32.860
for the kids, but.
1363
01:06:33.690 --> 01:06:38.409
I think that there will be... If she is not convicted,
1364
01:06:38.889 --> 01:06:45.440
if she is found not guilty, or if there's a hung...
1365
01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:46.940
I guess if there's a hung jury, does it go
1366
01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:47.820
back to trial?
1367
01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:52.519
She stays incarcerated, it goes... Well... The prosecution could drop
1368
01:06:52.619 --> 01:06:54.320
all charges, which.
1369
01:06:54.340 --> 01:06:56.579
Which I don't think they would because these two are like.
1370
01:06:57.019 --> 01:06:59.179
Yeah. I mean, it might not be up to these
1371
01:06:59.260 --> 01:07:06.710
two individuals, but if it's a hung jury, then they could...
1372
01:07:06.710 --> 01:07:10.869
She could stay incarcerated. I think it could be retried
1373
01:07:11.409 --> 01:07:13.340
or they could drop all charges in which she'd have
1374
01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:14.079
to be released.
1375
01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:15.260
Here's the biggest problem.
1376
01:07:15.340 --> 01:07:15.739
Okay, wait.
1377
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:17.699
I'm not... How are we on time?
1378
01:07:18.019 --> 01:07:20.960
We're... We should wrap up.
1379
01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:22.880
Okay. Hold on. I can't wrap up yet. I got
1380
01:07:22.900 --> 01:07:24.179
to bring up one more thing.
1381
01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:24.780
Okay.
1382
01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:27.599
Because Reddington is good.
1383
01:07:28.019 --> 01:07:28.719
Yeah, he's good.
1384
01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:30.469
And I think good. And I mean that in a
1385
01:07:30.489 --> 01:07:33.869
good way. He's a good man, it feels like. He's
1386
01:07:33.949 --> 01:07:38.750
staying on point. And he proposed, and I forget what
1387
01:07:38.789 --> 01:07:41.980
it's called, but he proposed something right before closing arguments
1388
01:07:42.019 --> 01:07:45.769
to have the case basically dropped because There was, like,
1389
01:07:46.030 --> 01:07:47.150
no investigation.
1390
01:07:47.190 --> 01:07:47.429
Right.
1391
01:07:47.710 --> 01:07:50.050
And even trying to go back because they didn't preserve
1392
01:07:50.090 --> 01:07:53.329
things properly, you can't even go back and test the
1393
01:07:53.389 --> 01:07:57.409
screen because they didn't do it right. And it's degraded now, like,
1394
01:07:57.429 --> 01:08:00.409
certain things. So, like, I don't even.
1395
01:08:00.309 --> 01:08:01.699
Know how you... Someone else lives in the house now.
1396
01:08:01.739 --> 01:08:01.880
Yeah.
1397
01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:03.019
I think, right?
1398
01:08:03.039 --> 01:08:08.960
Yeah, his friend who was... Was it the investigator?
1399
01:08:09.059 --> 01:08:11.460
It was someone in the, I think, in law enforcement.
1400
01:08:11.539 --> 01:08:13.570
And he sold the house? It was his friend who
1401
01:08:13.610 --> 01:08:15.789
was like one of the investigators on the case and
1402
01:08:15.809 --> 01:08:17.569
he sold it for under market value to him.
1403
01:08:18.630 --> 01:08:21.609
Okay. Back to the conspiracy.
1404
01:08:21.909 --> 01:08:24.649
I'm not even, I'm just saying facts. Those are facts.
1405
01:08:25.409 --> 01:08:26.010
But, okay.
1406
01:08:26.369 --> 01:08:28.689
But I don't even know how you would retry it
1407
01:08:29.829 --> 01:08:34.979
because the prosecution can't go get more evidence. The evidence
1408
01:08:35.020 --> 01:08:37.810
was not handled. But what I was going to say
1409
01:08:37.890 --> 01:08:41.409
was I wonder, because I feel like the judge has
1410
01:08:41.430 --> 01:08:46.050
been pretty on top of it too, like keeping prosecution
1411
01:08:46.229 --> 01:08:50.310
in check, like how it's supposed to go. I don't
1412
01:08:50.350 --> 01:08:53.510
feel like I felt favoritism towards one side. I felt
1413
01:08:53.529 --> 01:08:55.149
like he is very much even.
1414
01:08:55.409 --> 01:08:55.779
Yeah, me too.
1415
01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:59.699
So I was kind of wondering if when the judge
1416
01:08:59.800 --> 01:09:05.500
refused to call a mistrial based on the fact that
1417
01:09:05.939 --> 01:09:09.779
the evidence was handled poorly, if that would mean that
1418
01:09:09.810 --> 01:09:12.329
they couldn't then go try Patrick later. Like, let's say
1419
01:09:12.390 --> 01:09:14.829
she's found not guilty. And so they're like, okay, well,
1420
01:09:14.869 --> 01:09:16.550
we have to figure out who did this. And they
1421
01:09:16.569 --> 01:09:18.909
want to go after Patrick. If they called a mistrial
1422
01:09:18.930 --> 01:09:21.569
because the evidence wasn't handled properly, then how could they
1423
01:09:21.590 --> 01:09:24.729
get a trial on anybody else because the evidence wasn't
1424
01:09:24.770 --> 01:09:26.449
handled properly? Yeah.
1425
01:09:26.689 --> 01:09:27.319
It's interesting.
1426
01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:29.880
So I'm wondering if that's why the judge was like,
1427
01:09:30.659 --> 01:09:35.079
we're going to– he let Reddington propose it because now
1428
01:09:35.140 --> 01:09:36.170
the jury hears it.
1429
01:09:36.380 --> 01:09:39.180
And he said, put it in your closing argument.
1430
01:09:39.439 --> 01:09:39.659
Right.
1431
01:09:40.619 --> 01:09:41.720
Or statements or whatever.
1432
01:09:41.739 --> 01:09:45.859
So basically saying, let's make the jury aware that this
1433
01:09:45.899 --> 01:09:46.600
is a real thing.
1434
01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:47.319
Yeah.
1435
01:09:47.890 --> 01:09:50.970
That it wasn't handled properly. I'm not going to throw
1436
01:09:51.010 --> 01:09:51.310
it out.
1437
01:09:51.710 --> 01:09:51.949
Yeah.
1438
01:09:52.350 --> 01:09:55.250
But I'm letting you bring it up. But again, I
1439
01:09:55.310 --> 01:09:58.529
wonder if he did that to make sure that it
1440
01:09:58.649 --> 01:10:02.930
didn't negate anybody else getting tried later.
1441
01:10:03.010 --> 01:10:05.670
Yeah. Well, guys.
1442
01:10:06.029 --> 01:10:06.829
Wait, one more thing.
1443
01:10:07.029 --> 01:10:07.670
Oh. Sorry.
1444
01:10:07.909 --> 01:10:10.220
No, I just want to know because we don't have
1445
01:10:10.260 --> 01:10:11.960
a verdict yet. So what do you think it's going
1446
01:10:11.979 --> 01:10:14.380
to be? Do you think it's going to be hung jury, guilty,
1447
01:10:14.699 --> 01:10:15.439
or not guilty?
1448
01:10:16.199 --> 01:10:20.239
Based on... On my understanding of the information, I think
1449
01:10:20.279 --> 01:10:25.720
it could be a hung jury. I don't think the
1450
01:10:25.760 --> 01:10:29.859
prosecution proved that she... Like, they're trying to charge her
1451
01:10:29.899 --> 01:10:32.890
with whatever the degree murder. Like, she planned the whole
1452
01:10:32.899 --> 01:10:36.029
thing out in her right mind. Right. I don't think
1453
01:10:36.050 --> 01:10:40.430
that they proved that. Right. So, if it's not either...
1454
01:10:41.220 --> 01:10:43.149
I don't think it will be not guilty because of
1455
01:10:43.189 --> 01:10:45.140
the nature of the case, and that's not really what
1456
01:10:45.180 --> 01:10:49.579
her attorney was going for, it seems. Even in his
1457
01:10:49.619 --> 01:10:52.460
closing statements, he said she's probably still sitting over there
1458
01:10:52.479 --> 01:10:55.159
believing she did this. But he wasn't saying she didn't.
1459
01:10:55.180 --> 01:10:56.180
But he didn't say she did it.
1460
01:10:56.260 --> 01:11:01.199
Exactly. So I think it will probably be a hung jury.
1461
01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:07.319
I'll be shocked if it's a guilty case. It might
1462
01:11:07.380 --> 01:11:09.649
be not guilty by reason of insanity. She has to
1463
01:11:09.670 --> 01:11:12.569
spend the rest of her life in an institution instead
1464
01:11:12.609 --> 01:11:15.649
of prison or something like that. But I don't know.
1465
01:11:15.729 --> 01:11:19.090
And who knows if it can be appealed and all that.
1466
01:11:19.590 --> 01:11:21.600
But I think it might be a hung jury. What
1467
01:11:21.619 --> 01:11:21.939
do you think?
1468
01:11:22.159 --> 01:11:24.779
It's a hard call because the prosecution was trying to
1469
01:11:24.859 --> 01:11:28.779
prove that she did it in her right mind. So
1470
01:11:28.819 --> 01:11:31.000
if I'm the jury, the only thing we're trying to
1471
01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:33.390
say yes or no to is Did she do it
1472
01:11:33.449 --> 01:11:35.829
in her right mind? And if the answer is no,
1473
01:11:36.210 --> 01:11:41.069
then it's innocent or not. You could even say, well,
1474
01:11:41.090 --> 01:11:43.289
she's not innocent, but she's not guilty of doing it in.
1475
01:11:43.270 --> 01:11:44.109
Her right mind.
1476
01:11:44.520 --> 01:11:48.140
But they were given the option to say guilty by
1477
01:11:48.220 --> 01:11:49.180
reason of insanity.
1478
01:11:49.359 --> 01:11:50.060
Not guilty.
1479
01:11:50.100 --> 01:11:52.159
Or not guilty by reason of insanity.
1480
01:11:52.399 --> 01:11:55.840
So she did it, but because it's when someone is
1481
01:11:55.899 --> 01:11:57.550
so having a break.
1482
01:11:57.590 --> 01:12:01.819
Yes. So I would be surprised if it was not
1483
01:12:01.899 --> 01:12:06.399
guilty just because there's probably going to be one person
1484
01:12:06.439 --> 01:12:10.680
sitting on the other side going, no, no, no. Even
1485
01:12:10.699 --> 01:12:12.239
though there's a lot of holes in the story.
1486
01:12:12.340 --> 01:12:14.119
I've talked to people who are still very much like,
1487
01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:18.979
she did it. You saw online some guy ended his relationship.
1488
01:12:19.439 --> 01:12:21.569
He was about to get married in two weeks and
1489
01:12:21.590 --> 01:12:24.100
he was like, you think she might not have done it?
1490
01:12:24.329 --> 01:12:25.689
The wedding's off. Yeah.
1491
01:12:26.340 --> 01:12:28.000
Yeah, I know people that think that.
1492
01:12:27.779 --> 01:12:29.779
She did it. And I'm just like, okay. And so, yeah,
1493
01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:31.720
we might have a lot of hate after this for
1494
01:12:31.800 --> 01:12:36.779
just saying we have reasonable doubt. So, it might be
1495
01:12:36.800 --> 01:12:40.119
a hung jury. Yeah. I don't know. It's going to
1496
01:12:40.140 --> 01:12:42.199
be really interesting. I'm like, you're going to have to
1497
01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:44.380
come back in town on Monday when we get this answer.
1498
01:12:44.460 --> 01:12:47.239
I know. If we get it Monday, it could keep going.
1499
01:12:47.779 --> 01:12:49.739
We didn't look to see how long they can deliberate for.
1500
01:12:49.939 --> 01:12:50.380
We should have.
1501
01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:54.859
I think, yeah, we should have. But... We'll see. I
1502
01:12:54.880 --> 01:12:57.159
bet by the time this episode comes out, the answer
1503
01:12:57.199 --> 01:12:59.920
will be there. For sure. So I'd love to hear
1504
01:12:59.939 --> 01:13:03.619
what you guys think. If you've been following this, you
1505
01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:04.100
can let us know.
1506
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:05.699
Not if you're going to send us death threats, though.
1507
01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:06.579
Yeah, just for the record.
1508
01:13:06.619 --> 01:13:08.260
We're having a conversation.
1509
01:13:08.819 --> 01:13:13.239
We mean absolutely no harm, and we're just speaking in
1510
01:13:13.279 --> 01:13:15.699
a safe space. And I also feel like we've done
1511
01:13:15.739 --> 01:13:18.729
a good job about playing the devil's advocate before. And
1512
01:13:18.750 --> 01:13:21.029
the whole thing, we just have questions. Things don't make sense.
1513
01:13:21.590 --> 01:13:24.810
The different shoes don't make sense. The body temperature doesn't
1514
01:13:24.850 --> 01:13:25.270
make sense.
1515
01:13:25.329 --> 01:13:27.489
The timeline doesn't add up. How do you know there's
1516
01:13:27.510 --> 01:13:29.050
crushed pills because.
1517
01:13:28.649 --> 01:13:33.479
You didn't test it? Exactly. That's all. So anyways.
1518
01:13:34.020 --> 01:13:36.619
But if you want to email us your opinions, your thoughts,
1519
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:40.909
everything's perfect. podcast at gmail.com.
1520
01:13:41.329 --> 01:13:43.310
That's right. And you can hit us up on Instagram
1521
01:13:43.340 --> 01:13:47.680
because I started posting again on our podcast Instagram. It's
1522
01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:51.140
everything's perfect official. Shoot us a message. Give us a
1523
01:13:51.180 --> 01:13:53.819
follow there if you haven't. And as always, we really
1524
01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:57.899
appreciate you guys showing up and we'll see you next time. Bye.