1
00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:03,570
- I told Boris about this
after he was retired.
2
00:00:03,570 --> 00:00:05,340
We went out in Oktoberfest in Germany
3
00:00:05,340 --> 00:00:07,530
and had a pint of beer
together and I couldn't help
4
00:00:07,530 --> 00:00:09,390
but say, "You know, you used to do this
5
00:00:09,390 --> 00:00:10,680
and give away your serve."
6
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,599
He about fell off the chair
7
00:00:12,599 --> 00:00:16,920
and he says, "I used
to go home all the time
8
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,290
and just tell my wife.
9
00:00:19,290 --> 00:00:21,747
It's like he reads my mind,"
10
00:00:22,740 --> 00:00:24,427
and he said to me,
11
00:00:24,427 --> 00:00:27,027
"Little did I know you were
just reading my tongue."
12
00:00:28,632 --> 00:00:31,299
(upbeat music)
13
00:00:49,530 --> 00:00:51,210
- The significant consequences
14
00:00:51,210 --> 00:00:54,003
when you can decode nonverbal signals.
15
00:00:56,550 --> 00:00:58,500
When you can listen beyond the words,
16
00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:00,810
you can hear more about what they think
17
00:01:00,810 --> 00:01:02,460
and what they mean.
18
00:01:02,460 --> 00:01:05,370
In this episode of Deep
Listening Impact Beyond Words,
19
00:01:05,370 --> 00:01:08,700
we'll explore listening at level two,
20
00:01:08,700 --> 00:01:10,830
listening to their content.
21
00:01:10,830 --> 00:01:14,103
What you hear, see, and sense.
22
00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:18,630
And for a bit of fun,
we'll also explore how one
23
00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:21,660
of the world's best tennis
players, Andre Agassi,
24
00:01:21,660 --> 00:01:25,410
noticed something in Boris
Becker's body language
25
00:01:25,410 --> 00:01:29,310
that he could see unlike all
the other tennis professionals,
26
00:01:29,310 --> 00:01:33,330
and was able to decode the
signal to his advantage.
27
00:01:33,330 --> 00:01:37,530
Listening at level two,
listening to the content,
28
00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:42,090
it's three dimensional what
you hear, see, and sense.
29
00:01:42,090 --> 00:01:45,360
Today we're gonna focus
on the second dimension,
30
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,963
listening to their
content and what you see.
31
00:01:49,821 --> 00:01:53,826
Some people refer to this
dimension as body language
32
00:01:53,826 --> 00:01:55,833
or nonverbal signals.
33
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,710
It's foundational and most
people oversimplify it
34
00:02:01,710 --> 00:02:04,533
and misjudge the content that they see.
35
00:02:05,970 --> 00:02:08,730
I spent some time diving
into the database,
36
00:02:08,730 --> 00:02:12,780
where we've got over 30,000
responses from people
37
00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:14,670
who describe what they struggle with
38
00:02:14,670 --> 00:02:16,740
when it comes to their listening.
39
00:02:16,740 --> 00:02:20,130
You can visit listening
quiz.com and take the assessment
40
00:02:20,130 --> 00:02:23,190
and find out what's getting in your way.
41
00:02:23,190 --> 00:02:24,590
Here's some of the comments.
42
00:02:25,530 --> 00:02:28,260
How do I even pick up on body language?
43
00:02:28,260 --> 00:02:32,760
I struggle to understand
what nonverbal cues are.
44
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:37,290
It's challenging to decipher
nonverbal cues in video
45
00:02:37,290 --> 00:02:40,380
conferences like Microsoft Teams.
46
00:02:40,380 --> 00:02:42,930
I get distracted by their body language
47
00:02:42,930 --> 00:02:44,910
and facial features when they're talking.
48
00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:48,840
What do I interpret when
somebody provides me
49
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,510
with a blank facial expression?
50
00:02:51,510 --> 00:02:54,990
I'm sure you can relate to
some if not all of these,
51
00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:57,180
about barriers that are getting in the way
52
00:02:57,180 --> 00:03:01,500
when we're listening on the
second dimension at level two,
53
00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:05,220
what we see, look just a little caution
54
00:03:05,220 --> 00:03:09,240
before we continue with body
language and nonverbal signals,
55
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:14,240
a reminder, to advance and
be effective at level two,
56
00:03:15,420 --> 00:03:20,043
you need to have mastered level
one, listening to yourself.
57
00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:23,550
It's important that you master level one,
58
00:03:23,550 --> 00:03:28,550
so you can sustain effective
listening at level two.
59
00:03:28,590 --> 00:03:31,740
Otherwise, people describe
listening at this level
60
00:03:31,740 --> 00:03:36,363
as difficult, draining, distracting.
61
00:03:37,410 --> 00:03:39,630
Please make sure you've got your level one
62
00:03:39,630 --> 00:03:41,253
fundamentals in place.
63
00:03:43,230 --> 00:03:46,560
Now, level two is about what they say
64
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,500
and how they say it.
65
00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:51,450
It may be the difference between
66
00:03:51,450 --> 00:03:55,590
how they tell stories versus
when they use statistics.
67
00:03:55,590 --> 00:03:56,910
They may lead with one
68
00:03:56,910 --> 00:04:01,470
or another in a typical dialogue with you
69
00:04:01,470 --> 00:04:05,790
and their facial expressions
should be congruent with that.
70
00:04:05,790 --> 00:04:08,520
Does their face light up more
when they're telling the story
71
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,580
or when they're delivering the statistics?
72
00:04:11,580 --> 00:04:14,620
I want to share with you an
extract from chapter four
73
00:04:15,630 --> 00:04:20,377
of the book "How to Listen,"
where we unpack the concept
74
00:04:20,377 --> 00:04:22,126
of body language.
75
00:04:22,126 --> 00:04:25,126
(droplets plinking)
76
00:04:26,250 --> 00:04:31,230
Body language, visual
signals from the speaker
77
00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:34,105
are commonly referred to as body language.
78
00:04:34,105 --> 00:04:36,886
Consider this hierarchy as a way
79
00:04:36,886 --> 00:04:39,634
to start noticing body language
80
00:04:39,634 --> 00:04:41,850
and when you feel comfortable
81
00:04:41,850 --> 00:04:44,580
that you have increased your
awareness at this level,
82
00:04:44,580 --> 00:04:46,650
progress to the next.
83
00:04:46,650 --> 00:04:51,650
First the face, then posture,
and finally breathing.
84
00:04:52,050 --> 00:04:55,470
Paul Ekman is the foundational
scholar of body language.
85
00:04:55,470 --> 00:04:57,360
He's authored 14 books
86
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,360
and defined seven universal
facial expressions,
87
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,820
anger, contempt, disgust, fear, happiness,
88
00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:08,730
sadness, and surprise.
89
00:05:08,730 --> 00:05:13,620
Ekman breaks these down much
further into micro expressions.
90
00:05:13,620 --> 00:05:16,530
These micro expressions are influenced
91
00:05:16,530 --> 00:05:21,530
by facial muscles including
the eyes, the eyebrows,
92
00:05:21,750 --> 00:05:24,374
nose, cheeks, and lips.
93
00:05:24,374 --> 00:05:28,320
Throughout his work, Ekman
reinforces that the alignment
94
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,170
between these facial and body expressions
95
00:05:31,170 --> 00:05:34,950
is the essence of reading body language.
96
00:05:34,950 --> 00:05:39,510
Don't become too obsessed
or fixated on individual
97
00:05:39,510 --> 00:05:42,390
micro level body language signals.
98
00:05:42,390 --> 00:05:45,870
Ironically, this will distract
you from your listening.
99
00:05:45,870 --> 00:05:49,461
Notice the disconnect
between what they say
100
00:05:49,461 --> 00:05:52,020
and how their face look.
101
00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:55,860
I interviewed Susan Constantine,
who studied under Ekman
102
00:05:55,860 --> 00:06:00,060
and has applied her
focus in legal disputes
103
00:06:00,060 --> 00:06:01,770
and law enforcement.
104
00:06:01,770 --> 00:06:03,660
She reminded me of the fallacy
105
00:06:03,660 --> 00:06:08,563
of being fixated on one
element of body language.
106
00:06:08,563 --> 00:06:11,430
(droplets plinking)
107
00:06:11,430 --> 00:06:15,540
And as humans looking at the
microexpressions of others,
108
00:06:15,540 --> 00:06:18,840
we pick up those cues
subconsciously ourselves.
109
00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:21,300
- There's a lot of
research around that too
110
00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:23,790
that people might look at
someone across from them
111
00:06:23,790 --> 00:06:27,030
and saying, "Is there something
wrong? Are you mad at me?"
112
00:06:27,030 --> 00:06:29,040
Now, why would they know that?
113
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:29,940
How would they know that?
114
00:06:29,940 --> 00:06:31,950
That's because their facial expression is
115
00:06:31,950 --> 00:06:32,970
different from their norm.
116
00:06:32,970 --> 00:06:36,240
It's more tightened. Their
eyebrows are more narrowed.
117
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,370
Their facial expression looks more tense,
118
00:06:38,370 --> 00:06:41,490
so naturally human beings can pick up
119
00:06:41,490 --> 00:06:44,250
on certain expressions,
120
00:06:44,250 --> 00:06:47,241
but what they're not
really good at doing is
121
00:06:47,241 --> 00:06:49,500
decoding them accurately,
122
00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:54,500
because environment situations
can affect those emotions.
123
00:06:54,510 --> 00:06:57,060
You don't know what happened five minutes
124
00:06:57,060 --> 00:06:59,490
before that person walked into the office.
125
00:06:59,490 --> 00:07:02,550
You don't know if that person
was on a phone call with one
126
00:07:02,550 --> 00:07:04,080
of their kids or their wife
127
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,840
or somebody else that
created that expression,
128
00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:08,760
that emotion that they had.
129
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,140
But what we do know is
130
00:07:10,140 --> 00:07:13,770
that emotions are
written all over our face
131
00:07:13,770 --> 00:07:17,640
and they can be read by the
human eye if you know how
132
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,670
to decode it properly, but
you have to be trained.
133
00:07:20,670 --> 00:07:25,560
I really caution people to
make observations about others
134
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,740
and decode it on their own
without the proper training
135
00:07:28,740 --> 00:07:30,450
because research has told us
136
00:07:30,450 --> 00:07:34,050
that about 50% at best are
people at reading people.
137
00:07:34,050 --> 00:07:37,490
It's their luck is
about us flipping a coin
138
00:07:37,490 --> 00:07:41,190
and that includes federal law enforcement,
139
00:07:41,190 --> 00:07:45,240
clinical psychologists, and
I train federal court judges.
140
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,770
I can tell you right now,
141
00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:49,230
most of them can't detect deception.
142
00:07:49,230 --> 00:07:51,180
They get very skewed
because they're watching
143
00:07:51,180 --> 00:07:52,860
so many people lying to them.
144
00:07:52,860 --> 00:07:55,050
They assume that
everybody's lying to them.
145
00:07:55,050 --> 00:07:58,050
They pick up on one clue,
automatically they're lying.
146
00:07:58,050 --> 00:08:00,660
But you can really misread people,
147
00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:04,260
because there are certain
people in certain situations,
148
00:08:04,260 --> 00:08:07,290
if a person was never brought
into the office before
149
00:08:07,290 --> 00:08:10,230
and they're gonna be
reprimanded by their boss,
150
00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:13,830
and since that's never happened,
that could create anxiety
151
00:08:13,830 --> 00:08:16,770
and they could show all kinds
of physiological changes
152
00:08:16,770 --> 00:08:18,240
in their facial expressions
153
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:19,830
and their body language.
154
00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:21,300
That could be a misread just
155
00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:24,423
because of the entire
environment was unfamiliar.
156
00:08:27,330 --> 00:08:30,360
- I want to reinforce becoming
an expert at reading eye
157
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,860
movements and facial
expressions is a full-time job,
158
00:08:34,860 --> 00:08:38,310
and when it comes to noticing
facial expressions, your role
159
00:08:38,310 --> 00:08:41,357
as a listener is to become present enough
160
00:08:41,357 --> 00:08:45,362
to see any disconnect between
their face, their posture,
161
00:08:45,362 --> 00:08:48,780
their breathing, and what they say.
162
00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:51,150
When I was working with my client, Rachel,
163
00:08:51,150 --> 00:08:53,021
I noticed her body language
164
00:08:53,021 --> 00:08:58,021
and provided her with greater
insight into what was said,
165
00:08:58,770 --> 00:09:01,110
thought and meant.
166
00:09:01,110 --> 00:09:03,480
She was responsible for
the merger integration
167
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:08,480
of two different sized companies
in the finance industry.
168
00:09:08,490 --> 00:09:12,186
The acquiring company
was four times larger
169
00:09:12,186 --> 00:09:14,520
than the other company.
170
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,980
After three months of working together,
171
00:09:16,980 --> 00:09:20,010
we met up on the 32nd floor
172
00:09:20,010 --> 00:09:22,920
of the commercial business
district head office
173
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,560
building she was in.
174
00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:28,140
As the meeting started, I asked
175
00:09:28,140 --> 00:09:30,870
what would make this a
great meeting for you.
176
00:09:30,870 --> 00:09:34,260
Rachel launched into a familiar
pattern about the struggle
177
00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:37,230
around the merger integration,
how no one understood
178
00:09:37,230 --> 00:09:38,749
how difficult it was
179
00:09:38,749 --> 00:09:42,330
and whether she cared about the outcome.
180
00:09:42,330 --> 00:09:46,140
Rachel had created a
story that it's unfair
181
00:09:46,140 --> 00:09:49,740
for the person from the acquired company
182
00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:54,540
to lead the integration into
the acquiring organization.
183
00:09:54,540 --> 00:09:58,650
She felt that the acquiring
organization should do it.
184
00:09:58,650 --> 00:10:01,110
The dialogue continued for 10 minutes.
185
00:10:01,110 --> 00:10:06,110
Yet at the seven minute
mark, Rachel paused,
186
00:10:06,390 --> 00:10:11,250
took a deep breath, her spine
and shoulders changed position
187
00:10:11,250 --> 00:10:16,250
and then she continued speaking
until she was exhausted
188
00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:18,600
by her own story.
189
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,810
I noticed the disconnect
between what she was saying
190
00:10:21,810 --> 00:10:24,780
and her body at the seven minute mark.
191
00:10:24,780 --> 00:10:25,890
I made a mental note
192
00:10:25,890 --> 00:10:28,327
to reflect this back to Rachel.
193
00:10:28,327 --> 00:10:32,550
"When you took a breath,
what happened?" I asked.
194
00:10:32,550 --> 00:10:33,930
Rachel said...
195
00:10:33,930 --> 00:10:35,943
- Took a breath. When?
196
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,967
- Here I could have replied
instantly saying something like
197
00:10:39,967 --> 00:10:42,750
"At the seven minute
mark when you said..."
198
00:10:42,750 --> 00:10:45,720
Instead I paused
199
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,270
and took a deep breath myself
200
00:10:48,270 --> 00:10:51,180
as I silently mirrored her body language.
201
00:10:51,180 --> 00:10:53,070
In response, Rachel said...
202
00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:55,890
- I was frustrated with being frustrated.
203
00:10:55,890 --> 00:10:58,860
I paused and realized that
I'm draining myself of energy
204
00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:01,110
by rehashing this issue.
205
00:11:01,110 --> 00:11:05,400
It's time, I can stay
frustrated or change,
206
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,380
although that's not what I said.
207
00:11:07,380 --> 00:11:10,143
I had to verbalize every remaining excuse.
208
00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:12,603
I want to move forward.
209
00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:15,810
- Ultimately, when you
notice the disconnection
210
00:11:15,810 --> 00:11:16,980
between their words
211
00:11:16,980 --> 00:11:20,550
and their body language,
it's not about you.
212
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:24,060
It's about helping the speaker understand
213
00:11:24,060 --> 00:11:26,550
what has altered in their thinking.
214
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:31,455
Be present to notice the
disconnect between what they say
215
00:11:31,455 --> 00:11:33,963
and how it shows up in their bodies.
216
00:11:35,422 --> 00:11:37,230
(droplets plinking)
217
00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:41,767
If you want to hear more or
read more about the book,
218
00:11:41,767 --> 00:11:45,780
"How to Listen," and
it's now won four awards
219
00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:50,460
across the globe and over
a hundred wonderful reviews
220
00:11:50,460 --> 00:11:52,920
on Amazon and Goodreads.
221
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,120
Thank you to everybody who's
222
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,690
provided their reviews about the book.
223
00:11:57,690 --> 00:12:02,010
If you go to
oscartrimboli.com/how to listen,
224
00:12:02,010 --> 00:12:04,020
no matter which country
in the world you're in,
225
00:12:04,020 --> 00:12:07,524
we'll provide the coordinates
for how you can get
226
00:12:07,524 --> 00:12:09,500
your hands on a copy of the book
227
00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:14,463
or you can listen via your
favorite audiobook platform.
228
00:12:15,630 --> 00:12:20,630
If you'd like to hear the
full episode of Susan and I,
229
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,640
visit oscartrimboli.com/podcast/066.
230
00:12:27,390 --> 00:12:31,050
That's episode 66 with Susan and I,
231
00:12:31,050 --> 00:12:34,380
and you can listen to the
complete episode there.
232
00:12:34,380 --> 00:12:36,570
The point Susan's made is reinforced
233
00:12:36,570 --> 00:12:40,177
by Robin Drake from episode 77,
234
00:12:40,177 --> 00:12:42,240
"The Secrets of Listening Like a Spy"
235
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,997
and Episode 85 with Michael Grinder,
236
00:12:45,997 --> 00:12:50,997
"Hidden Secrets Of How To
Listen For The Nonverbals."
237
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,020
Both explain the concept
of baselining body language
238
00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:56,820
and nonverbals, and the importance
239
00:12:56,820 --> 00:12:59,613
of noticing variation or congruence.
240
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,960
I thought I would share
Robin's point first
241
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,663
and then Michael will
follow up immediately after.
242
00:13:07,932 --> 00:13:10,932
(droplets plinking)
243
00:13:15,090 --> 00:13:18,060
- I used to be a nonverbal expert.
244
00:13:18,060 --> 00:13:20,880
I only looked at nonverbals
when interacting from the tip
245
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,200
of the toes to the top of the head.
246
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:27,200
But over the years my
focus became on interacting
247
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,630
with human beings in the
general and to make alignments
248
00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:33,990
of relationships, I can't
be watching your entire body
249
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:36,060
and also listening to your words
250
00:13:36,060 --> 00:13:37,800
'cause the words to me are
much more important than
251
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,060
everything your body is saying.
252
00:13:39,060 --> 00:13:42,060
I now focus mostly
completely really on the face
253
00:13:42,060 --> 00:13:44,027
and anything that comes
in within proximity of it
254
00:13:44,027 --> 00:13:46,230
if you have hand movements
up there or something.
255
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:48,450
And breathing will
definitely be part of that.
256
00:13:48,450 --> 00:13:51,930
I won't notice breathing
unless it is outside
257
00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:53,730
of a basic norm is a good way to put it.
258
00:13:53,730 --> 00:13:56,970
Same thing with eye blink
rates, flutters, lip movements.
259
00:13:56,970 --> 00:13:58,230
When you first meet someone,
260
00:13:58,230 --> 00:14:01,320
your body naturally establishes
a nonverbal baseline for
261
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,450
that individual and then during the course
262
00:14:03,450 --> 00:14:07,170
of the conversation, you're
gonna start identifying things
263
00:14:07,170 --> 00:14:09,300
that are now becoming
incongruent with what's normal
264
00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:11,613
for them during that
baseline establishment.
265
00:14:12,777 --> 00:14:15,600
(droplets plinking)
266
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,183
- The baseline of what
do most people look like,
267
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,560
what most people sound
like, how they move,
268
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,570
and literally how they breathe.
269
00:14:24,570 --> 00:14:27,990
And once you have that as a baseline,
270
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:32,990
I would strongly suggest that
anytime there is a change
271
00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:35,700
in terms of speed
272
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:38,850
or volume increase in the voice,
273
00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:41,160
the person is marking off
274
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,350
that whatever they're
saying is they would really
275
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:45,048
like you to hear that.
276
00:14:45,048 --> 00:14:48,540
(serene music)
277
00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:53,540
Whatever they say that's a
constant, face, voice, body,
278
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:56,700
that's really the baseline.
279
00:14:56,700 --> 00:15:00,060
It's the background, it's the noise.
280
00:15:00,060 --> 00:15:03,510
If you wanna know the
foreground, they'll mark it off.
281
00:15:03,510 --> 00:15:08,010
In most of the Western world,
when you increase your volume
282
00:15:08,010 --> 00:15:11,733
and your voice, you're
trying to become emphatic.
283
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:15,810
If you decrease your
volume and your voice,
284
00:15:15,810 --> 00:15:17,370
you're marking off.
285
00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:20,910
But I wanna suggest it's a
deeper level of the human being.
286
00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:25,910
A drop of volume and speed
oftentimes is more vulnerability.
287
00:15:26,209 --> 00:15:29,340
(droplets plinking)
288
00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:32,220
- When you can listen to the
nonverbal signals effectively
289
00:15:32,220 --> 00:15:35,310
without draining or
drawing your attention away
290
00:15:35,310 --> 00:15:36,750
from what they're saying,
291
00:15:36,750 --> 00:15:40,770
you'll create a much bigger
impact for them and for you.
292
00:15:40,770 --> 00:15:42,420
Earlier on, we mentioned we're going
293
00:15:42,420 --> 00:15:46,200
to take a little detour
into the world of tennis.
294
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,700
It's extremely related
to nonverbal signals.
295
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:55,260
In 1988, Andre Agassi, only 18 years old,
296
00:15:55,260 --> 00:15:59,640
was facing Boris Becker,
who was 21 at the time,
297
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:00,960
and it was a semifinal
298
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,750
of the Indian Wells Tennis Tournament.
299
00:16:03,750 --> 00:16:07,050
Despite a hard fought three set match,
300
00:16:07,050 --> 00:16:10,833
Agassi was defeated 7-5 in the final set.
301
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:13,530
For those who followed
tennis, they'll tell you
302
00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:17,100
that was a really
difficult and close match.
303
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:21,567
The pair met each other again in 1989,
304
00:16:21,567 --> 00:16:25,380
and both times Becker again was successful
305
00:16:25,380 --> 00:16:26,733
in defeating Agassi.
306
00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:30,900
Yet in 1990 something changed,
307
00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:34,320
and for the next eight
consecutive matches,
308
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,550
Agassi beat Becker every single time.
309
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:43,470
Just like business, there
are many variables in tennis,
310
00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:47,310
yet I think you'll enjoy
Andre Agassi's explanation
311
00:16:47,310 --> 00:16:50,820
of why he thinks he defeated Becker
312
00:16:50,820 --> 00:16:54,181
over this five-year run.
313
00:16:54,181 --> 00:16:56,610
(droplets plinking)
314
00:16:56,610 --> 00:16:59,610
- Tennis is about problem solving
315
00:16:59,610 --> 00:17:03,780
and you can't problem solve
unless you have the ability
316
00:17:03,780 --> 00:17:06,333
or the empathy to perceive
all that's around you.
317
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:10,140
The more you understand
what the problem is
318
00:17:10,140 --> 00:17:12,240
through other people's
lens, the more you can solve
319
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,880
for people in life and in visions.
320
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,610
Boris Becker beat me the
first three times we played
321
00:17:17,610 --> 00:17:19,650
'cause his serve was something the game
322
00:17:19,650 --> 00:17:21,540
had never seen before.
323
00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:23,160
I watched tape after tape of him
324
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,160
and stood across the net from
him three different times,
325
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,140
and I started to realize he had this weird
326
00:17:28,140 --> 00:17:29,640
tick with his tongue.
327
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:30,473
I'm not kidding.
328
00:17:30,473 --> 00:17:32,280
He would go into his rocking motion,
329
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,230
his same routine,
330
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:35,970
and just as he was about to toss the ball,
331
00:17:35,970 --> 00:17:37,440
he would stick his tongue out
332
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,500
and it would either be right
in the middle of his lip
333
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:42,990
or it would be to the
left corner of his lip.
334
00:17:42,990 --> 00:17:44,910
If he's serving in the deuce court,
335
00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:47,040
and he put his tongue in
the middle of his lip,
336
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,583
he was either serving up
the middle or to the body,
337
00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:54,810
but if he put it to the side,
he was gonna serve out wide.
338
00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:56,940
The hardest part wasn't returning a serve.
339
00:17:56,940 --> 00:18:00,270
The hardest part was not letting
him know that I knew this.
340
00:18:00,270 --> 00:18:03,960
I had to resist the temptation
of reading his serve
341
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,640
for the majority of the match
342
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,950
and choose the moments
when I was gonna use
343
00:18:07,950 --> 00:18:12,120
that information on a given
point to execute the shot
344
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:14,790
that would allow me to
break the match open.
345
00:18:14,790 --> 00:18:16,500
That was a difficulty with worse.
346
00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:18,600
I didn't have a problem
breaking the serve.
347
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,150
I had a problem hiding the fact
348
00:18:21,150 --> 00:18:22,890
that I could break his serve at will
349
00:18:22,890 --> 00:18:24,210
'cause I just didn't want him
350
00:18:24,210 --> 00:18:26,070
to keep that tongue in his mouth.
351
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:27,810
I wanted it to keep coming out.
352
00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:30,807
I told Boris about this
after he was retired
353
00:18:30,807 --> 00:18:35,340
'cause I just showed really
good judgment from my own self
354
00:18:35,340 --> 00:18:37,710
preservation and didn't
share this with him before.
355
00:18:37,710 --> 00:18:39,450
We went out in Oktoberfest in Germany
356
00:18:39,450 --> 00:18:41,640
and had a pint of beer
together and I couldn't help
357
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,020
but say, you know, you used
358
00:18:43,020 --> 00:18:44,820
to do this and give when you served.
359
00:18:44,820 --> 00:18:47,190
He about fell off the chair
360
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:51,060
and he says, I used to
go home all the time
361
00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:53,430
and just tell my wife,
362
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:55,803
it's like he reads my mind.
363
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,650
And he said to me,
364
00:18:58,650 --> 00:19:01,733
little did I know you were
just reading my tongue.
365
00:19:01,733 --> 00:19:04,170
(droplets plinking)
366
00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:07,680
- Whether you're a
tennis enthusiast or not,
367
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,320
I think the lesson is simple.
368
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,530
Everybody is sending out
nonverbal signals when they're
369
00:19:13,530 --> 00:19:17,640
performing their work, when
they're in dialogue with you,
370
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,410
and everybody who's watching can see
371
00:19:22,410 --> 00:19:24,063
these nonverbal signals.
372
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:29,960
Yet it takes a very attuned, deep listener
373
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,623
to decipher these signals
to improve performance.
374
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,400
I think every other tennis professional
375
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,963
who played Becker would've
seen his tongue move,
376
00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:47,910
yet it was only Agassi, who
was able to decipher that
377
00:19:47,910 --> 00:19:51,303
and use that in a way that
was effective for him.
378
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:57,150
If you'd like to learn more
about these skills at level two,
379
00:19:57,150 --> 00:19:58,710
not how to improve your tennis,
380
00:19:58,710 --> 00:20:01,020
but how to improve your listening,
381
00:20:01,020 --> 00:20:03,570
we've got a dedicated
course where you can come
382
00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:07,260
and practice your listening
and speaking with others.
383
00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:12,260
If you visit
oscartrimboli.com/fundamentals,
384
00:20:12,510 --> 00:20:14,370
you can register for the course.
385
00:20:14,370 --> 00:20:16,710
I'd love to listen to you.
386
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:19,290
Email podcast@oscartrimboli.com
387
00:20:19,290 --> 00:20:22,170
with the subject line, body language
388
00:20:22,170 --> 00:20:25,230
and in the body of your email
389
00:20:25,230 --> 00:20:28,500
what will you do different
as a result of listening
390
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:29,850
to this episode?
391
00:20:29,850 --> 00:20:33,750
Often I get emails from people
with just the subject line
392
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:36,270
and I immediately reply to them, well,
393
00:20:36,270 --> 00:20:37,740
what will you do differently?
394
00:20:37,740 --> 00:20:41,250
Because they've left a blank
in the body of the email.
395
00:20:41,250 --> 00:20:43,650
So that's podcast@oscartrimboli.com
396
00:20:43,650 --> 00:20:46,260
with the subject line body language.
397
00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:48,570
What will you do different as a result
398
00:20:48,570 --> 00:20:49,920
of listening to this episode?
399
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,660
Or more importantly,
400
00:20:51,660 --> 00:20:54,620
what should I have
added into this episode?
401
00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:55,890
Or what would you have liked me
402
00:20:55,890 --> 00:20:58,110
to have covered in this episode,
403
00:20:58,110 --> 00:21:00,360
so that you could become more effective
404
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,160
in the second dimension at level two
405
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,583
listening to their content what you see.
406
00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:12,120
I'm Oscar Trimboli
407
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:14,580
and along with the Deep
Listening Ambassador community,
408
00:21:14,580 --> 00:21:18,030
we're on a quest to create
100 million deep listeners
409
00:21:18,030 --> 00:21:20,370
in the workplace, and you have given us
410
00:21:20,370 --> 00:21:21,810
the greatest gift of all.
411
00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:24,903
You've listened to us.
Thanks for listening.
412
00:21:26,591 --> 00:21:29,758
(serene violin music)
413
00:21:37,617 --> 00:21:41,200
(violin music intensifies)
00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:03,570
- I told Boris about this
after he was retired.
2
00:00:03,570 --> 00:00:05,340
We went out in Oktoberfest in Germany
3
00:00:05,340 --> 00:00:07,530
and had a pint of beer
together and I couldn't help
4
00:00:07,530 --> 00:00:09,390
but say, "You know, you used to do this
5
00:00:09,390 --> 00:00:10,680
and give away your serve."
6
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,599
He about fell off the chair
7
00:00:12,599 --> 00:00:16,920
and he says, "I used
to go home all the time
8
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,290
and just tell my wife.
9
00:00:19,290 --> 00:00:21,747
It's like he reads my mind,"
10
00:00:22,740 --> 00:00:24,427
and he said to me,
11
00:00:24,427 --> 00:00:27,027
"Little did I know you were
just reading my tongue."
12
00:00:28,632 --> 00:00:31,299
(upbeat music)
13
00:00:49,530 --> 00:00:51,210
- The significant consequences
14
00:00:51,210 --> 00:00:54,003
when you can decode nonverbal signals.
15
00:00:56,550 --> 00:00:58,500
When you can listen beyond the words,
16
00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:00,810
you can hear more about what they think
17
00:01:00,810 --> 00:01:02,460
and what they mean.
18
00:01:02,460 --> 00:01:05,370
In this episode of Deep
Listening Impact Beyond Words,
19
00:01:05,370 --> 00:01:08,700
we'll explore listening at level two,
20
00:01:08,700 --> 00:01:10,830
listening to their content.
21
00:01:10,830 --> 00:01:14,103
What you hear, see, and sense.
22
00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:18,630
And for a bit of fun,
we'll also explore how one
23
00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:21,660
of the world's best tennis
players, Andre Agassi,
24
00:01:21,660 --> 00:01:25,410
noticed something in Boris
Becker's body language
25
00:01:25,410 --> 00:01:29,310
that he could see unlike all
the other tennis professionals,
26
00:01:29,310 --> 00:01:33,330
and was able to decode the
signal to his advantage.
27
00:01:33,330 --> 00:01:37,530
Listening at level two,
listening to the content,
28
00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:42,090
it's three dimensional what
you hear, see, and sense.
29
00:01:42,090 --> 00:01:45,360
Today we're gonna focus
on the second dimension,
30
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,963
listening to their
content and what you see.
31
00:01:49,821 --> 00:01:53,826
Some people refer to this
dimension as body language
32
00:01:53,826 --> 00:01:55,833
or nonverbal signals.
33
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,710
It's foundational and most
people oversimplify it
34
00:02:01,710 --> 00:02:04,533
and misjudge the content that they see.
35
00:02:05,970 --> 00:02:08,730
I spent some time diving
into the database,
36
00:02:08,730 --> 00:02:12,780
where we've got over 30,000
responses from people
37
00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:14,670
who describe what they struggle with
38
00:02:14,670 --> 00:02:16,740
when it comes to their listening.
39
00:02:16,740 --> 00:02:20,130
You can visit listening
quiz.com and take the assessment
40
00:02:20,130 --> 00:02:23,190
and find out what's getting in your way.
41
00:02:23,190 --> 00:02:24,590
Here's some of the comments.
42
00:02:25,530 --> 00:02:28,260
How do I even pick up on body language?
43
00:02:28,260 --> 00:02:32,760
I struggle to understand
what nonverbal cues are.
44
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:37,290
It's challenging to decipher
nonverbal cues in video
45
00:02:37,290 --> 00:02:40,380
conferences like Microsoft Teams.
46
00:02:40,380 --> 00:02:42,930
I get distracted by their body language
47
00:02:42,930 --> 00:02:44,910
and facial features when they're talking.
48
00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:48,840
What do I interpret when
somebody provides me
49
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,510
with a blank facial expression?
50
00:02:51,510 --> 00:02:54,990
I'm sure you can relate to
some if not all of these,
51
00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:57,180
about barriers that are getting in the way
52
00:02:57,180 --> 00:03:01,500
when we're listening on the
second dimension at level two,
53
00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:05,220
what we see, look just a little caution
54
00:03:05,220 --> 00:03:09,240
before we continue with body
language and nonverbal signals,
55
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:14,240
a reminder, to advance and
be effective at level two,
56
00:03:15,420 --> 00:03:20,043
you need to have mastered level
one, listening to yourself.
57
00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:23,550
It's important that you master level one,
58
00:03:23,550 --> 00:03:28,550
so you can sustain effective
listening at level two.
59
00:03:28,590 --> 00:03:31,740
Otherwise, people describe
listening at this level
60
00:03:31,740 --> 00:03:36,363
as difficult, draining, distracting.
61
00:03:37,410 --> 00:03:39,630
Please make sure you've got your level one
62
00:03:39,630 --> 00:03:41,253
fundamentals in place.
63
00:03:43,230 --> 00:03:46,560
Now, level two is about what they say
64
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,500
and how they say it.
65
00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:51,450
It may be the difference between
66
00:03:51,450 --> 00:03:55,590
how they tell stories versus
when they use statistics.
67
00:03:55,590 --> 00:03:56,910
They may lead with one
68
00:03:56,910 --> 00:04:01,470
or another in a typical dialogue with you
69
00:04:01,470 --> 00:04:05,790
and their facial expressions
should be congruent with that.
70
00:04:05,790 --> 00:04:08,520
Does their face light up more
when they're telling the story
71
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,580
or when they're delivering the statistics?
72
00:04:11,580 --> 00:04:14,620
I want to share with you an
extract from chapter four
73
00:04:15,630 --> 00:04:20,377
of the book "How to Listen,"
where we unpack the concept
74
00:04:20,377 --> 00:04:22,126
of body language.
75
00:04:22,126 --> 00:04:25,126
(droplets plinking)
76
00:04:26,250 --> 00:04:31,230
Body language, visual
signals from the speaker
77
00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:34,105
are commonly referred to as body language.
78
00:04:34,105 --> 00:04:36,886
Consider this hierarchy as a way
79
00:04:36,886 --> 00:04:39,634
to start noticing body language
80
00:04:39,634 --> 00:04:41,850
and when you feel comfortable
81
00:04:41,850 --> 00:04:44,580
that you have increased your
awareness at this level,
82
00:04:44,580 --> 00:04:46,650
progress to the next.
83
00:04:46,650 --> 00:04:51,650
First the face, then posture,
and finally breathing.
84
00:04:52,050 --> 00:04:55,470
Paul Ekman is the foundational
scholar of body language.
85
00:04:55,470 --> 00:04:57,360
He's authored 14 books
86
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,360
and defined seven universal
facial expressions,
87
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,820
anger, contempt, disgust, fear, happiness,
88
00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:08,730
sadness, and surprise.
89
00:05:08,730 --> 00:05:13,620
Ekman breaks these down much
further into micro expressions.
90
00:05:13,620 --> 00:05:16,530
These micro expressions are influenced
91
00:05:16,530 --> 00:05:21,530
by facial muscles including
the eyes, the eyebrows,
92
00:05:21,750 --> 00:05:24,374
nose, cheeks, and lips.
93
00:05:24,374 --> 00:05:28,320
Throughout his work, Ekman
reinforces that the alignment
94
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,170
between these facial and body expressions
95
00:05:31,170 --> 00:05:34,950
is the essence of reading body language.
96
00:05:34,950 --> 00:05:39,510
Don't become too obsessed
or fixated on individual
97
00:05:39,510 --> 00:05:42,390
micro level body language signals.
98
00:05:42,390 --> 00:05:45,870
Ironically, this will distract
you from your listening.
99
00:05:45,870 --> 00:05:49,461
Notice the disconnect
between what they say
100
00:05:49,461 --> 00:05:52,020
and how their face look.
101
00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:55,860
I interviewed Susan Constantine,
who studied under Ekman
102
00:05:55,860 --> 00:06:00,060
and has applied her
focus in legal disputes
103
00:06:00,060 --> 00:06:01,770
and law enforcement.
104
00:06:01,770 --> 00:06:03,660
She reminded me of the fallacy
105
00:06:03,660 --> 00:06:08,563
of being fixated on one
element of body language.
106
00:06:08,563 --> 00:06:11,430
(droplets plinking)
107
00:06:11,430 --> 00:06:15,540
And as humans looking at the
microexpressions of others,
108
00:06:15,540 --> 00:06:18,840
we pick up those cues
subconsciously ourselves.
109
00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:21,300
- There's a lot of
research around that too
110
00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:23,790
that people might look at
someone across from them
111
00:06:23,790 --> 00:06:27,030
and saying, "Is there something
wrong? Are you mad at me?"
112
00:06:27,030 --> 00:06:29,040
Now, why would they know that?
113
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:29,940
How would they know that?
114
00:06:29,940 --> 00:06:31,950
That's because their facial expression is
115
00:06:31,950 --> 00:06:32,970
different from their norm.
116
00:06:32,970 --> 00:06:36,240
It's more tightened. Their
eyebrows are more narrowed.
117
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,370
Their facial expression looks more tense,
118
00:06:38,370 --> 00:06:41,490
so naturally human beings can pick up
119
00:06:41,490 --> 00:06:44,250
on certain expressions,
120
00:06:44,250 --> 00:06:47,241
but what they're not
really good at doing is
121
00:06:47,241 --> 00:06:49,500
decoding them accurately,
122
00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:54,500
because environment situations
can affect those emotions.
123
00:06:54,510 --> 00:06:57,060
You don't know what happened five minutes
124
00:06:57,060 --> 00:06:59,490
before that person walked into the office.
125
00:06:59,490 --> 00:07:02,550
You don't know if that person
was on a phone call with one
126
00:07:02,550 --> 00:07:04,080
of their kids or their wife
127
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,840
or somebody else that
created that expression,
128
00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:08,760
that emotion that they had.
129
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,140
But what we do know is
130
00:07:10,140 --> 00:07:13,770
that emotions are
written all over our face
131
00:07:13,770 --> 00:07:17,640
and they can be read by the
human eye if you know how
132
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,670
to decode it properly, but
you have to be trained.
133
00:07:20,670 --> 00:07:25,560
I really caution people to
make observations about others
134
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,740
and decode it on their own
without the proper training
135
00:07:28,740 --> 00:07:30,450
because research has told us
136
00:07:30,450 --> 00:07:34,050
that about 50% at best are
people at reading people.
137
00:07:34,050 --> 00:07:37,490
It's their luck is
about us flipping a coin
138
00:07:37,490 --> 00:07:41,190
and that includes federal law enforcement,
139
00:07:41,190 --> 00:07:45,240
clinical psychologists, and
I train federal court judges.
140
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,770
I can tell you right now,
141
00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:49,230
most of them can't detect deception.
142
00:07:49,230 --> 00:07:51,180
They get very skewed
because they're watching
143
00:07:51,180 --> 00:07:52,860
so many people lying to them.
144
00:07:52,860 --> 00:07:55,050
They assume that
everybody's lying to them.
145
00:07:55,050 --> 00:07:58,050
They pick up on one clue,
automatically they're lying.
146
00:07:58,050 --> 00:08:00,660
But you can really misread people,
147
00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:04,260
because there are certain
people in certain situations,
148
00:08:04,260 --> 00:08:07,290
if a person was never brought
into the office before
149
00:08:07,290 --> 00:08:10,230
and they're gonna be
reprimanded by their boss,
150
00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:13,830
and since that's never happened,
that could create anxiety
151
00:08:13,830 --> 00:08:16,770
and they could show all kinds
of physiological changes
152
00:08:16,770 --> 00:08:18,240
in their facial expressions
153
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:19,830
and their body language.
154
00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:21,300
That could be a misread just
155
00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:24,423
because of the entire
environment was unfamiliar.
156
00:08:27,330 --> 00:08:30,360
- I want to reinforce becoming
an expert at reading eye
157
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,860
movements and facial
expressions is a full-time job,
158
00:08:34,860 --> 00:08:38,310
and when it comes to noticing
facial expressions, your role
159
00:08:38,310 --> 00:08:41,357
as a listener is to become present enough
160
00:08:41,357 --> 00:08:45,362
to see any disconnect between
their face, their posture,
161
00:08:45,362 --> 00:08:48,780
their breathing, and what they say.
162
00:08:48,780 --> 00:08:51,150
When I was working with my client, Rachel,
163
00:08:51,150 --> 00:08:53,021
I noticed her body language
164
00:08:53,021 --> 00:08:58,021
and provided her with greater
insight into what was said,
165
00:08:58,770 --> 00:09:01,110
thought and meant.
166
00:09:01,110 --> 00:09:03,480
She was responsible for
the merger integration
167
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:08,480
of two different sized companies
in the finance industry.
168
00:09:08,490 --> 00:09:12,186
The acquiring company
was four times larger
169
00:09:12,186 --> 00:09:14,520
than the other company.
170
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,980
After three months of working together,
171
00:09:16,980 --> 00:09:20,010
we met up on the 32nd floor
172
00:09:20,010 --> 00:09:22,920
of the commercial business
district head office
173
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,560
building she was in.
174
00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:28,140
As the meeting started, I asked
175
00:09:28,140 --> 00:09:30,870
what would make this a
great meeting for you.
176
00:09:30,870 --> 00:09:34,260
Rachel launched into a familiar
pattern about the struggle
177
00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:37,230
around the merger integration,
how no one understood
178
00:09:37,230 --> 00:09:38,749
how difficult it was
179
00:09:38,749 --> 00:09:42,330
and whether she cared about the outcome.
180
00:09:42,330 --> 00:09:46,140
Rachel had created a
story that it's unfair
181
00:09:46,140 --> 00:09:49,740
for the person from the acquired company
182
00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:54,540
to lead the integration into
the acquiring organization.
183
00:09:54,540 --> 00:09:58,650
She felt that the acquiring
organization should do it.
184
00:09:58,650 --> 00:10:01,110
The dialogue continued for 10 minutes.
185
00:10:01,110 --> 00:10:06,110
Yet at the seven minute
mark, Rachel paused,
186
00:10:06,390 --> 00:10:11,250
took a deep breath, her spine
and shoulders changed position
187
00:10:11,250 --> 00:10:16,250
and then she continued speaking
until she was exhausted
188
00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:18,600
by her own story.
189
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,810
I noticed the disconnect
between what she was saying
190
00:10:21,810 --> 00:10:24,780
and her body at the seven minute mark.
191
00:10:24,780 --> 00:10:25,890
I made a mental note
192
00:10:25,890 --> 00:10:28,327
to reflect this back to Rachel.
193
00:10:28,327 --> 00:10:32,550
"When you took a breath,
what happened?" I asked.
194
00:10:32,550 --> 00:10:33,930
Rachel said...
195
00:10:33,930 --> 00:10:35,943
- Took a breath. When?
196
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,967
- Here I could have replied
instantly saying something like
197
00:10:39,967 --> 00:10:42,750
"At the seven minute
mark when you said..."
198
00:10:42,750 --> 00:10:45,720
Instead I paused
199
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,270
and took a deep breath myself
200
00:10:48,270 --> 00:10:51,180
as I silently mirrored her body language.
201
00:10:51,180 --> 00:10:53,070
In response, Rachel said...
202
00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:55,890
- I was frustrated with being frustrated.
203
00:10:55,890 --> 00:10:58,860
I paused and realized that
I'm draining myself of energy
204
00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:01,110
by rehashing this issue.
205
00:11:01,110 --> 00:11:05,400
It's time, I can stay
frustrated or change,
206
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,380
although that's not what I said.
207
00:11:07,380 --> 00:11:10,143
I had to verbalize every remaining excuse.
208
00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:12,603
I want to move forward.
209
00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:15,810
- Ultimately, when you
notice the disconnection
210
00:11:15,810 --> 00:11:16,980
between their words
211
00:11:16,980 --> 00:11:20,550
and their body language,
it's not about you.
212
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:24,060
It's about helping the speaker understand
213
00:11:24,060 --> 00:11:26,550
what has altered in their thinking.
214
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:31,455
Be present to notice the
disconnect between what they say
215
00:11:31,455 --> 00:11:33,963
and how it shows up in their bodies.
216
00:11:35,422 --> 00:11:37,230
(droplets plinking)
217
00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:41,767
If you want to hear more or
read more about the book,
218
00:11:41,767 --> 00:11:45,780
"How to Listen," and
it's now won four awards
219
00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:50,460
across the globe and over
a hundred wonderful reviews
220
00:11:50,460 --> 00:11:52,920
on Amazon and Goodreads.
221
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,120
Thank you to everybody who's
222
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,690
provided their reviews about the book.
223
00:11:57,690 --> 00:12:02,010
If you go to
oscartrimboli.com/how to listen,
224
00:12:02,010 --> 00:12:04,020
no matter which country
in the world you're in,
225
00:12:04,020 --> 00:12:07,524
we'll provide the coordinates
for how you can get
226
00:12:07,524 --> 00:12:09,500
your hands on a copy of the book
227
00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:14,463
or you can listen via your
favorite audiobook platform.
228
00:12:15,630 --> 00:12:20,630
If you'd like to hear the
full episode of Susan and I,
229
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,640
visit oscartrimboli.com/podcast/066.
230
00:12:27,390 --> 00:12:31,050
That's episode 66 with Susan and I,
231
00:12:31,050 --> 00:12:34,380
and you can listen to the
complete episode there.
232
00:12:34,380 --> 00:12:36,570
The point Susan's made is reinforced
233
00:12:36,570 --> 00:12:40,177
by Robin Drake from episode 77,
234
00:12:40,177 --> 00:12:42,240
"The Secrets of Listening Like a Spy"
235
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,997
and Episode 85 with Michael Grinder,
236
00:12:45,997 --> 00:12:50,997
"Hidden Secrets Of How To
Listen For The Nonverbals."
237
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,020
Both explain the concept
of baselining body language
238
00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:56,820
and nonverbals, and the importance
239
00:12:56,820 --> 00:12:59,613
of noticing variation or congruence.
240
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,960
I thought I would share
Robin's point first
241
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,663
and then Michael will
follow up immediately after.
242
00:13:07,932 --> 00:13:10,932
(droplets plinking)
243
00:13:15,090 --> 00:13:18,060
- I used to be a nonverbal expert.
244
00:13:18,060 --> 00:13:20,880
I only looked at nonverbals
when interacting from the tip
245
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,200
of the toes to the top of the head.
246
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:27,200
But over the years my
focus became on interacting
247
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,630
with human beings in the
general and to make alignments
248
00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:33,990
of relationships, I can't
be watching your entire body
249
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:36,060
and also listening to your words
250
00:13:36,060 --> 00:13:37,800
'cause the words to me are
much more important than
251
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,060
everything your body is saying.
252
00:13:39,060 --> 00:13:42,060
I now focus mostly
completely really on the face
253
00:13:42,060 --> 00:13:44,027
and anything that comes
in within proximity of it
254
00:13:44,027 --> 00:13:46,230
if you have hand movements
up there or something.
255
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:48,450
And breathing will
definitely be part of that.
256
00:13:48,450 --> 00:13:51,930
I won't notice breathing
unless it is outside
257
00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:53,730
of a basic norm is a good way to put it.
258
00:13:53,730 --> 00:13:56,970
Same thing with eye blink
rates, flutters, lip movements.
259
00:13:56,970 --> 00:13:58,230
When you first meet someone,
260
00:13:58,230 --> 00:14:01,320
your body naturally establishes
a nonverbal baseline for
261
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,450
that individual and then during the course
262
00:14:03,450 --> 00:14:07,170
of the conversation, you're
gonna start identifying things
263
00:14:07,170 --> 00:14:09,300
that are now becoming
incongruent with what's normal
264
00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:11,613
for them during that
baseline establishment.
265
00:14:12,777 --> 00:14:15,600
(droplets plinking)
266
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,183
- The baseline of what
do most people look like,
267
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,560
what most people sound
like, how they move,
268
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,570
and literally how they breathe.
269
00:14:24,570 --> 00:14:27,990
And once you have that as a baseline,
270
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:32,990
I would strongly suggest that
anytime there is a change
271
00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:35,700
in terms of speed
272
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:38,850
or volume increase in the voice,
273
00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:41,160
the person is marking off
274
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,350
that whatever they're
saying is they would really
275
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:45,048
like you to hear that.
276
00:14:45,048 --> 00:14:48,540
(serene music)
277
00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:53,540
Whatever they say that's a
constant, face, voice, body,
278
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:56,700
that's really the baseline.
279
00:14:56,700 --> 00:15:00,060
It's the background, it's the noise.
280
00:15:00,060 --> 00:15:03,510
If you wanna know the
foreground, they'll mark it off.
281
00:15:03,510 --> 00:15:08,010
In most of the Western world,
when you increase your volume
282
00:15:08,010 --> 00:15:11,733
and your voice, you're
trying to become emphatic.
283
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:15,810
If you decrease your
volume and your voice,
284
00:15:15,810 --> 00:15:17,370
you're marking off.
285
00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:20,910
But I wanna suggest it's a
deeper level of the human being.
286
00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:25,910
A drop of volume and speed
oftentimes is more vulnerability.
287
00:15:26,209 --> 00:15:29,340
(droplets plinking)
288
00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:32,220
- When you can listen to the
nonverbal signals effectively
289
00:15:32,220 --> 00:15:35,310
without draining or
drawing your attention away
290
00:15:35,310 --> 00:15:36,750
from what they're saying,
291
00:15:36,750 --> 00:15:40,770
you'll create a much bigger
impact for them and for you.
292
00:15:40,770 --> 00:15:42,420
Earlier on, we mentioned we're going
293
00:15:42,420 --> 00:15:46,200
to take a little detour
into the world of tennis.
294
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,700
It's extremely related
to nonverbal signals.
295
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:55,260
In 1988, Andre Agassi, only 18 years old,
296
00:15:55,260 --> 00:15:59,640
was facing Boris Becker,
who was 21 at the time,
297
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:00,960
and it was a semifinal
298
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,750
of the Indian Wells Tennis Tournament.
299
00:16:03,750 --> 00:16:07,050
Despite a hard fought three set match,
300
00:16:07,050 --> 00:16:10,833
Agassi was defeated 7-5 in the final set.
301
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:13,530
For those who followed
tennis, they'll tell you
302
00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:17,100
that was a really
difficult and close match.
303
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:21,567
The pair met each other again in 1989,
304
00:16:21,567 --> 00:16:25,380
and both times Becker again was successful
305
00:16:25,380 --> 00:16:26,733
in defeating Agassi.
306
00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:30,900
Yet in 1990 something changed,
307
00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:34,320
and for the next eight
consecutive matches,
308
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,550
Agassi beat Becker every single time.
309
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:43,470
Just like business, there
are many variables in tennis,
310
00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:47,310
yet I think you'll enjoy
Andre Agassi's explanation
311
00:16:47,310 --> 00:16:50,820
of why he thinks he defeated Becker
312
00:16:50,820 --> 00:16:54,181
over this five-year run.
313
00:16:54,181 --> 00:16:56,610
(droplets plinking)
314
00:16:56,610 --> 00:16:59,610
- Tennis is about problem solving
315
00:16:59,610 --> 00:17:03,780
and you can't problem solve
unless you have the ability
316
00:17:03,780 --> 00:17:06,333
or the empathy to perceive
all that's around you.
317
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:10,140
The more you understand
what the problem is
318
00:17:10,140 --> 00:17:12,240
through other people's
lens, the more you can solve
319
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,880
for people in life and in visions.
320
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,610
Boris Becker beat me the
first three times we played
321
00:17:17,610 --> 00:17:19,650
'cause his serve was something the game
322
00:17:19,650 --> 00:17:21,540
had never seen before.
323
00:17:21,540 --> 00:17:23,160
I watched tape after tape of him
324
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,160
and stood across the net from
him three different times,
325
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,140
and I started to realize he had this weird
326
00:17:28,140 --> 00:17:29,640
tick with his tongue.
327
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:30,473
I'm not kidding.
328
00:17:30,473 --> 00:17:32,280
He would go into his rocking motion,
329
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,230
his same routine,
330
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:35,970
and just as he was about to toss the ball,
331
00:17:35,970 --> 00:17:37,440
he would stick his tongue out
332
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,500
and it would either be right
in the middle of his lip
333
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:42,990
or it would be to the
left corner of his lip.
334
00:17:42,990 --> 00:17:44,910
If he's serving in the deuce court,
335
00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:47,040
and he put his tongue in
the middle of his lip,
336
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,583
he was either serving up
the middle or to the body,
337
00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:54,810
but if he put it to the side,
he was gonna serve out wide.
338
00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:56,940
The hardest part wasn't returning a serve.
339
00:17:56,940 --> 00:18:00,270
The hardest part was not letting
him know that I knew this.
340
00:18:00,270 --> 00:18:03,960
I had to resist the temptation
of reading his serve
341
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,640
for the majority of the match
342
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,950
and choose the moments
when I was gonna use
343
00:18:07,950 --> 00:18:12,120
that information on a given
point to execute the shot
344
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:14,790
that would allow me to
break the match open.
345
00:18:14,790 --> 00:18:16,500
That was a difficulty with worse.
346
00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:18,600
I didn't have a problem
breaking the serve.
347
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,150
I had a problem hiding the fact
348
00:18:21,150 --> 00:18:22,890
that I could break his serve at will
349
00:18:22,890 --> 00:18:24,210
'cause I just didn't want him
350
00:18:24,210 --> 00:18:26,070
to keep that tongue in his mouth.
351
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:27,810
I wanted it to keep coming out.
352
00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:30,807
I told Boris about this
after he was retired
353
00:18:30,807 --> 00:18:35,340
'cause I just showed really
good judgment from my own self
354
00:18:35,340 --> 00:18:37,710
preservation and didn't
share this with him before.
355
00:18:37,710 --> 00:18:39,450
We went out in Oktoberfest in Germany
356
00:18:39,450 --> 00:18:41,640
and had a pint of beer
together and I couldn't help
357
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,020
but say, you know, you used
358
00:18:43,020 --> 00:18:44,820
to do this and give when you served.
359
00:18:44,820 --> 00:18:47,190
He about fell off the chair
360
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:51,060
and he says, I used to
go home all the time
361
00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:53,430
and just tell my wife,
362
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:55,803
it's like he reads my mind.
363
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,650
And he said to me,
364
00:18:58,650 --> 00:19:01,733
little did I know you were
just reading my tongue.
365
00:19:01,733 --> 00:19:04,170
(droplets plinking)
366
00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:07,680
- Whether you're a
tennis enthusiast or not,
367
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,320
I think the lesson is simple.
368
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,530
Everybody is sending out
nonverbal signals when they're
369
00:19:13,530 --> 00:19:17,640
performing their work, when
they're in dialogue with you,
370
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,410
and everybody who's watching can see
371
00:19:22,410 --> 00:19:24,063
these nonverbal signals.
372
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:29,960
Yet it takes a very attuned, deep listener
373
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,623
to decipher these signals
to improve performance.
374
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,400
I think every other tennis professional
375
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,963
who played Becker would've
seen his tongue move,
376
00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:47,910
yet it was only Agassi, who
was able to decipher that
377
00:19:47,910 --> 00:19:51,303
and use that in a way that
was effective for him.
378
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:57,150
If you'd like to learn more
about these skills at level two,
379
00:19:57,150 --> 00:19:58,710
not how to improve your tennis,
380
00:19:58,710 --> 00:20:01,020
but how to improve your listening,
381
00:20:01,020 --> 00:20:03,570
we've got a dedicated
course where you can come
382
00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:07,260
and practice your listening
and speaking with others.
383
00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:12,260
If you visit
oscartrimboli.com/fundamentals,
384
00:20:12,510 --> 00:20:14,370
you can register for the course.
385
00:20:14,370 --> 00:20:16,710
I'd love to listen to you.
386
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:19,290
Email podcast@oscartrimboli.com
387
00:20:19,290 --> 00:20:22,170
with the subject line, body language
388
00:20:22,170 --> 00:20:25,230
and in the body of your email
389
00:20:25,230 --> 00:20:28,500
what will you do different
as a result of listening
390
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:29,850
to this episode?
391
00:20:29,850 --> 00:20:33,750
Often I get emails from people
with just the subject line
392
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:36,270
and I immediately reply to them, well,
393
00:20:36,270 --> 00:20:37,740
what will you do differently?
394
00:20:37,740 --> 00:20:41,250
Because they've left a blank
in the body of the email.
395
00:20:41,250 --> 00:20:43,650
So that's podcast@oscartrimboli.com
396
00:20:43,650 --> 00:20:46,260
with the subject line body language.
397
00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:48,570
What will you do different as a result
398
00:20:48,570 --> 00:20:49,920
of listening to this episode?
399
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,660
Or more importantly,
400
00:20:51,660 --> 00:20:54,620
what should I have
added into this episode?
401
00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:55,890
Or what would you have liked me
402
00:20:55,890 --> 00:20:58,110
to have covered in this episode,
403
00:20:58,110 --> 00:21:00,360
so that you could become more effective
404
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,160
in the second dimension at level two
405
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,583
listening to their content what you see.
406
00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:12,120
I'm Oscar Trimboli
407
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:14,580
and along with the Deep
Listening Ambassador community,
408
00:21:14,580 --> 00:21:18,030
we're on a quest to create
100 million deep listeners
409
00:21:18,030 --> 00:21:20,370
in the workplace, and you have given us
410
00:21:20,370 --> 00:21:21,810
the greatest gift of all.
411
00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:24,903
You've listened to us.
Thanks for listening.
412
00:21:26,591 --> 00:21:29,758
(serene violin music)
413
00:21:37,617 --> 00:21:41,200
(violin music intensifies)
