WEBVTT
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welcome back Josh.
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Thanks, Jesse.
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it's a wonderful night here, Wednesday night.
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balmy, incredibly warm,
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So hot.
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I guess it's July now, actually.
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Yeah, it is July
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so I think I talked about this in the previous episode, I recently took a break, a s- small break from work'cause I had second child.
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Yep
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and it's reminded me in so many ways of why everybody should go and take breaks from work.
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so yeah, we did talk about this on the last episode, and I mentioned about, like, burnout.
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But you said it didn't have anything to do with burnout, so please, elaborate a
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Okay.
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more
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I should clarify.
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Yeah,
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I think that there's a lot of people who take breaks from work and it helps deal with their burnout.
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Mm-hmm.
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and I don't wanna discount that.
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Yeah,
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I don't think it's why I take breaks, though, from work.
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Yeah
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because I do think that the burnout that I feel is usually from things that are actually work-related, and taking breaks can't actually solve those problems,
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Yeah
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It's like you get into a fight with your friend,
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Yeah,
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And the way that you resolve that friendship is not by saying,"I'm not gonna see you for a month." You know?
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It's, it's by actually, like, let's resolve our differences, right?
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I feel like burnout is sort of the process of resolving your differences with work, and I don't think that can happen with breaks for me.
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But for other people, sure, right?
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Yeah,
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I don't know what works for you.
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I'm not every person.
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with Josh.
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Yeah.
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I'd watch that podcast.
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Oh, well, well, hey.
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This is our spinoff podcast, Containerized Therapy.
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Containerized therapy.
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so,
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what?
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That'd be so good.
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I think one of the things that a lot of people do is that, especially when they start a work at a company, is they're talking about how they wanna show their value, right?
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They wanna show, you know, they wanna understand all the systems, and then they wanna start helping out, and they wanna be, like, a big part of the team.
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And that's great, you know.
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If you wanna go and contribute to companies that you join, that's probably the best thing you can do.
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Yeah,
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But you also gotta take a break, and the reason that you gotta take a break is not necessarily for you.
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It's for the company, right?
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I don't wanna be a shill for companies right now, but the fact is, if you're building yourself up to be, like, a one-man machine, right?
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yeah.
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When you take a break, if everything falls apart, then that's a terrible addition to the team, right?
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you're losing me here.
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okay.
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You're pitching this as a,"This is for the company.
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This isn't for me." This It just sounds like you're trying to sell me on, why you need unlimited vacation time.
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what,
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No, no.
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what,
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I think,
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let's get to the point here.
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I think you should take a break from work, right?
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At regular intervals to make sure that, say, the stuff that's in your head is actually also in the documentation.
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It's in the automation, right?
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Yeah
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A lot of times people-- Like, the systems break, but because they're at work, they fix all the problems, right?
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Yeah.
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Whereas when you go and take a break,
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Yeah
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you sometimes have to realize, like,"Oh, wait a second, if I'm not there, nobody's checking this thing,"
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Yeah
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right?
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"We need a solution to deal with that.
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Nobody understands how this thing works.
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Mm-hmm.
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need to maybe make sure that that knowledge is socialized," right?
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Okay.
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I think it's really important because a lot of people say, like,"If I go off of work right now, then, you know, the company's gonna fall apart." Well, then you need to go take a break from work, and the company should fall apart, and then you can figure out where the gaps are.
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Yeah
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I think it's really important for people to take breaks because it exposes the gaps in, you know, the company versus the individual.
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Yeah.
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a lot of people take breaks because they are tired of work, right?
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but I tend to think of work as being kind of like a side activity that you should always be...
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there are some people that think about, like,"Oh, I'm gonna do this thing when I retire,"
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Yeah.
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right?
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And work isn't causing them stress, but they're not doing anything that they would wanna do when they retire.
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Yeah.
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They're like,"I'm gonna go to this country one day
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Yeah.
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once I retire,"
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Yeah
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whether or not you even make it to that age, right?
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And by doing these things regularly, if you can, right, by taking breaks, not to get away from the company, but to do other things,
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Yeah.
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a lot of people, I think, feel better about their work.
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Because it's not like their work is getting in the way of their retirement.
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Their work is just this thing that's going on the side as they're living their best life.
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Yeah.
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I also think going on breaks helps innovation cycles,
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Mm-hmm
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it's kind of like when you get stuck on something, either coding or troubleshooting, and you just have to, get up and walk away for a second'cause you're just, like, too close to the problem.
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You can't...
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You're like, y- and you...
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Some- most, at least for me, sometimes I'll actually solve the problem when I'm not even trying to solve the problem.
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Right.
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exactly.
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you're sitting there thinking about your dinner and then you're like,"Wait a second,
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yeah.
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maybe that thing-"
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into the mashed potatoes, it's kind of like when the logs went into the Kafka topic, and it poisoned the Kafka topic so that every other...
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Just like the mashed potatoes.
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No.
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Yeah, I sometimes think that's how my life is, but no, no, no.
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on a side note, but like taking breaks, you know?
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And like obviously this is gonna be the crazy person in me, but like I sometimes like to take breaks from work, but like go to like conferences
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Mm-hmm
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go to, you know, get-togethers, like DevOps meetups, or...
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like, yeah, some people would argue,"Well, yeah, that's just work outside of work." But like, I don't know, like if you're the type of person that likes to like chat with people and see what they're doing and understand what they're doing, it gives you new ideas, gives you new innovations, it gives you maybe ways to get around ruts that you might be in at work, that you might be falling into, you know?
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Well, that's a point that I think I'd kind of forgotten about, but you bring it up and it totally clicks, which is that when you're doing work day in and day out, you kinda get into a rhythm,
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Yeah
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And so you might say,"Okay, every morning I'm gonna go up and I'm gonna work on this thing.
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I'm gonna make it better, and I have this, like, plan, this, like, five-year vision for this product, and I, I just...
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I need to work on the next step and the next step."
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Yeah
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You go away for two weeks, you go away for a month, and you come back and you think,"Wait a second, is this even the right product?"
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Yeah.
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When you've taken a break from your day in, day out schedule, you might realize,"Wait a second, these tiny things that I'm doing
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Yeah
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the things I should be doing."
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Doesn't matter.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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and sometimes it's, it's big things like that.
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It's,"Oh, I was working on this, you know, product and it really should be product B, and I need to go and convince upper management that product A is not what we should be working on." But sometimes it's smaller things, right?
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You get into, like, you know, the, the xkcd comic about the space bar heating.
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Like, some people have these, like, terrible workflows, but it's just what they've used
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Yeah.
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I was using the Amazon Q plugin for, VS Code for my AI stuff, and Amazon's like, Switch to the Kuro ID." And I was like,"Man, I don't have time for that.
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I need to work on my, you know, projects."
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Yeah
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Well, when I take a break from work and then I come back and I'm not immediately given stuff in the, the first, like, two or three days, I actually have time to go and evaluate if that IDE is a good thing, and then lo and behold, it's way better than the thing I was using before, right?
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Yeah
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sometimes, those breaks allow us to kind of reset in a good way.
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Yeah
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Whether or not it's the product or the tools, the way you're doing work, sometimes a break is just enough to, like, get you out of your groove,
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Yeah.
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right?
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Make you realize that, ah, the couch that I had made a giant impression in maybe is not as good as that chair over there, and I need to go switch to that chair, right?
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Yeah.
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that's for sure.
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Have you had a break recently?
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Well, it's interesting.
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Like I am very fortunate to work at a company that is fully remote,
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Mm-hmm.
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And the-- sees a lot of benefit in sending their people to like conferences and stuff like that.
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Yep
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So I've had the, ability to head to conferences, and it's paid for by the company.
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Cheers.
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I view that as a break.
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it was an AI conference.
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We were working, we were getting ideas.
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The whole point of it was to go to, to get ideas for our product.
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But it was really nice.
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We went with our team, we got to meet up.
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I got to meet in person, my fully remote team, you know, we got to get together.
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We got to go out for beers afterwards.
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I mean, yeah, of course it is working, but it's like, you know, it feels like a vacation.
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and you know, on top of that, I do take time off, you know.
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having a two-year-old, there are, you know, there are a lot of, you...
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I just recently watched The Incredibles.
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Have you seen that movie at all?
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Not recently.
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I've seen The Incredibles 2, and I've seen I think both of them multiple times, but
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So there's a quote in Incredibles 1, and it's like towards the beginning of the epis- or movie, and, Mr.
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Incredible and Elastigirl, who are married at this time, are fighting with each other.
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And she's like,"You didn't show up to Jack's graduation." He's like, he's like,"Graduation?
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He's going from third grade to fourth grade.
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Why do we celebrate everything?" And he like freaks out, right?
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Like, like,"Everything's a graduation." it's, it's not a graduation, but and like, but it's, it's funny, like they...
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you, there are like a lot of like, you know, my kid's in daycare, but they do a lot of like things it seems ridiculous, but it's, it's nice, you know?
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It's nice.
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You know, she obviously appreciates it, whether she will remember it or not in the future, and it's nice to get
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You remember it, right?
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I feel like when I was in my 20s, I definitely was like thinking about work all the time.
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It was just all-consuming.
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It was everything I did.
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And at some point I broke, ha- had burnt out, you know.
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And now I see the pos- you know, the positives in taking breaks, just like you said.
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And I use them to reinvigorate myself.
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But it's funny because then I feel bad that I didn't work, so then I'll work at like 8:00
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No.
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when the kid goes to bed and
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No.
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So, That's the key.
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I think when you take a break, you can't feel like you have to, like, make it up, right?
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yeah
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one of the things that I've...
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Like, a key insight that I've had in the past, like, maybe five, 10 years for playing video games, but it, it's true for work as well, which is that if I don't work, I'm gonna get...
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I'm still gonna get better at that skill as long as I'm going to work daily, right?
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Or every other day, right?
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Yeah
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I've played, like, really hard video games, right?
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And I'll go and fight, like, a boss, and I'll get killed in, like, one hit, and I'll be like,"This is impossible.
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Yeah.
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is impossible."
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Yeah
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what I do is I stop playing, and then I come back the next day, and I get a little bit further,
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Yeah
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and then I stop playing, and I come back the next day, and I get a little bit further.
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And eventually I will beat it, but not necessarily on one sitting, right?
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Yeah
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I feel like my body, my mind needs time to process things.
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And you might say that's just true for playing video games.
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No, I think it's true for work, right?
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Sometimes you start work and you have to learn a new concept, right?
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Like, I was doing stuff with web transport the other day,
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Mm-hmm.
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and I'm like,"Okay, I don't understand, like, these pieces of web transport,"
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Yeah
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It's not like I understand WebSockets, web transport, whatever.
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It's kind of this, you know, UDP, HTTP/3 stuff.
00:13:11.274 --> 00:13:13.524
Like, I'm like, I don't really totally understand it
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way to show off for, to our audience members.
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I don't understand it.
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That's the point.
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complicated thing that I know.
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the point is I didn't...
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It's not like I, like, crammed it.
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It's not like I tried to, like, get it all in one day.
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I'm like,"Let's just taste it and then take a break and come back," right?
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And eventually I realized, like,"Yeah, I'm gonna learn this thing.
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I just need more time with it.
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I'm gonna need to see it every day, but just a little bit," you know?
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and I think the key is actually taking that break.
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It's not trying to get it all in in one session, so
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Yeah.
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No, and like, and that I, again, it's like the hard part is like feeling guilty about it.
00:13:55.822 --> 00:14:09.072
But, you know, especially if you're doing it because you're in a rut like,'cause there obviously there's gonna be situations and people that abuse that, and they're just like,"Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And that's like the c- devil's advocate argument I have for you, right?
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When it comes to vacations, right?
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Tech, the tech world has invented the unlimited vacation,
00:14:21.307 --> 00:14:22.517
Invented, yeah.
00:14:23.371 --> 00:14:35.912
I think that tech jobs are, right, air quotes,"unlimited vacation," which is that you can take a vacation as long as, you know, it's not at a really busy time,
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Yeah.
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We're not counting the days.
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You can take as many days as you want,
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Yeah,
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but within reason,
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Yeah.
00:14:43.606 --> 00:14:43.897
right?
00:14:44.273 --> 00:14:46.462
Up to the discretion of your manager.
00:14:48.534 --> 00:14:49.745
These are all legitimate things.
00:14:49.934 --> 00:14:50.325
Yeah.
00:14:50.485 --> 00:14:52.605
think like,"Oh, wait, I can take a break anytime?
00:14:52.605 --> 00:14:53.056
That's great."
00:14:53.495 --> 00:14:56.245
I take off every, Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
00:14:56.677 --> 00:15:02.457
I know tons of people who, when they have unlimited vacation, they just don't take vacation.
00:15:02.937 --> 00:15:03.187
Yeah,
00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:11.789
The reason that a lot of companies use unlimited vacation is because they don't want people to really take the full, like, 20 days of vacation
00:15:12.230 --> 00:15:18.210
well, not only that, but like they don't have to pay you out for your balance because there is no balance.
00:15:18.538 --> 00:15:18.837
Right
00:15:18.980 --> 00:15:21.720
there's a lot of benefit from the company perspective,
00:15:21.868 --> 00:15:22.148
Right.
00:15:22.467 --> 00:15:25.057
Unless you're a power user of vacation,
00:15:25.168 --> 00:15:25.947
Oh, okay.
00:15:26.398 --> 00:15:30.988
I think every year, right, I try to take vacations regularly, right?
00:15:31.097 --> 00:15:32.378
And I think the key is,
00:15:33.011 --> 00:15:40.231
We are very fortunate, to have ability to work from home, right?
00:15:40.504 --> 00:15:40.514
Mm-hmm.
00:15:40.991 --> 00:15:45.331
Like, think about all the jobs that you can't do that, like construction worker,
00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:46.190
Right
00:15:46.241 --> 00:15:47.442
teachers.
00:15:47.951 --> 00:15:48.392
Yeah
00:15:48.491 --> 00:15:53.991
there, there's all these different jobs where there, you physically can't do it.
00:15:53.991 --> 00:15:58.371
And so you can very easily look at ours and look at how spoiled we are,
00:15:58.735 --> 00:15:58.745
A
00:15:58.761 --> 00:15:59.192
right?
00:15:59.326 --> 00:16:00.076
hundred percent
00:16:00.481 --> 00:16:00.912
Right?
00:16:01.121 --> 00:16:14.922
But, there's also another devil's advocate on the other side of that is, we can work at any time, which means, if a company wants to, they can abuse that power, and you will work at any time.
00:16:15.528 --> 00:16:15.548
No
00:16:15.601 --> 00:16:17.601
I've worked at jobs that are like that too,
00:16:17.884 --> 00:16:18.224
Yeah.
00:16:18.274 --> 00:16:19.974
you're waking up at midnight,
00:16:20.192 --> 00:16:20.351
to,
00:16:20.413 --> 00:16:20.724
AM.
00:16:20.812 --> 00:16:21.772
to wake up, yeah.
00:16:21.894 --> 00:16:22.134
Yeah
00:16:22.172 --> 00:16:23.481
on call, right?
00:16:23.481 --> 00:16:27.812
And you get an alert at, 1:00 AM, then 2:00 AM, then 3:00 AM.
00:16:27.822 --> 00:16:31.052
You have to wake up every single time that alert goes off and solve that problem,
00:16:31.221 --> 00:16:37.052
Yeah, te- teachers complaining about like grading homework at like 6:00 PM while they're watching, you know, eating din-
00:16:37.073 --> 00:16:37.543
yeah.
00:16:37.591 --> 00:16:39.631
Like, don't get me wrong, that's a real thing.
00:16:40.042 --> 00:16:44.011
But being, on all the time, right?
00:16:44.042 --> 00:16:52.211
Being like, basically imagine at any moment as a teacher that suddenly there's like a group of kids in front of you and you have to solve this problem.
00:16:52.631 --> 00:16:54.272
You have to teach them something,
00:16:54.888 --> 00:16:55.187
Yeah.
00:16:55.371 --> 00:16:55.981
suddenly.
00:16:56.881 --> 00:17:05.182
to that point, right, and this is why I don't feel guilty, is like I will take time durky- during working hours
00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:05.828
Mm-hmm.
00:17:06.241 --> 00:17:17.392
If no one needs me, I, and like my kid, you know, is having some sort of next graduation or a singing, competition or whatever, like I'll go, right?
00:17:17.866 --> 00:17:18.126
Yep
00:17:18.471 --> 00:17:23.612
there isn't any expectation from my job that I need to like make up those hours, because again, we have unlimited.
00:17:23.951 --> 00:17:33.541
But like I, I actually enjoy what I do, so when I do have free time, I do sometimes hop on work.
00:17:33.561 --> 00:17:34.892
I'll do it for an hour or two.
00:17:35.102 --> 00:17:37.442
But I like that flexibility, right?
00:17:37.521 --> 00:17:54.882
Because I think some of my best innovations or problem solvings happen between the hours of like 9:00 and 10:00, when like the kid's in bed, my wife's just like watching TV, doesn't really need me around, and like I'm free to do whatever I want.
00:17:54.882 --> 00:18:00.511
And it's like, you know, there was this one hard issue I just really wanna solve, and I think I figured out how to do it.
00:18:00.862 --> 00:18:04.801
I'll open my laptop for like an hour, and no one's on, so no one pings me, right?
00:18:04.892 --> 00:18:08.721
And it's just like straight work, and it's just productive work.
00:18:08.862 --> 00:18:08.882
Mm-hmm.
00:18:08.917 --> 00:18:10.018
lo- I love that,
00:18:10.188 --> 00:18:10.528
Yeah
00:18:10.613 --> 00:18:20.563
I love that f- ability to, that we have, which is we can work at any time, and as long as we get our work done, it doesn't matter when we get it done,
00:18:21.259 --> 00:18:21.630
Yeah
00:18:21.762 --> 00:18:23.512
doesn't have to be 9:00 to 5:00
00:18:24.026 --> 00:18:34.115
the audience for this talk, I think the biggest thing is, like, there are some people who work too much, and I want to encourage them to take more breaks, right?
00:18:34.125 --> 00:18:34.335
sure.
00:18:34.805 --> 00:18:35.424
I know there are
00:18:35.454 --> 00:18:37.565
the job that fits how you work.
00:18:38.015 --> 00:18:40.065
If you're a nine-to-five, do nine-to-five.
00:18:40.434 --> 00:18:45.144
if you're a scattered brain, find a job that lets you do scatter-brain work, right?
00:18:47.214 --> 00:18:48.394
and hopefully they hire you.
00:18:49.545 --> 00:18:50.555
don't just find it.
00:18:51.444 --> 00:18:51.734
Yeah.
00:18:51.785 --> 00:18:53.855
get the skills that are required for that job.
00:18:54.105 --> 00:18:54.454
Yeah.
00:18:54.825 --> 00:18:58.224
All right, well, we're, and 22 minutes in, Josh, so let's wrap this up.
00:18:58.541 --> 00:18:59.362
Let's wrap this up.
00:18:59.484 --> 00:19:00.724
fi- any final thoughts?
00:19:01.761 --> 00:19:03.922
I would say take breaks.
00:19:03.942 --> 00:19:04.821
It's good for you.
00:19:04.832 --> 00:19:05.922
It's good for the company.
00:19:06.771 --> 00:19:11.031
and don't even worry if it's in your first year, if it's in your first month, right?
00:19:11.392 --> 00:19:17.622
Sometimes you just need to take a break so your, you can compress and the company can figure it out as well.
00:19:17.692 --> 00:19:18.011
Yeah.
00:19:18.395 --> 00:19:19.296
that's my advice to you
00:19:19.682 --> 00:19:20.592
I love that, Sano.
00:19:20.942 --> 00:19:23.491
And for me, yeah, work how you work.
00:19:23.821 --> 00:19:29.432
As long as you get your work done, scatterbrain it as much as you want, or nine to five it as much as you want,
00:19:30.211 --> 00:19:31.402
Whatever works best for you.
00:19:31.696 --> 00:19:31.987
Yeah?
00:19:33.586 --> 00:19:34.126
All right.
00:19:34.416 --> 00:19:35.636
Well, thank you, Josh.
00:19:36.027 --> 00:19:36.846
Thank you, audience.
00:19:37.637 --> 00:19:38.057
Thanks, Jessica.
00:19:39.627 --> 00:19:39.837
See you
00:00:12.750 --> 00:00:14.199
welcome back Josh.
00:00:14.695 --> 00:00:15.506
Thanks, Jesse.
00:00:15.576 --> 00:00:18.016
it's a wonderful night here, Wednesday night.
00:00:18.667 --> 00:00:20.917
balmy, incredibly warm,
00:00:21.618 --> 00:00:22.137
So hot.
00:00:22.207 --> 00:00:23.797
I guess it's July now, actually.
00:00:24.217 --> 00:00:24.908
Yeah, it is July
00:00:25.807 --> 00:00:34.727
so I think I talked about this in the previous episode, I recently took a break, a s- small break from work'cause I had second child.
00:00:35.140 --> 00:00:35.450
Yep
00:00:35.646 --> 00:00:42.567
and it's reminded me in so many ways of why everybody should go and take breaks from work.
00:00:42.730 --> 00:00:46.939
so yeah, we did talk about this on the last episode, and I mentioned about, like, burnout.
00:00:47.390 --> 00:00:51.710
But you said it didn't have anything to do with burnout, so please, elaborate a
00:00:51.808 --> 00:00:51.908
Okay.
00:00:52.049 --> 00:00:52.409
more
00:00:52.749 --> 00:00:53.738
I should clarify.
00:00:54.124 --> 00:00:54.323
Yeah,
00:00:54.374 --> 00:01:01.454
I think that there's a lot of people who take breaks from work and it helps deal with their burnout.
00:01:01.847 --> 00:01:02.637
Mm-hmm.
00:01:03.057 --> 00:01:04.878
and I don't wanna discount that.
00:01:05.146 --> 00:01:05.387
Yeah,
00:01:05.436 --> 00:01:08.296
I don't think it's why I take breaks, though, from work.
00:01:08.772 --> 00:01:09.082
Yeah
00:01:09.926 --> 00:01:20.626
because I do think that the burnout that I feel is usually from things that are actually work-related, and taking breaks can't actually solve those problems,
00:01:20.736 --> 00:01:21.126
Yeah
00:01:21.266 --> 00:01:23.066
It's like you get into a fight with your friend,
00:01:23.356 --> 00:01:23.596
Yeah,
00:01:23.936 --> 00:01:31.027
And the way that you resolve that friendship is not by saying,"I'm not gonna see you for a month." You know?
00:01:31.076 --> 00:01:34.177
It's, it's by actually, like, let's resolve our differences, right?
00:01:34.367 --> 00:01:42.956
I feel like burnout is sort of the process of resolving your differences with work, and I don't think that can happen with breaks for me.
00:01:43.757 --> 00:01:45.197
But for other people, sure, right?
00:01:45.822 --> 00:01:46.412
Yeah,
00:01:46.462 --> 00:01:47.641
I don't know what works for you.
00:01:48.003 --> 00:01:49.132
I'm not every person.
00:01:49.534 --> 00:01:50.153
with Josh.
00:01:50.561 --> 00:01:50.751
Yeah.
00:01:51.802 --> 00:01:53.022
I'd watch that podcast.
00:01:53.471 --> 00:01:54.391
Oh, well, well, hey.
00:01:54.501 --> 00:01:56.781
This is our spinoff podcast, Containerized Therapy.
00:01:57.290 --> 00:01:58.510
Containerized therapy.
00:01:59.078 --> 00:01:59.459
so,
00:01:59.680 --> 00:01:59.771
what?
00:02:00.070 --> 00:02:00.881
That'd be so good.
00:02:01.688 --> 00:02:11.788
I think one of the things that a lot of people do is that, especially when they start a work at a company, is they're talking about how they wanna show their value, right?
00:02:12.459 --> 00:02:19.209
They wanna show, you know, they wanna understand all the systems, and then they wanna start helping out, and they wanna be, like, a big part of the team.
00:02:19.889 --> 00:02:21.468
And that's great, you know.
00:02:21.688 --> 00:02:25.889
If you wanna go and contribute to companies that you join, that's probably the best thing you can do.
00:02:26.396 --> 00:02:26.477
Yeah,
00:02:26.526 --> 00:02:32.486
But you also gotta take a break, and the reason that you gotta take a break is not necessarily for you.
00:02:32.516 --> 00:02:34.417
It's for the company, right?
00:02:34.787 --> 00:02:42.667
I don't wanna be a shill for companies right now, but the fact is, if you're building yourself up to be, like, a one-man machine, right?
00:02:42.701 --> 00:02:42.991
yeah.
00:02:43.331 --> 00:02:49.382
When you take a break, if everything falls apart, then that's a terrible addition to the team, right?
00:02:49.650 --> 00:02:50.759
you're losing me here.
00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:51.699
okay.
00:02:51.930 --> 00:02:55.360
You're pitching this as a,"This is for the company.
00:02:55.379 --> 00:03:00.960
This isn't for me." This It just sounds like you're trying to sell me on, why you need unlimited vacation time.
00:03:01.009 --> 00:03:01.139
what,
00:03:01.551 --> 00:03:02.132
No, no.
00:03:02.180 --> 00:03:02.419
what,
00:03:02.500 --> 00:03:02.990
I think,
00:03:03.116 --> 00:03:04.377
let's get to the point here.
00:03:05.020 --> 00:03:08.800
I think you should take a break from work, right?
00:03:08.830 --> 00:03:16.879
At regular intervals to make sure that, say, the stuff that's in your head is actually also in the documentation.
00:03:17.180 --> 00:03:19.189
It's in the automation, right?
00:03:19.968 --> 00:03:20.269
Yeah
00:03:20.419 --> 00:03:26.819
A lot of times people-- Like, the systems break, but because they're at work, they fix all the problems, right?
00:03:26.902 --> 00:03:27.233
Yeah.
00:03:28.009 --> 00:03:29.800
Whereas when you go and take a break,
00:03:30.182 --> 00:03:30.483
Yeah
00:03:30.550 --> 00:03:35.750
you sometimes have to realize, like,"Oh, wait a second, if I'm not there, nobody's checking this thing,"
00:03:35.959 --> 00:03:36.318
Yeah
00:03:36.620 --> 00:03:36.900
right?
00:03:36.900 --> 00:03:38.599
"We need a solution to deal with that.
00:03:38.990 --> 00:03:41.060
Nobody understands how this thing works.
00:03:41.413 --> 00:03:41.782
Mm-hmm.
00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:45.800
need to maybe make sure that that knowledge is socialized," right?
00:03:46.430 --> 00:03:46.819
Okay.
00:03:46.870 --> 00:04:02.629
I think it's really important because a lot of people say, like,"If I go off of work right now, then, you know, the company's gonna fall apart." Well, then you need to go take a break from work, and the company should fall apart, and then you can figure out where the gaps are.
00:04:03.004 --> 00:04:03.365
Yeah
00:04:03.490 --> 00:04:12.219
I think it's really important for people to take breaks because it exposes the gaps in, you know, the company versus the individual.
00:04:12.491 --> 00:04:12.850
Yeah.
00:04:12.971 --> 00:04:17.640
a lot of people take breaks because they are tired of work, right?
00:04:18.461 --> 00:04:23.610
but I tend to think of work as being kind of like a side activity that you should always be...
00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:28.260
there are some people that think about, like,"Oh, I'm gonna do this thing when I retire,"
00:04:28.612 --> 00:04:28.882
Yeah.
00:04:29.242 --> 00:04:29.583
right?
00:04:30.463 --> 00:04:38.302
And work isn't causing them stress, but they're not doing anything that they would wanna do when they retire.
00:04:38.697 --> 00:04:38.987
Yeah.
00:04:39.463 --> 00:04:42.182
They're like,"I'm gonna go to this country one day
00:04:42.540 --> 00:04:42.930
Yeah.
00:04:43.262 --> 00:04:44.523
once I retire,"
00:04:44.870 --> 00:04:45.199
Yeah
00:04:45.583 --> 00:04:48.572
whether or not you even make it to that age, right?
00:04:49.062 --> 00:04:57.173
And by doing these things regularly, if you can, right, by taking breaks, not to get away from the company, but to do other things,
00:04:57.827 --> 00:04:57.848
Yeah.
00:04:58.213 --> 00:05:01.452
a lot of people, I think, feel better about their work.
00:05:01.463 --> 00:05:04.353
Because it's not like their work is getting in the way of their retirement.
00:05:05.072 --> 00:05:09.413
Their work is just this thing that's going on the side as they're living their best life.
00:05:09.764 --> 00:05:10.004
Yeah.
00:05:10.442 --> 00:05:16.622
I also think going on breaks helps innovation cycles,
00:05:17.223 --> 00:05:17.603
Mm-hmm
00:05:18.322 --> 00:05:26.862
it's kind of like when you get stuck on something, either coding or troubleshooting, and you just have to, get up and walk away for a second'cause you're just, like, too close to the problem.
00:05:26.872 --> 00:05:27.283
You can't...
00:05:27.312 --> 00:05:28.752
You're like, y- and you...
00:05:28.812 --> 00:05:35.033
Some- most, at least for me, sometimes I'll actually solve the problem when I'm not even trying to solve the problem.
00:05:35.281 --> 00:05:35.872
Right.
00:05:36.012 --> 00:05:36.781
exactly.
00:05:36.822 --> 00:05:40.122
you're sitting there thinking about your dinner and then you're like,"Wait a second,
00:05:40.192 --> 00:05:40.483
yeah.
00:05:40.593 --> 00:05:41.802
maybe that thing-"
00:05:41.834 --> 00:05:50.995
into the mashed potatoes, it's kind of like when the logs went into the Kafka topic, and it poisoned the Kafka topic so that every other...
00:05:53.435 --> 00:05:55.144
Just like the mashed potatoes.
00:05:55.254 --> 00:05:55.584
No.
00:05:55.975 --> 00:05:58.675
Yeah, I sometimes think that's how my life is, but no, no, no.
00:05:59.365 --> 00:06:01.964
on a side note, but like taking breaks, you know?
00:06:02.235 --> 00:06:11.904
And like obviously this is gonna be the crazy person in me, but like I sometimes like to take breaks from work, but like go to like conferences
00:06:12.250 --> 00:06:12.649
Mm-hmm
00:06:12.925 --> 00:06:18.704
go to, you know, get-togethers, like DevOps meetups, or...
00:06:19.615 --> 00:06:40.714
like, yeah, some people would argue,"Well, yeah, that's just work outside of work." But like, I don't know, like if you're the type of person that likes to like chat with people and see what they're doing and understand what they're doing, it gives you new ideas, gives you new innovations, it gives you maybe ways to get around ruts that you might be in at work, that you might be falling into, you know?
00:06:41.798 --> 00:06:54.767
Well, that's a point that I think I'd kind of forgotten about, but you bring it up and it totally clicks, which is that when you're doing work day in and day out, you kinda get into a rhythm,
00:06:55.130 --> 00:06:55.490
Yeah
00:06:55.577 --> 00:06:59.298
And so you might say,"Okay, every morning I'm gonna go up and I'm gonna work on this thing.
00:06:59.668 --> 00:07:06.567
I'm gonna make it better, and I have this, like, plan, this, like, five-year vision for this product, and I, I just...
00:07:06.778 --> 00:07:08.548
I need to work on the next step and the next step."
00:07:09.067 --> 00:07:09.367
Yeah
00:07:09.858 --> 00:07:17.677
You go away for two weeks, you go away for a month, and you come back and you think,"Wait a second, is this even the right product?"
00:07:17.834 --> 00:07:18.194
Yeah.
00:07:18.298 --> 00:07:25.187
When you've taken a break from your day in, day out schedule, you might realize,"Wait a second, these tiny things that I'm doing
00:07:25.533 --> 00:07:25.892
Yeah
00:07:26.237 --> 00:07:27.728
the things I should be doing."
00:07:27.908 --> 00:07:28.559
Doesn't matter.
00:07:28.718 --> 00:07:29.048
Yeah.
00:07:29.548 --> 00:07:29.898
Yeah.
00:07:30.548 --> 00:07:33.127
and sometimes it's, it's big things like that.
00:07:33.228 --> 00:07:47.017
It's,"Oh, I was working on this, you know, product and it really should be product B, and I need to go and convince upper management that product A is not what we should be working on." But sometimes it's smaller things, right?
00:07:47.987 --> 00:07:52.827
You get into, like, you know, the, the xkcd comic about the space bar heating.
00:07:53.247 --> 00:07:59.067
Like, some people have these, like, terrible workflows, but it's just what they've used
00:07:59.547 --> 00:07:59.867
Yeah.
00:07:59.976 --> 00:08:11.997
I was using the Amazon Q plugin for, VS Code for my AI stuff, and Amazon's like, Switch to the Kuro ID." And I was like,"Man, I don't have time for that.
00:08:12.016 --> 00:08:15.476
I need to work on my, you know, projects."
00:08:15.822 --> 00:08:16.213
Yeah
00:08:16.877 --> 00:08:32.297
Well, when I take a break from work and then I come back and I'm not immediately given stuff in the, the first, like, two or three days, I actually have time to go and evaluate if that IDE is a good thing, and then lo and behold, it's way better than the thing I was using before, right?
00:08:32.807 --> 00:08:33.277
Yeah
00:08:33.866 --> 00:08:38.346
sometimes, those breaks allow us to kind of reset in a good way.
00:08:38.673 --> 00:08:39.113
Yeah
00:08:39.437 --> 00:08:47.476
Whether or not it's the product or the tools, the way you're doing work, sometimes a break is just enough to, like, get you out of your groove,
00:08:47.697 --> 00:08:47.986
Yeah.
00:08:48.106 --> 00:08:48.366
right?
00:08:49.027 --> 00:08:57.897
Make you realize that, ah, the couch that I had made a giant impression in maybe is not as good as that chair over there, and I need to go switch to that chair, right?
00:08:57.947 --> 00:08:58.287
Yeah.
00:08:59.256 --> 00:08:59.846
that's for sure.
00:08:59.947 --> 00:09:01.736
Have you had a break recently?
00:09:02.756 --> 00:09:03.897
Well, it's interesting.
00:09:03.907 --> 00:09:10.767
Like I am very fortunate to work at a company that is fully remote,
00:09:11.264 --> 00:09:11.644
Mm-hmm.
00:09:12.527 --> 00:09:20.076
And the-- sees a lot of benefit in sending their people to like conferences and stuff like that.
00:09:20.160 --> 00:09:20.500
Yep
00:09:21.006 --> 00:09:29.307
So I've had the, ability to head to conferences, and it's paid for by the company.
00:09:29.962 --> 00:09:30.003
Cheers.
00:09:30.947 --> 00:09:32.147
I view that as a break.
00:09:33.226 --> 00:09:34.456
it was an AI conference.
00:09:34.456 --> 00:09:36.086
We were working, we were getting ideas.
00:09:36.096 --> 00:09:39.006
The whole point of it was to go to, to get ideas for our product.
00:09:39.376 --> 00:09:40.106
But it was really nice.
00:09:40.126 --> 00:09:42.356
We went with our team, we got to meet up.
00:09:42.427 --> 00:09:47.177
I got to meet in person, my fully remote team, you know, we got to get together.
00:09:47.177 --> 00:09:49.116
We got to go out for beers afterwards.
00:09:49.116 --> 00:09:53.777
I mean, yeah, of course it is working, but it's like, you know, it feels like a vacation.
00:09:54.537 --> 00:09:58.527
and you know, on top of that, I do take time off, you know.
00:09:58.706 --> 00:10:06.076
having a two-year-old, there are, you know, there are a lot of, you...
00:10:06.157 --> 00:10:07.947
I just recently watched The Incredibles.
00:10:08.006 --> 00:10:09.866
Have you seen that movie at all?
00:10:10.393 --> 00:10:11.023
Not recently.
00:10:11.033 --> 00:10:15.452
I've seen The Incredibles 2, and I've seen I think both of them multiple times, but
00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:22.870
So there's a quote in Incredibles 1, and it's like towards the beginning of the epis- or movie, and, Mr.
00:10:22.870 --> 00:10:28.061
Incredible and Elastigirl, who are married at this time, are fighting with each other.
00:10:28.380 --> 00:10:34.350
And she's like,"You didn't show up to Jack's graduation." He's like, he's like,"Graduation?
00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:36.500
He's going from third grade to fourth grade.
00:10:36.561 --> 00:10:39.951
Why do we celebrate everything?" And he like freaks out, right?
00:10:39.980 --> 00:10:48.071
Like, like,"Everything's a graduation." it's, it's not a graduation, but and like, but it's, it's funny, like they...
00:10:48.081 --> 00:10:56.130
you, there are like a lot of like, you know, my kid's in daycare, but they do a lot of like things it seems ridiculous, but it's, it's nice, you know?
00:10:56.130 --> 00:10:56.541
It's nice.
00:10:56.561 --> 00:11:02.791
You know, she obviously appreciates it, whether she will remember it or not in the future, and it's nice to get
00:11:03.171 --> 00:11:04.191
You remember it, right?
00:11:04.660 --> 00:11:10.890
I feel like when I was in my 20s, I definitely was like thinking about work all the time.
00:11:10.900 --> 00:11:12.461
It was just all-consuming.
00:11:12.791 --> 00:11:13.860
It was everything I did.
00:11:14.140 --> 00:11:18.510
And at some point I broke, ha- had burnt out, you know.
00:11:18.721 --> 00:11:24.760
And now I see the pos- you know, the positives in taking breaks, just like you said.
00:11:25.140 --> 00:11:29.900
And I use them to reinvigorate myself.
00:11:30.211 --> 00:11:35.671
But it's funny because then I feel bad that I didn't work, so then I'll work at like 8:00
00:11:36.004 --> 00:11:36.085
No.
00:11:36.130 --> 00:11:37.350
when the kid goes to bed and
00:11:37.514 --> 00:11:37.855
No.
00:11:37.894 --> 00:11:38.784
So, That's the key.
00:11:39.024 --> 00:11:44.625
I think when you take a break, you can't feel like you have to, like, make it up, right?
00:11:44.880 --> 00:11:45.201
yeah
00:11:46.034 --> 00:11:47.424
one of the things that I've...
00:11:47.485 --> 00:12:00.625
Like, a key insight that I've had in the past, like, maybe five, 10 years for playing video games, but it, it's true for work as well, which is that if I don't work, I'm gonna get...
00:12:00.745 --> 00:12:05.325
I'm still gonna get better at that skill as long as I'm going to work daily, right?
00:12:05.325 --> 00:12:06.434
Or every other day, right?
00:12:06.589 --> 00:12:06.958
Yeah
00:12:07.075 --> 00:12:10.075
I've played, like, really hard video games, right?
00:12:10.884 --> 00:12:17.534
And I'll go and fight, like, a boss, and I'll get killed in, like, one hit, and I'll be like,"This is impossible.
00:12:17.667 --> 00:12:17.976
Yeah.
00:12:18.134 --> 00:12:19.105
is impossible."
00:12:19.567 --> 00:12:19.856
Yeah
00:12:20.024 --> 00:12:25.174
what I do is I stop playing, and then I come back the next day, and I get a little bit further,
00:12:25.325 --> 00:12:25.764
Yeah
00:12:25.914 --> 00:12:29.294
and then I stop playing, and I come back the next day, and I get a little bit further.
00:12:29.524 --> 00:12:37.335
And eventually I will beat it, but not necessarily on one sitting, right?
00:12:37.581 --> 00:12:37.880
Yeah
00:12:38.174 --> 00:12:41.875
I feel like my body, my mind needs time to process things.
00:12:42.654 --> 00:12:45.914
And you might say that's just true for playing video games.
00:12:45.914 --> 00:12:47.764
No, I think it's true for work, right?
00:12:48.004 --> 00:12:53.164
Sometimes you start work and you have to learn a new concept, right?
00:12:53.715 --> 00:12:56.485
Like, I was doing stuff with web transport the other day,
00:12:56.732 --> 00:12:56.743
Mm-hmm.
00:12:57.264 --> 00:13:02.134
and I'm like,"Okay, I don't understand, like, these pieces of web transport,"
00:13:02.365 --> 00:13:02.774
Yeah
00:13:03.154 --> 00:13:07.095
It's not like I understand WebSockets, web transport, whatever.
00:13:07.095 --> 00:13:11.254
It's kind of this, you know, UDP, HTTP/3 stuff.
00:13:11.274 --> 00:13:13.524
Like, I'm like, I don't really totally understand it
00:13:13.884 --> 00:13:16.245
way to show off for, to our audience members.
00:13:16.548 --> 00:13:17.678
I don't understand it.
00:13:17.729 --> 00:13:18.369
That's the point.
00:13:18.418 --> 00:13:19.908
complicated thing that I know.
00:13:20.269 --> 00:13:21.349
the point is I didn't...
00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:23.519
It's not like I, like, crammed it.
00:13:23.538 --> 00:13:27.099
It's not like I tried to, like, get it all in one day.
00:13:27.149 --> 00:13:32.448
I'm like,"Let's just taste it and then take a break and come back," right?
00:13:33.078 --> 00:13:36.139
And eventually I realized, like,"Yeah, I'm gonna learn this thing.
00:13:36.859 --> 00:13:39.089
I just need more time with it.
00:13:39.129 --> 00:13:42.448
I'm gonna need to see it every day, but just a little bit," you know?
00:13:43.089 --> 00:13:45.239
and I think the key is actually taking that break.
00:13:45.249 --> 00:13:48.828
It's not trying to get it all in in one session, so
00:13:48.932 --> 00:13:49.263
Yeah.
00:13:49.582 --> 00:13:55.472
No, and like, and that I, again, it's like the hard part is like feeling guilty about it.
00:13:55.822 --> 00:14:09.072
But, you know, especially if you're doing it because you're in a rut like,'cause there obviously there's gonna be situations and people that abuse that, and they're just like,"Yeah.
00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:10.091
Yeah.
00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:14.520
And that's like the c- devil's advocate argument I have for you, right?
00:14:14.642 --> 00:14:17.361
When it comes to vacations, right?
00:14:17.532 --> 00:14:21.162
Tech, the tech world has invented the unlimited vacation,
00:14:21.307 --> 00:14:22.517
Invented, yeah.
00:14:23.371 --> 00:14:35.912
I think that tech jobs are, right, air quotes,"unlimited vacation," which is that you can take a vacation as long as, you know, it's not at a really busy time,
00:14:36.226 --> 00:14:36.557
Yeah.
00:14:37.211 --> 00:14:38.851
We're not counting the days.
00:14:38.912 --> 00:14:40.721
You can take as many days as you want,
00:14:40.856 --> 00:14:41.126
Yeah,
00:14:41.177 --> 00:14:42.907
but within reason,
00:14:42.962 --> 00:14:43.572
Yeah.
00:14:43.606 --> 00:14:43.897
right?
00:14:44.273 --> 00:14:46.462
Up to the discretion of your manager.
00:14:48.534 --> 00:14:49.745
These are all legitimate things.
00:14:49.934 --> 00:14:50.325
Yeah.
00:14:50.485 --> 00:14:52.605
think like,"Oh, wait, I can take a break anytime?
00:14:52.605 --> 00:14:53.056
That's great."
00:14:53.495 --> 00:14:56.245
I take off every, Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
00:14:56.677 --> 00:15:02.457
I know tons of people who, when they have unlimited vacation, they just don't take vacation.
00:15:02.937 --> 00:15:03.187
Yeah,
00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:11.789
The reason that a lot of companies use unlimited vacation is because they don't want people to really take the full, like, 20 days of vacation
00:15:12.230 --> 00:15:18.210
well, not only that, but like they don't have to pay you out for your balance because there is no balance.
00:15:18.538 --> 00:15:18.837
Right
00:15:18.980 --> 00:15:21.720
there's a lot of benefit from the company perspective,
00:15:21.868 --> 00:15:22.148
Right.
00:15:22.467 --> 00:15:25.057
Unless you're a power user of vacation,
00:15:25.168 --> 00:15:25.947
Oh, okay.
00:15:26.398 --> 00:15:30.988
I think every year, right, I try to take vacations regularly, right?
00:15:31.097 --> 00:15:32.378
And I think the key is,
00:15:33.011 --> 00:15:40.231
We are very fortunate, to have ability to work from home, right?
00:15:40.504 --> 00:15:40.514
Mm-hmm.
00:15:40.991 --> 00:15:45.331
Like, think about all the jobs that you can't do that, like construction worker,
00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:46.190
Right
00:15:46.241 --> 00:15:47.442
teachers.
00:15:47.951 --> 00:15:48.392
Yeah
00:15:48.491 --> 00:15:53.991
there, there's all these different jobs where there, you physically can't do it.
00:15:53.991 --> 00:15:58.371
And so you can very easily look at ours and look at how spoiled we are,
00:15:58.735 --> 00:15:58.745
A
00:15:58.761 --> 00:15:59.192
right?
00:15:59.326 --> 00:16:00.076
hundred percent
00:16:00.481 --> 00:16:00.912
Right?
00:16:01.121 --> 00:16:14.922
But, there's also another devil's advocate on the other side of that is, we can work at any time, which means, if a company wants to, they can abuse that power, and you will work at any time.
00:16:15.528 --> 00:16:15.548
No
00:16:15.601 --> 00:16:17.601
I've worked at jobs that are like that too,
00:16:17.884 --> 00:16:18.224
Yeah.
00:16:18.274 --> 00:16:19.974
you're waking up at midnight,
00:16:20.192 --> 00:16:20.351
to,
00:16:20.413 --> 00:16:20.724
AM.
00:16:20.812 --> 00:16:21.772
to wake up, yeah.
00:16:21.894 --> 00:16:22.134
Yeah
00:16:22.172 --> 00:16:23.481
on call, right?
00:16:23.481 --> 00:16:27.812
And you get an alert at, 1:00 AM, then 2:00 AM, then 3:00 AM.
00:16:27.822 --> 00:16:31.052
You have to wake up every single time that alert goes off and solve that problem,
00:16:31.221 --> 00:16:37.052
Yeah, te- teachers complaining about like grading homework at like 6:00 PM while they're watching, you know, eating din-
00:16:37.073 --> 00:16:37.543
yeah.
00:16:37.591 --> 00:16:39.631
Like, don't get me wrong, that's a real thing.
00:16:40.042 --> 00:16:44.011
But being, on all the time, right?
00:16:44.042 --> 00:16:52.211
Being like, basically imagine at any moment as a teacher that suddenly there's like a group of kids in front of you and you have to solve this problem.
00:16:52.631 --> 00:16:54.272
You have to teach them something,
00:16:54.888 --> 00:16:55.187
Yeah.
00:16:55.371 --> 00:16:55.981
suddenly.
00:16:56.881 --> 00:17:05.182
to that point, right, and this is why I don't feel guilty, is like I will take time durky- during working hours
00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:05.828
Mm-hmm.
00:17:06.241 --> 00:17:17.392
If no one needs me, I, and like my kid, you know, is having some sort of next graduation or a singing, competition or whatever, like I'll go, right?
00:17:17.866 --> 00:17:18.126
Yep
00:17:18.471 --> 00:17:23.612
there isn't any expectation from my job that I need to like make up those hours, because again, we have unlimited.
00:17:23.951 --> 00:17:33.541
But like I, I actually enjoy what I do, so when I do have free time, I do sometimes hop on work.
00:17:33.561 --> 00:17:34.892
I'll do it for an hour or two.
00:17:35.102 --> 00:17:37.442
But I like that flexibility, right?
00:17:37.521 --> 00:17:54.882
Because I think some of my best innovations or problem solvings happen between the hours of like 9:00 and 10:00, when like the kid's in bed, my wife's just like watching TV, doesn't really need me around, and like I'm free to do whatever I want.
00:17:54.882 --> 00:18:00.511
And it's like, you know, there was this one hard issue I just really wanna solve, and I think I figured out how to do it.
00:18:00.862 --> 00:18:04.801
I'll open my laptop for like an hour, and no one's on, so no one pings me, right?
00:18:04.892 --> 00:18:08.721
And it's just like straight work, and it's just productive work.
00:18:08.862 --> 00:18:08.882
Mm-hmm.
00:18:08.917 --> 00:18:10.018
lo- I love that,
00:18:10.188 --> 00:18:10.528
Yeah
00:18:10.613 --> 00:18:20.563
I love that f- ability to, that we have, which is we can work at any time, and as long as we get our work done, it doesn't matter when we get it done,
00:18:21.259 --> 00:18:21.630
Yeah
00:18:21.762 --> 00:18:23.512
doesn't have to be 9:00 to 5:00
00:18:24.026 --> 00:18:34.115
the audience for this talk, I think the biggest thing is, like, there are some people who work too much, and I want to encourage them to take more breaks, right?
00:18:34.125 --> 00:18:34.335
sure.
00:18:34.805 --> 00:18:35.424
I know there are
00:18:35.454 --> 00:18:37.565
the job that fits how you work.
00:18:38.015 --> 00:18:40.065
If you're a nine-to-five, do nine-to-five.
00:18:40.434 --> 00:18:45.144
if you're a scattered brain, find a job that lets you do scatter-brain work, right?
00:18:47.214 --> 00:18:48.394
and hopefully they hire you.
00:18:49.545 --> 00:18:50.555
don't just find it.
00:18:51.444 --> 00:18:51.734
Yeah.
00:18:51.785 --> 00:18:53.855
get the skills that are required for that job.
00:18:54.105 --> 00:18:54.454
Yeah.
00:18:54.825 --> 00:18:58.224
All right, well, we're, and 22 minutes in, Josh, so let's wrap this up.
00:18:58.541 --> 00:18:59.362
Let's wrap this up.
00:18:59.484 --> 00:19:00.724
fi- any final thoughts?
00:19:01.761 --> 00:19:03.922
I would say take breaks.
00:19:03.942 --> 00:19:04.821
It's good for you.
00:19:04.832 --> 00:19:05.922
It's good for the company.
00:19:06.771 --> 00:19:11.031
and don't even worry if it's in your first year, if it's in your first month, right?
00:19:11.392 --> 00:19:17.622
Sometimes you just need to take a break so your, you can compress and the company can figure it out as well.
00:19:17.692 --> 00:19:18.011
Yeah.
00:19:18.395 --> 00:19:19.296
that's my advice to you
00:19:19.682 --> 00:19:20.592
I love that, Sano.
00:19:20.942 --> 00:19:23.491
And for me, yeah, work how you work.
00:19:23.821 --> 00:19:29.432
As long as you get your work done, scatterbrain it as much as you want, or nine to five it as much as you want,
00:19:30.211 --> 00:19:31.402
Whatever works best for you.
00:19:31.696 --> 00:19:31.987
Yeah?
00:19:33.586 --> 00:19:34.126
All right.
00:19:34.416 --> 00:19:35.636
Well, thank you, Josh.
00:19:36.027 --> 00:19:36.846
Thank you, audience.
00:19:37.637 --> 00:19:38.057
Thanks, Jessica.
00:19:39.627 --> 00:19:39.837
See you
