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Hello and welcome to the CBCA Shadow Judgment Podcast, where young readers share their thoughts on the shortlisted books.
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My name is Poppy Holden and I'm the host for today's conversation.
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We'll be discussing the 2026 shortlisted title We Saw What You Started by Carla Salmon.
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Joining us is our reader, Arwa Hammond, and we'll later also hear from Carla Salmon herself.
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First, we'll start with Arwa.
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Would you like to share your response to the book?
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Yes, of course.
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In a nutshell, my response to the book is that I loved it.
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I loved it, would be an understatement to this book.
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From the genre to the characters to the setting to the plot, it was all so good and it went hand in hand to create a novel like Numbe 4.
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I will start off with the genre choice.
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The combination of the mystery genre with other genres like romance and sports and this whole competitive idea made it so special and unique.
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In most novels, teenagers would find that the genres are being pushed in, but in this one, it felt like it actually meant to be there as everyone's opinions were actually being said.
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Next, I wanted to speak about the setting.
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The setting, in my opinion, played a major role in my liking of this book.
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It had this coastal town, this beach area that everyone could really relate to just as a holiday place or even a place where you live in.
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And for myself, it created this feeling of nostalgia as I'm Egyptian, and it's just like how the life is over there.
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And including Otto there as this immigrant, as this person who doesn't really know where he is, he's trying to understand the place, could really help a lot of immigrant teenagers relate to the book.
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On the other hand, the characters were built to a top-tier level.
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Otto's character being like mature, competitive, fun to be around, but also likable, made it seem like he would be the type of person you want to be friends with and someone you want to actually meet in real life.
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And then Millie and Jasper, this main twin duo, would be the most un-stereotypical twin duo ever.
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We would expect twins to be besties, the ones that are always together, but for Millie and Jasper, it was more of this competition between them.
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It's who's gonna prove themselves to their dad.
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And the dad, on the other hand, was like over-protective of Millie as she's like the only daughter, and so on.
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And all of these characters coming together as like protagonists of the story created a sense of community for everyone.
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And then when we come to the antagonists, I would say it's like White, Bailey, and Cooper.
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Whites and Bailey, at the start, I was like, they won't have that much to them.
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And then after that, as we go through the story, I'm like, wow, these characters actually feel like demons.
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And then Cooper, on the other hand, was like one of my most interesting characters because Cooper was like, at the start, I hated him.
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I was like, why is that guy even existing?
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And then in the end, I'm like, okay, Cooper, he has morals, but he could like meet it better, you know?
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And then finally, the plot.
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The plot was a roller coaster for the reader.
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It unfolded a sense of mystery while also connecting it to a teenager's life, how overwhelming it could be.
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For example, when Otto arrives in Red Sands, he's just trying to overcome the trauma from where he was before and the fire that met his house.
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And on the other hand, we have Millie's story of trying to prove herself, determination that she really wants to be the captain of the club.
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And adding those storylines together shows how a life could be so overwhelming and how you could have everything in your life and you could solve everything.
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You just need time.
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And then the novel overall was relatable in all senses.
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It really represented us as teenagers.
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And I think any older reader would enjoy reading it.
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I actually wished if the novel was longer, that would there like more characters, more clues, more tension, because it was just a roller coaster.
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But yeah, I think I enjoyed the novel overall, and I wished it was like way longer.
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One of the best novels I've read.
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Thank you so much for those insights, Awa.
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I now just have a couple of follow-up questions.
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Was there a moment in the narrative or plot that stood out most to you?
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Oh yes, my favorite part of the novel, my favorite part of the plot was when Millie was speaking to her dad.
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I felt like their conversations were ones that most teenagers would have with their parents.
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Because we as teenagers, when we look at our parents, they're like, I don't feel like they understand anything.
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I don't think they understand me.
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And Millie really like put that in.
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Like, I don't think my dad gets where I am.
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But then we could also see the dad's point of view in the story, how he's trying to protect her, protect her health, and so on.
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So having those two together, like their conversations, they were always like a turning point for the novel.
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Yeah, I love that as well.
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And another moment that was memorable for me was this is more to do with the plot, I guess, but it was the opening of the book with the bushfire, and how that really sets the tone for the tension, and as you mentioned, the different genres and the nuance in the characters.
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So that was a moment that stood out for me particularly.
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And in this book, the point of view is split between the two main protagonists.
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How did this affect your experience in reading?
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I felt like it made it even more enjoyable because it didn't feel like I was reading one novel.
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It was like I'm reading two novels at the same time, but they're also connected.
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So it's not like a sequel, but it's also not two different novels.
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And having those two point of views, especially that they're speaking about each other from each other's point of views, created this like whole overall, like as if you're like the one in control, like I know what you're doing, I know what you're doing.
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It gives the reader this power of okay, I know everything that's happening here.
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No, I completely agree.
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I thought that it added a lot to the story, particularly because it is this mystery, so it adds that sense in some moments where there's like distrust or confusion or not like sharing everything.
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Yeah, as a reader, you get to see the full picture and you just go, like, tell them, tell them everything.
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The setting, as you mentioned, is really strongly rooted in an Australian coastal town.
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And how did this contribute to the story for you?
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So it's really created this sense of like wanting to go home because I feel like when everyone goes to the beach, it just feels more of like just a fun day.
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You create a lot of memories there, and setting it there would just make it even more memorable for the reader because they connect it to something that might have happened in their real life in a beach and so on.
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Yeah, and I loved how you mentioned previously that it had that sense of nostalgia from the setting.
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Like, I think that is such a big aspect, that sense of like childhood that often is associated with the beach.
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So I agree with how vivid it felt in that regard, and how I personally don't live by the coast, but those depictions of that like small town dynamic as well, and at the life saving club felt all so vivid, even though I personally not experienced that.
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This novel captures, as you mentioned, a diverse range of these genuine teenage characters with those nuanced relationships.
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Was there a particular character or relationship that you really related to or felt particularly genuine?
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I felt like I'm most related to Millie, especially from her competitive side, because I really loved how even during her competition, when she's like about to win, she's just at the end, and then suddenly like something happens in an accident, and she's like, Well, do I go?
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Should I win, or should I help her?
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And I guess that conflicting character of her being like, I want to stick to my morals, but I also want to win, like, really represents myself.
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And then also with relationships, I felt like the relationship between Jasper and Millie, it's just a very complicated and well-built relationship because yes, they do love each other, they really care about each other, but at the same time, they're like, I need to be better than you in any way.
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Millie is my favorite twin, though, like out of both of us.
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No, I completely agree with that.
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I found the relationship between Millie and Jasper really interesting.
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How you know you see the frustration from Millie towards Jasper throughout the book, but then as you know the plot goes on, she is very protective over him and wants to help him out, and that adds to that nuance in characters.
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It isn't all just black and white, there's sort of more dimension to them, which is very effective.
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Thank you for all the all of your thoughts.
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Thank you for sharing all of that.
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Now we're joined by Carla Salmon, author of We Saw What You Started.
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Carla, do you have any initial reactions to Arwa's comments?
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Oh gosh, I am so completely blown away, Arwa, with your capturing of my story.
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You really have talked about the essence of what I was trying to create in terms of the vibe and to create a story that really rings true to a teen's age and stage.
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So I started writing this story initially because my own young teens had stopped reading for pleasure as much.
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And I wanted to really appeal to them and make sure that the story hit home for them in a world that they could see themselves in, but also they could escape a little bit into.
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So, you know, thank you so much for deep diving and for really considering those characters.
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I absolutely love the idea that the setting takes you to universal places, you know, it can be a global destination.
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And I've had, you know, feedback like that.
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They can see that the beach setting could be in Perth or in Victoria or actually, you know, in my home in Queensland.
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So I really, really love that it did that for you and that the story felt like it had realistic relationships because for me, I'm also a teacher, and I think kids will be really honest when they read and when they reflect on life.
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And so if a story doesn't actually mirror those realistic interactions and offer something that is deep enough and sophisticated enough in those interactions, you know, teenagers will just stop reading immediately.
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I know my own teens can be really critical.
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And if there's any ick in any story that makes them pause, they are just offered immediately.
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And I actually have my teens de-cringe my manuscripts many times before it goes to my publisher.
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My son is particularly brutal in his feedback and he'll say things like, Oh mum, that's just not realistic.
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That's not how teenagers speak to each other.
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And I'm constantly reminded when you know people like yourself, Ara, read it, and my own kids and my own students read my books that you know, we have to, as authors, always be checking in and making sure that the way that we're seeing teenagers interact is actually a true reflection on how they see themselves.
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And we have to take a step back from our own life experiences and really remember back to, you know, when we were teenagers, what did we love?
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What was most important in our lives?
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What would we have done for our friends without the added, you know, 30 years of experience?
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I don't want to say 30, it shows my age, um, of understanding what good choices are, not just for ourselves, but for others.
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So yeah, thrilled to bits that you enjoyed it.
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And, you know, fortunately, I've got book two coming out in the series where it's actually from Alex and Luna's perspective.
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So, but I wanted to explore other characters in that group because I think, yeah, there is a lot more to play with in the Red Sands world.
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Thank you.
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The themes, as you've just mentioned, are so significant to teenagers.
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You touch on insecurity around public perception, making friends, and dealing with peer pressure.
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Is there a particular moral lesson or something you wanted to show to your teenage readers?
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Yeah, so when I started writing this story three years ago, I was actually head of year at my school.
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So I was in charge of supporting students when they made mistakes, essentially, and helping guide them to be back on track.
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And so I would see a lot of, I guess, let's call them mistakes or let's call them learning opportunities that kids would make.
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And I really love teenagers, I really love hanging out with teenagers.
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So whenever I was having conversations with kids who had made mistakes or pushed boundaries beyond, you know, where they were meant to, the one thing I always wanted to tell them is that everything is figure outable.
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So, you know, you can learn and you can come back.
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And you know what, it's okay as long as we tell each other something and have people in our lives that will really truly have each other's backs.
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And I also wanted to show that from the outside as well, it sometimes it looks like some kids have it all figured out, right?
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Like they've got these perfect friendships and or they might have even, you know, relationships and it can look really shiny and glamorous from the outside.
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But even the kids who look like they're the most popular or have the most stability, I guess, in their friendships, there's still so many dynamics within these social groups that change and they're really dynamic.
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And everyone feels a little bit of insecurity, everyone feels worry about maintaining those friendships.
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And so they will often, you know, really push those boundaries to keep their friends, which is a really good thing, but also they're sometimes taking risks that they may not need to do.
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And so I guess to let teenagers know that if there's moments where you are feeling a little bit vulnerable or a little bit lonely, that actually you're probably amongst the majority.
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You're actually not the minority here.
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And, you know, especially for new kids arriving in particular, you know, small, tight-knitted communities, it's actually okay and completely normal to feel like you don't fit in immediately because even the kids who have been there for a long time, they probably still haven't found their exact place.
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Because teenage life, it's a period of growth and understanding, you know, who you are and never really feeling quite right because you know you're not meant to peak during your teenage years, you're meant to be continuing to learn and grow.
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So a little bit of reassurance that you can feel comfort in just being you and being a little bit more kind and being a little bit more open to new friendships and new dynamics, and kinder to yourself as well, as if you make mistakes, yes, okay, things will go wrong, but please tell someone, and in the end, everything will be figure outable.
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So I want it to be a fun read where whilst you might have the adrenaline rush throughout the story with the thriller, it's like a bit of a warm hug at the end.
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That's so lovely.
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Thank you for that.
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And as we've mentioned, there is that change in narration that both um R and I really loved and found effective.
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But how difficult was it to write for both these very different characters?
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And did you do it simultaneously?
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The POV was really interesting actually because this was my first ever manuscript.
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And so I learned to write a book as I was writing this story, and so initially it was just Otto's perspective.
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Um, he wasn't actually Otto at the start, he was a character called Finn.
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But turns out Finn is not a great name to use if you're writing about a surfing lifestyle.
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Lots of other Finns that come into a sector.
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So he became Otto, and I did write the story from his perspective first, and then as Millie became involved, oh, she was just a force to be reckoned with.
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She clearly was going to insist on having her own voice.
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And so I realized that actually this story is not complete without Millie's POV.
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And so I went back and I rewrote the story, subbing in Millie's perspective in alternating chapters.
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And of course, as I got to know Millie better and her friendship with Luna, who I like, I love Luna, she's so much fun.
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Millie's best friend.
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And that dynamic I actually related to a lot more because I was, you know, like you, Arwa, I was a competitive, you know, girl as a teenager, both academically and in a sporting culture.
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And I I also I never really knew where the balance was between being able to be fierce, but also appearing to be kind because I was both.
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And so I wanted to kind of explore that dynamic and show that you know, girls can be tough, they can be determined, they can want to win.
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Actually, that's okay.
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And that's not a matter of of um, you know, being yeah, not kind either.
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You can absolutely be all of those things as a young woman.
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Thank you for that.
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To finish, one final quick question for Arwa.
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In one sentence, why should someone read this book?
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I would say anyone should read this book because it's really relatable.
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It could really make you feel like, okay, I know I have a lot of problems in my life, but at least this book exists.
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So at least I could go out into this other world, I could explore it, I could actually relate to someone else that maybe not even real, but it just creates the sense of not alone as a teenager.
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And I guess that's the main reason I would read this book.
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Thank you to Arwa and Carla for joining us today.
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And thank you for listening to the CBCA Shadow Judging Podcast .
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Hello and welcome to the CBCA Shadow Judgment Podcast, where young readers share their thoughts on the shortlisted books.
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My name is Poppy Holden and I'm the host for today's conversation.
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We'll be discussing the 2026 shortlisted title We Saw What You Started by Carla Salmon.
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Joining us is our reader, Arwa Hammond, and we'll later also hear from Carla Salmon herself.
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First, we'll start with Arwa.
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Would you like to share your response to the book?
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Yes, of course.
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In a nutshell, my response to the book is that I loved it.
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I loved it, would be an understatement to this book.
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From the genre to the characters to the setting to the plot, it was all so good and it went hand in hand to create a novel like Numbe 4.
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I will start off with the genre choice.
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The combination of the mystery genre with other genres like romance and sports and this whole competitive idea made it so special and unique.
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In most novels, teenagers would find that the genres are being pushed in, but in this one, it felt like it actually meant to be there as everyone's opinions were actually being said.
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Next, I wanted to speak about the setting.
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The setting, in my opinion, played a major role in my liking of this book.
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It had this coastal town, this beach area that everyone could really relate to just as a holiday place or even a place where you live in.
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And for myself, it created this feeling of nostalgia as I'm Egyptian, and it's just like how the life is over there.
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And including Otto there as this immigrant, as this person who doesn't really know where he is, he's trying to understand the place, could really help a lot of immigrant teenagers relate to the book.
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On the other hand, the characters were built to a top-tier level.
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Otto's character being like mature, competitive, fun to be around, but also likable, made it seem like he would be the type of person you want to be friends with and someone you want to actually meet in real life.
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And then Millie and Jasper, this main twin duo, would be the most un-stereotypical twin duo ever.
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We would expect twins to be besties, the ones that are always together, but for Millie and Jasper, it was more of this competition between them.
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It's who's gonna prove themselves to their dad.
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And the dad, on the other hand, was like over-protective of Millie as she's like the only daughter, and so on.
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And all of these characters coming together as like protagonists of the story created a sense of community for everyone.
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And then when we come to the antagonists, I would say it's like White, Bailey, and Cooper.
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Whites and Bailey, at the start, I was like, they won't have that much to them.
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And then after that, as we go through the story, I'm like, wow, these characters actually feel like demons.
00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:15.439
And then Cooper, on the other hand, was like one of my most interesting characters because Cooper was like, at the start, I hated him.
00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:17.360
I was like, why is that guy even existing?
00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:24.719
And then in the end, I'm like, okay, Cooper, he has morals, but he could like meet it better, you know?
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:26.800
And then finally, the plot.
00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:29.199
The plot was a roller coaster for the reader.
00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:36.080
It unfolded a sense of mystery while also connecting it to a teenager's life, how overwhelming it could be.
00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:44.960
For example, when Otto arrives in Red Sands, he's just trying to overcome the trauma from where he was before and the fire that met his house.
00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:52.400
And on the other hand, we have Millie's story of trying to prove herself, determination that she really wants to be the captain of the club.
00:03:52.400 --> 00:04:02.000
And adding those storylines together shows how a life could be so overwhelming and how you could have everything in your life and you could solve everything.
00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:03.360
You just need time.
00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:07.680
And then the novel overall was relatable in all senses.
00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:10.719
It really represented us as teenagers.
00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:14.000
And I think any older reader would enjoy reading it.
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:22.399
I actually wished if the novel was longer, that would there like more characters, more clues, more tension, because it was just a roller coaster.
00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:26.800
But yeah, I think I enjoyed the novel overall, and I wished it was like way longer.
00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:28.800
One of the best novels I've read.
00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:31.199
Thank you so much for those insights, Awa.
00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:34.079
I now just have a couple of follow-up questions.
00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:39.680
Was there a moment in the narrative or plot that stood out most to you?
00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:47.040
Oh yes, my favorite part of the novel, my favorite part of the plot was when Millie was speaking to her dad.
00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:52.800
I felt like their conversations were ones that most teenagers would have with their parents.
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:58.079
Because we as teenagers, when we look at our parents, they're like, I don't feel like they understand anything.
00:04:58.079 --> 00:04:59.839
I don't think they understand me.
00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:02.399
And Millie really like put that in.
00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:05.199
Like, I don't think my dad gets where I am.
00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:11.680
But then we could also see the dad's point of view in the story, how he's trying to protect her, protect her health, and so on.
00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:18.720
So having those two together, like their conversations, they were always like a turning point for the novel.
00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:20.480
Yeah, I love that as well.
00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:35.839
And another moment that was memorable for me was this is more to do with the plot, I guess, but it was the opening of the book with the bushfire, and how that really sets the tone for the tension, and as you mentioned, the different genres and the nuance in the characters.
00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:38.720
So that was a moment that stood out for me particularly.
00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:43.759
And in this book, the point of view is split between the two main protagonists.
00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:47.040
How did this affect your experience in reading?
00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:52.079
I felt like it made it even more enjoyable because it didn't feel like I was reading one novel.
00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:55.839
It was like I'm reading two novels at the same time, but they're also connected.
00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:59.680
So it's not like a sequel, but it's also not two different novels.
00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:12.319
And having those two point of views, especially that they're speaking about each other from each other's point of views, created this like whole overall, like as if you're like the one in control, like I know what you're doing, I know what you're doing.
00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:17.040
It gives the reader this power of okay, I know everything that's happening here.
00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:18.959
No, I completely agree.
00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:29.199
I thought that it added a lot to the story, particularly because it is this mystery, so it adds that sense in some moments where there's like distrust or confusion or not like sharing everything.
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:33.600
Yeah, as a reader, you get to see the full picture and you just go, like, tell them, tell them everything.
00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:39.600
The setting, as you mentioned, is really strongly rooted in an Australian coastal town.
00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.879
And how did this contribute to the story for you?
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:53.519
So it's really created this sense of like wanting to go home because I feel like when everyone goes to the beach, it just feels more of like just a fun day.
00:06:53.519 --> 00:07:05.040
You create a lot of memories there, and setting it there would just make it even more memorable for the reader because they connect it to something that might have happened in their real life in a beach and so on.
00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:10.720
Yeah, and I loved how you mentioned previously that it had that sense of nostalgia from the setting.
00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:17.199
Like, I think that is such a big aspect, that sense of like childhood that often is associated with the beach.
00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:34.399
So I agree with how vivid it felt in that regard, and how I personally don't live by the coast, but those depictions of that like small town dynamic as well, and at the life saving club felt all so vivid, even though I personally not experienced that.
00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:42.560
This novel captures, as you mentioned, a diverse range of these genuine teenage characters with those nuanced relationships.
00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:48.879
Was there a particular character or relationship that you really related to or felt particularly genuine?
00:07:49.120 --> 00:08:04.480
I felt like I'm most related to Millie, especially from her competitive side, because I really loved how even during her competition, when she's like about to win, she's just at the end, and then suddenly like something happens in an accident, and she's like, Well, do I go?
00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:06.160
Should I win, or should I help her?
00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:14.879
And I guess that conflicting character of her being like, I want to stick to my morals, but I also want to win, like, really represents myself.
00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:30.959
And then also with relationships, I felt like the relationship between Jasper and Millie, it's just a very complicated and well-built relationship because yes, they do love each other, they really care about each other, but at the same time, they're like, I need to be better than you in any way.
00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:34.399
Millie is my favorite twin, though, like out of both of us.
00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:36.320
No, I completely agree with that.
00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.600
I found the relationship between Millie and Jasper really interesting.
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:51.919
How you know you see the frustration from Millie towards Jasper throughout the book, but then as you know the plot goes on, she is very protective over him and wants to help him out, and that adds to that nuance in characters.
00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:56.960
It isn't all just black and white, there's sort of more dimension to them, which is very effective.
00:08:56.960 --> 00:08:59.360
Thank you for all the all of your thoughts.
00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:00.960
Thank you for sharing all of that.
00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:05.519
Now we're joined by Carla Salmon, author of We Saw What You Started.
00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:09.679
Carla, do you have any initial reactions to Arwa's comments?
00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:15.759
Oh gosh, I am so completely blown away, Arwa, with your capturing of my story.
00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:28.799
You really have talked about the essence of what I was trying to create in terms of the vibe and to create a story that really rings true to a teen's age and stage.
00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:34.960
So I started writing this story initially because my own young teens had stopped reading for pleasure as much.
00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:46.240
And I wanted to really appeal to them and make sure that the story hit home for them in a world that they could see themselves in, but also they could escape a little bit into.
00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:52.000
So, you know, thank you so much for deep diving and for really considering those characters.
00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:59.840
I absolutely love the idea that the setting takes you to universal places, you know, it can be a global destination.
00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:01.919
And I've had, you know, feedback like that.
00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:08.879
They can see that the beach setting could be in Perth or in Victoria or actually, you know, in my home in Queensland.
00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:24.559
So I really, really love that it did that for you and that the story felt like it had realistic relationships because for me, I'm also a teacher, and I think kids will be really honest when they read and when they reflect on life.
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:39.039
And so if a story doesn't actually mirror those realistic interactions and offer something that is deep enough and sophisticated enough in those interactions, you know, teenagers will just stop reading immediately.
00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.360
I know my own teens can be really critical.
00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:46.240
And if there's any ick in any story that makes them pause, they are just offered immediately.
00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:52.480
And I actually have my teens de-cringe my manuscripts many times before it goes to my publisher.
00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:58.879
My son is particularly brutal in his feedback and he'll say things like, Oh mum, that's just not realistic.
00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:01.200
That's not how teenagers speak to each other.
00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:21.279
And I'm constantly reminded when you know people like yourself, Ara, read it, and my own kids and my own students read my books that you know, we have to, as authors, always be checking in and making sure that the way that we're seeing teenagers interact is actually a true reflection on how they see themselves.
00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:31.679
And we have to take a step back from our own life experiences and really remember back to, you know, when we were teenagers, what did we love?
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:33.840
What was most important in our lives?
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:40.320
What would we have done for our friends without the added, you know, 30 years of experience?
00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:49.039
I don't want to say 30, it shows my age, um, of understanding what good choices are, not just for ourselves, but for others.
00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:51.679
So yeah, thrilled to bits that you enjoyed it.
00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:58.000
And, you know, fortunately, I've got book two coming out in the series where it's actually from Alex and Luna's perspective.
00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:06.320
So, but I wanted to explore other characters in that group because I think, yeah, there is a lot more to play with in the Red Sands world.
00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:07.200
Thank you.
00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:12.000
The themes, as you've just mentioned, are so significant to teenagers.
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:18.159
You touch on insecurity around public perception, making friends, and dealing with peer pressure.
00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:24.080
Is there a particular moral lesson or something you wanted to show to your teenage readers?
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:30.159
Yeah, so when I started writing this story three years ago, I was actually head of year at my school.
00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:37.440
So I was in charge of supporting students when they made mistakes, essentially, and helping guide them to be back on track.
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:45.039
And so I would see a lot of, I guess, let's call them mistakes or let's call them learning opportunities that kids would make.
00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:48.480
And I really love teenagers, I really love hanging out with teenagers.
00:12:48.480 --> 00:13:00.399
So whenever I was having conversations with kids who had made mistakes or pushed boundaries beyond, you know, where they were meant to, the one thing I always wanted to tell them is that everything is figure outable.
00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.840
So, you know, you can learn and you can come back.
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:11.519
And you know what, it's okay as long as we tell each other something and have people in our lives that will really truly have each other's backs.
00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:19.679
And I also wanted to show that from the outside as well, it sometimes it looks like some kids have it all figured out, right?
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:29.200
Like they've got these perfect friendships and or they might have even, you know, relationships and it can look really shiny and glamorous from the outside.
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:42.000
But even the kids who look like they're the most popular or have the most stability, I guess, in their friendships, there's still so many dynamics within these social groups that change and they're really dynamic.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:48.799
And everyone feels a little bit of insecurity, everyone feels worry about maintaining those friendships.
00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:59.279
And so they will often, you know, really push those boundaries to keep their friends, which is a really good thing, but also they're sometimes taking risks that they may not need to do.
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:09.679
And so I guess to let teenagers know that if there's moments where you are feeling a little bit vulnerable or a little bit lonely, that actually you're probably amongst the majority.
00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:11.440
You're actually not the minority here.
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:27.360
And, you know, especially for new kids arriving in particular, you know, small, tight-knitted communities, it's actually okay and completely normal to feel like you don't fit in immediately because even the kids who have been there for a long time, they probably still haven't found their exact place.
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:40.240
Because teenage life, it's a period of growth and understanding, you know, who you are and never really feeling quite right because you know you're not meant to peak during your teenage years, you're meant to be continuing to learn and grow.
00:14:40.240 --> 00:15:00.080
So a little bit of reassurance that you can feel comfort in just being you and being a little bit more kind and being a little bit more open to new friendships and new dynamics, and kinder to yourself as well, as if you make mistakes, yes, okay, things will go wrong, but please tell someone, and in the end, everything will be figure outable.
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:08.799
So I want it to be a fun read where whilst you might have the adrenaline rush throughout the story with the thriller, it's like a bit of a warm hug at the end.
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:10.480
That's so lovely.
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:11.679
Thank you for that.
00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:19.519
And as we've mentioned, there is that change in narration that both um R and I really loved and found effective.
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.840
But how difficult was it to write for both these very different characters?
00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:26.320
And did you do it simultaneously?
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:31.919
The POV was really interesting actually because this was my first ever manuscript.
00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:39.679
And so I learned to write a book as I was writing this story, and so initially it was just Otto's perspective.
00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:43.200
Um, he wasn't actually Otto at the start, he was a character called Finn.
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:48.159
But turns out Finn is not a great name to use if you're writing about a surfing lifestyle.
00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.559
Lots of other Finns that come into a sector.
00:15:50.559 --> 00:16:00.399
So he became Otto, and I did write the story from his perspective first, and then as Millie became involved, oh, she was just a force to be reckoned with.
00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:04.240
She clearly was going to insist on having her own voice.
00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:11.200
And so I realized that actually this story is not complete without Millie's POV.
00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:17.919
And so I went back and I rewrote the story, subbing in Millie's perspective in alternating chapters.
00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:24.320
And of course, as I got to know Millie better and her friendship with Luna, who I like, I love Luna, she's so much fun.
00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:25.919
Millie's best friend.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:37.120
And that dynamic I actually related to a lot more because I was, you know, like you, Arwa, I was a competitive, you know, girl as a teenager, both academically and in a sporting culture.
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:46.799
And I I also I never really knew where the balance was between being able to be fierce, but also appearing to be kind because I was both.
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:54.799
And so I wanted to kind of explore that dynamic and show that you know, girls can be tough, they can be determined, they can want to win.
00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:56.399
Actually, that's okay.
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:02.080
And that's not a matter of of um, you know, being yeah, not kind either.
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.119
You can absolutely be all of those things as a young woman.
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:06.319
Thank you for that.
00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:09.839
To finish, one final quick question for Arwa.
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.920
In one sentence, why should someone read this book?
00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:19.440
I would say anyone should read this book because it's really relatable.
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:26.079
It could really make you feel like, okay, I know I have a lot of problems in my life, but at least this book exists.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:39.839
So at least I could go out into this other world, I could explore it, I could actually relate to someone else that maybe not even real, but it just creates the sense of not alone as a teenager.
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:43.599
And I guess that's the main reason I would read this book.
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:47.119
Thank you to Arwa and Carla for joining us today.
00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.799
And thank you for listening to the CBCA Shadow Judging Podcast .
