00:00:05
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective Podcast from Newstalk ZB.
00:00:10
Speaker 2: Politics Central.
00:00:11
Speaker 3: So yes, the Labour Party has announced plans to get kids off screens and get them back to being kids with better access to after-school activities, placing healthier boundaries between children and their devices and boosting online safety measures for children.
00:00:24
Speaker 2: They say that the party says too many children.
00:00:27
Speaker 3: Too many childhoods are being spent on screens, with sport, hobbies and other activities being out of reach for many families. So they'll work with experts, educators and young people to strike the right balance. And Labour Party education spokesperson Ginny.
00:00:39
Speaker 2: Anderson joins me now. Good afternoon. Oh, hang on a minute. We just can't hear you there, Ginny. Are you there? I think we've got you. Say hello again.
00:00:49
Speaker 1: Hello.
00:00:49
Speaker 2: Have you got me now?
00:00:50
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:00:51
Speaker 2: Hello.
00:00:51
Speaker 4: Hi.
00:00:51
Speaker 1: Hi.
00:00:52
Speaker 4: It's there. Good. Excellent. I'm in my car, so hopefully that works. Okay.
00:00:56
Speaker 2: Are you moving? Do I need to worry about you driving?
00:00:58
Speaker 1: No, I'm not moving.
00:00:59
Speaker 4: I'm 100% stationary.
00:01:01
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:01:02
Speaker 3: Look, I imagine you've got plenty of consensus across this in the future from other parties, but how much of the policy is different to what the current government has done or was proposing?
00:01:15
Speaker 4: We're offering a healthy alternative to getting kids off screen, and that's sport. So it's one thing to tell your child, you know, you've had enough screen time. But often parents need an alternative to get them into sport. And so by removing those barriers to community sport, we think this provides a really good alternative.
00:01:32
Speaker 3: Hey, by the way, I assume that you'll support the under-16 social media bill that was introduced in August. Is that along the lines of, whoa, is there something about that you'd change?
00:01:44
Speaker 4: We've said that we would support that, and we've got more policy coming shortly on that as well.
00:01:48
Speaker 1: OK.
00:01:49
Speaker 3: Also, the current government, Erica Stanford, has proposed banning screens in early childhood education or restricting their use in primary schools. I think your policy, is that proposing school-based policies rather than a national sort of approach?
00:02:05
Speaker 4: There's some existing guidelines that are from experts about what the good use is. We want to update those guidelines. and have requirements on boards of trustees. So each school would set that out clearly, and we want to make sure that there's consistency there, but it also works for that school.
00:02:25
Speaker 2: Is that a problem in a way?
00:02:26
Speaker 3: Because there are some schools who are going to be really good at dealing with this, and you've got to be honest, there were some schools who were not so flash.
00:02:34
Speaker 4: Well, there's already clear requirements through what boards of trustees are required to do. So with the Ministry of Education to make sure that schools are putting in clear requirements, they're communicating those to the parents and the community, and that they are in place. And they would stipulate what the amount of screen time is and what kind of safety protections on screen use are in place as well for children.
00:02:56
Speaker 3: You've got the Active Me Kia 2 programme. That was started under you guys, I think, in 2021 and extended by the current government last year. So is there something new about this, or is this just saying we're going to continue with something that's already out there?
00:03:15
Speaker 4: So that funding runs out, and we would continue that funding by providing an additional $ 3 million.
00:03:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another $ 4 million for after-schools.
00:03:23
Speaker 4: And it's been good.
00:03:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, sorry, you can talk about that if you like. Sorry, sorry.
00:03:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been great. So over 10,000 kids have benefited from that, and we want to make sure it's available. It pays for things like boots for soccer or subs. It's $ 300 for over a two-year period to give parents who can't afford to get their kids to sport a bit of assistance. And in cost of living pressures, we know that there are some really hard decisions being made in family budgets. So we would hate kids to miss out because the price of food and et cetera has increased.
00:03:54
Speaker 3: That extra $ 4 million for after-school sport and activities, is that an additional thing?
00:04:00
Speaker 4: Yes, that is an additional thing. So there's some great local providers, lots in the hut. We've been out here to announce today. So that's more money for community-based organisations to be able to make after-school sport available. And they're not only good for kids, but parents get outside too on the sidelines and get to join in. So in general, I think we all grew up playing sport and most families think we could do with a bit more of that being available.
00:04:24
Speaker 2: What's the total cost of what you've announced today?
00:04:28
Speaker 4: It's $ 7 million and that's per year over four years.
00:04:32
Speaker 2: Well, that's not going to frighten the horses too much considering some of the costs we see.
00:04:36
Speaker 4: It's going to go a long way though. I agree, but it's not excessive, but we think that's a good amount to extend what's there already. But it's also not just saying we're going to say, get off your screen. We're giving kids something else to do.
00:04:51
Speaker 3: How big a challenge, I think this is more related to, this question is more related to the whole screen time thing. How big a challenge is it And is it going to be to get parents on board? Because I've had that discussion in our house about my children who we don't want to have social media, and yet they use that line. Sometimes they're not telling the truth, of course, about, oh, my friends have all got it.
00:05:13
Speaker 2: I'm being left out.
00:05:13
Speaker 3: But there are some parents who are far more casual about this stuff. So how do we get parents on board with this stuff?
00:05:21
Speaker 4: Well, I think schools having to have clear requirements on what screen use is at school, that provides a really good opportunity for parents, if they want to, to say, hey, these are the limits that school are placing. Let's have a conversation about what might work in our own house. And if your family is like mine, then those conversations are pretty frequent. So having some guardrails in place and parents being able to look at what the school set up as a starting point could provide a really helpful conversation starter on, on how you get more healthy screen use at home.
00:05:52
Speaker 3: Is there, I mean, how easy is it to measure and to create a target? How do you measure the target and how do we know that, you know, how do we, how soon would we know that this is working?
00:06:04
Speaker 4: Well, we want more kids out there and active. So I think by the uptake of more kids out and engaging in community sport, that's a good starter. But I think the Minister of Education will be able to report back and say if these have been implemented and the types of outcomes they're seeing and hopefully getting more kids engaging in a healthy way in community sport is generally a good thing to be achieving.
00:06:24
Speaker 3: Hey, you know, the biggest thing is, I mean, I don't think there'd be anyone in the political spectrum who'd disagree with this, but the biggest problem, I would argue, is... social media companies themselves. We've got Meta, Google, we've had those multi-billion dollar lawsuits they've settled. What thoughts have you got around what we can do to deal with the elephant in the room, really, isn't it?
00:06:49
Speaker 4: Yes, and we've got more policy coming on that shortly, so we'll have more to say soon.
00:06:53
Speaker 2: How soon?
00:06:56
Speaker 4: Pretty soon.
00:07:00
Speaker 2: Pretty soon.
00:07:01
Speaker 1: Very soon.
00:07:01
Speaker 2: I guess... You know, between now and the election could be pretty soon. Sorry.
00:07:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we know that it works. It's almost, it's two sides of the same coin. So it's important to have all the positive things in place. But yes, we'll have more policy coming out very shortly on the age and how that's being used.
00:07:22
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:07:24
Speaker 3: Are there particular platforms where, How do you identify which platforms are okay and which ones aren't? Because we can name the obvious ones, the Snapchats, the Instagram, Facebook. YouTube starts getting more problematic because there's a lot of educational stuff on there. What's the approach you take to identifying the troublesome platforms?
00:07:48
Speaker 4: There's two really useful tools that parents should be aware of. And one is the screening tool. So you can apply that to your phone. It's a good one to be able to screen out things that you would search, for example, on Google that are not appropriate. And there's also some really good digital guidance on place. So part of this announcement is enabling what tools are already available to ensure that kids are safe online and giving parents greater access to understand how they can put those into place.
00:08:15
Speaker 2: What's your view?
00:08:16
Speaker 3: I mean, it's difficult to ask this question separately, you know, your role as a mum is also as a politician, but what's your view on when kids should get their first cell phone?
00:08:27
Speaker 4: It's really tough because some parents, of course, with work and demands, you want to know if the kid's safe on the bus coming home and things like that. So, you know, that is a choice for that family for what works. My personal approach is I've tried to delay as long as possible. So the longer you can stretch it out, the better.
00:08:46
Speaker 2: How long did you stretch it for? You don't have to tell me, but.
00:08:48
Speaker 4: You know. Twelve. Twelve I managed to get to. And even then they have... very limited use so that's no data and limited screening and I've also connected them to my phone so you can limit what apps they have access to and how many hours a day.
00:09:07
Speaker 3: Obviously it's election season and everyone wants to differentiate themselves but I would imagine with the I can't imagine there'd be a hell of a lot of opposition to any of these ideas because I mean national hate kids being on their phones I would imagine the Greens do and and I don't know about the other lot, I don't act in New Zealand First, I would assume so, you'd imagine you'd get a fair bit of cross-party support with this, wouldn't you?
00:09:31
Speaker 4: You do, and I think generally people want to put kids first, so we want to be working collectively with schools and with families to make sure there's good advice, that people are following the right guidance, and if people, if parents particularly, are wanting more help, that should be made more readily available. It's often hard to start that conversation once it's The genie's out of the box. If kids have got really unlimited screen time in your house, how do you claw that back? That's a constant one I get asked about. So we think by having those clear requirements set by our school boards, that provides you know parents a good starting place to have a conversation as to what they want in their own homes.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: Okay just for people who are you know still swinging around with their votes what is the thing about this policy that you would say is different to what other parties might be wanting to put in place or have put in place?
00:10:19
Speaker 4: Giving kids access to sport, so removing those barriers to doing a healthy alternative. So it's all real well to say, you know, no screens or limit screens, but giving parents and kids access to good community sport. We all grow up playing sport. We know the benefits of what that teaches kids and that it's healthy, good for them to play together and to learn about being in a team, turning up, discipline. So we want all of those things being made available to kids growing up in New Zealand now.
00:10:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:10:46
Speaker 3: Now, I know you mentioned you've got this policy about what we do about Meta and Google. I'm going to try and sneak one in which I think you can answer maybe. Do you think there is in fact anything that governments and countries the size of New Zealand can effectively do without some major consensus with other countries?
00:11:07
Speaker 4: I think the best way is for us to be informed about our own kids and putting protections in place for our children. And that's what this policy really is about. So if parents are informed, if schools have got clear requirements, you're keeping your own space as safe as you can. Those bigger questions in terms of the bigger platforms, that's Ruben Davidson, our spokesperson, and very shortly he'll be having some more to say in this space.
00:11:30
Speaker 2: Very shortly. Tomorrow?
00:11:33
Speaker 4: Probably will be, yeah.
00:11:34
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:11:35
Speaker 4: Well, the next day.
00:11:36
Speaker 2: Okay, that's all good.
00:11:38
Speaker 4: Not many sleeps.
00:11:39
Speaker 2: Thanks, Jenny. I appreciate your time. Okay, thanks very much. Cheers.
00:11:43
Speaker 4: Bye-bye. Bye.
00:11:46
Speaker 2: Thank you. Bye-bye. I'll keep that to myself, too.
00:11:47
Speaker 3: Just text me. That's Jenny Anderson, Labour's party education spokesperson. Look, there's nothing that's going to frighten the horses about this policy is that you can text your feedback on it. I mean, probably what the current government would say is, you know, we've got these schemes going. In fact, Labour started that scheme in 2021, the Active Me Care 2 scheme, where there's a subsidy to help with the costs of getting involved in sport. Because it is, it's a real thing. If you want to see the extremes, you want a child to get involved in rowing, check out what you've got to pay for that one. Not that this scheme's designed to help people get into rowing at several thousand bucks a year or whatever it is. But it is, I think probably the only argument anyone would have about it is what's already being done.
00:12:31
Speaker 2: But.
00:12:32
Speaker 3: You can add your thoughts on this on 0800 80 1080. You might not think phones are the devil. I think they are. Social media companies, Meta and Google, are in fact the devil. I've got very little time for them these days. But anyway, your thoughts on that. We will be back in just a moment because the National Party is announcing, and this is a big one, that it would make it a criminal offence to withhold information from police when a child aged 12 or under has been murdered or killed.
00:13:01
Speaker 2: And adults were present.
00:13:02
Speaker 3: So they're removing that right to silence, and we're going to dig into that with Chief Victims Advisor Ruth Money, who's with us in just a moment. Newstalk ZB, it's 22 and a half past three.
00:13:13
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to Newstalk ZB weekends from 3pm, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective Podcast from Newstalk ZB.
00:00:10
Speaker 2: Politics Central.
00:00:11
Speaker 3: So yes, the Labour Party has announced plans to get kids off screens and get them back to being kids with better access to after-school activities, placing healthier boundaries between children and their devices and boosting online safety measures for children.
00:00:24
Speaker 2: They say that the party says too many children.
00:00:27
Speaker 3: Too many childhoods are being spent on screens, with sport, hobbies and other activities being out of reach for many families. So they'll work with experts, educators and young people to strike the right balance. And Labour Party education spokesperson Ginny.
00:00:39
Speaker 2: Anderson joins me now. Good afternoon. Oh, hang on a minute. We just can't hear you there, Ginny. Are you there? I think we've got you. Say hello again.
00:00:49
Speaker 1: Hello.
00:00:49
Speaker 2: Have you got me now?
00:00:50
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:00:51
Speaker 2: Hello.
00:00:51
Speaker 4: Hi.
00:00:51
Speaker 1: Hi.
00:00:52
Speaker 4: It's there. Good. Excellent. I'm in my car, so hopefully that works. Okay.
00:00:56
Speaker 2: Are you moving? Do I need to worry about you driving?
00:00:58
Speaker 1: No, I'm not moving.
00:00:59
Speaker 4: I'm 100% stationary.
00:01:01
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:01:02
Speaker 3: Look, I imagine you've got plenty of consensus across this in the future from other parties, but how much of the policy is different to what the current government has done or was proposing?
00:01:15
Speaker 4: We're offering a healthy alternative to getting kids off screen, and that's sport. So it's one thing to tell your child, you know, you've had enough screen time. But often parents need an alternative to get them into sport. And so by removing those barriers to community sport, we think this provides a really good alternative.
00:01:32
Speaker 3: Hey, by the way, I assume that you'll support the under-16 social media bill that was introduced in August. Is that along the lines of, whoa, is there something about that you'd change?
00:01:44
Speaker 4: We've said that we would support that, and we've got more policy coming shortly on that as well.
00:01:48
Speaker 1: OK.
00:01:49
Speaker 3: Also, the current government, Erica Stanford, has proposed banning screens in early childhood education or restricting their use in primary schools. I think your policy, is that proposing school-based policies rather than a national sort of approach?
00:02:05
Speaker 4: There's some existing guidelines that are from experts about what the good use is. We want to update those guidelines. and have requirements on boards of trustees. So each school would set that out clearly, and we want to make sure that there's consistency there, but it also works for that school.
00:02:25
Speaker 2: Is that a problem in a way?
00:02:26
Speaker 3: Because there are some schools who are going to be really good at dealing with this, and you've got to be honest, there were some schools who were not so flash.
00:02:34
Speaker 4: Well, there's already clear requirements through what boards of trustees are required to do. So with the Ministry of Education to make sure that schools are putting in clear requirements, they're communicating those to the parents and the community, and that they are in place. And they would stipulate what the amount of screen time is and what kind of safety protections on screen use are in place as well for children.
00:02:56
Speaker 3: You've got the Active Me Kia 2 programme. That was started under you guys, I think, in 2021 and extended by the current government last year. So is there something new about this, or is this just saying we're going to continue with something that's already out there?
00:03:15
Speaker 4: So that funding runs out, and we would continue that funding by providing an additional $ 3 million.
00:03:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another $ 4 million for after-schools.
00:03:23
Speaker 4: And it's been good.
00:03:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, sorry, you can talk about that if you like. Sorry, sorry.
00:03:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been great. So over 10,000 kids have benefited from that, and we want to make sure it's available. It pays for things like boots for soccer or subs. It's $ 300 for over a two-year period to give parents who can't afford to get their kids to sport a bit of assistance. And in cost of living pressures, we know that there are some really hard decisions being made in family budgets. So we would hate kids to miss out because the price of food and et cetera has increased.
00:03:54
Speaker 3: That extra $ 4 million for after-school sport and activities, is that an additional thing?
00:04:00
Speaker 4: Yes, that is an additional thing. So there's some great local providers, lots in the hut. We've been out here to announce today. So that's more money for community-based organisations to be able to make after-school sport available. And they're not only good for kids, but parents get outside too on the sidelines and get to join in. So in general, I think we all grew up playing sport and most families think we could do with a bit more of that being available.
00:04:24
Speaker 2: What's the total cost of what you've announced today?
00:04:28
Speaker 4: It's $ 7 million and that's per year over four years.
00:04:32
Speaker 2: Well, that's not going to frighten the horses too much considering some of the costs we see.
00:04:36
Speaker 4: It's going to go a long way though. I agree, but it's not excessive, but we think that's a good amount to extend what's there already. But it's also not just saying we're going to say, get off your screen. We're giving kids something else to do.
00:04:51
Speaker 3: How big a challenge, I think this is more related to, this question is more related to the whole screen time thing. How big a challenge is it And is it going to be to get parents on board? Because I've had that discussion in our house about my children who we don't want to have social media, and yet they use that line. Sometimes they're not telling the truth, of course, about, oh, my friends have all got it.
00:05:13
Speaker 2: I'm being left out.
00:05:13
Speaker 3: But there are some parents who are far more casual about this stuff. So how do we get parents on board with this stuff?
00:05:21
Speaker 4: Well, I think schools having to have clear requirements on what screen use is at school, that provides a really good opportunity for parents, if they want to, to say, hey, these are the limits that school are placing. Let's have a conversation about what might work in our own house. And if your family is like mine, then those conversations are pretty frequent. So having some guardrails in place and parents being able to look at what the school set up as a starting point could provide a really helpful conversation starter on, on how you get more healthy screen use at home.
00:05:52
Speaker 3: Is there, I mean, how easy is it to measure and to create a target? How do you measure the target and how do we know that, you know, how do we, how soon would we know that this is working?
00:06:04
Speaker 4: Well, we want more kids out there and active. So I think by the uptake of more kids out and engaging in community sport, that's a good starter. But I think the Minister of Education will be able to report back and say if these have been implemented and the types of outcomes they're seeing and hopefully getting more kids engaging in a healthy way in community sport is generally a good thing to be achieving.
00:06:24
Speaker 3: Hey, you know, the biggest thing is, I mean, I don't think there'd be anyone in the political spectrum who'd disagree with this, but the biggest problem, I would argue, is... social media companies themselves. We've got Meta, Google, we've had those multi-billion dollar lawsuits they've settled. What thoughts have you got around what we can do to deal with the elephant in the room, really, isn't it?
00:06:49
Speaker 4: Yes, and we've got more policy coming on that shortly, so we'll have more to say soon.
00:06:53
Speaker 2: How soon?
00:06:56
Speaker 4: Pretty soon.
00:07:00
Speaker 2: Pretty soon.
00:07:01
Speaker 1: Very soon.
00:07:01
Speaker 2: I guess... You know, between now and the election could be pretty soon. Sorry.
00:07:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we know that it works. It's almost, it's two sides of the same coin. So it's important to have all the positive things in place. But yes, we'll have more policy coming out very shortly on the age and how that's being used.
00:07:22
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:07:24
Speaker 3: Are there particular platforms where, How do you identify which platforms are okay and which ones aren't? Because we can name the obvious ones, the Snapchats, the Instagram, Facebook. YouTube starts getting more problematic because there's a lot of educational stuff on there. What's the approach you take to identifying the troublesome platforms?
00:07:48
Speaker 4: There's two really useful tools that parents should be aware of. And one is the screening tool. So you can apply that to your phone. It's a good one to be able to screen out things that you would search, for example, on Google that are not appropriate. And there's also some really good digital guidance on place. So part of this announcement is enabling what tools are already available to ensure that kids are safe online and giving parents greater access to understand how they can put those into place.
00:08:15
Speaker 2: What's your view?
00:08:16
Speaker 3: I mean, it's difficult to ask this question separately, you know, your role as a mum is also as a politician, but what's your view on when kids should get their first cell phone?
00:08:27
Speaker 4: It's really tough because some parents, of course, with work and demands, you want to know if the kid's safe on the bus coming home and things like that. So, you know, that is a choice for that family for what works. My personal approach is I've tried to delay as long as possible. So the longer you can stretch it out, the better.
00:08:46
Speaker 2: How long did you stretch it for? You don't have to tell me, but.
00:08:48
Speaker 4: You know. Twelve. Twelve I managed to get to. And even then they have... very limited use so that's no data and limited screening and I've also connected them to my phone so you can limit what apps they have access to and how many hours a day.
00:09:07
Speaker 3: Obviously it's election season and everyone wants to differentiate themselves but I would imagine with the I can't imagine there'd be a hell of a lot of opposition to any of these ideas because I mean national hate kids being on their phones I would imagine the Greens do and and I don't know about the other lot, I don't act in New Zealand First, I would assume so, you'd imagine you'd get a fair bit of cross-party support with this, wouldn't you?
00:09:31
Speaker 4: You do, and I think generally people want to put kids first, so we want to be working collectively with schools and with families to make sure there's good advice, that people are following the right guidance, and if people, if parents particularly, are wanting more help, that should be made more readily available. It's often hard to start that conversation once it's The genie's out of the box. If kids have got really unlimited screen time in your house, how do you claw that back? That's a constant one I get asked about. So we think by having those clear requirements set by our school boards, that provides you know parents a good starting place to have a conversation as to what they want in their own homes.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: Okay just for people who are you know still swinging around with their votes what is the thing about this policy that you would say is different to what other parties might be wanting to put in place or have put in place?
00:10:19
Speaker 4: Giving kids access to sport, so removing those barriers to doing a healthy alternative. So it's all real well to say, you know, no screens or limit screens, but giving parents and kids access to good community sport. We all grow up playing sport. We know the benefits of what that teaches kids and that it's healthy, good for them to play together and to learn about being in a team, turning up, discipline. So we want all of those things being made available to kids growing up in New Zealand now.
00:10:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:10:46
Speaker 3: Now, I know you mentioned you've got this policy about what we do about Meta and Google. I'm going to try and sneak one in which I think you can answer maybe. Do you think there is in fact anything that governments and countries the size of New Zealand can effectively do without some major consensus with other countries?
00:11:07
Speaker 4: I think the best way is for us to be informed about our own kids and putting protections in place for our children. And that's what this policy really is about. So if parents are informed, if schools have got clear requirements, you're keeping your own space as safe as you can. Those bigger questions in terms of the bigger platforms, that's Ruben Davidson, our spokesperson, and very shortly he'll be having some more to say in this space.
00:11:30
Speaker 2: Very shortly. Tomorrow?
00:11:33
Speaker 4: Probably will be, yeah.
00:11:34
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:11:35
Speaker 4: Well, the next day.
00:11:36
Speaker 2: Okay, that's all good.
00:11:38
Speaker 4: Not many sleeps.
00:11:39
Speaker 2: Thanks, Jenny. I appreciate your time. Okay, thanks very much. Cheers.
00:11:43
Speaker 4: Bye-bye. Bye.
00:11:46
Speaker 2: Thank you. Bye-bye. I'll keep that to myself, too.
00:11:47
Speaker 3: Just text me. That's Jenny Anderson, Labour's party education spokesperson. Look, there's nothing that's going to frighten the horses about this policy is that you can text your feedback on it. I mean, probably what the current government would say is, you know, we've got these schemes going. In fact, Labour started that scheme in 2021, the Active Me Care 2 scheme, where there's a subsidy to help with the costs of getting involved in sport. Because it is, it's a real thing. If you want to see the extremes, you want a child to get involved in rowing, check out what you've got to pay for that one. Not that this scheme's designed to help people get into rowing at several thousand bucks a year or whatever it is. But it is, I think probably the only argument anyone would have about it is what's already being done.
00:12:31
Speaker 2: But.
00:12:32
Speaker 3: You can add your thoughts on this on 0800 80 1080. You might not think phones are the devil. I think they are. Social media companies, Meta and Google, are in fact the devil. I've got very little time for them these days. But anyway, your thoughts on that. We will be back in just a moment because the National Party is announcing, and this is a big one, that it would make it a criminal offence to withhold information from police when a child aged 12 or under has been murdered or killed.
00:13:01
Speaker 2: And adults were present.
00:13:02
Speaker 3: So they're removing that right to silence, and we're going to dig into that with Chief Victims Advisor Ruth Money, who's with us in just a moment. Newstalk ZB, it's 22 and a half past three.
00:13:13
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to Newstalk ZB weekends from 3pm, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
