Source Material #427 - Bruce Wayne Fugitive - Part 3

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Good cooks around with here you will Slade and Philly
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take time down here to dissect the story.
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A sub material fat time.
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All right, here we go. So Part three, we're going
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to divide this up a little bit here because this is,
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like I said, a lot of epilogue, but we're going
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to touch on a few different characters and storylines and
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wrap them up. So we'll start with Detective Comics number
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seven seventy three, seven seventy four, and seven to seventy five.
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The title of this story is Atonement, and it's a
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three part story that runs through these issues and Detective
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Comics seven seventy three through seven seventy five. Bruce Wayne,
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newly cleared of Vesper Fairchild's murder, returns home determined to
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overturn Sasha Bordeaux conviction, only to learn she has seemingly
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died in prison after a brutal beating. Refusing to believe it,
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Batman uncovers a deeper conspiracy that leads him to checkmate
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a covert organization that has secretly taken Sasha and offers
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her a new identity and purpose. As Batman wages a
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one man assault against their operations to find her Sasha
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is revealed to be alive but transformed, ultimately confronting Bruce
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over the betrayal that led her to imprisonment and the
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emotional toll of his manipulation. Though Bruce admits his role
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and his feelings, Sausa rejects reconciliation, choosing her own path
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with Checkmate and leaving Batman to face the personal consequences
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of his actions. So we're dealing with Sasha and her
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basically getting drafted.
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I just not thought of this. How do you convict
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somebody for aiding and a betting a murder when you
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don't have a conviction for that murder?
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Do not know that? Well, then he had to have
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been convicted. I do not remember him going to trial, though,
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I remember him going to like.
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No, like Black Eates the world's stupidest fucking correctional facility.
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Yeah, it's like chicken wire.
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It's a jail and a prison, and it's got men
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and women in it. Yeah. I don't think he didn't
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last long in prison. He got like a fight and
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was like a mad here, right, gonna I'm gonna get
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found out that I'm Batman's i gotta get out of here,
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like him, breaking out of prison made sense to me,
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but like I said, he yeah, if I remember correctly,
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because I argued about this in the last podcast that
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we did that they were holding him without bail at
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Blackgate because Blackgate also holds pre trial prisoners, which isn't
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a real thing, and people were like, soop, it's just
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a comic book. But no, it's dumb and it doesn't
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make sense. So he broke out of Blackgate. He was
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technically still in jail because remember jail is non convicted people,
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people back on appeal from prison, people sentenced to under
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a year. So he escapes from jail and then leaves
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her fucking hanging, like them charging her with aiding and
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a betting because they've charged Like, I'm just thinking about
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this in terms of how the law works. I don't
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think they could charge her because they don't have a
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canction on him. They can't prove that he murdered this woman.
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They have enough of a charging. I also argued they don't.
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But I don't want to get into the weeds in
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this and get out my little you know, I told
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Erica before the show tonight, I saw TikTok about how
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there's a movement now to get rid of college as
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a prerequisite to take exams for professional professions. So like,
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you wouldn't have to graduate law school to take the bar.
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You could just sign up and pay the money and
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study and take the bar now you're a lawyer. There's
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there's like a mass movement now to basically do away
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with college that it isn't necessary for a lot of things.
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But that's a conversation for another day. So I said,
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if I could just study and take the bar, I
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absolutely would in the next twenty to thirty years that
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I may or may not be alive. I would love
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to be a lawyer and possibly work my way to judge.
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I think, why are you looking at me like that?
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I'm just thinking of what artificial intelligence is going to
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do to that whole field.
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Yeah, well that's where that whole line of logic came from.
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That due to AI, college will become necessary and people
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will start to change things to where you can get
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to the gateway for professions by just taking tests, right,
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because you can learn the stuff on your own if
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you really need to anyway. So yeah, I would absolutely
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hit the bar and try to be a lawyer. I
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actually think I could do it. My point is I'm
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just thinking about, like he sent the legal process of
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how this whole book operated, where they had charging documents
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on him based on you're holding a dead body, you're clearly.
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The yeah, because it was a little suss to begin with, right,
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But that's why I think it's just like, do they
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then have enough evidence to charge her with aiding in
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a bedding when they don't really have a conviction for
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murder just yet? Right?
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They have a charge, Dude, We charge people all the time.
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You can get charged for all kinds of stuff. Whether
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or not it holds up in or even like holds
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up against in a preliminary hearing is subject to question.
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So like, there's a whole legal process that it like
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there's a whole thing where where Daniels is like, there's
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an there's a whole lost art to charging somebody and
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making sure you have evidence that's gonna survive discovery that's
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gonna survive a preliminary hearing that even makes it to
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a jury trial. And we don't do it because we
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don't really do a good job of collecting evidence. We
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do a great job of beating the fuck out of
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people and throwing them in jail in trumping up charges.
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But I'll tell you I worked, Like I said, I've
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worked in a jail where guys came in and oh yeah,
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they were charged with everything under the fucking the sun.
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And then I would look at their charges because it's
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public domain months later and like everything was like thrown out,
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thrown out, thrown out, thrown out. D Yeah, Like you
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come into jail Trump with a dozen charges, you'll leave
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with maybe one if that I see. I've seen entire
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hole cases fucking thrown out. Wow, because you don't have it,
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because everything is evident if you don't have enough evidence
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to support it, but just throws it out.
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It's one thing that I was kind of like looking
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forward to when we were going into this part of
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the story, was we're going to get I was all excited.
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I'm like, we're going to get the court proceedings, Like
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I was expecting this like a law and order show. Okay,
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they've arrested the guy. I'm waiting for the court case
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to happen. And we do not get that at all.
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We don't get an issue of legal scholars. No, And
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I think they know that that's probably a weakness. Plus
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they have all these other parts of the story they
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have to tell you.
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There's a lot of like, I don't know who's reading
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Batman in two thousand and two.
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But gotta be.
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But I doubt it was people really interested in the
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intricacies of legal the legal system.
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Wow, but there's books that do that.
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Though. As to my point, they may have been able
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to charge her, but the story is she gets convicted
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and goes away for life, because that would never happen.
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First of all, I don't think they could get a
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conviction in real life. I'm going around in away from
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your actual question here. They need her to be functionally
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for the story. They need her to be in prison
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because they need her to for drama purposes. They need
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her to feel like I was abandoned by Bruce after everything,
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and then she reaffirms it. And then they wanted to
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do this thing with check Me because they couldn't just
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let the woman out of prison. She has to go
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become a spy. I just want to talk about their
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talk in the park because to me, that's like the
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best part of this entire book. I'll be honest with Jesse.
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Read through this entire trade. My favorite part is the
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conversation they have in the park.
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Yeah, I was actually just finding that issue because that
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conversation that they have is very important because she points
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out that Bruce kind of manipulated her into becoming part
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of basically her Yeah, great, I'm his bodyguard. But then
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he purposely allowed her to see the Batman costume so
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she could join him, right, but as Batman.
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When she it's like she threw it was like she
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threw a wedding ring at him. It was like, I
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didn't want to know your identity. I didn't want this life.
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You just you manipulated me into it, and I assumed
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you'd protect me, right, and then when it was convenient
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for you, you threw me to the fucking walls. It was
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not like you broke me out of prison. Yeah, I
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completely saw her point of view.
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Yeah, I'm looking through some of the panels here. She
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like straight up punches him in the face. She is
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mad about it, and she tells him I never wanted
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your secrets, right.
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I never. That's like she throws the ring back at him,
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like I never wanted your secret. Look what it cost me.
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Look what's happened to me because you gave me a
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thing I didn't want in the first place. And it's
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funny because the one good thing about these books se
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clearly is not the legal stuff. But the one good
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thing about the book is it really does interrogate what
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it means to know Batman. Yeah, yeah, let's look at
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everybody that's part of the bad family. He shows up
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to a circus, there's an accident, he adopts Dick, and
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then it's like, I'm gonna make you my sidekick, and
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I'm gonna give you a boy's power fantasy, but I'll
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protect you. And for the most part, nothing bad really
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happens to Robin, short of every once in a while
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you take a beating, But think about that, Like you
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as a kid, You're like, you're like, oh my god,
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this rich, powerful man's gonna make me his superhero sidekick.
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Who says no to this? Right?
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Right?
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And then the whole split with Batman and Dick is
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Dick is like, I don't always agree with what you're doing,
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and You're like, if I don't agree with you, well
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maybe I just go be my own person. I think
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he becomes a cop at some point, kind of leaning
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into the I don't always want to be Yeah, I
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don't always want to be night Wing.
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Yeah he's a dick. He is a cop throughout this.
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We're gonna have the blood Haven Police Department. Yeah, yeah,
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he's And then.
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The tragedy of Jason Todd, It's like, I'm gonna be
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the same exact thing that this kid is trying to
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steal tires off my batmobile and he gets a blown
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up with a joker.
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Yeah, beaten first.
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And Barbara gets involved with batman, gets raped and shot
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by the joker. Gordon gets shot. I don't think anything
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bad really happened to Tim Drake. But Tim Drake's already
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like in the Dick camp of I'm not enthusiastic about
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how he's.
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Yeah, he is not as close you would think as
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other Robins were. For sure, he very logical.
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That's the point I'm saying. It's just like none of
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these people like he gets some hits. I don't want
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to sound like Jason and the Peter Pan argument, but
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there is a bit of like grooming going on of
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like you're getting these people at an impressionable age and
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you're like, come with me to this fairy land where
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where the rules don't matter, and we go out at
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night and it's and we're powerful and we can affect change,
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And isn't this great? And like before, the kid like
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has enough maturity to really make that decision. They're in
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a they're they're in a pig hostage costume running across
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rooftops at night. By the way, and have you seen
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that costume. I'm gonna wear all like gray and blue
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and black and everything and like blend into the shadows
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and then I'm gonnadress you up like a fucking.
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Target, right right, everyone's made.
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That joke, but I so so Sasha Bordeaux Sasha Bordo's
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line to Batman about I didn't ask for this. You
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kind of foisted it on me, and I adapted as
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best I could and did nothing but suffer for it.
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You right, I mean powerful stuff.
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And Batman did this, he did this on purpose. There,
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I'll read this little bit of dialogues. And then I
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went through your luggage and found that compartment and your tools. Oh,
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I thought I was so clever, like the world's greatest
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detective would make a mistake like that, Like you didn't
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want me to find them? Tell me I'm wrong, And
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Bruce says.
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Nothing, Well, think about Bruce, I can't be close to
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anybody unless you're you're a costume superhero. Like. That's the
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big takeaway from all of this is I'm so malformed
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of a personality. I have such issues with intimacy and
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relationship building that the only relationships I can have are
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as vigilantes and fucked up. Thing to say about that character.
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Right, And he even admits here that it was about
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controlling her too. Yeah, he said, Yeah, I had to
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control you, is what he says.
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Yep. So, yeah, it's a clear PTSD symptom where you're
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it's it's hyper vigilance. It's I have to control the
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environment and the peace people around me because I don't
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want to be further injured.
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Right, is so Sasha has come along from Sasha mccotpants
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whatever you called her last time.
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I have not called her Sasha bedroom eyes. Once I
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took this seriously, cut damn it? All right?
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Good deal? All right? Well, then our next issue is
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a real quick one, and I don't think we have
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too much here to talk about. But I'll read the
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summary and Batman Gotham Night's number thirty two, twenty four
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to seven is the name of the story. Bruce Wayne
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resumes his public life after the fugitive ordeal, throwing himself
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into a relentless hour by hour schedule that re establishes
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his role as Gotham's civic backbone, reassuring the Wayne Enterprises board,
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supporting employees with personal generosity, investing in community focused development,
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visiting Lucius Fox's family, and funding law enforcement initiatives and
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Blood Haven, while quietly demonstrating the ripple effect of Batman's
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influence on everyday lives from reformed criminals the citizens who
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feel safer simply because Batman's out there. As the day
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turns the night, Bruce becomes Batman, whose presence alone disrupts crime,
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saves lives, mentors allies like Jim Tim Drake, aids the GCPD,
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and even maintains a ritualistic connection with two Face playing
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some chess before continuing his patrol into the early morning hours.
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By dawn, with Gotham momentarily at peace, Bruce Wayne returns
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to the manor to rest, completing a full cycle that
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underscores his dual identity as both cities public benefactor and
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it's unseen guardian, operating tirelessly around the clock. So yeah, real,
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simple issue, just kind of showing you Batman's back, Bruce
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Wayne's back, Batman never left, Bruce Wayne back, so life
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and Gotham's back to normal. My other note was Tim
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Drake like fighting the Nazis, which was pretty funny, lays
278
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them all out and then spray paints losers all over him.
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It's good stuff.
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But anyway, nothing much to say there. You got anything
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that you wanted to say?
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Well, like to me if I'm making the movie. The
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first movie is Nightfall, The second movie is No Man's Land,
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The third movie is this It's it's Murderer and Murder
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and Fugitive could be one movie, gotch I end the
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movie with that scene in the park and then everything
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else is a montage. The narration above. It is like
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when Batman and Bruce Wayne learned they can't be one
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without the other and that the world is best served
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with both of them doing the best they can, and
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that's it. That's the end of the movie. That would
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be the end.
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Well. In Batman six oh six and six oh seven,
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we get death Wish for two parts one and two.
295
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Uh put skim skims Kims.
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David Kane set to testify about Vesper Fairchild's murder Batman
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anticipates an assassination attempt and tracks a missing hitman dead
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Shot to infiltrate security and attacks during Kine's transfer, detonating
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explosives and sending guards plummeting from a bridge. Batman manages
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to save both Kane and a guard, but Kane initially
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embraces death, forcing Batman to carry him to safety while
302
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vade dead shots relentless pursuit through Gotham. Their escape leads
303
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to a final confrontation after a chaotic firefight with gun
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runners or Caine, spurred by memories of his daughter Cassandra,
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chooses to fight back, shooting dead Shot and surviving the attempt.
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On his life.
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Though now seen as a victim rather than a culprit,
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Kane refuses to expose who hired him, allowing the larger
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conspiracy against Bruce Wayne to remain intact. As Batman reflects
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on Caine's choice to live and the consequences that follow,
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we kind of catch up with David Kine here, and
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he definitely has a death wish, like he doesn't care
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to live. And finally Bruce confronts him and says, look,
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I'm trying to save your life, and he's like, there's
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no life here worth saving, and Bruce is like, you've
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00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:50.919
got a daughter. You could do better here. Bud David Kane,
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who is Batgirl's father, their relationship not the greatest, and
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we want to see as we get into the last
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issue that that's going to come to the final resolution
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of this whole story and this trade Cain. It feels
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00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.480
there's nothing else to live for, and Batman's trying to
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bring him from back from the brink dead Shots showing
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up here. When dead Shot first shows up, I didn't
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know that was him. I should have figured it out.
325
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.599
He had these like a little wrist guns. I saw
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it when I saw him in costume. I was like, Okay, yeah,
327
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that's definitely dead Shot. I was able to figure that out,
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But yeah, this is dead Shot shows up and he's
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there to kill Cain. But I think one of the
330
00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:35.119
funniest things that happens in this book is where Batman
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has Cain and they're going to that he decides, well,
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we're going to go through the basement of the next
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building and get into the sewers and get the hell
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out of here. And he blows a hole and there's
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like three gun runners sitting around a table with guns
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all around him, and it was a complete accident, and
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so he ends up in a fight with them, and
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then of course dead Shot catches up, and then Cain
339
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and dead Shot have their Cain could have sat there
340
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and took a bullet right to the head, but he decides,
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like said, he's he's seeing he's seeing his daughter. He's
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starting to realize she is something worth living for. And
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he fights back and shoots dead Shot square in the chest,
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right in the target. It's so funny because right at
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the beginning of the issue he says, you wear a
346
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freaking target on your chest. It's like you're an idiot.
347
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But then at the end he shoots dead Shot. Kane
348
00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:21.039
shoots a dead shot right in the chest, right in
349
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that target. But anyway, go ahead, man.
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00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:26.599
I think about the silliness of comic book characters, where
351
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artists and can people conceptualize these characters like this is
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funny books for kids. We have to make them lively.
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00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:35.000
So of course we're gonna have a guy who looks
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like a penguin. You have a guy who's a clown,
355
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:39.279
a guy who's the Briddler, and he has question marks
356
00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:42.559
all over him, and people dreading this in any way seriously, Like,
357
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let's have the guy called dead shot walk around with
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a fucking along the nose, don't you think? Oh yeah?
359
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.720
But other than that, I think once the mystery was resolved,
360
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in once the emotional conflict was resolved, I lost interest
361
00:18:57.720 --> 00:18:58.440
in this one. Yeah.
362
00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.559
This is very dedicatives of the first trade we read,
363
00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:07.079
where there probably five or six issues. Really didn't need
364
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added on as.
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An editor because it relates to the story. And you said,
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like a lot of this is epilogue. Here's the thing.
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00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.759
This is an ongoing comic. This isn't a book. This
368
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is a graphic novel. This ends after Sasha Bordeaux walks
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away from Bruce, right, and they do the montage of
370
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him reclaiming his Bruce Wayne identity. The book just ends there.
371
00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:33.039
That's where the story ends. You don't need any of
372
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.799
this stuff, however, that's not what this is. This isn't
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a graphic novel. It's trade paperback that collects an ongoing story.
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So for me, if you're an editor like, well, this relates,
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I'll put it in there, right, And if you're editing
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these books that are monthly, you're like, absolutely, you gotta
377
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.000
keep the story going, what are the crumbs? Can we
378
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:54.200
blow up into another twenty two page issue? Right?
379
00:19:54.680 --> 00:20:00.359
This definitely fits more than the last issues of the
380
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previous graph or trade.
381
00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:05.839
So here's the thing. Calling the Bruce Wayne Murderer is
382
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:09.400
a great story. How about just Bruce Wayne Murderer Part
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00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:13.559
one in part two? Right, if you're not gonna put
384
00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:16.279
the whole thing, like you could see in the graphics
385
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:20.200
behind us, this was the fugitive storyline, so I think
386
00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:21.680
that was also part of it where the line of
387
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.400
demarcation was that clearly at some point they changed the
388
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:28.599
graphic from murderer to fugitive. I think if I'm the editor,
389
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.400
I honestly would have just called the whole thing Bruce
390
00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:34.839
Wayne murderer and split in its volume one and it's
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00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:38.160
volume two, and I'm okay with where they ended it
392
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:41.160
if you don't use the words murderer and fugitive. Because
393
00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.559
at the end of the book they're like, we are
394
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.359
going to solve this mystery, like he has told them
395
00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:53.519
to fuck off. The emotional conflict is Bruce Wayne and
396
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:57.160
Dick fighting in the back cave, and then the resolution
397
00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:01.839
is we won't leave Mary and Marian Pippen to die
398
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:03.240
at the hands of the arc. We're going to go
399
00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:08.440
after them. It's that it's I hear, I understand that
400
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.079
Bruce that Batman doesn't want us involved, but fuck him.
401
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:14.799
The right thing to do is to clear Bruce Wayne's name.
402
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:19.519
So that's what we're gonna do. And that little bit
403
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:22.279
of like, oh god, he really didn't do it. We
404
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.359
found out that because if you remember, the last trade
405
00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:26.759
ends with they figured out someone was breaking into the
406
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:31.559
bat Cave. Yeah, and so that's actually, in retrospect, that's
407
00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:33.720
actually a perfect place to end the story if you
408
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.720
don't break these up into murderer and fugitive. Right. The
409
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.240
problem wasn't like the emotional and narrative beat to the story.
410
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:43.200
The problem was the titles.
411
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:45.200
Pretty much well rolling right into the final issue here,
412
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:49.039
which is Batgirl number thirty three, Father's Day. Cassandra Caine
413
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:51.480
is summoned by Batman to assist briefly on a case
414
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:54.400
where she proves her precision and power by incapacitating a
415
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:57.960
dangerous meta human, but is quickly dismissed until she independently
416
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:01.799
intervenes and Batman pursuit of a suspect who mentions a
417
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:05.720
mysterious figure named Alpha, and this Alpha is known only
418
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:10.440
to her father, David Kane. Shaken, Cassie turns to Oracle,
419
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:13.359
who helps her infiltrate Blackgate Prison under the guise of
420
00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:16.279
a reporter to confront him face to face with the
421
00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:19.160
man who raised her as a weapon. Cassie is overwhelmed
422
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:22.119
by memories of her childhood and lashes out, attacking him,
423
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:25.960
ultimately threatening to kill him if he takes another life.
424
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:29.319
Despite her anger, she pauses long enough to ask a
425
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:33.039
deeply personal question which came up earlier that day, what's
426
00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:37.039
her birthday, which David answers, revealing a rare human connection
427
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:41.559
between the two. Cassandra returns to the bat Cave, expecting
428
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.640
reprimand buttons because she was always supposed to go in there.
429
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:47.759
An Oracle is like, he'll talk to you, and she
430
00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:49.559
was all she had to do is ask a question,
431
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:52.240
and she couldn't get through the question, and as she
432
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.000
about as try to ask it a second time, she
433
00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:59.279
just decides to fly through the glass and attack him instead.
434
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:01.480
So yeah, she goes back to the batcave and she's
435
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:03.759
waiting for Batman to be like, what the hell were
436
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.559
you doing? And she was pleasantly surprised when Batman says, no,
437
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:10.920
it's okay, I understand. Forget about it, and he offers
438
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.160
her a gift, and he reframes the moment as her birthday.
439
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.599
It's the day that Cassie decided to become Batgirl, and
440
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:23.240
it's a day worth recognizing. And that is where we end.
441
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:25.920
Bruce Wayne Fugitive.
442
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.920
I have a major problem with the trade paperbacks cover.
443
00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:30.920
Okay, look at that.
444
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.720
Let's talk about this for a second. The implication is, like,
445
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:37.240
it's like the End of the Dark Night, where like
446
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:39.359
Batman's on the run from the cops because they think
447
00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:41.960
that Batman murdered. I think it's Harvey Dent.
448
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:44.839
I see where you're going here.
449
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:48.920
So you would think just based on like the cover
450
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:54.720
of Batman Murderer is Bruce Wayne in the shadows and
451
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:57.039
he's in pursuit and it's a really cool looking cover.
452
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:00.720
Look at this bullshit here.
453
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.920
Yeah, makes you if somebody knows Bruce Wayne's Batman.
454
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:07.880
That's one implication. Have about the other one is that
455
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.559
the cops are after Batman somehow.
456
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.240
Right, why would they be after Batman?
457
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.279
And here's the thing, They're never after Batman. They're barely
458
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:21.480
after Bruce by this point, that's true. Do you see
459
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:24.559
what I'm trying to tell you, Jesse, Like my problem
460
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.240
with this book, in this whole story is a lot
461
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:33.559
of what made it interesting was abandoned early on in
462
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.079
the story, and there was a lot of filler like
463
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.400
Pee King Duc Batman, and a lot of this and
464
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:44.039
the stuff with Kane like the last thing I'm gonna say,
465
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:48.599
and then let you close out the show. This both,
466
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:54.960
I think shows the problems of an ongoing comic going
467
00:24:55.119 --> 00:25:00.519
family of comics. Yeah, is you have to stretch things
468
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.920
out and there and it ends up lacking narrative cohesion,
469
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:09.160
and then when you gather them all up for one story,
470
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:14.240
it's there are things that should have been followed up on.
471
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:16.200
There are threads that are just kind of left dangling
472
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:19.400
out there that aren't really dealt with. So if you
473
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:22.400
pitch me an idea of we're gonna do like a
474
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:27.119
year long story where Bruce Wayne is convicted as a
475
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.000
frame for murdering Best for Fairchild, and it's like a
476
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.160
giant mystery as to who did it, and there's gonna
477
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.279
be a lot of like bred herrings and subterfuge, and
478
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.839
like the bat Family's not gonna know if he did it,
479
00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:40.920
and Batman's not gonna tell him anything because he can't
480
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:43.240
because if he talks too much, he doesn't know who
481
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:46.200
he can trust. Maybe somebody from the bat family framed him.
482
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:49.200
Who knows. So, like, that's the crux of this thing.
483
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:52.559
That's a great story that should have been a graphic novel,
484
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:57.599
not this year long collection of a dozen different titles.
485
00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:01.599
Trying to keep this beach ball in the air. Yeah,
486
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:05.599
I think a second pass and keep it tightly wound
487
00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:08.960
and very isolated from the actual ongoing comic books and
488
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:11.680
just make it one cohesive story. I think there was
489
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:16.720
a lot here. I think it suffers from over exposure. Yeah,
490
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:18.759
but you can't get out of it because it's an
491
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:20.200
ongoing comic book series.
492
00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:24.279
Right, dude. I think again, this is the early two thousands,
493
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:28.079
were just coming out of the nineties here, My goodness.
494
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:30.640
If there was one thing that I remember the nineties for,
495
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:33.400
and I think it was the one thing that broke
496
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.519
your was it you or your dad from collecting comics?
497
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.519
And that was the Yes, Yeah, it was the multi
498
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.680
title crossover, where in order to read one story you had.
499
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:45.680
To have multiple covers.
500
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:51.680
By the way, yeah, he didn't like variant covers, but yeah,
501
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:55.359
you had to purchase if you wanted to follow this story.
502
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:57.920
The low puzzle pieces at the top, like that, this
503
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:01.079
is Bruce Wayne, fugitive Bruce Wayne or whatever.
504
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.960
I think about, like Acts of Vengeance, Actavengines didn't even
505
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:07.240
have a central title, right, like Secret Wars or Secret
506
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:12.079
Wars two or Inferno or I can't even think of
507
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:13.920
what the other big crossovers were at the time.
508
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.039
Inferno was definitely over X Men, X Factor, Excaliburate.
509
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:19.839
I didn't have a central title, no, but the.
510
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:22.920
Other Secret Wars War two, Yeah, that definitely did Crisis
511
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:25.279
on Infinite Earth's I touched other things, but it definitely
512
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:28.359
had a core title Civil War Civil War yep.
513
00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:32.279
So at the very least, if you didn't want to, theoretically,
514
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:36.799
you could have just read the individual core title of
515
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:39.920
whatever the major of the event title and gotten just
516
00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:43.680
enough of a gist that you could get through the story.
517
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:46.440
If you wanted to be insane person and buy every
518
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:49.839
single comic. What a scam. If you could just buy
519
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.599
every single comic that had in a little corner whatever
520
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.480
the stupid title was, you could, but you didn't have
521
00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:57.519
to and if you just wanted to, like I just
522
00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:02.039
want to read Spider Man, Iron Man and Black Widow
523
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:04.880
and I'm not going to read anything else, you could
524
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.839
still do that. You didn't necessarily need to read every
525
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:11.480
single thing associated with the event. And when they made
526
00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:14.119
it to where you kind of had to, that's when
527
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:15.920
my father was like, I'm not falling for your fucking
528
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:18.680
scam anymore, right right, and just take your variant covers
529
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:19.599
and shove them up your.
530
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:22.440
Ass and believe it or not. You can see on
531
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:24.400
the covers here if you look at the top right,
532
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:28.119
each of the top right if it was part of
533
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:31.599
Bruce Wayne fugitive and possibly murderer, I don't know, but
534
00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:36.480
they have a puzzle piece. If you collected all the issues,
535
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:38.400
I don't think you could detach the puzzle piece. But
536
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:41.680
if you collected all the issues with all the puzzle
537
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:46.240
pieces together, that show you Luther are those puzzle pieces
538
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:49.079
constructed together that are on the top of these issues.
539
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.359
So that's the big gimmick of some sort that was
540
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:54.759
I think that's actually pretty cool because you finally get
541
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:57.960
the big person who's behind everything, but you still you
542
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:01.480
don't get much resolution to it anyway. You hear, Oh yeah, Luther,
543
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:04.519
did it all right? Let's move on. But I asked
544
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:07.039
for myself as far as like, did I enjoy this?
545
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:10.359
I did enjoy the bit of mystery behind it, aside
546
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:12.799
from its shortcomings and all the I think some of
547
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:15.920
the strongest stuff me personally, I feel like happened in
548
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.319
this volume than it did in the first volume. I
549
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.519
think the standout obviously in our first volume that we
550
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:26.680
discussed is Batman versus Dick Grayson, and that was a
551
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:31.359
great moment where these two had come to blows over
552
00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:36.079
how Bruce was handling things. And then now I think
553
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:39.960
that the I shouldn't even say this because again this
554
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:43.519
was eighteen issues, but man, did it wrap up pretty quickly?
555
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:45.559
Did Bruce Wayne figure out his shit?
556
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:46.359
And two issues?
557
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:47.839
He figured it out pretty quickly.
558
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:50.640
Definitely tell like this is written for an audience that
559
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.720
likes the punchy stuff oh yeah, and is not really
560
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:55.200
interested in emotional beats.
561
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:58.240
I think as time goes on again this is the
562
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:00.440
early two thousands, As we move our way into like
563
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.920
the twenty tens and stuff, people start to realize Tom
564
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:07.880
King's want to come along and give us PTSD flash
565
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:09.559
at some point and We're going to have a big
566
00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:14.799
discussion about that. But the things are getting there so anyway,
567
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:15.880
But I enjoyed myself.
568
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.279
I'm not unhappy that we did this.
569
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:19.200
Yeah, this is something that I would have never read
570
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.240
on my own, so I'm glad I have the opportunity
571
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:22.160
to do so and discussion.
572
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:23.920
At no point did I throw the book.
573
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:27.799
That's good. That's always nameless.
574
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:33.640
That's it's not worth the nameless. We're fine, all right,
575
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:34.359
Well there it is.
576
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:36.599
That's our discussion. Man, Let's go in and get into
577
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:38.440
plugs here. What do you got going on over there?
578
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:42.119
Well, it's a source material live after all, So this
579
00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:43.920
is These are going to be live plugs. We are
580
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:47.880
recording this on March tway ninth tomorrow. Myself and Robert
581
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.680
and Jason presumably are going to review ready or not
582
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:54.000
to here? I commedisawt today? It was fine? Fine?
583
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:56.440
Did mourn Hill show up? Is it all?
584
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:08.680
I got that? Reference? Hey? Thursday, myself and Shay Tate
585
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:12.400
are gonna do a Kevin Klein live performance trio, The
586
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:14.960
Pirates of Penzance Lovely, which is about the life of
587
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:19.759
Cole Porter and a prairie home companion. Next week is Easter.
588
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:22.240
You and I will be back a week from tonight.
589
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:25.920
We're gonna look at Happy season one and two. I
590
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.720
have finished season one. I gotta start season two. Season
591
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:30.640
one more or less the book with a lot of
592
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:34.319
stuff added because it's television. Apparently season two was just
593
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:36.680
the dim doing their own shit, them trying to like
594
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:40.200
keep this TV show on the air. Really, there is
595
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:43.359
no season three. Yeah, there is no season get it.
596
00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:46.440
The fucking one mini series have been done with it.
597
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:51.880
But whatever. Well, week from Monday, myself, Robert Alexis, and
598
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:55.400
then possibly Zach we'll be doing the Super Mario Brothers
599
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:59.960
Galaxy movie Universe called and then on Thursday the ninth,
600
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:05.400
myself and Robert will be reviewing the movie Bullwarth because
601
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:10.640
I want him to see Bulworth. That's interesting. Yeah, I
602
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:12.759
can't remember. He came in the wake of something else
603
00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:15.079
that we had done, and I might have even scheduled
604
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:16.799
it with somebody else, and then it was like, nope,
605
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:19.039
I don't want to record with anybody else, So Robert's
606
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:19.759
getting Bulwarth.
607
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:23.240
This is where Warren Baty becomes like a He's obviously
608
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:25.839
a politician, but he's also a rapper or something or
609
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:28.079
they try to do something with his image or my Yeah.
610
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:30.160
Yeah, it's like him and Halle Barry and I think
611
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:33.119
somebody else. And it's a weird movie. He directed it.
612
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:37.000
Okay, it is definitely weird. I think I've watched part
613
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:37.200
of it.
614
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:40.960
It's kind of up there with Bamboozled, with one of
615
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:42.880
those movies I saw when it came out and loved
616
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.599
it and never watched it again. Okay, So I have
617
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:47.759
this great affection for this movie that I saw like
618
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.759
once upon a time, and I want to rewatch it
619
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:52.759
all these years later and share it with a friend
620
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.359
that I think will truly appreciate black cinema the way
621
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:57.319
Robert Winfrey does.
622
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:01.799
He does and can't. You can't get him to stop
623
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:02.720
posting about it.
624
00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:04.960
Robert Winfree's two blocked too strong.
625
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:07.160
He's too legit to quit.
626
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:08.319
That's correct.
627
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:12.279
Please introduce him as too legit to quit.
628
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.200
So, yeah, that's what we're doing in the next few weeks.
629
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.400
All right, it sounds like a good time. Well, hey, yeah,
630
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:24.319
I should have took that time. Pull up my calendar.
631
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:26.640
But listen, ladies and gentlemen, right here on the Source
632
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:30.559
Material Comics podcast feed, you can hear me and Mark
633
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:33.680
radlic talk. I think we did. We just talked Cobra
634
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:38.160
Commander as when we're recording this January. Yeah, we we
635
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:40.759
just talked that and that was the first book of.
636
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:44.680
The Here our next social material recordings. It's gonna be
637
00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:47.319
another Hefty one. It's May there. We're gonna talk Incredible
638
00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:49.880
Hercules Volume one, Hefty.
639
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:56.119
Hefty cent Sack Tomorrow is a syndicated source material for Daredevil, Daredevil,
640
00:33:56.160 --> 00:34:00.720
Man Without Fear, and the Unspoken Issues podcast. Last time
641
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:04.240
we talked was last week where we talked about the
642
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:06.440
pole winner for ninety six number ones and that was
643
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:10.400
our February poll and that was Mister Miracle number one
644
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.400
from nineteen ninety six, February of ninety six. I me
645
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:17.440
and Evan recorded yesterday a little bit of the Snap
646
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:20.840
Material podcast where we talk Marvel Snap and we're going
647
00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:23.639
to record again here at some point here in the future.
648
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:26.360
So with that being said, that's all I got. Mark
649
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:28.239
rad let's take us out of here. Everybody, thanks for
650
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.599
joining us. That's Mark Radleich, I'm Jesse Starcher. Have a
651
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:33.039
good one. You'd well be safe, behave.
652
00:34:33.159 --> 00:34:36.199
Thanks for joining us. All of this would not be
653
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:39.320
possible without W two m net dot com, so make
654
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:42.519
sure to seek them out for more podcasts. If you
655
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:45.159
enjoyed what you heard today, please feel free to share,
656
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.320
and we look forward to entertaining you again.
657
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:47.599
Sim