ОТНОСТНО ТОЗИ ЕПИЗОД
This is AI x Multilateralism, a playlist of conversations at the UN Library & Archives Geneva where we’re joined by experts who help us unpack the many ideas and issues at the nexus of AI and international cooperation.
Should philanthropy be a part of the development and governance of AI? We’re exploring this question with Hubert Halopé and Giuseppe Ugazio, both part of the team at the Artificial Intelligence & Philanthropy Project at the University of Geneva. They explore:
- Why studying the links between AI and philanthropy matter.
- The findings in the project's open source book, The Routledge Handbook of Artificial Intelligence and Philanthropy, including how AI can be used within philanthropy itself, and how philanthropy can impact the inclusive and responsible development and use of AI.
- Why philanthropic organisations should play a key role in AI governance and in the ethical use of AI, and
- How philanthropy can be present in multilateral AI governance mechanisms at the UN.
Resources:
- Learn about the Artificial Intelligence & Philanthropy Project at the University of Geneva.
- Read The Routledge Handbook of Artificial Intelligence and Philanthropy (open source version), edited by Giuseppe Ugazio & Milos Maricic.
- Read Giuseppe's recommended book, The Green and The Blue: Digital Politics in Philosophical Discussion, edited by Luciano Floridi and Jörg Noller.
Production:
Guests: Giuseppe Ugazio and Hubert Halopé
Host, production and editing: Natalie Alexander Julien
Podcast Music credits:
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/img/sequence
License code: NXAZUHU70MDKU4E9
#AI #ArtificialIntelligence #Philanthropy #Governance
В ТОЗИ ЕПИЗОД
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I'm Natalie Alexander. Welcome to AI and Multilateralism, a playlist at the
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UN Library and Archives Geneva,
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where we're joined by experts who help us unpack the many ideas at the nexus
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of AI and international cooperation.
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Should philanthropy be a part of the development and governance of AI?
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We're exploring this question with Hubert Halopé and Giuseppe Ugazio,
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both part of the team at the Artificial Intelligence and Philanthropy Project
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at the University of Geneva.
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We look at the potential for philanthropy to support more representative,
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inclusive AI, as well as how it can drive forward AI governance from something written to reality.
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Hubert and Giuseppe, thank you so much for joining us on the series.
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Thank you for having us. Thank you, Nathalie. It's great to be here with you today.
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What we're going to cover today, we haven't covered in this series before,
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and that's the link between AI and philanthropy. And you're both part of the
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team in what's called the Artificial Intelligence and Philanthropy Project at
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the University of Geneva.
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Giuseppe, firstly to you, why does this project exist? We started this project by necessity.
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We started this project as we needed to use AI in order to understand a bit
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better the philanthropic landscape here in Switzerland and abroad.
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We realized there is not really too much data, too much information around to
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understand, you know, where do philanthropic organizations work,
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in which areas, for which reasons, which operative modes.
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And so we started adopting AI tools to support what we could find about philanthropy.
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And then with this data, we had to make sense of it. And as you may know,
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here in Switzerland, we have over 17,000 philanthropic organizations.
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So for a couple of researchers to make sense of all these documents,
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it would take forever and probably be quite imprecise.
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And by the time it would be done, probably this would be already outdated.
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So we turned to a specific form of AI. So we will use natural language processing
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to extrapolate some of the key trends, some of the key words we could then make
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sense of in order to build a taxonomy of philanthropy in Switzerland.
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Where does the philanthropic center stand with respect to AI and then sort of
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build this research project that clearly looked at that.
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First of all, are philanthropic organizations ready to learn and embrace AI?
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And if so, or to which extent, that was one of the research questions.
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And the other one is AI is sort of this super fast moving technological revolution.
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What is philanthropy doing in order to sort of help society benefit from it,
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especially the ones who are least able to sort of influence the debate that
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maybe could benefit the most from, you know,
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these tools and have some benefits from this technology instead of having only
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the usual suspects, you know, the big debts,
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writing all the benefits and selling all the products and maybe excluding most of the people.
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And over to you now, Hubert, why do you think researching the links between
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AI and philanthropy matter?
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So, philanthropic organizations showcased in the past and showcased today their
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systems-oriented approach and mission-driven action when it comes to solving
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grand challenges like global healthcare, poverty,
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education, human rights abuse.
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So it has the right incentives, the know-how, the means to contribute to the
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grand challenges that AI brings with it and the risks.
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So we've seen with the exponential adoption also the increase in risks and negative impacts of AI.
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So, for example, disinformation, illegal content creation, the impact on jobs,
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biased HR, hiring, or even in financial practices when we talk about loans that
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are based on biased data sets potentially.
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Energy consumption by these energy hungry data centers, IP and data privacy risks, etc.
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So to tackle or bring a perspective and solutions there, but also on promoting
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the beneficial use of AI when it comes to using leveraging AI for good to deliver
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on the UN SDGs, for example,
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but also for philanthropic organizations with this mission-driven and long-term
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orientation to contribute to the governance of AI and filling representation gaps.
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So here, not only the global north-south divide, but also unheard interest groups, societal groups.
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And even if you look at economic stakeholders, supporting less resourceful and
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very small companies, which are often also put on the sidelines.
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So on the sidelines, observing this massive AI transformation,
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but lack the resources to be part of it.
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So various dimensional aspects.
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Definitely a lot of aspects and linkages there.
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A big part of the project that you're working on is the publishing of a book,
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which is open access, called The Ruchelidge Handbook of Artificial Intelligence
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and Philanthropy, edited by Yu Giuseppe as well as Milos Maricic.
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And this kind of looks at two big perspectives, how AI can be used within philanthropy itself,
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which you've briefly touched upon, but also how philanthropy can impact the
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inclusive and responsible development and use of AI, which you mentioned, Hubert.
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So to you Giuseppe, what do you think the book tells us about how the philanthropic
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sector is harnessing AI today?
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And what's the potential for it to support how money and resources are leveraged for actual impact?
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Well, the potential is for sure immense. You don't really know what actually
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AI tools, how are they quickly evolving and how they can support all the different
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philanthropic operations.
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So there is a lot of potential. Now in the book we start looking at a few cases
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where AI has been used by a philanthropic organization in a very successful
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way in order to become more efficient.
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They are actually using AI in order to find maybe players that are so involved
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in the work they're doing that they don't have the time to write an application.
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So it could improve the efficacy and diversification of organizations that can
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be supported by philanthropy.
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On another side, if we think of a more traditional organization,
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we have one of the chapters that looks at how AI has been used in order to build new metrics.
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So there is a very wide range of metrics that can be used of measures and so
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on that vary from one organization to the other.
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What we also did in terms of research, there's this organization in the Balkans
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that is also using AI to create a map, you know who's who and who is working
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in philanthropy for which reasons and so on in different parts of the world.
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So these are all different aspects that AI can support for philanthropic corporations.
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Maybe if you were to put it all under one umbrella, I think what AI can really
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help is to promote collaboration and the finding of each other,
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whether it's beneficiaries finding donors or whether it's donors identifying
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other donors who are working so they don't reinvent the wheel and so on.
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That's kind of what AI see as enabling in the philanthropic landscape.
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Really interesting. And seeing your examples in the book of how philanthropic
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organizations are harnessing AI to improve processes, to better find suitable
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donors, enhance metrics, and how they measure impact as well.
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I want to look now at the potential of philanthropy to support AI governance,
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which is a massive issue today.
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Talk about it regionally, nationally, and also at the international level how
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we can better govern AI, its development, its use, its deployment.
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And equal access around the world.
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And part of your research is in AI governance and philanthropy.
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You have an article out on the topic. And for those listeners who access our
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resources at the Library and Archives, we do have access to that article.
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So please reach out to us.
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And you argue in that article that philanthropic organizations can and should
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play a key role in AI governance. Hubert, to you, tell us why.
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That's, I think, a key question because AI, as we know and as we see,
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will increasingly become omnipresent.
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So in the way we work, we interact, we learn, and hence also bringing with that
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the positive and negative effects, but quite quickly on a societal and systemic level.
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And with that, we have this AI ecosystem that is quite complex and interconnected.
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Connected among very different stakeholders of society.
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And here, what we look at is how each of these stakeholders can leverage their unique strengths,
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because we see that they are quite complementary in making AI safer and also
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to make sure that AI works for us humans and not the other way around.
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And here, if we look, for example, at different stakeholders, so businesses as one.
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So where companies can act positively or promote responsible AI on the layer
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of product design, deployment, and how users access AI tools,
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they have the unique strengths and resourcefulness that they bring.
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If you look at governments, they can act in terms of policies that promote safe
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AI and safeguard citizens.
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And here their unique lever is enforceability. So thinking about hard governance or regulation.
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And if we look at academia, it's not only about producing scientific knowledge
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and disseminating it, but also educating possibly AI developers and users.
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And last but not least, philanthropic organizations, I think,
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has a unique niche to our responsibility or room to support projects for the
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public good and also act as a sounding board to call out on gaps,
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for example, governance or other negative effects that AI brings along and to
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add this to the public discourse and to make sure that the AI ecosystem is more inclusive.
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And we're seeing fantastic initiatives and, of course, more can be done,
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but it's to support or develop themselves open source models or alternatives.
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Valuation and audit tools, AI literacy programs out there, and also to fund
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international organizations like the UNESCO,
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who is doing very important work on soft governance, as we know,
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and also to make sure marginalized communities are included,
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have a voice and double clicking on that.
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That also like raw languages, that
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these are part of data sets that Dutch language models are trained on.
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And all this to say, to leverage really their collaborative approach that philanthropic
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organizations engage in, their mission-driven and oftentimes human-centered approach.
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And all this to have a more representative and fairer ecosystem to really set
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guardrails and to kind of have this balance of positive-negative effects was
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heavy on the positive side.
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And so what I hear is that philanthropy can play a very critical role in supporting
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the benefits of AI for more people.
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Giuseppe, I want to ask you now a bit more about AI governance because it is a prolific theme today.
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And in your work, in your research, you cite that the OECD counts,
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in fact, more than 1000 AI governance initiatives in terms of soft governance.
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And of course, there are also some hard governance initiatives for AI,
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but the majority today are soft governance.
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Where do you see the biggest opportunities for philanthropy to support AI governance
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in this very complex layered world of frameworks and principles?
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So really nice, really good point, really good question.
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So I think in general, what philanthropy could do is to try to,
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among these principles, among this quality noise, what is the real signal?
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What are the principles that are going to matter the most?
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And to come back to what Hubert was saying before, for example.
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What principles should we follow in order to make sure that the data industry
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trained models is actually representative of the majority of the population, not only a few groups.
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So that's, I think, the role that philanthropy should take.
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It's not really to produce new governance or to enter too much in ethical debates,
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but it's really to either fund or by themselves to try to identify the principles
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that have been put forward to identify the ones that are the most crucial ones.
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What are the ones that have actually the strongest impact on society and that
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we really need to put into place and to ensure that not only they're there.
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Right, because also in the cases of legislations or hard governance,
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in many cases, we do have the good, we know what the best practices are,
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but no one is wondering that these are followed or we know what the rules and
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laws are, but we have little organizations sort of ensuring that these are respected.
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So that is where philanthropy can have a really strong role.
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Blowing away a bit of smoke, you know, in this mirror game, it's too many principles
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that sometimes are just to distract from the real problems.
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Philanthropy should really have a role in supporting research and initiatives
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that can identify the most important principles and then identify the risks,
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the dangers of technology, of this technology,
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and then identify the principles that can mitigate this.
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And on the more positive angles, so identify which are the strongest opportunities
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and then support initiatives that promote these opportunities.
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Yeah. Hubert, do you agree with that? And are there examples of this happening at the moment?
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No, very good points, but maybe a few additions and maybe one with zooming out
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and zooming into academia.
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I know there has been some effort trying to make sense of all these principles
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out there in AI governance.
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And to digest them and cluster them in a few. And I recall one paper,
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it's a few years old, from Jobin et al.
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Going through almost like 80 or 90, I don't remember, principles and distilling
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like five core principles that have been mentioned in one way or the other.
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And these work then like transparency, justice and fairness,
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non-malfeasance, responsibility and privacy.
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But these also develop, I believe, over time, especially now with generative
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AI and other kind of next frontiers.
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But there's been important work there. But I go back to philanthropic organizations.
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So I fully agree with what Giuseppe laid out through funding or other mechanisms,
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indeed, to promote governance in one form or the other.
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And often here hard or soft law or even hybrid approach that many called on
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recently, indeed, to kind of make sense of the principles.
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And as Giuseppe said, to cut through
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the noise and to see which ones are impactful, ones are actionable.
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And what I see, however, like philanthropic organizations to play an active
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role in is to really call out on gaps, to be this sounding board for especially
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underrepresented groups, but also in general.
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And so to call on gaps, out gaps, but also to measure the impact,
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which I think is the biggest challenge in governance today is the implementation,
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the operationalization of these principles and governance mechanisms,
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and also to see and to measure are these working, yes or not?
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Can we observe the positive effects? I think that's the next challenge and we
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need philanthropic organizations among the many other actors to be active and responsible.
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Yeah, and you also mentioned briefly something I'd like to dive into a bit deeper,
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which is that many kind of actions on AI governance are lacking voices from
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the global majority, from communities really affected by AI systems.
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How can then philanthropic organizations help close these representation gaps.
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So there are various ways on how philanthropy can step in here.
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So if we take their unique capacities, their resources,
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their assets, their funding mechanisms, their expertise, the convening power,
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and also some more tech-savvy foundations to bring in tech expertise and actual tools.
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So to bring that to the AI stack, and with that I mean like the hardware,
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the infrastructure, the data sets, the model design, development,
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and the use of these models.
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And I think what we can see also is how philanthropic organizations can act
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in each of these layers to close the representation gap and to make AI safer
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and promote a responsible approach to AI and dominant use.
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So if we drill down into each of these layers, so for example,
00:17:14.895 --> 00:17:19.415
philanthropic organizations can fund initiatives to lower the barrier to access
00:17:19.415 --> 00:17:25.155
this expensive hardware infrastructure to have a more participatory and globally
00:17:25.155 --> 00:17:26.755
inclusive AI ecosystem.
00:17:26.755 --> 00:17:33.195
And if we go down to the data sets to support projects to create more representative
00:17:33.195 --> 00:17:38.355
data sets, I mentioned earlier to include especially raw languages and endangered
00:17:38.355 --> 00:17:39.635
languages and cultures.
00:17:40.075 --> 00:17:45.375
And here we have, to name one, the Wikimedia Foundation having one of the largest
00:17:45.375 --> 00:17:47.615
open data sets out there.
00:17:48.135 --> 00:17:53.835
And similarly, if you go on the model level to also promote projects or develop
00:17:53.835 --> 00:17:55.475
themselves open source alternatives.
00:17:56.016 --> 00:18:00.236
Which are often capital intensive with uncertain revenue streams.
00:18:01.256 --> 00:18:06.376
And then also if you look at the use, so also to promote or engage in advocacy
00:18:06.376 --> 00:18:12.356
campaigns to promote the beneficial use of AI, for example, water scarcity or human rights abuse.
00:18:12.496 --> 00:18:14.816
So how can AI kind of help there be leveraged there?
00:18:15.096 --> 00:18:20.936
And also to bring attention to governance gaps, put it in the public discourse,
00:18:21.276 --> 00:18:26.656
to call out on representation gaps and make governance more actionable,
00:18:27.076 --> 00:18:34.896
so to avoid the talk-no-walk approach and to be the one keeping everybody on track or accountable.
00:18:35.616 --> 00:18:41.256
And all this to say to avoid that major governments, big corporations are the
00:18:41.256 --> 00:18:44.536
only ones, because they're very important, but they shouldn't be the only ones
00:18:44.536 --> 00:18:48.676
to decide how AI is designed, developed, and regulated,
00:18:49.096 --> 00:18:54.036
but they have a more participatory and indeed an ecosystem, AI ecosystem.
00:18:54.816 --> 00:18:59.356
Thanks. And thanks also for sharing those examples of how it's happening in practice at the moment.
00:18:59.636 --> 00:19:05.176
I also want to look at maybe some of the risks of philanthropic funds because
00:19:05.176 --> 00:19:09.296
we've seen these major philanthropic movements like effective altruism pouring
00:19:09.296 --> 00:19:14.516
a lot of money into AI research in Silicon Valley, often kind of looking at capabilities,
00:19:15.056 --> 00:19:18.956
maybe not looking so much at safety or global equity or responsible development.
00:19:19.156 --> 00:19:21.996
So I want to know your opinions there. Maybe to you, Gillespie,
00:19:22.196 --> 00:19:26.636
first. What do you see as the risks when philanthropy actually funds AI development?
00:19:27.345 --> 00:19:30.505
I don't think it's specific to AI development.
00:19:30.785 --> 00:19:34.685
It's like the same risk that we would see when philanthropy engages in most
00:19:34.685 --> 00:19:37.285
of its activities and supporting initiatives.
00:19:37.545 --> 00:19:41.705
The fact that it's private capital, there is no democratic control,
00:19:41.705 --> 00:19:45.685
so to say, over this private capital that is pouring into different initiatives.
00:19:45.885 --> 00:19:50.265
It could be in education, right? A certain educational viewpoint could be supported.
00:19:50.585 --> 00:19:57.065
In Brazil, for example, there is a large foundation that is supporting a private education movement.
00:19:57.545 --> 00:20:02.145
No one can sort of limit what a private can do with their capital supporting
00:20:02.145 --> 00:20:06.145
different initiatives as long as it's disrespecting the laws and governance
00:20:06.145 --> 00:20:08.685
principles that we alluded to before.
00:20:08.865 --> 00:20:14.165
So the risk is that we have a few decision makers that identify what they believe
00:20:14.165 --> 00:20:17.245
to be a good solution and they try to promote it.
00:20:17.625 --> 00:20:22.685
The risk is that if it's not the right solution, then it could cause some damage,
00:20:22.685 --> 00:20:27.185
but that's a bit up to also both the beneficiaries, the state,
00:20:27.685 --> 00:20:33.945
and the other privates to monitor how this phenotropic capital is used and whether
00:20:33.945 --> 00:20:38.565
the initiative is supported if they are actually creating more damages than benefits.
00:20:39.129 --> 00:20:43.509
I think it's really easy at some points to jump to the negative conclusion and
00:20:43.509 --> 00:20:47.369
take the one bad example of philanthropy, sort of when it's wrong, so to say.
00:20:48.029 --> 00:20:51.889
But not to be forgotten that it happens many more times for four properties, right?
00:20:52.549 --> 00:20:56.969
There are so many negative externalities produced and most of the time,
00:20:57.029 --> 00:21:01.449
philanthropy is actually at least has a good intention to try to provide solutions.
00:21:01.869 --> 00:21:06.369
And we should actually promote philanthropy that takes risks and fails, right?
00:21:06.529 --> 00:21:11.589
What philanthropy is therefore to have money that is used to take calculated
00:21:11.589 --> 00:21:15.769
risks that could bring a very large reward if it works.
00:21:15.769 --> 00:21:19.509
And if it doesn't work, it was capital that others, like a state,
00:21:19.609 --> 00:21:24.649
for example, didn't have to spend in something that was maybe too risky for a state.
00:21:24.849 --> 00:21:29.249
And then if you think of a sort of a term from the business world,
00:21:29.429 --> 00:21:33.889
if you find the unicorn solution to have, but more responsible use of the eye.
00:21:34.549 --> 00:21:39.549
Thanks to philanthropy, that's a great opportunity to take. What do you think, Hubert?
00:21:39.966 --> 00:21:45.446
Yeah, I agree with Giuseppe and especially with the fact that it's not specific to AI necessarily.
00:21:46.086 --> 00:21:50.466
As indeed there have been situations in the past where philanthropic action
00:21:50.466 --> 00:21:55.966
was not focused on the root cause or core issue at hand, but rather on a symptom
00:21:55.966 --> 00:21:58.446
which then amplified negative externalities.
00:21:58.726 --> 00:22:03.086
And here I think it's indeed important to have to adopt like a strategic and
00:22:03.086 --> 00:22:08.446
outcome-based view and to also continuously, which is also a big challenge,
00:22:08.966 --> 00:22:14.006
I know, but like ideally to put effort behind measuring progress so as to guarantee
00:22:14.006 --> 00:22:19.966
the positive and hope for sustainable long-term effect of philanthropic action.
00:22:20.186 --> 00:22:24.786
And also with that, then to work with the public for which philanthropic action
00:22:24.786 --> 00:22:26.906
is meant for the public good.
00:22:27.106 --> 00:22:32.306
So to work with the public to recalibrate also work that maybe doesn't result
00:22:32.306 --> 00:22:34.646
in the effects outcome that was planned for.
00:22:35.106 --> 00:22:40.586
So I think there needs to be some dynamic and collaborative action or mechanisms there.
00:22:40.786 --> 00:22:46.266
And also, I think we alluded to it earlier on the fragmentation of the philanthropic
00:22:46.266 --> 00:22:52.686
landscape, which I think is another risk where work is redundant or duplicative
00:22:52.686 --> 00:22:55.586
at the expense of positive impact.
00:22:55.586 --> 00:23:01.126
And the last point, I think, which was implied, I think is also indeed something
00:23:01.126 --> 00:23:07.646
can be done or the incentives sometimes are unclear of philanthropic organizations.
00:23:08.486 --> 00:23:12.226
So I think there's also room for improvement to increase transparency and accountability
00:23:12.226 --> 00:23:17.706
mechanisms there so as to have kind of an orchestrated, coordinated approach
00:23:17.706 --> 00:23:20.186
that is outcome based and impact based.
00:23:20.908 --> 00:23:24.588
I want to now look at what all this means for multilateralism.
00:23:24.808 --> 00:23:28.048
We've mentioned a little bit about collectivity. In your research together,
00:23:28.048 --> 00:23:32.808
you look at also partnerships for how philanthropy can have an impact in AI
00:23:32.808 --> 00:23:33.948
development and governance.
00:23:34.328 --> 00:23:38.508
The UN General Assembly just last year established two kind of major mechanisms
00:23:38.508 --> 00:23:42.888
for how we work on AI collaboratively, the Global Dialogue on AI Governance,
00:23:42.928 --> 00:23:47.548
which will meet yearly, and also an independent international scientific panel on AI.
00:23:48.088 --> 00:23:53.168
What is your view? Should philanthropy be present in these multilateral mechanisms?
00:23:53.488 --> 00:23:55.828
And what is their role in bringing different partners together?
00:23:56.287 --> 00:23:59.887
Yeah, thanks. This is a great question. So I think it's particularly important
00:23:59.887 --> 00:24:04.667
that philanthropy has a voice also, especially philanthropy that has been engaging
00:24:04.667 --> 00:24:07.067
with the ethics and the responsible use of AI.
00:24:07.407 --> 00:24:13.567
The reason why this is so important is that when it comes to the digital world, AI, consequently,
00:24:14.007 --> 00:24:19.347
it's really hard to take the traditional logic of setting, you know, my state,
00:24:19.627 --> 00:24:23.387
my rules, my laws apply, you have to do, you know, you have to respect them
00:24:23.387 --> 00:24:27.087
because most of the times, you know, companies are an AI company or digital
00:24:27.087 --> 00:24:30.167
companies based on state X, but operating worldwide.
00:24:30.787 --> 00:24:33.907
So having international standards is super important.
00:24:34.527 --> 00:24:39.207
So I think at the multilateral level, hopefully with a strong UN presence,
00:24:39.727 --> 00:24:42.247
strong government participation is international based.
00:24:42.487 --> 00:24:45.687
There is a charter as we know, right?
00:24:46.007 --> 00:24:50.687
The UNESCO has also proposed principles for analytical AI and philanthropy is
00:24:50.687 --> 00:24:55.927
fundamental there, because the philanthropy is sort of bringing in the logic of the private sector,
00:24:56.147 --> 00:25:02.427
but a logic of the private sector that is keeping in mind, at least that's what the intention stated,
00:25:02.807 --> 00:25:04.067
keeping in mind, so the logic is
00:25:04.067 --> 00:25:06.607
a private sector, but keeping in mind the promotion of the public group.
00:25:06.747 --> 00:25:13.187
So they can really bring this unique voice and they can also take risk and say, as we mentioned before,
00:25:13.447 --> 00:25:17.207
when we are part of this debate and we recognize we should take this approach,
00:25:17.287 --> 00:25:22.147
then okay, we can provide funding to support sort of the implementation of these approaches.
00:25:22.407 --> 00:25:27.427
So I think it's really important to have gilatropia that is a multilateral table
00:25:27.427 --> 00:25:32.907
because of the unique perspective it brings and the unique opportunities of action it can support.
00:25:33.187 --> 00:25:37.287
I'll ask you the same, Hubert, and maybe also how you think kind of philanthropic
00:25:37.287 --> 00:25:40.887
data stuff that we don't necessarily see at the multilateral level,
00:25:41.027 --> 00:25:45.427
like on the ground information from societies can feed into multilateral work?
00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:49.500
I'm very happy to answer, if I may, just to your question before,
00:25:49.780 --> 00:25:54.380
because I think the Global Dialogue and Scientific Panel are indeed very important initiatives.
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:58.760
And I think also thriving to have a lot of representation, if I'm not mistaken,
00:25:58.820 --> 00:26:04.800
one of the few or first initiatives to allow for a representation of each UN
00:26:04.800 --> 00:26:07.060
member state, which I think is huge.
00:26:07.700 --> 00:26:11.780
So participation of philanthropy organizations, I think, are indeed twofold important.
00:26:11.780 --> 00:26:14.820
So one on the representation side, look at the civil society layer,
00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:15.900
and I agree with Giuseppe,
00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:20.300
to especially philanthropic organizations that have a track record of a positive
00:26:20.300 --> 00:26:24.180
impact or engagement on governance, for example,
00:26:24.980 --> 00:26:29.500
but also to bring philanthropic organizations on board to convince them that
00:26:29.500 --> 00:26:36.280
it's a cause worthwhile to invest in time, effort, and assets to promote good AI, responsible AI.
00:26:36.280 --> 00:26:43.360
And your question on how data and enabled insights can feed into multilateral work.
00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:49.120
So we published a few years ago a paper on how natural language processing NLP
00:26:49.120 --> 00:26:52.880
can be leveraged to not only track philanthropic activities,
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.540
we looked at Switzerland in particular,
00:26:54.760 --> 00:27:01.260
but also their connections to SDGs and also with that to uncover SDG-aligned
00:27:01.260 --> 00:27:03.800
partnerships to promote the impact.
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:08.500
What it helps to have a data-driven and AI-driven approach in philanthropic
00:27:08.500 --> 00:27:13.480
activity is also to avoid, indeed, the redundant duplicative work that is done
00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:15.560
at the expense of impact a lot.
00:27:16.020 --> 00:27:22.620
What it helps is to really leverage the strengths of every stakeholder through
00:27:22.620 --> 00:27:26.020
this more informed way to act and optimize for impact.
00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:29.740
This has been such a fascinating dive into philanthropy and AI.
00:27:30.300 --> 00:27:34.620
Giuseppe, one final question for you. How would you like to see philanthropy
00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:36.980
kind of supporting air development in the near future?
00:27:37.644 --> 00:27:41.564
What I would like to see is to really embrace this
00:27:41.564 --> 00:27:47.084
technology that is having an incredible impact in recent years and to let us
00:27:47.084 --> 00:27:52.304
slow down in thinking how to use it for what in novel fields but to really start
00:27:52.304 --> 00:27:57.924
a debate or to support the ongoing debates on how to use AI properly,
00:27:58.124 --> 00:28:02.044
how not to just use it because you can use it but to only use it for problems
00:28:02.044 --> 00:28:06.584
that are actually going to be strongly supported and complemented by AI.
00:28:06.944 --> 00:28:12.564
Also, keeping in mind all the secondary externalities that come from using AI,
00:28:12.704 --> 00:28:18.464
like incredible use of water and of electricity that's running AI includes.
00:28:18.664 --> 00:28:24.584
So what I would really hope to see philanthropy doing is championing the responsible
00:28:24.584 --> 00:28:30.664
use of AI in a way that it's going to be beneficial at most for society and
00:28:30.664 --> 00:28:33.864
limiting as much as possible the downsides of it.
00:28:33.984 --> 00:28:39.624
But if in five years we will look back and see for what are we using AI,
00:28:39.824 --> 00:28:43.504
how is it complementing our operations and for what we're not using and so on,
00:28:43.604 --> 00:28:49.184
if we manage to find that sweet spot where we are really integrating AI and
00:28:49.184 --> 00:28:52.604
helping us transition and work, for example, better together,
00:28:52.804 --> 00:28:58.664
as Huber said before, leveraging novel tools and the ability to digest incredible
00:28:58.664 --> 00:29:03.104
amount of data to work in synchrony among different philanthropic organizations
00:29:03.104 --> 00:29:07.284
or different organizations that can be philanthropy,
00:29:07.584 --> 00:29:10.924
can be UN agencies, can be privates, can be governments.
00:29:11.124 --> 00:29:17.044
If we were to manage to have a true systems approach to these big challenges
00:29:17.044 --> 00:29:19.784
we have, that will be a successful philanthropy.
00:29:19.964 --> 00:29:24.704
When we really have this sort of network perspective, this relations perspective
00:29:24.704 --> 00:29:29.284
where we're all working together in a collaborative fashion That would be a
00:29:29.284 --> 00:29:33.604
great success for philanthropy, having promoted the responsible use of AI.
00:29:34.104 --> 00:29:37.704
And what would be nice to see is that philanthropy managed to make all the actors
00:29:37.704 --> 00:29:42.204
benefiting or touched by AI collaborate instead of competing against each other.
00:29:42.731 --> 00:29:45.871
Yeah. Hubert, do you agree? I agree.
00:29:46.191 --> 00:29:52.331
And how I would see philanthropy fully integrated is also as an established sounding board.
00:29:52.331 --> 00:29:57.731
So that calls out on gaps, for example, governance, but also of unfair,
00:29:57.951 --> 00:30:03.511
of an unfair impact on certain groups of society that is maybe overseen by decision makers.
00:30:03.511 --> 00:30:10.011
For example, if AI has unproportionate, big impact on a certain job in society.
00:30:10.011 --> 00:30:15.891
Also philanthropy organizations that call for action and that are actively involved
00:30:15.891 --> 00:30:20.931
in initiatives and panels that tackle these big questions of AI governance and
00:30:20.931 --> 00:30:22.771
responsible design and use.
00:30:23.031 --> 00:30:27.131
But also to see a philanthropic organization as an independent voice that is
00:30:27.131 --> 00:30:30.551
also accountable for its very cause. It wants to contribute.
00:30:30.751 --> 00:30:37.911
So to have this end-to-end, a healthy interplay of these different actors. Really interesting.
00:30:38.531 --> 00:30:43.471
Normally we ask our guests also to recommend an open access resource for our listeners.
00:30:43.911 --> 00:30:48.731
Of course, the book we mentioned earlier that you published on the topic is
00:30:48.731 --> 00:30:51.111
a fantastic deep dive and is open access.
00:30:51.451 --> 00:30:53.891
Are there any other recommendations you'd like to share?
00:30:54.531 --> 00:30:59.011
Maybe on the more ethical side, I think there is a fantastic book called The
00:30:59.011 --> 00:31:03.411
Green and the Blue, Digital Politics in Philosophical Discussion by Luciano Floridi.
00:31:03.651 --> 00:31:09.211
It's a fascinating book, really how AI is changing the perspective of how we
00:31:09.211 --> 00:31:14.651
can and should interact and how we should interpret AI and how through this
00:31:14.651 --> 00:31:18.491
perspective, then we would find a better way of using the tool.
00:31:19.051 --> 00:31:22.631
Thank you so much for sharing. We'll make sure both books are in the show notes.
00:31:23.951 --> 00:31:29.591
Thank you so much for joining us for this podcast. Thank you for this wonderful
00:31:29.591 --> 00:31:31.471
opportunity. Thank you.