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Hello and welcome to the Exit, presented by Flippa, the number one platform to buy and sell online businesses.
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Flippa manages over a billion in deal value annually and combines expert buy and sell side advisory with its market leading valuation tool, deal room, off-market offering, market insights, and an AI-based deal-by-deal matching engine.
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Now for the Exit.
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The Exit is a 30-minute podcast featuring awesome entrepreneurs who have been there and they have done it.
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The Exit talks to operators who have bought and sold businesses of all different sizes.
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You learn how they did it, why they did it, and get exposure to the world of Exit.
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It's a world occupied by a small few, but accessible to many.
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On this episode of The Exit, I sit down with James Creech.
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And this is a really special episode for anybody out there that is a creator.
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And by creator, I mean someone that is creating content on a regular basis, whether it's YouTube or Instagram or Facebook or TikTok or any one of these social media platforms where you can build an audience.
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James walks us through his business that he exited a few years ago.
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And it is a really fantastic way of people to connect with brands.
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It's called Paladin, and they were acquired by Brandwatch in March of 2022.
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And what James walks through is the start and effective finish of Paladin from his three co-founders, the chapters they were in in their lives, when the transaction went through, how the process worked with using a banker and the negotiations, how they derived their valuation, and just so many great pieces of knowledge in this episode.
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But most of all, if you are a creator, it's important to know that what you're doing is a business.
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And James digs into that at the end of this episode.
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So stick around to the end because James is working on a really cool project called the Creator Economy Jobs.
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And this is like the first ever job board for content creators because they're hiring, you know, the people like Mr.
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Beast out there that are doing billions of dollars.
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They get billions of views.
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It's it's incredible the size of these businesses that are often underrepresented.
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And this is a really great opportunity for people to understand that space.
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And James is by far and away the most savvy person I've ever met in the creator economy.
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So it's really fun to sit down and talk through not only his business ventures and all the really cool things that he's building, but just understanding more about the creator economy.
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And before we started recording, we were talking about, you know, not only his success with Paladin, but you know, he's an advisor and a mentor to a lot of really great startups out there.
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So overall, just an incredible plethora of knowledge for everyone here.
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So sit back, relax, and listen to my episode here with James Creech, the founder of Creator Economy Jobs and the co-founder of Measure Studios.
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Right.
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I am here with James Creech, and he is the founder of Creator Economy Jobs as well as the co-founder of Measure Studios.
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How's it going, James?
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Good, Steve.
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How are you?
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Doing good, man.
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Doing good.
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I'm I'm I'm excited to really unpack your successful exit.
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This is in a in a space that I'm familiar with, and I'm I'm really interested to learn more about from you.
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But before we unpack your success, let's talk about your background.
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What got you into business and entrepreneurship?
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Yeah.
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That's a good question.
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Uh growing up, I didn't think of myself as an entrepreneur.
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And then yet when I started my first company, you know, in my mid-20s, uh, my parents were like, no, we're not surprised.
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This uh this totally makes sense for you.
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So, you know, I guess as a kid, um, the first thing that comes to mind is I would make these like silly movies with my friends.
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And uh we, it was kind of like pre-Youtube, TikTok, um, but we would make these like little videos and then um get people together to watch the the shorts and stuff that we made.
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Um, and then I went to college for um for business, essentially, studying film and and business and poli sci and uh fell into working at a startup, my senior year of college.
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So didn't think I was gonna go into entrepreneurship, but just fell in love with uh the early stage kind of adrenaline rush and after I graduated ended up deciding to stick around.
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So never looked back.
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Nice, very nice.
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Yeah, the working at a startup, especially as the you know, while you're in college, is such a great crash course on everything business, like all at once.
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It's like a fire hose, almost like an MBA, really quickly.
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Yeah, I think I learned more in that job than I did in four years of school.
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So um, you know, had a lot of great opportunities and programs, but you learned so much more just being in the mix and and doing things.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I always like to compare it to reading a book on how to surf versus surfing is very, very different.
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Jumping in and getting into it.
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So let's talk about the first success.
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You know, after you you were done with that startup, did you start your own?
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Did that succeed?
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How many ventures did it take to get to like a successful venture?
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Oh boy.
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I had a lot of side projects and uh and you know different things along the way, but Paladin is really the first business that we launched.
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So um I worked at two early stage companies uh for about two years each and learned a lot about how to run a business and what not to do, right?
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Which is sometimes just as equally important.
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And um then, you know, was working at this creator network, this kind of early influencer group called Bent Pixels, uh, and saw a need for technology in that space, right?
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It was still super early, and people were either doing things manually, right?
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Like trying to figure out how to find influencers, run campaigns, report on that activity.
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And we used to do it.
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It took us, you know, hours of screenshots and spreadsheets and emails.
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And so it was like, gosh, there's got to be a better way to do this.
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And so many other people were either banging their heads against that same wall or trying to find other tools they could stitch together to make something work.
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Uh, so that was the inspiration to launch our first company.
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Cool, very cool.
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And what year would this have been?
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Because I've I remember influencer marketing was like red hot for probably like 2013 to 2018 or 19.
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Yeah.
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So we started in 2016.
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Uh we officially launched the business, right?
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We'd kind of done some work to get organized before that.
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But um, yeah, it was still early days, right?
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I mean, arguably influencer marketing's still on a tear and a lot of room for growth.
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But um, this was certainly at a time when everyone was scratching their heads trying to figure it out.
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Yeah, and it's such a you're right, like it it was still very early days and it still is.
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And I love the example that people have been giving recently of the um the Kanye commercial where he's recording on his phone and sold like$20 million worth of products and it wasn't even a produced commercial.
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And people people just want to see others talk uh instead of like a highly produced show sometimes or highly produced ad, uh, which is really, really interesting how it's changed very quickly.
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Yeah.
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I mean, at the end of the day, people trust the folks that they follow.
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So they listen to their recommendations.
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And whether it's, you know, a very slick produced piece of content or just them speaking, you know, off the cuff, like that's what drives the the audience activity, right?
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It's it's because of that fandom and that engagement.
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Well said.
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So let's talk about the startup story.
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Did you have a co-founder?
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Did you raise money?
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How did that work?
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Yeah, I had two co-founders, um, Thomas, our COO, and Ole, our CTO.
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The three of us had worked together on various different, you know, ventures in the past, um, but you know, had very complimentary skill sets to try and figure this thing out together.
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And um, we bootstrapped the business.
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So uh when we were getting this thing off the ground, we were thinking about, you know, how do we make this happen?
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And uh I had been saving up kind of a down payment for a house, put all of that money into the company.
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Um, my co-founder Thomas had gotten engaged and his uh now wife uh very understandingly um took all the money they had saved for their wedding and put that towards the business and said, instead, you know, we're gonna have a small wedding and kind of delay the honeymoon, that kind of thing.
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So that was a big sacrifice.
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And then Ole is Norwegian, so he had uh been living in Norway and and they had just come out with the new Teslas, right?
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It was like the new car on the scene.
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He was so excited to have this electric vehicle and he uh had actually bought one uh a couple weeks earlier.
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Um, and when we decided, hey, we were gonna do this, he drove the car back to the dealership, returned it, and put all that money into the television.
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So all of us were like, we're all in from the get-go.
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Um, didn't raise outside capital, just you know, sold like crazy to get through the burn rate and figured it out as we went along.
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Nice, very nice.
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So, what were the first KPIs that you guys were tracking and what kind of stuck in terms of what defined success over the course of the business?
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Yeah.
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I mean, at the end of the day, what we did wasn't too complicated.
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We we built a great influencer marketing suite and then we sold and supported that.
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So um, you know, it was looking at uh customer acquisition and revenue, and then um retention of those customers and satisfaction.
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And then on the tech side, it was like just evaluating how quickly are we shipping new features and innovating and kind of sticking with the market.
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So um, you know, we were first-time founders and uh kind of figuring it out as we went along, but paid a lot of attention to revenue, customer talent, retention rates.
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Got it.
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Very cool.
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And kind of fast-forwarding a little bit, when we get to coming up to the exit, how big was the team and what scale were you guys at?
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Yeah, we were about 25 people.
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Um, and we had grown the business over six years.
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Uh and fortunately, I mean, kind of just lucky luckily around the timing of it all, um, as we discussed, influencer marketing was taking off, but we hit COVID and then the business just boomed, right?
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Accelerated because there's so much activity around, well, you know, there's not traditional TV and people can't go outside.
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And so um, brands that were already spending on influencer marketing doubled down.
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That was the best place to put their budgets.
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And a lot of brands who'd been on the fence and hadn't quite, you know, uh uh dove in yet said, okay, this is the wake-up call.
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Like we're finally going to give it a shot.
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So um we started doing a lot more work with brands and agencies and then had this inbound interest in the company.
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And we had kind of thought about that or evaluated it, you know, previously, but it never had felt like the right time.
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And then all of a sudden it was kind of like, okay, for various reasons for the company, this, you know, feels like the right strategic fit to explore it.
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And also for us personally, kind of the timing made sense.
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Um, so that's how we ended up kind of getting into the process.
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Nice.
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Very nice.
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00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.039
And let's start to unpack it a little bit.
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So the was it a customer, was it a partner, who approached to about the initial acquisition?
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Yeah.
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So we had some discussions, never with customers or partners.
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I suppose they were all other established players in the influencer marketing space, other technology companies, those that you know had a strategic interest in getting into influencer marketing.
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Um, so whether that was other players in social or digital and just saw that this was kind of the next boon that they needed to be a part of, that was kind of the folks who had reached out and we we said, okay, you know, let's let's see what this looks like.
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And then we hired a banker and ran a process.
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And so he had some relationships and we had some additional relationships.
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And the ultimate buyer ended up being Brandwatch, which was someone, you know, I met the founder and CEO, um Giles Palmer, uh, through that process.
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Um, and it just ended up being the best fit and the best kind of structure and deal for for everyone involved.
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Nice.
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And you you shopped it around, like you worked with a banker.
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So, how many different suitors were there out there that were talking to you?
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Um we had a list of probably close to a hundred and um maybe talk to 30 or 40 at least.
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Um, so had a number of conversations and then kind of quickly see, well, who's serious, you know, who do we feel excited about?
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Where there's kind of this shared vision and values.
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And so that kind of helped us pare it down to a smaller list where we could get, you know, serious and find out, you know, who is going to be the right long-term home.
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And I think a question that comes up a lot is around timing.
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And I'm curious to get your take.
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Like, why was it the right time for you guys to sell?
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And what kind of wisdom can you share for others about timing?
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So when I work with other entrepreneurs who are thinking about the same thing, I tell them there's there's two uh dimensions to this question.
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The first dimension is um what's right for the company.
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And so for us as a business, we had hit this inflection point.
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We knew great, like we can continue to lean in and and just reinvest back into the business.
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But at a certain point, our space is also crowded and competitive.
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It's very clear there's going to be more consolidation, which has played out now or the past couple of years.
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So we either need to go raise money to double down on this success and start buying up smaller competitors, um, or we need to find a strategic partner who shares our vision, right?
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And so the other dimension to this is the personal aspect.
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Um, like I mentioned, I had these two co-founders.
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Ole had had his third kid by the time we were getting to the stage and had shared with us, hey, you know, I love the business and passionate about working with you guys, but I really like doing early stage things, zero to one, right?
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Kind of like incubating and launching a new idea.
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Um, and so we were much more in growth mode, and that was a little less interesting.
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And we had like a VP of engineering who was running the day-to-day.
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Ole said, like, you know, I want to kind of take a step back and work on other things I'm excited about.
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Um, Thomas, similar story.
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He had his first child as we were um getting to this point, and he and I had been kicking around another idea, which became Measure Studio uh years later.
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But um he got really passionate about I've got this other concept, a thing that I want to focus on, and you know, my lifestyle is going to change becoming a parent.
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And so um with that, I think all of us realized like, okay, there's some personal motivations that if we found the right buyer and the deal terms were the, you know, a good fit, that we would want to uh take the win and like continue to build successes in these other areas that we're excited about.
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Um, so all of those things cumulatively came together, and we just got incredibly fortunate with the timing that um we were able to find someone who kind of really believed in what we were up to.
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Nice, very nice.
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And when it when it comes to valuation, you know, how did you guys approach it and how did the banker help you guys approach it with negotiations?
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And, you know, was it multiple on on trailing 12 months?
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How did how did you guys really approach it?
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Yeah.
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So uh, you know, the buy side always wants uh like a trailing 12 month um look back, and then the sell side will sometimes advocate for you know a forward-looking 12 months if they can justify, hey, we've got strong growth and we want to kind of use more of a forecast approach.
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Um but for us it was off of top line revenue.
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You know, they looked at a pro forma Ibita um as well.
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But, you know, as a tech business, it was much more on, you know, um, the top line potential for the business and then how you know how strong are these contracts and the retention of these customers and how sticky is the technology that you're building.
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:34.079
And fortunately, you know, all of that was sound and the thesis around buying the business worked out very well.
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It's it's performed very nicely as an asset for Brandwatch.
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Um, but yeah, in terms of the deal analysis and coming up with a valuation framework, it was always off the top line revenue.
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Nice.
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Yeah, top line.
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Definitely big win, big win doing it off the top line.
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I like that.
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I like that.
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So with uh with being prepared, it's kind of a good segue.
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Preparedness is is something that a lot of people talk about starting on day one.
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Some people were a bit surprised when they were approached by acquiring companies.
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And since you guys were working with, you know, someone to help you along the way, what can you share about how you guys got prepared and how other people can can prepare their business?
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Yeah.
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The first piece of advice is to just be very organized, right?
00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:24.079
You're going to get asked every possible question about your business, some things you've never thought about in your life.
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:35.119
Uh, and so just having really clear documentation around things from all of your contracts organized, your financials, all of your systems, your employment agreements with people over time.
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:37.519
A lot of that stuff is very difficult to recreate.
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:44.640
Fortunately, we were very organized, so a lot of that already existed, but you'll be surprised how easy it is for things to slip through the cracks.
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.480
So be organized is number one.
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:50.960
Um, number two, early on in the process, you're kind of in the dating phase.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.160
And so uh an acquirer wants to just get a sense for your business.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:55.519
Is it a strategic fit?
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:57.039
Do the financials make sense?
00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.680
You know, what's the what does a combination look like?
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:09.440
And so um they're gonna want to understand what's your go-to-market strategy and what's your, you know, what's the the headcount of the team and that that stuff look like.
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:13.359
So we had a corporate overview deck, we had a financial packet ready.
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:17.680
And then once you get into the LOI phase, you start to do the confirmatory diligence.
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:19.920
And I mean, then they turn over every stone.
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:30.480
So that's, you know, in the weeds on the legal and the tax and the finance stuff, but also, you know, understanding your operational processes and your sales motion, all that stuff.
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:35.359
So um the when it when you get to that stage, all you can do is be transparent, right?
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:45.599
Like give them all the reasons up front, you know, that they should um want to buy your business, but also the the potential red flags or areas of concern so that there's no surprises later on, right?
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:52.559
Just be very open and transparent about how the business is doing and and tackle all the questions head on.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.519
Nice.
00:19:53.839 --> 00:20:00.880
And when it came to picking the eventual uh acquire brand watch, you know, it sounds like it was a really good fit.
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:02.240
Was there a short list?
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:05.359
And did you guys kind of have a conversation about it as a team?
00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:07.759
And how did how did that work out eventually?
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:13.440
Was it was it one person on the team that kind of drove it home with Brandwatch, or how did that play out?
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:14.079
Yeah.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:14.720
Yeah.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:22.880
So um when we were running the process, we were talking to a number of folks and uh and had strong interest from several.
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:25.359
We ended up getting an offer from a different party.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:34.160
And I was leading the process, but you know, very much closely collaborating with my other partners on, you know, do how do we feel about the offer?
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:35.119
Is this the right partner?
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:36.960
And they were helping me kind of vet that out.
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:41.039
But we got an offer from a party and uh we're kind of starting to go down the road with them.
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:47.119
And Giles from Brandwatch circled back and said, Hey, you know, I know we talked a couple months ago and sorry, things got crazy.
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.039
You know, we were busy, I'm sure you were too.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:57.680
I now have some more time to kind of uh focus on this, but I can appreciate if you guys are, you know, uh busy it's been a minute.
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.240
So um I almost said no, to be honest.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:05.759
Like the process is exhausting and we were feeling pretty good about this other opportunity.
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:09.440
Um, but something deep down just said, you know, what's one more call?
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:15.599
So we hopped on the phone the next day and he brought his product and engineering people, and right away it was like fireworks, right?
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.319
They got excited, we got excited, they said, Hey, can we chat again tomorrow?
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:19.680
Can we chat again on Monday?
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:33.519
And um, very quickly that turned into them making an offer, uh, which we ended up feeling like, okay, well, not only was it better terms and a better fit, but we just got, you know, much more excited about that as the as the future home for Paladin.
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.240
So it almost didn't happen, but uh luckily it did because it ended up being the right choice.
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:39.680
Nice, nice.
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:44.559
So the the head count was about twenty five, he said, as as he scaled up.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.680
And what did what did that look like as the deal went through?
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:49.200
Did everybody go over?
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:53.759
Was there like an earnout period for the whole team?
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:55.920
How how how did that work out?
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:56.720
Yeah.
00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.839
So everyone was given the opportunity to to move over.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.119
And that was important to me, right?
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.400
Is like we had um worked together for a long time.
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:06.640
People were passionate about what we were building.
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:16.400
And I wanted any sort of acquisition that we did to be a good thing, not just for us as founders or shareholders, but also for our customers, for our team members.
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:24.079
And I would tell people when we were going through the process, um, you know, I'm not interested if you just want the team and you're gonna shut the tech down, right?
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:26.079
We very we care a lot about what we've built.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:28.240
We want our customers to continue to be supported.
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:29.279
That's important.
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:34.559
Um, similarly, I don't want to sell you this business if you're just interested in the tech and you're gonna lay everybody off, right?
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:36.480
Like that wasn't gonna work for us either.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:40.559
So we made that an important prerequisite to any conversation we were having.
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.359
And uh fortunately, that was a non-issue for Brandwatch.
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:45.680
They were excited about the platform, they wanted the whole team.
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:55.119
They, in fact, gave us additional budget to invest in what we were doing because they said what you have is great, and we're gonna, you know, plug that into a big sales org and rapidly commercialize it.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:00.480
But we also want you to have more resources to double down on marketing and and product development.
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:05.759
And so um that emphasized for us that this was uh the the right fit for us.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:15.279
Now, admittedly, when you build a startup, some people are startup people and they're like, okay, you know, this has been fun, but um, this is my stop on the train, right?
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:22.000
Like it's been awesome, but you know, I it's gonna evolve and I've kind of felt like I've played my part and I want to do other things.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:25.599
And so there were a couple cases of that, but we gave everyone the choice, right?
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:32.960
Like, do you want to come along for the next stage in the journey, or do you feel like, you know, you've done your piece and you're happy to uh to move on to the next thing?
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:34.319
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:45.359
Providing providing the choice because there's uh you mentioned it, but zero to one, zero to one people and one and beyond people are different, uh different breeds for sure.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:52.720
And uh there's nothing nothing wrong with either of them, but it's uh it's cool that you guys gave that choice for sure.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:54.319
Yeah, for sure.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:00.480
So that kind of takes us to the finale question of knowing what you know now, what would you tell James 10 years ago?
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.400
Oh boy.
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:07.279
Um I'm so glad I did it, but it's incredibly challenging, right?
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.319
Like being a first-time founder, you don't know what you don't know.
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:13.119
The emotional roller coaster is significant.
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:16.240
So the highs are incredibly high, but the lows are challenging.
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:23.680
And I'm blessed to have two awesome co-founders in addition to a team who supported us throughout the good and the bad times.
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:29.200
But um, you know, you have to know when to stick with it, and you have to know sometimes when an idea isn't working out.
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:34.319
There's been plenty of failed projects I've had along the way or other things where it just didn't work.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:40.640
Uh, and so part of this is just a journey of yourself as an entrepreneur, getting comfortable with what you can do.
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:47.599
And, you know, thankfully, my youthful naivete, I think, contributed in a large respect to like, hey, let's just jump in, we'll figure it out as we go along.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:52.240
Um, I have a different approach to building businesses now, though admittedly I'm not I'm not slopping.
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:58.319
So I think one of the hardest lessons for us to learn was uh go deep before you go wide, right?
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:02.079
It's so easy to get distracted and want to build a bunch of different features.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:10.400
But um the the key to success we found is just nailing something that you can be uniquely the best in the world at.
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:17.599
Uh and so, you know, rather than us trying to build three tools out of the gate, we should have built solved the biggest pain point.
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:26.240
And then once we've got customers and we've kind of gotten a good reputation for solving that problem, start to expand into adjacent categories.
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.880
Uh, but you know, trying to do too much all at once was was something we struggled with in the early days.
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:31.519
Nice.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:32.240
Well said.
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:34.000
Nail it before you scale it.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:34.720
I like it.
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:36.400
Uh choosing that one.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.839
That's really, really good piece of advice for everybody that's listening through.
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:43.519
So let's shift gears and talk about what you're working on now.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:44.079
Yeah.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.440
Uh so a few things.
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:50.400
Um, I do a good bit of advisory work helping founders navigate the MA process.
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:58.880
So after we sold Paladin, I wrote a little bit about it on LinkedIn, both the emotional journey that you go through, but also um just kind of this kind of stuff, right?
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:08.160
I love your mission of sharing these stories with other people because so often, you know, exiting a business is this mysterious thing of like, well, how do I get there?
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:09.039
How do I accomplish it?
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:20.400
And so I've been fortunate to help some friends and other founders um kind of go through the process, everything from finding the right buyer to, you know, making sure you're legally protected and you've structured the deal the right way.
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.279
But aside from that, um we're building Measure Studio.
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:33.839
So my co-founder Thomas and I from the Paladin Days are uh reprising our roles and building a social media analytics platform that uses computer vision to inform content strategy.
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:35.359
Uh, and that's a lot of fun.
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:40.559
And then I saw a need for a job board in our industry, the creator economy.
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:44.319
So I launched the first job board to connect creators and candidates.
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:52.000
And that's kind of a passion project where I used to get asked all the time, hey, you know, we're hiring, we need a head of marketing, we need salespeople, engineers, who do you know?
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.000
And I just make introductions, but now I have a platform where I can kind of scale that impact.
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:56.640
Cool.
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:57.279
Very cool.
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:08.960
Yeah, I think the the idea that a lot of more traditional business operators don't really view YouTube and things like that as businesses yet.
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:13.200
Um, and I think it that's changing pretty rapidly with Mr.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:21.519
Beast and some of these other people that are launching huge product lines and all of these actual products that they're selling to people that are doing billions of dollars.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:26.720
So I yeah, I think they're they're yeah, it's it's crazy how fast it's going.
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:38.160
And it's it's really cool that you're focused on that because providing help to these people where most people don't even really associate them as businesses is a really cool approach.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:38.960
I like that.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:39.839
I like that a lot.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:41.359
Well, nice.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.079
Yeah, where can people learn more about that?
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:44.880
Sure.
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.680
Uh the best place to connect with me is LinkedIn.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:53.839
So if you go search for James Greach, uh you'll find me and I share a lot more about what's going on in social media through my newsletter.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:57.440
Um, I write frequently on LinkedIn, you'll see stuff about creator economy jobs.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:02.079
If you want to check out what we're building at Measure Studio, check out Measure.studio.
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:07.759
Uh, if you're curious about creator economy jobs or looking for your next opportunity, go to creatoreconomy jobs.co.
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:09.920
We update the site daily with new opportunities.
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:15.680
We send out a weekly newsletter kind of telling people about cool new jobs and industry news and uh always happy to help.
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:16.319
Awesome.
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:16.799
Awesome.
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.119
Well, those are all the questions I have for you, James.
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:23.920
Wherever you guys are listening on iTunes or Spotify, the links that James mentioned will be in the show notes.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.920
But thanks so much for coming on and sharing your story.
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:26.720
Thanks for having me.
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:27.839
This was fun.
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:05.759
Hello and welcome to the Exit, presented by Flippa, the number one platform to buy and sell online businesses.
00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:20.320
Flippa manages over a billion in deal value annually and combines expert buy and sell side advisory with its market leading valuation tool, deal room, off-market offering, market insights, and an AI-based deal-by-deal matching engine.
00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:21.519
Now for the Exit.
00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:26.480
The Exit is a 30-minute podcast featuring awesome entrepreneurs who have been there and they have done it.
00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:31.120
The Exit talks to operators who have bought and sold businesses of all different sizes.
00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:35.359
You learn how they did it, why they did it, and get exposure to the world of Exit.
00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:39.600
It's a world occupied by a small few, but accessible to many.
00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:43.280
On this episode of The Exit, I sit down with James Creech.
00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:47.439
And this is a really special episode for anybody out there that is a creator.
00:00:47.600 --> 00:01:00.399
And by creator, I mean someone that is creating content on a regular basis, whether it's YouTube or Instagram or Facebook or TikTok or any one of these social media platforms where you can build an audience.
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:05.680
James walks us through his business that he exited a few years ago.
00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:09.680
And it is a really fantastic way of people to connect with brands.
00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:14.480
It's called Paladin, and they were acquired by Brandwatch in March of 2022.
00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:38.079
And what James walks through is the start and effective finish of Paladin from his three co-founders, the chapters they were in in their lives, when the transaction went through, how the process worked with using a banker and the negotiations, how they derived their valuation, and just so many great pieces of knowledge in this episode.
00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:44.480
But most of all, if you are a creator, it's important to know that what you're doing is a business.
00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:47.120
And James digs into that at the end of this episode.
00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:53.439
So stick around to the end because James is working on a really cool project called the Creator Economy Jobs.
00:01:53.680 --> 00:02:00.879
And this is like the first ever job board for content creators because they're hiring, you know, the people like Mr.
00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:03.840
Beast out there that are doing billions of dollars.
00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:05.280
They get billions of views.
00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:10.800
It's it's incredible the size of these businesses that are often underrepresented.
00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:15.599
And this is a really great opportunity for people to understand that space.
00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:21.840
And James is by far and away the most savvy person I've ever met in the creator economy.
00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:32.639
So it's really fun to sit down and talk through not only his business ventures and all the really cool things that he's building, but just understanding more about the creator economy.
00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:42.479
And before we started recording, we were talking about, you know, not only his success with Paladin, but you know, he's an advisor and a mentor to a lot of really great startups out there.
00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:46.960
So overall, just an incredible plethora of knowledge for everyone here.
00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:57.759
So sit back, relax, and listen to my episode here with James Creech, the founder of Creator Economy Jobs and the co-founder of Measure Studios.
00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:10.159
Right.
00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:19.199
I am here with James Creech, and he is the founder of Creator Economy Jobs as well as the co-founder of Measure Studios.
00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:20.560
How's it going, James?
00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:21.520
Good, Steve.
00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:22.319
How are you?
00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:23.520
Doing good, man.
00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:24.080
Doing good.
00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:27.120
I'm I'm I'm excited to really unpack your successful exit.
00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:33.520
This is in a in a space that I'm familiar with, and I'm I'm really interested to learn more about from you.
00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:37.680
But before we unpack your success, let's talk about your background.
00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:40.560
What got you into business and entrepreneurship?
00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:41.280
Yeah.
00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:42.479
That's a good question.
00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.199
Uh growing up, I didn't think of myself as an entrepreneur.
00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:51.919
And then yet when I started my first company, you know, in my mid-20s, uh, my parents were like, no, we're not surprised.
00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:53.520
This uh this totally makes sense for you.
00:03:53.680 --> 00:04:01.840
So, you know, I guess as a kid, um, the first thing that comes to mind is I would make these like silly movies with my friends.
00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:13.039
And uh we, it was kind of like pre-Youtube, TikTok, um, but we would make these like little videos and then um get people together to watch the the shorts and stuff that we made.
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:25.120
Um, and then I went to college for um for business, essentially, studying film and and business and poli sci and uh fell into working at a startup, my senior year of college.
00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:34.879
So didn't think I was gonna go into entrepreneurship, but just fell in love with uh the early stage kind of adrenaline rush and after I graduated ended up deciding to stick around.
00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:35.920
So never looked back.
00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:37.279
Nice, very nice.
00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:47.199
Yeah, the working at a startup, especially as the you know, while you're in college, is such a great crash course on everything business, like all at once.
00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:51.600
It's like a fire hose, almost like an MBA, really quickly.
00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:56.560
Yeah, I think I learned more in that job than I did in four years of school.
00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:04.879
So um, you know, had a lot of great opportunities and programs, but you learned so much more just being in the mix and and doing things.
00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:05.439
Yeah.
00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:05.759
Yeah.
00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:12.319
I always like to compare it to reading a book on how to surf versus surfing is very, very different.
00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:14.079
Jumping in and getting into it.
00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:17.040
So let's talk about the first success.
00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:21.839
You know, after you you were done with that startup, did you start your own?
00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:22.959
Did that succeed?
00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:26.240
How many ventures did it take to get to like a successful venture?
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:27.199
Oh boy.
00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:35.519
I had a lot of side projects and uh and you know different things along the way, but Paladin is really the first business that we launched.
00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:44.000
So um I worked at two early stage companies uh for about two years each and learned a lot about how to run a business and what not to do, right?
00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.240
Which is sometimes just as equally important.
00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:56.959
And um then, you know, was working at this creator network, this kind of early influencer group called Bent Pixels, uh, and saw a need for technology in that space, right?
00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:01.519
It was still super early, and people were either doing things manually, right?
00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:06.560
Like trying to figure out how to find influencers, run campaigns, report on that activity.
00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:07.680
And we used to do it.
00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:11.279
It took us, you know, hours of screenshots and spreadsheets and emails.
00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:13.600
And so it was like, gosh, there's got to be a better way to do this.
00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:20.240
And so many other people were either banging their heads against that same wall or trying to find other tools they could stitch together to make something work.
00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.120
Uh, so that was the inspiration to launch our first company.
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:24.639
Cool, very cool.
00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:27.360
And what year would this have been?
00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:37.040
Because I've I remember influencer marketing was like red hot for probably like 2013 to 2018 or 19.
00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:37.600
Yeah.
00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:39.279
So we started in 2016.
00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:41.120
Uh we officially launched the business, right?
00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.759
We'd kind of done some work to get organized before that.
00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:46.000
But um, yeah, it was still early days, right?
00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:49.920
I mean, arguably influencer marketing's still on a tear and a lot of room for growth.
00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:55.279
But um, this was certainly at a time when everyone was scratching their heads trying to figure it out.
00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:01.680
Yeah, and it's such a you're right, like it it was still very early days and it still is.
00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:15.439
And I love the example that people have been giving recently of the um the Kanye commercial where he's recording on his phone and sold like$20 million worth of products and it wasn't even a produced commercial.
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:28.079
And people people just want to see others talk uh instead of like a highly produced show sometimes or highly produced ad, uh, which is really, really interesting how it's changed very quickly.
00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:28.560
Yeah.
00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:32.319
I mean, at the end of the day, people trust the folks that they follow.
00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:34.079
So they listen to their recommendations.
00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:44.800
And whether it's, you know, a very slick produced piece of content or just them speaking, you know, off the cuff, like that's what drives the the audience activity, right?
00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:48.000
It's it's because of that fandom and that engagement.
00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:49.519
Well said.
00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:51.759
So let's talk about the startup story.
00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:52.800
Did you have a co-founder?
00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:53.920
Did you raise money?
00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:54.959
How did that work?
00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:59.600
Yeah, I had two co-founders, um, Thomas, our COO, and Ole, our CTO.
00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:08.560
The three of us had worked together on various different, you know, ventures in the past, um, but you know, had very complimentary skill sets to try and figure this thing out together.
00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.360
And um, we bootstrapped the business.
00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:18.720
So uh when we were getting this thing off the ground, we were thinking about, you know, how do we make this happen?
00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:23.920
And uh I had been saving up kind of a down payment for a house, put all of that money into the company.
00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:39.679
Um, my co-founder Thomas had gotten engaged and his uh now wife uh very understandingly um took all the money they had saved for their wedding and put that towards the business and said, instead, you know, we're gonna have a small wedding and kind of delay the honeymoon, that kind of thing.
00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:41.120
So that was a big sacrifice.
00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:48.399
And then Ole is Norwegian, so he had uh been living in Norway and and they had just come out with the new Teslas, right?
00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:50.639
It was like the new car on the scene.
00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:56.720
He was so excited to have this electric vehicle and he uh had actually bought one uh a couple weeks earlier.
00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:03.600
Um, and when we decided, hey, we were gonna do this, he drove the car back to the dealership, returned it, and put all that money into the television.
00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.159
So all of us were like, we're all in from the get-go.
00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:12.879
Um, didn't raise outside capital, just you know, sold like crazy to get through the burn rate and figured it out as we went along.
00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:14.480
Nice, very nice.
00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:22.960
So, what were the first KPIs that you guys were tracking and what kind of stuck in terms of what defined success over the course of the business?
00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:23.519
Yeah.
00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:26.720
I mean, at the end of the day, what we did wasn't too complicated.
00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:30.960
We we built a great influencer marketing suite and then we sold and supported that.
00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:41.039
So um, you know, it was looking at uh customer acquisition and revenue, and then um retention of those customers and satisfaction.
00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:47.279
And then on the tech side, it was like just evaluating how quickly are we shipping new features and innovating and kind of sticking with the market.
00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:58.960
So um, you know, we were first-time founders and uh kind of figuring it out as we went along, but paid a lot of attention to revenue, customer talent, retention rates.
00:09:59.279 --> 00:09:59.759
Got it.
00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:01.039
Very cool.
00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:11.759
And kind of fast-forwarding a little bit, when we get to coming up to the exit, how big was the team and what scale were you guys at?
00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:14.399
Yeah, we were about 25 people.
00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:19.279
Um, and we had grown the business over six years.
00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:30.399
Uh and fortunately, I mean, kind of just lucky luckily around the timing of it all, um, as we discussed, influencer marketing was taking off, but we hit COVID and then the business just boomed, right?
00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:36.879
Accelerated because there's so much activity around, well, you know, there's not traditional TV and people can't go outside.
00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:40.960
And so um, brands that were already spending on influencer marketing doubled down.
00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:42.480
That was the best place to put their budgets.
00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:49.519
And a lot of brands who'd been on the fence and hadn't quite, you know, uh uh dove in yet said, okay, this is the wake-up call.
00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.879
Like we're finally going to give it a shot.
00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:58.240
So um we started doing a lot more work with brands and agencies and then had this inbound interest in the company.
00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:04.080
And we had kind of thought about that or evaluated it, you know, previously, but it never had felt like the right time.
00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:12.159
And then all of a sudden it was kind of like, okay, for various reasons for the company, this, you know, feels like the right strategic fit to explore it.
00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:15.120
And also for us personally, kind of the timing made sense.
00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.559
Um, so that's how we ended up kind of getting into the process.
00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:19.440
Nice.
00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:20.720
Very nice.
00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:23.600
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00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.039
And let's start to unpack it a little bit.
00:12:53.279 --> 00:13:02.399
So the was it a customer, was it a partner, who approached to about the initial acquisition?
00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:03.279
Yeah.
00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:06.960
So we had some discussions, never with customers or partners.
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:19.039
I suppose they were all other established players in the influencer marketing space, other technology companies, those that you know had a strategic interest in getting into influencer marketing.
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:31.440
Um, so whether that was other players in social or digital and just saw that this was kind of the next boon that they needed to be a part of, that was kind of the folks who had reached out and we we said, okay, you know, let's let's see what this looks like.
00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:33.519
And then we hired a banker and ran a process.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.639
And so he had some relationships and we had some additional relationships.
00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:45.360
And the ultimate buyer ended up being Brandwatch, which was someone, you know, I met the founder and CEO, um Giles Palmer, uh, through that process.
00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:51.440
Um, and it just ended up being the best fit and the best kind of structure and deal for for everyone involved.
00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:52.399
Nice.
00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.759
And you you shopped it around, like you worked with a banker.
00:13:55.840 --> 00:14:00.240
So, how many different suitors were there out there that were talking to you?
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:07.919
Um we had a list of probably close to a hundred and um maybe talk to 30 or 40 at least.
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:14.960
Um, so had a number of conversations and then kind of quickly see, well, who's serious, you know, who do we feel excited about?
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:17.919
Where there's kind of this shared vision and values.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:25.919
And so that kind of helped us pare it down to a smaller list where we could get, you know, serious and find out, you know, who is going to be the right long-term home.
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:30.480
And I think a question that comes up a lot is around timing.
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:32.639
And I'm curious to get your take.
00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:35.679
Like, why was it the right time for you guys to sell?
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.200
And what kind of wisdom can you share for others about timing?
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:45.840
So when I work with other entrepreneurs who are thinking about the same thing, I tell them there's there's two uh dimensions to this question.
00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:49.600
The first dimension is um what's right for the company.
00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:53.360
And so for us as a business, we had hit this inflection point.
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:58.159
We knew great, like we can continue to lean in and and just reinvest back into the business.
00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.759
But at a certain point, our space is also crowded and competitive.
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:06.399
It's very clear there's going to be more consolidation, which has played out now or the past couple of years.
00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:17.440
So we either need to go raise money to double down on this success and start buying up smaller competitors, um, or we need to find a strategic partner who shares our vision, right?
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.399
And so the other dimension to this is the personal aspect.
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.720
Um, like I mentioned, I had these two co-founders.
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:35.200
Ole had had his third kid by the time we were getting to the stage and had shared with us, hey, you know, I love the business and passionate about working with you guys, but I really like doing early stage things, zero to one, right?
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.440
Kind of like incubating and launching a new idea.
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:42.000
Um, and so we were much more in growth mode, and that was a little less interesting.
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:44.799
And we had like a VP of engineering who was running the day-to-day.
00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:49.279
Ole said, like, you know, I want to kind of take a step back and work on other things I'm excited about.
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.440
Um, Thomas, similar story.
00:15:51.519 --> 00:16:00.559
He had his first child as we were um getting to this point, and he and I had been kicking around another idea, which became Measure Studio uh years later.
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:11.279
But um he got really passionate about I've got this other concept, a thing that I want to focus on, and you know, my lifestyle is going to change becoming a parent.
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:28.000
And so um with that, I think all of us realized like, okay, there's some personal motivations that if we found the right buyer and the deal terms were the, you know, a good fit, that we would want to uh take the win and like continue to build successes in these other areas that we're excited about.
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:38.080
Um, so all of those things cumulatively came together, and we just got incredibly fortunate with the timing that um we were able to find someone who kind of really believed in what we were up to.
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:39.600
Nice, very nice.
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:47.200
And when it when it comes to valuation, you know, how did you guys approach it and how did the banker help you guys approach it with negotiations?
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:51.279
And, you know, was it multiple on on trailing 12 months?
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.519
How did how did you guys really approach it?
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:54.399
Yeah.
00:16:54.639 --> 00:17:09.519
So uh, you know, the buy side always wants uh like a trailing 12 month um look back, and then the sell side will sometimes advocate for you know a forward-looking 12 months if they can justify, hey, we've got strong growth and we want to kind of use more of a forecast approach.
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:11.599
Um but for us it was off of top line revenue.
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.279
You know, they looked at a pro forma Ibita um as well.
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:28.559
But, you know, as a tech business, it was much more on, you know, um, the top line potential for the business and then how you know how strong are these contracts and the retention of these customers and how sticky is the technology that you're building.
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:34.079
And fortunately, you know, all of that was sound and the thesis around buying the business worked out very well.
00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.119
It's it's performed very nicely as an asset for Brandwatch.
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:43.119
Um, but yeah, in terms of the deal analysis and coming up with a valuation framework, it was always off the top line revenue.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:43.839
Nice.
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:45.119
Yeah, top line.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.160
Definitely big win, big win doing it off the top line.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:48.880
I like that.
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:50.079
I like that.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.920
So with uh with being prepared, it's kind of a good segue.
00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:59.359
Preparedness is is something that a lot of people talk about starting on day one.
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:03.279
Some people were a bit surprised when they were approached by acquiring companies.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:14.000
And since you guys were working with, you know, someone to help you along the way, what can you share about how you guys got prepared and how other people can can prepare their business?
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:14.880
Yeah.
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:18.640
The first piece of advice is to just be very organized, right?
00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:24.079
You're going to get asked every possible question about your business, some things you've never thought about in your life.
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:35.119
Uh, and so just having really clear documentation around things from all of your contracts organized, your financials, all of your systems, your employment agreements with people over time.
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:37.519
A lot of that stuff is very difficult to recreate.
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:44.640
Fortunately, we were very organized, so a lot of that already existed, but you'll be surprised how easy it is for things to slip through the cracks.
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.480
So be organized is number one.
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:50.960
Um, number two, early on in the process, you're kind of in the dating phase.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.160
And so uh an acquirer wants to just get a sense for your business.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:55.519
Is it a strategic fit?
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:57.039
Do the financials make sense?
00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.680
You know, what's the what does a combination look like?
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:09.440
And so um they're gonna want to understand what's your go-to-market strategy and what's your, you know, what's the the headcount of the team and that that stuff look like.
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:13.359
So we had a corporate overview deck, we had a financial packet ready.
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:17.680
And then once you get into the LOI phase, you start to do the confirmatory diligence.
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:19.920
And I mean, then they turn over every stone.
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:30.480
So that's, you know, in the weeds on the legal and the tax and the finance stuff, but also, you know, understanding your operational processes and your sales motion, all that stuff.
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:35.359
So um the when it when you get to that stage, all you can do is be transparent, right?
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:45.599
Like give them all the reasons up front, you know, that they should um want to buy your business, but also the the potential red flags or areas of concern so that there's no surprises later on, right?
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:52.559
Just be very open and transparent about how the business is doing and and tackle all the questions head on.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.519
Nice.
00:19:53.839 --> 00:20:00.880
And when it came to picking the eventual uh acquire brand watch, you know, it sounds like it was a really good fit.
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:02.240
Was there a short list?
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:05.359
And did you guys kind of have a conversation about it as a team?
00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:07.759
And how did how did that work out eventually?
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:13.440
Was it was it one person on the team that kind of drove it home with Brandwatch, or how did that play out?
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:14.079
Yeah.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:14.720
Yeah.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:22.880
So um when we were running the process, we were talking to a number of folks and uh and had strong interest from several.
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:25.359
We ended up getting an offer from a different party.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:34.160
And I was leading the process, but you know, very much closely collaborating with my other partners on, you know, do how do we feel about the offer?
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:35.119
Is this the right partner?
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:36.960
And they were helping me kind of vet that out.
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:41.039
But we got an offer from a party and uh we're kind of starting to go down the road with them.
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:47.119
And Giles from Brandwatch circled back and said, Hey, you know, I know we talked a couple months ago and sorry, things got crazy.
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.039
You know, we were busy, I'm sure you were too.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:57.680
I now have some more time to kind of uh focus on this, but I can appreciate if you guys are, you know, uh busy it's been a minute.
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.240
So um I almost said no, to be honest.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:05.759
Like the process is exhausting and we were feeling pretty good about this other opportunity.
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:09.440
Um, but something deep down just said, you know, what's one more call?
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:15.599
So we hopped on the phone the next day and he brought his product and engineering people, and right away it was like fireworks, right?
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.319
They got excited, we got excited, they said, Hey, can we chat again tomorrow?
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:19.680
Can we chat again on Monday?
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:33.519
And um, very quickly that turned into them making an offer, uh, which we ended up feeling like, okay, well, not only was it better terms and a better fit, but we just got, you know, much more excited about that as the as the future home for Paladin.
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.240
So it almost didn't happen, but uh luckily it did because it ended up being the right choice.
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:39.680
Nice, nice.
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:44.559
So the the head count was about twenty five, he said, as as he scaled up.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.680
And what did what did that look like as the deal went through?
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:49.200
Did everybody go over?
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:53.759
Was there like an earnout period for the whole team?
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:55.920
How how how did that work out?
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:56.720
Yeah.
00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.839
So everyone was given the opportunity to to move over.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.119
And that was important to me, right?
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.400
Is like we had um worked together for a long time.
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:06.640
People were passionate about what we were building.
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:16.400
And I wanted any sort of acquisition that we did to be a good thing, not just for us as founders or shareholders, but also for our customers, for our team members.
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:24.079
And I would tell people when we were going through the process, um, you know, I'm not interested if you just want the team and you're gonna shut the tech down, right?
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:26.079
We very we care a lot about what we've built.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:28.240
We want our customers to continue to be supported.
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:29.279
That's important.
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:34.559
Um, similarly, I don't want to sell you this business if you're just interested in the tech and you're gonna lay everybody off, right?
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:36.480
Like that wasn't gonna work for us either.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:40.559
So we made that an important prerequisite to any conversation we were having.
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.359
And uh fortunately, that was a non-issue for Brandwatch.
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:45.680
They were excited about the platform, they wanted the whole team.
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:55.119
They, in fact, gave us additional budget to invest in what we were doing because they said what you have is great, and we're gonna, you know, plug that into a big sales org and rapidly commercialize it.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:00.480
But we also want you to have more resources to double down on marketing and and product development.
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:05.759
And so um that emphasized for us that this was uh the the right fit for us.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:15.279
Now, admittedly, when you build a startup, some people are startup people and they're like, okay, you know, this has been fun, but um, this is my stop on the train, right?
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:22.000
Like it's been awesome, but you know, I it's gonna evolve and I've kind of felt like I've played my part and I want to do other things.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:25.599
And so there were a couple cases of that, but we gave everyone the choice, right?
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:32.960
Like, do you want to come along for the next stage in the journey, or do you feel like, you know, you've done your piece and you're happy to uh to move on to the next thing?
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:34.319
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:45.359
Providing providing the choice because there's uh you mentioned it, but zero to one, zero to one people and one and beyond people are different, uh different breeds for sure.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:52.720
And uh there's nothing nothing wrong with either of them, but it's uh it's cool that you guys gave that choice for sure.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:54.319
Yeah, for sure.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:00.480
So that kind of takes us to the finale question of knowing what you know now, what would you tell James 10 years ago?
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.400
Oh boy.
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:07.279
Um I'm so glad I did it, but it's incredibly challenging, right?
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.319
Like being a first-time founder, you don't know what you don't know.
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:13.119
The emotional roller coaster is significant.
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:16.240
So the highs are incredibly high, but the lows are challenging.
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:23.680
And I'm blessed to have two awesome co-founders in addition to a team who supported us throughout the good and the bad times.
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:29.200
But um, you know, you have to know when to stick with it, and you have to know sometimes when an idea isn't working out.
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:34.319
There's been plenty of failed projects I've had along the way or other things where it just didn't work.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:40.640
Uh, and so part of this is just a journey of yourself as an entrepreneur, getting comfortable with what you can do.
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:47.599
And, you know, thankfully, my youthful naivete, I think, contributed in a large respect to like, hey, let's just jump in, we'll figure it out as we go along.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:52.240
Um, I have a different approach to building businesses now, though admittedly I'm not I'm not slopping.
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:58.319
So I think one of the hardest lessons for us to learn was uh go deep before you go wide, right?
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:02.079
It's so easy to get distracted and want to build a bunch of different features.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:10.400
But um the the key to success we found is just nailing something that you can be uniquely the best in the world at.
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:17.599
Uh and so, you know, rather than us trying to build three tools out of the gate, we should have built solved the biggest pain point.
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:26.240
And then once we've got customers and we've kind of gotten a good reputation for solving that problem, start to expand into adjacent categories.
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.880
Uh, but you know, trying to do too much all at once was was something we struggled with in the early days.
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:31.519
Nice.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:32.240
Well said.
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:34.000
Nail it before you scale it.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:34.720
I like it.
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:36.400
Uh choosing that one.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.839
That's really, really good piece of advice for everybody that's listening through.
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:43.519
So let's shift gears and talk about what you're working on now.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:44.079
Yeah.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.440
Uh so a few things.
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:50.400
Um, I do a good bit of advisory work helping founders navigate the MA process.
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:58.880
So after we sold Paladin, I wrote a little bit about it on LinkedIn, both the emotional journey that you go through, but also um just kind of this kind of stuff, right?
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:08.160
I love your mission of sharing these stories with other people because so often, you know, exiting a business is this mysterious thing of like, well, how do I get there?
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:09.039
How do I accomplish it?
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:20.400
And so I've been fortunate to help some friends and other founders um kind of go through the process, everything from finding the right buyer to, you know, making sure you're legally protected and you've structured the deal the right way.
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.279
But aside from that, um we're building Measure Studio.
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:33.839
So my co-founder Thomas and I from the Paladin Days are uh reprising our roles and building a social media analytics platform that uses computer vision to inform content strategy.
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:35.359
Uh, and that's a lot of fun.
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:40.559
And then I saw a need for a job board in our industry, the creator economy.
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:44.319
So I launched the first job board to connect creators and candidates.
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:52.000
And that's kind of a passion project where I used to get asked all the time, hey, you know, we're hiring, we need a head of marketing, we need salespeople, engineers, who do you know?
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.000
And I just make introductions, but now I have a platform where I can kind of scale that impact.
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:56.640
Cool.
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:57.279
Very cool.
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:08.960
Yeah, I think the the idea that a lot of more traditional business operators don't really view YouTube and things like that as businesses yet.
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:13.200
Um, and I think it that's changing pretty rapidly with Mr.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:21.519
Beast and some of these other people that are launching huge product lines and all of these actual products that they're selling to people that are doing billions of dollars.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:26.720
So I yeah, I think they're they're yeah, it's it's crazy how fast it's going.
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:38.160
And it's it's really cool that you're focused on that because providing help to these people where most people don't even really associate them as businesses is a really cool approach.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:38.960
I like that.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:39.839
I like that a lot.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:41.359
Well, nice.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.079
Yeah, where can people learn more about that?
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:44.880
Sure.
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.680
Uh the best place to connect with me is LinkedIn.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:53.839
So if you go search for James Greach, uh you'll find me and I share a lot more about what's going on in social media through my newsletter.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:57.440
Um, I write frequently on LinkedIn, you'll see stuff about creator economy jobs.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:02.079
If you want to check out what we're building at Measure Studio, check out Measure.studio.
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:07.759
Uh, if you're curious about creator economy jobs or looking for your next opportunity, go to creatoreconomy jobs.co.
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:09.920
We update the site daily with new opportunities.
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:15.680
We send out a weekly newsletter kind of telling people about cool new jobs and industry news and uh always happy to help.
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:16.319
Awesome.
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:16.799
Awesome.
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.119
Well, those are all the questions I have for you, James.
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:23.920
Wherever you guys are listening on iTunes or Spotify, the links that James mentioned will be in the show notes.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.920
But thanks so much for coming on and sharing your story.
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:26.720
Thanks for having me.
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:27.839
This was fun.
