Nobody Wants to Work? Your Leadership Might Be the Problem

WEBVTT
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Today we are ready to talk about how you are the problem.
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Not not you.
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Not me.
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Them.
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Them.
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Them.
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Them out there.
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Sometimes.
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Sometimes we're the problem.
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But we've heard the.
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Nobody wants to work anymore.
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And it is like when I say that you instantly think for you.
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Correct.
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We're gonna help you fix that.
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Stay tuned.
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She's the CEO.
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He's the marketing and operations guy.
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If it's broken, you need the business fix.
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There is always, always, always, always a labor shortage.
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Even when unemployment is high.
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Always.
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There is a labor shortage.
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I, I always like it when you're when you find someone where there's, I mean, super high unemployment.
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We just can't find good people.
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Uh huh.
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Um, there's usually a reason, right?
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Because they're hiding from you.
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Generally.
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Generally.
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Right.
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Or it's a really.
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It's a job nobody wants.
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Literally nobody wants to do.
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But that's.
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I mean, rarely is that the case.
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What I find so funny about that is that, like, there are people that drive trucks that pump out septic tanks.
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Yes.
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And yet you can't find someone to work in your office.
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Mhm.
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Yep.
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There are people that have jobs that literally shorten their lifespan.
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And yet you can't find someone.
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Right.
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So to me, I look at this like, that's some of the things that make me take the.
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Nobody wants to work anymore with a grain of salt.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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There's people that are inhaling coal dust.
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Yes.
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No problem.
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This is a problem we haven't solved yet.
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Right.
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This is a solvable, most likely a solvable problem.
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You may not like how to solve it, but it's solvable.
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They're in, they're in.
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That clarity is kindness.
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Yeah.
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Um, and that was very kindly put because I people can probably come up with their way that I would have said that and it would have been much, much less friendly, more direct.
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Um, but yeah, you go to any networking group chamber meeting, online forum.
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Yep.
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Five minutes, like less than five minutes in.
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You're going to hear the no one wants to work anymore.
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We are going to call the BS on that narrative.
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Yeah.
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Great talent is out there.
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Amazing talents out there.
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They just are hiding from you.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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And to me, there's there's so many reasons why I love on this.
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So when you hear owners crying, nobody wants to work.
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Yeah.
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From the HR from the CEO perspective.
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Why is that phrase first off, like, I don't want to say I judge people instantly when I hear it, but I kind of do.
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Yeah.
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Let's not cover this up.
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Like, why is that phrase the ultimate indicator of some leadership delusions?
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Like, like, and what are candidates running away from that make, make people make business owners, make managers, make HR feel like no one wants to work.
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Yeah.
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So I think the phrase nobody wants to work anymore tells us more about the employer than it does about the employee.
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Ooh, that's and it's direct, but it's true.
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It's, it's, it's one of those things that's painful to hear, but you need to hear it.
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Well, it's not like we haven't dealt with this either personally.
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I mean, no. Oh for sure.
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I mean, this like, I hate to say this, but I'm going to make it.
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You know how I love analogies.
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This is the bathroom scale.
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Yes.
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Yes it is.
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This is this is the bathroom scale for your business?
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Yeah.
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I mean, because people, good people are working and you may have good team members that are working for you.
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You just may not be able to find more.
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So let's talk about that.
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I think that, you know, high performers absolutely have jobs right now.
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They're just they're choosing carefully.
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And I think that's what a lot of owners, business leaders, managers don't want to hear.
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It's not always a labor shortage.
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I think a lot of times it's really a leadership shortage.
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So, you know, top talent exists, top talent can move, but top talent has options.
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And so if you're only attracting low quality candidates, those desperate candidates are the people who, you know, disappear halfway through the process.
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Your workplace may be acting as a negative filter because your offer, reputation, culture may also be filtering people out.
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So let's go back to something that we've talked about a lot on this podcast.
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Josh, let's talk about the three C's of leadership.
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Oh, we have mentioned this before a few times, a few times.
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And this is where especially in this, when you're answering this question, like, nobody wants to work anymore.
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This is where clarity, consistency, and care matter, because clarity means the role is real and understandable.
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It's not a position that is really built for ten people, or one person who can do all ten things perfectly, including being emotional support for the owner.
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It's got to be really clear about what is the role that we actually want to fill.
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All right.
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So it shouldn't have an therapist?
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No. Being emotional support for the owner in those ten other things, that's not a role.
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So if we want people to work here, we need to make sure we have a defined role.
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And the role makes logical sense.
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And it is based in reality.
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So clarity first based in reality.
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In reality, it's not the Franken job.
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It's not the like wishful thinking unicorn hunter.
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Like I mean, you can still be a unicorn hunter if you really want to be.
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Just know it's going to take a really long time.
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And every time you say somebody doesn't want to work anymore, your unicorn falls away in the distance.
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It's like you kill another one.
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So just don't just looking for Bigfoot.
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Yeah.
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Be clear in your role.
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And then consistency means the expectations match.
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The pay.
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Interview matches job, and the process reflects the culture that you claim to have.
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Right.
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Do what you say and say what you do over and over and over and over and over and over.
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Consistency.
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So I got clarity.
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We're going to describe the job consistency.
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We're going to show up.
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We're going to be the people that we said we were going to be in the interview process.
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And then care means you're paying attention to the reality that people are living in.
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And so we've talked about, you know, posting the range on your jobs.
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Here's the other piece.
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I mean, you can't pay two thousand and eighteen wages in a twenty twenty six economy and expect one hundred and ten percent delegation and dedication.
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They're not going to do it.
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No, no. Twenty eighteen wages is not twenty twenty six.
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Wages are just for a different position.
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I mean, people know what things cost.
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People know what their child care, what their groceries, what their housing, all those things cost.
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So when employers act shocked that candidates care about compensation.
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I mean, that's not a candidate problem.
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So the other piece of care is respect.
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So if you're hiring process, this is speaking more to process.
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I'm sure you'll talk about it too.
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If it takes three weeks to review a resume and five rounds of chaotic interviews and maybe I'll call them back, we don't really communicate clearly.
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And then we silence the employee like there's no no communication in between any of those moments.
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You're teaching candidates that working for you, that's how it's going to feel like they feel alone on an island while they're being interviewed and going through the candidate process.
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Well, congratulations, you're going to be alone on an island when you get hired.
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It's like getting ghosted by a date.
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It is, it is.
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And then they call you the night that they're desperate.
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Yes, yes.
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And even if that's not how it worked, that's how it that's how it felt.
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Yes.
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And so, you know, candidates aren't running away from that work.
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They're running away from unclear roles, chaotic leadership and workplaces that want loyalty before they have earned trust.
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I mean, people do want to work where there's clarity about the role, consistency and how they're led and care and how they're treated.
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So if we lead with clarity, consistency, and care in our hiring process and our onboarding process, we're going to continue to find people that want to work.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It seems basic, but it's one of those things that we often miss and truly do.
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It is.
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And it's easy to miss because it's easy to get busy and working on and in the business in other ways.
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And you forget, oh, I need to do that.
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Oh, I should really work on that.
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When you hire, it's usually usually.
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And this is one of my one of my comparisons.
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You're usually busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.
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Yes.
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And you're like, the last thing I want to do is onboard this person.
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But the most important thing I need to do is onboard this person.
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So when you're getting when you're when you're as the business, when you're getting ghosted.
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Yeah.
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Or zero applications coming in.
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Yeah.
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Or you're like, yeah, we've got a person.
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We have a warm body and after ninety days, they're gone.
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Yes.
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Like, what does that reveal about the like the employer brand, the pay, the, the psychological, like, what does that reveal about that culture?
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So I'm going to answer that.
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But I want to give a caveat first, because as I was working through these notes, I had to like.
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But it doesn't really apply to this one right now.
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So I'm going to say for those of you trying to fill a sales job, which is like two thirds of the planet.
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Yes.
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And really where a lot of the nobody wants to work anymore comes from.
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It is a hard market right now, and it is a hard market in, in part because culture is changing around sales.
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And as leaders, we're going to have to figure this out long term, how sales works in our economy, how that communication works, how that role fits is really starting to change.
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And what worked before is no longer working.
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And we're all trying to solve this, hence why technology around sails is so hot right now.
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That's why there's so many different AI driven.
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Like here.
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You want to be a salesperson.
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This is this is your automated sales agent.
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It's still not going to work.
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All right.
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So that's we're all trying to figure that out.
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So give yourself a little grace in that and let's continue to work on solving that problem.
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But when it comes to everything else as it relates to people, back to the question.
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All right.
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When I see high candidate ghosting know application flow, immediate ninety day turnover, I start by looking for the trust gap because somewhere in that process, trust is breaking and sometimes it breaks before the candidate even applies.
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That's when the job posting is vague.
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Salary is missing, told you before post the freaking range.
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The expectations of the job sound unrealistic, so I'm not applying for something that sounds impossible to achieve.
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So if I look at a job posting and it's telling me all of these different things, it's like, I don't even know if I want to do that job.
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You're not going to apply for it.
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No, no. So I mean, and then sometimes two trust breaks in the hiring process.
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And that's where we talked about it a second ago.
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You know, Canada applies and hears nothing for two weeks.
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Then the company suddenly wants them.
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There's a lot of urgency and you have to follow up quickly.
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So when we treat recruiting like a sales process, it's got to be with urgency.
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So that's it.
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I tell you, treat it like a sales process.
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If someone has interest and they fit.
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Time is of the essence, especially when you know you're in a competitive job market.
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So it's really about, you know, they, they hit ding, they hit yes.
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To apply for the job on ZipRecruiter.
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I mean, get to them within twenty four hours.
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This is the number one priority for your organization is filling this pipeline.
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Yes.
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All right.
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The other thing that happens sometimes is a candidate will go through multiple interviews and they get inconsistent information from the people that are interviewing them.
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And then the employer is shocked when they accept another offer and they're like, well, they showed up to all the interviews.
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Yeah, but you gave them one piece of information.
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The recruiter gave them another piece of information, and then the person that was doing the vibe check gave them a whole nother different piece.
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Like if no one can, if you can't consistently explain what a day looks like between three different people in your organization, you got a problem.
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I have been through that, yes.
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And I mean, that too is a slow respectless hiring loop because no one is on the same page.
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So the other thing I would say to you about psychological safety is it really does start in the funnel of the sales, like not the sales process, but in the recruiting process.
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So it doesn't start after orientation.
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How you treat them through the interview process is a preview of how they believe you will treat them as employees.
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So did you respect their time?
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Did you communicate clearly?
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Did you follow up when you said you were going to follow up?
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Huge.
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That's that's the biggest.
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Well, you know, I got busy and I just didn't send them that confirmation email.
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Oh, you would be mad if somebody didn't send you a thank you after the interview.
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How about you send them a yes.
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You're moving on.
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No, you're not moving.
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Like, did you tell the truth to you about the role?
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Oh, it's this many hours a week.
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It's this.
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And then they come in and they're like, no, we expect we have mandatory overtime.
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That's a very different question, very different issue.
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So you remember psychological safety talks about, you know, I know what to expect here when they walk in.
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So when someone leaves in the first ninety days, I think you need to ask yourself three questions.
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What did we promise?
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What did they experience and where was the gap?
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Oh yeah.
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Well, we're my expectations.
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What were their expectations?
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And then how far apart were we?
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And chances are, if they're gone within the first ninety days there was a pretty big gap.
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Oh I mean yeah.
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And you've you've those are great questions because it says what's broken that we can fix.
00:15:05.225 --> 00:15:05.660
It does.
00:15:05.660 --> 00:15:09.393
I mean, and that takes us back to clarity, consistency and care through the employee lifecycle.
00:15:09.393 --> 00:15:13.326
We're solving a lot of our headaches before they start when we're clear in those roles.
00:15:13.326 --> 00:15:21.160
And I think too, if the interview promise support and training, and then the reality is confusion and like, here's your manual, go read it.
00:15:21.160 --> 00:15:23.060
No structure, no clear expectations.
00:15:23.060 --> 00:15:26.360
That employee is going to know very quickly that the promise didn't match the proof.
00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:28.060
And that's not a labor market issue.
00:15:28.060 --> 00:15:29.626
That's an employer brand issue.
00:15:29.626 --> 00:15:30.692
You did it wrong.
00:15:32.860 --> 00:15:33.493
It's just simple.
00:15:33.493 --> 00:15:34.326
You did it wrong.
00:15:35.626 --> 00:15:37.826
I don't mean it to sound rude, but you did it wrong.
00:15:37.826 --> 00:15:38.960
One hundred percent.
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:39.326
Yeah.
00:15:39.326 --> 00:15:39.826
Yeah.
00:15:39.826 --> 00:15:43.692
I mean, that's the that that really is that is the only way to put that.
00:15:43.692 --> 00:15:54.225
But in this, if we start to realize that, okay, the process is busted, the the stuff we're doing is busted.
00:15:54.225 --> 00:15:54.926
Mhm.
00:15:54.926 --> 00:16:08.826
How do you pivot from blaming the labor market to building that culture and pipeline that has people in it that you actually want working for you instead of just, well, they're looking for a job.
00:16:08.826 --> 00:16:10.360
I guess I'll take them.
00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:10.759
Yeah.
00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:14.725
So it's a CEO trait that most of us don't like to talk about.
00:16:14.725 --> 00:16:17.526
The first step is humility.
00:16:17.526 --> 00:16:22.026
So, you know, not shame, not defensiveness, humility.
00:16:22.026 --> 00:16:30.560
So CEO has to be willing to ask, what are we doing that makes it hard for the right people to say yes?
00:16:30.560 --> 00:16:30.926
Mhm.
00:16:30.926 --> 00:16:31.593
And really ask that.
00:16:31.593 --> 00:16:33.126
Not nobody wants to work anymore.
00:16:33.126 --> 00:16:34.426
Why can't we find the right people?
00:16:34.426 --> 00:16:39.759
What are we doing that makes it so hard for the right candidates to say yes to our organization?
00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.060
And then the pivot is really simple.
00:16:41.060 --> 00:16:47.326
It's stop blaming the labor market and start asking where the business is missing clarity, consistency, and care.
00:16:47.326 --> 00:16:52.225
So clarity again means the role is real, understandable, and honest.
00:16:52.225 --> 00:16:59.860
People should know what the job is, what success looks like, what it pays, what it's, what's hard about it, and what support exists.
00:16:59.860 --> 00:17:01.960
So we're clear in the role.
00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:15.826
Consistency means that our experience as a new team member matches the promise, which means the posting, the interview process, the expectations, onboarding, and the first ninety days all tell the same story.
00:17:15.826 --> 00:17:16.526
Consistency.
00:17:16.526 --> 00:17:20.925
And then care is respecting the person on the other side of the process.
00:17:20.925 --> 00:17:22.725
It's not lowering standards.
00:17:22.725 --> 00:17:30.759
It's communicating honestly, paying attention to market reality, respecting their time and not setting people up to fail.
00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:38.660
So then the question becomes where are we unclear, inconsistent, or careless in the way we hire and lead?
00:17:38.660 --> 00:17:41.225
And I know that can sound a sound like a little heavy.
00:17:41.225 --> 00:17:42.259
It is, it is.
00:17:42.259 --> 00:17:48.960
But it's really how a CEO stops blaming candidates and starts building a workplace where strong people actually want to choose to be there.
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.359
I that that last statement.
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:52.725
I truly love that.
00:17:52.725 --> 00:17:53.359
Yeah.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:57.125
Stop blame be be the place where people want to work.
00:17:57.125 --> 00:17:58.059
Yes.
00:17:58.059 --> 00:17:59.725
Be the change you want to see in the world.
00:17:59.725 --> 00:18:01.692
If you want people to work here.
00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:04.059
Model.
00:18:04.059 --> 00:18:04.660
What's your mandate?
00:18:04.660 --> 00:18:06.225
Even if it's just your world?
00:18:06.225 --> 00:18:07.893
Yes, just your world.
00:18:07.893 --> 00:18:10.559
So is what it is.
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.625
All right, Josh, so let's talk about operations.
00:18:12.625 --> 00:18:13.160
Oh, goody.
00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:13.759
Yes.
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:19.526
So if an owner's phone isn't ringing with quality applicants or candidates are ghosting them on day one.
00:18:19.526 --> 00:18:22.326
Where's the operational friction in their talent machine?
00:18:22.326 --> 00:18:24.859
How do we reimagine or re-architect it?
00:18:24.859 --> 00:18:30.026
It's funny because as I was thinking about this, I started to look at like the supply and demand trap.
00:18:30.026 --> 00:18:30.660
Yeah.
00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:46.192
Right now, I mean, that there's a heavy demand for performers and the supply isn't as great now, ten, fifteen years ago, like especially after the financial crisis, things of that nature.
00:18:46.192 --> 00:18:47.225
There was a different shift.
00:18:47.225 --> 00:18:53.192
So we're gonna like there is market demands at work here, but that doesn't mean you can use as as an excuse.
00:18:53.192 --> 00:18:55.192
No, we're not going to pray for a Great Depression.
00:18:55.192 --> 00:18:57.726
So we have more labor in the market.
00:18:57.726 --> 00:19:00.393
Don't be that jerk for the rest of the world.
00:19:00.393 --> 00:19:01.826
Right, right.
00:19:01.826 --> 00:19:03.960
And the thing is, is top tier operators.
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:05.059
They've got a job.
00:19:05.059 --> 00:19:06.860
Yeah, they've got a good job.
00:19:06.860 --> 00:19:07.793
They just don't work for you.
00:19:07.793 --> 00:19:08.460
Right?
00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:08.860
They.
00:19:08.860 --> 00:19:14.393
And the problem is, is they aren't just sitting there on their hands waiting for your job, posting to smack them in the face.
00:19:14.393 --> 00:19:15.793
No, they're usually happy.
00:19:15.793 --> 00:19:16.360
Correct.
00:19:16.360 --> 00:19:21.293
They're happy they don't have open to work on their LinkedIn profile.
00:19:21.293 --> 00:19:25.960
Um, so the demand for true a-players is really high while the supply remains tight.
00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:31.492
So if your offer compensation and operational reputation, I have to throw that in there.
00:19:31.492 --> 00:19:35.360
If they don't match the market realities, then you're out of the game before you even started.
00:19:35.360 --> 00:19:39.293
Just like it's like me playing basketball in the NBA.
00:19:39.293 --> 00:19:40.393
It's just not going to happen.
00:19:40.393 --> 00:19:40.726
Yeah.
00:19:40.726 --> 00:19:45.992
Because oftentimes too, if you attract top talent, you know how to retain top talent, correct?
00:19:45.992 --> 00:19:46.925
They don't want to leave.
00:19:46.925 --> 00:19:47.893
Correct.
00:19:47.893 --> 00:19:49.992
I want to go back to the nineteen fifties here.
00:19:49.992 --> 00:19:55.925
We'll get in the time machine like the nineteen fifties pension plans, lifetime corporate loyalty.
00:19:55.925 --> 00:19:59.226
Like, hey, we give you this, like you scratch my back, I scratch yours.
00:19:59.226 --> 00:20:04.393
The rigid top down hierarchy of we just blindly follow the lifers, right?
00:20:04.393 --> 00:20:10.492
The single earner, household stability and a gold watch ain't gonna do it no more.
00:20:10.492 --> 00:20:13.692
No, no one like most people, don't want a gold watch.
00:20:13.692 --> 00:20:16.593
No they're You're not.
00:20:16.593 --> 00:20:28.460
If you gave anyone under the age of forty the option between a Rolex and an Apple Watch, I guarantee probably eighty five percent of them take the Apple Watch.
00:20:28.460 --> 00:20:29.026
Yeah.
00:20:29.026 --> 00:20:31.093
Um, because, you know, tech.
00:20:31.093 --> 00:20:35.192
Um, um, so what do we need to look at today?
00:20:35.192 --> 00:20:35.992
Modern performers.
00:20:35.992 --> 00:20:36.992
They want autonomy.
00:20:36.992 --> 00:20:38.425
They want clear SOPs.
00:20:38.425 --> 00:20:40.259
They want personal growth velocity.
00:20:40.259 --> 00:20:42.593
They want modern tooling.
00:20:42.593 --> 00:20:49.526
Don't give them your like your operation system from nineteen eighty that still runs on a Commodore sixty four in the back room.
00:20:49.526 --> 00:20:53.192
Don't give them a CNC machine that is like it.
00:20:53.192 --> 00:20:56.226
The plates are stone because they didn't have metal yet.
00:20:56.226 --> 00:20:57.393
They want market rate pay.
00:20:57.393 --> 00:20:58.860
They want psychological safety.
00:20:58.860 --> 00:21:00.526
Now we've talked psychological safety.
00:21:00.526 --> 00:21:02.460
This does not mean fluffy rainbows.
00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:04.860
No. Um this means knowing what's going to happen.
00:21:04.860 --> 00:21:10.192
They are also they are not looking for the thirty year sentence.
00:21:10.192 --> 00:21:14.692
They aren't looking for pizza labeled as great culture.
00:21:14.692 --> 00:21:22.960
They want an environment where they can build real value without administrative friction for themselves and in turn, the business.
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:23.460
Yeah.
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:30.759
If you're fishing and the reason why I talk about this, if you're fishing, you need to use the bait for the fish you want to catch.
00:21:31.860 --> 00:21:35.559
Don't fish with minnows expecting to catch sharks.
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:38.125
Yes, everyone's throwing minnows in the ocean.
00:21:38.125 --> 00:21:39.992
And like, I want a shark to work for me.
00:21:39.992 --> 00:21:40.360
Well then.
00:21:40.360 --> 00:21:40.726
Great.
00:21:40.726 --> 00:21:43.960
Stop throwing in like a a bluegill.
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:45.759
Like a shark's not coming after that.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:46.860
No. Most likely not.
00:21:46.860 --> 00:21:50.026
And if they are, I mean, really good job.
00:21:50.026 --> 00:21:51.893
Like it happens once in a million.
00:21:51.893 --> 00:21:55.026
So you really want to be that one in a million or do you want to up your chances?
00:21:55.026 --> 00:21:56.026
Correct.
00:21:56.026 --> 00:21:56.393
Yeah.
00:21:56.393 --> 00:22:01.360
And that's the, the huge thing about it is if you are fishing with bluegill, you're gonna get a baby shark.
00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:01.893
Yes.
00:22:01.893 --> 00:22:04.593
And now everyone has that song in their head.
00:22:04.593 --> 00:22:05.726
You're welcome.
00:22:05.726 --> 00:22:09.360
Um, the last thing I want to say about this.
00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:11.992
Additionally, people do not want to feel like a hostage.
00:22:11.992 --> 00:22:14.992
I know a few people that are part of the stress.
00:22:14.992 --> 00:22:17.893
Yes, I hate my job, but I'm here, I can't leave.
00:22:17.893 --> 00:22:20.492
Yes, I know a lot of people like that.
00:22:20.492 --> 00:22:22.259
Yeah, and mid-level management.
00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:23.160
I have stock options.
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:24.425
I can't go anywhere.
00:22:24.425 --> 00:22:26.259
I've got fifteen years in, can't leave.
00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:32.059
And I'm like, oh, gosh, that's not a good way to feel either because once again, people are like, well, it keeps people in the job, right?
00:22:32.059 --> 00:22:34.692
People that don't want to be there don't want to be there, right?
00:22:34.692 --> 00:22:36.293
It's not even no one wants to work anymore.
00:22:36.293 --> 00:22:37.992
They're not, but they're still there.
00:22:37.992 --> 00:22:40.160
That's a different problem.
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:46.093
So what we're going to do like to fix some of this too is my part B of this is pipeline speed.
00:22:46.093 --> 00:22:55.226
Um, I love it when someone puts we have a fast paced environment and they don't respond to the want to the, to the add for three weeks.
00:22:55.226 --> 00:22:55.893
Oh my gosh.
00:22:55.893 --> 00:22:58.192
Yeah, I, I see it all the time.
00:22:58.192 --> 00:23:01.226
Must thrive in a fast paced environment in their job post.
00:23:01.226 --> 00:23:04.492
And then it's two to three weeks to respond to a qualified candidate.
00:23:04.492 --> 00:23:06.360
What's the problem, huh?
00:23:06.360 --> 00:23:07.259
Yeah.
00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:08.526
Holy cow.
00:23:08.526 --> 00:23:18.793
If you see, like, we've all been there where you see a candidate comes in and you see their resume and you, like the champagne starts raining down from the heavens.
00:23:18.793 --> 00:23:20.925
You hear the hum from the angels.
00:23:20.925 --> 00:23:22.860
Much better than that, obviously.
00:23:22.860 --> 00:23:26.326
Why are you saying, well, I'm going to leave this ad open for three weeks.
00:23:26.326 --> 00:23:28.559
Just email them.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:30.360
Oh my God, why are you waiting?
00:23:30.360 --> 00:23:32.460
Because I tell you what they've like.
00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:39.026
If they're that good, they've got other people getting offers to giving them offers to get in first.
00:23:39.026 --> 00:23:44.960
Well, and this is where I will say to the HR people, this is sometimes where they get mad at me and I really do not care.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:47.992
Their priorities are sometimes different than my priorities.
00:23:47.992 --> 00:23:51.759
And so it's one of those where they're like, what do you mean you're reviewing resumes all the time?
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:53.160
Like, look, this is important.
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:57.726
And if you can't call them back that fast, I will, I will leapfrog over for recruiting.
00:23:57.726 --> 00:23:58.526
Yep.
00:23:58.526 --> 00:23:59.660
Here's my question for you.
00:23:59.660 --> 00:24:00.326
Yes.
00:24:00.326 --> 00:24:06.393
If there is a fifty thousand dollars sales lead that comes in, are you calling them the next day?
00:24:06.393 --> 00:24:06.960
No.
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:08.160
Immediately.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:09.660
Correct immediately.
00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:11.226
We're responding in some way, right?
00:24:11.226 --> 00:24:12.026
Email, text message.
00:24:12.026 --> 00:24:12.226
Phone.
00:24:12.226 --> 00:24:13.293
Maybe all three.
00:24:13.293 --> 00:24:13.793
Correct.
00:24:13.793 --> 00:24:17.226
Why aren't you treating your applicants like this exactly like.
00:24:17.226 --> 00:24:24.460
Like that person, especially over the lifetime, is worth a hell of a lot more than fifty thousand dollars, even if it's an entry level position.
00:24:24.460 --> 00:24:26.526
Respond quickly.
00:24:26.526 --> 00:24:39.826
The other thing that I want to say, too, is if your application process requires uploading a resume and then retyping the same exact data into twenty manual formula fields on a clunky portable that you are, you are.
00:24:39.826 --> 00:24:51.460
That right there is actively filtering out top people because they see that and they're like, if their intake process is this terrible, I can only imagine what daily life is like.
00:24:51.460 --> 00:24:51.826
Yes.
00:24:51.826 --> 00:24:54.425
And don't act like you're one of those companies that's so special.
00:24:54.425 --> 00:24:55.293
You do it on purpose.
00:24:55.293 --> 00:24:56.625
There are only a couple.
00:24:56.625 --> 00:25:00.026
There's like a handful that get to say that you're not one of them.
00:25:00.026 --> 00:25:03.893
I promise if you're listening to our podcast, you're not one of them one hundred percent.
00:25:03.893 --> 00:25:08.226
Um, the other thing I always tell people, apply for your job once.
00:25:08.226 --> 00:25:09.059
See how.
00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:10.226
See how long it takes.
00:25:10.226 --> 00:25:11.326
See how long it takes.
00:25:11.326 --> 00:25:11.759
Yeah.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.160
Go it like you check everything else in your business.
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:15.593
Yes.
00:25:15.593 --> 00:25:20.460
Why aren't you going to go apply for your own job and see how maddening it is and be like.
00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:22.125
Yeah, would I apply here?
00:25:22.125 --> 00:25:23.360
Yeah.
00:25:23.360 --> 00:25:26.460
And the problem is, or if you have a college student, make them apply.
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:26.860
Yeah.
00:25:26.860 --> 00:25:27.860
And watch them.
00:25:27.860 --> 00:25:31.259
But to me, the other thing is at the end of it, you have to, you have to.
00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:33.326
Would I apply here.
00:25:33.326 --> 00:25:35.326
And you know how wonderful you are.
00:25:36.360 --> 00:25:39.559
So but if I would want to go through our process.
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:40.625
Correct.
00:25:40.625 --> 00:25:41.059
So true.
00:25:41.059 --> 00:25:41.660
Correct.
00:25:41.660 --> 00:25:43.026
Correct.
00:25:43.026 --> 00:25:45.226
Your process should be thorough.
00:25:45.226 --> 00:25:49.160
I am ten thousand percent plus good with that.
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:50.593
It shouldn't feel pointless.
00:25:50.593 --> 00:25:52.125
Moving on to part C about this.
00:25:52.125 --> 00:25:53.860
Making people welcome.
00:25:53.860 --> 00:25:56.326
Stop the dump truck onboarding.
00:25:58.460 --> 00:26:07.660
Yeah, I mean, I have been like, we talked like I my career path has been different than mine varied.
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:10.826
I believe that is the polite way to put it.
00:26:10.826 --> 00:26:19.125
And everyone talks about, we've got this great training program and nine times out of ten it is you sitting in front of a computer and I'm like, what the hell is this?
00:26:19.125 --> 00:26:35.559
If the new hire shows up, sits in a room, and the company backs up a dump truck full of forty hours of outdated compliance videos where, you know, it was filmed in the eighties, where Bob says something inappropriate to Harriet, and you've got to decide if that's if that's right.
00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:36.226
Yes.
00:26:38.226 --> 00:26:41.425
Like this is they're going to leave no matter what.
00:26:41.425 --> 00:26:41.660
Yeah.
00:26:41.660 --> 00:26:42.460
I had another place.
00:26:42.460 --> 00:26:49.160
My first week was Zoom meetings with every other employee in the company just so I got to know people.
00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:50.460
Okay.
00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:51.826
Like half an hour.
00:26:51.826 --> 00:26:53.293
Hey, so what do you do?
00:26:53.293 --> 00:26:58.625
So I literally had forty Zoom meetings, which is fine if you're an extrovert.
00:26:58.625 --> 00:27:01.925
I mean, even if you are, it's just that's exhausting.
00:27:01.925 --> 00:27:05.125
And like, I spent forty times saying the same thing.
00:27:05.125 --> 00:27:06.360
Hi, I'm Josh.
00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:10.125
I like motorcycles and talking into microphones.
00:27:10.125 --> 00:27:13.793
I had to say that forty times and I'm like, I hate myself after this.
00:27:13.793 --> 00:27:15.192
No, if you're the CEO, that's different.
00:27:15.192 --> 00:27:18.192
But otherwise, no, that's not correct.
00:27:18.192 --> 00:28:00.490
Day one onboarding should be active, structured and welcoming.
00:28:00.490 --> 00:28:02.289
Anchor things in.
00:28:02.289 --> 00:28:07.755
Oh my god, real s oh PS oh what a concept.
00:28:07.755 --> 00:28:09.855
Um, maybe some short loom walkthroughs.
00:28:09.855 --> 00:28:13.255
I'm okay with some of those clear day one expectations.
00:28:13.255 --> 00:28:17.690
Day two expectations, day ten expectations, day ninety expectations.
00:28:17.690 --> 00:28:25.155
And how about some hands on execution on real tasks so they can build confidence instead of buyer's remorse?
00:28:25.155 --> 00:28:25.522
Yes.
00:28:25.522 --> 00:28:40.155
And if there are things that you have to check a box with and they're boring in the training, like just tell them, hey, I know you're not going to like having to sit through this for our training, but before we're allowed to touch any of our systems, you have to do this.
00:28:40.155 --> 00:28:41.423
so we know it's a pain.
00:28:41.423 --> 00:28:42.589
We're going to come check on you.
00:28:42.589 --> 00:28:44.955
Because you got to sit in this windowless room and do this.
00:28:44.955 --> 00:28:46.855
We're really sorry, but we didn't create these rules.
00:28:46.855 --> 00:28:48.155
The federal government did.
00:28:48.155 --> 00:28:50.222
That's what we do with our first piece of onboarding.
00:28:50.222 --> 00:28:51.423
And we're like, sorry.
00:28:51.423 --> 00:28:52.222
And the honesty is there.
00:28:52.222 --> 00:28:54.955
We're gonna tell you right now, we're really excited you're here.
00:28:54.955 --> 00:28:55.289
Welcome.
00:28:55.289 --> 00:28:55.889
Here's the tour.
00:28:55.889 --> 00:28:57.056
Here's where everything is.
00:28:57.056 --> 00:28:59.889
We have to put you in a windowless room until you pass this test, right?
00:28:59.889 --> 00:29:02.155
Because you can't touch or see anything until this is done.
00:29:02.155 --> 00:29:02.423
Right?
00:29:02.423 --> 00:29:04.255
Here's a pillow and a blankie and some warm milk.
00:29:04.255 --> 00:29:04.623
Pretty much.
00:29:04.623 --> 00:29:05.455
Please pass.
00:29:07.589 --> 00:29:09.089
You may use the bathroom.
00:29:09.089 --> 00:29:16.655
You may come out and take breaks, but really, until you can do anything else, you can't see or touch anything, but you set that expectation.
00:29:16.655 --> 00:29:17.255
We do.
00:29:17.255 --> 00:29:23.190
And once again, when like I'm walking into a shitstorm, I want to know which way the wind is blowing.
00:29:23.190 --> 00:29:28.589
If I know to have my umbrella to the west and stuff comes from the west, yeah, I'm okay with that.
00:29:28.589 --> 00:29:35.289
Well, and it's okay to tell like, as you're going through the hiring process and you're going through the training process, stop lying to people and telling them everything here is perfect.
00:29:35.289 --> 00:29:36.222
It's not.
00:29:36.222 --> 00:29:37.255
It's a work environment.
00:29:37.255 --> 00:29:40.123
There are some things that are great and there are some things that are not so great.
00:29:40.123 --> 00:29:41.522
Just be honest about it.
00:29:42.589 --> 00:29:44.289
Last piece I want to talk about it.
00:29:44.289 --> 00:29:47.490
You've you've got you've got the shark in the boat.
00:29:47.490 --> 00:29:47.923
Yeah.
00:29:47.923 --> 00:29:49.322
They are in the boat.
00:29:49.322 --> 00:29:51.389
They, they club them to death.
00:29:51.389 --> 00:29:53.990
They have made it past the couple like the.
00:29:53.990 --> 00:29:54.889
They're in the live.
00:29:54.889 --> 00:29:56.155
Well you've got them.
00:29:56.155 --> 00:29:57.955
You're pretty sure we're in good shape.
00:29:57.955 --> 00:30:06.955
There's a couple of things that like in order to create a workplace that people actually want to work in, like I'm going to go straight for the jugular here.
00:30:06.955 --> 00:30:09.589
Pay, pay.
00:30:09.589 --> 00:30:16.655
The people pay is never an afterthought or pay should never be a reward for surviving.
00:30:16.655 --> 00:30:21.690
Five years, I have worked a number of places that said, we're going to start you here and we'll move you to here.
00:30:21.690 --> 00:30:23.355
They never moved me to here.
00:30:23.355 --> 00:30:24.089
No.
00:30:24.089 --> 00:30:24.690
Ever.
00:30:24.690 --> 00:30:25.690
Not once.
00:30:25.690 --> 00:30:26.522
And so to me.
00:30:26.522 --> 00:30:30.455
And then this is why people like will never go for that ever again.
00:30:30.455 --> 00:30:32.655
We've lied to them for twenty years.
00:30:32.655 --> 00:30:36.690
And finally they've wised up and they're like, no, I'm not doing that anymore.
00:30:36.690 --> 00:30:45.990
If your pay bands are anchored to twenty eighteen numbers, you aren't paying competitive wages, you are subsidizing operational failure and high turnover.
00:30:45.990 --> 00:30:46.623
Yes.
00:30:46.623 --> 00:30:57.822
And so whatever you saved in salary, you have now paid double or triple in terms of rework, in terms of operational debt, in terms of all those other things, because they don't stay.
00:30:57.822 --> 00:31:01.655
No. They may say yes to the moment, but they are there.
00:31:01.655 --> 00:31:05.522
They never took open to work off of the back of their resume.
00:31:05.522 --> 00:31:07.190
No, they're still on ZipRecruiter.
00:31:07.190 --> 00:31:12.455
If they don't, if they do take it, you are going to get exactly the effort that you're paying for.
00:31:12.455 --> 00:31:16.222
If you pay the minimum amount, you're going to get exactly that effort from them.
00:31:16.222 --> 00:31:21.789
The other thing that I want to talk about is psychological safety as an operating operational system here.
00:31:21.789 --> 00:31:23.923
High performers do not fear hard work.
00:31:23.923 --> 00:31:26.855
Most of them love it.
00:31:26.855 --> 00:31:29.022
Um, they don't fear accountability.
00:31:29.022 --> 00:31:35.322
They what they do fear is the moving goalposts, the arbitrary leadership and being blamed for broken systems.
00:31:36.589 --> 00:31:41.222
that one hundred percent like operational safety, psychological safety.
00:31:41.222 --> 00:31:48.056
From my aspect of it means clear SOPs, well-defined goals, predictable leadership.
00:31:48.056 --> 00:31:55.556
Imagine that transparent metrics and the freedom to point out process flaws without fear of retaliation.
00:31:55.556 --> 00:31:57.355
Yes, that's psychological safety.
00:31:57.355 --> 00:31:59.155
It's not fluffy unicorns.
00:31:59.155 --> 00:32:06.222
No. And if you hired them for specific expertise, you can't get mad at them when they use it to ask you a question.
00:32:06.222 --> 00:32:07.389
One hundred percent.
00:32:07.389 --> 00:32:08.955
One hundred percent.
00:32:08.955 --> 00:32:09.755
Um, something else.
00:32:09.755 --> 00:32:13.022
Functional tooling and hoop free procedures over shiny trinkets.
00:32:13.022 --> 00:32:15.056
Modern modern operators.
00:32:15.056 --> 00:32:18.289
Like I don't want overpriced trinkets.
00:32:18.289 --> 00:32:20.322
I don't need shiny new software apps.
00:32:20.322 --> 00:32:23.322
Don't bring me ten new pieces of software each week.
00:32:23.322 --> 00:32:26.355
I don't want high end gizmos just for show.
00:32:26.355 --> 00:32:29.123
I want stuff that works.
00:32:29.123 --> 00:32:32.722
Give me the machines and the software that is proven to work.
00:32:32.722 --> 00:32:33.423
It's why.
00:32:33.423 --> 00:32:39.190
Like on the podcasting side of our business, we are not that leading edge.
00:32:39.190 --> 00:32:40.455
We're just behind it.
00:32:40.455 --> 00:32:41.222
Yes.
00:32:41.222 --> 00:32:48.322
I want stuff that I know is going to work reliably day in and day out.
00:32:48.322 --> 00:32:54.623
Um, the last thing with the two last things that I want to talk about with that a, a clear career path.
00:32:54.623 --> 00:33:03.990
Look, you hire someone and there might be one career path and it may change because once again, you like, as with any relationship, people change with time.
00:33:03.990 --> 00:33:05.923
Like their experience changes with time.
00:33:05.923 --> 00:33:08.123
Your knowledge of them changes with time.
00:33:08.123 --> 00:33:16.322
But if I feel trapped in a seat, yes, I'm looking because the only way to get that promotion is to leave.
00:33:16.322 --> 00:33:17.255
Most places.
00:33:17.255 --> 00:33:25.655
Where I left it was because of a bad bosses and b I had nowhere to go and nothing to do.
00:33:25.655 --> 00:33:30.822
So if there's a trajectory and once again, not everyone's a leader.
00:33:30.822 --> 00:33:33.355
So don't think that this is leading their department.
00:33:33.355 --> 00:33:38.056
What it could be is it could be a more technical move in a different department.
00:33:38.056 --> 00:33:41.722
Yes, that that's a promotion one hundred percent.
00:33:41.722 --> 00:33:43.389
It doesn't need to be a leadership role.
00:33:43.389 --> 00:33:51.056
And I would say be honest about, you know, we we know that people on average change every two, three to five years.
00:33:51.056 --> 00:33:54.355
So you don't need to tell them what thirty years at your company looks like.
00:33:54.355 --> 00:33:57.755
You can tell them what three to five looks like scares the hell out of them.
00:33:57.755 --> 00:33:58.155
It does.
00:33:58.155 --> 00:34:00.855
But the other part, like you don't even know what it's gonna look like.
00:34:00.855 --> 00:34:03.990
So stop lying to yourself when you're like, this is what, thirty years?
00:34:03.990 --> 00:34:04.855
Whatever.
00:34:04.855 --> 00:34:09.923
So this is what, as entrepreneurs, come on, half of us can barely get to like six months ahead.
00:34:09.923 --> 00:34:12.822
So like, tell them what two to three years looks like.
00:34:12.822 --> 00:34:14.123
This is what our trajectory is.
00:34:14.123 --> 00:34:15.956
This is the direction that we're growing.
00:34:15.956 --> 00:34:23.690
You know, we may not completely know what's going to happen, but we do know that these are four things that we're always going to make sure that we do with our employees.
00:34:23.690 --> 00:34:25.423
Part of them is around training.
00:34:25.423 --> 00:34:28.722
Part of them is around, you know, career pathing, and here's where you could go.
00:34:28.722 --> 00:34:33.822
But know that we're a small business and things could change, but just be realistic.
00:34:33.822 --> 00:34:36.190
That seems around mission and values, doesn't it?
00:34:36.190 --> 00:34:36.456
Huh?
00:34:36.456 --> 00:34:37.023
And clarity.
00:34:37.023 --> 00:34:37.990
Consistency and care.
00:34:37.990 --> 00:34:39.822
Just tell people.
00:34:39.822 --> 00:34:47.522
And if you don't know, be honest, because there are some people that would love to work for people that are just honest and say, you know, this is where I think we're going, but I'm not sure.
00:34:47.522 --> 00:34:47.789
Sure.
00:34:47.789 --> 00:34:48.989
It could completely change.
00:34:48.989 --> 00:34:49.722
We're a startup.
00:34:49.722 --> 00:34:50.722
Tell people you're a startup.
00:34:50.722 --> 00:34:52.422
If you're a startup, don't lie to them.
00:34:53.489 --> 00:34:55.322
It gets really old, really fast.
00:34:55.322 --> 00:34:58.289
So let's talk about the operational purpose and path here.
00:34:58.289 --> 00:35:00.690
To me, hard work made achievable is awesome.
00:35:00.690 --> 00:35:01.722
High performers.
00:35:01.722 --> 00:35:04.289
They want hard, meaningful challenges.
00:35:04.289 --> 00:35:06.489
Yes, they do not want fluff.
00:35:06.489 --> 00:35:07.722
They do not want babysitting.
00:35:07.722 --> 00:35:19.255
Give them difficult, complex problems to solve and they will love you for it, but actively do everything in your power to make execution easier by removing friction, broken tools, and administrative bloat.
00:35:19.255 --> 00:35:26.690
I see it in so many cases where high performers are working and administrative is like, hey, we're going to do this also.
00:35:26.690 --> 00:35:32.190
And suddenly, I mean, it throws a huge wrench in what they're doing, and it makes them go backwards.
00:35:32.190 --> 00:35:38.255
If you can show that, hey, we need to do this because it creates an issue that's bigger down the line.
00:35:38.255 --> 00:35:40.955
Most high performers will accept that.
00:35:40.955 --> 00:35:41.855
Just explain it.
00:35:41.855 --> 00:35:42.755
Just explain it.
00:35:42.755 --> 00:35:44.855
Don't just be like, hey, you need to do the thing now.
00:35:44.855 --> 00:35:48.289
You need to do twenty minutes more work every hour because there.
00:35:48.289 --> 00:35:50.989
No, the other thing is show them a reason to work.
00:35:50.989 --> 00:35:53.055
Give them a clear, documented path forward.
00:35:53.055 --> 00:35:54.589
People don't just want a job.
00:35:54.589 --> 00:36:00.555
They want an environment where a. Their work drives clear progress and personal growth.
00:36:00.555 --> 00:36:04.389
Help them learn if they feel like they're growing awesome.
00:36:04.389 --> 00:36:11.255
The last thing that I want to talk about kill the they're lucky to have work mentality.
00:36:11.255 --> 00:36:14.355
I have worked for so many people that, well, they're lucky to have a job.
00:36:14.355 --> 00:36:15.655
No, no they're not.
00:36:15.655 --> 00:36:22.189
Because the thing that I love is the same people that say they're lucky to have a job says no one wants to work.
00:36:22.189 --> 00:36:24.555
And like, it's like, which one is it?
00:36:24.555 --> 00:36:26.089
These are contradictory statements.
00:36:26.089 --> 00:36:26.789
Exactly.
00:36:26.789 --> 00:36:28.322
You you can't.
00:36:28.322 --> 00:36:33.955
So don't be the arrogant owner who acts like employees should be bowing down for a paycheck.
00:36:33.955 --> 00:36:37.255
Like, don't ham me, don't smug me smugly.
00:36:37.255 --> 00:36:41.355
Hand me my paycheck and be like, you're lucky to get this this week.
00:36:41.355 --> 00:36:46.922
No. That mindset sends your absolute top talent sprinting towards the door.
00:36:46.922 --> 00:36:47.489
Yeah.
00:36:47.489 --> 00:36:50.355
For competitors who are going to be like, come on in.
00:36:50.355 --> 00:36:50.555
Yeah.
00:36:50.555 --> 00:36:51.789
Why doesn't anybody want to stay here?
00:36:51.789 --> 00:36:53.789
You're gonna stop saying nobody wants to work here.
00:36:53.789 --> 00:36:56.155
Work anymore to like, why isn't anybody staying?
00:36:56.155 --> 00:36:57.689
Yeah, you're being a jerk.
00:36:57.689 --> 00:37:04.189
Arrogance repels a-players operational support and high expectations retain them.
00:37:04.189 --> 00:37:06.922
And it truly is.
00:37:06.922 --> 00:37:14.589
Guess who you're left with once you're high performers have left besides you, then nobody wants to work here anymore.
00:37:14.589 --> 00:37:15.089
People.
00:37:15.089 --> 00:37:16.055
Yeah.
00:37:16.055 --> 00:37:21.889
Uh, this is an interesting point that I wanted to both talk about the wage versus value debate.
00:37:21.889 --> 00:37:23.455
We hear this all the time.
00:37:23.455 --> 00:37:32.622
Is the labor issue really about money or are candidates rejecting bad management, lack of autonomy, like toxic flex, like what's the issue?
00:37:32.622 --> 00:37:35.622
Is it wages or is it jerks?
00:37:36.755 --> 00:37:39.755
I think leaders get into trouble when we make it an either or.
00:37:39.755 --> 00:37:43.055
I agree because it is about money and it is about management.
00:37:43.055 --> 00:37:47.355
And really it's about whether the employee believes the company is telling the truth.
00:37:47.355 --> 00:37:49.489
Oh, that's beautifully put.
00:37:49.489 --> 00:37:51.155
Pay is the first credibility test.
00:37:51.155 --> 00:37:55.255
But I mean what am I walking into is the next one.
00:37:55.255 --> 00:37:57.689
So like they're they're programming partners.
00:37:57.689 --> 00:37:58.055
Yeah.
00:37:58.055 --> 00:37:58.622
Pay to me.
00:37:58.622 --> 00:37:59.855
Pay gets them in the door.
00:37:59.855 --> 00:38:00.822
Systems and cultures.
00:38:00.822 --> 00:38:01.422
Keep them there.
00:38:01.422 --> 00:38:01.789
Yeah.
00:38:01.789 --> 00:38:03.455
And keep them working hard for you.
00:38:03.455 --> 00:38:09.355
That's, I mean, if you pay top dollar but run the shitshow shitshow circus.
00:38:09.355 --> 00:38:09.855
Yeah.
00:38:09.855 --> 00:38:10.822
Guess what?
00:38:10.822 --> 00:38:20.255
You're you're gonna end up with a highly paid, miserable employees who once again still haven't taken down open to work out of their LinkedIn.
00:38:20.255 --> 00:38:24.922
Uh, what about the candidate ghosting versus employer ghosting?
00:38:24.922 --> 00:38:25.722
like.
00:38:25.722 --> 00:38:33.522
And I love how dating terms have worked their way into to like job hunting because I mean, once again, there's so many parallels to this.
00:38:33.522 --> 00:38:36.989
Yeah, that first date is an interview no matter what you think.
00:38:36.989 --> 00:38:38.322
Yeah, it truly is.
00:38:38.322 --> 00:38:43.289
So like to me, owners complain constantly about candidates ghosting interviews.
00:38:43.289 --> 00:38:48.055
But then once again, our companies ghosting applicants, you know?
00:38:48.055 --> 00:38:49.255
Yeah.
00:38:49.255 --> 00:38:51.389
I mean, I don't love ghosting from either side.
00:38:51.389 --> 00:38:52.555
No. At all.
00:38:52.555 --> 00:38:56.655
I mean, but I do think employers need to be careful about acting shocked by behavior.
00:38:56.655 --> 00:39:05.389
They help normalize because most, like you said it employers, we did it because for years candidates have applied into black holes.
00:39:05.389 --> 00:39:09.155
They sent resumes, they prepared for interviews and they heard nothing.
00:39:09.155 --> 00:39:11.689
So I mean, that's that's the problem.
00:39:11.689 --> 00:39:13.922
That's, I think we it's a created thing.
00:39:13.922 --> 00:39:15.489
So now you got no closure, no update.
00:39:15.489 --> 00:39:15.922
No thank you.
00:39:15.922 --> 00:39:17.055
We're moving in another direction.
00:39:17.055 --> 00:39:19.455
Just like, hey, I interviewed or hey, I sent my resume.
00:39:19.455 --> 00:39:21.089
Hey, I sent nothing.
00:39:21.089 --> 00:39:28.255
What I found interesting about that is HR for so long used the excuse of well, if we tell them something, it could be used against us.
00:39:28.255 --> 00:39:29.589
We're picking another candidate.
00:39:29.589 --> 00:39:30.189
Or you didn't.
00:39:30.189 --> 00:39:31.022
You're not qualified.
00:39:31.022 --> 00:39:31.889
No you're not.
00:39:31.889 --> 00:39:32.955
No is okay.
00:39:32.955 --> 00:39:33.255
Right?
00:39:33.255 --> 00:39:33.655
Yeah.
00:39:33.655 --> 00:39:38.955
And I found it so interesting because to me it is just a low respect hiring system.
00:39:38.955 --> 00:39:44.255
I mean, once again, the problem is, is the person that isn't the fit for today's job.
00:39:44.255 --> 00:39:47.589
Maybe maybe the fit for the job that you have in six months.
00:39:47.589 --> 00:39:48.089
Exactly.
00:39:48.089 --> 00:39:54.622
And you want people who were potentially a culture fit but weren't a skill fit for the specific job you were looking at reapplying.
00:39:54.622 --> 00:39:59.855
So if you talk to them and say, hey, you're not a fit right now, but we would love for you to apply later.
00:39:59.855 --> 00:40:01.189
Yeah.
00:40:01.189 --> 00:40:09.889
Have you seen the unicorn postings where like, hey, we want someone that does marketing, sales, accounting operations and can clean the toilets.
00:40:09.889 --> 00:40:10.455
Yeah.
00:40:12.789 --> 00:40:13.389
Yes.
00:40:13.389 --> 00:40:14.989
What's your take all the time?
00:40:14.989 --> 00:40:23.022
So do I, so do I. I love searching job ads just for this reason because I'm like, oh, wow.
00:40:23.022 --> 00:40:24.322
Yeah! Rock star ninja.
00:40:24.322 --> 00:40:25.389
We want a rock star Ninja.
00:40:25.389 --> 00:40:26.755
The rock star ninja unicorn.
00:40:26.755 --> 00:40:30.755
Yes! That tells me the business doesn't know what they need.
00:40:30.755 --> 00:40:33.189
No, it sounds fun and scrappy.
00:40:33.189 --> 00:40:34.855
Like, yeah, we're really entrepreneurial.
00:40:34.855 --> 00:40:35.822
We need all of these things.
00:40:35.822 --> 00:40:36.989
We need you to be this really.
00:40:36.989 --> 00:40:39.289
Company has no clarity right now.
00:40:39.289 --> 00:40:40.455
It's not flexibility.
00:40:40.455 --> 00:40:44.822
No. Um, I like when I see wears many hats.
00:40:44.822 --> 00:40:49.455
It's code for we do not have one documented SOP in the entire building.
00:40:49.455 --> 00:40:53.189
And we expect you to save us from all of our operational debt.
00:40:53.189 --> 00:40:53.522
Yes.
00:40:53.522 --> 00:40:58.989
In your first thirty days, you were either going to be crying or you're going to be running one or the other.
00:40:58.989 --> 00:40:59.955
Yeah.
00:40:59.955 --> 00:41:02.189
You're just going to add one more thing to the resume here.
00:41:02.189 --> 00:41:04.355
That's that's all that's all you're gonna have.
00:41:04.355 --> 00:41:08.122
Uh, for me, key takeaways, some actionable stuff today.
00:41:08.122 --> 00:41:16.722
Audit, audit your hiring bait, look at your compensation and roll benefits through the lens of modern talent.
00:41:16.722 --> 00:41:20.355
Stop fishing for sharks using minnows from the nineteen fifties.
00:41:20.355 --> 00:41:23.655
clarity, consistency and care in your hiring and onboarding process.
00:41:23.655 --> 00:41:30.455
So I would say, you know, we're going to take a look in the mirror and ask ourselves, are we really modeling what we want to see from our team members?
00:41:30.455 --> 00:41:32.189
Ghosters get ghosted.
00:41:32.189 --> 00:41:34.355
Unclear expectations equals unclear outcomes.
00:41:34.355 --> 00:41:36.055
So clarity, consistency and care.
00:41:36.055 --> 00:41:37.589
And you're hiring and onboarding.
00:41:37.589 --> 00:41:45.689
You got less than twenty four hours to treat top applicants with the exact same urgency as a high value sales lead.
00:41:45.689 --> 00:41:46.955
Because it is.
00:41:46.955 --> 00:41:47.289
Yes.
00:41:47.289 --> 00:41:53.055
I'm going to reinforce your hiring bait and say audit your pay against current reality, right?
00:41:53.055 --> 00:41:55.789
Benchmark your salary against the current market data.
00:41:55.789 --> 00:41:56.289
All right.
00:41:56.289 --> 00:41:58.789
Not what you paid for years ago.
00:41:58.789 --> 00:42:06.622
Pay fairly, adjust and reduce the operational scope of the role and post the freaking range of salary.
00:42:06.622 --> 00:42:09.189
I want to I want to dip to that.
00:42:09.189 --> 00:42:09.422
Yes.
00:42:09.422 --> 00:42:13.622
What's interesting about that is I just got a notification from the county.
00:42:13.622 --> 00:42:17.255
My property tax is going up because my property value went up.
00:42:17.255 --> 00:42:17.722
Yes.
00:42:17.722 --> 00:42:19.922
And I am like, no one asked me, right?
00:42:19.922 --> 00:42:22.322
And I'm like, but I looked at it and I'm like, what?
00:42:22.322 --> 00:42:23.289
What the hell is this?
00:42:23.289 --> 00:42:23.955
Uh huh.
00:42:23.955 --> 00:42:33.422
So I went online and I looked at, I'm like, there's no way I am going to write a strongly worded letter to the, the auditor's office and be like, you need to undo this.
00:42:33.422 --> 00:42:37.322
And then I looked at comparable values in the neighborhood and I'm like, damn it.
00:42:37.322 --> 00:42:38.189
Yeah.
00:42:38.189 --> 00:42:43.355
Um, so same do the same thing when you go to pay people.
00:42:43.355 --> 00:42:45.989
Lastly, kill the dump truck video onboarding.
00:42:45.989 --> 00:42:46.789
Yes.
00:42:46.789 --> 00:42:48.955
Uh, don't put people in front of the computer.
00:42:48.955 --> 00:42:55.855
I mean, unless you have to for regulatory reasons, like human connect, like, like, don't make that the first thing.
00:42:55.855 --> 00:42:57.189
At least say hi to people, right?
00:42:57.189 --> 00:42:57.589
Yes.
00:42:57.589 --> 00:43:07.222
Have them connect with a human in your company as much as you can, other than just parading them around the office like a new unicorn.
00:43:07.222 --> 00:43:07.722
Yes.
00:43:07.722 --> 00:43:08.989
Um. Just doesn't work.
00:43:08.989 --> 00:43:12.589
Uh, should you ever rehire an employee who quit and wants to come back.
00:43:12.589 --> 00:43:13.755
The old boomerang.
00:43:13.755 --> 00:43:18.355
Oh, do not mistake familiarity as a shortcut for fit.
00:43:18.355 --> 00:43:25.055
So it is rare that you rehire only if you're clear on why and how they left and what has changed.
00:43:25.055 --> 00:43:29.655
And that person was never a culture killer if they were a culture killer, don't even think about it.
00:43:29.655 --> 00:43:33.122
So I mean good terms and they fit fit operational terms.
00:43:33.122 --> 00:43:33.689
Absolutely.
00:43:33.689 --> 00:43:38.922
If if they say, hey, I want to come back and you're hiring for their job, then there's a chance.
00:43:38.922 --> 00:43:45.289
But otherwise, no. Another thing I would say too, is if they completely left your industry to do something else and they realized they didn't want to do that, they want to come back.
00:43:45.289 --> 00:43:47.322
That to me is an easy one.
00:43:47.322 --> 00:43:54.955
But if they left you to go to a competitor and they blew everything up on the way out, don't worry, hire them because we're just going to have an HR conversation later on.
00:43:54.955 --> 00:43:58.722
You're gonna have to call in a consultant and we're gonna have to undo the mess.
00:44:00.122 --> 00:44:01.122
Cover letters?
00:44:01.122 --> 00:44:01.822
Yep.
00:44:01.822 --> 00:44:03.022
Still do them.
00:44:03.022 --> 00:44:16.989
They're mostly outdated unless you make the ask specific and useful, which is, I know for a lot of people right now is really challenging because I'm having people that are in the market that are for higher level jobs, getting really frustrated because they're like, I have to rewrite my resume every time I'm applying for a job.
00:44:16.989 --> 00:44:20.455
I'm like, yeah, for for sea level positions, you have to.
00:44:20.455 --> 00:44:20.755
Yeah.
00:44:20.755 --> 00:44:21.755
So no, don't do it.
00:44:21.755 --> 00:44:24.022
If you're, if you're talking entry level mid market.
00:44:24.022 --> 00:44:24.789
Mhm.
00:44:24.789 --> 00:44:28.589
If anything, friend, people on LinkedIn or send a message.
00:44:28.589 --> 00:44:30.155
Yes, I see that.
00:44:30.155 --> 00:44:36.389
The other thing that I would say is I am perfectly happy to ask two or three very specific questions that you can have.
00:44:36.389 --> 00:44:39.322
If you want to see how they write, then put that.
00:44:39.322 --> 00:44:39.822
Yeah.
00:44:39.822 --> 00:44:45.122
I mean, I'm okay with that type of work, but don't don't give them the, hey, we'd love to see your cover letter.
00:44:45.122 --> 00:44:51.189
Um, because once again, all that is going to be is them slathering on chapstick and puckering up.
00:44:51.189 --> 00:44:52.522
Yeah, it's just a round file.
00:44:52.522 --> 00:44:53.522
You don't need to deal with it.
00:44:53.522 --> 00:45:01.222
No, no. Uh, single worst phrase or red flag that you can put in a job posting.
00:45:01.222 --> 00:45:03.089
Listen to me, people.
00:45:03.089 --> 00:45:04.922
It's two phrases.
00:45:04.922 --> 00:45:08.189
Wear many hats and thrive in a fast paced environment.
00:45:09.689 --> 00:45:11.589
Don't do those.
00:45:15.089 --> 00:45:16.155
For me.
00:45:16.155 --> 00:45:23.689
Like it's tough because I the ones that I see that are the red flags to me, obviously the family one.
00:45:23.689 --> 00:45:24.122
Yeah.
00:45:24.122 --> 00:45:28.255
Um, must thrive under pressure or fast paced.
00:45:28.255 --> 00:45:31.722
Both of those I translate to we redline our team.
00:45:31.722 --> 00:45:40.055
We have no SOPs and we will blame you when the workload collapses on your head because you are the FNG and it's your fault.
00:45:40.055 --> 00:45:46.722
The only time must thrive under pressure should be in a job posting is if you're like dispatch for police and EMS.
00:45:46.722 --> 00:45:48.722
Yeah, that you should thrive under pressure.
00:45:48.722 --> 00:45:49.655
Yeah.
00:45:49.655 --> 00:46:05.789
Um, the, the funny thing about that is, is, is when you look at that, that is an excellent segue because we are going to talk about like the emotional side of things in a couple of episodes next week, we're going to get really nasty.
00:46:05.789 --> 00:46:10.089
We are yes, we are talking about the Pip.
00:46:10.089 --> 00:46:11.855
Oh, yes.
00:46:11.855 --> 00:46:14.055
Not Gladys Knight and her pips.
00:46:14.055 --> 00:46:15.455
No, the actual pips.
00:46:15.455 --> 00:46:26.055
We are talking performance improvement plans, the performance improvement plan, because people like I'm going to say this directly to the camera.
00:46:26.055 --> 00:46:28.689
Y'all done lost the plot on the pip.
00:46:28.689 --> 00:46:31.155
That's all there is to it.
00:46:31.155 --> 00:46:33.089
I get violently angry.
00:46:33.089 --> 00:46:34.655
Yes.
00:46:34.655 --> 00:46:38.189
So if you see me in a helmet for the next episode, you know why?
00:46:38.189 --> 00:46:40.955
Uh, that all being said, do us a favor.
00:46:40.955 --> 00:46:43.955
Go to business podcast dot com.
00:46:43.955 --> 00:46:47.889
Also, take care of yourself if you can take care of someone else too.
00:46:47.889 --> 00:46:50.755
We will see you very, very soon.