we’re scared of another author and also do we hate this? - outlander by diana galbaldon

WEBVTT
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:02.080
I love bagpipes.
00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:02.720
Same.
00:00:02.959 --> 00:00:10.480
Hello and welcome to Talk Lit Get Hit, a podcast where we read viral books the internet won't shut up about and rate them lit or shit.
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:18.879
We're your hosts Bridget and Laura, lovers of sad girl fiction and tragic endings, fearers of smut, urban fantasy, and the Who Did This To You trope.
00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:24.719
Join us as we pick apart all the books the internet loves and embark on a journey to figure out why.
00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:35.280
Sing me a song of a podcast that is traveling back in time to the year 1743 for a tale of passion, adventure, clan politics, and trout fishing.
00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:43.119
This month we're reading the epic romance Outlander by Diana Gabaldone.
00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:44.560
Bridget, hello, hello.
00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:45.920
Hello, hello.
00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:48.159
Gabaldone.
00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:49.039
Is it?
00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:49.759
I don't know.
00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:51.119
It's not Cabaldon.
00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:52.240
We've learned that.
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:55.039
We've marginally improved.
00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:55.840
Yeah.
00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:57.759
How has your month been?
00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:02.560
My month has been quite quiet, but quietly busy.
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:06.640
Not doing much, just doing some gardening, doing some reading.
00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:08.400
I went to see Audrey Hobbit.
00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:08.640
Oh.
00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:10.480
This show had my perfect formula.
00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:12.159
First of all, no support act.
00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:13.200
Okay, stunning.
00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:16.079
Second of all, it went for about 45 minutes.
00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:16.799
Good.
00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:17.200
Good.
00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:18.239
She's only got one album.
00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:18.640
Okay.
00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:19.439
She played the hit.
00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:20.719
She did all she could.
00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:23.840
And that's all I want anyone to do other than Taylor Swift.
00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:25.680
I don't want anyone else to go longer than that.
00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:28.079
I was back to Toowomba by about 11.
00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:28.640
Oh, great.
00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:29.439
Amazing.
00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:30.799
It was on a Saturday night.
00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:31.359
Tick.
00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:31.680
What?
00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:35.680
And the last tick, she played her biggest and best song twice.
00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:37.120
Once with phones.
00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:38.959
And then she played it as an encore.
00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:39.760
No phones.
00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:40.319
Oh.
00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:42.560
Did you catch anyone flouting the rules?
00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:44.560
Not in person, but I did see it on TikTok.
00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:46.799
It's so great to have a no phone song.
00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:49.840
And everyone's in the comments like, you've got your phone out, babe.
00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:52.079
If no phone, no phone.
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:53.680
So that was great.
00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:56.799
Although I do have to end my monthly catch-up on a downer.
00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:58.719
Very sad news, everybody.
00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:04.799
It has been announced that Emily in Paris is not going to be continuing after the sixth and final season.
00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:06.719
Oh my god, I'm so sad.
00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:10.000
Poor one out for Bridget.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:11.919
I hate this show and I love this show.
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.599
And it's gonna end and I don't know what what's next for me.
00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:17.919
She's just been your constant over these last few years.
00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:20.960
It's been like my, I don't know, my rock.
00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:25.280
The rock that holds me up and the rock that smashes me down.
00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:27.280
Is she still in Paris?
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:34.159
No, she is, but the little teaser that I've seen, uh, she'll be in Greece.
00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:38.000
The last season, for some reason, she did spend mostly in Italy.
00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:40.879
Yeah, and then she's gonna go to Greece because she's chasing.
00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:44.639
I mean, spoiler alert, but she's chasing Gabrielle.
00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:46.719
Still, yeah, still crazy.
00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:49.039
That's some that's been She's been weaving around in.
00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.240
I think this might be the time they finally interweave.
00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:53.599
Imagine if they didn't.
00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:55.759
I'll flip a table.
00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:57.759
How's your month been?
00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:59.280
My month's been pretty great.
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:02.560
It's been a month of eating, it's been an expensive month.
00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:04.960
You know, peaks and troughs, peaks and troughs.
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:12.479
I took my car to the mechanic to get it serviced, which, you know, anyone with a car knows is just like giving away money for free.
00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:13.759
Yeah, what do they even do?
00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:14.400
I don't know.
00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:16.319
Spin the tires with their finger, maybe?
00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:19.280
Do like a grease lightning film clip or something.
00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:21.680
I couldn't tell you, but it cost a lot of money.
00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:25.759
Upside is I saw one of the best double rainbows I've ever seen.
00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:26.879
So that was quite nice.
00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:28.719
That's my husband's birthday.
00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:35.280
So we did quite a bit of eating and drinking around that point in time, so that was stunning.
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:42.560
We did go on a very quick trip to New Zealand for a family thing and also did uh quite a bit of eating while we were there.
00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:51.840
Um, I think visitors and locals of New Zealand alike can attest to the quality of the meat pies on that hallowed land.
00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:54.000
And so I did have a really good one.
00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:56.159
It was from this place called Patrick's Pies.
00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:00.000
It's like one of the places you must go.
00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:02.000
Well, I mean, what else would you go there for?
00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:02.400
Yeah.
00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:05.520
Genuinely, sometimes that is what I'm going there for.
00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:10.560
And it was pork, mushroom, cheese, and caramelized onion, which was pretty delicious.
00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:13.520
Had a mince and cheese, which is, you know, just the classic.
00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:14.960
It's like your barometer.
00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:17.199
I had a lovely day yesterday with my mum.
00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.040
We had a massage and got our nails done and had lunch with my grandmas.
00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:27.920
And probably the last fun thing that I did this month, the very last, the one and only only.
00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:37.439
Um, I went to a recycled bead workshop with my friend Dania, and that was one of the DIY Daisy workshops.
00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:43.199
So all of the beads are collected from like op shops or harvested from I love that word so much.
00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.560
That's the word she uses, and I'm always like, ooh, science at play.
00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:47.279
Yeah.
00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:51.519
But like harvested from necklaces that she bought secondhand or whatnot.
00:04:51.600 --> 00:05:06.000
So I made a necklace that I really like, but then when I took it home, I was like, oh, it's exactly the same as this other necklace that I have, which is like obviously it's not exactly the same because of secondhand beads, but the vibes, it is incredibly similar.
00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:11.759
They are because when you sent me the one you made, I was like, that is a Laura necklace through and through.
00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:13.920
And then you were like, Oh yeah, I've got the exact same one.
00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:14.959
I was like, oh yeah.
00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:19.120
Like when they're together, it's kind of hard to tell where one necklace ends on the other.
00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:20.959
It's actually wild.
00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:23.199
Yeah, it's all my favorite colours.
00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:25.839
It's got the blue, the brown, a little pop of pink.
00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.519
So oh well, I'm consistent.
00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:28.639
That is true.
00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:29.680
What about reading?
00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:30.959
Have you had a good reading month?
00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:34.399
Squeezed around the edges of this colossus of a book.
00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:34.959
Oh.
00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:40.959
Yeah, actually, I've had quite a few really good ones because I've been DNFing.
00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.120
I'm just flying through banger after banger.
00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:45.519
The first one is Lonely Mouth by Jacqueline Millet.
00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:48.560
That's an ARC that we received sometime last year.
00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:49.839
Yeah, it's been a while.
00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:50.240
Yeah.
00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:52.240
And I'm sad that I put it off for so long.
00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:52.959
It was so good.
00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:57.360
Set in Sydney, there's grief, sisters, eating disorders.
00:05:57.759 --> 00:05:58.800
Ticked all the boxes.
00:05:58.959 --> 00:05:59.600
The big three.
00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:00.879
She works at a restaurant.
00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:04.959
Someone asked us for more hospitality fiction.
00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:06.959
Like, I think when we did the specific book rec.
00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:07.439
Yes.
00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:08.399
So that might be why.
00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:08.959
Well, yeah.
00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:10.399
Now we will have one, maybe.
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:11.199
Fantastic.
00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:13.759
Second book I read was Dominion by Addie E.
00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:15.120
Kitchens, and this was great.
00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:18.160
This was set in Southern America.
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:28.240
Very religious family, talking about men doing bad things and the women who love them and stand by them and, you know, try to support them even when maybe they shouldn't.
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.959
Uh Dominicana by Angie Cruz.
00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:40.879
This story is about a young girl from the Dominican Republic who is married off to a man who's quite a lot older than her, and she moves to the United States, lives in New York.
00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:44.639
The hopes of the family are sort of resting on her to make a new life for them.
00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:51.199
Another lovely book I read was Memorial Days by Geraldine Brooks, and this was very sad.
00:06:51.519 --> 00:07:12.000
This is a memoir about a woman who's lost her husband unexpectedly, and she takes a trip to a really remote place to grieve, basically, because she's been pushing through with demands of life and her work and her family, and she's just taken this time to sit in her grief, and it was beautiful and very, very upsetting.
00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:15.839
I read a graphic novel by Lee Lai called Canon.
00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:17.600
This was so good.
00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:18.480
Really?
00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:19.759
Yes, so good.
00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:32.079
It's about two young, queer Asian females living in Canada, and it just talks about the pressures of life and family and mental health and trying to find peace and stillness, like who you are as a person.
00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:32.879
It was so good.
00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:39.920
Okay, I'm just looking at it now, and I have put this on my two-read list on like Libya or whatever, because I saw the cover and thought fantastic.
00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:41.920
So consider me a treat.
00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:50.879
Another great book I read was Moderation by Elaine Castillo, and this is about a woman who works in content moderation for a site.
00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:58.720
I think a little bit like Reddit, and then she gets offered a job in a virtual reality sort of social media escape.
00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:03.040
And it sort of turned into a little bit of a like a literary fiction love story.
00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:03.680
Ooh.
00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:05.759
And it was not what I expected.
00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:07.680
I expected it to be boring, and it was great.
00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:16.000
And the last book I read was Catalina by Carla Corneo Villa Vicencio, and this was very short, it was probably only like 250 pages.
00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.439
Uh, it reminded me of The Idiot by Elif Batumen.
00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:20.000
Your fave.
00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:21.040
My fave.
00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:31.279
It was about an undocumented American girl who was at Harvard, and it was like quite jaunty and silly at the same time as being quite sad.
00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:31.920
Perfect.
00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:37.679
Plenty more books uh for me to finish in six months' time and say, I finally read a Bridget book.
00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:45.440
Speaking of, uh two books that I did read that I would classify as Bridget books were I Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie Sue.
00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:49.759
This was so much funnier and so much better than I thought it would be.
00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:50.399
Same.
00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:53.039
Even having heard you say the very same thing.
00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:58.159
I listened to some of the audiobook as well, and I would highly recommend that experience.
00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:05.840
The accents and the kind of tone that the narrator put on for her parents in particular was so funny.
00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:10.480
Like, I don't think I can remember cracking up in a book in so long, but they were hilarious.
00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:11.440
And I also cried.
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.440
Also, since we last recorded, I have finally read The God of Small Things.
00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:19.440
This was yeah, a true work of art.
00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:29.200
There's so many things about this book that kind of flawed me, but just her use of language and the creativity with which she writes was so astonishing to me.
00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:40.320
It kind of reminded me of being 14 or 15, however old I was when I first read Cloud Street and was coming across all of these sort of unconventional, semi-made-up, like colloquial words.
00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:45.919
I think in Cloud Street there's no quotation marks, dialogue is like quite fluid.
00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:59.759
And I think the way that Randutty Roy wrote from the perspective of a child and like capitalized certain words and like described feelings was just so completely new to me and so spectacular.
00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:01.360
This book was devastating.
00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:02.000
Yeah.
00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:07.200
Not necessarily in the way that I expected it to be, which maybe made it all the more devastating.
00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:08.960
It was completely unsettling.
00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:10.720
Um, and I'm so glad to have read it.
00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:16.480
And then apart from that, I've really just been trotting around with the It Girl novels of the minute.
00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:21.279
I have burned my way through Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke.
00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:36.000
In case you've been living under a rock, this is a story that follows Natalie Heller Mills, an incredibly successful influencer who sells this like perfectly curated aesthetic of like a fundamentalist Christian life.
00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:41.039
She's at home making her own sourdough, homesteading, blah, blah, blah.
00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:51.519
Um, but she wakes up one day in a house that looks like hers with children that seem like hers, a husband that seems to be hers as well, except for the fact that none of them are.
00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:53.360
Something is slightly off.
00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:58.240
The novel traces the mystery of where the hell is she and what the heck has happened.
00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.200
And it's interspliced with like a then and now kind of thing.
00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:09.600
So you get this like tension of her rising fame coupled with the kind of bleak, true trad wife situation she's found herself in.
00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:12.720
It was juicy, it was easy to chug back.
00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:14.320
I had a good time reading it.
00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:17.519
I don't think there's anything wrong with me recommending this book.
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:22.879
I haven't read it yet, but I think I'm like 36th in line at the library, so I'm keen.
00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:27.039
I also read Strangers by Belle Burden, which I know that you also read.
00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:29.840
This was also similarly juicy.
00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:40.000
This is a memoir about the breakdown, like the very sudden, I should say, breakdown of a 20-year marriage and the kind of financial stress and emotional stress that comes after that.
00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:48.639
I did really enjoy this book, and I think that I really enjoyed it because it was a story from the perspective of someone whose life is so far removed from my own.
00:11:48.799 --> 00:12:04.320
So although I have seen plenty of criticism talking about like, oh boo-hoo, like, you know, you only have a couple million left, down from a few more, uh, it's just so far out of my realm of like understanding that it was juicy to read.
00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:11.519
It's not a book where I'm like learning about the world and like, you know, becoming a better person, but it was compelling, I would agree.
00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:22.080
Every month when we send out the voting for our book of the month, there's also a little box where listeners can submit requests for us to talk about anything else that takes their fancy.
00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:29.200
And more often than not, people ignore this box, and that's completely fine with us because we will talk about whatever we want whenever we want.
00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:30.960
So it's never stopped us before.
00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:34.399
This month, someone has asked us any skincare recs.
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.200
I really appreciated the toothpaste discussions.
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.440
Firstly, you can't know how much that means and how much that validates us.
00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:42.639
It's really tickled me.
00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:43.440
Yeah.
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:44.879
It's just so funny.
00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:47.360
Bridget's a glow with pride right now.
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:49.679
Do you have any skincare wrecks, Bridget?
00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:51.679
I am quite boring when it comes to skincare.
00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:55.600
I like to be told what to use and then I don't want to think about it ever again.
00:12:55.919 --> 00:13:00.240
But this is a product that if I don't use, I notice a big difference.
00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.480
So it is the Glow Exfoliator by GoTo Skincare.
00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:05.279
It's a toner.
00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:09.039
I mean, I don't really know anything about this, but I'm just gonna read to you what the website is telling me.
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:14.559
So it uses glycolic acid to hydrate the skin while removing dead skin cells.
00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:16.799
Improves overall skin tone and texture.
00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:18.559
And I went without it for like a year.
00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.240
I've recently started using it again, and I really like it.
00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:28.159
Another thing that I've been using also from GoTo is a hyaluronic acid called Much Plumper Skin.
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:31.279
And this is another thing that if I don't use, I really notice the difference.
00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.039
It just makes my skin feel more hydrated, I guess.
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:41.279
And I'm feeling like my skin is getting older, like more wrinkly.
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:44.399
So anything that makes me feel less wrinkly is good.
00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:44.960
Perfect.
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:45.759
How about you?
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.720
Yeah, I'm also really boring with my skincare.
00:13:48.960 --> 00:14:01.120
I yearn to be like a little vial slash tincture slash, you know, natural products girly, but my skin yearns for pharmaceutical products in the most hideous packaging possible.
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:06.799
I've tried, and I know it's probably like you've got to go through to get out, but I just I'm too vain.
00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.039
I did have really bad acne.
00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:14.480
A couple of years ago now, like I came off birth control and then like shit hit the fan, and it was the worst.
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.919
I threw everything I had at it, aka like all the wrong things.
00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:22.240
Like I was one step away from whipping out the Senives apricot scrub.
00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:23.440
Oh, yeah.
00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:25.600
And I think I made it so much worse.
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:35.039
So there are a couple of products that I've been using, some for a couple of years now, that are my go-to cheap pharmaceutical reliables.
00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:39.279
The first is the Cetophil Hydrating Foaming Cream Cleanser.
00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:42.960
And you can get this bad boy in a huge pump bottle.
00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:45.039
So it's fun for the whole family.
00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:51.600
This one has hydrating glycerin, soothing aloe vera, essential vitamin B3, and pro vitamin B5.
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:52.960
And it sounds good to me.
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:53.519
Yeah.
00:14:53.759 --> 00:15:03.039
I think the foaming aspect really gives me that squeaky, clean kind of feeling, but I don't feel like it's stripping me, which I think sometimes can be the case with foaming cleansers.
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:09.759
I mean, every dermatologist I went to, or like every doctor or like aesthetician or whatever, was like, you should use Cetophil.
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:12.159
And I was like, no, I won't.
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:13.039
It's too ugly.
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.039
And then, spoiler alert, yes, it works.
00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:15.759
It's worked.
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:16.879
I used to use that too.
00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:17.519
Yeah.
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:25.440
Another cleanser in the same vein that I think was maybe a little bit better for my super dry skin in winter was the QV ceramides cleanser.
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:29.600
Looks exactly the same, just has like purple instead of blue.
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:33.360
I think QV may be made in Australia if that floats your boat.
00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:37.600
They're both huge, they're both cheap as chips, um, and they work really well for me.
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:46.799
Recently, and I may need to backtrack this because I have only been using it for maybe like a month, but my skin was feeling really dry, so I tested this cream.
00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:48.320
It like comes in a tub.
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:50.559
It's another hideous pharmaceutical.
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:56.480
It's a French pharmacy brand that's popped up in Chemist Warehouse, and it's called Mixer, like M-I-X-A.
00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:10.399
And I originally bought this cream because I could not stop having searing hot showers and backs of my legs where the water was just like lashing them every day, were like so dry and so itchy, and I kept scratching them.
00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.399
This one was the mixer Panthanol Comfort Anti-Scratching Cream.
00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:14.879
Wow.
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:16.559
It was fine on my legs.
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:20.000
I'm not really a lotion girly, try as I may be, it's just too much work.
00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:29.519
But this is one of those slightly threatening creams that says it can be used on your face, body, and hands, which to me says no, that should not go anywhere near your face.
00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:30.000
Yes.
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.360
But one day my skin was so dry and I thought I'll give it a go.
00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.879
And I feel like it's been really fantastic for my skin.
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.919
It also has glycerin, it has omega 6 and 9, whatever those are.
00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:43.279
Yeah, the well-known ones.
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:44.879
The big dogs.
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:52.320
A bonus is that it comes in a huge tub, so I can feel like I'm a grandma using my like Pons cold cream or something like that.
00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:53.279
So it's good.
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:56.159
And then the last thing I would recommend is a sunscreen.
00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.120
It's the Hamilton SPF 50 everyday face cream.
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:01.120
It's Australian made and owned.
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:02.000
It's super cheap.
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.039
I just really like the way that this feels on my skin.
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:06.880
It feels almost like a balm.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.960
The product information says that it's non-greasy and a matte finish.
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:17.200
I don't really know about the non-greasy element because pretty much everything to do with my face is greasy.
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:18.079
I just be greasy.
00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:26.799
I can't remember the peanut butter, like craft maybe where it's like never oily, never dry.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:27.680
That's just not possible.
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:28.640
That's not true.
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:29.039
Yeah.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:31.039
I think sunscreen always greasy.
00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:31.519
Yes.
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:37.440
It kind of reminds me of I don't know if you ever used those Maybelline baby skin primers.
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:38.880
No, I don't think so.
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:39.839
That's the texture.
00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:42.160
If anyone out there, that's what it reminds me of.
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:42.720
So yeah.
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:44.880
Very happy to get that off my chest.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.240
At long last, someone has finally asked me.
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.480
And I think this is only the beginning.
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:50.960
Great.
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:53.599
This is your new career venture.
00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:54.480
Yes.
00:17:54.960 --> 00:18:00.400
Maybe I should do like get ready with me while we talk about our podcast books.
00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:12.240
I'm actually sorry to interrupt you, but I'm surprised it's taken so long for that exact phrase in that exact voice to make it on the podcast because we're constantly saying it, but I don't think it's ever been in an episode.
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:16.640
Get ready with me.
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:18.640
Come with me.
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:20.720
Do record an episode of the boat.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.799
I don't understand how we've never said a book.
00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:26.480
I was this close to saying it when we were recording earlier as well.
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:27.759
That's so funny.
00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:35.200
I have one more thing to tick off our admin list before we get into the episode.
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:46.079
And that is I have received some correspondence from a listener, and they have asked me a question about your goal setting sticker chart that you said at the start of the year.
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:47.440
Oh no.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.279
And they said to me, How's it going?
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:51.440
How's her goal setting going?
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:52.960
How are the stickers?
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:54.880
How are the star charts going?
00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:59.759
And I said, Look, I haven't heard about the star charts for a while, but I can't imagine they're going well.
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:07.599
And so I have been given a gift to give to you to encourage your goals.
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:08.559
Oh my god.
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.400
This is the highs and lows.
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:14.000
I've gone from betrayal to distrust to joy.
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:14.720
Pleasure.
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:17.119
So this is a goal setter sticker book.
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:21.680
It has 20 sheets of stickers to help you reach your goals.
00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:23.039
It is stunning.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:28.720
Um this is pretty much perfectly in talklet get hit colours as well.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:29.519
It is as well.
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:31.039
I know I thought the exact same thing.
00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:32.960
Little swirly design.
00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:35.359
What a thoughtful, oh my god.
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.720
760 plus individual stickers.
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:45.200
Oh, this cannot be as good for the listeners as it is for me, but if you could feast your eyes on these stickers, 760.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.200
We've got go date off kettlebells.
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:51.440
Well, you are a gym girly now.
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.359
I am a gym girly now.
00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:55.680
I have one or two calluses at most.
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:59.519
They do fall off if I wash dishes for too long, but I'm working on them.
00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:01.200
Wow.
00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:03.200
Well, look, it's not going great.
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:05.440
So this could not have come at a better time.
00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:05.839
Thank you.
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.119
Halfway through the year.
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.799
It's new year, new year.
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:09.519
Q3.
00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:10.240
Q3.
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:11.440
We we rebuild.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:12.400
We go, we get.
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:15.519
Thank you.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:19.599
So our theme of the month was time travel.
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:25.279
And I don't know about you, but this is a genre that I feel pretty resistant to.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:26.079
Yes.
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:28.640
I'm highly resistant to time travel, I think.
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:33.039
It's a genre that authors seem to be drawn to time and time again.
00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:37.200
And I thought we could take just a minute to reflect on why that may be.
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.839
I hope you have notes prepared because I have nothing to contribute here.
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.440
Because I mean, spoiler alert, I don't know why they're doing this.
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:46.960
I don't want to read about it.
00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:48.160
I hate it.
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:58.240
Well, having never written a piece of time travel literature, I can only make assumptions, but I think probably as a writer, it provides high-stakes tension.
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.039
You know, we've got the like fish out of water.
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:05.279
You know, I'm in the 17th century, I'm in the 18th century, I'm in the future.
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:07.680
Small girl in a big city.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:14.720
And then it sort of like writes itself with like the butterfly effect, or like it's made up tension.
00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:24.319
It's like easy to make up tension of like the juxtaposition between like Martin Girl in a feral Scottish world or like boy from the future in the past.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:26.880
I don't know why this is happening and I really don't like it.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:27.599
I love it.
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:35.440
Um, I'm and also those are the only examples I have because I have not read spoiler alert a lot of time travel literature.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:36.319
No, neither.
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:40.240
And I haven't enjoyed the few that I have read, I would say.
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:45.759
The only one that I have enjoyed, against all odds, I think, is Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut.
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:48.000
That's the only one that I could remember that I enjoyed.
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:55.920
It's hard because time travel literature just seems to be some sort of line in the sand I've drawn where I'm like, no, I don't respect that when you do that.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.759
Like we famously read Before the Coffee Gets Cold on.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.640
The show.
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:09.839
And I think time travel offers authors like quite a lazy vehicle to ask these what if questions that they could have gotten to another way, perhaps.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.079
Like, as we discussed, I did just finish reading yesteryear, which I guess falls.
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:16.240
I mean, I expected it to fall into this category.
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:17.440
Does it, doesn't it?
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:18.400
I can't say.
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:19.359
No spoilers.
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.039
On the calculation of volume by Solvay Barr.
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:24.960
I guess that's time travel in a way.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.519
It's the same day repeating over and over again.
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:36.640
Both good, but maybe not time travel in the traditional sense where it's like, whoa, wacky man Doctor Who type vibes.
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:47.279
I think this seems to be the episode for like listener submissions because someone asked another question and they said, Does reading time travel things mess with your heads?
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:52.880
I have a hard time reading time travel sometimes because I start bringing too much logic into the mix.
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:54.640
Like, girl, you can't do that.
00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:58.480
You might have just ruined the entire course of human history just then.
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:00.079
And I agree.
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:05.680
I don't think I am whimsical enough to like immerse myself in that world.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.039
I don't understand how it would be possible.
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:15.200
I know that Diana Gabbledone and Stephen Hawking believe that time travel is possible.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.599
That's too much for my tiny brain to comprehend.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:19.920
I don't, well, possibly more.
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:20.640
Do you?
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:22.000
Let's survey everyone.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:23.200
Do you think it's possible?
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:23.839
No.
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:25.119
There's no one else in the room.
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:25.440
Okay.
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:27.039
But Stephen Hawking and Diana.
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:30.480
Yeah, but I read about it.
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:30.960
Okay.
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:33.359
They believe it's possible.
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:35.119
I don't understand why that is.
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:36.319
And it's too much for me.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:37.359
It's like overload.
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:39.759
I'm gonna be like a Mac trying to play The Sims.
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:40.960
I'm gonna be overheating.
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:41.839
I don't understand it.
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:43.359
I don't want to read about it.
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:45.599
I mean, I know we'll come back to it.
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:54.160
I think it's pretty rich of Diana Gabbledon to take that perspective with like the sprinkling of time travel that's often in her book.
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:57.359
Moving on, um, yes, it does mess with my head.
00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:03.039
I think it's well noted in our podcasts that I'm not always so happy to go with the flow.
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:11.119
Um, and in this novel and in like any movies or like other books in this vein that I've read, it's the like, but think about what you've done.
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:13.039
Think about the ramifications, do it.
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:13.599
But how?
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:14.880
How are we getting back?
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:15.839
What's the science?
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:17.279
Does it work in reverse?
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:18.559
How can we test this theory?
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:20.799
Like, yeah, has anyone called in sick for your job?
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:22.720
Like, what like what does your mom think you're doing?
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:23.759
Oh, Narnia.
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:24.400
Oh.
00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:28.160
It's just reminding me of something else I don't like.
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:31.440
Are your family sad?
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:31.680
Yeah.
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:32.559
Do they miss you?
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:32.880
Yeah.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:35.599
How will they ever get closure?
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:37.200
I don't want to think about these things.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.920
What happened to the vibrators in your top drawer?
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:41.759
Did someone have to clean them out?
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:46.400
I can sense us getting riled up.
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:49.200
I can sense us getting carried away, swept away, perhaps.
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:50.720
Yes, of course, perhaps.
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:51.920
To another time.
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:53.599
To another place.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:56.000
We walked next to some stones.
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:57.359
Careful where you walk.
00:24:57.599 --> 00:24:58.240
Bridget.
00:24:58.720 --> 00:24:59.440
Mind the cap.
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:10.880
Bridget, before we get too far into the episode, I'd love to know your initial thoughts, expectations, hopes, and dreams heading into Atlanda by Diana Garbell Stone.
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:12.799
See what I did there?
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:14.400
I did, yeah.
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:15.119
Thank you.
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:16.799
I didn't really know what to expect.
00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:18.160
I knew it was long.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.680
I obviously knew there was a TV show about it.
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:25.599
And I only really know older women who enjoy that TV show.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.240
Like maybe two people I know have watched it.
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:34.799
One of those people watched so much of it in a two-week period that they developed Vertigo.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:35.920
Why?
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:36.480
Hang on.
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:44.960
The other person I know that likes a TV show, one of my friends, has the theme song as the ringtone.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:46.960
And I didn't know that's what it was.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:53.759
Anyway, so like during meetings and stuff at work, it I'd just hear sing me a song with the lyrics.
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:57.119
And I'd be like, what is that haunting voice?
00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.039
I never knew what it was.
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:01.599
That's really all I know about Outlander.
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:15.039
I looked at it on Goodreads, I saw that it had an outstanding average rating of 4.27 with around 1,171,000 reviews.
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:15.599
Wow.
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:16.799
And that's incredible.
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:22.240
The only other thing I know about Outlander is I think standing stones are boring.
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:24.720
There's some littered around Yorkshire.
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.599
Brian always tries to get me interested in them when we are there.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:28.799
He's trying to send you back.
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:29.920
It's so boring.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.200
I don't care about rocks.
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:32.559
I don't care about stones.
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:36.960
Man-arranged rocks or like nature-arranged rocks.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:38.400
Not here for any of it.
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:42.880
The last time we were in England, we were driving, and he was like, Oh, there's some standing stones around here somewhere.
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.759
Like I've been looking out for them, and I was like, Oh yeah, they were like 10 minutes ago.
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.680
I saw them on the map and didn't, I just didn't think it was interesting, so I didn't bring it up.
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:51.119
And he was like, Oh.
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.599
So goddamn it.
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:56.640
I could have gone back to the past quite a lot of things.
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.880
Maybe with that attitude, you should have.
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:00.880
Go back for spanking.
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:03.200
Stop.
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:05.200
How about you?
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:06.799
What was your thoughts about Outlander?
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:15.039
I can't explain it, but for some reason, this was one that, like, on multiple occasions for no reason at all, I'd been like, wouldn't it be crazy if we read Outlander?
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:16.720
Actually, you were very keen to read this.
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:18.160
I think you were the driving voice one.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:19.519
Like a number of years.
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:21.519
What fits that genre?
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:23.119
Outlander.
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:38.720
I really thought that I was going to enjoy this when I looked on Goodreads, and I know it's not always the measure of a book, but when I looked on Goodreads, it actually has nothing below a three-star, quite a few four-star ratings from friends and foes.
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:50.079
And I think I sort of thought, like, yeah, it might be trashy, it might be long, but the historical romance element might give it a bit more oomph.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:51.359
Yeah, oomph.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:57.119
A little bit more like gravity or realism, which could mean that I connect with a romance finally.
00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:58.960
So I was kind of excited.
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:05.039
Aside from that, my friend Georgia Rose and I used to be, for some reason, in the Queensland Irish choir.
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:06.880
Oh my god, I forgot that.
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.119
And we used to sing the skyboat song all the time.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:13.279
So I love that song.
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:18.640
And although, yeah, we are talking about the book and not the show, I was excited to be singing in the zone.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:19.200
Singing that.
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:20.240
Singing the song of a land.
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:21.039
And what is it?
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:26.160
Sing me a song of a land that is gone.
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:27.440
That's it.
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:33.359
Listeners everywhere will be pleased or displeased to know that I can't do a Scottish accent.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:34.400
Can you do a Scottish accent?
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:34.720
No.
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:36.960
There will be no accents done in this episode.
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:49.680
But attention, lads and lassies, if you are yet to finish reading Outlander by Diana Gavaldone and would like to avoid spoilers, pause the episode here, subscribe to the show, and come back when you're ready to listen again.
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:56.640
Content warnings for Outlander include rape, sexual assault, violence, death, blood, abuse, infertility, and war.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:58.559
The year is 1945.
00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:10.640
Claire Randall, a former combat nurse, is just back from the war and reunited with her husband on a second honeymoon when she walks through a standing stone in one of the ancient circles that dot the British Isles.
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:20.960
Suddenly she is Assassinak, an outlander, in a Scotland torn by war and raiding border clans in the year of our Lord, 1743.
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:29.920
Hurled back in time by forces she cannot understand, Claire is catapulted into the intrigues of lairds and spies that may threaten her life and shatter her heart.
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:38.960
For here, James Fraser, a gallant young Scots warrior, shows her a love so absolute that Claire becomes a woman torn between fidelity and desire.
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:43.839
And between two vastly different men in two irreconcilable lives.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:53.440
Okay, Laura, we have now finished reading all 863 pages of Outlander, and I cannot wait to hear how you felt.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:05.519
I don't know how to feel.
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:10.960
I guess my overwhelming feeling is I wish I hadn't read that.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:18.319
And it's not even as glaring and as offensive as so many of the books we've read on the show.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.160
It's just a tepid, like, ugh, that wasn't for me.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:22.640
Yeah.
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:24.319
I feel exactly the same way.
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:32.480
I think there's like points in the story where I could have really been hooked in, and then there were other points where I was set free.
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:34.880
Running with the wolves.
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:35.599
Go back.
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.240
Back to your first husband, please.
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:41.279
Please just make a choice, let it end.
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:42.400
Yeah.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.559
So overall, quite disappointing.
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:45.759
Yeah, I would say so.
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:47.599
Kinda good, kinda not.
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:51.039
I don't think there's a chance that I'm going to read any of the other books.
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:51.920
Oh, not at all.
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:57.039
There's so many others, and uh from the stacks I've seen, they seem to get a little bigger every time.
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:01.359
Yeah, I saw somebody say, I think on Reddit that it is an average of a thousand pages per book.
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:02.160
Oh my god.
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:07.200
And there are nine currently published books, and the tenth is soon to be published.
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:15.200
And I think given that one of my major issues with Outlander was that there was just so much of it, I think that's a hard no.
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:22.799
But whereas with some of the podcast books we've read, I would say, no, that's bad writing, that's a bad book, that's a bad plot about bad characters.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:24.960
I don't necessarily think that's the case here.
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:32.640
There were lots of things in this book where I thought, oh, what a beautiful passage, or oh, it is nice to hear about this, or that's a great quote.
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:37.119
And definitely scenes where I found myself swept up in the drama.
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:39.759
This book was like a threadbare blanket.
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:50.559
Like you could get warmth and enjoyment from your blanket in certain parts, and then the other bits were so cold and boring and such a waste of your time.
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:52.160
Don't even bother putting the blanket on.
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:53.200
I love this analogy.
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.240
Yeah, it's so no, it's it's that's exactly what it is.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:59.119
Me being like, she needs to learn to write better.
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:02.480
And I whip out this faultless blanket analogy.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.400
Is there anything else you want to add?
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:06.960
No.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:11.039
I think you've summed it up very well with the threadbare blanket analogy.
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:13.519
My overall feeling was bored.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:14.079
Yes.
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:15.839
And that's fine, I think.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:25.279
Well, before we get too far into the specifics of what did and didn't work for us in this book, I think we should wind it back a bit and have a bit of a chat about Diana Gabaldone, our author.
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:27.759
So stressed every time I say her name.
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:32.079
Same, because up until two hours ago, we have been saying Gabaldon.
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:35.200
We've read that it rhymes with Stone, so if it's wrong, apologies.
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:36.559
But she's an intriguing character.
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:37.440
Let's talk about her.
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:41.920
Straight off the bat, I would like to say I'm a little bit scared of Diana Gabaldon.
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:43.119
Gabaldon.
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:44.240
Shit.
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.359
I've watched a few interviews with her.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:48.960
I think she's a scary lady.
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:49.920
But let's talk about her.
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:55.359
She was born in 1952 in Arizona to a Mexican father and an English mother.
00:32:55.519 --> 00:33:03.920
She has a Bachelor of Science in Zoology, Masters of Science in Marine Biology, and a PhD in behavioral ecology.
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.440
She has a scientific mind and she's smart.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:23.200
Isn't that interesting the way that like quite a few of the podcast books we've read now have been like an incredibly smart, scientifically minded woman who's turned to writing as just like a creative outlet and written these like incredibly popular romances.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:26.559
Yeah, like you think about Frieda McFadden or even Ali Hazelwood.
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:26.799
Yeah.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:28.640
It's very interesting.
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:32.319
Um, also quite interesting how we haven't liked them.
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:36.400
There's something here we could stretch out into a theory, I'm sure.
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:37.359
A hypothesis.
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:38.960
Dare we say?
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:52.880
So she started her writing career through submissions to Gold Key Comics, and she said that she had noticed like the quality of the comics slipping over the past 25 years in a letter to the company, and she wanted to try to do better.
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:54.799
So she submitted some work.
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:59.119
I think they bought her second submission and started from there.
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:04.240
25 years is a really long period of scientific observation, so you can't fault her there.
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.480
Also, can't imagine being committed to a comic for 25 years.
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:10.480
Wow, so lifelike.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:24.800
She was the founding editor of Science Software Quarterly in 1984, and she wrote software reviews and technical articles for computer publications, as well as popular science articles and Disney comics.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:26.159
Okay, quite a variety there.
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:26.639
Yes.
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:30.159
For 12 years, she was a professor in scientific computation.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:36.480
And in 1988, she decided to try her hand at writing a novel for funsies and practice.
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:45.440
She was inspired by an episode of Doctor Who, where one of the doctor's companions was a Scotsman named Jamie in the year 1745.
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:47.920
I would love to be able to find inspiration that way.
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:57.840
Like it is all well and good for me to come on and rag on these authors and be like, well, I didn't really like the romance novel you wrote, but I am not coming up with any ideas of my own.
00:34:58.079 --> 00:34:59.280
So I will give them that.
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:00.000
Yeah.
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:03.519
I was reading about how at the time she had some young children.
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:10.559
She had a very busy career, obviously a household to run alongside her husband, and she wrote this book in secret.
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:20.559
She was waking up at like four o'clock in the morning to secretly write because she knew that if she said to her husband, Oh, I'm thinking about writing this story, he might say, Hmm, maybe wait a few years because you've got so much going on.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:37.840
I had a bit of a count and a bit of a look around, and it seems that she has written about 31 books, numerous scientific articles, but one that really stood out to me was an article on the Gabaldone theory of time travel in the Journal of Transfigural Mathematics.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:38.400
Okay.
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:39.360
Did you read it?
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:39.760
No.
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:41.760
I wouldn't have understood a word.
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:42.880
No, that's true.
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:45.599
We would have been completely lost to us.
00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:54.639
We have already alluded to being quite terrified of her, and a quick search of Diana Gabaldone controversy has yielded some interesting results.
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:59.039
So some of the controversies highlighted around her clashes with TV producers.
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:04.559
Um, she was serving as an executive consultant for the Outlander television series.
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:14.480
And you've seen and I've seen in interviews where she has been pretty vocal about um her opinions on like how the show has changed scenes or taken liberties.
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:18.719
We heard her say like five times in one interview, the book is the book and the show is the show.
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:23.599
And honestly, I get that because if I wrote a book, I would have a really hard time of letting it go.
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:24.800
I don't think I could do it.
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:25.440
No.
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:32.800
And another thing that I respect her for, even though it terrifies me, and if it was a different author, I could, you know, change my tune just like that.
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:37.760
But she has had some pretty direct quotes about like, well, I don't write for the fans.
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:38.480
I write for me.
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:40.079
I don't really care what the fans think.
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:42.960
I don't care if they're happy with the books, like it's just for me.
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:45.599
So I think that's caused a little bit of backlash.
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:51.519
And then one of the most intriguing ones for me was some comments that she's made around fan fiction.
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:58.639
So Diana does have a blog which is still up on her website, which she's still updating, actually.
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:05.280
Yeah, it's still being updated, but the website itself looks like approximately Yeah, it is time travel when you go to the website.
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:06.559
You are going back in time.
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:07.039
Yeah.
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:07.280
Yeah.
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:11.519
It feels like you're in 2005 on your parents' desktop.
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:13.679
Yes, very much so.
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:19.199
And so although these blog posts have been deleted, we all know the internet is forever.
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:36.719
So in 2010, she published a blog post when she basically called fanfiction illegal and immoral, which are two very strong words, going so far as to compare the unauthorized use of her characters to the quote rape of an author's work.
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:48.320
So this led to her actually putting out a formalized official fanfiction policy, which requested fans don't write, send, publish, or do like any fanfiction based on her intellectual property.
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:50.159
The blog post was unhinged.
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:57.760
It is unhinged, and I think what makes it even more unhinged is when you look at the reason why this came about.
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:17.119
So a deleted blog post from 2010, which has been preserved on, I think, a live journal, which is another blast from the past, says, recently a couple of people have drawn my attention to a person who's been posting on various boards about fundraising for an uninsured friend named Stacy who has breast cancer.
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:28.239
The poster's idea for fundraising is to auction off a custom written piece of fanfic involving Jamie Fraser and Emmett someone who I think is from Twilight.
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:34.719
I sort of hope it's not the willowy young bottom from the TV show Queer As Folk.
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:46.159
She hastens to note that it won't be slash but will otherwise take the bitter's tastes into account.
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:49.840
And of course, all proceeds will go to Stacy's hospital expense fund.
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.199
She did not naturally ask me about this.
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:54.880
What would I have to say about it?
00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:58.719
Well, the question here, of course, is what do I say about it?
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:04.719
Do I write to this person and tell her to cease and desist and too bad about Stacy, thus seeming heartless?
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:12.320
Do I give this manipulative project my blessing, thus opening the door to an endless parade of piously disguised fanfic charity?
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:18.800
Make it clear that I disapprove of what she's doing, but stop short of forbidding her to do it, and turn a blind eye if she does.
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:20.000
This went on.
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:22.559
It was long and on and on.
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:24.239
She got quite a lot of backlash.
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:26.559
I think she got like the 2010 version of cancelled.
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:26.880
Yeah.
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.320
I think she posted three or four different blog posts addressing this.
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:32.079
They've all since been deleted.
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:36.960
And then yeah, she did say the quote, okay, my position on fanfic is pretty clear.
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:38.320
I think it's immoral.
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:46.000
I know it's illegal, and it makes me want to baff whenever I've inadvertently accounted some of it involving my characters.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:47.440
It's extreme.
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:48.639
It is extreme.
00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:52.400
I don't know, like, I guess what, year 2010.
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.840
Uh, fanfiction is I guess growing.
00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:01.280
It's a newer phenomenon, but also like fan fiction is as old as literature, really.
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:04.239
Like everything's inspired by something.
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:14.480
I do think her distinction that Stacy is uninsured is like a little cruel, apart from the obvious homophobia and twilight phobia.
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:15.199
Yes.
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:16.960
I don't know what's wrong with this.
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:18.800
It's like Anne Rice when she was popping off.
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:22.559
It is like Anne Rice, and I think I've I've seen some things about George R.R.
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:24.559
Martin also talking about things like this.
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:28.559
So similar eras, similar, you know, kinds of genres.
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:44.880
I would also like to point out the fact that I read out earlier, which was she was inspired by an episode of Doctor Who, where one of the Doctor's companions was a Scotsman named Jamie in the year 1745.
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:51.119
So if that's not fanfiction, I don't know what it is, Diana.
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:57.920
I sort of feel like she just wanted a monopoly on her own works because, like you said before, she's written like 30-something books.
00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:05.280
Uh, spoiler alert, a large portion of those are just fanfics about characters like novellas, prequels, sequels.
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:14.320
Not only has she been writing those many novellas, but she's also given the rights to Outlander for a musical to be developed and a graphic novel.
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:15.599
So I don't know.
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:18.880
I think her opinions on fanfiction are a bit of a stretch.
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:32.239
I don't know how I would feel if I was an author and people were writing stuff about characters that I'd written, but I do tend to think that I would have some acceptance of the fact that A, it's published, it's out in the world.
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:32.480
Yeah.
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:36.079
This could surely, possibly even benefit my work.
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:37.760
And B, it's all made up.
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:38.079
Yeah.
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:44.559
You know, it's that argument of like good reads and bookstagram, story graph, they are reader spaces.
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.679
I would also argue that fanfiction websites are also reader spaces.
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:52.239
I don't think authors have any business going into fanfiction websites and reading about their characters.
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:54.400
I think that could only be bad for the author.
00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:59.280
I don't know why you'd want to do that to yourself, but I think this is something that she should have taken a step back from.
00:41:59.440 --> 00:41:59.760
Yeah.
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:07.840
And I wonder, like, I wonder in 2026, 16 years on, like she's 74 this year.
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:13.679
Is she still feeling as strongly about this issue, or maybe has she thought, Akim, there's people that are dying?
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:14.559
I don't know.
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:20.079
She seems like someone whose opinion on this would have only doubled down and strengthened over time.
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:23.440
So the theme this month is time travel.
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:27.199
And as we alluded to before, this book barely time travels.
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:32.880
Something I found interesting when I was researching is that the novel didn't initially feature time travel at all.
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:44.000
It was sort of added later by Diana to explain Claire's personality in comparison to the Scottish people in the 1700s.
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:49.599
So she had meant the book to be a straight historical novel.
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:55.119
When she was writing her first scene with Claire, she said that she wouldn't cooperate.
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:07.760
Dougal asked her who she was, and without my stopping to think who she should be, she drew herself up, stared belligerently at him, and said, Claire Elizabeth Beauchamp, and who the hell are you?
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:14.079
She promptly took over the story and began telling it herself, making smart ass, modern remarks about everything.
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:24.880
At which point I shrugged and said, Fine, nobody's ever going to see this book, so it doesn't matter what bizarre thing I do, go ahead and be modern, and I'll figure out how you got there later.
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:27.199
So time travel was all her fault.
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.280
That's a hundred shades of Jessa Hastings, hey.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:40.159
That's so interesting because one of my notes was that the time travel element is so secondary to everything else that's happening in this book.
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:45.199
And I just was really thinking I don't understand why she isn't just a spy.
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:51.519
Like that would be way higher stakes tension or like a highborn English woman.
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:54.159
She could be a captive, she could be captured.
00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:54.719
Yes.
00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:59.599
You um actually can still be sassy and English, um, regardless of.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.119
What era you come from?
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:05.039
It kind of screams of like we've seen know how to write any other way.
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:13.760
Like having watched interviews with her as well, I would say the way that Claire narrates is exactly the way that Diana Gabbledone speaks.
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:21.119
This just reminded me of a note that I have further down the document, which is be careful what we say, because as we mentioned before, we're scared of her.
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:24.639
But she has come out and said that her characters are not her children.
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:26.400
Her characters are her.
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:27.199
Oh well.
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:28.320
So we know that.
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:34.559
But she said, not just Claire, not just Jamie, all of them, including Black Jack Randall.
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:36.320
You might want to keep that in mind.
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:37.280
Chills.
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:39.440
I'm genuinely so scared.
00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:51.440
She was at a book club meet and she was surrounded by these women who were talking about her book, and they were saying how much they detested Black Jack Randall and like all of the awful things he says, all of the awful, awful, awful things he does.
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:54.559
And she was like, you guys have gotta be careful.
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:55.599
I'm right here.
00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:56.800
He's a rapist.
00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:57.199
Yeah.
00:44:57.440 --> 00:44:58.159
Like serial.
00:44:58.400 --> 00:44:58.639
Yeah.
00:44:58.880 --> 00:44:59.119
Yeah.
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:03.440
She also said they continue to be me when written on the page.
00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:13.519
You know this, if you've read it all, if a writer is halfway honest in what he or she does, the reader knows that writer in varying degrees, some conscious, some visceral.
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:19.119
When you mess with my people, you aren't messing with something I made, you're messing with me.
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:21.440
I don't know.
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:22.639
I don't know.
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:30.400
I sort of tend to think when authors talk about their writing like this, it gives me the same feeling as like method acting.
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:34.320
I know that your characters have to inhabit you a little bit.
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:34.880
Yes.
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:36.880
Otherwise, like how do they come out?
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:43.679
But this line where you can't detach yourself from them, you know, you cut me, I bleed ink type thing.
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:48.400
Stephanie Meyer crying when she had to cut some scenes.
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:50.159
I mean, I would be no different.
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:50.800
That's the thing.
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:59.840
Like, you know, it's rich of me to say, I would absolutely like, even when we have to edit bits out of this podcast, sometimes I'm like, but I'm so funny.
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:02.639
Yeah, this is my best bit though.
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:04.719
I don't know.
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.280
It's it's mainly terrifying, is what I would say.
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:08.320
Oh, yeah, 100%.
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:09.920
I'm scared.
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:11.199
She got me there.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:12.480
She got me.
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:20.320
I think it's a testament to like how boring we found this book where the majority of what we're talking about is like the publication and the author.
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:27.199
However, to build on some of the publication facts, Outlander was first published in the United States in 1991.
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:31.599
It was published in the UK and Australia under the title Cross Stitch.
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:34.480
The original cover for this is stunning.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:40.159
It's got like a clock, some tartan, some sort of like beads and chains.
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:43.360
Every cover thereafter is hideous.
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:54.719
So the US publishers had a little faith in their audience, as they so often do, and they changed the book's name to Outlander because it sounded not adventury enough and a little bit too much like embroidery.
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:58.960
But this wasn't the only regional variation as a result of the publication process.
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:06.000
In fact, there were so many subtle differences that at first Bridget thought she'd uncovered a conspiracy.
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:09.039
Yeah, I thought I had like a dud copy of a book once again.
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:11.199
This has happened sometime to me before.
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:11.760
When was that?
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:13.039
Fifty Shades of Grey?
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:13.599
Yes.
00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:14.159
Yeah.
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:14.880
Yeah.
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:17.920
Those like really like paper great paper books.
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:18.639
Yeah.
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.360
As I often do, I was switching between formats.
00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:26.559
So I have a paperback copy of the book, I had an ebook copy, and I had an audiobook.
00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:29.119
Normally I read the podcast books two times.
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:41.920
I normally read it once as a book, and I normally listen to it once as an audiobook, but because this book is so, so, so long, I was just switching, you know, at the ends of chapters to whatever format was suiting me at that time.
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:47.119
I was reading the book on my phone and I wanted to switch back to the paperback version.
00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:57.840
And so I was searching for this scene that I was up to, and it was a sex scene, and so I thought, oh, that'll be easy to find because I'll just look for, you know, some gross words and it will be fine.
00:47:58.000 --> 00:47:59.039
But I couldn't find it.
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:03.039
It wasn't in the book, and so I was thinking, have I uncovered something huge here?
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:12.400
Am I about to do a big mic drop of censorship and outlander and all of these things, bonus chapters being added to fit the steamy market, etc.
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:12.880
etc.
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:14.960
And then I started to notice a few other things.
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:17.760
I noticed that there are some character names that are different.
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:19.760
Alex versus Alec.
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:20.159
Yeah.
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:22.000
Comb versus Callum.
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:25.920
We tried to Google it a few times and we couldn't find too much information on it.
00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:32.800
And what we sort of thought was just that the American publishers once again didn't really have faith in their audience.
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:43.039
Then finally Lori hit Jackpot and she came across a Reddit thread that sort of validated our conspiracy theory and made us feel not crazy.
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:50.639
Yeah, this is interesting because I feel like this is something we don't see very often or either just like never have the opportunity to discover.
00:48:51.039 --> 00:49:02.079
I have two physical copies of Outlander, um, and these were both published post-TV shows, so I guess they would both be US editions, because they both call the character Callum, not Calm.
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:10.079
But I was listening to the audiobook, which was released long enough ago that it says now ending disc one.
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:11.199
Yes.
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:17.679
Which I was like, oh, and long enough ago that the only audience for audiobooks seems to be 70-year-old women.
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:18.320
Yes.
00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:26.400
Yeah, the narrator did give Claire a certain older twang, which was a little unsettling in some scenes.
00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:37.760
I also had access to an e-book copy that was published recently by Penguin and has testaments from the likes of Allie Hazlewood, Rebecca Yarris, Cassandra Clare.
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:44.400
So, I mean, had I stumbled upon that first, maybe that could have given me a better indication as to how I may feel about this book.
00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:49.039
Um, but one user on Reddit said, the UK version was called Cross Stitch.
00:49:49.199 --> 00:50:05.760
In the Outlandish Companion, which is a companion novel, or a bit of an explainer that Diana Gebaldone wrote for Outlander, she talks about how the sentiment of American readers was something to the effect of why would Claire be worrying about Frank so much when she has Jamie.
00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:09.440
But the UK readers thought that she wasn't worrying about Frank enough.
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:12.559
So the UK version has a bit more worrying about Frank.
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:16.800
And then there was another Reddit I came across where some more differences were highlighted.
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:26.960
So in Outlander but not in Cross Stitch, there was a part where Claire sees Jamie's scars for the first time, um, and this whole part was missing in Cross Stitch.
00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:31.199
I think the details were deemed to be a little bit too gory, like the details of the flogging.
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:33.760
In chapter 18, there's a sex scene that was cut.
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:40.159
In chapter 22, Jamie tells the story about an incident where he was beaten in Colms Hall at the age of 16.
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:44.079
And then changes that are made in Cross Stitch are minor, I guess.
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.159
There's a couple of geographic differences.
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:55.039
Apparently in chapter 24, Diana Gabbledon had to rewrite a scene so that it looked like they were just having stock standard sex instead of Jamie going down on Claire.
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:57.519
And just a few other things like that.
00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:00.239
So I was kind of sh, yeah, surprised by that.
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:03.760
I guess I was just really ignorant about the fact that that happens.
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:07.119
Yeah, and I was wondering how often is this happening.
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:13.199
Like I'm not often switching between an e-book and an audiobook and a physical book, paying such close attention.
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:17.039
And how much other stuff have we missed in the past or even in this book?
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:18.800
It's it's so interesting to me.
00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:23.760
As is often the case with our show, we weigh up the good reviews against the bad reviews.
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:27.360
But this episode we had an opportunity to do something slightly different.
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:36.719
I was lamenting the fact that I'm struggling through this very large book on TikTok and received a comment from a very enthusiastic Outlander fan eager to jump to the defense of her favourite book.
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:48.159
I think, Bridget, we're both still a little on the fence and a little uncertain about what's hooking so many people in and earning Outlander its 4.27 star average rating on Goodreads.
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:51.840
And this opportunity has never really presented itself before.
00:51:52.000 --> 00:52:01.519
So without further ado, we'd love to offer you the other side of the coin, the other perspective, and raise the roof with a little enthusiasm for Outlander.
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:05.039
Say hello to our mystery guest Ren.
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:06.079
Hello, Ren.
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:07.679
Thank you so much for joining us.
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:10.800
It is an honor and a privilege to have you on our show.
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:20.880
I was wondering if you could pretty please introduce yourself for our listeners, tell us who you are, what makes you uniquely qualified to talk on the topic of Outlander.
00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:21.840
Okay, hi.
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:23.599
Thank you so much for having me.
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:25.199
My name is Ren.
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:28.320
I am a public librarian in Melbourne.
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:37.199
I think that I am uniquely qualified to speak on Outlander, or at least to say that I speak in defense of Outlander.
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:41.280
You're taking up arms for Outlander.
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:42.800
Exactly, yeah.
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:48.639
So Outlander was published for the first time in 1991 when I was about two years old.
00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:56.639
My mum had a first edition copy of it, and I've never lived in a house in my life without a copy of Outlander on the shelf.
00:52:56.800 --> 00:53:01.679
In fact, my copy is called Cross Stitch because that's what it was originally called.
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:16.239
And then when I moved from Auteroa to Australia when I was 21, I found a copy in an op shop and I picked it up and I started reading it as a way to feel closer to my mum because I was so homesick.
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:19.280
And then there hasn't been a year of my life since then.
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:20.480
I'm 37 now.
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:23.360
There hasn't been a year of my life that I haven't picked a copy up.
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:28.000
Not necessarily of Outlander, but of one of the books in the series and had a reread.
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:31.920
So I've read them all so many times, half a dozen times each.
00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:34.800
They hold an immensely special place in my heart.
00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:39.119
So yeah, I feel qualified to speak up for Outlander.
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:40.320
I love that.
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:41.360
That is so cool.
00:53:41.599 --> 00:53:42.719
What a nice story.
00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:43.440
Yeah.
00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:47.360
I was just thinking, I don't think I have a book like that, to be honest.
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:47.679
No.
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:51.440
Definitely not one that is one that's been read by my mum.
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:58.159
Like I also enjoy reading because my mum enjoys reading and I saw her reading and I wanted to be just like her.
00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:01.920
But I don't really think there's a book that we've both loved together.
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:03.199
So that's really special.
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:21.599
As I said to Laura when we were discussing me coming on to take this role on today's um podcast, I don't know that I can necessarily argue for the literary merits of Outlander, but I can argue for its heart and soul and the fact that it is a beautiful book.
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:23.199
I think that's very fair.
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:25.519
And actually, that was gonna be one of my questions.
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:30.000
I guess what is the reading need that Outlander fills for you?
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:33.360
Is it just that kind of comfort, that deep comfort?
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:38.000
Yeah, I mean, look, I do think that these books are well written.
00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:41.440
I think they are beautifully written.
00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:46.480
Diana Gabelden's descriptive style of writing, I think it's good.
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:47.920
I think it's good writing.
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:54.159
I say to my friend who also loves the books, I would read a shopping list that Claire has.
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:57.119
You know, like I would read anything.
00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:02.400
In fact, I almost wish that she would stop trying to write exciting stuff.
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:08.000
I just want to read about them going about their daily lives and the really basic stuff that they do.
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:15.360
I think use the word comfort, and I think that's a big part of the need, the reading need that it fulfills for me.
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:21.920
I think it's very interesting when you look through my end-of-year reading on fable or story graph or whatever.
00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:25.519
You can see I'm like, oh, that month was a hard month for me.
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:29.519
Like work was tough or I was going through something or whatever.
00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:37.679
Uh, because that's when I picked one of the books up because it's so they're so easy for me to read and it's like visiting old friends.
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:40.880
Sometimes I'll be like, Oh, I wonder what they're up to.
00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:43.519
And then I'll I'll be like, oh, okay.
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:52.800
I maybe needed to start taking things easy because that's my sign that that I'm kind of at my limit and I need to go revisit something so easy and lovely.
00:55:53.119 --> 00:55:54.000
Your barometer.
00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:54.719
Yeah.
00:55:55.280 --> 00:55:56.480
Check in with yourself.
00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:56.960
Yeah.
00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:05.920
It is funny because normally, like on the podcast, when we read a book, we either have like a strong hatred for it or we love it.
00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:09.039
This one, I would say it's not either one of those.
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:13.280
Like we weren't like, this book sucks, like we so often find ourselves.
00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:23.519
I think it's just so far like outside of our usual reading realms that it was hard to I don't know, hard to be gripped or hard to connect with the characters.
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:25.679
I don't know what it was for me.
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:27.840
I think I really agree with you.
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:34.719
I do also think that the writing was really beautiful and it had so much of the things that I enjoy in other novels.
00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:40.880
I found it to be really cozy and I loved the descriptions of domestic life and nature.
00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:41.760
The food.
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:43.360
Oh, the food as well.
00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:45.119
I want an oat cake.
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:48.000
Yeah, I want honey on warm bread.
00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.079
A slice of bread and a chunk of cheese, you know.
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:54.880
That's the best book meal ever.
00:56:55.039 --> 00:56:55.360
Yeah.
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:57.280
I don't know.
00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:00.239
I think maybe the pacing threw me off.
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:01.199
It is a big book.
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:03.360
It is intimidatingly large.
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:11.280
And I tried hard to read it slowly because I knew that if I tried to power through, I'd probably get frustrated and make myself angry.
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:13.360
I don't know why it didn't hook me.
00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:20.159
Do you think that the other novels in this series build on this story like in a way that may make it better for me?
00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:26.159
This is a tricky one because I think that not every book in this series, there's nine of them.
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:30.000
Not every book in this series is incredible.
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:34.639
I think some of them are duds, or maybe not duds, but a little bit more boring.
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:37.760
And the second one is is one of the ones that's a bit more boring.
00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:38.320
Dang.
00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:39.679
So wow.
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:44.880
It's always a challenge because it's like if the first one didn't hook you, the second one is not going to.
00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:51.360
The second one's gonna lose you completely, but then the third one that starts getting really good.
00:57:52.239 --> 00:58:00.960
So you've got to be really committed, I think, to wanting to see the magic to really get fully hooked on them.
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:04.320
And if the first one didn't, I don't know why you would bother with the second.
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:10.239
But yeah, they are long, they're really long, and I can see why you would struggle.
00:58:10.400 --> 00:58:14.719
Like I love how long they are, I'd like them to all be twice as long.
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:23.679
I like the filler, you know, I like the scenes that don't necessarily help the story progress because that's the parts that I love the best.
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:31.440
The descriptions of domestic life and you know, they're at Lelly Brock and they're milk and goat phenomenal.
00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:32.639
Give me more of it.
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:37.599
But yeah, if you're not hooked, I can see why that would be a real challenge.
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:46.400
Not to say that there weren't bits that hooked me, like when Claire was escaping from the prison and she had to go out and fight the wolf.
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:53.360
I was at that point listening to the audiobook and I had to switch back to the physical copy because I couldn't read it fast enough.
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:56.880
And so, like, those really exciting bits really got me.
00:58:57.119 --> 00:59:05.119
Is that sort of level of pace or like adrenaline is it the same throughout the whole series, or some books go a bit slower?
00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:08.320
Because so much happens, so many events.
00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:16.320
We were talking about this before, like there's the witch trials, she's escaping from somebody all the time, like there's so much going on, they must be stressed.
00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:18.559
Yes, cortisol through the roof.
00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:21.760
That doesn't end, that never ends.
00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:22.480
Wow.
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:25.280
You're like power to them.
00:59:25.599 --> 00:59:27.519
Someone's been kidnapped again.
00:59:27.760 --> 00:59:29.360
Like, what on earth?
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:32.719
These poor people, when will they just be able to rest?
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:35.039
That's so funny.
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:44.800
So as you go on, more people are introduced, and then the different storylines happen, and Claire and Jamie are over here, and then so and so's over here, and it's following their story.
00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:51.920
So there are definite it it's it's a book series where a lot of stuff happens to a lot of people the whole way through.
00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:54.559
And it can get a bit exhausting, to be honest.
00:59:55.039 --> 01:00:08.719
Towards the end in the last book, one of my main criticisms that I have is that I think Diana Gabelden gets a bit too she gets a little bit too like you can tell that it needed a bit more heavy-handed editing.
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:15.760
And my theory is that she's a hard person to edit based on interviews that I've seen.
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:27.199
I think that she is really staunch in her idea that these are her characters and this is her story, and don't you dare tell her that this needs to be cut out because what would you know?
01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:28.320
It's her story.
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:33.840
But in the last book in particular, I think there's quite a bit that could have been cut out and made the story a bit better.
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:38.239
And it's all like these like crazy storylines, and then they sort of nothing really happens.
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:40.239
You're like, ah, all then for what?
01:00:41.199 --> 01:00:46.960
We were talking earlier in the episode about Diana and exactly that.
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:52.960
Like she seems to be fiercely protective of her work, and we were saying that we'd probably be the same.
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:58.559
If we'd created this world and created these characters, uh, I think we would be difficult as well.
01:00:58.960 --> 01:00:59.199
Yeah.
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:01.360
I'm always dishing out advice to authors.
01:01:01.519 --> 01:01:02.239
Just let it go.
01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:07.840
It's not a writer's space anymore, it's a reader's space, but I would be the worst author.
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:09.039
I'd be fighting everyone.
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:12.559
So reading every review, crying myself to sleep.
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:22.559
I read an interview once with her where someone asked her a question about one of their characters and why what their motivation behind something that they did was.
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:24.719
And she said, Well, how am I supposed to know?
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:26.639
They just do things and I write it down.
01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:28.159
And I was like, What?
01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:30.880
You're a kook, Diana.
01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:32.079
Crazy.
01:01:33.199 --> 01:01:42.239
And so often you're like, Oh, okay, so you've written this down, but there's really no thought that's gone into why or how this fits into the story.
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:45.760
Which, in my opinion, I love the way she writes.
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:53.920
I love the stories, like it works most of the time, but occasionally it doesn't, and I think a a stronger editor maybe could fix that.
01:01:54.320 --> 01:02:00.559
Something that we've noticed in a few interviews with her is that she's maybe not always so happy about the direction that the show takes.
01:02:00.719 --> 01:02:01.519
Oh, that's interesting.
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:01.920
Yeah.
01:02:02.079 --> 01:02:03.039
Have you seen the show?
01:02:03.280 --> 01:02:03.440
No.
01:02:03.679 --> 01:02:04.239
Wow, no.
01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:04.480
Okay.
01:02:04.880 --> 01:02:06.400
The book's too sacred to me.
01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:08.079
I watched a few episodes.
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:18.239
I didn't love the casting, and I just was like, it's too precious, and I don't want those people in my head when I'm reading it.
01:02:18.559 --> 01:02:19.599
That's totally understandable.
01:02:20.159 --> 01:02:30.719
My main criticism, I think, is that the thing I love so much about Claire is how strong and she's this like amazing modern woman in this older time.
01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:32.559
That's what makes her so special.
01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:43.440
I found in the TV show she's quite wimpy and complainy, and like, you know, like I just didn't believe in the show that the character that they portrayed would fight off wolves.
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:46.880
I feel like shows so often lean into that kind of direction.
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:55.039
To me, it just undoes it all because that is what Jamie loves about her, is that she's this woman that is like no other woman he's ever met.
01:02:55.519 --> 01:02:57.920
He's so desirable in his time.
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:06.880
Like he's a gorgeous man and he's he'd be easy to find a wife, but he meets Claire and he wants her because she's just like nothing he's ever seen before.
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:14.960
So to take away some of her like guts and courage and like kind of modernness, for lack of a better word.
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:15.360
Yeah.
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:17.280
It just doesn't make any sense to me, you know.
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:20.960
Hearing you talk about this, I'm like, oh, this is your twilight.
01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:33.199
I'm looking at the stack of Twilight books behind Bridget, and I'm I've been thinking about like some of our favorite scenes in the Twilight novels are the ones where Bella's doing nothing.
01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:37.199
She's like heating up some lasagna in the microwave, she's reading a book on the rug.
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:38.800
She's so boring, yeah.
01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:42.320
And she's so boring, but it's just so comforting.
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:42.800
Yeah.
01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:52.480
We found when we reread the books that she had a lot more personality and was like funny and a lot sassier and smarter than the movies made her seem.
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:53.039
Yeah.
01:03:53.280 --> 01:03:54.639
That's my take on the show.
01:03:54.800 --> 01:04:02.239
I just think they take all of what Claire is, just take it away before like a visual audience.
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:03.760
She's so beautiful.
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:05.760
She's so beautiful in the show.
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:07.199
But I just don't think she's Claire.
01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:08.800
And I I didn't want that in my brain.
01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:09.119
Yeah.
01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:09.519
You know?
01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:10.800
That's totally fair.
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:30.639
Actually, one of my favorite scenes in the book was when Claire was gonna go back to Frank and to modern times, and she was trying to explain to Jamie, you know, that she had time traveled here and that she wasn't a witch, but like just the frustration and the desperation where she was like, I would seem like a witch to you.
01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:35.599
I can walk through these crowds of people and I cannot get smallpox and I don't get this and that.
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:40.559
And I was really hooked by that concept of like modernity as magic.
01:04:40.639 --> 01:04:42.719
I was like, oh, that is amazing.
01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:43.280
Yeah.
01:04:43.599 --> 01:05:00.320
There's a scene further in the series where there's a woman, I think, or a sailor with smallpox, and no one will go in and look after him on a ship, and she can just go straight in and look after him, and everyone's like, Whoa, like you can't go there, and she's like, Watch me.
01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:02.239
Like, I think that's amazing.
01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:12.480
And in the further books, she creates penicillin and she creates ether so she can do surgery while people are under.
01:05:12.639 --> 01:05:14.239
And I think that is so cool.
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:19.360
Like, that's one of the things I love is thinking about like what I'd be able to take if I ever found myself back.
01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:20.559
I don't know anything.
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:24.880
You know that's actually something that we were thinking about.
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:29.519
Like, if we had to go back in time, like where would we be most, I don't know, well suited to?
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:31.199
And I couldn't really come up with an answer.
01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:32.800
No, I would I would suffer.
01:05:33.039 --> 01:05:34.000
I have no skills really.
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:36.559
I'd get my first period and I'd be like, send me home.
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:37.679
I can't do this anymore.
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:40.639
Even like 15 years ago, I'd be like, I don't know.
01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:43.360
I don't know.
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:45.440
If I was back with my space, it could be good.
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:46.239
Yeah.
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:49.840
I'd get to coding again.
01:05:50.559 --> 01:05:51.679
Girls and STEM.
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:52.639
Yeah.
01:05:53.199 --> 01:05:59.760
Often on our show, with the types of books that we read, there can be some pretty dicey depictions of sort of.
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:03.599
Sexual abuse or like darker sexual themes.
01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:08.480
And to be honest, not either of us are very big readers of historical fiction.
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:20.960
And so when it came to the depictions of, I guess, like violence or I guess some other scenes of sexual abuse in Outlander, we didn't really know where we sat on it.
01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:25.440
I guess I'm talking mainly about when Jamie beats Claire.
01:06:25.679 --> 01:06:27.280
What's your perspective on that?
01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:28.000
Okay.
01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:33.920
Every time I recommend this book to people, I say, look, you're gonna get to a part in the book where Jamie behaves really badly.
01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:37.920
And I need you to like just take it with a grain of salt.
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:40.880
Like I think that's where Outlander loses a lot of people.
01:06:41.199 --> 01:06:47.119
Obviously, I do not think that violence against women is acceptable in any shape or form.
01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:57.039
But I do think that there is more nuance to that scene than people often will allow it.
01:06:57.280 --> 01:07:02.800
I think a lot of the time we come in as modern readers and we think it's simply not okay no matter what.
01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:05.360
And a man who beats a woman is irredeemable.
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:10.719
But I just think that Jamie is redeemable and I think he does redeem himself.
01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:12.320
That's my take on it.
01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:16.719
So I think the thing with Jamie is that he's a man of his time.
01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:19.119
He was born and raised in the 1700s.
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:24.559
It would never have crossed his mind because of the way he was raised that that was something that wouldn't be done.
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:34.000
You know, expecting your wife to obey you unquestioningly is just the dynamic that he would have seen in every relationship of his entire life.
01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:46.559
And what Claire does is undeniably dangerous and reckless, and it puts him and all of his friends in this really dangerous position where they have to go and rescue him.
01:07:46.719 --> 01:07:51.360
And Jamie Dead at that point doesn't know about Claire trying to get back to the stones.
01:07:51.599 --> 01:07:55.519
He just thinks she's gone on this like wander for no reason.
01:07:55.679 --> 01:08:05.679
Like he had he doesn't know, and I think it probably really hurts his feelings as well because he thinks she's trying to run away from him, and he has no context as to why she would do something like that.
01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:14.320
So they go back to this inn, and I don't think it even crosses his mind that she doesn't expect it to happen because he thinks she's from that time as well.
01:08:14.559 --> 01:08:25.920
And so he does it, he beats her, he tells her why, he says, This is because you disobeyed me, and if you'd just listened to me, you wouldn't have put me in such a horrible position and yourself almost got raped.
01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:33.199
Like this is bad, and this is how I have been raised to deal with a situation like this.
01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:37.680
And yes, it's it's awful, it's bad, it's terrible, and we all wish that it didn't happen.
01:08:37.840 --> 01:08:40.000
Me, especially who loves Jamie so much.
01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:49.279
But I think this thing is that Claire very clearly explains to him that this is not acceptable to her, and he never does it again.
01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:51.760
He never raises a finger to her.
01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:58.960
I think at the end of the ninth book, they're like 60 years old, and he never ever does it again, and he doesn't want to.
01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:02.159
It's not like there's something in him that wants to do this.
01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:04.960
It never occurs to him that he shouldn't.
01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:07.840
And once it's explained to him, he doesn't.
01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:08.960
I I don't know.
01:09:09.039 --> 01:09:12.640
I think that's a very fair and a very thoughtful take.
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:18.159
Uh, and I think that's probably where I would have landed if I had used my brain a little bit more.
01:09:18.319 --> 01:09:21.439
Because exactly what you said, he's a product of his time.
01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:26.079
I don't feel that the inclusion of this is for shock value, it's not gratuitous.
01:09:26.239 --> 01:09:32.800
And what probably mattered the most to me was that, like you said, you could see Jamie change and grow.
01:09:32.960 --> 01:09:42.720
And like towards the end of the novel, when he realizes that Claire was trying to get back to her time, he has that moment where he's like, Oh, so that's where you were going.
01:09:42.800 --> 01:09:45.760
And he has that look of regret, which is a bit heartbreaking.
01:09:46.079 --> 01:09:47.920
Yeah, he says, and I beat you for it.
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:48.239
Yeah.
01:09:48.880 --> 01:09:54.880
And you're just like, oh my god, he's like, you're just trying to save your own life, and I punished you for it.
01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:57.520
Like I got goosebumps thinking about it.
01:09:57.760 --> 01:09:58.880
He doesn't want to do it.
01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:03.119
He is gentle to his core, and you see that how he is with the horses.
01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:07.680
Like Jamie's relationship with horses through the books is is a really beautiful one.
01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:18.319
You know, you can see that he's a big man, but he recognises that about himself and he handles people gently all the way through the novels, and that's something that's so special about him.
01:10:18.560 --> 01:10:25.760
And I think he does see Claire as his equal, and that's a rare thing for a man of that time as well.
01:10:26.000 --> 01:10:38.399
And so going forward, he wouldn't beat her again because he I think to do that to someone you have to see them as less than you, or like you're up here and they're down there, and he just does not see her like that.
01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:41.680
I don't think he saw her like that before he beat her.
01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:44.399
He just was doing what he thought he was supposed to do.
01:10:44.560 --> 01:10:45.840
He's also very young.
01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:52.239
Not that that's an in 2026 that's an acceptable reason, but you know, like he's just learning.
01:10:52.560 --> 01:10:56.640
I mean, obviously, in any environment you're learning from the people around you.
01:10:56.720 --> 01:11:07.600
And like you said, he is young, he's a virgin when they meet, he hasn't had a wife, he hasn't had a relationship, and yeah, there's so much outside pressure and sort of societal expectation on him.
01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:10.239
But after the fact, he learns and he grows.
01:11:10.399 --> 01:11:10.640
Yeah.
01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:14.159
Which is really all we can ask and hope of anyone in this situation.
01:11:14.640 --> 01:11:23.920
And he has a great relationship with his father, someone who he loves and the father loves him, and like one of the ways the father shows his love is through discipline.
01:11:24.159 --> 01:11:29.760
And just in this case, it's physical discipline, and so that's the modelled behaviour that he's had.
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:35.760
I think what redeemed me to Jamie was at the end when they were trying to decide like where to go.
01:11:35.840 --> 01:11:38.319
You know, there was like the world is their oyster, basically.
01:11:38.399 --> 01:11:40.399
And he said to Claire, like, Well, what do you want to do?
01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:47.680
And I think that really showed me that he had I don't know if changed is the right word, but like I don't know, he he really did see her as an equal.
01:11:47.920 --> 01:11:50.880
And he's been exposed to things that he wasn't exposed to before.
01:11:51.039 --> 01:11:56.800
I mean, there are there are men now in 2026 who are told you can't beat women and they continue to do it.
01:11:57.039 --> 01:11:57.920
Yeah, yeah.
01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:00.399
Yeah.
01:12:01.279 --> 01:12:02.800
Yeah, that is true.
01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:06.000
Well, thank you very much for answering that really big question.
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:15.439
Um I just feel like it's the thing that really turns people off, Jamie, and they hold it against him, and he's more than that.
01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:17.760
He's more than the worst thing he ever did, you know?
01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:20.640
Like he's a very good husband.
01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:26.640
And I think the other thing that I love about their relationship is neither of them are perfect.
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:33.920
That's one thing I find absolutely intolerable in other books is when you've got these characters that are just so perfect.
01:12:34.319 --> 01:12:42.720
And both of them make throughout the series make some really pretty shitty decisions that hurt each other quite badly.
01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:48.000
Like Claire running away from him without any explanation is a shitty, hurtful thing that she did.
01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:49.840
And he forgives her for it.
01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:59.920
And later in the books, there's a lot of other examples, no spoilers, but you know, like there are things that I think that's I don't know if that's a very nice thing to do to someone that you love.
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:03.920
And they always give each other so much grace.
01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:12.720
And I think that's one thing I love about the way Diana Gabelden writes her characters, is they're so nuanced and there's so much depth to them.
01:13:13.039 --> 01:13:22.479
And you might not get that just in the one book, but across their whole lives, you see so much growth, but also them falling down and then holding each other up.
01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:25.840
And that's one thing I love about the way that she writes her characters.
01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:32.960
I think the opportunity to see them grow and exist in their relationship is something that's like almost got me over the line for the other books.
01:13:33.039 --> 01:13:47.840
I I don't think I will read them, but I think it's an interesting jumping-off point for like a 10-book series where the relationship happens so fast in the first book, and then you're left thinking, well, where to from here?
01:13:48.159 --> 01:13:56.079
I have read that they go through many peaks and troughs together, and I think that's a viewpoint you don't often see in modern romance fiction.
01:13:56.479 --> 01:14:05.920
Something that we are constantly talking about on the podcast is how sick we are of a romance series where it's like it's this couple for this book, and then this book.
01:14:06.079 --> 01:14:08.479
We're finished with that couple, we're on to the next couple.
01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:16.159
I would love to get into a series like this where I can see the growth of a couple throughout, you know, their whole lives together.
01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:18.159
I think that's something that we're sort of missing.
01:14:18.399 --> 01:14:23.279
Normally at the end of our episodes, we name our favourite and least favourite characters from the book.
01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:27.680
No pressure, but do you think you could give us your favorite and least favourite from Outlander?
01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:28.159
All right.
01:14:28.399 --> 01:14:30.960
Favourites, Jamie, obviously.
01:14:32.079 --> 01:14:33.680
I love Jamie so much.
01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:35.359
This is no word of a lie.
01:14:35.439 --> 01:14:41.680
I love Jamie so much that when I read the books, I love my husband more because he reminds me so much of Jamie.
01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:46.079
It brings out more of my husband's really good qualities.
01:14:46.239 --> 01:14:51.439
Jamie has them too, so I'm like, you know, I sit there thinking, oh, my husband would do that too.
01:14:51.520 --> 01:14:52.720
He's so wonderful.
01:14:53.279 --> 01:14:57.680
Um Lee's character, of course, has got to be Larry.
01:14:57.840 --> 01:15:01.760
She or Laugh Hair, as I thought her name was pronounced the first time I read her.
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:02.159
Yep.
01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:02.560
Yeah.
01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:06.159
Just to clarify, thank you.
01:15:06.720 --> 01:15:11.840
She is a nasty, stupid little piece of work.
01:15:12.399 --> 01:15:13.199
Piece of work.
01:15:14.640 --> 01:15:19.520
Uh, and as a a little tidbit, it's not the last you hear of her, Leary.
01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:21.680
She makes another appearance in one of the later books.
01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:24.399
I did read what happens Oh my god.
01:15:24.560 --> 01:15:28.880
I'd like to see her put in one of those like witches' holes that they put Claire in.
01:15:29.760 --> 01:15:30.239
Yes.
01:15:30.399 --> 01:15:31.920
Um the witch.
01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:33.279
Oh no, sorry, sorry, sorry.
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:34.239
Jack Randall.
01:15:34.319 --> 01:15:35.680
Obviously, Jack Randall's the worst.
01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:36.640
I can't believe I think.
01:15:39.119 --> 01:15:40.319
But that goes without saying.
01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:45.279
Yeah, no, the little annoying teenage girl is not worse than the horrible sadistic rapist.
01:15:46.960 --> 01:15:52.960
I'm often guilty of being like, I hate the kid in this book, and then I remember they're a child.
01:15:53.279 --> 01:15:55.279
So I'm with you.
01:15:56.479 --> 01:15:56.880
Yeah.
01:15:57.199 --> 01:16:00.960
And then lastly, before you go, where can our listeners find you online?
01:16:01.359 --> 01:16:02.720
Well, I am on TikTok.
01:16:02.960 --> 01:16:05.680
My handle is superb.rin.
01:16:06.079 --> 01:16:12.000
And I just make content about being a librarian and just my thoughts on things.
01:16:12.159 --> 01:16:14.159
Just me, really.
01:16:14.880 --> 01:16:16.159
It's really good, you guys.
01:16:16.399 --> 01:16:16.479
Yeah.
01:16:18.079 --> 01:16:19.279
Great outfits too.
01:16:19.439 --> 01:16:19.920
Yes.
01:16:21.199 --> 01:16:22.479
Well, thank you so much.
01:16:22.720 --> 01:16:23.920
Thank you so much for having me.
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:27.680
It means a lot to me to have this opportunity to defend my favorite.
01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:28.800
Yeah.
01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:29.680
And you know what?
01:16:29.760 --> 01:16:30.800
You've kind of swayed me.
01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:31.039
Yeah.
01:16:31.279 --> 01:16:32.720
I'm kind of loving it now.
01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:35.600
I might read 800 pages all over again.
01:16:37.039 --> 01:16:38.239
I'm like, you know what?
01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:39.039
It was great.
01:16:39.279 --> 01:16:40.319
He's a good man.
01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:45.039
Well, that was an absolute delight.
01:16:45.199 --> 01:16:48.319
And honestly, I could be swayed.
01:16:49.439 --> 01:16:53.119
We are nothing if not persuaded by a cohesive argument.
01:16:53.359 --> 01:16:53.760
Yes.
01:16:54.079 --> 01:16:56.159
Someone smarter and wiser, tick.
01:16:56.399 --> 01:16:57.039
Tick.
01:16:57.840 --> 01:16:58.960
Someone we think is cool.
01:16:59.039 --> 01:16:59.760
Yep, we'll do whatever.
01:16:59.920 --> 01:17:01.039
Whatever we need.
01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:04.319
She's got a great fringe and opinions to boot.
01:17:05.359 --> 01:17:06.239
Thank you, Ren.
01:17:06.319 --> 01:17:06.960
That was a pleasure.
01:17:07.279 --> 01:17:10.880
I don't think there's anything about this book that we could say better than Ren.
01:17:10.960 --> 01:17:16.960
And so I think it must be time to move on to the tail end of the show and discuss our favourite and least favourite characters.
01:17:17.119 --> 01:17:18.960
Bridget, would you care to do the honours?
01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:21.840
I fear I'm going to be a little bit controversial.
01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:26.000
And I'm gonna say my favourite character was Black Jack Randall.
01:17:26.560 --> 01:17:27.520
Awful man.
01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:30.000
Do not condone his actions.
01:17:30.319 --> 01:17:32.079
But did he keep me interested?
01:17:32.239 --> 01:17:33.119
Yes, he did.
01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:35.199
Always keep them guessing.
01:17:35.359 --> 01:17:36.640
He was so scary.
01:17:36.800 --> 01:17:37.840
And I'm intrigued.
01:17:38.079 --> 01:17:39.520
He was genuinely scary.
01:17:39.840 --> 01:17:41.439
He was very sinister.
01:17:42.000 --> 01:17:46.800
I don't know that I was capable of understanding the full scope of how terrible he was.
01:17:46.880 --> 01:17:52.079
Like, I don't know if it was imparted on me in the way that I needed, just due to the nature of this writing.
01:17:52.239 --> 01:17:56.000
Yeah, I don't know if I understand why he's like pursuing Jamie.
01:17:56.159 --> 01:17:58.800
That could be my fault for not reading the book closely.
01:17:59.039 --> 01:18:02.399
He was very much giving uh I have to find the Avatar.
01:18:02.560 --> 01:18:08.479
Like he's just Zuko from Avatar, but without any redeeming qualities and a thousand times more evil.
01:18:08.640 --> 01:18:14.000
Yeah, I thought he was so scary, and he's not a character that I often read.
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:14.399
Yes.
01:18:14.640 --> 01:18:16.640
If that makes sense, or like encounter.
01:18:16.880 --> 01:18:21.119
So I did find him quite interesting, and like he was this foreboding presence across the whole book.
01:18:21.600 --> 01:18:22.479
Yeah, he's my favourite.
01:18:22.560 --> 01:18:23.520
Who's your favourite?
01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:25.359
Forgot we were doing favourite.
01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:26.560
Sorry.
01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:29.199
I was gonna be like, he's my least favourite too.
01:18:29.520 --> 01:18:34.319
Um I think my favourite character quite randomly is Ned Gowan.
01:18:34.880 --> 01:18:36.239
He was a banker.
01:18:36.720 --> 01:18:40.720
And oh I just thought he's gonna be a slimy little turd.
01:18:41.039 --> 01:18:43.439
But he was kind of a ride of die for Claire.
01:18:43.520 --> 01:18:49.520
Like when he rocked up to speak on her behalf when she was being tried as a witch, and she said something like, Oh, are you here for Dougla and Callum?
01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:50.640
I can't quite remember.
01:18:50.800 --> 01:18:53.760
And he was like, No, I'm here for myself.
01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:55.760
And I just really liked that.
01:18:55.840 --> 01:18:57.199
I thought it was quite unexpected.
01:18:57.359 --> 01:18:57.680
Yeah.
01:18:57.920 --> 01:19:06.640
I'm gonna change my answer to that man because I did honestly forget he existed, and I did like him because I imagined him as like Mole Man in The Simpsons.
01:19:07.279 --> 01:19:08.640
I was picturing Mr.
01:19:08.720 --> 01:19:10.960
Collins from 2005, Pride and Prejudice.
01:19:11.199 --> 01:19:12.159
So same kind of vibe.
01:19:12.319 --> 01:19:12.560
Yeah.
01:19:12.720 --> 01:19:15.039
Um stuffed Black Jack Randall.
01:19:15.119 --> 01:19:15.760
I'm going for him.
01:19:16.319 --> 01:19:18.319
To be honest, it was a crazy choice to begin with.
01:19:18.560 --> 01:19:23.680
It was a crazy choice, and I think it's just because I don't really care for Claire.
01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:33.439
And I mean, I like Jamie more now after speaking to Ren, but also I'm not often picking the male main, like the romance.
01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:34.239
Almost never.
01:19:34.399 --> 01:19:34.800
As my fave.
01:19:35.039 --> 01:19:36.640
Ned Gowan, he's my favourite.
01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:37.920
Who's your least favourite?
01:19:38.079 --> 01:19:47.600
I don't really have a least favourite, but I I would also go in for Ren's least favourite of Jamie's former paramour whose name begins with L.
01:19:48.399 --> 01:19:50.640
Sorry to the entirety of Scotland there.
01:19:50.800 --> 01:19:53.439
I do not have it in my heart to try to pronounce that name.
01:19:53.920 --> 01:20:01.199
I just think aside from being annoying and meddling, it's quite a predictable path for a character like that to take.
01:20:01.359 --> 01:20:05.680
Just spiteful and like, yeah, great antagonist, but rack off, please.
01:20:05.840 --> 01:20:06.079
Yeah.
01:20:06.319 --> 01:20:07.039
How about you?
01:20:07.279 --> 01:20:09.840
My least favourite is also Jack Black Randall.
01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:12.640
And when he was my favourite, he was also gonna be my least favourite.
01:20:13.199 --> 01:20:14.000
You contain multitudes.
01:20:14.399 --> 01:20:18.319
He's gonna be my both, but he's also been demoted to only least.
01:20:20.159 --> 01:20:21.439
Same reasons as above.
01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:23.359
He was mean, he was awful, he was scary.
01:20:23.520 --> 01:20:24.159
Yeah.
01:20:24.560 --> 01:20:25.119
Stunning.
01:20:25.359 --> 01:20:37.039
And now we finally arrived at the pinnacle of the episode, and I feel like for the first time in a long time, I'm genuinely uncertain on the edge of my seat, salivating, fearful, afraid, scared.
01:20:37.279 --> 01:20:38.239
All of the above.
01:20:38.399 --> 01:20:40.000
I don't know which way this is gonna go.
01:20:40.239 --> 01:20:47.199
Bridget, sorry to make you go first, but do you rate Outlander by Diana Gabaldon lit or shit?
01:20:47.359 --> 01:20:48.880
I don't know how this is gonna go either.
01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:52.399
In my mind, I'm like thinking about all of the books we've read.
01:20:52.560 --> 01:20:56.720
I'm thinking the books we've rated lit, thinking about the books we've rated shit.
01:20:56.960 --> 01:20:59.199
And I think it might have to be a lit.
01:20:59.279 --> 01:21:04.560
If I compare it to other books that I have rated shit, it's not in the same league.
01:21:04.720 --> 01:21:06.000
I think I'm gonna go lit.
01:21:06.319 --> 01:21:08.159
The heart wants what the heart wants.
01:21:09.199 --> 01:21:10.399
What about you?
01:21:10.720 --> 01:21:16.960
Oh, I don't know, because you know, if I weren't reading this for the podcast, I wouldn't have persevered.
01:21:17.119 --> 01:21:19.359
I wouldn't have picked it up or persevered.
01:21:19.520 --> 01:21:22.479
I would have picked it up, but I would have been sorely disappointed.
01:21:22.640 --> 01:21:24.560
I don't know if I would recommend this to people.
01:21:24.720 --> 01:21:32.159
I don't tend to recommend books that I myself didn't enjoy because it feels a bit backhanded to be like, I hated this book, but you might enjoy it.
01:21:32.399 --> 01:21:36.079
That said, I feel like I can see what people would get out of this.
01:21:36.239 --> 01:21:38.720
It's what I was searching for, but just didn't find.
01:21:38.800 --> 01:21:41.439
And it's that kind of comfort, it's coziness.
01:21:41.840 --> 01:21:44.319
I want to be able to just sink myself into a series.
01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:45.760
We've tried a few times.
01:21:45.920 --> 01:21:46.880
I haven't found it yet.
01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:48.560
I haven't answered the question.
01:21:48.800 --> 01:21:49.760
Oh, sorry.
01:21:50.079 --> 01:21:50.880
Back off.
01:21:51.199 --> 01:21:58.960
Um I um, you know, sometimes tell me.
01:21:59.279 --> 01:22:02.399
My ears are open and so is my mind.
01:22:02.880 --> 01:22:04.800
Good, because you're gonna need it.
01:22:05.199 --> 01:22:11.199
Sometimes when a person goes to the toilet, they do a poo.
01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:15.520
And then when they look in the bowl, no poo.
01:22:15.680 --> 01:22:16.319
Ghost poo.
01:22:16.479 --> 01:22:17.359
Ghost poo.
01:22:18.159 --> 01:22:23.920
I think I could be about to award the first ever ghost poo rating on the show.
01:22:25.039 --> 01:22:26.880
What does that even mean?
01:22:28.159 --> 01:22:30.079
I barely understand.
01:22:31.920 --> 01:22:33.840
Look, I'm gonna give it a lit.
01:22:34.079 --> 01:22:34.319
Oof.
01:22:34.720 --> 01:22:36.800
Because I did think the writing was good.
01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:39.119
No, neither.
01:22:40.079 --> 01:22:42.640
I just decided I have to make a decision one way or another.
01:22:42.960 --> 01:22:44.399
Ren's persuaded me.
01:22:44.640 --> 01:22:44.800
Yeah.
01:22:46.319 --> 01:22:50.399
Imagine like the fate of some of the other books if we'd had someone on the show.
01:22:50.640 --> 01:22:53.439
Like, could history be pulled back?
01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:54.239
I don't know.
01:22:54.800 --> 01:22:55.920
We should test that theory.
01:22:56.079 --> 01:23:01.119
I'm looking at the stack, and uh to be honest, I'm pretty doubtful that that theory has much weight.
01:23:01.279 --> 01:23:04.479
It's a lit, but it is a whisper of poo.
01:23:04.880 --> 01:23:06.880
I mean Oh, I see.
01:23:07.039 --> 01:23:07.600
I understand.
01:23:07.680 --> 01:23:08.319
Yeah, okay.
01:23:08.640 --> 01:23:12.560
It's it's lit, but it's just teetering on the brink.
01:23:12.640 --> 01:23:13.920
It's so close to me.
01:23:14.159 --> 01:23:15.840
I think uh it's the same for me, yeah.
01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:18.399
And we'll think about it more at the end of year wrap-ups.
01:23:18.800 --> 01:23:21.520
I'll be thinking about this for the next week, and I'll be like, uh, I don't know.
01:23:21.600 --> 01:23:22.079
I don't know.
01:23:22.239 --> 01:23:24.960
Sometimes I completely change my mind in the next week.
01:23:25.119 --> 01:23:25.439
Yeah.
01:23:25.680 --> 01:23:29.520
But I did finish this a few days ago, so I've had a bit of breathing room.
01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:32.880
I really liked probably the second half onwards.
01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:41.600
Um, that's when all the action was, and that makes me feel quite dumb to say to be like, I like the bits where they running and they jumping, and like blah blah blah.
01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:45.520
I liked it when they went swimming, when the cows were in the prison.
01:23:45.760 --> 01:23:48.479
I love the bit when the cows were in the prison.
01:23:48.640 --> 01:23:49.520
That's my favorite bit.
01:23:49.760 --> 01:23:51.039
When she's a fortune teller.
01:23:51.520 --> 01:23:51.840
Oh.
01:23:52.319 --> 01:23:58.079
Actually, we forgot to talk about the fortune teller, but when I read the line, hang on, I highlighted it.
01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:05.600
I made my debut as singer and fortune teller that night at Lim Rai with considerable success.
01:24:05.840 --> 01:24:08.239
I I have to I was teetering on the edge.
01:24:08.319 --> 01:24:13.359
I was so tired after like a quite a busy week of work, and I was like, you're kidding me.
01:24:13.600 --> 01:24:17.760
And this is while they're on their way to bust Jamie out of prison slash certain death.
01:24:18.079 --> 01:24:19.279
This is still 77%.
01:24:21.199 --> 01:24:23.600
I've still got hundreds of pages to go.
01:24:23.840 --> 01:24:28.800
I think where I really struggled was the fact that she's time traveled away from her booth.
01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:29.359
Yes.
01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:32.960
That felt crazy to say, but I'm committing to it anyway.
01:24:33.680 --> 01:24:36.960
And she doesn't really have too many thoughts about him.
01:24:37.199 --> 01:24:37.359
No.
01:24:37.680 --> 01:24:42.560
And almost immediately she's like, I settled into the routine of castle life quite quickly.
01:24:43.439 --> 01:24:44.479
No thoughts.
01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:44.880
No.
01:24:45.119 --> 01:24:47.840
Beyond wow, this is here and now.
01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:51.279
She's barely curious about how to get back.
01:24:51.439 --> 01:24:53.199
What how did I get here?
01:24:53.359 --> 01:24:54.399
What are the mechanics?
01:24:54.560 --> 01:24:56.720
She's like, oh yes, 200 years.
01:24:56.800 --> 01:24:58.000
That's normally how the story goes.
01:24:58.159 --> 01:24:59.920
I guess I'm 200 years in the past.
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:02.880
I wonder if I would go 200 years the opposite way.
01:25:03.039 --> 01:25:05.680
Oh well, anyway, I ate an oat cake.
01:25:06.079 --> 01:25:10.720
To be fair, I kind of liked that because it was over and done with.
01:25:10.960 --> 01:25:13.600
She was like, okay, I've accepted my lot in life.
01:25:13.760 --> 01:25:14.720
This is me now.
01:25:14.800 --> 01:25:15.600
I'm this is it.
01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:19.840
And as far as time travel goes, the less you think about it, the more questions you have.
01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:21.600
So I respect it on that front.
01:25:21.760 --> 01:25:22.000
Yes.
01:25:22.159 --> 01:25:30.479
She was out here, I mean, as we learned, she's out here inventing penicillin, being like, oop, hopefully this doesn't change the course of history.
01:25:31.119 --> 01:25:31.600
Yeah.
01:25:31.840 --> 01:25:37.760
And I also had to respect her when she like had the chance to go back.
01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:42.640
And she was like, my new husband is pretty hot.
01:25:42.880 --> 01:25:43.199
Yeah.
01:25:43.439 --> 01:25:44.800
And smashed.
01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:50.000
And I can just like ride around on a horse in the Scottish countryside.
01:25:50.399 --> 01:25:53.119
I'm not saying I would do the same, but maybe I would do the same.
01:25:53.439 --> 01:25:54.720
I think I could thrive here.
01:25:54.960 --> 01:25:56.640
I wouldn't be getting sunburned, that's for sure.
01:25:57.199 --> 01:25:58.880
Yeah, born for this.
01:26:00.239 --> 01:26:06.159
Our bonus chapter for this month is our recurring bookish Dolly Doctor episode, Talk Lit with us.
01:26:06.399 --> 01:26:11.199
Have your say on what we read next by keeping an eye on the link in our show notes and on our socials.
01:26:11.439 --> 01:26:19.439
Make sure you subscribe to the show, and if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklit.gethit on Instagram and TikTok.