Jaimie Alexander | Bourbon Addiction, Near-Death Awakening, & Spiritual Recovery

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This is after like Thor came out.
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I get chills now every time I tell this story because it is so with me still this many years later.
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But I was like, oh my God, I'm an alcoholic.
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And as soon as I made that choice, all the doctors came in.
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And I know this to be true now because I asked.
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I was like, did I tell you guys I loved you before the surgery?
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And they're like, yeah, you were really like very happy.
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Oh my gosh.
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Hi everyone and welcome to today's episode of Recovery Cast.
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Today we are joined by Jamie Alexander, a celebrated actress known for her roles in shows like Blind Spot and Marvel's Thor series.
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After years of balancing the extreme physical demands of action stardom with a private battle against burnout and substance use, Jamie joins us to share how she has reclaimed her mental health through sobriety while continuing to thrive in an industry that she loves.
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Jamie, welcome.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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Thank you for having me.
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Yes, this is huge.
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This is huge.
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I'm really, really excited to get into your recovery story because I think there's so many parts that are relatable, but also it started a bit later.
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It wasn't something that was like early on.
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So before we dive into that, I would love to know about like little Jamie and what got you into acting.
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Like, when did you know that was something you'd be interested in?
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Oh man, little Jamie.
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She's still here.
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I love that.
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Yeah, I will forever be little Jamie.
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When I was growing up in Texas, I took drama in the seventh grade because I didn't want to take a foreign language.
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I was just lazy.
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I was like, that'll work.
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I can, you know, dick around on a stage.
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Yeah.
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And so I went into it and I had a really lovely teacher named Dan Duncan.
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And he told me, I think when I was in the eighth grade, he said, you know, he pulled me aside and he goes, I think you could be one of the people that actually do this for a living.
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And now growing up in in what was a very small town and it's now quite metropolitan, I thought, there's no way I'm like a poor kid from Texas.
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Like I'm not, you know, how are they gonna fight me?
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Yeah, how how is that gonna happen?
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Like, you know, some miracle.
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And that's kind of what happened, to be honest.
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But I went into high school, got kicked out of drama class because I couldn't sing.
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And um, everybody thinks I can and I can't.
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You couldn't even be a tree.
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No, I I tried.
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I actually said, look, can I just I could be, I don't know, you know, and um the teacher, Mrs.
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Ashlock, I will name drop.
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Okay.
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Uh, she just thought, you know, I would be better off in sports, which I was already doing.
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And so I became a high school wrestler.
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And so cool.
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Yes.
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And that was really fun.
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And it sort of prepped me for what I do now, you know, in my in the roles that I take.
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They're quite heavy, uh stunt-wise.
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One day I was 17, and my best girlfriend Lisa, who's still a good friend of mine today, very introverted individual, decided we were at a mall, got scouted, and um for like model.
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Yeah.
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And that was huge back then.
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Because we were like, what who me?
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I did one for America's Next Top Model.
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I was convinced I was gonna make it.
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I was like, speak up, guys.
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Are you ready to take me?
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Nobody said it.
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Okay, this is crazy because Jay Manuel is like one of my best friends.
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And he's fumbled the ball.
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Okay, no, exactly.
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Yeah, I'll let him know.
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He's gonna see this, and everybody should know.
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Jay.
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Jay.
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You fumbled the ball.
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Yeah, no.
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If he if he saw you right now, he'd be like, oh, he wasn't there.
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It was a sub.
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So I feel like if he was, then he's forgiven.
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Totally made it.
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But that's the thing, right?
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It was like such a big deal.
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And and it was like this showcase in Dallas.
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And so the caveat was you have to pay$900.
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I think it was like$900.
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And I thought, oh, I can't, I can't afford that.
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I was working like three after school jobs.
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I was like, there's no way.
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And Lisa um could.
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And so she paid.
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And I think her thought was like, you know, oh, it's something we can do together.
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And I could go with her to like their rehearsals.
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And she was never in drama or anything.
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And so I think she was kind of like, yeah, you could help me do this.
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And I was like, okay.
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But at that point, I was a wrestler.
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Like I wasn't in drama.
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And so I went with her a few times.
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Two days before the competition, she got her wisdom teeth out.
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And whatever the medicine, I think it's called LauraTab or something, the liquid pain medicine they give you if you're under 18, made her vomit.
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Like she was very, very sick.
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And she was like, You have to go in my place because they won't refund my money.
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And I was like, Whoa, okay.
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Um, and so her mother took me to this competition and I showed up in like my wrestling sweats because I didn't know.
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I thought I was like, I didn't know what I was supposed to bring.
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She didn't tell me.
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Like, this is for my monologue.
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Yeah.
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I was like, and then they were like, Do you have a monologue?
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And I was like, no.
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And then they gave me this little clip.
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I think, I think it was a Nike ad, and they told me to do it like G.I.
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Jane, like to me more and G.I.
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Jane.
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And I thought, well, I can do that.
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I'm like kind of jacked right now.
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And so, and somehow I memorized it really fast.
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Went out on stage, did it, got eight out of nine callbacks from the agents that were in the audience, which was like the highest out of anybody there, which was like one of those things where I was like, okay, but what does that mean?
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And then met with the agents.
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Now the modeling portion was the next day.
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I bombed that.
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Like I got out there, I was like in heels.
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This woman let me borrow her dress, who I had seen do a model from Clueless the day before.
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Totally different from me.
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Um, and she was so, so nice though.
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And I went out on stage and I was so awkward.
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I like went to the very end of the stage and turned around and like walked right back off.
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I didn't wave, I didn't pose, I didn't sprint.
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Yeah, I was like, get me out of this.
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And um, there just happened to be at the time a very famous manager in from LA in that audience.
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He was filling in for his wife's friend who went into labor early.
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My gosh.
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So this was like, I'm telling you, it I couldn't have avoided this if I had a crazy series of events.
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Yes, yeah.
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It was meant to be.
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So then after I graduated a year later, I moved out to LA thinking that like I would do commercials or something and make money enough to go to college.
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Like in my brain, I didn't, I didn't know that I could go this far, you know?
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Um, and it took a while.
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It took like four years or so of like working so many jobs, waitressing, cleaning bathrooms, you know, working.
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I think I worked at a I worked at an Abercrombie and Fitch because it was.
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Me too was the thing.
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Yeah, it was a fan of related.
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Yeah.
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This is the thing.
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We're just like, yeah.
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It wasn't that a time though.
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They didn't pay well enough.
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Oh my God, no.
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But like you can make extra money if you stood at the front and took pictures of people coming into this.
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I was like, whatever.
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Um, but yeah, I worked all these jobs, you know, and then action became very popular for women.
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So I was able to start working more consistently.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And you did, and I did, yeah.
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And it's just something really, really incredible roles.
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And I feel like 2011, just the roles kind of skyrocketed for you.
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And what is that experience like?
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Like you did, you put in that work for four years, you're out there, and then it takes off.
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What is that like just experiencing that level of fame?
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You know, it's funny.
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I get asked this a lot.
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Um, for me, I had a lot of like gradual steps to being known and to working.
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Like I didn't have something that was like a legit like catapult.
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You know, I didn't get famous overnight, which I think if I had, would have been not good to me.
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Like, you know, I'm I'm actually now that I know this about myself, I mean, before getting sober, I didn't really realize I'm I'm an introvert.
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Like I'm quiet and and so I mean, I can turn it on when I need to, of course.
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That's my job.
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But I think if I had been catapulted super fast, it would have, it wouldn't have been very good for me.
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And so I was able to, I got work on a series called Kyle XY for a little while.
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Um, that was, you know, well liked, but wasn't super crazy popular.
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You know, nobody kind of really to differ.
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Well, I mean.
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I mean, certain people, of course, yeah.
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But it was, you know, it was nice because I got I got my foot in the door and then and then I got Thor.
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And the thing about Thor was I, my series, Kyle XY, got canceled.
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Then there was a writer strike.
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So I, and we didn't really make anything on that series.
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We were paid very little.
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We're talking like like a little bit less than a soap star.
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Like it was very little.
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And so I came back down and I had to get a bartending job while my show was on the television in the bar.
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That's interesting.
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And it was one of those things where I was like, this is um incredibly humbling, you know, when people are like, isn't that you?
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And then, and then I'm there cleaning up vomit in the women's bathroom.
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It was like an Ohio State football bar.
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And I am from Texas, so that was awkward.
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We're aware of Ohio State.
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There are arrivals.
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Yep.
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Yeah.
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So you get it.
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That is such a yeah, I feel like people don't really consider that part where it's like not everybody just has this thing where it's like, boom, you're up there.
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It's like you're just everywhere right now.
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People have these like gradual steps of these like hit things that help them in their ladders.
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But in that, there has to be some time where you're like, but I'm I still have to like work.
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Yeah, I had to take care of myself.
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I was like, look, I don't know when I'm gonna get another job.
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And and I remember auditioning, I was like one of the last people to audition for Lady Sif and Thor.
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And I, you know, I went in thinking, like, yeah, this is me.
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You know, I can do these stunts, and you know, I have four brothers and she has the Warriors three, and like there were so many parallels.
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And I looked enough like the comic book drawing to be considered.
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And but still I was like, I'm nobody, nobody, you know, all these big famous actresses were were wanting the role.
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And and I just I remember leaving the audition and going home because I had to work that night starting at 9 p.m.
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And I cried and I took a nap and I woke up and I went to work and I had all these missed calls on my phone.
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And and I was, you know, I called my manager at the time and I uh of my acting manager and just said, you know, I'm I'm going to work, but I saw I missed your call.
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And he said, Yeah, Sir Kenneth Branna wants to Skype with you.
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They really liked your tape.
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And I was like, What?
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And I just thought, well, that that's I I it was so unexpected.
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Yeah.
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And I went to work and and and I remember that night I was mopping up legit vomit in the female, like in the women's restroom because it was a big beer beer pong place.
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And um, and I just had this weird feeling.
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I was like, I'm okay if I have to work here for the rest of my life, and I'm also okay if I get that opportunity.
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And it was like the first time that I was like, I'm okay no matter what.
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Yeah.
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Like no matter what, like I can take care of myself.
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I'm healthy, I'm able to do this.
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And if my dream doesn't come true in that, I will make a life for myself in a some other way.
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And I I just remember that feeling and then then went back and put myself on tape again uh with what Ken wanted me to do.
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And then I ended up getting the job.
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And it was like, I told them I was like, look, I have to keep bartending while I'm training for this film because I I don't have any money.
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And they gave me an advance on my paycheck so that I could, you know, because they were like, Look, you you can't work there.
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We need you here every day, like training stunts and fittings.
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And but I just remember being like, this is happening.
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This is so crazy.
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And the first film specifically, the main theme is humility.
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Yeah.
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And I just remember being like, oh, and I was so every day was just so I was so happy and so excited.
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And everybody on the film was so nice and it was such a good experience.
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But again, it like it gave me a little bit more of a name, but I wouldn't say it catapulted me.
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You know, I still had to like, there were years where I barely got a job after that.
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And then I had to, you know, and luckily there were, you know, a couple other installments of the series, but I I still had to try really hard.
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And then at one point, you know, Blind Spot came along and I was like, this feels like me.
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And and then I met with the creator and he said, I wrote this with you in mine.
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He's like, I wanted to give a Canadian a lead.
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And I remember being like, um, I was like, I'm I'm from Texas.
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And he was like, What?
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I was like, what?
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I was like, I'm not from Canada.
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And he I he go, Is this, do you still want me to do this?
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And and I remember because he I think he thought I was Canadian because Kyle XY shot in Vancouver.
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Yeah.
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And I was like, sorry to let you down.
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I'm from the other Canada, Texas.
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That's hilarious.
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So it was a lot of gradual steps.
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So I want to get into when alcohol kind of makes its appearance in your story.
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But also I'm curious, what is your relationship with like alcohol or any type of substance prior to it affecting your life?
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Growing up, I never drank.
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Yeah.
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In school, I was very responsible.
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I was an athlete.
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I looked after my little brother a lot.
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So I it just was never on the table.
00:11:54.799 --> 00:12:01.440
And and I also, there's something I had, like, I don't know if I was just cocky or what, but I was just like, what a pansy way out.
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:02.960
You know, I was like, I'm not gonna be like them.
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:05.279
I'm gonna, you know, lift weights and get straight, you know, yeah.
00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:06.480
I don't know what I was thinking.
00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:11.360
But I remember when I was 18, I think I tried Miller Light or something.
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:12.960
And I was like, this tastes like shit.
00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:14.799
I'm not gonna like what a waste of time.
00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:15.919
And so I never drank again.
00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:23.360
And then when I moved out to Los Angeles, um, I realized like it was very social to do these things, you know, and and I was so uncomfortable.
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:32.000
That that's really the reason I drank was I was so uncomfortable being in big crowds and being around people and having people look at me.
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:35.840
And I I didn't, you know, I didn't know it then, but I know it now.
00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:37.679
I remember being at this club.
00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.320
I was 19, wasn't supposed to be there, by the way.
00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:42.399
Uh, but as you do when you're young.
00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:49.360
But I was sitting at this table and and this actor uh I had just met, it was like a bunch of people, and there was Jack Daniels on the table.
00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:51.840
And I was just like, oh I'll have that, you know.
00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:52.639
I I don't know.
00:12:52.879 --> 00:13:01.200
And I just remember shooting it, you know, like just down my throat, like, you know, but the relief it gave me, all of a sudden I just did not care what people thought.
00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:02.799
And I wasn't drunk by any means.
00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:04.000
It was just a slight buzz.
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:04.960
And I thought, cool.
00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:06.399
So that became the thing.
00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:08.320
Bourbon ended up being my thing.
00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:09.200
It was medication.
00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:10.240
It was not fun.
00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:13.519
It was always, you know, a means to an end.
00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:16.960
It's like if I need to do X, Y, and Z, then I gotta have this in my system.
00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.639
And it didn't really cross a line until about 2011.
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.159
I just remember one night I was so sad.
00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:30.320
And I, you know, it's funny because I cannot remember why, but I remember sitting on my apartment balcony in LA.
00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:34.080
And this is after like Thor came out, the first Thor.
00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:41.519
And um, I was sitting there and I had a bottle of Jameson, and one of my buddies was with me, and and he ended up leaving.
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:45.919
And um, and I sat there on the balcony by myself and drank the entire bottle.
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:52.399
And I woke up still not feeling well, like very, you know, uh, probably drunk still.
00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.279
And I went to an audition like that and I bombed it.
00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.399
And the guy that I remember the casting director said, What are you, method?
00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:00.720
Because I was playing a drug addict in the audition.
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:01.200
Yeah.
00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:02.320
And I was like, What?
00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:02.720
No.
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:04.080
And then he's like, You stink.
00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:05.440
He's like, get out of my office.
00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:11.200
And I just remember being like, Oh, and I left and I and I was so angry and so embarrassed.
00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:12.799
And then I was like, What did I do?
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.279
You know, and then kind of stepped away from it again.
00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:21.840
Um, you know, would drink occasionally not too much, but I remember that time specifically was like, whoa, that was that was a lot.
00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:23.039
That's not normal for me.
00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:24.960
And then it just it got worse and worse.
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.240
It was mostly again medicating.
00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:33.519
So I would have a little bit of alcohol before, you know, I would drive to an audition or a big meeting.
00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:42.159
Cause by that point I was meeting with, you know, studio heads and producers and directors, and and everybody expected me to like show up on my motorcycle and do all this other stuff.
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:43.440
And I didn't do that when I drank.
00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:48.480
I was lucky enough to not be like that far gone, where I was like, Yeah, let me get on a motorbike in LA.
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:49.279
You can do anything.
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:53.360
Yeah, you know, I kind of knew I was like, don't, don't do that, you know.
00:14:53.600 --> 00:15:00.720
But I would drive to an audition and then in my console in the car, I'd have a bottle of whiskey and I would drink it.
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:07.519
I would drink like three or four shots, and then I would chew gum or whatever it was, and I'd walk over to the office and get in the audition and get the job.
00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.919
And I would be sitting far enough away from people where they didn't smell it, they never said anything.
00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.639
They apparently I never slurred, you know, my speech.
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:16.159
I never added wrong on a check.
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:25.360
I was beyond in control when I had that stuff in my system, which is very unusual now that I have met several people with the same um addiction issues.
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:28.960
But I just, it was a way that I would feel in control.
00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:31.840
And this carried on for a while.
00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:34.720
There were a few times I drank while I was working.
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:39.440
It would be something where, you know, I was in the background of a shot, not talking or something, and just standing there.
00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:44.000
And I would just like go, I'm bored, you know, and I'd go in my trailer and have a shot of whiskey or something.
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:48.080
And but I um it was mostly after work.
00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:52.399
It it really kicked into overdrive around 2013, 2014.
00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.679
And then when I got on blind spot, I was in a lot of physical pain a lot.
00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:57.759
I had a lot of chemical burns on my skin.
00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:01.360
I had a lot of injuries, dislocated shoulder, broken nose, like um yeah.
00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.360
The roles you take are pretty intense.
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:03.840
Yeah.
00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:10.480
That one specifically, the pace of that was it for anybody, you you know, would would have been impossible.
00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:20.000
It was like, you know, I'd do two fight scenes a day, which were pretty intricate, and then have a whole day of out dialogue, not to mention, you know, if I'd put the full body tattoos on, it was nine and a half hours.
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:31.919
So then I'd have to go to work and do all these fights that I was learning on the fly, and then getting punched, getting hit, getting, you know, you know, fire going off, getting lit on fire, getting, you know, there were just it was just constant chaos.
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.440
And I think it just started to take a toll on me that I and your nervous system.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:36.639
I can't imagine how that was.
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:37.120
Yeah.
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:42.240
It's like inside, outside, your whole body's just really taking hit after hit every single day.
00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:44.000
And I was very lonely, you know.
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:50.399
I I um ended an engagement to somebody in 2016, and I just was so lost.
00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:56.480
And and the thing was like I've often heard and and quite agree with addiction being a spiritual malady.
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:04.400
And and I just didn't have, I didn't feel that I had anyone that could help me or anyone I could trust.
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.480
I was always the person that everybody came to for help.
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:08.559
You know, I had to have my shit together always.
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:14.000
And it was hard, you know, and and I would go home and I would drink quite a lot of bourbon to be able to sleep.
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:16.240
Like I just couldn't sleep, I would be in so much pain.
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.119
I mean, and it was so odd because I wouldn't take like an Advil.
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:19.759
I don't know why.
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:21.519
I was like, eh, you know, I don't need that.
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:22.720
It'll hurt my tummy or something.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:23.759
Those are bad for me.
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:24.880
Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.119
Like talk about, you know, that's the thing.
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:28.720
Addiction crosses your wires.
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:31.599
I mean, you you don't have right size thinking or sanity.
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:37.039
You're you and then it just got to the point where I started to realize like I could not not have it.
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:43.279
And I remember there were a few nights where I would go and I'd go to my bar cart in my place, pour a drink, but I didn't want it.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.599
It was, it was just like, oh, I'm I'm I'm tired enough.
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:47.359
I just want to take a bath and go to bed.
00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:49.680
And I but I just drank, I would shoot it.
00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:50.480
I wouldn't even enjoy it.
00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:52.559
I would get it down like autopilot like this.
00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:53.920
Medication, man, always.
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:55.359
Like I was like, get it down the hatch.
00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.160
Now, luckily, I never crossed into drugs.
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.519
Drugs are not a part of my story.
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:03.200
I I probably tried pot like three or four times, and I was an absolute lunatic.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:04.079
I hated that stuff.
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.240
I was like, I do not understand this drug.
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:07.200
I can't mo.
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:08.000
Not for me.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:08.480
So long.
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:09.279
Not for me.
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:09.759
Yeah.
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:15.200
I was just like, this is not the type of uh high or buzz that I like.
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:17.599
But for me, I I just stuck to bourbon.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:18.319
It was very odd.
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:23.680
I'd never had like my ties or mojitos or whatever, no mixed drinks ever.
00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:25.839
Um, occasionally champagne, occasionally.
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.000
Um, really, it was just bourbon, and it was three, it was three types.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:32.720
And this, I mean, I must have some form of OCD.
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:34.319
They all started with a B.
00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:37.759
It was Blanton's, Basil Hayden's, and um Bullet.
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.240
Okay.
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:48.559
So I again, uh the the funny thing about, you know, I found at least in my active addiction, is the the rules I put around it, the parameters, like, okay, it has to be one of these three.
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:49.519
Ritualists.
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.480
It has to be fancy.
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:51.359
It has to be nice.
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:55.920
Straight, no ice, just like straight up, you know, it was crazy.
00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:05.039
And so I realized like these were all attempts to try to control something that had a death grip over me that I could not figure out.
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:10.319
And uh it got to a point where it, you know, almost died in a hospital.
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:18.640
Have you since kind of figured out what it was that was having a hold of over you that you were leaning into that so heavily?
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:23.759
You know, it was a lack of it was a lack of self-respect and self-love.
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.720
And it was a lack, it was, it was a lot of self-doubt.
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:30.720
It was like, if I don't have this in my system, then I'm nobody.
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:31.759
I'm not good enough.
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:32.880
I don't deserve this job.
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:34.640
I don't deserve the money I'm making.
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:38.559
I I I don't deserve, I don't deserve, I don't deserve, I'm not worthy, I'm not enough.
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:39.519
That was the thing.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.079
I could not get that to shut off in my head.
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:46.319
And when I had a drink, it was kind of like, oh, but if I have that, then I'm good.
00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:52.240
Then I'm enough, then I can do this, then I do deserve it, and I can show it for people and I can muscle through, even though I'm in pain.
00:19:52.319 --> 00:20:05.759
I can ignore the fact that I dislocated my shoulder yesterday and still do the knife bite and still, you know, I just thought if I fail, if I break or show any kind of what I thought was weakness, right, then I'm I'm toast.
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.240
Then everybody's gonna suffer around me and no one's gonna have a job and everything's gonna go to shit.
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:13.279
And and I just put all this crazy pressure on myself.
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:17.039
And this comes from my childhood because back then, yeah, that was the case.
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:19.759
If I didn't do X, Y, and Z, it was bad.
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.200
Are you an oldest daughter?
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.119
No, I have one younger, one older biological, and then two older stepbrothers.
00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:32.400
But I was definitely the person, like the rock, like the, you know, there were a lot of things that I encountered in my childhood.
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:36.000
You know, there was like violence and sexual abuse and a lot of abuse.
00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:46.000
And I eventually at some point got old enough and big enough, especially when I started to train in sports and became a wrestler, that one of the abusers.
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.920
But I remember looking at him and being like, take your best shot.
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:53.599
And I was so like, I didn't care.
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:55.440
And he never did it again.
00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.240
And and and I remember him like, I was like, I'm actually bigger than you, I'm taller than you.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:05.759
I had so much rage that I was like, you are never gonna hurt my mother or my brothers ever again, or I will kill you.
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:09.440
And I remember feeling like that is real, like that's true.
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:14.559
And like that, you know, obviously sorted itself and went away, and everything is okay now.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:28.319
But it was just that moment where I was like, oh, I have this power inside of me, but I need to keep a control over it because the fact that I could be somebody that would hurt somebody, um, even though it is being, you know, I'm protective.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:33.039
I would never actually, you know, I'm I'm like the least firework person ever, despite the characters I play.
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:36.000
Um I'm like, I'm really a marshmallow.
00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:37.279
Um that's been roasted.
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:40.559
Um but yeah, it's you know, I had that in me.
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:46.880
And so there's a level of responsibility that I have regarding that side of my personality, that I am very protective.
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:56.480
And and it's interesting because I thought having that bourbon in my system gave me that rage, like gave me that toughness that I could protect somebody with.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:57.519
And it it didn't.
00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:59.519
I'm actually far more.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:05.920
protective now and able to stand up for what I believe in, but it's all in the way you say things and the way you do things.
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:06.960
And I didn't know that then.
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.279
I would hit a fuse and then I would do something.
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:16.799
And luckily it was, you know, it was always I always tried to do these things in in um in service to someone else for the good, right?
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:19.200
But I didn't do it the right way.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:31.200
You know, I I'm so much more effective when I pause and I choose my words carefully and I and I have that inner confidence now that no matter what I encounter, I will have the strength to endure it.
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:34.079
And I didn't have that before and that's why I drink.
00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:34.480
Yeah.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:44.240
As I'm listening to you, I'm just like you have this like not only like I can do it all, but also like I have to do it all like mentality.
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:48.400
And it sounds like from like a really young age that was put on you.
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:57.359
And then as you're like you're acting, you have a team I would imagine like you've got people behind you you feel like I have to I am supporting them.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:01.440
Like this this team is here because because I'm at I'm at work and I'm doing this stuff.
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:03.680
You show up to set it's the exact same thing.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:12.799
That's an intense amount of pressure not to mention the pressure you just put on yourself naturally all the time and the pressure that people are putting on you verbally.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:20.559
While also playing these like badass women though who I feel like also upheld that same like I can do it all.
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:26.960
I'm gonna do it all like Jane Doe Lady Sith I mean like Warrior Goddess.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:37.519
Do you feel like these roles that kind of mentality kind of hindered being able to open up or even like admitting to yourself like this is kind of hindering me.
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:38.480
This is a problem.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:58.960
Yeah I think um I was told early on in my career and I still have this that I can play strong vulnerable characters and I thought okay and it's true like I'm no problem like burying my soul on film and crying and whatever you know being emotional and but I had a really hard time doing it in my personal life.
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:11.200
And so I would get it out there, you know and um and these characters I play, you know, there was a lot of pressure especially when Blind Spot came out there weren't a lot of female led series out there and streaming was very new.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:13.440
I think there was like Hulu and Netflix and that was it.
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:21.599
And um and I think there was one other show uh Outlander with Katrina Bauf that was female led that was doing really well.
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:32.480
I mean she's fantastic and um and I was the other one and it was kind of like oh this is a character that would typically be male and it's kind of like if you fail, then what does that say about women?
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:37.519
You know and it was kind of I mean these were the things that were actually being told to me not the things that I was assuming for myself.
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:42.319
You know, it was kind of like you're gonna take on some crazy stuff.
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:48.319
This is like essentially like a female Jason born and it's not just a short, you know, it's not a film.
00:24:48.400 --> 00:25:10.799
It's gonna be 10 months out of the year for as many years as we can get you for and and I was like okay um but at the time too NBC wasn't doing well and a lot of their shows were being canceled and so they dumped all of their money in uh all you know for promoting blind spot and really jacking it up and and I just thought like I can't fail at this.
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:15.839
Um and this stems from me being a wrestler in high school and also being told I wouldn't be good at that and I was great.
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:17.359
And there you know just things like that.
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:25.920
It was kind of like oh I'm just being viewed as uh less than because I'm a woman and that was something that I was like ready to be like fuck you.
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:31.680
You know never be your underdog yeah and that that kind of exacerbated my uh tough exterior.
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:43.440
Yeah that tough exterior and that and that inability to just be really honest and be like I am really afraid you know and um and so it kind of manifests in the characters that I be I'm offered a lot.
00:25:43.599 --> 00:26:05.279
You know and so I thought when I realized I had an alcohol problem, which I did not realize until I was quite genuinely I was on my deathbed in the hospital I had this white light experience and I I realized I was like oh my God that's what that is like I, you know, because in my brain I'm thinking addicts and alcoholics right they they they're homeless or they live under a bridge or they they're in jail.
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:07.119
Every single person says they live under a bridge.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:14.240
I'm like the marketing for bridges like yes an underpass and like because like that's what I would see when I was younger.
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:15.039
So we all did.
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:20.240
Yep everybody and so it's so hard and easy to remove ourselves from any type of I don't have a problem.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:24.880
I don't look like the a million images I've been fed about what this problem looks like.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:26.000
It doesn't look like me.
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:27.039
It doesn't look like me.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:27.279
Yeah.
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:35.279
And that's that's what I I I think if I had seen you know because right now look the stigma is is getting softer about this.
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:42.960
You know, there are people like myself and and many people that are recovering out loud in a way because I think there are so many people suffering.
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:51.279
And I see this a lot because I I work a lot with people in Rikers Island, women in Rikers Island in New York and um and in mental health facilities and things like that.
00:26:51.359 --> 00:27:05.599
And I see like a lot of them are absolutely baffled at their addiction problem because they don't their lives I guess didn't I mean some of them of course but there are other women I work with that their lives didn't implode.
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:05.920
Yeah.
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:13.759
So they were like well but everybody drinks like everybody goes out and has you know drinks and brunch champagne or whatever and it's like yes but do they drink like you?
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:14.240
No.
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:14.720
Yeah.
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:24.160
And so and and that's something where um I find like a recovery community to be really helpful and things like this, this podcast and just talking about what you guys are doing.
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:33.440
Yeah because curious yeah you can go oh so that girl that plays all those tough characters and all that stuff she was dealing with that and does deal with it on a daily basis.
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:35.119
Like that's similar to me.
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.480
Oh like you know I mean it's just that's the thing, right?
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:47.359
It's like I did not realize because I had no idea what it looked like that that was the thing that was had a death grip on me.
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:50.960
And that was causing a lot of problems in my life that I didn't realize.
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:54.880
You know, I would I would I mean yes I was getting the shit kicked out of me physically.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:02.079
So yes that that was taking its toll but also I was making it worse thinking I was making it better, right?
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:04.480
Thinking I was coping like okay I'm never late to work.
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:17.920
I never flood my lines I'm I'm always you know I'm on it blah blah blah but I had seen a picture that a paparazzi took that ended up on tabloids where most of the people reacting to the photo didn't think it was really me.
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:19.119
They were like that's not her.
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:28.960
Really why I was my skin first of all I was like puffy and I was probably 20 pounds heavier than I am now which is fine but that weight specifically was sick.
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:35.279
Unhealthy it was unhealthy and and I was grayish like my skin was grayish and and I looked so sad.
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:46.319
And I remember seeing it and being like that's what I look like like I I mean I just did not it did not connect and that's how insidious this disease is like it'll feed you a false narrative about yourself.
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:55.839
It was like but you're still making you never got fired from a job you're still doing this your show's doing okay everybody you know like I would I would throw at it all these other things that were going well.
00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:02.160
So that you know that can't equal being sick and and in active alcoholism can it nope just wouldn't happen.
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:02.400
No.
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:09.759
And then one day I went to work and um I had coincidentally stopped drinking three days before by accident.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:13.039
I had no intention of getting sober because I didn't realize I had a problem.
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:29.759
Like I kind of knew there were a couple times where I was like why I don't want this right now why am I having it so I I was having those thoughts right before this but I had met somebody that was sober and got stuck upstate in a blizzard on a weekend and obviously wasn't gonna ask the sober guy to get me some booze.
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:31.359
There was no booze in the Airbnb.
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:39.839
I was like oh my goodness and normally I'd have a flask I mean I would have something right but I I don't know why I didn't put it in my backpack that day.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:52.319
And so I went up there didn't drink obviously that day the next day still had to wait to drive back down to Brooklyn and so I I didn't drink that day either and then and the and the night that I got home I poured myself a bourbon and for some reason just couldn't have it.
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.720
It was the first time in a long like years.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:30:17.839
Interesting and I was like I mean I would drink if I had the flu and bronchitis and I say that because I did I remember distinctly doing that thinking oh it'll clear up the congestion in my turn the things I was like but it's good for you that way right no um and then I went to work on a Monday and was very dizzy and didn't feel right and was eating a lot of sugar and just like just I didn't even know right.
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:19.599
I didn't know I was going through withdrawals.
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:30.640
I was very shaky somehow still able to do my job and then that night was way worse and then went to bed didn't drink that night either Tuesday I go to work feeling pretty good.
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.759
I was like oh okay good I was like I must have had a little virus or something.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:43.839
I don't know and went to work and then by the middle of the day my appendix ruptured and I had sepsis and I was rushed into the ER and I wasn't really expected to do very well.
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.480
If I made it through the surgery they thought I would probably be in there for like a couple weeks to a few months.
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:49.279
Oh my gosh.
00:30:49.440 --> 00:31:03.680
And um and I remember right before I mean I first of all that pain was the worst thing I have ever felt in my life the contractions were insane and I it got to a point where I was I was so afraid and it crossed a line to where I was like I will dig it out of my stomach myself.
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:26.799
Like I was in so much pain I couldn't even touch my skin barely it was like the craziest thing I've ever felt in my life this podcast is brought to you by recovery.com recovery.com is a place where anyone can find mental health or addiction treatment options specific to them.
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:34.960
You can filter by location price insurance coverage therapy type mental health condition levels of care and so much more.
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:41.759
Recovery.com is the best place to find mental health or addiction treatment for anyone anywhere.
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:48.400
And I was so used to being in pain that I waited and waited and waited and then I finally told the producers I was like something's wrong with me.
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:53.680
And then I was rushed to an ER and and then they said it's it's now burst.
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:58.319
It's you're leaking and um I remember at that point I didn't feel any pain.
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:04.640
And I think that kind of probably happens when it ruptures and um but I was very hot like it felt like my blood was on fire.
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:13.279
And then I got left in this little room or corridor or something with a sheet over me and I just remember being orange like they would wipe me down with this beta dyne.
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:13.920
I was so out of it.
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:27.039
It's like pre-surgery yeah it was like they were prepping and it was like a chaotic ER in Manhattan right it was Mount Sinai West and um was waiting there and the and I remember the nurse or the doctor somebody nurse maybe said I'll be right back you know and I was okay.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:30.079
And at that point I was just like what is going on?
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:41.119
But I started to feel like relief and then I no joke and I didn't grow up religious and I'm like I'm the first person that'll be like this sounds very woo-woo and really out there.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:47.279
But and I mind you I was on no drugs because they couldn't give me an epidural or anything because they were about to put me under for so long.
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.960
And um I heard a voice it wasn't like outside of myself I didn't see anything.
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:58.480
It was like I felt it it was like in my head like kind of when you're talking to yourself but it was not me.
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:00.720
Like I was very aware that there was something else.
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:02.799
I know what I sound like that is not my voice.
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:07.839
Yeah no it was just like this is okay this is different and it just said do you want to stay or do you want to go?
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:27.759
And I honestly was like I mean I I get chills now every time I tell this story because I it is so with me still this many years later but I remember thinking my first thought was I remember you and um and my second thought was I was right like there is something out there.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:40.960
Like I was never alone growing up through all the hard stuff and like there's always been something with me, you know and and I my other thought was why have I worried every day of my life like why have I worried so much like like that's not the point we're here.
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:47.039
We're not supposed to sit here and worry about everything all the time like you know like worry is not the same as awareness.
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:54.240
Like worry is fine for a second you become aware and then you let it go and you do what you can and that's the only thing any of us can do.
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:59.359
And I I just remember telling it I was like I I think there's something else I'm supposed to do.
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:10.880
I think I'll stay and my thought process you know me just trying to be like reasonable here and rational I was like well if you were there when I was a kid because this is I clearly remember you and you're here now then you'll be there later.
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.599
Why would I rush to go, you know?
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:18.239
But it was the greatest relief I've ever felt in my life like everything made sense.
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:41.679
I only felt so much love for everyone and I was so excited to stay alive so that I could show people this love like that I could tell everybody that I love them people I didn't even know like I I was like I have to give this to people like they have to remember there's something out there, you know and it's so I said you know and then immediately when I made that decision it said then you can never drink again.
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:43.039
And I was like what?
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:50.719
Like I mean that was that was the moment that I was like oh my God like that I'm an alcoholic.
00:34:50.880 --> 00:35:09.519
Like I and and I was uh I felt so much relief because I was like oh I I know what it is now this thing that is like dictated everything I've done in my life jobs I didn't take because of it, jobs I did take because of it, all this fear, all this like chaos, all this like closed off I'm a lone wolf, nobody's gonna get to me.
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.800
I'm gonna be the toughest person I can and nobody's gonna fuck with me.
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:23.840
Like all this noise that like hid who I truly am which again is like a very soft person, you know, and a very capable person like that thing was the thing that was choking me to death.
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:30.400
And I I said okay like I was so relieved I was like I know what it is then I if I know what the problem is I can fix it.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:31.920
Like I can move towards a solution.
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:33.360
I just did not understand.
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:34.400
I did not know.
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:50.079
And as soon as I made that choice all the doctors came in and I must have looked crazy because I remember being so happy and I kept telling the um I know this to be true now because I asked I was like did I tell you guys I loved you before the surgery and they're like yeah you were really like very happy.
00:35:51.039 --> 00:36:06.639
Yeah I was like don't worry I kept telling them don't worry I'm I'll be fine and you know and there were a lot of them I mean it was like crazy and and then I was moved off um the OR t or the gurney onto the OR table and and my IV got caught on something in my left arm.
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:12.000
The one in my left arm it was like I don't know if there was a screw or if it got pinched between the the gurney and the OR table.
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:23.840
I'm not sure what happened but I felt it pulling and I was trying to tell them like something's happening in my arm and um they were moving fast, you know, like my life was on the line and I was like you know probably like 10 minutes from dying.
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.840
So it was like and it snapped and all the blood started coming out of my arm.
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:28.559
Yeah.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.320
I was like um and then they noticed it because it went everywhere.
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:32.639
Yeah.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:39.440
And I was like my arm was so cold but I still wasn't afraid and now I mean that would have scared the shit out of me back in the day but I was like it's okay.
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:48.719
And the anesthesiologist or some I think it was him he pinched it to keep the blood from leaking and then they had to gas me to knock me out because I couldn't do it through the IV.
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:56.800
And I just remember all these hands on me moving me onto the table and then this mask going over my mouth and I felt myself stop breathing.
00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:59.679
Like I felt my body stop and I was like oh my God.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:07.679
And I used my right hand to try to grab his neck like try I tried to hurt him like to get the mask off and then I was out and that's the last thing I remember but oh my God.
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:10.320
But it was very um I had to ask about that too.
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:13.519
I asked the doctor because I heard somebody come in and go, what the fuck?
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:16.719
And then I was out and I was like I think that was the doctor that cursed it.
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:27.039
Did he tell you I loved you I was like I'm gonna tell y'all when I wake up and then I woke up and I was cold which was a good sign and I was expected to be in there for quite a while to get my blood clean.
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:27.599
Yeah.
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:34.400
And um and I kept telling them no I'm I'm gonna be all right like I'm I'm okay and and I and I did go like was that real?
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:35.519
Did that really happen?
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:51.119
Like and I got out of the hospital in five days my blood was clean on the second day which is not normal for that that is like now I know right I've I've studied I've went back and like looked and I was like I am quite genuinely like a miracle like I shouldn't be here.
00:37:51.280 --> 00:38:15.039
Like if life was fair I would have died a long time ago probably um but I certainly would have died in that hospital and somebody that should have lived would have you know what I mean if we have to like make it equal like a math equation like I shouldn't still be here and and I but I am and so I I look at that and go, my mission over the last eight years now has just been like what can I do to help people?
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:24.800
Like genuinely I mean I am not uh trying to to you know put myself on a pedestal or toot my own horn but I am literally like what can I do?
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:43.760
Because I I've always been somebody that wanted to help others and that's one of the reasons I became an actor is like if I could have a platform then then people will look at what I'm paying attention to you know and but it is like my mission to to make sure that everybody knows that they matter because if I was in that hospital and that happened to me, that means it's for everybody.
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:45.119
Like I'm not special.
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:49.119
Like that is like we all have that we all have something out there.
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:56.000
And whether you believe in God, you can call it whatever you want I mean universe guide whatever's guiding you intuition whatever it is but you're not alone.
00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:56.480
Right.
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:04.639
A hundred percent and honestly just like leading this lifetime with joy and love I I believe that that's how we're supposed to live this and it's hard.
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:11.679
It's hard life is messy life is hard I've been through and I hear this a lot with sober people they'll be like man I've been through the worst shit in my life sober.
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:14.239
And it's like yeah luckily you get raw dog in life now.
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:22.159
Yeah life is life life is gonna keep its thing going right like life doesn't stop just because you break your leg or lose somebody you love.
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:23.519
You know like life's got to keep going.
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:24.079
That's its job.
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:28.559
But like how beautiful to experience it at every range of the spectrum.
00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:35.760
That is an in like incredibly crazy experience to have to endure.
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:44.480
It was like you would kind of like soft launch yourself like something inside of you like stop drinking a little bit prior but this thing definitely was just like boom done.
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:54.079
Yeah I guess I'm curious I was like because you can be sober but that doesn't stop like the thoughts and the cravings and where our minds like go when we have those struggles.
00:39:54.480 --> 00:40:09.679
So like what was I guess like what was that initial like 90 days for you to like and then it's like a year that first year like what is that like listen man here's the thing anybody out there that's getting sober, it is much harder to get sober than it is to stay sober.
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:10.719
So do it once.
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:12.880
Get sober and just do that once.
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:20.559
Don't don't you know like if stay sober, do whatever it takes to stay sober because it is just going to get worse every time.
00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:32.239
If you try to get sober again and again again if you're lucky you get to try again right the thing that helped me in the beginning because again I do nothing about 12 step programs or I didn't even really know any other sober people.
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:36.960
You know, I you kind of just figured out you were an alcoholic or dealing with that in the first place.
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:49.519
And I had tried years before this is what was interesting I thought back on this I had tried to read a book on how to stop drinking because I just thought oh I need to take a break right yeah and I wrote this or read this book called uh Alan Carr's the easy way to stop drinking.
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:53.119
I think he wrote one for like flying fear of flying and then smoking and all this other stuff.
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:59.280
You have to have a specialization oh yeah I was like oh a book will solve it read a book lasted three weeks and was out the door.
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.639
So what that taught me was community is the thing I was missing.
00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:09.199
So I was like I can't do this on my own because I'm a pretty capable smart individual and I could not not drink.
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:11.679
I could not stop drinking by myself.
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:20.159
Like it took a catastrophic event and a weird sequence of events and synchronicities to get me to even realize I needed to stop.
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:20.559
Yeah.
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:24.719
And it's like that's that's my language right I think we all get what we need.
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:32.320
Like I am a pretty spiritual individual I notice things uh I feel things greatly I notice synchronicities.
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:35.760
So I needed to be spoken to in that way or I would not have understood.
00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:39.440
And so when people are like oh I didn't have a white light experience it's like you didn't need it then.
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:39.679
Yeah.
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:40.239
No problem.
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:41.840
Maybe you will later no big deal.
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:43.280
You still deserve to be sober.
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:47.360
Yeah and it's and it's one of those things where it's not easy.
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:49.280
It's not easy but it's better.
00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:50.239
You know what I mean?
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:50.559
Yeah.
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:52.079
It's not easy but it's better.
00:41:52.159 --> 00:42:02.400
So like let's let's do it and find yourself a sober community talk to other people ask for help that was the thing I never did I was like I cannot ask for help I'm the person that helps.
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:05.119
Yeah great be the person that helps and ask for help.
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:16.159
And and I had a woman um a good friend of mine because she knew I struggled with this she's like you've got to reach out to me when you have a hard time and I said no because I'm a burden you know I don't want to like you got a lot going on in your life.
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:28.480
Yes people and she said to me she goes you're not a burden she goes if you don't ask for help you are robbing that person that you would ask the opportunity to feel really good about themselves.
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:29.519
I've never thought of it.
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:32.239
Yeah and well she had to trick me because I was like wait what?
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:51.599
So she's like so you're doing something for them so I'm giving them something exactly because she said look how do you feel when you when you're able to help somebody and you see that it helped them like what does that make you feel like and I'm like well I really good you know yeah and she's like great so give somebody else the opportunity to feel that yes and I was like oh that's a good one.
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:53.519
And so now it's like you know what I mean?
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:55.119
I'm like all right that clicked for me.
00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:56.400
So that's the thing.
00:42:56.559 --> 00:43:06.559
And and so like I was telling you before we started recording this that I uh am a founding partner of this campaign that uh Blake McCowski of Tom Shoes came up with.
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:08.000
It's called We Are Enough.
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:08.400
Okay.
00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:20.239
Uh you can go to weareenough.co and it's um basically he's advocating for mental health and so you go on the website and it's you know it's basically it's a reminder and we have these little bracelets.
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:26.239
It's like every um all the proceeds go to these four mental health charities and they're all linked on the website.
00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:27.360
There's resources, right?
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:29.440
Because it's really hard to know like where to go.
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:35.840
I mean I didn't even know about like AA or community groups or like I mean I had no idea what any of those were.
00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:37.599
It's like you just suffer in silence.
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:37.920
Yeah.
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:42.800
And then you find a therapist who you tell your secrets to and then they fix you, but that's not how it works But it's not how it works.
00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:46.559
And then and I realized I was like this is about community.
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:55.119
I mean like it's about looking at someone else and finding where you identify with that person, not looking at all the differences.
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:01.199
Because a lot of times when I talk to other sober people, I'm like, okay, I didn't have that experience But man, I've had that feeling.
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:01.760
Exactly.
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:02.000
Yeah.
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:04.559
And then you're like, that I can get with, that I can relate with.
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:09.119
And so what that does is it teaches you to focus on the solutions and not the problems.
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:09.519
Right.
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:20.320
And it's like you can bring your problems to like-minded individuals, meaning people that are struggling with what you're struggling with or that are sober and have been sober for a while, or or even two days.
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:20.639
Yeah.
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:25.039
You know, but you guys can have a conversation and then all of a sudden you don't feel alone.
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:29.840
And that I think is the biggest thing is that so many of us feel like we're terminally unique.
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:32.639
We're alone, like we're lone wolves, like no one's gonna show up.
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:34.000
Individually broken.
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:35.039
They individually broken.
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:37.519
Yeah, it'll work for you, but not for me.
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:50.639
And then, you know, I meet people that were incarcerated for 20 years that got sober in jail and then now are, you know, out and they're like beautifully soft individuals that are like marshmallows in kind.
00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:52.400
And you're like, this is who you are.
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:57.519
Like those substances, that alcohol, those situation, it's that you changed you.
00:44:57.679 --> 00:44:59.519
Yeah, it made you something you were not.
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:00.880
It created a monster.
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:11.039
And so one of the greatest things in life, at least for me, was getting sober, going, Whoa, I literally went against my wiring, like my nature.
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:18.480
And through being sober and talking to other sober people and finding a community and really opening up and trying to be a service, right?
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:24.800
I was able to like rearrange those wires into something that really aligns with who I actually believe I am.
00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:24.960
Yeah.
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:25.440
Finally.
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:26.000
Yes.
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:26.400
You know?
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:26.800
Yeah.
00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:28.960
Addiction is a disease of isolation.
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:36.159
It like you said in the beginning, yes, that first time it kind of made me feel less observed, less perceived.
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:36.559
Yeah.
00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:38.239
That soft breath.
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:46.880
But then after that, it's just like these false narratives about yourself that end up taking you away from everything you love, everybody you love.
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:47.360
Yeah.
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:49.599
Just like the reality of things.
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:50.079
Yeah.
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:55.360
And it closes you off to all the things that there are so many wonderful things in life.
00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:00.159
And look, and I'm saying this, and you're going, okay, you know, I'm sure people are listening, like, oh, you're an actress, you have this or that.
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:01.119
No, actually, I don't.
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:02.719
I haven't worked in several years.
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:05.440
I've had a really hard time getting an acting job.
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:08.239
I've had, I've been hit pretty hard financially.
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:11.840
I gave a lot of my money away in the beginning because I didn't believe I deserved it.
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.480
I mean, I'm talking like a lot, like most of it.
00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:20.239
I'm in a place where I live in a studio apartment in New York, and I am the happiest I have ever been in my life.
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:25.199
And I'm using my time now to try and do things that help other people.
00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:31.840
And it's like, and if I talk about how I grew up, again, I think, you know, a lot of times people can look at me and assume a certain thing.
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:32.960
It's not true.
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:34.400
You know, I grew up with nothing.
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:38.000
And I grew up in a in a pretty aggressive way.
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:41.920
And and and there were also many wonderful parts of my childhood as well.
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:45.599
And, you know, it's it's like never judge a book by its cover, you know.
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:51.760
Like I am in the throes of a big life shift here, you know, and I am not where I thought I would be in my life.
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:53.360
And that is okay.
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:53.760
Yes.
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:57.119
Like I am genuinely 100% curious.
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:04.800
Like I approach my life now instead of with dread or like, oh God, everything's gonna, the shoe's gonna drop, things are bad, are gonna happen, something's bad's gonna happen.
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:08.320
No, actually, I'm like, no, what I'm so curious.
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.800
I wake up in the morning, I'm like, I wonder what's gonna happen today.
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:13.119
Like, because I know I'm gonna have the strength to endure.
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:24.159
If I can get sober and stay sober, and I have survived a hundred percent of everything that has ever happened to me, and everybody alive right now in this moment has survived a hundred percent of everything life has thrown at you.
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.159
What makes you think that you can't survive the next thing and the next thing and the next thing?
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:28.800
You know what I mean?
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:30.480
That like, yeah.
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:45.440
I'm like, that is like the true strength, the softness of like that submitting to just like this is how this, it's the way the universe works, and like I can take care of myself and everything else is it, it's just is, and I'll be okay.
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:46.880
Everything will be okay.
00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:55.440
It's such a shift in mindset to previously where it was like, I'm in control, I'm power, badass, like I've got it.
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:59.039
Don't worry, I can handle it and and hit me with anything.
00:47:59.119 --> 00:47:59.599
Yeah.
00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:03.360
To yeah, like I submit to the world.
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:03.679
Yeah.
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:05.519
Like, and I can still be tough.
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:07.280
I can still do those crazy stunts.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:15.119
I can still, well, maybe not all of them, but I can still do, you know, I can be that woman and be, I can be that, but now it's so much more authentic.
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:17.760
You know, because I also don't need all that sometimes.
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:19.440
Sometimes it's just a soft approach.
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:21.519
And yeah, and I just get really curious.
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:27.599
Like me ending up in the hospital, about to lose my life, and that moment felt like the worst thing that has ever happened to me.
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:29.599
It ended up being the best thing that's ever happened to me.
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:30.480
Life changing.
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:31.519
And that's where you have to go.
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:38.239
You never know when something and and look, yes, morally on paper, we can agree that certain things are terrible and it's all relative.
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:39.599
I never compare suffering.
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:42.159
It's, you know, it's very personal, right?
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:43.280
Like what we go through.
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:46.800
But you, if you look at your life and you need some sort of tangible proof, right?
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:48.000
Like a lot of us like science.
00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:48.960
We're like, where's the proof?
00:48:49.039 --> 00:48:50.639
How do we know we're gonna be okay?
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:51.119
Right.
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:59.280
Look back on your life and think about some of the things that you've been through and the things that you've survived and use that as your proof.
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:00.320
You're still here.
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:04.159
You still have a chance, you still can do anything you want to.
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:08.480
And that's the thing that I've taken was like, okay, I survived that, that, that.
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:11.760
Okay, like I'm I've actually never failed at my life before.
00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:12.480
Like none of us.
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:14.320
That is an amazing way to look at it.
00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:16.000
I've never failed at my life.
00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:16.400
No.
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:16.639
Yeah.
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:18.000
Like, look at your life, for instance.
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:22.719
You have like a daughter, you've you've looked, you were telling me all the things that you've done up until this point.
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:24.480
And I'm like, what an adventure.
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:26.639
I mean, you have like I was just thinking to myself.
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:30.000
Like, there's so many times within that where I was like, I don't want to be here.
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:31.679
I'm a failure, I'm awful.
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:33.599
What's the point of being here?
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:34.320
What is it?
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:34.559
Yeah.
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:55.519
And I think about this often, just like all those times where I was really just like ready for it to all be over, to like continue on another day and considering myself a failure for not following through with those things, but really just some part of myself figured there would be something better on the other side and put like just sticking through it.
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:57.679
And you're right, it is better on the other side.
00:49:57.840 --> 00:49:58.000
Yeah.
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:02.239
There's nothing worse, like it's hard here, but it's so much, it's better there.
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:04.480
You just have to kind of get through the hard at times.
00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:04.960
Yeah.
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:05.280
Yeah.
00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:12.719
And it's adversity gives us a chance to to learn what we're made of, to, to feel life.
00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:17.920
Like, you know, like I the things that I've been through and the things that you've been through, it's like, look who you are to now.
00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:21.280
I mean, I walked in this room and everybody in this room is so amazing.
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.519
I sit talking to you and I'm like, I could know this person forever.
00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:26.159
We could be we could be besties easily, you know?
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:29.760
And and like, and we have a mutual friend Hillary, who's also a wonderful woman.
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:30.719
I miss her.
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:31.199
Yeah.
00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:33.360
And it's like, but this is the thing.
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:44.320
Like every single one of us, when I go to a restaurant or any kind of airports wherever I'm around a lot of people, I like take a minute, especially if I'm feeling a little like, well, this isn't going my way, or I'm annoyed, or whatever.
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:45.440
I take a minute and I pause.
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:47.760
And the only reason I'm able to do it is I practice it, right?
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:48.880
That did not come easy.
00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:50.480
I'd just be like, you know, screw this.
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:51.199
I'm gonna go get it.
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:52.000
It's easy to be a hater.
00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:53.280
Yeah, it's easy to be a hater.
00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:53.840
Let me tell you.
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:56.320
Uh boy, does it feel good to think you're right about stuff.
00:50:56.639 --> 00:51:02.559
Um, but I look around and I uh one, I'll start to picture everybody as a little kid and I'll be like, we're all that.
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:04.000
Like, we're all that.
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:08.559
Then I'll go, I know the the things that I've been through in my life, right?
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:16.320
And I think, oh my God, every person in this room, in this airport, I'm walking around and I'm seeing lots of people all over the place, right?
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:19.840
Every single one of us has been through like such a complex life.
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:20.400
Yeah.
00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:22.079
Like, holy shit.
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:24.239
And we've all, we're all still here.
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:26.719
Like we're we're like here and we're doing it and we're showing up.
00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:27.840
And it's like, how are we?
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:30.320
We're the most resilient species.
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:32.880
Like we're, I mean, it's kind of crazy when you look at it.
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:41.119
And so when I think of that, you know, when I take a minute to pause and think of that, I always think no matter what happens to me, all I need is the strength to endure it.
00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:42.719
I don't need to get the next job.
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:47.840
I don't need to do this, I don't need to get this new outfit or this, you know, accolade or this success.
00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:48.639
I don't need that.
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:52.800
All I need is the strength to endure whatever's next, good, bad, ugly, whatever.
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:56.079
Because if I have the strength to endure it, whatever happens, yeah, it'll be fine.
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:57.519
Everything will be fine.
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:05.920
And it's you hear a lot of people talk about this when they get terminally sick, you know, and the cancer and and and especially the late James Vanderbeek, you know, he talks about this.
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:09.840
He's like, whoa, it just strips away all the noise, right?
00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:12.239
And all the things that we pick up along the way.
00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:13.440
And that's okay, right?
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:14.159
We pick up things.
00:52:14.239 --> 00:52:14.719
That's all right.
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:15.280
That's life.
00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:20.079
The thing is, is like pulling back those layers and going, like, oh, what's the core though?
00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:25.199
And the core, at least for me, and it sounds again cliche, but it's love.
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:30.559
It's literally being like, what can I do to help another person?
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:32.880
Like when I see somebody behaving really badly, right?
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:37.039
Like being angry and being loud, I look at them and all I see is how much they're suffering.
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:39.039
I don't think they're a bad person.
00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:42.400
I'm like, that that is so much suffering.
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:54.000
To be able to react like that and to behave like that towards another person, I can't imagine what their insides are like and what they've gone through or what they're I'm so fortunate to not be in that place, you know.
00:52:54.079 --> 00:53:00.639
And um, and I try to come at it with compassion and go, like, man, I've felt angry on the inside several times, you know.
00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:03.119
And and and people think it's weak to cry.
00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:08.960
And and I see this a lot with men, especially, but they think it's weak to cry or admit that you need help or that you're struggling.
00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:10.159
That is not the case.
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:11.679
And that's what held me back for so long.
00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:15.599
I'm like, oh, I'm playing these big, strong characters and all these young girls look up to me and all this stuff.
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:17.440
Well, and now I gotta say I'm an alcoholic.
00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:19.840
Now I gotta admit that I didn't have it all together.
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:21.519
It's like, yeah, admit that.
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:31.760
So that if they ever, you know, come into a time in their life where they're struggling or suffering, let it, let it, let yourself be the example that it's okay to admit that you're struggling and that you need help.
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:32.639
That takes strength.
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:33.119
Yes.
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:34.880
That was scary as hell to me.
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:42.480
Like the amount of courage it took, it took me hitting like a legit rock bottom wall to be like, I gotta throw the talent.
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:49.440
And then, and it's like that sort of gift of desperation gave me the courage to be like, I am I'm not okay.
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:50.239
I need some help.
00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:54.960
I don't know how to do this thing, but there is somebody in this world that does, and I'm gonna find that person, you know?
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:57.280
And then lo and behold, there's a ton of us.
00:53:57.519 --> 00:54:07.440
And anytime if you're struggling out there and you need help, like find the the spark inside of you that knows that you need help and just ask one person.
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:10.239
Just ask anybody you know, any any a friend.
00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:20.639
Maybe a friend of a friend knows somebody that's sober or a friend of a friend, a teacher knows somebody that that can give you some help, or or and it and it's just it's a teeny tiny snowball in the beginning, you know?
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:26.000
It's just like put in that little effort because if you put in a little effort like that, you will be met with help.
00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:26.400
Yep.
00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:28.960
My my theory is this, and I've and I've tested this.
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:39.199
I'm not, you know, just saying this out of, you know, randomness, but I've noticed that um anytime I've asked for help, like I'll just say out loud, sometimes I'll be like, please give me the strength to endure this.
00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:41.440
And who I'm asking, I don't know, right?
00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:42.960
God, whatever, I don't care.
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:44.800
It's whatever was in the hospital, right?
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:45.280
That thing.
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:47.199
I just I have lots of names for it.
00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:49.519
Um, it used to be the force from Star Wars.
00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:50.159
I'm not gonna lie.
00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:50.320
Okay.
00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:52.239
Um I was like, that works, works for me.
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:53.199
It feels similar.
00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:56.079
Um, but it I would just be like, please give me the strength to endure.
00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:59.599
And I used to ask, not believing I'd get the help for some reason.
00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:00.880
Like I wasn't worthy of it.
00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:04.320
And now I had a woman tell me, she has 40 years sober.
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:08.159
She said, When you ask for help, you need to know right in that moment you're being helped.
00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:09.599
You don't know when it'll show up.
00:55:09.679 --> 00:55:10.719
You don't know what it'll look like.
00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:13.360
Might not be something you want, but you will be helped.
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:13.599
Yeah.
00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:21.119
And then what it does is it opens your mind to going, like, okay, you let go of the how and you just sort of go, okay.
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:23.280
And then you start to notice the little things.
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:23.760
Yes.
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.559
Like I remember early days getting on an airplane.
00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:31.679
I used to have a huge fear of flying, which I've recently overcome, which never thought I would.
00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:34.960
But I remember the first flight I took sober.
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:36.079
I was shaking.
00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:37.440
I mean, I was so afraid.
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:42.400
And I sat next to this woman who had a baby, and the baby was just like wanting to play with me the whole time.
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:44.960
And I was like, this is great because I'm distracted.
00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:47.760
The other lady on my other side was sober.
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:49.440
And I was like, What?
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:52.320
And I was probably like a couple months sober.
00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:55.119
And she had ordered a coffee and a sparkling water.
00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:57.360
And I remember being like, That's what I drink.
00:55:57.519 --> 00:56:03.119
And I thought, well, and they were, I think they were giving out like complimentary alcoholic beverages or something because the flight was delayed.
00:56:03.199 --> 00:56:04.079
It was something weird like that.
00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:04.960
And she didn't have one.
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:06.719
And then the mom didn't have one either.
00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:09.199
And she said, and the the lady was like, Would you like something?
00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:12.320
And I said, Oh, I'll have what, yeah, I'll have a coffee and sparkling water.
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:15.519
And and she looked over at me and she's like, Oh, you don't want to drink?
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:16.639
And I was like, Oh, I don't drink.
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:19.199
Like I was just so like, I have to tell everybody I'm sober.
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:21.440
Like I didn't realize, you know, like you don't have to advertise.
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:22.400
Be cool, be cool.
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:22.559
Yeah.
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:23.920
Yeah, be cool, be cool.
00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:27.440
And um, and she looked at me, she's like, uh, she's like, Oh, are you sober?
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:28.800
And I said, uh, yes.
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:30.960
And she's like, Oh, I've been sober 15 years.
00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:33.840
And I was like, Oh, and then we talked the whole flight.
00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:35.519
It was the best experience.
00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:40.159
And I thought, like, I had asked for help and I really needed it.
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:46.559
And then I got sat between these two women, one of which had this like very adorable baby that just like kept clapping my face.
00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:48.960
And I was like, I mean, it was just like the best experience.
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:50.960
And I keep thinking about that.
00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:53.760
And now I just hope I can be that for somebody, you know?
00:56:54.320 --> 00:56:58.559
And um, but yeah, pay attention when you ask for help, like open your eyes a little bit.
00:56:58.719 --> 00:56:59.599
Don't don't worry about it.
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:00.960
Let it go after you ask for it.
00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:04.320
But just know in that moment, because you asked, you will receive help.
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:09.920
And it, and again, like sometimes, like I say, you might have a problem, you ask for a solution, it may not be the one you want.
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:12.719
Yeah, it may not look like a solution to you, but yeah.
00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:14.719
It might be like, oh, but anything but that.
00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:16.719
And it's like, no, that's the solution.
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:18.480
Like, can we like smash for a rerun?
00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:19.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:22.320
It's like, dang it, I did not want that to be the answer, but uh.
00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:24.239
Yeah.
00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:28.159
You've talked about the importance of movement and nature.
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:31.679
What does your spiritual maintenance look like for you today?
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:35.920
I get up in the morning and I read a little passage from the Daily Stoic, a book I really like.
00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:37.199
I'm big on stoicism.
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:39.280
And um, and then I write a gratitude list.
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:41.760
And I used to think that was the corniest thing in the world.
00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:44.639
I remember early, they were like, you should write 10 things you're grateful for.
00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:45.440
And I'm like, fuck you.
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:46.320
Like, you know, I don't really do it.
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:47.039
That's silly.
00:57:47.119 --> 00:57:47.280
Yeah.
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:48.320
It is big though.
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:48.800
It's big.
00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:50.480
It's well, and you know, now I like it.
00:57:50.559 --> 00:57:59.039
I like doing it because I look on that paper and I go, man, like, like I may have a lot of issues happening or like things maybe not going my way, quote unquote.
00:57:59.119 --> 00:57:59.280
Right.
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:00.880
Again, I don't know if it's good or bad, right?
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:02.480
I gotta wait and see how it plays out.
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:03.519
But I'll write stuff down.
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:05.599
I'll be like, man, a hot cup of coffee in the morning.
00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:08.159
That is like it's so nice, you know?
00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:11.519
And and I've traveled to Africa a lot and worked there volunteering.
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:16.079
And there are just things that like I think a lot of us take for granted here.
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:16.880
Perspective.
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:17.360
Yeah.
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:20.639
And I'm thinking, hot shower, man, that is like so nice.
00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:23.039
And I'll write down like my bed linens are clean.
00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:25.360
I changed the bedding last night, you know, just like things like that.
00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:29.039
Or, or um, you know what, my limbs, I'm I'm strong enough to go lift weights today.
00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:32.880
I couldn't, you know, there were a time where I was in a wheelchair for a long time and I couldn't walk.
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:39.599
And and so just like little things, and they can be as small as I got to hit the snooze button, slept 15 more minutes.
00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:42.800
Like if you're struggling to find something great for say something silly.
00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:43.199
Who cares?
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:44.480
Oh, the Knicks won last night.
00:58:44.559 --> 00:58:46.480
I'm a huge Knicks fan, you know, like Knicks won.
00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:47.360
Like whatever.
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:49.519
And it can be like, oh, I have clothes.
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:50.239
Cool.
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:54.000
I have a jacket that's gonna keep me warm outside in New York, cool, you know.
00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:56.320
Um, savings in the bank.
00:58:56.480 --> 00:58:56.800
Great.
00:58:56.960 --> 00:58:58.719
Like, you know, little thing.
00:58:58.800 --> 00:58:59.519
I like my hair.
00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:05.119
You know, you can it can be the ability to find something that you are truly grateful for.
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:05.440
Yeah.
00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:06.880
We do it at work every Friday.
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:09.440
We have a meeting, the whole company logs on at the same time.
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:12.159
It's gotten so big we have to have like breakout meetings now.
00:59:12.239 --> 00:59:13.679
There's like 10 people in each one.
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:16.480
But yeah, every Friday we log on at 10 a.m.
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:26.960
and everybody goes around and says what they're grateful for for the week, like something really like they're grateful for, and then um a bud for the weekend, what they're excited that's going to happen.
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:33.760
I love hearing what my coworkers are doing and like the things that they're grateful for, whether it's super big or super small.
00:59:33.920 --> 00:59:36.480
It's nice to share that and it's nice to think of it.
00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:40.320
Like when we first started, I was like, okay, that's like a waste of a half hour.
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:47.599
But no, it's like it's great, especially at the end of the week, to just be like, like it's another, yeah, a thing to be grateful for.
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:51.119
Gratitude is always really important to keep at the front of your mind.
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:51.840
I think so.
00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:57.119
And it trains your brain, at least for me, it's trained me to look at what's working in my life.
00:59:57.199 --> 00:59:57.280
Yeah.
00:59:57.440 --> 00:59:58.000
Like what's good.
00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:00.960
So I'm not just hyper focused on what's not working.
01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:03.039
You know, it's like, okay, two things are true.
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:08.400
Like, like I remember when I was in early sobriety, I I thought I had to just everything was like black and white.
01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:11.039
Like if I felt um angry, then I couldn't be grateful.
01:00:11.119 --> 01:00:13.119
And it's like, no, you can feel a ton of stuff at once.
01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:16.719
I can be really ticked about something and feel really grateful for a lot of stuff at the same time.
01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:18.239
Traffic, love my car.
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:20.639
But I love my car, you know, or whatever it is.
01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:22.559
It's like, yeah, they can coexist.
01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:30.320
And so it's it's about like opening up these weird little limits that I think we've been conditioned to put on ourselves and be like, no, no, no, it's all possible.
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:36.639
And so I'll write the gratitude list and then I have this little um, this little card deck of like intentions, you know?
01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:36.880
Yeah.
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:41.039
So I like, you know, flip through those and I pick one for the day and then I write a little bit about it.
01:00:41.199 --> 01:00:44.239
And then I carry that with me throughout the day, you know?
01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:48.320
And um, and that's just something that I do in the morning with my morning coffee.
01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:54.480
I will wake up, I don't care if I got an early flight, I'll wake up at 4 a.m., 3:30, whatever I got to do, because I'd like to do that first.
01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:58.079
And then uh, and I do that and then I try to help another person.
01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:02.079
So I'll reach out and ask um a couple women that I help in sobriety.
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:07.840
I'll ask them how they're doing and maybe get a coffee with them if I, if there's time, if we both, you know, have time for that.
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:09.679
And so I try to be of service.
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:12.079
So whenever I'm of service, I'm not afraid.
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:13.360
So that's something I've noticed.
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:22.719
So, like if I, you know, like getting on the plane, like one of my flights yesterday from Park City, I didn't realize, of course, when you fly over mountains, you're gonna get a serious updraft.
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:26.079
And the turbulence was just like, I was like, you gotta be kidding me right now.
01:01:26.239 --> 01:01:28.639
And then I thought, no, no, no, wait, what did I do last time?
01:01:28.719 --> 01:01:30.559
I was like, oh, let me talk to the fellow next to me.
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:32.480
If if, you know, I've just tested the waters.
01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:33.760
I don't want to talk his ear off.
01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:37.440
But he was telling me all about his wife and like how what they're they're gonna go on a cruise.
01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:39.679
And and I thought, this is being of service.
01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:42.639
So like if I'm being of service or being useful, I'm not afraid.
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:48.320
You've often talked about the concept of authentic self.
01:01:48.719 --> 01:02:01.199
Um, if you could go back to the version of yourself right before you entered recovery and give her a single phrase or a piece of Jamie current wisdom to hold on to, what would that be?
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:10.480
The thing that's coming to my mind, which is not maybe a direct answer, but I used to keep a journal when I before I was sober and like right when I got sober.
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:17.039
And while I was helping a a a young girl recently, I read her some of it to show her how different I am now.
01:02:17.360 --> 01:02:23.840
And when I read it, like the only thing I the only thing I could think of was like how badly I wish I could have given myself a hug.
01:02:24.079 --> 01:02:28.559
And then like you have it wrong, kid.
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:29.599
Like you do matter.
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:34.880
You do deserve a good life, and you actually are capable, like you are capable of of doing this.
01:02:35.599 --> 01:02:37.840
The whole world is not meant to be on your shoulders.
01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:43.760
And there is there is something else out there like that has your back.
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:53.599
And if you could just accept that just even a tiny bit, like just know that you're worth it and you're not some loser kid from Texas, that you don't have to do everything at once.
01:02:54.079 --> 01:03:01.599
And that there are people out there that will love you just as you are, and that you can love them just as they are, you know, like these things exist, you know.
01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:03.760
I just didn't, I couldn't figure that out.
01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:09.840
I was always just trying to survive and and I just didn't realize that like some things are just good.
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:11.760
Yeah, like there's no catch.
01:03:12.320 --> 01:03:16.000
You know, those are the things that I wish I could have known, but I I didn't know.
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:20.320
And I I didn't give myself a chance to know, you know, I was so afraid all the time.
01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:28.719
And and I think the maybe the thing the thing that I could have said to myself back then that I wish I could have was like, it's okay to be afraid.
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:28.960
Yeah.
01:03:29.440 --> 01:03:30.079
That's normal.
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:30.880
That's human.
01:03:31.199 --> 01:03:32.159
It's so human.
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:32.800
Yeah.
01:03:33.039 --> 01:03:34.639
It's like you're a human, by the way.
01:03:34.719 --> 01:03:34.800
Yeah.
01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:35.920
Like, you know what I mean?
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:37.679
Like like relish in that.
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:40.880
Like I always say, like, whenever you're having a bad day or something, you're human.
01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:45.199
Like you, you know, I I mouthed off to like a FedEx lady once.
01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:45.679
It was an accident.
01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:46.559
That's a choice.
01:03:46.719 --> 01:03:47.679
It's not like me at all.
01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:51.039
I w I went in there and she she um was really mean to me.
01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:51.920
Like it was really weird.
01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:54.159
It was kind of coming from somewhere else, I guess, for her.
01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:55.679
And there were some people in there.
01:03:55.760 --> 01:03:58.960
And I always use this because I I still feel odd about it.
01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:01.440
But she just said, Did you not hear me the first time?
01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:02.480
Your package isn't here.
01:04:02.559 --> 01:04:03.039
And she was really mean.
01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:04.719
I was like, Well, you don't gotta be a dick about it.
01:04:04.800 --> 01:04:05.280
Like out loud.
01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:06.159
I just, it's just not me.
01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:07.679
Well, that was an internal one.
01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:08.159
Yeah.
01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:13.199
And I left and I went to the gym and I was and then I said, get your ass back in there and say you're sorry.
01:04:13.519 --> 01:04:19.360
Doesn't matter that she says she's sorry, she may never, but you need to clean your side of the street and apologize because you know why?
01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:22.800
It's making you feel terrible because you acted out of that is not you.
01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:23.199
Yeah.
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:24.159
Like, what was that?
01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:24.800
That's not you.
01:04:25.039 --> 01:04:25.920
That's that's something else.
01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:34.000
That's a heightened version of a of an emotion that so I went back in and I apologized to her and she was kind of taken aback and stunned and didn't really say anything.
01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:37.280
And then I just wished her a good day because I don't know what that woman's been through.
01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:37.679
Right.
01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:42.159
You know, it's looping on my mind because I know I did wrong and I need to go back and correct that.
01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:43.920
And so that's the power we have, right?
01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:51.039
Like you can, you may not be able to change your past, but you can actively try to just become better.
01:04:51.840 --> 01:04:53.440
What is your sobriety date?
01:04:53.760 --> 01:04:56.159
March 3rd, 2018.
01:04:56.480 --> 01:04:57.119
Amazing.
01:04:57.280 --> 01:04:57.519
Yeah.
01:04:57.920 --> 01:04:58.639
2018.
01:04:58.800 --> 01:04:59.280
2018.
01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:01.039
That feels like yesterday, but it's really.
01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:02.159
Oh, it feels like yesterday.
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:05.280
I'm telling you, it'll be like I'm coming up on eight years and it's incredible.
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:09.199
It's funny because it's like I feel new in the best way.
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:09.760
Yeah.
01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:11.280
There's still so much to learn.
01:05:11.440 --> 01:05:13.119
I have like no ego about it at all.
01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:17.280
It's like the, you know, again, like I'm so thankful, but I've seen how much I've changed.
01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:26.960
You know, like I was saying about the journals, it's like, whoa, like I was a different, I was just a teeny tiny person back then in in the in terms of like, I was a shell of myself.
01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:29.519
I didn't realize how much of me is out there, right?
01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:30.880
Like I just didn't.
01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:33.440
And then I read those things and I'm like, wow, I don't do that.
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:34.639
You know, things just got better.
01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:36.880
I like, I don't talk to myself badly anymore.
01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:38.559
And I don't jump to conclusions.
01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:40.159
I respond instead of react.
01:05:40.239 --> 01:05:43.199
I don't always get it right, but man, if I get it wrong, I say it right away.
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:45.119
And I like that about myself.
01:05:45.280 --> 01:05:46.880
I'm like, I I like myself.
01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:50.239
I love being able to like just name things that I love about myself.
01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:56.000
Or like, cause I was like, trust me, there was a multiple decades where I could not name a single thing I liked about myself.
01:05:56.239 --> 01:05:56.400
Yeah.
01:05:56.480 --> 01:05:59.760
And you know what's funny is people be like, oh, but it's you're not humbled.
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:09.920
if you're if you like it's like no actually it takes a lot of humility to talk about good things about yourself because when you don't it's almost like you're not being grateful for what's been given to you.
01:06:10.079 --> 01:06:10.320
Right.
01:06:10.480 --> 01:06:13.199
You know it's like it's good to acknowledge what you've been given.
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:17.360
Like sometimes I mean this is small, but like at the grocery store, man, I'm glad I'm tall.
01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:18.559
I can like reach the shelf with people.
01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:29.280
Five five nine yeah five nine and it's like it's like yeah those things right and and it's not conceited or I'm not not humble about it's like no I didn't choose to be this tall.
01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:30.000
I grew this tall.
01:06:30.239 --> 01:06:31.519
Like it just happened.
01:06:31.599 --> 01:06:43.440
Like I I mean I it's I'm good with it and and there have been times where it's bitten me in the ass but like it it's like those things you know be be grateful for what you've been able to do because you didn't do it by yourself.
01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:43.840
Right.
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:55.920
So when you're grateful for what you have whether it's something physical that you like about yourself or something in you that you like about yourself it's like there have been a lot of people and a lot of circumstances in your life that made that possible.
01:06:56.079 --> 01:06:58.880
So when you're grateful for it, you're giving gratitude to all of that.
01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:00.800
And that takes humility.
01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:11.519
That is that is not egotistical you know so I try to tell people that because it's it's hard you know we always want to downplay or be modest it's like no that's actually false modesty like you know what I mean?
01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:18.639
Like it's it's good to know what you have and what you are and what you're good at as long as you know that there's always room for improvement and learning something else.
01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:20.960
Always you know you're incredible.
01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:21.920
Oh man thanks.
01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:23.119
I love talking to you.
01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:23.920
Oh my God.
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:50.320
Is it been three hours I know I was like and I could talk to you for a million years more but again thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story and just being so candid and like opening up about stuff like it it's it's a like it's crazy but I love the shift of perspective and that you know you are loved and you're deserving of things and you are strong in your softness.
01:07:50.639 --> 01:07:52.159
Thank you so much for joining us.
01:07:52.320 --> 01:08:02.559
Tell our listeners where they can follow you where they can find you okay I have an Instagram like all the kids uh it's just my name Jamie Alexander J-A-I-M-I-E.
01:08:02.880 --> 01:08:11.119
And then I also write a Substack now and I do a lot of like philosophical stuff uh and that's uh Jamie Alexander33.
01:08:11.360 --> 01:08:27.119
I love that a writing outlet that's cool yeah oh nice work yep okay cool so you can find me on Substack as well and then anything else uh is probably not me so just those two yeah okay thank you all for joining us we'll see you next time on Recovery Cast