15 Years Wrongfully Imprisoned: Richard Miles on Exoneration, Justice Reform & Miles of Freedom

WEBVTT
00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:12.960
I mean, I'm 19 years old at that point in time, and and I oftentimes tell people that May 15, 1994, was the day that Richard Ray Miles Jr.
00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:13.599
died.
00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:27.120
Imagine losing 15 years of your life, locked away for a crime you never committed.
00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:31.519
Our guest today, Richard Miles, doesn't have to imagine.
00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:32.560
He lived it.
00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:36.159
But this isn't just a story of profound injustice.
00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:40.560
It's a story of extraordinary resilience and unwavering purpose.
00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:45.039
Exonerated and free, Richard didn't just rebuild his own life.
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:55.679
He founded Mouse of Freedom, a vital Dallas nonprofit dedicated to helping others navigate the challenging path from incarceration back into society.
00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:02.799
Get ready to be inspired by true testament to the power of the human spirit and purpose-driven leadership.
00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:03.920
All right, Richard.
00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:05.040
So let's start off.
00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:06.640
Tell us about your childhood.
00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:07.599
Where'd you grow up?
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:09.439
What was it like growing up as Richard?
00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:14.159
Yeah, so first and foremost, man, I greatly appreciate this opportunity.
00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:22.239
Um kudos and congrats on this amazing podcast and just look forward to seeing how everything grows from here.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:27.439
And thank you, uh Tracy, for reaching out to me and allowing me to be a part of this space.
00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:31.040
Um, but yeah, um, I grew up, I'm from Dallas.
00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:33.359
Uh, so I grew up in Oak Cliff.
00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:34.959
Um, particularly.
00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:40.560
Uh, and it was my hood for quite some time.
00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:50.159
Um, stayed in Glendale Park area, uh, went to Lisbon Elementary, eventually went to Longfellow Academy in North Dallas.
00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:56.239
I grew up in a uh a very spiritually guided household, not so much as religious.
00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.879
Um my mom remarried at a very early age of mine.
00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:09.599
Um, and so um my stepfather, and which we just called him our father, that's who I predominantly knew as my dad.
00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:15.840
Um, and so we grew up with three pillars of family, uh, education and spirituality.
00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:18.800
So those are kind of like the foundations of my youth.
00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:32.000
So given that as your early childhood, uh something very uh earth-moving happens to you at the age of nineteen.
00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:38.159
Uh at nineteen years of age, your life was literally under siege.
00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:51.280
Um can you walk us back to the year nineteen ninety-four in Dallas on that street that evening and tell us kind of what happened?
00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:52.879
Yeah, most definitely.
00:02:53.039 --> 00:03:05.599
Um, first and foremost, I mean, I'm 19 years old at that point in time, and and I oftentimes tell people that May 15th, 1994 was the day that Richard Ray Miles Jr.
00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:06.240
died.
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:24.240
It was the day that every everything that I aspire to be, you know, graduating from high school, uh, wanting to go to TSTC in Waco to study plastics engineering because that was the cluster that I took at Skyline High School, um, having my job at McDonald's.
00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:24.479
Right.
00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:27.360
Um, and upon graduation, I moved out.
00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:30.240
You know, I moved in with the manager of McDonald's.
00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:41.199
And it was in that year span of me leaving at the age of 18 as a young man, uh, launching out into adulthood, um, that I met my girlfriend.
00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:42.800
Her name was Betty.
00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:49.199
Um, and so Betty stayed in Oak Cliff, and I had moved to North Dallas, and I didn't have transportation.
00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:51.919
And so I told my friend James that I stayed with.
00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:54.800
I stayed on the corner of Cresthaven and Bluff View.
00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:57.199
I told him, hey man, I want to go visit my girl.
00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:03.919
So he drove me to her house early that morning, and I pretty much stayed all day in Robin Oaks apartments.
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.759
And I had another friend that stayed in the back of the apartments.
00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:10.960
His name was Bo, and Bo drove race cars.
00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:15.360
And so I stayed over in the apartments pretty much all day, and the buses had stopped running.
00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:17.839
And so I needed a ride back home.
00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:23.920
And so Bo was over his mom's house, and I was like, hey man, I'll pay you$5 to take me home.
00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:28.079
Ironically, Bo was already going to his girlfriend's house.
00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:28.319
Okay.
00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:30.800
She stayed on the corner of University and Roper.
00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:33.839
So if you know anything about North Dallas, University.
00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:35.360
Yeah, Elm Thicking.
00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:42.319
So University and Roper and Chris Taven and Bluffview is literally a couple of uh blocks away.
00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:45.519
The only thing that separated is really the Sewell Cadillac shops.
00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:46.079
I know exactly.
00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:50.800
So if I put you in the mindset, we left from Robin Oak's apartments that night.
00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:52.560
We head to North Dallas.
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:54.720
We exited off the freeway.
00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:59.439
I remember stopping at a 7-Eleven that used to be on the corner of Lemon and Inwood.
00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:01.680
I bought a pack of cigarettes right there.
00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:06.399
And if you keep straight, you'll get to University and Roper first.
00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:09.920
So we got to his girlfriend's house first.
00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:12.560
And so I'm like, man, I can walk the rest of the way home.
00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:13.839
He said, You sure?
00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:14.399
I said, Yeah.
00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:21.040
I said, man, all I'm gonna do is walk up university, hit Lemon Avenue, make a right down Lemon Avenue.
00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:25.759
Bluff View is the street that connects Lemon and Lovers Lane.
00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:28.560
And I said, I'll be at the house right then.
00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:32.639
So I got out the car, paid him the$5, walked up the street.
00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:38.480
Just like I said, I remember like it was yesterday, got to Lemon Avenue looking at the signature airports.
00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:49.600
I made a right in front of the Sewell Cadillac shops, turned down Bluff View, and I had to go to the Red Coleman liquor store that sat on the corner because this was before cell phones.
00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:50.000
Yeah.
00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:58.720
And so I it was late early in the morning, by 1:30, and I had to call James to have him to unlock the door so I could get into the house.
00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:02.000
Made the phone, call James, woke up, talked with him.
00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:03.759
He said, okay, hung up the phone.
00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:16.959
And as I proceeded to cross the street across from Red Comen to walk back to my house on Cresthaven, it was a police car that was sitting right there, idle, facing Lovers Lane, and it didn't drive off.
00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:18.399
I didn't pay any attention to it.
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:19.680
Walked by the police car.
00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:22.399
Next thing I heard was a helicopter shined this light on me.
00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:29.120
And minutes later, just numerous police cars came from everywhere, and they were screaming, get on the ground, get on the ground.
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:30.560
So I laid on the ground.
00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:31.839
I'm handcuffed.
00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:36.639
They put me in the back of the police car and I'm asking them what's going on.
00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:41.279
I told them my friend Bo is right around the corner, just dropped me off.
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:42.639
I'm right at the house.
00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:44.319
Nothing was really said to me.
00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:48.160
And they told me when I got downtown to just talk with the detective.
00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.040
So at that point, I was apprehended.
00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:55.120
I was arrested, but I had no knowledge of what was going on.
00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:58.720
So let me let me back you up just a second here.
00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:05.519
After you're crossing, crossing the street and you're proned out, is what it's officially called.
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:12.079
So they have you proned out on the on the ground with your palms up for them to actually affect the arrest.
00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:12.879
Right, right.
00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:21.680
How long are you out here in this proned out position before you actually are taken taken into custody?
00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:22.319
Yeah.
00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:26.399
At some point, I'm assuming they read you your Miranda.
00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:27.360
Yes, yes.
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.480
And then taken off to headquarters.
00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:31.680
Yes, yes.
00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:45.680
I'm going to say uh laid out on the ground, a proned out, that experience was probably about, you know, it seems like an eternity because you don't really know.
00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:48.959
It could have been five minutes, it could have been 15 minutes.
00:07:49.120 --> 00:08:00.240
I know that they were patting me down uh searching for a gun and asking me where a weapon was, um, and I was handcuffed, put in the car.
00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:11.199
But what they did wrong, the one of the first errors in my case when I do training with police officers, they took me to this crime scene.
00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:20.720
And we would later find out that a shooting, a murder had happened at this club uh by Bachman Lake.
00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:27.759
And uh, after the club would let out, people would go to the Texaco and just hang out and kick it.
00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:30.319
And this was the summertime.
00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:33.759
And if ironically, you know, this is almost around the anniversary.
00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:35.679
May 15th.
00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.519
So these are uh uh interesting days.
00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:40.399
Days for you.
00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:51.840
Um and so the club was let out, and two young men, they had a white 300 ZX, um, they had to take the T tops off, and they was talking to a girl at the Texaco.
00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:53.600
Everybody's hanging out.
00:08:53.759 --> 00:09:04.799
So, anyway, somebody comes up, runs up from behind the Texaco, shoots in the top of the car, fatally wounds the driver, and they um wound the passenger.
00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:08.720
And this person runs off, and a car comes to pick this person up.
00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:14.159
These are what the witness statements um were provided to the police officers.
00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:28.080
But when they arrested me, instead of taking me straight downtown, they took me to this Texaco, and it was one witness out of the ten that was behind the Texaco that saw me in handcuffs.
00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:40.799
And so what happened at that point in time, a tainted identification process occurred between the potential suspect or the suspect and one of the witnesses.
00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:47.200
They conducted a gunshot residue test on my hands at this Texaco.
00:09:47.360 --> 00:10:07.039
Uh the handcuffs were still on, but when this test was done, I was then placed in the police car, and then I was taken to capers against persons, crimes against persons, where I would be um introduced to the detective that would then interrogate me about where I had been.
00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:18.320
Where I would be um introduced to the detective that would then interrogate me about where I had been and everything uh that day.
00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:26.399
And this was back then when I talk with a lot of youth, I tell them, always remember or memorize one phone number.
00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:30.000
Because I knew everybody's phone number who I was with that day.
00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:30.639
Correct.
00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.360
And so I told the detective, man, I left from James, I gave him James' phone number.
00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:38.000
Went to Betty's house, I gave him Betty's phone number.
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:42.080
So you're building a sequential list for alibis.
00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:43.279
Alibis, yeah.
00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:52.399
And I'm arrested about 30 minutes later, so I didn't have time to call five people to tell them a detective is getting ready to call them.
00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.240
And so I Yeah, because it's not like now where you could just pick up your cell phone or you could text.
00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:01.679
Yeah, this was pre, you know, this was when they had the big things in the car type era.
00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:04.320
Oh, big bag phones.
00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:05.360
Yeah, kind of things.
00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:07.120
That's this is that era.
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:14.639
And so, but I gave him five phone numbers and told him every everybody who I've been with, and the detective got him.
00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:22.000
He went out, he stayed gone for uh once again, seemed like in an eternity, and he came back in, he said, Well, Richard, your alibi's checked out.
00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:25.039
And so everybody said that that you was with them.
00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:34.000
And say, but we have one person that said they saw you kill one man and shoot another person, and you're gonna be arraigned for murder and attempted murder.
00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:36.080
Wow, my goodness, my goodness.
00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:40.960
Okay, so let that sink in for a second.
00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:51.039
Uh so you're arrested, you're going through the process of arraignment, you hear the charges against you.
00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.960
What is that feeling for you in that moment?
00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:00.320
Uh and let me say this.
00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:13.120
I'm sorry if some of the questions I may ask you, if it's triggering, uh I I I'm trying to just get to the story here and I'm not discarding your feelings.
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:13.840
No, no.
00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:25.679
You I so what I will I will put a uh a stick pen at that point and say, I believe that all of our lives' journeys are testaments for other people.
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:34.080
And if we can't be vulnerable about what we experience, whether we failed in it or overcame, then who are we actually helping?
00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:34.799
That's right.
00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:42.480
And so there's nothing really about my experience that, you know, I would not be open to express.
00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:49.759
Um maybe sometimes I don't have words because words could actually dumb down the experience for lack of better words.
00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:57.360
But for me, um, you know, I grew up, so my dad, stepdad was a disabled veteran.
00:12:57.519 --> 00:12:57.759
Okay.
00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:03.679
Um, this was during the time when Stranger Danger, the police officer is your friend.
00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:15.600
I remember uh McGruff the crime dog, you know, all of these things that we kind of was pillars of our our growth and childhood and interactions with police officers.
00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:30.399
And when you are arrested by an entity that you were brought up to respect and and rever and acknowledge, it hurts the inside of you because it's almost as if your parent has let you down.
00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:31.279
Correct.
00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:39.200
Because there is a standard there that has there's a trust there that has been broken.
00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:51.279
Um and then understanding that the system is supposed to have places of correction and acknowledgement, interrogation, correct, getting the information, uh, confirming this is true or false.
00:13:51.360 --> 00:14:06.720
And when all of that is falling down, now you're forced to really challenge your perception of how the system has been presented to you and how do you deal with the current situation that you're in.
00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:14.000
And so for me, at the age of 19, I mean, I hadn't experienced a lot.
00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:18.080
Uh and you know, um, I had just graduated from high school.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:19.600
And you said Skyline High School.
00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:20.720
Let's go, Raiders.
00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:21.759
I can work with Skyline.
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:22.480
Right on.
00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:24.639
I love Skyline, I loved it.
00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:33.279
Um so you're here in the in the in this court arraignment and you hear this, these charges.
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:34.159
Yeah.
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:42.960
Inside in that internal space, what is that feeling?
00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:44.320
What does that feel like?
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:45.200
Yeah.
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:52.399
The words of my mom, don't ever put yourself in a place where I can't come get you out.
00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:55.440
So you feeling like you let mom down.
00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:57.039
I let mom down.
00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:00.080
Mom, that was the biggest thing for me.
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:06.960
It wasn't really um being wrongfully arrested because I know I hadn't killed anybody.
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:07.519
Correct.
00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:13.120
It was the reputation um that my father, my mom, my dad had stolen.
00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:14.320
Embarrassing the family.
00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:15.759
Yeah, my dad was a minister.
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:17.200
So he died as a bishop.
00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:21.919
So I grew, you know, so that idea of the preacher's kid.
00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:23.600
A PK.
00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:28.480
The PK, you know, that idea of what would this look like.
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:38.159
And now instead of me calling my mom and telling her I'm getting ready to go to TSTC in Waco, because keep in mind I had left home to grow.
00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:42.799
Now I got to call my mom and dad and say, hey, I'm down here for murder and attempted murder.
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:42.960
Yeah.
00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:44.799
And I don't know what they're talking about.
00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:45.279
Yeah.
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:54.559
Um, and I made when I made that call, when I finally made that call, after I talked to the detective, after I was arraigned, after they gave me a bundle$350,000.
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.320
In 1994.
00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:57.440
1994.
00:15:57.840 --> 00:15:59.120
That's significant.
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:03.200
After all of that happened, I was able to call my mom and my dad.
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:04.720
And I remember the call.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.399
Uh, my mom told me something.
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.200
She said, Richard, we know you're innocent.
00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:09.759
Right.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:11.679
It was she didn't say we believe.
00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:12.480
Right, we know.
00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:13.200
We know.
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.600
It's like an uh affirm affirmation.
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:16.799
I was there in spirit.
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:18.240
She raised you.
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.000
Yeah, she she knew it's so.
00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:21.039
She knows she knows you.
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:22.159
She knows her kid.
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:22.639
Right.
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:23.039
Right.
00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:34.320
And so I think it was it was in those words of consolation, and then my father being the the spiritual articulator of the family, the truth's gonna set you free.
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:40.879
So you have the combination of both wrapping you in a uh uncontrolled situation.
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:45.519
So uh so you're in jail.
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:53.039
Um, I'm assuming, and I it maybe I'm sketchy here, but you're never released.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:53.840
Correct.
00:16:54.159 --> 00:17:04.400
Okay, so you go from being arrested for this heinous crime to arraignment, jail, prison.
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.000
Trial, correct, conviction, prison.
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.039
And all of this takes how much time?
00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:13.680
Uh 17 months.
00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.680
17 months you're locked up before you go to trial.
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:19.119
Before I go to trial.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:22.160
I have a question.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:22.720
Yeah.
00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:25.039
Off topic, but on topic.
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:26.960
What did your jury look like?
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.599
Yeah, so I had a diverse jury.
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:30.079
Okay.
00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:32.400
I had a very diverse juror.
00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:37.039
The actual jury reforman was a young African American woman.
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:52.000
Um, but what I'll also say is when I talk with um people, very few people that serve on jurors ever look at the person sitting beside the attorney as being innocent.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:52.559
That's true.
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:53.279
That's very true.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:54.079
That is very true.
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.240
But our law says you're innocent until proven guilty.
00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:04.079
The average person gets that jury summons and in their head, okay, somebody is guilty.
00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:06.160
No, that's a that's a reality.
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:20.079
It's that's that's worth the conversations and the time to uh consider what new what needs to happen with that process because and it doesn't matter largely if it's a criminal or civil case.
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:20.720
Correct.
00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:31.279
They the jurors tend to believe uh evidence-based information, whether it's tainted or not.
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:43.279
Certainly in your case, I mean and even today, like how do we get people to, if they're a juror, yeah, sitting in their seat to look at the other person and connect and say, What if this was me?
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:44.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:47.920
I mean I don't know how we do that, but I mean I I don't think you can.
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:57.119
I think it's just giving a better understanding of what reasonable doubt is, giving them the understanding that the attorney, the burden of proof is not on the attorney.
00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:05.119
If a prosecutor uh presents evidence that's questionable, embody, embolden the jurors to ask questions.
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:05.359
Yeah.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:12.160
So that at the end of the day, no, you're not letting a guilty person go and no, you're not incarcerating an innocent person.
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.960
So I think we have the tools that are great.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:23.599
I think the average person don't understand how to use the tools in the toolbox effectively.
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:26.480
And if that's the case, then that's still a systemic issue.
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:27.759
Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:32.319
Now, I'm gonna move us a little bit, uh move the needle just a little bit.
00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:32.640
Yeah.
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:34.480
So you're convicted.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:40.240
Parents in the in the audience, in the courtroom.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:46.400
Um what is that like for your parents hearing guilty?
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:47.279
Yeah.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:54.480
Um, so uh uh uh if if I could paint just a back sheet, so I stayed in the county jail.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:56.480
I was locked up May 15th.
00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.079
I went to jury trial, August of 1995.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.960
So May 15th, 1994, I was arrested.
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:07.279
August of 1995, I'm collecting my jurors.
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:10.079
We had a five-day jury trial.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:11.519
The evidence was presented.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:16.720
Now here's the evidence the you heard the murder, you heard the crime.
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:18.640
It was 10 witnesses.
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.559
All of them saw this person shoot these people.
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:29.039
The description of the shooter was 6'2, 6'4, real dark complexed.
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:29.680
Oh wow.
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:32.160
Had on here.
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.119
And we go back to the jurors.
00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:41.599
You see, 6'2, 6'4, real dark complexed, had on a white shirt and shorts.
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:47.119
Um the gentleman that survived testified that I did not look like the person.
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:48.000
The shooter.
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:48.319
Wow.
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:49.599
That did the shooting.
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:59.839
There was a young lady that was talking to the men in the car as this person came up on the vehicle, and she said that he didn't look like the shooter.
00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:02.000
He's too light-skinned.
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.319
He's not dark enough, he's not tall enough.
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:10.799
But you had the one person that saw me in handcuffs that was behind the Texaco.
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:15.599
So out of all ten witnesses, one person said that I did the shooting.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:32.880
What the Innocence Organization found out later on, another error in my case was when they took all 10 witnesses downtown, the photographic lineup that they used, I was the only person in the photographic lineup with a white tank top shirt on.
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:40.160
And so it's a suggestive photographic lineup that you have 10 people looking at.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:47.759
And the only person that picks me out is the person that the one on one tainted identification process was done with.
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:57.599
The other nine people are looking at this photographic lineup, and even though mine is suggestive, they don't see the person in the photograph.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:58.559
It's not him.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.599
It's not him.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.279
He's not in the lineup.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.559
So all of this information is coming out in trial.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:09.200
Now, the challenge was the gentleman that testified against me.
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:11.119
His testimony was very critical.
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.480
Why was it critical?
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:16.720
Because when the shooting happened, he jumps in his car.
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:23.279
He follows the white Cadillac, which is the vehicle that came to pick up the gunman.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:26.880
He's following this white Cadillac from Bachman Lake.
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:37.599
The white Cadillac goes up Bachman turn, up Lemon Avenue, takes a turn down Lemon Avenue, and this guy is following this car and he sees the shooter get out of the car.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:39.680
Where does the shooter get out of the car at?
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:41.680
By sewer Cadillac Shop.
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.720
The guy runs into the housing complex.
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:52.960
And now this guy sees the car, sees the shooter get out, run into the housing complex.
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.359
He then goes to the Texaco.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:58.799
Hey, I just followed the car.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.680
The shooter just got out on Lemon Avenue.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:02.319
Boom.
00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:05.839
The police put the APB out, but who's walking up the street?
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:06.799
Not you.
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:08.000
It's me.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:09.680
It's the perfect storm.
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:22.880
It's the perfect storm to whereas the innocence organization proved that it was about a 15-minute difference between the guy seeing the shooter get out the car, correct?
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:35.359
Him getting to tech cutting to the Texaco, those police officers getting that information, then sending out this APB for a 6264 individual, and I still didn't fit the bill.
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:35.920
Let's go back.
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:36.400
Description.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:37.359
How tall are you?
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:39.519
I'm about 5'8 now.
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:41.599
And you're not dark-skinned.
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:44.960
And my turn, my this is what the prosecutor said.
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.279
The prosecutors expressed this in trial.
00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:55.039
When you read my transcript, he said, I understand that Richard is not uh dark-complexed, very dark complexed.
00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:06.319
And all of the witnesses are saying this and said, please keep in mind that he's been in the county jail over 15 months and his skin complexion has lightened up because he has not been in the skin.
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:07.759
And he stood on that.
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:09.920
It's in the actual transcript.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:16.240
In the actual transcript, when you read my transcript, Now was this a white prosecutor or a black prosecutor?
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:18.240
It's a white prosecutor, white prosecutor.
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:19.359
Wow.
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:20.480
That's deep.
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.799
And people tend to believe things that they hear if it sounds a certain way.
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:32.319
If it sounds, and we go back to the Jewish, everything is, everything that I'm saying, we had 12 people that heard it.
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:37.599
So that's why it's hard to you can't get mad at one entity when areas.
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:39.839
Yeah, the system failed in a lot of ways.
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:43.599
So mom and family devastated.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:44.480
Yeah.
00:24:46.079 --> 00:25:09.039
They take you away and put you back in in the in your cell and start the process of uh getting you uh getting you transferred to uh Cofield down in Huntsville area.
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:09.680
Am I right?
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.880
It's East Texas.
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:12.799
Yeah, East Texas area.
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:13.920
Yes, yes.
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:23.039
Okay, so you're here now in in in prison uh for a crime that you obviously did not commit.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:34.400
And your time there in prison, what are you doing all of this time that you're you're locked up?
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:35.359
What are you doing?
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:38.400
Yeah, so I got a total of 60 years.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:43.200
It gave me 40 years for the murder, 20 years for the attempted murder.
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:49.440
Uh I left Dallas County in October of 1995.
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:50.319
Okay.
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:55.359
Uh I go through the traditional transfer facilities on Gurney Unit.
00:25:55.519 --> 00:26:02.400
Um, this is when I'm introduced to um the dehumanization system, the factors.
00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:09.519
And so when I'm talking with people, I I express that I went through four stages: fear, anger, depression, and evolution.
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:11.599
Fear being the absence of knowledge.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:13.519
I had never been in prison before.
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:14.000
Right.
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:22.079
And so really understanding the system itself and not having the knowledge of it presented an overwhelming amount of fear.
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:22.960
Absolutely.
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:32.720
Um and so going through those trans transfer facilities, understanding that number one, I'm not finna get paid to work in these fields, but that's where I'm gonna be literally working at.
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:41.839
So there is a mental adjustment that has to take place in order for a person to survive in freedom is is no longer yours, right?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.480
Uh what do you mean by the fields?
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.440
Literal fields.
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:46.079
The field fields.
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:47.039
No, but tell us what you're doing.
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:54.720
Yeah, so yeah, so you know, the 13th Amendment slavery and involuntary servitude has been abolished except for punishment of a crime.
00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:55.680
And so, what does that mean?
00:26:55.839 --> 00:27:00.799
That means the attributes, the elements that enslaved individuals is still in our prison system.
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:01.359
That's right.
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:07.519
And so one of the first, the main jobs that I did for the first five years was working in the fields, which is agriculture.
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:12.079
And so on Coalfield Unit, the main crop was sweet potatoes.
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:16.559
And so we would get up about four or five o'clock in the morning, go to breakfast.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:25.440
We would go back to our cell, we would wait for the field force, which was the men on the horses that would come down the hour, come down the theme with the spurs on their boots.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:45.359
They would take us out about five o'clock, strip us down, put us on a, put make sure we didn't have any contraband, and put us on the back of these trailers that was pulled by a tractor, take us off into these, take to the fields and whatever project, whatever um crop that we needed to pick, we would pick those crops.
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.000
Uh, you see them on TV where they're in a line.
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:48.400
Oh, yeah.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:28:00.000
Uh, you hear the person to turn, roll sing, and all of that stuff uh that we've seen from a historical standpoint is st it still existed in the Texas prison system when I was going through.
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:08.319
And so ironically, to get out of the fields, the boss, uh the person that's on the horse, has to acknowledge that you're a good worker.
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:16.480
And so I navigated myself up after five years going through uh the field system and being able to get hired in the kitchen.
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:28.880
And then after I got hired in the kitchen, I was able, so even the incremental steps of work in prison was reminiscent to um the oppressiveness of slavery.
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:39.440
Um, and then I would also say that I was blessed because when I got to Cofield Unit, I had been incarcerated then about three years.
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:49.279
Um and one of the first people that I met on Cofield Unit, I walked up to this unit, it was four stories, all brick, glass, no heated in AC.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:29:01.279
You walk into the back of the building, it's all iron, and they open this door, and it's like the minute the door shuts, the smells and the sounds is totally different than where you just left.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:06.720
And your whole body understands that you are not free.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:12.480
Yo, you're forever from that point of existence, it's undetermined.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:21.839
Um, but they took me to the barber shop, and this guy was cutting hair in the barbershop, and I was next up, and so he's asking me where I'm from, how much time I got.
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:24.160
I told him, and I told him I'm innocent.
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:25.599
And this guy looks at me.
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:26.880
He he said, You serious?
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:27.759
I said, Yeah.
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:34.160
He said, Well, man, if you're really innocent, and he wrote the address for this organization called Centurion.
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:36.000
Is that the one out of New Jersey?
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:37.279
Out of New Jersey.
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:41.440
He wrote the number, 221 Witherspoon was the address back then.
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.160
He said, if you're really innocent, you need to write down.
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:46.240
He said, Because I'm innocent too.
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.960
He said, they've been working on my case about 10 years.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:51.279
So I have a question right quick.
00:29:52.640 --> 00:30:03.039
You contact the innocent, uh, the centurion ministries out of New Jersey, nonprofit, in 2020, oh uh, in I'm sorry, 2006.
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:06.240
1997.
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:10.079
And it's when do they actually respond?
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:16.960
They responded then, like a month or two later, but they didn't take my case until 2007.
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:17.920
Oh, okay.
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:18.240
Okay.
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:21.599
So it was a 10-year correspondence.
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:30.799
And the uh the irony of the whole thing is the guy that gave me the address, um, his name is Ben Spencer.
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.759
Benjamin Spencer was wrongfully incarcerated.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:35.119
He's from West Dallas.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.559
And he did over 30 years for a crime that he did not commit.
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:46.079
He was released in 2021 and freed and innocent um for the charges.
00:30:46.400 --> 00:31:00.720
But it was then that from a spiritual context, um, I was I was believing that God was, even though I'm going through this here, what is the chances of me meeting this innocent man on my first day on this unit?
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:04.240
And he gave me a resource about an innocent.
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:06.319
I didn't know nothing about innocence organizations.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:07.680
My mom them didn't.
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:13.119
And so it was really being um humbly obedient, I guess.
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:22.079
You know, when you can be and you have every right to be angry and embody yourself, and there, there's still a lesson to be learned.
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:44.640
And so uh to answer the question about what did it feel like, there was a physical, it was a physicality of the acceptance of being incarcerated with the systems and the work and the dehumanization, but there was also an innate piece of hope by meeting so many other innocent people um in prison.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:49.519
You know, the guy that actually helped me file my rid of habeas corpus, his name was Ricky Wyatt.
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:50.720
He's also innocent.
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:54.799
He did 32 years in prison for a crime that he did not commit.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:05.279
Um, I did time with maybe about 10 or 15 guys that I know for sure right now, those cases have been overturned, uh, and they're out.
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:07.759
So it showed me that this was bigger than me.
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:24.160
And if you got a man down here that's been down here 10 years, right, and he's willing to take time and help and pass out information, and he's uh um a credible, you know, he it was a strength about all of these men that was down there um that still embodies us today.
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:38.160
So there's a breakthrough of what I'm labeling a breakthrough that happens with your case uh in was it tw uh 2009?
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:39.680
Yeah, yes.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.240
Okay.
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.400
Can you walk can you walk us through that?
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:47.519
Yeah, so um 2000, I'm gonna take you in 2004.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:52.319
I filed my writ of habeas corpus because my uh writ my direct appeal was denied.
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:52.720
Okay.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.319
Because we lost the jury trial.
00:32:54.640 --> 00:33:01.279
When you automatically get your direct appeal, that was done by the court-appointed attorney as well as my trial was court-appointed attorney.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:03.759
So the direct appeal gets denied.
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:05.279
Now what happens?
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:08.160
The person incarcerated is now the attorney.
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:15.599
And this is why Ben Spencer introduces me to Ricky Wyatt, because I have to put my writ of papers corpus in before I'm time barred.
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:16.000
Okay.
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:17.279
And what is time barred?
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:26.000
Time barred means that the Anti-Terroristic Death Penalty Act, um, it puts a time limit on the time frame that a person can file a writ.
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:35.920
If you don't have your writ in within a two-year time frame, then you're barred from any claims that you have that's regarding your incarceration.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:36.160
Yeah.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:37.039
Right.
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:48.480
Um, and so understanding that now I have to go into the law library in which I've never been and try to figure out what is a writ of papers corpus and how do I file it.
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.279
And so I needed my transcripts.
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:57.519
I called my dad and I asked my dad, and we found out my transfer was gonna be like$3,000.
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:00.799
We didn't have the money for my transcripts.
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:08.400
And so what I asked my dad was, Ricky said, file a Freedom of Information Act with the Dallas Police Department, and they're gonna provide your records.
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:11.119
So boom, we filed the Freedom of Information Act.
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:15.760
Um, we went down to the Dallas Police Department, and I paid$25 to get the records.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.559
Well, you say we, it wasn't you who it was my dad.
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:18.800
Okay.
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:20.719
But yeah, my dad, so we filed it.
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.639
Um yeah, I say we, yeah, yeah.
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.800
I'll I I Well you're part of it.
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:25.039
Yeah.
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:25.280
Yeah.
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:25.679
Yeah.
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:26.800
You obviously are part of the year.
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:30.960
And you are we because I do acknowledge my journey has really never been me by myself.
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:36.400
Um so the the the it was filed, my dad goes to get it, boom.
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:41.920
But when he sends it, it's nothing important enough for me to use um in these records.
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:44.159
Fast forward, that was 2004.
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:51.039
Fast forward, after 10 years of writing Centurion, I've now built up a rapport, and they believe in my case.
00:34:51.199 --> 00:35:00.000
The other thing that was happening was my mom and dad had met Miss Joyce Ann Brown, who is one of the first African-American females, um, and she starts Mass.
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:06.719
Well, the irony is Joyce Ann Brown was released by Centurion Ministry, and they loved Miss Brown.
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:15.519
So my mom and dad in our church had been volunteering at Miss Joyce Ann Brown's office way back when she was at the bank, and then she ends up in South Dallas.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:21.119
And so my mom, just being the persistent person that she was, finally gets on Miss Joyce Ann Brown's nerves.
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:21.360
Ms.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:24.480
Joyce Ann Brown starts working on my case, but she runs out of money.
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:24.880
So Ms.
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:34.800
Joyce Ann Brown calls Jim McCluskey, which is the head of Centurion, who Ben Spencer gave me the information to when I first hit Cofield.
00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:37.039
So all of these pieces of the puzzle.
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:38.639
It's kind of like coming together.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:40.239
They're coming together now.
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:46.480
And so when Joyce Ann Brown makes the call, they go ahead and move because my case manager now believes in my innocence.
00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:49.199
They purchased my transcripts and my records.
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:54.320
And in October of 2007, they send my records and my transcripts.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:56.320
We was on lockdown on Cofield.
00:35:56.559 --> 00:36:01.920
And when I jumped out the bed and I'm reading my transcripts, first time I had ever seen them a day in my life.
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:08.239
It's like reading this Alfred Hitchcock novel, seven volumes, and I just relived the experience.
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.360
Um, and then I got the police records.
00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:15.280
I didn't read the police records first because we had already purchased them, right?
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:15.599
Correct.
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:16.800
I had already looked through them.
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:27.760
However, when I got the records that Centerion had purchased, it was 85 sheets of paper in it versus the 25 that my dad had got.
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:56.079
And so when I opened up this particular documents that was given to Centurion, one of the first pieces of paper that I saw was a phone call that was made to the Dallas Police Department months before I went to jury trial by a young lady who was getting beat up by her boyfriend who had been bragging about killing one person and shooting another person a year ago at Bachman Lake who used a nine millimeter in May.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:56.800
Oh wow.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:58.239
May of 1995.
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:02.480
Because this is 1995.
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:05.679
She makes the call in '95.
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:06.639
Right.
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:14.559
And the person that gets the report says in the report, I see that we have somebody locked up on this case.
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:16.480
We need to look into this here.
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:20.800
That document was never turned in in jury trial.
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:23.679
It was never presented as evidence.
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:25.119
That was one piece.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:37.840
The next piece of information in the police reports was the actual people that was hurt that night just had just beat up a guy and pulled a shotgun out on him two days prior.
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:45.760
This was never brought out because the prosecutor was very adamant in the fact that there was no other suspects.
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:57.199
Well, if these people have assault charges pending on them because they just beat up somebody and pulled a shotgun out on them two days prior, and the person that they beat up filed assault charges.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:58.480
This is the suspect.
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:04.559
You may want to at least go talk to them and don't portray me as being the only suspect.
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:18.719
So it was three pieces of Brady material, Brady being exculpatory evidence that was in the possession of the police files that was never turned over during jury trial.
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:24.719
That was the key that started the door to turn.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:43.440
And in 2009, um, it was approximately 15 months after Centurion accepted my case in January of 2008 that I would walk out of prison.
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:53.599
And we were also blessed because Dallas had elected his first African-American district attorney, which was Craig Watkins.
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:54.800
And Craig Watkins.
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:07.360
That's right.
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:07.840
Yeah.
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:14.480
And he was a he was a defense attorney that captured the role of a DA.
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:23.599
And so his perspective about um their system and how justice is portrayed came from a very novel way.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:32.960
And so his office and the innocence organization connects, and we began to build up the case of my innocence.
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:39.280
You know what's really surprising about what you just said about uh Craig, Craig Watkins.
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:47.440
I was at the um at the Democratic headquarters the night that he won the DAC.
00:39:47.760 --> 00:40:05.360
Yeah, and the room just uh was so everybody was so elated by the fact it and it was almost like a sense of relief, like uh okay, now we've got this uh this brother in his position.
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:09.760
And that was a big charge with Dallas County to get these things right.
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:10.159
Yeah.
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:25.920
So once you find out that there's this exculpatory piece of evidence that is never seen, you did the public records request, open records request from the city of Dallas to obtain all of the information.
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:26.800
Yeah.
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:28.320
And this is held.
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:30.000
This information is held.
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:39.360
And now in 2007, all of a sudden, there's this evidence.
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:39.920
Yes.
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:46.320
This this this evidence that totally turns this case around.
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:52.400
And you gotta keep in mind that the information missed us two times.
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:52.960
Yeah.
00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:54.559
It never made it to trial.
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:57.440
The initial time, and then when you all did the request.
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:16.159
Um, you know, what I will say is as a result of the Richard Miles Act, so there's a law passed in 2021 that addresses the police officers and accountability of handling of the evidence.
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:29.599
What I'm gonna say, I hope happened, was after the initial investigation was done, um, my file is closed, it's put to the shelf.
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:38.639
In the time process of me being incarcerated in the county, other information is going on and it's added to my file.
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:51.679
Upon the time of me now getting ready to pick my jury trial, nobody went back to look at the files to see if other information had been added to the file or anything like that.
00:41:51.920 --> 00:42:01.679
I believe that at that point, whatever the prosecutors had from the initial interaction with me, the witnesses they ran on that.
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:10.639
I believe that my attorney never um tried to get the police files to see has anything extra or new been added into it.
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:19.760
Um, and then I also think that there is a very high likelihood that the prosecutor um had me for 15 months.
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.599
He had a testimony.
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:35.920
And one other piece of evidence that was very interesting, that Centurion uh challenge was a gunshot residue test, because I go back to when I was arrested and the gunshot residue test was done at the Texaco.
00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:52.480
The gunshot residue test came back two months after my incarceration, and it came back negative in the palm of my right hand, positive anywhere, no, no, it came back positive in the palm of my right hand, negative anywhere else, which was very interesting.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:57.199
So, positive in the palm of my right hand, negative anywhere else.
00:42:57.440 --> 00:42:59.360
Number one, I'm left-handed.
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:10.159
Number two, it's very ironic that it will come back positive only in my right hand because all of the witnesses' statements said that the shooter shot with his right hand.
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:27.039
The interesting thing is the gunshot residue test lady said that it barely met the FBI threshold level of handling or shooting a weapon according to the antimonium and barumum levels.
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:33.840
Fast forward, um, when Centurion takes my case, that is one of the things that they do.
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:39.280
We didn't have the money to test the gunshot residue test back in 1994.
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:45.599
So we accepted the evidence that was presented as being fact, but it wasn't fact, but it was evidence.
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:52.639
Fast forward, when Centerion hires the gunshot residue analyst, the test is false.
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:54.159
It's negative.
00:43:54.480 --> 00:44:15.360
They take her findings back to the lady that did the test years prior and 2010, she signs an affidavit stating that if given an opportunity again, she would not testify in the same manner as she did in 1994 because my hands were not dirty from gunshot residue or gunpowder.
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:19.920
She doesn't know why she testified in the manner in which she did.
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:25.119
So that was one piece of evidence that fell apart.
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:27.920
The other thing was the witness.
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:35.519
So the gentleman that testified against me, he um is interrogated or they went to talk with him.
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:40.320
Ironically, this time the gentleman is a uh police officer in Oklahoma.
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:42.400
He has a lot on his plate.
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:47.840
And he finally says, he said, Man, you all need to go back and talk to the prosecutor.
00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:54.880
He said, because I told the prosecutor that I really couldn't identify Richard as being the shooter.
00:44:55.199 --> 00:45:01.199
And he said that on the day of my trial, the prosecutor had my picture in his pocket.
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:15.199
And he said, You remember you picked out this picture that night when you go in when uh at the this uh at the photographic array, Margaret, the gentleman was the only one that pointed me out because he was behind the Texaco.
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:28.000
And so the more the gentleman said makes a signed affidavit, and he states that his identification of me was not by doing a shooting a person.
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:32.000
It was by the processes of the prosecutor.
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:48.400
The prosecutor saying, just focus on the told the witnesses, just ID the man sitting next to the sitting next to the defense attorney and he had his picture, ironically, in my pocket in his pocket the day of trial.
00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:50.639
So I'm gonna say something you didn't say.
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:53.280
This is again, this is a system failure.
00:45:53.760 --> 00:46:02.719
If the prosecutor had done his due diligence, he should have looked back at what new information could possibly have been going on with your case.
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:05.840
Yes, yes, most definitely, though.
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:13.840
So I look at the the the prosecutor as the the ultimate um defender of justice.
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:25.199
I look at the judge as being the orchestrator of justice, the one that orchestrates and makes sure that everything that's submitted is done in a harmonious manner.
00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:34.239
And when either fail to do that, then chaos happens in the system.
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:36.159
Speaking of chaos, hold on a second.
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:46.320
Speaking of chaos, how were you able to what anchored you mentally and spiritually during those 15 years that you were wrongfully incarcerated?
00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:47.599
That's a great question.
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:51.440
And I'm going to go with my spirituality.
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:53.840
I'm going to say two things.
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:57.440
I'm going to say the Joseph and the Elijah.
00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:10.159
So Joseph, Joseph being, because I grew up in, because I grew up under the church, um, we were taught to believe in what we were given.
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:20.000
And I will say that the average person has faith, but most have never been in a situation to whereas they had at they had to use it.
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:23.119
And it cost to use faith.
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:37.280
And I say that because I grew up knowing about the story of Joseph, who was wrongfully arrested, spent 12 years in prison, and everything that he did was beneficial for the people when he came out of prison.
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:49.840
And so if I'm growing up understanding and believing this instrument as being a spiritual guide, now I'm experiencing something that truly happened in history that I believe happened.
00:47:50.480 --> 00:48:05.840
And I must believe that if this spirituality, if God really exists and he helped this person back then, then I have to believe that that trust, that faith is still active now.
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:09.119
And so that's the first thing I will say that was an anchor.
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:26.400
And I will say the other thing, the reason why I say Elijah is because Elijah was a prophet that gets into it and he runs and hides in the mountain, and uh he's being tapped on the shoulder because he gets into this woe-o, woe is me spirit, feeling like he's the only one doing this fight.
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:37.199
And for me to meet people like Ben Spencer, Ricky Wyatt, Christopher Scott, Andre Caraj, Johnny Pinchback, Victor Thomas, all of these men are innocent in prison.
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:49.679
So it was the encouragement of seeing other people experience not only incarceration, but incarceration wrongfully, that those were my anchors.
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:55.039
And obviously the fruits was my family support, you know, my education.
00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:57.039
Um, you know.
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:00.719
Um so those were the other fruits of it.
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:04.159
But the supports were really, I will say, spirituality.
00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:16.719
You've had an opportunity to sit with the prosecutor from the Dallas County DA's office who actually prosecuted your case.
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:18.719
You've done your homework.
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:21.199
Thank you.
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:26.719
Uh, what was that conversation, that initial interaction like?
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:28.880
Did you want to punch him in this damn face?
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:31.440
Or what is the feeling?
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:38.880
You know, um, so I think the the initial punching would have come from my wife.
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:46.880
I remember I was at the house and I get this friend friend request on Facebook.
00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:49.920
No, yeah, that's what that's what she said.
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:55.199
It's about we're like sitting outside hating, and I'm like, oh man, I got a friend request.
00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:57.199
And she's like, who is it?
00:49:57.440 --> 00:49:59.039
I said, it's such such.
00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:00.719
I try to keep people's names.
00:50:01.039 --> 00:50:09.039
I mean, I mean, you can say this is publicly this this this gives the the audience the time to do their due diligence.
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:20.559
The officers, you want to know everybody who's involved with this, it's important.
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:21.760
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:30.639
So I I'll let them have let them have their due diligence and ramp, however, especially with the report, it was done by Sean Rabbit still at the man.
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:32.639
Uh yeah, yeah.
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:36.159
You know, it's not the punching though, he did say that.
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:44.000
So my wife, but but but what what what I what I've so I'm getting ready to accept a friend request, and my wife is like, what are you doing?
00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:45.280
I said, man, I'm finna accept.
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:46.559
And then who is he?
00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:47.280
What do you want to know?
00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:48.880
He didn't do, he did all this time.
00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:52.639
He just wanna, I said, man, just accepting the friend request.
00:50:52.800 --> 00:51:09.280
So I'm still disconnected to, I'm still disconnected to how I think the average person expects a person to feel or deal with um whatever they've experienced.
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:12.239
And so fast forward, I accept the friend request.
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:21.360
And then about a year later, October 2nd pops up, and October 2nd is national, October 2nd is National Wrongful Conviction Day.
00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:21.920
Yeah, it is.
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:27.679
And so, and when he inboxed me, now I'm feeling with all of this.
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:29.119
Wow, this really happened.
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:30.480
I just put this on Facebook.
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:35.119
I didn't know somebody was and he said, Man, I would like to meet.
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:37.360
I'm like, okay.
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:41.519
And so we set up a meeting space, and it was at a coffee shop.
00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:45.440
We met at a coffee shop by the name of Well Grounded.
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:56.079
And I picked this spot intentional because Well Grounded works with women that's been impacted by incarceration and homelessness, and et cetera.
00:51:56.159 --> 00:52:04.159
So very intentional on who served us and him knowing the ramifications of his actions.
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:04.719
Right.
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:15.119
Um, and so we meet at this coffee shop, and I remember when I met him, I walked in, and the guy is huge.
00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:34.559
He's a, I did not know he was that huge, and his physical uh features really was way because his stature was larger than I was, and so even in this moment, it's like a uh David and giant Goliath type of meeting.
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:45.519
And I remember um one of the first things he said was after I introduced, well, after I shook his hand, he said, I didn't know what to expect.
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:47.920
He didn't know what to expect from me.
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.239
He didn't know if I was gonna come in angry.
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:53.840
He didn't know if I was going to show up at all.
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:56.239
And he said I didn't know what to expect.
00:52:56.320 --> 00:53:08.000
And so we start off this very casual conversation, and he says that he has children, they're like 21 or something like that years old.
00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:15.199
And I go back to me being gone 15 years, and I was like, wow, man, I could have what could I have had?
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:16.880
Absolutely.
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:24.079
And you are the person that prevented me from your from your life.
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:28.480
What could I?
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:30.960
So do I get hung up on the what could I?
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:35.599
Do I get caught up in where I'm at and where I'm where I'm blessed to be?
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:45.920
And so we continue the conversation, and he says, Um, after we talked lightly about it, he said, Man, I apologize for what happened to you.
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:52.880
Now, the apology comes in twofold, because here's the first thing.
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:59.599
The first thing is never the only expectations that I have is the expectations of myself.
00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:01.760
I never have expectations of others.
00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:08.159
And so, whatever I receive from you, if I have no expectations from you, then I'm excited to receive it.
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:08.639
Sure.
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:16.960
And so the fact that he said, I apologize for what happened to you, says that he acknowledges that something happened.
00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:19.679
He's just not ready to accept the ownership for what happened.
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:20.880
Responsibility.
00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:22.639
His responsibility in it.
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:32.000
But the fact that he acknowledged that my experience was a wrong that was enough for me to say, okay.
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:34.960
And then he says, What can I do?
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:38.400
What can I do to make this right?
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:46.159
And that's when the conversation, because to me now, okay, well, let's make this a conversation.
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:48.000
Let's make this a talk.
00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:49.519
Let's sit down.
00:54:50.320 --> 00:55:01.360
And it was the first conversation, and I believe one of the only conversations that's been had between a person that was wrongfully incarcerated and the prosecutor.
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:07.519
And to me, what does winning look like?
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:17.280
Sometimes winning looks like you're losing, but the outcome is you impact way more people than just you walking away with a trophy.
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:35.440
In the criminal justice, and I'm always thrilled by the the term, but I I taught uh at one of the local colleges here for yeah it is for a few years.
00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:55.280
And I taught my students that and I taught my students that at every level in the criminal justice system you advocate for innocence as much as you do guilt.
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:09.199
So having that as a framework for where we should be in our levels of responsibility to a person's innocence and and or guilt.
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:22.400
Um I I feel like it was a total system failure, as as as Porter said earlier, but I also feel like when someone says, What can I what can I do?
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:31.760
Right, and they don't start with an apology and say, I was wrong, we were wrong, it comes off a little disingenuous to me.
00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:32.480
Yeah.
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:36.000
Um hearing you say that, I that's how I feel.
00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:36.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:43.440
You know, I think that there is a a very, there's a high level of pride in whatever we do.
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:43.840
Sure.
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:55.199
And in our work ethics, you know, we want to present ourselves in a manner and wrongful incarcerations, I view us as uh illegitimate children of a broken system.
00:56:56.239 --> 00:56:59.840
Um I don't refer to our system as a criminal justice system.
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:03.199
I do refer to it as a criminal legal process.
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:03.679
Right.
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:10.000
We have a great criminal legal process that if all procedures are followed, justice could potentially be the outcome.
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:10.639
Could be.
00:57:11.119 --> 00:57:11.519
Could be.
00:57:11.679 --> 00:57:12.000
Could.
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:17.280
So when we say we have a criminal justice system, that means that we imply that justice is in the system.
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:24.159
And even when a person is actually guilty and they get 50 years, the some family, you should have killed them.
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:25.519
Justice is death.
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:39.519
So is this a criminal legal process that is conducive to um addressing um a person's behavior and it's not justice at all?
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:57.119
Um, and I will say that understanding what it would have taken out of him to say I was wrong had to be put in him from the beginning.
00:57:57.519 --> 00:57:58.320
Hallelujah.
00:57:58.480 --> 00:57:59.039
There you go.
00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:05.920
So did you ask him why he sent you a Facebook request?
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:07.360
I didn't.
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:20.559
You know, by the time he did, I mean, I had I'm married, I'm two two kids, and so the to me now I'm living a life.
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:27.039
It may not have been my initial life because it was disrupted by the friend request again.
00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:45.920
Um, but I I guess a lot of things where um people hyper focus and um I don't consider as being uh as intense or as important.
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:51.039
And so for me, I never would have thought I was going to meet him.
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:57.920
But by me accepting the prayer, so is the means right now, does the means outweigh the ends?
00:58:58.800 --> 00:58:58.960
Yeah.
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:02.159
So accept the prayer request.
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:10.880
Now we got online forever a conversation between an exonerate and a person that's in him to prison.
00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:23.440
We had um Michelle Carter on the podcast, and she said um talking about changes in life, shifting from one part of your life to the next, how you have to grieve the life that you had.
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:33.039
And you talked about the stages that you went through after being wrongfully incarcerated, and how you got to the part of evolution.
00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:37.519
Let's talk about what inspired you to create Miles of Freedom.
00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:42.559
I know we talked about Elijah and Joseph, but let's talk more about what inspired Miles of Freedom.
00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:50.079
Porter, right before we do that, I have one question that I I I have to ask, keeping in the framing.
00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:52.079
You said something.
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:54.880
Um I'm gonna read this to you.
00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:55.280
Okay.
00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:57.039
And I I want your thoughts.
00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:01.679
Okay 728-716.
01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:02.480
Mm-hmm.
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:05.920
What does that mean to you?
01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:09.840
Yeah, um that's what I that's who I became.
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:12.880
Um I knew that number better than my social security number.
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:18.880
So that was a number that was assigned to me as a uh resident of the state, Texas.
01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:20.880
So you called yourself a commodity.
01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:21.760
A commodity.
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:45.760
I was a commodity for the system to use as it will in the in the manner in which it chooses that I was to be used, um, from working in the fields um to in the kitchen, um to only being given uh one pair of socks and one pair of draws a day, uh and that's turned in and handed out to somebody else the next day.
01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:59.440
You know, um from being disconnected from family, um proper medical assistance, you know, financial literacy, anything that could be conducive for a person to return home.
01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:09.360
Um I was prevented from those things because I wore the number 728716.
01:01:10.400 --> 01:01:26.400
And I think that even in that conversation, you know, um it kind of dovetails, you know, into the question that you um were um speaking about, you know.
01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:32.559
Yeah, as it relates to those points of evolution.
01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:44.800
I remember at the age of 30, uh I had been locked up 11 years, and I had finally worked my way out of the fields, out of the kitchen, and I'm working in the infirmary.
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:53.599
And the infirmary to get there, you number one, I had too much time on the books to be able to work in the infirmary.
01:01:53.679 --> 01:01:58.320
You're supposed to have a a little time because you're working around free-world people.
01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:11.519
So you're working around the doctors, the nurses, you know, these individuals haven't watched this TDC video that's then dehumanized everybody in white and saying that we're all, you know, animals and all of that stuff.
01:02:11.599 --> 01:02:12.880
They haven't watched that video.
01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:15.599
They're literally coming to work to help.
01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:16.239
Okay.
01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:34.400
And so working around these people gave me a different perspective, not only about people that were considered as overseers or authority, people of other ethnicities that treated me in a different manner than I had been treated in my past.
01:02:34.719 --> 01:02:41.440
And so it gave me an option to either stay in a box mentality about people and generalize them or be open to it.
01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:46.800
And so I'm working in the infirmary, and these women, they would come in every day and they would speak.
01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:49.039
I say, Good morning, Miles.
01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:52.239
And so my response is, all right, all right.
01:02:54.800 --> 01:02:59.760
And so, you know, imagine, you know, I'm 11 years in, I got four or five push-ups up under me.
01:02:59.920 --> 01:03:02.480
I got my broom standing up there, you know.
01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:09.840
Um, I'm desensitized, you don't supposed to look at women in their face because if you do, that's a case fratinizing with an officer.
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:15.599
So there are ways that you're not supposed to respond to women, and when you do, it has to be very callous.
01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:20.800
So I'm saying all of that to say I was getting institutionalized.
01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:24.159
And I was innocent.
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:31.039
I was becoming a part of the system because I was in the system.
01:03:32.159 --> 01:03:36.880
And I'm working, even though I'm elevating, I'm institutionalized.
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:37.360
Okay.
01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:44.159
The system is wrapping in me and it's personifying on everything that I say.
01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:46.400
I'm even mimicking the conversations.
01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:47.840
All right, all right.
01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:56.320
And what happens is this lady says, she says, Miles, we say good morning every morning.
01:03:56.880 --> 01:03:59.360
What does all right, all right mean?
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:04.639
And it was the first time that I had been challenged on my response.
01:04:05.679 --> 01:04:10.559
And when I thought about it that night, I told her, I said, man, it's just something we say.
01:04:11.119 --> 01:04:19.039
I thought about for the past 11 years before I got into the infirmary, when I wake up and I look at my celly, my celly says, You all right?
01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:22.800
I say, I'm all right, I'm all right.
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:28.559
Because you don't look at the morning as being good, you only look at that moment as being alright.
01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:43.840
And so the challenge to really say good morning in a situation when you're really not alright means that you're acknowledging that there's an entity that's powerful than you that still makes the morning good, even though your day may be messed up.
01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:51.840
And so I was challenged that night to look into this, it wasn't even a mirror, it was a piece of metal that they try to use as a mirror.
01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:54.880
That's what you look at because you don't have glass in prison.
01:04:55.119 --> 01:05:02.639
And I looked at my distorted figure because of that, and I practiced on saying good morning all night.
01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:03.840
Good morning.
01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:05.440
No, that's too weak.
01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:06.800
Good morning.
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:08.000
No, that ain't me.
01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:16.000
And so I finally come up with whatever that sounded like in the next morning when they came in to say good morning.
01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:18.960
I was able to say good morning back.
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:32.719
And it to me it was a point of evolution because even though I was becoming institutionalized, someone was there to pull my coattail.
01:05:33.119 --> 01:05:36.719
And that yielded to the manifestation even of Miles of Freedom.
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:40.239
The fact that, y'all see how I wove out of the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:47.440
Because during my time of incarceration, I met a guy named Aubrey Jones.
01:05:47.679 --> 01:05:50.639
And me and Aubrey became very good friends, man.
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:52.960
Aubrey worked in the law library.
01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:59.760
Aubrey, we were older gentlemen, um, and we would sit on the bunk and just drink coffee all day and just talk about.
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:01.679
By people and just talk about life.
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:10.559
And one of the things that we would see was people would return back to prison and we would hear the challenges of all right, man, it's hard out there, man.
01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:13.920
I couldn't get no job and all of this here.
01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:22.960
And living in this system, understanding that the average person isn't learning work ethics because you're not even getting paid to work.
01:06:23.440 --> 01:06:28.159
You don't even know that you're a good worker because nobody ever told you you pick sweet potatoes good.
01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:40.800
Understanding that the disconnection from health, you go in almost healthy, you come out with hypertension, high blood pressure, other things that are caused from stress.
01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:49.679
And Pop and I would talk, and I said, Man, if I ever get out, man, I'm gonna start an organization.
01:06:49.840 --> 01:06:51.840
And man, we're gonna help some people.
01:06:52.159 --> 01:06:55.599
And Pop said, if I get out, we're gonna help some people too.
01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:59.039
It's like the a real live life.
01:06:59.360 --> 01:06:59.760
Absolutely.
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:04.880
We real alive and living color.
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:14.159
And so fast forward, June of 2009.
01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:16.800
June of 2009.
01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:21.039
That's when I get the message that uh my dad had passed.
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:24.400
And my dad had passed six months before I got out.
01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:25.119
Oh, wow.
01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:26.559
Six months before I got out.
01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:29.119
Uh so my dad passed in in May.
01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:30.800
He we had the funeral in June.
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:32.719
I was not able to go to the funeral.
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:35.119
I walked out of prison October.
01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:38.079
October 2009.
01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:54.000
Um, but what happened in that time frame was the men that I grew up with, the drug dealers, the murderers, the thieves, the robbers, the men that I had seen, these were men that was holding me up.
01:07:54.079 --> 01:07:55.840
It's man, you're gonna be all right, bro.
01:07:56.559 --> 01:08:04.159
And what I noticed in prison was people reach redemption before rehabilitation.
01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:08.719
Because our system is not created to rehabilitate.
01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:17.760
It's only a means to address uh a criminal uh episode or behavior through punitive measures.
01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:25.680
And experiencing everything I did led to the culmination of Miles of Freedom.
01:08:26.239 --> 01:08:35.680
Being this holistic organization that uh addresses individuals, families, and communities impacted by incarceration.
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:37.279
I felt that.
01:08:37.920 --> 01:08:43.439
The greatest reward wouldn't be to just look for those that are innocent in prison.
01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:56.720
But how can we build a bridge for people incarcerated to come out and give back into the community as someone gives back into them?
01:08:57.119 --> 01:08:58.960
Which is a lot of times what happens.
01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:02.000
You come home from prison and you're guilty or whatever.
01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:11.600
Nobody really gives back into you, but there's a high level expectation and standard for you to give back into a community.
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:12.640
A community.
01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:13.119
Yes.
01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:19.199
Well, how can we be a community that you are ushered into and to really address you?
01:09:19.279 --> 01:09:31.760
And so that is the evolution, that is the uh turning point um that's yielded to the work that I've been doing now for the past 13 years.
01:09:32.079 --> 01:09:33.840
And stopping recidivism.
01:09:34.159 --> 01:09:39.359
The people that work or or you all work with don't go back.
01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:46.560
Yes, re reducing, stopping recidivism is one of our factors.
01:09:46.720 --> 01:10:12.479
And and I will also say very few times will you hear people say that recidivism, it's more than recidivism, because if you only hang your hat on the number of people that you are helped to not recidivise, then you could check the box on a person that's now homeless that's coming from prison.
01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:13.680
True.
01:10:14.079 --> 01:10:27.840
So are we addressing the quality of life that will ultimately lead to you not recidivizing, or do we just want you to stay out of prison?
01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:28.319
Right.
01:10:28.479 --> 01:10:38.159
We want to be able to make sure that everything that happens, from the point of the time you walk into the door to the time that you leave out, that the quality of life is different.
01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:39.199
What do we do differently?
01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:40.239
Was it a hello?
01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:40.720
Yeah.
01:10:40.960 --> 01:10:42.159
Was it a cup of coffee?
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:44.000
Was it an actual resource?
01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:47.920
Was it the harmonica from Shao Shank Redemption that gave you hope?
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:48.479
Sure.
01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:59.119
What tangible thing are we able to pour into you or give to you to know that the quality of your life is way better now than it was before you walked into here?
01:10:59.520 --> 01:11:03.600
What resources do you all ad mouths of freedom provide?
01:11:03.840 --> 01:11:06.479
And how can people support and get involved?
01:11:06.720 --> 01:11:10.319
Yeah, so um, first and foremost, shout out to our team, man.
01:11:10.399 --> 01:11:14.960
I I'm blessed to have an amazing team of uh we have 12 staff.
01:11:15.119 --> 01:11:17.920
I have a board of directors of 15.
01:11:18.079 --> 01:11:24.239
When I look at our services, we have an amazing case management team at the Martin Luther King Junior Center.
01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:30.720
We're located at 2922 Martin Luther King Junior Center in Dallas, Texas, straight down the street from the fair park.
01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:48.319
And so you can so yeah, I mean, anything from um your bus passes, um, your resumes, your job referrals, uh employment assistance, um uh housing assistance.
01:11:48.479 --> 01:12:01.119
We have our case managers really do a lot of uh cold callings to make sure that whatever you need, uh clothing, we have partners that provide clothing for our um members as we refer them.
01:12:01.520 --> 01:12:06.880
Um the first thing that we want to build, once again, is that community because that's what people need.
01:12:07.039 --> 01:12:11.439
That's what the average person went to prison because they were left out of a community.
01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:14.399
The other thing that we provide is we do workshops.
01:12:14.479 --> 01:12:18.239
We have job readiness workshops where we focus on soft skills.
01:12:18.319 --> 01:12:24.000
Um, we do those job readiness workshops at parole offices at the abode transitional facilities.
01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:25.840
We also have a food pantry.
01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:32.239
So, in partnership with you, uh North Texas Food Bank, we kicked off our food pantry in 2019.
01:12:32.479 --> 01:12:37.680
Um, and since then, we've distributed well over 3 million pounds of food.
01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:41.840
Our food pantry is no income restriction, no zip code restriction.
01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:50.479
So it doesn't matter where you live at or what your income level is, if you're experiencing food insecurity, you can most definitely uh come by.
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:52.239
And we also have a lawn service.
01:12:52.319 --> 01:12:56.319
And so our lawn service, kudos to Park South YMCA.
01:12:56.399 --> 01:13:10.159
Um, that's where I met Tracy at initially, um, because they were our first um corporate uh or commercial contract when we first started, man, in 2013, just cleaning up yards in South Dallas.
01:13:10.319 --> 01:13:13.039
They were the first contract that we got.
01:13:13.119 --> 01:13:18.079
And it's through the lawn service that we're able to earn revenue to do the work that we do.
01:13:18.319 --> 01:13:26.079
It's through the lawn service that we're able to employ people until we're able to transfer them out to livable wage employment.
01:13:26.319 --> 01:13:26.720
That's awesome.
01:13:26.960 --> 01:13:28.159
So that's pretty much it.
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:35.039
So again, his uh his his foundation is Miles of Freedom.
01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:36.319
This is Mr.
01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:43.840
Richard Miles, uh the founder and uh what's your website?
01:13:44.079 --> 01:13:48.479
Yeah, the website is www.milesoffreedom.org.
01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:52.960
And of course, I have a final wrap-up question for you.
01:13:53.279 --> 01:13:53.600
Okay.
01:13:54.000 --> 01:14:01.279
And I want to make sure that uh I get this one in because I I think you really um you're amazing, first of all.
01:14:01.439 --> 01:14:02.319
Let me just say that.
01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:17.359
Uh but anyway, so uh to wrap this up for me, my question to you is I know you've gone through the process of weighing and balance all of what has happened to you.
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:24.079
There's a book called Um The Body Keeps the Score.
01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:35.840
I don't know if you're familiar with um, I believe the the doctor, uh the MD that wrote the book, uh his last name is uh Van Deer uh Cope.
01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:36.319
Okay.
01:14:36.720 --> 01:14:39.119
Uh K-O-L-K.
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:41.359
Maybe uh look it up.
01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:55.840
And he he's uh emphatic about the notion through scientific uh documentation that the body uh when it goes through a traumatic stress event, basically it takes time off of your life.
01:14:56.960 --> 01:14:59.279
Uh where he's going with this.
01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:05.279
Will you my question is will you ever overcome this?
01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:12.399
Will I ever will I ever overcome this?
01:15:13.359 --> 01:15:26.239
Um I think that because we are blessed creations to have a memory.
01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:30.800
Um that's a good and a bad thing.
01:15:31.359 --> 01:15:40.960
Because the memory allows our experiences, good, bad, and in between, to always weigh on us in some fashion.
01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:49.439
The challenge is how will we allow our past to affect our present and our future?
01:15:50.479 --> 01:15:53.039
So will I ever overcome it?
01:15:53.920 --> 01:16:01.840
I think it'll always be there, but how I deal with it and how I use it is the most important part.
01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:05.359
And she said that's the last question.
01:16:05.439 --> 01:16:06.319
It's not the last question.
01:16:06.479 --> 01:16:07.439
That's her last question.
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:12.239
So this is the Making Black History Today podcast.
01:16:12.960 --> 01:16:17.840
The last question is what does making black history today mean to you?
01:16:18.239 --> 01:16:19.439
It's a great question.
01:16:19.600 --> 01:16:27.600
And um, as as we close out, first, you know, lastly, thank you once again for an amazing conversation.
01:16:28.239 --> 01:16:32.159
You know, what does making black history today mean?
01:16:32.399 --> 01:16:37.119
Uh first, it means reverencing our full past.
01:16:39.039 --> 01:16:47.600
Everything, the the strong individuals, those that were vulnerable, the wins as well as the losses, reverencing our past.
01:16:48.640 --> 01:16:52.000
The next thing is respecting our present.
01:16:53.119 --> 01:16:53.760
I like that.
01:16:54.319 --> 01:16:59.279
Um literally our present and being present.
01:16:59.840 --> 01:17:00.319
That's right.
01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:01.439
That's right.
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:03.600
Respecting both.
01:17:04.720 --> 01:17:11.840
And I think the other one, other one is to reinvigorate the future for our youth today.
01:17:12.960 --> 01:17:26.399
So we're reverencing our past, we're respecting our present, and everything that we're doing is reinvigorating the future for our youth today.
01:17:26.640 --> 01:17:27.039
I love that.
01:17:27.359 --> 01:17:28.000
I love that.
01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:28.399
Yeah.
01:17:28.560 --> 01:17:29.840
Well, thank you so much.
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:36.720
We're so glad that you chose to come and speak with us at the Making Black History Today podcast.
01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:44.399
We're really grateful for you coming in the study in the studio, the inaugural season, and thank you so much for all that you're doing.
01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:49.600
I actually want to get involved with Miles of Freedom, so I'll be contacting you because I'd like to volunteer.
01:17:49.840 --> 01:17:50.560
Cool beans.
01:17:50.800 --> 01:17:51.039
Yeah.
01:17:51.279 --> 01:17:52.640
So thank you again.
01:17:52.880 --> 01:17:58.960
Thank you all so much for joining us on the Making Black History Today podcast in our when?
01:17:59.359 --> 01:17:59.840
Today.
01:18:00.079 --> 01:18:01.840
In our inaugural season.
01:18:02.079 --> 01:18:05.520
Please like, subscribe, share, and follow.
01:18:05.840 --> 01:18:07.680
We'll see you in a couple of weeks.
01:18:08.000 --> 01:18:08.560
Thank you.
01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:13.039
You know, what does making black history today mean?
01:18:13.279 --> 01:18:18.079
Uh, first, it means reverencing our full past.
01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:28.560
Everything, the the strong individuals, those that were vulnerable, the wins as well as the losses, reverencing our past.
01:18:29.520 --> 01:18:32.880
The next thing is respecting our present.
01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:34.640
I like that.
01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:40.159
Um literally our present and being present.
01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:41.199
That's right.
01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:42.319
That's right.
01:18:42.640 --> 01:18:44.479
Respecting both.
01:18:45.600 --> 01:18:52.720
And I think the other one, other one is to reinvigorate the future for our youth today.
01:18:53.840 --> 01:18:56.159
So we're reverencing our past.
01:18:57.279 --> 01:19:07.279
We're respecting our present, and everything that we're doing is reinvigorating the future for our youth today.
01:19:07.520 --> 01:19:07.920
I love that.
01:19:08.159 --> 01:19:08.800
I love that.
01:19:08.960 --> 01:19:09.199
Yeah.
01:19:09.439 --> 01:19:10.720
Well, thank you so much.
01:19:10.880 --> 01:19:17.600
We're so glad that you chose to come and speak with us at the Making Black History Today podcast.
01:19:17.680 --> 01:19:18.479
We're really grateful for you.
01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:25.279
Inaugural coming in the studio, the inaugural season, and thank you so much for all that you're doing.
01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:30.399
I actually want to get involved with Miles of Freedom, so I'll be contacting you because I'd like to volunteer.
01:19:30.720 --> 01:19:31.439
Cool beans.
01:19:31.680 --> 01:19:31.920
Yeah.
01:19:32.159 --> 01:19:33.520
So thank you again.
01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:39.760
Thank you all so much for joining us on the Making Black History Today podcast in our when?
01:19:40.239 --> 01:19:40.720
Today.
01:19:40.960 --> 01:19:42.720
In our inaugural season.
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:46.399
Please like, subscribe, share, and follow.
01:19:46.640 --> 01:19:48.560
We'll see you in a couple of weeks.
01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:49.439
Thank you.
01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:53.840
You know, what does making black history today mean?
01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:58.880
Uh, first, it means reverencing our full past.
01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:09.520
Everything, the the strong individuals, those that were vulnerable, the wins as well as the losses, reverencing our past.
01:20:10.399 --> 01:20:13.760
The next thing is respecting our present.
01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:15.520
I like that.
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:21.039
Um literally our present and being present.
01:20:21.520 --> 01:20:22.079
That's right.
01:20:22.720 --> 01:20:23.199
That's right.
01:20:23.520 --> 01:20:25.359
Respecting both.
01:20:26.399 --> 01:20:33.600
And I think the other one, the other one is to reinvigorate the future for our youth today.
01:20:34.720 --> 01:20:37.039
So we're reverencing our past.
01:20:38.159 --> 01:20:48.079
We're respecting our present, and everything that we're doing is reinvigorating the future for our youth today.
01:20:48.399 --> 01:20:48.800
I love that.
01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:49.680
I love that.
01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:50.079
Yeah.
01:20:50.319 --> 01:20:51.600
Well, thank you so much.
01:20:51.760 --> 01:20:58.479
We're so glad that you chose to come and speak with us at the Making Black History Today podcast.
01:20:58.560 --> 01:20:59.439
We're really grateful for you.
01:20:59.680 --> 01:21:06.159
Inaugural coming in the studio, the inaugural season, and thank you so much for all that you're doing.
01:21:06.399 --> 01:21:11.279
I actually want to get involved with Miles of Freedom, so I'll be contacting you because I'd like to volunteer.
01:21:11.600 --> 01:21:12.319
Cool beans.
01:21:12.560 --> 01:21:12.800
Yeah.
01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:14.399
So thank you again.
01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:20.720
Thank you all so much for joining us on the Making Black History Today podcast in our when?
01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:21.600
Today.
01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:23.600
In our inaugural season.
01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:27.199
Please like, subscribe, share, and follow.
01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:29.439
We'll see you in a couple of weeks.
01:21:29.840 --> 01:21:30.720
Thank you.