I Treated My Team Wrong for 10 Years as CEO | James Lawrence

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Great leaders adapt to their situation.
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People say, Well, I just want to be myself.
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It's inauthentic not to be myself.
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I think there's some truth to that, but I think the bigger question is like, doesn't every great leader understand their audience when a CEO says something like, Well, I know that having engaged employees is important, but like we have other priorities.
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And I think, like, what bigger priority is than your humans that work for you every day?
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If people aren't your priority, I guarantee you your organization is not going to perform well over time.
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Comes back to time.
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Shouldn't it be good?
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Shouldn't you want to invest your time in something that like speaks to you right here?
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What's up, everybody?
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Welcome back to Gathering the Kings podcast.
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I'm your host, Chaz Wolfe.
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And today we are joined by James Lawrence, the CEO of Happy, a platform that's transforming organizational culture.
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From college dropout to industry leader, James's journey is a story of humility, personal growth, and embracing servant leadership.
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Get ready because we go deep on culture.
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James Lawrence, welcome to the King Stage.
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How are you, my friend?
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I'm doing fine, Chaz.
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Thanks for having me on the show.
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Yeah, man.
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We we're gonna have an interesting conversation.
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We always have interesting conversations, but you have a unique business, not like another one that I've had on the show, actually.
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So tell us, what is happy?
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What do you do?
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Well, I get the elevator pitch right away, Chaz.
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Come on now.
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So I I will ask you a question.
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Can I turn the tables on you?
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Ooh, okay.
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All right.
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I'm defensive now, but okay.
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Okay.
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So how long have you been working?
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Ooh, like in my life?
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Yeah, like first time scooping ice cream as like a 14-year-old kid, high school.
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Yeah.
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Picked up a a uh concrete hammer uh or a shovel or a uh a form, probably at 13 years old.
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Okay.
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So in total, like 24 years.
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24 years.
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And then how many different like jobs or bosses have you had?
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Like how many different environments have you been in?
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Goodness.
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Um, let's say a dozen.
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Okay.
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So 24 years, a dozen bosses.
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So I'm imagining you've never had in that whole time frame any seen any challenges with people, right?
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Never, not once, actually.
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No, no different ways of doing things.
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Nope.
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Nope.
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They they came all out of the same box, actually.
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Yeah, so no, no conflict, no at no disagreements about, you know, so so that's what happy does.
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Got it.
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And so, you know, we just apply behavioral science and AI to helping humans work together at work.
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Love it.
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So that's our elevator pitch.
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Here's a question for you, James.
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I when I think about harmony, or as you said, maybe alignment or however we want to dress this up, there we can work together, but I find that when when there's a common common definite purpose, right?
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So in Thinking Girl Rich, Napoleon Hill defines the mastermind principle as two or more minds working in harmony, unto specifically a definite chief aim.
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And so for harmony's sake or alignment's sake, how important is that like that one singular focus that we're both working on so that we can maybe overcome some of the conflict or work together in a scenario?
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How does that play into all of this in your mind?
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Yeah, that's an interesting question.
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I mean, I think where I start answering that is I think everybody knows what a poor team alignment looks like.
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And I think, you know, I got a chance to spend a lot of time talking to CEOs, and we can talk about that later in the show.
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But I got a chance uh in 2020 and 19 to like meet with more than 500 CEOs and like uh VPs of people and and uh heads of human resources.
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And it's like what you just ask is one of the questions I actually ask.
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So I have to say it's darn good question, Chaz.
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Yeah.
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But it was like the way I said it was like, what does a win look to you?
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Like, what's a victory look like to you with your team?
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And, you know, you mentioned harmony earlier.
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I think like mission alignment is really important.
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And so I think like that North Star of like what we're looking for, and whether it's, you know, getting there through the happy platform or understanding, you know, a disk assessment or leadership coaching, but it's what can we accomplish together?
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And it's got to be like one plus one equals three, right?
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Or if you've got six people in your leadership team, it's like we don't want, you know, one plus one plus one plus one equals two.
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And, you know, a team that's not effective is a detractor.
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And I'll tell you one line real quick.
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Um, sometimes you hear CEOs say something like, I couldn't do this without my team.
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Or um, you know, the team is more important than any one individual, me included.
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And to me, that's when I know that like a team is going to drive toward good outcomes.
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And then I think the opposite is, well, I have to make all the calls because, you know, I don't have a very good team, or my leadership team isn't right, or, you know, they're not, they don't have the information they need, or I don't trust them.
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And so suddenly now you've got a CEO surrounding him or herself with seven or eight people on the leadership team, or you have a manager that's surrounding themselves with people, but they're making all the calls anyways because they don't have the right people or they don't trust them, or there's not alignment.
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And that's really like a waste of human capital.
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But, you know, that's a team that's not functioning right, is you know, you've got, you know, someone that just is making all of the decisions and doesn't trust the people around them.
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Yeah, the principle that you're talking about here is is, you know, known, right?
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Maybe even cliche, which is like, well, yeah, of course, like the leader who makes all the decisions, like we know that that's bad.
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Everything that you said probably isn't hitting the listener going, oh my gosh, that's revolutionary.
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But they still do it.
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And so what I mean by that is oftentimes I find even in entrepreneurs who are, you know, 50 or less people, you're talking about in corporations that have probably a hundred plus people.
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Both ways, I find it's this person, entrepreneur or leader in an organization who's doing too much, right?
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And and they don't know how to how to maybe leverage uh teamwork or cohesion or alignment or harmony.
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And and so then therefore they're just a pretty strong individual.
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That's probably how they got into leadership or business ownership to begin with, and they're just like thrusting themselves forward, and everybody else is just kind of trying to hold on.
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And it doesn't really ever work out that way.
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Can you speak to this for a little?
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Why I mean, why do we keep doing this as entrepreneurs?
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Well, I've made all those mistakes.
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I mean too.
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I mean, and still and still make them.
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I mean, um, you know, there's no perfect leader.
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Uh, but no, I mean, you're right.
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I I don't think any of this is is groundbreaking.
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Um, what I do think is, I mean, I want to comment something you said earlier, which is you were talking about like different organizations and like different size organizations.
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So it's like when I first started talking to CEOs, like I was a CEO myself for 20 plus years and mainly in the automotive space.
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And I worked with a lot of CEOs already.
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But but in 2019, 2020, when I was researching happy, one of the things that I did was I made a commitment every day.
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I put probably 30 or 40 small groups together, kind of like many little mastermind groups, but mainly for research purposes.
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And I said, like, I'm gonna talk to five CEOs a week and I'm gonna ask them some questions because I was really passionate about creating happy back then.
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That's when we really started doing a lot of our research.
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And I thought I had this perception, like, you know, big businesses have figured this out.
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So if you're like a Fortune 500 company or you're a big Fang company, uh, you're in Silicon Valley, you know, you've been in business 30 years, like you figure this people thing out.
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Like people, oh yeah, you're good.
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Like little companies, 100, 200 employees, small businesses, startups, like they probably like trying to navigate through this people thing.
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So I'm like talking to these CEOs and I'm talking to a CEO of Fortune 500 company.
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And I go, well, tell me a little bit about your people.
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And you know, you've probably got this all figured out.
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And tell me about like I ask one question, which is like, so when your people get hired, like tell me about your onboarding process, like the work relationships that occur between your different employees.
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Like, is that up to them to figure out?
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Or to like, do you have an entire process of like onboarding someone?
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And it's like, you know what?
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These big companies, they're way more screwed up than the little ones.
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I mean, the CEOs were like, no, it's we're too big.
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I mean, and so in a lot of cases, these larger organizations had bigger problems, bigger people problems than the companies that were 500 people.
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Yeah.
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And I think it comes down to a very simple thing.
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People are messy.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it's hard.
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Like the people business is not easy.
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And in big companies, largely employees are just left to figure out their work relationships on their own.
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Kind of dependent on their department head or whoever they're, you know, whoever runs that division.
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But it's not always pretty.
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No, I would say most times it's not.
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Unless I have been in situations and built uh companies of my own, even where it's it's more put together.
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I wouldn't call it pretty, but maybe a little bit more organized.
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And so let's let's use this as a transition to talk about happy.
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I mean, it starts with a simple assessment, like there's many others that you mentioned, but this idea of being able to take a look at someone and their traits or who they are, there are so many benefits to this.
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And the rest of the show, we're gonna go deep on this because this is how I feel like for me personally, like if I can identify why individually Chaz Wolf has been successful, one, it's been from personal development, but inside of that, I know who I am, like truly to the core, because of assessments like happy, I can just not only self-reflect, but I can just be honest with myself.
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And then I can modify.
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And so we're gonna talk about this, but give us an idea.
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What's the happy assessment look like?
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Why, why does someone take it?
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What do they do with the results?
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Let's start there.
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Can I talk about myself in the third person?
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Because if I can do that, I'm gonna be happier in this podcast.
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Let's go.
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Let's go.
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Talk about this amazing guy named James for me, if you don't mind.
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Oh my gosh.
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So, yeah, you know what's funny is, you know, we we have developed our own assessment.
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It's you know, based on disk, um, which is, you know, probably the most popular behavioral assessment in the world.
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It's used by three-quarters of the Fortune 500, most of the branches of the U.S.
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military, but there's a lot of great assessments out there.
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And, you know, we started working 20 years ago with DISC from a company called TTI, and you know, TTI has got great assessments.
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And so, you know, assessments are kind of like a religion.
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Like if I started convincing you that my assessment was better than your assessment, it's like, you know, we're kind of getting into like, you know, you're Protestant, I'm Catholic.
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Like, well, let's, let's, let's go toe-to-toe on this.
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Um, so it's not a religion like that, we're all that interested in winning.
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The fact that anybody uses assessments is a win.
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Like you talked about self-awareness.
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Self-awareness is a really critical part of becoming a great leader or a manager or developing your own business.
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And so, I mean, the first thing is like I think assessments are fantastic tools, you know, if if you're invested in them.
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Happy art, we've got a little bit of a unique view.
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And I'll kind of just explain it to you like this.
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And it takes about 30 seconds, but you know, we are a technology, a platform that a company installs and all of their employees go into the Happy platform.
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And everybody takes this 10-minute assessment, it asks you, you know, 30 or 40 questions.
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It doesn't take very long.
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And as part of asking you those questions, uh, you know, it understands your work style.
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And once it understands the work style of everybody in the company, it can then render advice, insights, and guidance to each person that's personalized and contextual to them.
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And I'm going to give you an example.
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Chaz, give me somebody you work with at work every day or every week.
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Yeah, Sandy Elliott.
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She was just on the screen here a few minutes ago.
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Sandy, I love Sandy.
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So if you and I and Sandy work together and you looked up Sandy's happy profile and you looked her work style up, and I looked up Sandy and looked up her work style, we would see some of the same things, but the insights and guidance that it would actually show up on your screen, and the insights and guidance that would show up on my screen, would be different because you and I are different people.
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And so the way happy works is because it understands everybody's work style, it provides personalized guidance and insights.
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So it's essentially like an assessment, but that's personalized and contextualized to each person.
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So it actually gives you unique advice because you need different advice in working with Sandy than I do.
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Interesting.
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So that's the first thing that sometimes people don't really understand about Happy is the secret sauce isn't really in the assessment per se, but it's in the contextualization.
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Yeah.
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Because I'll give you an example.
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If you're a type A personality, which I'm not saying you are, but let's say you're a type A personality and um Sandy Um wants somebody to be you, you know, the right thing to Sandy is she likes honest, candid conversation.
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And the advice to you in Sandy's assessment is Chaz, you need to be, you know, honest and transparent and bold with her.
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Well, you're already that.
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So now you turn into a crazy person because it's telling you to go even more, you know, type A on her.
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Right.
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Right?
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That's bad advice.
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What it might actually say is Um Chaz, you're already pretty transparent and candid with her.
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Uh, make sure to do, you know, but she also likes data.
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So it might say something like, we know you're gonna be candid, but make sure you bring a few pieces of data to the table when you have a meeting with her.
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Now, I might be a data person.
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It doesn't need to tell me to bring data.
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I do that naturally.
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So it wouldn't be like James, remember to bring a bunch of data to your meeting with Sandy because it's like, I already do that.
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But it might say like, hey James, make sure that you're frank and open with Sandy.
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And so, really, what happy is all about is contextualized, personalized advice.
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And one of the things that um is interesting about learning in humans is when you really study like how people learn, like I'll I'm gonna play a little uh play along with you.
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Can I ask you another question?
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Of course, yeah.
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Love this.
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So tonight at 8 p.m., Chaz, I would like to ask you if you would like to participate in a three-hour seminar on negotiating with Japanese business people.
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Seven o'clock tonight.
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Okay.
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Possibly.
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Okay.
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It's it might be four hours, seven to eleven.
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Seven to eleven.
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Hmm.
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It less possible, but still possible.
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Okay, so maybe your intellectual curiosity is like, hey, that'd be pretty cool.
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Like I'd like to like, I'd like to actually learn how to negotiate better with Japanese business people.
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Yep.
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But you're like, now I can't watch NCIS with my like spouse, I can't play with my kids, like means I have no dinner, right?
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So like, but tell me very plainly, what is it about what I just asked you that made you go, like, man, that's a waste of my time.
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Like, why would why would you why don't you think that?
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Uh well, I didn't know the context of the situation or more specifically what I would be learning there, although I was open to whatever it was.
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So let's say you and I were flying in the morning to Tokyo and we were negotiating a$10 million deal with two Japanese business people that we'd never met before.
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How attractive would the four-hour seminar be tonight that we were gonna have?
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Oh yeah, I couldn't get enough of it.
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Right.
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So the difference is context, right?
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So the way the human brain works is it learns, it's it's fascinated by learning when there's an application.
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:58.399
And you and I just rapped on that.
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.759
Like you know that to be true, anyways, but you really know it because we just went through a little exercise on it.
00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:04.159
Yeah.
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:12.320
So learning how to, for example, learning a little bit more about, let's say, uh Tom in accounting.
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:18.639
Uh, if it's like, hey, uh, you know, would you like to spend some more time learning about how Tom in accounting works?
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.200
You might be like, eh, maybe.
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:33.759
But when Tom has rejected your expense report for the sixth time in a row and you're like ready to, you know, march into Tom's office and freak out, it might be really useful right at that moment for you to learn how to work through a conflict with Tom.
00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:34.240
Yeah.
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.159
That's what happy is all about.
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:41.600
It's not the unique secret sauce in the assessment, it's contextualized learning.
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:47.679
It's like, how do I learn at the moment I need it and apply it to like something at work?
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:48.159
Right.
00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:52.960
And so using this example here of Tom uh in accounting, I'm frustrated.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:17:04.160
I log into my happy platform and I like type in there somewhere that I'm gonna go meet with Tom and I'm frustrated and kind of like ChatGPT, it's gonna send me some advice.
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.279
Is that is that what I'm understanding, or is it a little different than that?
00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:23.680
Um yeah, I mean, it would, it does do that, but actually, more likely is if you're in Microsoft Teams, it actually knows you're meeting with Tom because it monitors your calendar and it actually about an hour before your meeting sends you tips on meeting with Tom before you actually have to do anything.
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:24.640
Wow.
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:38.079
So the way the tech works, yeah, the way the tech works is you know, we have this little saying, which is like the right piece of advice at the right time at the right moment and to the right person.
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:42.000
And so, like, I will say, like, our technology is relatively new.
00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:43.359
We're about a year old.
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:46.480
Um, so some of this is like an ideal state.
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:55.680
Like a lot of what I'm talking about, we have, but in the perfect world, you know, we're anticipating, you know, the human interaction you're having.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:00.160
So the technology happies platform already understands who you're already who you're working with.
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:07.039
So you can go through and like build a team and go like, hey, I'm gonna follow Sandy, I'm gonna follow Tom, like I'm gonna go follow a few people.
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.599
But we use some technology called smart follow.
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:14.079
And so it's kind of our own proprietary technology and we understand who you're working with in the organization.
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:19.279
So if you're using Team, Slack, email, Google products, like we understand who you're interacting with.
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.519
And so we're delivering coaching to you and insights already on the people you're working with.
00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:24.000
Yeah.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:28.799
And so, yeah, so the technology is smart enough to like understand who's in your cohort.
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.240
And sometimes it'll give you coaching on somebody you don't want.
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:33.359
It'll make a suggestion.
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:38.960
You can be like, hey, I only work with Tom for a couple of months and then I don't work with Tom anymore.
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:46.240
So you can like unfollow Tom for coaching, or you might have somebody new in your team that gets hired and you might be like, well, I just want to proactively follow them.
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:50.319
But I mean, the ultimate goal here is this technology works in the background.
00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:50.799
Yeah.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:52.960
So you can go look it up.
00:18:53.039 --> 00:19:01.759
Like if you're gonna go have a review with your boss and you're like, hey, or I'm like, I have a really important meeting, you can go like, or I want to pitch an idea.
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:07.759
Let's say like you're meeting with a CEO and you're like, hey, I gotta, I'd like to prepare for that.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:15.200
You can like go to the coach tool and go, like, hey, I I'm gonna pitch an idea to the CEO and it'll give you guidance on how to do that.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.599
But a lot of it's just like, how naturally can we integrate into the flow of work?
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:20.319
Yeah.
00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:22.480
I love the the technology piece there.
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:25.359
I I have not seen another platform do that.
00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:26.559
So kudos to you.
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:33.599
I love that you're spearing uh this into really all the assessment world because the assessment world has changed.
00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:36.160
Uh leadership and people communication and all that.
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:41.599
I want to I want to use this opportunity to go, okay, so it's an hour before my meeting, I get this little note, right?
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:45.440
Personally, Chaz Wolf right now doesn't have this technology, so I can't do that.
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:50.799
But what I can do is I can go to my assessment, I can go, okay, I'm gonna meet with James, here's his his assessment.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:54.079
Based on my knowledge, I can kind of you know maneuver this thing together.
00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:55.039
What's our topic?
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:56.880
So manually I'm doing this.
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.119
You have it in technology, which is amazing.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:19.680
But I've called this the scenario modification, but you're you're sending me information to tell me how to adjust or adapt or modify in that meeting what we think is a good outcome of like working together and conflict resolution and you know, harmony, but it is telling me to change.
00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:21.599
What what if I don't want to change?
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:23.599
What if I don't think that that's authentic?
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:25.039
Why why can't I just be me?
00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:26.720
Why can't I just show up to the meeting?
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:27.920
Help me understand.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:30.240
Yeah, I'm gonna answer that in two parts.
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:35.839
So the first part is, you know, you brought up a great example of you doing this manually.
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:39.359
And I would say like that's how people have been doing this for a very long time, right?
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:49.279
Is like, hey, I'm having some conflict with someone, and like, can I pull up, can I get access to their disk assessment or their culture index or whatever assessment that exists?
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:55.839
And I'm gonna read theirs and look at mine, and I'm gonna kind of like do some jujitsu to figure out like how to work better with them, right?
00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:56.319
Yeah.
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:01.920
Um, but I think the ideal state's a little yeah, mental jujitsu.
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:04.160
Yeah, but I think the ideal state is a little different.
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.599
I think you just hit on it, which is you ask, like, what if I don't want to change?
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:12.640
And I think the first thing is is that there's different levels of self-awareness, right?
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:19.759
And what you just described is like you have a real commitment to where you've seen value, like you've seen value in the jiu-jitsu, right?
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:31.680
Like you have challenged yourself to understand yourself and then ask yourself, okay, I've gotten good outcomes by learning how others like to work and then maybe adapting to their style.
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:33.680
And so you've gotten some really good outcomes.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:38.880
And so you continue to do it because it makes your work output better, it helps you build your business.
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:41.440
Um, and that's a beautiful thing.
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:53.599
I think how I want to say one thing is I think Happy's trying to solve a little different problem, which is trying to get rid of the jujitsu and just kind of giving you like the uh karate kid approach.
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:59.759
Like, you know, uh, you're not having to think about um necessarily what to do because.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.960
Because happy is kind of doing seeing around a corner for you.
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:10.799
And then over time, you're gonna start learning how to work with those around you, like because you're getting good outcomes.
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:15.680
So, for example, I'm gonna give you a quick example and then I'm gonna answer your original question.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:21.680
Have you ever walked into a meeting and had the person in the meeting be relatively quiet?
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:22.880
Yeah.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:30.480
So a lot of people that are outgoing or extroverted or like me, I talk with my hands.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:43.839
I might have walked into a meeting at the age of 25 and had somebody be very quiet and analytical and think, I might have walked out of that meeting and said, Chaz, I don't think Betsy likes me.
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:44.960
Yeah.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:47.519
And all Betsy did was just listen.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.240
Like Betsy was being Betsy, which was being an analyst and listening and observing.
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:57.440
And I was being, you know, a core D and disc, Mr.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.319
Super Extroverted, and going, Well, she didn't talk a lot.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.559
I don't like think she really gets me.
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:04.559
And that's a fatal flaw.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.279
That's thinking everybody looks at the world like I do.
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:12.480
And so in the happy world, we don't have to give you all that information.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:16.240
We can just say something really simple to you before your meeting.
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.480
Betsy tends to listen a lot.
00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:22.079
Don't be surprised if she takes a lot of notes in the meeting.
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:34.079
That little nudge to us is the difference in building relationships because it's giving you a little context on who Betsy is and how Betsy likes to look at the world.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:39.119
And you don't go into that meeting and you don't walk out of it going like, man, Betsy doesn't like me.
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:39.680
Yeah.
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:47.200
And so hopefully, you know, it's I know you didn't like graduate college at 21 and become super emotionally intelligent.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.079
Like you've probably been through some pain to get to where you are.
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:50.799
Yeah.
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:56.400
So I think solving that equation, like that's the real, that's like the heavy lift, right?
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:04.000
Is like, how do we make it so you don't have to necessarily like wake up and be like, man, I really want to change and I want to be self-aware.
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:08.480
It just like, it's like cliff notes, just makes your life easier.
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:12.720
So I know I answered your question with a very circular question.
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:14.480
I don't know if you found that interesting.
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:16.000
No, no, it was super good.
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:23.279
I think the the the feedback there for the listener is one, not everybody looks at the world like you do.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:31.359
Like we know that, but in situations that you just gave super plainly, we forget because we're seeing things through our lens only.
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:38.400
When we have the ability to see things from the other person's lens, it basically just gives them permission to be them.
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:45.279
And now we can take it a step further and go, okay, now we're not just coworkers, and maybe like you're giving me a little tip to like work better.
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:52.880
As a leader, I've always taken it as my responsibility to not meet them in the middle, but to hop over the fence and come all the way to them.
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:54.640
It's my responsibility, right?
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:59.519
And so what that has meant for me, you know, in this case right here, like I'm leading this show.
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.799
I am not an extrovert on a piece of paper.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.240
I'm a learned extrovert or I'm modifying as we talked about before, right?
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:13.440
So what how boring would this show be if I just didn't have much energy, right?
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:16.480
And maybe there's show there's shows like that, but not about success.
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:24.160
And so as I'm coming over the table wherever you are, now you're an extrovert, so it's easy, but it's my responsibility to come to you.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.880
So let's talk about it from a leadership perspective, right?
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:37.440
So it's not just like the little tips uh to give like the other person like room, but it's like now it's a responsibility as a leader, in my opinion, to like make this meeting the best it can be.
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:44.880
And if that requires me to modify so that Betsy can listen and take good notes and whatever, because she's gonna get the same tips that you are about me.
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:47.039
But as a leader, I still think it's my responsibility.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:49.759
Talk about from a leadership perspective, is what I'm trying to get you to get to.
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:51.279
Well, you're totally right.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.279
I mean, great leaders adapt to their situation.
00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:06.079
And it doesn't mean that, like, hey, there's always that moment where you've got to have that goat on the mountaintop moment where like, you know, you might have to um motivate, inspire.
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.799
And and, you know, you hear this a lot of times, Chavs, when people say, Well, I just want to be myself.
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:13.920
You know, it's inauthentic not to be myself.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:14.400
Yeah.
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:21.920
And I think there's some truth to that, but I think the bigger question is like, doesn't every great leader understand their audience?
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:22.480
Yeah.
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:28.640
Like to me, great leadership is about understanding what someone needs from you.
00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:36.079
And like, I know this isn't super in vogue, but like I'm a big fan of like historical great leaders like like Vince Lombardi.
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:38.400
Um, like, I'm a big, I love football.
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:41.759
And um, like I really am a student of Vince Lombardi.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.480
And like a lot of people didn't understand Vince Lombardi.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:52.480
Like, he kind of over time kind of got this reputation of a hard ass coach where he drove his players really hard.
00:26:52.640 --> 00:27:02.480
And, you know, kind of like in cultural folklore, people are like, well, you know, you can't coach like Vince Lombardi coaches anymore.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.119
Like, you know, players today are different.
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:14.720
Well, if you actually go back and look at what Vince Lombardi said about his players, I think I don't remember how many players were on a football team back in the 60s, but let's just say it was 50 or 80.
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:21.200
There's many quotes where Vince Lombardi said, I have 50 men on my football team and I treat them as 50 unique people.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:25.839
And, or saying something like, My team is comprised of 50 individuals.
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:39.279
And in one of the uh biographies on Vince, it said, you know, he knew he had this art of knowing when to put his arm around somebody and quietly talk to them and when to light them up in front of the team.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:39.839
Love it.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:55.759
And he said, like, I forgot the name of his like famous offensive linemen, but he had like two offensive linemen that like he said that I knew after a bad game, I had to like in front of the whole locker room, I had to dress those guys down and they would come out the next game and they would just dominate, right?
00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:58.000
But his quarterback, he couldn't do that with.
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:03.119
If he did that to his quarterback, his quarterback would go in the tank, you know, wouldn't perform.
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:10.000
And what he had to do with his quarterback is put his arm around him, go for a walk around the, you know, stadium and talk to him.
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:11.599
And that's no different, right?
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:15.039
That kind of leadership is no different than's happening in 2024.
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:16.799
Know your people, right?
00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:22.559
If you invest in knowing your people and treat them all as individuals, like you're just gonna get better performance, right?
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:24.880
Or you're gonna you're gonna win more Super Bowls.
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:26.880
Hey, kings and queens, Chaz Wolf.
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.279
I want to talk to you about something that's super important to me.
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:37.279
We put a lot of time and effort, we meaning myself and my team, into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day.
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:43.839
And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too.
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:57.759
So we would love if you would like, comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things on social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify.
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:03.359
We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs so they can grow their business as quick as possible.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:10.160
Together, we are building a community of like-minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights.
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:11.200
So let's do this.
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.839
Let's help each other, let's help each other grow.
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:16.480
Yeah, well, I love that.
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:18.079
Well, let's let's talk about this unique.
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:30.480
I haven't had a chance to bring this up in a podcast yet, but since you're a football fan and a Super Bowl uh uh mention there, we've got, you know, Travis Kelsey yelling at uh Andy Reid in the Super Bowl just a few weeks ago.
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:31.599
I'm in Kansas City.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:37.200
Um Chiefs fans love what's going on, but the rest of the world was like, who is this maniac?
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:50.640
And talk about the the moment there uh that happened, and then the subsequent moment that happened later where Andy then followed up with it with a little bit of you know uh shoulder bump to to Travis a few minutes later.
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:51.759
Talk about that.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:30:00.799
Yeah, I mean that's you know, I coach football, youth football, and you know, you wouldn't want to see me on the football field sometimes, Chaz.
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.079
You know, it's it's like how the sausage is made isn't always the prettiest thing.
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:04.720
That's right.
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:16.319
Um there's a beauty of the game of football, of a mixture of strategy, passion, effort, motivation, technique, physical skill.
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:19.359
But football games are won by teamwork.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:21.440
It's not collections of people, right?
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:26.000
And I actually think a football team is a great analogy for a business, right?
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:32.640
Like, you know, your CEO and your leadership team develops a playbook.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:34.240
So do coaches.
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:39.359
You walk out of the locker room, hopefully everybody's sees eye to eye on the playbook.
00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:40.720
They might not all agree with it.
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:43.519
There might be, there's 20 coaches, they might not all agree with it.
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:47.920
When they walk out of that room, they coach that playbook, they coach their players, they're in alignment.
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:49.920
That's what a great leadership team should do.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:50.400
Yeah.
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.920
Now, it's not like there's not going to be any disagreements.
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:58.400
I mean, what you just mentioned, like, hey, there's a lot of passion on the field, right?
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:04.079
And, you know, football, maybe it's a little different than, you know, the average business.
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:07.279
But Travis Kelce cares.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:14.480
And one of the things that I love, look, I have to warn you, I'm a uh LA Chargers fan.
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:17.519
I've had Chargers season tickets for 22 years.
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:24.240
Um, but I am huge, a huge fan of what the Chiefs have done, their dynasty.
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:30.079
I hate to say it, but I've got a quote from Bill Belichick on the back of one of my race cars because we race cars too for fun.
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:30.720
I love it.
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:36.319
And um, you know, there's there's the most important thing is passion and engagement.
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:48.000
And like sometimes it's not the prettiest process, but like there's a lot of respect that underlies those players' relationship with Andy Reed.
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:59.839
And, you know, a lot of people didn't understand that one of the reasons that Andy Reid is so respected is because he's created an environment of psychological safety for his team where they can be honest with him.
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:00.240
Yep.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:02.319
And that's a big thing.
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:02.960
Yeah.
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:11.839
And sometimes safety is about honesty, and in the moment, you know, it's not always the pretty prettiest thing, but would it have been better if Travis Kelsey hadn't said anything?
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:15.759
Like, what did the Chiefs have won that game if he hadn't said anything or he hadn't had that moment?
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:17.680
Maybe, maybe not.
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:18.480
Yeah.
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:29.839
It's tough in those moments as leaders because um it takes probably experience, but then tools like happy to be able to really train this in us.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:41.839
And and so, even just keeping this example here with with Andy Reid, it's like his initial reaction wasn't to turn around and you know, tackle Travis and bite his head off and tell him, Don't ever embarrass me in front of the world.
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.119
You know, he basically allowed space, right?
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:56.160
Knowing Travis's profile, whatever that big, excited, passionate, outspoken, you know, dominant winner profile is that he has, he gave him space.
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:57.680
He let him do his thing.
00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:02.720
It even caught him a little off guard like physically, and he kind of just did his you know, walked over.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:12.880
But then later, he came up to him like a good leader, like a good dad, like a good, like, hey bro, don't ever do that again, but you know, go freaking win.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:22.640
Like, the reason why I called that is because you probably made a knucklehead move or whatever he said, you know, like they got back into alignment and he he drew that passion back in.
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:26.480
He let it go out of the lines a little bit, but then he he refocused it.
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:42.160
And so I find myself doing that as a leader myself, going, whether this person is introverted or extroverted, you know, that neither here nor there, but I'm I'm gonna modify or I'm gonna allow space, all right, autonomy even, for this person on my team or in my businesses to be able to maneuver and be truly them.
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:53.279
But if I'm being honest as a driver, as a big personality, I kind of have to like be aware, not kind of, I have to really be aware of me so that others can shine.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:54.799
Just like in that example.
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:56.880
Can you speak to that for a quick second?
00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:01.519
Yeah, I mean, that was a master class from Andy Reid on leadership.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:02.400
Yeah.
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:06.000
Um I've handled that.
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:16.239
If you if I go back to my first 10 years as a leader, I have made every mistake in the book, and I have not done what Andy Reid did.
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:25.760
I mean, I had one scenario in my early 20s where, you know, I got, you know, somebody that kind of Travis Kelsey'd me.
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:37.519
And instead of building space, you know, I lost my marbles and reacted inappropriately for a CEO, got really upset, had a confrontation.
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:53.760
And I remember, you know, just really thinking about that later, about the shame I had of being reactive in the moment and not um being the person I wanted to be.
00:34:54.159 --> 00:35:02.000
And but it takes time, like, like I guarantee you when Andy Reid was 25, like he didn't know how to handle that, right?
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:09.760
And then so it really, to your point, it's just about understanding like what tools do you have at your disposal.
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:18.880
And so, like, you know, I don't think you're gonna see happy on the football field anytime soon, but not like for me, I'm a type A personality.
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:20.400
I'm a D, a DI.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.880
So in Happy, we call that a catalyst because we kind of give everybody a persona.
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.199
But I've got a lot of fire.
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:37.119
And so, you know, knowing where to not react for someone like me is really important.
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:43.760
And it's funny you should bring up making space because, like, for type A personalities, that's like a really big thing.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:50.320
And I had a business coach in my early, probably like early 30s, which I mean, his name's John Delmatoff.
00:35:50.400 --> 00:36:00.239
And ultimately, like, he's the one that I owe, like, all of my passion for coaching came from John.
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:10.800
He helped me in my career and he gave me probably some of the best advice that I've ever gotten in my life, which was I kind of was saying to him, like, God, I'm like so frustrated sometimes.
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:17.119
Like something happens and I'm like so frustrated, and I just like can't, you know, I have a hard time like controlling my emotions.
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.199
And he's like, Well, you're gonna have to build a coping mechanism.
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:22.880
So, what could that be for you?
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:25.760
And I'm like trying to think about, and he goes, How about I'm gonna give you one?
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:30.719
He's like, You're gonna go for a walk, a 60-second walk around the block.
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:32.320
And he goes, I don't care where you are.
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:37.440
You're in the middle of a meeting with like your leadership team, and you're literally like, hey guys, I gotta go to the bathroom.
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:42.239
And no go to the bathroom, walk past the bathroom and just walk around the whole building and come back.
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:43.920
That changed my life, Chaz.
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:45.679
Like 60 seconds.
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:48.239
I made a lot of laps around the building that year.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:50.079
People are like, where the hell is James?
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:54.639
It's like the dudes walking around the building, they're walking me while they see me just walking around the building.
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:00.239
I still had the same emotion, but I like modified my response to it.
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:02.480
And I'm not always good at it.
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:06.880
Like, I'm still, I still love my moments, but that was really good advice.
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:12.639
Like, and so I think like that's what to your point, like Andy Reid did.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:16.719
He couldn't walk away from the sideline, but he built like that space for himself.
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:17.199
Yep.
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:21.119
And then he was able to come back and like be responsive.
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:21.440
Yeah.
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:30.719
And that's like what a real that's what real leadership is to me, is like not reacting in the way you would instinctually do it, but like thinking through like how am I gonna respond in a smart way.
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:31.199
Yeah.
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:33.440
I want to give a practical uh piece on this.
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:35.599
We talk a lot about family here on the show as well.
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:39.679
I think that family and even marriage plays a huge part into success in business.
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:47.679
And so I want to ask you a question on that here in a second, but to tie this in, um, even with my kiddos, I've got a four-year-old son who is fiery.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:50.880
Like, he's ready to go to war.
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:52.800
Like, he's been shooting a bow for about a year.
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:57.679
He's he I went on a helicopter hog hunt last week, and he's like, Dad, like I got my stuff, I'm ready.
00:37:57.760 --> 00:37:59.039
I'm like, Well, you're four.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:01.440
That's what we do with our four-year-olds.
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:03.519
We give them weapons when they when they're firing.
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:05.280
Yes, give them weapons.
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:13.519
He has he has many of them, uh, which has led me to has how to use them, not necessarily stay away from them, how to use them.
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:15.840
But um, regardless, I digress.
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.320
He he's this he's this individual who's gonna get angry or frustrated.
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:23.039
Maybe that's just him being four, and maybe all four-year-olds are like this.
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:24.559
My girls weren't quite like this.
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:27.679
But he knows to count to five.
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:33.760
Now, he doesn't always remember, and so when he's exploding, all Julie or I have to do go, whoa, whoa, whoa, Tatum.
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:37.519
And he goes, one, two, three, four, five.
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:46.639
And then he usually smiles and laughs and thinks how ridiculous that this scenario is that he even got upset about it, hugs his sister, and they go back to playing.
00:38:46.800 --> 00:39:03.280
And it's like, wow, if I had been not one, self-aware, two, aware of just the functionality or the emotional piece that was happening inside of him or my other children, how could I lead him to even be the best version of himself?
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.199
And this is really what we're talking about in organizations.
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:09.440
It's like, okay, as a leader, I'm going to A, take responsibility for being self-aware.
00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:14.400
And that means to study myself, to really learn the nuances of how I think or how I act, my emotions.
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:23.280
And then how can that interact best with my wife, my team, my kids, my team, my businesses, people on a podcast, whatever?
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:26.960
And I think we've given the listeners a lot of practical on that.
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:32.000
What do you think about just assessments, maybe even happy in marriage, in kids?
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:37.760
How does that help maybe a high-performing entrepreneur or CEO maybe balance things out a little bit?
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:44.480
I don't like the word balance, I like obsession, but how do how can I lean into someone like that with even a tool like yours?
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:47.840
Boy, you're you're queuing me up perfect, Chaz.
00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:49.119
You've done this before.
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:51.039
Just a couple times.
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:56.880
I'm gonna, I'm gonna do since I've done this six times in this podcast, I'm gonna do this for the seventh time.
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:58.880
I'm gonna turn the question around.
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:05.440
So I think what you're saying is like you've discovered the value of self-awareness.
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:12.800
And then the assessment is a tool that you use as part of your arsenal, and then that modifies your outcomes, right?
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:15.360
Your behaviors, even you're describing with your family, right?
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:21.280
Like if you didn't have that self-awareness, you probably wouldn't even be able to talk to your son about it, right?
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:22.159
Right.
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:39.599
So I think the first part of unlocking the key, whether it's your family, your marriage, your business, your organization, is I think some CEOs, and I think right now this is really important for a CEO or leader, because the world's changing.
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:40.800
The future of work's different.
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:43.119
Like workers expect more flexibility.
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:47.760
They want to work from, they don't all want to work from the office, they want to have a hybrid experience.
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:55.199
Um, you know, our Gen Z is looking for totally different things at work that like maybe you and I looked for.
00:40:55.440 --> 00:41:08.400
So I think the first thing is like, what is a CEO or leader or someone of family, like, you start thinking about it and they go, well, what could I get with a great marriage?
00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:10.000
Well, you get happiness.
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:17.039
What do I get if I have my children uh that can be adaptable and patient and listen?
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:20.960
Well, you get hopefully kids that'll be higher performers in life.
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:25.599
But there's one really thing that I think that I think, and it's a controversial thing.
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:34.719
But I think a lot of CEOs that don't get it or that haven't gotten it yet, say the following words.
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:45.920
Well, I know that, you know, having a good culture is important, or I think that, you know, having engaged people is, you know, that's important, but I have other priorities right now.
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:54.559
And it's usually followed by like, my board's asking me to grow profits by 20%, or I have a new product line, or like I have some other initiative.
00:41:54.719 --> 00:42:01.599
And it's this like this kind of, I call it, you think people like getting people better is like a vitamin.
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:02.960
It's like, well, that's just like good.
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:04.000
It's like a multivitamin.
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:05.920
Like, you know, I do I want my people engaged?
00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:08.639
Sure, but it's like, you know, it's like a bonus.
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:11.679
But I really need to have a company that performs.
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:12.559
Yeah.
00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:18.880
And that's ridiculous because the data, it's not even close.
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:31.199
The data shows that organ that companies that have engaged people and that have high levels of cult of organizational culture and happy employees, they are way more profitable.
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:36.400
They are way more productive, they have way more retention, they have better customer reviews.
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:41.119
But some people can't see that.
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:51.679
And so whether it's your family, your job, your work, you know, your career, your wife, your kids, you've got to start with like, what's your outcome?
00:42:52.480 --> 00:43:05.679
And you know, because how many times have you, and look, we've all done this as a parent, you know, your kid has done something that makes you super frustrated and you overreact.
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:06.400
Oh yeah.
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:13.519
Well, in the moment, that's maybe like you're so frustrated that you just like yell at your child.
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:16.880
You're not, I don't mean a mean way, but you're just like, you know, you're frustrated.
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:22.880
But then, you know, what are you teaching your family?
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:32.159
And I think of it the same way when a CEO says something like, Well, I know that having engaged employees is important, but like we have other priorities.
00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:37.519
And I think like, what bigger priority is than your humans that work for you every day?
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:46.800
Like, I don't care if you buy happy, but like if people aren't your priority, I guarantee you your organization is not going to perform well over time.
00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:47.679
Yeah.
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:54.719
We've found the same thing even with um, you know, clients, you know, and you're and you're dealing with, you know, really enterprise level.
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:59.840
We've got kind of a little bit of a smorgasbord of size companies inside of Gather the Kings mastermind.
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:01.519
But it's the same thing.
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:08.079
It's like when you when you when you can I don't know uh take the focus off of the thing that you think the focus is.
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:19.440
Like the result of what culture and happy people and joy and fulfillment and all these things in the workplace or inside the team are the things that you're actually after.
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:22.239
But but we do this in life, right?
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:41.039
Like I I want a a great marriage, but I'm not willing to date my wife, or I'm like I'm too busy for that, or whatever the scenario is, especially as entrepreneurs, because you know, I'm not organized or I don't time block, or some of the very basic things that help us just look at intentionality a little differently.
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:51.440
What I'm hearing you say is look, the thing that you actually want, if you would just take a different route, not only do other people get the benefit, you actually get what you want.
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:53.039
Am I hearing you right?
00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:55.119
Well, it's funny.
00:44:55.199 --> 00:45:02.159
I mean, I would say I spent at least half my life getting this wrong, Chaz, which is just something really simple.
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:17.280
You know, everybody, you mentioned the word like intentionality, and like that, like that's a beautiful word because if you don't live with intention, it's very hard to find a North Star every day.
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:23.119
Like you don't walk around and just it doesn't hit you in the face of like, oh, what's my intention for my life?
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.639
The most difficult exercise I ever went through.
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:29.760
Um, I mentioned that business coach John.
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:38.559
So I was going through kind of like a difficult part of my time of my life where I was kind of like confused about my direction of what I wanted to do for the next 10 or 15 years.
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:51.039
And I actually had also like an Aerovedic doctor, which we'll never have time for this, but I had like asked some people I really respect in my life, like to give me some sage advice about the rest of my life.
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:51.440
Yeah.
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:54.480
And I kind of got the same advice for both of them.
00:45:54.719 --> 00:46:04.719
Go take a blank pad of paper, walk into your backyard, sit down on a blanket, and write down, throw money out.
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:06.159
Forget money.
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:09.280
How do you want, what are the kind of outcomes you want for the rest of your life?
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:10.880
Like, what do you want to do with the rest of your life?
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:12.159
Think of the things that are important.
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:14.159
Make a list of everything that's important.
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:16.159
And I'm like, this is easy.
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:17.519
I can throw money out.
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:18.559
Money doesn't matter.
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:20.480
Like, my salary doesn't matter.
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:32.800
I'm gonna take this pad of paper and I'm gonna like, you know, this blank pad of paper, and I'm gonna like walk into my backyard with a pen and I'm like, this is easy, an hour, and I'm gonna like have everything written down.
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:36.960
Chaz, I sat back there with this damn pad of paper for three, four hours.
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:41.840
Dude, I had like, it was like a bad, you know, nightmare.
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:44.320
I'd like there was nothing left of the pad.
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:45.519
It was down to like four pages.
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:50.400
I had scrumpled up so many papers, they were all writing your life story.
00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:53.599
It's a lot of hard work, man, to do that.
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:56.239
And that's that intentionality that you're talking about.
00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:56.639
Yeah.
00:46:56.800 --> 00:47:01.840
If you don't have a North Star for yourself, how can you really live your life to its true fulfillment?
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:02.960
Like you can't.
00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:03.679
You can't.
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:06.000
But people, it's hard to do the work.
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:07.440
It's really hard.
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:10.239
And I and that's where happy came from.
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:12.719
I like literally wrote all this stuff down.
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:18.800
And and both of my parents were psychologists, which is explains a lot about my crazy, you know, brain.
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:25.440
But what I ultimately wrote down on that piece of paper is like, man, I want to do something big to help people work better together.
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:25.840
Yeah.
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:27.840
And like that, I just thought about it a lot.
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:29.920
I'm like, I gotta do this somehow.
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:32.719
And that's what eventually drove the next three years of my life.
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:41.920
But like, if I hadn't sat in that stupid chair in my backyard for like four hours, by the way, it wasn't just one day, it was like a week's worth of this over like three months.
00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:43.760
I've just felt like a total idiot.
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:46.480
Like, who can't plan their life?
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:48.480
Like, you can put anything you want.
00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:54.159
You want a speed boat and go to you know, Monaco, but when you can do anything, like really, it's hard.
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:57.440
I don't know if you've ever done anything like that, but it is a hard exercise.
00:47:57.760 --> 00:47:59.920
Yeah, well, I think that you're you're spot on.
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:01.679
First off, I have to say, yes, you're right.
00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:06.320
It the intentionality, you know, uh sitting down and and creating space.
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:22.639
Again, here we are, being intentional about time, really is what it is, and going, okay, well, if I'm calm in the moment and I'm not caught up with the passion or the money or the whatever it is that we're we're talking about, and I'm just thinking and creating space for that.
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.400
And what it what's processing.
00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:31.440
Because really what we're allowing in that moment, like truly, and you probably know this from your parents, but I'm I'm allowing a different part of my brain to operate, right?
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:42.400
I'm I'm allowing the deeper parts of my thoughts to to to come out, and it's not just the things that are happening underneath that I'm I'm unaware of, but I'm I'm being conscious of those things now.
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:48.320
And so the things that came out of for you, anybody can do, you know, they can they can take that exercise.
00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:54.719
And then the intentionality of going, how do I execute on that is obviously what you're doing, it's what I'm doing.
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:56.079
Gathering the Kings is that for me.
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:57.039
I have multiple companies.
00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:06.559
But Gathering the Kings is part of what that exercise produced in me, which is going, okay, what uh what's what is this all really about?
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:11.199
You know, I've got some skills, I've got some background, I've got some history, I've got some family.
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:13.119
But what what is this?
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.840
What what am I supposed to do on this ball of mud, right?
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:17.440
What's the purpose here?
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:26.239
And I think that we will eventually all come to that conclusion as long as there's created space, which is driven from intentionality.
00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:34.320
And now that I have that, now that you have that, now it's intentionality that carries us through to the completion of that definite chief aim, right?
00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:42.559
Um, because there's gonna have to be persistence and and a push-through and there's gonna be conflict and things that we're gonna have to overcome, and but we hold on to those moments that you create.
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:44.559
And it's like, whoa, this is powerful.
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:46.079
And I'm going to do it.
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.360
We are doing it.
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:53.119
There's no question on whether Happy is gonna be an amazing tool for thousands of thousands of employees.
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:55.519
You've already decided that, right?
00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:58.880
You know, I'll give you, you're right.
00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:02.719
And I don't tell a lot of people this, but I'm gonna share this with you.
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:10.559
So, you know, when I did that exercise in my backyard, what I ultimately came down to is like, so I'm 47.
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:13.119
So I this was probably four or five years ago.
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:20.800
So I was in my early 40s, and I realized that like money didn't really matter, which money is great.
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:22.800
Like, I mean, it's like a nice thing to have.
00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:28.480
And I'm not trying to say, like, I know you've talked a little about getting to the point where, you know, self-worth, I'm not saying self-worth isn't important.
00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:29.280
I do think it is.
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:37.119
I think having goals is important, but ultimately it's not like what the money brings, it's like the value of time and freedom.
00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:44.239
And let's like, but really, like, you know, I've spent all these years and I've got a nice house and I've got a nice view, and I live in wine country and Temecula.
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:47.519
And so it's like this, you know, it's like we live a nice life.
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:52.480
But time was the one thing left on that piece of paper.
00:50:52.800 --> 00:51:02.079
Like, I'm not gonna take the rest of the crap with me, but like the time, how the intentionality of like how I spend my time, that's like the one thing.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:08.400
Because I could get to 60 and have a hit product and make a bunch of money, but maybe I only have 20 years left to live, right?
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:08.719
Right.
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:12.639
So I write something on the top of my to-do list every day, Chaz.
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:16.239
And that is how many days left I have to live.
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:22.480
And I estimated my dad lived to 92, my mom lived to mid-80s.
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:27.519
So I split the middle and I I have 85, I put 85 years, so I'm 47.
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:32.320
I write down every day, I subtract one day from my likely life expectancy.
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:39.119
And there's nothing that has driven the value of time for me more than writing that number down.
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:50.239
Because if you really want to think about like how do you invest your time in your life, like that's the one thing is like that, you know, death does not escape any of us.
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:50.719
Yeah.
00:51:50.960 --> 00:52:00.239
And whether it's building gathering the kings or happy companies or anything else we do in life, like that's a that's the one commodity that like can't be bought.
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:01.039
Yeah.
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:11.920
So I think to your point of like really being able to like dial into like where you invest your time, like that's the biggest investment decision you make.
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:12.719
Right.
00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:25.360
And like for you, like this podcast and trying to build like gathering the kings for you, it sounds like it's part of your vision of how you want to be intentional about spending your time.
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:27.679
Yeah, like it's part of your vision for your life.
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:30.960
And like the fact that it takes a lot of discipline to do that.
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:33.440
It's beautiful that you're doing that, right?
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:36.559
Like the 20-year-old version of Chaz probably doesn't do that.
00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:37.840
Right, right.
00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:42.079
Yeah, um, it's interesting, and and we'll circle up with this.
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:49.599
Um, but I had a buddy, I don't know, maybe a year and a half, two years ago, he he tipped me off to a an app called Parent Q.
00:52:50.320 --> 00:53:02.320
Um, and Parent Q, you put in your kids' names and their age or their you know, their birth date, and and then boop, pops up their profile and it gives you the days left until they turn 18.
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:05.440
And it's just like Whoa.
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:07.840
And you see it counting down every day.
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:09.440
The days left until they're 18.
00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:18.079
And obviously 18, they're you know, adults and on and doing their own thing, and doesn't mean that their life is over, but it just means like they're under your care and time's moving.
00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:26.719
And so that same effect that you just described, um, I had that a couple years ago with that, but time, uh, purpose, intentionality.
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:30.239
What would you say to the guy, just kind of as a last little piece here?
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:34.480
What would you say to the guy or gal listening going like, I w I want that?
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:38.960
But like, I don't I don't even know where to start.
00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:47.840
James, like I hear you uh you know, working, uh learning myself and working inside of an environment using tools like happy and like all that's good.
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:49.199
I'm like check, check.
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:59.760
But for me personally, for you, James, how did you like get to that place where you're just like, okay, something's gotta give, I gotta do something different or next level?
00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:00.320
What was it?
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:00.960
What can they do?
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:01.920
What would you give to them?
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:03.280
It's simple.
00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:05.119
Figure out what you love.
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:16.239
I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about success is I think people put money ahead of love and doing what they're passionate about.
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:35.199
And my experience has been if you find the craft that you love, whatever you love, it could be snowboarding, it could be music, it could be whatever it is that just you wake up in the morning and like that's what you think about, you can make a career about just about anything.
00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:36.719
Some people love cleaning.
00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:40.000
And if you love cleaning, you might own a cleaning company.
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:45.519
Like you like organizing, you might be run a company that organize, organizes projects.
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:49.119
Um, if you love wine, you might go own a winery.
00:54:49.519 --> 00:55:00.320
Um I just think that tapping into this, into whatever motivates you and gets you up in the morning, that's what I think makes for a great life.
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:05.519
Like, there's a there's a phrase, and I've hated this for years.
00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:11.599
In any of my employees or anybody in my company's ever said this, I work for the weekend.
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:15.760
Or something like, you know, this is just a job to me.
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:18.800
When I get home, I'm, you know, such and such is my passion.
00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:20.960
And I'm like, what are you doing?
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:23.440
Like, do what you love every day.
00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:26.880
Like, if you love surfing, that's what you should do.
00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:29.440
Like, figure out, just do surfing every day.
00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:36.000
Like, go work in a surf shop, go build surfboards, go make wax, go write for a surfing magazine.
00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:42.400
Like, do the thing that do whatever that thing is, whatever like just gets you jacked up about life, just go do that.
00:55:42.639 --> 00:56:06.400
And it makes all the other stuff, like we talk about happy and self-awareness and all that, and all that stuff is great, but it's really hard to get motivated to like become self-aware and build better work relationships when you walk into work every day and you're like, well, this is just a job and I don't even like what I do, and this is just, I'm just like going through the motions because it's hard to get jacked up and excited about self-awareness and your coworkers when you just don't give an ass.
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:11.519
Like if you don't care, if it doesn't motivate you, all the rest of it doesn't even matter.
00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:17.760
But when you actually care and you're motivated every day to do something you love, everything else starts falling in place.
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:21.440
And now you're like, investing in my self-awareness matters.
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:24.000
Investing in my coworkers matters.
00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:28.719
It like investing in learning and education, all that stuff matters because you actually care about what you do.
00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:39.280
And I think a lot of people, I know this has nothing to do with happy, but I think a lot of people just forget how important it is to like find what they love, whatever their craft is.
00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:42.079
Like, remember, it comes back to time.
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:43.920
You and I talked about time.
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:45.360
Shouldn't it be good?
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:50.159
Shouldn't you want to invest your time in something that like speaks to you right here?
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:50.800
Yeah.
00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:51.440
Yeah.
00:56:51.679 --> 00:57:02.239
I think there's something unique, especially for entrepreneurs, but even for those that are uh working inside of a an organization, um, their their role in that uh can be exactly what you're talking about.
00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:05.679
It can be something that they love, and I love how you've uh given that direction.
00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:08.079
James, where can someone find Happy?
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:13.440
Uh they want to sign up, they want to use the assessment, they want they want the AI tool to tell me how to work with my boss.
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:15.519
Uh where can they find you?
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:17.440
Happycompanies.com.
00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:17.920
Love it.
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:19.440
We'll put that in the show notes as well.
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:26.000
And any other contact information that you want to give to us, it'll be right there in the show notes for you uh for you to be able to click on and find James.
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:28.159
You have been incredible here today.
00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:32.159
Um I cannot wait to see what Happy does and how it continues to revolutionize.
00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:37.840
Um, and for the assessment that we use, we need to get you attached, it sounds like, because it doesn't even sound like you're in competition.
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:39.760
It sounds like you're in an overlay.
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:44.320
We need to figure out how to get this working because they're right here in my backyard and we need to get it done.
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:45.840
So we're making an introduction.
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:47.360
James, I appreciate you being here.
00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:51.119
We have blessings to you, your family, your businesses, all the things that you're touching in 2024.
00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:51.840
Thanks for being here.
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:52.960
Thank you, Chaz.
00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:56.000
Thank you for listening to Gathering the Kings today.
00:57:56.079 --> 00:58:00.079
I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away.
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:10.880
More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself, doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:25.280
What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing over two or three hundred other very successful seven, eight, and nine-figure business owners, is that it's tough to do it alone.
00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:30.559
And so gathering the kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:38.639
In fact, we are putting together 1,000 kings, specifically who are grateful but not done.
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:44.000
We're intentionally assembling kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities.
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:55.280
And here's what we believe that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, that it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
00:58:55.440 --> 00:59:07.440
So if that relates and resonates with you, and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified, other, very successful business owners, I want you to go to gatheringtheKings.com.
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:14.719
I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1,000 kings.
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:16.000
Talk soon.