The Sixth Sense: Deep Thoughts About Ghosts, Plot Twists, and Taking the Wrong Lesson from Pop Culture

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Ghost stories are about the living.
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Ultimately, they always are.
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Because the living write them.
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Have you ever had something you love dismissed because it's just pop culture?
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What others might deem stupid shit, you know matters.
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You know it's worth talking and thinking about.
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And so do we.
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So come overthink with us as we delve into our deep thoughts about stupid shit.
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I'm Emily Guy Birkin, and you're listening to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, because pop culture is still culture.
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And shouldn't you know what's in your head?
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On today's episode, I will be sharing my deep thoughts about the 1999 M.
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Night Shyamalan film, The Sixth Sense, with my sister, Tracy Guy Decker, and with you.
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Let's dive in.
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Actually, before we dive in, I would like to ask you, listener, if you haven't already, to please quickly follow the podcast on Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your pods.
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It is a quick, simple, and easy and free way that you can help the pod.
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And we would be very grateful for it.
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Thank you very much.
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Now let's dive in.
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So, Tracy, I actually don't know if you've seen this movie.
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I have.
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Oh, okay.
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So, what's in your head about it?
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I see dead people.
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I I actually think I've seen it more than once because I have a lot in my head.
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I can remember the first time seeing it when the big reveal happens, like really being shocked, which is funny because on Rewatch, you're like, there are so many clues along the way, which is why I'm pretty sure I've seen it more than once.
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I mean, from that moment when the child says, I see dead people, but it was done so well and it was such an unexpected, like not what you expect it to be, that like I was really shocked.
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And I remember really enjoying a lot of the sort of details that then become clear in retrospect, like the fact that Bruce Wallace's character is always wearing the same set of clothing.
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Like it varies a little bit, but it's always like that sweatshirt and the bleed or whatever.
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And the there's like a color, like the door that he can't get in because his wife has moved something in front of it, but the doorknob is like a color, right?
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It's red.
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And like the color red sort of indicates things.
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And I remember like when we learn, it's because she says something like, Why did you leave me?
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And he's like, I'm right here.
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Most of what's in my head is around Bruce Willis's character and him kind of coming to the realization of his circumstance and like and that, as opposed to like the child whose name I don't eat, I don't remember either of their names.
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But that's what's in my head is really Willis's story or Bruce Willis's character story and sort of like the way that I thought about what would that be like to not realize that your status has changed so significantly and to try to be interacting.
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Like I got kind of stuck in the empathy of that when I watched it.
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So that's what's in my head about the sixth sense.
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I mean, there are other like little like snapshots, vignettes, like the bicycle accident from early in the movie and other things, but like late in the movie.
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Oh, is it?
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Where like his mom's like, I hope everyone's okay, and he's like, they're not.
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So there are other little like snapshots like that, but that's like that's the core story that's in my head.
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But tell me, M, why are we talking about the sixth sense today?
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So what's at stake for you with this movie?
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So I really, really loved this movie.
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I unironically, just now before we hit record, called it a masterpiece, and it is.
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And I had warm fuzzies about M.
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Night Shyamalan for longer than he deserved it after this.
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And as we'll get to, I'll talk about how I think he took the wrong lesson from this movie.
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I think he's a very talented director, but all anybody talked about was the twist with this movie, and that is not what he should have learned from it.
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Because this is a remarkable film that also has a twist.
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It's not a remarkable film because of the twist, but the twist is a gut punch in a positive way on top of a film that without the twist still would have been a remarkable film.
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So I also I love ghost stories.
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I have always loved ghost stories.
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And so that's part of it as well.
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And I love the trope of ghosts unable to move on until they have finished their final business.
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So that's part of why I like this story.
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And then the idea that there's this second chance for someone who failed one little boy and can save another little boy is another thing that really, really pulls at my heartstrings.
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The central relationship between the little boy, the character's name is Cole Sear, and his mother, Lynn, is also another one that I just truly felt in 1999 when I was 20 seeing it.
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And then watching it again yesterday.
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I have not seen it since becoming a parent, but watching it yesterday, I cry every time I see this film, but I really cried yesterday seeing it now that I am a mother of children who are older than Cole now, but feeling that kind of maternal protectiveness and worry for a vulnerable little boy.
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It really that this is a meaningful film to me in so many ways.
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That's why I wanted to talk about it.
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And then also like Shyamalan, I hate that he has become a joke.
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He's become a punchline at this point because he has a great deal of talent that I just feel like he he has kind of, I don't want to say squandered, but he just keeps trying to recreate something when he could have done so much more because he took the wrong lesson.
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So that's another aspect of it.
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Like there, there's so much more he could have done.
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And he has done some very interesting stuff, even with trying to recreate the twist ending with this.
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I still enjoy his films, even as I'm like, oh, come on, come on.
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I still enjoy his technical skill.
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It bothers me that this is his the peak of his career because I think he could have done so much more.
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That's why we're talking about it.
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So let me give you some postcards from the destination.
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As I said, we're gonna talk about the why Shyamalan took the wrong lesson from this movie and what lesson he should have taken.
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I'm gonna talk about parenthood and what good parenthood looks like and how I feel like it's a little subversive what Shyamalan does with Tony Collette's character and holding her up as an exemplar of a good mother.
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I want to talk about the absolutely phenomenal acting, especially from Haley Joel Osmond, who was about nine or 10 years old at the time.
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I want to talk about whose story it is and part of the reason how that helps the twist work.
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I want to talk about childhood and the importance of believing children.
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I want to talk about the visual metaphors that you were talking about with the red ghost stories and parentification, which I think kind of go hand in hand.
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And I want to talk about second chances.
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So those are some things that I'm going to be mentioning.
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Also gonna talk a little bit about Philadelphia.
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I forgot to mention that before we hit record.
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This is Shyamalan is from uh Pennsylvania, and he is a consistently likes to film in his home state, and there is like a bit of a love letter to where he is from in every film.
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And there's something very setting a ghost story in Philadelphia is fascinating.
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And those are some things that I want to get to.
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I am just going to briefly mention this does not pass Beckdell.
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There are two named female characters, Lynn Sear, played by Tony Collette, who is Haley Joel Osmond's mother.
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And then there is Anna Crow, who is Bruce Willis's wife, played by Olivia Williams.
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They do not ever meet each other or interact.
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Basic story.
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At the very beginning, we see Anna and Malcolm Crow.
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Malcolm Crow is Bruce Willis's character celebrating.
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They're a little drunk.
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He has just won an award from the city of Philadelphia.
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He is a child psychologist who he has received this award for his help, his work with very vulnerable children.
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And he is being honored for how much he has helped children in the city.
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That same night, a young man breaks into his home and has stripped down to just his underwear as in the bathroom, the ensuite bathroom in their kind of old Philadelphia home and says, You failed me.
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And he says, Do you know why you're afraid when you're alone?
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I do.
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He says, You don't even recognize your own patient.
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And it takes Malcolm a moment and he recognizes him as Vincent Gray.
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Vincent says, You said you would help me and you didn't.
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You see that there is a white streak in his hair, even though he is a young man.
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He's like in his mid-twenties, maybe, but he he's like an aged mid-20s.
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He then shoots Malcolm and then turns the gun on himself.
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Camera pans and it says, the next fall.
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And Malcolm is waiting outside an apartment.
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He is taking notes on a boy named Cole Seer, who also has a white patch in the back of his hair.
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And Cole is leaving his apartment and then like runs away.
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And Malcolm has to hurry to catch him.
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And he catches up with him in a church where Cole has a bunch of little like army figures as well as some religious figures.
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And he is mumbling to himself in Latin.
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And Malcolm comes up to him and says, I'm sorry I missed our appointments.
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I was hoping that we could talk here.
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And so basically introduces himself.
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I'm Dr.
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Crow.
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I'm hoping to help you.
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I know your parents recently got divorced, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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And Cole is very closed off and says, You can't help me.
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We see several things happen.
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Cole is at home.
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His mom is in the kitchen with him.
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She leaves, comes back, and all of the cabinets are open in a way that is way too quick for it to have for him to have opened cabinets and then sit back sat back down.
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His mom is looking, is doing laundry and is looking at a wall of pictures of Cole, and there's like a little flash of light in every single one from the time he was a baby.
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And so it's clear that he has been haunted since babyhood.
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Cole starts opening up to Dr.
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Crow, tells him that everyone thinks he's a freak.
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Don't look at me like that, because people look at him like he's a freak.
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He has a really bad day at school where the teacher who mentions that he went to school at the same building when he was a kid asks, Do you know what this building was used for in the 1800s or 1700s?
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And Cole knows, he says they used to hang people here.
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And the teacher's like, No, that's not correct.
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It was a courthouse.
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They passed laws here.
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And Cole starts arguing with him.
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It was, you know, the lawmakers who hanged people.
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And the teacher kind of looks at him a little ironically, and that sets Cole off, who starts calling the teacher stuttering Stanley, because that's what the other kids called him, and the ghosts have told him that.
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And the teacher loses his temper and calls him a freak.
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And Dr.
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Crow comes back, and the movie does a good job of showing him to be a pretty good child psychiatrist, psychologist.
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I don't remember which he's supposed to be.
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I think actually, I think they do make it clear that he's a psychologist because he's not able to prescribe by drawing him out and, you know, making him feel comfortable, a silly magic trick and stuff like that, right after that incident.
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Cole is at a kid's birthday party.
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It's one where the parents are staying, and Lynn is there too.
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She does not fit in.
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She is definitely lower income than the rest of the kids.
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He appears that Cole goes to a private school.
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And so he is going up these stairs.
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He follows a balloon up, and there is a ghost in this like room where the door is open, but he can hear someone saying, like, let me out.
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And two other boys force him in there and lock him in.
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Lynn goes up and hears, like, hears him screaming to get out, and she can't figure out how to open the door.
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They finally get him out, and he is like passed out from fright.
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And so she takes him to the hospital.
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And that's where Cole finally tells Dr.
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Crow, that scene you remember, I see dead people.
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They don't know they're dead.
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They walk around.
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They can't see each other.
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They just appear and they, and Dr.
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Crow at that point thinks, like, I can't help him.
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He might be schizophrenic, and that's why I think he's not a psychiatrist, because he can't prescribe.
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He then, Dr.
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Crow then goes back and listens to a recording of one of his sessions with Vincent, where he had to leave in the middle of it to take a phone call, and he turns the volume all the way up and he hears.
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So Vincent was supposed to be alone in the middle of it, and he hears a ghost speaking.
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And so he realizes that Cole is telling the truth.
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There's something about cold, right?
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When the ghosts are there, it's cold.
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Yes.
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Meanwhile, during all of this, since the break-in, Malcolm and his wife just aren't talking to each other.
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He arrives late to their anniversary dinner.
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When he comes home, she has made dinner for herself.
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He sees at one point that she is now taking an antidepressants that he didn't know about.
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And uh she seems to be drifting into an affair with someone who works at the antique shop she owns.
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Dr.
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Crow comes back to Cole and suggests maybe the ghosts come to you because you can speak to them and they need your help.
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And so there is a little girl ghost who comes to him and basically she wants him to share a video that she made with her father.
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She was ill for two years and so, and like in bed for two years.
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And so her only like outlet was she had like puppet shows that she would put on for herself and she had like a video camera.
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And so she accidentally caught her mother dosing her with like pine salt because her mother had uh Munchhausen by proxy.
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And so she has video footage of this, and so he's able to give that to the father.
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Uh, and the mother is now trying to dose the younger daughter to keep that Munchausen by proxy high going.
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So he's able to help that ghost.
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We also then see that Cole is cast by Stanley, the teacher, in a play.
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He's King Arthur, or not King Arthur, but he's Wart in Once and Future King.
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And before the play, there's a woman helping him with his makeup, and then we see that she's a ghost.
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And Stanley comes and is like, Oh, who are you talking to?
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He's like, Oh, I was just practicing my lines.
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So Cole has learned how to accept that these scary people don't mean him harm.
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And so Malcolm is at the play and tells him that he did a great job and says we won't be seeing each other anymore.
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And Malcolm has told Cole that he's sad because he can't talk to his wife.
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And Cole suggests to him, why don't you talk to her while she's asleep?
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And so then she will have to listen and she won't even know.
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And Malcolm tells Cole, I think you need to talk to someone a little closer to home.
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Tell your mother what's going on.
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So the next scene we see Cole and his mother in the car.
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That's the one, the thing that you remember about there's a car a bike accident.
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Bike accident.
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And so Cole says, Mom, I'm ready to communicate with you now.
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I want to tell you my secrets.
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Someone was hurt, was a lady.
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She died.
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And mom's like cranning her neck, like, can you see?
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Where is she?
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And he says, standing right next to my window.
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And like Tony Collette isn't a phenomenal actor.
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She says, Cole, you're scaring me.
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And he says, They scare me sometimes too.
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A conversation.
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She's clearly like, you can see the gears turning, like, who do I need to talk to?
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Like, oh my God, do I need to take him to a specialist?
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They had previously had a conversation about the Bumblebee pendant that had been his grandmother's because his grandmother had passed away and how it keeps disappearing.
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And he says, Grandma says hi.
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And she's really upset at him for saying that.
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He's like, she's like, that's wrong.
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He says, she's sorry that she keeps taking the Bumblebee pendant.
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She just really likes it and she wants you to know that she saw you dance.
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And he tells a story that he couldn't have known.
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That the grandmother and Lynn had had a big fight right before Lynn's dance recital when she was a little girl.
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And so the grandmother went to the dance recital without telling Lynn and waited and was in the back so that Lynn couldn't see her, but watched and describes how she danced and she was so beautiful and just did this wonderful, amazing job.
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And then the thing that makes me cry is he says, Grandma says that you went to the place where she's buried and asked her a question, and her answer is every day.
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And then Lynn starts really sobbing.
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And he says, What was the question?
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And she says, I asked her, Do I make you proud?
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And then they hug.
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:09.599
And that's why this movie would be remarkable even without the next 10 minutes.
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:18.559
Which is where Malcolm goes to talk to Anna, who is sleeping in front of their wedding video.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:23.039
And that's when you learn that Malcolm has been dead the entire time.
00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:25.039
She says, Why did you leave me?
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.559
That's why he realizes.
00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:27.359
Yeah.
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:28.880
And he says, I didn't.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:29.440
I'm right here.
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.799
And then she drops his wedding ring because she's holding on to it.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:40.880
And the film has been has done such a good job and followed the rules.
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:43.440
Like there there was no trickery.
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:56.240
Like Shyamalan did an excellent job of like Willis never never opens a door, never moves furniture, never interacts with another character other than Cole.
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:59.279
He follows the rules.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:19:59.839
Right.
00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.680
That's why I say when in my memory, like on rewatch, there were clues.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:38.789
But it's just not a thing that you would the one thing that I, upon watching, like when I watched it the first time that I was like, oh, that's a little odd.
00:20:39.029 --> 00:20:50.629
But it was far enough along that I was willing to go with it was when they go to the little girl whose mother had much thousand by proxy, they take the bus.
00:20:51.190 --> 00:20:53.669
And I was like, Why didn't he drive him?
00:20:53.909 --> 00:20:55.430
Why didn't Malcolm drive them?
00:20:55.589 --> 00:21:02.869
I thought that was a little odd, but at the same time, I was just like, I it was far enough along in the movie, okay.
00:21:03.589 --> 00:21:04.629
Sure, you know.
00:21:04.869 --> 00:21:07.990
Whereas if it had been earlier in the movie, I would have been like, why didn't he drive?
00:21:08.149 --> 00:21:11.190
But I was, I like, I was invested enough, I didn't care.
00:21:11.750 --> 00:21:23.109
And then that gives once Malcolm has accepted that, he is able to tell Anna, I need you to know, I needed to fix something.
00:21:23.190 --> 00:21:28.470
I needed to, you know, I failed Vincent, I needed to save Cole or help Cole.
00:21:29.109 --> 00:21:34.869
And I needed you to know because on the night of the awards, she said, you've put everything second, including me.
00:21:35.430 --> 00:21:38.789
And he he I like, I need you to know you were never second.
00:21:39.349 --> 00:21:42.230
I loved what I did, but you were never second.
00:21:42.629 --> 00:21:45.269
When you wake up tomorrow, everything will be different.
00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:48.950
It's just this beautiful emotional ending.
00:21:49.750 --> 00:21:56.789
So I want to start with like Shyamalan taking the wrong lesson from this movie.
00:21:57.190 --> 00:22:02.789
That like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, is like so satisfying.
00:22:03.190 --> 00:22:05.109
So satisfying, yeah.
00:22:05.669 --> 00:22:07.589
But that's not why this movie is good.
00:22:07.829 --> 00:22:08.470
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:09.349 --> 00:22:16.549
You said it really you said it really, really well in the postcard that it's a really great movie that has a twist.
00:22:16.629 --> 00:22:18.389
It's not great because of the twist.
00:22:18.629 --> 00:22:19.269
Yeah.
00:22:19.750 --> 00:22:26.069
This movie is good because Cole says what
00:22:26.869 --> 00:22:27.750
the question, mom.
00:22:28.549 --> 00:22:29.109
Yeah.
00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:30.069
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:30.470 --> 00:22:32.309
That's where the movie is is excellent.
00:22:32.629 --> 00:22:33.669
That's where the heart is.
00:22:33.909 --> 00:22:35.190
That's where the heart is.
00:22:37.029 --> 00:22:42.789
And like, and that gets to one of the things I said is I want to talk about whose story this is.
00:22:43.509 --> 00:22:45.990
This movie is not Malcolm Crow's movie.
00:22:46.230 --> 00:22:48.069
It's Colsear's movie.
00:22:48.309 --> 00:22:50.789
Now it begins and ends with Malcolm Crow.
00:22:51.430 --> 00:22:53.029
But it's not his movie.
00:22:53.190 --> 00:22:58.549
And I think I feel like Shyamalan forgets that.
00:22:58.789 --> 00:23:01.269
Now Bruce Willis is a big star.
00:23:02.069 --> 00:23:04.549
And like that's what I remember.
00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:06.230
I remember Willis's story.
00:23:06.470 --> 00:23:08.389
Like I don't remember any of Cole's story.
00:23:08.549 --> 00:23:09.190
I didn't remember.
00:23:09.269 --> 00:23:15.909
I mean once you sort of started telling me I did remember the conversation in the car but I didn't remember the was Grandma proud of me.
00:23:16.389 --> 00:23:22.230
For one thing ghost stories are about the living right ultimately.
00:23:22.389 --> 00:23:35.990
They always are because the living write them they are about loss and even you know Bruce Willis's story in this is about loss.
00:23:36.950 --> 00:23:51.430
And so focusing on that twist ending is like ignoring the loss and like really trying to go for this gotcha that's just cheap.
00:23:51.829 --> 00:23:53.509
And this was not a cheap one.
00:23:53.669 --> 00:23:54.869
Like it was not cheap.
00:23:55.029 --> 00:23:56.149
It earned it.
00:23:57.430 --> 00:24:00.549
And like you're you're never going to be able to like you that's lightning in a bottle.
00:24:00.629 --> 00:24:01.829
You can't catch it twice.
00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:12.950
And part of what made this movie so remarkable is like you have ultimately four but three primary actors.
00:24:13.109 --> 00:24:17.990
So Olivia Williams did an amazing job as well because you kind of hate her the first time you you're watching it.
00:24:18.069 --> 00:24:19.909
You're like why are you ignoring your husband?
00:24:20.389 --> 00:24:26.549
And then as you watch it a second time you're like oh my God she is grieving.
00:24:28.950 --> 00:24:41.589
But Tony Collette, Hayley Joel Osmond and Bruce Willis are all doing amazing heavy lifting and especially Osmond who was a child.
00:24:43.909 --> 00:24:45.990
I don't know how they got the performance from him.
00:24:46.149 --> 00:24:47.109
I honestly don't know.
00:24:47.269 --> 00:24:51.349
Now he had been he had been an actor since he was like three or four years old.
00:24:52.389 --> 00:24:53.990
He seems to have turned out okay.
00:24:54.309 --> 00:25:05.669
He's an adult now I and seems to be fine but all three of them like you forget you're watching characters.
00:25:05.829 --> 00:25:26.789
They feel like real people and one of the things that Roger Ebert said contemporaneously was like he was so impressed with Osmet but he said I also want to point out how good Bruce Willis is because acting against a child is also a very difficult skill.
00:25:27.829 --> 00:25:32.549
And he does it in a way that feels very natural.
00:25:33.990 --> 00:25:37.190
So like that is also part of what is remarkable about this.
00:25:37.349 --> 00:25:41.829
And I believe Osmond and Colette were both nominated for Academy Awards.
00:25:42.149 --> 00:25:44.869
Film was nominated for six and didn't win a single one.
00:25:45.190 --> 00:26:03.990
As for Tony Colette, and this is because Shyamalan wrote the screenplay and directed this I think there's something kind of subversive about how she is written and how Colette plays her as such an excellent mother because she's clearly lower income.
00:26:04.470 --> 00:26:13.669
When we first see her she is getting ready for work in the morning she's wearing a bra and she's getting a shirt out of the dryer and it is very low cut.
00:26:13.750 --> 00:26:15.990
It's like a low-cut button up shirt.
00:26:16.549 --> 00:26:28.069
And especially in the late 90s I feel like we would normally be invited to judge especially a mom for wearing that.
00:26:28.470 --> 00:26:39.029
And maybe we're we were being invited I don't know but over and over and over again we are shown that she is excellent.
00:26:39.269 --> 00:26:48.069
She is an excellent mother like repeatedly the way that she reassures Cole, he'll ask Are you very mad?
00:26:48.230 --> 00:26:51.990
And she'll say look at my face I'm not very mad.
00:26:52.230 --> 00:27:05.509
Like that's how she she reassures him the one time we see her get angry, they're having dinner and she says she was cleaning up in his room and she found her mother's bumblebee pendant in in his dresser and she knows she didn't move it.
00:27:05.750 --> 00:27:28.149
And so she says is there something you want to tell me and he says no and you can see he's very stressed and she says I won't get angry if you tell me you took it so do you want to tell me and he says no and then she reminds him like look I I just don't want it to get broken.
00:27:28.309 --> 00:27:29.589
You know how much I love that.
00:27:29.829 --> 00:27:31.509
You know why I'd be so sad.
00:27:31.669 --> 00:27:47.750
And he's like yes because you miss grandma so much and she says yes and so she says tell me did you take the bumblebee pendant and he says no and so she gets really she gets like mom angry.
00:27:47.829 --> 00:27:48.710
She's like I'm tired.
00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:57.909
I'm tired of my body I'm tired in my heart I'm tired in my head and she's like one more time I promise I won't get angry if you tell me the truth.
00:27:58.309 --> 00:27:59.190
Did you take it?
00:27:59.349 --> 00:28:04.149
And he says no and then she like bangs her hands on the table and she says I think you've had enough dinner.
00:28:04.389 --> 00:28:18.869
You need to go to your room there is a scary ghost in his room a few minutes a little bit later and he goes to her and says if you're not very mad, can I sleep in your in your bed tonight?
00:28:19.109 --> 00:28:22.710
And she does the look at my face I'm not very mad.
00:28:22.869 --> 00:28:32.549
And so that is the only time we see her kind of lose her temper and it is very understandable from her point of view.
00:28:32.789 --> 00:28:33.190
Mm-hmm.
00:28:33.990 --> 00:28:38.549
And it's also very understandable from his point of view because he's really trying hard not to lie.
00:28:38.789 --> 00:28:48.389
Mm-hmm what I so appreciate is it's hard to like it's hard to remember because it's been 27 years since this movie came out.
00:28:48.789 --> 00:28:52.230
Tony Collette is a conventionally attractive white woman.
00:28:52.629 --> 00:28:53.190
Right.
00:28:53.829 --> 00:29:08.309
But I do feel like and we do see like when she's interacting with the very upper middle class mothers at the party she's saying like I really appreciate you inviting Cole.
00:29:08.389 --> 00:29:11.269
He, you know, he doesn't get invited to a lot of parties last one was at a Chuck E.
00:29:11.349 --> 00:29:14.149
Cheese the other mother goes like Chucky who?
00:29:14.789 --> 00:29:23.109
And so you really get the impression that she does not fit in and she mentioned something about having two jobs and that sort of thing.
00:29:23.430 --> 00:29:33.269
There's definitely like this class stratification and she has an accent like a working class accent that Dr.
00:29:33.430 --> 00:29:34.710
Crow does not.
00:29:36.230 --> 00:29:47.909
When she takes Cole to the hospital she has to talk to a social worker because Cole has bruises and scratches from the ghosts and from trying to get away from the ghosts.
00:29:49.750 --> 00:29:56.789
Part of this is necessary for storytelling to so that it's clear that Cole is not in danger from his mother.
00:29:57.029 --> 00:30:02.470
The story wouldn't work if we had any fear that he was in danger from his mother, if Malcolm had any fear of that.
00:30:03.430 --> 00:30:26.149
But I also I feel like there is something a little bit subversive in showing just how incredible a mother she is when she brings Cole home from the hospital she sees scratches through his sweater on his body that are from the ghost but she immediately assumes it's from the bullies who pushed him into the the room.
00:30:26.389 --> 00:30:26.629
Right.
00:30:26.789 --> 00:30:39.909
And so she calls the mother the host of the party and like tears her a new one I mean like she calls and it's supposed to be late at night she calls she's like hi this is Lynn Sear, Cole's mom.
00:30:40.149 --> 00:30:41.829
Yeah I want to talk to you about your boy.
00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:46.789
I want to talk to you about him and his friends keeping their goddamn hands off my kid.
00:30:47.349 --> 00:30:59.909
Like she goes, you know, Mama Bear and like all of it is just it's very, very impressive especially considering how uncomfortable it was clear she felt in that very expensive house.
00:31:01.750 --> 00:31:14.389
I just kind of want to give kudos for that for showing like this woman who is really out of her element with her kid because she's like, I know something's wrong.
00:31:14.470 --> 00:31:27.430
I don't know how to fix it, but I'm loving my kid as best I can and giving him the best I can possibly give him and then going to bat for him at every turn trying to be the best mother she can be.
00:31:27.669 --> 00:31:33.829
And then the fact that she is a lower income mother I feel like was kind of subversive.
00:31:34.069 --> 00:31:36.950
Tony Collette did an amazing job.
00:31:37.109 --> 00:31:55.190
Like I really do think she deserved more kudos like deserved an odd from the Academy for her role you believe at every step her fierce protective love and joy even there are a couple moments where you see how much she enjoys being Cole's mom.
00:31:55.430 --> 00:32:22.950
I would like to circle back to whose story this is and the wrong takeaway because something that has been bouncing around in my head since you said that is the conversations that we have had about horror movies, actually and like Beetlejuice and Nightmare on Elm Street, where the most charismatic character who ends up on t-shirts and stuff is like the wrong one the way we've talked about it, right?
00:32:23.109 --> 00:32:28.950
Like the actual the way you just said it was that you said this is Cole's movie.
00:32:29.029 --> 00:32:30.309
This is not Malcolm's movie.
00:32:30.389 --> 00:32:31.750
That's the way you just said it.
00:32:31.990 --> 00:32:36.549
And I think that you might say the same about Nightmare on Elm Street.
00:32:36.629 --> 00:32:37.750
It's Nancy's movie.
00:32:37.909 --> 00:32:39.349
It's not Freddie's movie.
00:32:39.589 --> 00:32:46.629
And yet Freddie's the one who ends up sort of owning the franchise and on people's shirts and like getting quoted and getting remembered.
00:32:46.869 --> 00:33:08.309
And I think something similar is happening here for maybe similar reasons because one of the things neuroscientifically I think I'm not a neuroscientist but I've been reading I'm reading a book right now by a guy the what's his name Cole Keyes he's the positive psychology guy.
00:33:08.470 --> 00:33:21.909
And one of the things that I just read last night was that evolutionarily dopamine is around so that we kind of remember the thing that brought the pleasure like it helps like lock in the memories.
00:33:22.789 --> 00:33:41.349
I imagine that the other core emotions evolutionarily it's similar and so fear like when we have those strong fear response like our brain is like oh remember this because we might need it later like evolutionarily we need it to remember what the saber-toothed tiger looks like.
00:33:41.509 --> 00:33:44.789
And so that's why we remember Freddie because he scared us.
00:33:46.230 --> 00:34:01.430
And so that like emotion of the twist around Malcolm and that kind of like the shock and the awe and the like you know the gears turning then also becomes the moment of memory which gets imprinted.
00:34:01.589 --> 00:34:07.269
And that's why that's what I remember even though I believe you this is not Malcolm's movie.
00:34:07.430 --> 00:34:21.430
But the way my brain is wired, the way everyone's brain is wired so that we survive as a species means that that high emotion moment of like I don't know what I don't know how to name it because it's not quite fear.
00:34:21.670 --> 00:34:26.389
It's like surprise and fear and and like realization.
00:34:26.789 --> 00:34:35.269
But that moment of some dopamine hit actually it probably is that satisfaction sears that twist into our brains.
00:34:35.430 --> 00:34:42.470
And since that's what the audience was talking about and that's what everybody was like damn M night that was cool.
00:34:42.710 --> 00:34:47.910
It's like no wonder that he took the wrong lesson because that's what he got a response for.
00:34:49.269 --> 00:34:59.269
So I just like I wanted to like just circle back to that to bring back other conversations we have had and put them all into a bigger conversation about sort of the way brains work.
00:34:59.750 --> 00:35:03.110
Which doesn't mean that that's the best part of the story.
00:35:03.350 --> 00:35:12.789
It just means that's the part that got the biggest like emotional response in the moment or the kind at least the kind of emotional response that is tied to memory making.
00:35:13.590 --> 00:35:13.910
Yeah.
00:35:14.310 --> 00:35:22.310
Specifically so I'm sorry I interrupted your thought about parenthood but it sounded like you were ready to move on to the next thing.
00:35:22.630 --> 00:35:23.990
So that's why I wanted to circle back.
00:35:24.390 --> 00:35:33.269
That just in terms of storytelling part of the reason why I say it's Cole's movie and not Malcolm's is because Cole has a character arc.
00:35:33.430 --> 00:35:35.350
He changes over the course of the film.
00:35:35.750 --> 00:35:37.910
Malcolm it makes him the protagonist.
00:35:38.230 --> 00:35:42.070
Yeah yeah he does have a realization.
00:35:42.470 --> 00:35:50.870
He's a realization and he rectifies a wrong but he doesn't grow or change.
00:35:51.110 --> 00:35:56.789
He doesn't grow or change who he is yeah I think that fundamentally is what it makes a protagonist.
00:35:57.030 --> 00:36:04.230
Yeah exactly agreed I want to talk about second chances that's kind of what the movie's about throughout.
00:36:04.470 --> 00:36:10.070
So Cole is Malcolm's second chance at helping a haunted child.
00:36:10.310 --> 00:36:21.590
Mm-hmm I was thinking about and this is something that bothered me m from the beginning the teacher who yells at Cole and calls him a freak.
00:36:21.910 --> 00:36:31.670
Stanley Stanley first time I saw it I wondered what the heck happened to that teacher because that's not okay.
00:36:31.910 --> 00:36:33.030
Cole is nine.
00:36:33.350 --> 00:36:55.510
If a dine year old can trigger you probably shouldn't be teaching nine year olds so like now obviously like he triggered something very deep in Stanley but still and I always did appreciate like coming back to where Cole says to the teacher thank you for casting me in this play and they have a conversation about it.
00:36:55.670 --> 00:37:02.950
The teacher is kind to him and the woman who is helping Cole with his makeup when she turns her face is burned.
00:37:03.110 --> 00:37:11.110
The teacher says to him Stanley says to him like oh did you know that there was a fire in this theater when I was a student at this school and Cole says yes I know.
00:37:11.350 --> 00:37:16.150
One of the things that I kind of appreciate is that both Stanley and Cole are getting a second chance here.
00:37:16.950 --> 00:37:30.150
There's a like Cole is be is giving grace to his teacher it seems like his teacher must have been through something awful considering the fact that fire must have been traumatizing.
00:37:30.310 --> 00:37:30.550
Yeah.
00:37:30.950 --> 00:37:57.910
Obviously Malcolm's getting the second chance Cole is giving his mother second chance to understand her mother because clearly there was some tension between them, you know, just based on the little that we hear we see Anna Malcolm's wife having like a kind of kind of a second chance romance with the man who works for her.
00:37:58.550 --> 00:38:05.269
That's something that I think is interesting and part of why it's so important to recognize that this is Cole's story.
00:38:06.070 --> 00:38:29.030
He embodies the ability to try again and he embodies the like kind of childlike wonder and innocence even though he's so frightened like he is cut off cynical and scared and he doesn't have friends.
00:38:29.190 --> 00:38:46.070
He's isolated he's anxious and yet he is still open to joy and wonder because he is there is something still welcoming in him to to goodness.
00:38:46.470 --> 00:38:49.830
And that's again part of what makes this movie remarkable.
00:38:50.310 --> 00:38:58.150
I want to stick with something you just said about Cole embodying the second chance I think that's literal, right?
00:38:58.310 --> 00:39:01.190
Because he's helping ghosts move on.
00:39:02.630 --> 00:39:22.150
And so there's there's a really interesting like circular nature to this sort of second chance that goes with all of those other things that I I think the thesis is that one needs that openness in order to have a second chance but also to help others we need help for that second chance.
00:39:22.310 --> 00:39:29.590
Like all of those things are baked into the metaphor of Cole as an embodied second chance which is really interesting.
00:39:29.750 --> 00:39:44.550
And and the fact that he sees all dead people right like he has to be open to sort of helping who he comes upon in order to be that embodiment of a second chance.
00:39:44.710 --> 00:39:58.310
There it requires an openness and a grace and a curiosity and I don't there's something like as I'm saying it that I'm seeing that's that's really, really powerful I think when you think about and of course you would make it a child.
00:39:58.870 --> 00:40:00.470
He has to be a child.
00:40:00.710 --> 00:40:01.110
Yes.
00:40:01.590 --> 00:40:05.190
For the metaphor within the story to work.
00:40:05.350 --> 00:40:05.750
Mm-hmm.
00:40:06.550 --> 00:40:10.150
That gets to like childhood and believing children.
00:40:10.550 --> 00:40:10.870
Yeah.
00:40:11.110 --> 00:40:24.470
Because the reason why Malcolm failed Vincent and why Cole never spoke to his mother is because people don't believe children.
00:40:24.789 --> 00:40:25.269
Yeah.
00:40:26.310 --> 00:40:28.470
We're talking about a ghost story here.
00:40:29.030 --> 00:40:34.789
But this is true of real world problems as well.
00:40:35.110 --> 00:40:35.750
Yeah.
00:40:35.990 --> 00:40:36.630
Yeah.
00:40:36.950 --> 00:40:53.350
I don't know where to put that I don't know where to put that I can remember many years ago when like we were kids, we were watching some movie that was yeah like I don't even remember where a kid made contact with aliens or something and tried to tell their parents and and the parents of course didn't believe them.
00:40:53.430 --> 00:41:10.230
And I remember mom turning to me going like I wonder if I believe you the sort of thing where like I I have even in like this excellent parent-child relationship between Lynn and Cole he tries to tell her the truth about the Bumblebee pendant.
00:41:10.470 --> 00:41:18.310
He says to her sometimes people think they lose things and they don't it just gets moved and she doesn't she doesn't believe him.
00:41:19.110 --> 00:41:32.310
And you know I have kids and there are times when I know they're lying to me but also if you're looking at his body language he is so upset.
00:41:33.350 --> 00:41:59.670
So it it's I'm not sure where I'm going with this but our culture, our society, our medical system, our judicial system, our educational system fails kids every single day because we don't believe them, because it's easier not to or because we think that that can't possibly be happening or anything like that.
00:41:59.830 --> 00:42:09.830
And I feel like stopping and taking a minute and saying like what if this were true is important and proceeding as if it were.
00:42:10.150 --> 00:42:10.550
Yeah.
00:42:10.789 --> 00:42:12.950
I think that's the important bit, right?
00:42:13.350 --> 00:42:20.390
Because even when Coles tells Malcolm, I see dead people and they don't know they're dead and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:42:20.710 --> 00:42:27.670
Like there's a degree to which he's, oh shit, I gotta get him as like a special as maybe he has schizophrenia or whatever.
00:42:27.830 --> 00:42:29.510
Maybe he's delusional.
00:42:29.910 --> 00:42:35.590
But I think even if you think that it may be delusions, like obviously the kid believes it.
00:42:35.990 --> 00:42:37.990
Maybe that's where he failed, Vincent, right?
00:42:38.070 --> 00:42:46.470
Like I think that that's like I think about the times like my daughter was at sleepaway camp and she had a sore throat and the counselor was like, you're fine, let's go play basketball.
00:42:46.630 --> 00:42:47.750
She had strep throat.
00:42:48.390 --> 00:42:58.550
Like the inconvenience, but like one can kind of I feel like there is an in-between ground say like, okay, tell me more.
00:42:59.030 --> 00:43:01.830
And like I believe that you believe this.
00:43:02.390 --> 00:43:04.950
I'm not exactly sure what's happening, but like let's go with it.
00:43:05.110 --> 00:43:06.470
Okay, your throat hurts.
00:43:06.630 --> 00:43:08.630
Like tell me more.
00:43:08.950 --> 00:43:27.750
You know, like I feel like there are in-between I also totally get why Lynn was angry when the body language of him being so uncomfortable and scared like one could interpret that as because he just got caught stealing the bumblebee pendant and not and lying about it.
00:43:28.070 --> 00:43:41.910
Well and that actually that gets to one other thing that I a big part of the reason why Cole tells Malcolm he doesn't talk to his mother because she doesn't look at him like everyone else does like he's a freak and he doesn't want her to.
00:43:42.070 --> 00:43:47.510
But you also get the impression he kind of wants to protect her too.
00:43:47.750 --> 00:44:01.750
Mm-hmm so he tells the story of he drew a picture once at school where they could draw a picture of whatever they wanted and he drew a picture of a man putting a screwdriver in the throat of another man with blood.
00:44:02.470 --> 00:44:04.230
And they had a meeting.
00:44:04.390 --> 00:44:04.630
Yeah.
00:44:04.870 --> 00:44:07.110
They had a meeting his mom cried.
00:44:07.350 --> 00:44:09.269
So he doesn't draw pictures like that anymore.
00:44:09.430 --> 00:44:12.470
He draws pictures of people smiling, dogs running rainbows.
00:44:12.630 --> 00:44:15.750
They don't have meetings when you draw pictures of rainbows.
00:44:16.390 --> 00:44:22.870
So he is working to protect his mom because his mom works so hard to protect him.
00:44:23.190 --> 00:44:29.110
He knows how difficult Their life is for his mom.
00:44:30.150 --> 00:44:41.269
So that's also a part of it as well, is he knows it's convenient for his mom to not believe him because of how difficult their life is.
00:44:41.590 --> 00:44:42.070
Mm-hmm.
00:44:43.430 --> 00:44:46.630
You named parentification as a thing that you wanted to talk about.
00:44:46.789 --> 00:44:48.870
This feels like I feel like we're getting into that.
00:44:49.190 --> 00:44:57.190
I I noticed it too earlier when you were like, you named that Cole gave teacher Stanley some grace at the end with the play.
00:44:57.350 --> 00:45:01.110
That like, is that really on the nine-year-old to give grace?
00:45:01.590 --> 00:45:02.550
It should be.
00:45:02.789 --> 00:45:03.110
Yeah.
00:45:03.269 --> 00:45:03.590
Yeah.
00:45:04.070 --> 00:45:06.870
And that's the thing, like, I say parentification.
00:45:06.950 --> 00:45:11.030
Now the thing is it's not like Lynn's an excellent mother.
00:45:11.350 --> 00:45:13.670
She's not doing this to him intentionally.
00:45:14.070 --> 00:45:16.470
I'm not sure that ever is intentional.
00:45:16.710 --> 00:45:19.350
Oh, well, I think some parentification is, yes.
00:45:19.590 --> 00:45:19.910
Okay.
00:45:20.470 --> 00:45:23.830
But he ends up taking on a protective role.
00:45:24.070 --> 00:45:24.390
Right.
00:45:24.710 --> 00:45:31.110
Because he's had to grow up because of what he knows about dead people.
00:45:31.910 --> 00:45:36.070
Well, his condition, if you will, causes adultification.
00:45:36.310 --> 00:45:36.950
Yes.
00:45:37.430 --> 00:45:39.910
Does it cause parentification though?
00:45:40.230 --> 00:45:42.070
Because I they're two different things.
00:45:42.390 --> 00:45:42.789
Yeah.
00:45:43.510 --> 00:45:48.150
Well, I think he takes care of his mom in ways that that she doesn't even realize.
00:45:48.470 --> 00:45:49.190
She doesn't realize.
00:45:49.510 --> 00:45:49.670
Yeah.
00:45:50.310 --> 00:45:52.789
He has learned to protect himself.
00:45:53.830 --> 00:45:59.590
So like by drawing rainbows and things like that, that is partially protecting him, but also protecting his mother.
00:45:59.990 --> 00:46:09.990
And then I think by working with Malcolm, he is also learning to protect other people that also kind of protects himself.
00:46:10.230 --> 00:46:12.710
So and that's what's happening with the teacher Stanley.
00:46:13.030 --> 00:46:19.269
But also like being open to having a lovely conversation with the woman who's helping him with his makeup.
00:46:20.470 --> 00:46:40.550
Is he is seeing like the connections between these people and can be a friend and see like see Stanley as not just his adult teacher, but also the kid who went through something traumatic and see him as a peer almost.
00:46:40.950 --> 00:46:41.510
Yeah.
00:46:41.670 --> 00:46:42.070
Yeah.
00:46:42.390 --> 00:46:45.990
Because the woman would have seen, would have known him as a small boy, right?
00:46:46.070 --> 00:46:47.590
That's the adultification.
00:46:47.830 --> 00:46:49.590
That's an interesting way to frame it.
00:46:49.670 --> 00:46:50.390
I like that.
00:46:50.710 --> 00:46:52.789
We're running a little short on time.
00:46:53.030 --> 00:46:56.470
So there was a number of postcards that you gave that we haven't quite gotten to.
00:46:56.630 --> 00:46:58.789
Do you want to talk about the visual metaphors?
00:46:58.950 --> 00:47:02.789
Because I feel like that's a thing that you tend to really like in terms of like the craft.
00:47:03.350 --> 00:47:10.710
One thing that Shyamalan did very intentionally was you talked about the cold and then the color red.
00:47:11.190 --> 00:47:16.789
He used red intentionally to represent like ghostly moments.
00:47:17.190 --> 00:47:23.110
So there was the red of the doorknob into the door into the basement, which was where Malcolm worked.
00:47:23.350 --> 00:47:28.630
There was the red balloon that Cole followed up to where that room was.
00:47:28.789 --> 00:47:31.269
He was wearing a red sweater that day.
00:47:31.670 --> 00:47:36.630
The antidepressants were red that Anna was taking.
00:47:37.190 --> 00:47:49.830
There's a tent that Cole has made for himself in his room that he has filled with like religious icons in the kind of hope that that would keep the ghosts out, that is made out of a red bed sheet.
00:47:50.070 --> 00:47:53.190
Bed sheet, or it's thicker than a bed sheet, it's like velvet.
00:47:53.510 --> 00:47:57.269
The girl who finds him there like destroys it.
00:47:57.510 --> 00:48:03.430
The use of that color red is just very visually striking and helpful.
00:48:03.670 --> 00:48:09.190
Another one that is like spoken, not shown, is coal.
00:48:10.150 --> 00:48:12.950
It's C-O-L-E, but Cole is black.
00:48:13.830 --> 00:48:16.150
A crow is black.
00:48:16.470 --> 00:48:19.430
And Vincent Gray was the patient.
00:48:20.150 --> 00:48:22.070
So which I think is interesting.
00:48:22.150 --> 00:48:29.510
I've always hated the name Cole Seer because I find it difficult to put your mouth around, like it's a stupid name, but he's a seer.
00:48:29.910 --> 00:48:30.390
Mm-hmm.
00:48:30.789 --> 00:48:35.590
And so, like there I think that that was very much intentional in the name.
00:48:35.670 --> 00:48:35.910
Yes.
00:48:36.310 --> 00:48:36.550
Yeah.
00:48:36.710 --> 00:48:37.030
Cool.
00:48:37.590 --> 00:48:38.710
Well, we are out of time.
00:48:38.789 --> 00:48:42.230
So let me quickly reflect back to you some of the things that we talked about.
00:48:42.390 --> 00:48:47.110
We started with the fact that Shyamalan took the wrong lesson from this movie.
00:48:47.269 --> 00:48:49.190
We spent quite a bit of time talking about that.
00:48:49.350 --> 00:48:53.670
That the way you put it was this is an excellent movie that also has a twist.
00:48:53.910 --> 00:48:55.910
It wasn't excellent because of the twist.
00:48:55.990 --> 00:49:00.310
And it seems from the rest of his career that Shyamalan thought it was excellent because of the twist.
00:49:00.470 --> 00:49:03.430
And so he was always trying to recapture that lightning in a bottle.
00:49:03.670 --> 00:49:20.870
I wondered if maybe part of the reason he took the wrong lesson is because of the way our brains make memories around strong emotions, in particular, that sort of satisfaction of that twist and that got audiences talking, or the satisfaction of being afraid, like Nightmare on Elm Street.
00:49:20.950 --> 00:49:21.990
I brought that in.
00:49:22.230 --> 00:49:48.150
You spent some time talking about Lynn as an excellent mother and some of the choices around her demography that maybe are subversive to put this excellent mother in the body of a lower income woman who like wears revealing clothing, who has a working class accent, and that those choices felt a bit subversive to you, which I thought was really interesting.
00:49:48.310 --> 00:49:56.310
We spent some time talking about whose story this is, whether it's Cole's story, the child, or Malcolm's story, the adult ghost.
00:49:56.630 --> 00:49:59.990
And you convinced me that it is in fact Cole's story.
00:50:00.150 --> 00:50:03.269
He is the protagonist because he's the one who grows and changes.
00:50:03.590 --> 00:50:10.950
Malcolm does realize some things, but he fundamentally is the same person at the end as he was at the beginning.
00:50:11.430 --> 00:50:22.870
We spent time talking about childhood and adultification versus parentification and believing children and the fact that that ultimately is why Malcolm failed.
00:50:32.710 --> 00:50:37.190
We talked some about that, like within this movie, but also a little bit broader.
00:50:37.510 --> 00:50:46.230
You spent some time talking about ghost stories and the fact that ghost stories are about the living because the living tell them and that they're often about second chances.
00:50:46.310 --> 00:51:00.390
And this movie very much is about second chances, and that Cole himself personifies, embodies a second chance, not just for himself or for Malcolm or for that little girl who he helped save her sister.
00:51:00.550 --> 00:51:10.710
And part of that embodiment is he has to be a child because it requires an openness and a wonder and a curiosity that we often lose as adults.
00:51:11.030 --> 00:51:17.350
We did not get to talk much about Philadelphia or about gender in this film.
00:51:17.590 --> 00:51:24.150
We did talk a lot about great acting, including from Osmond, who was only nine or 10 at the time.
00:51:24.390 --> 00:51:36.710
I am sure that in the shit we forgot to say about the Sixth Sense, which is available to patrons over on our Patreon, that you will go into more detail about the things we didn't get to and probably some other stuff if I know my sister.
00:51:36.950 --> 00:51:39.190
I'm rushing because we're out of time.
00:51:39.750 --> 00:51:45.030
Next week, Emily, I'm going to bring you my deep thoughts about E.T.
00:51:45.510 --> 00:51:49.030
So we get to talk about more child actors.
00:51:49.350 --> 00:51:50.390
Awesome.
00:51:52.070 --> 00:51:56.470
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00:51:56.710 --> 00:52:02.070
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00:52:04.710 --> 00:52:06.230
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00:52:06.470 --> 00:52:09.190
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00:52:09.350 --> 00:52:12.470
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00:52:14.550 --> 00:52:15.750
Thanks for listening.
00:52:15.990 --> 00:52:21.110
Our theme music is Professor Umlaut by Kevin McLeod from Incompitech.com.
00:52:21.350 --> 00:52:23.590
Find full music credits in the show notes.
00:52:23.830 --> 00:52:27.110
Thank you to Resonate Recordings for editing today's episode.
00:52:27.350 --> 00:52:31.750
Until next time, remember pop culture is still culture.
00:52:31.910 --> 00:52:33.990
And shouldn't you know what's in your head?