Resident Evil (2002): Capitalism, AI & Foucault | Deconstructing Horror

Ryan Does: On this episode, we are digging into the 2002 film Resident Evil. And we're gonna be talking about technology, artificial intelligence, and what spirituality has to say on that subject, how tech can go wrong. A topic that you know we're not dealing with as a society at all right now. But for this conversation, I have my good friend Josh Patterson joining us on the eve of. Of the brand new Resident Evil film that is going to be coming out very, very soon. But for today's conversation, we're going way back, going way back over 20 years. Introduce yourself to people, let them know who you are, what you find yourself doing in the world, really what lens you're going to be bringing to Resident Evil. My name's Josh Patterson. I am an independent theologian. I work for the World Institute for Science, Religion, and Culture as the director of creative content. Which is a lot of fun. I get to work with Ilya Delio, who's like one of my favorite living theologians. and so, you know, that's a a real fun and a pleasure. I'm a a a podcaster, I do a show called Rethinking Faith. So that that's a bit about me. Let's see, Resident Evil. It first came in the form of the video games. A friend came over and brought Resident Evil four on Playstation Two, Ryan. I remember that game being a lot of fun. You're like agent and I you're trying to like rescue the president's daughter. It takes place in rural Spain. The zombie creatures who are infected with the virus, they have axes and scythes. Then it gets more advanced. They have like chainsaws. Very creepy. Super fun games, but very difficult. Ammo's always very limited. You can shoot them a million times and they don't die. You get hit once and you're like hooked. So tells my introduction to them. I'm not really a video game player at all, really Mario Kart is the thing that I go the most hard with at and occasionally like your your odd Pokemon game. So let just tell me, as someone who's played these games, the the games that this franchise is based on, what is what what did you enjoy about them? What was the appeal of them? Was it the difficulty? Was it the horror setting? Where where did it really land with you? All the like zombie type stuff, which I I just enjoy. And I do enjoy like shooter games I think as a kid, like the horror part was fun because it's like you're playing this game and like there's jump scares and stuff, right? So you can like get afraid when you're like the same way that people like horror movies. and then like, I mean, it does get a little bit ridiculous when you have these like big creatures that are bosses and that kind of stuff. I tend to like things being grounded a bit more in reality. You know, those realistic zombie viruses. Exactly, right. None of that fake shit. Like I don't like Well, I'm glad that I'm glad that at least one of us has that lens to come at this movie with because I was watching this for the first time in preparation for the 2026 movie. So I am really dipping my toe into this franchise for the first time on any level. And I I gotta say, I really did enjoy this movie. It was a non-stop action horror kind of extravaganza. And I'm gonna give people a little bit of The stats for this film, and then we are going to jump into our discussion with Josh about the themes that are found in the original Resident Evil film. It was directed and written by Paul W.S. Anderson. This is based off the Capcom game from 1996. The original game came out. This movie came out in the spring of 2002. It stars Mila Djokovic. Michelle Rodriguez and James Purefoy, kind of like a really interesting, cool early 2000s cast. This was made for $33 million and it grossed a little bit over a hundred million. And here is Broadstrokes the story of Resident Evil 2002. Inside of a corporate lab overrun by a zombie virus, Alice fights against zombies and the Red Queen AI, who violently locks down the facility. And is trying to keep our heroes from the antivirus that can cure and and take down this horde that is around them. This all happens within the umbrella corporation, which becomes a really the primary antagonist for this entire franchise. The film ends with Alice standing alone in an abandoned city. Josh, you have done a lot of thought and time in process theology, mysticism, really trying to take a buffet approach to different viewpoints on spirituality. And I want to throw a few different aspects of those at Resident Evil 2002. How did you internalize the zombification process in in this film? Hmm. Yeah, that's a good question. I just kind of think about how we've can turned into consumers and Commodified. We sit around and and doom scroll on our phones and we're completely manipulated by algorithms. And it really is this zombification of the person and it's auto exploitative. Like we do it to ourselves. It takes intentionality to step back from the kind of fast paced society that we live in, right? Where we've seen this shift in modernity where the goal for everything is efficiency. Faster, better, quicker. And so again, that that stepping back out of that and recognizing that in life sometimes things need to go slow. Is like stepping out of that zombification process, if you will. And that's you know, that's the kind of space that the mystics create is one of of silence and slowing down and not being efficient. That's an interesting way to look at it. Umbrella acts as this all powerful god that Treats humans as commodities. We're talking about, you know, the consumer mindset. How does this mirror real world idols and where we serve them today and then the system actually kind of just gradually destroys us? You were talking about how the the mindlessness keeps us kind of trapped in a cycle. Technology is used to slowly and slowly kind of erode the things in us that make us human. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You said all powerful God. And this is kind of why I hate the book of Job, because God in the book of Job, humans are commodities. They're pawns in God's like stupid game with Satan. And that's like obnoxious larger corporations play the same way. It turns workers into commodities. Now you're gonna get me in trouble because I'm gonna start sounding like Karl Marx. We need to seize the means of production. It values the bottom line, it it values efficiency, it values money. Over the actual people to where then the people just become cogs in a machine serving this greater kind of purpose. And so I think we see this in like I mean, I guess basically I just critiqued capitalism. So there you go. You see that though, the the bottom line being the important thing, really the the end goal of the institution is more important than the individuals. You see that in the opening scene of this movie, where the people are trapped. All the way down, levels deep, and then the company pretty much cuts them off from escaping. The institution of the umbrella corporation doesn't actually go out of its way to help save them. That they they're sending people down there for a different reason. The this is where I think the Red Queen AI comes in. And this is an important facet of the film where it uses violent coercion to get. our heroes, Alice and her group, to do things the way they would want them to do to maintain control. How how does this film in a way critique our modern obsession with technology and the coercive power that tech has over us that we allow it to have in our lives? This is interesting because it it reminds me of this philosopher named Foucault had this thing called the Panopticon, basically like a society totally being watched and surveilled, right? The surveillance society so that like people don't do bad shit or and there's, you know, a lot of the time when we talk about technology and all, that's the route we go. It's this promise of technology for total security and total safety. But somebody is expendable in that accounting. Young Bianchul Han is saying that We've actually moved out of surveillance. He's saying we don't need that anymore. That's a distraction that we've internalized this auto exploitation where we exploit ourselves, but it looks like freedom. That's his critique of the algorithm of audience capture when it comes to social media influencers. We do it to ourselves. We we imprison ourselves and we don't even necessarily need the Red Queen in society anymore. Yeah. Because We're already doing it to ourselves. One more thing. I think it's interesting that they depicted the queen as a little girl because oftentimes when these tech things are pitched to us, from one perspective, you know, from those who tend to benefit from it, again to use more Marxist language, they're always going to present it as this beautiful and great thing that's going to be efficient and make it happy for everybody and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. When then in reality, the other side of the coin is who are the marginalized people that this impacts? Because There's gonna be an expendable group of people with technology. That's just how it functions, right? And so the the I think the picture of her as a little child is kind of a critique on that whole, you know, kind of how we see it actually play out in in the real world. And what you said there, there was a moment where you were talking about the comparison of coercion to now it's full-on cooperation. The Red Queen uses. its ability to unlock certain doors, to get around problems that our heroes can't really think their way through. It offers them a fast lane to the problem, but then it uses the hero's necessity for its power to be like, well, if you don't kill Michelle Rodriguez's character is infected at this point in the film. And the Red Queen says, if you don't kill her, Kill her now and I will unlock the door. But then Alice finds a way around that problem. She she continues to think because she's in this hope against hope kind of situation, she's between a rock and a hard place. And she's like, if I'm between a rock and a hard place, I'll just climb up. You know, she she decides like I'm not gonna I don't want to kill Rain. And this AI is saying the only thing that will save them is killing Rain. She's like, well. What if I just found a way, another way through the door? And then luckily, I believe it's Kaplan saves them at the at the last minute, but she does attempt a third option, a third way through this issue. I love the breakdown of this movie showing us a coercion towards a certain goal. But now what you were saying is we don't even have to be coerced anymore. We will willingly go into a situation that we're not even being coerced into. I think that is one of those really damning, like in probably the grand arc of time, it's like a it's a damning thing for us as a society. Is there anything else along that coerciveness piece of the conversation that that we need to add in? well I mean, I just you know, so as a process thinker, like the whole critique of coercion is at kind of At the heart of process thought in many ways, right? So for listeners who don't know, process philosophy, or Whitehead calls it his philosophy of organism, was kind of taken and like brought into the kind of theological space because Whitehead wasn't a theologian, he was a philosopher. And when that language is applied to God, you no longer have this omnipotent, all powerful, you know, other, you know, omni being in the sky, as it were. Or rather you have a non coercive energy force of love that lures creation forward into what's good and beautiful and true. And so I I always enjoy the critique of coercive power for that reason. Because I think it's a better picture of who God is, or at least it's a picture of a God that's actually worthy of worship. Because I think coercion, I mean I'm Curious what think about this. Like coerci coercive power isn't really all that powerful. Like holding a gun to someone's head and making them do something, I don't think is is is true power. Being able to convince or persuade with not in non coercive means, so not with threats of violence, not you know, anything like that, but rather by invitation into something more good and beautiful and true, I feel like that is a more powerful image of not just God, but of of people in general. Like, you know, what do you think? Could not agree with you more. The example that I like to use with people just in not necessarily in a in a academic or a theological sense, the the just every day working, because I'm a blue collar worker. I am I am what I am. And here's what I tell people if a guy, let's be honest, if a guy tells you he's the boss, he's probably not the real boss. If they have to keep on telling you they're in charge, they're probably not the like tippy top in-charge person. Because there are because people that are confident in their ability to lead others, to have influence in other people's lives that is healthy and good, they don't have to keep telling you that they're in charge. They don't have to keep reminding you and I think maybe the biggest mistake I made as a young person was believing that the just the loudest person in the room that said they were in charge. Well, they're actually in charge. They're not. They may have the highest job title in the room. They may have the they may have the title, but you will find something behind that bravado, that confidence, that arrogance, that well, whatever you want to call it. You'll find something behind it. And that is what's actually going. And and I think the Red Queen is a good example of this, trying to coerce people into a certain into a certain rat trap. And Alice is like, Hold on, I can think around this. You're not actually in charge because we can find another way. And I think for people in their just everyday life, beware. Be wary of the person that keeps trying to tell you they're in charge because they probably aren't. Yep. I agree, dude. oftentimes people will critique like the culture of the day, right? Like, it's just how the culture is, blah, blah, blah. And propaganda points this out in his book, Terraform, and also in some of his music. He's like, no, we are the culture. Yeah. We have the ability. So, like, you know, we the people have the ability to bring about change. Like, and this is where I think things like, you know, grassroots broad-based community organizing becomes so powerful, building these alternative forms of power to, you know, speak against the powers or or push back against the powers that be. Yeah. That's good. That's good. I love I love again, I love that this conversation, I was like, it'll be about tech. Well actually it's about coercion and how coercion works on communities. I love that. Towards the end of the movie, at the at the end of the movie, Alice Steps out into Raccoon City as this ruined place. She does not know what's ahead of her, but she grabs that shotgun out of the police car and she's prepared for another fight. And we know that Mila Djokovic would reprise this role several times. She would face all different sorts of crises. But at the end of this, this hope against hope, this coercion that she has rejected, she's not giving up. What do you take from her example as the main character who's gonna stand up to this corporation What do you take from her example as the final girl, but also really the example of rejecting coercion? Yeah, well, I mean, I love that you used the phrase hope against hope. I have the best words, Josh. Yeah, the best words, all the best words. Yeah, so the with the hope against hope thing, it's it's interesting to me because, you know, in for a variety of perspectives, I'm gonna jump around a bit, so forgive me. But one thing that comes to mind first is, you know, Nietzsche actually critiques hope. Nietzsche says that hope is the emo is the evil of all evils. Because Nietzsche sees hope as as passive, right? Okay. He sees hope as as something that the oppressed people groups have where they just like, I why hope and pray that God comes and saves us one day. And it's just this kind of he sees hope as this passive thing that just kind of lets society be what society is. And so one way to kind of, you know, critique that is this hope against hope, but it's a hope that is that is active. Maybe, you know, instead of saying we need hope. Will lean on Tilek and say, No, we need courage. The courage to keep going is that hope against hope. Nahasi Coates. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tony Hasi. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he talks about how so oftentimes we think that like winning is the goal, right? Like if we're gonna stand up for something and we don't win, then it's pointless. And I think this hope against hope is no, that's not the case. Like Standing up against systems of oppression is the right thing to do because it is the right thing to do. Even if we don't get the result that we want at the end, we continue to press on. Yeah. And that kind of that's kind of the hope against hope. This kind of yeah. And I mean, within the the kind of the radical theology perspective, you know, you look at the the cross, right? If there was a moment for God to be coercive and use power, it would be like Jesus on the cross. Right. But from a radical theology perspective, you can read that and say, Look, dude. Nobody's coming to save us. Jesus dies. That's what happens. God dies. No one came to save him. And nothing, and so if we apply that to this kind of hope against hope, bit nothing's gonna happen unless we do something about it. Like from a Christian perspective, again, like you are the body of Christ. If you want God to act in the world, then like get up off your ass and go actualize the divine. Make God work in the world. And so that is that hope against hope. That is the the courage to keep going, to keep pressing against these these systems. And so that's kind of, you know, some of the thoughts I have. I love I love that. I I really do love that that we're shown an example in the film of someone who stands up against a coercive system who is going to do the right thing in fighting against this this antagonist, this antagonistic system. She's going to keep fighting because fighting is what Is required in that moment, and she's not guaranteed to win. She ends this movie by herself. She's she's standing up against an unknown enemy in an unknown place for an unknown duration of time. And she's going to stand in the gap between this evil entity and basic humanity. Like, I love Alice's example here, and I can't wait to myself watch, you know, the other films, Apocalypse, Extinction. those films. I did want to end this conversation with a invitation for people to check out Theology Beer Camp because we're talking about apocalyptic situations and how we respond to a world that is collapsing, that collapses even if it's our personal world, if it's our political world, if our if it's our immediate like relationships, things that are constantly revealing themselves. So Josh, before we land the plane on Resident Evil two thousand two and people go out and see the brand new movie, are there any other final thoughts, any caps to things we started talking about that you wanna bring to a close? Yeah, before before we end. Yeah, you made kind of like an offhanded comment about like, it's interesting where this conversation went, because I I thought it was gonna go a different direction. And so, I mean, I do have a few thoughts about just some of the AI and tech stuff. And these, you know, are Half-formed opinions, so forgive me. But one thing that I'd want to say about AI is like, unfortunately, it's not going anywhere. Like AI is here to stay and it's it's going to be implemented. The technology that these companies have is already so far more advanced than we even think or know or understand, right? These people are living in like 2050. It's crazy. So that's a thing. And I think that can be really good or it can be really bad, right? You have people kind of on both sides of the debate here. and I've been deeply shaped by Elia. I've had many conversations with her about AI. And she she thinks that it's not an AI problem, it's a people problem. That like it's us people who have the AI and how we use it. And so we need to like use it appropriately, basically, is her bit. But what scares me, like when I lean into the scary side of things, is actually something that I don't know if he's been on this, but I know I think you've talked to him before, but our friend Michael Morelli. Yes. Michael, Michael and I have talked about AI and the Matrix. Cool. Hell yeah. So his book, Theology, Ethics, and Technology and the works of Jacques Arlal and Paul Varillo, if that's how I'm saying their names right, he points out that like basically whenever we get new technology, we use it to hurt people. And he talks about war as like war is the primary driver of technological advancement. And he traces that throughout history. You know, and like these two writers are. or these two thinkers were like writing like during like right the the the Holocaust, the use of the atom bomb. So these are the the kind of places these people are are, you know, doing their their critiques out of. And that's that's what scares me about AI stuff is the some of the propensity to harm other people, to get more efficient at killing and, you know, these kind of things. So Morelli's book is great. I'd recommend it. Michael's a friend and he is been he's been on a few different episodes here, and I know that that book we'll see, I'll see if I can get a link from him where people can check that out. because that book also sounds like something I might want to get my hands on as well. Josh is very integral in the organization and the promotion of Theology Beer Camp, this event that we've both been going to for a while. Josh, can you just kind of tell people what Theology Beer Camp is and how they can still get in on taking part in Theology Beer Camp? Yeah, sure. yeah, that's it's as you said, Ryan, it's like I mean, something we've been participating in a long time. It's something that means a whole lot to me. And, you know, I find myself as the camp director this year, which is is really cool because, you know, I get to create this meaningful space of belonging and and friendship and and laughter and nerdiness where people can come in and hang out. And unfortunately, or fortunately, depending how you look on it, we actually sold out, dude, of of in-person tickets. That's never happened before. But You know, speaking of technology here, we do have an online option for people. like which is also really good. Like if you want to kind of dip your toe into see what Beer Camp is about without actually having to show up in a church, because I understand that that's, you know, cannot be comfortable for many people. Yeah. Check out the online tickets where so everything that happens on the main stage will be live streamed. So there'll be eight different sessions. So all four of the keynote sessions will be there. And then there will be four other main stage sessions that happen. And then also there is a brand new stage at Beer Camp this year. So traditionally, we have had three stages. Now we have four. And this fourth stage is the we call we're calling it the TBCFM 26 live podcaster stage. And there will be eight live podcasts recorded at camp that also will be live streamed. So there's 16 different, you know. sessions for you to kind of get in on if you want to do the online option and you'll have access to the recordings afterwards. So that's all that's kind of a cool a cool way to dip their toe in. Yeah. I'll put a link in this episode description for that and people can check that out. So just remember everybody that no matter what's what's going on in your world, no matter what apocalypses you feel like you are facing, no matter what kind of anxieties you feel around artificial intelligence, I have a lot of My own anxieties as well. Just because the horrors persist, just remember, so can we.