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Speaker 1: It's time for a big Blue kickoff line.
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Speaker 2: Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it because.
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Speaker 1: You're on giants dot com.
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Speaker 2: You know what I saw, New York Giant crack.
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Speaker 1: And the Giants Mobile.
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Speaker 3: What tuck down?
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Speaker 4: We all were out tampling the part.
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Speaker 1: Of the Giants podcast network.
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Speaker 5: Let's go on, hell on the bunch of crazy dogs, hasn't fun? Welcome to Wednesday's Big Blue Kickoff, live from the NFL Combine, Indianapolis, all brought to you by Cadillact, the official luxury vehicle the New York Football Giants. John Schmolke pulled Latino. We're gonna lead off with our own very Madeline Burke today, who with Paul and I were kind of scouring what was going on during the media availabilities.
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Speaker 2: Madelin, Uh, let's start with that. What kind of jump out of you?
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Speaker 5: We had the linebackers and defensive linemen and edge players on the podium this morning.
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Speaker 6: Lots of big names and big guys on the podium this morning. And I think there's a lot of storylines that you know, people who have been following the draft prospect loosely are aware of.
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Speaker 2: But the ones that stood up to me.
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Speaker 6: Were the ones with a little bit of the Giants tie. Of course, Michigan d Line, min Jose Stewart, He's from the Bronx. He grew up a Giants fan. He talked about how he remembered watching the Super Bowls, the twenty seventeen, the twenty eleven team that won, and then he went and moved to Boston when he was younger, and he loved talking smack to people in Boston about those And then of course Howard Cross the third, son of Howard Cross BBK longtime viewers and Giants fans.
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Speaker 2: No former Giants tight end.
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Speaker 6: Howard Cross the third, of course, out of Notre Dame, talked to the podium.
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Speaker 2: It was great to see and for.
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Speaker 6: A guy who I mean, we know well and we watched grow up, but for a guy who grew up around the game of football and around the Giants organization, just the awe and the realization of the magnitude of this moment in his career was not lost on him. And it was great.
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Speaker 2: It was a great moment by anything to jump out at you.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, the one thing visually and we'll get into some of the details of the players later. But the one thing visually that was just incredibly stark. If you looked at one owner of the room where the kickers came out, folks look like the circus. You had the little guys who all smashed into that Volkswagen, right, and then they come out, about twenty of them come out of the Volkswagen.
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Speaker 2: And then you got the elephants.
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Speaker 5: You mean you mean the Cadillac Paul, the official luxury vehicle the New York.
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Speaker 2: That is correct, Thank you.
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Speaker 7: Cadillacs don't make them that small though, Ye, Cadillacs are big. The stark contrast as you looked against the wall of the d Lineman at the podium compared to the kickers at the podium, you'd swear the kickers were just coming.
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Speaker 2: Out of high school.
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Speaker 7: That's how small they looked at It was just a funny scene to it.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'll just say I think the different sizes of the defensive tackles too, Like you can tell you all they play the same position.
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Speaker 2: You have fifty sixty pounds worth of stretch.
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Speaker 5: Like Kenneth Drank came out later, massive human being Kenneth Quick needs two podiums. John, He's he's so big, He's a Dexter Lawrence size of player. Then you have a guy like Walter Nolan who came out he's two eighty five. So it's just different guys at different sizes that I think it's it's dark when you see him kind of stand next to each other.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've got to talk about a dual Carter as well.
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Speaker 6: If dul Carter spoke to the media today, he said, you know, without a doubt, I believe I'm the best player in this draft class, and the best players should be drafted number one. He is very confident, thinks he should be drafted first overall, thinks he brings the most value. And you know, he talked about how, hey, listen, defensive players bring as much value to a team as quarterbacks do, saying that he wants people to be more real or to realize that a bit more and saying, yes, a lot of the focus is on the quarterback and on the impact of that position, but he wants people to realize the talent that he can bring and the amount that he can change your roster.
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Speaker 2: And this is one of the deepest positions in the draft.
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Speaker 5: To edge and defensive tackle that's kind of be the majority of the players picking the top one hundred and so it was good to kind of get a feel.
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Speaker 2: For those guys today.
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Speaker 5: You know, you feel that I was unhappy to get And I don't mind telling you this because all of our of viewers know how much I.
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Speaker 8: Love Nason Graham. When you see him and talk to him.
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Speaker 2: In person, yeah, it's.
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Speaker 8: Not the guy you see on tape now you see.
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Speaker 6: So often though, that's the case, right, well, uh, he's the great supermersive physically either, like he's not like, yeah, exactly.
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Speaker 2: His tape's awesome. He looks more like Clark Kent than he does Superman. Right, Well, he puts on the cape when he goes on the.
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Speaker 5: Field, and when he does. When he's on the field, the motor is incredibly hot. Yeah, he can't be blocked. He's violent, he's vicious, he's fast, he's energetic.
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Speaker 2: Almost as energetic as made.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Well, I don't think we own anyone as I don't know.
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Speaker 6: That's a that's a high bart assent drink cafe.
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Speaker 5: When you talk to him, he's like, all right, what about all shucks?
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Speaker 2: He's almost like Shaggy from Scooby Doo.
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Speaker 5: The references already show well, come on, Scooby Doo's not that old and they're still making new Scooby Doo. So yeah, right, good stuff. Appreciate the time, and all right, let's take a quick time out. Paul Shorts from the New York Post will join us next right here on Big Boo Kick Off Live, presented by CAT Live.
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Speaker 1: That's a thread.
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Speaker 4: I love it fair.
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Speaker 9: I fell in love with the Giants. I saw lt you wanted a touchdown back when the Detroit Lions.
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Speaker 2: Passed down, so simples.
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Speaker 3: My dad's guy from generation, you know.
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Speaker 2: I was like to generation, you're your espression.
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Speaker 1: We are from New York Giants.
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Speaker 3: We got some cilantra, so on yours some carrots.
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Speaker 10: Giving back to the community means a lot, just to keep giving hope that you know, you're just living in a situation.
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Speaker 11: The situation doesn't define you.
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Speaker 3: So I got.
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Speaker 5: Thank you.
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Speaker 11: There's little things like that, just to keep encouraging guys.
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Speaker 4: Back.
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Speaker 2: You're a Big Boo kitt golf I presented by Cadillac.
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Speaker 5: The Giants NFL Combine coverage is presented by the Hospital for Special Surgery, the world's number one in orthopedics, choose Better, Move Better HSS the official hospital of the New York Football Giants, Schmelt Detina. We welcome in Paul Schwartz, who's covered the Giants. Technically is forever accurate or no? For the New York Post tech, I.
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Speaker 2: Don't think technically is forever is a technical term? Spiritual life. I've just completed my thirty first year. Give thirty first? Huh it's really my thirty first Yes? Pretty good? All right, So you've heard many GMS talk and say things.
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Speaker 5: Give me your take on what you heard from What was your main takeaway and thing that you had at top of mind, more specific than just quarterbacks. Where you walked away from Joe Shane's thirty minutes or so with the media on Tuesday, Well, it's almost.
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Speaker 12: Hard to separate quarterbacks. I mean, there was so much talk about the quarterbacks. Look, when a guy comes behind a podium in a microphone, you are either talking from a position of strength or a position of weakness, I think, for the most part, in.
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Speaker 2: Any in politics and sports, in life.
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Speaker 12: Right when you are asked to be behind a microphone, what position are you coming from?
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Speaker 2: Joe Shane is coming this year from.
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Speaker 12: Position of weakness as far as three wins retained his job.
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Speaker 2: But it's it's you know, everyone knows the deal. No, it doesn't even have to be spelled out.
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Speaker 12: You need to do better. You know, the whole operation needs to do better. So there's there's not a bravado. There's not a real sense of great confidence. I think there's a real concern that they know they need a starting quarterback and they're not sure they can get one, that they want a real good one because of where they are in a draft, because what free agency is, because whether Matt Stafford gets traded or not. So I don't think it's I think it's a it's a real tenuous situation.
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Speaker 2: I really do.
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Speaker 12: I mean, I think Joe did well. I think his attitude was good. He didn't you know, he said, look, everyone knows a depth chart.
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Speaker 2: We need a quarterback. We need two of them, and not just any quarterback.
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Speaker 5: And I think that's the I think you make it to the point, Paul where it's not like, all right, we'll need a guy that they can play on there and start for seventeen games. They need somebody that can and Joe's kind of mentioned this when you talk about the drafted players, but I think it applies to the free agents too. You want a quarterback that can elevate the other people around you, and that isn't just going to be elevated by the talent around them.
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Speaker 2: You want. They want a quarterback that's going to raise the ships.
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Speaker 12: They want a good quarterback who can win games and be their franchise quarterback. You know, whether you want to say, you know, your definition of a good quarterback is he can elevate the round them. This my definition could be he wins games, you know in the fourth quarter. You know, yes, whatever it is, are you a.
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Speaker 5: Truck or your trailer. They want a truck. They don't want a trailer that's going to get dragged along the way.
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Speaker 2: We all know what they look like.
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Speaker 4: We all know what they look like.
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Speaker 12: And as Joe said, one of his good lines is, you can't just go pick one off the franchise quarterback tree. You know, there's put it this way, there's thirty two teams in need. You know, so every has a starting quarterback, right how many? Seriously, Paul, let me ask us how many are there in the league or potentially in the draft who you would say, I want that guy.
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Speaker 2: Well, let's put it this way. I'm going to go and tell you this.
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Speaker 7: Somebody said to me the other day there were probably ten teams in this league right now who would like to upgrade their starting quarterback, and there's not enough to go around.
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Speaker 12: In this officer, I think I think ten might be a loone number. To be honest with you, I mean you shuffle, you know, you shuffle the chairs, you know what I mean. This guy's not good, but we'll try him over here. This guy failed here, you know, Sam Donald, but we'll try him here. Wow, that was a great success.
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Speaker 4: See.
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Speaker 12: The problem with that is the Sam Darnold model almost doesn't exist. There is no model where a guy fails well, fails and then comes back and is spectacularly good for a long segment of the time that you can't you can't bank on that to happen with these guys.
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Speaker 2: It's hard.
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Speaker 7: There were riverboat gamblers who will tell you, oh, why don't you take a shot at Zach Will Why don't you take a shot at Trey Lance, Why don't you take a shot at Justin Fields, who haven't exactly done a whole lot of really great things in their early tenure in the league.
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Speaker 12: Well, you know what, you have to take a shot, but but you have to have backup plans to Look, the Giants are in a position right now where they have to do anything and everything they like.
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Speaker 2: He said, I believe in taking swings. He didn't say it.
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Speaker 4: I believe to go up there and bunt.
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Speaker 13: Right.
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Speaker 2: You're a big baseball guy, right.
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Speaker 4: Remember when bunting used to be.
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Speaker 8: A big thing, right, you know, in other words, she's going to be Reggie Jackson?
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Speaker 2: And is it just you?
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Speaker 5: And it wasn't just take one swing, he said, swing taking sep taking swings.
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Speaker 12: And you know what, I didn't always believe that that philosophy. But with the Giants, you have to. You can't just say this is my guy, I'm going to ride with him. You say, I'm taking this guy and I'm bringing this guy in. I'm bringing this guy in and hopefully one of them hits, and if they don't, we got to bring in other guys.
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Speaker 2: You have to find one.
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Speaker 5: So this is where I am now, and I think this is where it gets a little complicated, and then we'll pivot off a quarterback. Well elsewhere free agency comes first, right, Yes, And I thought the interesting thing that Joe talked about is that you kind of have to figure out now in the next I guess what it's today, Wednesday, So twelve days, what the draft looks like at quarterback, who you think you can get, right, and that's going to impact what you can do in free agency, right, Like, if they conclude in twelve days that neither should Doore or cam Ward or anyone else.
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Speaker 2: If they think can be the.
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Speaker 5: Giants franchise quarterback, well then they have to be more aggressive in free agency, more aggressive on the trade market. But if they believe one of those guys can be it, and maybe they have enough discussions with Tennessee where they feel confident they can manage a trade up or something like that, then maybe you don't have to be as aggressive in free agency.
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Speaker 2: So I imagine, and I have not talked anybody.
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Speaker 5: Paul, they're probably gonna try to get both quarterbacks and for thirty visits next week would be my bet, just so they kind of get in front of them and get their evaluation done. How do you think that's going to go in terms of their aggression level next week in terms of really figuring out what they're going to do a quarter because the clock is literally ticking.
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Speaker 3: Yes.
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Speaker 2: On an ideal world, you would have the draft.
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Speaker 12: And then have free agency. In this particular case, right, if you can't get them, then you sign one. That's not the case. That's not the way it works.
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Speaker 2: What do I think? I think that they will not know? You can't know.
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Speaker 12: I mean, are the Titans in Brown's gonna quietly go to Joe Shane and say we're taking a quarterback without taking a quarter They cannot know that. All they know is there at three, right, and the top two.
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Speaker 2: Guys there's no guarantee they will be there.
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Speaker 4: And I don't know this.
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Speaker 12: I don't know if the top two guys are really the top one guy. I think I think there is a top one guy. I agree with you, Okay, I think there's a top one guy. By the way scam Ward.
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Speaker 2: Talking to people this week, that seems to be what they can do.
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Speaker 12: And so there's no way the Giants can be confident that they can stay in three and get him.
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Speaker 2: They cannot know that. They will not know that. And so I think the phrase I heard is bird in the hand.
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Speaker 12: Yeah, right, exactly, wait right, So you know what, Here's what happens is the worst case scenario is the best case scenario is you get one a free agency, right, there's not a lot of them, but you get one who you feel I can win with him, with some help, I can win with him, and then the draft shakes down in a different way.
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Speaker 7: You know what.
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Speaker 2: Take them, Sorry, Paul Ilied, I have to do one follow up.
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Speaker 4: Take them.
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Speaker 12: How about the trade market? Well, the trade market is Stafford if he's available. And you know that's that's the thing of it. We don't even know if he's available. We don't know if he's available.
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Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, let me ask you two guys right now, right now, you had to bet one hundred dollars. Is Stafford with the Rams next year? Yes? Probably not? I think no. You know why, just because there's too much of this. There's too much. I mean, they it is very loud.
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Speaker 7: I heard and the Lambs were to shut this down quite a ways ago and emphatically if it was not going to happen.
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Speaker 2: The only thing is them saying, well, okay, you can go search a deal. See you're worth out there.
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Speaker 4: That's my point.
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Speaker 12: And maybe he comes back and says, yeah, you're you're right. I can't get fifty, so I'll come back to you for whatever it is. Look, it's not the ideal fit for the Giants. He's thirty seven years old. He's also would be unquestionably the best quarterback they've had since Eli Manning in his prime.
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Speaker 4: He just would be not even close, not even close.
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Speaker 12: I mean he's I mean Matt Stafford, and his prime was better than Eli Manning other than you know, two playoff runs. So you know they have to find someone to win. This whole operation needs to win. They're coming. They went from nine to six to three. I don't know if any of us were math majors here, but I sense that is a depreciating scare right there, and that cannot continue.
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Speaker 7: All right, Paul, let me go for a second to Giants free agency. You know, Jason Pinnock biggest name on defense, Darius Slayton's biggest name on offense. What do you suppose is going to happen to those guys?
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Speaker 2: Greg van Rod in the mix there too, is he was a starter, all right, you could.
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Speaker 4: You could.
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Speaker 7: So how do you suppose the Giants deal with those guys? Or do they have holes to fill? Because those guys will go away?
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Speaker 12: Well Joe Shane mentioned a few times about right guard, and you know that Van Roten, you know, you know it's inching. Joe basically came out and said, we have four starters coming back, right That's what he said.
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Speaker 2: We have four starters coming back. We have one whole actually said that since the end the deseason. Yeah, So my sense is they will sign a right guard.
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Speaker 4: That is my sense.
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Speaker 2: That they have money.
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Speaker 12: You know, they're not going to sign one for twenty five million a year. They will sign a right guard. I don't think they're going to go in and stay in house with that. They tried that already. They'll sign a Runyon esque right guard. Will be my impression, maybe slightly less that that's my sense, could be wrong. So I think as far as the wide receiver, they love one Dale Robinson obviously, Molik neighbors, so I think that is a that's a third receiver. It just seems to me kind of the Darius Layton's time kind of it just seems like it should be over. I mean they brought him back. I mean he's had more lives already. And I love Darius. I think he's a great player, not a great player. I think he's a great guy. I think he's a very solid wide receiver, but you know what you're getting with him, and it seems to me that he probably would be better off going somewhere else, how about you know, and by the end of the year, didn't you feel that. I felt it that one year where he said, remember when he sat in his locker after a game and he said, it's exhausting. It's exhausting to have to answer questions about why we only scored ten points and we didn't have this many first downs. So he probably should go to a team with a more dynamic passing offense. I would welcome him back, certainly.
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Speaker 2: Pinnock.
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Speaker 12: You know, at this time last year, we were speculating about Xavier McKinney, right, and they were not going to go into that market. I think if you mentioned to Joe Shane Pinock, you know what, I think he would say, Nuban.
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Speaker 2: I think he would say, we got a safety. You need two of them now, I know you do.
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Speaker 12: But I think they think nuben is an emerging leader to Betty got hurting me at the end of the year. I mean, I have no real conviction on whether they bring Pinnoff back. I really don't give you an equation on this. I think they could with like a veteran guy. Now Pinnock is sort of a veteran, so I get Yeah.
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Speaker 7: Well, I found it interesting that last year, you know, Belton was in the mix and yet in spring training or spring training, I'm obviously summer caseble. Well the bunting thing got you crazy, I know it really did. Yeah, but he could not seize a starting job because Pinnock and Nubin were just too good. So Belton had to continue being the third safety in the mix.
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Speaker 5: Well, I think that's probably a little disappointed to them, and that probably would also tell me that perhaps they don't want to take a gamble that they may have to rely on Belton and therefore go out and get somebody.
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Speaker 12: You know, that safety position has always been one of those positions where you sign a veteran. You're right, you sign a thirty year old veteran, a twenty year veteran, a wise head, the.
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Speaker 2: Logan Ryan's of the world, you know, I mean the Giants have done this for years.
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Speaker 12: They signed a guy, he's kind of a he's a good player, but he's a good team You know, the the the you know, he's just a good team guy. You know that that that's the center field, the type of thing. I think it would be good for Nuban. I could see them doing that.
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Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 12: That's what Joe Shane thinks of that spot. He doesn't think of signing a guy for big, big money. Sign a guy who can come in and play, be a good player. You know, then you have Belton is the third guy. I mean, that would be my guess. I mean, I don't know if Pinnock did enough last year to say we definitely want to resign him.
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Speaker 5: How do you think you're going to address some of their holes on defense? Corner and the other defensive tackle spots specifically, are those, you know, I think you have to bring in a veteran corner. I don't know if you want to throw another young guy in that room in a room full of also very young guys, uh, and then defensive tackle for that spot next to dext Laura trying to be better against the run.
00:18:48
Speaker 12: Well, we talked about this earlier off camera, that this is a draft of defensive tackles. So you can get one in the you can get one in the third round. Who would be could could likely start for you. So that's a good thing.
00:19:02
Speaker 4: Corner.
00:19:02
Speaker 2: Well, if Travis Hunter's on the board, you want to bring in a veteran corner. If Travis Hunter's on the board and you know, the quarterback.
00:19:10
Speaker 12: Situation is extinguished, he's only like a you know, generational prospect. Now, I'm not buying the returner and receiver a part of it. I don't think they're drafting a guy a cornerback number three and then telling him, oh, by the way, go return punts.
00:19:26
Speaker 2: That ain't happening.
00:19:27
Speaker 12: But he's a damn good cornerback, right, and so I mean he comes in, he changes your defense dynamically. So veteran good Travis Hunter, as long as you have a quarterback. Paul, good stuff, my friend, Always a pleasure.
00:19:39
Speaker 5: Paul Schwartz of the New York Bos will come back with Charles Davis and NFL Network when we return.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: You gotta get pated up.
00:19:49
Speaker 9: Let's do it.
00:19:49
Speaker 3: Wow, what a kid's ridiculous?
00:19:52
Speaker 4: Alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, all right, I'll show you my.
00:19:57
Speaker 3: This is my badgerer. I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm freaked out.
00:20:03
Speaker 5: A Hey, Ryan Reynolds, here we are you what kind of piece of show is this.
00:20:10
Speaker 2: That's what happened on Kimmel.
00:20:12
Speaker 11: Here too, and I finally got an invitation, so thank you.
00:20:18
Speaker 2: Well, you know we're here to race though. Yeah, but we're not going to race this car.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: Oh no, kill kill.
00:20:40
Speaker 1: Hey, how are you.
00:20:44
Speaker 11: Okayvon?
00:20:45
Speaker 4: Nice to meet you.
00:20:46
Speaker 14: For me, it's just a blessing to always be that impact for somebody else. I always say, try to be somebody to somebody. So when I go, I want my feet in my hands to move just as fast.
00:20:55
Speaker 7: Right.
00:20:55
Speaker 14: It's been great getting to learn a lot of getting me a lot of kids. It kind of reminds you where you used to be and you have the impact that people have in your life.
00:21:02
Speaker 3: There you go.
00:21:04
Speaker 4: I think we have a tremendous impact on them, just being able to bring him.
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Speaker 14: A smile on the day and be able to, you know, really interact with him and.
00:21:09
Speaker 4: Get to know him everyone more.
00:21:11
Speaker 3: Hey, you know, really getting to step back and enjoy the moment. Can't take us five four sean, we got three thirty five?
00:21:24
Speaker 4: What all right?
00:21:27
Speaker 5: We're back here on Big Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillact, the official luxury vehicle to the new York Giants, Smoke Patino, bring in friends of the program. Charles Davis. You know him from NFL networking, of course, is great work calling NFL games on the weekend.
00:21:38
Speaker 2: Charles, how are you man?
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Speaker 4: I'm great. It's great to see both of you again. Love the way you worked at MIC. I mean that is pretty strong right there. Well that that is no gene rayburn long stick MIC like that. That's the real deal.
00:21:50
Speaker 2: Right now, I have some backspasm, so so they lean forward is not the best?
00:21:54
Speaker 3: Take me.
00:21:57
Speaker 4: And maneuver where you want to. These things look like the original cell phone. Remember those big bricks?
00:22:03
Speaker 5: Oh wow?
00:22:04
Speaker 4: Remember those? You remember those bad boys and ten people had them and you knew if they had them, they have money.
00:22:10
Speaker 5: Yes, all right, all right, so Charles, today we talked to a lot of the defensive linemen, the edge players, and the linebackers. What's your overall takeaway from the group. This is one of the better groups at those two spots that I've seen in a while. I mean you could look at probably a third of the first hundred guys off the board I think could come from these position groups.
00:22:30
Speaker 2: Your thoughts with someone in one on ones you did with them? On serious X time today.
00:22:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's exactly what you described. Did you remember last year when wouldn't we get our first even to wear at fifteen?
00:22:40
Speaker 3: Yeah?
00:22:40
Speaker 2: I think I lost you right right, Yeah at fifteen and then.
00:22:43
Speaker 4: We're gonna be waiting out long this time, big people, fast people, strong people. Was interested? Is that Duel Carter is obviously the number one edge guy right coming out of Penn State, and you guys, I mean Penn State is essentially like for the longest time, it's like New York State's college team. You know, I know the people's Syracuse. I don't want to be upset with me, but Penn State dominated that cycle of Syracuse was playing ketchup during that time frame. This kid coming out of Fenn State, Hey, where's eleven like Parsons did. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you he's Michael Parsons, but he's as close to it as they've had because they've had pass rushers a Dafeo way.
00:23:21
Speaker 13: Remember he was.
00:23:21
Speaker 4: Jason Oway coming out. You remember his senior year, Yeah, zero sacks? Right last year, Chop Robinson came out dynamic, excellent player, had a really good second half of the year. I thought was Miami. It's like four and a half, right, And I was always wondering, Okay, how come we're not translating this talent into those numbers like I usually the numbers in college show up. We don't have that problem with a duel Carter. Okay, that problem is not an issue. Twenty three and a half pro tackles for lost twelve and a half sacks. He's getting the numbers and everything going with it. There's the reason he's number one pass rusher in this draft and for some people, the number one overall player in this draft.
00:24:04
Speaker 7: Now, if he's the number one guy, and I agree, everybody obviously feels that way. In terms of the front, Mason Graham has got to be the guy who's right behind him at number two when John knows how much I love him. But I will tell you something, Charles, after seeing him at the podium in person, he doesn't look as imposing, sound is imposing, he doesn't seem as energetic.
00:24:25
Speaker 2: But look at the tape, the tape.
00:24:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, and thank goodness we have the tape right, Because we always talk about guys a little good on the hoof guys come off the bus first, right, Who was that kid we had out of Maryland a bunch of years ago. The Raiders took him for was it Bruce Campbell? Remember he had to Monster Combine here and the whole deal had not played really well in college.
00:24:47
Speaker 7: Turned out he didn't play really well in the NFL. But boy did he look the part. Look like Tarzan, plays like Jane. You know something Bracelle's always used to say.
00:24:55
Speaker 4: But with Jane, but with Mason Graham, I don't care because just what you said, you turn on that tape and what his his punch and heavy hands. He's just ruining people up front, like people are taking blows and wrestling background low center of gravity, plays with leverage. And the one thing about those wrestlers, they are so used to one to one on one combat and they don't like losing. Give me Mason Graham all day long. I don't care what he looks like up there. I don't care how I look. He's a kid I want because I've seen it on tape for all these years.
00:25:30
Speaker 2: To Tyree Wilson, the other guy that really told right.
00:25:34
Speaker 4: Has not produced yet for the Raiders, hoping he can have a breakout, but he has not been lived up to his draft status as of yet.
00:25:40
Speaker 5: So I think the interesting spot is after you get past Abdul Carter. I think there's a really good discussion as to who the next guy up is. And what I like about this zitchclass, Charles, is that you have guys that are shaped a lot of different ways.
00:25:54
Speaker 2: They really are.
00:25:55
Speaker 5: Jamar Stewart, it's a two hundred and eighty five pounded Donnas yep, right.
00:25:58
Speaker 2: Then you have Mike.
00:26:00
Speaker 5: You had a Marshall who's a smaller two hundred and fifty pund guy just SIWs.
00:26:02
Speaker 2: Stewart's even smaller than that. So you guys that are kind of different cheaps and sizes. Some have productions, some don't.
00:26:09
Speaker 5: As a rocker with great production, not the biggest guy Stuart like one and a half second, like his whole college career.
00:26:14
Speaker 2: But he's the guy is he's gonna blowup the.
00:26:16
Speaker 4: Come by and he looked at it. He's gonna look the part and you're gonna have to go back and watch tape again and try and answer your question, how do you why did we not get more? It's a tough one. Is it's a minefield that you go through. Would it be as simple as say as those general managers like the draft on trades, they will fall in well with a lot of the trades guys have and those who like to draft on production. We have the production guys as well. Be interesting because you remember when Trayvon Walker went number one overall instead of Aid Hutches, and that was very much a trades versus production.
00:26:48
Speaker 5: Sure, dude, I'm not gonna lie like Shamar Stewart's going to test and look just like Chevon Waller.
00:26:52
Speaker 4: And he's gonna look the part. And who's going to be the one that goes there? That will they go there instead of the so called productive guy. That'll be interesting to watch because the last last thing I'll say is when Joey Bosa came out. Remember the big conversation was he's clearly this guy, this guy, but has he topped out and is he twitchy enough? And is he this?
00:27:14
Speaker 2: And people start to put all this doubt due before Joey, before Joey.
00:27:18
Speaker 4: Bosa ran in a few injuries, Joey Bosa was getting you twelve a year.
00:27:21
Speaker 5: It was the same thing with Aiden Hudginson, by the way right conversation, and I take the hit on that because that was one of the guys.
00:27:26
Speaker 2: I'm like, he wins the same way with his hands every time. Where's like the bend and the person doesn't matter. He as a monster.
00:27:31
Speaker 4: We used to have that discussion inside with Gerald McCoy versus a Dominican Si. Oh wow, remember everyone wanting that one? Everyone want everyone won on that one.
00:27:42
Speaker 7: This is a good question specifically for you, Charles, because you do cover the NFL and you do cover college football as well. There's always that copycat stuff, and right now everybody is so enamored with the trenches and the Eagles defensive lines. Is that why we are now putting a greater spotlight And Mike was scope on this defensive tackle class and maybe noticing.
00:28:04
Speaker 8: Their positive traits more than we would have otherwise.
00:28:08
Speaker 4: I think it's a great point. I think that it has been helped by what we're seeing with Philadelphia. I think really it should have been a reminder that we all should be thinking offensive defensive line anyway. I don't know why we're getting away from that to begin, but I think that you're right. The other part is last year we had six quarterbacks go in the top twelve, and none of us were surprised by that. This year we are not. So guess what other position are gonna get much more emphasis? But I think it's well taken what you're saying. Philadelphia's created that. Hey, who are these big people who're bowling people up and knocking people back? Look, Joshua super Bowl it should pay off handsomely for him.
00:28:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Milton Williams.
00:28:49
Speaker 4: Milton Williams now has jumped up and then you know, all these guys had that type of a game. It makes you go back and go okay, but you got to be somewhat careful because remember Larry Brown in the secondary with his Super Bowl Oh wow, got paid big money.
00:29:04
Speaker 5: Was Washington to right off of his Super Bowl MVP right or the two fumble cooveries whatever out of that game?
00:29:09
Speaker 2: I mean, same deal.
00:29:10
Speaker 4: That's that's what happens sometimes. And I'm not saying they were bad, but what happens is you get that type of a contract. Now, maybe you can't play to that love I got the Super Bowl bump happens all the time. Happens a second round defensive tackle Charles which which is one of the give you give me a peck guy who you really like.
00:29:26
Speaker 5: From this defensive tackle group on day Tube. Is that a lot of help in that spot? Okay, I got my notes. This Caldwell kid.
00:29:35
Speaker 4: Out of Oregon, jam Mary called a big boy. Hey's something, But did you see you see his movement?
00:29:43
Speaker 2: This kid's got.
00:29:46
Speaker 4: Right, He's got a little something that goes right there.
00:29:48
Speaker 2: Right, I was right taking these notes.
00:29:49
Speaker 4: The kid that played next to Mason Graham's Ken's grant, Oh boy, you go player too?
00:29:55
Speaker 3: Now?
00:29:55
Speaker 8: All right up to Johnny takes up two podiums.
00:29:59
Speaker 2: He looks like ex Lawrence. Right, that's what he looks me.
00:30:01
Speaker 4: He's a big, massive guy. Speaking of massive walker Dion Walker from Kentucky.
00:30:10
Speaker 5: Have you seen can you give me twenty twenty three Dion Walker instead of twenty twenty four d?
00:30:14
Speaker 2: And then I'm all in.
00:30:15
Speaker 4: Right, we would all like to be in But you see why.
00:30:19
Speaker 2: You fall in love.
00:30:20
Speaker 4: It's not just a size. He'll throw that spin. He'll throw a spin move on you when he's at his best. I watch him in the Senior Bowl, chase a play out into the flat and try and make him play out in the open field. Sometimes if you don't have that year that you want, and you come back the next year, right and now, you're into Senior Bowl. Now you start to see it.
00:30:39
Speaker 2: Again, right.
00:30:40
Speaker 4: I play with Reggie White at Tennessee. I was lucky enough to be in the secondary of my freshman year his senior year. It all came together because he was a senior. It had to happen.
00:30:48
Speaker 2: Now it all.
00:30:49
Speaker 4: Worked, and we were like, go if we could have had that Reggie for the first three years. But also remembers college kids, you have to grow. You have to go through some things. Sometimes you have things that we'll never know about to take you out of your game a little bit. Someone said to me today, if your work and life balance is not in tune, I don't care who you are or what age you are, it's not gonna work. Sometimes there's things going on with these kids we just don't know about. But I liked him. I will say this, Have you guys seen Jordan Phillips Maryland?
00:31:19
Speaker 2: I like talk about seven minutes that I.
00:31:23
Speaker 4: Love sitting and talking to you guys because you guys always have the guys down and it's nice for me to bounce some stuff off. And he's the most physically imposing guy. He's really not move right. He plays upfield right, and I'll leave you with this. I don't know what round he's gonna go, but I am so curious about Taka Hemingway at South Carolina. Have you guys seen him play wildcat and then back when you get a chance, plug in the tape and watch him do some wildcat stuff. Typically at that size, when you play wildcat, you take the ball and you run behind big people and you try and create rubble. Right, this kid's jumped on people. I kid you and tell me I'm wrong. I watch There's one time when he went on a fake punt. He was on the end.
00:32:09
Speaker 2: He went out for the past covered on the pass.
00:32:12
Speaker 4: The guy throws the ball anyway, he throws a ball out and calls it in. That's insane. So I want to see the rest of it. Now. I saw some stuff on defense, but I'm just saying athletically, he's gifted.
00:32:23
Speaker 7: Security wants to get you out of here. Brid On Travis Hunter corner receiver. Come on, you know that both both sides of the fence.
00:32:31
Speaker 4: He can go either way. For me, I have no problem with that. He's gonna choose one. He's gonna have to because he'll be able to play the other in spots but he can't play the full time. It's just it's a different league, Chuck bit Neyrick's not walking through that door anymore. Roy Green, it's just a hard, hard go Now. I really shouldn't turn him down because he's proven me wrong before. But I just think the best thing for him pick one, be a master of it and go. I don't want him to be in the spot where he's just trying to go back and forth too much. Once he mastered, he can do it. I think ownership, most ownerships no want to play receiver and.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: Isn't he gonna do isn't he gonna want to do that too? Because of the contract.
00:33:07
Speaker 4: I think people want to see kid that kids score touchdowns and put butts in the seats and have better attention for them.
00:33:12
Speaker 2: I want to corner truck. I know, listen, listen, you.
00:33:15
Speaker 4: Think I want it.
00:33:15
Speaker 2: I like his corner tape better.
00:33:17
Speaker 4: I like his corner tape a lot. I think his receiver tape is really good. But I think he's going to be I think he's going to be a receiver. I think whoever drafts him now, some people may like him at corner, but I really think when ownership gets involved if you have active ownership, I think they're gonna want him to play receiver.
00:33:32
Speaker 2: Charles.
00:33:32
Speaker 5: Enjoy the rest of your day and you can check him out of NFL Network. He's on Serious at seven in the morning. He's gonna have all the Combine coverage on the workouts all that this week.
00:33:40
Speaker 2: Check it out. We'll be back with more after.
00:33:41
Speaker 4: This hr Johnny.
00:33:42
Speaker 3: We got three thirty five max space.
00:33:44
Speaker 2: We got X post.
00:33:45
Speaker 3: Okay, here's the post signal. I get you give me a good fake right behind me. See, I got you all right? What it did?
00:33:52
Speaker 2: I decided there?
00:33:54
Speaker 3: Oh, he looks, he looks, he's open. Go get it, go, get it right. Let's go.
00:34:11
Speaker 5: That was awesome.
00:34:12
Speaker 3: Prey route money, that was money.
00:34:15
Speaker 6: I think it just scattered.
00:34:18
Speaker 11: That was awesome.
00:34:20
Speaker 3: Let's go across the Lions.
00:34:29
Speaker 9: It's a thread, a love affair. I fell in love with the Giants. I saw l T wanted a touchdown back when they put the Detroit.
00:34:36
Speaker 2: Lions passed down. Phil Sims was my dad's guy from Generation Yeah.
00:34:43
Speaker 1: That was like to generation Yeah, we are the New York Giants.
00:35:03
Speaker 3: We got some cilantro so onones. So carrots.
00:35:08
Speaker 10: Giving back to the community means a lot, just to keep giving hope that you know, you're just living in a situation.
00:35:14
Speaker 11: The situation doesn't define you.
00:35:16
Speaker 4: So I got you.
00:35:22
Speaker 5: Thank you.
00:35:22
Speaker 11: There's no things like that, just to keep encouraging guys.
00:35:31
Speaker 2: Three two one, all.
00:35:35
Speaker 5: Right, we're back here on Big Boo Kickoff Live, brought to you by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the Giants at the Combine, Indianapolis. Thanks you all, Davis Medical, Nework for joining us. Jeffer Sickima slide in here in just a second and we're gonna do a little offensive line dB stuff with them. Paul, do you ever really touched on those groups a ton yet as we've kind of talked about these positions, as as we've had the conversation. All right, Trevor, are you ready to do your Chris collins Worth sliding impression?
00:36:00
Speaker 2: I got you go that.
00:36:01
Speaker 3: There we go.
00:36:02
Speaker 2: He got this smooth.
00:36:04
Speaker 15: I've got a lot of ive got a lot of practice, but watching the boss Man, so our guy, Trevor Sikhima from Pro Football Focus, you have the I'm not we only got fifteen minutes with you.
00:36:13
Speaker 5: I don't want to list all the podcasts that you host because I feel like I might run out of time.
00:36:17
Speaker 2: Do you want to give us, like just like the people a feature for what they should check.
00:36:20
Speaker 15: Out any of the p f F NFL shows, the PFF Draft Guide, and then of course the NFL stock has changed podcast as well.
00:36:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, we uh, we're gonna have your boy Connor on the next couple of days. There we go, And I'm sure you've been getting a lot of top of the draft up. We're gonna take a little deeper with you here today, Sere. And I'm I'm sure you like doing that. So you want to go, oh, line first, Paul, And do you want to go cornerback?
00:36:36
Speaker 2: What do you want to do?
00:36:37
Speaker 5: Well, let's go corner first. Let's go corner not the best class to cornerback? Why do we start the top though? We just asked Charles Davis this. If I gave you your druthers and there was no mitigating factors, Travis Hunter see a corner or a receiver for.
00:36:49
Speaker 2: You, he'd be he'd be a cornerback for me.
00:36:52
Speaker 15: And that's and that's because I think that his ability is more rare at the cornerback position. Now, it's actually kind of funny because I've been having these conversations with people over the last couple of days. If Travis Hunter wants to go number one overall, I think if if he were to be just viewed as a corner, that actually hurts his case right with Whereas if he was a wide receiver, I think he might actually have the case at going number one overall.
00:37:15
Speaker 2: That's why he's.
00:37:15
Speaker 5: Gonna be a corner and also play twenty snaps at wide receiver. That's what I think he should do. You know, It's it's funny just going through the positions the way that we do. I go through full scouting reports for wide receiver before I get to cornerback. And I watched Travis Hunter just as a wide receiver, and I watched him I win. And I was somebody who during the season the whole time, I said to myself, he's a corner.
00:37:35
Speaker 2: I think he's a corner. I think he's a corner.
00:37:36
Speaker 15: Then I watch him and hit his full scouting report is a wide receiver, and I go dang. I liked him a lot of wide receiver, so I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna have his high of a grade. And then I watched him full time at corner. I went, all right, let's CV one. He's CV one for me in this plast He is that talented. I think he is that good. He brings you true rare ball skills. He's got the long arms to him. But just more than all of this, Travis Hunter does not get as much credit as he deserves for how high IQ of a football players.
00:38:04
Speaker 2: He is such a smart football player in my opinion.
00:38:07
Speaker 15: He understands the game at such a high level at both of these positions, and I feel as though the longer that he plays, the more that he plays, he will only get to that level where he just continues to master perhaps both of these crafts. But I think certainly at the cornerback position he can be one of the best corners in the NFL.
00:38:22
Speaker 5: Paul's gonna do more corner if he was just the wide receiver, Is he your wide receiver?
00:38:27
Speaker 2: One over Ted McMillan, he's not. I would have me either. I'm with you, I would have Ted. I would have Ted over Travis. But it was funny.
00:38:32
Speaker 15: I was just talking to Sam Monson, who was with PFF and now he's the thirty third team. He asked me, He's like, who's your wide receiver one and I said it's Ted, and he's like, I would have Travis, and I was like, okay, very interesting. And he even says some guys that I've been pulling around Indianapolis say that they would have Travis Hunter as their wide receiver one. I'm still a Teed McMillan wide receiver one guy, but he's a.
00:38:51
Speaker 5: Little unrefined with the rat running Travis, which is which by the way, he's playing one hundred twenty stats a game.
00:38:56
Speaker 2: He's exhausted. Of course, your rat running is not going to be that precise. I get it.
00:38:59
Speaker 15: Yeah, which is fine, But again, like I just t is, Ted's pretty rare to me, Like it's really hard for me to not get hyperbolic with the comps that I would have for him, Drake London, Mike Evans, AJ Green, right with Tetro McMillan. It's hard to not think of those guys when you watch him play. So that's why he's still my wide receiver one now.
00:39:20
Speaker 7: When John and I first started talking about the draft a little bit after the Giants season was over, Initially my first glance was that Will Johnson would have to be the second corner and.
00:39:30
Speaker 5: I love this guy, and I even said to John he'd be like top five for me. But then as I looked a.
00:39:34
Speaker 7: Little bit more, I saw that maybe there was some sketchiness there. Yeah, how do you feel about him? Is he generically the number two corner on most people's boards?
00:39:44
Speaker 15: I think he's probably number two on most people's boards. He's corner three for me. So I just did a lot of cornerback reviews. Haven't done all of them, but I did it for about fifteen sixteen of these guys.
00:39:53
Speaker 2: I have John A.
00:39:54
Speaker 15: Barron the corner from Texas above him, so I have him as CB two. I have Will Johnson as CB three. You know, just going off kind of what you were saying there. I also had Will Johnson very high, top five player in the class going into the season. And the reason why is because when I watched Will Johnson listened at six foot two to two hundred pounds, he's got the long arms.
00:40:11
Speaker 2: I said to myself, Okay.
00:40:12
Speaker 15: This is a man coverage, you know, cat coverage type of defender where you go, hey, just don't let that guy catch the ball, and he could be able to do it.
00:40:19
Speaker 2: I liked a lot of the reps.
00:40:20
Speaker 15: I saw against Marvin Harrison junior when they played against Ohio State, and so that gave me a lot of faith that he could be a great man coverage type of defender. And then I watched a lot more of this year and a couple of games last year as well, and I went, hmm, I actually think he's.
00:40:34
Speaker 2: More of a zone cour A lot of easy stuff gets caught in front of him.
00:40:37
Speaker 15: I think he is much more of a guy where I think he's most comfortable keeping his eyes on the quarterback, keeping his eyes on the ball. I mean the pick six is sort of speak to itself of him being very comfortable and confident in more of an off coverage role, whether it's a Cover three role, whether it's a quarters.
00:40:53
Speaker 2: Role, whatever it is.
00:40:54
Speaker 15: And so with him not being as dominant as I thought he was in man, it's why I said, Okay, well, I think he's a little bit more of a zone heavy corner, which is fine, but it opened the door for me to say, I actually think I like John A.
00:41:09
Speaker 2: Barron a little bit more, even in that similar zone corner role.
00:41:12
Speaker 5: And yeah, he's more of a slot too. Baron, right, did you see him an outside guy? To see him as like I have a slot safe old combo.
00:41:17
Speaker 15: So you know, three years ago he's playing safety for Texas. Two years ago, he's playing as that nickel defender. This year he plays wide corner. I was I was very shocked when they said he was going to play wide corner going into this year because I thought he was a slot he could genuinely play outside. Now, I really do think that he has that total versatility to be able to play inside and out. I mean, like, you know, just if he were to be a New York Giant, let's just say, the versatility that you would have between him and Drew Phillis would actually be the fantastic fun both of those guys being able to play inside and out.
00:41:47
Speaker 5: So just a thought, just a thought, And then I feel like there's a pretty big gap once you get past those two guys to the next.
00:41:53
Speaker 2: Group of corners. Do you agree with that?
00:41:55
Speaker 5: And what do you think of the guys in that next group and when value might be for those cover it off the board.
00:42:01
Speaker 15: I'm a Trey Amos guy, guy from Ole, miss I think that he's pretty dang good.
00:42:07
Speaker 5: I do.
00:42:07
Speaker 15: I think that he's got scheme versatility to him, and he's got long arms, he's got the build that you would want to potentially be able to play a lot of press coverage stuff at the NFL level. I think he is more comfortable and more impactful as that off zone coverage defender, but very high forcing completion percentage over the last really a couple of seasons when he's been out there, but really this year was his first full.
00:42:26
Speaker 2: Time being a starter there. So I'm a big Tray Amos guy, So.
00:42:29
Speaker 15: I would say it's definitely those Big three, and then I would probably put Amos maybe almost in a tier of his own, and then we get into some of the other cornerbacks.
00:42:38
Speaker 2: After that, you get into a little bit more scheme focused.
00:42:41
Speaker 15: Guys man coverage corner zone coverage corners rather than these guys that you think might be able to do it all as first rounders. But I throw Trey Amos in there is that back end of the first round guy who's pretty skim versaal see.
00:42:50
Speaker 7: It seems to me last year's cornerback draft was much deeper than this year's. I mean, with the Giants got Drew Phillipps last year. Look, he's done good slot quite right, you're not finding somebody of that ilk that deep in this year's.
00:43:04
Speaker 4: Draft, are you not?
00:43:04
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
00:43:05
Speaker 15: I mean, it just sort of depends, like I immediately when you think, when you say, hey, who would be the Drew Phillips of this year? I wonder if Maxwell Harriston's that guy from Kentucky, right, guy who could play inside out for you. He's kind of that projected second third round pick. But you know, sort of to your point, it's only one of those guys, right, only one team sort of gets that caliber of a player. So maybe a luck out and get a player like that the way that the Giants were able to when they got him on Day two. But there's just not a lot of There's not a lot of value overall, I think at the cornerback spot. So it is a little bit more of a sort of pick your preference, pick your scheme, if you will, with.
00:43:38
Speaker 2: That position this year as opposed to last year. All right, let's go.
00:43:40
Speaker 5: Into your offensive line, okay, which features a bunch of guys that played offensive.
00:43:44
Speaker 2: Tackle in college.
00:43:45
Speaker 5: And I guess that's kind of my first question for you is that how many of these tackles in the end are going to end up being guards and what's the sweet spot for trying to find that spot.
00:43:56
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think it's a really great question because you know, if you were to ask that question in a different way. Somebody asked me earlier today, is like, Hey, we talked about all right, this offensive tackle.
00:44:04
Speaker 2: Maybe he is a guard. Maybe he's a guard, maybe he's a center or whatever.
00:44:07
Speaker 15: And then he's just straight up asking me, He's like, who's just a tackle? Like, who's just a tackle in this draft class? I think it's two to that come to mind immediately. We actually three I think to come to mind immediately. Ozzie Trapelo from Boston College. I think he, you know, just to build the length everything the experience with him at tackle. I think he is a tackle only type of a guy, but more of a guy that's a Day two selection rather than a first round selection. I think Brendan Crenshaw Dixon from Florida playing a right tackle spot played at San Diego State as well. I think he could be a guy who is just viewed as that right tackle type of a player.
00:44:40
Speaker 4: And then the other one is he's a project.
00:44:41
Speaker 15: But Cam Williams from Texas on the opposite side, of Calvin Banks. He's just straight up built like an offensive tackle. You really wouldn't I don't think move him inside because he's got such great length, such great size, But the technique is all over the place for him. He believe led the country and holding penalties this year, so definitely a learning curve needed for him. But those three guys, I mean, Will Campbell, Kelvin Banks, even Josh Simmons, armand Membu.
00:45:07
Speaker 2: Right, all these guys you could say maybe Rosary.
00:45:11
Speaker 15: Yeah, all these guys I think you could say, like could be guards or centers.
00:45:16
Speaker 5: Even Connorly A lot of people see as the potential guard instead of being a.
00:45:19
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think he's I think he is one who it feels like he'll stick a tackle in the league. But I do agree with you. When I first watched him, I wondered if he was going to be an inside.
00:45:29
Speaker 2: Guy squatter, which he kind of has that look a little bit more of.
00:45:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:45:33
Speaker 7: How about a thought on the most versatile lineman Zabel Most guys think can play any one of the five positions. Now, does that versatility in some ways help him or in other ways does.
00:45:45
Speaker 2: It hurt him?
00:45:46
Speaker 7: Because if he had concentrated on one spot and team said, you know what, he's going to be a great this, they might draft him higher.
00:45:53
Speaker 15: I actually think that it mostly helps him, and certainly to what you're talking about. I think there are examples in different draft classes in different years where you could look at these players who you probably know they're going to kick inside a little bit. But then, like you said, if you haven't been mastering that position, there's going to come a learning curve with you. But when I watched Zabel play as a center and a guard at the Senior Bowl and how well he played it, and how well his footwork and his grip strength and his core strength all translated so quickly to those positions, I genuinely believe we should be talking about Grayzabel the way that we talked about Graham Barton last year. And Graham Barton went twenty six overall to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Yeah, that is what I think of grays year, right exactly. And he it was the same thing. Graham Barton played left tackle for Duke for two or three straight years and then he moved into center. He had played center a little bit when he was a true freshman at Duke, but it had been years since he had done that. Immediately goes to center in the league to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Zabel has been playing offensive tackle the last two years with North Dakota State. I think he'll immediately become a center in the NFL. But I believe that we should be talking about those guys in similar draft range in a similar light.
00:47:03
Speaker 5: All right, how about the guard only So you talked about how few tackle onlyes are who are the guard only Is that that you like because the Giants do I have haven't need at that spot, and it potentially could be a Day two target.
00:47:11
Speaker 15: Yeah, it's you know, it's it's a lot of players who are gonna be much later draft picks. I think a lot of the guard only guys are probably a lot of Day three guys. But Tyler Booker is the one that's at the very top of the draft from Alabama. You know, he's the guard only player.
00:47:26
Speaker 5: Knava Jackson too, right, don't see him as or do you see him as a guy that could swing out the tackle?
00:47:31
Speaker 4: I don't.
00:47:32
Speaker 15: I think that he was playing there out of necessity from Ohio State, and it was a little bit like a Joe Toney situation where they go, hey, we're gonna coach you up on the technique and we're going to teach you how to sort of like cut off speed rushers. But at the NFL level, I don't I don't quite see him as like an Elijah VERA Tucker type of a player with the New York Jets, where it's like, Okay, here's a guard and we could play him at tackle in a pinch.
00:47:50
Speaker 2: I think that he is much more of a guard there.
00:47:52
Speaker 15: You know the Georgia guys doing Fairchild, Tate Ratlicche, I think both of those guys are guard only type of players.
00:47:59
Speaker 2: They're as well, you know Jered Wilson.
00:48:01
Speaker 15: I know we're talking about a different position here, but I feel like he I think he can have a little bit of versatility to him.
00:48:05
Speaker 2: He's got some great athleticism.
00:48:06
Speaker 15: But like those two guys Luke Candra from Cincinnati, I think these are again like guard only types of play out there.
00:48:12
Speaker 2: How about the Fraser the guard out of LSU, Miles Fraser.
00:48:15
Speaker 15: Oh so, I was not a big fan of Fraser coming into this season. Thought he played much better this year.
00:48:22
Speaker 4: I really do.
00:48:22
Speaker 15: I thought that he that he put his best foot forward this season. I do think that he is a guard only type of a player, but it was his best year. I thought of the years that I had watched he was good at mobile too.
00:48:32
Speaker 4: He was I also think that his teammate Emery Jones.
00:48:37
Speaker 15: A lot of people sort of went into this year and they were like, Oh, look at LSU's offensive tackles. Will Campbell Emery Jones. They've been starting since they were true freshmen. That that pairing of offensive tackles. And I remember watching Emory and I was like, I think he can play, but I just don't think he can play at tackle. There was much more of a guard for him, and I think you start to mitigate a lot of the weaknesses if you stick him inside the guard.
00:48:58
Speaker 2: So that's what I think about it.
00:48:59
Speaker 7: We believe the Giants are going to go for offensive line depth, and we kind of think it might be on the interior because obviously at the moment they don't know Van Roten's coming back, and they may have a hole at right guard. But I want to ask you, because you mentioned you love Zabel so much in North Dakota State, how about Jay Coopis last year who came out Giants grab him as an undrafted rookie free agent, and the coaching staff loves this kid.
00:49:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, to the point where.
00:49:24
Speaker 5: He even got into the lineup at the end of the season. Where does he compare to the third and fourth round guards in this draft? Should we be thinking more about him?
00:49:34
Speaker 15: Well, I think that the answer to that comes down to was just talking about this with somebody earlier today. When you have undrafted free agents that hit, it is the fruits of a really good scouting process, because in order to hit on an undrafted free agent, you have to have continuity between your scouts, between the coaches, and between the front office to be able to make all these things happen. Because when you get when you get to undrafted free agents, you're either a little small, a little slow, don't have the strength, something is holding you from being a drafted But if you can make an impact, that means that they gravitated.
00:50:13
Speaker 2: Towards likely the football player that you are.
00:50:15
Speaker 15: So all of that to kind of get around to your question that to me would all come down to, do you believe that one of these guys who you would draft in the third, fourth, fifth round has the mental makeup that's the same as an undrafted free agent who's able to crack the starting lineup. And if you do, then yeah, I think maybe you start talking about it in similar light. But if not, then you probably lean towards the guy that you already have on your roster that you know can outperform where he was drafted or wasn't even drafted.
00:50:42
Speaker 5: Final question, regardless of position, where do you think you're gonna find some players on Day three?
00:50:47
Speaker 4: Here?
00:50:47
Speaker 5: Around four, five and six, we're guys gonna be left on the board where you're gonna be cooking with the guy that maybe you can think about starting a year or two.
00:50:53
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think it's hard not to just say the defensive line because there's just so many good defensive linemen. I mean, I think of guys who are going to be Day three selections just because there aren't enough picks in the top one hundred, you know, like an Anius Peebles from Virginia Tech.
00:51:09
Speaker 16: A A.
00:51:10
Speaker 15: Antoine Powell, Ryland from Virginia Tech, CJ. West from Indiana, camp Orsley from Boston. I mean, so I like the fact that like Stackhouse is obviously coming from a big time program, big time defensive line. I think he's going to be an end of day three type of a guy, but obviously somebody who might be able to fill at a roster and be a preferred practice squad player for you, just because he's coming from such a good programmate.
00:51:36
Speaker 2: Brinton.
00:51:37
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean, like Brint, I just swore those guys are sort of in the same light, but like, yeah, there's just there's so many of those guys in this class where I even look at my own rankings and I go like, I can't be this low on him, can I? And then I, you know, I was scrolling a little bit above and I was like, oh, I wouldn't put him over this guy. Wouldn't put him over this guy. And it's just that is how deep edge rushing intier defensive line is this year.
00:51:58
Speaker 2: Good stuff, my man, or joy the rest of your week.
00:52:00
Speaker 4: We'll talk you.
00:52:00
Speaker 5: So I appreciate again, ever thinking aboutro football focus, Jorda read when we return right here on big blue.
00:52:04
Speaker 2: Kick off line to look up, you got to get patted up.
00:52:09
Speaker 5: Let's do.
00:52:10
Speaker 3: It's ridiculous.
00:52:12
Speaker 7: Alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, I'll show you my r This is my fachurer.
00:52:22
Speaker 3: I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm freaked out.
00:52:26
Speaker 2: Hey, Ryan Reynolds here, where are you? What kind of piece of show is this? That's what happened on Kimmel.
00:52:32
Speaker 1: Here too, and I finally got an invitation, so thank you.
00:52:39
Speaker 2: Well, you know we're here to race though, Yeah, but we're not going to race this car.
00:52:41
Speaker 4: Hold on.
00:52:55
Speaker 5: Back you a big blue kick off line presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle than New Your Football Giant Smoked Patino owed by Front of the Programs Jordan read from ESPN.
00:53:02
Speaker 2: Jordan howay Man.
00:53:03
Speaker 13: Good, Happy to be here talking New York Giants football and some.
00:53:06
Speaker 2: Draft prospects as well.
00:53:07
Speaker 5: So we had a long conversation a couple weeks ago on the Giants Total podcast talking about.
00:53:10
Speaker 2: The Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl.
00:53:12
Speaker 5: But now we're gonna get the taste to everybody this week, right, and let's start.
00:53:16
Speaker 2: Does all the Giant fans want to hear about it?
00:53:18
Speaker 5: Are the quarterbacks at the top? I know you're more of a Cam Warre guy than the ship guy. You're on the same page as Paul and I in that regard. How do you see that position playing out in the draft this year? As you talk to more people here in Indiana and kind of get a feel for what that marketplace might look like.
00:53:33
Speaker 16: Yeah, it'll be interesting. Of course, it starts with the Titans at number one overall. So whatever they elect to do, and what.
00:53:38
Speaker 13: You're hoping if you're the Giants, is that one of the two teams at the.
00:53:41
Speaker 16: Top they go with the abdu Carter just because that will leave them with the quarterback at number three overall, whether it's cam Ward or show door standards. So as of right now, still don't have word as far as which way the Titans are leaning. Right now, we probably won't find out until the card it's turned in on draft day. But if you're the Giants, you're crossing your fingers that Abdu Carter go somewhere in those top two picks.
00:54:00
Speaker 5: Well, I want to follow up real quick, Paul, do you have enough of a gap I do between Ward and Sanders or you think, all right, if it cost me to choose to move up a couple spots to one, that you would pull the trigger beause, Look, the Titans, if they go down to three, they can still get one of the top two talents in the draft, whether it's Abdul Quarter or Travis Hunter right, So that to me makes sense for Tennessee. It would make sense for a team like the Giants if you know they don't get a veteran in free agency, however that ends up going on, Would that be worth the bang for your buck? Do you have Ward enough of a gap ahead of Sanders for you? Yeah?
00:54:30
Speaker 4: I do.
00:54:30
Speaker 16: I mean I will be comfortable doing that if I'm the Giants, just because you're in desperation situation right now with the quarterback spot and you have to find a way to get a young quarterback. You cannot escape this draft without a young quarterback, assuming they don't go to the veteran route. So whatever the price tag is now, you don't want to overspend, of course, But if the price tag is reasonable for you to get yourself in range to get one of the two at the top, or even trade up to the number one overall pick to get cam Ward, I would be comfortable.
00:54:56
Speaker 2: Doing that, Jordan.
00:54:57
Speaker 7: We know the teams at the top are doing infinitum research on the QBS.
00:55:02
Speaker 4: They can even tell you how many eyelashes they have on each eye.
00:55:04
Speaker 7: Okay, that's the way it goes these days, right, But what do you think the odds are that a team's grade or portfolio on one of these top two qbs is going to change between the meetings here at the Combine, the pro days, you know, the visits. Do you think there's gonna be much movement or do you suspect everybody's pretty much locked in as to who they think one should be and two should be.
00:55:28
Speaker 16: Well, I think things are always gonna be fluid, especially when you're talking about quarterbacks.
00:55:32
Speaker 13: Just because they still have to do board work here at the Combine.
00:55:34
Speaker 16: They're gonna take them through private workouts as well with the top thirty stuff, so that'll give them another opportunity to add some more stuff to their draft portfolio. So I think they're not locked into anything right now, just because the process is so fluid. They really haven't even met either one of these guys right now.
00:55:49
Speaker 7: The reason I ask you that, though, is because most of the people who say cam Ward say there's a gap, And if there's a gap, chances are Sanders on those boards isn't going to be able to overtake him.
00:56:02
Speaker 13: Yeah.
00:56:02
Speaker 16: Well, from our side, of course, just because we're not gonna be able to sit down and actually go through an actual formal meeting with these guys, So most of our stuff is just tape and then you know speaking the sources and you know scouts within the league and how they feel about them and just asking them questions how was their meeting? So for me, like I said, there's still a gap between the two, but it is always fluid as an evaluation.
00:56:23
Speaker 5: All right, Jordan, this is the last thing on the quarterbacks, then we'll move on to other stuff going into this, I would not feel comfortable with three. I gotta be honest with you picking Sanders over Abdull Carter or Travis Hunter.
00:56:35
Speaker 2: I just feel like there's a huge.
00:56:37
Speaker 5: Gap for me there in terms of how the players are graded. So if I'm the Giants knowing that you might not have access to cambored like that. Just like last year they tried to move up to draft the quarterbacks Somes, you just can't do it. They have to walk away in free agency that with the quarterback they feel good about starting Week one, so you don't get put into a position in the Dragon.
00:56:54
Speaker 2: Now, maybe the Giants will have Sanders rank that high.
00:56:55
Speaker 5: I don't know how they view him as a player where you have to take a guy out of a tier and move him ahead of a potential awesome player just because he needs the position.
00:57:05
Speaker 16: Yeah, Like I said, they got to figure out a way to come out of the with the quarterback. Assuming, like I said, they don't go the veteran route. But let's say they do sign a veteran. Now that puts you in position to take a Travis Hunter or an abdu Carter or somebody like.
00:57:18
Speaker 2: And then their our quarterbacks later that you could pick the developer.
00:57:20
Speaker 13: Yeah, there is, you know it is Kyle McCord.
00:57:22
Speaker 16: I like him as a developmental guy, depending on how you feel about Jaylen Melrowe and his ability to become more.
00:57:27
Speaker 4: Consistent as a passer.
00:57:28
Speaker 16: Tyler Schuck is somebody that a lot of people in the league really like a lot as well, And even though they may not have the upside of those other guys, maybe you go the veteran plus a young quarterback route.
00:57:37
Speaker 7: The Giants have made it clear about their priorities, right, get the quarterback, Enhance the defense, especially the rush defense, help with depth on the offensive line, and they need more depth of corner.
00:57:48
Speaker 4: Yep.
00:57:48
Speaker 7: Now, knowing the depth of the draft, especially at defensive line defensive.
00:57:53
Speaker 2: Tackle, would you be more inclined.
00:57:56
Speaker 8: To draft a couple of those guys and maybe look to free agency or trade for the other spots.
00:58:02
Speaker 16: It just depends on how you feel about this defensive line class. I feel great about this year's defense, like everybody absolutely loaded. So and I've said the same thing about running back as well, Like even though you don't need or have a need at those positions, take one anyway.
00:58:15
Speaker 4: That's how loaded this year's draft class is.
00:58:17
Speaker 16: And they obviously haven't needed defensive line, so I'm sure they're gonna select one, whatever pick it may be, So they need a defensive lineman, and I will not be hesitant at all.
00:58:26
Speaker 13: It's a fickle on, especially in this year's crop.
00:58:28
Speaker 2: What's the sweet spot for corner? Like, at what point do we fall off of cliff and you're like, all right, we're in trouble here.
00:58:34
Speaker 5: What's the sweet spot for finding a guy that you can that can help you specifically on the outside.
00:58:37
Speaker 2: Because I think they've really seen Drew faulps as their nickel once.
00:58:39
Speaker 16: We get into like the fourth round, That's why I'll get it, just like a precipitous drop off after that, just because round two is really where I have a big cluster now, Benjamin Morrison of Notre Dame, Maxwell Harriston out of Kentucky, Azariah Thomas out of Florida State.
00:58:56
Speaker 4: He's another.
00:58:56
Speaker 16: So there's a lot of guys in that cluster of second round right now, and now they could differentiate themselves out of that cluster.
00:59:03
Speaker 4: Just because we still have the combine to go.
00:59:05
Speaker 16: We have a lot of meetings to go as well throughout the process, but right now there's a huge clump.
00:59:09
Speaker 13: Of guys on Day two.
00:59:10
Speaker 7: Now, I don't suspect the Giants will be looking for a tight end, but in your recent writings for ESPN, you've listed tight end as one of the top three positions in this draft.
00:59:20
Speaker 5: Specifically, it's more of the receiving tight ends. It seems that that have, you know, kind of made their mark in this draft. Would you think that they're that good that maybe you just take one anyway at one point during this draft because they could be that good.
00:59:34
Speaker 16: You can never have too much depth at any position in football, no matter what it is, and even if you don't have a need, just take one anyway, just because we just saw the Philadelphia Eagles stacked resources that defensive line and it's paid off for them. So even though you may not have any I like THEO Johnson, I was a big fan of film yeah coming out, But maybe they go with a blocking tight end like a Jackson Halls out of Georgia State. Excuse me, Georgia Tech. That's a really good player.
00:59:56
Speaker 4: CJ.
00:59:56
Speaker 16: De Free out of Alabama that's another good player as well. So even though you may not have an immediate need, go ahead and take one. Even though you don't have an immediate need there, how do.
01:00:05
Speaker 5: You cheer out this top group of players, like I see it as you of your two right, Carter and Hunter, they kind of then you give a gap.
01:00:14
Speaker 2: How big is your next group?
01:00:15
Speaker 5: And then how massive is like the third tier where you have one team of a guy at eighteen, another team has like fifty.
01:00:22
Speaker 16: So there's three blue chip guys in this draft class. To me, you mentioned too already and Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter. But I see Mason Graham, thank you. I think he's a franchise altering defensive tackle. And you know he's not physically He's not gonna look as impressive as some of these other guys.
01:00:39
Speaker 5: Which is why I have him at the top of my next group. By the way, he's blockable.
01:00:43
Speaker 16: He's not gonna be that guy you pick up first in a pick up basketball game. He's not gonna be the first pick in that. But when you turn on the tape, he just beats everybody.
01:00:52
Speaker 2: He's great.
01:00:53
Speaker 16: He just beats everybody. So those will be the three blue chip guys and this year's draft class. To me, after that, it's a little bit of a drop off after that. But once we get into like the third or fourth round in this year's draft class, that's where things get a little bit sketchy.
01:01:06
Speaker 2: How many guys? How many guys you have like top ten in any draft class? In this group?
01:01:11
Speaker 5: Is it just those top three? And then everyone else would be out of the top just those top three you be very different then, right once you get past those top I mean, you know, Will Johnson has an argument of the corner out of Michigan. He has an argument to be top ten across multiple drafts. But those three blue chippers at the top, those are the three in this years draft class.
01:01:27
Speaker 7: So many times we come out here and we're talking about the wide receiver class. Nobody's really talking about the wide receiver class.
01:01:34
Speaker 13: This two we've been spoiled the past few years.
01:01:36
Speaker 5: Is that because that they were that good and they've kind of warped our senses of how good these guys can be.
01:01:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's all it is.
01:01:44
Speaker 16: We've been so spoiled with really great receiver classes over the past four or five years or so. We've seen guys go top ten, top fifteen consecutive years. But this year there just isn't that Markie talent like we've seen in years past. And I like Tedlorrod McMillan the receiver Arizona, right, but there's not a lot of people that see him as that bona fide top ten or top twelve, top pick, that type of pick right now. And there's other players that I think are more so wide receiver twos on the next level, like Luther Burton the third out of Missouri and Mecca Obuka out of Ohio State, Matthew Golden out of Texas. A lot of those guys are glorified wide receiver twos on the next level.
01:02:21
Speaker 5: Do you think you can find of what besides those guys are startable, you know, good solid wide receivers on day two, do you think they're gonna get pushed up because it's shallower at the top.
01:02:30
Speaker 16: I mean, I think we'll see a run on those guys, probably somewhere. I would say in between pick sixty and pick ninety, so probably late second, early third rounds.
01:02:40
Speaker 2: Like the Iowa State guys will be in there.
01:02:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, yeah, like Jaydon.
01:02:43
Speaker 16: Higgins out of Iowa State is one that we've talked about plenty. I like Ricky White out of UNLV. He's probably more so of a round three, round four.
01:02:50
Speaker 4: Pick, but they're good at the TRINB. Yeah, he was absolutely terrific.
01:02:53
Speaker 16: But there's a lot of depth if you're looking for wide receiver towo or wide receiver three types of this hear.
01:02:56
Speaker 8: And what I like about it too, Jordan, is that a lot of these receivers are six feet six'.
01:03:01
Speaker 5: One.
01:03:01
Speaker 2: Yeah this is not a draft for shrimpy you, know slot wide.
01:03:06
Speaker 4: Receivers.
01:03:07
Speaker 16: Yeah as a former, quarterback trust, me we always like those, big tall guys that even though you may throw an inaccurate, pass they can just tower over everybody and just go up and get the.
01:03:14
Speaker 5: Ball we don't have position value rules to day in THE nfl these, Days, Jordan, right but because you have so few players at premium positions at the top of draft boards in this year's.
01:03:25
Speaker 2: Draft are we gonna see tight, ends running? Backs you, know maybe?
01:03:28
Speaker 5: Safeties you, Know Min warri is a guy we even talked, about yet kind of get pushed up a little higher than they normally would in the draft because there are not enough premium players at the top of these draft.
01:03:37
Speaker 16: Boards, YEAH i think this is gonna be a really unpredictable first, round and that's starting at number.
01:03:42
Speaker 13: One, overall we don't know who's gonna go number.
01:03:44
Speaker 16: One but with there being so much questions after those top three guys that we talked about a little bit, Earlier we're gonna see a lot of players that maybe were prejicted to go in the back end of the first round that could go even. Higher that's WHY i said there's gonna be so much unpredictability with this. Draft this is draft class just because there isn't a lot of bona fide guys that we know or blue chippers like we saw last.
01:04:07
Speaker 7: Year can you get it feel at all for how MANY nfl teams look At travis hard who you have number, ONE i believe on your board more as a? Corner how many think more of a, receiver and how many think going, in you know, what we're gonna have some substantial snaps for him on both.
01:04:23
Speaker 2: Sides of the.
01:04:23
Speaker 16: Ball, well it just depends on who you. Ask, honestly there's gonna be a mixed bag because it's.
01:04:27
Speaker 4: Changed third is.
01:04:29
Speaker 16: Split AND i, mean just listening to some of THE gm interviews that were sharing their opinion About Travis, hunter there was a lot of people that SAID i would start them at. Corner there are some other people that SAID i would play them at wide. Receiver but it's a good problem to have JUST i would put them at. CORNER i would play them at corner full, time AND i would sprinkle him in maybe twenty to twenty five plays a game at wide. Receiver just because outside Of Troy brown when he was playing For, Belichick i've never really seen anybody that's been a full time receiver but part time at. Corner in a lot of part time corners that have played sparingly at wide. Receiver SO i would feel more comfortable in that. Aspect AND i KNOW i wouldn't sleep on his return, skillsah not at.
01:05:07
Speaker 4: ALL i think he's. RARE i, Mean i've said this to.
01:05:10
Speaker 16: Everybody the only comparable, player And i'm going to continue to use this comp for, him Is Champ bayley when he was coming out Of georgia in the late. Nineties you're the only other player to average over one hundred snaps during his career and he's wearing a gold jacket right. NOW i Believe Travis hunter has that type of rare.
01:05:26
Speaker 5: Ability last one for, Me giants need a, guard a right guard, specifically they have a hole there on their offensive. Line who are maybe some of the day two guards that you? Like starting at thirty four The giants pick that should be in the mix from that, round there's a.
01:05:38
Speaker 16: Couple Jonas savana out Of arizona is one THAT i like quite a. Bit he has experience at right guard and right, tackle play primarily right tackle last, year BUT i view him as a guard on the next. Level Mry jones is the guy that's probably late second early third round pick out OF. Lsu he's another that played right, tackle BUT i believe he's a guard on the next. Level so those are two names THAT i definitely would key in.
01:05:57
Speaker 2: On awesome, Grit, jorydan good, stuff my.
01:05:59
Speaker 5: Friend the rest of your, day you can find anything new coming out on THE espn this Se SO i.
01:06:02
Speaker 16: Have my mock draft coming out Next, Tuesday march, fourth post, combine so it'll be two rounds as.
01:06:09
Speaker 13: Well So i'm excited to share.
01:06:10
Speaker 5: That, okay WELL i want to. GO i want to go inside that real, quick and THEN i know you got to. Go how much of that is done?
01:06:17
Speaker 16: TODAY i have not started it at. All it's all going to be What i'm hearing from. HERE i don't ever start MY, mi my mock draft THAT i are published before or after the.
01:06:26
Speaker 4: COMBINE i should SAY i always, WAIT i always, WAIT i always wait To So monday is going to be a long.
01:06:31
Speaker 2: Day is going to be a very long, time very good joind of good. Stuff stay tuned More Big boo Kick Off fly presented By. Cadillac when we, return.
01:06:40
Speaker 3: We got Some cilantro so, onones some.
01:06:45
Speaker 10: Carrots giving back to the community means a, lot just to keep giving hope that you, know you're just living in a.
01:06:51
Speaker 11: Situation the situation doesn't define.
01:06:53
Speaker 4: You SO i got.
01:07:01
Speaker 11: Like that just to keep encouraging.
01:07:02
Speaker 5: Guys all, right we're wrapping Up Big blue kig Goof live presented By. Cadillac The official luxury vehicle the giants right here at THE Nfl combine In. Indianapolis Schmelk datino with, You. Paul busy day at the podium, today long. DAY a bunch of defensive tackles did not come out that we wanted to talk. To hopefully we'll get them. Tomorrow, yeah and that tends to happen at this, time saying they get backed, up the guys run out of time before they can come. Out so you and a couple guys you wanted to kind of talk about today that maybe fans want to hear about.
01:07:34
Speaker 2: It AND i got a couple guys, too and then we'll wrap things.
01:07:36
Speaker 4: Up.
01:07:36
Speaker 7: WELL i mentioned my story About Mason graham, early BUT i Think Jordan phillips said Of maryland interesting give and. Take and this is part of that intangible stuff why coaches and scouts say they want to meet with guys because you can see what you can see on, tape but when you meet with guys sometimes you find a little bit more about them as a. Person now this doesn't mean a whole, lot and it won't necessarily tell you where he gets, drafted but it's an interesting take on. Him in about the ten years or so That i've been coming to the combine with. You, john it's roughly about that long eight. Years whatever it, IS i have never seen anybody ever. Say while he was getting questioned at the, podium and this is a quote now he goes he was being fired at by a whole bunch of. People he always said, yes sir to every single, question Which i've seen some people.
01:08:28
Speaker 2: Do but here's what was.
01:08:29
Speaker 7: Unique at one, point a guy and a lady reporter both fired off the same. Question he actually, said hold, it, SIR i apologize. Ladies, First i'd never seen.
01:08:43
Speaker 5: That why we're trying to talk over a woman. Reporter, no it wasn't, Me it WASN'T i actually was. THAT i saw that it was very.
01:08:51
Speaker 2: Polite he. Was he went out of his way to be super, polite super.
01:08:57
Speaker 5: Respectful and you, know these guys are twenty twenty one maybe twenty two years, Old, john and when you see, that it.
01:09:07
Speaker 2: Does tell you something about.
01:09:09
Speaker 17: Them seems like a really nice, kid seems like an, awesome awesome. Guy and he is, thick and he is stout like a fire, hydrant and he can play and he's very. ACTIVE i got a feeling that he's going to impress a lot of the people who talk to him in terms of his.
01:09:24
Speaker 2: INTANGIBLES i enjoyed talking To Ashton jilot out Of. Louisville kind of a, versatile you.
01:09:29
Speaker 5: Know he said he sees himself as a three to four defensive, end but he can be a four to three defensive. Tackle Olo Femi, oladejo who used to be an middle inside linebacker and now was an edge. Player massive, frame that. GUY i would love him as a second round edge in this. DRAFT i think he's a lot of upside.
01:09:43
Speaker 2: Still at that.
01:09:43
Speaker 5: Spot David walker small, SCHOOL i can't remember which, one but A fcs, program really small, guy but he dominated The Senior bowl and a small, stature but very. Impressive Jack sawyer is like central Casting midwestern backer, guy like literally central.
01:10:02
Speaker 2: Casting.
01:10:03
Speaker 5: Uh prince human Me Me layan is a guy THAT i enjoyed talking. To he was, fun really looks the part in terms of a guy he was at The Senior. Bowl did have a chance to talk to. Him Nick, scardon who's been one of my favorite guys in this. Process though his tape this year was, good so he's played at two eighty. FIVE i asked him he always looked little heavy to me on. TAPE i, said what's your target? Weight he goes to sixty? Five that's WHAT i am, now AND i go you played heavy then that already Goes, YEAH i play at twenty.
01:10:30
Speaker 2: Five he wanted me to play at like the FOUR i or five.
01:10:32
Speaker 5: Technique SO i wonder with twenty less pounds him if he's gonna be a lot more explosive off the.
01:10:37
Speaker 2: Edge so that was months.
01:10:38
Speaker 5: Ago, yeah, Right so he's dropped twenty, pounds So i'm curious to see how he tests today at a lighter. WEIGHT i think he might test very very, well which could push him into the first.
01:10:48
Speaker 2: Round DID i see you By Alfred collins or? No, yes he's a very large, man isn't? He, yes but in a good.
01:10:54
Speaker 5: Way now he's correctly yes He if you just do the eye test at the, podium that guy like checks every box from the eye test. Perspective James, Pearson Jalen, walker smaller, guys, Yes Jylan, walker smaller, frame but, man he is built, though like his upper arms and his shoulders and his chest very well picked again at your young, Man, yes, absolutely but not a huge. Frame jis here to remind me of slot he's he's, skinnier, slight, slight slight speed, rusher but he's a. Guy Uh Michael WILLIAMS i thought looked like the right frame for side. Backer he's had shoulder, surgery so he's not been a, Lift So i'm not going to judge How thinkey lots BECAUSE i think the shoulder probably has reduced that. ABILITY a lot of these linebackers are very, Small. Paul you, Know Jeffrey boss is like a converted safety From. Oregon but they're all smaller guys except For Jihad campbell out Of, alabama who looks like a defensive end to me in a linebacker's.
01:11:48
Speaker 2: Body he's going to test off the charts this. Week that's a GUY i think you can kind of keep an eye. On paul was very. IMPRESSED i did not talk to him at.
01:11:55
Speaker 5: All very.
01:11:56
Speaker 2: Impressive.
01:11:56
Speaker 7: Gentleman talked about how he models his game After greenlaw And, warner two very IMPRESSIVE nfl, players and specifically talk much about how he loves having the green. Dot he wants to be the guy to call the plays out there on, defense relishes that.
01:12:12
Speaker 2: Role that kind of caught me a little bit, Like, okay that's a good.
01:12:16
Speaker 5: Sign Darius alexander Av, TOLEDO a small school guy is someone THAT i enjoy talking. To HE i think not a lot of sack, production but his tape's really. Good he was great the senior. BOY i know you had a lot of, Fun so DID i catch it.
01:12:25
Speaker 2: Up with Toward.
01:12:26
Speaker 7: Cross always good to see Little howard as they call him at two hundred and eighty five.
01:12:30
Speaker 2: Pounds that's not so, sure he's, little but we're looking forward to seeing what he does in the.
01:12:35
Speaker 5: Draft, Absolutely, paul good. Times we'll be back tomorrow go at. Thirty check Out Giant total. Podcast Daniel jeremiah's up right. Now pearson will Get Ian rappaport on in a couple. Hours we'll get that. Up he is hard at. Work he's making it. Happen we'll have her playbook later on in the week as. Well we're gonna have a couple more insiders. Huddles it'll be a lot of. Fun make sure you stay tuned to The giants Dot, Com giants YouTube, Channel Big book, kickoff lot of the podcast, feeds the app all that. Stuff as we, continue you are coverage From indianapolis for our entire crew For Paul latino From. Madelenburg for all of our, GUESTS i Am John. Schmuck we'll see tomorrow twelve thirty for another live episode Of Big. Bill Kick off five on The giants app and streaming live on The giants YouTube channel
Speaker 1: It's time for a big Blue kickoff line.
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Speaker 2: Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it because.
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Speaker 1: You're on giants dot com.
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Speaker 2: You know what I saw, New York Giant crack.
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Speaker 1: And the Giants Mobile.
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Speaker 3: What tuck down?
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Speaker 4: We all were out tampling the part.
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Speaker 1: Of the Giants podcast network.
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Speaker 5: Let's go on, hell on the bunch of crazy dogs, hasn't fun? Welcome to Wednesday's Big Blue Kickoff, live from the NFL Combine, Indianapolis, all brought to you by Cadillact, the official luxury vehicle the New York Football Giants. John Schmolke pulled Latino. We're gonna lead off with our own very Madeline Burke today, who with Paul and I were kind of scouring what was going on during the media availabilities.
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Speaker 2: Madelin, Uh, let's start with that. What kind of jump out of you?
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Speaker 5: We had the linebackers and defensive linemen and edge players on the podium this morning.
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Speaker 6: Lots of big names and big guys on the podium this morning. And I think there's a lot of storylines that you know, people who have been following the draft prospect loosely are aware of.
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Speaker 2: But the ones that stood up to me.
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Speaker 6: Were the ones with a little bit of the Giants tie. Of course, Michigan d Line, min Jose Stewart, He's from the Bronx. He grew up a Giants fan. He talked about how he remembered watching the Super Bowls, the twenty seventeen, the twenty eleven team that won, and then he went and moved to Boston when he was younger, and he loved talking smack to people in Boston about those And then of course Howard Cross the third, son of Howard Cross BBK longtime viewers and Giants fans.
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Speaker 2: No former Giants tight end.
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Speaker 6: Howard Cross the third, of course, out of Notre Dame, talked to the podium.
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Speaker 2: It was great to see and for.
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Speaker 6: A guy who I mean, we know well and we watched grow up, but for a guy who grew up around the game of football and around the Giants organization, just the awe and the realization of the magnitude of this moment in his career was not lost on him. And it was great.
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Speaker 2: It was a great moment by anything to jump out at you.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, the one thing visually and we'll get into some of the details of the players later. But the one thing visually that was just incredibly stark. If you looked at one owner of the room where the kickers came out, folks look like the circus. You had the little guys who all smashed into that Volkswagen, right, and then they come out, about twenty of them come out of the Volkswagen.
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Speaker 2: And then you got the elephants.
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Speaker 5: You mean you mean the Cadillac Paul, the official luxury vehicle the New York.
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Speaker 2: That is correct, Thank you.
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Speaker 7: Cadillacs don't make them that small though, Ye, Cadillacs are big. The stark contrast as you looked against the wall of the d Lineman at the podium compared to the kickers at the podium, you'd swear the kickers were just coming.
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Speaker 2: Out of high school.
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Speaker 7: That's how small they looked at It was just a funny scene to it.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'll just say I think the different sizes of the defensive tackles too, Like you can tell you all they play the same position.
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Speaker 2: You have fifty sixty pounds worth of stretch.
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Speaker 5: Like Kenneth Drank came out later, massive human being Kenneth Quick needs two podiums. John, He's he's so big, He's a Dexter Lawrence size of player. Then you have a guy like Walter Nolan who came out he's two eighty five. So it's just different guys at different sizes that I think it's it's dark when you see him kind of stand next to each other.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've got to talk about a dual Carter as well.
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Speaker 6: If dul Carter spoke to the media today, he said, you know, without a doubt, I believe I'm the best player in this draft class, and the best players should be drafted number one. He is very confident, thinks he should be drafted first overall, thinks he brings the most value. And you know, he talked about how, hey, listen, defensive players bring as much value to a team as quarterbacks do, saying that he wants people to be more real or to realize that a bit more and saying, yes, a lot of the focus is on the quarterback and on the impact of that position, but he wants people to realize the talent that he can bring and the amount that he can change your roster.
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Speaker 2: And this is one of the deepest positions in the draft.
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Speaker 5: To edge and defensive tackle that's kind of be the majority of the players picking the top one hundred and so it was good to kind of get a feel.
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Speaker 2: For those guys today.
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Speaker 5: You know, you feel that I was unhappy to get And I don't mind telling you this because all of our of viewers know how much I.
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Speaker 8: Love Nason Graham. When you see him and talk to him.
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Speaker 2: In person, yeah, it's.
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Speaker 8: Not the guy you see on tape now you see.
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Speaker 6: So often though, that's the case, right, well, uh, he's the great supermersive physically either, like he's not like, yeah, exactly.
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Speaker 2: His tape's awesome. He looks more like Clark Kent than he does Superman. Right, Well, he puts on the cape when he goes on the.
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Speaker 5: Field, and when he does. When he's on the field, the motor is incredibly hot. Yeah, he can't be blocked. He's violent, he's vicious, he's fast, he's energetic.
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Speaker 2: Almost as energetic as made.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Well, I don't think we own anyone as I don't know.
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Speaker 6: That's a that's a high bart assent drink cafe.
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Speaker 5: When you talk to him, he's like, all right, what about all shucks?
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Speaker 2: He's almost like Shaggy from Scooby Doo.
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Speaker 5: The references already show well, come on, Scooby Doo's not that old and they're still making new Scooby Doo. So yeah, right, good stuff. Appreciate the time, and all right, let's take a quick time out. Paul Shorts from the New York Post will join us next right here on Big Boo Kick Off Live, presented by CAT Live.
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Speaker 1: That's a thread.
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Speaker 4: I love it fair.
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Speaker 9: I fell in love with the Giants. I saw lt you wanted a touchdown back when the Detroit Lions.
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Speaker 2: Passed down, so simples.
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Speaker 3: My dad's guy from generation, you know.
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Speaker 2: I was like to generation, you're your espression.
00:05:19
Speaker 1: We are from New York Giants.
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Speaker 3: We got some cilantra, so on yours some carrots.
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Speaker 10: Giving back to the community means a lot, just to keep giving hope that you know, you're just living in a situation.
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Speaker 11: The situation doesn't define you.
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Speaker 3: So I got.
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Speaker 5: Thank you.
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Speaker 11: There's little things like that, just to keep encouraging guys.
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Speaker 4: Back.
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Speaker 2: You're a Big Boo kitt golf I presented by Cadillac.
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Speaker 5: The Giants NFL Combine coverage is presented by the Hospital for Special Surgery, the world's number one in orthopedics, choose Better, Move Better HSS the official hospital of the New York Football Giants, Schmelt Detina. We welcome in Paul Schwartz, who's covered the Giants. Technically is forever accurate or no? For the New York Post tech, I.
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Speaker 2: Don't think technically is forever is a technical term? Spiritual life. I've just completed my thirty first year. Give thirty first? Huh it's really my thirty first Yes? Pretty good? All right, So you've heard many GMS talk and say things.
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Speaker 5: Give me your take on what you heard from What was your main takeaway and thing that you had at top of mind, more specific than just quarterbacks. Where you walked away from Joe Shane's thirty minutes or so with the media on Tuesday, Well, it's almost.
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Speaker 12: Hard to separate quarterbacks. I mean, there was so much talk about the quarterbacks. Look, when a guy comes behind a podium in a microphone, you are either talking from a position of strength or a position of weakness, I think, for the most part, in.
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Speaker 2: Any in politics and sports, in life.
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Speaker 12: Right when you are asked to be behind a microphone, what position are you coming from?
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Speaker 2: Joe Shane is coming this year from.
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Speaker 12: Position of weakness as far as three wins retained his job.
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Speaker 2: But it's it's you know, everyone knows the deal. No, it doesn't even have to be spelled out.
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Speaker 12: You need to do better. You know, the whole operation needs to do better. So there's there's not a bravado. There's not a real sense of great confidence. I think there's a real concern that they know they need a starting quarterback and they're not sure they can get one, that they want a real good one because of where they are in a draft, because what free agency is, because whether Matt Stafford gets traded or not. So I don't think it's I think it's a it's a real tenuous situation.
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Speaker 2: I really do.
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Speaker 12: I mean, I think Joe did well. I think his attitude was good. He didn't you know, he said, look, everyone knows a depth chart.
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Speaker 2: We need a quarterback. We need two of them, and not just any quarterback.
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Speaker 5: And I think that's the I think you make it to the point, Paul where it's not like, all right, we'll need a guy that they can play on there and start for seventeen games. They need somebody that can and Joe's kind of mentioned this when you talk about the drafted players, but I think it applies to the free agents too. You want a quarterback that can elevate the other people around you, and that isn't just going to be elevated by the talent around them.
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Speaker 2: You want. They want a quarterback that's going to raise the ships.
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Speaker 12: They want a good quarterback who can win games and be their franchise quarterback. You know, whether you want to say, you know, your definition of a good quarterback is he can elevate the round them. This my definition could be he wins games, you know in the fourth quarter. You know, yes, whatever it is, are you a.
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Speaker 5: Truck or your trailer. They want a truck. They don't want a trailer that's going to get dragged along the way.
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Speaker 2: We all know what they look like.
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Speaker 4: We all know what they look like.
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Speaker 12: And as Joe said, one of his good lines is, you can't just go pick one off the franchise quarterback tree. You know, there's put it this way, there's thirty two teams in need. You know, so every has a starting quarterback, right how many? Seriously, Paul, let me ask us how many are there in the league or potentially in the draft who you would say, I want that guy.
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Speaker 2: Well, let's put it this way. I'm going to go and tell you this.
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Speaker 7: Somebody said to me the other day there were probably ten teams in this league right now who would like to upgrade their starting quarterback, and there's not enough to go around.
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Speaker 12: In this officer, I think I think ten might be a loone number. To be honest with you, I mean you shuffle, you know, you shuffle the chairs, you know what I mean. This guy's not good, but we'll try him over here. This guy failed here, you know, Sam Donald, but we'll try him here. Wow, that was a great success.
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Speaker 4: See.
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Speaker 12: The problem with that is the Sam Darnold model almost doesn't exist. There is no model where a guy fails well, fails and then comes back and is spectacularly good for a long segment of the time that you can't you can't bank on that to happen with these guys.
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Speaker 2: It's hard.
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Speaker 7: There were riverboat gamblers who will tell you, oh, why don't you take a shot at Zach Will Why don't you take a shot at Trey Lance, Why don't you take a shot at Justin Fields, who haven't exactly done a whole lot of really great things in their early tenure in the league.
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Speaker 12: Well, you know what, you have to take a shot, but but you have to have backup plans to Look, the Giants are in a position right now where they have to do anything and everything they like.
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Speaker 2: He said, I believe in taking swings. He didn't say it.
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Speaker 4: I believe to go up there and bunt.
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Speaker 13: Right.
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Speaker 2: You're a big baseball guy, right.
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Speaker 4: Remember when bunting used to be.
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Speaker 8: A big thing, right, you know, in other words, she's going to be Reggie Jackson?
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Speaker 2: And is it just you?
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Speaker 5: And it wasn't just take one swing, he said, swing taking sep taking swings.
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Speaker 12: And you know what, I didn't always believe that that philosophy. But with the Giants, you have to. You can't just say this is my guy, I'm going to ride with him. You say, I'm taking this guy and I'm bringing this guy in. I'm bringing this guy in and hopefully one of them hits, and if they don't, we got to bring in other guys.
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Speaker 2: You have to find one.
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Speaker 5: So this is where I am now, and I think this is where it gets a little complicated, and then we'll pivot off a quarterback. Well elsewhere free agency comes first, right, Yes, And I thought the interesting thing that Joe talked about is that you kind of have to figure out now in the next I guess what it's today, Wednesday, So twelve days, what the draft looks like at quarterback, who you think you can get, right, and that's going to impact what you can do in free agency, right, Like, if they conclude in twelve days that neither should Doore or cam Ward or anyone else.
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Speaker 2: If they think can be the.
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Speaker 5: Giants franchise quarterback, well then they have to be more aggressive in free agency, more aggressive on the trade market. But if they believe one of those guys can be it, and maybe they have enough discussions with Tennessee where they feel confident they can manage a trade up or something like that, then maybe you don't have to be as aggressive in free agency.
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Speaker 2: So I imagine, and I have not talked anybody.
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Speaker 5: Paul, they're probably gonna try to get both quarterbacks and for thirty visits next week would be my bet, just so they kind of get in front of them and get their evaluation done. How do you think that's going to go in terms of their aggression level next week in terms of really figuring out what they're going to do a quarter because the clock is literally ticking.
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Speaker 3: Yes.
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Speaker 2: On an ideal world, you would have the draft.
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Speaker 12: And then have free agency. In this particular case, right, if you can't get them, then you sign one. That's not the case. That's not the way it works.
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Speaker 2: What do I think? I think that they will not know? You can't know.
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Speaker 12: I mean, are the Titans in Brown's gonna quietly go to Joe Shane and say we're taking a quarterback without taking a quarter They cannot know that. All they know is there at three, right, and the top two.
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Speaker 2: Guys there's no guarantee they will be there.
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Speaker 4: And I don't know this.
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Speaker 12: I don't know if the top two guys are really the top one guy. I think I think there is a top one guy. I agree with you, Okay, I think there's a top one guy. By the way scam Ward.
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Speaker 2: Talking to people this week, that seems to be what they can do.
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Speaker 12: And so there's no way the Giants can be confident that they can stay in three and get him.
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Speaker 2: They cannot know that. They will not know that. And so I think the phrase I heard is bird in the hand.
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Speaker 12: Yeah, right, exactly, wait right, So you know what, Here's what happens is the worst case scenario is the best case scenario is you get one a free agency, right, there's not a lot of them, but you get one who you feel I can win with him, with some help, I can win with him, and then the draft shakes down in a different way.
00:13:17
Speaker 7: You know what.
00:13:18
Speaker 2: Take them, Sorry, Paul Ilied, I have to do one follow up.
00:13:21
Speaker 4: Take them.
00:13:21
Speaker 12: How about the trade market? Well, the trade market is Stafford if he's available. And you know that's that's the thing of it. We don't even know if he's available. We don't know if he's available.
00:13:31
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, let me ask you two guys right now, right now, you had to bet one hundred dollars. Is Stafford with the Rams next year? Yes? Probably not? I think no. You know why, just because there's too much of this. There's too much. I mean, they it is very loud.
00:13:49
Speaker 7: I heard and the Lambs were to shut this down quite a ways ago and emphatically if it was not going to happen.
00:13:56
Speaker 2: The only thing is them saying, well, okay, you can go search a deal. See you're worth out there.
00:14:00
Speaker 4: That's my point.
00:14:01
Speaker 12: And maybe he comes back and says, yeah, you're you're right. I can't get fifty, so I'll come back to you for whatever it is. Look, it's not the ideal fit for the Giants. He's thirty seven years old. He's also would be unquestionably the best quarterback they've had since Eli Manning in his prime.
00:14:20
Speaker 4: He just would be not even close, not even close.
00:14:22
Speaker 12: I mean he's I mean Matt Stafford, and his prime was better than Eli Manning other than you know, two playoff runs. So you know they have to find someone to win. This whole operation needs to win. They're coming. They went from nine to six to three. I don't know if any of us were math majors here, but I sense that is a depreciating scare right there, and that cannot continue.
00:14:47
Speaker 7: All right, Paul, let me go for a second to Giants free agency. You know, Jason Pinnock biggest name on defense, Darius Slayton's biggest name on offense. What do you suppose is going to happen to those guys?
00:15:00
Speaker 2: Greg van Rod in the mix there too, is he was a starter, all right, you could.
00:15:03
Speaker 4: You could.
00:15:04
Speaker 7: So how do you suppose the Giants deal with those guys? Or do they have holes to fill? Because those guys will go away?
00:15:10
Speaker 12: Well Joe Shane mentioned a few times about right guard, and you know that Van Roten, you know, you know it's inching. Joe basically came out and said, we have four starters coming back, right That's what he said.
00:15:23
Speaker 2: We have four starters coming back. We have one whole actually said that since the end the deseason. Yeah, So my sense is they will sign a right guard.
00:15:30
Speaker 4: That is my sense.
00:15:31
Speaker 2: That they have money.
00:15:32
Speaker 12: You know, they're not going to sign one for twenty five million a year. They will sign a right guard. I don't think they're going to go in and stay in house with that. They tried that already. They'll sign a Runyon esque right guard. Will be my impression, maybe slightly less that that's my sense, could be wrong. So I think as far as the wide receiver, they love one Dale Robinson obviously, Molik neighbors, so I think that is a that's a third receiver. It just seems to me kind of the Darius Layton's time kind of it just seems like it should be over. I mean they brought him back. I mean he's had more lives already. And I love Darius. I think he's a great player, not a great player. I think he's a great guy. I think he's a very solid wide receiver, but you know what you're getting with him, and it seems to me that he probably would be better off going somewhere else, how about you know, and by the end of the year, didn't you feel that. I felt it that one year where he said, remember when he sat in his locker after a game and he said, it's exhausting. It's exhausting to have to answer questions about why we only scored ten points and we didn't have this many first downs. So he probably should go to a team with a more dynamic passing offense. I would welcome him back, certainly.
00:16:38
Speaker 2: Pinnock.
00:16:41
Speaker 12: You know, at this time last year, we were speculating about Xavier McKinney, right, and they were not going to go into that market. I think if you mentioned to Joe Shane Pinock, you know what, I think he would say, Nuban.
00:16:52
Speaker 2: I think he would say, we got a safety. You need two of them now, I know you do.
00:16:55
Speaker 12: But I think they think nuben is an emerging leader to Betty got hurting me at the end of the year. I mean, I have no real conviction on whether they bring Pinnoff back. I really don't give you an equation on this. I think they could with like a veteran guy. Now Pinnock is sort of a veteran, so I get Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker 7: Well, I found it interesting that last year, you know, Belton was in the mix and yet in spring training or spring training, I'm obviously summer caseble. Well the bunting thing got you crazy, I know it really did. Yeah, but he could not seize a starting job because Pinnock and Nubin were just too good. So Belton had to continue being the third safety in the mix.
00:17:36
Speaker 5: Well, I think that's probably a little disappointed to them, and that probably would also tell me that perhaps they don't want to take a gamble that they may have to rely on Belton and therefore go out and get somebody.
00:17:48
Speaker 12: You know, that safety position has always been one of those positions where you sign a veteran. You're right, you sign a thirty year old veteran, a twenty year veteran, a wise head, the.
00:17:58
Speaker 2: Logan Ryan's of the world, you know, I mean the Giants have done this for years.
00:18:01
Speaker 12: They signed a guy, he's kind of a he's a good player, but he's a good team You know, the the the you know, he's just a good team guy. You know that that that's the center field, the type of thing. I think it would be good for Nuban. I could see them doing that.
00:18:13
Speaker 3: You know.
00:18:13
Speaker 12: That's what Joe Shane thinks of that spot. He doesn't think of signing a guy for big, big money. Sign a guy who can come in and play, be a good player. You know, then you have Belton is the third guy. I mean, that would be my guess. I mean, I don't know if Pinnock did enough last year to say we definitely want to resign him.
00:18:31
Speaker 5: How do you think you're going to address some of their holes on defense? Corner and the other defensive tackle spots specifically, are those, you know, I think you have to bring in a veteran corner. I don't know if you want to throw another young guy in that room in a room full of also very young guys, uh, and then defensive tackle for that spot next to dext Laura trying to be better against the run.
00:18:48
Speaker 12: Well, we talked about this earlier off camera, that this is a draft of defensive tackles. So you can get one in the you can get one in the third round. Who would be could could likely start for you. So that's a good thing.
00:19:02
Speaker 4: Corner.
00:19:02
Speaker 2: Well, if Travis Hunter's on the board, you want to bring in a veteran corner. If Travis Hunter's on the board and you know, the quarterback.
00:19:10
Speaker 12: Situation is extinguished, he's only like a you know, generational prospect. Now, I'm not buying the returner and receiver a part of it. I don't think they're drafting a guy a cornerback number three and then telling him, oh, by the way, go return punts.
00:19:26
Speaker 2: That ain't happening.
00:19:27
Speaker 12: But he's a damn good cornerback, right, and so I mean he comes in, he changes your defense dynamically. So veteran good Travis Hunter, as long as you have a quarterback. Paul, good stuff, my friend, Always a pleasure.
00:19:39
Speaker 5: Paul Schwartz of the New York Bos will come back with Charles Davis and NFL Network when we return.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: You gotta get pated up.
00:19:49
Speaker 9: Let's do it.
00:19:49
Speaker 3: Wow, what a kid's ridiculous?
00:19:52
Speaker 4: Alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, all right, I'll show you my.
00:19:57
Speaker 3: This is my badgerer. I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm freaked out.
00:20:03
Speaker 5: A Hey, Ryan Reynolds, here we are you what kind of piece of show is this.
00:20:10
Speaker 2: That's what happened on Kimmel.
00:20:12
Speaker 11: Here too, and I finally got an invitation, so thank you.
00:20:18
Speaker 2: Well, you know we're here to race though. Yeah, but we're not going to race this car.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: Oh no, kill kill.
00:20:40
Speaker 1: Hey, how are you.
00:20:44
Speaker 11: Okayvon?
00:20:45
Speaker 4: Nice to meet you.
00:20:46
Speaker 14: For me, it's just a blessing to always be that impact for somebody else. I always say, try to be somebody to somebody. So when I go, I want my feet in my hands to move just as fast.
00:20:55
Speaker 7: Right.
00:20:55
Speaker 14: It's been great getting to learn a lot of getting me a lot of kids. It kind of reminds you where you used to be and you have the impact that people have in your life.
00:21:02
Speaker 3: There you go.
00:21:04
Speaker 4: I think we have a tremendous impact on them, just being able to bring him.
00:21:07
Speaker 14: A smile on the day and be able to, you know, really interact with him and.
00:21:09
Speaker 4: Get to know him everyone more.
00:21:11
Speaker 3: Hey, you know, really getting to step back and enjoy the moment. Can't take us five four sean, we got three thirty five?
00:21:24
Speaker 4: What all right?
00:21:27
Speaker 5: We're back here on Big Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillact, the official luxury vehicle to the new York Giants, Smoke Patino, bring in friends of the program. Charles Davis. You know him from NFL networking, of course, is great work calling NFL games on the weekend.
00:21:38
Speaker 2: Charles, how are you man?
00:21:39
Speaker 4: I'm great. It's great to see both of you again. Love the way you worked at MIC. I mean that is pretty strong right there. Well that that is no gene rayburn long stick MIC like that. That's the real deal.
00:21:50
Speaker 2: Right now, I have some backspasm, so so they lean forward is not the best?
00:21:54
Speaker 3: Take me.
00:21:57
Speaker 4: And maneuver where you want to. These things look like the original cell phone. Remember those big bricks?
00:22:03
Speaker 5: Oh wow?
00:22:04
Speaker 4: Remember those? You remember those bad boys and ten people had them and you knew if they had them, they have money.
00:22:10
Speaker 5: Yes, all right, all right, so Charles, today we talked to a lot of the defensive linemen, the edge players, and the linebackers. What's your overall takeaway from the group. This is one of the better groups at those two spots that I've seen in a while. I mean you could look at probably a third of the first hundred guys off the board I think could come from these position groups.
00:22:30
Speaker 2: Your thoughts with someone in one on ones you did with them? On serious X time today.
00:22:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's exactly what you described. Did you remember last year when wouldn't we get our first even to wear at fifteen?
00:22:40
Speaker 3: Yeah?
00:22:40
Speaker 2: I think I lost you right right, Yeah at fifteen and then.
00:22:43
Speaker 4: We're gonna be waiting out long this time, big people, fast people, strong people. Was interested? Is that Duel Carter is obviously the number one edge guy right coming out of Penn State, and you guys, I mean Penn State is essentially like for the longest time, it's like New York State's college team. You know, I know the people's Syracuse. I don't want to be upset with me, but Penn State dominated that cycle of Syracuse was playing ketchup during that time frame. This kid coming out of Fenn State, Hey, where's eleven like Parsons did. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you he's Michael Parsons, but he's as close to it as they've had because they've had pass rushers a Dafeo way.
00:23:21
Speaker 13: Remember he was.
00:23:21
Speaker 4: Jason Oway coming out. You remember his senior year, Yeah, zero sacks? Right last year, Chop Robinson came out dynamic, excellent player, had a really good second half of the year. I thought was Miami. It's like four and a half, right, And I was always wondering, Okay, how come we're not translating this talent into those numbers like I usually the numbers in college show up. We don't have that problem with a duel Carter. Okay, that problem is not an issue. Twenty three and a half pro tackles for lost twelve and a half sacks. He's getting the numbers and everything going with it. There's the reason he's number one pass rusher in this draft and for some people, the number one overall player in this draft.
00:24:04
Speaker 7: Now, if he's the number one guy, and I agree, everybody obviously feels that way. In terms of the front, Mason Graham has got to be the guy who's right behind him at number two when John knows how much I love him. But I will tell you something, Charles, after seeing him at the podium in person, he doesn't look as imposing, sound is imposing, he doesn't seem as energetic.
00:24:25
Speaker 2: But look at the tape, the tape.
00:24:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, and thank goodness we have the tape right, Because we always talk about guys a little good on the hoof guys come off the bus first, right, Who was that kid we had out of Maryland a bunch of years ago. The Raiders took him for was it Bruce Campbell? Remember he had to Monster Combine here and the whole deal had not played really well in college.
00:24:47
Speaker 7: Turned out he didn't play really well in the NFL. But boy did he look the part. Look like Tarzan, plays like Jane. You know something Bracelle's always used to say.
00:24:55
Speaker 4: But with Jane, but with Mason Graham, I don't care because just what you said, you turn on that tape and what his his punch and heavy hands. He's just ruining people up front, like people are taking blows and wrestling background low center of gravity, plays with leverage. And the one thing about those wrestlers, they are so used to one to one on one combat and they don't like losing. Give me Mason Graham all day long. I don't care what he looks like up there. I don't care how I look. He's a kid I want because I've seen it on tape for all these years.
00:25:30
Speaker 2: To Tyree Wilson, the other guy that really told right.
00:25:34
Speaker 4: Has not produced yet for the Raiders, hoping he can have a breakout, but he has not been lived up to his draft status as of yet.
00:25:40
Speaker 5: So I think the interesting spot is after you get past Abdul Carter. I think there's a really good discussion as to who the next guy up is. And what I like about this zitchclass, Charles, is that you have guys that are shaped a lot of different ways.
00:25:54
Speaker 2: They really are.
00:25:55
Speaker 5: Jamar Stewart, it's a two hundred and eighty five pounded Donnas yep, right.
00:25:58
Speaker 2: Then you have Mike.
00:26:00
Speaker 5: You had a Marshall who's a smaller two hundred and fifty pund guy just SIWs.
00:26:02
Speaker 2: Stewart's even smaller than that. So you guys that are kind of different cheaps and sizes. Some have productions, some don't.
00:26:09
Speaker 5: As a rocker with great production, not the biggest guy Stuart like one and a half second, like his whole college career.
00:26:14
Speaker 2: But he's the guy is he's gonna blowup the.
00:26:16
Speaker 4: Come by and he looked at it. He's gonna look the part and you're gonna have to go back and watch tape again and try and answer your question, how do you why did we not get more? It's a tough one. Is it's a minefield that you go through. Would it be as simple as say as those general managers like the draft on trades, they will fall in well with a lot of the trades guys have and those who like to draft on production. We have the production guys as well. Be interesting because you remember when Trayvon Walker went number one overall instead of Aid Hutches, and that was very much a trades versus production.
00:26:48
Speaker 5: Sure, dude, I'm not gonna lie like Shamar Stewart's going to test and look just like Chevon Waller.
00:26:52
Speaker 4: And he's gonna look the part. And who's going to be the one that goes there? That will they go there instead of the so called productive guy. That'll be interesting to watch because the last last thing I'll say is when Joey Bosa came out. Remember the big conversation was he's clearly this guy, this guy, but has he topped out and is he twitchy enough? And is he this?
00:27:14
Speaker 2: And people start to put all this doubt due before Joey, before Joey.
00:27:18
Speaker 4: Bosa ran in a few injuries, Joey Bosa was getting you twelve a year.
00:27:21
Speaker 5: It was the same thing with Aiden Hudginson, by the way right conversation, and I take the hit on that because that was one of the guys.
00:27:26
Speaker 2: I'm like, he wins the same way with his hands every time. Where's like the bend and the person doesn't matter. He as a monster.
00:27:31
Speaker 4: We used to have that discussion inside with Gerald McCoy versus a Dominican Si. Oh wow, remember everyone wanting that one? Everyone want everyone won on that one.
00:27:42
Speaker 7: This is a good question specifically for you, Charles, because you do cover the NFL and you do cover college football as well. There's always that copycat stuff, and right now everybody is so enamored with the trenches and the Eagles defensive lines. Is that why we are now putting a greater spotlight And Mike was scope on this defensive tackle class and maybe noticing.
00:28:04
Speaker 8: Their positive traits more than we would have otherwise.
00:28:08
Speaker 4: I think it's a great point. I think that it has been helped by what we're seeing with Philadelphia. I think really it should have been a reminder that we all should be thinking offensive defensive line anyway. I don't know why we're getting away from that to begin, but I think that you're right. The other part is last year we had six quarterbacks go in the top twelve, and none of us were surprised by that. This year we are not. So guess what other position are gonna get much more emphasis? But I think it's well taken what you're saying. Philadelphia's created that. Hey, who are these big people who're bowling people up and knocking people back? Look, Joshua super Bowl it should pay off handsomely for him.
00:28:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Milton Williams.
00:28:49
Speaker 4: Milton Williams now has jumped up and then you know, all these guys had that type of a game. It makes you go back and go okay, but you got to be somewhat careful because remember Larry Brown in the secondary with his Super Bowl Oh wow, got paid big money.
00:29:04
Speaker 5: Was Washington to right off of his Super Bowl MVP right or the two fumble cooveries whatever out of that game?
00:29:09
Speaker 2: I mean, same deal.
00:29:10
Speaker 4: That's that's what happens sometimes. And I'm not saying they were bad, but what happens is you get that type of a contract. Now, maybe you can't play to that love I got the Super Bowl bump happens all the time. Happens a second round defensive tackle Charles which which is one of the give you give me a peck guy who you really like.
00:29:26
Speaker 5: From this defensive tackle group on day Tube. Is that a lot of help in that spot? Okay, I got my notes. This Caldwell kid.
00:29:35
Speaker 4: Out of Oregon, jam Mary called a big boy. Hey's something, But did you see you see his movement?
00:29:43
Speaker 2: This kid's got.
00:29:46
Speaker 4: Right, He's got a little something that goes right there.
00:29:48
Speaker 2: Right, I was right taking these notes.
00:29:49
Speaker 4: The kid that played next to Mason Graham's Ken's grant, Oh boy, you go player too?
00:29:55
Speaker 3: Now?
00:29:55
Speaker 8: All right up to Johnny takes up two podiums.
00:29:59
Speaker 2: He looks like ex Lawrence. Right, that's what he looks me.
00:30:01
Speaker 4: He's a big, massive guy. Speaking of massive walker Dion Walker from Kentucky.
00:30:10
Speaker 5: Have you seen can you give me twenty twenty three Dion Walker instead of twenty twenty four d?
00:30:14
Speaker 2: And then I'm all in.
00:30:15
Speaker 4: Right, we would all like to be in But you see why.
00:30:19
Speaker 2: You fall in love.
00:30:20
Speaker 4: It's not just a size. He'll throw that spin. He'll throw a spin move on you when he's at his best. I watch him in the Senior Bowl, chase a play out into the flat and try and make him play out in the open field. Sometimes if you don't have that year that you want, and you come back the next year, right and now, you're into Senior Bowl. Now you start to see it.
00:30:39
Speaker 2: Again, right.
00:30:40
Speaker 4: I play with Reggie White at Tennessee. I was lucky enough to be in the secondary of my freshman year his senior year. It all came together because he was a senior. It had to happen.
00:30:48
Speaker 2: Now it all.
00:30:49
Speaker 4: Worked, and we were like, go if we could have had that Reggie for the first three years. But also remembers college kids, you have to grow. You have to go through some things. Sometimes you have things that we'll never know about to take you out of your game a little bit. Someone said to me today, if your work and life balance is not in tune, I don't care who you are or what age you are, it's not gonna work. Sometimes there's things going on with these kids we just don't know about. But I liked him. I will say this, Have you guys seen Jordan Phillips Maryland?
00:31:19
Speaker 2: I like talk about seven minutes that I.
00:31:23
Speaker 4: Love sitting and talking to you guys because you guys always have the guys down and it's nice for me to bounce some stuff off. And he's the most physically imposing guy. He's really not move right. He plays upfield right, and I'll leave you with this. I don't know what round he's gonna go, but I am so curious about Taka Hemingway at South Carolina. Have you guys seen him play wildcat and then back when you get a chance, plug in the tape and watch him do some wildcat stuff. Typically at that size, when you play wildcat, you take the ball and you run behind big people and you try and create rubble. Right, this kid's jumped on people. I kid you and tell me I'm wrong. I watch There's one time when he went on a fake punt. He was on the end.
00:32:09
Speaker 2: He went out for the past covered on the pass.
00:32:12
Speaker 4: The guy throws the ball anyway, he throws a ball out and calls it in. That's insane. So I want to see the rest of it. Now. I saw some stuff on defense, but I'm just saying athletically, he's gifted.
00:32:23
Speaker 7: Security wants to get you out of here. Brid On Travis Hunter corner receiver. Come on, you know that both both sides of the fence.
00:32:31
Speaker 4: He can go either way. For me, I have no problem with that. He's gonna choose one. He's gonna have to because he'll be able to play the other in spots but he can't play the full time. It's just it's a different league, Chuck bit Neyrick's not walking through that door anymore. Roy Green, it's just a hard, hard go Now. I really shouldn't turn him down because he's proven me wrong before. But I just think the best thing for him pick one, be a master of it and go. I don't want him to be in the spot where he's just trying to go back and forth too much. Once he mastered, he can do it. I think ownership, most ownerships no want to play receiver and.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: Isn't he gonna do isn't he gonna want to do that too? Because of the contract.
00:33:07
Speaker 4: I think people want to see kid that kids score touchdowns and put butts in the seats and have better attention for them.
00:33:12
Speaker 2: I want to corner truck. I know, listen, listen, you.
00:33:15
Speaker 4: Think I want it.
00:33:15
Speaker 2: I like his corner tape better.
00:33:17
Speaker 4: I like his corner tape a lot. I think his receiver tape is really good. But I think he's going to be I think he's going to be a receiver. I think whoever drafts him now, some people may like him at corner, but I really think when ownership gets involved if you have active ownership, I think they're gonna want him to play receiver.
00:33:32
Speaker 2: Charles.
00:33:32
Speaker 5: Enjoy the rest of your day and you can check him out of NFL Network. He's on Serious at seven in the morning. He's gonna have all the Combine coverage on the workouts all that this week.
00:33:40
Speaker 2: Check it out. We'll be back with more after.
00:33:41
Speaker 4: This hr Johnny.
00:33:42
Speaker 3: We got three thirty five max space.
00:33:44
Speaker 2: We got X post.
00:33:45
Speaker 3: Okay, here's the post signal. I get you give me a good fake right behind me. See, I got you all right? What it did?
00:33:52
Speaker 2: I decided there?
00:33:54
Speaker 3: Oh, he looks, he looks, he's open. Go get it, go, get it right. Let's go.
00:34:11
Speaker 5: That was awesome.
00:34:12
Speaker 3: Prey route money, that was money.
00:34:15
Speaker 6: I think it just scattered.
00:34:18
Speaker 11: That was awesome.
00:34:20
Speaker 3: Let's go across the Lions.
00:34:29
Speaker 9: It's a thread, a love affair. I fell in love with the Giants. I saw l T wanted a touchdown back when they put the Detroit.
00:34:36
Speaker 2: Lions passed down. Phil Sims was my dad's guy from Generation Yeah.
00:34:43
Speaker 1: That was like to generation Yeah, we are the New York Giants.
00:35:03
Speaker 3: We got some cilantro so onones. So carrots.
00:35:08
Speaker 10: Giving back to the community means a lot, just to keep giving hope that you know, you're just living in a situation.
00:35:14
Speaker 11: The situation doesn't define you.
00:35:16
Speaker 4: So I got you.
00:35:22
Speaker 5: Thank you.
00:35:22
Speaker 11: There's no things like that, just to keep encouraging guys.
00:35:31
Speaker 2: Three two one, all.
00:35:35
Speaker 5: Right, we're back here on Big Boo Kickoff Live, brought to you by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the Giants at the Combine, Indianapolis. Thanks you all, Davis Medical, Nework for joining us. Jeffer Sickima slide in here in just a second and we're gonna do a little offensive line dB stuff with them. Paul, do you ever really touched on those groups a ton yet as we've kind of talked about these positions, as as we've had the conversation. All right, Trevor, are you ready to do your Chris collins Worth sliding impression?
00:36:00
Speaker 2: I got you go that.
00:36:01
Speaker 3: There we go.
00:36:02
Speaker 2: He got this smooth.
00:36:04
Speaker 15: I've got a lot of ive got a lot of practice, but watching the boss Man, so our guy, Trevor Sikhima from Pro Football Focus, you have the I'm not we only got fifteen minutes with you.
00:36:13
Speaker 5: I don't want to list all the podcasts that you host because I feel like I might run out of time.
00:36:17
Speaker 2: Do you want to give us, like just like the people a feature for what they should check.
00:36:20
Speaker 15: Out any of the p f F NFL shows, the PFF Draft Guide, and then of course the NFL stock has changed podcast as well.
00:36:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, we uh, we're gonna have your boy Connor on the next couple of days. There we go, And I'm sure you've been getting a lot of top of the draft up. We're gonna take a little deeper with you here today, Sere. And I'm I'm sure you like doing that. So you want to go, oh, line first, Paul, And do you want to go cornerback?
00:36:36
Speaker 2: What do you want to do?
00:36:37
Speaker 5: Well, let's go corner first. Let's go corner not the best class to cornerback? Why do we start the top though? We just asked Charles Davis this. If I gave you your druthers and there was no mitigating factors, Travis Hunter see a corner or a receiver for.
00:36:49
Speaker 2: You, he'd be he'd be a cornerback for me.
00:36:52
Speaker 15: And that's and that's because I think that his ability is more rare at the cornerback position. Now, it's actually kind of funny because I've been having these conversations with people over the last couple of days. If Travis Hunter wants to go number one overall, I think if if he were to be just viewed as a corner, that actually hurts his case right with Whereas if he was a wide receiver, I think he might actually have the case at going number one overall.
00:37:15
Speaker 2: That's why he's.
00:37:15
Speaker 5: Gonna be a corner and also play twenty snaps at wide receiver. That's what I think he should do. You know, It's it's funny just going through the positions the way that we do. I go through full scouting reports for wide receiver before I get to cornerback. And I watched Travis Hunter just as a wide receiver, and I watched him I win. And I was somebody who during the season the whole time, I said to myself, he's a corner.
00:37:35
Speaker 2: I think he's a corner. I think he's a corner.
00:37:36
Speaker 15: Then I watch him and hit his full scouting report is a wide receiver, and I go dang. I liked him a lot of wide receiver, so I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna have his high of a grade. And then I watched him full time at corner. I went, all right, let's CV one. He's CV one for me in this plast He is that talented. I think he is that good. He brings you true rare ball skills. He's got the long arms to him. But just more than all of this, Travis Hunter does not get as much credit as he deserves for how high IQ of a football players.
00:38:04
Speaker 2: He is such a smart football player in my opinion.
00:38:07
Speaker 15: He understands the game at such a high level at both of these positions, and I feel as though the longer that he plays, the more that he plays, he will only get to that level where he just continues to master perhaps both of these crafts. But I think certainly at the cornerback position he can be one of the best corners in the NFL.
00:38:22
Speaker 5: Paul's gonna do more corner if he was just the wide receiver, Is he your wide receiver?
00:38:27
Speaker 2: One over Ted McMillan, he's not. I would have me either. I'm with you, I would have Ted. I would have Ted over Travis. But it was funny.
00:38:32
Speaker 15: I was just talking to Sam Monson, who was with PFF and now he's the thirty third team. He asked me, He's like, who's your wide receiver one and I said it's Ted, and he's like, I would have Travis, and I was like, okay, very interesting. And he even says some guys that I've been pulling around Indianapolis say that they would have Travis Hunter as their wide receiver one. I'm still a Teed McMillan wide receiver one guy, but he's a.
00:38:51
Speaker 5: Little unrefined with the rat running Travis, which is which by the way, he's playing one hundred twenty stats a game.
00:38:56
Speaker 2: He's exhausted. Of course, your rat running is not going to be that precise. I get it.
00:38:59
Speaker 15: Yeah, which is fine, But again, like I just t is, Ted's pretty rare to me, Like it's really hard for me to not get hyperbolic with the comps that I would have for him, Drake London, Mike Evans, AJ Green, right with Tetro McMillan. It's hard to not think of those guys when you watch him play. So that's why he's still my wide receiver one now.
00:39:20
Speaker 7: When John and I first started talking about the draft a little bit after the Giants season was over, Initially my first glance was that Will Johnson would have to be the second corner and.
00:39:30
Speaker 5: I love this guy, and I even said to John he'd be like top five for me. But then as I looked a.
00:39:34
Speaker 7: Little bit more, I saw that maybe there was some sketchiness there. Yeah, how do you feel about him? Is he generically the number two corner on most people's boards?
00:39:44
Speaker 15: I think he's probably number two on most people's boards. He's corner three for me. So I just did a lot of cornerback reviews. Haven't done all of them, but I did it for about fifteen sixteen of these guys.
00:39:53
Speaker 2: I have John A.
00:39:54
Speaker 15: Barron the corner from Texas above him, so I have him as CB two. I have Will Johnson as CB three. You know, just going off kind of what you were saying there. I also had Will Johnson very high, top five player in the class going into the season. And the reason why is because when I watched Will Johnson listened at six foot two to two hundred pounds, he's got the long arms.
00:40:11
Speaker 2: I said to myself, Okay.
00:40:12
Speaker 15: This is a man coverage, you know, cat coverage type of defender where you go, hey, just don't let that guy catch the ball, and he could be able to do it.
00:40:19
Speaker 2: I liked a lot of the reps.
00:40:20
Speaker 15: I saw against Marvin Harrison junior when they played against Ohio State, and so that gave me a lot of faith that he could be a great man coverage type of defender. And then I watched a lot more of this year and a couple of games last year as well, and I went, hmm, I actually think he's.
00:40:34
Speaker 2: More of a zone cour A lot of easy stuff gets caught in front of him.
00:40:37
Speaker 15: I think he is much more of a guy where I think he's most comfortable keeping his eyes on the quarterback, keeping his eyes on the ball. I mean the pick six is sort of speak to itself of him being very comfortable and confident in more of an off coverage role, whether it's a Cover three role, whether it's a quarters.
00:40:53
Speaker 2: Role, whatever it is.
00:40:54
Speaker 15: And so with him not being as dominant as I thought he was in man, it's why I said, Okay, well, I think he's a little bit more of a zone heavy corner, which is fine, but it opened the door for me to say, I actually think I like John A.
00:41:09
Speaker 2: Barron a little bit more, even in that similar zone corner role.
00:41:12
Speaker 5: And yeah, he's more of a slot too. Baron, right, did you see him an outside guy? To see him as like I have a slot safe old combo.
00:41:17
Speaker 15: So you know, three years ago he's playing safety for Texas. Two years ago, he's playing as that nickel defender. This year he plays wide corner. I was I was very shocked when they said he was going to play wide corner going into this year because I thought he was a slot he could genuinely play outside. Now, I really do think that he has that total versatility to be able to play inside and out. I mean, like, you know, just if he were to be a New York Giant, let's just say, the versatility that you would have between him and Drew Phillis would actually be the fantastic fun both of those guys being able to play inside and out.
00:41:47
Speaker 5: So just a thought, just a thought, And then I feel like there's a pretty big gap once you get past those two guys to the next.
00:41:53
Speaker 2: Group of corners. Do you agree with that?
00:41:55
Speaker 5: And what do you think of the guys in that next group and when value might be for those cover it off the board.
00:42:01
Speaker 15: I'm a Trey Amos guy, guy from Ole, miss I think that he's pretty dang good.
00:42:07
Speaker 5: I do.
00:42:07
Speaker 15: I think that he's got scheme versatility to him, and he's got long arms, he's got the build that you would want to potentially be able to play a lot of press coverage stuff at the NFL level. I think he is more comfortable and more impactful as that off zone coverage defender, but very high forcing completion percentage over the last really a couple of seasons when he's been out there, but really this year was his first full.
00:42:26
Speaker 2: Time being a starter there. So I'm a big Tray Amos guy, So.
00:42:29
Speaker 15: I would say it's definitely those Big three, and then I would probably put Amos maybe almost in a tier of his own, and then we get into some of the other cornerbacks.
00:42:38
Speaker 2: After that, you get into a little bit more scheme focused.
00:42:41
Speaker 15: Guys man coverage corner zone coverage corners rather than these guys that you think might be able to do it all as first rounders. But I throw Trey Amos in there is that back end of the first round guy who's pretty skim versaal see.
00:42:50
Speaker 7: It seems to me last year's cornerback draft was much deeper than this year's. I mean, with the Giants got Drew Phillipps last year. Look, he's done good slot quite right, you're not finding somebody of that ilk that deep in this year's.
00:43:04
Speaker 4: Draft, are you not?
00:43:04
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
00:43:05
Speaker 15: I mean, it just sort of depends, like I immediately when you think, when you say, hey, who would be the Drew Phillips of this year? I wonder if Maxwell Harriston's that guy from Kentucky, right, guy who could play inside out for you. He's kind of that projected second third round pick. But you know, sort of to your point, it's only one of those guys, right, only one team sort of gets that caliber of a player. So maybe a luck out and get a player like that the way that the Giants were able to when they got him on Day two. But there's just not a lot of There's not a lot of value overall, I think at the cornerback spot. So it is a little bit more of a sort of pick your preference, pick your scheme, if you will, with.
00:43:38
Speaker 2: That position this year as opposed to last year. All right, let's go.
00:43:40
Speaker 5: Into your offensive line, okay, which features a bunch of guys that played offensive.
00:43:44
Speaker 2: Tackle in college.
00:43:45
Speaker 5: And I guess that's kind of my first question for you is that how many of these tackles in the end are going to end up being guards and what's the sweet spot for trying to find that spot.
00:43:56
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think it's a really great question because you know, if you were to ask that question in a different way. Somebody asked me earlier today, is like, Hey, we talked about all right, this offensive tackle.
00:44:04
Speaker 2: Maybe he is a guard. Maybe he's a guard, maybe he's a center or whatever.
00:44:07
Speaker 15: And then he's just straight up asking me, He's like, who's just a tackle? Like, who's just a tackle in this draft class? I think it's two to that come to mind immediately. We actually three I think to come to mind immediately. Ozzie Trapelo from Boston College. I think he, you know, just to build the length everything the experience with him at tackle. I think he is a tackle only type of a guy, but more of a guy that's a Day two selection rather than a first round selection. I think Brendan Crenshaw Dixon from Florida playing a right tackle spot played at San Diego State as well. I think he could be a guy who is just viewed as that right tackle type of a player.
00:44:40
Speaker 4: And then the other one is he's a project.
00:44:41
Speaker 15: But Cam Williams from Texas on the opposite side, of Calvin Banks. He's just straight up built like an offensive tackle. You really wouldn't I don't think move him inside because he's got such great length, such great size, But the technique is all over the place for him. He believe led the country and holding penalties this year, so definitely a learning curve needed for him. But those three guys, I mean, Will Campbell, Kelvin Banks, even Josh Simmons, armand Membu.
00:45:07
Speaker 2: Right, all these guys you could say maybe Rosary.
00:45:11
Speaker 15: Yeah, all these guys I think you could say, like could be guards or centers.
00:45:16
Speaker 5: Even Connorly A lot of people see as the potential guard instead of being a.
00:45:19
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think he's I think he is one who it feels like he'll stick a tackle in the league. But I do agree with you. When I first watched him, I wondered if he was going to be an inside.
00:45:29
Speaker 2: Guy squatter, which he kind of has that look a little bit more of.
00:45:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:45:33
Speaker 7: How about a thought on the most versatile lineman Zabel Most guys think can play any one of the five positions. Now, does that versatility in some ways help him or in other ways does.
00:45:45
Speaker 2: It hurt him?
00:45:46
Speaker 7: Because if he had concentrated on one spot and team said, you know what, he's going to be a great this, they might draft him higher.
00:45:53
Speaker 15: I actually think that it mostly helps him, and certainly to what you're talking about. I think there are examples in different draft classes in different years where you could look at these players who you probably know they're going to kick inside a little bit. But then, like you said, if you haven't been mastering that position, there's going to come a learning curve with you. But when I watched Zabel play as a center and a guard at the Senior Bowl and how well he played it, and how well his footwork and his grip strength and his core strength all translated so quickly to those positions, I genuinely believe we should be talking about Grayzabel the way that we talked about Graham Barton last year. And Graham Barton went twenty six overall to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Yeah, that is what I think of grays year, right exactly. And he it was the same thing. Graham Barton played left tackle for Duke for two or three straight years and then he moved into center. He had played center a little bit when he was a true freshman at Duke, but it had been years since he had done that. Immediately goes to center in the league to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Zabel has been playing offensive tackle the last two years with North Dakota State. I think he'll immediately become a center in the NFL. But I believe that we should be talking about those guys in similar draft range in a similar light.
00:47:03
Speaker 5: All right, how about the guard only So you talked about how few tackle onlyes are who are the guard only Is that that you like because the Giants do I have haven't need at that spot, and it potentially could be a Day two target.
00:47:11
Speaker 15: Yeah, it's you know, it's it's a lot of players who are gonna be much later draft picks. I think a lot of the guard only guys are probably a lot of Day three guys. But Tyler Booker is the one that's at the very top of the draft from Alabama. You know, he's the guard only player.
00:47:26
Speaker 5: Knava Jackson too, right, don't see him as or do you see him as a guy that could swing out the tackle?
00:47:31
Speaker 4: I don't.
00:47:32
Speaker 15: I think that he was playing there out of necessity from Ohio State, and it was a little bit like a Joe Toney situation where they go, hey, we're gonna coach you up on the technique and we're going to teach you how to sort of like cut off speed rushers. But at the NFL level, I don't I don't quite see him as like an Elijah VERA Tucker type of a player with the New York Jets, where it's like, Okay, here's a guard and we could play him at tackle in a pinch.
00:47:50
Speaker 2: I think that he is much more of a guard there.
00:47:52
Speaker 15: You know the Georgia guys doing Fairchild, Tate Ratlicche, I think both of those guys are guard only type of players.
00:47:59
Speaker 2: They're as well, you know Jered Wilson.
00:48:01
Speaker 15: I know we're talking about a different position here, but I feel like he I think he can have a little bit of versatility to him.
00:48:05
Speaker 2: He's got some great athleticism.
00:48:06
Speaker 15: But like those two guys Luke Candra from Cincinnati, I think these are again like guard only types of play out there.
00:48:12
Speaker 2: How about the Fraser the guard out of LSU, Miles Fraser.
00:48:15
Speaker 15: Oh so, I was not a big fan of Fraser coming into this season. Thought he played much better this year.
00:48:22
Speaker 4: I really do.
00:48:22
Speaker 15: I thought that he that he put his best foot forward this season. I do think that he is a guard only type of a player, but it was his best year. I thought of the years that I had watched he was good at mobile too.
00:48:32
Speaker 4: He was I also think that his teammate Emery Jones.
00:48:37
Speaker 15: A lot of people sort of went into this year and they were like, Oh, look at LSU's offensive tackles. Will Campbell Emery Jones. They've been starting since they were true freshmen. That that pairing of offensive tackles. And I remember watching Emory and I was like, I think he can play, but I just don't think he can play at tackle. There was much more of a guard for him, and I think you start to mitigate a lot of the weaknesses if you stick him inside the guard.
00:48:58
Speaker 2: So that's what I think about it.
00:48:59
Speaker 7: We believe the Giants are going to go for offensive line depth, and we kind of think it might be on the interior because obviously at the moment they don't know Van Roten's coming back, and they may have a hole at right guard. But I want to ask you, because you mentioned you love Zabel so much in North Dakota State, how about Jay Coopis last year who came out Giants grab him as an undrafted rookie free agent, and the coaching staff loves this kid.
00:49:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, to the point where.
00:49:24
Speaker 5: He even got into the lineup at the end of the season. Where does he compare to the third and fourth round guards in this draft? Should we be thinking more about him?
00:49:34
Speaker 15: Well, I think that the answer to that comes down to was just talking about this with somebody earlier today. When you have undrafted free agents that hit, it is the fruits of a really good scouting process, because in order to hit on an undrafted free agent, you have to have continuity between your scouts, between the coaches, and between the front office to be able to make all these things happen. Because when you get when you get to undrafted free agents, you're either a little small, a little slow, don't have the strength, something is holding you from being a drafted But if you can make an impact, that means that they gravitated.
00:50:13
Speaker 2: Towards likely the football player that you are.
00:50:15
Speaker 15: So all of that to kind of get around to your question that to me would all come down to, do you believe that one of these guys who you would draft in the third, fourth, fifth round has the mental makeup that's the same as an undrafted free agent who's able to crack the starting lineup. And if you do, then yeah, I think maybe you start talking about it in similar light. But if not, then you probably lean towards the guy that you already have on your roster that you know can outperform where he was drafted or wasn't even drafted.
00:50:42
Speaker 5: Final question, regardless of position, where do you think you're gonna find some players on Day three?
00:50:47
Speaker 4: Here?
00:50:47
Speaker 5: Around four, five and six, we're guys gonna be left on the board where you're gonna be cooking with the guy that maybe you can think about starting a year or two.
00:50:53
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think it's hard not to just say the defensive line because there's just so many good defensive linemen. I mean, I think of guys who are going to be Day three selections just because there aren't enough picks in the top one hundred, you know, like an Anius Peebles from Virginia Tech.
00:51:09
Speaker 16: A A.
00:51:10
Speaker 15: Antoine Powell, Ryland from Virginia Tech, CJ. West from Indiana, camp Orsley from Boston. I mean, so I like the fact that like Stackhouse is obviously coming from a big time program, big time defensive line. I think he's going to be an end of day three type of a guy, but obviously somebody who might be able to fill at a roster and be a preferred practice squad player for you, just because he's coming from such a good programmate.
00:51:36
Speaker 2: Brinton.
00:51:37
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean, like Brint, I just swore those guys are sort of in the same light, but like, yeah, there's just there's so many of those guys in this class where I even look at my own rankings and I go like, I can't be this low on him, can I? And then I, you know, I was scrolling a little bit above and I was like, oh, I wouldn't put him over this guy. Wouldn't put him over this guy. And it's just that is how deep edge rushing intier defensive line is this year.
00:51:58
Speaker 2: Good stuff, my man, or joy the rest of your week.
00:52:00
Speaker 4: We'll talk you.
00:52:00
Speaker 5: So I appreciate again, ever thinking aboutro football focus, Jorda read when we return right here on big blue.
00:52:04
Speaker 2: Kick off line to look up, you got to get patted up.
00:52:09
Speaker 5: Let's do.
00:52:10
Speaker 3: It's ridiculous.
00:52:12
Speaker 7: Alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, I'll show you my r This is my fachurer.
00:52:22
Speaker 3: I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm freaked out.
00:52:26
Speaker 2: Hey, Ryan Reynolds here, where are you? What kind of piece of show is this? That's what happened on Kimmel.
00:52:32
Speaker 1: Here too, and I finally got an invitation, so thank you.
00:52:39
Speaker 2: Well, you know we're here to race though, Yeah, but we're not going to race this car.
00:52:41
Speaker 4: Hold on.
00:52:55
Speaker 5: Back you a big blue kick off line presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle than New Your Football Giant Smoked Patino owed by Front of the Programs Jordan read from ESPN.
00:53:02
Speaker 2: Jordan howay Man.
00:53:03
Speaker 13: Good, Happy to be here talking New York Giants football and some.
00:53:06
Speaker 2: Draft prospects as well.
00:53:07
Speaker 5: So we had a long conversation a couple weeks ago on the Giants Total podcast talking about.
00:53:10
Speaker 2: The Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl.
00:53:12
Speaker 5: But now we're gonna get the taste to everybody this week, right, and let's start.
00:53:16
Speaker 2: Does all the Giant fans want to hear about it?
00:53:18
Speaker 5: Are the quarterbacks at the top? I know you're more of a Cam Warre guy than the ship guy. You're on the same page as Paul and I in that regard. How do you see that position playing out in the draft this year? As you talk to more people here in Indiana and kind of get a feel for what that marketplace might look like.
00:53:33
Speaker 16: Yeah, it'll be interesting. Of course, it starts with the Titans at number one overall. So whatever they elect to do, and what.
00:53:38
Speaker 13: You're hoping if you're the Giants, is that one of the two teams at the.
00:53:41
Speaker 16: Top they go with the abdu Carter just because that will leave them with the quarterback at number three overall, whether it's cam Ward or show door standards. So as of right now, still don't have word as far as which way the Titans are leaning. Right now, we probably won't find out until the card it's turned in on draft day. But if you're the Giants, you're crossing your fingers that Abdu Carter go somewhere in those top two picks.
00:54:00
Speaker 5: Well, I want to follow up real quick, Paul, do you have enough of a gap I do between Ward and Sanders or you think, all right, if it cost me to choose to move up a couple spots to one, that you would pull the trigger beause, Look, the Titans, if they go down to three, they can still get one of the top two talents in the draft, whether it's Abdul Quarter or Travis Hunter right, So that to me makes sense for Tennessee. It would make sense for a team like the Giants if you know they don't get a veteran in free agency, however that ends up going on, Would that be worth the bang for your buck? Do you have Ward enough of a gap ahead of Sanders for you? Yeah?
00:54:30
Speaker 4: I do.
00:54:30
Speaker 16: I mean I will be comfortable doing that if I'm the Giants, just because you're in desperation situation right now with the quarterback spot and you have to find a way to get a young quarterback. You cannot escape this draft without a young quarterback, assuming they don't go to the veteran route. So whatever the price tag is now, you don't want to overspend, of course, But if the price tag is reasonable for you to get yourself in range to get one of the two at the top, or even trade up to the number one overall pick to get cam Ward, I would be comfortable.
00:54:56
Speaker 2: Doing that, Jordan.
00:54:57
Speaker 7: We know the teams at the top are doing infinitum research on the QBS.
00:55:02
Speaker 4: They can even tell you how many eyelashes they have on each eye.
00:55:04
Speaker 7: Okay, that's the way it goes these days, right, But what do you think the odds are that a team's grade or portfolio on one of these top two qbs is going to change between the meetings here at the Combine, the pro days, you know, the visits. Do you think there's gonna be much movement or do you suspect everybody's pretty much locked in as to who they think one should be and two should be.
00:55:28
Speaker 16: Well, I think things are always gonna be fluid, especially when you're talking about quarterbacks.
00:55:32
Speaker 13: Just because they still have to do board work here at the Combine.
00:55:34
Speaker 16: They're gonna take them through private workouts as well with the top thirty stuff, so that'll give them another opportunity to add some more stuff to their draft portfolio. So I think they're not locked into anything right now, just because the process is so fluid. They really haven't even met either one of these guys right now.
00:55:49
Speaker 7: The reason I ask you that, though, is because most of the people who say cam Ward say there's a gap, And if there's a gap, chances are Sanders on those boards isn't going to be able to overtake him.
00:56:02
Speaker 13: Yeah.
00:56:02
Speaker 16: Well, from our side, of course, just because we're not gonna be able to sit down and actually go through an actual formal meeting with these guys, So most of our stuff is just tape and then you know speaking the sources and you know scouts within the league and how they feel about them and just asking them questions how was their meeting? So for me, like I said, there's still a gap between the two, but it is always fluid as an evaluation.
00:56:23
Speaker 5: All right, Jordan, this is the last thing on the quarterbacks, then we'll move on to other stuff going into this, I would not feel comfortable with three. I gotta be honest with you picking Sanders over Abdull Carter or Travis Hunter.
00:56:35
Speaker 2: I just feel like there's a huge.
00:56:37
Speaker 5: Gap for me there in terms of how the players are graded. So if I'm the Giants knowing that you might not have access to cambored like that. Just like last year they tried to move up to draft the quarterbacks Somes, you just can't do it. They have to walk away in free agency that with the quarterback they feel good about starting Week one, so you don't get put into a position in the Dragon.
00:56:54
Speaker 2: Now, maybe the Giants will have Sanders rank that high.
00:56:55
Speaker 5: I don't know how they view him as a player where you have to take a guy out of a tier and move him ahead of a potential awesome player just because he needs the position.
00:57:05
Speaker 16: Yeah, Like I said, they got to figure out a way to come out of the with the quarterback. Assuming, like I said, they don't go the veteran route. But let's say they do sign a veteran. Now that puts you in position to take a Travis Hunter or an abdu Carter or somebody like.
00:57:18
Speaker 2: And then their our quarterbacks later that you could pick the developer.
00:57:20
Speaker 13: Yeah, there is, you know it is Kyle McCord.
00:57:22
Speaker 16: I like him as a developmental guy, depending on how you feel about Jaylen Melrowe and his ability to become more.
00:57:27
Speaker 4: Consistent as a passer.
00:57:28
Speaker 16: Tyler Schuck is somebody that a lot of people in the league really like a lot as well, And even though they may not have the upside of those other guys, maybe you go the veteran plus a young quarterback route.
00:57:37
Speaker 7: The Giants have made it clear about their priorities, right, get the quarterback, Enhance the defense, especially the rush defense, help with depth on the offensive line, and they need more depth of corner.
00:57:48
Speaker 4: Yep.
00:57:48
Speaker 7: Now, knowing the depth of the draft, especially at defensive line defensive.
00:57:53
Speaker 2: Tackle, would you be more inclined.
00:57:56
Speaker 8: To draft a couple of those guys and maybe look to free agency or trade for the other spots.
00:58:02
Speaker 16: It just depends on how you feel about this defensive line class. I feel great about this year's defense, like everybody absolutely loaded. So and I've said the same thing about running back as well, Like even though you don't need or have a need at those positions, take one anyway.
00:58:15
Speaker 4: That's how loaded this year's draft class is.
00:58:17
Speaker 16: And they obviously haven't needed defensive line, so I'm sure they're gonna select one, whatever pick it may be, So they need a defensive lineman, and I will not be hesitant at all.
00:58:26
Speaker 13: It's a fickle on, especially in this year's crop.
00:58:28
Speaker 2: What's the sweet spot for corner? Like, at what point do we fall off of cliff and you're like, all right, we're in trouble here.
00:58:34
Speaker 5: What's the sweet spot for finding a guy that you can that can help you specifically on the outside.
00:58:37
Speaker 2: Because I think they've really seen Drew faulps as their nickel once.
00:58:39
Speaker 16: We get into like the fourth round, That's why I'll get it, just like a precipitous drop off after that, just because round two is really where I have a big cluster now, Benjamin Morrison of Notre Dame, Maxwell Harriston out of Kentucky, Azariah Thomas out of Florida State.
00:58:56
Speaker 4: He's another.
00:58:56
Speaker 16: So there's a lot of guys in that cluster of second round right now, and now they could differentiate themselves out of that cluster.
00:59:03
Speaker 4: Just because we still have the combine to go.
00:59:05
Speaker 16: We have a lot of meetings to go as well throughout the process, but right now there's a huge clump.
00:59:09
Speaker 13: Of guys on Day two.
00:59:10
Speaker 7: Now, I don't suspect the Giants will be looking for a tight end, but in your recent writings for ESPN, you've listed tight end as one of the top three positions in this draft.
00:59:20
Speaker 5: Specifically, it's more of the receiving tight ends. It seems that that have, you know, kind of made their mark in this draft. Would you think that they're that good that maybe you just take one anyway at one point during this draft because they could be that good.
00:59:34
Speaker 16: You can never have too much depth at any position in football, no matter what it is, and even if you don't have a need, just take one anyway, just because we just saw the Philadelphia Eagles stacked resources that defensive line and it's paid off for them. So even though you may not have any I like THEO Johnson, I was a big fan of film yeah coming out, But maybe they go with a blocking tight end like a Jackson Halls out of Georgia State. Excuse me, Georgia Tech. That's a really good player.
00:59:56
Speaker 4: CJ.
00:59:56
Speaker 16: De Free out of Alabama that's another good player as well. So even though you may not have an immediate need, go ahead and take one. Even though you don't have an immediate need there, how do.
01:00:05
Speaker 5: You cheer out this top group of players, like I see it as you of your two right, Carter and Hunter, they kind of then you give a gap.
01:00:14
Speaker 2: How big is your next group?
01:00:15
Speaker 5: And then how massive is like the third tier where you have one team of a guy at eighteen, another team has like fifty.
01:00:22
Speaker 16: So there's three blue chip guys in this draft class. To me, you mentioned too already and Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter. But I see Mason Graham, thank you. I think he's a franchise altering defensive tackle. And you know he's not physically He's not gonna look as impressive as some of these other guys.
01:00:39
Speaker 5: Which is why I have him at the top of my next group. By the way, he's blockable.
01:00:43
Speaker 16: He's not gonna be that guy you pick up first in a pick up basketball game. He's not gonna be the first pick in that. But when you turn on the tape, he just beats everybody.
01:00:52
Speaker 2: He's great.
01:00:53
Speaker 16: He just beats everybody. So those will be the three blue chip guys and this year's draft class. To me, after that, it's a little bit of a drop off after that. But once we get into like the third or fourth round in this year's draft class, that's where things get a little bit sketchy.
01:01:06
Speaker 2: How many guys? How many guys you have like top ten in any draft class? In this group?
01:01:11
Speaker 5: Is it just those top three? And then everyone else would be out of the top just those top three you be very different then, right once you get past those top I mean, you know, Will Johnson has an argument of the corner out of Michigan. He has an argument to be top ten across multiple drafts. But those three blue chippers at the top, those are the three in this years draft class.
01:01:27
Speaker 7: So many times we come out here and we're talking about the wide receiver class. Nobody's really talking about the wide receiver class.
01:01:34
Speaker 13: This two we've been spoiled the past few years.
01:01:36
Speaker 5: Is that because that they were that good and they've kind of warped our senses of how good these guys can be.
01:01:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's all it is.
01:01:44
Speaker 16: We've been so spoiled with really great receiver classes over the past four or five years or so. We've seen guys go top ten, top fifteen consecutive years. But this year there just isn't that Markie talent like we've seen in years past. And I like Tedlorrod McMillan the receiver Arizona, right, but there's not a lot of people that see him as that bona fide top ten or top twelve, top pick, that type of pick right now. And there's other players that I think are more so wide receiver twos on the next level, like Luther Burton the third out of Missouri and Mecca Obuka out of Ohio State, Matthew Golden out of Texas. A lot of those guys are glorified wide receiver twos on the next level.
01:02:21
Speaker 5: Do you think you can find of what besides those guys are startable, you know, good solid wide receivers on day two, do you think they're gonna get pushed up because it's shallower at the top.
01:02:30
Speaker 16: I mean, I think we'll see a run on those guys, probably somewhere. I would say in between pick sixty and pick ninety, so probably late second, early third rounds.
01:02:40
Speaker 2: Like the Iowa State guys will be in there.
01:02:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, yeah, like Jaydon.
01:02:43
Speaker 16: Higgins out of Iowa State is one that we've talked about plenty. I like Ricky White out of UNLV. He's probably more so of a round three, round four.
01:02:50
Speaker 4: Pick, but they're good at the TRINB. Yeah, he was absolutely terrific.
01:02:53
Speaker 16: But there's a lot of depth if you're looking for wide receiver towo or wide receiver three types of this hear.
01:02:56
Speaker 8: And what I like about it too, Jordan, is that a lot of these receivers are six feet six'.
01:03:01
Speaker 5: One.
01:03:01
Speaker 2: Yeah this is not a draft for shrimpy you, know slot wide.
01:03:06
Speaker 4: Receivers.
01:03:07
Speaker 16: Yeah as a former, quarterback trust, me we always like those, big tall guys that even though you may throw an inaccurate, pass they can just tower over everybody and just go up and get the.
01:03:14
Speaker 5: Ball we don't have position value rules to day in THE nfl these, Days, Jordan, right but because you have so few players at premium positions at the top of draft boards in this year's.
01:03:25
Speaker 2: Draft are we gonna see tight, ends running? Backs you, know maybe?
01:03:28
Speaker 5: Safeties you, Know Min warri is a guy we even talked, about yet kind of get pushed up a little higher than they normally would in the draft because there are not enough premium players at the top of these draft.
01:03:37
Speaker 16: Boards, YEAH i think this is gonna be a really unpredictable first, round and that's starting at number.
01:03:42
Speaker 13: One, overall we don't know who's gonna go number.
01:03:44
Speaker 16: One but with there being so much questions after those top three guys that we talked about a little bit, Earlier we're gonna see a lot of players that maybe were prejicted to go in the back end of the first round that could go even. Higher that's WHY i said there's gonna be so much unpredictability with this. Draft this is draft class just because there isn't a lot of bona fide guys that we know or blue chippers like we saw last.
01:04:07
Speaker 7: Year can you get it feel at all for how MANY nfl teams look At travis hard who you have number, ONE i believe on your board more as a? Corner how many think more of a, receiver and how many think going, in you know, what we're gonna have some substantial snaps for him on both.
01:04:23
Speaker 2: Sides of the.
01:04:23
Speaker 16: Ball, well it just depends on who you. Ask, honestly there's gonna be a mixed bag because it's.
01:04:27
Speaker 4: Changed third is.
01:04:29
Speaker 16: Split AND i, mean just listening to some of THE gm interviews that were sharing their opinion About Travis, hunter there was a lot of people that SAID i would start them at. Corner there are some other people that SAID i would play them at wide. Receiver but it's a good problem to have JUST i would put them at. CORNER i would play them at corner full, time AND i would sprinkle him in maybe twenty to twenty five plays a game at wide. Receiver just because outside Of Troy brown when he was playing For, Belichick i've never really seen anybody that's been a full time receiver but part time at. Corner in a lot of part time corners that have played sparingly at wide. Receiver SO i would feel more comfortable in that. Aspect AND i KNOW i wouldn't sleep on his return, skillsah not at.
01:05:07
Speaker 4: ALL i think he's. RARE i, Mean i've said this to.
01:05:10
Speaker 16: Everybody the only comparable, player And i'm going to continue to use this comp for, him Is Champ bayley when he was coming out Of georgia in the late. Nineties you're the only other player to average over one hundred snaps during his career and he's wearing a gold jacket right. NOW i Believe Travis hunter has that type of rare.
01:05:26
Speaker 5: Ability last one for, Me giants need a, guard a right guard, specifically they have a hole there on their offensive. Line who are maybe some of the day two guards that you? Like starting at thirty four The giants pick that should be in the mix from that, round there's a.
01:05:38
Speaker 16: Couple Jonas savana out Of arizona is one THAT i like quite a. Bit he has experience at right guard and right, tackle play primarily right tackle last, year BUT i view him as a guard on the next. Level Mry jones is the guy that's probably late second early third round pick out OF. Lsu he's another that played right, tackle BUT i believe he's a guard on the next. Level so those are two names THAT i definitely would key in.
01:05:57
Speaker 2: On awesome, Grit, jorydan good, stuff my.
01:05:59
Speaker 5: Friend the rest of your, day you can find anything new coming out on THE espn this Se SO i.
01:06:02
Speaker 16: Have my mock draft coming out Next, Tuesday march, fourth post, combine so it'll be two rounds as.
01:06:09
Speaker 13: Well So i'm excited to share.
01:06:10
Speaker 5: That, okay WELL i want to. GO i want to go inside that real, quick and THEN i know you got to. Go how much of that is done?
01:06:17
Speaker 16: TODAY i have not started it at. All it's all going to be What i'm hearing from. HERE i don't ever start MY, mi my mock draft THAT i are published before or after the.
01:06:26
Speaker 4: COMBINE i should SAY i always, WAIT i always, WAIT i always wait To So monday is going to be a long.
01:06:31
Speaker 2: Day is going to be a very long, time very good joind of good. Stuff stay tuned More Big boo Kick Off fly presented By. Cadillac when we, return.
01:06:40
Speaker 3: We got Some cilantro so, onones some.
01:06:45
Speaker 10: Carrots giving back to the community means a, lot just to keep giving hope that you, know you're just living in a.
01:06:51
Speaker 11: Situation the situation doesn't define.
01:06:53
Speaker 4: You SO i got.
01:07:01
Speaker 11: Like that just to keep encouraging.
01:07:02
Speaker 5: Guys all, right we're wrapping Up Big blue kig Goof live presented By. Cadillac The official luxury vehicle the giants right here at THE Nfl combine In. Indianapolis Schmelk datino with, You. Paul busy day at the podium, today long. DAY a bunch of defensive tackles did not come out that we wanted to talk. To hopefully we'll get them. Tomorrow, yeah and that tends to happen at this, time saying they get backed, up the guys run out of time before they can come. Out so you and a couple guys you wanted to kind of talk about today that maybe fans want to hear about.
01:07:34
Speaker 2: It AND i got a couple guys, too and then we'll wrap things.
01:07:36
Speaker 4: Up.
01:07:36
Speaker 7: WELL i mentioned my story About Mason graham, early BUT i Think Jordan phillips said Of maryland interesting give and. Take and this is part of that intangible stuff why coaches and scouts say they want to meet with guys because you can see what you can see on, tape but when you meet with guys sometimes you find a little bit more about them as a. Person now this doesn't mean a whole, lot and it won't necessarily tell you where he gets, drafted but it's an interesting take on. Him in about the ten years or so That i've been coming to the combine with. You, john it's roughly about that long eight. Years whatever it, IS i have never seen anybody ever. Say while he was getting questioned at the, podium and this is a quote now he goes he was being fired at by a whole bunch of. People he always said, yes sir to every single, question Which i've seen some people.
01:08:28
Speaker 2: Do but here's what was.
01:08:29
Speaker 7: Unique at one, point a guy and a lady reporter both fired off the same. Question he actually, said hold, it, SIR i apologize. Ladies, First i'd never seen.
01:08:43
Speaker 5: That why we're trying to talk over a woman. Reporter, no it wasn't, Me it WASN'T i actually was. THAT i saw that it was very.
01:08:51
Speaker 2: Polite he. Was he went out of his way to be super, polite super.
01:08:57
Speaker 5: Respectful and you, know these guys are twenty twenty one maybe twenty two years, Old, john and when you see, that it.
01:09:07
Speaker 2: Does tell you something about.
01:09:09
Speaker 17: Them seems like a really nice, kid seems like an, awesome awesome. Guy and he is, thick and he is stout like a fire, hydrant and he can play and he's very. ACTIVE i got a feeling that he's going to impress a lot of the people who talk to him in terms of his.
01:09:24
Speaker 2: INTANGIBLES i enjoyed talking To Ashton jilot out Of. Louisville kind of a, versatile you.
01:09:29
Speaker 5: Know he said he sees himself as a three to four defensive, end but he can be a four to three defensive. Tackle Olo Femi, oladejo who used to be an middle inside linebacker and now was an edge. Player massive, frame that. GUY i would love him as a second round edge in this. DRAFT i think he's a lot of upside.
01:09:43
Speaker 2: Still at that.
01:09:43
Speaker 5: Spot David walker small, SCHOOL i can't remember which, one but A fcs, program really small, guy but he dominated The Senior bowl and a small, stature but very. Impressive Jack sawyer is like central Casting midwestern backer, guy like literally central.
01:10:02
Speaker 2: Casting.
01:10:03
Speaker 5: Uh prince human Me Me layan is a guy THAT i enjoyed talking. To he was, fun really looks the part in terms of a guy he was at The Senior. Bowl did have a chance to talk to. Him Nick, scardon who's been one of my favorite guys in this. Process though his tape this year was, good so he's played at two eighty. FIVE i asked him he always looked little heavy to me on. TAPE i, said what's your target? Weight he goes to sixty? Five that's WHAT i am, now AND i go you played heavy then that already Goes, YEAH i play at twenty.
01:10:30
Speaker 2: Five he wanted me to play at like the FOUR i or five.
01:10:32
Speaker 5: Technique SO i wonder with twenty less pounds him if he's gonna be a lot more explosive off the.
01:10:37
Speaker 2: Edge so that was months.
01:10:38
Speaker 5: Ago, yeah, Right so he's dropped twenty, pounds So i'm curious to see how he tests today at a lighter. WEIGHT i think he might test very very, well which could push him into the first.
01:10:48
Speaker 2: Round DID i see you By Alfred collins or? No, yes he's a very large, man isn't? He, yes but in a good.
01:10:54
Speaker 5: Way now he's correctly yes He if you just do the eye test at the, podium that guy like checks every box from the eye test. Perspective James, Pearson Jalen, walker smaller, guys, Yes Jylan, walker smaller, frame but, man he is built, though like his upper arms and his shoulders and his chest very well picked again at your young, Man, yes, absolutely but not a huge. Frame jis here to remind me of slot he's he's, skinnier, slight, slight slight speed, rusher but he's a. Guy Uh Michael WILLIAMS i thought looked like the right frame for side. Backer he's had shoulder, surgery so he's not been a, Lift So i'm not going to judge How thinkey lots BECAUSE i think the shoulder probably has reduced that. ABILITY a lot of these linebackers are very, Small. Paul you, Know Jeffrey boss is like a converted safety From. Oregon but they're all smaller guys except For Jihad campbell out Of, alabama who looks like a defensive end to me in a linebacker's.
01:11:48
Speaker 2: Body he's going to test off the charts this. Week that's a GUY i think you can kind of keep an eye. On paul was very. IMPRESSED i did not talk to him at.
01:11:55
Speaker 5: All very.
01:11:56
Speaker 2: Impressive.
01:11:56
Speaker 7: Gentleman talked about how he models his game After greenlaw And, warner two very IMPRESSIVE nfl, players and specifically talk much about how he loves having the green. Dot he wants to be the guy to call the plays out there on, defense relishes that.
01:12:12
Speaker 2: Role that kind of caught me a little bit, Like, okay that's a good.
01:12:16
Speaker 5: Sign Darius alexander Av, TOLEDO a small school guy is someone THAT i enjoy talking. To HE i think not a lot of sack, production but his tape's really. Good he was great the senior. BOY i know you had a lot of, Fun so DID i catch it.
01:12:25
Speaker 2: Up with Toward.
01:12:26
Speaker 7: Cross always good to see Little howard as they call him at two hundred and eighty five.
01:12:30
Speaker 2: Pounds that's not so, sure he's, little but we're looking forward to seeing what he does in the.
01:12:35
Speaker 5: Draft, Absolutely, paul good. Times we'll be back tomorrow go at. Thirty check Out Giant total. Podcast Daniel jeremiah's up right. Now pearson will Get Ian rappaport on in a couple. Hours we'll get that. Up he is hard at. Work he's making it. Happen we'll have her playbook later on in the week as. Well we're gonna have a couple more insiders. Huddles it'll be a lot of. Fun make sure you stay tuned to The giants Dot, Com giants YouTube, Channel Big book, kickoff lot of the podcast, feeds the app all that. Stuff as we, continue you are coverage From indianapolis for our entire crew For Paul latino From. Madelenburg for all of our, GUESTS i Am John. Schmuck we'll see tomorrow twelve thirty for another live episode Of Big. Bill Kick off five on The giants app and streaming live on The giants YouTube channel
