Analyzing Characters with Sydney Pruett

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This week on the writer Con podcast.
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I think for me it would be having consistency and community,
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which are two of the hardest things I think for
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me as a writer as well. But the more consistent
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you can be in, the more of a writer community
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you have to help keep you consistent. That about our YouTube.
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Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
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share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
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hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of
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the Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award
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winning author of the Want lnd Files book series.
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Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
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us today. So here we are. You know, I'm going
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to talk about writer Con again. Only a few short
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weeks away. That's the annual writers conference we host at
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the Scurvin Hilton in Oklahoma City Labor Day weekend. That's
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August twenty nine through September one. Over sixty speakers, over
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one hundred sessions and pitching and contests, manuscript reviews, private consultations.
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What have I left out? Jesse?
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Just now been socializing, networking, and we make Jeopardy.
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That's right. We have fun as well. People are posting
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photos and scheduling parties and meetups on the conference app already.
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I know, Laura, did you tell me that people are
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This was a subject on the last podcast that we
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have a karaoke night and you and I always do
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a duet. So people are like doing a poll on
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that now or something.
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Yes, people are trying to guess what we will do
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it this year. So there's a whole there's a whole
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post any good dedicated just to that.
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Wow, what's in the lead? Do you remember?
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Yeah? Well, I'm not gonna I'm not going to share
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anybody's guesses. I want people to have to think of
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their own.
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Ideas, be creative. But it's it's great.
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The app gives everybody the opportunity to plan ahead. You
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can see what the schedule looks like, but you can
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also start to see what people Okay.
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I post your ideas in the show comments everyone, Jesse,
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have you been on the app yet? Have you taken
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a look?
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I have not. Writer con comes after a couple other
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things I have, so I'm waiting for those things to happen.
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I know, listen, people, listen. I just talked to people
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about audiobooks and podcasts. And just have a good time
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and hopefully this year run around less between rooms.
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Yeah I have. I told you that we're having six
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sessions on Saturday.
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Listen. As long as you put me in touch with
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the people controlling the rooms, we should be fine.
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So good. If you want more information about writer Con,
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it's writer con dot com. Our interview today is with
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Sydney Pruitt. Now this is a change of pace for
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us because you know, it's normally a writer, but Sydney
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is a therapist who works with authors to help them
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develop their characters so that they're more psychologically believable and interesting.
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She helps with writing about mental health or disability accurately
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and consistently, providing lots of information for nonfiction books, or
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making sure that fictional characters are responding to situations in
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ways that fit with that human psychology. Okay, it's fascinating
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and we will talk to her about this work. But
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first the news news story number one audiobook walking clubs. Yes,
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that's the thing they take reading outside. So audiobook listeners
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who like to walk need not walk alone. With encouragement
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from books to gram you know what that is. That's
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book clovers on Instagram like book talk for TikTok, but
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this is obviously Instagram anyway. The books to Gram entrepreneurs
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joined with independent bookstores and leadbroad dot FM. That's an
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app for audio books, and now they're creating audiobook walking clubs.
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So typically on one of these listeners meet at some
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predetermined location with an audio book queued up that they've gotten,
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you know, they bought or they got it on libby
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the library app, and participants listen to the book of
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their choice and or talk about it while they take
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a not too demanding walk a conversational pace. They wrap
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up someplace some and have a casual gathering where they
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can make or hear book recommendations. So people are coming
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month after month. They say. Word of mouth has been
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very positive and organic. This started with some influencers in DC,
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but now apparently they're thinking about expanding. Jesse, do I
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remember that you said you listened to audiobooks sometimes.
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No, I'm actually a very rare audiobook listener. I can't
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concentrate the way I would like to when someone's telling
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it to me. I know, it's very weird. It's say
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the work I do.
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So does this sound at all appealing to you?
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So Okay, let me get this straight. So people show up,
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they have an audiobook they're listening to. It's a different
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audiobook than what the rest of people are.
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Like, I guess, so, I mean it would be too
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regimented if everyone were listening to the thing.
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And then they walk for a I guess a predetermined
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time listening to their audiobook with other people.
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Listen.
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If it gets you out of the house and gets
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you walk.
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In, great, It's like a walking club, except for people
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who don't want to make conversations.
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Yeah, which, you know, listen. I understand there are people
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who don't want to make conversation. I do love the
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idea of collective book listening, but like reading for me
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is very like it's an intensive, one on one activity.
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I don't need to also be around people because I'm
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go'n feel weird and not having conversation with them. That
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might just be me, but but I mean it's a
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cool idea. This sounds very up the the same alley
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of another story I heard recently of people just doing
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collective scream outs. If you heard about this one start
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in Chicago. People just all show up at the same time.
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They go onto a bridge and they all just scream
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into the void together for like thirty seconds and then dissipate,
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and I'm like, that sounds great.
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So well, Lara, for a different take, I'm guessing I
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don't know how how much you listen to audio books,
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but I know you love to walk. Does this sound fun?
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Are you going to start one?
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I'm usually distracted with my bird identifying app when I'm walking,
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and I am a visual learner, and interestingly, like Jesse,
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I do find it a little bit difficult to stay
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focused on a a story when I'm just listening to it. However,
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not everything is for every person, and I absolutely support
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anyone who enjoys this gets them out, gets the moving
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they're enjoying a book I have. I have no problem
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with someone enjoying that. Spending time with people the way
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that is comfortable for them sounds good to me.
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News story number two, fan fic court controversy. I knew
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I couldn't say that without that's an US. Was that
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close enough? Do you want to do it?
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No?
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You fanfic court.
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Yeah that's a pre court controversy.
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It's a good uh mic test. Fan fic court controversy.
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Yeah, yeah, three times fast.
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Anyway, panfit, court controversy, fanfic, court cut, convercy, co conversy.
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I did not anticipate the direction this was going to
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take anyway. The news story is indeed about fan fiction.
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It's a book called Rose in Chain Chains, Rose in Chains,
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which is part of this increasingly popular form of book
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profitable too. It's fan fiction that's been previous for, written,
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previously written for something like what pads someplace people post
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and they can read it, and then they change it
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a little bit to avoid being sued by whoever it
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was originally about, or what it was based on, and
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then they publish it. And you know, everybody listening probably
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knows that fifty Shades of Grace started as Twilight fan fiction,
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and now we have those books after ever After, Happily
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ever After. That was originally Harry Styles fan fiction. Right,
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So now we've got Rose in Chains in Controversy. It's
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actually Harry Potter fan fiction. In this story Draco and Hermione. No, yeah, yeah, yeah,
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it's about Draco and Hermione finding love in a world
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where Voldemort wins. So it's but now it's changed. So
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it's an original fantasy romance between characters Toven and Briany,
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which is completely different. Okay, here's the problem, not that
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this really sounds too close for comfort, but because it's
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obviously Harry Potter fan fiction, people are attacking it, associating
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it with JK. Rowling and so the that she has
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made about trans people, and and so the argument they've
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advanced is that this book is keeping Rowling's work relevant,
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even though the author has never said anything controversial. She
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got online criticism because her book was once formerly related
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to Harry Potter. You see what I'm talking about. So
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she was scheduled for this convention, and then because they
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didn't want to court controversy, she dropped out, and then
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others dropped out in support, and pretty soon half of
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the authors so we're planning to attend have decided not to,
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which has been a nightmare for Romance. Colm Laura, you
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are the podcasts official Harry Potter news correspondence.
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Does this new title yes?
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Does this trouble seem fair to the woman Julie Soto
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who wrote Rose and Chains?
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In my opinion, no, no, it isn't. I don't think
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the work that she did should be torn down. There
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are a lot of people who still enjoy those books
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and have a lot of happy memories of those books,
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and I suspect for this author, that's what this story
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stemmed from. And it's unfortunate that it's being ruined in
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some way. And don't get me wrong, I don't love
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any of this stuff that's going off on the side,
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but for me, it is off on the side.
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I don't It doesn't take away the joy that.
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I had with my kids in those.
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Books, right right exactly, Jesse, what do you think is
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there any realistic way to separate the books from the author?
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I mean, first of all, yeah, it's fan fiction. It's
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literally not written by her, literally, and they've changed the
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characters and obviously didn't spend that much time on the
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names change changing the characters. But that's nothing yet Miami, Yeah,
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Jaco and h Jermione. No, like here, this is the thing,
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Like people have anger and they want to express their
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anger and something they express it in the wrong direction,
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and this is this is wrong, this is not This
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doesn't in any way hurt jk Rowling or stop people
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from spending money on Harry Potter things. So if you
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want to get mad someone, get mad jk Rowling, or
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get mad at Warner Brothers for remaking the movies into
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a TV show and then casting these people for ten
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year contracts, of which I doubt the show will actually
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make it that long. But you know who knows you
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be mad where you should.
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Be mad, nicely said, well done.
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All right, let's move on to Kraft Corner.
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Craft Corner. Everybody, it's John Myers from right Better together.
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And look who I'm here with. I'm here with my
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TC mile.
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Hello.
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Hello, I heard we're both going to be a writer
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con this year.
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Oh yeah, it's going to be fun. I'm prepared. I'm
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ready looking forward to meeting some of the most phenomenal
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writers in the region.
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It's wonderful, it is. And one of the things that's
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wonderful is that William Bernhard Bill likes to keep it
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always positive and so even like critique sessions, he wants
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there to be a positive slant. So every session has
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a positive slant, because sometimes you go to writers' conferences
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and it's like ten bad things.
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That you don't get that around.
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No, you can do that.
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It is a positive space. Absolutely, I agree.
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What are you going to be doing?
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So?
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I tell you, I'm so excited about the ask the
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Agent Anything panel, and so that's an opportunity for writers
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to come out and just basically as literary agents anything.
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So I'm excited about that. I'm also excited about this year.
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I have an opportunity to facilitate a workshop. It's pitch,
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post and promote, and so in that it's really to
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help I'm going to pour in all of my PR
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exec and all of my college tools that I teach
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at the university from a PR perspective, marketing perspective as
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it relates to you know, how to use your content,
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how to use your book as a tool as a
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strategy to really elevate and build engagement through your shared
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and your owned media. I mean, you're going to walk
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a way with a strategy to help you do that,
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to be able to do exactly what the title says, pitch,
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post and promote. I'm excited about it.
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That's gonna be so great.
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I'm excited. It's gonna be fun. So I'm looking forward
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to this year at writer Corn. What are you going
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to be doing?
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First of all, I'm gonna switch this out. I'm gonna
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put Bill's book up here, Okay, Bill, So I have
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a couple sessions and then a masterclass. Let me tell
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you about the sessions first, and then I want you
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to go ooh.
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And okay, we got that.
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So the first one is called relatable versus relational, using
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relationship theory to make your story more compelling. Oh and
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I did if you guys watched a writer con podcast,
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I did a craft corner about that one to give
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you like a little sneak, a little three minute sneak.
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That's gonna be a good one.
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Yeah, thank you, You're gonna be good too.
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And then the other one is comfort content, the psychology
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behind your audience's cravings and how to give them what
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they want.
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Oh.
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Absolutely, and I'm also I'm I'm on a green Player
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round table for writing.
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Yeah, for screenwriters, gonna be taking pitches.
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I'm gonna carey, I'm taking I'm gonna take pitches on
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a memoir pieces and like a little short memoir like, uh,
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well that ties into uh uh this uh masterclass. So
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the master class is cherry picking twenty small moments from
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your life, because a memoir isn't your life story stories
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from your life, and you don't have to wait till
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it's not an end of life of you can write
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a memoir when you're twenty five. So you have twenty
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stories that are compelling, and I'm gonna teach you how
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how to get the get to the core of these
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stories out of your life, and then how to arrange
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them in a compelling way, how to then arrange them
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in the book. And then I'm even going to tell
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you how to market the book. And yeah, and in
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the same way, because I'm gonna write a memoir next
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year the same way that I'm going to market mine.
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And so you'll leave with a marketing plan.
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I love that. That's huge. That's very huge.
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And then the people in the masterclass, they'll get to
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be in a cohort. My TC and I have talked
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about the power of a cohort in a different episode,
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And they'll be in a cohort in a private discord
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group that we already run it right better together, and
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they'll be able to trade their writings and get notes
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from each other, and they can make what they want
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of it.
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I love that, the power of cohorts.
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Yeah, so they take the master classes, they can be
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in there for the rest of their life.
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Oh wow, that's phenomena all by itself.
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Once they register for the masterclass then all that other
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extra stuff. They can stay in the cohort for the
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rest of their life.
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Oh wow, so this is a life time access. I
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love that. Just by coming and registering for Writer Colm
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and being a part I think people should really get
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excited and if they haven't already, go ahead and register
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for Writer Come. I'm looking forward to seeing you there
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and also the writers cool.
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All right, you means I get to see you on
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b Yes.
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Absolutely absolutely, see you soon. All right, see you soon.
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Now let's talk to Sidney Pruitt. Sidney Pruet, welcome to
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the podcast.
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Thanks for having me.
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It's a pleasure to have you here. Okay, usual first question,
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if you could offer writers one piece of advice.
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What would it be.
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I think for me it would be having consistency and community,
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which are two of the hardest things I think for
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me as a writer as well. But the more consistent
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you can be, and the more of a writer community
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you have to help keep you consistent, the better you do.
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Okay, since you've practically set me up by mentioning groups
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and whatnot, you're coming to writer Con, aren't you.
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I am, Yes, looking forward to it.
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Yeah, we're looking forward to having you tell everyone what
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you're going to be doing, or at least.
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Some of it. So I will be leading a Yeah,
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I'll be leading a breakout group at the conference called
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Character Psychology one oh one. I am a licensed therapist
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and I live with a lot of physical disabilities as well,
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and so one of my pet peeves in writing is
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when people write about mental illness or disabilities consistently or
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inconsistently or incorrectly. So what I would like to do
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is just go over the basic psychology behind why humans
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act the way we do, how we respond in difficult situations,
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how trauma or a culture can impact those things, and
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then how to write about people who are from different
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backgrounds cultures consistently and accurately. And so obviously it'll be
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sort of an overview with him on a time that
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we have at writers On, but I'm looking forward to
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sharing that with everybody.
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H fantastic sounds great. Well, I would say that now
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I'm going to totally mess up the schedule, and Laura
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will just keep up because she's brilliant that way. But
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you and I have worked together. The people who listen
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to the podcast regularly know about my Superman book, The
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Superman Wars, and at one point I was looking for
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some more professional insight than I could provide on my
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main historical character. You know, what's driving this guy, why
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does he do this and that? And you were nice
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enough to chip in. I sent you some pages and
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some documents, and that was really terrific, very helpful.
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Okay, I'm glad I was helpful for you. I enjoyed
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reading through the pages that you sent and I'm looking
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forward to reading the full project. That's a newer service
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that I'm offering as a therapist is being a consultant
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for authors. And so I've gotten to your book you
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on that project. And then I worked with another fiction
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author writing about of mental illness, so about to provide
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some information for that. And then it helps still work
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with an author on fiction book. I got to write, oh,
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it's for her as well.
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Great tell us. How did you get involved in therapy
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in the first place.
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I'm one of the kind of weird people who just
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has somewhat always known that's what I wanted to do.
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I decided when I was about fourteen or fifteen that
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I wanted to be a therapist. There was always the
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friend that people would go to for advice, and I
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liked being that person, but I wanted to make sure
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that I was giving good advice, and so went straight
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through college knowing that psychology was going to be my major,
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and after getting into it for a while, I had
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thought that I originally wanted to work with kids, and
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did for sometimes several years, but during the pandemic, when
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everything was virtual, I decided that working with kids was
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not productive for any of us at that time since
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we were all on the screens, and so I ended up
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working with college agent and really loved it. So that's
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what I primary now was college age or younger adults,
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and I'm working with people who have OCD, which is
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something I'm diagnosed with as well, but also people who
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have experienced various forms of trauma.
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I think it's brilliant that you just knew exactly what
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you wanted to do from such an early age. I
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don't think that happens very often.
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It really doesn't. I don't know many people who have
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that story with people shop around a little bit before deciding.
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Or just like too many things and don't know how
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to focus. Yeah, you've written a lot of non fiction articles.
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Yes, some freelance writing, and have also written some personal
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stories with my health issues. I had to have it
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distract me when I was twenty six, and so I
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have a story that's published about that experience. I have
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an upcoming one for Suicide Awareness Month in September that
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will be published. But I love sharing mental health and
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disability stories and my own piction writing as well.
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And tell us how that can help writers.
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I'm sorry I lost you guys for a second.
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What was the question?
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Tell us how this can help other writers.
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So with your own experiences, I think it's important just
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to be able to share the things you know we
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always hear right way, you know, as an author, and
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I think that incorporating that with my background as far
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as the past gosit writer from it helps writers to
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know how to incorporate the real life things. Why do
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we act the way we do? Knowing that psychology, I
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think helps to create deeper characters because a lot of
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times writers do the right things when they're writing and
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they don't know why, so the character actions will make sense,
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but they don't necessarily know the science behind it. And
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it's those little moments where things are inconsistent with psychology
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that we don't necessarily know why as readers, but it
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feels so if the writer can understand the background behind that,
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it will help them to be able to not have
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those little moments where the reader feels like something's just
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not quite right.
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Yeah.
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No, that sounds like I would really tighten up the story.
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That sounds very useful. I'm fascinated. I think I'm coming
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to your session.
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I thought this was unique and interesting. That's why I
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invited you to writer Con in the first place. I
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was glad that you were able to come. So you're
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also I'm sorry.
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Go ahead, sorry, I've I'm still I'm still enjoying talking
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about the therapy.
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But you're a practitioner. VMDR Yes, EMDR and ERP are
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my two main modalities that I use. So EMDR is
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one of the leading forms of trauma therapy, and it's
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unique in that it's not all talking back and forth
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like we do with most other forms in therapy. It
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uses a tapping method or sometimes you'll do eye movements
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back and forth, and it stimulates both sides of your
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brain so that it gets your logic and reasoning going,
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but also the emotions, the past memories. But it keeps
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you grounded in the present, and it helps your brain
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to process the things that you've been through and file
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away the things that are useful, but it sort of
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deletes some of that unnecessary information that's keeping you for
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feeling it and keeping you stuck in that situation. You
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ever seen somebody who is sleeping and their eyes dart
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back and forth. It's the same type of thing when
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that happens, you're dreaming and your brain is processing. But
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with EMDR, we get to choose what we're processing and
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do that same type of work. And then the ERP
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is for people who have OCD, it's exposure and response prevention,
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and it helps expose them to some of the things
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that are triggering or intrusive for them and prevent the
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responses of the compulsion.
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Now, speaking of things you can do for writers, you
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also handle sensitivity reads. Right, I think everybody on this
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podcast knows what I'm talking about. Having your manuscript read
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it in advance to ensure that you're not inadvertently possibly
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offending someone.
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And I think the benefit of having a therapist do
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the sensitivity read is as a therapist, we are required
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to have a certain amount of continuing education each year,
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and so every year I'm learning about. I primarily try
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to focus mine around trauma for cultural awareness and sensitivity,
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s aying someone who has more education every single year
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about what terms are accurate, what terminology is appropriate at
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this time, different things to look out for when writing
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out disabilities or cultural differences or even different religions. Lots
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of knowledge in that area, so I can help you
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know what to look out for that a lot of
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people might not think about.
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M On a completely unrelated note, but something that I
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thoroughly enjoy talking about. You have three rescue dogs.
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You do, so I am didn't know that was coming. Huh.
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I surprised shirt right now. I don't know if you
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guys can even see me, but copy dogs and mental health.
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Ah, and there's Baxter barking. He approves totally. That's our
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rescue dog anyway, Going love.
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That, Yeah, I had to. Going into my relationship, I'm
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getting married next month, and I have Lilian Padson and
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Lily is a Collei mix. Padfit is some sort of
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like fake German shepherd mixed. He's very small, but he's
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he looks like a German shepherd. And then we have Olive,
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who is a blind, elderly toy poodle. So that was
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my coming into the relationship.
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Nice. Yes, we have a rescue dog and then two
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rescue cats.
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So really I.
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Would love a cat, but my dogs would not. You
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would be surprised. You would be surprised. And we welcomed
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our first cat in. We had concerns and doubts, and well,
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thirty minutes forty five minutes, one of them was just like, cool,
483
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there's a cat now, and the other one was just
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following him around and just fascinated. It's surprising how they adapt. Yeah,
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maybe I'll have to try it then.
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Okay, before this started, you got to hear Jesse and
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I talked Star Trek. But you're a Disney Parks fan.
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I hear, yes, yeah, so Disney and Star Wars are
489
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:59.359
kind of my main fandoms that I have my fans. Actually,
490
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.359
I had had me cosplay on a dating app and
491
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:09.440
that was the picture that he liked. Very fun.
492
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:13.240
Have you ever worked with any like Disney Park performers
493
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:15.000
or anything like that or do you just go and
494
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.480
play not in a working capacity.
495
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:20.599
Yeah, I just like to go and be there. My
496
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.839
sisters both worked for the parks, but they weren't formers.
497
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:27.319
They did attractions and hotel work and foods. Yeahs like that.
498
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:29.920
But they did the Disney College program. So Disney College.
499
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:32.599
Yes, one of our daughters did the Disney College program,
500
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:33.480
so we're familiar.
501
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:36.119
Love that. Yeah, it's such a cool program. I wish
502
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.640
I had known about it when I was in college.
503
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:42.240
Okay, Sydney, one last question. What are you working on now?
504
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:45.000
I hear a rumor that there is a novel somewhere
505
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:45.519
in the mix.
506
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:49.400
Yeah, So, like I said, I have an upcoming story
507
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:53.000
that will be an Okay see Pets magazine for next month.
508
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:57.039
So that's my little nonfiction project. I have a poetry
509
00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:01.000
manuscript that I'm shopping around right now, and then I
510
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:03.839
am working on my first novel, so it'll be a
511
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:09.759
wrong com it's called conflict of interest, so I guess
512
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:12.119
keep your eyes close air Field for that. But it's
513
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:14.559
going to be a minute before that one's done.
514
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:18.559
Sydney, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
515
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:19.519
Really appreciate it.
516
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.119
Yes, thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to
517
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:22.640
Writer Con.
518
00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:40.599
Yeah, to see you there. Find out Just one last reminder,
519
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:44.640
Writer Con August twenty one to September one in Oklahoma
520
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:48.319
City at the Scurven Hilton. You want to be there.
521
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:50.359
Laura and I are going to be there, and Jesse
522
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:52.880
will be there, and Sydney's going to be there, and
523
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:58.400
like sixty or seventy other writers, agents, publishers and other
524
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:02.160
people connected to the publishing industry will be there. You
525
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:05.680
don't want to miss miss this. Take the chance to
526
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:11.599
do your writing career favor. Our website is writercon dot com.
527
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:14.640
Let me also remind you that writer Con has its
528
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:18.960
own newsletter and it's totally free, so why would you
529
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:23.440
want to miss that? Where at substack? Just go there
530
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:27.279
and search for writer Con and sign up doesn't cost
531
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:29.920
you penny. You can join the writer Con Facebook group,
532
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.839
I mean, why haven't you do it now? And enjoin
533
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:40.119
this really wonderful community of writers posting almost every day.
534
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.559
It's a great group of people. All right, until next time,
535
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:49.720
keep writing and remember you cannot fail if you refuse
536
00:31:49.799 --> 00:32:04.319
to quit. See you next time, be at a