Episode 65 - Dave Barnes - Someday This Will All Make Sense

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Hey, you know that feeling when you hear a melody
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that just won't leave your head, or you hear lyrics
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that seem like they were written just for you. How
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does a song even get there? Sometimes I feel like
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I have all the pieces of a song, but no
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idea how to put them all together. Other Times I
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feel like am I crazy? Or is this one actually good?
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Back in episode sixty one of Work Tapes, I interviewed
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Clay Mills, who wrote Diamond Rio's number one hit song
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Beautiful Mess. In that episode, we learn that Clay is
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the co founder of songtown dot Com along with Marty Dotson.
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Songtown offers community, coaching and connections, all built by hit
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songwriters for songwriters just like you and me. Whether you're
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a bedroom dreamer just starting out, or a season pro
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with lots of success. Songtown dot Com gives you access
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to expert feedback where you'll learn from the best, with
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critiques from professional songwriters who've topped the charts. You'll get
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in depth tutorials mastering the craft from melody and lyric
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writing to production and pitching. You'll get access to a
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thriving community where you can connect, collaborate, and find your
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try so, stop wondering what if and start writing what's next.
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Visit songtown dot com forward slash work Tapes and unlock
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your song's true potential.
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This is where your song's next chapter starts.
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Songtown dot Com Forward slash Worktapes. Welcome to work Tapes.
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This is a podcast where we tear up our songs.
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Why with a song written? What's it about? What's the
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context and emotion behind it? Where were you at the time,
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what were you going through? How did certain lines come
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to you? What's the inspiration? How long did it take
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to write? I'm Brandon Carswell and I'm fascinated with a songwriter.
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How songs are built from the ground up.
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It's easy to.
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Hear a full production song on the radio and dismiss
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its origin story. I want to hear the rough draft
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of the song for the work take. I want to
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explore the very beginning. How songs that move us and
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make us move are more.
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The tracks in the driveway that he left while she
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was sleep halfway too early and search of something like me.
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There's a guy that she pres too, But if she
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prees wrong, willy.
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Leave to the boys out of school. All suddenly seem.
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So Dissy Go Live Live the Beastdent Song Day.
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Welcome to work tapes everyone. I am Brandon Carswell as
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usual and today's guest is Today's guest has made his
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way in songwriting, comedy, podcasting, and songwriting. He's collaborated with
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people like Amy Grant, Matt Wirtz, Carrie Underwood, Thomas Rhett,
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Marion Morris, and with the help of Blake Shelton, scored
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a Grammy nominated number one hit song called God Gave
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Me You. He's the co host of a podcast called Dadville,
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and today we're going to discuss a song that he
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wrote called Someday this Will all Make Sense, and we're
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going to listen to the work tape of that song.
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A man of many personalities.
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Dave Barnes welcome, Thanks for having me. And just so
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everyone knows, that took like five times to get.
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Down the intro, but you really stuck at that time,
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and I think sticking to English was the move.
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Yeah.
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The Spanish one was good, but it meandered Dutch.
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Dutch. Yeah, it's a hard language. It's a lot of
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hard hours. How are you Thanks for coming good? Yeah,
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thanks for having me.
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Appreciate I we met kind of through. Well, we definitely
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met through Mica talks.
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Who you've worked with and sex in a day? Worry,
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what did you talk to something about?
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I was trying to see if he could do a mix.
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But he's like, bro, I'm just busy. I'm so busy.
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I was like, and I literally texted him someone as
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talented as you should be busy.
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He is busy. I can't even hang out with him.
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I know.
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So yes, thanks for being here. I want to start
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with you. Let's just start and dive in. Let's dive in,
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Let's dive in deep. Because I think that I was
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singing about this, like how am I going to intro Dave?
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What am I going to ask him first? And you're
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such like an animated guy and I am not. I'm
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the opposite of you. I'm pretty soft spoken. People are
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not sure if I'm even nice to when they meet me.
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Thank you for saying that. So I'm like, okay, my
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aim is to get to the serious side of Dave Bondo.
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It's there.
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It's just it's like jaws lurking beneath at all times,
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is it? Oh yeah, staring up at those legs. Just
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see but I know it turn it just comes right.
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Let's start with what drew you into music, because you
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you do so many things which I think we should
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talk about. But what were like your early years, what
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go all the way back to did you start in
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music as a kid. Were you fascinated with it that
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early or were you later? So that my dad and
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mom both love music, which I think really matters in
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my story because it was kind of always on in
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the background, like if dad always say that if Dad
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was doing anything, he had and he's still alive, but
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like he just always got music on, Like if he
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was in the garage, music on, if he was working
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the art, music was on in the garage so we
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could hear it. I mean, he just really loved music.
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And so I think in some ways that I sort
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of osmodically both picked that up, you know, because I'm
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kind of the way if I'm the same way, if
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I'm doing anything, I probably got music on the background,
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but I didn't, you know, it wasn't it wasn't something
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I knew that could be done professionally. Like I knew
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obviously people did it because I listened to it, But
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there wasn't sort of like a pedigree for like, oh,
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so for me it was. And I lived in a
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really small town in Mississippi, so I didn't even know.
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I didn't know somebody that played guitar like I'd never
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seen in real life a human play guitar, probably to
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my first concert, Amy Grant, Michael Wui Smith's shout out
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really yeah and Jackson that's full circle. Yeah it is,
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and it's crazy. Yeah yeah, I could talk about that
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for a long time. But anyway, so I didn't know
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that my first real interaction with it in a way
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that really like felt like a lightning strike as I
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went over to friends of mine, this is such a
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random story. And I'd always loved music like I always
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loved it. I think i'd been playing drum set at
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this point because I played Marching band and I played
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drums and marching band, and then that was kind of
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a you know, like the gateway drug to drum set,
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which I loved. My mom and dad bought me one
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of those, I think seventh eighth grade, and I loved it.
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I played it all the time, would put tapes on
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and play along and do that thing.
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For those who remember tapes, my work tapes.
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Yeah, same, God you are good, they said, you're good,
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but trid better, and I imagine.
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And so I.
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Went over to my friend's house and he had one
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of those member time Life used to sell those series
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of CDs that'd be like Romance or My Ruck, and
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he had I think it was nineteen seventy eight, which
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is the year I was born, and it was like
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the Hits of nineteen seventy eight.
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And I don't know why.
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I mean, I don't know why, but we we were
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hanging out in a room to put the CD on
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the stereo, and I remember to me, I remember clearly
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he might be like, you weren't doing that, but I
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remember standing in front of the stereo and being at
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the age were like early teens, and it was like
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American Woman was on there more than a Feeling by
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Boston was on there. There was like four or five songs,
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and it was like the first time I'd really heard
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I remember standing in front of the speakers and listening
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and being like, what is this because some of the
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songs I actually didn't know, but it was like a
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It was like one of the first strong memories I
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have in my life of like it felt like I
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was drinking lightning. It was just like, oh my gosh,
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this feeling and that sort of began my my, I
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would say more a mature version of being interested in music,
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but it was like I want to participate in it.
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You might have said how old we early teens, okay.
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And I think that day was kind of the first
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day of the rest of my life in some ways,
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because I was like, oh, I don't want to just
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listen to this, I want to know how to be
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involved in it. And so I was playing drum set.
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We moved to Knoxville when I was in high school,
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and the last two years of my high school were
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at Farragut in Knoxville, and uh, you know, I started
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playing with people that went to school and they'd come
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over and bring the guitars and amps, and that was
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totally new to me. I remember playing Alive by Pearl Jam.
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I think it was like the first one I ever jammed.
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Was somebody on it and I was like, this is
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the best feeling I ever felt.
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What did you play? You played drum drums?
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Yeah, and so you know I played. I joined a
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Christian band and we toured all around Knoxville and it
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was pretty It was like a pretty grown up thing.
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Looking back on it, like we had made a CD.
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We toured it. We you know, it was like around
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that area and got a little bit of a thing
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going and and but it was weird because it didn't
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scratch an itch. Like I thought drumming was my thing.
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I came to MTSU steady drum set, did the whole thing,
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thought this is what I'm gonna do. But it wasn't
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until my freshman year when I started. My roommate had
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a guitar and he let me play that. I started
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writing songs.
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I don't know why.
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I have no clue why I started writing songs, but
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when I picked up a guitar and my brain went, oh,
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you write songs for this, not you learn blues licks.
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You don't learn Dave Matthews. It was like, you play
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song like you write songs. And so I just immediately
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started doing that, and slowly but surely, when I started that,
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I was like, oh, this is the thing, Like drums
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is cool. But I realized that drums was just my
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way to interact with music. But this was where I
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was really wanting to end up. Was like right singing it,
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but not singing it yet because my best friend is
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still my close friend in the world game Mike Candras
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Micah could sing, and so freshman sophomoreyear we'd write little
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songs together and start kind of playing them out and
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I'd play guitar and he would sing. And then I
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wrote this one song that I played for him, I
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think my sophomore year and he's like, man, he actually
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sound pretty good singing this, and I was like, oh no, dude,
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Like I'm a drummer. I was still like my goal
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was like to move to Nashville and play drums for
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DC Talk or something.
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It was just like I wanted to do that. Yeah,
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come on, man, WHU why wouldn't you Jesus Freed come out?
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And I was like this is maybe a great Shirkord
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of all time. And but that day he was like, listen,
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I'm not I'm not singing that song. If you want
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people to hear it, you got to sing it. And
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it was it was like that was it. I was
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like shoot. So then my whole brain shifted like, well,
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I guess I got to sing now, and so I
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just started. I'm so dysfunctional inways, but my logical next
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step was then I just got to go play shows.
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It wasn't like, oh I should learn how to sing
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or I just was like, I guess you just go
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do it. And so literally just started booking shows and
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never sung for a human under your own name, under
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my own name, and just started doing shows and it
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was like, all right, were telling your teens at this point,
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this is like nineteen twenty, Okay, so it's like kind
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of back half of college. And then that was the
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beginning that I moved to Nashville and worked for got
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named Ed Cash for a hot minute, and then Ed
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and I made a bunch of records together that was
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kind of off to the races, but really random beginning
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because it was never I never knew what I was doing.
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It's just doors kept opening that kept making more sense,
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and God was sort of stringing me along. They're in
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really cool ways to get me to where I am now,
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which really is what I love doing.
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Yeah, So, going back to when you were listening with
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your friend, Yeah, what do you think it was?
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Do you think it was.
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The speakers, like something sounded different, like it sounded better,
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like it was more.
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I do think that's a piece of it. I think
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there was something about interacting it with it. For the
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first time where I was focused on it, like I
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was standing in front of hystereo like like you know,
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I was just standing there, and I think the volume mattered.
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I think, you know, it's just something about my brain
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was at a point where it was like I'm ready
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to interact with this in a different way than just
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sort of like it's on the background. And it's fun
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because we always had music on the background, but this
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was the first time, and I think I didn't know
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those songs well too, so it was just like what
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is this?
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But also you're talking about I think you mentioned Boston.
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You're talking about records that sound unbelievable.
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Unbelievable and specific parts, and I mean just it was great.
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Oh Dustin the Wind was on that. Yeah, see, And
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it was just songs that I was like, And again
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i'd heard great so my dad loves great music, so
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I knew great music. So it wasn't that I was
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like what is this, But it was just like something
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about that moment. It's like everything was felt so new
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and yeah, turbo charged. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I
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think enough people don't. I don't think enough people listen
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to music in that way.
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Yeah, Yeah, we're definitely losing it, that's for sure.
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We used to I think, as humans, we used to
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listen to music, great stereos.
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Yeah yeah, And I think in a way, you know,
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I listened to the Wonder what was it called the
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Stevie Wonder podcast that Barack and his family were part of.
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I forget that, Oh, the Wonder of Stevie, Okay, And
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they interview Michelle Obama and she says, people don't understand
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that when you used to buy a record, it was
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a every sense other than like taste was involved, because
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it would have a smell, you would you would put
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it in and sit down, open it, read it, listen,
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look at it, feel it. She's like, so it was
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it was all all but one of your senses were engaged.
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And so it wasn't just listening to music. It was
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experiencing music, you know. And I think that really matters.
285
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She know it does, and so I think in some
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ways that was a little bit of what happened that day.
287
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But it was it was cataclysmic.
288
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I mean, it was change.
289
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We've definitely lost that with streaming and listening through bluetooth
290
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and all this stuff that gets compressed and it doesn't
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sound quite right. Yeah, as a music nerd, you know that.
292
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But you don't have to be a nerd to hear it.
293
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Yeah you don't at all, don't. Yeah, it's true, and
294
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it's a good challenge for those listening. Go by Dave
295
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Barnes Vinyl or something and put headphones on them on
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the floor.
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Yeah, it's crazy, it is. It's really different. It's funny
298
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because it's the same thing. I mean, it's like whether
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it's on your car on a run. But yeah, it's
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when you really choose to engage it. It's crazy how
301
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different it feels.
302
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So you're a drummer and that that was the idea.
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You were going to come here, you were going to
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play drums.
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Yeah. Arguably though Jesus Freak wasn't their best record. Oh
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whoa hot take? I think it's supernatural. You like supernatural? Yeah,
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I can't go with you there, but I love you
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can't Maybe I need to go back.
309
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Well, I mean they're both for me. Jesus Freak was like,
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what is this? I still I listened to that record
311
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with my kids the other day.
312
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What was speaking of that? That stuff? What was influencing
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you at the time, even even when you were thinking
314
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I'm just I want to be a drummer.
315
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Man. I wore out the Spin Doctor first record. Oh.
316
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I got to meet Aaron Comas last year and it
317
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was a massive moment for me. Yeah, because we played
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a which record was that? What was that Pocket Flow
319
00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.399
of Kryptnight? Okay, it's such a good record. That is
320
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a record I will I will dial on that hill.
321
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I was talking to somebody about the Spin Doctors not
322
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too long ago, and I was They were like, what
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songs do they have?
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I'm like, are you kidding? Go listen? Yeah, well that
325
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that record.
326
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There's a lot of records like this, but this one,
327
00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.000
this one is on this list for me of records
328
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that if you aren't paying attention to you're like, yeah,
329
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it's like kind of fun, little bit of cheesy pop.
330
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But if you if you get a guitar and I
331
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dare you to learn those guitar parts, and you will
332
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go wait, wait, wait.
333
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Wait what is he doing? Yeah?
334
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Or the drumming is insane, but it's it's really much
335
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more deep than you feel, which I think is a
336
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little bit of the of the genius. Not just that band,
337
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but especially that record is because first listen, like.
338
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Oh, it's just fun on the phone booth on the cover.
339
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But it's it's deeply, deeply musical, so that and I mean,
340
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you know, it was a lot of pearl jam this
341
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So for me this would have been like ninety four,
342
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ninety three, ninety four, and so it was a lot
343
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of that kind of the beginnings of grunge. Eventually I
344
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got into like, you know, super Unknown, which for a
345
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drummer is a really fun record. There's so much odd
346
00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:33.960
time stuff, so much Matt Cameron is just a monster.
347
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I still love that, right, Oh, it's incredible. It's insane.
348
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Yes, songwriting wise, that's you know, this is weird, and
349
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we don't have to go off on this tangent, but
350
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I really do. Like if you look at the lineage
351
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of the Beatles, to me, Paul McCartney has a pretty
352
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well worn path of people that you can see sort
353
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of followed in his wake in beautiful ways, be it
354
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Yellow or Jellyfish or whatever. Right, a lot of bands
355
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that really took that mantle and really did it well,
356
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and tons of pop bands whatever.
357
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Lenin.
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To me, it's harder to do that with because his
359
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.599
is so awesomely weird.
360
00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:07.839
The songs he wrote.
361
00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.599
Like it's not as easy to but to me, to me,
362
00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:13.519
super Unknown actually does that in some ways, these kind
363
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of corprogression. You're like, that should never work, and Chris
364
00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.319
Cornell is like, not only will it work, it's going
365
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to be a hit. And that, to me is my opinion.
366
00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:24.519
John's great legacy to the music world has taken songs.
367
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:26.960
You're like, I will give you every chord that's in
368
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.759
this song, and I will a million dollars says I
369
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:31.279
could leave you in here for a year and you'll
370
00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:32.799
never be able to put these chords together in a
371
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way that's memorable. And Lenin's like, oh, well, how about this,
372
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And you're like, that's what he can do, right, And
373
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I think super unknowns.
374
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Got a little bit of that. You're like, why does
375
00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:43.160
this work so well? It works so well?
376
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.799
You know the bin or not the bens, but okay,
377
00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.359
computers like that for me where you're like, how is
378
00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:51.359
this music this good and so weird, so weird and complicated,
379
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.759
so complicated, like chords that do not have anything to
380
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.240
do with each other? Yeah, nothing, and it's oh they
381
00:17:58.279 --> 00:17:59.640
can though, watch me wake them work.
382
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:01.960
We were in a band one time when we had
383
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.160
a guitar player with us for a short time that
384
00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:06.640
it's like, well, you can't play major and minor chords together,
385
00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:08.920
but you can't write a song like that. You can't
386
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.599
go from this to the oh yeah yeah, but you
387
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.000
can just give them a Beatles record.
388
00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:13.400
Oh.
389
00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:17.119
And also, I mean like it was like there's not
390
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:19.720
a rule book. Yeah, dude, Yeah, Like I get it.
391
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:20.559
I get what you're saying.
392
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.279
Well, you do, like you think about Norwegian Wood or
393
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.759
Penny Lane and you're like, you have the same chord
394
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:28.880
major and minor and the same so I mean Norwegian
395
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.920
Wood starts and I think it's E major and then
396
00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:36.079
the chorus is em yeah, like that's some flexing. Man.
397
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:38.680
Yeah, I'm so glad that you were into grunge.
398
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:39.440
I don't know why that.
399
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:41.519
Well, you know, it's funny. We moved in Knoxville. The
400
00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:43.880
guys that I that I carpooled with the school because
401
00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:45.599
I would not have been left to my own devices.
402
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:48.319
I'm much too poppy for that. But they were they
403
00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:51.000
were like they looked like a Nirvana video, like they
404
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:56.160
were wholly invested, long hair vans. Wonderful guys. Because at
405
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.000
first I was super intimidated. I was like, man, these
406
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.799
guys kind of scare me, but they were awesome. But
407
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.519
every morning it was Tool nirvana. I mean, it was
408
00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:07.200
getting in the cars like the Devil's going to manifest
409
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.559
himself in these back seats, which he probably did in
410
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:12.799
the weekends, but only. But but you know, it's funny.
411
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:14.599
I was like, God, tools kind of awesome, you know
412
00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:16.440
what I mean. It was like and I think for
413
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.400
me it was a real That was a real. That
414
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:19.960
was a gift to me because I think it got
415
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:22.279
me out of my sort of like in.
416
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:26.960
The you know, are are there any metal bands nowadays
417
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:27.400
that you like?
418
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:29.519
I don't keep up with it, but I promise you
419
00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:31.440
I know myself and if you played me five of them,
420
00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:32.200
I'd probably like them.
421
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:33.920
Yeah.
422
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:35.400
That was but that was a good season for me
423
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:38.200
because I think it really opened my eyes to like, oh,
424
00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:40.279
there's really because you know, man, you just you know,
425
00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:42.119
especially in that day and age, it would be like
426
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.160
these are bad people making bad music, and it was like, okay,
427
00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:48.240
you know, and my parents weren't like that, by the way,
428
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:49.839
I want to say, like they were not those people
429
00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:53.160
at all, Like they weren't like the that's the Devil's music.
430
00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:54.960
But I think I just was. I was like, oh,
431
00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.119
it just kind of scares me. And to be in
432
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:58.759
the car eve in one of those guys and be like, God,
433
00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:00.359
that song is good, you know, I get that. I'd
434
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:02.759
by myself third period, like walking around singing.
435
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:04.279
I was like, gosh, that's so hooky.
436
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:05.640
Oh yeah, and then I'd be like, hey, will you
437
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.759
play that uh play that Nirvana tune again next morning?
438
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:09.000
You know.
439
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:10.559
So it was good for me to kind of go, oh,
440
00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:13.240
this is like just good music, you know something.
441
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:15.759
It's crazy, but I mean, Alon Chain's all this stuff.
442
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:17.720
I was like, dude, I was the same way like
443
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:19.720
my drummer. I was in a band when I was
444
00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:22.880
thirteen fourteen, and my drummer would cart me around he
445
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.400
was nineteen, yeah, and so he'd come pick me up
446
00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:29.839
and we were listening to like Pantera, Metallica, h yeah,
447
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:32.960
Hank Williams Junior in the same day, like just like
448
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.880
popping in tapes and it was school in me.
449
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.559
Dude, Well, it's really fun I mean, Pearl Jam, It's
450
00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:40.519
it's funny, like all those bands, Neirvana.
451
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:42.240
I did the really deep dive on them bout a.
452
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:44.640
Year ago and listen to records and I hadn't in
453
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:46.480
a long time, and it was a tutorial.
454
00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:47.119
Oh yeah.
455
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:49.039
And you know what you realize when you do that,
456
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:52.960
in my opinion, is you see, especially with Nevermind, it
457
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.359
really is a pop masterpiece. A lot of people would
458
00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.880
be like, well, it's grunge or whatever. I'm like, if
459
00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.640
you played on guitar, it's some of the most melodic,
460
00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:03.440
well written songs ever. It's just the way they produced it,
461
00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:06.039
you know, had all this fuzz and distortion, so it
462
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.000
sort of fools you into thinking it's these other kind
463
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.400
of songs. But on guitar, they were really these like
464
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.640
beautiful pop songs, you know. And he and then you
465
00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:16.359
read quotes about him how one of the pedigrees for
466
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.119
them was to sound like the Beatles, and how butch
467
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:20.000
Big was like, we're stripping everything down to where it's
468
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.559
only hooks on every instrument, and you realize like.
469
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:24.759
Ah aha aha.
470
00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:27.920
But at the time it felt like, whoa these pissed
471
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:29.000
off young teens.
472
00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:32.119
Yeah, well it was hooks, and it was hooks with passion.
473
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:35.279
Oh that's that's beautifully said. That's a great way to.
474
00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:39.759
Send That's why my kids love Nirvana. It's just gonna
475
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:40.400
last forever.
476
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:43.200
It's that's so good. It's I mean, I listened to
477
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:45.240
my kids and it was really fun to sort of
478
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:46.799
be like, let me take this. And then again I
479
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.079
just did this crazy because I was so fascinated with
480
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:51.160
like because again, when they were out, I was kind
481
00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:54.079
of like, this feels a little aful, you know, And
482
00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:56.799
Kurt and his whole thing was kind of intimidating and dark,
483
00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.599
and I was like, b it's great, but that was
484
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:02.160
all that stuff was sort of in the background.
485
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.359
But what's great, and we can get off of this tangent.
486
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:06.079
But I love this.
487
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:13.440
So what's great about Kurt Cobain was that his struggle
488
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:15.359
was just out there, like he didn't care. It was
489
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:18.680
out there. Yeah, And so the passion and the music
490
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.599
and the hooks, yes, but also you got to see
491
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:24.799
him like kind of in real time, in real life.
492
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.640
Yeah. I wonder what it would have.
493
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:30.799
Been like if like social media had been a thing
494
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.119
when at his highest, you know, like yeah, when they
495
00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:38.720
were when never mind hit and they were just exploding. Yeah,
496
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:39.400
I don't know.
497
00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:41.640
He was crazy about that last story about this. I
498
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.640
thought this was so fascinating, you know, they were popping
499
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.519
off two ninety three, ninety four that kind of world.
500
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:50.759
The world was still at a place where they would
501
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:53.680
show up. When Nevermind came out, it was it was
502
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.519
it got so successful so quickly that the label sold
503
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:00.319
out of records because they only got like three hundred
504
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:03.400
thousand printed or something, so they sold out, and they
505
00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:06.319
were like and then you know, Dave Girl talks about
506
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:08.759
how they would get to venues and the venue would
507
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:10.839
have sold out, but they would be three times as
508
00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:12.839
many people in the line that could fit in the venue,
509
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.119
and Nirvana would they like they were learning this real time,
510
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:17.880
so they show it and be like, oh my god,
511
00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:20.200
looks like it's working. And so they were almost like
512
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.160
they were finding out as much as you and I
513
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:24.200
would have been found Like it was just that's where
514
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:27.200
the world was, that their fame was so far ahead
515
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.759
of them that they were learning at the same time
516
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:32.839
their fans were how well it was working. And so,
517
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:35.960
you know, the guy said that they had this budget
518
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:39.160
for set aside to promote it, and they never used
519
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.720
it because they didn't need to because it just exploded
520
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.559
that quickly. But those kind of things are so funny
521
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:46.119
to think about because you can imagine being in a
522
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:49.640
van and you really could have sold out probably you know,
523
00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:52.519
the local arena, but you're playing at like Exit in
524
00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:55.000
because you booked it six months ago and they thought,
525
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:56.960
let's just get we want to get to the second record,
526
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:01.319
and that's it's exploding. Wow, Like they couldn't catch up
527
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:03.920
to it, you know. Yeah, there was some crazy stat
528
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:05.519
where they were selling I'm gonna get it wrong, but
529
00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:09.039
like hundreds of thousands a week you know, for a while. Yeah,
530
00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:11.440
and you're just like, that's just crazy to think about.
531
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:12.480
That's music.
532
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.359
It's insane.
533
00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:17.839
I mean I could talk about that all day that seriously,
534
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:20.160
because my kids are so into it.
535
00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:23.880
We listen to Nevermind literally all the time. Yeah, we
536
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:27.119
have the CD in the car and they pop it in. Yeah,
537
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.960
and they're learning guitar. That's a great record.
538
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:33.000
My kids are ten and thirteen, so they're playing all
539
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:34.839
the Nirvana songs.
540
00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:36.000
Yeah.
541
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:38.079
That was like one of my first little Yeah, I
542
00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:40.319
got that one in the bag and real cool.
543
00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:46.680
Me too, me too? Were your family so you got
544
00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:49.759
into singing? But I'm curious, like, was your family musical?
545
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:50.720
Did you have people?
546
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:50.799
No?
547
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:51.240
No?
548
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:53.640
I mean, so where did that come from? I don't know, God,
549
00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:56.599
I don't know. Uh, nobody can sing in your friend.
550
00:24:56.599 --> 00:24:57.039
I mean they can.
551
00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:00.440
They can all sing, and they just don't yeah that. Yeah,
552
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:02.799
nobody's like trying to rock the mic or anything. But
553
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.200
my dad, Well, the funny one Dad is he kind
554
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:08.160
of showed me how to play both guitar and drums
555
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:10.079
because he was kind of like he knew enough on
556
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:13.680
both to kind of be dangerous. And so, you know,
557
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:15.720
I think if if he had wanted to, he probably
558
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:17.240
could have done it to I'm not saying at a
559
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:19.279
professional level, but I mean like he can, he can
560
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.640
get around on it, and the same with drums. And
561
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.400
so it was funny because I sort of forget that
562
00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:25.599
sometimes how I started. But he was one of those like,
563
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:27.559
all right, here's how Like we were playing Credence clear
564
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:29.839
Water songs on guitar. You know, it's kind of like, oh,
565
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:31.319
that can kind of keep up with this, you know,
566
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:34.920
but none of them in any kind of like you know,
567
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:36.960
grown up professional capacity.
568
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:40.079
Okay, so you grabbed a guitar and you started writing.
569
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:42.480
You said you don't know why, but that's not acceptable.
570
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:43.480
You got to give us a why.
571
00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:48.799
It's fail. That's not an acceptable answer. I don't.
572
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.000
I mean, you must have had some kind of push, like,
573
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:53.880
were you listening to something or somebody?
574
00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:54.240
Again?
575
00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:56.720
I think I just so badly wanted to interact with music.
576
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.079
Was it before your buddy said you have a good voice?
577
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:00.440
Oh?
578
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:02.079
Yeah, way? I mean it was like a couple of years.
579
00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:04.240
Okay, So you had that in your mind and you're like, well,
580
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:05.960
I can sing, so maybe I can write.
581
00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:06.640
No.
582
00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:09.519
I think no, because I wrote when I couldn't sing, Okay,
583
00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:11.960
Like I would just kind of quietly in my dorm
584
00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:14.079
room when my roommate was gone, because he'd let me
585
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.480
use guitar, and I'd write these little tunes very sheepishly,
586
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:19.240
you know, kind of like okay, it's that rhyme. And
587
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:20.839
then i'd show them to mic and my buddy and
588
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:22.480
he'd go oh and then he'd sing it. I'd be like,
589
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.319
oh that sounds good, okay, like you sing good, you know.
590
00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:29.920
And and then you know again he heard me sophomore
591
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.519
year I played. I was like, hey, sing this one,
592
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:32.920
and he's like, oh, no, you should sing that, and
593
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:34.839
I was like, no, I don't sing. He's like, you
594
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.680
sound cool. I was like for real, And then it
595
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.680
was like, oh I should rethink about this then. And
596
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:42.519
then because you know, I mean like, for instance, if
597
00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:46.559
you go you know, God bless you might get sing
598
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:48.680
that way. But then if you sing it God bless them,
599
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:50.680
you know, all of a sudden there's intent and you
600
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:52.880
have a voice. Yeah, And I think that was when
601
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:54.680
I went, oh, should I kind of lean into this
602
00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:56.440
and see what happens when I like try to sing
603
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:59.400
and like really sing it and not like communicate something.
604
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:01.480
And it was like, oh, yeah, there's because I'd record
605
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.519
myself on all tapes in my bedroom and I'd be like, oh,
606
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:05.240
it does sound.
607
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:06.880
Kind of cool, you know, like maybe I do have
608
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:07.319
something here.
609
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:10.480
Yeah, and so and then, you know, in a monumental
610
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:12.960
moment for me, when I was in MTSU, I think
611
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.440
it was my junior year. Around that same time, I
612
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:17.799
had a class that that canceled last minute, so I
613
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:19.039
was on campus. I didn't want to leave, and I
614
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:22.119
went to the mass Calm Library and they had all
615
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:24.799
of these Performing Songwriters, which is still my favorite magazine
616
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:27.799
of all time. It's not in print anymore, and and
617
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.000
I was like, because I was just killing times before
618
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:31.640
cell phones or anything, so I'm like just kind of
619
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:33.200
walking around the Mass Colm building thing and I don't
620
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.640
want to go back to my apartment or to say,
621
00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:36.319
or so walked to the mask com I was looking.
622
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:37.880
I was like, oh, what's this magazine? And I pulled
623
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.079
it down and literally it was like I opened it
624
00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:43.359
and it because you know, I think I think one
625
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:45.359
of the first ones I read was maybe Paul Simon
626
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.440
or Billy Joel. But you know, I'm writing songs at
627
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.319
this point, kind of recreationally, and I'm reading these interviews
628
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:54.880
with John Mellencamp, Paul Simon, and Bruce Hornton and They're like,
629
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:56.920
you know what, I'm writing songs. I find myself wandering
630
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:58.039
in the yard and I know what I got there.
631
00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:59.519
And I was like, oh my gosh, this is what
632
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:02.039
I do. And so I was just burning. So I'm
633
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:05.519
skipping the class after the hour because I just had
634
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:09.400
my nose deep in these magazines of like, wait, this
635
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:12.200
is a thing, like people feel like this because I
636
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:14.640
feel like this. And that was really the beginning of like,
637
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.599
oh my gosh, like song being a songwriter is a thing,
638
00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:21.880
like you have a disposition the way you feel and
639
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:24.839
move in the world and take the world in and
640
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.079
through these pages. It was this community of people I
641
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:30.039
found that was like, oh my gosh, this because I didn't,
642
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:30.880
you know, I thought I'm just.
643
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:32.680
Kind of weird. And I was like, no, no, man, this
644
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:34.839
is like you're a songwriter. And I was like, oh
645
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:39.160
my gosh, this is like and then it was like, oh, well,
646
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:41.240
then that's what I want to do. That's what I'm
647
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:41.920
thinking about now.
648
00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:45.559
And you were like, were you immersed in like the
649
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:48.440
craft of it, like did you want to be an
650
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:50.359
artist or did you want to be a songwriter?
651
00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:51.759
Did you know yet? I didn't.
652
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:53.400
That's a great way to put that. I didn't know yet.
653
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:55.079
I thought I thought I wanted to be a songwriter
654
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.640
because I didn't sing, okay, And then the minute I
655
00:28:57.640 --> 00:28:58.960
said and you know, I was writing.
656
00:28:58.880 --> 00:28:59.480
That's so funny.
657
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:02.759
I always I'm so fascinated by songwriters who can't sing.
658
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:05.599
They're not good singers, but they write amazing songs.
659
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.599
Crazy, just because it doesn't take a good singer to
660
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:10.759
sing a good melody. That's weird to get that's a
661
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:12.880
weird that's a gift. I think that's a real gift
662
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:14.880
from God because it means you can still accomplish it
663
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.759
without necessarily having them whatever. But but yeah, so for
664
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:21.200
me at the time, I was writing, like I was
665
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:24.200
listening to a lot of like skip youing kind of stuff,
666
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:27.599
you know, like Brian Early, Brian White, and like country
667
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:29.960
stuff that was like country was really I really loved
668
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:31.480
country back then I was in college.
669
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:32.880
I didn't really list it for them, but that was
670
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:35.279
kind of like suns and nineties country.
671
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:37.559
Yeah, kind of like late uh yeah yeah, like kind
672
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:41.240
of late nineties country. And so I would see like, oh,
673
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:43.440
this guy wrote that song, not the artist, and then
674
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:45.920
that was another like oh my god, Okay, so maybe
675
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:47.920
I can write songs for people because I don't sing,
676
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:50.759
but I was writing kind of like nice, little vanilla
677
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:52.839
stale songs. But the minute I was like, oh, I'm
678
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:55.079
going to sing these as myself, it was like I
679
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:56.519
gotta I gotta amp that up.
680
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:58.000
It's got to have a little more meat on the
681
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:00.359
bones and be a little less me, you know.
682
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:02.440
And so then it was interesting because I started writing
683
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:05.160
much more artistic songs, like what's a different way to
684
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:07.720
say that, I mean for yourself, for myself, And so
685
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.720
really there was a pretty massive stop and start between
686
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:14.160
like all little frilly songs. Got to listen to the country,
687
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:15.279
be like, oh, I think I can write a little
688
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:17.680
country thing, and it looks like this. But the minute
689
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:19.440
it was like, oh no, no, this is mean my name,
690
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:21.359
like I'm going to go play this as Dave Barnes
691
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:23.799
and I was like, oh, it's then I started leaving
692
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:27.440
and leaning too like Bonnie Rate, Stevie Wonder, like Mark Cohne,
693
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:29.880
things that I was like, Oh, these are artists, you know.
694
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:31.920
This is not sort of made for the mainstream. This
695
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:33.640
is for people who are like trying to be like, hey,
696
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:36.200
this is how I feel about something, you know, yes,
697
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:39.240
And that was suddenly really fun because I was like, oh, man,
698
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:40.799
I can like put my stamp on this.
699
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:41.759
Okay.
700
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.880
So when you started doing that and it started becoming
701
00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:49.359
like your job to be an artist, yeah, you were
702
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:51.400
still thinking about writing songs for other people.
703
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:53.400
No, it stopped immediately really. Yeah.
704
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:55.160
That was when when I sort of was like, oh,
705
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:56.960
I'm going to play these out. It was like everything
706
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:57.960
I write is for me now.
707
00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.079
Okay. So then.
708
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:04.079
How did you get into publishing them? Because you Okay,
709
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:05.519
so when you get a deal, a lot of times
710
00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:07.960
you get a pub deal along with it, right, yeah,
711
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:14.359
So how were other artists hearing your songs because you
712
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:15.240
write for other people?
713
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:15.480
Huh?
714
00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:18.920
Well, early days it was funny and I love I
715
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.079
really miss these days because it was such an innocence
716
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:23.559
to it. Because when I moved to Nashville and I
717
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:26.160
made this EP called three and four, and I toured
718
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:27.480
that for a couple of years, which you want to
719
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:29.480
have a real good time, try touring a five song
720
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:31.839
EP for two years. It was like you might have
721
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:36.119
heard these last time we're gonna play Yeah, And I
722
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:37.119
didn't even play the Holy EP.
723
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:37.680
That was funny.
724
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:38.960
So I was writing a lot and that was kind
725
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:42.519
of like filling the set out more than these new songs.
726
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:45.920
But when I got here, you know, I started to
727
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.359
do the thing, and thanks to things like Napster and
728
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:50.880
Lime Wire, like my you know, it just sort of
729
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:52.720
took off. It was like all of a sudden, I'd
730
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:54.319
showed up to place I'd never been and there'd be
731
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:56.559
three hundred people there, you know, five hundred people there,
732
00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:00.880
And so that way, artists started hearing about me. So
733
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:02.839
every now and then, you know, somebody'd be coming through
734
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:04.839
Nashville and I'd get an email and it'd be some
735
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:06.920
major label artists or something, and they'd be like, hey, man,
736
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:08.799
I love your music. I've got like a couple of days,
737
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:10.920
could we write a song together? And this is before
738
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:12.720
I knew that was like a thing. So I'd be
739
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.039
like sure, Like I don't know what that means. So yeah,
740
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:16.680
I just kind of have my guitar and either they'd
741
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:17.839
be like, hey, meet me at the studio.
742
00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:19.799
My So you didn't have like a manager or a
743
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.839
publisher going let's schedule these rights.
744
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.640
Yeah, not at all, and so people just like rock
745
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:28.319
up to my apartment or I'd go to some place
746
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:30.920
and and I mean it was it was so wonderfully
747
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:32.160
simple because I was like, you.
748
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:36.200
Want to write something? Yeah, cool, I love that, you know. Uh.
749
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:41.400
Or they'd go hey, I had this idea and you'd
750
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:43.079
write it and I'd leave thinking that was fun. But
751
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:45.279
then like I was getting these cuts and it was like.
752
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:45.799
Oh, this is cool.
753
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:48.160
I'm on this record. Look all right, you know. But
754
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:50.559
I was so focused on my own thing. It was like,
755
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:52.720
that's all fine, but this is what I'm really trying
756
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:54.759
to do. And then when God gave me you happened
757
00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:57.920
with Blake, you know, it happened this perfect sort of
758
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:00.279
coming together moment in my life. Because we had had
759
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.960
our first kid, I was really ready to give the
760
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:05.000
road to break. I wanted to be a dad so
761
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.440
bad and be home and participate in like more of
762
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.599
a home life with my wife and everything. And so
763
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.640
when Blake heard it and it did what it did,
764
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.160
suddenly people in Nashville were much more kind of like hey,
765
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:18.799
because you know, I've been here my whole career, so
766
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:22.039
I had tons of friends, you know, I knew publishers,
767
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.200
and but they were always like, oh, he's doing his thing.
768
00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:27.480
And then it was suddenly like, well, hold on, are
769
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:29.480
you doing country music? And I was like I don't know,
770
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:31.759
and They're like, we want to write more country music
771
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:34.480
and I was like, you know, sure, why not?
772
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:34.880
You know.
773
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.000
So then that's when pub deal Like I started shopping
774
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.680
pub deals because people were like, hey, you know, we'd
775
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:43.319
love to have you on, have you write with us.
776
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:45.599
And because when you write a song by yourself that
777
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.319
does like that, you can imagine a lot of people
778
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:50.480
are suddenly like, well I hello, then mister Buns, you know,
779
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:55.839
and so yeah, so I ended up like sign up
780
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:57.880
with BMG and then and then that's really where the
781
00:33:57.960 --> 00:34:00.799
professional songwriter things started, because it's like, Okay, I've I've
782
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.440
had cuts and almost had a couple of singles, but
783
00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:07.079
just totally out of weird happenstance kind of for some
784
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:09.039
like you know, I'm out there shop of my thing
785
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:09.800
in the streets.
786
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:10.119
Yeah.
787
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:13.360
And then now it was it was like, Okay, now
788
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.159
we're gonna like put you with artists and try to
789
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:18.159
get you songs recorded. And you know, I want that
790
00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:20.239
to happen too, because I've seen the money you can
791
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:22.159
make from those kinds of things. And I was saying, like, man,
792
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.039
that keeps me off having to quite hit the road
793
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.519
as hard as I was. And so then that sort
794
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.960
of began begin sort of professional songwriting part of my career, yeah,
795
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:31.840
or added to it.
796
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:36.440
One thing I do want to discuss with you is comedy, yeah,
797
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.400
but I want to tie it together with music.
798
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:38.719
Yeah.
799
00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:46.800
Yeah, I you're really funny. Well, first of all, it
800
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:48.440
would be bad if you weren't and you were like,
801
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:53.719
I'm a I'm a comelean. When did that start for you?
802
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:56.719
First of all? Was that as young as music? Were
803
00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:59.079
you interested in that? And did you just find yourself
804
00:34:59.119 --> 00:34:59.920
making people laugh?
805
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:00.800
Yeah?
806
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:05.360
Or were you not to get too like heady or existential?
807
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.119
Were you covering up for something else? Trying to be
808
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:12.840
funny for other people? Yeah, and then where does that
809
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:14.599
does it inform your songwriting?
810
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:15.519
Yeah?
811
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:16.840
Add any more questions.
812
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.639
I think I can do this, Actually, I yeah.
813
00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:23.000
I think I've kind of always been funny a little bit,
814
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:29.480
you know, and then probably like early teenage years. Uh,
815
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.159
this is so funny. This is such an incriminating story.
816
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:35.079
But like you know, I wasn't exactly always a hit
817
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:36.800
with the ladies. That's really hard.
818
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.159
Not always, but now you are, well, you got to
819
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:43.320
ask the ladies. That's a ladies question. We can pull
820
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:45.679
the ladies. We'll do that. Don't actually that I'm not
821
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:47.519
gonna want to know what they say. We're really don't
822
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:47.960
want to know what I say.
823
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:52.559
But so I remember going to this youth group retreat
824
00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:56.039
and again, like my friends would have said, like Dave's funny,
825
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.920
but not like capital that funny, Like he's funny, he's funny,
826
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:01.840
day's funny. He's an interesting guy, normal funny.
827
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:03.320
He's normal, he's normal.
828
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:10.119
Funny, approachable, funny. But we went on this retreat and
829
00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:15.360
they were doing a skit and the skit was this
830
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:17.280
dating game kind of thing that was on TV at
831
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:18.920
the time, and they were like, man, we need a host,
832
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.679
and I was like I'll do it, and we improved
833
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:26.199
the whole skit, and I remember looking out at one
834
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:29.119
point and all of the pretty girls were laughing, and
835
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:32.880
I was like, this is some interesting This.
836
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:35.320
Isn't derail or no, no, no.
837
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:39.639
That was when like the more thunder got summoned, and
838
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:41.400
and it was just like, oh that this is an
839
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:43.599
interesting way to get people to like you or to
840
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:46.199
And I don't think it was some deep seated like
841
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:48.760
I don't like myself. It was just like, whoa, that
842
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:51.280
is effective, man, Like look at this.
843
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:51.480
You know.
844
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:53.519
And so I think from then on it was a
845
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:55.599
little bit of like, oh, maybe I'm like a little
846
00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:58.679
funnier than maybe some people are. And I would do
847
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.119
skits and do that, and all through college I was
848
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:03.039
doing that kind of stuff in front of people. And
849
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:05.159
so the way it's funny that you asked the way
850
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:07.079
you did, because the way it ties into music is
851
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:09.719
the only reason I was as confident to go play
852
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:11.320
shows when I didn't know how to sing was I
853
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:13.719
was just so confident being in front of people because
854
00:37:13.719 --> 00:37:15.679
I knew I could make them laugh. And so basically,
855
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:17.400
if you had been to my shows back then, the
856
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:19.679
way that they rolled was a ton of stories, ton
857
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:21.880
of stories song. I was terrified to sing a ton
858
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:24.400
of stories, ton of stories, terrifying three minutes of a song,
859
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:26.480
story story, because the stories would.
860
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:28.239
Calm me down. Interesting. And then he'd be like, all right,
861
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:29.000
freaking I gotta sing.
862
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:30.920
And see, I feel like I'd be the opposite, like
863
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:33.880
I'm more comfortable at singing the song, yeah, and if
864
00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:36.280
I have to tell a funny story, yeah, I'm in
865
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:36.760
my head.
866
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:39.360
The whole No, I'm very much the opposite still to
867
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:41.760
this day in some ways. And so for me, it
868
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:43.599
was like that was the thing that calmed me down.
869
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:46.440
And so the shows were kind of almost like a
870
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:48.400
it was just kind of a free for all, and
871
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:51.119
so people really enjoyed coming because they'd hear some songs, whatever,
872
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:53.400
but they'd also see me just kind of like being
873
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:57.039
an idiot and telling stupid stories, and so it really
874
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:02.920
helped me get comfortable doing it, you know. And and
875
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:07.000
so you know, they don't in my brain, they don't
876
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:08.599
meet like I'm not one of those guys that's trying
877
00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:10.960
to write Adam Sandler songs because I don't think i'd
878
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:14.519
actually do it very well. But they absolutely participate together
879
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:15.639
in the live setting for me.
880
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:19.400
Okay, it's like stage banter from yeah exactly during the music.
881
00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:19.719
Yep.
882
00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:22.840
But did you actually have a comedy bit?
883
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:25.760
I've done stand up shows, yeah, you have probably twenty
884
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:26.280
or thirty.
885
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:30.000
Really would you keep doing that? Is that something you like?
886
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:33.360
I really like it. It needs more attention than I
887
00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:36.559
give it, but I love doing it. It's every now
888
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:38.199
and then somebody will hire me to come to a
889
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:41.360
show and it's, oh my gosh, it's fun.
890
00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:42.719
It's so much fun.
891
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:45.559
Would you do like a would you film one?
892
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:49.199
We did? You did? You can actually rent it on me?
893
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:51.440
I knew that I did all my research was No.
894
00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:55.079
It's really obscure. We did a city winery show gosh, man,
895
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:57.679
it's been probably seven years ago, oh wow, and recorded
896
00:38:57.679 --> 00:38:59.440
it and it was really great. It was a good show.
897
00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.079
And what's the response, Like, do you have like comedy
898
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.000
fans that don't think? So you don't think something?
899
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:05.199
You know?
900
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:06.920
You know? It's tricky about that not to get like
901
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:10.079
all esoteric. But I think the thing that's tricky about
902
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:14.159
humor when you're a musician is like it's not like
903
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:16.559
people take it for granted because that sounds really sad.
904
00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:21.440
But I think because it's juxtaposed to something else. It
905
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.360
doesn't sort of just stand and I don't want it to.
906
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:25.360
I don't want people to think I'm a comedian but
907
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:28.320
like it I'm not. I mean, I know they Why
908
00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:30.239
don't you want them to think that? Because I work
909
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:32.639
too hard at songwriting and sing Why can't you do both?
910
00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:34.039
I think people I.
911
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.320
Don't know if people understand that. I really don't why.
912
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:38.679
I think we need to know what something is to
913
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:39.880
really be able to ingest it.
914
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:40.559
A lot of times?
915
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:43.880
What about like the Jared Leto's and I mean, you know,
916
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:46.119
I would continue that argument. It's like the it's like
917
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:49.199
the Steve Martin thing. You know, do be so good
918
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.199
they can't ignore you.
919
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:51.199
Well, that's but.
920
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:58.320
You can make a lot of examples for a funny
921
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:01.599
person that writes serious music. I think you can make
922
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:03.800
a lot of examples for either an actor that does
923
00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:08.920
music or Adam Sandler does funny music. But it's it's
924
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:11.800
tricky when you get into like, oh, he's really funny,
925
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:13.519
and then he has really I mean, you have Todd
926
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:15.519
Snyder and those kind of guys who are incredible at it,
927
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:18.079
but they're not comedians. They're not doing stand up shows
928
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:20.480
on their own really, So it's a it's a weird
929
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:22.639
it's a weird space time continuing thing.
930
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:26.840
Well, there's that, there's that like people comedians and musicians
931
00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:29.280
talk about it all the time. Yeah, how as a
932
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:31.639
musician you wish you could be a comedian and comedians
933
00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:35.559
want to be a musician's And I'm still pretty I
934
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:38.920
haven't gone down that road enough to like I say,
935
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:41.679
I'm fascinated with that, but I haven't really looked at
936
00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:44.880
looked at it too hard. What do you think that is?
937
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.360
What's the connection between comedy and music?
938
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:48.440
I don't know.
939
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:52.039
It's all performing, it's all expression.
940
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:52.920
I don't know.
941
00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:56.639
I mean it's a because they seem really they seem
942
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.960
really opposite and really close together.
943
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:05.559
They elicit extreme responses, I think, which is really really addictive. Yeah,
944
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:07.559
Like when you can stand on stage and see people
945
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:11.039
respond to either music or comedy, it's like that's a
946
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:11.800
weird power.
947
00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:13.199
Do you know what you want to know why I
948
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:14.800
want to be a comedian because you don't have to
949
00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:15.440
take anything with.
950
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:19.360
Bro, those shows you don't understand, like rolling up when
951
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.719
all you've got, when you don't have anything.
952
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:24.400
You have your clothes on, like you.
953
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:26.360
Walk out, and you're like, they're like sound checking, like, hey,
954
00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:28.440
what's up everybody, Cleveland, How y'all feel cool?
955
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:30.960
Like cool? You walk back? I mean it's it's five
956
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:31.880
hours still showtime.
957
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:36.440
Oh my god, it's a shoke. Yeah, literally, like, it's
958
00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:39.039
really fun. I want to do it again. I just
959
00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:41.000
got to figure out, you know, you have to build
960
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:45.440
these sets, which is pretty ambitious and overwhelming. Although I
961
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:47.400
did do it tour w I did both, so I
962
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:49.679
did it too. Actually did hear at the Rhymen where
963
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:53.320
I did forty five minutes of music hard stop, fifteen minutes,
964
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:54.559
forty five minutes of stamp.
965
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:56.440
Oh you can do a variety show. Well, that's kind
966
00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:57.039
of what it was.
967
00:41:57.199 --> 00:41:59.360
And then I did fifteen more minutes of like I
968
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:01.079
did like guy gave another song, and then that was
969
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:01.440
a night.
970
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:02.840
It was really fun.
971
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:06.280
It was exhausting, I'm sure, man, you talk about like
972
00:42:06.280 --> 00:42:09.599
your brain just like try alting in your Yeah, it was.
973
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:11.400
It was really fun.
974
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:13.679
Though, a lot of planning, yeah, a lot of planning.
975
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:15.599
I would like to see that. Are you gonna do
976
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:16.000
it again?
977
00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:20.679
Someday? I think someday this will all make sense. Oh
978
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:24.840
you are good. You should have a podcast. I'm trying, man,
979
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:26.280
this is episode sixty five.
980
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:30.039
Wow, I'm so glad I wasn't sixty six. I don't
981
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:32.159
read that in my life. I don't want me.
982
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:34.880
I'm not sure who sixty six is gonna be to it.
983
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:37.239
Why it's six sixty six not sixty I know.
984
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:39.440
But we're halfway there, more than halfway.
985
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:42.119
There, more than halfway there. All right, I'll do what
986
00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:42.480
I can.
987
00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:46.079
Thank you, just sixty six point only that my life.
988
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:54.199
Oh my gosh, someday this all will make sense. Is
989
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:55.440
a really long song title?
990
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.400
It is. I love a long song title. You do?
991
00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:00.840
Oh yeah, tell us about that? Why do you love songs?
992
00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:03.119
Because I kind of came up like if you if
993
00:43:03.159 --> 00:43:05.920
you went to my I want to annoy the graphic designers. Yeah, yeah,
994
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:06.320
that's it.
995
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:11.480
When I was starting, like really really really getting into
996
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:14.239
writing my own songs, I was listening to just copious
997
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:16.599
amounts of folk, so it would be like Jonathan Brook
998
00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:20.760
or John gorka gun named Bibo, Norman, David Wilcox, a
999
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.679
lot of daddad and I just loved anything.
1000
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:26.039
Tell our listeners what that means.
1001
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:29.519
You just want to get down on some acoustic guitar work?
1002
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:30.320
Just get in a dagon.
1003
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:32.519
I need to show that to my sons. Yeah.
1004
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.199
So it's tuned D A D G A D and
1005
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:37.480
it's just kind of like a lot of really great
1006
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:39.480
folk artists use that tuning. It's I think it's an
1007
00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:42.280
Irish tuning kind of comes from that world. So it
1008
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:45.440
feels very kind of folk and you know, big and open.
1009
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.320
It feels like it's easy to play.
1010
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:50.360
It's really easy to play. It's easier to play I
1011
00:43:50.360 --> 00:43:52.239
should say, really good people who play it. It's it
1012
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:56.400
can be really tough. But so for me that you know,
1013
00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:59.199
that's that folk world where like everything's got like, you know,
1014
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:01.400
a ton of words, and it's really big words. And
1015
00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:03.840
so I like when I see the back of a
1016
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.519
CD or an album and I'm like, ooh, long title, man.
1017
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:07.679
That's a song of will us do first?
1018
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:11.199
Really, just because it's probably going to be more lyrically substantial,
1019
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:13.400
you know, so that I'm always kind of the more
1020
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:17.159
drawn to those songs, right, So I'm like, I'm way
1021
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:17.559
down with that.
1022
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:20.800
As a podcaster, this is a really it's a really
1023
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:22.039
annoyance listen.
1024
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:25.239
I ask you to carry a burden, and I appreciate
1025
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:25.719
that you do.
1026
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:29.119
I'm being a jerk. It's a great song. I love
1027
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:33.119
the song, I really really love the song. Why don't
1028
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:35.000
we go ahead and listen to the work tape and
1029
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:38.320
then well we'll kind of go through what it all means.
1030
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:40.840
This episode of work Tapes is brought to you by
1031
00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:43.480
east Side Music Supply. East Side Music Supply is a
1032
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:46.440
music shop in Nashville, Tennessee. It's my go to spot
1033
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:50.039
for all things gear related, whether it's guitars, bass guitars.
1034
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If I need work on my gear, if I need
1035
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to buy a pedal that's really cool and awesome, that's
1036
00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:57.519
super unique. They've got that kind of stuff there. They've
1037
00:44:57.559 --> 00:45:00.639
got cool merch audio gear, all the stuff. You're dealing with,
1038
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:03.599
the best people in the industry. Unlike those big box
1039
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:06.199
stores that don't really care, east Side Music Supply cares.
1040
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:08.719
That cares about your tone, They care about your experience.
1041
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.119
Go to Eastside Music Supply dot com. If you're not
1042
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:13.480
local to Nashville. They will hook you up. Tell them
1043
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:15.800
when you go that Brandon from work Tape sent you.
1044
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:41.880
Tracks in the trapway. Then he lives well, she Rosie.
1045
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:54.559
Halfway too early, A surgeons the like me. There's a
1046
00:45:54.679 --> 00:46:01.320
god then she pres too. She prees from wady leave.
1047
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:05.920
To the boys out of school, I'll suddenly listen to this.
1048
00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:11.440
Tid to.
1049
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:17.960
Life, said bad sense.
1050
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:24.039
So Day he swears this was all basic.
1051
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:48.159
Steamful of Saint Thad and Daddy used to body back
1052
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:52.400
and when all his beliefs strong as his scheme.
1053
00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:57.880
And she keeps so.
1054
00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:02.840
Three and through the bad way, she.
1055
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:08.800
Keeps saying boys out of school or suddenly to up.
1056
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:24.039
Hard to be with him fasts. So Day swears this
1057
00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:38.039
one of mats of the satin, something that's broken.
1058
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:44.440
She didn't know could be. Now she lives with her
1059
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:48.480
decision that she did me.
1060
00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:13.719
Way of good bye is a patient a candle. Way
1061
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:22.079
of good bye is a patient a candle. But wad
1062
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:32.119
of goodbye, Supicion is again waiting goodbye Supicion again as
1063
00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:32.719
much as.
1064
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:34.000
Your trip but.
1065
00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:46.760
Cool.
1066
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:49.920
Okay, So for the work tape, I want to say,
1067
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:54.280
without sounding like a jerk again, that I actually like
1068
00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:55.079
the work tape better?
1069
00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:57.280
Do you really? Yeah? Oh? I love hearing that I
1070
00:48:57.440 --> 00:48:57.840
really did.
1071
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:01.599
I listened to it on the way here again and
1072
00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:03.199
I kind of a beat them and I was like,
1073
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:06.400
oh man, but I'm kind of a sucker for work tapes.
1074
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:11.079
And I think that it would be bad if I
1075
00:49:11.119 --> 00:49:13.559
didn't like I don't. I don't really said this much
1076
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:15.440
a guy Haye word and this is a dumb This
1077
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:16.639
is such a dumb idea.
1078
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:24.599
No, I think I liked it because, don't get me wrong,
1079
00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:27.519
Like the the production version is amazing. I told you
1080
00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:32.920
that the strings are insane, are beautiful, and they bring
1081
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:35.400
out a different quality in the song and make it
1082
00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:40.440
a different song. But the acoustic guitar stuff you did,
1083
00:49:41.480 --> 00:49:46.679
the doubling up the vocal and the work tape, even
1084
00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:49.239
some of the harmonies are a little bit different, or
1085
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:50.840
at least maybe the production kind.
1086
00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:51.840
Of buries them sting there.
1087
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:55.719
And so you can kind of hear all of these things,
1088
00:49:55.760 --> 00:49:57.400
and then you do a guitar thing at the end
1089
00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:00.039
that you don't do on the other one, and and
1090
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:03.800
it's like, oh, that's so interesting. Yeah, and maybe it's
1091
00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:06.159
because of a be it Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
1092
00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:10.320
but tell us about the song, Yeah, what is it
1093
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:14.880
like painting us a picture of like when you had
1094
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:18.199
the idea, did you co write it? If so, who
1095
00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:19.880
wasn't and what was going on.
1096
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:20.400
In the room.
1097
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:23.440
So that's this you're gonna wish you had an asset
1098
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:25.079
because it has this really long explanation.
1099
00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:27.840
But I'll try to so long title, so I expect
1100
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:32.039
nothing less so appropriate he of it.
1101
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:40.400
So about in December of twenty twenty two, I was
1102
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:44.039
cleaning my studio. My wife had given me Paul McCartney's
1103
00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:46.920
lyrics books Cuture, which he is. He's quoted as saying
1104
00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:49.119
the clothes still ever get to write an autobiography. Basically,
1105
00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:52.639
he splunked all of his properties across the world to
1106
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:56.039
find artifacts and memorabilia and fun little trinkets. And while
1107
00:50:56.079 --> 00:50:57.639
he did that, he found like all these old lyrics
1108
00:50:57.679 --> 00:50:59.920
and stuff. And so it's a really cool couple of
1109
00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.519
books because it's pictures and that he found that he
1110
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:04.440
didn't know he had. It's pictures of lyrics he didn't
1111
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:06.920
know he had. But then with his songs, So each
1112
00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:09.559
each chapter, if you want to call it, that is
1113
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:12.400
a song, the lyrics song, and then him talking about
1114
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:15.280
the songs and sometimes some of the memorabilia that had
1115
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:19.239
something to do with this song. Sitting in my studio cleaning,
1116
00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:20.920
it was actually New Year's Day because I was like,
1117
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:22.360
we were sitting around the house, like I need to
1118
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:24.199
do something, go crazy. So I went back there and started,
1119
00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:25.840
and I was like, I'm just gonna play because I
1120
00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:28.519
realized I hadn't done like a Beatles proper deep dive,
1121
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:30.719
and so I just turned to one of my studio
1122
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:33.519
speakers and was cleaning, just starting with record one, and
1123
00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:37.000
I kept finding myself stopping and going that's a cool
1124
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:39.519
chord progression and like grabbing the guitar and going whoa
1125
00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:42.159
and like okay. And so after a while, I was like,
1126
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:44.880
I need to like I need to like give this
1127
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.000
some like grown up attention. And so I decided that
1128
00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:53.840
in twenty twenty three, is that true, or maybe it's
1129
00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:55.559
one year back, It doesn't matter, whatever year that was,
1130
00:51:57.760 --> 00:51:59.639
I was just gonna listen to Beatles. That's all I
1131
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:02.719
did twenty twenty two for a whole year, A whole
1132
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:04.800
year that's literally all listening to my kids and everything,
1133
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:09.000
and it was I mean, there's just not words for
1134
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:10.079
what I learned in that year.
1135
00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:10.679
And still am.
1136
00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:13.840
I still listen mostly to the Beatles still because I'm
1137
00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:15.960
writing my second record that's like this, But I decided
1138
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:17.079
I'm just gonna listen to it, and then I'm going
1139
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:19.760
to make a record inspired by this, by the what
1140
00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:22.400
I've learned. And so the record is called Feather Brain
1141
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:25.840
Wealth Motel and it's what great title, thanks, it's what
1142
00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:28.880
that's what Someday this Wall makes Sense is on. And
1143
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:33.039
so when I was writing these songs, I kind of
1144
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:35.760
had archetypes in my brain, like, you know, like I
1145
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:37.840
sort of had a board of Beatles songs I loved,
1146
00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:39.400
and like, what would it be like if I tried
1147
00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:41.519
to write my version of Let It Be? What would
1148
00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:43.039
it be like if I tried to write my version
1149
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:45.800
of Blackbird or whatever? You know, songs I love? And
1150
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:50.199
so Someday This Will Makes Sense was sort of informed
1151
00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:51.639
by that, but it was just kind of written in
1152
00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:55.440
that time. I did like the story part of it,
1153
00:52:55.639 --> 00:52:57.400
you know, I like kind of the eleanor Rigby thing,
1154
00:52:57.440 --> 00:53:01.760
which obviously that plays into the action of the album version,
1155
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:04.440
but it was just like I just it was a
1156
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:06.559
real story, not a real story. It was how I
1157
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:08.559
imagined a real thing that had happened in the world,
1158
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:10.239
and a friend of mine had gone through a really
1159
00:53:10.280 --> 00:53:13.719
hard thing, and so that was me just kind of
1160
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:15.880
sessing it out so lyrically. It's just this kind of
1161
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:18.440
like take on what had happened, and I'd written it
1162
00:53:18.519 --> 00:53:19.639
like I did with the you know that kind of
1163
00:53:19.719 --> 00:53:23.119
do do that arpeggiated thing, and I really liked it.
1164
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:25.280
I thought it was really cool. But it didn't quite
1165
00:53:26.559 --> 00:53:28.760
It didn't quite fit in what I would have thought
1166
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:31.360
the rest of the record Beatles tip of the Hat did.
1167
00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:33.800
It would have been a little too like Elliott Smithy
1168
00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:34.320
or something.
1169
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:35.000
It just felt like.
1170
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:39.840
And so, driving to I was working with Ben Shive
1171
00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:41.679
on a couple of things. He was playing on a
1172
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:46.840
couple of parts of the record, and so I was driving.
1173
00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:48.360
I was like, man, what can we do to this
1174
00:53:48.440 --> 00:53:49.639
song and make it better? And I was like, what
1175
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:51.719
if we just did it like eleanor Rigby? Like that's
1176
00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:53.960
obviously right in the middle of what I'm trying to do.
1177
00:53:54.800 --> 00:53:56.239
So I got there with him and I was like, hey,
1178
00:53:57.199 --> 00:53:58.920
instead of playing on top of this, what if we
1179
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:01.880
scraped the whole thing and you just like write strings
1180
00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:03.480
over this with me? And he was like great, So
1181
00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:05.599
we did like an afternoon session. I got in the
1182
00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:06.920
car and I was listening to the roughs and it
1183
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:08.920
just wasn't right. I was like, why is this was
1184
00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:13.840
a little too orchestrated, which was my fault, And so
1185
00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:15.159
I drove home that night, I was like, ah, this
1186
00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:16.760
may have been a bad idea, but we had another
1187
00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:19.119
day booked, and so driving the next morning, I listened
1188
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:21.599
to eleanor Rigby really closely, and I realized the reason.
1189
00:54:21.639 --> 00:54:23.239
One of the reasons of a million reasons, but one
1190
00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:24.920
of the reasons it's such a genius song is it's
1191
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:30.000
such digestible hooks everywhere, right, you can sing the string
1192
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:33.320
part at every moment, you know what he's doing. The
1193
00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:36.199
story's obviously really compelling, and so when I got to Shives,
1194
00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:37.519
I was like, hey, I know what we're doing wrong.
1195
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:40.239
We need to break this down to it's small, Like,
1196
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:43.559
let's just sing string parts and that's the part every time,
1197
00:54:43.639 --> 00:54:44.920
and he was like great, and then it was like
1198
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:48.519
off to the races. It was so fun that whole day.
1199
00:54:48.559 --> 00:54:51.599
We had a blast, came together exactly like I wanted,
1200
00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:56.639
and it really served a very specific purpose for me,
1201
00:54:56.679 --> 00:54:58.320
which was like I wanted to have something that kind
1202
00:54:58.320 --> 00:54:59.519
of felt like that, and then I had this song
1203
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:02.199
that could do it. And but you know when you
1204
00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:05.079
juxtapose those to the demo and that they're really different,
1205
00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:07.760
and that's that song was as much a reason that
1206
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:10.880
I did the year after we released it, we did
1207
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:13.400
a deluxe edition with a bunch of the demos, and
1208
00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:15.440
that demo was almost the whole reason I did that
1209
00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:17.880
deluxe version because I was like, I just wanted people
1210
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:19.480
to hear it because they're so different.
1211
00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:24.519
I really love I really think, not just because of
1212
00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:26.920
the podcast, but I really think artists should do more
1213
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:28.360
work tape releases.
1214
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:29.239
Yeah. Yeah.
1215
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:30.960
I was talking to Matt Words about that when he
1216
00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:33.760
was on because he sent me four songs to choose
1217
00:55:33.800 --> 00:55:36.599
from and I was like, dude, I can't choose. These
1218
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:39.840
are great work tapes, yes, and you should put them
1219
00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:43.239
out for fans. Yeah, I would love I would love that,
1220
00:55:43.639 --> 00:55:44.159
I think too.
1221
00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:46.320
I think one of the things that's great about work
1222
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:47.840
tapes and I think you can see it in the
1223
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:51.920
demo that I did. You really I think you feel
1224
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:54.039
the heart behind it a little better most of the time.
1225
00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:55.400
It's not always a perfect vocal, and.
1226
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:57.840
That's kind of what it is, like there's a certain passion,
1227
00:55:57.960 --> 00:55:59.719
like a little sparkle in there that's like.
1228
00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:03.920
But it also shows you how things can start here
1229
00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:06.639
and end here, yes, which fast. And I mean, obviously
1230
00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:09.320
I do this professionally, but it fascinates me, like I
1231
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:13.639
love seeing the genesis to the ending of like, oh man.
1232
00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:14.079
How did y'all?
1233
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:15.880
Oh, so y'all just ditch that whole part and write
1234
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:17.320
a new part for this? Or you did this and
1235
00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:20.360
didn't do this, and so you know, I think for
1236
00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:22.719
that one, as much as maybe any song I've ever written,
1237
00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:24.960
the beginning in the end, we're just so different.
1238
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:26.679
We changed keys, mean everything.
1239
00:56:26.840 --> 00:56:30.320
So h I didn't catch that, Yeah, because because Ben,
1240
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:32.039
I mean, this is the stuff I geek so hard
1241
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:34.760
about it being a musician. He's like, Hey, that key
1242
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:37.519
is tough for string players. Can we drop it? And
1243
00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:40.679
I was like really, He's like yeah, it's like you
1244
00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:42.159
don't want to play in a couple of keys for
1245
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:44.280
string players and you are on one of them. And
1246
00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:45.920
so we dropped it, which I'm glad we did because
1247
00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:48.280
it's easier to seeing. But you know, just little things
1248
00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:51.280
that you know. Matt Mangano one of my dear friends,
1249
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:53.480
I call him Mango, but he's the bass player and
1250
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:57.920
Zach brownband. Mango has always said he's like, the key
1251
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:01.239
you write it in matters because I would move stuff around.
1252
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:01.639
It does.
1253
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:03.360
He played bass for me for years and years in
1254
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:05.960
the read and I always think about that, because it's
1255
00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:10.280
like the resonance, the where your voices when you sing it.
1256
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:12.679
And and so when Ben she said hey can we
1257
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:13.000
drop it?
1258
00:57:13.039 --> 00:57:13.480
I was coming.
1259
00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:18.239
But also sometimes when you drop it or change the key,
1260
00:57:18.400 --> 00:57:22.559
the song becomes better or different, easier to sing, like
1261
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:25.760
oh this is a better song now, yeah, because I'm able,
1262
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:29.679
I'm not straining as hard whatever, Like the emotion gets
1263
00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:31.400
more like capsulated.
1264
00:57:31.639 --> 00:57:38.519
Yeah, no, was that right? Capsulated? Encapsulated? There you go.
1265
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:41.599
That's a great word. You should have a podcast. Actually,
1266
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:43.840
let's start that right now. Thank guys. Welcome to Dave Barnes.
1267
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:47.280
Glad to have you. Dave Barnes. Work tapes, Working at tapes,
1268
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:51.000
Working at tapes, that's your workout tapes.
1269
00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:55.239
You can do it, you could do I remember running
1270
00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:56.000
when time too?
1271
00:57:56.320 --> 00:57:57.159
Are you going to go my way?
1272
00:57:57.199 --> 00:57:59.079
And I was like, this is exactly the tempo I
1273
00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:01.159
run to And it was a really weird moment. I
1274
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:03.039
just kept hitting redo and I was like, oh, my gosh,
1275
00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:05.199
should I do this pattern? It's like the perfect see
1276
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:06.159
that'd be mine?
1277
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:09.480
What does need to listen? More metal? When you my gosh.
1278
00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:14.920
My favorite lyric in the song there's a God she
1279
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:17.760
prays to but if she prays wrong.
1280
00:58:18.079 --> 00:58:20.760
He will leave to Yeah, will he leave to? Will
1281
00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:24.639
he live? Yeah? That's there, it is. I'm just sent
1282
00:58:24.679 --> 00:58:29.880
and read it. It is my favorite lyric. Yeah, thanks,
1283
00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:33.239
Can you expand that? Yeah?
1284
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:36.400
What where did that come from? I think that that
1285
00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:39.639
it's kind of it's an obvious statement to me.
1286
00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:44.320
But what is that?
1287
00:58:46.039 --> 00:58:46.199
You know?
1288
00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:54.760
I think relationships like moms and dads that split up
1289
00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:56.880
are just really tough.
1290
00:58:57.199 --> 00:58:57.800
And I think I.
1291
00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:01.880
I think a lot of about kids in those scenarios.
1292
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:04.239
You know, they're kids and kids figured out and they're okay.
1293
00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:10.800
But yeah, I just try to think about this girl
1294
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:15.280
that was walking through that and going, man, that's got
1295
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:18.119
to be so much to figure out, you know, especially
1296
00:59:18.159 --> 00:59:20.840
when it's kind of a rough split and the kid
1297
00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:24.199
doesn't know all the story of it and everything. And
1298
00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:26.400
then how does she how does that affect how she
1299
00:59:26.599 --> 00:59:31.079
views her parents and than God if she thinks about
1300
00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:34.000
God and is God like dad or God like mom
1301
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:37.719
or who? You know? Who take what is what personalities
1302
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:40.280
he take on in that, you know? And it just
1303
00:59:40.360 --> 00:59:43.519
made me And so it was really fun is not
1304
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:46.000
the right word, but if there's a better word for
1305
00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:49.039
fun to write, it was like I don't write songs
1306
00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:50.920
quickly as much anymore, but I feel like that one
1307
00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:52.599
was pretty quick because it was just kind of all
1308
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:55.639
in there, and I love it.
1309
00:59:55.760 --> 00:59:56.960
I'm so proud of that song.
1310
00:59:57.039 --> 00:59:58.719
It's really fun to play because I played a lot
1311
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:01.639
more like the demo obviously, and me and Destin Ransom,
1312
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:05.480
who's been on the road for forever, we do it's
1313
01:00:05.559 --> 01:00:07.679
kind of like a cinematic version of it. He plays
1314
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:10.159
very much, sort of like a soundscape thing in the background,
1315
01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:13.039
and it's so much fun to play, right, so much
1316
01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:17.400
fun to play, But it ends up being more kind
1317
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:19.079
of like the album or the demo.
1318
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:20.119
Yeah, of the work tape.
1319
01:00:20.360 --> 01:00:25.559
Yeah, for that line, it feels like you're whoever the
1320
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:30.400
character of the song is is associating God with whoever
1321
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:33.280
left or whatever happened.
1322
01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:35.840
Yeah, which I think is what we do. Yeah. Well, yeah, we.
1323
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:38.360
Kind of naturally, like, if we're believers, we're going to
1324
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:45.800
associate a lot of times wildly incorrect association of who
1325
01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:49.719
God is. Yeah, because we're putting it on our.
1326
01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:54.519
Hurts. Yeah, I'm trying not to use the word trauma.
1327
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:57.719
I love that, thank you, but I just you know,
1328
01:00:57.800 --> 01:01:00.320
another lyric that I really love in that that so
1329
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:02.480
that both of the pres are very similar lyrics but
1330
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:03.320
barely changed.
1331
01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:05.159
And it goes from her.
1332
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:09.000
It talks about, you know, the character and the boys
1333
01:01:09.039 --> 01:01:11.960
at are school all seemed so deceiving and the second
1334
01:01:12.039 --> 01:01:16.079
time it's appealing. And I think just seeing how you know,
1335
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:19.039
like how your view of the same thing can change.
1336
01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:20.719
Pain sets in things.
1337
01:01:21.679 --> 01:01:26.519
If this song is specifically about separation in a relationship
1338
01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:30.679
context or a marriage, your view having gone through that,
1339
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:35.159
your view does yeah change, Yeah, you will. You had
1340
01:01:35.239 --> 01:01:38.119
this like a preconceived notion, like when things were fine,
1341
01:01:39.239 --> 01:01:41.559
of who God is, who your family is, who your
1342
01:01:41.679 --> 01:01:44.960
spouse is, who your kids are. When you walk through it,
1343
01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:48.880
everything just goes yeah, and you're like, oh and now
1344
01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:52.320
I get to figure all this out again. Yeah midlife. Yeah,
1345
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:55.480
it's not very fun. Yeah, and you have all these questions.
1346
01:01:55.599 --> 01:02:00.519
That's why this song is like very feeling is not
1347
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:04.800
the right word to me, resonant, it resonates with me, yeah,
1348
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:09.159
and that in that way. So there's like all these questions.
1349
01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:12.159
And the uh.
1350
01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:19.320
The waight of goodbye line isn't patient or kind, but
1351
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:23.760
love is. Yeah, And you just repeat that over and over,
1352
01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:28.440
which I think everyone needs to hear. Yeah, we're all
1353
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:30.880
kind of told goodbye in different ways. Whether your marriage
1354
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:33.559
lasts or whatever happens, you're going to go through stuff.
1355
01:02:35.239 --> 01:02:36.280
Love is patient and kind.
1356
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:38.880
It's it's one of the I talk about this when
1357
01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:42.280
I play it live. I'm so thankful for songs like
1358
01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:45.079
that because, like I think, as I get older in
1359
01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:49.519
life gets heavier, man, I'm thankful I have someplace to
1360
01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:52.000
put that. Yes, And this song, as much as any
1361
01:02:52.039 --> 01:02:55.480
song I've ever written, was that it was like I
1362
01:02:55.719 --> 01:02:58.519
really struggle with this thing, and it was so such
1363
01:02:58.519 --> 01:03:00.039
a gift to sit and be able to sit and
1364
01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:03.880
get all this out in a way that I hope
1365
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:08.000
is really beautiful and helpful or at least causes people
1366
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:08.360
to think.
1367
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:08.920
Yeah.
1368
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:11.559
And it's and I mean, here we go with the
1369
01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:13.159
tea word, but it was really therapeutic for me, It
1370
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:14.840
really was. It was like a way for me to
1371
01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:16.079
exercise some things.
1372
01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:20.519
It's great you have a lot of songs that are hopeful,
1373
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:24.039
Like I tend to write songs that are more sad
1374
01:03:24.159 --> 01:03:28.239
or whatever. I mean, the bulk of them, Like, it's
1375
01:03:28.280 --> 01:03:30.519
easier for me to tune into that and write there.
1376
01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:33.800
Yeah, and what is for me too idly and you know,
1377
01:03:33.960 --> 01:03:35.920
maybe this is full circle with what you said about
1378
01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:38.199
the humor thing, but I think that's why I don't
1379
01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:41.519
ever want to cross streams is because to me, music
1380
01:03:41.639 --> 01:03:42.360
is just really like.
1381
01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:45.880
There's plenty of dark. There's plenty of dark humor.
1382
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:47.679
There, there is no there's tons, but you're still trying
1383
01:03:47.679 --> 01:03:49.480
to make some people laugh. You're not trying to make
1384
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:50.639
them cry. That's what songs.
1385
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:53.159
But you want to make them cry, and music you do.
1386
01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:55.079
And so I think for me that's why I'm like
1387
01:03:55.119 --> 01:03:57.519
people always why don't write funny souths Like, I don't
1388
01:03:57.639 --> 01:03:59.480
go to music for that. I want music to like
1389
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:04.800
make me laugh, dance, have fun cry, think right, you know,
1390
01:04:05.239 --> 01:04:07.400
It's like I want it to really move me in
1391
01:04:08.119 --> 01:04:09.559
different ways than humor does.
1392
01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:12.280
Sometimes I want it to be funny. It is interesting,
1393
01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:12.840
isn't it.
1394
01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:16.079
Like when you think about like a comedy song feels
1395
01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:18.800
a little more campy, then yeah, like it doesn't work
1396
01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:19.079
for some.
1397
01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:22.440
Reason like Randy Newman and Tom Waits. I mean, there's
1398
01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:24.639
probably like five people ten people in the world who
1399
01:04:24.679 --> 01:04:27.559
can really nail that super weird thing where it's like
1400
01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:31.079
really funny but also poignant or like those.
1401
01:04:31.039 --> 01:04:34.039
Old country songs that are just hilarious and they work
1402
01:04:34.159 --> 01:04:36.440
yet they're really hooky, they're fun. Yeah yeah.
1403
01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:38.360
But for me, I think that's why I like to
1404
01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:40.599
keep them, you know, to quote Offspring as we always do,
1405
01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:43.760
to keep them separated, because like, I don't know, that's
1406
01:04:43.800 --> 01:04:45.679
just not what I go to it for. So I
1407
01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:47.280
like to think, no, this is where I can be
1408
01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:51.639
serious and really have these heavy contemplative thoughts. But and
1409
01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:54.320
then I'll be funny doing my characters over there or whatever.
1410
01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:56.400
But the two of those to me just get a.
1411
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:00.639
Little like totally. You know, you just released a new
1412
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:04.840
song called thinking about You. It's a cool song. Oh thanks,
1413
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:06.280
It's kind of rock and roll.
1414
01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:08.840
Yeah. I like shadow Boxers. That's cool.
1415
01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:11.800
Yeah, it's fun. That project is really interesting. So so
1416
01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:14.199
you know, for you should have known not to say it,
1417
01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:15.199
because now I got to tell you about it.
1418
01:05:18.239 --> 01:05:20.320
The how did you do that?
1419
01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:23.239
I don't know, it's just like my eyes rolled back
1420
01:05:23.239 --> 01:05:27.320
for a second. That's old Jesus, I uh, you know,
1421
01:05:27.559 --> 01:05:31.119
probably ninety well, my last like gosh, a few records
1422
01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:33.480
I've written. I write most of my stuff by myself
1423
01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:35.719
because it's like my safe place. I really protect that,
1424
01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:38.599
Like I like to be able to just really disappear
1425
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:40.320
into my world and write these songs.
1426
01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:42.480
So you don't like co writing, No, I do. I
1427
01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:44.519
love it. You hate people? I just hate people.
1428
01:05:44.599 --> 01:05:48.960
Yeah, And so white males oddly of course top of
1429
01:05:48.960 --> 01:05:51.719
the list, naturally, naturally because I don't like me right,
1430
01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:53.079
and that's a whole or how much time we got
1431
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:56.519
to live out? Yeah no, but it's just kind of
1432
01:05:56.559 --> 01:05:58.079
where I can get as weird as I want. And
1433
01:05:58.119 --> 01:06:00.559
so I like not having to worry about somebody's going
1434
01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:02.360
Why are you not to deal with the awkward silence?
1435
01:06:02.480 --> 01:06:02.639
Yeah?
1436
01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:04.880
Yeah, And then I do so much co writing anyway,
1437
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:07.679
so that scratches that itch. But this project was really
1438
01:06:07.719 --> 01:06:09.800
funny because I was like, I want to release a
1439
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:12.239
song a month, but I've just done the Beatles thing.
1440
01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:15.679
I'm writing the next one that's kind of inspired by it.
1441
01:06:16.159 --> 01:06:17.719
So I was like, those don't make sense for something
1442
01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:20.000
like this. So how what songs gout I released? And
1443
01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:21.159
I was like, well, you know, I've been writing with
1444
01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:24.400
people now for fifteen years fourteen years or something. I
1445
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:26.800
have all these songs I love that just never got cut,
1446
01:06:27.039 --> 01:06:29.239
like I love them that like I will me and
1447
01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:32.079
the kids will they'll ramly go hey, play symphony and
1448
01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:34.159
I'm like, oh, it's like a little demo whatever, and
1449
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:36.440
they'd love it. So I was like, what if I
1450
01:06:36.599 --> 01:06:40.239
just like splunked that catalog fifteen years fourteen years worth
1451
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:42.679
of co writes, and surely there's ten songs that I
1452
01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:43.519
feel like I could do.
1453
01:06:43.639 --> 01:06:44.000
Oh yeah.
1454
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:47.400
And so this year I've been releasing every month one
1455
01:06:47.440 --> 01:06:49.239
of these songs. And so in January it was a
1456
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:52.480
song that what do we do in January? Oh?
1457
01:06:52.519 --> 01:06:52.639
Oh?
1458
01:06:52.760 --> 01:06:56.239
A song I wrote with some people. And now I'm
1459
01:06:56.239 --> 01:06:58.079
forgetting what it is. Isn't that fun? That's what's fun
1460
01:06:58.119 --> 01:06:59.679
about life. Tell us about some people.
1461
01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:03.880
They can really be anything, and that's what's fun about it. Right, No,
1462
01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:06.679
oh my god, what was the first song?
1463
01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:08.440
Uh?
1464
01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:09.400
Oh oh oh?
1465
01:07:09.519 --> 01:07:11.760
Some people's kids. And so this is what I love
1466
01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:14.239
about this project that it's a I would never write
1467
01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:16.719
this song for me. It's it's really fun. It's kind
1468
01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:20.079
of like this, you know, kind of boppy thing wrote
1469
01:07:20.119 --> 01:07:23.199
with Andrew Robertson Parker Welling and you know, we were
1470
01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:25.039
going to pitch it to Thomas Hdt or somebody whatever.
1471
01:07:25.119 --> 01:07:29.119
Nobody ended up cutting it. But my kids love this song,
1472
01:07:29.440 --> 01:07:31.159
like wear me out about this song, right.
1473
01:07:31.159 --> 01:07:33.239
It's a good sign. That's a great sign. It's a
1474
01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:35.960
great sign. So that was one. February is a song
1475
01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:37.800
called Symphony that I wrote with Kelsey Ballerini.
1476
01:07:39.519 --> 01:07:39.639
Uh.
1477
01:07:39.960 --> 01:07:42.079
This month is a song with the shadow Boxers. Next
1478
01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:43.960
month it's Maggie Rose. But there are all these songs
1479
01:07:43.960 --> 01:07:45.760
that I love, but the artists just were like, man,
1480
01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:47.480
it just doesn't make sense with this project or whatever,
1481
01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:48.760
and then you know, kind of move on, you forget
1482
01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:51.400
about these things. But I always remember it well, and
1483
01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:52.960
so it's gonna be called the Songs that Got Away,
1484
01:07:53.159 --> 01:07:55.599
and it'll waterfall in a project. But it's been really
1485
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:58.880
fun to release stuff that I'm like, oh, it gives
1486
01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:00.719
me a chance release it. People not go like what
1487
01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:02.440
are you doing because I'm like no, no, like this
1488
01:08:02.559 --> 01:08:03.280
is the context be.
1489
01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:06.119
Like oh that's awesome. Yeah. And it's been really really fun.
1490
01:08:06.760 --> 01:08:08.440
I like to have this kind of safe place for
1491
01:08:08.519 --> 01:08:10.719
stuff that I'm like, I wouldn't really put this on
1492
01:08:10.800 --> 01:08:12.760
a record of mine because it's just enough.
1493
01:08:12.639 --> 01:08:14.639
Off to the left to right or maybe even down
1494
01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:15.360
the middle too much.
1495
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:18.000
And so this whole year, each month is like a
1496
01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:20.560
me going back and finding something I'm like, oh, this
1497
01:08:20.840 --> 01:08:22.720
was cool, but they didn't record it.
1498
01:08:22.840 --> 01:08:24.760
Let me do it, you know. I love that. Yeah,
1499
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:25.159
it's fun.
1500
01:08:25.199 --> 01:08:27.439
I've always wanted to do an album or a project
1501
01:08:28.279 --> 01:08:32.079
called songs my friends wrote, Oh like I had nothing
1502
01:08:32.119 --> 01:08:32.520
to do with them.
1503
01:08:32.720 --> 01:08:33.479
I just want to do it.
1504
01:08:34.239 --> 01:08:36.479
It's made me think about it's funny. I promise I'm
1505
01:08:36.520 --> 01:08:39.000
not stilling that idea, but you can when I thought, wow,
1506
01:08:40.079 --> 01:08:41.199
we have it on camera.
1507
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:43.640
So you can call it something different. Would you just
1508
01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:45.119
do that? You're so creative?
1509
01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:49.000
Well, I thought about the songs that got away, and
1510
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:50.760
then I was like, it'd be fun if I could
1511
01:08:50.760 --> 01:08:52.800
live another you know, long time and had time to
1512
01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:56.279
do it. But like songs that other people wrote, songs
1513
01:08:56.319 --> 01:08:58.600
that you know, but just to give some context, because
1514
01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:00.760
I would love I mean, my friend have some of
1515
01:09:00.800 --> 01:09:03.079
those talented friends in the word, and they'll play me
1516
01:09:03.199 --> 01:09:06.479
songs that I'm like, this is a joke. Why has
1517
01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:08.399
nobody cut that? Or why don't you put it out
1518
01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:11.199
of it? Exactly like I just would love that. And
1519
01:09:11.319 --> 01:09:13.399
so it's funny you said that, because I was like,
1520
01:09:13.479 --> 01:09:15.960
that'd be man, and especially for someone who writes all
1521
01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:16.479
their own stuff.
1522
01:09:16.479 --> 01:09:18.520
I'll make it with you you don't have to. It's fine.
1523
01:09:19.079 --> 01:09:19.439
Goal with this.
1524
01:09:19.840 --> 01:09:21.920
I'm trying to lay in this lin just to be direct.
1525
01:09:22.079 --> 01:09:24.039
I'm sorry, I'm right here. We tell you mine, Tom,
1526
01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:28.840
what have you got coming up? Dave Barnes and tell
1527
01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:29.800
us about Dadville?
1528
01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:32.720
Yeah, so we'll do Dadville first?
1529
01:09:32.760 --> 01:09:32.960
What what?
1530
01:09:33.159 --> 01:09:33.680
It's so fun?
1531
01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:36.119
So I do with John mclough and another insanely talented
1532
01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:38.920
singer songwriter. I mean, John, what a what a joke?
1533
01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:41.000
That guys? What a joke?
1534
01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:44.079
Yeah, it's just a joke of talent. He's just these
1535
01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:48.479
copious amounts of giftedness. Great represents itself and laughter to
1536
01:09:48.560 --> 01:09:58.199
me manifests and you believe in jovial response, he he
1537
01:09:58.279 --> 01:09:58.439
and I.
1538
01:09:59.479 --> 01:10:00.479
We have asked all that.
1539
01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:01.920
But when we just have people want to talk about
1540
01:10:01.960 --> 01:10:05.039
being dads and moms like we we've sort of it's
1541
01:10:05.079 --> 01:10:08.560
not exclusive now at all, and it's been so much.
1542
01:10:08.640 --> 01:10:10.720
We just have so much fun doing it. It's really
1543
01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:13.279
it's a great show. Oh thanks, it's fun.
1544
01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:17.640
Yeah, we have so many that we're just like we
1545
01:10:18.039 --> 01:10:19.960
it's become a joke with us, Like we text each
1546
01:10:19.960 --> 01:10:21.960
other so many times after a podcast like isn't this
1547
01:10:22.079 --> 01:10:24.920
so fun? Is like that's such a common thing after
1548
01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:27.319
our podcast, and I think that is always kind of
1549
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:30.279
a north star for our continuing to want to do it.
1550
01:10:30.359 --> 01:10:34.239
I have a question about podcasting. Okay, since we both
1551
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:36.840
do this. Yeah, these are just mics I've told yeah,
1552
01:10:37.159 --> 01:10:40.039
they're not Yeah, they're not magic voice devices.
1553
01:10:40.359 --> 01:10:44.479
They are pretty Actually, I take that back, they're not magic.
1554
01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:47.800
My question is this, do you ever?
1555
01:10:47.960 --> 01:10:50.960
I've talked to Micah about this before, and I'm like, man,
1556
01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:54.560
sometimes I spend an hour with somebody that I don't
1557
01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.960
know beforehand, like you, and then I feel like we're
1558
01:10:58.199 --> 01:11:00.760
like good friends. Yeah, oh yeah, and then I want
1559
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:03.880
to text them later. No you, and and then I'm like,
1560
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:07.800
find people you can text me. I thank you. But
1561
01:11:08.039 --> 01:11:10.319
I also don't want to be like, do you know
1562
01:11:10.359 --> 01:11:11.359
what I mean? Oh?
1563
01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:11.600
I do?
1564
01:11:12.039 --> 01:11:12.239
I do?
1565
01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:15.479
Because you spend an hour with somebody, I sort of.
1566
01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:17.279
Don't know how to do that though. That's the good
1567
01:11:17.319 --> 01:11:20.119
and the bad of me is that I will overinundate you,
1568
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:21.560
and that's just how I am.
1569
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:25.239
That's fine with me, but but I think that I
1570
01:11:25.359 --> 01:11:30.600
think it's interesting because it's almost like you spend an
1571
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:33.640
hour with somebody talking about probably one of their most
1572
01:11:34.399 --> 01:11:38.319
passionate things. That they do ye songwriting. Yeah, it's kind
1573
01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:40.199
of like we're on a date. And then I just
1574
01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:42.520
want to keep texting it because like, oh we connected
1575
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:44.960
on this and that and you made me laugh and
1576
01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:46.199
I kind of like you.
1577
01:11:46.279 --> 01:11:49.920
Dude or whatever. I know, and it's does that happen
1578
01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:51.000
when you interview people?
1579
01:11:51.199 --> 01:11:52.800
And in fact, I feel bad for some of the
1580
01:11:52.880 --> 01:11:56.119
guests that I really feel because I will follow up
1581
01:11:56.159 --> 01:11:57.119
and be like, hey.
1582
01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:59.199
What's up. Yeah, you know, and want to see my
1583
01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:03.560
new tattoo. Yeah it's a few yeah, but you.
1584
01:12:03.640 --> 01:12:08.760
Know, thankfully, I've made like good friends from that podcast.
1585
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:11.159
Like I've had people that I like communicate a decent
1586
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:14.319
amount with, right, which is really fun. Is fun that
1587
01:12:14.479 --> 01:12:16.399
takes it to such a different level. At that point,
1588
01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:18.199
it becomes something more than just leads to.
1589
01:12:18.399 --> 01:12:21.000
Podcasting is so weird. It's so bizarre. It's a weird
1590
01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:22.319
format that has taken off.
1591
01:12:22.600 --> 01:12:22.840
It is.
1592
01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:27.439
Yeah, everyone has one, Yeah, and I think probably everyone should.
1593
01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:30.560
Yeah, I mean, just do it. I don't have enough
1594
01:12:30.640 --> 01:12:32.680
time in the day for the stuff I want to
1595
01:12:32.720 --> 01:12:34.920
listen to me neither. There's so much good stuff.
1596
01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:37.760
There's too much. And then you know, as far as
1597
01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:39.960
what's coming up, we got Dad Villas and that I'm
1598
01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:41.720
doing these songs onnths. That's a big Oh. Can I
1599
01:12:41.800 --> 01:12:43.920
tell you what I'm really excited about that I announced today?
1600
01:12:44.039 --> 01:12:44.439
You can't.
1601
01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:46.640
I don't know when this is coming out. Definitely sixty
1602
01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:48.000
fifth episode.
1603
01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:53.119
It'll be out, not the sixty sixth. It'll probably be
1604
01:12:53.199 --> 01:12:54.000
out next week.
1605
01:12:54.199 --> 01:12:57.520
Okay, well we announce this today. Space Time Continuing is
1606
01:12:57.520 --> 01:13:01.760
weird and podcast, but yes, I'm doing this is really
1607
01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:02.479
really fun.
1608
01:13:02.520 --> 01:13:03.279
I'm doing for me.
1609
01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:07.760
I'm doing July eleventh and July twelfth at Third and
1610
01:13:07.840 --> 01:13:10.640
Lensley here in town. I'm doing Brother Bring the Sun,
1611
01:13:10.640 --> 01:13:12.800
which is my first record. It's its twenty first anniverse,
1612
01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:14.479
but we're calling it twenty it's because it's nice and
1613
01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:19.239
even full. Playing it in entirety on July eleventh, Oh cool.
1614
01:13:19.359 --> 01:13:22.039
July twelfth, it's the fifteenth year anniversary of What We
1615
01:13:22.119 --> 01:13:23.960
Won't When We Get, which is the guy gave me
1616
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:26.640
you record. We're doing that the next night and it's entirety.
1617
01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:29.000
Do you want to put on your best advertising voice
1618
01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:30.640
and do an ad spot and I'll.
1619
01:13:30.520 --> 01:13:33.439
Play I literally will do this. I'll play this ad spot.
1620
01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:36.760
When is it? In July July eleventh and twelfth. Okay,
1621
01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:39.239
we can just keep playing it until the show. Okay,
1622
01:13:39.399 --> 01:13:41.520
that's that's all I want need to do. What let's
1623
01:13:41.680 --> 01:13:45.680
test your from there we go. You've heard him, you
1624
01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:48.960
love him, a voice that has peppered your memories for
1625
01:13:49.079 --> 01:13:53.319
two nights, July eleventh and twelfth, Dave Barnes, Please, brother,
1626
01:13:53.399 --> 01:13:56.199
bring the sun the eleventh and what we want when
1627
01:13:56.279 --> 01:13:59.560
we get on the twelfth in their entirety with a band,
1628
01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:04.439
come experience joy, laughter and the beauty of music. We'll
1629
01:14:04.479 --> 01:14:08.680
see you there. Wow. Felt great to me. I would
1630
01:14:08.760 --> 01:14:11.000
clap if it was so awkward, well, and your brother
1631
01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:12.159
would think it is the end and he would cut
1632
01:14:12.159 --> 01:14:16.920
it off over the class. Right, that's editing. I will
1633
01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:17.279
play that.
1634
01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:21.279
So I'm excited. I've never done that, and I'm like
1635
01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:24.079
really really excited about it. So that's kind of you know,
1636
01:14:24.199 --> 01:14:26.000
add these songs a month things and that's kind of
1637
01:14:26.039 --> 01:14:27.079
the next thing.
1638
01:14:27.159 --> 01:14:29.199
I'm going to come to that one hundred percent.
1639
01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:32.720
Sweetheart, Thanks for being here, Thanks for having me. I
1640
01:14:32.840 --> 01:14:36.000
want to say this, I love anybody that celebrates and
1641
01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:36.800
talks about music.
1642
01:14:37.479 --> 01:14:38.720
I think it's a huge anybody.
1643
01:14:38.960 --> 01:14:41.680
I'd mean that, I really do, because I think there's
1644
01:14:41.720 --> 01:14:44.079
something about today. I'm not going to We're not going
1645
01:14:44.119 --> 01:14:46.000
to do this. I'm not going to derail this whole thing.
1646
01:14:46.039 --> 01:14:48.439
But we kind of talked about this. I think in
1647
01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:51.000
a day where music is free, which means you experience
1648
01:14:51.039 --> 01:14:52.680
it really differently because you have a stake in it,
1649
01:14:52.800 --> 01:14:55.319
and hey, it's whatever, it is, what it is. I
1650
01:14:55.520 --> 01:14:57.560
just love when people will stop and say, let's like
1651
01:14:57.680 --> 01:14:59.880
talk and think about this, because it's a it's an
1652
01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:03.000
incredible thing. And so I'm really glad you do this,
1653
01:15:03.079 --> 01:15:03.239
and it.
1654
01:15:03.279 --> 01:15:04.880
Means you have me come on. That means a lot.
1655
01:15:05.279 --> 01:15:06.239
I think. I agree.
1656
01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:11.640
I think that music is getting lost in the ocean
1657
01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:15.479
of songs that are released every day. Yeah, and you know,
1658
01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:19.520
it's hard for me not to ask everyone I interview,
1659
01:15:20.359 --> 01:15:23.560
how are you doing this? I know, how are you saying? Afloat?
1660
01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:26.159
How what do you think it's going to be like
1661
01:15:26.279 --> 01:15:27.479
in five to ten years?
1662
01:15:27.800 --> 01:15:30.479
I could talk for I have more thoughts than you
1663
01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:35.000
could imagine. I'm sure, I'm sure. It's a really it's
1664
01:15:35.039 --> 01:15:39.000
a daunting time. It's also a very uh.
1665
01:15:40.600 --> 01:15:43.640
Trying to think the right word. The subject of that
1666
01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:46.840
is very dramatic.
1667
01:15:47.079 --> 01:15:49.560
Well, and so I will say this and then we
1668
01:15:49.640 --> 01:15:51.319
can yeah, whatever you want to do.
1669
01:15:54.520 --> 01:15:56.439
So my friends that aren't in the music space like
1670
01:15:56.520 --> 01:15:59.039
this will come up and I will hear myself and
1671
01:15:59.079 --> 01:16:01.279
I'm like, let me tell you, with the most annoying
1672
01:16:01.319 --> 01:16:03.319
sound in the world other than the dumb and dumber sound,
1673
01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:06.880
is hearing a musician lament how hard music is.
1674
01:16:07.239 --> 01:16:10.159
Nothing is more uninteresting? Right right? No, by just start.
1675
01:16:10.520 --> 01:16:12.560
You have a dream job, and I get that, but
1676
01:16:12.640 --> 01:16:14.960
I think where it lands for my friends is I go, Okay,
1677
01:16:15.159 --> 01:16:17.680
let me make this palatable to your job. So if
1678
01:16:17.760 --> 01:16:20.000
I have a friend who does like commercial real estate
1679
01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:23.439
and owns properties, his company goes in, they build, they
1680
01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:26.479
make it. You know, I'm like, imagine one morning you
1681
01:16:26.560 --> 01:16:29.159
wake up and in your inbox is all of your properties.
1682
01:16:29.640 --> 01:16:32.880
The bank whoever you're working with, says, hey, you're going
1683
01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:35.279
to be making instead of five thousand bucks a month
1684
01:16:35.359 --> 01:16:37.520
on that property, you're making five hundred bucks a month,
1685
01:16:37.560 --> 01:16:41.199
and that's for all of your properties. And they're like,
1686
01:16:41.840 --> 01:16:44.680
what do you mean. I'm like, that's the email. They're like, hey,
1687
01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:46.760
you're gonna make one one hundredth we can even go
1688
01:16:46.800 --> 01:16:48.840
that far. You're making five bucks on your properties now,
1689
01:16:49.479 --> 01:16:51.079
and that's for all of your properties for as long
1690
01:16:51.079 --> 01:16:53.319
as we know, and you have to work harder and
1691
01:16:54.520 --> 01:16:56.640
because of it. And that is when I see my
1692
01:16:56.720 --> 01:16:58.920
friends go, wait, is that what it's like? I'm like,
1693
01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:01.399
I can show you the math. So and they're never
1694
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:03.640
I'm not. I don't say that because they chastise me.
1695
01:17:03.680 --> 01:17:05.760
They're wonderful, but I just want them to understand, like,
1696
01:17:06.159 --> 01:17:09.560
I'm not doing the thing where it's like no one
1697
01:17:09.760 --> 01:17:13.520
cares anymore. Right, It's like literally the math changed, yeah,
1698
01:17:13.640 --> 01:17:17.520
kind of overnight. And so you know, realtor friend, like,
1699
01:17:17.600 --> 01:17:19.439
can you imagine if someone came and said, you're going
1700
01:17:19.479 --> 01:17:22.359
to make you know, one fiftieth of what you used
1701
01:17:22.399 --> 01:17:24.479
to make, one twentieth of what you used to make
1702
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:26.960
from now on, and we don't know if that'll ever change.
1703
01:17:27.399 --> 01:17:30.039
What do you think is going to happen? Man?
1704
01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:32.479
You know, I think the hope is this because I'm
1705
01:17:32.479 --> 01:17:36.800
a hopeful guy. I think people prioritizing fans is going
1706
01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:39.279
to be a big deal, Like direct consumer stuff is
1707
01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:41.479
my opinion for the way for what FAD's doing something
1708
01:17:41.640 --> 01:17:45.520
like that exactly that I think it's giving fans Because
1709
01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:47.640
here's the thing I'll talk about myself. If I love
1710
01:17:47.680 --> 01:17:50.159
a band, I'll give you my money. Yes, I will
1711
01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:51.920
part with it quickly and easily. If I love you,
1712
01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:53.399
I want to do that.
1713
01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:54.039
I love what you.
1714
01:17:54.199 --> 01:17:57.279
I've spent way too much money on radiohead box.
1715
01:17:58.399 --> 01:17:58.920
This is what I mean.
1716
01:17:59.199 --> 01:18:01.000
But I think the problem nowadays is we don't as
1717
01:18:01.119 --> 01:18:03.239
artists really have a place for people to do that.
1718
01:18:03.319 --> 01:18:05.479
There's not a table where I can go, hey, I
1719
01:18:05.560 --> 01:18:07.359
have these things and people go, oh my gosh, I
1720
01:18:07.399 --> 01:18:09.439
would love to buy those things from you. And so
1721
01:18:09.479 --> 01:18:11.640
I think we've got to get better at finding and
1722
01:18:11.720 --> 01:18:13.119
not in a manipult of way, because I think people
1723
01:18:13.119 --> 01:18:14.560
watching this vide be like, oh, that sounds kind of
1724
01:18:14.640 --> 01:18:16.159
I don't mean. I mean just like, let's make great
1725
01:18:16.199 --> 01:18:18.279
stuff you want to get from me, just like any company, right,
1726
01:18:18.800 --> 01:18:21.479
And so I think like when you're giving away your
1727
01:18:21.560 --> 01:18:24.960
main commodity for free, then you got to get really
1728
01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:27.319
creative about either how to make it not for anymore,
1729
01:18:27.520 --> 01:18:30.840
which means a lot of things or other experiences or
1730
01:18:31.359 --> 01:18:34.880
interaction pieces that people can purchase. And so I think
1731
01:18:34.920 --> 01:18:37.079
it's a pretty but I do think I do think
1732
01:18:37.119 --> 01:18:37.720
there's hope in that.
1733
01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:38.199
I really do.
1734
01:18:38.319 --> 01:18:40.279
I think that's a really interesting thing to think about.
1735
01:18:40.279 --> 01:18:42.000
It's kind of like how do you go to your
1736
01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:43.960
people who love what you do and want to support
1737
01:18:44.079 --> 01:18:45.359
you and go like, hey, here's a way to.
1738
01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:46.239
Do it and they great.
1739
01:18:46.520 --> 01:18:50.720
And that's one thing I keep texting Thad Cockroll and
1740
01:18:50.840 --> 01:18:53.119
telling him how much his episode that he did on
1741
01:18:53.239 --> 01:18:56.199
this meant to me personally. I mean, we got tons
1742
01:18:56.239 --> 01:19:00.159
of feedback on that one. But for I've listened to
1743
01:19:00.279 --> 01:19:02.479
it myself, and they're hard for me to listen to
1744
01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:04.800
it because I'm on them, so it's weird, but I
1745
01:19:05.239 --> 01:19:09.600
keep listening to to get what he was talking about.
1746
01:19:09.720 --> 01:19:13.439
One of the things he discussed was you got to
1747
01:19:13.479 --> 01:19:16.560
choose who you lose. Wow, you need to focus on
1748
01:19:16.720 --> 01:19:22.119
your people, like who is As an artist, you can't
1749
01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:25.640
you know, you can't aim for everybody.
1750
01:19:26.039 --> 01:19:26.880
You'll miss everybody.
1751
01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:28.920
No, that's I mean, that's yeah, that's one of the
1752
01:19:29.000 --> 01:19:31.359
agual tenants. And I think it's true. And I think
1753
01:19:31.399 --> 01:19:33.760
that's what you know, Like anytime I tell people that
1754
01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:35.840
you know it's about thirty five hundred bucks if you
1755
01:19:35.920 --> 01:19:38.760
own your master for a million streams. Yeah, that is
1756
01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:41.880
People cannot digest that. I've watched my friends like their
1757
01:19:41.920 --> 01:19:43.840
eyes start bleeding and they roll back and they're like,
1758
01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:47.720
I don't make a million, and you know how hard
1759
01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:49.800
it is to get a million streams on Spotify it is.
1760
01:19:50.119 --> 01:19:53.119
That's what I mean by working hard, you're getting less
1761
01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:55.600
math and having to work well.
1762
01:19:55.600 --> 01:19:56.880
And I think too, And this is the last time
1763
01:19:56.880 --> 01:19:58.960
I say, because again I can, I can beat this
1764
01:19:59.239 --> 01:20:00.119
horse into a blue.
1765
01:20:01.920 --> 01:20:02.239
I think.
1766
01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:04.600
I think that's what is the hardest for me is
1767
01:20:04.680 --> 01:20:06.800
feeling like I came up in a time where the
1768
01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:08.720
energy you put into it you kind of got out
1769
01:20:08.760 --> 01:20:11.079
of it a little bit. I mean it wasn't exact transference,
1770
01:20:11.119 --> 01:20:11.760
but it was close.
1771
01:20:11.960 --> 01:20:12.119
You know.
1772
01:20:12.239 --> 01:20:14.199
It's like you played a bunch of shows and made
1773
01:20:14.239 --> 01:20:18.319
really great records with really talented producers and whatever. You know,
1774
01:20:18.439 --> 01:20:20.680
it had a shot. And these days it's just it
1775
01:20:20.760 --> 01:20:23.439
doesn't work loud that you're you're you're taking the same
1776
01:20:23.640 --> 01:20:26.640
quality of product to the end point and then chucking
1777
01:20:26.640 --> 01:20:29.159
it in the Grand Canyon and praying to God it
1778
01:20:29.279 --> 01:20:32.239
catches a breeze and floats for a while. You just
1779
01:20:32.359 --> 01:20:34.880
have no agency over anymore. I think that's what breaks.
1780
01:20:34.920 --> 01:20:36.279
And a lot of people watch this play yeah you do,
1781
01:20:36.479 --> 01:20:40.159
and okay, sure, like you don't. You know, I feel
1782
01:20:40.159 --> 01:20:41.960
a label they have agency if you have people that
1783
01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:44.079
have connections to do, but your ability to make really
1784
01:20:44.119 --> 01:20:45.680
great music and feel like, I feel like this is
1785
01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:47.479
good enough that if people hear it, they'll love it.
1786
01:20:47.920 --> 01:20:51.479
It's just not it's not as as surefire anymore. And
1787
01:20:51.520 --> 01:20:53.720
so I think it's just humbling when you think of
1788
01:20:53.760 --> 01:20:56.319
a way forward, because you're like, oh, making great stuff
1789
01:20:56.479 --> 01:20:58.000
doesn't it doesn't matter.
1790
01:20:58.119 --> 01:21:00.800
Yeah, And part of the entertainment thing, like the illusion
1791
01:21:00.880 --> 01:21:03.520
of entertainment is that, oh, well, Dave's had a number
1792
01:21:03.560 --> 01:21:05.800
one song. He writes to this person, this person, this person,
1793
01:21:05.840 --> 01:21:09.520
this person, So it's all fine, yeah, and that's.
1794
01:21:09.880 --> 01:21:12.000
Well, that's the humbling piece. And I think that's where
1795
01:21:12.600 --> 01:21:14.880
artists have really got to figure out if they're okay
1796
01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:17.880
sort of putting themselves out there and going like, hey, like,
1797
01:21:18.319 --> 01:21:20.319
you probably have this image of me, which I appreciate
1798
01:21:20.399 --> 01:21:22.840
because you assume best because you think I'm really good,
1799
01:21:22.880 --> 01:21:27.319
which is awesome. It means the world, right, But I'm
1800
01:21:27.319 --> 01:21:29.159
gonna let the curtain up a little here and show
1801
01:21:29.199 --> 01:21:32.359
you what is happening behind the scenes. And I'm oddly
1802
01:21:32.399 --> 01:21:34.319
comforted by when I talk to my friends about it,
1803
01:21:34.520 --> 01:21:37.079
brass tacks and they're like, how are you doing this.
1804
01:21:37.399 --> 01:21:40.520
Yeah, and I'm like, I don't know, most of us
1805
01:21:40.600 --> 01:21:43.199
have other jobs. Yeah, I know, side hustling and that's fine.
1806
01:21:43.359 --> 01:21:46.920
Yeah but yeah, well, thank you so much. Yeah, thanks
1807
01:21:46.960 --> 01:21:48.800
for having me on of course is great. Thanks for
1808
01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:53.439
being here tomorrow. Yeah it felt great. I'd love to
1809
01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:56.039
I went the first couple of things, but first draft
1810
01:21:56.079 --> 01:21:58.439
will run through is pretty good. Yeah, it felt good.
1811
01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:02.680
All right, you ready to write some songs?
1812
01:22:04.159 --> 01:22:05.560
We have another four out.
1813
01:22:07.079 --> 01:22:08.399
Now she leaves.
1814
01:22:11.640 --> 01:22:14.800
Work Tapes is produced by me Brandon Carswell, filming and
1815
01:22:14.960 --> 01:22:19.079
editing by Sean Carswell. Special thanks to Dave Barnes. Go
1816
01:22:19.239 --> 01:22:23.079
to Dave Barnes dot com for more information. Don't forget
1817
01:22:23.119 --> 01:22:25.800
to like and subscribe to Work Tapes wherever you listen
1818
01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:26.479
to podcasts.
1819
01:22:29.800 --> 01:22:38.199
The lead of goodbye isn't patient a candle, but the
1820
01:22:38.399 --> 01:22:42.560
lead of goodbye is a pition is again noodl.
1821
01:22:46.479 --> 01:22:48.439
The wait of goodbye, it's a pition again.
1822
01:22:48.560 --> 01:22:49.560
As much as your chat