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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,
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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.
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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,
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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and
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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working
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on purpose. Now Here is your
host Elise Cortes. Welcome back to Working
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on Purpose. Thanks for tuning in
again this week. I'm your host Elise
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Cortes, joining from Dallas, Texas, which is home base for me.
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This program is all about helping people
more meaningfully and productively connect with their work
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and equipping organizations do the same for
their employees. It was originally inspired by
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the meaning and work research I've been
doing over the last fifteen years and now
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compliments the work that I do at
Insignium, which is a global management consulting
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firm. Let me thank my meet
aupartner and sponsor first jobbing dot com.
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They are the leading locally focused job
board in the nation and are dedicated to
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helping employers find quality talent in their
own backyard and giving jobs to control of
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their search so they can find work
close to home. Great partnership. Thank
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you jobbing dot Com. Last week, if you missed the show live,
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you can catch it on podcast.
We were on the air with Martha Parker,
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who was president of m Urge,
a corporate wellness and management firm based
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in Houston, Texas. She technically
supports customers by offering ergonomic assistance and design,
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redesign and retrofit of new and existing
office and industrial workspaces. We've talked
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about her field of ergonomics, the
four ms she addresses in the work she
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does, and now she works with
her clients to improve the comfort and productivity
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of their work. I learned a
ton from her. With us this week
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is Evan Robb, who is the
principal of Johnson Williams Middle School in Baryville,
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Virginia. He is the author of
the Principal's Leadership source book, Practices,
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Tools and Strategies for Building a Thriving
School Community, and also maintains a
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blog called the Rob Review Blog.
He joins us today from Winchester, Virginia.
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Principal Rob, Welcome to Working on
Purpose, Alise. I am so
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excited to be here this evening.
Please feel free to call me Evan.
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Okay, well do I'm absolutely excited
how we you know, we connected through
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social media, and so I'm excited
to talk about how social media has been
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a tremendous influence on me and helped
me further to find what working to purpose,
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working working for purpose means to me
as a principal, but also as
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a as a person. I love
it. I absolutely love it, Evan.
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Yes, I'm tickled pink that we
found each other on Twitter, and
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we also have a friend in common. Mary. What's Mary's last name,
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Doctor Mary Howard? Doctor Mary Howard. Yes, give a shout out to
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her. She's fantastic. So,
speaking of shout outs, here, would
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you just give us a quick introduction
of yourself and sketch your early career begeting
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as a teacher. I always liked
to give our listeners a little bit of
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context for who's speaking to them.
I will do that, and you know,
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tonight, what I'd like to do
is kind of frame up. I'm
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hoping that. I'm sure some people
may be interested in me talking from a
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principal's perspective, but I will try
to broaden things and really focus around leadership
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and the choices that we make those
of us who are in leadership positions to
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be a positive influence for people who
are around us and encourage people to be
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excited and committed and passionate about the
work that they do. I started in
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education back in the very very early
nineteen nineties, and I started as a
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teacher. I actually started as a
teacher in the school where I am currently
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principal, and I worked as an
English teacher, a history teacher, a
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team leader, a department chair,
and had a wonderful experience at Johns Williams
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Middle School in the early to mid
nineteen nineties. And the Clark is a
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small county and so I needed to
see some opportunities elsewhere. In nineteen ninety
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eight, I went to Warren County, which is a neighboring county to where
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I currently work, and I served
as principal of a junior high school there
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through two thousand and At that time, I had an opportunity to apply and
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return back to Clark County, and
in July two thousand and four, I
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became principal of the building where I
began my teaching career, and I have
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been principal there ever since. You
know one interesting little fact about the school
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where I'm principal. I was much
the school where I'm principal of has only
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had two principles since nineteen ninety six, and that is a very very rare
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thing in our business. Certainly,
it's a business where a lot of turnover
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and people are not in jobs not
that long. But I and my predecessor
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have been able to have long careers
in Clark County, and we've enjoyed it
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very much. I can actually tell
just listening to your voice and just listening
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to you talk about it. I
absolutely love education, you know. And
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along the way, I've had some
really exciting opportunities. You know, I
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have had the opportunity to write a
book. I've had opportunities to speak all
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across the country. I speak about
goal setting and team building and leadership and
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and again the personal choices that we
make in leadership positions to be a positive
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influence for people about how to build
commitment versus using position authority for compliance,
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and also ultimately finding ways to adopt
the growth mindset into what I do and
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the people that I work with.
But like many people who I'm sure have
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been on your show, I am
very fortunate because I have had many people
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who have been an incredible influence to
me along the way to help me as
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I have moved through my career.
My number one influence would be my mother,
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who I believe is listening tonight,
Absolutely hey, Mom, who never
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give up on me and always pushed
me to to be what she thought that
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I could be. And because of
her and many other people who I've known
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throughout my life, I'm including my
life and I would certainly say something give
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a shout out to my life.
I've had a lot of great support along
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the way to achieve the goals that
I've won achieved professionally so important. It
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is so important to have that kind
of support and cheer section. But why
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education, Evan, You chose a
career in education, Why that field and
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how did it come about? I
took. I took an interesting route to
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my career in education. I think
that when I was growing up, Lisa
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spent I spent a lot of time
trying to resist that as my calling.
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My mother had been a teacher and
still is. My father was a teacher
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and a college professor. And when
I went through college, I decided to
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go into business, and I actually
went through a graduate program, an NBA
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program, thinking that I was going
to pursue a career in business, and
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then decided, probably when I was
just a bell done with that program,
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that that was not for me.
I was actually I realized, I had
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this sort of kismet moment that education
is where I need to be in education
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is what I want to do.
And I think one of the influences for
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me, although as a reflect on
it, I don't think I knew it
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when I was in my graduate program, but in my graduate program I believe
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it. Around in the MBA program, I came into contact with several professors
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who were huge advocates, although they
may not have known it. Of the
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growth mindset. I encountered people who
had incredible faith in me and encouraged me
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to be something that I may not
have thought that I could be. And
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I also encounter people who were very
supportive of me choosing a different direction over
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business and actually choosing education. So
I made a decision back in the very
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very early nineteen nineties to pack up
my MBA and pursue my teaching endorsement,
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and I've never looked back since then. It's ever made I love that you
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know, I have to ask those
kind of questions because I've been researching up
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people discover our career and find meaning
in it for years, so I couldn't
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resist fantastic response to I'm not surprised. There's such an element of passion in
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what you do, and the fact
that you went from business in an NBA
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program to becoming an English and history
teacher is fascinating. Yeah, it was,
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it was. It was an interesting
turn, but again it proved to
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be the best thing that I ever
did. But I learned so much in
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my business program about really more about
myself and about my capabilities and realized,
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you know, ultimately, of course, that that education was where I needed
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to be and I've been there ever
since. Well, I think that we,
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all of your students can can thank
you for that. So I'm I'm
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always curious when I think about You've
clearly made an impact in your field,
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Evan, You clearly are. You're
blazing a trail. So I'm interested to
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understand what problems are you most interested
in dressing and education today and why.
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That's a great question and it's something
I think about a lot and something that
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I work with my team on lot. You know one of the things,
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and this would apply just not of
course the education, but to anyone who's
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in a leadership position. Is I
am a big believer in working with my
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team and problem solving together. I
have a long since let go of the
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of the weight that I could carry
on my shoulders of varying responsibility for every
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single decision that's made within an organization. And I know at least that you're
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interested in strength Finder and helping people
kind of focus in on their areas of
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strength and how that can help build
an effective team. I've read that about
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you really interesting, and actually in
my school, we've done the strength Finder
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assessment with our leadership team to get
better understanding of our strengths and what we
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each can bring to the table.
So everything that I talk about is all
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because I have really great super people
that work with me. And I have
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a lot of people that work with
me who have skills that I do not
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have, but I am fortunate to
have them with me, and together we
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all make a fantastic sixteen. But
back to your question about the things that
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I really think about when I think
about education today and the trends that are
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happening in education, there are a
few things that come to my mind.
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Number One, I am extremely interested
in equity and opportunity for students. Big
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disparities across our country between areas that
are wealthy in areas that are not,
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and I am incredibly committed to trying
to level that playing field for students because
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I am have always been such a
believer that education is the pathway that helps
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students achieve any goals that they want
as they head off into life. I'm
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also very passionate about technology, as
you might know because we met through social
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media, which of course is as
a technology medium that's used a lot within
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schools. Also, but very interested
in transformative technology. I talk about that
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a lot with my staff and we
work on that a lot, focusing on
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how technology in schools can trans form
the way that we do business, so
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thinking different instead of thinking about inserting
technology to take the place of something.
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As an example, there are lots
of apps that allow a teacher to do
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a jeopardy game or something like that
within their classroom through technology, and it's
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no different than the same game that
I had. But when I look at
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Google and Google platforms and I see
how people can connect and access technology from
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anywhere in the world. I see
that it's incredibly transformative in something that I'm
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very, very passionate about. I
do believe that in the day and age
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that we live in now, a
great teacher will not be defined solely by
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their use of technology, but every
great educator will effectively use technology. And
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that's an interesting thing to think about, and it represents a big shift that's
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going on in business of education right
now, and it's very very exciting.
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I am also really really interested in
how to create environments that are creative and
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dynamic for students and staff, and
looking at the environments that we have within
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schools differently, a lot of in
schools no different than any other organizations,
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a lot of a lot of businesses, and a lot of schools do things
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because it's the way that they've always
done them. And one of the things
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that I'm really passionate about is taking
an honest look at the practices that we
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have within schools and looking at them
honestly and asking some tough questions. Many
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of them absolutely are great and certainly
worth carrying on, but I think there
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are the practices that exist within schools
and organizations that need to be looked at
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and maybe their time has come.
I think that one of the things that
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I often talk to staff about is
that we all carry sometimes a Linus's blanket.
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If you're a fan of peanuts,
he would carry his blanket with him
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everywhere and never let go of it. Sometimes we do need to let go
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of those things. And when we
let go of those things, I think
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we have a really much better chance
to find the personal greatness that's inside of
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us. And I think at the
end of the day, I am incredibly
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interested in developing greatness and people around
me, and of course providing opportunities for
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students. It just seeps through every
tone of your voice. Adin, For
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sure, there is so much.
Yeah, there's so much you said there.
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But I just want to grab one
thing really quick before I go on
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to the next thing I want to
get from you, and that is you
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mentioned you giving up some of these
long held practices. Can you give us
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maybe one example of a practice do
you think that really needs to be examined
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and considered to be let go of? Absolutely? Absolutely, Well, I'm
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going to give you two. I'm
going to make the first one really short
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than the second one will be a
little bit longer. I think extra credit
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is something that schools need to take
a really good look at. When my
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own children were in school, I
remember that they could bring in lots of
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boxes of shoes and get extra points
added to their tests when they should take
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the tests. But the extra points
that they would learn from bringing bringing in
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tissues were not necessarily giving a good
indication of their learning. And I think
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that's a practice that needs to be
looked at, and I commend my staff.
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I'm so proud of my staff because
we had tough conversations about that and
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we have them let go of that
blanket that certainly some people have held over
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time. The other thing that I
think needs to be looked at within education
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is grading. And of course,
you know, since you and I met
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on social media, I thought it
would be really cool tonight if I talked
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about people that I've connected with through
social media and how I've learned from them,
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I'm kind of integrate into our conversation. So a couple of people that
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I've learned a lot from on social
media is Rick Wrimelli and Tom Gusky,
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and they've done some amazing work on
grading and really get people to think differently
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about grading and shake up the paradigm
about grading. I think that grading in
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schools at times can become a chase
for point accumulation, and sometimes students are
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more motivated to achieve points than they
are to learn. And I think it's
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a really interesting conversation that schools can
go through, which is how do we
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make that shift, how do we
encourage students who are so focused on the
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grade to take more risks they're learning
in a safe way. And that's a
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big conversation. I know, it's
more than the scope of our chat tonight.
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That's certainly something that is very valuable
to talk about something I've been talking
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about my stuff for a long time. I mean, we're making good inroads
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in that. I really appreciate both
of those points, and those are phenomenal,
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and I'm glad that that you were
able to just kind of give us
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some particulars on how you would think
to change some of the status quo or
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long held traditions. Beautiful, Oh
my gosh. And I also appreciate that
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you shared a couple of people that
you learned from who you found on social
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media, because I know that's one
of your big things is using technology and
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also using using social media to connect
with students and parents. So what a
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gorgeous example. We only have a
couple of minutes before we need to go
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on on our first break here,
but I want to start with a little
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bit about this whole notion about your
interest in promoting a growth mindset among both
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your students and also your faculty.
Will you say a little bit about why
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that's important to you, How did
you discover it, why is it important
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to you? And we'll probably continue
the conversation after the break, but at
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least start us off. Yeah,
that's that's fantastic, you know, to
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frame up for our listeners who may
not know about that. There's there's really
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three kinds of mindsets. A fixed
mindset is the mindset that most of most
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people grew up with when they when
they went through education, and I certainly
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did. I can speak more to
that if we have some time a little
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bit later. Fixed mindset means I
will make there's determinations made about what I
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can do and what I cannot do. I'm a typically surface in the surfaces
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in the ear of mathematics, where
you often hear kids or families say,
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well, you know, I can't
do math. No one in my family
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could ever do math now. A
growth mindset is based off of the work
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of Carol Dewick from Stanford and it's
fascinating and it has to do with the
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mindset of you know, I'm not
good at math, but with a lot
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of help and a lot of support
and a lot of practice and with people
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that believe in me, I can
do math. Now. The next level,
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which I find very interesting, is
based off of the work of George
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Corros who I also connected with through
Twitter, and that would be the innervator's
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mindset, which is an extension on
the work of Carol Dewick. Where you're
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saying, with practice, I can
create So a growth mindset would be with
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practice, I can learn how to
play the piano, even though I'm not
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naturally good at the piano, with
lessons I can I can stick to it,
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and I can learn how to play
the piano. And apply an innovator's
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mindset to that. You would say, not only can I learn how to
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play the piano with practice and support, but I can create music that is
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gorgeous and a perfect way to cue
us that for the break. So hold
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is your thought for the next bed
here, I want to dive more into
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that. I'm your host Elise Cortes
with It on the air with Evan Robb,
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who is the principal of Johnson Williams
Middle School in Berryville, Virginia.
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He's the author of the Principal's Leadership
source book, Practices, Tools and Strategies
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for building a Thriving School Community.
He joins us today from Winchester, Virginia.
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We've been talking about his early career, why he got into education,
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what he sees needs to be changed. After the break will dive more into
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the growth mindset and some of the
other eras that he's working on with his
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students. Stay with us. Friend
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empowering the world. Voice America Empowerment
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development catalyst. She designs and delivers
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can bring her expertise to your organization. She will help ignite meaningful development within
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Motivate, change, succeed, Voice
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Working on Purpose with Elise Cortes.
To reach our program today, please call
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an email to Elise A. L
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back to Working on Purpose. Thanks
for staying with us, and welcome back
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to working on Purpose. If you're
just joining us. My guest is Principal
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Evan rob of Johnson Williams Middle School. He speaks across the country, and
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leadership and the effective principle, how
to improve literacy in schools, the digital
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digital teams, and the impact of
culture and positivity on work. He enjoys
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authoring his blog called the Rob Review
Blog. I'm your host, court has
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so just before the break, Principal
Rob, I know that you asked me
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to call you Evanbow. I'll go
back and forth just for fun. We
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were talking about the growth mindset and
you helped us understand the innovator's mindset.
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So I'm interested to understand what you
think the role of efficacy and collective efficacy
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is in contributing to the innovator mindset
or the growth mindset, either one.
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You know, I'm so excited about
our conversation tonight. Alas and efficacy and
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collective efficacy, they totally intertwine.
Growth mindset is the mindset that a student
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can have in a classroom if conditions
are set up within the school for that
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to happen. And part of the
way that that happens has to do with
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the belief systems that teachers have about
students that are in their classroom. But
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I would also say this totally connects
to any organization where people want to optimize
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and get the absolute best out of
people. Efficacy is simply the belief that
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a person has that they can make
a difference for someone else an education,
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that means the faith of a teacher
and the students that are before them.
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Collective efficacy is very powerful because that
has to do with the vibe or the
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feeling within the entire organization and how
the organization focuses and believes in the students
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that are there in the case of
the school. A lot of this is
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based off of some really interesting research
by John Hattie out of New Zealand and
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also by Peter DeWitt On, both
of whom I've also connected with with on
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Twitter. And John Hattie's research would
actually say that the number one thing that
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makes a real difference for students within
a school is the efficacy that a teacher
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brings into their classroom when they work
day in and day out with the students
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that are in front of them.
It is an incredibly powerful thing and it
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has a really strong effect because when
teachers believe that they can make an impact
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on kids, it coincides beautifully with
the growth mindset, because people who have
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a fixed mindset do not believe that
everyone can get it. Fixed mindset would
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lead people to believe into the sorting
and selecting mechanisms that many of us experienced
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when we went through school, whether
it was the Blueberg group when you were
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a little kid in elementary school and
which was the high reading group where you
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were in the higher of the low
reading group, or when determinations were made
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when you were in high school about
where you could go after high school.
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So I'm a big champion, always
been a big champion of bringing in people
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and making sure that we're developing people
that have a high degree of personal efficacy
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when they work with kids. And
I would say that when schools, and
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I think anyone who's listening to this
who is a principal would agree with me.
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You know, when the question always
comes up, you know, what
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do you look for when you're hiring
teachers to come into a building where you're
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looking for people that have content knowledge, that have great pedagogical skills, that
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have a growth bond set, that
have a really really high degree of efficacy,
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and also people that get what Eric
Scheneger, who's another person I connected
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with through Twitter with call the three
hours of Education, which is relationships,
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relationships and relationships those things are in
place, magic can happen in a classroom.
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Oh my gosh, this is just
brilliant to listen to you talk.
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This is right up my alley.
All no wonder we connected immediately as we
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did on Twitter. I just I
get your vibe. I appreciate your perspective,
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your passion, and I'm aligned on
these things. So one of the
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things that we talked about while we're
on break is talking a little bit more
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about how what you've been talking about
relates to some of these this limited perspective
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and belief that we have about math
in this nation. Will you say a
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little bit more about that? Oh? Will? I think that you know.
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And this is me talking from some
of the things that I'm incredibly passionate
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about. I believe that algebra is
a gateway course for students and opens up
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opportunities not only for advanced math in
high school, but there is certainly recent
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that points to students who successfully take
algebra in schools that they pursue higher level
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mathematics and in many cases, pursue
education after high school. So I think
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it's very important that schools make a
commitment to helping students learn and master algebra,
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but also all mathematics. But I
could think of no other subject when
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I think about subjects that occur in
school that are more entrenched in a fixed
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mindset than mathematics. There is not
a year that goes back that I will
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not have a meeting with a student, or sometimes a parent or even sometimes
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a grandparent who will who will communicate
that they've never been good at math,
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and no one in their family is
ever good at math, so certainly their
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children can't be good at math.
And unfortunately, people who feel that way
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are products of going through schools that
were very focused on a fixed mindset where
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they were sorted and selected and possibly
not given the opportunities to learn how to
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develop skills and become really good math
students. And it's really sad, and
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it's something that I'm very, very
determined to change. I absolutely believe that
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with the right teacher, the right
relationships was in the classroom, with a
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high degree of efficacy, strong content
knowledge, and a commitment to professional development
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and strong pedagogical skills, that magic
can happen in the classroom. And absolutely
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kids can learn mathematics, they can
learn algebra, and they can learn above
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algebra. But I think it's critical
that schools, and especially people that are
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leadership positions, do not get entrenched
in this mindset that students can or cannot
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do mathematics or any subject for that
matter. Well, I certainly applaud that.
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I mean, as the person who's
dedicated herself to basically helping people develop
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themselves in one form or the other. I am also in the general field
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of education, so completely applid what
you're saying. And it also makes me
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now wonder one of the things that
you mentioned on the phone when we spoke.
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When we spoke at first, was
you reference something about Simon Sinek's Golden
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circle concept. I don't know how
this relates to or if it does relate
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to the growth mindset, but I'd
like to hear more about that. Yeah,
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it absolutely does. If there's one
video that I could recommend anyone who's
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listening to us tonight or anyone who
listens to this at some later date,
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is take a look at Simon Sinek's
video called the Golden Circle. It is
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probably the most powerful YouTube video that
I have ever watched, and I have
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shared it many times with the staff
in our building. And used it as
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a springboard for wonderful, wonderful conversations. And I can give a very simplistic
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overview of it, but I don't
want to take away from people that I
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would really encourage to watch that video. So he draws three concentric circles and
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basically what he says on the outside
is that people are not inspired by what
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you do, and they are not
inspired in the second circle by how you
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do it. People are inspired by
why you do things. The power is
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when your words are congruent with your
actions. And what a really really interesting
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concepts. So within the classroom and
education, so I'll move this into a
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middle school zone and say, you
know, there have been times over the
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years when when friends of mine may
have hired someone who has very very strong
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credentials. Let's say that they have
an Ivy League degree. They're very very
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very very strong content knowledge, but
they don't connect well with kids. And
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you and I know, at least
because we're in this business that if you
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can't connect with twelve and thirteen year
olds and you're a middle school teacher,
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they don't care that you have a
degree from a very very university. That's
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right, exactly, but where the
magic occurs is when the students understand the
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why. And this kind of goes
back to what we were talking about.
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We're talking about efficacy. Efficacy is
this belief that I, as a principle
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or I as a teacher, believe
that I have the skills and I will
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continue to develop the skills to make
you successful. The why component comes in
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when kids get me and they understand
and they believe that I am the vehicle
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that can help them achieve their goals. There's a really really interesting duality there.
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So it's not just my personal belief
and how I communicate my personal belief,
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but it's also the student understanding me
and believing that I can be that
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person that can help them get it. You know, even though they never
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learned, they were never able to
do math before, I can be the
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person that can help them learn math. And it all comes back to getting
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that good understanding of what your why
is and communicating your why. And I
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would say for people in leadership positions, and again I've read a lot of
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this stuff, so I feel like
I'm saying things that I know you believe
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in. It is very important to
know your why, and it's equally important
397
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to communicate it and to communicate it
over and over again. I completely agree.
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I will say two things to that
if I can't even First, I
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literally just came back from a very
very large breakthrough project where the leadership team
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hadn't well articulated the why of this
really enormous global project that they were enrolling
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literally almost one hundred people in to
do. I'm no surprise there was a
402
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:40.200
big, dull thud, right,
But once they got them back on track
403
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:42.720
with the why, everybody was totally
enrolled. But you took some work,
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00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.000
right to get everything back on course. But if they had said that why
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00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:51.240
up front in a convincing, clear, compelling way, we wouldn't have had
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00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:53.400
that hiccup. But so that's one
thing I'll say. The other thing that
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00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.200
I'll say about the whole why thing, and I do know Simmons Sine's work.
408
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I completely had forgotten the notion of
just that goal and circle, but
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00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.839
the why piece registered. When I
teach my students at s Are the Methodist
410
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.599
University how to get and keep their
first job, one of the things that
411
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:08.720
I have them do, of course, is to create a little bit of
412
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:12.119
an elevator pitch, and they have
to have the why statement, and they're
413
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:18.960
really compellingly situated. And that's the
great fun, right when these kids can
414
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.799
articulate why they're on fire to go
off and do something. I'm like,
415
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:26.039
that's what people are going to get
enrolled. So I completely get that and
416
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.480
appreciate how you connected those concepts back
to efficacy and the innovation mindset, the
417
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:36.440
growth mindset that was that was alluring? Shall we say for me, well,
418
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:41.400
I appreciate that. I think that
it is. It is. It's
419
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:47.400
a wonderful thing when you figure out
what, no matter what position that you
420
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:52.119
occupy within your life, why you're
interested in doing it. You know,
421
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.680
where does your passion come from?
And when that happens, people will be
422
00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:59.319
drawn to you, and they'll be
drawn to you for the right reasons.
423
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:05.720
One of the challenges in leadership positions
is sometimes people try to build alliances by
424
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.440
compromising what they believe in, and
that may build a temporary alliance, but
425
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:13.759
it's not good and it's not healthy. You know, the best the best
426
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.599
alliances and the best team building to
bring it to an organization is to have
427
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:22.279
people that have an incredibly high degree
of alignment to what you believe in.
428
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:25.640
To what you believe in it.
And you know what I always like to
429
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:30.279
tell people, you know, positive
this is so simple, but positive people
430
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:35.079
always attract positive people. Negative people
tend to attract negative people, and most
431
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.799
interestingly, negative people who wonder why
they only attract negative people, they probably
432
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:44.359
need to take a look in the
mirror. Yeah, just not quite aware.
433
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:46.559
That a very interesting concept, you
know, But I believe that,
434
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:51.119
and I've spoken the beginning that,
you know, I'm really interested in helping
435
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.720
kids and everyone that works around me
find whatever the personal greatness that's inside of
436
00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:00.519
them. But to do that,
you need to understand your way. And
437
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:04.680
if you don't understand your why,
you're never going to find that because that's
438
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:07.440
going to be your source of personal
inspiration and that's going to be how you
439
00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:13.960
inspire other people. Completely agree,
and then maybe on the other side of
440
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:19.400
that camp, I like to talk
about two areas around the education and workspace
441
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.079
that I think are really compelling and
interesting topics today. One is about critical
442
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:28.880
thinking and the other one is about
creativity. So I'm interested in your perspective,
443
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:32.160
Evan, on how students today are
learning to think critically and what are
444
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:38.559
you doing to help contribute to that
learning. That's a fantastic question, you
445
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.200
know, And I would probably bring
it, bring it all the way back
446
00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:46.000
to some personal experiences that I had, But I would I would venture that
447
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:50.640
there are people listening right now,
people who will listen that will relate exactly
448
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:54.359
to what I said. To what
I say, I would say critical thinking
449
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:59.519
is one of the most important things
that we can bring into schools all across
450
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:02.480
all across America, because public schools
and private schools need to start thinking about
451
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:07.279
the skills that students need to have
when they graduate school to get ready for
452
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:15.239
work and beyond. But I was
a product of mechanistic teaching. So I'll
453
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.519
give you a simple example. But
I bet people can relate to this example.
454
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.679
When I was in high school,
I remember thinking I was a fantastic
455
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.719
student of history, and I had
this history class that was incredibly structured.
456
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:29.639
We would come in and take notes
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, we would
457
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:32.000
play a review game on Thursday,
and we would take a multiple choice test
458
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:37.639
of facts every Friday. And I
did very well. And I also thought
459
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:42.199
I was a great history student.
Possibly I had some sort of career being
460
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:47.119
connected to history, But what I
learned was all that I was good at
461
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:53.000
was regurgitating knowledge. I wasn't necessarily
good about a good thinking about history.
462
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:59.760
And so the interesting thing when we
think about public schools nowadays is everything that
463
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:06.280
I use to judge myself, every
factoid about history and how whatever I memorized
464
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:08.400
to make high grades on my tests
when I was in high school. I
465
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:13.840
can access every single one of them
on my iPhone, which is sitting right
466
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.760
in front of me, every single
one. But my iPhone will not tell
467
00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:22.320
me how to make an emotional connection
to history. It won't tell me how
468
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:28.480
to think and conceptualize events that occurred
in history and possibly how they relate to
469
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.159
me personally or how they relate to
the world around me. Those kind of
470
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:38.119
skills involve critical thinking, and it
involves a big shift within classrooms from public
471
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:44.400
schools probably all the way up through
through your end at the university level,
472
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:50.159
and how we go about getting kids
to think to think differently. I would
473
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:53.719
say that what's most important is that
staff needs to start learning to do things
474
00:35:53.719 --> 00:36:00.039
differently, and they need to be
willing to invest in ongoing professional development that
475
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:05.400
enhances their skills to change the way
that they do things. One of the
476
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:08.320
things that I like to tell my
staff and I push it out on Twitter.
477
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:14.239
A lot is in education today.
We need to teach students for their
478
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:20.239
future, not our past. Oh
great, it's an interesting concept, yes,
479
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:23.840
and it has a lot to do
with mindset, because people that have
480
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:27.599
a fixed mindset might say, well, it was good enough for me,
481
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.760
why wouldn't it be good enough for
you? But people who have a growth
482
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:36.519
mindset would say, the world is
a lot different now than when I experience
483
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.159
school, So I need to think
differently about what I do because my job
484
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:45.159
is to prepare children for a world
that I don't necessarily know what it's going
485
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:49.920
to look like. Public education,
all public educators all over America are preparing
486
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:54.880
students for jobs that didn't exist five
years ago. That is a great point.
487
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:59.000
That is a great point, perfect
one. Let's hold that for a
488
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:01.400
second time for another short break.
Here, I'm Alice Cortez, your host.
489
00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:05.199
We are on the air with Evan
Robb, who is a principal who
490
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:07.880
is the principle of Johnson Williams Middle
School in Barryville, Virginia. He's the
491
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:13.280
author of the Principal's Leadership source book, Practices, Tools and Strategies for building
492
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.400
a thriving school community. He joins
us today from Winchester, Virginia. After
493
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:20.840
the break, we'll talk more about
the idea of creativity, as well as
494
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:37.480
many other new trends happening in education
today. Stay with us Friend us on
495
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:45.000
Facebook to keep up with what's empowering
the world. Voice America Empowerment. Alice
496
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:50.440
Cortez is a speaker and engagement and
development catalyst. She designs and delivers professional
497
00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:54.599
development, leadership and engagement workshops and
can bring her expertise to your organization.
498
00:37:54.880 --> 00:38:00.880
She will help ignite meaningful development within
your workforce that will increase inoyee engagement,
499
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.199
performance and retention. To learn more
or to invite Elise to speak to your
500
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:10.159
organization, please visit her at www
dot Elisecortes dot com. She would welcome
501
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:16.159
the opportunity to help get your employees
working on purpose. We're making it easier
502
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:21.239
to listen to the Voice America Talk
Radio Network wherever you go. In addition
503
00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:23.800
to listening live, you can check
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504
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:28.480
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505
00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:32.840
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506
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507
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Market and get ready to tune in
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508
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look as Stop Docstaga, Get inspired, encouraged and connected on our Lively Award
509
00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:04.960
win Healthy Living Power Hour, Star
Style be the star you are with host
510
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:09.360
and Empowerment architect Sendya Brian live every
Wednesday at four pm Pacific on the Voice
511
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:15.119
America Empowerment Channel. Tune into the
Power Party for positive, uplifting, life
512
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:31.639
changing talk radio. Visit Starstyle Radio
dot com. You follow us on Twitter
513
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:45.719
for more great ideas at Voice America
Empowerment. This is Working on Purpose with
514
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:50.159
Elise Cortes. To reach our program
today, please call in to one triple
515
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:54.000
eight three four six nine one four
one. Again that's one triple eight three
516
00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:59.079
four six nine one four one.
You may also send an email to a
517
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:06.360
lease a l Se at police Coortes
dot com. Now back to Working on
518
00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:10.719
Purpose. Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to Working on Purpose.
519
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:14.960
If you're just tuning in. My
guest is Principal Evan rob of Johnson
520
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:19.320
Williams Middle School. He speaks across
the country and leadership and the effective principle,
521
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:22.199
how to improve literacy in schools,
the digital principle, social media,
522
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:25.880
how to involve all staff and goal
setting, how to organize effective work teams,
523
00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.320
and the impact of culture and positivity
on work. He also enjoys authoring
524
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:36.239
his blog called the rob Review Blog. I'm your host, Alis Cortes so
525
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:38.920
Evan. Just before the break,
we were talking, of course, about
526
00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:43.159
critical thinking and the importance of being
able to develop that in students today,
527
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:45.960
and then you mentioned, while we
are off on the break together, how
528
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.280
that might relate to grading. Will
you say more about that? I certainly
529
00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:57.960
well appreciate your bringing up to the
forefront here. I have learned a tremendous
530
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:01.239
amount of grading and have the opportunity
to work with with our staff for several
531
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:07.360
years to think differently about the way
that we grade in schools, and a
532
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:10.199
lot of what I have learned has
been based off of research by Rick Wormelli
533
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:15.480
and Tom Gusky. My goal is
to get people to think differently. So
534
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:20.079
what I would say is that most
people that are listening tonight, at some
535
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.559
time or another, when they were
in school, dealt with the average and
536
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:29.159
in terms of all the grades that
they received across a nine week grading period,
537
00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:32.199
for example, and how they were
averaged together to be a descriptor of
538
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:36.519
what they learned. So I'll pose
a really simple question for people, and
539
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:38.840
hopefully some people can take this and
bring it back to their buildings, or
540
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:44.840
parents can consider this as they have
conversations also with teachers as they think about
541
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:47.159
grading. So here's a really really
simple example. Let's say that we are
542
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:53.079
all going to work on our running
skills and we practice running on the track.
543
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:54.840
So the first time we go up
to the track, we want to
544
00:41:54.920 --> 00:42:00.079
run the mile in twelve minutes,
and we practice, practice, practice,
545
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:02.599
and the next time we run it
in ten minutes, the next time we
546
00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:07.119
run it in eight minutes, and
finally, after lots of practice and some
547
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:13.960
good coaching along the way, we
run the mile in six minutes. So
548
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:16.800
my question, at least to people
would be how fast do you run the
549
00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:22.480
mile? And most people, when
they're given that question will say, well,
550
00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:27.159
I guess you run the mile in
six minutes because you started at twelve
551
00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:30.039
and you went twelve, ten,
eight, and six. But if you're
552
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:34.880
using the average, you would average
all of those times together and say eight
553
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:37.719
minutes, but eight minutes is not
a descriptor of how fast you can actually
554
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:43.760
run the mile. So think about
that in terms of a classroom and things
555
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:46.639
such as mastery learning and us wanting
to make sure that the grades that we
556
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:52.119
give students in our schools are representative
of their knowledge. So go along the
557
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:58.880
same example of the mile times that
I give, and consider a student who
558
00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:01.119
made some very poor grades beginning of
nine weeks, but have lots of intervention
559
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:05.400
and lots of support and don't on't
behold at the end of the nine weeks,
560
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:08.800
they take their final assessment and they
make an A, and the A
561
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:15.000
is representative of everything that they have
learned over the course of that nine weeks.
562
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.639
Should what they make in the beginning
of the nine weeks be average to
563
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:22.960
be held against them if it was
with that paint an accurate picture of what
564
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:30.880
they really know, and would it
incentivize them to continue learning and develop that
565
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.960
growth and an innovative mindset. I
think that that's a brilliant comment at least
566
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.440
because I would say, and this
would certainly come inside with the work of
567
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:44.360
Rick Rimelly, that the most important
thing that we can bring for kids in
568
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:47.800
schools all across America, But also, you as a college professor is hope.
569
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:52.840
And if you take away hope,
kids don't try. And if you
570
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:58.000
take away hope, I don't try
either. Right. It's a very very
571
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.000
important thing to have in schools.
But I believe that if we think a
572
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:06.719
little bit differently about how we do
things, we can find more opportunities to
573
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.800
give kids hope and more opportunities for
kids to be successful, because I would
574
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:13.760
say a lot of what we do
with grading all across the United States of
575
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:16.119
America is simply based off of the
grading that we experienced when we were in
576
00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:23.760
school. MM doesn't mean that it's
that it's good. Certainly means that there's
577
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:28.880
an opportunity to have some conversations about
it. And those are courageous conversations,
578
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:32.599
but those are conversations that are very
important for people in leadership positions to have
579
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:37.519
as we look to do the best
we can for students all across the country.
580
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:40.920
Great conversation, just the depth that
I was hoping we're to get from
581
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:44.599
you. Thank you. Well.
The other thing that you talked about that
582
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:46.440
I already cute up with you as
well, that I definitely want to address
583
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:51.400
here is this notion of creativity you
talked about thinking differently, and certainly in
584
00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:54.559
the work that we do in Insignium, which is so much around performance breakthrough
585
00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:59.920
organizational transformation, a lot of what
we're really getting at is helping people to
586
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:04.039
think and act differently. So,
first, would you just say a little
587
00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:08.800
bit about what's your perspective on how
is creativity encouraged at school? Then how
588
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:13.679
do you cultivate it? Cultivating it
is a really interesting question. I think
589
00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:19.960
I'll start there and say, and
this goes for anything, whether it's education
590
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:24.880
or any business. It's cultivated by
building trust and relationships with the people that
591
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:30.679
you work with within your organization.
People will not be comfortable to stretch outside
592
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:36.119
of their box and try new things
if they don't feel trusted and if trust
593
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.880
doesn't exist, and if those relationships
are there, people simply won't take chances.
594
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:45.559
They'll hunker down. So it's incumbent
on the leadership within an organization to
595
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:52.199
not only model creativity and celebrate creativity
and expose people to a professional development on
596
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:59.519
creativity, but to communicate the importance
of it and establish trust and relationships with
597
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:02.960
staff try things, because when people
try things, sometimes their fear is that
598
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:09.559
they won't do it well, and
there's a leadership opportunity for administrators to set
599
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:14.360
the stage that it's okay and we're
all not going to be perfect on things
600
00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:16.840
when we first try things, but
if we don't try things, we're never
601
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:22.320
going to be good at doing something
different. I think that schools need to
602
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:27.800
take a really good look at the
time that they have within their school day
603
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:30.960
and the things that they do to
cultivate creativity. I would encourage people that
604
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:37.599
are listening tonight to check out AJ
Giuliani's blog or connect with Aj on Twitter.
605
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:42.800
He has some fascinating stuff on a
thing called Genius Hour, which is
606
00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:46.000
very similar to something that grew out
of the Google organization, where people were
607
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:52.039
given twenty percent of their time to
work on innovation and creativity within the within
608
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:58.760
within Google. Genius Hour is all
based about around people or students rather exploring
609
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.599
things that they're particularly interested in and
delving deeper into them in a very different
610
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:09.440
kind of way. Wow, I'm
thrilled to hear that some of these concepts
611
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:14.320
that are working well in the world
of business, like what you mentioned at
612
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:19.280
Google, are being considered and brought
into the classroom. That is incredibly exciting
613
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:22.920
to me, well, I appreciate
you sharing that. You know, I
614
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:28.440
didn't outside of the scope of our
conversation tonight, but years ago, and
615
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:31.000
I still continue to have a really
strong interest in total quality management and the
616
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:35.239
work of Edward Deming. I'm sure
you're familiar with that with your business background,
617
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:38.360
yes, and Deming was a big
proponent of something called the eighty five
618
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:45.159
fifteen model, which is eighty five
percent of the problems that exist within any
619
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:50.760
organization have to do with the system. They're typically not people related, and
620
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.079
so we need to look at how
we design the systems, in this case,
621
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:59.039
how we design schools to set up
opportunities for people to do things differently,
622
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.280
to think differently, to create exciting
opportunities for kids that are different.
623
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:07.679
Oh my gosh, it's just too
bad. I only have you for an
624
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.039
hour, because there's much more I
want to talk with you about, and
625
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:14.280
we're getting close to the end here. I definitely want to hit this next
626
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:17.000
thing that's very much on the forefront
of my mind here, Evan, and
627
00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:22.159
that is that I read in the
Wall Street Journal that schools are returning to
628
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:27.599
the idea of recess now as somebody
who is very interested in physical fitness,
629
00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:31.320
and certainly we have a problem with
obesity in this in this nation. I'm
630
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:37.000
really curious about what's driving this neat
this this idea to return to recess.
631
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:39.239
I know, I knew, I've
got a fourteen year old daughter, and
632
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:43.280
of course i know there's been an
emphasis on having more time for testing and
633
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:45.920
more time for learning, more time
in the classroom. So why the shift.
634
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:50.840
Well, that's a really interesting question. You know, sometimes when and
635
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:53.639
this goes true for this is true
for any business, whether education or the
636
00:48:53.679 --> 00:49:00.840
business world, when people are questioned
about having to do more, to do
637
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:05.519
something a little bit different, response
is often to have more time. So,
638
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:07.119
well, if I could do that, but I would need more time
639
00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:10.719
to do that. But the other
way to look at it is, you
640
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:15.199
know it would be is the time
that you are using the most effective way
641
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:20.199
to use your time? And can
you use time differently? And I think
642
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:27.440
in terms of fitness and kids working
on having some breaks within their school day.
643
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:31.679
That's a really interesting way to think
about schools. And again I would
644
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:37.079
come back to again, a lot
of what we do within schools across America
645
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:42.239
we do because we've always done them. I would you'd love to know why
646
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:45.320
most schools in America seem to have
four minutes in between every class. I'm
647
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:49.320
guessing that a long time ago,
someone decided that that was a good thing
648
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:53.000
to do, and most schools in
America have four minutes in between classes.
649
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:58.679
But to my knowledge, there's no
research that four minutes is any better than
650
00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:01.800
three and a half, four or
five. But again, we do it
651
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:08.960
because we've always done it that way. There are schools across the world that
652
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:14.159
look differently at integrating physical breaks for
kids, and I would point people to
653
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:20.000
take a look at what's happening in
Finland. Finland for several years has been
654
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:24.519
a big proponent of students having more
physical activity during their school day. I
655
00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:31.599
believe Finland and also some research on
brain breaks where kids have breaks from their
656
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:37.079
academic day during the school Our research
shows and improve cognitive skills and improve perseverance
657
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:42.360
and grit with students. I's an
the opportunity to develop social and emotional growth
658
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:47.760
as kids moved through adolescens. One
of the things that I would say is
659
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:55.960
that I would always encourage any administrator
to take a day and shadow a student
660
00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:00.320
and see what it's like to go
through a school day from eight in the
661
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:05.199
morning until three point thirty in the
afternoon. And what I would venture to
662
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:09.360
guess is that if your school has
a very engaging environment where kids are moving
663
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:14.559
around and their learning, and they're
working in groups and they have cooperative opportunities,
664
00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:17.880
probably could be a pretty invigorating day. But if it is a day
665
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:22.239
similar to the days that I experienced
for many many years when I was in
666
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:28.800
middle school and high school, it
could be rather tedious because sitting through a
667
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:32.440
day of lecture and sitting and taking
notes one block after the other is very
668
00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:37.679
very hard to do, certainly hard
for me to do as a fifty one
669
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:42.039
year old, ma'am, and extremely
hard to do for a twelve year old
670
00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:45.800
who has a lot of energy.
So I think that we need again to
671
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:52.360
continue to look at at our day, you know, at the way instruction
672
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:55.800
is delivered within our schools, and
of course, as you could tell,
673
00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:04.440
am an opponent for instruction that is
that is engaging for students, and also
674
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.079
taking a look at the time that
we have within the school day and looking
675
00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:13.039
at some opportunities to do things a
little bit different. And again that means
676
00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:16.559
shaking up that box a little bit, because it is very easy within education,
677
00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:22.800
but within any business to be tied
down to one way of doing things.
678
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:27.599
But when you really really dig into
that bag, you realize that there
679
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.480
may not really be any reason that
reason other than you've only done it that
680
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:37.039
way. Oh my gosh. Well, and so when I think about just
681
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:38.840
last week when I was on the
air with Martha Parker, she was talking
682
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:43.360
about ergonomics and her four ms.
One of those m's she talks about is
683
00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:46.480
engineering mini breaks in our work schedules, and of course that applies to school
684
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:52.679
as well, and just the importance
of being able to infuse that change of
685
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:57.800
focus and certainly having the physical piece
integrated into that as well, and just
686
00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:01.760
how important that is for san for
peace, for productivity she talked about as
687
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:07.480
well. So it fits right into
what you're talking about too, absolutely,
688
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:10.599
it does, you know. I
Again, what I would always encourage is,
689
00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:20.800
don't I guess I want to make
sure we're articulating this right. It
690
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.920
is always good to look at how
we do things and reflect on our practices
691
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.119
and see if there's a different way
to do things. I would encourage,
692
00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:32.559
And I'm looking forward to myself this
fall to follow the student all the way
693
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:37.920
through a school day and being able
to debrief and share some really honest reflections
694
00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:44.719
with our staff about that as we
continue on our journey to reevaluate some things
695
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:49.880
that we're doing. Oh gosh,
I've gotten so much of this conversation and
696
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:52.719
we are officially at a time.
So let me thank you so much for
697
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:55.440
coming on the show, for sharing
your wisdom, your passion, your perspective.
698
00:53:55.639 --> 00:54:00.960
You gave us so many helpful ideas
and different and people who have contributed
699
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:04.320
to your learning. Thank you so
much for being with us. It has
700
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:07.480
absolutely been my pleasure. Thank you
very much for having me on your show.
701
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:10.280
If you want to learn more about
Principal Evan rob and the work he's
702
00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:14.159
doing in education, I would encourage
you to visit his blog, which is
703
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:20.840
the robreviewblog dot com. So that's
the and Rob is with two B's reviewblog
704
00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:24.360
dot com. Join us next week
when we talk with Staff Sergeant Jason Morgan,
705
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:28.719
who has a most remarkable story of
service and survival while serving in the
706
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:31.119
Air Force and is now on a
mission to help people embrace their own adversity
707
00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:37.280
and serve brothers to find purpose in
their life. He actually is both quadriplegic
708
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:40.159
and an mputee and has much to
share. Also is the single father of
709
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:44.599
three boys. Incredible man to talk
to, be able to share a perspective
710
00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:46.920
about adversity. So see you.
Then, remember that work is one third
711
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:57.519
of our lives, So let's work
on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this
712
00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:00.679
week's program. Be sure to tune
into Working on Purpose, featuring your host,
713
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:06.639
Elise Cortes, every Wednesday at six
pm Eastern Time three pm Pacific Time
714
00:55:06.679 --> 00:55:10.599
on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.
This week, find your life's purpose at work
1
00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:10.759
There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,
2
00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:14.800
and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.
3
00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:20.199
Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,
4
00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:24.480
we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and
5
00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:29.920
personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working
6
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:37.000
on purpose. Now Here is your
host Elise Cortes. Welcome back to Working
7
00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:39.960
on Purpose. Thanks for tuning in
again this week. I'm your host Elise
8
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.799
Cortes, joining from Dallas, Texas, which is home base for me.
9
00:00:43.399 --> 00:00:47.079
This program is all about helping people
more meaningfully and productively connect with their work
10
00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:51.560
and equipping organizations do the same for
their employees. It was originally inspired by
11
00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.640
the meaning and work research I've been
doing over the last fifteen years and now
12
00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:57.880
compliments the work that I do at
Insignium, which is a global management consulting
13
00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:02.000
firm. Let me thank my meet
aupartner and sponsor first jobbing dot com.
14
00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:04.280
They are the leading locally focused job
board in the nation and are dedicated to
15
00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:08.560
helping employers find quality talent in their
own backyard and giving jobs to control of
16
00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:11.599
their search so they can find work
close to home. Great partnership. Thank
17
00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:15.840
you jobbing dot Com. Last week, if you missed the show live,
18
00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.799
you can catch it on podcast.
We were on the air with Martha Parker,
19
00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:22.719
who was president of m Urge,
a corporate wellness and management firm based
20
00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:26.840
in Houston, Texas. She technically
supports customers by offering ergonomic assistance and design,
21
00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:32.920
redesign and retrofit of new and existing
office and industrial workspaces. We've talked
22
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about her field of ergonomics, the
four ms she addresses in the work she
23
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does, and now she works with
her clients to improve the comfort and productivity
24
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of their work. I learned a
ton from her. With us this week
25
00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:47.560
is Evan Robb, who is the
principal of Johnson Williams Middle School in Baryville,
26
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:51.480
Virginia. He is the author of
the Principal's Leadership source book, Practices,
27
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Tools and Strategies for Building a Thriving
School Community, and also maintains a
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blog called the Rob Review Blog.
He joins us today from Winchester, Virginia.
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Principal Rob, Welcome to Working on
Purpose, Alise. I am so
30
00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:07.599
excited to be here this evening.
Please feel free to call me Evan.
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Okay, well do I'm absolutely excited
how we you know, we connected through
32
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social media, and so I'm excited
to talk about how social media has been
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a tremendous influence on me and helped
me further to find what working to purpose,
34
00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:24.879
working working for purpose means to me
as a principal, but also as
35
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a as a person. I love
it. I absolutely love it, Evan.
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Yes, I'm tickled pink that we
found each other on Twitter, and
37
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we also have a friend in common. Mary. What's Mary's last name,
38
00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:42.039
Doctor Mary Howard? Doctor Mary Howard. Yes, give a shout out to
39
00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:46.360
her. She's fantastic. So,
speaking of shout outs, here, would
40
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you just give us a quick introduction
of yourself and sketch your early career begeting
41
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as a teacher. I always liked
to give our listeners a little bit of
42
00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:55.080
context for who's speaking to them.
I will do that, and you know,
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tonight, what I'd like to do
is kind of frame up. I'm
44
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hoping that. I'm sure some people
may be interested in me talking from a
45
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principal's perspective, but I will try
to broaden things and really focus around leadership
46
00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:13.960
and the choices that we make those
of us who are in leadership positions to
47
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be a positive influence for people who
are around us and encourage people to be
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excited and committed and passionate about the
work that they do. I started in
49
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education back in the very very early
nineteen nineties, and I started as a
50
00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:31.080
teacher. I actually started as a
teacher in the school where I am currently
51
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principal, and I worked as an
English teacher, a history teacher, a
52
00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:40.919
team leader, a department chair,
and had a wonderful experience at Johns Williams
53
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Middle School in the early to mid
nineteen nineties. And the Clark is a
54
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small county and so I needed to
see some opportunities elsewhere. In nineteen ninety
55
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eight, I went to Warren County, which is a neighboring county to where
56
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I currently work, and I served
as principal of a junior high school there
57
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through two thousand and At that time, I had an opportunity to apply and
58
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:09.360
return back to Clark County, and
in July two thousand and four, I
59
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became principal of the building where I
began my teaching career, and I have
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been principal there ever since. You
know one interesting little fact about the school
61
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where I'm principal. I was much
the school where I'm principal of has only
62
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had two principles since nineteen ninety six, and that is a very very rare
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thing in our business. Certainly,
it's a business where a lot of turnover
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and people are not in jobs not
that long. But I and my predecessor
65
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have been able to have long careers
in Clark County, and we've enjoyed it
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very much. I can actually tell
just listening to your voice and just listening
67
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to you talk about it. I
absolutely love education, you know. And
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along the way, I've had some
really exciting opportunities. You know, I
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have had the opportunity to write a
book. I've had opportunities to speak all
70
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across the country. I speak about
goal setting and team building and leadership and
71
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and again the personal choices that we
make in leadership positions to be a positive
72
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influence for people about how to build
commitment versus using position authority for compliance,
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and also ultimately finding ways to adopt
the growth mindset into what I do and
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the people that I work with.
But like many people who I'm sure have
75
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been on your show, I am
very fortunate because I have had many people
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who have been an incredible influence to
me along the way to help me as
77
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I have moved through my career.
My number one influence would be my mother,
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who I believe is listening tonight,
Absolutely hey, Mom, who never
79
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give up on me and always pushed
me to to be what she thought that
80
00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:49.480
I could be. And because of
her and many other people who I've known
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throughout my life, I'm including my
life and I would certainly say something give
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a shout out to my life.
I've had a lot of great support along
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the way to achieve the goals that
I've won achieved professionally so important. It
84
00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:09.720
is so important to have that kind
of support and cheer section. But why
85
00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:14.079
education, Evan, You chose a
career in education, Why that field and
86
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how did it come about? I
took. I took an interesting route to
87
00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:24.040
my career in education. I think
that when I was growing up, Lisa
88
00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.639
spent I spent a lot of time
trying to resist that as my calling.
89
00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:31.519
My mother had been a teacher and
still is. My father was a teacher
90
00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:36.000
and a college professor. And when
I went through college, I decided to
91
00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:41.360
go into business, and I actually
went through a graduate program, an NBA
92
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:46.120
program, thinking that I was going
to pursue a career in business, and
93
00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:49.040
then decided, probably when I was
just a bell done with that program,
94
00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:54.480
that that was not for me.
I was actually I realized, I had
95
00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:57.959
this sort of kismet moment that education
is where I need to be in education
96
00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.519
is what I want to do.
And I think one of the influences for
97
00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:03.519
me, although as a reflect on
it, I don't think I knew it
98
00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:08.439
when I was in my graduate program, but in my graduate program I believe
99
00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:12.839
it. Around in the MBA program, I came into contact with several professors
100
00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.560
who were huge advocates, although they
may not have known it. Of the
101
00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:24.560
growth mindset. I encountered people who
had incredible faith in me and encouraged me
102
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to be something that I may not
have thought that I could be. And
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I also encounter people who were very
supportive of me choosing a different direction over
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00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:39.399
business and actually choosing education. So
I made a decision back in the very
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very early nineteen nineties to pack up
my MBA and pursue my teaching endorsement,
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and I've never looked back since then. It's ever made I love that you
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know, I have to ask those
kind of questions because I've been researching up
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people discover our career and find meaning
in it for years, so I couldn't
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resist fantastic response to I'm not surprised. There's such an element of passion in
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what you do, and the fact
that you went from business in an NBA
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program to becoming an English and history
teacher is fascinating. Yeah, it was,
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it was. It was an interesting
turn, but again it proved to
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be the best thing that I ever
did. But I learned so much in
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my business program about really more about
myself and about my capabilities and realized,
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you know, ultimately, of course, that that education was where I needed
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to be and I've been there ever
since. Well, I think that we,
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all of your students can can thank
you for that. So I'm I'm
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always curious when I think about You've
clearly made an impact in your field,
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Evan, You clearly are. You're
blazing a trail. So I'm interested to
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understand what problems are you most interested
in dressing and education today and why.
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That's a great question and it's something
I think about a lot and something that
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I work with my team on lot. You know one of the things,
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and this would apply just not of
course the education, but to anyone who's
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in a leadership position. Is I
am a big believer in working with my
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team and problem solving together. I
have a long since let go of the
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of the weight that I could carry
on my shoulders of varying responsibility for every
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single decision that's made within an organization. And I know at least that you're
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interested in strength Finder and helping people
kind of focus in on their areas of
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strength and how that can help build
an effective team. I've read that about
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you really interesting, and actually in
my school, we've done the strength Finder
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assessment with our leadership team to get
better understanding of our strengths and what we
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each can bring to the table.
So everything that I talk about is all
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because I have really great super people
that work with me. And I have
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a lot of people that work with
me who have skills that I do not
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have, but I am fortunate to
have them with me, and together we
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all make a fantastic sixteen. But
back to your question about the things that
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I really think about when I think
about education today and the trends that are
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happening in education, there are a
few things that come to my mind.
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Number One, I am extremely interested
in equity and opportunity for students. Big
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disparities across our country between areas that
are wealthy in areas that are not,
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and I am incredibly committed to trying
to level that playing field for students because
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I am have always been such a
believer that education is the pathway that helps
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students achieve any goals that they want
as they head off into life. I'm
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also very passionate about technology, as
you might know because we met through social
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media, which of course is as
a technology medium that's used a lot within
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schools. Also, but very interested
in transformative technology. I talk about that
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a lot with my staff and we
work on that a lot, focusing on
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how technology in schools can trans form
the way that we do business, so
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thinking different instead of thinking about inserting
technology to take the place of something.
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As an example, there are lots
of apps that allow a teacher to do
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a jeopardy game or something like that
within their classroom through technology, and it's
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no different than the same game that
I had. But when I look at
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Google and Google platforms and I see
how people can connect and access technology from
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anywhere in the world. I see
that it's incredibly transformative in something that I'm
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very, very passionate about. I
do believe that in the day and age
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that we live in now, a
great teacher will not be defined solely by
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their use of technology, but every
great educator will effectively use technology. And
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that's an interesting thing to think about, and it represents a big shift that's
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going on in business of education right
now, and it's very very exciting.
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I am also really really interested in
how to create environments that are creative and
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dynamic for students and staff, and
looking at the environments that we have within
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schools differently, a lot of in
schools no different than any other organizations,
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a lot of a lot of businesses, and a lot of schools do things
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because it's the way that they've always
done them. And one of the things
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that I'm really passionate about is taking
an honest look at the practices that we
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have within schools and looking at them
honestly and asking some tough questions. Many
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of them absolutely are great and certainly
worth carrying on, but I think there
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are the practices that exist within schools
and organizations that need to be looked at
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and maybe their time has come.
I think that one of the things that
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I often talk to staff about is
that we all carry sometimes a Linus's blanket.
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If you're a fan of peanuts,
he would carry his blanket with him
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everywhere and never let go of it. Sometimes we do need to let go
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of those things. And when we
let go of those things, I think
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we have a really much better chance
to find the personal greatness that's inside of
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us. And I think at the
end of the day, I am incredibly
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interested in developing greatness and people around
me, and of course providing opportunities for
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students. It just seeps through every
tone of your voice. Adin, For
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sure, there is so much.
Yeah, there's so much you said there.
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But I just want to grab one
thing really quick before I go on
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to the next thing I want to
get from you, and that is you
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mentioned you giving up some of these
long held practices. Can you give us
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maybe one example of a practice do
you think that really needs to be examined
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and considered to be let go of? Absolutely? Absolutely, Well, I'm
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going to give you two. I'm
going to make the first one really short
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than the second one will be a
little bit longer. I think extra credit
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is something that schools need to take
a really good look at. When my
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own children were in school, I
remember that they could bring in lots of
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boxes of shoes and get extra points
added to their tests when they should take
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the tests. But the extra points
that they would learn from bringing bringing in
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tissues were not necessarily giving a good
indication of their learning. And I think
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that's a practice that needs to be
looked at, and I commend my staff.
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I'm so proud of my staff because
we had tough conversations about that and
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we have them let go of that
blanket that certainly some people have held over
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time. The other thing that I
think needs to be looked at within education
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is grading. And of course,
you know, since you and I met
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on social media, I thought it
would be really cool tonight if I talked
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about people that I've connected with through
social media and how I've learned from them,
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I'm kind of integrate into our conversation. So a couple of people that
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I've learned a lot from on social
media is Rick Wrimelli and Tom Gusky,
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and they've done some amazing work on
grading and really get people to think differently
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about grading and shake up the paradigm
about grading. I think that grading in
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schools at times can become a chase
for point accumulation, and sometimes students are
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more motivated to achieve points than they
are to learn. And I think it's
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a really interesting conversation that schools can
go through, which is how do we
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make that shift, how do we
encourage students who are so focused on the
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grade to take more risks they're learning
in a safe way. And that's a
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big conversation. I know, it's
more than the scope of our chat tonight.
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That's certainly something that is very valuable
to talk about something I've been talking
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about my stuff for a long time. I mean, we're making good inroads
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in that. I really appreciate both
of those points, and those are phenomenal,
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and I'm glad that that you were
able to just kind of give us
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some particulars on how you would think
to change some of the status quo or
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long held traditions. Beautiful, Oh
my gosh. And I also appreciate that
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you shared a couple of people that
you learned from who you found on social
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media, because I know that's one
of your big things is using technology and
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also using using social media to connect
with students and parents. So what a
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gorgeous example. We only have a
couple of minutes before we need to go
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on on our first break here,
but I want to start with a little
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bit about this whole notion about your
interest in promoting a growth mindset among both
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your students and also your faculty.
Will you say a little bit about why
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that's important to you, How did
you discover it, why is it important
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to you? And we'll probably continue
the conversation after the break, but at
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least start us off. Yeah,
that's that's fantastic, you know, to
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frame up for our listeners who may
not know about that. There's there's really
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three kinds of mindsets. A fixed
mindset is the mindset that most of most
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people grew up with when they when
they went through education, and I certainly
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did. I can speak more to
that if we have some time a little
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bit later. Fixed mindset means I
will make there's determinations made about what I
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can do and what I cannot do. I'm a typically surface in the surfaces
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in the ear of mathematics, where
you often hear kids or families say,
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well, you know, I can't
do math. No one in my family
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could ever do math now. A
growth mindset is based off of the work
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of Carol Dewick from Stanford and it's
fascinating and it has to do with the
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mindset of you know, I'm not
good at math, but with a lot
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of help and a lot of support
and a lot of practice and with people
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that believe in me, I can
do math. Now. The next level,
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which I find very interesting, is
based off of the work of George
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Corros who I also connected with through
Twitter, and that would be the innervator's
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mindset, which is an extension on
the work of Carol Dewick. Where you're
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saying, with practice, I can
create So a growth mindset would be with
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practice, I can learn how to
play the piano, even though I'm not
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naturally good at the piano, with
lessons I can I can stick to it,
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and I can learn how to play
the piano. And apply an innovator's
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mindset to that. You would say, not only can I learn how to
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play the piano with practice and support, but I can create music that is
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gorgeous and a perfect way to cue
us that for the break. So hold
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is your thought for the next bed
here, I want to dive more into
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that. I'm your host Elise Cortes
with It on the air with Evan Robb,
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who is the principal of Johnson Williams
Middle School in Berryville, Virginia.
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He's the author of the Principal's Leadership
source book, Practices, Tools and Strategies
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for building a Thriving School Community.
He joins us today from Winchester, Virginia.
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We've been talking about his early career, why he got into education,
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what he sees needs to be changed. After the break will dive more into
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the growth mindset and some of the
other eras that he's working on with his
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students. Stay with us. Friend
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empowering the world. Voice America Empowerment
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development catalyst. She designs and delivers
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can bring her expertise to your organization. She will help ignite meaningful development within
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your workforce that will increase employee engagement, performance and retention. To learn more
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or to invite Elise to speak to
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dot Elise Coortes dot com. She
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Motivate, change, succeed, Voice
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Working on Purpose with Elise Cortes.
To reach our program today, please call
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in to one triple eight three four
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an email to Elise A. L
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274
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:41.119
back to Working on Purpose. Thanks
for staying with us, and welcome back
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to working on Purpose. If you're
just joining us. My guest is Principal
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Evan rob of Johnson Williams Middle School. He speaks across the country, and
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leadership and the effective principle, how
to improve literacy in schools, the digital
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digital teams, and the impact of
culture and positivity on work. He enjoys
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authoring his blog called the Rob Review
Blog. I'm your host, court has
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so just before the break, Principal
Rob, I know that you asked me
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to call you Evanbow. I'll go
back and forth just for fun. We
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were talking about the growth mindset and
you helped us understand the innovator's mindset.
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So I'm interested to understand what you
think the role of efficacy and collective efficacy
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is in contributing to the innovator mindset
or the growth mindset, either one.
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You know, I'm so excited about
our conversation tonight. Alas and efficacy and
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collective efficacy, they totally intertwine.
Growth mindset is the mindset that a student
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can have in a classroom if conditions
are set up within the school for that
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to happen. And part of the
way that that happens has to do with
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the belief systems that teachers have about
students that are in their classroom. But
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I would also say this totally connects
to any organization where people want to optimize
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and get the absolute best out of
people. Efficacy is simply the belief that
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a person has that they can make
a difference for someone else an education,
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that means the faith of a teacher
and the students that are before them.
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Collective efficacy is very powerful because that
has to do with the vibe or the
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feeling within the entire organization and how
the organization focuses and believes in the students
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that are there in the case of
the school. A lot of this is
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based off of some really interesting research
by John Hattie out of New Zealand and
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also by Peter DeWitt On, both
of whom I've also connected with with on
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Twitter. And John Hattie's research would
actually say that the number one thing that
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makes a real difference for students within
a school is the efficacy that a teacher
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brings into their classroom when they work
day in and day out with the students
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that are in front of them.
It is an incredibly powerful thing and it
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has a really strong effect because when
teachers believe that they can make an impact
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on kids, it coincides beautifully with
the growth mindset, because people who have
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a fixed mindset do not believe that
everyone can get it. Fixed mindset would
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lead people to believe into the sorting
and selecting mechanisms that many of us experienced
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when we went through school, whether
it was the Blueberg group when you were
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a little kid in elementary school and
which was the high reading group where you
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were in the higher of the low
reading group, or when determinations were made
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when you were in high school about
where you could go after high school.
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So I'm a big champion, always
been a big champion of bringing in people
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and making sure that we're developing people
that have a high degree of personal efficacy
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when they work with kids. And
I would say that when schools, and
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I think anyone who's listening to this
who is a principal would agree with me.
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You know, when the question always
comes up, you know, what
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do you look for when you're hiring
teachers to come into a building where you're
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looking for people that have content knowledge, that have great pedagogical skills, that
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have a growth bond set, that
have a really really high degree of efficacy,
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and also people that get what Eric
Scheneger, who's another person I connected
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with through Twitter with call the three
hours of Education, which is relationships,
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relationships and relationships those things are in
place, magic can happen in a classroom.
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Oh my gosh, this is just
brilliant to listen to you talk.
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This is right up my alley.
All no wonder we connected immediately as we
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did on Twitter. I just I
get your vibe. I appreciate your perspective,
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your passion, and I'm aligned on
these things. So one of the
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things that we talked about while we're
on break is talking a little bit more
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about how what you've been talking about
relates to some of these this limited perspective
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and belief that we have about math
in this nation. Will you say a
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little bit more about that? Oh? Will? I think that you know.
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And this is me talking from some
of the things that I'm incredibly passionate
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about. I believe that algebra is
a gateway course for students and opens up
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opportunities not only for advanced math in
high school, but there is certainly recent
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that points to students who successfully take
algebra in schools that they pursue higher level
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mathematics and in many cases, pursue
education after high school. So I think
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it's very important that schools make a
commitment to helping students learn and master algebra,
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but also all mathematics. But I
could think of no other subject when
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I think about subjects that occur in
school that are more entrenched in a fixed
338
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mindset than mathematics. There is not
a year that goes back that I will
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00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:34.799
not have a meeting with a student, or sometimes a parent or even sometimes
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00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:40.799
a grandparent who will who will communicate
that they've never been good at math,
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and no one in their family is
ever good at math, so certainly their
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children can't be good at math.
And unfortunately, people who feel that way
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are products of going through schools that
were very focused on a fixed mindset where
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they were sorted and selected and possibly
not given the opportunities to learn how to
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develop skills and become really good math
students. And it's really sad, and
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it's something that I'm very, very
determined to change. I absolutely believe that
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with the right teacher, the right
relationships was in the classroom, with a
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high degree of efficacy, strong content
knowledge, and a commitment to professional development
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and strong pedagogical skills, that magic
can happen in the classroom. And absolutely
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kids can learn mathematics, they can
learn algebra, and they can learn above
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00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:34.400
algebra. But I think it's critical
that schools, and especially people that are
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leadership positions, do not get entrenched
in this mindset that students can or cannot
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00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:48.839
do mathematics or any subject for that
matter. Well, I certainly applaud that.
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00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.960
I mean, as the person who's
dedicated herself to basically helping people develop
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themselves in one form or the other. I am also in the general field
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of education, so completely applid what
you're saying. And it also makes me
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00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:04.960
now wonder one of the things that
you mentioned on the phone when we spoke.
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00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:10.440
When we spoke at first, was
you reference something about Simon Sinek's Golden
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00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:12.680
circle concept. I don't know how
this relates to or if it does relate
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00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:17.759
to the growth mindset, but I'd
like to hear more about that. Yeah,
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00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.759
it absolutely does. If there's one
video that I could recommend anyone who's
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00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:29.720
listening to us tonight or anyone who
listens to this at some later date,
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00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:34.559
is take a look at Simon Sinek's
video called the Golden Circle. It is
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00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:40.279
probably the most powerful YouTube video that
I have ever watched, and I have
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shared it many times with the staff
in our building. And used it as
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a springboard for wonderful, wonderful conversations. And I can give a very simplistic
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overview of it, but I don't
want to take away from people that I
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00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:59.680
would really encourage to watch that video. So he draws three concentric circles and
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00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.839
basically what he says on the outside
is that people are not inspired by what
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00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:07.640
you do, and they are not
inspired in the second circle by how you
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00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:15.079
do it. People are inspired by
why you do things. The power is
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when your words are congruent with your
actions. And what a really really interesting
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concepts. So within the classroom and
education, so I'll move this into a
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middle school zone and say, you
know, there have been times over the
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years when when friends of mine may
have hired someone who has very very strong
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00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:41.279
credentials. Let's say that they have
an Ivy League degree. They're very very
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00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:47.799
very very strong content knowledge, but
they don't connect well with kids. And
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00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:51.279
you and I know, at least
because we're in this business that if you
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00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:53.440
can't connect with twelve and thirteen year
olds and you're a middle school teacher,
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00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:57.480
they don't care that you have a
degree from a very very university. That's
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00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:04.440
right, exactly, but where the
magic occurs is when the students understand the
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00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.160
why. And this kind of goes
back to what we were talking about.
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We're talking about efficacy. Efficacy is
this belief that I, as a principle
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00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:17.799
or I as a teacher, believe
that I have the skills and I will
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00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.079
continue to develop the skills to make
you successful. The why component comes in
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00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:29.119
when kids get me and they understand
and they believe that I am the vehicle
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00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:33.400
that can help them achieve their goals. There's a really really interesting duality there.
388
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:37.119
So it's not just my personal belief
and how I communicate my personal belief,
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00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.920
but it's also the student understanding me
and believing that I can be that
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00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.400
person that can help them get it. You know, even though they never
391
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.240
learned, they were never able to
do math before, I can be the
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00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:53.279
person that can help them learn math. And it all comes back to getting
393
00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:59.119
that good understanding of what your why
is and communicating your why. And I
394
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:03.440
would say for people in leadership positions, and again I've read a lot of
395
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.039
this stuff, so I feel like
I'm saying things that I know you believe
396
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:10.599
in. It is very important to
know your why, and it's equally important
397
00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:15.920
to communicate it and to communicate it
over and over again. I completely agree.
398
00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:19.880
I will say two things to that
if I can't even First, I
399
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:26.119
literally just came back from a very
very large breakthrough project where the leadership team
400
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:32.640
hadn't well articulated the why of this
really enormous global project that they were enrolling
401
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:37.279
literally almost one hundred people in to
do. I'm no surprise there was a
402
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:40.200
big, dull thud, right,
But once they got them back on track
403
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:42.720
with the why, everybody was totally
enrolled. But you took some work,
404
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.000
right to get everything back on course. But if they had said that why
405
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:51.240
up front in a convincing, clear, compelling way, we wouldn't have had
406
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:53.400
that hiccup. But so that's one
thing I'll say. The other thing that
407
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.200
I'll say about the whole why thing, and I do know Simmons Sine's work.
408
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.640
I completely had forgotten the notion of
just that goal and circle, but
409
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.839
the why piece registered. When I
teach my students at s Are the Methodist
410
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.599
University how to get and keep their
first job, one of the things that
411
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:08.720
I have them do, of course, is to create a little bit of
412
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:12.119
an elevator pitch, and they have
to have the why statement, and they're
413
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:18.960
really compellingly situated. And that's the
great fun, right when these kids can
414
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.799
articulate why they're on fire to go
off and do something. I'm like,
415
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:26.039
that's what people are going to get
enrolled. So I completely get that and
416
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.480
appreciate how you connected those concepts back
to efficacy and the innovation mindset, the
417
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:36.440
growth mindset that was that was alluring? Shall we say for me, well,
418
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:41.400
I appreciate that. I think that
it is. It is. It's
419
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:47.400
a wonderful thing when you figure out
what, no matter what position that you
420
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:52.119
occupy within your life, why you're
interested in doing it. You know,
421
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.680
where does your passion come from?
And when that happens, people will be
422
00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:59.319
drawn to you, and they'll be
drawn to you for the right reasons.
423
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:05.720
One of the challenges in leadership positions
is sometimes people try to build alliances by
424
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.440
compromising what they believe in, and
that may build a temporary alliance, but
425
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:13.759
it's not good and it's not healthy. You know, the best the best
426
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.599
alliances and the best team building to
bring it to an organization is to have
427
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:22.279
people that have an incredibly high degree
of alignment to what you believe in.
428
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:25.640
To what you believe in it.
And you know what I always like to
429
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:30.279
tell people, you know, positive
this is so simple, but positive people
430
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:35.079
always attract positive people. Negative people
tend to attract negative people, and most
431
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.799
interestingly, negative people who wonder why
they only attract negative people, they probably
432
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:44.359
need to take a look in the
mirror. Yeah, just not quite aware.
433
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:46.559
That a very interesting concept, you
know, But I believe that,
434
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:51.119
and I've spoken the beginning that,
you know, I'm really interested in helping
435
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.720
kids and everyone that works around me
find whatever the personal greatness that's inside of
436
00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:00.519
them. But to do that,
you need to understand your way. And
437
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:04.680
if you don't understand your why,
you're never going to find that because that's
438
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:07.440
going to be your source of personal
inspiration and that's going to be how you
439
00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:13.960
inspire other people. Completely agree,
and then maybe on the other side of
440
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:19.400
that camp, I like to talk
about two areas around the education and workspace
441
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.079
that I think are really compelling and
interesting topics today. One is about critical
442
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:28.880
thinking and the other one is about
creativity. So I'm interested in your perspective,
443
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:32.160
Evan, on how students today are
learning to think critically and what are
444
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:38.559
you doing to help contribute to that
learning. That's a fantastic question, you
445
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.200
know, And I would probably bring
it, bring it all the way back
446
00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:46.000
to some personal experiences that I had, But I would I would venture that
447
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:50.640
there are people listening right now,
people who will listen that will relate exactly
448
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:54.359
to what I said. To what
I say, I would say critical thinking
449
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:59.519
is one of the most important things
that we can bring into schools all across
450
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:02.480
all across America, because public schools
and private schools need to start thinking about
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00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:07.279
the skills that students need to have
when they graduate school to get ready for
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00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:15.239
work and beyond. But I was
a product of mechanistic teaching. So I'll
453
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.519
give you a simple example. But
I bet people can relate to this example.
454
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.679
When I was in high school,
I remember thinking I was a fantastic
455
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.719
student of history, and I had
this history class that was incredibly structured.
456
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:29.639
We would come in and take notes
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, we would
457
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:32.000
play a review game on Thursday,
and we would take a multiple choice test
458
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:37.639
of facts every Friday. And I
did very well. And I also thought
459
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:42.199
I was a great history student.
Possibly I had some sort of career being
460
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:47.119
connected to history, But what I
learned was all that I was good at
461
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:53.000
was regurgitating knowledge. I wasn't necessarily
good about a good thinking about history.
462
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:59.760
And so the interesting thing when we
think about public schools nowadays is everything that
463
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:06.280
I use to judge myself, every
factoid about history and how whatever I memorized
464
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:08.400
to make high grades on my tests
when I was in high school. I
465
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:13.840
can access every single one of them
on my iPhone, which is sitting right
466
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.760
in front of me, every single
one. But my iPhone will not tell
467
00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:22.320
me how to make an emotional connection
to history. It won't tell me how
468
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:28.480
to think and conceptualize events that occurred
in history and possibly how they relate to
469
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.159
me personally or how they relate to
the world around me. Those kind of
470
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:38.119
skills involve critical thinking, and it
involves a big shift within classrooms from public
471
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:44.400
schools probably all the way up through
through your end at the university level,
472
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:50.159
and how we go about getting kids
to think to think differently. I would
473
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:53.719
say that what's most important is that
staff needs to start learning to do things
474
00:35:53.719 --> 00:36:00.039
differently, and they need to be
willing to invest in ongoing professional development that
475
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:05.400
enhances their skills to change the way
that they do things. One of the
476
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:08.320
things that I like to tell my
staff and I push it out on Twitter.
477
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:14.239
A lot is in education today.
We need to teach students for their
478
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:20.239
future, not our past. Oh
great, it's an interesting concept, yes,
479
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:23.840
and it has a lot to do
with mindset, because people that have
480
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:27.599
a fixed mindset might say, well, it was good enough for me,
481
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.760
why wouldn't it be good enough for
you? But people who have a growth
482
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:36.519
mindset would say, the world is
a lot different now than when I experience
483
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.159
school, So I need to think
differently about what I do because my job
484
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:45.159
is to prepare children for a world
that I don't necessarily know what it's going
485
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:49.920
to look like. Public education,
all public educators all over America are preparing
486
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:54.880
students for jobs that didn't exist five
years ago. That is a great point.
487
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:59.000
That is a great point, perfect
one. Let's hold that for a
488
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:01.400
second time for another short break.
Here, I'm Alice Cortez, your host.
489
00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:05.199
We are on the air with Evan
Robb, who is a principal who
490
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:07.880
is the principle of Johnson Williams Middle
School in Barryville, Virginia. He's the
491
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:13.280
author of the Principal's Leadership source book, Practices, Tools and Strategies for building
492
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.400
a thriving school community. He joins
us today from Winchester, Virginia. After
493
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:20.840
the break, we'll talk more about
the idea of creativity, as well as
494
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:37.480
many other new trends happening in education
today. Stay with us Friend us on
495
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:45.000
Facebook to keep up with what's empowering
the world. Voice America Empowerment. Alice
496
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:50.440
Cortez is a speaker and engagement and
development catalyst. She designs and delivers professional
497
00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:54.599
development, leadership and engagement workshops and
can bring her expertise to your organization.
498
00:37:54.880 --> 00:38:00.880
She will help ignite meaningful development within
your workforce that will increase inoyee engagement,
499
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.199
performance and retention. To learn more
or to invite Elise to speak to your
500
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:10.159
organization, please visit her at www
dot Elisecortes dot com. She would welcome
501
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:16.159
the opportunity to help get your employees
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00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:45.719
for more great ideas at Voice America
Empowerment. This is Working on Purpose with
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00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:50.159
Elise Cortes. To reach our program
today, please call in to one triple
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00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:54.000
eight three four six nine one four
one. Again that's one triple eight three
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00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:59.079
four six nine one four one.
You may also send an email to a
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00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:06.360
lease a l Se at police Coortes
dot com. Now back to Working on
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00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:10.719
Purpose. Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to Working on Purpose.
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00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:14.960
If you're just tuning in. My
guest is Principal Evan rob of Johnson
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00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:19.320
Williams Middle School. He speaks across
the country and leadership and the effective principle,
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00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:22.199
how to improve literacy in schools,
the digital principle, social media,
522
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:25.880
how to involve all staff and goal
setting, how to organize effective work teams,
523
00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.320
and the impact of culture and positivity
on work. He also enjoys authoring
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00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:36.239
his blog called the rob Review Blog. I'm your host, Alis Cortes so
525
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:38.920
Evan. Just before the break,
we were talking, of course, about
526
00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:43.159
critical thinking and the importance of being
able to develop that in students today,
527
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:45.960
and then you mentioned, while we
are off on the break together, how
528
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.280
that might relate to grading. Will
you say more about that? I certainly
529
00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:57.960
well appreciate your bringing up to the
forefront here. I have learned a tremendous
530
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:01.239
amount of grading and have the opportunity
to work with with our staff for several
531
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:07.360
years to think differently about the way
that we grade in schools, and a
532
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:10.199
lot of what I have learned has
been based off of research by Rick Wormelli
533
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:15.480
and Tom Gusky. My goal is
to get people to think differently. So
534
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:20.079
what I would say is that most
people that are listening tonight, at some
535
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.559
time or another, when they were
in school, dealt with the average and
536
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:29.159
in terms of all the grades that
they received across a nine week grading period,
537
00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:32.199
for example, and how they were
averaged together to be a descriptor of
538
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:36.519
what they learned. So I'll pose
a really simple question for people, and
539
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:38.840
hopefully some people can take this and
bring it back to their buildings, or
540
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:44.840
parents can consider this as they have
conversations also with teachers as they think about
541
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:47.159
grading. So here's a really really
simple example. Let's say that we are
542
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:53.079
all going to work on our running
skills and we practice running on the track.
543
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:54.840
So the first time we go up
to the track, we want to
544
00:41:54.920 --> 00:42:00.079
run the mile in twelve minutes,
and we practice, practice, practice,
545
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:02.599
and the next time we run it
in ten minutes, the next time we
546
00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:07.119
run it in eight minutes, and
finally, after lots of practice and some
547
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:13.960
good coaching along the way, we
run the mile in six minutes. So
548
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:16.800
my question, at least to people
would be how fast do you run the
549
00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:22.480
mile? And most people, when
they're given that question will say, well,
550
00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:27.159
I guess you run the mile in
six minutes because you started at twelve
551
00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:30.039
and you went twelve, ten,
eight, and six. But if you're
552
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:34.880
using the average, you would average
all of those times together and say eight
553
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:37.719
minutes, but eight minutes is not
a descriptor of how fast you can actually
554
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:43.760
run the mile. So think about
that in terms of a classroom and things
555
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:46.639
such as mastery learning and us wanting
to make sure that the grades that we
556
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:52.119
give students in our schools are representative
of their knowledge. So go along the
557
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:58.880
same example of the mile times that
I give, and consider a student who
558
00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:01.119
made some very poor grades beginning of
nine weeks, but have lots of intervention
559
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:05.400
and lots of support and don't on't
behold at the end of the nine weeks,
560
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:08.800
they take their final assessment and they
make an A, and the A
561
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:15.000
is representative of everything that they have
learned over the course of that nine weeks.
562
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.639
Should what they make in the beginning
of the nine weeks be average to
563
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:22.960
be held against them if it was
with that paint an accurate picture of what
564
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:30.880
they really know, and would it
incentivize them to continue learning and develop that
565
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.960
growth and an innovative mindset. I
think that that's a brilliant comment at least
566
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.440
because I would say, and this
would certainly come inside with the work of
567
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:44.360
Rick Rimelly, that the most important
thing that we can bring for kids in
568
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:47.800
schools all across America, But also, you as a college professor is hope.
569
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:52.840
And if you take away hope,
kids don't try. And if you
570
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:58.000
take away hope, I don't try
either. Right. It's a very very
571
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.000
important thing to have in schools.
But I believe that if we think a
572
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:06.719
little bit differently about how we do
things, we can find more opportunities to
573
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.800
give kids hope and more opportunities for
kids to be successful, because I would
574
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:13.760
say a lot of what we do
with grading all across the United States of
575
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:16.119
America is simply based off of the
grading that we experienced when we were in
576
00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:23.760
school. MM doesn't mean that it's
that it's good. Certainly means that there's
577
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:28.880
an opportunity to have some conversations about
it. And those are courageous conversations,
578
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:32.599
but those are conversations that are very
important for people in leadership positions to have
579
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:37.519
as we look to do the best
we can for students all across the country.
580
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:40.920
Great conversation, just the depth that
I was hoping we're to get from
581
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:44.599
you. Thank you. Well.
The other thing that you talked about that
582
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:46.440
I already cute up with you as
well, that I definitely want to address
583
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:51.400
here is this notion of creativity you
talked about thinking differently, and certainly in
584
00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:54.559
the work that we do in Insignium, which is so much around performance breakthrough
585
00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:59.920
organizational transformation, a lot of what
we're really getting at is helping people to
586
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:04.039
think and act differently. So,
first, would you just say a little
587
00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:08.800
bit about what's your perspective on how
is creativity encouraged at school? Then how
588
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:13.679
do you cultivate it? Cultivating it
is a really interesting question. I think
589
00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:19.960
I'll start there and say, and
this goes for anything, whether it's education
590
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:24.880
or any business. It's cultivated by
building trust and relationships with the people that
591
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:30.679
you work with within your organization.
People will not be comfortable to stretch outside
592
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:36.119
of their box and try new things
if they don't feel trusted and if trust
593
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.880
doesn't exist, and if those relationships
are there, people simply won't take chances.
594
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:45.559
They'll hunker down. So it's incumbent
on the leadership within an organization to
595
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:52.199
not only model creativity and celebrate creativity
and expose people to a professional development on
596
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:59.519
creativity, but to communicate the importance
of it and establish trust and relationships with
597
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:02.960
staff try things, because when people
try things, sometimes their fear is that
598
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:09.559
they won't do it well, and
there's a leadership opportunity for administrators to set
599
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:14.360
the stage that it's okay and we're
all not going to be perfect on things
600
00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:16.840
when we first try things, but
if we don't try things, we're never
601
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:22.320
going to be good at doing something
different. I think that schools need to
602
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:27.800
take a really good look at the
time that they have within their school day
603
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:30.960
and the things that they do to
cultivate creativity. I would encourage people that
604
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:37.599
are listening tonight to check out AJ
Giuliani's blog or connect with Aj on Twitter.
605
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:42.800
He has some fascinating stuff on a
thing called Genius Hour, which is
606
00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:46.000
very similar to something that grew out
of the Google organization, where people were
607
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:52.039
given twenty percent of their time to
work on innovation and creativity within the within
608
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:58.760
within Google. Genius Hour is all
based about around people or students rather exploring
609
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.599
things that they're particularly interested in and
delving deeper into them in a very different
610
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:09.440
kind of way. Wow, I'm
thrilled to hear that some of these concepts
611
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:14.320
that are working well in the world
of business, like what you mentioned at
612
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:19.280
Google, are being considered and brought
into the classroom. That is incredibly exciting
613
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:22.920
to me, well, I appreciate
you sharing that. You know, I
614
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:28.440
didn't outside of the scope of our
conversation tonight, but years ago, and
615
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:31.000
I still continue to have a really
strong interest in total quality management and the
616
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:35.239
work of Edward Deming. I'm sure
you're familiar with that with your business background,
617
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:38.360
yes, and Deming was a big
proponent of something called the eighty five
618
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:45.159
fifteen model, which is eighty five
percent of the problems that exist within any
619
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:50.760
organization have to do with the system. They're typically not people related, and
620
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.079
so we need to look at how
we design the systems, in this case,
621
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:59.039
how we design schools to set up
opportunities for people to do things differently,
622
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.280
to think differently, to create exciting
opportunities for kids that are different.
623
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:07.679
Oh my gosh, it's just too
bad. I only have you for an
624
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.039
hour, because there's much more I
want to talk with you about, and
625
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:14.280
we're getting close to the end here. I definitely want to hit this next
626
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:17.000
thing that's very much on the forefront
of my mind here, Evan, and
627
00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:22.159
that is that I read in the
Wall Street Journal that schools are returning to
628
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:27.599
the idea of recess now as somebody
who is very interested in physical fitness,
629
00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:31.320
and certainly we have a problem with
obesity in this in this nation. I'm
630
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:37.000
really curious about what's driving this neat
this this idea to return to recess.
631
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:39.239
I know, I knew, I've
got a fourteen year old daughter, and
632
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:43.280
of course i know there's been an
emphasis on having more time for testing and
633
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:45.920
more time for learning, more time
in the classroom. So why the shift.
634
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:50.840
Well, that's a really interesting question. You know, sometimes when and
635
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:53.639
this goes true for this is true
for any business, whether education or the
636
00:48:53.679 --> 00:49:00.840
business world, when people are questioned
about having to do more, to do
637
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:05.519
something a little bit different, response
is often to have more time. So,
638
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:07.119
well, if I could do that, but I would need more time
639
00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:10.719
to do that. But the other
way to look at it is, you
640
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:15.199
know it would be is the time
that you are using the most effective way
641
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:20.199
to use your time? And can
you use time differently? And I think
642
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:27.440
in terms of fitness and kids working
on having some breaks within their school day.
643
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:31.679
That's a really interesting way to think
about schools. And again I would
644
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:37.079
come back to again, a lot
of what we do within schools across America
645
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:42.239
we do because we've always done them. I would you'd love to know why
646
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:45.320
most schools in America seem to have
four minutes in between every class. I'm
647
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:49.320
guessing that a long time ago,
someone decided that that was a good thing
648
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:53.000
to do, and most schools in
America have four minutes in between classes.
649
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:58.679
But to my knowledge, there's no
research that four minutes is any better than
650
00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:01.800
three and a half, four or
five. But again, we do it
651
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:08.960
because we've always done it that way. There are schools across the world that
652
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:14.159
look differently at integrating physical breaks for
kids, and I would point people to
653
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:20.000
take a look at what's happening in
Finland. Finland for several years has been
654
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:24.519
a big proponent of students having more
physical activity during their school day. I
655
00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:31.599
believe Finland and also some research on
brain breaks where kids have breaks from their
656
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:37.079
academic day during the school Our research
shows and improve cognitive skills and improve perseverance
657
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:42.360
and grit with students. I's an
the opportunity to develop social and emotional growth
658
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:47.760
as kids moved through adolescens. One
of the things that I would say is
659
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:55.960
that I would always encourage any administrator
to take a day and shadow a student
660
00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:00.320
and see what it's like to go
through a school day from eight in the
661
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:05.199
morning until three point thirty in the
afternoon. And what I would venture to
662
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:09.360
guess is that if your school has
a very engaging environment where kids are moving
663
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:14.559
around and their learning, and they're
working in groups and they have cooperative opportunities,
664
00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:17.880
probably could be a pretty invigorating day. But if it is a day
665
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:22.239
similar to the days that I experienced
for many many years when I was in
666
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:28.800
middle school and high school, it
could be rather tedious because sitting through a
667
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:32.440
day of lecture and sitting and taking
notes one block after the other is very
668
00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:37.679
very hard to do, certainly hard
for me to do as a fifty one
669
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:42.039
year old, ma'am, and extremely
hard to do for a twelve year old
670
00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:45.800
who has a lot of energy.
So I think that we need again to
671
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:52.360
continue to look at at our day, you know, at the way instruction
672
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:55.800
is delivered within our schools, and
of course, as you could tell,
673
00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:04.440
am an opponent for instruction that is
that is engaging for students, and also
674
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.079
taking a look at the time that
we have within the school day and looking
675
00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:13.039
at some opportunities to do things a
little bit different. And again that means
676
00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:16.559
shaking up that box a little bit, because it is very easy within education,
677
00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:22.800
but within any business to be tied
down to one way of doing things.
678
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:27.599
But when you really really dig into
that bag, you realize that there
679
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.480
may not really be any reason that
reason other than you've only done it that
680
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:37.039
way. Oh my gosh. Well, and so when I think about just
681
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:38.840
last week when I was on the
air with Martha Parker, she was talking
682
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:43.360
about ergonomics and her four ms.
One of those m's she talks about is
683
00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:46.480
engineering mini breaks in our work schedules, and of course that applies to school
684
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:52.679
as well, and just the importance
of being able to infuse that change of
685
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:57.800
focus and certainly having the physical piece
integrated into that as well, and just
686
00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:01.760
how important that is for san for
peace, for productivity she talked about as
687
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:07.480
well. So it fits right into
what you're talking about too, absolutely,
688
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:10.599
it does, you know. I
Again, what I would always encourage is,
689
00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:20.800
don't I guess I want to make
sure we're articulating this right. It
690
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.920
is always good to look at how
we do things and reflect on our practices
691
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.119
and see if there's a different way
to do things. I would encourage,
692
00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:32.559
And I'm looking forward to myself this
fall to follow the student all the way
693
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:37.920
through a school day and being able
to debrief and share some really honest reflections
694
00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:44.719
with our staff about that as we
continue on our journey to reevaluate some things
695
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:49.880
that we're doing. Oh gosh,
I've gotten so much of this conversation and
696
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:52.719
we are officially at a time.
So let me thank you so much for
697
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:55.440
coming on the show, for sharing
your wisdom, your passion, your perspective.
698
00:53:55.639 --> 00:54:00.960
You gave us so many helpful ideas
and different and people who have contributed
699
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:04.320
to your learning. Thank you so
much for being with us. It has
700
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:07.480
absolutely been my pleasure. Thank you
very much for having me on your show.
701
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:10.280
If you want to learn more about
Principal Evan rob and the work he's
702
00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:14.159
doing in education, I would encourage
you to visit his blog, which is
703
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:20.840
the robreviewblog dot com. So that's
the and Rob is with two B's reviewblog
704
00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:24.360
dot com. Join us next week
when we talk with Staff Sergeant Jason Morgan,
705
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:28.719
who has a most remarkable story of
service and survival while serving in the
706
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:31.119
Air Force and is now on a
mission to help people embrace their own adversity
707
00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:37.280
and serve brothers to find purpose in
their life. He actually is both quadriplegic
708
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:40.159
and an mputee and has much to
share. Also is the single father of
709
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:44.599
three boys. Incredible man to talk
to, be able to share a perspective
710
00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:46.920
about adversity. So see you.
Then, remember that work is one third
711
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:57.519
of our lives, So let's work
on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this
712
00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:00.679
week's program. Be sure to tune
into Working on Purpose, featuring your host,
713
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:06.639
Elise Cortes, every Wednesday at six
pm Eastern Time three pm Pacific Time
714
00:55:06.679 --> 00:55:10.599
on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.
This week, find your life's purpose at work
