UPA - George Simpson

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Okay. Australia, the sixth largest
country on Earth, an ancient, rugged,
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and unforgiving land with abundant animal life, both beautiful and deadly. Found
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within its all inspiring landscapes and natural
beauty. Exists a d history of unexplained
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mysteries for anyone with the courage to
investigate them. Tonight we joined Ben on
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a journey across this vast island continent
in search of answers to events that have
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reshaped the lives of so many that
have been exposed to Unexplained Phenomena Australia with
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your host Ben Hurled. Get everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unexplained
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Phenomena Australia. And it is absolutely
fantastic to have my first live interview on
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this show. After about we're up
to about twenty episodes now. It gives
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me great pleasure to welcome long time
Australian UFO researcher and good friend George Simpson
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to the show. Welcome George.
Yeah, good to see you then.
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Yeah, fantastic to see you too. And I just wanted to sort of
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just quickly start off by just talking
briefly about how I actually met you in
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the first place. So I had
been back in the mid two thousands,
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I'd been reading the Ufologist magazine and
you had your regular featuring there and yeah,
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and I had seen that you were
in Victoria, and I reached out
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to you and I said that I
was interested in being involved in in UFO
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research. And at that time,
you were holding meetings in Chelsea, and
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I came down and I came to
probably about two or three of those meetings,
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and I met you first of all
through the meetings that you were held
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in Chelsea. And that would be
around about twenty ten sometime, so okay,
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right, yeah, so that was
that was when I first met you.
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And but you've been around the UFO
scene for a very very long time,
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and I just wanted to maybe if
you could give us a little bit
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of background on when the interest started
new and your journey through what you've done
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in the UFO veled up until today. Well, really it was because of
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watching television when I was a kid
um science fiction. Really I never got
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into Star Trek in any sense at
all, but years before Star Trek came
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on, there was a TV science
fiction show called The Outer Limits, and
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that there was a different alien on
TV. Every week and so and we
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all collected the Bubblegum cards and watched
all these TV shows. You know,
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there's arguments at home with most sisters
because I wanted to watch that show every
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week and they wanted to watch something
else. And there was only one TV
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and the TV was black and white
too, so I got to see every
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second episode that came on air.
But they had these sci fi stories and
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they had a different alien every week, so that really intrigued me. And
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you know, that was in the
early days of the space race. It
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was pre Apollo, so they had
the Gemini spacecraft. Then those little Gemini
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spacecrafts were going into orbit and stuff
with people in them, the little tin
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can you know that David Bowie is
singing about, I'm up in this tin
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can. They were the Gemini things, I think, and then with Apolo
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Apolo, everything got more sophisticated and
before we knew it, they'll get they
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were going to go to the Moon. So there was a book at school
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that I read. They made us
read books at school. They taught us
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how to read, and then they
made us read them. You had to
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pick a book out of the library
and read it. And I found one
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called Flying Sources, Where Do They
Come From? Right by an Australian author
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called Richard Tambling. Yes, and
I saw that in the library, so
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I borrowed that and I read that
and it's really I think it's the first
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book I've actually read, you know, the first book I read all the
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way through and it was all about
all these different UFO sightings all over Australia,
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and I was hooked from then on. But there was also stories of
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uphone encounters and things that were going
on around that time as well. You
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know, over during those years,
there was all kinds of cases happening,
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Yeah, and they were being reported
in the news and so they always stood
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out in my mind, you know, all these from things that were going
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on. I remember the Tully,
the Tully Source and nests being in the
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news. Yes, that was around
the time in my childhood, you know,
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when I was in primary school,
and I was in primary school at
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the same time that a lot of
the west All kids were in primary school
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too, and they had the Westall
case happened with all the school kids seeing
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something that flew over their school.
But I excuse me, I M we
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didn't hear about the Westall case when
it happened, because if they suppressed it.
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What's very interesting about that case is
the what are the leading Melbourne newspapers
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that in those days was called Truth, The Truth newspaper they al had the
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topless girl on page two or three, and very popular newspaper with the gambling
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fraternity and all that, but they
had they had a journalist who was very
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interested in the UFO subject. And
the very week that Westall happened, they
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their newspaper article front page had a
photo that one of their own photographers had
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taken over Mount dani in All and
it was on the front of that paper
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and they said, if anybody has
any UFO stories, contact us and let
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us know. And that was the
week that Westall happened, and it was
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and it didn't get in. It
was never mentioned in the Truth newspaper.
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I've gone through all of the archive
Truth newspapers for years and news years,
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and I can't find any mention of
Worstalls. It was very well covered up.
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Isn't that interesting? Because you know, because that Truth magazine ran for
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a very long time and as you
say, didn't have follow UFO stories,
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and they did some fairly decent reporting
as well. They did a good journalist,
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and one of those guys that was
involved with truth, I'm pretty sure
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was John Pinkney. And he's written
a lot of books about UFOs and stuff
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over the years, and he also
wrote in People Picks magazine and Post magazine.
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And I used to read all of
his reports. I always read them
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with great interest. I met him
years later. I met him recently in
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the last decade. He died a
couple of years ago now, but I
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met him before he died, and
he showed me this great, big poster
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photo that somebody made for him of
this object that's in the front of the
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book there that that strange object.
He had it blown up huge and yeah,
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and it's thanks to him preserving that
image that we can still find the
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image. Because of a lot of
things have happened, the original negative has
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gone missing. Yeah, so terrible, isn't it that that's gone? After
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all was time. Thanks to John
John Pinkney, the original image can be
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preserved. So that's good, that's
reliv it. And you're in. You're
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in so you so you had the
interest during the child of the bombing years
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and then later on you joined view. Well, the UFO subject was an
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interest of mine on and off,
and periodically these things come up in the
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news and you said, you think, oh, that's an interesting case.
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The Knowles case was one that was
very interesting. Whether the car picked the
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family up or the object picked the
car up with the family in it and
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then dropped it on the road.
Well, when that case happened, the
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subject got into the news a bit, and some gentleman wrote a letter into
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the newspaper that got my attention.
His name was George Bond and he was
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from Sandringham and he wrote into the
newspaper. So I looked up. I
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looked up the name Bond, Sandringham
in the in the white pages, and
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I found his funder. I rang
him up and he was guy who wrote
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this newspaper article. So I had
to chat to him and he told me
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he used to go to the UFO
Society meetings in the city years ago,
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and he said, yeah, I'm
really interesting in the subject. I should
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start going to those meetings because that's
where you get all the information about UFO
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stuff. So I started going.
Because I took his advice, I started
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going. That's why I started going
to UFO meetings. And then around yeah,
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well was just around just after the
time that the Knolls case happened.
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Yeah, so late eighties. Very
soon I ended up joining the committee after
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about just going as a member for
about five years. I used to sometimes
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say I've got something really interesting.
I want to show to the whole all
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the people that are here tonight,
And I'd sort of pushed my way on
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stage and show show and use paper
article or play at tape or something.
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Yeah, I've got I've got a
very good recording off the radio. And
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I played that to everybody, and
the committee saw that I was fairly commit
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it. And then they had a
big argument and a big falling out with
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one of their committee meetees meet members, two or three of them quit on
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the same night. They had a
big disagreement about something, and then they
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asked me to fill in to take
the place of somebody who had left.
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That somebody was a fellow named John
Chatel. He was one of the ones
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that had a big argument with them
and left. Yeah, and so I
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was I sort of went into take
his place in a sense. There was
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a couple other guys left as well. So yeah, I ended up on
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the committee. Now you really do
learn about a group or a society.
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If you become part of their committee, you do, you do. That's
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where you really see what goes on. And it's a good training ground because
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later on I ended up running the
Australian the Victorian branch of the Australian UFO
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Research Network. But I just had
eight years of training with U Force Force
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before you. Yeah, so that
that really helped. We'll see what the
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trouble with view Force was. They
they wanted to um, they thought they
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were pretty exclusive as a group,
and they they didn't want anything to do
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with anybody else around Australia. They
just wanted to keep themselves secluded. And
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they're cutting themselves off from all the
other cases and all the other stories,
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and I thought that was a bit
silly. I sort of explained that I'd
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like to be in contact with people
like Bill Chalker and Keith Basterfield and oh
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no, no, no, no, you can't do that. Then,
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those they're terrible guys. You know, they'll they'll take your stories and write
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them up as their own and they
won't even give you a mention, you
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know. So yeah, well that
didn't bother me. I just wanted to
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be in contact with everybody. Well
then when Robert Froller's group came along and
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it was Australia White. I found
a magazine by chance in a bookshop and
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it was one of their first published
magazines, which was The Uthologist. I
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got their contact details and rang them
up and said, do you want a
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Victorian and correspondent. They said,
yeah, so great. So I wanted
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to write about what was happening in
Victorian and give it to them and they
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would put it in the magazine would
go around to Australia. That's great.
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Yeah, well with with view force. If I wrote an article they gave
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it to them, they'd reject half
of them and they'd say, oh,
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you put somebody's name in the article, so you can't. We can't do
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that. We can't put anybody's name
in an article. What they were frightened
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about being sued. I think,
you know, because Paul Woman was an
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American and he probably warned them if
you use anybody's name, they can sue
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you, so they you know,
And it was very frusto writing an article
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and then to be just to bounce, you know, so I'd have to
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rewrite it and take all the names
out or something. But one day I
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wrote an article and they rejected it. I sent it to Aupahn, to
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the Upologist magazine. They published it. Yeah, and the next time I
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went to a committee meeting, you
could cut the air of a knife.
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I'd been a very naughty boy.
A magazine were not around Australia as opposed
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to the local journal, and they
had knocked it back and there it was
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published. They were not happy.
They lost control of me. So that
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was one of the reasons why I
ended up getting more involved with Aupahn.
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Had a better magazine and a better
philosophy, a better idea, Let's share
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the information all around Australia, let's
not hold it to ourselves. It was
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almost a generational shift, wasn't it. You know, going from the view
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Force which had been around since the
fifties with a lot of the with a
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lot of the same faces for that
period of time, and the way they
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ran things were very much in an
old school kind of kind of the way.
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And by the time you get to
Robert Froler and a youth for there
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more, it was the nineties and
more progressive moving forward. Yeah, it
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was a complete a complete see change, a complete change of attitude, enlightenment,
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sharing of information not holding it back
much better, you know, and
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being Australia wide too, they had
they had a director in every state,
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so you'd had different groups everywhere.
It was much better idea, and they
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had bigger conference they had big conferences
they put on and they'd have international guest
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speakers from all You could go to
a conference and you could beat Travis Walton
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and yeah, and you know,
I stayed in the same house as Travis
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Walton for a weekend and I met
George Napp through the same process. Spent
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a weekend. I spent a weekend
with George Napp. It was great,
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fantastic got to know Travis Watton really
well, and and a whole of other
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people too, you know, so
really really good organ I was glad that
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I had done that because otherwise I'd
just be stuck in the same little room
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in Brighton with these old people that
didn't want anything to do with anybody.
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Just really, it's so hard to
get your head around that, isn't it,
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you know, because because the UFO
phenomenon is obviously a worldwide phenomenon,
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why wouldn't you want to know all
that information? But it just comes down
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to those rival reason you know,
that's very unfortunate that anyone who's been around
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UFO Field knows there's rival reason people
don't share information and it's a look very
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competitive at some you know. So
yeah, one of the first committee meetings
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I went to, they wanted me
to join the committee, and I didn't
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want to be on the committee,
and they said, well, come along
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anyway and just see what it's like. And I went along. That They
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tricked me into going, and they
said, look, if you come to
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three meetings in a row, you're
a now member of the committee. So
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I stayed away for a while,
and eventually they tricked me into going three
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weeks, three times in a row. They had them once a month,
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and eventually they got me into their
committee. And that I saw it as
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an opportunity to do some writing,
because I'd never done much writing. But
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writing reports was interesting to me because
I'd read a lot of stuff that Bill
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Chalker had written, and he'd written
for a few magazines. He wrote quite
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interesting stories. And what was interesting
about that was at the first committee meeting
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that I actually went to, I
actually mentioned the name Bill Chalker, and
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I was almost shouted down for mentioning
his name. Bring that unholy name.
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How do you mention that name in
this holy place kind of a thing.
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It was like that, it was
ridiculous. That is like the guy it's
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it's so hard to believe. And
now it's a lovely segue in some ways
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leading into the fact that after after
after all this this UFO background that you've
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gotten, and you've looked at many
many cases over the years, and one
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that's captivated you perhaps the most,
is that was the disappearance of Fred Valentice.
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And you've recently, very recently,
just completed a book on Fred Valenti.
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And the thing that must be said
about this, it's been decade since
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anyone has written a book about Fred, and and i'd like to have just
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talked to you about that process.
And I'm just going to bring it up
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onto the screen so people can see
the new the new book. So it's
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called Nothing on Radar, The Valentiice
Mystery George Simpson, available on Amazon.
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So and I highly recommend anyone who's
who's followed the Fred valentiic story or interested
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in Australian stories in general, to
grab yourself a copy of this book.
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It really is essential reading if you
into UFOs and particularly intrigued by Fred Lentics.
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It covers a lot of years because
it's forty four years ago this year
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that had happened. Yes, we
had a fourtieth anniversary for him Arabian Airport
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on the fortieth lovely and wonderful day
that we had with yourself and Steve Roby,
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etc. Etc. I'm just going
to just for those who may not
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be familiar, I'm just going to
pop the picture of Fred again. So
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that's Fred Valentich. He disappeared on
the twenty first of October nineteen seventy eight
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while flying his Cessna over Bass Strait
and this was the actual plane, so
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that is DSJA HDSJ and he disappeared
in this area here when he took off
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from Araban and he was heading to
king Ireland, which is just to the
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northwest of Tasmania. So that's the
short version for anyone who's listening to the
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show not familiar with it. But
it was a very big story. Well
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why it was so big really was
because we have a pilot who's up in
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the air flying a plane and describing
this thing that he's seeing from in the
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plane, something flying around him,
traveling at speeds that he's never seen before,
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and looking like something he's never seen
before. And you know, he
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asks, you know, are there
any military aircraft, because they're the only
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things he can think of that could
go that quick. And he keeps being
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told no, there's no aircraft in
your vicinity, you know, and I
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think about three occasions he's trying to
ascertain how can this thing be doing what
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it's doing. At one point he
said, it's just passed over me a
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thousand feet above, at least a
thousand feet above, and then for a
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while completely vanished. And then at
one point he says, he seems to
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be playing some sort of a game. M He says, um, well,
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it was a game. It was
a cat and mouse game, you
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know, and Fred was the mouse. Unfortunately, you know, this thing
247
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was flying rings around him. He
actually said, it's flying over me a
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two three times at a time at
speeds I cannot identify. That's an amazing
249
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Well hang on, try unpacking that
for a minute. What does that mean?
250
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What can fly over you at two
to three times at once at a
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time. It's just completely bizarre.
You know. It's a very very strange
252
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description, a very detailed and compact
description of something very odd going on,
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And of course he's trying to problem
solve this in a in a in a
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pilot's way, isn't he like he's
he's not up there, um, you
255
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know, talking about at this in
a in a in an ordinary civilian ways.
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He's addressing this problem that he's got, trying to troubleshoot it with Steve
257
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Roby at Tullamarine on the ground,
and and he's trying to compress that those
258
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sort of statements, isn't he well? And from Steve's point of view,
259
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there's not very much you can do
when you're talking to somebody over a two
260
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way radio and you're you know,
you're holding the microphone in one hand flying
261
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a plane with the other m you
know, and there's not really much Steve
262
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can do it except observe and listen
and talk to him. I mean Steve
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can't see anything, of course,
it's just all over the air. It's
264
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a radio communication and that's all.
Yeah, exactly. So what the book?
265
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What was your aim in so in
writing the book? What was what
266
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were you trying to trying to achieve? And what were you what points were
267
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you trying to make or what new
information were you were you trying to present
268
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:07.160
to a century audience. Well,
it's a pretty complicated question to answer.
269
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Fred. My first thing is I've
come across a lot of websites where they
270
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discuss various websites, especially once with
pilots. People in the aviation industry have
271
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little websites where they all get on
and chat about various things. And every
272
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now and then the Valentage case will
come up and they all start talking about,
273
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Oh, yeah, he's the guy
who was flying upside down and got
274
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disorientated and crashed into the sea.
Okay, well, if that happened,
275
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you crash assess now into the sea
from four and a half thousand feet because
276
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he was just asked what's your actual
level by Stevens and his answer was four
277
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.680
thousand and five hundred feet. You
crash the plane from that hide into the
278
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.400
sea, things break up, you
get and you're going to get stuff floating,
279
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and they would have found something.
They would have found, yeah,
280
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and even aviation fuel would have leaked
from the impact, would have the tanks
281
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:11.319
would have popped or burst or something. There would have been some fluid somewhere
282
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and aviation fuel floats on the water. They found some diesel fuel, which
283
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turned out to be marine diesel fuel. They don't run aircraft on that stuff
284
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as far as I'm aware. No, So different different, different fuel.
285
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Yeah, and the engines, you
know, have a different everything's different.
286
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You were sort of trying to get
to put the record straight in some ways,
287
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.599
like people were making uninformed, you
know statements. Some of the things
288
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people say about Fred are disgusting,
to be quite honesty, They really they
289
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discussed me the things they say about
him, and they laugh about him and
290
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say that he was an incompetent fool
who wanted to see a u FO.
291
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Nothing could be further from the truth. He had seen he had had a
292
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UFO siding, and he'd also seen
UFO records that were held at the Air
293
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Force base when he was an air
cadet. UM they had they thought he
294
00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:18.079
was so good at and so enthusiastic
about flying. They wanted him to become
295
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:23.440
a trainer so he could train other
people to fly. But he didn't get
296
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into the Air Force, so that
never happened. So that's why he pursued
297
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a career in um commercial aviation because
he couldn't get into the Air Force.
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The Air Force on he take the
top um, top two or three percent
299
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of the population. You've got to
have an IQ of about six thousand,
300
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:48.319
you know, to get into the
air Force's Fred's the beans. Fred was
301
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clever enough, but not clever enough, not that high level. You know
302
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how anyone in the population has that
high level of you know, of of
303
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:04.720
academic proficiency. You know, it's
a very very very elite group of people
304
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:11.359
that it get to fly our fighter
jets. But he was good at being
305
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:15.680
a pilot. He was good,
He was good competent um, he was
306
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able to competently control an aircraft.
His girlfriend went up with him a few
307
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.599
times, Ronda, and only you
know, Ronda, you better. She
308
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:27.880
said that he sometimes flew acrobatics when
she was in the plane. Well she
309
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:33.200
trying to make a throw up or
something. Well, I mean, yeah,
310
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.640
how acrobatic. Can you get an
assessment? Imagine doing a loop the
311
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.960
loop or something, you know,
Yes, no, that's that's what Fred
312
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:47.319
was doing, just showing off.
He could, you know, he could
313
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fly the plane. He knew what
he was doing. I think any other
314
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pilot that was in his situation at
that time, at that time, at
315
00:26:52.920 --> 00:27:00.279
that place would have encountered the same
absolutely, And when you read the transcript
316
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.519
or pay close attention to it,
you can see that this is a pilot
317
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:10.000
who is trouble shooting this particular problem
that he's got, and it's a very
318
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.960
unique problem. He's trying to identify
it. He can't identify. They ask
319
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.960
Steve Robi asks him, can you
identify the aircraft? And he says,
320
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:26.519
he says, he says no.
He says that all I can tell you
321
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.920
is that it's a long shape.
As it goes past, I can't tell
322
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.359
you more than that it's got such
speed. So as it goes past,
323
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.519
it's a long shape and it has
such speed. At one point he said,
324
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.920
it looks like landing lights. Oh, they've had a mistake, I
325
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:48.039
think in the transcription too. Very
early on when he says, is there
326
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:53.920
any known aircraft below five thousand right
at the beginning, and Steve says no
327
00:27:53.960 --> 00:28:02.319
known aircraft and then says, I
have seems to be a large aircraft blow
328
00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:07.079
five thousand. But the transcript they
heard that wrong, they said, they
329
00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:14.200
said the friends said I am,
I am, seems to be a large
330
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:18.720
aircraft below five thousand. Didn't make
sense. He actually says, I have
331
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.559
what seems to I have seems to
be a large aircraft. So I've written
332
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.400
that in the book. I've tried
to make it a more accurate transcript.
333
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:30.920
But also something that was pointed out
by Dick Haynes when he was out here.
334
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:36.640
Doctor Richard Haynes from NASSA wrote a
book very early on about this case
335
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:41.240
too, called Melbourne Episode. The
Case Study of Missing Pilot was a very
336
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.279
disappointing book to read. It was
a very very dry read and very disappointing.
337
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.559
And I couldn't remember everybody who was
getting behind and saying, oh,
338
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:51.720
this is very exciting and then we'll
we all ready, but we were going
339
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:57.559
what this going on about? He
made up four different made up stories of
340
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:03.920
what might have happened to Fred other
than him having an encounter with what he
341
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.920
described just complete waste of time,
you know. But I do use that
342
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:11.119
book as a reference because it had
the tradescript in it, even though it
343
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:15.400
was inaccurate, and they mixed the
pages up as well, so complete mix
344
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:22.640
up, unfortunately. But that book
came out in ninety two, I think
345
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.599
or something, and it's out of
print. There's another book that came out
346
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:30.680
called The Devil's Meridian, which has
a lot about a lot about the Valentiage
347
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:34.119
case in that a lot of detail
about other things going on around the time
348
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:38.039
too. Very very good reference,
very good reference book, that one,
349
00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.359
But that's not in print anymore.
That was done by a couple of journalists
350
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:48.400
from Sydney, I think, yeah, and that up until your book has
351
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:52.480
probably been the best one for a
general reader to look at and get a
352
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.920
good handle on it. And now
you've sort of brought that into the twenty
353
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:03.279
first century for a new I'm hoping
to that. Devil's Regim was by Killian
354
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:12.039
Leicster. Yeah, it came out
in nineteen eighty Yeah, so many years.
355
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:17.000
It's been out of print for many
years. And let's see, Richard
356
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:22.759
Haynes's book came out in nineteen eighty
nine, so it's been a long time
357
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.240
since we had fresh eyes on it. Yeah. Well, also I wanted
358
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:32.720
to I got permission to use that
photograph, the roy Manifold photo on the
359
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.880
front cover, well, to use
it at all in the book, but
360
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.400
I decided to put it on the
front cover because I think it's such a
361
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:44.799
stunning photograph. That photo the Royd
Manifold took because he wasn't aware that there
362
00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:48.799
was anything there when he took that
shot. For those are looking at his
363
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.079
watch, yeah, he wasn't.
For those who weren't familiar with that,
364
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:57.079
that was the series of photographs that
were taken um near Cape Otway by a
365
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:02.240
plumber who was on holiday at the
same time that Fred flew flew over a
366
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:06.680
very similar time to that. So
those photos were sent away to America for
367
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.559
analysis and they were There was a
lot of scrutiny put onto those pictures because
368
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:15.880
it really does tie and adds a
lot of weight to what Fred was reporting.
369
00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:21.799
Yeah, well it's a very odd
object too. He took a series
370
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.359
of six photographs pictures, Yeah,
and it was only the fifth one that
371
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:33.440
had this unusual object in it.
Mum. I think the fourth photo had
372
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:38.400
a disturbance in the water. It
looked like there was, but the sea
373
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:42.440
was nearly flat. I'll just bake
up again on the screen. I've just
374
00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:47.960
brought the book cover back up and
yeah, so for people who are who
375
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.319
are looking, you'll see that this
is the photo that George is talking about
376
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:55.279
on the cover of Nothing on Radar. So that object there, and I've
377
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:57.200
had it on this show in previous
episode as well, when I did an
378
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:00.799
episode on Fred valentis previously, so
you can see this is the object that
379
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:06.680
Fred's talking about that was taken by
Roy on the and that's the very night
380
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.839
that Fred disappeared, so you can
see it was a beautiful evening. And
381
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:14.519
the object you've got the sort of
the top it's like a spinning top sort
382
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:17.079
of a shape, and the and
the sort of the the energy coming off
383
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:20.960
to the left and the cloud to
the right. So it's a it's an
384
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:24.759
amazing, amazing picture. It is. What it trigged me by, it
385
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:30.799
is the little an area next to
the object is like a blue sparkly area
386
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:35.960
in the sky. It's not in
the previous photos or the one after.
387
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:40.559
Just in this photo, just around
this object, there's a field of like
388
00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:47.319
blue sparkles and the camera has picked
it up. Yeah. And what's interesting
389
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:55.480
about that is we had a lady
when when my daughter was going to either
390
00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:01.880
kindergarten or pre kinder there's kindergarten in
the very next street to us, and
391
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:08.759
there was That was the other time
I started going to the committee or becoming
392
00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:13.880
a member of the committee, and
my wife had mentioned for some reason that
393
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:19.720
I was she thought I was going
to miss some event that was significant in
394
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:23.279
the life of our little daughter was
growing up, because I was going to
395
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:29.160
go to this darn committee meeting and
they said what committee is that, and
396
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:32.680
then she said the UFO Research Committee, and this lady just started laughing,
397
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:36.119
said, Ah, that's that's a
whole lot of bunkum that stuff, it's
398
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:38.640
a lot of rubbish. A couple
of weeks later, she was standing at
399
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:44.880
my front door, excited like crazy, jumping out of a skin, jumping
400
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:47.400
up and down on the spot,
wanting to tell me about a UFO sighting.
401
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:54.039
She had just had so gone from
a complete skeptic to seeing one.
402
00:33:54.119 --> 00:34:00.920
And the one that she saw flew
right over her house. She could see
403
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:06.359
it. She was washing the dishes, standing at the kitchen window looking out
404
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.039
on the horizon. There was a
big, bright light coming towards the getting
405
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:13.079
bigger and bigger and bigger, and
she said to her husband, Hey,
406
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:15.360
come and look at this, Come
and look at this, and he wasn't
407
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:20.679
interested, and she was just about
screaming by the time it was got bigger
408
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:23.360
and bigger. They both ran into
the backyard to watch this thing go over,
409
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:28.280
and it was so big it was
like the size of a football field.
410
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:30.920
It marked the whole sky out as
it went over, and it was
411
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:35.960
silent. They had a big row
of lights along the front edge of it.
412
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:42.119
And she said this, She was
interested in this big object that went
413
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:46.679
over there. Where we live here, the beach goes right there's a beach
414
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:52.039
side suburb. There's a whole row
of suburbs, and we've got the bay
415
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:55.400
Port fill of bay right there,
so all the beaches are down there now.
416
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:00.800
The planes from Rabbit Airport fly up
and down along the beach. It's
417
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:02.360
a good for them because if something
goes wrong, they could land on the
418
00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:09.440
beach without hitting houses and stuff.
Well, this thing was going along the
419
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:13.559
same way where all the planes go, and it went right over her place
420
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:15.039
and went right over here. And
I wasn't home, so I didn't see
421
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:22.360
anything. But what she said was
she could see a plane going along near
422
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.800
the beach, and she could hear
the plane down over It's about half a
423
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:30.480
kilometer from her house, but you
can hear the planes as they go along.
424
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.039
This huge thing blocked the whole sky
out when above her, made no
425
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:42.360
sound, and it wasn't a balloon. It was like the size of a
426
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:49.360
football field and silent, but what
her husband was really interested in. It
427
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.679
was not only that this big object
was flying along silently, but there was
428
00:35:53.239 --> 00:36:00.559
on one side of it there was
a big field of bright blue sparkling in
429
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:04.760
there. Wow, so this is
coming back to similar to what we see
430
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.559
on the row manifold photo. That's
what you can see in the manifold photo.
431
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:14.039
Yeah. Yeah, so when you
so so listeners, when you go
432
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.079
out and peaches George's book, have
a really good look at that cover photo
433
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:22.960
and you'll see quite clearly what he's
talking about with that blue sparkle coming off
434
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:28.840
the coming off the object. That's
it's really good to see a similar a
435
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.639
similar story like that. Now with
the disappearance, there's the theories have raged
436
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:36.760
over the years, haven't they,
George, about about what happened. There's
437
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:38.639
the theories that he went into a
spiral, ended up in the ocean,
438
00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:43.559
that he was flying upside down,
that he crashed and he flew off to
439
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.119
South Australia somewhere. There's you know
that he was, that he was running
440
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:52.039
drugs everything under the stun. People
saw him in Argentina, like there was
441
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:55.719
all these stories that came out about
Fred. Yeah. One in connection was
442
00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:01.800
one that you received several years ago
was about armor in South Australia. Would
443
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:06.280
you like to tell that for a
little for a little while, right,
444
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:10.000
okay, okay, Well that that
is a more recent development. Yes.
445
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:16.559
What happened was there was a lot
of UFO sightings happening in New South Wales,
446
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:22.760
in central New South Wales and around
Kunebara Brand and Bill Chalker was investigating
447
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:27.960
them all and he went and visited
a lot of people that were spoke a
448
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.559
lot of witnesses and a lot of
them said, oh, you've got to
449
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:36.159
go and talk to this guy called
Lorrie. Right, this bloke called Lorrie
450
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:42.480
ran the local hardware store in Kunebara
Brand and several of them, so you've
451
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.119
got to go and talk to him. What he was doing was he would
452
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:49.880
talk to all of his customers and
ask any of them if they'd ever had
453
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:55.599
anything any unusual sightings or experiences of
any type, and when they when they
454
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:59.960
said down they had, he would
write it all down. He was documented
455
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:07.239
basically all the UFO sightings. And
the funny thing is that is a it's
456
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:13.239
a bit like Wickliffe Wells Brand,
like a very very hot Australian hot spot
457
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:16.440
for UFO sides UFO activity, and
there's a lot of telescopes up there.
458
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:21.559
You know that there's a lot of
telescopes in the area. Now, I
459
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:24.360
haven't actually been to Gooding a baron
brand myself, but there's a lot of
460
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:30.119
a lot of skywatching going on up
there, and a lot of stuff comes
461
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:34.599
from there, a lot of reports
come from there. So anyway, Bill
462
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:37.920
was out there talking to this people. He chased up this guy called Laurie.
463
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:43.639
His name was Laurie Rider. Now
he he got really up in arms
464
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:51.719
when John Howard tried to get everybody's
guns handed in, remember after the shooting
465
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:57.159
down in Tasmania, Yes, soum
around that time. Laurie was very upset
466
00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:00.000
because he was on the side of
all the farmers. All the farmers,
467
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:04.639
he said, needed to be able
to keep their guns because they need them
468
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:10.079
on the land, you know.
So so he's well known in the community
469
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:15.119
up there for that sort of stuff. I'm making a stand against the government
470
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:22.360
and that's fair enough, I guess. But he claimed that he documented all
471
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:27.679
these ufocuses and he said the most
interesting one of the lot was when his
472
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:32.639
farmer from South Australia came in.
He'd moved up there and he came into
473
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:38.559
the shop one day and so Laurie
asked the farmer. We never got the
474
00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:43.960
guy's name, by the way,
but Laurie asked his farmer, you know,
475
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.920
what's the strangest thing that you've ever
seen? And the farmer said,
476
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:52.199
well, there was there was a
guy. He said, I was.
477
00:39:53.360 --> 00:40:00.239
I was harvesting lucern, which they
used for crop feed down in South Australia
478
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:05.559
on the river in a sort of
area somewhere around between say Keith and murray
479
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:10.079
Bridge, somewhere down that way.
And he said it was farming, and
480
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.480
there was this very unusual noise that
started up, and he thought there was
481
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:20.320
something wrong with his equipments, farm
equipment, so he uncoupled it because all
482
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:23.840
runs off the tractor's motor, but
that you can uncouple the equipment, which
483
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:28.079
he did, and he went to
the back to see what's gone wrong,
484
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:34.079
maybe a bearing or something, but
the noise continued. The equipment was stationary
485
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:37.119
and not moving, but he was
still getting the noise. So he's trying
486
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:42.519
to figure out, hang on,
what's this song hearing And then he looked
487
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:49.320
up and then he saw this large
flying discs is hovering above him, and
488
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:55.880
he checked it out very closely,
because, as as Laurie described, a
489
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.320
lot of these farmers actually are pilots. They do a lot of crop dusting
490
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:06.280
on their properties. So they fly
their own little planes around and they they
491
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:09.599
do their own crop dusting. It's
part of being a farmer, I guess.
492
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:16.159
And they have airstrips at the end
of their property. And so he
493
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:25.760
expected this object to have to maintain
a virtual a certain amount of speed to
494
00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:30.320
stay airborne. He said, this
wasn't going fast enough. He thought it
495
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:34.000
was going to drop. So he
ran. He ran, He left his
496
00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:37.159
track and just ran away to get
clear of this big round object. It's
497
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.719
just in case it fell down,
because he couldn't see any reason for it
498
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:45.800
to be supported. And he said
there was. It had like an outer
499
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:52.760
band, two outer bands that were
counter rotational on the outer each of this
500
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.719
thing. And he said, but
one band was going very quickly, the
501
00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:00.000
other one was not going very fast
at all. And they were a little
502
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.159
spurts of flame coming out of one
end of this object. He thought this,
503
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:07.360
and it was making horrible screeching noise. They thought, there's something wrong
504
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:13.760
with his thing. And so that's
why he ran away. But then from
505
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:17.360
when he got away from it and
looked back, then he said he could
506
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:21.039
see that it had a dome on
top, so it was a round object
507
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:23.840
from underneath, but had a dome
on top. And he said it looked
508
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:29.800
like it had an archway door like
a church store on the side of the
509
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:34.400
dome. He said there were no
handles and no windows or anything. And
510
00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:39.159
then he said as it sort of
rotated as it hovered there, something came
511
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:45.119
into view and he said it was
an Assessna aircraft was kind of stuck or
512
00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:50.960
attached to the side of this object, just sitting there. That's an amazing
513
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:59.920
and he couldn't work it out.
He said that there were no chains or
514
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.599
hopes or anything holding it up,
but there was oil running down. He
515
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:09.159
thought there was oil running down the
outside of the cessna um And I when
516
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:13.000
I imagine it, you know,
this description, it was a very clear
517
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:16.360
description. It reminds me of,
you know, like saying, how insects
518
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:22.199
get stuck to the front of a
car or a truck, you know,
519
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.639
or all over the bumper, you
know, get things stuck on it.
520
00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:30.920
It just seems to me to be
something like that. They've they've come together,
521
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:35.960
there's been an aerial collision. Now
if this and he said there was
522
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:39.000
a registration number on the wing,
he could read the registration number of the
523
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:45.480
plane on the wing. And he's
read that and he's written it down.
524
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:50.559
He's scratched it into the tractor's paint
work with a nail, so he wouldn't
525
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:53.320
forget. He didn't have a pen
and paper on him, being a farmer.
526
00:43:55.039 --> 00:44:00.159
Nail scratched it into the tractor.
There's got to be a tractor out
527
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:06.880
there somewhere with vhds J scratch didn't
do it. I'd love to find it,
528
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:08.840
but we don't know a farmer's name. We don't know his name,
529
00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:15.320
so we can't find it. But
you did. You did make some significant
530
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:19.639
attempts to try though, didn't you. Look. Yeah, I just about
531
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:24.440
went broke making funk calls talking to
farmers in the New South Wales area.
532
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:28.880
I managed to find the name of
a guy. A number of people that
533
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:30.840
I spoke to. I was asking
him, do you know, do you
534
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:36.639
remember somebody who moved here from South
Australia And they all come up with this
535
00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:38.159
same guy's name. And I tracked
him down and I got his number.
536
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.360
I phoned him and spoke to him, and he didn't know anything about what
537
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:46.159
I must have sound like a real
lunatic to him, you know. And
538
00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:55.239
he had an unusual name. He
was known as Church First Church Church Mason
539
00:44:55.519 --> 00:45:00.800
was his name. Yeah, and
I think he's still alive anyway. Look,
540
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:06.960
I've I made a model to try
to illustrate what that would have looked
541
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.320
like for the farmer, And it's
in the book. And here's this photo
542
00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:15.519
that I made. Oh, yes, you can see that. Yeah,
543
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:21.639
the plane. Could you see that, the planet stuck with the side hang
544
00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:25.159
on, Yes, like that,
it's just perfect there. Yeah, and
545
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:30.480
you can see the ground is down
there with the trees are Yeah, there's
546
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:34.519
this thing up above and there's a
plane stuck to it and you can read
547
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:37.840
the registration number on the wing.
Yeah. That's just a little model that
548
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:44.000
I I mocked that up, just
just a will straight what I imagined when
549
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:47.440
I was hearing the tape this farmer
telling the story. That that's how how
550
00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:52.159
it appeared to me in my mind. And that could be completely wrong for
551
00:45:52.280 --> 00:46:00.119
that, but it's it's what what
the guy described. This Fred disappeared was
552
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:04.480
all it was. It was very
close it was the Sunday morning, fredchisoned
553
00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:07.119
on the Saturday, Saturday evening.
Yeah, this was on the Sunday morning,
554
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:13.000
but in Adelaide. Yeah yeah,
so right place, right time.
555
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:20.519
So well that's sort of there could
have been anywhere in Australia, I guess.
556
00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.079
But it was the next day,
the next morning, and the farmer
557
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:29.880
said that he watched the thing fly
away and it was still making screeching noise
558
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:32.719
as it flew away. Now,
I also got I wrote about that and
559
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:37.679
put it in the Uthologists magazine,
and I've got various people emailed me who'd
560
00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:42.800
read the magazine article and contacted me
to tell me that they had similar stories.
561
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:49.559
One was a guy who's a was
a cameraman working for Channel two in
562
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:52.480
Adelaide. He said, when he
was five or six years old, he
563
00:46:52.519 --> 00:46:55.280
and his brother got woken up in
the early hours of the morning. And
564
00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:00.400
it was nineteen seventy eight eight,
so when he was five sea and they
565
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:05.079
woke up, so he had a
funny rumbling noise and they looked out the
566
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:08.559
window and there was this big circular
object hovering over their house and the house
567
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:12.960
across the road at the same time. It was big and it woke them
568
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:15.960
up, but they didn't see an
aeroplane stuck to the side of it.
569
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:19.400
But it was around the same time
and this thing was making a funny noise
570
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:24.519
and it woke them up. Channel
seven Comeraman So I wrote about that in
571
00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:30.920
the book too. That's the excellent
So we've got some So the whole farmer
572
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:37.880
angle was was sort of you know, it really sort of adds another strange
573
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:44.159
to mention to to what potentially happened
if Fred um, So, what are
574
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:47.159
your thoughts, what do you think
happened to him? What's your take on
575
00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:52.159
it? Look, the funny thing
is when it comes to the US subject,
576
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:59.320
anything's possible and nothing's too strange or
too bizarre. You know, you
577
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:05.480
hear you've heard about alien abductions and
things like that, and they're doing genetic
578
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:09.199
experiments on humans and all this sort
of stuff. All of that's pretty weird
579
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:15.079
too. There's nothing that's that strange. It couldn't be true. But for
580
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:19.280
some people. When Bill first heard
this story and had he was recording,
581
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:24.360
I've got the tape recording of the
the guy from Colne Barbrand telling the story
582
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:30.320
that what the farmer told him.
We have that on tape. It's a
583
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:36.800
fairly good recording and I've transcribed that
tape and that's in the book here as
584
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:42.440
well, so you can read what
Laurie said. He described his band alternate,
585
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.599
these bands spinning around, and how
the thing, how he scratched it
586
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:52.400
with the tractor with the bar reggio
number. So it's nothing that bizarre,
587
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:57.639
really, I mean, it's it
sort of explains why there was no wreckage
588
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:01.280
found if there was an aerial collision. And on the documentary that we did
589
00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:08.159
with the Science Channel, when when
Dick Haynes played the tape of that seventeen
590
00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:13.360
seconds of that metallic noise and he
was saying that could be the sound of
591
00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:17.960
these two objects coming together. When
Bill saw that, that reminded him of
592
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:22.400
this farmer saying that he saw the
sessions stuck to the side of the thing.
593
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.480
It all seemed to make sense.
Now to some people that doesn't make
594
00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:31.880
any sense, but it's no less
sensical than any other UFA's story. Well,
595
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:36.360
you know, the facts are yeah, exactly one hundred percent, and
596
00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:37.800
the fact that you know he was
circul he was he was traveling at four
597
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.519
and a half thousand feet and if
he had he would have broken up in
598
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:45.039
the water, and they've searched for
him very quickly in the weeks afterwards as
599
00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:49.440
well, um with pc orians and
stuff. So you would have thought they
600
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:54.159
would have found some wreckage if he
ended up into Bass Strait. So you
601
00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:58.760
know, given that metallic sound and
this other story that's come about, it's
602
00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:05.480
it's certainly at another dimension to it. Yeah. Yeah, So we're sort
603
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:12.679
of leaping forwards step by step,
very small baby steps, though it's not
604
00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:17.000
really the leap. We're going forward
very slowly because it's very hard. Hopefully
605
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:22.280
this book might help to cement the
idea in people's minds that there could have
606
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:28.079
been an aerial collision. Fred probably
didn't end up in the sea. The
607
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:31.000
plane probably did not disappear in the
sea. We've had people that tell us
608
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:36.400
that divers have found aircraft at the
bottom of the sea near capey Way,
609
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:42.320
and that they had the same registration
number as Fred's plane. But you've been
610
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:47.599
people have been able to fake photos
in laboratories for a hundred years. Photography
611
00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:53.400
has been within a hundred years.
I've never seen those photographs that were taken
612
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:59.480
by those divers. They were apparently
published, but I've never seen them and
613
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:02.679
the story abot. Some divers found
some planes under the sea, and one
614
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:07.320
of them was Fred's plane and the
door was Ajar. There was no human
615
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:12.719
remains in the plane. M But
I've never seen those photos. There's no
616
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:15.960
evidence, there is no evidence that
the plane was ever found at the bottom
617
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:20.039
of the sea. No, there
is no evidence. Only the cowling that
618
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:23.360
was that was washed up on Flinder's
Island many years later, like you know,
619
00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:27.960
and that's five years later, five
years later, and it was not
620
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:31.559
not conclusively proven to be a part
of his plane or that was from the
621
00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:37.119
same it was the same type of
plane. The serial number didn't didn't match.
622
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:42.280
It was found only a couple of
hundred meters from the runway of that
623
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:46.880
of that of that island. And
it is a part that's known to disappear
624
00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:52.360
m every now, and they're on
the planes they when they serviced to plane,
625
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:54.559
their photo of the air that air
intakes disappeared. It's only held in
626
00:51:54.800 --> 00:52:00.360
it by a couple of rivets.
And it's it's not a crucial part of
627
00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:06.159
the airplane. It comes to drift
and rattles off and flies away and gets
628
00:52:06.199 --> 00:52:09.199
lost. The plane can still fly
and operate normally. Yeah, it's not
629
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:13.760
going to bring it out of the
sky. It's like losing a rear vision
630
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:15.800
mirror or something. You can still
drive your car. You're not going to
631
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:21.320
crash because you lost your rear vision
mirror. It's something like that. It's
632
00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:25.079
akin to that. It's not that
important. But but in the match,
633
00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:30.599
yeah, the numbers, the register
or the serial number of the parts did
634
00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:36.880
not match that of the missing aircraft. So and oh the other thing is
635
00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:42.519
what's convenient about it. It was
found a m Flinders Island, near the
636
00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:47.639
airport on Flinders Island and where regishippied
was on near King Island, heading towards
637
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:52.280
King Island. I'll just bring that
map back up there. So, yeah,
638
00:52:52.360 --> 00:52:57.440
King Islands to the right. Yeah, Flinders is on the right there.
639
00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:01.960
Now there's about a three hundred kilometer
gap between those islands. I guess
640
00:53:02.039 --> 00:53:07.599
which direction the water current flows the
other way? Yeah, so we would
641
00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:13.400
have to flow against the current for
five years, for four or five years
642
00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:17.440
against the current to get to Flinder's
Island if it came from where Fred was.
643
00:53:19.159 --> 00:53:22.840
Yes, that's really that's a bit
of a stretch. You know,
644
00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:28.719
I personally believe that's a stretch as
well. Um, and hopefully, you
645
00:53:28.760 --> 00:53:32.400
know, perhaps with the release of
this of the new book, maybe some
646
00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:37.280
new information might come to light as
well. Well. I would like to
647
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:40.360
know who the farmer was. Somebody
must know who the farmer was. He
648
00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:45.400
must have spoken to somebody about it, because it's that ridicule factor, you
649
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:49.000
see. People don't they'll say,
oh, look, I saw you a
650
00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:52.280
foe. I'll tell you all about
it, but you can't use my name.
651
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:55.920
Don't use my name because that that
happened, You know that Kibble,
652
00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:00.880
You know that James Kibble. Yes, that was his attitude for years.
653
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:06.519
He let them have his photo.
He reported what he saw and that he
654
00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:09.960
took the photo. That's a very
interesting object in that photo that he took
655
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:15.239
that side on. Yeah, George
told about the ball one photo that was
656
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:21.239
taken on April nineteen sixty six.
Yeah, just a few days before Westall
657
00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:25.199
happened. Yea, and only it's
like less than twenty k's from Westall.
658
00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:32.440
Right, And you can't deny after
all these years that there must be some
659
00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:37.679
connection between the two. Oh,
you know, there must be some connection,
660
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:43.280
no question. But Kibble did not
have his name associated with that photo
661
00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:47.199
for about thirty or forty years.
It was only in the last few years
662
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:51.519
that he owned up that it was
him and he took the photo. And
663
00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:55.519
that's because of this ridicule thing.
Now now that he's retired. You know,
664
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:59.440
he didn't have the he didn't think
it was going to be any harm
665
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:01.920
done having his name associated with it. But you know, he took that
666
00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:06.719
photo and he nearly broke his nose
with the camera when he pulled it up
667
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:12.519
quickly to his face to take the
shot. Camera, he nearly he banged
668
00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:15.360
himself of the nose with the camera. He nearly broke Oh wow, Well,
669
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:22.679
we're actually lucky to get that incredible
photo. We're actually out of time.
670
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:25.400
We've come to the end of the
episode, which is we could talk
671
00:55:25.400 --> 00:55:29.360
for another two hours about this,
so I just want to bring the backup.
672
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:34.440
So this is George's book, Nothing
on Radar, The Valentiche Mystery,
673
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:38.760
available on Amazon now, so be
sure to get on and an audio copy.
674
00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:44.119
And hopefully we've given you a nice
little teaser about the contents. And
675
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:49.800
George, thank you so much for
joining me tonight on this episode. And
676
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:52.599
you know, we look forward to
seeing I'm record you're reading the book,
677
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:57.800
and I'm sure other people are going
to really look forward to getting an updated,
678
00:55:58.119 --> 00:56:01.320
um, you know, a version
of what's happened in you know,
679
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:06.880
into the twenty first century. So
thank you very much for joining me tonight.
680
00:56:07.159 --> 00:56:12.039
It's been it's been my pleasure,
Ben. It's always nice talking to
681
00:56:12.039 --> 00:56:15.440
you. And yeah, I hope
everybody don't just buy one copy of the
682
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:22.599
book by two give one to your
best friend. Yeah idea, that's a
683
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:25.320
that's a wonderful idea. So and
I'll get George and one again in the
684
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:29.679
future too, so we can we
can do another follow up. But thanks
685
00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:31.599
again, George, good on you, Ben. Thanks very much for having
686
00:56:31.639 --> 00:57:00.960
me over, Bro,