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Hey guys, welcome to the No Grimbo podcast, where we spill the tea on being a founder and there's no one more of a founder than Maverick. He is in the short space of time I know him, has done like everything under the sun. Joined multiple startups, had a brief stint in America, come back.
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Yeah, he is really, really, really funny. So when did your love of entrepreneurship begin? Because you clearly, you clearly love this grind. I love the game. I do love the game. I love the game. I think it probably started genuinely like when I was incredibly young. So I always joke,
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I'm a third generation gambler and what I mean by that is my granddad used to own a betting shop. So he used to like sell for example, you know, if you want to bet on a horse, this horse is three to one, this horse is two to one ever. And my dad is now in his what, I think he's 56-ish, 56, 57.
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and just loving our share price. But yeah, he's in his mid fifties and he has for the past 40 years had a gambling addiction. And so like very often he would go, you know, even nowadays he is a pharmacist and goes nine to five in the pharmacy and then,
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you know, five to midnight goes and gambles. And like, I mean, it's not deep. We joke about it in the family. But yeah, we take the mic. But no, the reality is, I suppose when you probably grow up ever since I was like 12, I was always like, what's he doing? Why is he wasting his money on things that he can't control? And so for me, it was all about, okay, well, I have to bet on every single thing that I can control. So that's something that I had like quite...
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deeply thought about from a very young age, like what can I control? I started like watching loads of YouTube about startups and obviously YC is like the big thing. When you like type in startups, YC probably comes up as the first thing. And so I was like, okay, I know what I need to do. I need to call DM out all the YC startups in London and ask them for a job. And I did that. And then this one, Chula was like,
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Hey, like, come in for a couple days trial. I went in. You just called DM'd him? Called him out. Called him out. I called him out literally every single while he started up in London. And one got back in and that was cool. And they were like, yeah, we're on the rocket ship trajectory, this whole shebang, we're hiring loads. Yada, yada, yada.
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Two months later, like pretty much everyone on the sales team was gone. Everyone in the six months tenure was gone and was like pretty hectic. Even though they were telling us like internally, yeah, this is gonna be the best company ever. We're gonna be the fastest company to 100 million AR, whatever, the whole, the whole retorite, the whole shebang.
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obviously didn't happen, loads of people got laid off I'm like still like friends with the founders actually I you know don't burn bridges especially where like it's true yeah you shouldn't uh or in some cases you can and maybe I'll tell you about when I have in a bit yeah this is like a week before we met and I was like okay well like I actually feel like quite confident in selling now and I feel and I'd been like
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you know, doing quite a bit of content for them as well. And even though it had only been a short period of time, I was like, I felt quite confident. I went for dinner at Honest Burger, like two days, December 2nd got laid off, December 4th, go December 4th, 2024, go for dinner with my, one of my old friends, who I now like, he's in the bit, like discarded to the graveyard. Old best friend from uni. And-
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We go to an honest burger and he's, I'm like very like, optimistic, I'm like, obviously it's two days after, 48 hours after I've been laid off. I've just moved to London, like by myself. I'm also not rich, like personally, I'm not wealthy as a guy. And I'm like, you know, you know, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna start a sales and marketing agency. I'm gonna make it happen. I'm trying to put on a brave face here. Yeah, I remember you told me about that idea, yeah.
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And he's like, no, don't do it. Terrible idea. You don't know what to do. You don't know how to start a company. And I'm like, who are you to tell me what to do and what not to do? And it just like, I think also when you go, particularly in Cambridge, for example, there's a hierarchy as to who's smart and who's not smart. And I wasn't that academically good at Cambridge. And he was one of the top firsts. And you probably, you know,
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I wasn't like stereotypically like smart, let's say. And so anyway, I was like, right, done. And I was like, I'm focused now. This guy's, and actually this comes onto like motivation as well, it's like, I'm like so glad he pissed me off. I'm so glad he annoyed me because like every time I'm like, you can't do something. I'm like, watch me, I'm like, watch me. Anyway, December, get no pines. January, I'm like,
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start of january get no clients by the end of january i've got a client february got three clients it's actually it's actually going okay and how are you getting these clients by the way uh a lot of cold email a lot of linkedin dm um i'm actually getting clients and we're moving faster and i'm making linkedin content to go faster
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And in March, I make a LinkedIn video, March, 2025, like a 10 minute video of me vibe coding on Lovable. Yes. Chas, the founder of Model ML, who is the GOAT. He has changed my life.
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He messages me off the back of all of these videos that I post, it's, hey, like we're hiring right now. We just raised like a $20 million round. And this guy is a, it's his third YC company and has sold his previous two for a good amount of money. A good amount of money. And so I'm like, You're back again.
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And he's back again and now he's just raised over 100 million for Model ML, which is where I was at. And he's crashing it. And I owe everything to him. And so I had these three clients and he's like, hey, like, I want you to join. I've seen your content, like, I think it's, you know, I think it's cool. And I think you can be impactful here.
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I dropped my three clients and I started working for Chaz the next day. And that was, changed my life. Chaz is, you know,
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machine in terms of like, he'll text you at, you know, Sunday, 7 a.m., Friday, 10 p.m. Like he doesn't care what day or time it is. He'll be like, hey, like, we got to focus on this. And he is just like, relentless machine. Like he deserves all the success and more. And I worked there for six months and I was the youngest person on the team. So I was 24 and because it's selling AI for investment banks and private equity firms, you know, a lot of the team are like,
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probably like 10 inch years older than me plus minus. Former like Goldman, JP Morgan bankers, which is awesome and you learn so much just by osmosis in those environments. But I did feel as though
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I was never going to be able to become like, for example, C-suite or a director in that place because I didn't have that finance experience. And so what that meant was that even though I was learning so much and loved working there, there's only so far that I could go because I didn't quote unquote, speak the language of finance.
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And so I got this DM from a company in SF called Pump, which was like, hey, you know, we're building a team in Europe. We want like we're looking for a head of Europe. You'll come to SF for three months and then you'll be the head of Europe for our company. And I saw that as move to SF for 90 days. If I love the company and I'm earning bank, great, we stay. If I don't, 90 days in SF.
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It's the worst that could happen. Plus, like, SF salaries are bigger than London salaries. I said, yeah, let's do it. So I took it, I get there, shoes off, your average age is like 21, everyone's like making memes the whole time, and I'm like,
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what have I and I bear in mind I've gone somewhere where like 10am meeting is 10am meeting you dress properly like standards are super high everyone's 10 years out of banking or private equity or consulting we've called that 5am here it's like oh yeah we just dropped out of Berkeley we wear sandals and it's like yeah you're probably smart but you don't have like the standards or the the know-how to actually build
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generational company just yeah by standards by standards i mean i wrote a long uh a long list when i resigned six weeks after joining but it included things like you know people uh missing meetings or turning up to meetings like eight minutes late um like for me 10 a.m is 10 a.m if you turn up at 10 08 like get out the door um you know it's just it's like you
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How you know writing emails punctually to clients or like responding to clients like In a timely manner. So I left after six weeks. I had a an Esther so I could stay for 90 days And I started just hacking on a bunch of things with a bunch of different people in like SF hacker houses and candidly like nothing came to fruition and I
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I didn't have much money in the bank, not much at all. But I said to myself, like, this is it. It's now or never. It's never been easier to code, you know, with code code. Like, I'm not like I didn't study like CS, but I can use, you know, code code and all, you know, a bunch of other tools and I can build things that people will pay for. And so I decided instead of like getting another job or like do whatever, I'm like,
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This is the best time ever. I'm gonna go to Vietnam. I have a small amount of money, but I'm gonna go. I booked a one-way ticket to Vietnam and I started hacking. And while I was in Vietnam, or actually just a week before I flew to Vietnam,
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I saw a tweet from our investor called Gus at BoothVC. And he was like, I want to fund founders before the end of the year. So I emailed him off the back of that tweet. I didn't respond to the tweet because my Twitter account has like 30 followers. And I'm like, I'm not gonna tweet him because he's gonna be like, this guy's a bot. He has 30 followers. So I emailed him and I emailed the link to my LinkedIn, which has like eight or 9K, which is, you know, it's not like loads, but it's like more than 30 followers. And,
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He's like, yeah, sure, let's chat, let's chat next week. So I was in Vietnam and we had this call and it was 3.55 a.m. in Vietnam. Remember looking at my phone at like 3.51 when I got out of bed and I'm like, I look probably like death. And I was like, what am I doing? December the 4th, 2025. Remember what happened the year before, December 4th, 2024, Honest Burgers. Think of honesty, think of saying the truth to yourself.
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Semple 4, 2025, exactly one year later, Gus says to me, this is really cool, what you feel, which is Maverick Intelligence, and we'll come on to it in a bit.
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and we like to invest and yeah it was four months to go and we're now live with multiple customers and products getting better day by day so I realised that's a long story but hopefully that's helpful that is helpful for context and I even want to go back to you know sometimes being an entrepreneur and other things you'll have people who
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sometimes they don't think they're hurting you but because their their mind is so limited in what they think is possible they'll tell others that hey you can't do it just what type of a friend tells someone you know don't go for something yeah i mean it's it's really funny because i think it's you know how do i respond to that yeah i agree um and i think when you got
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told like you can't do something so much you either believe it or you have to prove them wrong and i think there's no way between and for me it's like honestly like if you ask me why you know i think you know we've already come on to things like motivation in a bit but obviously i you know i'm motivated by making customers happy i'm motivated by um you know making money making a great business whatever
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You know what makes me so happy? The fact that they could never have believed that this would be real. Really? For sure. It makes me so happy. I love it. It's like vengeance, you know? Really? And that drives you? Oh yeah, big time. Like, it's like a revenge arc, you know? It's like, fuck you, you didn't believe me I could do this? Watch me, watch me. It's gonna be like a million times bigger than you could possibly believe.
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And I'm not going to stop until we get there. Really? And this is actually another thing, right? What also annoys me is that the guy was like, you don't know how to, you know, do business. Or you don't know how to build a tech company. Or you don't know how to build. And it's like, you've never seen me do it. How would you? So how do you know? It's like, oh, you studied languages. So you should be a translator or languages teacher or whatever. And it's like, well, you don't,
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know my abilities plus also i think this is just a general societal problem right it's like in the uk particularly it's like oh you studied biology you should be a biologist you studied xyz you should be this you study law you should be a lawyer it's like that's like such an archaic way of thinking nowadays i think nowadays
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There's no reason why anyone can't do like genuinely anything. It's true. It's true. It's true, especially with the tools available. Like, you know, like you're, you're building like a media agency and podcasting and you're doing a phenomenal job, by the way. You should all follow Amma. She's incredible. And...
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that, you know, and like, you know, if you look at, you studied chemistry undergrad, right? You studied chemistry. It's like, you can... To be fair, like you, there were people, even close friends that were like, you know, you don't have a proper job, you don't do this. It's like, I do what I love to do and I make money like doing it. Not to sound like conceit, but it's like, why should I not? You know, what do you mean this is not proper or... But then I was thinking, why does it affect me so much what they said?
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Someone, I was doing this work with, you know, the dynamic pricing thing. Yes, yes, yes. People were like, you know nothing about dynamic pricing. Who are you to do that? And why would anyone... And it's like, you know, you can learn. Like, you can spend time, you can learn. There's AI, you know, we're not this stuck. Like, people, you know, have one job and they think this is what you must do. You know how to do this. No, you can, you can reinvent yourself.
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Completely. And like, sorry. You're the king of review. You've done it alone. Yeah, no, this is, it's just true, right? It's like, you know, for example, my grandparents will also say, because they're, you know, my grandpa was a, still is actually a dentist and has been for like 60 years. He'll be like, you know, okay. Every, like few months, I'll be like, uh, you didn't study computer science. I'm like, uh, okay.
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you can learn. And I've spent a lot of time since graduating over the past three years, learning how to code and learning how to build, you know, software companies and software products. What are you building?
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Yeah, so we're building Maverick Intelligence. Maverick Intelligence can tell you exactly who's on your website. Plus, we can give you their names, emails, LinkedIn's, phone numbers. It's pretty cool. Plus, we can tell you who's clicking on your ads across Google, LinkedIn, Meta, YouTube, Reddit even, and email newsletters, even if they don't convert. So we like to say in a single sentence, Maverick Intelligence turns your anonymous website visitors into customers in a single click.
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couple things that come to mind. How is the data concerns around doing something like this? It's a great question. And it's one of the reasons why we're a company registered in the U.S. Our investors are in the U.S. and over 8 to 10 of our customers in the U.S. too. It's because in the U.K. and E.U. we have GDPR, which means we can tell you the companies who have been on your website, but we can't tell you the people. However, the U.S. are a lot more relaxed about that type of data. So your focus is America because of that. And yeah.
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Yeah, definitely. I think, I mean, a few reasons why America first is that the market's significantly bigger. Second is that the laws around it are a lot more efficient for us, let's say. And I think third is that in my experience, at least money in America just moves a lot faster and generally in bigger amounts too. So, for example, I've, you know, we started this company and we tried to get like,
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small amounts of money, let's say, out of European companies. And they were like, can you do it for less? Or can you, 10p, can you do it for 7p? In America, it's like, send the invoice, send the Stripe link. People sending money in the UK, everyone's a bit like tight, tight. Very. I think there's also a limited mindset a little bit there.
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Yeah, it's like, there's a lot, there's so much scepticism, I think. Whereas in the US, people are like, let's give it a go. Why not? I'll run it for a month. Let's see. And then they like it and then they run it for a year. And how did you actually like learn to sell? You know, what are the tools you're using? What techniques do you have? Anyone who's got a startup and they want to sell? Yeah, it's a good question. Actually, it's one of the things, one of my like,
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hot takes is when people post on LinkedIn being like, I just had this Claude agent, 47 step agent that sells. And I'm like, does it pick up the phone? Does it send a LinkedIn message? Does it email? If it doesn't do one of those three things, it doesn't sell. And maybe does like the preparation work before selling, doesn't sell. So that's like a big, you know, obviously, you know, I use AI, but
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I use AI I always see for like you know bits and you know I get my for example like lead list from AI and I will like what tools? Apollo's not bad actually shout out to my friends Orange Slice they're like a you know Clay we have Clay
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So they're like Apollo, but it's so much better. You can just prompt it and say, find me a list of XYZ people. So good. Is it called Clay? So it's called, well, the one we use is called Orange Slice. It's actually better than Clay. Clay is like, you know, Clay is big market wise. They have raised like a 3 billion valuation. Orange Slice is a bit smaller. They raised 5 million. They did YC like last year, but like we're like somewhat friends with them and we're actually building an inspiration inside of that platform as well right now, which is great.
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um i use we don't do that much cold email but i use instantly for cold email uh we for like email for linkedin inbox i use something called condo which is we heard of condo or condo is like you know superhuman yeah uh so condo like superhuman for linkedin mail uh it's pretty good to the point that i send like probably like 100 linkedin dms a day yeah one of my biggest pet hates is when people are like oh yeah we just we just opened the website and we got a million in revenue
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asking people shit most of the time, right? The reality is people don't like to admit that but you've got to hustle. So for example, you know, to get our first clients, I was like, you know, I sent a lot of LinkedIn DMs and everyone's like, oh, how do you optimize it? How do you? And I'm like, I just go for volume. I just send like,
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I'm probably like, I'll be like, okay, this is the message that I'm going to write for a week. And I just blast it. And I'm like, as much as I can. And then I keep going. And then I follow up like a week later. And then I follow up a week later. And we just keep going. So LinkedIn DMs has been huge for me. I don't do much cold emails because I know a lot of cold emails. People should get bombarded by cold email nowadays.
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cold calling I do like actually I think it's great I think if there's someone that you want to reach you can be like hey I'm Maverick I know that you manage paid media of this company through my research and that's exactly I wanted to speak to you
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okay tell me more do you have any cold calling or tactics but I do like what you said about just doing it I think we can focus on optimizing when it's like if you're not even started just don't even bother about optimizing yeah I don't this is something I learned in Model ML with Chad actually Chad's told me so he ran two consumer companies before this and he was like A-B testing before you get to like 10,000 users complete nonsense and a complete waste of time 10,000 users, 10,000 customers whatever it is mainly yeah
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because you just don't have the data set or the sample size, right? It's like, I don't know, let's say for example you're sending, I don't know, 100 DMs and you get like 10 responses, versus on like, I don't know, sequence A versus sequence B, you send 100 DMs and you get like 14 responses. There's not enough differentiation there, really.
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Brilliant. Okay. That's really, really useful. And you're not technical. So how have you gone about upskilling when it comes to your AI? Yeah, it's funny. It's funny you ask because, you know, it's a question I get a lot. And one of the things when people are like, you're non-technical, it's like...
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no one was technical before 2020. Like even technical people have had to get used to how code code operates or how cursor operates or how whatever AI tools operate. Like these are completely new tools. And so the reality is we've basically gone from like a blank slate in the past six months. And also like these tools are advancing at such rapid rate that
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Like if you, for example, leave the tools for six months and you come back, they're going to be like so much better. So, for example, how have I gone about upskilling? Well, I think the first thing is just to actually get into the tools and really be like, oh, like, shh.
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get it to do all the things that you do so for example like i don't know yesterday i was like hey like i need to make a slide deck and a memo here's all the data or actually i would need to in fact this is a great one i need to make case studies and make me a case study here double the point bang bang bang did end about five minutes um and it would have taken me hours
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On the coding side, I will be very honest. We do just split our duties to the point that Nick just does manage a lot of the code. But I would say in terms of like, you know, to answer the question, like how do you upscale? I think first it's like, sit next to someone who's technical if you can. So me, I'm quite lucky and obviously I'm trying as much as I can to learn and I need to, you know, I want to see it. And so sitting next to Nick, who knows it inside out, who like worked at Amazon and like dropped out of masters in AI,
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is the perfect person to sit next to because he'll be like, okay, here's how you, you know, install this. Here's what like bash means or whatever, like all these different types of things that I otherwise, I wouldn't have known or I'd have had to like, you know, put into chat and then chat my Talni. And it, you know, also like YouTube tutorials. I was for YouTube tutorials. What is your honest tink on AI agents? There's so much hype around that.
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Yeah, so, you know, I think they're fantastic. I think they're awesome. I think, you know, I've seen it, for example, with Maverick Intelligence, where, you know, running multiple AI agents all the time to gather the data that we get on people. So one great statistic about our company right now is that we actually identify more people than there are minutes in the day. We identify a person on our website or across our customer, our total pool of customers' websites every single 30 seconds.
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you know i think we're in like the what's we're identifying something like four or five thousand people a day um across our like across our whole customer base which is like really cool to see um and so we we do that by running you know multiple ai agents simultaneously so for example
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We are identifying who's on the site. We do that by deploying code on the backend of the customer's website. We then run AI agents to query these B2B identity graphs through exclusive partnerships with companies like Demandbase 5x5. And then once we do that, we can then enrich that data further through our like person level agent using person level enrichment tools via Appify.
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uh and then we use a bunch of secret sauce in there as well that i can't necessarily reveal but fundamentally like these ai agents go and they you know they identify who's on the site they identify who what that person's company is they identify what that person's uh who that person is the company
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uh then gather a bunch more data on them uh for example like what pages they visited on the site um whether they'd be like a good potential buyer or not um which we call like the hot leads feature and only then do we then send it to you and this is all taking place like um you know pretty much autonomously nice i love that so you really do believe like they're working whilst you sleep
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Oh, they are because we wake up and we see, you know, one of the first things I check is like, who's viewed our website? Yeah, when I, who's viewed our website and how have our customers performed overnight? You know, I want to make sure that, for example, and also because I, you know, like right now I'm in the UK, but I do transcend as much time as possible in the US. Which is where our customers are and our investor in the UK and the US as well. But yeah.
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You know, right now, for example, I'm in the UK. If I go to bed at midnight, that's like, what, 4 p.m. in SF. And then I want to wake up and I want to see what's happened in the afternoon SF for our customers.
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You have such an insatiable get things done attitude. Is there anything that people can do to get things done more like you? To get things done more? I think ask for what you want. I think I make it such a thing for me to like, I always ask people. I often don't get it as well. I often don't get it. But...
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ask for what you want even when you're not ready to so for example like our in like i think i might mention this before but like i got our investment because i saw a tweet from a guy called gus who like seemed like super well he is super smart he like has a phd from marvel and a postdoc from stanford or what as a partner at this firm called boost which like i've seen is like you know i've seen that pretty cool
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Um, and I emailed him, even though we literally had zero company and I'm like, Hey, I'm Maverick. This is Nick. We want to build it. We're like, we're, you know, we're raising. You aren't raising. We didn't have, we didn't have a company. Um, but I was like, okay, well, if we can get the meeting, then we can raise, uh, then we can like work out how we do this and whatever. So like, you know, and we had a few meetings when we, we got like quite a few meetings like that. And we basically like very transparent, like we didn't have a company. We were hacking on a bunch of things.
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but because we had these meetings, they pushed us towards it. So to answer your question, how do you get things done? It's like, give yourself, like, basically just get in front of people and then get them to expect something from you. So for example, like, I do this quite a lot and I think you have to do this to start a founder, right? It's like...
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oh i tried to do this let's now that we actually have like a fully functioning company but like for example to get our first and earliest users i would dm people being like hey we actually have this thing like can we set it up for you um and it wasn't built and it wasn't built um but because the meeting is scheduled for like five or seven or nine days it's like well if you give me five days we can put something in front of you in that time to wrap up what does the future look like for you and my work intelligence um
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Yeah, so what do we want? I just want to build an incredibly successful company. I want to, beyond like building a successful company, I want to actually help our customers build successful companies too. So to give you an example, we make sure we mandate when we sell to our customers that we have at least a weekly call, if not a daily call with our customers.
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Definitely, nice. Sometimes. It depends how many we've got and how many they want. But yeah, at least a weekly call where we say, how has the software been for you? How have you found it? How many leads have you brought in through this? And just this week, I've had three customers say to me, yeah, that we actually were able to get leads that we otherwise wouldn't have found through Maverick Intelligence. We've got meetings with them, and they're now in our pipeline. And so that's a good dollar amount value from them.
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And so when they say that to me, it's like everything else goes out the window. I'm like, okay, wow, like that makes me so happy. Yeah, brilliant. And one piece of advice for someone who is watching this and they're sitting on idea, are they still all started? Why haven't you started? No, serious. Like what else are you doing? Like you're thinking about what other people think? Fuck her. Do it. If you haven't started, like...
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You know, I think a lot of people think, what if this? What if that? Or I'm not ready yet. It's like, no one's ready. Like, do you think Zuckerberg was ready to run a company when he was 19 and he dropped out of Harvard? No, like he'd never built a company before, but he built great software and he realized that by moving forward, he would figure it out. And OK, actually, no, no, no. Let me give you some even better advice. Find the...
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biggest, baddest, most successful, coolest person in your city or even not your city. And they could be someone that you admire. It could be, I don't know, a sports person. It could be a founder. It could be an investor. It could be anyone that like you've seen online and you're like, wow, that person's super cool. And do everything that you can to work for them.
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For me, like working with Chaz, I say this all the time, it sounds like really cringe. I think I actually sent him the first day I joined. I was like, you know, I'd have worked for you even if you didn't pay me. Find someone who you would literally like just die to be in their presence and then get in their presence.
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And then you were gonna learn so, so much. And this is actually why I'm like, maybe one of the things I like to speak about is how I, you know, if you ask for a hot take, I think graduate schemes aren't the best training for young people. And I think the reason why I think that is because it's very cohort based.
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And again, it's this whole like UK Britishism, like tall poppy syndrome, like everyone in a similar way to how like in the UK, everyone graduates after three or four years. In the US, it's like some people graduate after two years. A lot of people drop out. No one in the UK really drops out. It's not a thing. And this, you know, even as you said, the tall poppy syndrome, like in Colbert, there's only a few positions, isn't there, to get. So you have, you are competing, whereas in entrepreneurship...
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Exactly. And like in graduate schemes, it's like, well, after two years, then you get a promotion from analyst to senior analyst. And then after you've done the graduate scheme, then you go somewhere else. And it's very like it can make you feel like you're progressing. But actually, you're probably in fact not probably. I'm going to go and say that you're almost certainly stagnating because you're somewhat you're somewhat constrained by the by the people and the beliefs around you. Yeah.
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For me, ultimately, what's changed my life is being around people who just live limitlessly. Love that. And with that, we'll air it there. Thank you so much, Lorraine. Great to catch up. Likewise. Well, look, thanks so much for having me. It's been surreal. It's been so much fun. You're a legend.
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Hey guys, welcome to the No Grimbo podcast, where we spill the tea on being a founder and there's no one more of a founder than Maverick. He is in the short space of time I know him, has done like everything under the sun. Joined multiple startups, had a brief stint in America, come back.
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Yeah, he is really, really, really funny. So when did your love of entrepreneurship begin? Because you clearly, you clearly love this grind. I love the game. I do love the game. I love the game. I think it probably started genuinely like when I was incredibly young. So I always joke,
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I'm a third generation gambler and what I mean by that is my granddad used to own a betting shop. So he used to like sell for example, you know, if you want to bet on a horse, this horse is three to one, this horse is two to one ever. And my dad is now in his what, I think he's 56-ish, 56, 57.
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and just loving our share price. But yeah, he's in his mid fifties and he has for the past 40 years had a gambling addiction. And so like very often he would go, you know, even nowadays he is a pharmacist and goes nine to five in the pharmacy and then,
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you know, five to midnight goes and gambles. And like, I mean, it's not deep. We joke about it in the family. But yeah, we take the mic. But no, the reality is, I suppose when you probably grow up ever since I was like 12, I was always like, what's he doing? Why is he wasting his money on things that he can't control? And so for me, it was all about, okay, well, I have to bet on every single thing that I can control. So that's something that I had like quite...
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deeply thought about from a very young age, like what can I control? I started like watching loads of YouTube about startups and obviously YC is like the big thing. When you like type in startups, YC probably comes up as the first thing. And so I was like, okay, I know what I need to do. I need to call DM out all the YC startups in London and ask them for a job. And I did that. And then this one, Chula was like,
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Hey, like, come in for a couple days trial. I went in. You just called DM'd him? Called him out. Called him out. I called him out literally every single while he started up in London. And one got back in and that was cool. And they were like, yeah, we're on the rocket ship trajectory, this whole shebang, we're hiring loads. Yada, yada, yada.
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Two months later, like pretty much everyone on the sales team was gone. Everyone in the six months tenure was gone and was like pretty hectic. Even though they were telling us like internally, yeah, this is gonna be the best company ever. We're gonna be the fastest company to 100 million AR, whatever, the whole, the whole retorite, the whole shebang.
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obviously didn't happen, loads of people got laid off I'm like still like friends with the founders actually I you know don't burn bridges especially where like it's true yeah you shouldn't uh or in some cases you can and maybe I'll tell you about when I have in a bit yeah this is like a week before we met and I was like okay well like I actually feel like quite confident in selling now and I feel and I'd been like
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you know, doing quite a bit of content for them as well. And even though it had only been a short period of time, I was like, I felt quite confident. I went for dinner at Honest Burger, like two days, December 2nd got laid off, December 4th, go December 4th, 2024, go for dinner with my, one of my old friends, who I now like, he's in the bit, like discarded to the graveyard. Old best friend from uni. And-
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We go to an honest burger and he's, I'm like very like, optimistic, I'm like, obviously it's two days after, 48 hours after I've been laid off. I've just moved to London, like by myself. I'm also not rich, like personally, I'm not wealthy as a guy. And I'm like, you know, you know, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna start a sales and marketing agency. I'm gonna make it happen. I'm trying to put on a brave face here. Yeah, I remember you told me about that idea, yeah.
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And he's like, no, don't do it. Terrible idea. You don't know what to do. You don't know how to start a company. And I'm like, who are you to tell me what to do and what not to do? And it just like, I think also when you go, particularly in Cambridge, for example, there's a hierarchy as to who's smart and who's not smart. And I wasn't that academically good at Cambridge. And he was one of the top firsts. And you probably, you know,
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I wasn't like stereotypically like smart, let's say. And so anyway, I was like, right, done. And I was like, I'm focused now. This guy's, and actually this comes onto like motivation as well, it's like, I'm like so glad he pissed me off. I'm so glad he annoyed me because like every time I'm like, you can't do something. I'm like, watch me, I'm like, watch me. Anyway, December, get no pines. January, I'm like,
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start of january get no clients by the end of january i've got a client february got three clients it's actually it's actually going okay and how are you getting these clients by the way uh a lot of cold email a lot of linkedin dm um i'm actually getting clients and we're moving faster and i'm making linkedin content to go faster
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And in March, I make a LinkedIn video, March, 2025, like a 10 minute video of me vibe coding on Lovable. Yes. Chas, the founder of Model ML, who is the GOAT. He has changed my life.
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He messages me off the back of all of these videos that I post, it's, hey, like we're hiring right now. We just raised like a $20 million round. And this guy is a, it's his third YC company and has sold his previous two for a good amount of money. A good amount of money. And so I'm like, You're back again.
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And he's back again and now he's just raised over 100 million for Model ML, which is where I was at. And he's crashing it. And I owe everything to him. And so I had these three clients and he's like, hey, like, I want you to join. I've seen your content, like, I think it's, you know, I think it's cool. And I think you can be impactful here.
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I dropped my three clients and I started working for Chaz the next day. And that was, changed my life. Chaz is, you know,
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machine in terms of like, he'll text you at, you know, Sunday, 7 a.m., Friday, 10 p.m. Like he doesn't care what day or time it is. He'll be like, hey, like, we got to focus on this. And he is just like, relentless machine. Like he deserves all the success and more. And I worked there for six months and I was the youngest person on the team. So I was 24 and because it's selling AI for investment banks and private equity firms, you know, a lot of the team are like,
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probably like 10 inch years older than me plus minus. Former like Goldman, JP Morgan bankers, which is awesome and you learn so much just by osmosis in those environments. But I did feel as though
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I was never going to be able to become like, for example, C-suite or a director in that place because I didn't have that finance experience. And so what that meant was that even though I was learning so much and loved working there, there's only so far that I could go because I didn't quote unquote, speak the language of finance.
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And so I got this DM from a company in SF called Pump, which was like, hey, you know, we're building a team in Europe. We want like we're looking for a head of Europe. You'll come to SF for three months and then you'll be the head of Europe for our company. And I saw that as move to SF for 90 days. If I love the company and I'm earning bank, great, we stay. If I don't, 90 days in SF.
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It's the worst that could happen. Plus, like, SF salaries are bigger than London salaries. I said, yeah, let's do it. So I took it, I get there, shoes off, your average age is like 21, everyone's like making memes the whole time, and I'm like,
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what have I and I bear in mind I've gone somewhere where like 10am meeting is 10am meeting you dress properly like standards are super high everyone's 10 years out of banking or private equity or consulting we've called that 5am here it's like oh yeah we just dropped out of Berkeley we wear sandals and it's like yeah you're probably smart but you don't have like the standards or the the know-how to actually build
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generational company just yeah by standards by standards i mean i wrote a long uh a long list when i resigned six weeks after joining but it included things like you know people uh missing meetings or turning up to meetings like eight minutes late um like for me 10 a.m is 10 a.m if you turn up at 10 08 like get out the door um you know it's just it's like you
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How you know writing emails punctually to clients or like responding to clients like In a timely manner. So I left after six weeks. I had a an Esther so I could stay for 90 days And I started just hacking on a bunch of things with a bunch of different people in like SF hacker houses and candidly like nothing came to fruition and I
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I didn't have much money in the bank, not much at all. But I said to myself, like, this is it. It's now or never. It's never been easier to code, you know, with code code. Like, I'm not like I didn't study like CS, but I can use, you know, code code and all, you know, a bunch of other tools and I can build things that people will pay for. And so I decided instead of like getting another job or like do whatever, I'm like,
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This is the best time ever. I'm gonna go to Vietnam. I have a small amount of money, but I'm gonna go. I booked a one-way ticket to Vietnam and I started hacking. And while I was in Vietnam, or actually just a week before I flew to Vietnam,
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I saw a tweet from our investor called Gus at BoothVC. And he was like, I want to fund founders before the end of the year. So I emailed him off the back of that tweet. I didn't respond to the tweet because my Twitter account has like 30 followers. And I'm like, I'm not gonna tweet him because he's gonna be like, this guy's a bot. He has 30 followers. So I emailed him and I emailed the link to my LinkedIn, which has like eight or 9K, which is, you know, it's not like loads, but it's like more than 30 followers. And,
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He's like, yeah, sure, let's chat, let's chat next week. So I was in Vietnam and we had this call and it was 3.55 a.m. in Vietnam. Remember looking at my phone at like 3.51 when I got out of bed and I'm like, I look probably like death. And I was like, what am I doing? December the 4th, 2025. Remember what happened the year before, December 4th, 2024, Honest Burgers. Think of honesty, think of saying the truth to yourself.
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Semple 4, 2025, exactly one year later, Gus says to me, this is really cool, what you feel, which is Maverick Intelligence, and we'll come on to it in a bit.
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and we like to invest and yeah it was four months to go and we're now live with multiple customers and products getting better day by day so I realised that's a long story but hopefully that's helpful that is helpful for context and I even want to go back to you know sometimes being an entrepreneur and other things you'll have people who
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sometimes they don't think they're hurting you but because their their mind is so limited in what they think is possible they'll tell others that hey you can't do it just what type of a friend tells someone you know don't go for something yeah i mean it's it's really funny because i think it's you know how do i respond to that yeah i agree um and i think when you got
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told like you can't do something so much you either believe it or you have to prove them wrong and i think there's no way between and for me it's like honestly like if you ask me why you know i think you know we've already come on to things like motivation in a bit but obviously i you know i'm motivated by making customers happy i'm motivated by um you know making money making a great business whatever
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You know what makes me so happy? The fact that they could never have believed that this would be real. Really? For sure. It makes me so happy. I love it. It's like vengeance, you know? Really? And that drives you? Oh yeah, big time. Like, it's like a revenge arc, you know? It's like, fuck you, you didn't believe me I could do this? Watch me, watch me. It's gonna be like a million times bigger than you could possibly believe.
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And I'm not going to stop until we get there. Really? And this is actually another thing, right? What also annoys me is that the guy was like, you don't know how to, you know, do business. Or you don't know how to build a tech company. Or you don't know how to build. And it's like, you've never seen me do it. How would you? So how do you know? It's like, oh, you studied languages. So you should be a translator or languages teacher or whatever. And it's like, well, you don't,
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know my abilities plus also i think this is just a general societal problem right it's like in the uk particularly it's like oh you studied biology you should be a biologist you studied xyz you should be this you study law you should be a lawyer it's like that's like such an archaic way of thinking nowadays i think nowadays
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There's no reason why anyone can't do like genuinely anything. It's true. It's true. It's true, especially with the tools available. Like, you know, like you're, you're building like a media agency and podcasting and you're doing a phenomenal job, by the way. You should all follow Amma. She's incredible. And...
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that, you know, and like, you know, if you look at, you studied chemistry undergrad, right? You studied chemistry. It's like, you can... To be fair, like you, there were people, even close friends that were like, you know, you don't have a proper job, you don't do this. It's like, I do what I love to do and I make money like doing it. Not to sound like conceit, but it's like, why should I not? You know, what do you mean this is not proper or... But then I was thinking, why does it affect me so much what they said?
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Someone, I was doing this work with, you know, the dynamic pricing thing. Yes, yes, yes. People were like, you know nothing about dynamic pricing. Who are you to do that? And why would anyone... And it's like, you know, you can learn. Like, you can spend time, you can learn. There's AI, you know, we're not this stuck. Like, people, you know, have one job and they think this is what you must do. You know how to do this. No, you can, you can reinvent yourself.
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Completely. And like, sorry. You're the king of review. You've done it alone. Yeah, no, this is, it's just true, right? It's like, you know, for example, my grandparents will also say, because they're, you know, my grandpa was a, still is actually a dentist and has been for like 60 years. He'll be like, you know, okay. Every, like few months, I'll be like, uh, you didn't study computer science. I'm like, uh, okay.
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you can learn. And I've spent a lot of time since graduating over the past three years, learning how to code and learning how to build, you know, software companies and software products. What are you building?
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Yeah, so we're building Maverick Intelligence. Maverick Intelligence can tell you exactly who's on your website. Plus, we can give you their names, emails, LinkedIn's, phone numbers. It's pretty cool. Plus, we can tell you who's clicking on your ads across Google, LinkedIn, Meta, YouTube, Reddit even, and email newsletters, even if they don't convert. So we like to say in a single sentence, Maverick Intelligence turns your anonymous website visitors into customers in a single click.
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couple things that come to mind. How is the data concerns around doing something like this? It's a great question. And it's one of the reasons why we're a company registered in the U.S. Our investors are in the U.S. and over 8 to 10 of our customers in the U.S. too. It's because in the U.K. and E.U. we have GDPR, which means we can tell you the companies who have been on your website, but we can't tell you the people. However, the U.S. are a lot more relaxed about that type of data. So your focus is America because of that. And yeah.
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Yeah, definitely. I think, I mean, a few reasons why America first is that the market's significantly bigger. Second is that the laws around it are a lot more efficient for us, let's say. And I think third is that in my experience, at least money in America just moves a lot faster and generally in bigger amounts too. So, for example, I've, you know, we started this company and we tried to get like,
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small amounts of money, let's say, out of European companies. And they were like, can you do it for less? Or can you, 10p, can you do it for 7p? In America, it's like, send the invoice, send the Stripe link. People sending money in the UK, everyone's a bit like tight, tight. Very. I think there's also a limited mindset a little bit there.
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Yeah, it's like, there's a lot, there's so much scepticism, I think. Whereas in the US, people are like, let's give it a go. Why not? I'll run it for a month. Let's see. And then they like it and then they run it for a year. And how did you actually like learn to sell? You know, what are the tools you're using? What techniques do you have? Anyone who's got a startup and they want to sell? Yeah, it's a good question. Actually, it's one of the things, one of my like,
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hot takes is when people post on LinkedIn being like, I just had this Claude agent, 47 step agent that sells. And I'm like, does it pick up the phone? Does it send a LinkedIn message? Does it email? If it doesn't do one of those three things, it doesn't sell. And maybe does like the preparation work before selling, doesn't sell. So that's like a big, you know, obviously, you know, I use AI, but
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I use AI I always see for like you know bits and you know I get my for example like lead list from AI and I will like what tools? Apollo's not bad actually shout out to my friends Orange Slice they're like a you know Clay we have Clay
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So they're like Apollo, but it's so much better. You can just prompt it and say, find me a list of XYZ people. So good. Is it called Clay? So it's called, well, the one we use is called Orange Slice. It's actually better than Clay. Clay is like, you know, Clay is big market wise. They have raised like a 3 billion valuation. Orange Slice is a bit smaller. They raised 5 million. They did YC like last year, but like we're like somewhat friends with them and we're actually building an inspiration inside of that platform as well right now, which is great.
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um i use we don't do that much cold email but i use instantly for cold email uh we for like email for linkedin inbox i use something called condo which is we heard of condo or condo is like you know superhuman yeah uh so condo like superhuman for linkedin mail uh it's pretty good to the point that i send like probably like 100 linkedin dms a day yeah one of my biggest pet hates is when people are like oh yeah we just we just opened the website and we got a million in revenue
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asking people shit most of the time, right? The reality is people don't like to admit that but you've got to hustle. So for example, you know, to get our first clients, I was like, you know, I sent a lot of LinkedIn DMs and everyone's like, oh, how do you optimize it? How do you? And I'm like, I just go for volume. I just send like,
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I'm probably like, I'll be like, okay, this is the message that I'm going to write for a week. And I just blast it. And I'm like, as much as I can. And then I keep going. And then I follow up like a week later. And then I follow up a week later. And we just keep going. So LinkedIn DMs has been huge for me. I don't do much cold emails because I know a lot of cold emails. People should get bombarded by cold email nowadays.
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cold calling I do like actually I think it's great I think if there's someone that you want to reach you can be like hey I'm Maverick I know that you manage paid media of this company through my research and that's exactly I wanted to speak to you
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okay tell me more do you have any cold calling or tactics but I do like what you said about just doing it I think we can focus on optimizing when it's like if you're not even started just don't even bother about optimizing yeah I don't this is something I learned in Model ML with Chad actually Chad's told me so he ran two consumer companies before this and he was like A-B testing before you get to like 10,000 users complete nonsense and a complete waste of time 10,000 users, 10,000 customers whatever it is mainly yeah
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because you just don't have the data set or the sample size, right? It's like, I don't know, let's say for example you're sending, I don't know, 100 DMs and you get like 10 responses, versus on like, I don't know, sequence A versus sequence B, you send 100 DMs and you get like 14 responses. There's not enough differentiation there, really.
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Brilliant. Okay. That's really, really useful. And you're not technical. So how have you gone about upskilling when it comes to your AI? Yeah, it's funny. It's funny you ask because, you know, it's a question I get a lot. And one of the things when people are like, you're non-technical, it's like...
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no one was technical before 2020. Like even technical people have had to get used to how code code operates or how cursor operates or how whatever AI tools operate. Like these are completely new tools. And so the reality is we've basically gone from like a blank slate in the past six months. And also like these tools are advancing at such rapid rate that
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Like if you, for example, leave the tools for six months and you come back, they're going to be like so much better. So, for example, how have I gone about upskilling? Well, I think the first thing is just to actually get into the tools and really be like, oh, like, shh.
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get it to do all the things that you do so for example like i don't know yesterday i was like hey like i need to make a slide deck and a memo here's all the data or actually i would need to in fact this is a great one i need to make case studies and make me a case study here double the point bang bang bang did end about five minutes um and it would have taken me hours
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On the coding side, I will be very honest. We do just split our duties to the point that Nick just does manage a lot of the code. But I would say in terms of like, you know, to answer the question, like how do you upscale? I think first it's like, sit next to someone who's technical if you can. So me, I'm quite lucky and obviously I'm trying as much as I can to learn and I need to, you know, I want to see it. And so sitting next to Nick, who knows it inside out, who like worked at Amazon and like dropped out of masters in AI,
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is the perfect person to sit next to because he'll be like, okay, here's how you, you know, install this. Here's what like bash means or whatever, like all these different types of things that I otherwise, I wouldn't have known or I'd have had to like, you know, put into chat and then chat my Talni. And it, you know, also like YouTube tutorials. I was for YouTube tutorials. What is your honest tink on AI agents? There's so much hype around that.
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Yeah, so, you know, I think they're fantastic. I think they're awesome. I think, you know, I've seen it, for example, with Maverick Intelligence, where, you know, running multiple AI agents all the time to gather the data that we get on people. So one great statistic about our company right now is that we actually identify more people than there are minutes in the day. We identify a person on our website or across our customer, our total pool of customers' websites every single 30 seconds.
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you know i think we're in like the what's we're identifying something like four or five thousand people a day um across our like across our whole customer base which is like really cool to see um and so we we do that by running you know multiple ai agents simultaneously so for example
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We are identifying who's on the site. We do that by deploying code on the backend of the customer's website. We then run AI agents to query these B2B identity graphs through exclusive partnerships with companies like Demandbase 5x5. And then once we do that, we can then enrich that data further through our like person level agent using person level enrichment tools via Appify.
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uh and then we use a bunch of secret sauce in there as well that i can't necessarily reveal but fundamentally like these ai agents go and they you know they identify who's on the site they identify who what that person's company is they identify what that person's uh who that person is the company
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uh then gather a bunch more data on them uh for example like what pages they visited on the site um whether they'd be like a good potential buyer or not um which we call like the hot leads feature and only then do we then send it to you and this is all taking place like um you know pretty much autonomously nice i love that so you really do believe like they're working whilst you sleep
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Oh, they are because we wake up and we see, you know, one of the first things I check is like, who's viewed our website? Yeah, when I, who's viewed our website and how have our customers performed overnight? You know, I want to make sure that, for example, and also because I, you know, like right now I'm in the UK, but I do transcend as much time as possible in the US. Which is where our customers are and our investor in the UK and the US as well. But yeah.
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You know, right now, for example, I'm in the UK. If I go to bed at midnight, that's like, what, 4 p.m. in SF. And then I want to wake up and I want to see what's happened in the afternoon SF for our customers.
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You have such an insatiable get things done attitude. Is there anything that people can do to get things done more like you? To get things done more? I think ask for what you want. I think I make it such a thing for me to like, I always ask people. I often don't get it as well. I often don't get it. But...
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ask for what you want even when you're not ready to so for example like our in like i think i might mention this before but like i got our investment because i saw a tweet from a guy called gus who like seemed like super well he is super smart he like has a phd from marvel and a postdoc from stanford or what as a partner at this firm called boost which like i've seen is like you know i've seen that pretty cool
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Um, and I emailed him, even though we literally had zero company and I'm like, Hey, I'm Maverick. This is Nick. We want to build it. We're like, we're, you know, we're raising. You aren't raising. We didn't have, we didn't have a company. Um, but I was like, okay, well, if we can get the meeting, then we can raise, uh, then we can like work out how we do this and whatever. So like, you know, and we had a few meetings when we, we got like quite a few meetings like that. And we basically like very transparent, like we didn't have a company. We were hacking on a bunch of things.
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but because we had these meetings, they pushed us towards it. So to answer your question, how do you get things done? It's like, give yourself, like, basically just get in front of people and then get them to expect something from you. So for example, like, I do this quite a lot and I think you have to do this to start a founder, right? It's like...
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oh i tried to do this let's now that we actually have like a fully functioning company but like for example to get our first and earliest users i would dm people being like hey we actually have this thing like can we set it up for you um and it wasn't built and it wasn't built um but because the meeting is scheduled for like five or seven or nine days it's like well if you give me five days we can put something in front of you in that time to wrap up what does the future look like for you and my work intelligence um
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Yeah, so what do we want? I just want to build an incredibly successful company. I want to, beyond like building a successful company, I want to actually help our customers build successful companies too. So to give you an example, we make sure we mandate when we sell to our customers that we have at least a weekly call, if not a daily call with our customers.
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Definitely, nice. Sometimes. It depends how many we've got and how many they want. But yeah, at least a weekly call where we say, how has the software been for you? How have you found it? How many leads have you brought in through this? And just this week, I've had three customers say to me, yeah, that we actually were able to get leads that we otherwise wouldn't have found through Maverick Intelligence. We've got meetings with them, and they're now in our pipeline. And so that's a good dollar amount value from them.
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And so when they say that to me, it's like everything else goes out the window. I'm like, okay, wow, like that makes me so happy. Yeah, brilliant. And one piece of advice for someone who is watching this and they're sitting on idea, are they still all started? Why haven't you started? No, serious. Like what else are you doing? Like you're thinking about what other people think? Fuck her. Do it. If you haven't started, like...
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You know, I think a lot of people think, what if this? What if that? Or I'm not ready yet. It's like, no one's ready. Like, do you think Zuckerberg was ready to run a company when he was 19 and he dropped out of Harvard? No, like he'd never built a company before, but he built great software and he realized that by moving forward, he would figure it out. And OK, actually, no, no, no. Let me give you some even better advice. Find the...
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biggest, baddest, most successful, coolest person in your city or even not your city. And they could be someone that you admire. It could be, I don't know, a sports person. It could be a founder. It could be an investor. It could be anyone that like you've seen online and you're like, wow, that person's super cool. And do everything that you can to work for them.
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For me, like working with Chaz, I say this all the time, it sounds like really cringe. I think I actually sent him the first day I joined. I was like, you know, I'd have worked for you even if you didn't pay me. Find someone who you would literally like just die to be in their presence and then get in their presence.
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And then you were gonna learn so, so much. And this is actually why I'm like, maybe one of the things I like to speak about is how I, you know, if you ask for a hot take, I think graduate schemes aren't the best training for young people. And I think the reason why I think that is because it's very cohort based.
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And again, it's this whole like UK Britishism, like tall poppy syndrome, like everyone in a similar way to how like in the UK, everyone graduates after three or four years. In the US, it's like some people graduate after two years. A lot of people drop out. No one in the UK really drops out. It's not a thing. And this, you know, even as you said, the tall poppy syndrome, like in Colbert, there's only a few positions, isn't there, to get. So you have, you are competing, whereas in entrepreneurship...
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Exactly. And like in graduate schemes, it's like, well, after two years, then you get a promotion from analyst to senior analyst. And then after you've done the graduate scheme, then you go somewhere else. And it's very like it can make you feel like you're progressing. But actually, you're probably in fact not probably. I'm going to go and say that you're almost certainly stagnating because you're somewhat you're somewhat constrained by the by the people and the beliefs around you. Yeah.
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For me, ultimately, what's changed my life is being around people who just live limitlessly. Love that. And with that, we'll air it there. Thank you so much, Lorraine. Great to catch up. Likewise. Well, look, thanks so much for having me. It's been surreal. It's been so much fun. You're a legend.
