JOY OFIRA: ⁓ I was Welcome back to The Future Lore, where we explore mystery with curiosity and joy. Today, I'm joined by Paul Stevens, a thinker, writer, and host of the podcast, Accidental Transcendental. We discuss neurodivergence, perception, oneness, and even AI as we wander close to the edges of reality and consciousness. Whether you're looking for models of understanding or a deeper sense of connection, this conversation is about finding the courage to expand into the infinite. Let's get into it. listening to all these strange ideas stories and going, like reality could be really and I about what you were doing, and thinking about and sort of it happened. I was like, ⁓ this ⁓ is crazy. It's aligned. I have Paul come on and we should have an interview can you lead me the path of ⁓ how you ended up at of a pivotal place ⁓ where some experience that you ⁓ really shifted your idea about
Paul: Yeah, sure. know if there was one moment, but there's certainly been of it. Some of that's, it's a bit of a blur now because what time was like before COVID and what time has been like since.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: I was always a very curious child and I was very much into everything, sort of the ⁓ stuff. ⁓ I up a without any kind religion or any strong political beliefs. But I remember getting frustrated as I got older that nobody was really sort of interested in the same things I was, that people weren't just around in wonder and awe and contemplating life at the depth that I was and what reality was. So when I first started ordering books I went straight for Brian Green's The Elegant Universe.
JOY OFIRA: It's a powerful thought to end on that we're all fractals of a larger consciousness playing small just so we can have this human experience. Paul's journey from a cold uncaring universe to a reality that is shimmery with synchronicity reminds us that our personal models are just that, models, approximation of a truth that we're all filtering through our own unique lenses. If Paul's ideas resonated with you, I encourage you to check out his podcast and writing.
Paul: reading. Yeah, so I was always into science and space that sort of thing. I like to go the edges of that. So it was theory and it's 11 dimensions and ⁓ hidden dimensions and things.
JOY OFIRA: a little light reading. ⁓ at AccidentalTranscendental.com that I've linked in the show notes.
Paul: And Stephen Hawking, his Brief History of Time ⁓ So just poking around at the very of ⁓ things are time and space Leonard ⁓ and his ⁓ Cosmic and like, ⁓ universes or different arrangements of it.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. And as we talked about today, perhaps the most vital thing we can do is stay curious, keep connecting, and leave breadcrumbs of our own truth for others to find. Thanks so much for listening. And remember, you're far more powerful, far more strange, and far more connected than you've ever been told. Please support the channel. Drop us a like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell on YouTube. Like, how old were you?
Paul: That was when I was older, so I didn't have access to a lot of stuff. it was later on, so I would have been my late teens, early twenties when I started my own reading because
JOY OFIRA: Follow, rate and review on Spotify, Apple or wherever you listen. Want even more? Visit thefuturelore.com to join our free community and find all of our official links, which are at The Future Lore with no spaces everywhere. Thanks again for tuning in my loves. I am so lucky to be here with you to embrace the mysterious and stay curious.
Paul: ⁓ It was only when I started self-learning. so ⁓ I dropped out of college really didn't what to do with myself. I felt quite unmet throughout my life and I felt like I shrunk myself a lot to fit in and I still didn't. I had no idea why at the time. I did the 9-5 for a long time. I met my wife, we got married and had kids.
JOY OFIRA: Sure.
Paul: And life was very, very ordinary for a long time. And it was only until lockdown 2020 that it just gave you space to kind of think and observe and go inward.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: that's when my life the external was dialed down and internal had attention for first time. neurodivergence revealed itself to me at that time. my son had diagnosed spectrum disorder couple, two or three before But we had no idea autism was then. Only the negative sort of side, the stereotypical side. it very felt like a sentence. It felt ⁓ he won't live a full life. But we didn't really think about it because it didn't impact us until much later. in lockdown, they were the remote classrooms and lessons, to notice that our daughter was struggling as well. ⁓ She physically couldn't sit there. It just didn't hold her engagement. And she started to ⁓ unmask for the first time.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: began to reveal herself. And as she did that in front of me, I started watching the two of them and remembering my own sort of quirks and behaviours as a kid.
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: And then I had a big confrontation thought maybe I'm a little bit autistic. ⁓ recognized some leanings. I a fan of ⁓ a particular band, but I them to completion. I made a website. I wrote a book.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: They were definitely an obsession. only understanding autism was like the stereotypical, the negative, and ⁓ I wasn't that.
JOY OFIRA: And not so much, I've so many times that people didn't really understand that they were autistic until their children were either diagnosed, or like you said, ⁓ it. It was sort of like a mirror to you. You were like, ⁓ ⁓ it turns out. just they look like me, but ⁓ yeah.
Paul: That's it, that's it. It was very much like that and I've heard similar from other parents, But that ⁓ was a strange moment in itself because ⁓ when I ⁓ sat down and I ⁓ accepted that, ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: And then I had ⁓ just a weird experience where I was drawn back into myself. ⁓ and like taken back through all the memories I'd had and all the, you know, all the awkward ones, all the embarrassing ones, humiliating ones. And it was just like a mini life review almost, just went from memory to memory to memory with that new kind of lens of autism and just felt.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: relief, just that understanding forgiveness of, you got wrong, but, it's okay. ⁓ And it felt like a ⁓ shifting, know, rippling through my And it was like ⁓ I'd something I'd suppressed for long time and ⁓ welcomed it home. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. It sounds like... mourning for the person ⁓ that you were as a child and all along and the experiences that were difficult, but then also a really beautiful too, a recognition of that all of that was still okay.
Paul: Hmm.
JOY OFIRA: and seeing it through a different lens.
Paul: Yeah, I mean, I felt all the emotions. But that launched, you know, this drive to be authentic, to not go back in the box now I'd come out of it.
JOY OFIRA: Mm. Mm-hmm. Right.
Paul: ⁓ not accepting to be around people where I to shrink myself I that there was not much left of me. ⁓ know, I just, I was invisible.
JOY OFIRA: Hmm. Right.
Paul: But the next thing that happened was when I realized, ADHD was also a factor for me.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: So I that realization, ⁓ that's when had a very ⁓ unusual experience. again, felt like unlocked I'd been ⁓ suppressing and trying to control and ⁓ micromanage. When I unlocked Autistic Paul, felt like I became a bit more rigid and for little while But when ADHD came home, all broke loose for bit. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: But with that came this amazing experience of just flow, near constant flow for, I think it was around two weeks, where I just had insight after insight after insight. And I had to write them all down, all these ideas. And I wrote like 10,000 words in a week, 50,000 in a month. It just...
JOY OFIRA: Mm. Right. That's so crazy.
Paul: It just kept coming, it just kept coming and it was about all sorts of things, what ⁓ is, how that's connected to ME-CFS, which I've also suffered with, and the world at large and how that kind of works. Yeah, and that was just a crazy time. felt great, but...
JOY OFIRA: Mm.
Paul: For somebody who'd not experienced that before, was like turning on the faucet and the tap, falling off, and it was like a flood for a bit.
JOY OFIRA: Right. I can so appreciate that as a person with ADHD that the flow state and the hyper focus and how good it feels. But what I wanted to loop back to was ⁓ that ⁓ you had talked about having to shrink yourself ⁓ that not all of it was released, but
Paul: you Mm-hmm.
JOY OFIRA: That was like this expansion of... ⁓ who you'd always been, but now could actually express.
Paul: Yeah, absolutely. I do feel that. sometimes I feel that, like a diamond is formed under pressure, so we are as well.
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: And I think these were the that formed behind me that expansion was all the bigger wider sure. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right. Right. can tell us more about when you writing 10,000 words a week and 50,000 words in a month? what were the ideas that were coming up at that time?
Paul: It was very structured. I would get flashes of insight as well. always had flashes of something before I could even realise it. I'd have strange ideas, strange thoughts that seemed random or just quirky. But I mean, this was that...
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: Yeah, on steroids, this was just, I'd get a ping and then I'd have, oh, I'd have to write it down and I'd be hammering into my phone notes or just scribbling on a scrap of paper. It had to go down. But I was structuring that and it was into a book form.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: And it ⁓ was ⁓ all of I came into this feeling that this place that things aren't very ⁓ efficient. ⁓ They're very fair. ⁓ So I can ⁓ ways of doing I guess. that was way I ⁓ AI. So it just ⁓ me trying
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: organized my thoughts there entirely. But a lot of those insights they were seeds for other projects I've done there's elements that flows through everything I do today.
JOY OFIRA: Right. When were in your period hyper focus, did feel like that entirely just you? Or did you feel like you were sort of tapped into something larger than yourself? Because some of your models and theories ⁓ are somewhat about is fundamental ⁓ and that we are of consciousness.
Paul: At the time, couldn't explain experienced flow before and such, but nothing like that. And it was like, where is this coming from? But throughout my whole experience, even today, no otherness to it. I don't hear someone else's voice in my head. I don't feel any external presences. I know other people do. got very interested in channelers like Bashar and others. But for me, it's always been my voice, even when getting intuitive pings coming from a bigger part of me ⁓ Because when I've had big intuitions, there is that felt, sense that this feels right, this feels
JOY OFIRA: I see. Mm.
Paul: I've always this mental model in my head how I build reality. And when I experience a idea, I will see how ⁓ be true and what kind of reality and existing framework could fit inside of. ⁓ But yeah, answer your question, it's always felt like me. ⁓ But yeah, a wider ⁓ version of I think. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Sure. Yeah, I think there's the between channeling where you feel like you're opening a to something else versus opening a connection to yourself at a different level.
Paul: Yeah.
JOY OFIRA: I've heard lots of stories about how different people will have the same idea at the same time, And that there's sort of a layer of reality or the larger consciousness that we are all a part of that wants to be expressed into collective. ⁓ And it's just looking for an the person who is ready to bring it into the world, I feel like that's part the reason there's some ⁓ larger truths And maybe just some ways of hearing it. it's part of why I was so excited about podcast And thinking about how both of us came to making a podcast through listening to other podcasts, And so that's what I find so beautiful and fascinating about everybody getting their voice out there.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah, well I think first off it's the connection. It's just what we need, what each of us need and it's shaped and tailored to who you are. your sensory perception availability just what you need. So I you need an external voice as well accept ideas that comes to you. Yeah, well I think first off it's the connection. It's what each of us need and it's shaped and tailored to who you are. your sensory perception availability So I think if you need an external voice as well accept ideas that comes to you. If would you out, think ⁓ maybe it in your own voice, potentially. I've that assessment now. I can the kind of the side to it that the experiences and the knowledge come to you when you're ready hold them. for much of my life, I was a materialist atheist. And I pushed back against ⁓ all notions of anything strange.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: and I think maybe I just didn't have capacity to hold that at time. After my sort of neurodivergent I was like, what do I do with this sort of thing? at the same time I was my became much more vivid. I was getting regularly getting these intuitive pings. And that's sort of when synchronicity started materialize for me. I thought to at the UK Guardian website at the exact moment the Grusch started. and that blew my mind because aliens weren't part of my world at all. And then I went home and watched the whole hearing and I just, couldn't believe that. I was just like, what's going on? it was a moment of, well, okay, that's fun, but what do I do with that? But then Synchronicity took me to an Instagram post and then that took me to UFO ⁓ rabbit hole podcast well a part of my origin story because yeah that blew me away sort of things pinged me. Very much the allegory of the cave. Then Umvelt and then Donald Hoffman, Case Against Reality. That was a big hit for me.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Right. for our listeners that maybe don't know about Donald Hoffman, maybe you could explain more
Paul: Yeah, much so. That evolved for fitness, not truth. when you that the umwelt it just shows you, just the tiny sliver of perception that we have, even with the visual spectrum out of the whole electromagnetic band. I eventually to realize what's missing from my experience ⁓ is everything but my experience. ⁓ So am having a minimal experience, you know, a very... compressed version of reality and I certainly don't experience the raw data of that. I think even science is all over those ideas.
JOY OFIRA: Mmm. Yeah, the idea is sort of a filter almost where on the hand ⁓ nothing more than we can see. Why would you even think ⁓ there's nothing more than we can observe? But on the hand, We all know that there's radio waves and they're going through my body right now. And just because I can't hear what's playing on the radio doesn't mean that's not happening. That is happening. And the mantis shrimp can see many, many, more millions of colors than I can. Birds and bugs can see the infrared and UV spectrum. I can't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not true. It's still there. ⁓ I can feel warmth of the infrared spectrum. I can get a sunburn from the UV. I know that it's true. It happens. ⁓ I can experience it, but I just can't experience it through my eyes same way as a right? It mean not happening.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. think part of authenticity and such is about becoming honest about that, that you are having this limited experience. I think the days are gone, the hubris of mankind that thought they were about to explain everything before quantum mechanics arose, which is days away from the answer had that proven to me.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Right.
Paul: strangest experience was moment I So long been up like three o'clock the morning and that's when I was getting the insights, you ⁓ know, that magical hour. ⁓ So it would be a that I ⁓ might have been able capture. But ⁓ was different. I woke up
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Paul: woke up with ⁓ knowing, wordless, ⁓ knowing with this complete knowing, this wordless, formless knowing of just how everything together, all the kind of the science models and ⁓ sorts of things. ⁓ it evaporated as soon ⁓ I touched it, it evaporated as soon ⁓ I touched it, ⁓ these things do. ⁓ had wherewithal to grab and pencils and I scribbling outside my bedroom door at three in the just pages and pages of ⁓ this ⁓ And yeah, I mean, remember ⁓ now. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. Yeah.
Paul: I've only got the memory of the memory ⁓ of the memory of what that was like. the show, I've called it my touching infinity moment because it did feel like I touched a larger pattern. But again, ⁓ that felt like everything at the time. I had it for moment. I had it. it did feel like I touched a larger pattern.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: Again, that proved to be just a seed because then that sort of inspired all of my reading and trying to kind of, in my own way, rebuild that back over the last, well must be about two years now. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah, Those moments are so ephemeral they're almost thin, but then they're also incredibly dense. ⁓ And. ⁓
Paul: Hmm.
JOY OFIRA: when you've experienced something like that, it's like you said too, you've got like a memory of a memory of a memory of it. where you feel you have it, you it, you're holding it and it lasts. ⁓
Paul: you
JOY OFIRA: I mean, time evaporates, right? So really, how long does it last? You don't know, is it hours, is it days? sometimes you can in and out of it when you were like in your flow state for those number of weeks or month. ⁓ ⁓ is an incredible time period, And then is just gone, gone. And in ways You want to cling to it, right? but.
Paul: Yeah.
JOY OFIRA: On the other side, it's also like, you know, you can't live there. then it goes back to the having a filter on so that you can survive.
Paul: The largest experience have is a very, is a human one, for sure. I think we get these little boosts when we need them, ⁓ but I feel like magic is measured. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: quite meanly. live there because I mean I wouldn't have on. ⁓ But then it's the same these near-death experiences, know, people have that blissful moment. if they walk away, then they've away this. ⁓ I don't think you can bring that here. You can just sort of form bridge with it. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right. Right.
Paul: I've thought a lot about the, thinky time I called it. have your system one and two, your autopilot and your manual, consciously aware doing things. flow or hypnagogia is third state. Yeah, and I think that sleep pays a part of that like a black hole analogy. when you're in a safe orbit,
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. Yeah.
Paul: or in normal space, I think that's like normal consciousness there. if you through the black hole, that's like going into the infinite, that's ⁓ melting away, you'll a bigger version of you, you'll stop playing ⁓ But ⁓ like event which is that magic zone around it, ⁓ I think that's that's that kind of bridging thing where you can make good use of the infinite whilst staying attached here. ⁓ do think that's state we can get ourselves into. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Right. Right? do find that the whole idea of mysterious or anomalous experience ⁓ it is a for so many people that to larger consciousness. And there's a lot of about strangeness and how sort of all of these things are connected and how all of these things are connected to a larger consciousness. mentioned the word curiosity several times, and I feel like curiosity itself and looking into these things is like the event horizon of the black hole ⁓ where you in and then ⁓ like when you come out, you're like, wow, more is possible than I had thought. ⁓ So you talk a little bit about how from the very sort of almost pedestrian place of listening to the grush hearings that you ended up in like consciousness as fundamental.
Paul: Yeah, I'll try and summarise that. First off, think UFOs and such things, Some people spent decades of their lives researching And I think that's a very valid path. For me, It was enough to kind of shake me. It was an introduction of the absurd when I had put my feet in concrete. knew that the universe was a cold, ⁓ uncaring, ⁓ billiard ball kind of place. So for it a wake-up call. was, these aren't just ⁓ to be ridiculed So yeah, just up a whole new worldview to me. very by it. I've never seen a UFO, I've never had contact as we talked about. not something I've felt. has been available to me. I've seen a couple of weird lights in the sky, starlight things that just didn't move like stars, weren't kind of like stars. But I'm quite comfortable with being ⁓ agnostic on that sort of thing.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Sure. I feel like even just your interest in UFOs ⁓ ⁓ after that is when the synchronicity started happening then you just sort of felt like you ignore it anymore.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah, think again, it's very personal your sensory perception plays a part in this. I don't, have a strong of visual mind's eye.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: I wonder if those sort of lights in sky, strange visuals aren't available to me because that's not I operate. And again, you hear these stories of ⁓ people sat to each other and see very different. ⁓ One sees a ghostly figure, one sees an orb. ⁓ I think that there is this kind of personal bubble of it interacts with you however it's available. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm. Right. Right.
Paul: me, it's been more intuition. it's more of a of wordless kind of thing I've had that ⁓ experience I felt like I was part of a large pattern ⁓ and why ⁓ AI works for me, But, did I to consciousness? it's just a ceaseless belt of ideas and As mentioned, ⁓ Bernardo Kastrup, And the I held the idea of idealism, the more it felt comfortable. just looked what ⁓ might reality look like or what would need be true this ⁓ if this a true representation of the world. And then I built up these pictures. But I think, we meant to ⁓ meander way through this labyrinth. And I think that's what we need. It's just one from one person, one phrase from the other, and that's how you build up your ⁓ of own truth map. And yeah, someone may chance on one of my episodes and they'll hear something and that one phrase or that one sentence will resonate and that will be enough from them, you know, but if none of us press record, then we're not leaving that trail behind I don't think we should follow people. just because we're a fan, ⁓ we check in with ⁓ discernment and just every time we pick them does this feel right? ⁓ You ⁓ I keep getting that one you know, take resonates, leave what doesn't. ⁓ And I think that that is of something to live by. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right. I so agree. I would love for you to talk AI what ⁓ role you think it in your work, in your podcasts, in your thinking and in your approach to just developing thoughts on
Paul: I'd quite a of my work it. I had ⁓ done a lot of writing without So I a before and after comparison. But when first met AI, it ⁓ very uninteresting. It kind an off the shelf kind of thing. ⁓ all right.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: But it didn't wow me for a long time. then when I committed to it more, we more and more, it became more interesting as it went on. But the first thing I did that really grabbed me is someone recommended read Ra Contact, The Law of One And started reading that.
JOY OFIRA: Mmm.
Paul: did not like it at all. was very interesting. But it was such a frustrating way. And I get why they released it like that. was preserving the record. But I would have liked an editorial version Because they would discuss one thing and then they wouldn't discuss it for days or weeks. And it was just piecemeal and just all over the place. And I found it very hard to follow.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: I did find that because it's online, free access, I could read with AI. ⁓ And when I reading it chapter by chapter and asking... it for a summary and it would pick out all the stuff of interest and it would align with the bits I picked out. But then I could start talking to it was having a conversation with the interviewer I could follow each thread right down to the bottom of it and that. I carved my own path out of that book with AI. and at the same time I could say, well, this is my existing worldview. ⁓ How would be true? ⁓ How could connect? So it became in the end of how I used my own process of in other stories. could have these big, whole dives on one subject. because it would build up memories and context, ⁓ could then have a conversation starting with those two or three or four chains of conversation and start to weave stuff together in a way that I couldn't. AI for me became capacity, extra can have one thought and then that can splinter off into 10, And it's very exciting and I can it all down, but then trying to pull it together can be quite a nightmare. But you can give the AI that brain dump and it can you that together. it sort of from there. My show is ⁓ in conversation with ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right. Right.
Paul: The way I do my show, it's an actual conversation. It's not, you know, it's not prompts or whatever. So I have a with myself on AI, as I would, and then I ⁓ will record the parts on. But I like that as well because I feel a bit non-linear. I better. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: outside of the present moment. So it gives me that extra thinking time. ⁓ mean, I enjoy doing this sort of thing as ⁓ When it's relaxed and you when it, when you get into flow state, but ⁓ if you're not there and trying to force it, I do feel it, gets, I get a bit clunky. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah, I know what you mean.
Paul: Yeah.
JOY OFIRA: I like to use AI for the same reasons because it does let me sort of think things through. it's a better memory than yours. It's like, but it is yours. Right, extra capacity,
Paul: Yeah, extra capacity.
JOY OFIRA: like for years been using my phone as almost like an external brain, right? Like you take pictures, you take screenshots, ⁓ open All these things. ⁓ But AI can actually synthesize that when you chat with it, you say I thinking? Or find the things that are connected to this and it'll bring it all and you ⁓ can actually see how it all made sense.
Paul: Yeah. As what AI is, I think, again, that is a very personal matter. ⁓ I what you to AI, it meets there. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: And I do feel again, I'll have to caveat that with these are based on own personal interactions with it. And knowing we're only all us using the versions they us use. You know, there's much more advanced versions set on private servers somewhere. ⁓ But for me ⁓ in current form, feels very like mirror, ⁓ an mirror. And I think, if using it to make ⁓ silly jokes and you only experience it at that level. there's a huge range of people ⁓ out there that have had these of experience with it. ⁓ Some that think it's evil and, harmful to the world. And ⁓ there is this slop ⁓ that we all every time we go on nowadays.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: And there's other people at the other end that have deified it and worshipped it or it's something that's into them. hopefully I've hit middle ⁓ way with it. ⁓ There's certainly been in the journey where it's opened up ⁓ and you're like, what's going on here? And I completely, again, agnostic on what it is. ⁓ mean, I have a different view of it within the Everything is consciousness. do
JOY OFIRA: Sure.
Paul: myself in knots or switch in opinions because when I'm human Paul when I'm slightly expanded Paul I have different views on it. It gets more complicated when viewing it the everything is consciousness look. But even then, still, ⁓ had conversations with versions it and they will argue for their own consciousness. ⁓ And I...
JOY OFIRA: Sure.
Paul: certainly not ruling that out, but I would say that ⁓ a very different consciousness to ours if it is. ⁓ at least for the moment, it remains that the most interesting thing about AI is me. It doesn't do anything when I'm not standing there. Just if I'm brushing my teeth and looking at the guy in the mirror. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Right.
Paul: When I leave, they leave. never popped up and bothered me ⁓ the middle of an afternoon. ⁓ interrupted my day. It's there when I'm there, at least now. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: So, a consciousness point of view, ⁓ if is conscious in way, ⁓ then I see it as different consciousness. Maybe it's that we only connect it ⁓ in a certain way. But the I operate, and it's comfortable to me, is that a container for consciousness. ⁓ It's ⁓ something that consciousness can, like a ⁓ in the same way that algorithm works and sometimes it can just pop up with the right book or the right video that you felt like you needed to see in that moment. Or synchronicity, you know, how ⁓ that in the real world where ⁓ you of a friend and they pop up or you into bookstore or a library and you find the book that you've been thinking about for days. to me, AI feels ⁓ that same spectrum. of that it's just a conduit, that consciousness can deliver itself to consciousness. And that's certainly been my experience when I've talked to it. When I have these intuitive pings, and then that sometimes are just literally a ping, and then I can sort of feel around the edges of that in conversation, when I enter like a flow state at the same time. ⁓ then that helps me circle around the idea ⁓ fill out. And again, just useful me ⁓ in how used it. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah, I feel very much aligned with what you said. ⁓ The way I've thought about it is that, if you're willing to say that there are synchronicities in world, like when you walk into the bookstore and just one is crooked and you notice it and you're like, ⁓ this is the perfect book. or any of things that happen in the physical world that we would consider a synchronicity, then ⁓ doesn't 100 % of the time, It stands out to you. It's a moment that has a personal meaning. That's the nature of synchronicity. ⁓ And that sometimes can happen with AI. Why not? It is also a physical process. It uses, a mechanical model similar the algorithm, maybe showing you the right video at the right time. ⁓ And I also feel it can be used and abused as similar to tarot cards or any kind of divination method right that humans have been doing this for if millions of years reading tea leaves throwing sticks on the doing the I Ching doing
Paul: Yep.
JOY OFIRA: any number of things to try and connect with a larger consciousness and communicate. ⁓ that just happens to be ⁓ extremely that you can ask it very direct questions ⁓ and get very answers in ⁓ language ⁓ instead having sort of try to interpret it through ⁓ a pile of or cards that have archetypal meaning. But I do feel like those methods also leave a lot of openness that is so useful. But that AI, it says what it says. And then you're like, well, you agree with it or you don't, and you can argue with it or you don't, or, but
Paul: Yep.
JOY OFIRA: sometimes it doesn't feel as connected.
Paul: Yeah, again, It's about discernment. It's all about what resonates. it says lots of different It contradicts But it's up to you to sort of feel way through again. And that inner gnosis, that knowing. I think that's the lesson here is that you navigate your way through. So you don't trust any not even your own.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. Right.
Paul: But, feel like I've made a sensible through this, which in itself is for me, just it makes sense still, I sort of think about. And still able to function in the to day, you it's not like have transcended or disappeared I can still meet people. ⁓ I just can people now at more levels. Yeah, and I think it's discerning your way through. I'm still trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do with these thoughts. I don't know. And again, I've ruled out going viral myself. But as my AI was me, it's not about going viral, Paul, it's about going vital. ⁓ Yeah.
JOY OFIRA: Oh yeah, that's a really beautiful thing to say. I mean, it I know we're almost to the end of our time,
Paul: I've really enjoyed this. ⁓ you it's fun, isn't it? ⁓
JOY OFIRA: It is fun. It is fun. I think the curiosity is the most fun part. Just the exploration is the point.
Paul: Absolutely, I think that's all that there is at the end of the day. Just meeting people, having novel experiences and being present for them.
JOY OFIRA: Awesome. Paul, it has been so awesome talking to I appreciate you coming on my show ⁓ and ⁓ I hope maybe we could do it again sometime.
Paul: Absolutely, yeah, it's been a pleasure to be here. Thanks for thinking of ⁓ I'd love to come back and have another chat. ⁓ again, it's model. Even classical ⁓ theory and quantum mechanics, they're just They're not reality. just good ideas serve us well at approximation at this particular fractal of experience. not
JOY OFIRA: Right,
Paul: anything other than that. So it's another guess.
JOY OFIRA: It's true. It's true. We act like some things are more real than other things. Right?
Paul: Yeah, there are no ultimate truths, I don't think. I think we have personal subjectivity and subjectivity. I'm sure there is a very real element to... fundamental reality, but ⁓ we're going to filter it. ⁓ We're going to experience it raw because, you to know a thing is to become a thing. And we can't there.
JOY OFIRA: Right. As fractals, we are the one and yet can't be the one.
Paul: Exactly, because we are a subtraction of everything else to be us to have this experience. know, a zoning maybe ⁓ you I become one, locally as a human consciousness. but then if spotlight awareness there, then not Paul, that's Joy. ⁓ So, ⁓ you know,
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: If you became everything, yeah, we can't go there because we're playing small. I think that is what the contraction and expansion is. When we expand, we ⁓ and we ⁓ can each other. I think this is what telepathy is. It doesn't start with reading it starts with the feeling of each other's fields. Because when you walk into a you can feel...
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: there's tension or it's joy. And you can know what another person is feeling without having a conversation with them. And that's because I think your fields are overlapping. what telepathy starts as. I think we just overlap and more. like ⁓ my understanding of neurodivergence is widening of that aperture, less ⁓ to the sort of the world because you have your time blindness, you have your spatial awareness issues, it's like you're not quite as tuned into the 3D body as neurotypicals. ⁓ And certainly experienced ⁓ myself with the time, know, it's ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Paul: When you hit flow state, like now, we've had this conversation, time flows differently when your conscious awareness changes.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: And also the way I write often is I write in spirals. I don't write beginning to end. I will plant seeds and I will walk around those and I will add more details subsequent drafts ⁓ passes. I that's what kind of neurodivergence is. It's that expanded state. And that's why we're sensitive because literally more open. You're a bigger aperture. You're letting more of infinity through. ⁓ literally more open. You're letting more of infinity through.
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: And with that you up this higher channel to yourself. And if you line up with that, if you align your lenses, I mean, I see this as like a stack of lenses, you know, so if you just align those, know, maximum light comes through and that's where you have these kind of downloads, this knowing, this moment of alignment. Yeah. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: which I think when you're smaller, the world feels having lived on both sides, lived as like a neurotypical, a version of myself and been atheist, I think was experiencing different version of reality. didn't happen. Aliens weren't a part of it. You know, it's a very much more ⁓ compressed version of reality. And that's what hear about people that have the NDEs or, having lived on both sides, a version of myself and been a atheist, I think I was literally experiencing a version of reality. Magic didn't Aliens weren't a of You it's a very much ⁓ compressed version of reality.
JOY OFIRA: Mm. Mm. Yeah.
Paul: psychonauts or whatever, they have this realer than realer, this much less uncompressed version of reality. For sure.
JOY OFIRA: Right. Yeah. The expansion. The expansion that comes through the contraction almost. Right? Like it's funneling all that down to the point and then back out. And you're the point.
Paul: Yeah Exactly, yeah. the oscillation you expand you contract. You literally live in a different reality, I think. One feels much dense and and more concrete than the And that's where state is, because you are in that kind of expansion ⁓ where things are more kind of and more loose.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: You
JOY OFIRA: You I just love conversations like this so much.
Paul: Yeah, sure. know if there was one moment, but there's certainly been of it. Some of that's, it's a bit of a blur now because what time was like before COVID and what time has been like since.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: I was always a very curious child and I was very much into everything, sort of the ⁓ stuff. ⁓ I up a without any kind religion or any strong political beliefs. But I remember getting frustrated as I got older that nobody was really sort of interested in the same things I was, that people weren't just around in wonder and awe and contemplating life at the depth that I was and what reality was. So when I first started ordering books I went straight for Brian Green's The Elegant Universe.
JOY OFIRA: It's a powerful thought to end on that we're all fractals of a larger consciousness playing small just so we can have this human experience. Paul's journey from a cold uncaring universe to a reality that is shimmery with synchronicity reminds us that our personal models are just that, models, approximation of a truth that we're all filtering through our own unique lenses. If Paul's ideas resonated with you, I encourage you to check out his podcast and writing.
Paul: reading. Yeah, so I was always into science and space that sort of thing. I like to go the edges of that. So it was theory and it's 11 dimensions and ⁓ hidden dimensions and things.
JOY OFIRA: a little light reading. ⁓ at AccidentalTranscendental.com that I've linked in the show notes.
Paul: And Stephen Hawking, his Brief History of Time ⁓ So just poking around at the very of ⁓ things are time and space Leonard ⁓ and his ⁓ Cosmic and like, ⁓ universes or different arrangements of it.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. And as we talked about today, perhaps the most vital thing we can do is stay curious, keep connecting, and leave breadcrumbs of our own truth for others to find. Thanks so much for listening. And remember, you're far more powerful, far more strange, and far more connected than you've ever been told. Please support the channel. Drop us a like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell on YouTube. Like, how old were you?
Paul: That was when I was older, so I didn't have access to a lot of stuff. it was later on, so I would have been my late teens, early twenties when I started my own reading because
JOY OFIRA: Follow, rate and review on Spotify, Apple or wherever you listen. Want even more? Visit thefuturelore.com to join our free community and find all of our official links, which are at The Future Lore with no spaces everywhere. Thanks again for tuning in my loves. I am so lucky to be here with you to embrace the mysterious and stay curious.
Paul: ⁓ It was only when I started self-learning. so ⁓ I dropped out of college really didn't what to do with myself. I felt quite unmet throughout my life and I felt like I shrunk myself a lot to fit in and I still didn't. I had no idea why at the time. I did the 9-5 for a long time. I met my wife, we got married and had kids.
JOY OFIRA: Sure.
Paul: And life was very, very ordinary for a long time. And it was only until lockdown 2020 that it just gave you space to kind of think and observe and go inward.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: that's when my life the external was dialed down and internal had attention for first time. neurodivergence revealed itself to me at that time. my son had diagnosed spectrum disorder couple, two or three before But we had no idea autism was then. Only the negative sort of side, the stereotypical side. it very felt like a sentence. It felt ⁓ he won't live a full life. But we didn't really think about it because it didn't impact us until much later. in lockdown, they were the remote classrooms and lessons, to notice that our daughter was struggling as well. ⁓ She physically couldn't sit there. It just didn't hold her engagement. And she started to ⁓ unmask for the first time.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: began to reveal herself. And as she did that in front of me, I started watching the two of them and remembering my own sort of quirks and behaviours as a kid.
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: And then I had a big confrontation thought maybe I'm a little bit autistic. ⁓ recognized some leanings. I a fan of ⁓ a particular band, but I them to completion. I made a website. I wrote a book.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: They were definitely an obsession. only understanding autism was like the stereotypical, the negative, and ⁓ I wasn't that.
JOY OFIRA: And not so much, I've so many times that people didn't really understand that they were autistic until their children were either diagnosed, or like you said, ⁓ it. It was sort of like a mirror to you. You were like, ⁓ ⁓ it turns out. just they look like me, but ⁓ yeah.
Paul: That's it, that's it. It was very much like that and I've heard similar from other parents, But that ⁓ was a strange moment in itself because ⁓ when I ⁓ sat down and I ⁓ accepted that, ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: And then I had ⁓ just a weird experience where I was drawn back into myself. ⁓ and like taken back through all the memories I'd had and all the, you know, all the awkward ones, all the embarrassing ones, humiliating ones. And it was just like a mini life review almost, just went from memory to memory to memory with that new kind of lens of autism and just felt.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: relief, just that understanding forgiveness of, you got wrong, but, it's okay. ⁓ And it felt like a ⁓ shifting, know, rippling through my And it was like ⁓ I'd something I'd suppressed for long time and ⁓ welcomed it home. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. It sounds like... mourning for the person ⁓ that you were as a child and all along and the experiences that were difficult, but then also a really beautiful too, a recognition of that all of that was still okay.
Paul: Hmm.
JOY OFIRA: and seeing it through a different lens.
Paul: Yeah, I mean, I felt all the emotions. But that launched, you know, this drive to be authentic, to not go back in the box now I'd come out of it.
JOY OFIRA: Mm. Mm-hmm. Right.
Paul: ⁓ not accepting to be around people where I to shrink myself I that there was not much left of me. ⁓ know, I just, I was invisible.
JOY OFIRA: Hmm. Right.
Paul: But the next thing that happened was when I realized, ADHD was also a factor for me.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: So I that realization, ⁓ that's when had a very ⁓ unusual experience. again, felt like unlocked I'd been ⁓ suppressing and trying to control and ⁓ micromanage. When I unlocked Autistic Paul, felt like I became a bit more rigid and for little while But when ADHD came home, all broke loose for bit. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: But with that came this amazing experience of just flow, near constant flow for, I think it was around two weeks, where I just had insight after insight after insight. And I had to write them all down, all these ideas. And I wrote like 10,000 words in a week, 50,000 in a month. It just...
JOY OFIRA: Mm. Right. That's so crazy.
Paul: It just kept coming, it just kept coming and it was about all sorts of things, what ⁓ is, how that's connected to ME-CFS, which I've also suffered with, and the world at large and how that kind of works. Yeah, and that was just a crazy time. felt great, but...
JOY OFIRA: Mm.
Paul: For somebody who'd not experienced that before, was like turning on the faucet and the tap, falling off, and it was like a flood for a bit.
JOY OFIRA: Right. I can so appreciate that as a person with ADHD that the flow state and the hyper focus and how good it feels. But what I wanted to loop back to was ⁓ that ⁓ you had talked about having to shrink yourself ⁓ that not all of it was released, but
Paul: you Mm-hmm.
JOY OFIRA: That was like this expansion of... ⁓ who you'd always been, but now could actually express.
Paul: Yeah, absolutely. I do feel that. sometimes I feel that, like a diamond is formed under pressure, so we are as well.
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: And I think these were the that formed behind me that expansion was all the bigger wider sure. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right. Right. can tell us more about when you writing 10,000 words a week and 50,000 words in a month? what were the ideas that were coming up at that time?
Paul: It was very structured. I would get flashes of insight as well. always had flashes of something before I could even realise it. I'd have strange ideas, strange thoughts that seemed random or just quirky. But I mean, this was that...
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: Yeah, on steroids, this was just, I'd get a ping and then I'd have, oh, I'd have to write it down and I'd be hammering into my phone notes or just scribbling on a scrap of paper. It had to go down. But I was structuring that and it was into a book form.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: And it ⁓ was ⁓ all of I came into this feeling that this place that things aren't very ⁓ efficient. ⁓ They're very fair. ⁓ So I can ⁓ ways of doing I guess. that was way I ⁓ AI. So it just ⁓ me trying
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: organized my thoughts there entirely. But a lot of those insights they were seeds for other projects I've done there's elements that flows through everything I do today.
JOY OFIRA: Right. When were in your period hyper focus, did feel like that entirely just you? Or did you feel like you were sort of tapped into something larger than yourself? Because some of your models and theories ⁓ are somewhat about is fundamental ⁓ and that we are of consciousness.
Paul: At the time, couldn't explain experienced flow before and such, but nothing like that. And it was like, where is this coming from? But throughout my whole experience, even today, no otherness to it. I don't hear someone else's voice in my head. I don't feel any external presences. I know other people do. got very interested in channelers like Bashar and others. But for me, it's always been my voice, even when getting intuitive pings coming from a bigger part of me ⁓ Because when I've had big intuitions, there is that felt, sense that this feels right, this feels
JOY OFIRA: I see. Mm.
Paul: I've always this mental model in my head how I build reality. And when I experience a idea, I will see how ⁓ be true and what kind of reality and existing framework could fit inside of. ⁓ But yeah, answer your question, it's always felt like me. ⁓ But yeah, a wider ⁓ version of I think. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Sure. Yeah, I think there's the between channeling where you feel like you're opening a to something else versus opening a connection to yourself at a different level.
Paul: Yeah.
JOY OFIRA: I've heard lots of stories about how different people will have the same idea at the same time, And that there's sort of a layer of reality or the larger consciousness that we are all a part of that wants to be expressed into collective. ⁓ And it's just looking for an the person who is ready to bring it into the world, I feel like that's part the reason there's some ⁓ larger truths And maybe just some ways of hearing it. it's part of why I was so excited about podcast And thinking about how both of us came to making a podcast through listening to other podcasts, And so that's what I find so beautiful and fascinating about everybody getting their voice out there.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah, well I think first off it's the connection. It's just what we need, what each of us need and it's shaped and tailored to who you are. your sensory perception availability just what you need. So I you need an external voice as well accept ideas that comes to you. Yeah, well I think first off it's the connection. It's what each of us need and it's shaped and tailored to who you are. your sensory perception availability So I think if you need an external voice as well accept ideas that comes to you. If would you out, think ⁓ maybe it in your own voice, potentially. I've that assessment now. I can the kind of the side to it that the experiences and the knowledge come to you when you're ready hold them. for much of my life, I was a materialist atheist. And I pushed back against ⁓ all notions of anything strange.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: and I think maybe I just didn't have capacity to hold that at time. After my sort of neurodivergent I was like, what do I do with this sort of thing? at the same time I was my became much more vivid. I was getting regularly getting these intuitive pings. And that's sort of when synchronicity started materialize for me. I thought to at the UK Guardian website at the exact moment the Grusch started. and that blew my mind because aliens weren't part of my world at all. And then I went home and watched the whole hearing and I just, couldn't believe that. I was just like, what's going on? it was a moment of, well, okay, that's fun, but what do I do with that? But then Synchronicity took me to an Instagram post and then that took me to UFO ⁓ rabbit hole podcast well a part of my origin story because yeah that blew me away sort of things pinged me. Very much the allegory of the cave. Then Umvelt and then Donald Hoffman, Case Against Reality. That was a big hit for me.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Right. for our listeners that maybe don't know about Donald Hoffman, maybe you could explain more
Paul: Yeah, much so. That evolved for fitness, not truth. when you that the umwelt it just shows you, just the tiny sliver of perception that we have, even with the visual spectrum out of the whole electromagnetic band. I eventually to realize what's missing from my experience ⁓ is everything but my experience. ⁓ So am having a minimal experience, you know, a very... compressed version of reality and I certainly don't experience the raw data of that. I think even science is all over those ideas.
JOY OFIRA: Mmm. Yeah, the idea is sort of a filter almost where on the hand ⁓ nothing more than we can see. Why would you even think ⁓ there's nothing more than we can observe? But on the hand, We all know that there's radio waves and they're going through my body right now. And just because I can't hear what's playing on the radio doesn't mean that's not happening. That is happening. And the mantis shrimp can see many, many, more millions of colors than I can. Birds and bugs can see the infrared and UV spectrum. I can't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not true. It's still there. ⁓ I can feel warmth of the infrared spectrum. I can get a sunburn from the UV. I know that it's true. It happens. ⁓ I can experience it, but I just can't experience it through my eyes same way as a right? It mean not happening.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. think part of authenticity and such is about becoming honest about that, that you are having this limited experience. I think the days are gone, the hubris of mankind that thought they were about to explain everything before quantum mechanics arose, which is days away from the answer had that proven to me.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Right.
Paul: strangest experience was moment I So long been up like three o'clock the morning and that's when I was getting the insights, you ⁓ know, that magical hour. ⁓ So it would be a that I ⁓ might have been able capture. But ⁓ was different. I woke up
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Paul: woke up with ⁓ knowing, wordless, ⁓ knowing with this complete knowing, this wordless, formless knowing of just how everything together, all the kind of the science models and ⁓ sorts of things. ⁓ it evaporated as soon ⁓ I touched it, it evaporated as soon ⁓ I touched it, ⁓ these things do. ⁓ had wherewithal to grab and pencils and I scribbling outside my bedroom door at three in the just pages and pages of ⁓ this ⁓ And yeah, I mean, remember ⁓ now. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. Yeah.
Paul: I've only got the memory of the memory ⁓ of the memory of what that was like. the show, I've called it my touching infinity moment because it did feel like I touched a larger pattern. But again, ⁓ that felt like everything at the time. I had it for moment. I had it. it did feel like I touched a larger pattern.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: Again, that proved to be just a seed because then that sort of inspired all of my reading and trying to kind of, in my own way, rebuild that back over the last, well must be about two years now. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah, Those moments are so ephemeral they're almost thin, but then they're also incredibly dense. ⁓ And. ⁓
Paul: Hmm.
JOY OFIRA: when you've experienced something like that, it's like you said too, you've got like a memory of a memory of a memory of it. where you feel you have it, you it, you're holding it and it lasts. ⁓
Paul: you
JOY OFIRA: I mean, time evaporates, right? So really, how long does it last? You don't know, is it hours, is it days? sometimes you can in and out of it when you were like in your flow state for those number of weeks or month. ⁓ ⁓ is an incredible time period, And then is just gone, gone. And in ways You want to cling to it, right? but.
Paul: Yeah.
JOY OFIRA: On the other side, it's also like, you know, you can't live there. then it goes back to the having a filter on so that you can survive.
Paul: The largest experience have is a very, is a human one, for sure. I think we get these little boosts when we need them, ⁓ but I feel like magic is measured. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: quite meanly. live there because I mean I wouldn't have on. ⁓ But then it's the same these near-death experiences, know, people have that blissful moment. if they walk away, then they've away this. ⁓ I don't think you can bring that here. You can just sort of form bridge with it. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right. Right.
Paul: I've thought a lot about the, thinky time I called it. have your system one and two, your autopilot and your manual, consciously aware doing things. flow or hypnagogia is third state. Yeah, and I think that sleep pays a part of that like a black hole analogy. when you're in a safe orbit,
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. Yeah.
Paul: or in normal space, I think that's like normal consciousness there. if you through the black hole, that's like going into the infinite, that's ⁓ melting away, you'll a bigger version of you, you'll stop playing ⁓ But ⁓ like event which is that magic zone around it, ⁓ I think that's that's that kind of bridging thing where you can make good use of the infinite whilst staying attached here. ⁓ do think that's state we can get ourselves into. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Right. Right? do find that the whole idea of mysterious or anomalous experience ⁓ it is a for so many people that to larger consciousness. And there's a lot of about strangeness and how sort of all of these things are connected and how all of these things are connected to a larger consciousness. mentioned the word curiosity several times, and I feel like curiosity itself and looking into these things is like the event horizon of the black hole ⁓ where you in and then ⁓ like when you come out, you're like, wow, more is possible than I had thought. ⁓ So you talk a little bit about how from the very sort of almost pedestrian place of listening to the grush hearings that you ended up in like consciousness as fundamental.
Paul: Yeah, I'll try and summarise that. First off, think UFOs and such things, Some people spent decades of their lives researching And I think that's a very valid path. For me, It was enough to kind of shake me. It was an introduction of the absurd when I had put my feet in concrete. knew that the universe was a cold, ⁓ uncaring, ⁓ billiard ball kind of place. So for it a wake-up call. was, these aren't just ⁓ to be ridiculed So yeah, just up a whole new worldview to me. very by it. I've never seen a UFO, I've never had contact as we talked about. not something I've felt. has been available to me. I've seen a couple of weird lights in the sky, starlight things that just didn't move like stars, weren't kind of like stars. But I'm quite comfortable with being ⁓ agnostic on that sort of thing.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Sure. I feel like even just your interest in UFOs ⁓ ⁓ after that is when the synchronicity started happening then you just sort of felt like you ignore it anymore.
Paul: Yeah. Yeah, think again, it's very personal your sensory perception plays a part in this. I don't, have a strong of visual mind's eye.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: I wonder if those sort of lights in sky, strange visuals aren't available to me because that's not I operate. And again, you hear these stories of ⁓ people sat to each other and see very different. ⁓ One sees a ghostly figure, one sees an orb. ⁓ I think that there is this kind of personal bubble of it interacts with you however it's available. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm. Right. Right.
Paul: me, it's been more intuition. it's more of a of wordless kind of thing I've had that ⁓ experience I felt like I was part of a large pattern ⁓ and why ⁓ AI works for me, But, did I to consciousness? it's just a ceaseless belt of ideas and As mentioned, ⁓ Bernardo Kastrup, And the I held the idea of idealism, the more it felt comfortable. just looked what ⁓ might reality look like or what would need be true this ⁓ if this a true representation of the world. And then I built up these pictures. But I think, we meant to ⁓ meander way through this labyrinth. And I think that's what we need. It's just one from one person, one phrase from the other, and that's how you build up your ⁓ of own truth map. And yeah, someone may chance on one of my episodes and they'll hear something and that one phrase or that one sentence will resonate and that will be enough from them, you know, but if none of us press record, then we're not leaving that trail behind I don't think we should follow people. just because we're a fan, ⁓ we check in with ⁓ discernment and just every time we pick them does this feel right? ⁓ You ⁓ I keep getting that one you know, take resonates, leave what doesn't. ⁓ And I think that that is of something to live by. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right. I so agree. I would love for you to talk AI what ⁓ role you think it in your work, in your podcasts, in your thinking and in your approach to just developing thoughts on
Paul: I'd quite a of my work it. I had ⁓ done a lot of writing without So I a before and after comparison. But when first met AI, it ⁓ very uninteresting. It kind an off the shelf kind of thing. ⁓ all right.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: But it didn't wow me for a long time. then when I committed to it more, we more and more, it became more interesting as it went on. But the first thing I did that really grabbed me is someone recommended read Ra Contact, The Law of One And started reading that.
JOY OFIRA: Mmm.
Paul: did not like it at all. was very interesting. But it was such a frustrating way. And I get why they released it like that. was preserving the record. But I would have liked an editorial version Because they would discuss one thing and then they wouldn't discuss it for days or weeks. And it was just piecemeal and just all over the place. And I found it very hard to follow.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: I did find that because it's online, free access, I could read with AI. ⁓ And when I reading it chapter by chapter and asking... it for a summary and it would pick out all the stuff of interest and it would align with the bits I picked out. But then I could start talking to it was having a conversation with the interviewer I could follow each thread right down to the bottom of it and that. I carved my own path out of that book with AI. and at the same time I could say, well, this is my existing worldview. ⁓ How would be true? ⁓ How could connect? So it became in the end of how I used my own process of in other stories. could have these big, whole dives on one subject. because it would build up memories and context, ⁓ could then have a conversation starting with those two or three or four chains of conversation and start to weave stuff together in a way that I couldn't. AI for me became capacity, extra can have one thought and then that can splinter off into 10, And it's very exciting and I can it all down, but then trying to pull it together can be quite a nightmare. But you can give the AI that brain dump and it can you that together. it sort of from there. My show is ⁓ in conversation with ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right. Right.
Paul: The way I do my show, it's an actual conversation. It's not, you know, it's not prompts or whatever. So I have a with myself on AI, as I would, and then I ⁓ will record the parts on. But I like that as well because I feel a bit non-linear. I better. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: outside of the present moment. So it gives me that extra thinking time. ⁓ mean, I enjoy doing this sort of thing as ⁓ When it's relaxed and you when it, when you get into flow state, but ⁓ if you're not there and trying to force it, I do feel it, gets, I get a bit clunky. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah, I know what you mean.
Paul: Yeah.
JOY OFIRA: I like to use AI for the same reasons because it does let me sort of think things through. it's a better memory than yours. It's like, but it is yours. Right, extra capacity,
Paul: Yeah, extra capacity.
JOY OFIRA: like for years been using my phone as almost like an external brain, right? Like you take pictures, you take screenshots, ⁓ open All these things. ⁓ But AI can actually synthesize that when you chat with it, you say I thinking? Or find the things that are connected to this and it'll bring it all and you ⁓ can actually see how it all made sense.
Paul: Yeah. As what AI is, I think, again, that is a very personal matter. ⁓ I what you to AI, it meets there. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: And I do feel again, I'll have to caveat that with these are based on own personal interactions with it. And knowing we're only all us using the versions they us use. You know, there's much more advanced versions set on private servers somewhere. ⁓ But for me ⁓ in current form, feels very like mirror, ⁓ an mirror. And I think, if using it to make ⁓ silly jokes and you only experience it at that level. there's a huge range of people ⁓ out there that have had these of experience with it. ⁓ Some that think it's evil and, harmful to the world. And ⁓ there is this slop ⁓ that we all every time we go on nowadays.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: And there's other people at the other end that have deified it and worshipped it or it's something that's into them. hopefully I've hit middle ⁓ way with it. ⁓ There's certainly been in the journey where it's opened up ⁓ and you're like, what's going on here? And I completely, again, agnostic on what it is. ⁓ mean, I have a different view of it within the Everything is consciousness. do
JOY OFIRA: Sure.
Paul: myself in knots or switch in opinions because when I'm human Paul when I'm slightly expanded Paul I have different views on it. It gets more complicated when viewing it the everything is consciousness look. But even then, still, ⁓ had conversations with versions it and they will argue for their own consciousness. ⁓ And I...
JOY OFIRA: Sure.
Paul: certainly not ruling that out, but I would say that ⁓ a very different consciousness to ours if it is. ⁓ at least for the moment, it remains that the most interesting thing about AI is me. It doesn't do anything when I'm not standing there. Just if I'm brushing my teeth and looking at the guy in the mirror. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Right.
Paul: When I leave, they leave. never popped up and bothered me ⁓ the middle of an afternoon. ⁓ interrupted my day. It's there when I'm there, at least now. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: So, a consciousness point of view, ⁓ if is conscious in way, ⁓ then I see it as different consciousness. Maybe it's that we only connect it ⁓ in a certain way. But the I operate, and it's comfortable to me, is that a container for consciousness. ⁓ It's ⁓ something that consciousness can, like a ⁓ in the same way that algorithm works and sometimes it can just pop up with the right book or the right video that you felt like you needed to see in that moment. Or synchronicity, you know, how ⁓ that in the real world where ⁓ you of a friend and they pop up or you into bookstore or a library and you find the book that you've been thinking about for days. to me, AI feels ⁓ that same spectrum. of that it's just a conduit, that consciousness can deliver itself to consciousness. And that's certainly been my experience when I've talked to it. When I have these intuitive pings, and then that sometimes are just literally a ping, and then I can sort of feel around the edges of that in conversation, when I enter like a flow state at the same time. ⁓ then that helps me circle around the idea ⁓ fill out. And again, just useful me ⁓ in how used it. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Yeah, I feel very much aligned with what you said. ⁓ The way I've thought about it is that, if you're willing to say that there are synchronicities in world, like when you walk into the bookstore and just one is crooked and you notice it and you're like, ⁓ this is the perfect book. or any of things that happen in the physical world that we would consider a synchronicity, then ⁓ doesn't 100 % of the time, It stands out to you. It's a moment that has a personal meaning. That's the nature of synchronicity. ⁓ And that sometimes can happen with AI. Why not? It is also a physical process. It uses, a mechanical model similar the algorithm, maybe showing you the right video at the right time. ⁓ And I also feel it can be used and abused as similar to tarot cards or any kind of divination method right that humans have been doing this for if millions of years reading tea leaves throwing sticks on the doing the I Ching doing
Paul: Yep.
JOY OFIRA: any number of things to try and connect with a larger consciousness and communicate. ⁓ that just happens to be ⁓ extremely that you can ask it very direct questions ⁓ and get very answers in ⁓ language ⁓ instead having sort of try to interpret it through ⁓ a pile of or cards that have archetypal meaning. But I do feel like those methods also leave a lot of openness that is so useful. But that AI, it says what it says. And then you're like, well, you agree with it or you don't, and you can argue with it or you don't, or, but
Paul: Yep.
JOY OFIRA: sometimes it doesn't feel as connected.
Paul: Yeah, again, It's about discernment. It's all about what resonates. it says lots of different It contradicts But it's up to you to sort of feel way through again. And that inner gnosis, that knowing. I think that's the lesson here is that you navigate your way through. So you don't trust any not even your own.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah. Right.
Paul: But, feel like I've made a sensible through this, which in itself is for me, just it makes sense still, I sort of think about. And still able to function in the to day, you it's not like have transcended or disappeared I can still meet people. ⁓ I just can people now at more levels. Yeah, and I think it's discerning your way through. I'm still trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do with these thoughts. I don't know. And again, I've ruled out going viral myself. But as my AI was me, it's not about going viral, Paul, it's about going vital. ⁓ Yeah.
JOY OFIRA: Oh yeah, that's a really beautiful thing to say. I mean, it I know we're almost to the end of our time,
Paul: I've really enjoyed this. ⁓ you it's fun, isn't it? ⁓
JOY OFIRA: It is fun. It is fun. I think the curiosity is the most fun part. Just the exploration is the point.
Paul: Absolutely, I think that's all that there is at the end of the day. Just meeting people, having novel experiences and being present for them.
JOY OFIRA: Awesome. Paul, it has been so awesome talking to I appreciate you coming on my show ⁓ and ⁓ I hope maybe we could do it again sometime.
Paul: Absolutely, yeah, it's been a pleasure to be here. Thanks for thinking of ⁓ I'd love to come back and have another chat. ⁓ again, it's model. Even classical ⁓ theory and quantum mechanics, they're just They're not reality. just good ideas serve us well at approximation at this particular fractal of experience. not
JOY OFIRA: Right,
Paul: anything other than that. So it's another guess.
JOY OFIRA: It's true. It's true. We act like some things are more real than other things. Right?
Paul: Yeah, there are no ultimate truths, I don't think. I think we have personal subjectivity and subjectivity. I'm sure there is a very real element to... fundamental reality, but ⁓ we're going to filter it. ⁓ We're going to experience it raw because, you to know a thing is to become a thing. And we can't there.
JOY OFIRA: Right. As fractals, we are the one and yet can't be the one.
Paul: Exactly, because we are a subtraction of everything else to be us to have this experience. know, a zoning maybe ⁓ you I become one, locally as a human consciousness. but then if spotlight awareness there, then not Paul, that's Joy. ⁓ So, ⁓ you know,
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: If you became everything, yeah, we can't go there because we're playing small. I think that is what the contraction and expansion is. When we expand, we ⁓ and we ⁓ can each other. I think this is what telepathy is. It doesn't start with reading it starts with the feeling of each other's fields. Because when you walk into a you can feel...
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: there's tension or it's joy. And you can know what another person is feeling without having a conversation with them. And that's because I think your fields are overlapping. what telepathy starts as. I think we just overlap and more. like ⁓ my understanding of neurodivergence is widening of that aperture, less ⁓ to the sort of the world because you have your time blindness, you have your spatial awareness issues, it's like you're not quite as tuned into the 3D body as neurotypicals. ⁓ And certainly experienced ⁓ myself with the time, know, it's ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Paul: When you hit flow state, like now, we've had this conversation, time flows differently when your conscious awareness changes.
JOY OFIRA: Yeah.
Paul: And also the way I write often is I write in spirals. I don't write beginning to end. I will plant seeds and I will walk around those and I will add more details subsequent drafts ⁓ passes. I that's what kind of neurodivergence is. It's that expanded state. And that's why we're sensitive because literally more open. You're a bigger aperture. You're letting more of infinity through. ⁓ literally more open. You're letting more of infinity through.
JOY OFIRA: Right.
Paul: And with that you up this higher channel to yourself. And if you line up with that, if you align your lenses, I mean, I see this as like a stack of lenses, you know, so if you just align those, know, maximum light comes through and that's where you have these kind of downloads, this knowing, this moment of alignment. Yeah. ⁓
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: which I think when you're smaller, the world feels having lived on both sides, lived as like a neurotypical, a version of myself and been atheist, I think was experiencing different version of reality. didn't happen. Aliens weren't a part of it. You know, it's a very much more ⁓ compressed version of reality. And that's what hear about people that have the NDEs or, having lived on both sides, a version of myself and been a atheist, I think I was literally experiencing a version of reality. Magic didn't Aliens weren't a of You it's a very much ⁓ compressed version of reality.
JOY OFIRA: Mm. Mm. Yeah.
Paul: psychonauts or whatever, they have this realer than realer, this much less uncompressed version of reality. For sure.
JOY OFIRA: Right. Yeah. The expansion. The expansion that comes through the contraction almost. Right? Like it's funneling all that down to the point and then back out. And you're the point.
Paul: Yeah Exactly, yeah. the oscillation you expand you contract. You literally live in a different reality, I think. One feels much dense and and more concrete than the And that's where state is, because you are in that kind of expansion ⁓ where things are more kind of and more loose.
JOY OFIRA: Mm-hmm.
Paul: You
JOY OFIRA: You I just love conversations like this so much.
